Ullar armies

[Omega]

I wanted to make a 400 and 500 point Ullar army that could do come damage. Many 'scapers I know believe Ullar to have the worst troops, I also believe this, but I also think that with the right combination of Ullar figures we could make a pretty dangerous army.
My thoughts for the 400 point army is this...
Charos 210
Syvarris 100
Saylind 80
total = 390
First charge with your powerful dragon to distract and destroy. Next summon Syvarris up to high ground with Saylind. Snipe with your elf and take out others with your powerful dragon. If Charos dies then fly Saylind down to distract people so Syvarris can finish off their army.
For a 500 point Ullar army I was thinking about adding Acolarh 110 to the previous army, or adding the Aubrien Archers and the Venoc vipers. I believe the second choice is better because there are not many elves for Acolarh to help, but he could still help movement. What do you think about my 400 point army, do you think it could do any damage? And who should I add to make a powerful Ullar 500 point army? Thanks.

[feekonea]

I love Ullar and the vipers are my favorite units to use in Heroscape. In my 400 point army, Ive done the Venoc Walord, and 7 squads of vipers. Thats 400 points right there. I leave the VW back and just use him for the frenzy help and move bonus. Now all of my figs have 9 move, and they can easily contest with range even though they are melee, and the best part about it is, you have 21 of these figures, so it doesnt matter if one dies.



units to stay away from when running this army: Major Q9 (just like any army :D) and the AE. Their specials will tear apart the vipers 0 defense.

[Draconious]

Elite Onyx Vipers.. are a must ;) These basicly took out my charos once in their first turm (all but 2 hits) since they get to keep rolling for more turns... which allows them to move across the board and attack right off, if they are lucky rollers.

[feekonea]

2 aubrien archers.......140
2 venoc vipers............80
Venoc Warlod............120
Dead Eye Dan............60
Elite Onyx Vipers........100

500 points, 20 starting spaces?

[Stealth Dodge]

If you go for a viper army just pray your opponent doesn't have DW8k :P

[Omega]

Well, I dont' have any doubles of anybody except master set figures, which doesn't really help considering they are all unique. I didn't have the money to buy multiple sets, its been hard for me to keep up with just one of every set. So is there any Ullar armies that don't contain multiples of figures. Also, would somebody comment on the army i posted above, I tested it out and it destroyed a 400 point army that contained...
Brunak 110
Raelin 80
Nakita Agents 120
Gorillanators 90.
But thanks for your posts, I am thinking of picking up more sets of vipers, I have some extra money. That Venoc Warlord and 7x vipers sounds deadly.

[feekonea]

oh ya its crazy. its got a perfect tourny record of 2-0. Its just a risk because your opponent could take a few figs thatll completely screw you (and thank you to stealh dodge for adding that one in there.)

[Snotwalker 8000]

Don't discount the elf-theme armies either!

2x A. Archers 140
2x WoA 100
Syv 100
Theracus 40

380 pt army.

Throw in Acolarh to bring it to a 500pt army.

I've had a LOT of fun with elf-armies. Frenzy, range, solid melee fighters, etc... all good.

[gamjuven]

Mittens
venocs x4
aubriens x3

490

awesome army, so much frenzy awesomeness. devestating

[Billtog]

I'm a bit strapped for money as well, and I don't have one of every expansion yet. I did, however, buy a second set of Aubrien Archers. It makes a huge difference when you have two squads instead of one. I advise you to go buy another pack. Plus, then you'll have more Gladiatrons to go with your Blastatrons.

[playa1]

I'm a bit strapped for money as well, and I don't have one of every expansion yet. I did, however, buy a second set of Aubrien Archers. It makes a huge difference when you have two squads instead of one. I advise you to go buy another pack.
Yes, because then there's more to kill. I'm sorry, but I've almost never had my archers stand up well. The only time they work is when they have decent height advantage. You almost never get the frenzy and even if you do get a few, they are never enough. The elves really need something to boost their attack or def. consistently (like the orcs do). It is the only way to make them competitive.
That being said, I still love Ullar armies because they look so cool, and I always like being the underdog. When you can make an elf army work, it is a lot of fun to play.
Incidentally, the WoA were a great addition to the Elves. I never play an elf army without them. They are a saving grace that do very well against swarming orcs, Krug, Drones, Minions, Samauri, etc. They are an excellent squad.

[playa1]

I wanted to make a 400 and 500 point Ullar army that could do come damage. Many 'scapers I know believe Ullar to have the worst troops, I also believe this, but I also think that with the right combination of Ullar figures we could make a pretty dangerous army.
My thoughts for the 400 point army is this...
Charos 210
Syvarris 100
Saylind 80
total = 390

First charge with your powerful dragon to distract and destroy. Next summon Syvarris up to high ground with Saylind. Snipe with your elf and take out others with your powerful dragon. If Charos dies then fly Saylind down to distract people so Syvarris can finish off their army.
For a 500 point Ullar army I was thinking about adding Acolarh 110 to the previous army, or adding the Aubrien Archers and the Venoc vipers. I believe the second choice is better because there are not many elves for Acolarh to help, but he could still help movement. What do you think about my 400 point army, do you think it could do any damage? And who should I add to make a powerful Ullar 500 point army? Thanks.

I think this army has a lot of disadvantages. Don't get me wrong, Charos is a powerful enemy in any army under any conditions. He is really a well-rounded character (though expensive). This army has no real use for Saylind who works well with slow armies or surprise attacks (Q9). Charos flies and has no need for Saylind's help, especially once he reaches melee range. Syvarris can be summoned to height (if the board allows it) but after that, Saylind is useless. Syvarris' low def and average life will not stand up to any decent assault and Saylind will not get the chance to summon him to safety. You have to have some common squads to make any Ullar army compeititve. You also need multiple commons to take advantage. The best Ullar armies have been Vipers, their frenzy ability is much more effective because they have such great movement advantages. They can literally frenzy once and get more attacks, while the archers are lucky if they can frenzy into some initial position. Likewise, the elves lack bonding, which some of the Vipers have. I've seen Vipers get a couple of lucky frenzy rolls in a row and take out half a samauri army before it got a chance to move. I've also seen elves get a couple of lucky rolls and maybe take out Mimring with a little luck. They just are not as effective because they have to use their frenzy to move into position and rarely get to take advantage of multiple attacks before several of them are killed.
I think a Charos - Viper army would be best:
Charos 210
Mittens 120
little vipers x 2 80
Big vipers 65
Total points 485
(for a 400 point, you could drop mittens and take another little viper squad)
Here, you have no range, but the vipers don't really need it, since their movement is so good. After you lose your little vipers (they'll go down quickly but they should do some damage -- a lot of damage if you are lucky) then move in Mittens and Big Vipers and try to take out the ranged units. Once range is all gone, Charos is nearly unstoppable.
I've played Charos with a bunch of little vipers before, and it looks cool because it looks like a dragon with a bunch of little hungry hatchlings.

[Omega]

Honestly I didn't really like the army I made before, because I use other armies that are way better, but I had no armies with just all Ullar, I have all Einar, Vydar, Utgar, and Jandar armies, but no Ullar, and just wanted some ideas and comments on the one I quickly threw together. I completely agree with you playa1 on some of your comments, and that viper armys would be awesome if I had enough vipers to use it. But, I don't think I will buy any more vipers just because I have other armies that work for me as of now. Thanks for all the posts everyone, and if you guys want to keep comparing Ullar armies, go ahead.

[Omega]

Honestly I didn't really like the army I made before, because I use other armies that are way better, but I had no armies with just all Ullar, I have all Einar, Vydar, Utgar, and Jandar armies, but no Ullar, and just wanted some ideas and comments on the one I quickly threw together. I completely agree with you playa1 on some of your comments, and that viper armys would be awesome if I had enough vipers to use it. But, I don't think I will buy any more vipers just because I have other armies that work for me as of now. Thanks for all the posts everyone, and if you guys want to keep comparing Ullar armies, go ahead.

[Kahrma]

I think a Charos - Viper army would be best:
Charos 210
Mittens 120
little vipers x 2 80
Big vipers 65
Total points 485
(for a 400 point, you could drop mittens and take another little viper squad)
Here, you have no range, but the vipers don't really need it, since their movement is so good. After you lose your little vipers (they'll go down quickly but they should do some damage -- a lot of damage if you are lucky) then move in Mittens and Big Vipers and try to take out the ranged units. Once range is all gone, Charos is nearly unstoppable.
I've played Charos with a bunch of little vipers before, and it looks cool because it looks like a dragon with a bunch of little hungry hatchlings.

While I too like to incorporate bonding in my armies, I think you'd be better served by dropping the Armocs and adding two more squads of Venocs. That would also use up a couple of those pts you've got sitting on the table!

Charos: 210
Venoc Warlord: 120
Venoc Vipers x4: 160

Total: 490

[playa1]

I'm not sure Kahrma (by the way, your avatar is awesome!), I think the Armocs are worth their weight. Bonding aside, they have decent stats and superior movement. Both bonding and movement are underrated by many theoryscapers! They can win games!

[Kahrma]

Here's my reasoning behind leaving out the Armocs. This is all of course simply my :twocents:, but I thought I should further explain my stand.

The Armocs do have decent stats, but I'd hesitate to bring just one squad. Sure, with bonding you will get to move Mittens as well, but with only 3 figures on the board, your chances of losing all of them (and thus any unused turn markers) in any given round seems too great - especially if their numbers are already reduced. I like to keep turn marker placement as simple as possible.

Taking 2 squads of Armocs in addition to Mittens and Charos only leaves 40 points out of a 500 point army - room for only ONE squad of Venocs.

The Armocs have 2 other key disadvantages:

1. They are not scouts, and therefore do not gain a +2 movement bonus from Mittens. This is Mittens's most valuable contribution, IMHO. You don't have to roll the D20 to get the bonus, and it can mean the difference between getting to the enemy, getting height, or not. Yeah, the Armocs are already fast at M7, but with Mittens around the Venocs are blazing along at M9.

2. They do not frenzy, and therefore don't get the +1 frenzy bonus from Mittens. While only a 5% boost (about as likely to help your roll as Ne Gok Sa is to mindshackle) it's still 3 more figures that aren't benefiting.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment re: the avatar! If only I could take credit for it - I stole it from a another forum, though I can't recall when or where. Goes well with the screen name ;)

[Snotwalker 8000]

I'm not sure Kahrma (by the way, your avatar is awesome!), I think the Armocs are worth their weight. Bonding aside, they have decent stats and superior movement. Both bonding and movement are underrated by many theoryscapers! They can win games!

I agree. If you have Mittens in your army, he practically cries out for at least one squad of bonding Armoc "bodyguards". They add alot of "oomph" to his late-game assault.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Here's my reasoning behind leaving out the Armocs. This is all of course simply my :twocents:, but I thought I should further explain my stand.

The Armocs do have decent stats, but I'd hesitate to bring just one squad. Sure, with bonding you will get to move Mittens as well, but with only 3 figures on the board, your chances of losing all of them (and thus any unused turn markers) in any given round seems too great - especially if their numbers are already reduced. I like to keep turn marker placement as simple as possible.

Taking 2 squads of Armocs in addition to Mittens and Charos only leaves 40 points out of a 500 point army - room for only ONE squad of Venocs.

The Armocs have 2 other key disadvantages:

1. They are not scouts, and therefore do not gain a +2 movement bonus from Mittens. This is Mittens's most valuable contribution, IMHO. You don't have to roll the D20 to get the bonus, and it can mean the difference between getting to the enemy, getting height, or not. Yeah, the Armocs are already fast at M7, but with Mittens around the Venocs are blazing along at M9.

2. They do not frenzy, and therefore don't get the +1 frenzy bonus from Mittens. While only a 5% boost (about as likely to help your roll as Ne Gok Sa is to mindshackle) it's still 3 more figures that aren't benefiting.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment re: the avatar! If only I could take credit for it - I stole it from a another forum, though I can't recall when or where. Goes well with the screen name ;)

I love the Armocs. I haven't thought of taking Charos in an Ullar/Vipers-predominate army. I'd rather have some range. But even then, Armocs throw everything loopy in the points and numbers of common allowed.

As for disadvantages?
1. They shouldn't be scouts. They're protectors. They move at the same rate as VW and add to the immense impact of his attack. I see it a bit as a reverese Marcus and Legos. Marcus has the lower attack and those Legos around him have the meaty attack (attack enhancement).
With the VW/AV combo you've got the big punch going first - and he can usually get some sort of height for an attack of 5. Then the protectors move in for the clean up.
They're not supposed to be like the Venoc shock troopers. 7 movement is not bad at all and the bonding gets the Warlord moving earlier in the battle! I've had Venoc armies where the scouts move out and I'm primarily using Venocs while I still have them on the field. But there's the Warlord in the backfield...waiting, unactivated.
Now, VW can be activated and there's a possibility of four separate attacks with a potential height factor bonus to attain a whopping 17 attack dice in a turn!!! I'm so there. No Frenzy or movement 9 needed.

2. Again, they shouldn't Frenzy. They're to stick with VW and finish off whatever damage he's inflicted. It's such a hefty, quick, unheeded (by water) melee combo.

The only disadvantage I encounter with the AV (and it's more a checks and balancing act) is trying to get 2 squads of AV while keeping a hefty set of Aubriens and Venocs in the army line-up of 400-450 points (the point range I usually play). I'd love to get some EOV in the army, but I think that's adding insult to injury to the oppposing army. :lol:

I agree, one squad of Armocs isn't worth the risk and unless in a desperate situation, I don't like to keep one bonding figure back, hidden behind a ruin in order to keep the bonding bonus. 2 Squads of Armocs is essential.


I've been wondering what to do with a snakes army and the Deathreavers as opponents. The Reavers can make a mess of a player's intent to get across the board fast and into the enemy's starting zone.
I was thinking about if a Venoc Viper gets tied up with a Reaver (as a result of a Scatter). If that engaged Viper has to get somewhere important - a priority hitlist enemy hero - It's almost worth disengaging with a Viper in order to attain that goal.
I don't think the same cold be said for any other unit that wold engage a Venoc, right? If it's any other unit, it's probably better for that Venoc to remain engaged and attack that figure (well, unless Counterstrike's a factor).
With the Reavers, you don't want to attack without some kind of Special Attack. I believe it could be a worthwhile, even essential strategy to disengage a Venoc from a Reaver. Am I missing something in this reasoning?


Nostalgia time
here's the Viper Lady(identity cropped to protect the frenzied) in one of the Mass. tournaments. I remember seeing these images and being in awe of the massive amounts of Vipers. I had only 1 squad at the time and wanted a ton more. Wave 1 was difficult to find. At one point I even considered making my own crude Venocs with piper cleaners and green paint (don't laugh - Wave 1 was hovering around $25+ a booster on eBay). Thank gosh I eventually acquired my 7 sets. :lol:
Whatever became of her? Is she still around? I don't recall her presence all that much on HS.net. I wonder if she still plays and if she fields Armocs. (Note Soulrazor Canyon on the right!)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/jonan_jello/VV1.jpghttp://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/jonan_jello/VV2.jpg

[Aldin]

HEH,

Rats vs. Snakes is an interesting problem. I think the answer depends a lot on where your opponents order markers are, what the terrain is, and how badly you need that snake to do something else. In playing with rats my rule of thumb has become not to attack them with a normal attack unless you have four dice to throw AND you can deal with the consequences of scatter. So with height and without being in danger of a glyph-grab or some other horrible four move fate I probably would make the attack. On the other hand, if there was a glyph in range for the snake and an order marker still waiting on the rat... I'd likely take the disengage strike on the theory I'd probably be taking a 50/50 shot anyway and at least this might gain me something for my troubles.

~Aldin, Willard

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

HEH,

Rats vs. Snakes is an interesting problem. I think the answer depends a lot on where your opponents order markers are, what the terrain is, and how badly you need that snake to do something else. In playing with rats my rule of thumb has become not to attack them with a normal attack unless you have four dice to throw AND you can deal with the consequences of scatter. So with height and without being in danger of a glyph-grab or some other horrible four move fate I probably would make the attack. On the other hand, if there was a glyph in range for the snake and an order marker still waiting on the rat... I'd likely take the disengage strike on the theory I'd probably be taking a 50/50 shot anyway and at least this might gain me something for my troubles.

~Aldin, Willard

Definitely depends on the situation. It's that darned Scatter and being tied up again with another Reaver that gives me the hopeless-feeling willies. My Wulsinu suffered a similar fate in a recent game on a small layout.
I couldn't get anywhere with Reavers scattering or simply disengaging from my other two Marrden Hounds who had yet to attack.



~Aldin, Willard
rofl

[T-bomb]

The problem with vipers staying tied up with the rats is if they have another order marker on them, they could wipe out your 0 defense vipers with their measly 1 attack :(

[iceman3317]

This could help a little.

Sonlen 160
Syvarris 100
Elite Onyx Vipers 100
Gwyn 20
total:380

Elite Onyx Vipers 100
Armoc Vipers 65
Syvarris 100
Gwyn 20
Aubrien Archers 70
Saylind 80
Deadeye Dan 60
total:495

[Cleon]

Here's one that I've played:

Win-A-Wave (GenCon 07'):
Venoc Warlord 120pt.
Armocs x2 130pt.
Venocs 40pt.
Theracus 40pt.
Aubrien Archers 70pt.
+_________________
Total = 400pt., it work fairly well, won some and lost some.

[IAmBatman]

For 500 points, my all-Ullar army would always start with a core of at least 2 Aubrien Archers. Here's why:

My basic competitive army theory is that you should almost always base an army around either:

Option 1: At least two units of a ranged common squad (4th Mass Valiant armies are a typical example of this, but there are plenty of ranged common squads to choose from).

Option 2: At least two unique units that offer multiple ranged attacks (ex: Q9 and the Krav, or Nilfheim and the Nakitas).

Ullar doesn't have access to enough quality uniques with multiple ranged attacks to go that route, so you've got to go with the multiple ranged commons. Ullar offers exactly one of those. You guessed it: Aubrien Archers.

So, take two sets of Aubrien Archers. That's 140 points - leaving you 360 to work with to complement them.

Aubrien Archers rely on their frenzying ability to keep them on par with other powerful ranged commons such as the 4th Mass. The best Ullar Cheerleader you can get for an all Ullar army, therefore, is the Venoc Warlord.

I also believe in building competitive armies that unless you have heaps and heaps of Dominant ranged figures, you should back up your ranged commons with powerful melee figures - the advantage going to melee commons that bond due to the numbers it will allow you to move and attack with.

This moves our core to this:
Aubrien Archers x2 140
Armoc Vipers x2 130
Venoc Warlord 120

That's 390 points - meaning you're left with 110, which is pretty hard to fill in an all Ullar army. The way I see it, you've got four options that make sense at this point:

1) Syvarris - longer range complements the Aubriens and forces opponents to come to you. His double attack and range make him both a nice early sniper and end game figure.

2) The EoV. Not everybody has them, but they're a pretty nice anti-range squad and benefit from frenzy as well.

3) The Venoc Vipers x2 + Kyntella Gwyn. Venocs are some of the better shock troops in the game and definitely fun to play. Get lucky with frenzy and you can do a lot of damage early on. They're kind of frail, though, and if they don't have any luck with the D20, you won't earn your points back against good opponents with strong armies. Gwyn is a throw in the help the defense of the Aubriens, even if she is a bit awkward to keep up with them.

4) A third squad of Aubrien Archers and Theracus.

Of these, I'd select option four, for a few reasons.
First, it allows you to maximize all the points - the other options were all 100 points, and this one is the full 110. Second, I believe it makes things easier on an Order Marker level with you only really needing to use 2 cards, except for very situationally when you want to use Theracus to bring an Aubrien to height or to engage an enemy to hold him in place. Finally, if you're going to build your army around a common, ranged squad, you want to make sure you have the numbers to do it. Nine Aubrien Archers is much, much better than six and gives you a lot more survivability and a lot more chances to frenzy with them.

[Aldin]

IAmBatman,

Nicely written and solid reasoning. I do wonder why you excluded the units that will be available in three days. Even given the idea of keeping to exisiting units, one Unique possiblity for Option 2 would be Sonlen/Syvarris. That makes Kyntela Gwyn the best cheerleader - unless you want to pick Acolarh for an extra 90 points. S+S+G=290 points leaving that magic number... 210 remaining. I see three options here:
1) Charos: if you think you might face a lot of normal attack melee units
2) 3xAubrien Archers: could work, but weak defensively
3) 2xWarriors of Ashra + Acolarh: Between Acolarh and Kyntela Gwyn the WoA can make an excellent screen for the more powerful Syvarris and Sonlen.

I probably like Option 3 the best leaving:
Sonlen 160
Syvarris 110
Acolarh 110
Kyntela Gwyn 20
2xWarriors of Ashra 100

It'll take a couple of OMs to get Acolarh and KG set up, but from there Syvarris can do the long range damage and Sonlen can provide the more local pain.

I like your process, IAmBatman :up:

~Aldin, thinking Green