Halls of Valhalla - Old Discussion Thread

[reapersaurus]

Wow! I have ret-con 1st post - whee! :)

Well, this is the HSers Halls of Valhalla discussion thread (3rd incarnation of the Halls) - in it, custom unit afficionados nominate and discuss note-worthy customs efforts for possible induction into the Best Of thread. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=907)

If you have been following HS custom efforts for awhile, and think that a effort (card, rule, whatever) is worthy of being featured in a thread who's purpose is to spotlight the best customs this community has to offer, than go ahead and nominate the effort and make your case.

Nomination guidelines:
* The effort should do something noteworthy that makes it special. This could be a new ability, a new card template/layout, a new perspective, or combination of things that makes it better than a normal/average custom effort.
* Support your nomination. Don't just add it as a guess. You should know why you think it deserves a place in the Halls. Get that reason or reasons across to the people reading and discussing the unit. Don't make us do you work for you. Don't expect a lot of discussion if it (in the eyes of the judges) a sub-standard effort.
* Don't nominate your own effort.
Similarly, try to keep nepotism to a minimum - i.e., don't just nominate your friend's effort because he's your 'bud'.
* Don't go after the judges for their opinions about the efforts.
We have been giving fan-level analysis of customs for quite awhile now and we try our best to stay objective and judge the efforts on their own merits. Give the judges the benefit and respect of objectivity their judging efforts have earned.

So with those in mind, discuss away, customs fans!
Let's highlight some of those great customs works by some committed and passionate HS fans! Let's give credit where it's due, and share the appreciation of Heroscape, so that even the casual customs fan can go to one central area and sample some of the best that've been created (that rival the official units and better them in many opinions).

[Fallen Templar]

Alright lets get the Halls back up and running. Do we need judges still I'll be happy to volunteer

[Karkadinn]

The current judges we have should be more than enough, provided they all make it over to this site.
So, who wants to be the one to transfer the actual Halls over? Anyone? ;)

[Fallen Templar]

The current judges we have should be more than enough, provided they all make it over to this site.
So, who wants to be the one to transfer the actual Halls over? Anyone? ;) I'll get on it

[Fallen Templar]

I've uploaded The old inductees. What were the recently added units :?: Are we able to stickie this and the display thread.

[SyvarrisX]

I don't think I ever posted in the Halls, but I love looking at the cards there. I will be glad to have it back.

-Syv

[Porter235]

OK, if I am going to recreate the units in the Halls, I will need to know more about a couple of the figures, namely the size of the bases for all of the figures (I'm looking at Talos, Echelon, and Azuk Sharptooth and assume that these figures are not single hex figures, but that the rest of them all) I also don't know if Talos will actually work with any level of ease within VVV but will give it a look once I know how big it is.

[truth]

OK, if I am going to recreate the units in the Halls, I will need to know more about a couple of the figures, namely the size of the bases for all of the figures (I'm looking at Talos, Echelon, and Azuk Sharptooth and assume that these figures are not single hex figures, but that the rest of them all) I also don't know if Talos will actually work with any level of ease within VVV but will give it a look once I know how big it is.

Echelon is double Azuk too. Talso was on two diffrent hexes but his legs straddled a third :P Not sure how you would do that. :)

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

OK, if I am going to recreate the units in the Halls, I will need to know more about a couple of the figures, namely the size of the bases for all of the figures (I'm looking at Talos, Echelon, and Azuk Sharptooth and assume that these figures are not single hex figures, but that the rest of them all) I also don't know if Talos will actually work with any level of ease within VVV but will give it a look once I know how big it is.

Echelon is double Azuk too. Talso was on two diffrent hexes but his legs straddled a third :P Not sure how you would do that. :)

Talos 8" was comfy on 2 spaces.

Talos 12" takes 3 spaces. One empty in the middle. Talos 12" is supreme in my opinion. He's just that much bigger. I did the old boiling techinque and was able to close the gap. Talos 12" can be successfully glued to a 2-space HS base with the boil method!

[Doc_Savage]

Glad to see my Bodvär in the Halls again.

Who are the Judges here? I think that should be clarified as should the process. Here I go stirring up trouble....

I think that the community should post nominees to a nomination thread. The judges give a yes or no. (I'm not even sure that they shouldn't do this with PMs.)

I think that there is a fine line in how much discussion there should be in the nomination thread about percieved problems with the card. The Judges should say (yes or no), (yes, with minor fixes), or (no, not even with minor fixes)

I think at HQ the discussions got out of hand...

I think that Army Cards from any site are fair game...

I will look for cards to nominate...

[Karkadinn]

I think at HQ the discussions got out of hand...

Can you clarify this? I personally don't see what's wrong with the way things were done back in HQ.

[ArchonShiva]

Considering this is a new site, shouldn't the old figures get a quick re-check before induction? I feel some things that were acceptable at the time might seem annoying by now, especially in lighht of new published units...

I mostly note the Kami Presence power affecting Akikawa herself, the wording on Talos' Bronze Body, and typos in Azuk's powers, but there might be others.

Note that the picture of Talos on the HS board is almost a requirement for understanding why he's so obviously a well-deserved first inductee.

[Fallen Templar]

Considering this is a new site, shouldn't the old figures get a quick re-check before induction? I feel some things that were acceptable at the time might seem annoying by now, especially in lighht of new published units...

I mostly note the Kami Presence power affecting Akikawa herself, the wording on Talos' Bronze Body, and typos in Azuk's powers, but there might be others.

Note that the picture of Talos on the HS board is almost a requirement for understanding why he's so obviously a well-deserved first inductee. I really don't think so the judging process was pretty scrupulus then as it is now. Also on another note i've uploaded all the inductees. Will this and the Viewing Thread be stikied like on Hq.

[Fallen Templar]

Considering this is a new site, shouldn't the old figures get a quick re-check before induction? I feel some things that were acceptable at the time might seem annoying by now, especially in lighht of new published units...

I mostly note the Kami Presence power affecting Akikawa herself, the wording on Talos' Bronze Body, and typos in Azuk's powers, but there might be others.

Note that the picture of Talos on the HS board is almost a requirement for understanding why he's so obviously a well-deserved first inductee.

True going to add size pics

[Agent Minivann]

OK, if I am going to recreate the units in the Halls, I will need to know more about a couple of the figures, namely the size of the bases for all of the figures (I'm looking at Talos, Echelon, and Azuk Sharptooth and assume that these figures are not single hex figures, but that the rest of them all) I also don't know if Talos will actually work with any level of ease within VVV but will give it a look once I know how big it is.

Echelon is double Azuk too. Talso was on two diffrent hexes but his legs straddled a third :P Not sure how you would do that. :)

Talos 8" was comfy on 2 spaces.

Talos 12" takes 3 spaces. One empty in the middle. Talos 12" is supreme in my opinion. He's just that much bigger. I did the old boiling techinque and was able to close the gap. Talos 12" can be successfully glued to a 2-space HS base with the boil method!
That's just wrong to make a 12" fig fit onto a 2 space base. Wrong on so many levels.

[Fallen Templar]

OK, if I am going to recreate the units in the Halls, I will need to know more about a couple of the figures, namely the size of the bases for all of the figures (I'm looking at Talos, Echelon, and Azuk Sharptooth and assume that these figures are not single hex figures, but that the rest of them all) I also don't know if Talos will actually work with any level of ease within VVV but will give it a look once I know how big it is.

Echelon is double Azuk too. Talso was on two diffrent hexes but his legs straddled a third :P Not sure how you would do that. :)

Talos 8" was comfy on 2 spaces.

Talos 12" takes 3 spaces. One empty in the middle. Talos 12" is supreme in my opinion. He's just that much bigger. I did the old boiling techinque and was able to close the gap. Talos 12" can be successfully glued to a 2-space HS base with the boil method!
That's just wrong to make a 12" fig fit onto a 2 space base. Wrong on so many levels.

What was the exact figure used for Talos anyway

[reapersaurus]

Considering this is a new site, shouldn't the old figures get a quick re-check before induction? I feel some things that were acceptable at the time might seem annoying by now, especially in lighht of new published units...What do you suggest?
Get the original creators to change the card? (not gonna happen, on many of them)
Wholesale change the card without them?

They are in the Halls for a variety of reasons - not JUST because of thier standard word-use and balanced powers.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

What was the exact figure used for Talos anyway

Well, it was, Talos!

Manufactured by X-Plus. Japan, I think.


http://upload3.postimage.org/232649/002TeamBwithbike.jpg (http://upload3.postimage.org/232649/photo_hosting.html)

[Doc_Savage]

Discussion-wise on the HQ thread I thought there was (at times) way to much discussion on the Cards. So much that it probably should have been put back to the creator's custom thread.

I don't think that there are any cards currently in the Hall that don't deserve it. There are a lot of reasons for the cards to be in the Hall. History plays a vital part. The Aratak units got many of us thinking about customs in the first place and Talos is just monumental in that regard.

There was so much discussion on many of these that they deserve to keep their place.

My only critisism is when the discussion turns to sweeping changes in the unit it is time to say it isn't Halls ready and take the discussion back to the creators thread. If later, someone likes the changes made, they can re-nominate the card.

[reapersaurus]

My only critisism is when the discussion turns to sweeping changes in the unit it is time to say it isn't Halls ready and take the discussion back to the creators thread. If later, someone likes the changes made, they can re-nominate the card.I'd agree with this.
it's just a fine line to draw, and a tough one to recognise when it reaches that point, is all. :shrug:

[Fallen Templar]

I think i got all the units who were in the halls in the display thread

[Euryon]

Missed the SAS Commando's :(

[Fallen Templar]

Missed the SAS Commando's :( Sorry Bout that i missed them I put them. Many apologies Euryon

[Euryon]

And many thanks in return :)

[Fallen Templar]

Alright maybe since the halls are complete maybe we should start some nominations soon

[Euryon]

I think someone needs to produce something that deserves the nomination... I remember there being a lot of discussion about this.

Are we retaining the same judges and system as the old HoV?

Either way, a repost/rediscussion of rules and who does what is certainly necessary....

I know ArchonShiva was pulled in as some sort of tie-breaker in light of some judges being absent (reaper maybe? Who ive seen here quite a bit)


Anyway... If you see stuff you wanna nominate (not your own work) you can generally nominate it... But there should be some guidelines on standards (good english, sensible powers, balanced, functional, legible design, etc - this list is neither exhaustive or probably "correct" - just suggestions)

[Fallen Templar]

I'm guessing no predator card i suppose :wink:

[Fallen Templar]

Since I can't nominate myself I might as well nominate a unit. I'm nominating
Netherspirit's SheildWalker 7000. I believe the the protect the valient ability is unique and makes it Halls worthy. http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-shieldgolem.jpg
I know someone was going to nominate this unit but I beleive it is fine as of now

[Doc_Savage]

Yep. That's the one I was gonna nominate after giving nether a chance to tweak the wording on the Special Defense. I think the meaning and wording is clear, but it is a bit unofficial-ish.

I think the great idea here is the Special Defense. A defensive power that the number of defense dice cannot be altered. That is a new idea and the icing is the "protect the valiant" that makes sure the Shieldwalker can use that defense.

I like this Army Card a lot.

[Jason]

"Netherspirit's SheildWalker 7000. I believe the the protect the valient ability is unique and makes it Halls worthy. "

Actually it's not a Unique ability since I posted a card with almost identical abilities 1 month prior to him on HQ.com. Feel free to include his card but saying it is a Unique ability is not true. Here is the custom I created on HQ.com that preceeded the Shieldwalker creation by 1 month

http://upload4.postimage.org/243677/CustomCard2.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/243677/photo_hosting.html)

[Karkadinn]

Meh, I still don't see the uniqueness in this unit. Both abilities have been done before in various other customs....
OTOH, originality isn't everything. How it all fits together as a whole is important too.

[netherspirit]

Thanks for the nod guys.

As for not being "unique" or "original" I do believe I am the only one to do a Special Defense :P

Will comment more later when I am not so tired.

Thanks again for the nom.

[ArchonShiva]

I'm nominating
Netherspirit's SheildWalker 7000.Though it's not an infinite, this one allows a bonding chain, letting you activate three army cards in the same turn. I assume this is voluntary?

The one that's a little more insidious is that while you must meet the condition that he could end his turn adjacent to the other figure, he doesn't HAVE to. He could just move any which way, as long as he *could* end his turn adjacent.

[netherspirit]

I'm nominating
Netherspirit's SheildWalker 7000.Though it's not an infinite, this one allows a bonding chain, letting you activate three army cards in the same turn. I assume this is voluntary?

The one that's a little more insidious is that while you must meet the condition that he could end his turn adjacent to the other figure, he doesn't HAVE to. He could just move any which way, as long as he *could* end his turn adjacent.

Its only a move, not a whole turn with him.

I think thats being a little nitpicky and rule lawyer-y on the wording for the end move requirement but I will read word it. You are probably right though so I will add the word have or something.

[netherspirit]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-shieldgolem.jpg
Shield Golem 061 - $1.95 (http://www.trollandtoad.com/p109396.html)

Made a few wording changes, I kept the statement about the wounds even though I think the new wording is clear. Everything before that statement should be clear enough for me to take the last sentence out. What do you think?

Also I took out the word CAN from his Move Power. :)

[reapersaurus]

A custom like that, I would like to see in the Halls.....
I've always liked that unit, and it makes a difference that the shield power is on a miniature that makes me feel like it should be defending someone else.

Theme is the crucial thing that many customs lack, imo - an appropriate set of abilities that add to the feel of the miniature.

What mini is this guy, again?

[netherspirit]

I added the link under the picture.

[netherspirit]

Made some slight wording changes.

[Karkadinn]

I do have some suspicions regarding the 'Special Defense' concept. What made you decide to use it? What other cases would you see it being appropriate? The thing is, we have special defensive powers in the regular game that don't use such terminology, and so I'm wondering where you would consider the term useful and where you wouldn't, since being inconsistent with the base game seems like an obviously bad thing to me....

[Doc_Savage]

In my mind, the reason that it is a special defense is that the defense stat is not raised by height or glyphs or anything else.

I don't see it as being inconsistant. I see it as an exact extension of the Special Attack idea. I could also see it being used for melee or ranged only defenses for certain characters where you don't want anything messing with the defense.

[InfinityMax]

I have to say, I like this Shieldmaker dude. I think he's got a cool little mix of powers, and he seems fairly original to me. He's an excellent support unit.

I am really not that bothered by the three-part chain you could make with this guy. Sure, he could be moved after someone who moved after someone else, but he doesn't get a turn, he just gets to keep up. This lets you move the shieldmaker into position to defend the 4th Mass, and with a life of only 4, it's not as though he's going to be there forever.

Nether, have you tested this guy? If so, did he feel too cheap? I think a guy who could stand in the middle of cheap figures and grant each one a defense of 5 is pretty valuable. I could see adding him to a ranged unit (like the 4th Mass) to make them especially safe.

[netherspirit]

IMax, when I tested him after I made him a month ago (Jason he was created April 10th, not last week, he was posted elsewhere, first) He was undercosted but at that time he got to take a full turn with his "bonding" power. I took that away and thought he might be okay, but will probably need to go up about 15-20 is my guess. I will test him again when we get him finalized.

[Grungebob]

"Netherspirit's SheildWalker 7000. I believe the the protect the valient ability is unique and makes it Halls worthy. "

Actually it's not a Unique ability since I posted a card with almost identical abilities 1 month prior to him on HQ.com. Feel free to include his card but saying it is a Unique ability is not true. Here is the custom I created on HQ.com that preceeded the Shieldwalker creation by 1 month

http://upload4.postimage.org/243677/CustomCard2.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/243677/photo_hosting.html)This is funny that you say this Jason, because there have been similar specials around for a while. You were certainly not the first to come up with a mildly similar mechanic....

[LilNewbie]

Not sure originality is always a shoe-in for a nomination. If a unit uses standard abilities but does it in an interesting way especially how it relates to the figure, then it could be nominated and even be inducted into the halls. Grats to NS for getting the Shieldbearer nominated! Even if it doesn't get inducted, it's a great idea.

Newb.

[daevablacc]

I agree that he should cost a little bit more. Good design, though Nether. It's a nice change of pace from Raelin. I agree that he should keep his "special defense." Letting him boost his special defense w/ elevation would seem kinda retarded.

[InfinityMax]

Good enough for me, Nether. If you change him, let me know. Right now my vote is to let him into the Halls.

[netherspirit]

I am still working on finalizing the wording on the Special Defense. GB and Chaos have been helping out with that.

Thanks for the nod. :)

[reapersaurus]

I've already said this is the kind of flavorful, balanced unit that fans should easily see in a spotlight thread (i.e. the Halls).

But who all are judges here?
Is there still a reason to have more than 3 judges?
The lag at HQ caused the problems of getting a timely concensus recently - does that problem exist anymore?
I know for myself, it's easier to check this thread when there's not an hour's worth of lag when catching up each day....

What benefit do we have with more than 3 judges?
Do the potential benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks?

[Grungebob]

I've already said this is the kind of flavorful, balanced unit that fans should easily see in a spotlight thread (i.e. the Halls).

But who all are judges here?
Is there still a reason to have more than 3 judges?
The lag at HQ caused the problems of getting a timely concensus recently - does that problem exist anymore?
I know for myself, it's easier to check this thread when there's not an hour's worth of lag when catching up each day....

What benefit do we have with more than 3 judges?
Do the potential benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks?I like this unit allot too.

I mentioned on HQ and I will mention it again.. I want to no longer be a judge of the Halls. I would reccommend Archonshiva or Imax to replace me. I would rather nominate than anything.

[truth]

I was kinda a judge for 5 minutes... so if it's not clear I'm not claiming to retain that position. I'm a bit too busy maintaining the site.

[Karkadinn]

It'd be a pity to let go of Grunge and Truth, but if that's how they want it... IMax should definitely still be in, IMHO, if he still wants the position. That brings us back to three again, and if anyone feels we need more we can bring in Archy.

[reapersaurus]

I mentioned on HQ and I will mention it again.. I want to no longer be a judge of the Halls. Why not? :(

I agree with Kark - it would be a pity if you were not a judge.

[InfinityMax]

Good question, Reaper. Looks like right now it's you, me and Kark. Are we forgetting anyone? Is Atmospro a judge?

[Doc_Savage]

As I asked on page 1 of this thread...

Who are the judges?

What is the procedure for approving a nominee?

Does there have to be a unanamous consent?

Does this site have to have the same Halls as HQ?


I think that Reaper, Grungebob, Karkadinn, InfinitiMax, Archonshiva, and Atmospro are all good choices for Judges. They represent and a fair, rounded group that (importantly) doesn't always agree.

I think that 4 judges would be fine and that 3 out of 4 approves a Card.

I don't go to HQ much anymore and see no need for the 2 sites to have an identical Halls (although that would be a nice bit of symmetry)

I do think there is value in having a place where new members and visitors can go to view good custom cards as well as historically important and interesting cards. It also gives a goal for new custom makers to strive for.

[Fallen Templar]

Yes it has the same Halls but the orders different

[netherspirit]

I don't go to HQ much anymore and see no need for the 2 sites to have an identical Halls (although that would be a nice bit of symmetry)

So you don't know?

Go there....

[InfinityMax]

Wow, Doc, when you said you don't visit HQ much, you weren't kidding.

I think it's best that all the HQ cards are here. I would hate to miss something. I have used a lot of those cards in my games.

[netherspirit]

I know you are still trying to figure out who the judges are but here is the newest version. The only thing that I think needs refining is the cost. I upped it to 100, because when I tested him at 80 about a month ago (with normal bonding and affecting all attacks) he was worth a little more. He was tough, and definately saved the MinuteMen more than once. I think 100 is justifable. I will have to test him some more with the new changes.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-shieldgolem.jpg

[Grungebob]

It'd be a pity to let go of Grunge and Truth, but if that's how they want it... IMax should definitely still be in, IMHO, if he still wants the position. That brings us back to three again, and if anyone feels we need more we can bring in Archy.I think that there are enough new members that I can easily step down for a while. Man, us oldtimers need to make room for some new blood, and I am not any better judge of these units than allot of the newer members. I don't think it is a good thing for the halls to be judged by JUST oldtimers. Let's shake it up a bit! Archonshiva has an extremely good eye for these things and Imax is totally passionate about the fun of customs!! Lets do it!!

[InfinityMax]

I'm all for nominating this one as-is. Have we figured out how many of us have to agree for that to happen?

And thanks for the vote of confidence, GB.

[Rhydderch]

Glad to see the Halls discussion back up =) I'm surprised its not stickied though. *hint hint* :wink:

Also should we consider drawing more people into the discussion here? I imagine the thread could benefit from increased feedback and that many newer designers would also learn much if they were to participate in the discussions here. Maybe a population-selected custom could be entered into the Halls every now and then just to mix it up. I'm not sure if that would draw more interest here but it might help =)

As for the Shieldwalker itself I agree with Reaper that it has a nice theme and can definitely provide some good support for figures with lower defense. That kind of combination fits the Jandar theme especially well. The second ability might be re-worded to:

-After taking a turn with any figure you control with a valiant personality...

Since cards do not exactly take a turn. Also the use of the word turn may need to be clarified. As written the Shieldwalker can move AFTER the turn but only if a figure moved THIS TURN. Personally I think the original text without the added requirement was fine. Also the last sentence allows the Shieldwalker to move once for a bonded Hero and again for the squad (since you "first take a turn" with the hero, then you take the normal turn with the squad). I'm not sure if this was intentional. If not the last sentence might be re-worded to: This ability may only be used once per order marker revealed.

I think the difficulty is in differentiating between a turn and the space of time that passes between the revealing of order markers. Multiple turns can take place in that space. Let me know if this is the case Nether or if I'm simply misinterpreting the parameters for the activation of the Protect ability. Thanks for the cool unit!

[Karkadinn]

A majority is enough to get a unit into the Halls, so Shieldwalker's in.
Rhydderch... one of the qualities taken into account when judging a unit is overall popularity. That's how the flag dude made it in. :) Without taking that into account, frankly, I don't think it would have gotten the majority votes needed. Rest assured that us judges are capable of voting for something on the strength of popular opinion even if we disagree with that popular opinion....

[ArchonShiva]

I think the difficulty is in differentiating between a turn and the space of time that passes between the revealing of order markers. Multiple turns can take place in that space.Ouch, Rych is right! I was going to point that out but when I re-read the card I figured your once per turn protected against that. Nothing in HS counts turns, that I know of, and bonding does refer to taking a turn before taking a turn, so you would, by the exact wording, get two activations with Denrick and the Knights. I believe this might be a problem -- the once per turn bit actually doesn't do a thing.

"All wounds that would be inflicted." sounds weird. "receives any wounds.", maybe?

Also, minor quibble, but wouldn't you protect the weak instead of the valiant? Valiant makes him a more useful figure though.

[Judge? Sure. I would, of course, be around the halls more often. Just sort it between yourselves if you want me in or not. Maybe I'm better as an official nitpicker.]

[netherspirit]

-After taking a turn with any figure you control with a valiant personality...

Since cards do not exactly take a turn. Also the use of the word turn may need to be clarified. As written the Shieldwalker can move AFTER the turn but only if a figure moved THIS TURN. Personally I think the original text without the added requirement was fine. Also the last sentence allows the Shieldwalker to move once for a bonded Hero and again for the squad (since you "first take a turn" with the hero, then you take the normal turn with the squad). I'm not sure if this was intentional. If not the last sentence might be re-worded to: This ability may only be used once per order marker revealed.

I think the difficulty is in differentiating between a turn and the space of time that passes between the revealing of order markers. Multiple turns can take place in that space. Let me know if this is the case Nether or if I'm simply misinterpreting the parameters for the activation of the Protect ability. Thanks for the cool unit!

Ouch, Rych is right! I was going to point that out but when I re-read the card I figured your once per turn protected against that. Nothing in HS counts turns, that I know of, and bonding does refer to taking a turn before taking a turn, so you would, by the exact wording, get two activations with Denrick and the Knights. I believe this might be a problem -- the once per turn bit actually doesn't do a thing.

"All wounds that would be inflicted." sounds weird. "receives any wounds.", maybe?

Also, minor quibble, but wouldn't you protect the weak instead of the valiant? Valiant makes him a more useful figure though.

I didn't see any problem using the Valiant Army card as a classification because Dund refers to army cards...but if it needs changed it needs changed...

I also don't think the word turn needs changed either, its worded almost exactly like bonding except instead of before its after and there are some requirements.

Yes can only use it if a figure moved, he is trying to keep up with them to protect them.

Also, after rereading and thinking about it, you are probably correct that the last sentence doesn't do anything, but I don't see a problem with him being able to move twice. Its only a move, not attack, plus his special ability is a defense ability so he won't get to do anything on your turn but move (unless you put an order marker on him). I really don't think thats an issue.

I have changed the wound sentence so many times my mind is jello when it comes to discussing wounds...

[Rhydderch]

Hi Kark: the suggestion for a more popular-based submission to the halls was more of an idea to garner discussion and participation here, and less of a concern of whether the judges consider what people think of a card. Obviously all of you are well qualified for your work here and I'm not worried about that at all =) I was just trying to think of some ways to maybe get more of the general populace to maybe post here.

Hey Nether: thanks for clarifying whether you think it is ok for the Shieldwalker to move more than once per round. And I understand the idea of having the Shieldwalker follow the figure it protects. The issue with AFTER the turn and THIS TURN is an English reference problem:

The Shieldwalker moves "after" the original figure takes its turn so technically it is no longer the same turn and no figure has moved THIS TURN. Since most people will understand the ability as it is written, its up to you whether you wish to add the clarifications. As for the question of the card versus the figure, Hasbro tends to use the word figure when it comes to taking a turn and the word card for markers or other items that actually go on the card.

As for the Special Defense you can probably change it so the Shieldwalker can protect the figure anytime it is attacked by a normal attack:

Whenever a friendly small or medium figure is attacked by another figure's normal attack, Shieldwalker 7000 may protect that figure with Protection Shield Special Defense. Shieldwalker 7000 receives any wounds inflicted.

Otherwise a figure with 0 defense would not receive protection from the Shieldwalker. This version would also allow the Shieldwalker to protect valiant figures from special abilities such as Me-Burq-Sa, which I think is appropriate. Even if your figure is paralyzed the Shieldwalker could still step in to provide a good defense.

Anyway as ArchonShiva mentioned its all minor quibbles so no changes are actually necessary. Its up to you =)

[reapersaurus]

I like the nitpicking, but think the card is good enough to go in to the Halls.
If that's a concensus/majority, than who wants to add it to the Halls thread?

And the guy who started that thread on here needs to clean it up more. :mad:
I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm, but it's odd to have a non-judge start that thread, and actually it's a bad idea, since we can't modify the thread's initial post.
I think I (or another judge) should make a new thread, and copy over the first post he did, clean up the typos, and then we can delete the old thread.
What do yuo judges think?

[Rhydderch]

Hey Reaper: I agree on the entry since nitpicking can be done post-entry or not at all if people are happy with the card. Not that my weight on when a card should be entered really matters since I'm not a judge =P

[Karkadinn]

I think I (or another judge) should make a new thread, and copy over the first post he did, clean up the typos, and then we can delete the old thread.
What do yuo judges think?

Agreed.
As usual, I wait for you to say something I don't wanna say but think needs to be said, and then back it up. ;D

[LilNewbie]

Just have a Mod rename this thread and start a new Official Halls of Valhalla.

Newb.

[ultradoug]

I belive this unit is the funnest I've seen, I know my funny. Now, you all can say that it neads work but I'm standing by this as the funnest unit ever.
If funny does not meen that its "good" then I dont know. But here it is.

http://heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10031/GrishnakhCard.jpg

[Fallen Templar]

I can delete the transition thread if you want

[Grungebob]

I can delete the transition thread if you wantNo I may need it.

[Doc_Savage]

Grungebob - As you are cleaning this thread up, I think that it would be nice to standardize the entries.

Start each entry with the Card's name and the card creator's (online) name. If there is a bio, that should be next, followed by the Card and then a pix (if any) of the figure in action. At the end you should put the link to the creator's custom thread...

if you need an image of Bodvar in action, try this...

[IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/Doc_Savage/Heroscape%20game%20pics/BodvarVikings2.jpg[/IMG

(obviously you'll need to add the last bracket)

Thanks, Grungebob

[truth]

I like the nitpicking, but think the card is good enough to go in to the Halls.
If that's a concensus/majority, than who wants to add it to the Halls thread?

And the guy who started that thread on here needs to clean it up more. :mad:
I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm, but it's odd to have a non-judge start that thread, and actually it's a bad idea, since we can't modify the thread's initial post.
I think I (or another judge) should make a new thread, and copy over the first post he did, clean up the typos, and then we can delete the old thread.
What do yuo judges think?

Ok I deleted the first two posts in the thread. Reaper you know have the first post, so feel free to edit it to your liking.

[Grishnakh]

I belive this unit is the funnest I've seen, I know my funny. Now, you all can say that it neads work but I'm standing by this as the funnest unit ever. If funny does not meen that its "good" then I dont know. But here it is.

http://heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10031/GrishnakhCard.jpg


Thanks ultradoug. It was meant for laughs all along but since you're "serious" :D about this I would be happy to alter this to make it "hall worthy". Personally I like it just the way it is and trying to alter it too much will cause it to loose much of it's humor. Maybe suggestions from the cheering section?

I could create a figure outline and put it in place instead of just repeating the head. Granted it will have to be in the same style as the rest of the card or it will look too "polished". I probably could lower the life points some as well as the cost but I'm not sure, Grishnakh is a pretty big guy. Maybe this is a two hex figure like Krug.

I could also add an explaination as to how Grishnakh eats a tree. Figure must be adjacent to the tree and spend one round destroying the tree as an action? Again, my main concern is getting to far away from the humor but still maintaining the playability of the card.

[Karkadinn]

As hilarious as Grishnakh is, I don't think he's right for the Halls. IMHO the Halls are to show people examples of what they should be trying to make... and Grishnakh's humor lies in its uniqueness. If people copied it it wouldn't be so funny anymore. Still, it does deserve some kind of recognition. Maybe a featurette in the Codex sometime instead?

[daevablacc]

I could create a figure outline and put it in place instead of just repeating the head. Granted it will have to be in the same style as the rest of the card or it will look too "polished". I probably could lower the life points some as well as the cost but I'm not sure, Grishnakh is a pretty big guy. Maybe this is a two hex figure like Krug.

I could also add an explaination as to how Grishnakh eats a tree. Figure must be adjacent to the tree and spend one round destroying the tree as an action? Again, my main concern is getting to far away from the humor but still maintaining the playability of the card.
I wouldn't worry about making the targeting profile, or making the wording "official" or "clear." Like this for example:

Krug eat tree at end of turn if next to tree.

[daevablacc]

As hilarious as Grishnakh is, I don't think he's right for the Halls. IMHO the Halls are to show people examples of what they should be trying to make... and Grishnakh's humor lies in its uniqueness. If people copied it it wouldn't be so funny anymore. Still, it does deserve some kind of recognition. Maybe a featurette in the Codex sometime instead?
I think that we should put unique cards in the halls coz I see it as a place for people to find all the best cards in one place. IMHO

[ArchonShiva]

Personally, if a few minor changes were made to Grishnak:

a) lower his stats, he's a bit too powerful

b) make an actual figure, and a proper targeting bracket. Could be a Krug repain, or whatever.

I think I'd definitely back him up for the Halls. I mean, he just *works*. The figure is oozing with style, and worded like the stupid troll (sorry to the poster himself) made up his own card, with little understanding of artistic consistency or gameplay considerations.

I wouldn't worry about making the targeting profile, or making the wording "official" or "clear." Like this for example:

Krug eat tree at end of turn if next to tree.I disagree, and feel this is important. Grishnak's power allows him to eat 5 trees per game. He doesn't need to be next to them, or use an order marker, or whatever. So long as he's not *dead*, he can eat trees. You could remove them as the game starts, or when they block another unit's movement or line of sight.

The only claraification I might suggest is "Remove them from the board.", as remove from play isn't an HS'ism.

[Karkadinn]

I'm interested in hearing what Reaper and Imax think of this... :) It's certainly an oddball of a nomination.
I think giving him an actual figure would take away from the artistry of it, unless the figure was drawn crudely as the rest of it instead of photographed.

[Grungebob]

My opinion is that the unit should be playable. That means that there needs to be an obtainable mini, pwers that do not leave too many questions and do not break the game. Points and stats that are reasonable etc..

[InfinityMax]

Sorry I haven't chimed in yet on Grishnak. My vote is a big no. It was meant as a comic piece, and if we had a Halls of Rubber Chickens in Valhalla, it would be a shoe-in. But the Halls are supposed to be where you go to find units you can use, where you can flip through a few customs and say, 'I could use that tonight!'

I also don't want to see it changed to be Halls-worthy. That would completely destroy the purpose of that card in the first place. If it was slick and polished and well-tuned, it wouldn't be funny any more.

[Fallen Templar]

Hey I have a fig that kinda look like Grisnakh :wink: . Seriously though could we amend something that Hand written cards must be readable

[K/H_Addict]

too lazy to read all 7 pages, so im sorry if this has been answered, but what are the requirements for enduction to the halls of valhalla?

[Grungebob]

too lazy to read all 7 pages, so im sorry if this has been answered, but what are the requirements for enduction to the halls of valhalla?I'm too lazy to answer your question :roll:

[K/H_Addict]

:oops:


sadly, deep down inside, i am kicking my self for not seeing that coming. i'm really hurt by that, GB. :cry:




























:joke:

[ArchonShiva]

I'm interested in hearing what Reaper and Imax think of this... :) It's certainly an oddball of a nomination.
I think giving him an actual figure would take away from the artistry of it, unless the figure was drawn crudely as the rest of it instead of photographed.

Picture drawn crudely, off a Krug repaint, with the targeting picture from an actual photograph as usual?

I can maybe find someone to draw the picture, if I ask nicely (and offer sexual favors -- I'm willing to go that far for Heroscape!)

[reapersaurus]

(I was busy with Kublacon)

Oh - I updated the 1st post (thanks truth!) to include an explanatory section and Nomination Guidleines I made up as I was writing it.
Let me know what you guys think.
Also, who are the judges now, exactly? I'd want to add that to the 1st post.

Grishnack - wow.

kark - you may be surprised, but I like the card. A lot.
It is an example of a completely-unique, kid-like card. The effort gets this across perfectly.

The only problem I have with the effort is that while I wouldn't mind seeing that card in the Halls as an example of a unique take on a custom, I still would require that the unit is costed properly.
If someone can get the ability/stats/costs right within reasonable testing parameters, I would probably vote for its special inclusion, based on uniqueness of card design and inspirational imagination.

[reapersaurus]

Some maintenance that I think could be done - don't ask me whos going to do all these ;) :

* sticky the discussion thread
* put a link to the discussion thread into GB's HoV thread
* gb should move his customs to the user gallery section
* a Halls gallery should be in the customization section of the gallery, and the cards should be uploaded and the references in GB's HoV thread updated (away from the comcast site)
* the gallery should get the keywords cleaned up - it lists multiple occurences of the same word
* GB's HoV thread should have the last 4 entries (Bodvar, SBoW, Manelishi and SAS Commandos) added in
* the HoV thread that was made by the other guy should be deleted so as to not confuse people which is which
* can GB's HoV thread be restricted so that only judges can make new posts?

[netherspirit]

* sticky the discussion thread
* GB's HoV thread should have the last 4 entries (Bodvar, SBoW, Manelishi and SAS Commandos) added in

Doing it right now. (edit - stickied)

What about ShieldWalker what was the final verdict on him?

Also, looking into some of the other things on your list....I know GB was doing some things so maybe when I see him on I will get with him and see if he wants me to do any of that other stuff.....

[Fallen Templar]

* the HoV thread that was made by the other guy should be deleted so as to not confuse people which is which
GB told me to keep it up until he finished the othr HOV. Thanks now I'm the other guy :wink:

[reapersaurus]

I still vote Shieldwalker in - with the caveat that you tell me what you think of this neat-looking Dreamblade mini that screamed to maybe be used for your unit.

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/dbm_article_20060530a_pic1_en.jpg
Knight of Strife and Joy

and FallenTemplar - I'm sorry for not knowing your name. I really would have preferred to use your name, but it's hard to remember for some reaason....

[Fallen Templar]

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/dbm_article_20060530a_pic1_en.jpg
Knight of Strife and Joy

and FallenTemplar - I'm sorry for not knowing your name. I really would have preferred to use your name, but it's hard to remember for some reaason.... No problem I changed my screename from HQ well anyway The only problem with the dreamblade figures is so far the only one shown to HS scale is quite large. This one may be the same.

[LilNewbie]

Here is from the Dreamblade FAQ about the scale of the minis:

How big are the miniatures?
They have bases that are the same size as the large creatures (like ogres) in the D&D miniatures game (40mm). The creatures themselves vary in size, but on average they are similar in size to the large ogres, abominations, and dragons of D&D minis.

Newb.

[netherspirit]

I still vote Shieldwalker in - with the caveat that you tell me what you think of this neat-looking Dreamblade mini that screamed to maybe be used for your unit.

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/dbm_article_20060530a_pic1_en.jpg
Knight of Strife and Joy

While I like the figure and he does portray the "protector" persona I like the larger-ness of the Shield Golem. Perhaps the Knight could be like a ShieldWalker 6000 that gives a 4-die Special Defense and some other cool power :)

[reapersaurus]

[quote=reapersaurus]
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/dbm_article_20060530a_pic1_en.jpg
Knight of Strife and Joy

and FallenTemplar - I'm sorry for not knowing your name. I really would have preferred to use your name, but it's hard to remember for some reaason.... No problem I changed my screename from HQ well anyway The only problem with the dreamblade figures is so far the only one shown to HS scale is quite large. This one may be the same. In fact
They have bases that are the same size as the large creatures (like ogres) in the D&D miniatures game (40mm). The creatures themselves vary in size, but on average they are similar in size to the large ogres, abominations, and dragons of D&D minis.[/qoute]I have the Boneblade Serpent - what do you want to know about their scale? :)
I know their base doesn't fit on a HS hex....

It is a good question, though - whether this humanoid-looking mini is more in scale with HS humanoids....

[Karkadinn]

I like your first post retcon, Reaper. Clear and reasonable. :) The judges, as it stands, I believe, are you, me, and Imax, with ArchonShiva being in a sort of gray area. I like it just being three judges, nothing against Archon, but this way there's no chance of ties. :) If you or Max disagree with me and would rather he be in, then I say we make a vote of it as we would a card.
Grishy is still disapproved by a majority (Max and me) for reasons of simple Halls-appropriateness, but maybe if you argued hard enough you could change our minds, if you felt like trying. ;D

[InfinityMax]

I'm out on Grishnak, just because I don't think he's a grab-it-now-and-start-playing custom. He's amusing, and I like him, but I don't think he's a card you can just grab and play.

I like Shieldwalker, and my vote is to include him.

[K/H_Addict]

ah yes...a new goal for my life.

"Be inducted into the Halls of Valhalla"

dream on, K/H_A, dream on.

[Karkadinn]

ah yes...a new goal for my life.

"Be inducted into the Halls of Valhalla"

dream on, K/H_A, dream on.

I've been dreamin' that dream way longer than you have. ;D I bet Reaper has too, whether he admits it or not.... ;)
Longing without hope makes for the best goth poetry.

[Grungebob]

I got a nomination here!!!! Netherspirit's Dragon Twins.... They are super cool and have new fresh abilities where each member of the squad actd diferently. Dragon Twin powers ACTIVATE!!!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-dragonsiblings.jpg

[netherspirit]

:blush:

Thanks GB. I'm honored for the nomination.

I really like these guys. I came up with them to fit into my Feylund story line that I am using to create my own expansion. Anyways I think they will work pretty well, they are priced at 90 because Charos is 210 and their power boosts are conditional. I would be interested to see what others think :) Or any changes that would be suggested. Thanks again for the nom GB. Wow, 2 noms in a pretty short time.....

Here is the bio I came up with for them.

SIBLINGS OF THE CROWN

Born to a common dragon, Aelos and Aegol are the only 2 known heirs to Charos' throne. They were ignorant of their true identies until they were summoned by Ullar, at the request of Charos, to Valhalla. When Charos told them one of them would have right to his throne, Aegol was outraged. He knew that he should be the only heir, he was a better leader than his brother Aelos. Aelos on the other hand was pleased, he knew that he could outperform his all brawn and no brains brother. Each is a great warrior in his own right, since they are twins and both hatched from their eggs at the same time, Charos has to decide who his heir will be. Aelos and Aegol are on a mission to impress their Kingly Father, Charos.

[Grungebob]

You could give them the bonus as long as there is any Dragon King or Queen in their army. After all they don't share the same general as Charos...

[K/H_Addict]

a question for nether:


On Aegol's Anger (bronze dragon) it says that Aelos gains the added attack and defense. Is this a typo? it seemed a little odd to me that Aelos has 2 methods of powering up.

[netherspirit]

a question for nether:


On Aegol's Anger (bronze dragon) it says that Aelos gains the added attack and defense. Is this a typo? it seemed a little odd to me that Aelos has 2 methods of powering up.

Hit F5 to refresh, you are seeing an older version with a typo :)

You could give them the bonus as long as there is any Dragon King or Queen in their army. After all they don't share the same general as Charos...

Huh? They are both Ullar....

[Grungebob]

Yes you are correct. What I mean is that you could make them more draftable by allowing them to get the bonus from any Dragon King or Queen on the same army.

[netherspirit]

Yes you are correct. What I mean is that you could make them more draftable by allowing them to get the bonus from any Dragon King or Queen on the same army.

I kind of like that they only get it from Charos, its fitting with the backstory. They are his children, unless of course Braxas is Charos' queen. Which could she could be, but we don't know because Hasbro is slow....they are trying to show off for their father...I'm not opposed to changing it, it just fits with what I came up with :)

[Grungebob]

It was just a suggestion for flexibility... TOTALLY not necessary. But if you did it you would not have to change the backstory

[Grishnakh]

(I was busy with Kublacon)
Grishnack - wow. kark - you may be surprised, but I like the card. A lot.
It is an example of a completely-unique, kid-like card. The effort gets this across perfectly.

The only problem I have with the effort is that while I wouldn't mind seeing that card in the Halls as an example of a unique take on a custom, I still would require that the unit is costed properly.
If someone can get the ability/stats/costs right within reasonable testing parameters, I would probably vote for its special inclusion, based on uniqueness of card design and inspirational imagination.

Grishnakh like thank reapersauris and all other who supported Grishnakh's card. Grishnakh go to bar and drink now....

[reapersaurus]

ah yes...a new goal for my life.

"Be inducted into the Halls of Valhalla"

dream on, K/H_A, dream on.

I've been dreamin' that dream way longer than you have. ;D I bet Reaper has too, whether he admits it or not.... ;)
Longing without hope makes for the best goth poetry.Well, actually, I got my Grammaton Cleric inducted, but I never felt comfortable about it being in, so I didn;t put it up.

Even tho it is thematic, fitting, matches the source material, and even was the first unit to have a once-per-round limitation (one of the few custom abilities that Hasbro has used on an official unit), I just don't think it's near my best work that I'm proudest of.

[Doc_Savage]

Well, actually, I got my Grammaton Cleric inducted, but I never felt comfortable about it being in, so I didn;t put it up.

Even tho it is thematic, fitting, matches the source material, and even was the first unit to have a once-per-round limitation (one of the few custom abilities that Hasbro has used on an official unit), I just don't think it's near my best work that I'm proudest of.

So what would you consider your best work? The Grammaton is a great Card and very worthy.

I would like to nominate the Reflective Monks by Reaper and the Bizarro Thread contributors.

[reapersaurus]

some of my favorites that I'm proudest of are:

* Hunting Raptors, for cementing the Neutral Unit mechanic.
But there was a lot of assistance with you and chameleon, IIRC, so tough to nominate on that basis alone.

* I'm very proud of the Revenant. It's connection between theme, and new/unique-at-the-time abilities are very strong, IMO. (I'm BIG on a unit's abilities being new, and matching the theme/concept of the CHARACTER.)

* Grammaton Cleric is strong, but I believe a lot of the strength is the awesome card, and my wife made the request for the card, so it wasn't my idea alone.... :)

* The Oliphaunt is the singular most over-the-top creative unit ever made, IMO. Its powers not only work and most were never done before, much less attempted, but they FIT the source material! I analyzed/remembered the entire LotR RotK battle sequences, and wanted to give the HS player everyting that Mumakil could do in the movie. Of course, it's too bad it's just a imaginary-design exercise (no fig IRL) that is intended to stretch the boundaries of the game to see what it could contain.

* noone seems to see it/agree, but the unit I'm most proud of is the Marrow Warriors. :shock:
They are the exact opposite in concept to the Marro Warriors, and their mechanic of merging is still unique, elegantly perfect in design, and game power, giving up opportunity costs to get more power, but less attacks.
I REALLY want them to get a Bizarro card made, more than anything, because I'm most proud of their design.

Oh - the Reflective Monks is all me, I'm pretty sure. They were in the very first posts in that thread, completed card out the gate.
But they are kinda a no-brainer I think - just the most obvious Bizarro power of the whole set. I do like the wordplay of the ability quite a bit, though. :D

I'm proud of pushing and pushing the Equipment Card idea, even if much of the insipration came from HSGear. The key element missing in HSGear was combining it into the custom unit creation process. Not using them as a mod, but as a way of making more flexible custom units, and allowing creators the freedom to offload a bit of the text space onto other more applicable places (the equipment card). It also provides a library of abilitiers that can be plopped onto custom units so that any creator can make a favorite character in HS, by choosing from the already-made abilities, whether they take the form of Equipment, Treasure, or Spells.

I'm proud of creating the Halls of Valhalla, to highlight other creator's best efforts. But that's not a unit.

I have 2 or 3 customs unmade that I think are Halls quality, but because i suck at graphics and I want them to be as good as other people's if I'm gonna put them out there, and I have 2 Custom Rules systems that I want to publish that are pretty good, but not Halls quality IMO.

[old man self-congratulatory rant] But what I'm most proud of my role in this customs community is the entire concept of pushing for higher quality with HS customs.
Some old timers might remember what the customs community was like before I started providing constructive criticism, and some negative criticism. Basically, the HS customs community was "Great unit, man." "Damn, that's cool, aratak." :roll:
Some of us know that non-flattering feedback is REQUIRED to advance and grow in a skill/art. If any of you remember what heat and flame I took for insisting on a level of quality and ensuring that the customs worked alongside standard units costing-wise, you may be able to picture what it would be like if we never moved past that phase.
Maybe if I hadn'ta done it, someone else would have, or people would have eventually evolved to wanting more quality in customs.... :?: I don't know.
But when truth started taking my feedback (and then other people's), responding in a non-defensive way with the intended result of improving his customs, and he *gasp* went back and re-did them and made them objectively better after receiving the feedback, THAT changed the whole customs community, IMO. [/rant]

And that's QUITE enough blabbing about me. I guess I can take one post in one thread out of all the posts I've made to detail what I'm proud of..... :shrug:

[Karkadinn]

Hmm... well, the first thought off the top of my head is that I would rather the size of the text for all special abilities be just one size. :) And I like how it makes use of unique abilities for each squad member, but the abilities themselves are a bit bland for my tastes, IMHO....

[Fallen Templar]

Nilfheim is a king to. I think Icaria has to many kings

[InfinityMax]

I like the Siblings. I can see allowing any dragon king or queen as their parent, though, since it allows drafting flexibility. I see why you picked Charos, but it's sort of metagame, and I think bios should be separated from actual game play.

But with or without that change, my vote is to include them. I've really wanted a good dragon squad for a long time now.

[ArchonShiva]

Grishnakh like thank reapersauris and all other who supported Grishnakh's card. Grishnakh go to bar and drink now....Do note that IMax said he was willing to reconsider it. I suggest you try to make it better, and you still have a shot. I'd love to see that card make it in. And please don't change his power -- it's so great right now! (unless maybe the judges rule it can't make it in as is, but that would be sad)

[ArchonShiva]

The judges, as it stands, I believe, are you, me, and Imax, with ArchonShiva being in a sort of gray area.I never was a judge. I've been called out to give an opinion (specifically) on Agent Bane's nomination, and then we lost the threads before the process could be completed. That is all. No need to feel you are shutting me out.

It has been implied that I might be called again if further judge-made cards came up for nomination, but it doesn't *have* to be me either.

[Grungebob]

Either way, your contributions to the Halls is noteworthy and appreciated Archon.

[Doc_Savage]

I am wondering what is going on with the Halls display thread. There are currently two of them.

[reapersaurus]

Some maintenance that I think could be done - don't ask me whos going to do all these ;) :

* sticky the discussion thread (check)
* put a link to the discussion thread into GB's HoV thread
* gb should move his customs to the user gallery section
* a Halls gallery should be in the customization section of the gallery, and the cards should be uploaded and the references in GB's HoV thread updated (away from the comcast and HQ sites)
* the gallery should get the keywords cleaned up - it lists multiple occurences of the same word (I don't know who would care to do this, and is unneccessary unless we want people to be able to search the Gallery using keywords)
* GB's HoV thread should have the last 4 entries (Bodvar, SBoW, Manelishi and SAS Commandos) added in
* the HoV thread that was made by the other guy should be deleted so as to not confuse people which is which
* can GB's HoV thread be restricted so that only judges can make new posts?That's what I can see what is done and what is still open to be done....

Also add in that the links to the creator's threads in the HoV thread should be updated to point away from HQ (if those creators have a thread up yet)

[Grungebob]

No need to restrict the thread as we have never done it before and it was not a problem at all. working on some of this other stuff.

[Fallen Templar]

What about the addition made after Shade will be placed in to

[Grungebob]

Just got that stuff into the gallery

[Hahnarama]

I'm not sure if this unit was in the Halls before but I would sur elike to see the Praetor's Guard units. I am pretty sure it wsa some of the Tx folks that showed them off/had them as a prize at a Tourny late last year.

[truth]

The links are all to the HQ maintanice site. I redirected the links for my cards, but wasn't sure about the other's new threads or what not.

[truth]

There are many cards out there whose abilities can only be used on figures of certain sizes. For 70 points you can get a little assistance in taking down those over grown oafs with Lil' Newbs Minerva. I would like to nominate it for consideration to be put in the halls.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HS%20Cards/Minerva.jpg

[shakey_snake]

It's really hard to second your nomination when you say things like :
Hey Newb, I'm looking through your cards trying to pick something out to nominate for the halls and I'm wondering... what do you feel your best work is?Personally, a card nominated to the halls should be one that jumps out and grabs you by the throat with thematic completeness and gameplay possibilities.
"Well, I think I'll show lil newb some love today," should not be the way to induct cards.
There should be some objectivity; this isn't like making the cheerleading squad.

.......................
And I think the card lacks the polish that Halls worthy units have.
The Special text should be narrower and larger, and I still think Kenetic influence goes against the "spirit of the game" by having a negative effect, rather than a positive one, and other than in name doesn't fit with the character.

[truth]

It's really hard to second your nomination when you say things like :
Hey Newb, I'm looking through your cards trying to pick something out to nominate for the halls and I'm wondering... what do you feel your best work is?Personally, a card nominated to the halls should be one that jumps out and grabs you by the throat with thematic completeness and gameplay possibilities.
"Well, I think I'll show lil newb some love today," should not be the way to induct cards.
There should be some objectivity; this isn't like making the cheerleading squad.

.......................
And I think the card lacks the polish that Halls worthy units have.
The Special text should be narrower and larger, and I still think Kenetic influence goes against the "spirit of the game" by having a negative effect, rather than a positive one, and other than in name doesn't fit with the character.

I think I know how this works shakey... I invented the halls. :) Or at least was crucial to seeing that they come to pass.

I see no problem with looking over a users work in general and seeing that they have a strong portfolio and wanting to highlight one of thier customs in the halls. The halls are for customs exposure. I already had Minerva in mind but just wanted to get the creators take on what he felt was his best work as he's the closest to it.

[shakey_snake]

I think I know how this works shakey... I invented the halls. :) Or at least was crucial to seeing that they come to pass. Yeah, and the school board member's daughter always makes the cheerleading squad no matter how foul she is, la de freaking da.

I see no problem with looking over a users work in general and seeing that they have a strong portfolio and wanting to highlight one of thier customs in the halls.Well, let me go on record by requesting that none of my units ever get nominated in this way. I only want my units in the halls if they're good enough in their own right.

The halls are for customs exposure.Let me translate what you just said: "The Halls are more or less about status and penis flexing." Case and point:I think I know how this works shakey... I invented the halls. :)

Which is really why I've switched from customs to maps and scenerios. This place stinks of unneccesary politics. The halls should be about showcasing the very best custom units, not about the people that created those units.

[edit]ST, I really apreciate what you've done for this community by giving it a new home and such, but sometimes you can really yak me off. And that's a talent, because it really doesn't happen that often.

[truth]

I think I know how this works shakey... I invented the halls. :) Or at least was crucial to seeing that they come to pass. Yeah, and the school board member's daughter always makes the cheerleading squad no matter how foul she is, la de freaking da.

I see no problem with looking over a users work in general and seeing that they have a strong portfolio and wanting to highlight one of thier customs in the halls.Well, let me go on record by requesting that none of my units ever get nominated in this way. I only want my units in the halls if they're good enough in their own right.

The halls are for customs exposure.Let me translate what you just said: "The Halls are more or less about status and penis flexing."

Which is really why I've switched from customs to maps and scenerios. This place stinks of unneccesary politics. The halls should be about showcasing the very best custom units, not about the people that created those units.

Wow! I've had little dealing with you so I'm not really understanding what your beef with me is. How about this. How about I nominate whatever custom I want and you deal with it because you really have no say one way or the other.
Lil' Newb makes good customs. This is the best of his good customs, and so I nominated it. I decided that there needed to be more customs in the Halls and that wasn't going to happen unless some nominations came in. If anyone is dealing in politics here it's YOU. I just wanted to nominate a custom of my choosing and your in here rallying against it because you THINK that I MAY have nominated for some kind of ill gotten cause of uplifting Newb... :roll:

P.S. This isn't my cheerleader we're talking about. It's Newb's So that analogy makes no sense.

[InfinityMax]

Ach! Choking... under.. snake's... cynicism...

For the love of Mike, Shakey, enough with the righteous outrage. Newb's stuff didn't get nominated because Truth is 'showing him love.' It got nominated because Truth believes it is good. If you don't like the figure, present an argument against it (which you did). If you have a custom you can recommend, nominate it. Politics has nothing to do with this, at least for me, and I am pretty damned sure about Truth.

Truth knows Newb has a lot of good customs. He wanted to draw attention to them, not because Newb is tight with management, but because people looking for customs might really enjoy his stuff. So he found one and nominated it, because we're kind of opposed to nominating an entire gallery.

We don't run around here picking our friends and saying, 'let's get your stuff in the Halls!' If your work gets nominated here, it won't be because we like you.

The most ironic thing here is that, as far as I can tell, you're also in a position to enjoy some favoritism. If someone nominates one of your customs, are you going to ask that it be withdrawn because people like you?

[shakey_snake]

f anyone is dealing in politics here it's YOU. I just wanted to nominate a custom of my choosing and your in here rallying against it because you THINK that I MAY have nominated for some kind of ill gotten cause of uplifting Newb... :roll:So far, our conversation hasn't had much of anything to do with newb's card. I posted whwat I thought about it, nobody's responed to that part of my post, yet.

This mostly has to do with the halls in general. I've said what I've needed to say, so now I'm out. No sense in making this go on longer than it has to.

[truth]

f anyone is dealing in politics here it's YOU. I just wanted to nominate a custom of my choosing and your in here rallying against it because you THINK that I MAY have nominated for some kind of ill gotten cause of uplifting Newb... :roll:So far, our conversation hasn't had much of anything to do with newb's card. I posted whwat I thought about it, nobody's responed to that part of my post, yet.

This mostly has to do with the halls in general. I've said what I've needed to say, so now I'm out. No sense in making this go on longer than it has to.

hehe I must have over looked it thinking it was part of your sig because of the seperation line.

I agree he could revisit this name and come out with something better IMHO. And the font is a little funky (I can help you with this if you like Newb). But I don't really see an issue with her Kinetic shield ability. I guess I'm just not too understanding of these "spirit of the game" arguments. Or at the very least not in this case. Creators are forced to get more and more innovative as we have more and more offical and custom releases taking out ideas.

[LilNewbie]

...

And I think the card lacks the polish that Halls worthy units have.
The Special text should be narrower and larger, and I still think Kenetic influence goes against the "spirit of the game" by having a negative effect, rather than a positive one, and other than in name doesn't fit with the character.

Thanks for the comments, Shakey. If anyone has a font that is included in Paint Shop Pro that will look better for the ability text please let me know. I've checked several of them and this was the best of the fonts. I would redo my cards if a font was found to be better. On the fact of postive versus negative, there are several cards that do negative things to the units (The stare...don't roll any defense for one.) Not sure why creators have to fall into this mindset of never breaking the mold. My goal is to have abilities that are not hard to track during the game and are easy to use. You shoot/attack Minerva, roll one less attack die (to a minimum of 1.) Pretty simple.

Just as a side note, I never create stuff with getting them in the Halls as a thought. My creations are either created by realizing their isn't a figure that does X or Y. Also sometimes the figures themselves drive their own creation (e.g. The Nephilim.) If something gets in the Halls, awesome! If not, doesn't mean it's not a good idea or great unit it just didn't fit the Halls criteria.

Newb.

[shakey_snake]

The Special text should be narrower and largerI wasn't meaning the font so much as the text block. Although, the fon't should probably be a size bigger or so, and extend closer to the bottom of the card. The top and left margins around the text block should be a bit wider.

These where mistakes I made on my first cards at HQ that I learned from, so I'm just sharing the knowledge.

[truth]

The Special text should be narrower and largerI wasn't meaning the font so much as the text block. Although, the fon't should probably be a size bigger or so, and extend closer to the bottom of the card. The top and left margins around the text block should be a bit wider.

These where mistakes I made on my first cards at HQ that I learned from, so I'm just sharing the knowledge.

Yeah I guess not so much the font now that I look at it. I think what you need to do is look for the leading function in PSP. Again if you need more help with this let me know. But either way that's a minor thing that can easily be fixed when the time comes.

[skyknight]

So just a quick question, is it the look of the card that gets you into the halls or the content of the card? If it is the latter it kinda sucks though I understand how you would want nice looking cards in the halls, but it does kinda limit on who's getting in. Pretty much if you are not a computer whiz, it ain't happenin, correct?

[netherspirit]

If someone makes an awesome card with HSToolkit I am sure that one of the other custom creators (myself included) that have the abilities and the tools to make better looking cards will spruce it up for them.

The only problem is that HSTookit cards tend to get overlooked because of the way they look.

[shakey_snake]

So just a quick question, is it the look of the card that gets you into the halls or the content of the card?From my understanding, Both. The unit needs to be solid, interesting, well worded and unified, but the card can't be sloppy, either.

[skyknight]

Thanks for the answer guys, it was a legit question, not me tryin to be a putz. I am tryin to work on my computer skills but I have a long way to go though I am learning slowly.

[ArchonShiva]

Actually, I seem to recall Truth redid the cards for some of the early nominees... So looks aren't all this is about, but by the time you get inducted, they have to reach a certaion standard, which apparently could be called "Ready to print and play without your friends commenting about the ugly card".

[Grungebob]

Actually, I seem to recall Truth redid the cards for some of the early nominees... So looks aren't all this is about, but by the time you get inducted, they have to reach a certaion standard, which apparently could be called "Ready to print and play without your friends commenting about the ugly card".And on that note, I don't see anything wrong with Lilnewbs card visually. It is clean crisp and easy to read. Certainly not "sloppy". I find that nitpicking minor details such as text box position is useless to the mission of the Halls which is to showcase great customs.

[ArchonShiva]

And on that note, I don't see anything wrong with Lilnewbs card visually. It is clean crisp and easy to read. Certainly not "sloppy". I find that nitpicking minor details such as text box position is useless to the mission of the Halls which is to showcase great customs.I don't really see anything wrong with Newbies card visually -- I was offering input on the discussion itself. In thuis case, I don't feel Newbie's card needs to be redone by someone else.

[InfinityMax]

I don't think there's a reason to redo the card. Graphically, it's great. It looks pretty damned close to official.

But I don't really like Mass Reduction. I know Newb has done some awesome stuff, but I'm not loving this one. I don't see a need for this power - it seems almost like a workaround ability, a way to cheat the system and chomp Krug.

Newb, sorry man, but I'm voting 'no' on this one.

[Grungebob]

Where is Kark lately??

[InfinityMax]

Who made the Anubian Bodyguard? That thing is great.

[daevablacc]

But I don't really like Mass Reduction. I know Newb has done some awesome stuff, but I'm not loving this one. I don't see a need for this power - it seems almost like a workaround ability, a way to cheat the system and chomp Krug.
I see what you mean, but aren't most special abilities a way to alter the system? Take Dead Eye Dan for instance. I think that as long as she is priced accordingly she works.

[Karkadinn]

I'm here! :) I've just been formulating my thoughts on the nomination.
I do agree that Minerva's card could do with a little tweaking, but also that it's not enough to really be a significant problem or barrier.
I like the concept behind the size reduction power, but I think it has too many mechanical/thematic issues, what with it not taking into account the actual number plugged in next to the size category, and the whole LOS/actual size of the mini stuff. So I'd vote this a no, but very reluctantly as I love the concept behind it. I just don't think it can really be workable due to practical limitations.

[truth]

Okay then, two votes no kills it. Moving on.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10001/Blix_copy.jpg

Blix is a very strong showing from Grungebob. Like most of Grungebob's cards I was in awe of his creativity in developing special abilites.

[shakey_snake]

I do like the first and third powers alot.

[Turtleboy]

Newbs card gets a thumbs up from me, to be in the Halls.

[InfinityMax]

I have always really liked Blix, especially, as Snake said, the first and third abilities. The annoying performance thing opens up too many questions, I think. You roll Blix's defense dice, right? But what if Blix is on a higher level than the original target - does he get more dice? And what if he is on a lower level - does the attacker get more dice? Do you announce your intent to use Blix before or after the attack dice are rolled?

[truth]

I have always really liked Blix, especially, as Snake said, the first and third abilities. The annoying performance thing opens up too many questions, I think. You roll Blix's defense dice, right? But what if Blix is on a higher level than the original target - does he get more dice? And what if he is on a lower level - does the attacker get more dice? Do you announce your intent to use Blix before or after the attack dice are rolled?

It says on the card you announce it before... another question though. Does Blix then take the wounds if you get through? Or does the orginal target take the wounds he just got a 5 defense borrowed from blix?

[reapersaurus]

I'm here! :) I've just been formulating my thoughts on the nomination.
I do agree that Minerva's card could do with a little tweaking, but also that it's not enough to really be a significant problem or barrier.
I like the concept behind the size reduction power, but I think it has too many mechanical/thematic issues, what with it not taking into account the actual number plugged in next to the size category, and the whole LOS/actual size of the mini stuff. So I'd vote this a no, but very reluctantly as I love the concept behind it. I just don't think it can really be workable due to practical limitations.I was wondering what your take would be. :)

I probably would have voted yes to Minerva, due to the originality of the power.
Yes, those kinds of powers are problematic from a "it doesn't ACTUALLY change the figure size for LOS, adjacency, etc" angle, but I also feel that it is important not to unduly-restrict customs creators to some kind of so-simple-it-requires-no-new-thinking bludgeon.

I think we all realize there are only so many powers that can be done with zero impact to the base rules. And further, many of those have already been done, by the designers if not other fans.

So when someone comes up with something that is cool, works mechanically (even excepting a few imperfect niggles that are easy enough to play thru), and is thematic and balanced, I hope those cards won't be summarily dismissed just because they stretch the base ruleset a tad.

Myself, I think the base ruleset SHOULD be stretched.

It could use some more creativity than just "if all movement is on a road, move 3 spaces more" and "you may sight from the red dot on the bridge" etc etc
__________________

Abnout Blix - I have always liiked this custom, and championed the perfect elegance and simplicity of the Unicycle power.

I agree that anytime a unit can substitute his own defense for someone else, it becomes a problem that must be addressed with rules text. :(
See the discussion on the 2-shield protector unit (that was just in this thread earlier, right?)

And on a different take - the fig for Blix:
What is it? Where can you get it? Do you know of a fig that is easier for other HS fans to get if they were interested?
What about the possibility of making a Blix card with the new HorrorClix deadly clown fig that we all should be able to readily get?
I'd love if this model was more attainable for everyone to open up a custom unit for more people to play.....

edit - just found Gbob's preference to a playable mini, too: My opinion is that the unit should be playable. That means that there needs to be an obtainable mini, pwers that do not leave too many questions and do not break the game. Points and stats that are reasonable etc..Oh - and I think the You n the Blix card, 2nd power, shouldn;t be capitalized.

And reading the discussion on Shieldwalker 7000, and how Kark said the ability wasn't unique or necessarily creative, than why is Blix Halls-worthy?
Blix is a combination of a shielding-power like SW7000's, and DW7000's blow-up ability done better, and the afore-mentioned-awesome-yet-very-small Unicycle power.

It is very hard to distinguish between the Halls-worthiness of efforts like Minerva, Doc Savage's great work (Draconians), netherspirit's Shieldwalker 7000, and Blix.

[Jason]

Blix could be a monster if surrounded by Raelin and ranged squads. Imagine the damage some AE could do having someone nearby who can roll defense at 7 or 8 as they pick off the enemy. I'd draft him alot

[reapersaurus]

Who made the Anubian Bodyguard? That thing is great.wait a minute - as I remember, the Anubian Bodyguard had already been discussed, voted on, and entered into the Halls.

What happened to that?

[shakey_snake]

To me, Blix would be a shoe in if he only had the 1st and 3rd powers. You guys have heard me say it before, and I don't want to sound like a broken record, but not all customs have to have or even should have 3 powers.

Any offical unit that has three powers has one of the following: flying, slither, lava resistance or Snow and Ice Enhanced Movement.

[truth]

I think that the annoying preformace is very cool... but prehaps it should read that Blix's defense isn't altered in any way when rolling defense for annoying preformance and should specify who takes wounds if the attack gets through.

[shakey_snake]

I think that the annoying preformace is very cool... but prehaps it should read that Blix's defense isn't altered in any way when rolling defense for annoying preformance and should specify who takes wounds if the attack gets through.I liked the ability, but on the Shieldwalker card.
Blix is good enough without it.

[reapersaurus]

I think that the annoying preformace is very cool... but prehaps it should read that Blix's defense isn't altered in any way when rolling defense for annoying preformance and should specify who takes wounds if the attack gets through.you mean... like a "Special Defense" ability? ;) *big ironic wink*

To me, Blix would be a shoe in if he only had the 1st and 3rd powers. You guys have heard me say it before, and I don't want to sound like a broken record, but not all customs have to have or even should have 3 powers. There are so many character ideas that would not be close to satisfying on custom units if they were limited to 2 abilities.

We are NOT making official units, that are targeted towards a 10-year old demographic.
Likewise, we should NOT be handcuffed by official unit limitations.

I am adamantly opposed to denying a worthy custom entrance to the Halls based strictly on the number of abilities it has basis.

[truth]

AFAIK Blix was the orginal card to have that special defense ability not the shieldwalker. So to keep him out for that is just backwards.

The figure is readily available it's from Yugi-Oh it's called Crass Clown I believe.

[shakey_snake]

There are so many character ideas that would not be close to satisfying on custom units if they were limited to 2 abilities.

We are NOT making official units, that are targeted towards a 10-year old demographic.
Likewise, we should NOT be handcuffed by official unit limitations.I understand this point of view. Some more complex things, like "gift of magic"
figures probably require more than two. However, I do think that often times, someone will have 2 really good characters, but instead they have one overpowered one. I mean, look at how much whitespace Syvarris and Alastair McDirk have on their card. You rarely see customs like that. Yet those units are still a blast to play with because of how they work with other units.
I am adamantly opposed to denying a worthy custom entrance to the Halls based strictly on the number of abilities it has basis.Your not trying to pull a Jason on me here are you? :P

[netherspirit]

AFAIK Blix was the orginal card to have that special defense ability not the shieldwalker. So to keep him out for that is just backwards.

That's probably true, but AFAIK, Sheildwalker 7000 was the first one to specifically say "special defense". ;)

To stay on topic, I like Blix. Very thematic, and I am ALL about thematic.

[truth]

AFAIK Blix was the orginal card to have that special defense ability not the shieldwalker. So to keep him out for that is just backwards.

That's probably true, but AFAIK, Sheildwalker 7000 was the first one to specifically say "special defense". ;)

To stay on topic, I like Blix. Very thematic, and I am ALL about thematic.

heh, I wasn't trying to detract from your unit. I just didn't want to see GBs not make it because of some idea that it's unoriginal.

[netherspirit]

AFAIK Blix was the orginal card to have that special defense ability not the shieldwalker. So to keep him out for that is just backwards.

That's probably true, but AFAIK, Sheildwalker 7000 was the first one to specifically say "special defense". ;)

To stay on topic, I like Blix. Very thematic, and I am ALL about thematic.

heh, I wasn't trying to detract from your unit. I just didn't want to see GBs not make it because of some idea that it's unoriginal.

I know. :)

[InfinityMax]

I like the originality if Blix, and if we could figure out how to clarify the performance ability (and GB goes for it), I'm all for adding it to the Halls.

[Grungebob]

Hey Blix is up!! Ok Annoying performance is supposed to work like this:

One of your own dudes is near Blix. He gets targetted. You announce that you are going to use Blix's annoying performance to make the shooter so angry that he decides to shoot at Blix instead. The attack is resolved against blix, with all noemal attacking proceedures followed. See he is supposed to be juggling and heckling and drawing fire.

YES there are issues with the wording of the power. I have known this for a while, but since I knew how it worked I didn't see the need to fix it. I would love to hear some ideas on how to make it work with simple Heroscape language.. Chaoschild?????

[shakey_snake]

If an unengaged freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is attacked, Blix is attacked instead.

[Grungebob]

If an unengaged freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is attacked, Blix is attacked instead.That is good, but it should be optional.

If an unengaged freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is the target of an attack, You may choose Blix to become the target of the attack instead.

[ChaosChild]

That doesn't take into account that the friendly fig can be engaged and still be attacked by a ranged attack.

I am working on this but it is not going to be easy to get the proper order of things in heroscape language (existing heroscape language,anyways).

Should be a challenge (challenge=fun).

[Grungebob]

That doesn't take into account that the friendly fig can be engaged and still be attacked by a ranged attack.

I am working on this but it is not going to be easy to get the proper order of things in heroscape language (existing heroscape language,anyways).

Should be a challenge (challenge=fun).

If a freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is the target of an attack from a range greater than 1, You may choose Blix to become the target of the attack instead.

[ChaosChild]

Here's my first draft.

Annoying Performance
Before attack dice are rolled for an attack against a friendly figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix by a figure that is not adjacent, you may choose to have Blix defend instead of that figure.

[shakey_snake]

That doesn't take into account that the friendly fig can be engaged and still be attacked by a ranged attack.Yeah, I kinda figured that maybe that for simplicity's sake, that didn't matter so much.

[Grungebob]

How about:

If a freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is the target of an attack from an attacking figure who is not adjacent, You may choose Blix to become the target of the attack instead

[ChaosChild]

How about:

If a freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is the target of an attack from an attacking figure who is not adjacent, You may choose Blix to become the target of the attack instead

The problem I see is that "is the target of an attack" does not specify that you need to declare Blix as the defender before the roll.

[ChaosChild]

Here's my first draft.

Annoying Performance
Before attack dice are rolled for an attack against a friendly figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix by a figure that is not adjacent, you may choose to have Blix defend instead of that figure.

The more times I read my first draft, the more I like it. Even though the sentence is a little long, every thing is there.

And don't forget about my suggestion for Unicycle.

Unicycle
When counting spaces for movement, ignore any space that is lower than the previous space.


It will be interesting to see what others think.

[Grungebob]

If a freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is the target of an attack from an attacking figure who is not adjacent, You may choose Blix to become the target of the attack instead of that figure. The choice to use Blix's Annoying Performance must be made before the attack dice are rolled.

[ChaosChild]

That will work. I would have to check the rules and cards to see if that is good heroscape language though. I'll do that later. Tired and rules don't mix well.

It will give a chance for others to chime in.

[reapersaurus]

So - how much discussion about refining the unit should be in the Halls thread, and when does it go to the creator thread?
I've always wondered about when that determination is made. :lol:

FWIW, I prefer the wording that starts with "If a friendly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces..."

And GB -you keep putting a capitalised You after the comma. :)

[endpawn]

If a freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is the target of an attack from an attacking figure who is not adjacent, You may choose Blix to become the target of the attack instead of that figure. The choice to use Blix's Annoying Performance must be made before the attack dice are rolled.

Must Blix be in range of the attacking figure?

[InfinityMax]

Works for me. Basically, you just shift the target to Blix, including all the bonuses and whatever else.

So my vote goes to an unqualified yes, once we see a final card.

[Grungebob]

If a freindly figure that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Blix is the target of an attack from an attacking figure who is not adjacent, You may choose Blix to become the target of the attack instead of that figure. The choice to use Blix's Annoying Performance must be made before the attack dice are rolled.

Must Blix be in range of the attacking figure?I thought about this alot and decided that no he did not. In fact I decided that LOS wouldn't even be required. If the defender wants to use blix as a meat shield then he just says so. It is the player's imagination that fills in the blanks. I imagine him doing juggling acts or popping up from behind a hill using spring loaded legs.

Thanks Reaper, that "You" must be left over from a previous version.

[truth]

Made the disscussed changes to Blix:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10001/Blix_copy.jpg

[Grungebob]

Very cool. Thanks Truth!!

[Annerios]

Made the disscussed changes to Blix:


You have one little thing missed there: the spelling of "friendly".

[Grungebob]

that would be my fault Ugh!!

[truth]

well I'm at work now so that'll have to wait until tonight.

[Karkadinn]

I also give Blix a yes. Cute theme, a couple of original but not too complicated powers... overall a very solid card. I see a typo in Annoying Performance though. ;P

[reapersaurus]

I'll vote Blix in, with a couple statements:

There is 1 original ability on the card, AFAIK : Unicycle, which I have always thought is a better-than-official-designer power.

And I wish a better, more-Heroscapey figure was used on the card. And I wouldn;t know where anyone could get it of they wanted to.

How would the new Horroclix insane clown look on the card?

There is enough solid mechanics, strategy, and abilities-that-match-the-good-theme of the character, to use this card as an example of custom units to the Halls perusers.

[truth]

Fixed typo on Blix.

[Grungebob]

I'll vote Blix in, with a couple statements:

There is 1 original ability on the card, AFAIK : Unicycle, which I have always thought is a better-than-official-designer power.

And I wish a better, more-Heroscapey figure was used on the card. And I wouldn;t know where anyone could get it of they wanted to.

How would the new Horroclix insane clown look on the card?

There is enough solid mechanics, strategy, and abilities-that-match-the-good-theme of the character, to use this card as an example of custom units to the Halls perusers.Masochistic embrace you can call original as well, since you are counting. annoying performance was a version of things that had been floating around for a while.

I do love that new Horrorclix fig and when I see it I might be enticed to change it yet I have envisioned this whole backstory about this race of circus performers from outer space that is kinda cool.

[shakey_snake]

Can Masochistic embrace only affect adjacent figs? If I kill a squad figure, can I blow up blix and wound 3 more adjacent squad figs?


[edit] When can we get the other 5 units up in the halls?
Are the pics broken right now because of the new server move?

[Fallen Templar]

[edit] When can we get the other 5 units up in the halls?
Are the pics broken right now because of the new server move?

yea agree the hall thread is imcomplete but the gallery is set up

[Doc_Savage]

I am happy to see Blix in. I think the powers are good and the theme is well carried through all the power names and the figure.

[reapersaurus]

Ya, the Halls display thread needs to be updated, and added to. :(

And didn;t Common_Hero make the Anubain BodyGuard?
Wasn't he inducted into the Halls? :shrug:

[Grungebob]

Anubian Bodyguard was in the Halls. Can't find the card for it. Who is taking charge of the Halls display thread? Does it need to be redone? HQ was messed up and most of the thread was not accessible.

[reapersaurus]

I was assuming you were, GB, since you have the first post in it.
I am not an admin, and neither is karkadinn, so we can't really do much with it.

It looks fine, it is just missing the images being changed to the Galleries here, and the additional units added.
I will check at home to see if I have the Anubian Watchdog card.
It would be a lot easier if any of the Admins that still have access to HQ could just grab the thread over there.....? Or is that down now?

[Grungebob]

HQ is gone and the thread was all jacked up anyway. I know, because I went there and salvaged as much Halls stuff as I could. Does anybody have the posts that went with the missing units? I believe I have all of them in there except the Anubian Bodyguard. The units are all in the folder at least.

[shakey_snake]

Can Masochistic embrace only affect adjacent figs? If I kill a squad figure, can I blow up blix and wound 3 more adjacent squad figs?

[Grungebob]

Can Masochistic embrace only affect adjacent figs? If I kill a squad figure, can I blow up blix and wound 3 more adjacent squad figs?Nope

[reapersaurus]

I was wondering if there might be able to be made a version of this Blix card that uses the cool-as-hell HorrorClix clown fig that's coming out in mass-production soon?
I would think the prepainted plastic of HorrorClix blends better with Heroscape figures than that Yu-Gi-Oh figure. :shrug:

Just as an alternate card (not the inducted card), for people who like this unit but want to play it with that soon-to-be-everywhere cool figure?

[Grungebob]

I love that new figure and will be getting it as soon as it comes out. I was thinking of using it for Poxy, my other Clown custom since I don't have a figure for him.

[Annerios]

I was wondering if there might be able to be made a version of this Blix card that uses the cool-as-hell HorrorClix clown fig that's coming out in mass-production soon?

This is what I was planning. I like that figure better and the Blix card looks like a fun one to try out.

[Parduz]

Just to tell you that the BestOf page lacks of all pictures but the first 3.
pls Delete this post if you already know that or when you fix it.

[reapersaurus]

I was wondering if there might be able to be made a version of this Blix card that uses the cool-as-hell HorrorClix clown fig that's coming out in mass-production soon?

This is what I was planning. I like that figure better and the Blix card looks like a fun one to try out.right - and if truth is up for it, it would be a cool alternate card to have that HorrorClix clown on this Hall of Valhalla card.
Of course, I'm volunteering his efforts for custom fan's benefit, but hey - what are demanding judges for? :lol:

[Euryon]

OT: Ive probably missed the pertinent discussion; but were the newer inductee's into the halls (which were updated in the original reposting when this site opened) removed on purpose?
Im not going to throw a hissy fit, but id be interested as to know why. If there IS an answer in this thread, just point me to a rough page number, otherwise, sorry for the intrusion.

[Karkadinn]

Surely that has to be a mistake, not purposeful. o.O

[shakey_snake]

Can Masochistic embrace only affect adjacent figs? If I kill a squad figure, can I blow up blix and wound 3 more adjacent squad figs?Nope to what question?

[Rhydderch]

OT: Ive probably missed the pertinent discussion; but were the newer inductee's into the halls (which were updated in the original reposting when this site opened) removed on purpose?
Im not going to throw a hissy fit, but id be interested as to know why. If there IS an answer in this thread, just point me to a rough page number, otherwise, sorry for the intrusion.

Based on the discussions here I think the newer cards were left out because of technical difficulties. As I recall your card was included in the set until they decided to re-make the Halls thread here (2nd incarnation on HSers). Several cards disappeared at that point and more recently many of the older cards have been unavailable too. I'm sure these problems will be addressed when the judges get a chance and you will find your card back in the Halls :)

Just do not ask me when the display thread will be fixed. I've wondered about it myself. I know the judges have pushed for some new entries into the Halls recently so maybe they have been busy with that.

PS: There was a short discussion about re-evaluating which cards should remain in the halls in order to ensure the customs in the Halls were *still* the best customs. I believe the judges nixed the idea because they felt the Halls should be a time capsule of sorts that would not only show us the best customs overall but also the evolution of the best customs.

[shakey_snake]

OT: Ive probably missed the pertinent discussion; but were the newer inductee's into the halls (which were updated in the original reposting when this site opened) removed on purpose?
Im not going to throw a hissy fit, but id be interested as to know why. If there IS an answer in this thread, just point me to a rough page number, otherwise, sorry for the intrusion.G-Bob is lazy.

[Rhydderch]

GB:

Here is the Anubian Watchdog card:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10052/Anubian_Watch_Dog.jpg

I'm not sure if it is the latest version. Hopefully it helps. Also do you still have the Monks of Doom? I have not seen that one in the Halls either.

[shakey_snake]

wow, he's awesome.

[InfinityMax]

And he is SO much fun. The one that really kicks ass, though, is the metal bodyguard. I forget his name, but he tore through some serious opponents like a hot knife through butter last time we played him.

[truth]

So it's kind of been customary to nominate units that have been available for awhile... but I just can't help myself on this one.

I want to nominate TB's Knoll:
http://aycu11.webshots.com/image/1890/1595626966715012696_fs.jpg

I made a version with a more readily available figure and fixed what I thought was a bit of a varation from offical wording:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10001/Knoll_copy.jpg


I couldn't remeber what general TB had him assigned to because the card image went down for a little while... but I think he works as either.

Anyhow I'm in love with the card. It's perfect for the 75 point range! It's low enough cost that it makes you say: I gotta try this sneaky little guy out. He nails his theme mechaniclly and he does it in a flawlessly simple fashion. He reminds me of James Vydar in that respect.

[Gambit]

awsome card, the second ones better stated, but i like the fig from the first one way more

[truth]

awsome card, the second ones better stated, but i like the fig from the first one way more

Yes no doubt the fig for the first one is cooler. It's just I don't have the kind of money needed to invest in Rackham figs. Nor do I have the painting skills to match the quality shown on the demo used for the card pic.

[Karkadinn]

Holy crap. When did Turtleboy start producing interesting, playable customs? @_@ I actually like this one. Discovered and Stealth Kill are really interesting specials. You should probably leave it up to TB as to the general and figure choice, but I do like very much that you prettified it to get rid of those niggling little details of format, like the font thing and all.

[Turtleboy]

Id like to nominate a card by atmospro

http://upload4.postimage.org/442322_e50883f1ab3846f6c686f9536b2a16e1/cerunnos_thewildhunt.jpg

Wow is all i have to say.

This guy has a fresh new ability mixed with an offical one to make an Impact.

He can brawl with some of the more tougher guys, and can run around hitting the weaker ones.

His two abilitys make him not over powerd, as they wont mix.

I'll give this guy a thumbs up all the way.

[Rhydderch]

Knoll is definitely one of my favorites. Turtleboy has produced several other quality works Kark. Its too bad HQ went down because some of his later customs were really cool and well-thought out.

For those who are not sure the original figure Turtleboy used was the Assassin Mercenary from Rackham Miniatures:

http://www.rackham-store.com/boutique_us/fiche_produit.cfm?type=633&ref=UKMESP01&code_lg=lg_us&pag=1&num=22&tri=0&marq=0

And yes as Truth said Rackham miniatures are VERY expensive. I recently found a store which carries them and while they are have some of the coolest figures I have ever seen they are also way out of my price range. I think some figures were 60+ dollars!

By the way Truth why is it customary to wait until a figure has been around awhile? I would guess it is because of a test of time of sorts but it does seem that the card itself should still be the primary factor in the nomination. By which I mean to say good call in nominating Knoll despite the short duration he has been around =)

[reapersaurus]

Oh, man.
And here I was working on a streak of like 4, 5 or 6 straight votes of approval, I think.

I will give my reviews of each unit in their respective creator threads, since they've been nominated.

As for why I wouldn't vote them for the Halls, in brief:

Knoll - I like the creativity of the abilities, but from a sheer power standpoint, a 3/3 hero that is supposed to be an assassin isnt going to assassinate much. For 75 points, I feel he needs to be stronger to compete with other 75- squads and heroes. He moves cool, but if his powers are centered around moving, he should be a courier/runner character, not an assassin.

Assassins assassinate.
Runners run.

atmospro's is SO new, and I am open to playtesting showing my opinion to be wrong, but I am very concerned about the number of free attacks this guy's going to get, unless I'm reading it wrong.
Any time another teammate wounds someone, than if he's within 2 spaces, he gets a free attack? Wow - this guy and Krav Maga will result in 5 attacks per turn, on average, I'd guess. This power would probably allow a force to kill Krug, Sgt Drake, or Braxas within 2 turns. He'd slaughter any squads armies that have low defense, waltzing thru orcs and vipers merrily, I would surmise.

More in atmospro's thread (the disengage problem), since I think most reviews should be in the creator threadfs, and just voting should be in here.

[InfinityMax]

I've never seen Knoll before, and I'm impressed. I like it a bunch. It gets my thumbs-up. Looks like a ton of fun to play, and really hard to pin down - every time you hit him, he runs like hell.

[Karkadinn]

Hm... it suddenly occurs to me though, wouldn't he totally break the 'race to the outpost' scenario though? Every time you hurt him he'd move closer to the outpost and out of your range... you'd basically have to take him down in one or two shots.

[Turtleboy]

Most specials are ment to break the rules :wink:

[truth]

Hm... it suddenly occurs to me though, wouldn't he totally break the 'race to the outpost' scenario though? Every time you hurt him he'd move closer to the outpost and out of your range... you'd basically have to take him down in one or two shots.

Intelligent players would recognize this and outlaw him in that scenario.

[shakey_snake]

Or, Discovered could be limited to adjacent attacks. He'd be great for 65-ish points then.

[Grungebob]

I've never seen Knoll before, and I'm impressed. I like it a bunch. It gets my thumbs-up. Looks like a ton of fun to play, and really hard to pin down - every time you hit him, he runs like hell.Yah he is an awesome custom and I want to put him on the table July 1st!!!

[Grungebob]

OT: Ive probably missed the pertinent discussion; but were the newer inductee's into the halls (which were updated in the original reposting when this site opened) removed on purpose?
Im not going to throw a hissy fit, but id be interested as to know why. If there IS an answer in this thread, just point me to a rough page number, otherwise, sorry for the intrusion.

Based on the discussions here I think the newer cards were left out because of technical difficulties. As I recall your card was included in the set until they decided to re-make the Halls thread here (2nd incarnation on HSers). Several cards disappeared at that point and more recently many of the older cards have been unavailable too. I'm sure these problems will be addressed when the judges get a chance and you will find your card back in the Halls :)
Just do not ask me when the display thread will be fixed. I've wondered about it myself. I know the judges have pushed for some new entries into the Halls recently so maybe they have been busy with that.

PS: There was a short discussion about re-evaluating which cards should remain in the halls in order to ensure the customs in the Halls were *still* the best customs. I believe the judges nixed the idea because they felt the Halls should be a time capsule of sorts that would not only show us the best customs overall but also the evolution of the best customs.All the customs are in the Halls now except Blix. The only thing lacking is the descriptions on a few which will be added. It would not have mattered one bit because they were all linked to HQ from the beginning and those links are dead. Fortunately we have them all in their folder here now and we will rebuild the Halls.

[InfinityMax]

Thanks for all your work on this, GB.

[Rhydderch]

Hm... it suddenly occurs to me though, wouldn't he totally break the 'race to the outpost' scenario though? Every time you hurt him he'd move closer to the outpost and out of your range... you'd basically have to take him down in one or two shots.

You could also lock him down with Major X17 or a Gladiatron. Figures such as Grimnak or Sudema could also kill Knoll in one shot without risking wounding him. Knoll would likely break that scenario but I wouldn't say he would totally break it. You just need to draft well against him.

That said, I kind of agree that it might be better to just ban him on that scenario since he is so darned hard to pin down. I just wanted to provide some alternate ways to handle him =)

Oh and thanks for getting the Halls back in shape GB!

[netherspirit]

All the customs are in the Halls now except Blix.

What about mine? :(

[Grungebob]

All the customs are in the Halls now except Blix.

What about mine? :( Uhm, could you be more specific? I can't recall whether you had any inducted or not.

[netherspirit]

All the customs are in the Halls now except Blix.

What about mine? :( Uhm, could you be more specific? I can't recall whether you had any inducted or not.

Ouch, that hurts...I guess my units aren't memorable enough...you even nominated one of them. :P

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-shieldgolem.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/heroscape-dragonsiblings.jpg

[Grungebob]

Yes but were they officially voted in? Of course I remember them!! And why is it that I am no longer involved with the Halls but still end up carrying the brunt of all of these details.... I swear!!!

[Grungebob]

BTW It was Common Hero who did the Anubian correct?

[InfinityMax]

Yes! That's it! Common Hero! I was trying to remember who made that one.

[netherspirit]

I'm pretty sure the sheildwalker got enough votes, but not sure about the siblings. This thread was crazy with other discussions going on and I think they may have been overlooked, I'm not too sure.

[Grungebob]

OK I'll put the shieldwalker in and the twins will go to vote.

[Euryon]

Thanks GBob, was wondering if id been thrown out or summat <_<

Yeah, shieldwalker is a definite HoV as far as my opinion matters (which is little really)
As for the twins... Hmmm. I wont use this as a place to discuss them to the minutae, but I think, as they are right now, I dont think theyre halls worthy.
I shall look for the critique and opine away there, though, if my feelings arent already discussed.

[Gambit]

i like the idea of having a squad where each members has a differnt ability

[Karkadinn]

Yes but were they officially voted in? Of course I remember them!! And why is it that I am no longer involved with the Halls but still end up carrying the brunt of all of these details.... I swear!!!

Probably because the actual Halls post is yours. That, and I have a crappy memory. I forgot my own age once. ;)

[Grungebob]

Page seven is where I got the impression that somebody wanted there to be a new Halls Display post done by somebody preferably a mod or judge. So I started the effort for that reason. It does appear to me that it would be better to have one of the judges do it so that you guys don't need to ask me about it all the time.

[shakey_snake]

One of the judges should quote your post, remove the containing quotes, and then you can delete your post.

[InfinityMax]

OK, I like the twins, and would induct them, but I have some questions.

1) Can we just put any dragon in there, or any dragon king or queen? Forcing players to select Charos is limiting. I know it's there for the back story, but I would rather see something a little more flexible.

2) Aelos' Water Affinity - shouldn't this read 'two water spaces on the same level'? I have these figures, and they're too big for a one-space base.

Other than those things, I would vote it in. I like it, and would use it. However, I would be interested to know if anyone has tested it - they seem a little pricey.

[netherspirit]

OK, I like the twins, and would induct them, but I have some questions.

1) Can we just put any dragon in there, or any dragon king or queen? Forcing players to select Charos is limiting. I know it's there for the back story, but I would rather see something a little more flexible.

2) Aelos' Water Affinity - shouldn't this read 'two water spaces on the same level'? I have these figures, and they're too big for a one-space base.

Other than those things, I would vote it in. I like it, and would use it. However, I would be interested to know if anyone has tested it - they seem a little pricey.

1) I could do that, but I like it being Charos. Does that mean you don't like Paramenio because of his Death Defy only being able to help the Greeks? I'm all for versatility but making them too versitile would be bad. I have them priced at 90 because with Charos they make a full 300. I just like it the way I have it, but am willing to change it...

2) I don't think thats necessary, I could just change it to "spaces" because according to the rules a figure can't be on non-level ground, so he would have to be on 2 water spaces to be in the water in the first place.

I haven't tested them...

[reapersaurus]

I just made a new thread, copying and slightly updating the stickied thread.
I will keep it updated, and add new posts for the new inductees (or other judges can) - we'll add new posts from now on since we're caught up with previous (pre HSers) inductees, I think.

If you want, GB, delete the thread you made, and sticky mine so I will maintain it.

[Fallen Templar]

3rd times a charm with the halls right guys

[InfinityMax]

Well, as far as Parmenio - I think that was kind of hosed, too. I know he's supposed to go with the Greeks, but why couldn't he benefit any Einar disciplined soldier? Marcus can help any soldier - not just Romans. Tornak helps orc warriors - not just blade gruts. Venoc Warlord can boost any unit with Frenzy. In some cases, the boosted figures ARE the only existing breed (the only orc warriors are blade gruts, for example), but the wording allows for the possibility that other cards may be created in the future.

Basically, while I am not opposed to having the back story help define the figure, I prefer that actual in-game effects not be limited to single characters. I haven't played Parmenio, partly because I don't like being forced to take specific figures to fully utilize him.

On a story-based argument, the twins may have been linked to Charos way back when, but things are different now. A Roman leader can help American soldiers; a giant snake leader can inspire elves; the dragon twins may be able to attach themselves to any available dragon monarch.

Of course, that story argument is just an excuse. I really would rather see these guys be able to use a wider array of figures, especially because there are several dragons you could use.

But it's your figure. I still like it, but would use it less with the Charos limitation. I reckon it's good enough to get my vote either way, though.

Oh, and you're completely right about the water space thing. My bad.

[ArchonShiva]

Well, as far as Parmenio - I think that was kind of hosed, too. I know he's supposed to go with the Greeks, but why couldn't he benefit any Einar disciplined soldier? Marcus can help any soldier - not just Romans. Tornak helps orc warriors - not just blade gruts. Venoc Warlord can boost any unit with Frenzy. In some cases, the boosted figures ARE the only existing breed (the only orc warriors are blade gruts, for example), but the wording allows for the possibility that other cards may be created in the future.Sacred Band is common, which is already a difference. And the Sacred Band are basically an incomplete unit -- half their powers are on Parmenio's card. Note that Disciplined Influence isn't too useful for anyone else either, though like Tornak it might eventually cover someone else.

The problem is, the Romans are too good to get Defy Death on top. But I can (remotely) imagine Sacred Band Archers getting Defy Death eventually (or as customs), whereas I don't think we'll get anyone else named Charos.

That being said, I'm partial to Dragon King serving Ullar. It's just as restrictive for now, but it keeps at least a door open.

[Rhydderch]

Well the main limitation of the two dragons is that their powers are situational so I think it is fine for them to only work with Charos. It may be slightly non-canon but then many of the cards in the Halls are =)

Also sorry to sideline the Dragon discussion a bit but did the Monks of Doom ever make it into the Halls? I thought they had been voted in or did the discussion about the proper cost for the monks derail the final vote?

[Grungebob]

OK, I like the twins, and would induct them, but I have some questions.

1) Can we just put any dragon in there, or any dragon king or queen? Forcing players to select Charos is limiting. I know it's there for the back story, but I would rather see something a little more flexible.

2) Aelos' Water Affinity - shouldn't this read 'two water spaces on the same level'? I have these figures, and they're too big for a one-space base.

Other than those things, I would vote it in. I like it, and would use it. However, I would be interested to know if anyone has tested it - they seem a little pricey.I mentioned the same thing before too about the dragons and Charos limitation.