minutemen + Taelord + Castle = broken?

[Tracar91]

We had a storm the castle game on new years day, and it struck me as waaayyy too strong for the castle defender to have 2 x minutemen starting on the castle parparets (20 high) + the taelord to watch over them.

Attack= 2 + they don't move 1 + hieght 1 + extreme hieght 1 + Taelord 1= 6 attack dice per minuteman 4 = 24 attack dice per turn.

I believe we are reading all the rules right, and if so how do you get anyone within 6 spaces of the door to knock it down?

By the way 2 on 1 defend the castle, 500 point armies, it was a slaughter.

[LilNewbie]

That can be a brutal force to reckon with but not impossible to beat.

If you know you are facing this army purchase ranged units that have greater than 6 range (Syv, Q9, DWs, etc.) If they can't reach you, all the dice in the world are not going to help. Also, some groups don't use the extreme height advantage but that is up to you. Drake is a perfect character to use since he is immmune to the MM's fire. He can scale the walls quickly and start elminating them in close-combat (where he can be scary vs. a 2 def.)

Newb.

[Aldin]

Dragons.

Between Braxas and Mimring you can handle a lot of 4th Mass. Takes away extreme height and potentially height as well while accounting for as many as eleven figures of the 4th Mass. As an alternative, Q9 with Laglor, Deadeye Dan and others can plink away from outside the 4th Mass' range.

~Aldin

[kenjib]

They do have a pretty weak range of 6. Do they hide behind the parapets well or is it possible to get line of sight on minutemen up there? There are lots of units that could take them out if so. Deadeye Dan would eat them for breakfast, regardless of defensive height bonuses, provided line of sight is possible.

[gamjuven]

i think it's broken. nobody can beat the taelord/4th mass/raelin combo. even when you choose units that can shoot from further away, ur still not gonna kill them all and get the flag in 12 turns. if ur talking about generically killing them, then perhaps they can eventually be beaten, but it would take a long time. don't forget that the 4th mass will frequently have double height on castles which means more defense and attack. having raelin up there as well just makes it ridiculous. i can pretty much guarantee that i won't be killed in a castle if i have that army.

although if u only have 2 squads of 4th mass then perhaps u could be beat. i was talking mroe about big pt games that can fit taelord, raelin, and a bunch of squads of 4th mass, like in the scenerio

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Syvarris tears up the Minutemen with range 9 and double attack. It's not fun to be the minutemen in that situation.
:evil:

[QBakies]

It's not broken, it's just a challenge. If you know you are storming a castle then you have to draft an army that can stand a better chance. Units with longer ranges, high movement, flying, etc. I like Sgt. Drake because you can't shoot him with normal attacks so getting him to the castle wall is much easier.

Also the four minutemen only get to shoot at four individuals/turn so they can be overwhelmed with numbers.

[markwars]

Saylind transporting Jotun to the top of that tower would be awesome.

[Tracar91]

I realize that the army can be beaten, and I had fun getting slaughtered, I just thought 24 attack dice per turn is a little extreme in this instance.

I guess I have more of a problem with the storming the castle senarios than with the castle defender army. In our game, the castle defender whined (he does that alot) about my original army (Laglor, Krav magna, Q9, Guilty) and so I re-drafted a army without range just to convince him of the extreme advantage a castle defender has in this game. I re-drafted Krug, Tornak, Grut orcs, Brunak, Utgar's FB (I forget his name) and Guilty. Krug got to the door, (Nerfed to 5 life , + only 1 auto shield against small and med) Broke it down, got to the taelord and took him out before dieing (I was more than happy with that for 120 points) but the minutemen basically took out everyone coming within range and once he wiped out Krug and tornak, I was done (no way to win).

Maybe I should ask what have you done to even out castle senarios?

[Stealth Dodge]

Kust use the Krav, it doesn't matter if they roll 100 dice as long as u roll 1 shield

[LilNewbie]

Was each side the same points? 500 points attacking vs. 500 points defending? In a siege scenario the attacker might need at least 1.5 times as many points as the defender to have a chance. Maybe take 750 attacking vs. his 500 defending next time. Did you win with your original army or did you redraft before playing?

Newb.

[Cavalier]

I realize that the army can be beaten, and I had fun getting slaughtered, I just thought 24 attack dice per turn is a little extreme in this instance.

I guess I have more of a problem with the storming the castle senarios than with the castle defender army. In our game, the castle defender whined (he does that alot) about my original army (Laglor, Krav magna, Q9, Guilty) and so I re-drafted a army without range just to convince him of the extreme advantage a castle defender has in this game. I re-drafted Krug, Tornak, Grut orcs, Brunak, Utgar's FB (I forget his name) and Guilty. Krug got to the door, (Nerfed to 5 life , + only 1 auto shield against small and med) Broke it down, got to the taelord and took him out before dieing (I was more than happy with that for 120 points) but the minutemen basically took out everyone coming within range and once he wiped out Krug and tornak, I was done (no way to win).

Maybe I should ask what have you done to even out castle senarios?
Maybe you should search :roll:

Searched on \Castle Seige\ Chose to search on all words:

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=4237

and

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=3948

and

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=3045

In other words, it's been discussed quite heavily and a little due dilligence will yield a wealth of info

[Jormi_Boced]

Very easy to outrange them.

[Aldin]

I realize that the army can be beaten, and I had fun getting slaughtered, I just thought 24 attack dice per turn is a little extreme in this instance.

I guess I have more of a problem with the storming the castle senarios than with the castle defender army. In our game, the castle defender whined (he does that alot) about my original army (Laglor, Krav magna, Q9, Guilty) and so I re-drafted a army without range just to convince him of the extreme advantage a castle defender has in this game. I re-drafted Krug, Tornak, Grut orcs, Brunak, Utgar's FB (I forget his name) and Guilty. Krug got to the door, (Nerfed to 5 life , + only 1 auto shield against small and med) Broke it down, got to the taelord and took him out before dieing (I was more than happy with that for 120 points) but the minutemen basically took out everyone coming within range and once he wiped out Krug and tornak, I was done (no way to win).

Maybe I should ask what have you done to even out castle senarios?

Well, range turns out to be THE issue. I guess I'm not surprised you lost when your opponent wouldn't let you play anything with a chance of winning. Attacking a castle is generally a job for long range units and fliers. An AE drop can demolish a 4th Mass castle defense. Drake can assault convincingly. Should you insist on conventional attack, Squads of Roman Archers can breach the door and units like the Nakitas can improve survivability through the portal. Lots of ways to do it. Defending can actually be tough if you aren't careful to prepare for several eventualities. You need some unit that can rally outside the walls if you are outranged, something to deal with dragons if they appear and some way to handle Minions because they are eviland deserve to die. Personally, I prefer the flexibility I have as a castle attacker much of the time.

~Aldin

[theats]

whats even worse is one squad of omnicron with taelord and double hight(20) i was nearly defeated, till mimring sniped em out. mimring is sweet o0n the castle wall, on the offensive side.

[DarkDino]

Minions!!!! YAY MINIONS!

(I loves me minions!)

[AbducteeLeader]

meh nothing is really broken, if you think minutemen with castle height is bad, you haven't seen anything, heres a classic combo that I don't see people mentioning much anymore:

Ae
Taelord
Finn
Marcus

With this combo of less then 500 points, you get a squad of 4 8 range 6 attack dice(without height or extreme height) with psuedo manuverbility. height is essentially garunteed with the ae, making it 4 attacks at 7 which ould be 28, or if you want to count extreme height and glyphs they reach an apex of 9 attack dice each. I've managed to get them up to 8 dice before, and from my experience, if an opponent lets you get your ae up to 7 or 8 dice, nothing that doesn't have some sort of defensive ability will live through more then a single volly of a potential of 36 damage. And lets not forget how the Ae's grenade has the highest non-infinite potential damage special in the game O_o.

[SilverBlade]

In our game, the castle defender whined (he does that alot) about my original army and so I re-drafted a army without range just to convince him of the extreme advantage a castle defender has in this game.

Are you serious?!? I would never redraft just because an opponent wants to whine about it. Understand, I'm a firm believer in giving a weaker player a handicap to keep the game interesting. Nothing is so boring than certain crushing defeat. But that's definately not the way. Adjust point values if you wish or provide another terrain advantage. One fix to the Taelord / MM problem is a theme scenerio. One side gets Utgar, one gets Jandar, neutral generals are up for grabs. Nothing scares me so much as Omnicrons, Taelord, Castle, and God forbid, an attack glyph. You're going to max out at up to 10 skulls and average 4 to 6! But I never mix Jandar and Utgar. It's like putting the Avengers with Brotherhood of Evil Mutants in a Marvel genre. A bigger problem I have is coming up with a castle scenerio that balances to point allowences of both sides only to have an attacker pick all flyers and the defender loses his biggest advantage.

But regardless, find a way to tell your opponent that he really needs to grow up.

[ASmiles]

I'm not sure what Finn is doing in this army. His attack bonus is only good for figures with a range of 1. Unless you plan on suiciding him and giving his spirit over to the AE.

[scorpiusx]

Q9 or DW 9000 can easily pick off MM after a little while. Both have good normal attack, and both have specials that are great when used right. Use queglix gun gor astray MM. Use explosion for clustered MM. Only bad thing about q9 is his queglix gun has a range of 6.

[AbducteeLeader]

I'm not sure what Finn is doing in this army. His attack bonus is only good for figures with a range of 1. Unless you plan on suiciding him and giving his spirit over to the AE.

you just gave your answer :P