GenCon 400 Point Army Discussion

[Buddy Lee]

I didn't see this as a specific topic so I'll start it here. Mods please feel free to merge, move, whatever this thread as you deem appropriate.

I trying to decide what 400 point army I would use at GenCon and I decided to try the following. I'm kinda a Vydar fan (anyone who read my Fan Fic will remember that. Man, I really need to dust that off.) So my thoughts were:

Army Core - Vydar Base: 270 Points

1 x MicroCorps Agents
1 x Gorrillanators
1 x Gladiatrons

This would form the base of the army. From there I decided to come up with several options

Option 1 - Orcs: 130 points
2 x Arrow Gruts
2 x Swog Riders

Option 2 - Vydar Heavy: 130 points
1 x Agent Carr
1 x Guilty McReech

Option 3 - Balance: 130 points
1 x Aubrien Archers
1 x Izumi Samurai

Option 4 - Hero Killer: 130 points
1 x Deadeye Dan
1 x Zettian Guards

Option 4 - Monks and Roaches: 130 points
1 x Shaolin Monks
1 x Marro Warriors

I have also picked a fair selection of my favorite armies to come up with other options, but those are the basics I'm starting with. I assume that in most of the tournies you keep the army you start with throughout the event. Correct?

Thoughts?

Also what other armies are people considering?

Buddy Lee

[Jandars_Hope]

Oh thats a tough decision, i'd probably pick the monks and roaches option because of the cloning ability and the monks shaolin assault attack! and for some reason when i use the marro warriors they seem to do really well!

[Teamski]

If I were you, I'd make sure I had more than just 1 of each common. If you loose just 1 figure out of a squad, that squad is considerably weaker for the remainder of the game, and you could loose turns if the squad is destroyed within the turn, something entirely possible. Having any less than 2 squads of any common is a BIG handicap.

I recommend you stick with a straight strategy with one 3x common set of squads, with possibly supporting heroes and range.

I think a really tough Vydar army would be:

Krav Maga=100
3x Mircro Corp Agents =300
------------
400

I think they would be tough as hell on the board. There's a whole lotta range and ability going on there....

-Ski

[Jandars_Hope]

Actually Ski u have a point! I hate the Krav Maga personally, cos my brother gets them and kiks my butt with them...so go with those! hehe

[Codeman]

Does any one know what map(s) they will be using at GenCon? Will we know before we get there?

[CornPuff]

Anyone have info on what the official games will be at gencon?
Point/Map/Scenario combos would be most appreciated
I thought Sandra posted some candidates at HQ, but I can't find it.

Anyway, I always draft for the map. That said, a nice army for maps like forsaken waters is Syvvaris, Grimnak, Tornak, Grutsx2

Maybe try Braxas and Nilfheim. Thats 395 points of pain they wont see coming

Or go WW2 style with AE, Drake, and Q9

Roman swarm style? Legionnairesx3, Marcus, Me-Burq-Sa, Syvvaris

X17, theracus, Venoc Warlord, 4x Vipers. Drop X17 like a bomb onto their ranged figures from Theracus, then let the Venocs do what they do best.

I'd be hesitant to go with high value squad figures in a blind matchup. Dan, Braxas, Sudema, and Me-Burq-Sa all do so well against them.

Oh boy. I think making armies is my favorite part of HS :D

[Mud Turkey 13]

Like Ski said, having only one of a common squad is not a good thing. For 400 points I think I would go with the following:

Krav Maga Agents - 100
Microcorp Agents x2 - 200
Marro Warriors - 50
Me-Burq-Sa - 50

That's a lot of range for anyone to deal with, especially in a game with only 400 points.

[TheRealQ]

Buddy Lee, I agree with the others that multiples on commons is the best way to go, but if limited to your options I would take #2. There are too many things out there that can kill commons and squads so you have to have a unique hero or two. I'm sure I could suggest a 100 different armies to you but in truth it depends upon what you have and how you play. Obviously you have picked what you have for a reason but if you are open to any suggestions let us know and you'll see this thread fill to overflowing.

[shakey_snake]

Army Core - Vydar Base: 270 Points

1 x MicroCorps Agents
1 x Gorrillanators
1 x Gladiatrons

add:
1x Microcorps
1x Guilty McCreech

[Buddy Lee]

These are all excellent points.

The "core" group evolved from my desire for a 2 Arrow Grut/Swog Rider combination and the fact that I reeeaally like the Micro Corps, and have found the Gladiatrons to be very effective in melee.

I'll give this some thought.

I also think I may have found an army I like better. After realizing that the Venoc Warlord helps the Aubrien Archers with their frency I think I like:

1 x Venoc Warlord
2 x Aubrien Archers
2 x Venoc Vipers
1 x Dead Eye Dan or 1 x Izumi Samurai.

( If I had 405 points I'd take the Armoc Vipers, but all that is 5 points to many.)

Thoughts?

Buddy Lee

[TheRealQ]

Do you not have the EOV? I never play vipers without them they are awesome. If you don't have them maybe you can make a deal with ninthdoc, he has plenty I understand.

[TheRealQ]

Oh, another thing to consider with the Venoc Warlord is Theracus. He's a scout and could place ol Deadeye at a secure elevated position.

[feekonea]

If you wanted that army, I would choose dead eye dan. I love that guy and one bad roll with the izumi and see ya. And I am one of the few people on earth that do not like the microcorp. There ability to last is good butI cannot stand the inability to kill for 100 pts. Its like height is a nessecity for them... A nessecity that is too big a risk for me too take.

[TheRealQ]

Actually one of my favorite 300 pt armies is a little something I like to call "Can't touch this."

1 Microcorp Agents
1 Krav Maga Agents
1 Elite Onyx Vipers

add a second MC and you have a 400 pt army if you don't have a second MC you can use one of several other 100 point cards

[Buddy Lee]

I don't have Raknar's yet (should be here Wednesday from HMG) so I hadn't considered using any of them.

Buuut, . . .

1 x Venoc Warlord (Medium can be carried by Theracus) 120 pts.
1 x Deadeye Dan (Medium can be carried by Theracus) 60 pts.
1 x Theracus 40 pts.
2 x Aubrien Archers (with Frenzy benefit) 70 pts. each.
1 x Venoc Vipers 40 pts.

or

1 x Venoc Warlord 120 pts.
1 x Theracus 40 pts
2 x Aubrien Archers 70 pts. each.
1 x Elite Onyx Vipers 100 pts.

or

1 x Venoc Warlord 120 pts.
1 x Dead Eye Dan 60 pts.
2 x Aubrien Archers 70 pts. each.
2 x Venoc Vipers 40 pts. each.

1 x Venoc Warlord 120 pts.
2 x Aubrien Archers (with Frenzy benefit) 70 pts. each.
1 x Elite Onyx Vipers 100 pts.
1 x Venoc Vipers 40 pts.

Hmm, these are actually looking pretty good.

Buddy Lee

[feekonea]

I like your 3rd one the best.

[TheRealQ]

I like the last one the most. The EOV to hunt down their ranged. The archers to find high ground and pepper their melee. Then the Vipers and Warlord to clean house. I think this works well together. Well-rounded.

[netherspirit]

5x Blade Gruts (200)
1x Nerak (50)
1x Tornak (100)
1x Marro Warriors (50)

20 Blade Gruts is insane!

If you are feeling really crazy, go for 10x Blade Gruts.

[Taeblewalker]

Option 1
Raelin (80)
Mircrocorps x3 (300)

Option 2
Venoc Warlord (120) - for synergy and badassness
Venoc Vipers x2 (80) - for frenzy and attack value + mobility
Aubrien Archers x2 (140) - ditto, especially given higher ground
Deadeye Dan (60) - to take out Sentinels, Minions and Zettians

Option 3
Su-Bak-Na (160)
Marro Drones x3 (150)
Raelin (80)

[TheRealQ]

If I was going to use Raelin I prefer to use her with Sentinels. They become semi-invulnerable with her bonus. All thats needed is a little range support to keep them from picking off Raelin. So how about this:

Raelin
2 Sentinels of Jandar
Syvarris

[TheRealQ]

And then there is the ever popular just kick the poo out of your opponent team-up.

Taelord
2 Minions of Utgar

Although this army does better in team play. It has a few holes and has no range.

[feekonea]

that happens to be one of my favorite teams....

[Teamski]

And then there is the ever popular just kick the poo out of your opponent team-up.

Taelord
2 Minions of Utgar

Although this army does better in team play. It has a few holes and has no range.

Now, if they were bonded, then you would have a REALLY nasty combo....

-Ski

[Alastair MacDirk]

I just played in a tourney today at Kublacon. I had the Dead-eye Dan/ Theracus combo in my army for Krav/ Sentinel/ Minion killing. Frankly, I felt it weakened me. In 4 games Dan killed 2 sentinels. Againt many tourney armies you will face he is nearly useless.... unless you want to depend on the D20 to get you through.

I also had the Krav and Raelin which bailed me out. If I had to do it all over again I would keep the Krav Raelin combo and build an army around that.

[Neveryll]

For some reason I've been liking the samuri and have a 400 pointish army as follows.

Izumi Samuri X1
Tagawa Samuri X1
Roman Archers X1
Thorgrim X1
Raelin X1

I figure put Thorgrim out on the front lines with the samuri and keep Raelin as "reserve" with the archers. Use Thorgrim until he dies and then attach his spirit one of the samuri groups. Bring in Raelin from the reserves and finish off whatever is left. This army is all about engage and sweep.

[feekonea]

hmmm I.d like to see that army in some action... I dont think that would work that well. (by the way, 100th post baby...)

[netherspirit]

For some reason I've been liking the samuri and have a 400 pointish army as follows.

Izumi Samuri X1
Tagawa Samuri X1
Roman Archers X1
Thorgrim X1
Raelin X1

I figure put Thorgrim out on the front lines with the samuri and keep Raelin as "reserve" with the archers. Use Thorgrim until he dies and then attach his spirit one of the samuri groups. Bring in Raelin from the reserves and finish off whatever is left. This army is all about engage and sweep.

To take full advantage of the Roman Archers you would need at least 2 squads, perferably 3 or 4. With only 1 squad, when you lose one you can't use the special attack. I would switch them out for the Marro Warriors.

[feekonea]

I agree with what nether said.

[TheRealQ]

hmmm I.d like to see that army in some action... I dont think that would work that well. (by the way, 100th post baby...)

Welcome to the Century Club. I just wish they had a word count as well that way you can differentiate the thoughtful posters and the ones that just do hit-n-run posting.

[Jason]

"I just played in a tourney today at Kublacon. I had the Dead-eye Dan/ Theracus combo in my army for Krav/ Sentinel/ Minion killing. Frankly, I felt it weakened me"

I find the best use for Dan is for taking down Krav. Even if he only takes down 1 I consider him worthwhile for weakenig them alot. (Assuming you draft just him and not Theracus too)

"I also had the Krav and Raelin which bailed me out. If I had to do it all over again I would keep the Krav Raelin combo and build an army around that."

I'm surprised more people don't do that. Those are the 2 most undercosted units in the game in my opinion. I would almost not even consider an army for a Tournament that did not feature atleast 1 if not both (the 1 possible exception being a Roman/4th Mass army)

[netherspirit]

Jason, you know there is a quote button right? I have never seen you use it...it's great for uhm...quoting people.

[Jason]

The 1 or 2 times I tried it on HQ.com I could never get it to work. Fortunately for us though my Copy/Paste does

[netherspirit]

You should give it a try. It would be easier to know who you are talking to when you quote someone.

[Jason]

You should give it a try. It would be easier to know who you are talking to when you quote someone

Hey it worked

[feekonea]

TheRealQ wrote:Welcome to the Century Club. I just wish they had a word count as well that way you can differentiate the thoughtful posters and the ones that just do hit-n-run posting

hey sorry if it seemed that I was just doing hit and run posting, I guess it just ended up getting to me a little bit... Also I couldnt see how that team could have jelled if he attacked with his first wave of figs, then come up and finish 'em off with raelin, wouldnt you want the tagawa to finish them up because of their bloodlust ability? And raelin to hang back and make sure she doesnt die?

[feekonea]

also take a look at my quote nether... I dont see how people get rid of the "quote" and just put (name) said:

[netherspirit]

also take a look at my quote nether... I dont see how people get rid of the "quote" and just put (name) said:

Just hit the button. Easy Peasy Japanesy.

The format for the quotes is like this



Quoted Text...





If you take the username out it will just say Quote:.

[shakey_snake]

What is BBCode?
BBCode is a special implementation of HTML. Whether you can use BBCode is determined by the administrator. You can also disable it on a per post basis from the posting form. BBCode itself is similar in style to HTML: tags are enclosed in square braces [ and ] rather than < and > and it offers greater control over what and how something is displayed. For more information on BBCode see the guide which can be accessed from the posting page.

[TheRealQ]

Jason, do you have a plan as what to match up with the Krav and Rae Rae? Considering a pair of Sentinels or do you have something else in mind?

[shakey_snake]

Jason, do you have a plan as what to match up with the Krav and Rae Rae? Considering a pair of Sentinels or do you have something else in mind?EOV's

[Buddy Lee]

A new idea that came to me tonight:

Utgar

2 x Arrow Gruts
2 x Swog Riders
1 x Tornak
1 x Blade Gruts
1 x Krug (or 2 x Blade Gruts and 1 x Nerak)

Buddy Lee

[TheRealQ]

I don't have the stats on Nerak so can't develop a full opinion yet. I like using arrow gruts on occasion but I don't pick up the swog riders that often. I know someone is scratching their head with that statement but let me finish. I like using Krug and Mimring with them instead. I'll wait till I find out about Nerak though before I lock down something.

[feekonea]

I wouldnt replace him in your army, he can bond with the figures in there, and I wouldnt replace him for MORE GRUTS, I see how people think too little gruts dont do enough, but having lots of them do, right here I think you are directly in the middle and If you add those two squads you will get a weaker bonding unit, with more bonding units that I think you will not need. What Im trying to say is, your team isnt designed for mass numbers, Its designed for bonding, get it?

[Taeblewalker]

I just played in a tourney today at Kublacon. I had the Dead-eye Dan/ Theracus combo in my army for Krav/ Sentinel/ Minion killing. Frankly, I felt it weakened me. In 4 games Dan killed 2 sentinels. Againt many tourney armies you will face he is nearly useless.... unless you want to depend on the D20 to get you through.

That, of course, is Deadeye Dan's problem. He doesn't bond. Not even with Theracus (Theracus with the ability to bond with any carried hero could be just sick!)
Dan's main ability to take out Sentinels is 50/50. That's great for a squad of Dan's or Dan bonded with something (anything). But unless you have an entrenched position with Samurai blocking for him, you had better roll lucky!

That all said, let's say he doeshave Samurai blocking for him. Dan (60), Izumi Saumrai (60), Sentinels (110) also blocking, Raelin (80) out of harm's way but benefitting the others through LOS, and Kelda (80) to heal Dan and Raelin while also staying out of harm's way. You would have fewer reasons to give order markers to anyone other than Dan.

Just don't take this army on the offensive!

Taeblewalker

[bobofett]

raelin + 6 squads of legionares
massive number of shields plus 3 attk.

[feekonea]

haha wow that sounds like a good team, of course, it is easily countered with Q9,braxas, or DED.

[Augray]

Here are a couple of other Utgar options riffing on Buddy Lee's army.

Arrow Gruts x3
Swog Rider x4
Nerak
Krug

Total:390


Arrow Gruts x2
Swog Rider x2
Nerak
Tornak
Krug

Total: 400

The Arrow gruts bond with the Swogs and Krug. The Swogs enhance the Arrow Gruts. Nerak offers a +1 defense to all orcs within 4 clear LOS (that includes not only the gruts but Tornak and the Swogs as well.)

[Hendal]

mimrig
3 arrow grunts
1 swog riders
marro
Me-burg-sa

it is only 395
but it really works, most tourneys have small boards with height , which is where Mimrig does well,

2 games against Truth at his tourney I had mimrig verses his krug, and krug was not even an issue, Mimrig on the other hand kicked some butt and was well worth the points, I didn't even have grunts to bond with him, which was a big mistake on my part.

[Buddy Lee]

Alright, my orc army is looking like this:

2 x Arrow Gruts (80 pts)
2 x Swog Rider (50 pts)
2 x Blade Gruts (80 pts)
1 x Nerak (50 pts)
1 x Tornak (100 pts)

Thats a total of 360 pts.

Would you put the remaining 40 pts in:
Arrow Gruts (Which is what I am leaning towards) ?
Blade Gruts ?
or something else (Venoc Vipers for example) ?

I also have a Krug option

I don't think I want to limit myself to only one possible army. I am also bringing a Vydar and Ullar army along with some various Einar, Jandar, and Utgar pieces. So I should be pretty set depending on how I feel when I see the opponents and map conditions.

Buddy Lee

[Jason]

Hounds + Plague + adjacent Legion =lots of Roman Death

[TheRealQ]

I don't have Nerak but doesn't he enhance all orc? If so then it appears that your arrow gruts have more enhancement than your blade gruts. As such it makes sense to add another set of arrow gruts as they will be getting the most use.

[Jason]

A 400 point army of Krav, Ae, Raelin, and Sentinels is very good (just hope they don't have alot of hounds or Braxas but I wouldn't expect to see many of them.) Against an Orc army just focus on Swog Riders + Grimnak early in the game and then really nothing else should be a threat to your pieces. It matches up well against a 4th Mass army too since by having 7 and 8 ranged units they should not get to use wait and fire

[Buddy Lee]

So I played three games of HS today and got to see each of my proposed armies in action: Orcs, Ullar, and Vydar. I played with my two nephews and niece. We had a chance to use the wave 4 figures and new Large heroes. The new dragons are awesome.

Lessons I learned:

1) I don't like the orc army too much. I think I will leave it at home.
2) I really like the 3 x MicroCorps and Carr or Major X17 army. I think it is my preferred army for GenCon.
3) I like the Ullar army but will probably drop Deadeye Dan and Theracus for the EOVs or Armocs Plus something or two more sets up Venoc Vipers.
4) I also played a 2 x Snipers and 2 x Elf Archer army that I like very much.
5) I really need to bone up on some of the rules. There were a few questions that came up that I need to make sure I understand the answers to before GenCon.
6) Never underestimate Johny "Shotgun" Sullivan's shotgun special. He was a game winner tonight (unfortunately not for me :cry: )

So again I welcome your thoughts.

Buddy Lee

[Hendal]

what about 3 micro corps. + 1 Krav Magna unit

The themed armies can be a lot of fun, but as with any army it is all how you are rolling really. The problem , IMO , w/ your orc army is 400 pts is not a lot to work with. You have arrow grunts w/ swog, and blade to go w/ tornack. Just to tought having both int he same army.
Krug is great, but I find Mimrig to be better cause of range and flying, he can get where he needs to be. People are so worried about Mimrig it is hard to worry about the grunts, who once they can get height have an attack of 2. I usually use the swog as back for when Mimrig dies , not as the manin bonding guy.
SO IMO try an army that just has one of the bonding orcs going, no both.
Mimrig
2 swog
5 arrow grunts


mimrig
krug
3 arrow grunts only 390

But orcs arn't my favorite themed unit to use, that would be the snakes. I think with the orcs the disengage is a really important aspect of there att./Def. that isn't used properly by most people

[CornPuff]

Thread Revival! :twisted:

Now now, don't be scared about giving away your armies!

Here is a few armies that I've seen or thought of (sometimes I cant remember):

lilwis's 4th Mass Mass
5x 4th Massachussettes Line
Me-Burq-Sa

All Drone
8x Marro Drones

Team Blue Dice
Raelin
Tagawa Samurai
Krav Maga Agents
Izumi Samurai
Theracus

Blade 400
3x Blade Gruts
Grimnak
Nerak
Tornak

Arrow 400
2x Arrow Gruts
2x Swog Riders
Krug
Mimring

Venoc Frenzy
Venoc Warlord
6x Venoc Vipers
Theracus

Team Robo Soldier
Major Q9
Seargent Drake Alexander
Airborne Elite


So, the challenge to all aspiring Gencon-ers is to be able to take on these armies, and much much more! Of course if they release wave 5 at gencon, then all bets are off!

Its impossible to list all the variants, but we can hope to catalog some pretty good ones.

I expect to see a lot of the Airborne Elite and mass commons in the competitions. Keep in mind that attack and defense glyphs will be present, giving everyone a little incentive to leave their starting zones and get in a good and proper fight!

[CornPuff]

ok, I have to admit that my Minion based army and my Nilf based army aren't here, but I can't give away everything :-P

These are just the armies I expect to go against. Some of them are quite scary...