Wave 6 Matchups...

[LilNewbie]

I decided to throw down a game or two using just Wave 6. Pitting the units of Wave 6 against each other and seeing who came out on top. I only had time for one game but will be playing a few others throughout this holiday season. First matchup is Heavy Gruts vs. Zombies. 420 points allows 7 units of Zombies vs. 6 Units of Heavy Gruts. I used a great map by Chicano called Ambush and decided to play for a maximum of 12 rounds.

A recap of the game follows (please excuse any blurry pictures):

Starting positions:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2678.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2679.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2680.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2681.jpg

Round 1: Gruts win Initiative a move forward trying to get to the bridge while two make their way to the glyph nearest them under the bridge. The zombies stumble forward too. Moving 6 at a time is an awesome ability and even better is the ability to move different zombies than the ones that attack. The glyphs turned out to be +1 Def on the Gruts side and +8 Initiative on the Zombies side. Heavy fighting ensues around the +1 Def glyph and proves to be a big help for the Zombie side who possess it for most of the game.
Positions at the end of Round 1:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2682.jpg

Round 2: Zombies win initiative (and continue to do so for most of the game except the last round). The Zombies capture the +1 Def glyph early in the Round and also the +8 Init glyph. The road helps get the zombies quickly over to engage the gruts. The Zombies Rise Again really helped get the zombies in position quickly also. For several Turns their were very little casualties on the Zombies side since they would get to continually restore their dead after a Grut would fall. The Gruts decide to pull back and look for places to get High Ground to help compensate for the +1 Def from the glyph.
Positions at the end of Round 2:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2683.jpg

Round 3: Zombies win intiative again (+8 wasn't even needed). :D Zombies continue to press their advantage and finally make it to the start zone of the gruts. The gruts start to give back as several zombies fall but the +1 Def is really helping out plus even with 2 dice attack, I believe the zombies only whiffed about 3 times the entire game rolling at least 1 skull each attack. They were hungry it appears.
Positions at the end of Round 3:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2684.jpg

Round 4: Zombies+Initiative again. The Gruts make a push to dislodge the glyph holders but meet tough resistance. Zombies continue to move into the Gruts area. Gruts eventually realize their plight and start using their halberds to great effect.
Positions at the end of Round 4:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2685.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2687.jpg

Round 5: Zombies win initiative (see a pattern yet?) The push to dislodge the glyph holders fails and several orcs fall quickly but their determination comes through and several zombies find that the business end of a halberd is not a nice place to be.
Positions at the end of Round 5:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2688.jpg

Round 6: Zombies win initiative again. The zombies continue to move forward but take steep casualties while the remaining orcs try to find high ground positioning with limited access from multiple zombies. The orcs finally dislodge the Initiative glyph holder at the end of the round but can't take advantage of the small victory (last act of the 3rd turn was to kill the zombie on the Init glyph).
Positions at the end of Round 6:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2689.jpg

Round 7: Zombies win initiative again. Zombies take up positions around the orcs near the orcs starting zone while two of the gruts decide to ignore the initiative glyph and attempt to remove the +1 Def zombie. They are successful and will take the glyph next round.
Positions at the end of Round 7:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2690.jpg

Round 8: Gruts lose initiative. Zombies finish off the stragglers near the Gruts starting zone and move toward the last gruts. The last remaining Grut is hoping that the +1 Def glyph will be enough. One zombie takes the Initiative glyph to help in winning the final round initiative.
Positions at the end of Round 8:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2691.jpg

Round 9: Gruts actually win initiative (Zombies rolled a 1, Gruts a 16). The Grut takes a swing at the zombie in the water but fails to incapacitate the zombie. The zombies attack the last grut and the finish him off while one of their fallen replaces the last orc. 4 zombies left standing at the end of the game (3+1 returned).
Positions at the end of Round 9:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2692.jpg

Orcs casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2693.jpg

Zombie casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2694.jpg

It was a great fight! The Zombies Rise Again really played a pivotal role in the game but the orcs held their own even after some amazing rolling by the zombies early in the game. The road bonus and the ability to move 6 zombies per activation helped the zombies in positioning and taking the fight to the orcs. The orcs stats are solid and having disengage proved extremely useful during the game when attempting to minimize zombie attacks. Wave 6 is proving to be an excellent wave.

Next up: Zombies vs. The Imperium.

Comments welcome.

Newb.

[Annerios]

Awesome report. Man, that is a lot of Wave 6!

That orc army looks impressive until you start scrolling down the page and see it shrinking in almost every picture down to nothing. :twisted:

In a melee throwdown, the zombies are bound to do well. If those orcs would have had some archers and swogs instead of just halberdiers, the outcome may have been different.

[Joah]

Awesome report Newbie!
I really can't wait to get my hands on DoD.

I like that you've got the two Imax DT's working also.
Good thinking. :wink:

[LilNewbie]

Thanks and I agree! A combined arms force of orcs (and some Orc champions) would have made a big difference in the game. This battle was just a fun way to try out just wave 6. Besides the zombies were rolling extremely well this game.

Newb.

[LilNewbie]

Thanks, Joah! IMax's DTs are awesome and add a lot to the game table (form and function in one.)

I plan on trying this match up soon (courtesy of HEH):

Ke-Mo-Shi
Runa
Heavy Gruts
Shades
Zombies

Vs.

Kaemon
Hatamoro
Samurai Archers
Imperium
Kiova.


Newb.

[Nwojedi]

the zombies are going to win whatever you put against them. They are underpriced. They should be 80 points. Plain and simple. They have too many abilities that are too powerful.

[player_of_volleyball]

Awsome report. i cant wait to read the next one.

[Robotech Master]

RE: the zombies are going to win whatever you put against them. They are underpriced. They should be 80 points. Plain and simple. They have too many abilities that are too powerful.


I still don't understand this train of thought. The Zombies lose almost all of their effectiveness if their isn't at least two of them in your army, which means you're looking at a minimum of 120 Points, which is a sizeable chunck of a 400 point army.

The ability to move with six, after all, requires that you have six to move. The Zombie special attack would no longer be an option to a single Zombie squad that lost one guy, so again you pretty much need to spend at least 120 points.

Zombies Rise again is assuming that the slow moving Zombies don't get mowed down by ranged characters before closing in. For heavens sake they only have 3 Defense. Knights have 4 defense and despite thier solid stats they usually get mowed down before they can do squat until Sir Gilbert came along and gave them some potential mobility.

To me, the Zombies are really powerful, but require things to go well for them in order to work. This battle here ended with only 4 Zombies left on the field. The last Battle Report posted didn't show the Zombies having domination at all either.

They're still subject to Horde Killers (Braxas, Jotun, Nilf, Q9). A powerful unit yes, but at 120 points minimum to be really effective, I think they're correctly priced. Whereas I think people like the Knights are overpriced.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Moving 6 at a time is an awesome ability and even better is the ability to move different zombies than the ones that attack.
So true. It's insane when you see them all advancing and then they kill one of your figures and - surprise! - there's one more zombie in your face!!!
:zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie:

ZOMBIES Decimate Orcs! Blue flesh tastes oh so good to the pale green skins!
Fun pictures.The zombies are pretty darned good in a melee battle.
Guerillanator handed my bottom to me tonight with 4 squads of Zombies, 1 Shades, and KRavs against my Raelin/Kiova/Imperium x2 army.
He never activated the Kravs!!!
The zombies and the Rise Again power was just gawdawful scary! They swarmed all over me. I could've Stealth flew away several times, but decided not to. Looking back on things, I should have done this. Sigh.

I really need to buy some more Wave 6 - if I can find it.
Double sigh...

Btw, great picture! The wounds on your zombies look so much more festering, open and disgusting than mine. :evil:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2680.jpg

[LilNewbie]

Thanks, everyone! I have the game setup for the next fight (Zombies vs. Imperium) and should be playing that tonight or Friday! I agree with your assessment, Robotech Master. With only 4 zombies left standing (technically 3), I wouldn't call it a runaway game. The zombies were rolling extremely well for their attacks and having the +1 Def glyph most of the game gave them a decent advantage.

After playing both units, I think their point costs are both justified. 70 points for the orcs seems a bit high but then realizing they have 3/3 for their stats plus 5 move and disengage makes them decent orc shock troops. Bonding is just icing on the cake. The zombies slow move is offset by their ability to move 6 at a time. Attack of 2 is lower than the average. The ability to keep coming back is their big advantage and to keep that from happening you have to keep the zombies from entering close combat (sometimes that easy...sometimes it's not.)


Btw, great picture! The wounds on your zombies look so much more festering, open and disgusting than mine.
LOL! Thanks, HEH! What can I say...necromancy just runs in the family....

:D

Newb.

[Ch1can0]

Hi LilNewbie,

cool pics & battlereport, hope i can play with that units someday... and nice that you choose "Ambush" for the Report. :D

Bye, Chicano.

[LilNewbie]

Hey Ch1can0! I actually had a difficult time deciding on which of your maps to use since they are all very cool! I did modify the start zones on the Ambush map just a little to create a larger starting area of 24 spaces. The teleport glyphs (brandar) are a bit out of the way but I love the placement of the other glyphs as they cause a lot of acitvity around the center of the board and are in vulnerable spots.

Newb.

[ariealaviator]

Great report Newb. How much money did all those units cost
though. I wish I could get that many but I think its out of my
price range. :(

[Robotech Master]

The reason I think the Heavy Gruts are 70 Points is because they bond with and can therefore move just as easily with their heroes as the blade gruts can, meaning than an effective player would easily make them 4 for attack and defense by putting them adjacent to their champion.

[LilNewbie]

Next Battle: Zombies vs. Imperium.

The battle was fought on the same board as before (Chicano's Ambush map) and the armies were 420 points each. 420 allows 7 units of Zombies and 3 units of the Imperium. Zombies take the same side they had when facing the Orcs. The Einar line up on the opposite side while trying not to trip over dead orcs and zombies.

Starting Positions:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2695.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2696.jpg
You can barely see the braineaters lining up for the buffet:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2697.jpg

Round 1: Zombies win initiative and start trudging toward the glyph locations and moving on the road toward the bridge. The Imperium get to the Glyph on the zombie side and reveal it to be the +1 Def glyph. The zombies make it across the water and reveal the Imperium's side glyph to be the +8 Init glyph. Same glyphs from last game but reversed position (glyphs are randomized each game). Combat occurs near the glyphs and a single Imperium moves toward the bridge securing a spot on the zombie side. A few zombies fall to the combat prowess of the Imperium but the single Imperium struggling with the zombies near the +8 init glyph is overcome by the onslaught of the undead and is quickly raised as a fellow zombie.
Positions at the end of Round 1:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2698.jpg
Round 2: Zombies win initiative and continue to attack the +1 Def glyph holders while attempting to dislodge the Imperium holding the bridge. Another Imperium replaces his fallen brother-in-arms near the +8 Init glyph and decimates the zombies attempting to hold the glyph. The Imperium hold off the attackers at the +1 Def glyph. The bridge is also a scene of bloody combat but the Imperium holds his ground while sending a few zombies to their graves.
Positions at the end of Round 2:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2699.jpg

Round 3: Zombies win initiative again. The zombies fighting near the bridge redouble their attempt to remove the Imperium from the bridge and finally succeed but not without taking a few more casualties. The Imperium moving up from the back ranks takes the place of the fallen Imperium on the bridge but has to face his fallen brother again as he was raised as a zombie but quickly sends him to the grave permanently. The Imperium starts to avenge his fallen comrade on the zombies near the bridge. Zombies make their way across the water in an attempt to secure the +8 init glyph but are quickly cut down by the sharpened blades of an Imperium. The Zombies regroup near the road and in the process drop another Imperium who quickly rises to join the Zombie horde. Another Imperium moves toward the bridge from the back ranks.
Positions at the end of Round 3:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2700.jpg

Round 4: Imperium win initiative and quickly move to dispatch as many zombies as possible. Zombies counterattack but the Imperium onslaught is unstoppable and by Turn 2 all the Zombies have been destroyed. The Imperium secure the bridge in the name of Einar!
Positions at the end of Round 4:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2701.jpg

Imperium casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2702.jpg

Zombie casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2703.jpg

Wow!! The Imperium are pure beatsticks with two attacks, 3/3 stats and 5 move of stealth flying. They are worth 140 points. Of course, they weren't facing ranged units but a common squad with multiple attacks and decent flying speed...simply awesome (and the sculpts are cool looking too!) The zombies just didn't know what hit them. The zombies were rolling good too but not good enough and the Imperium controlling the +1 Def glyph really helped when facing 2 dice attacks. The stealth flying played a big role in the game since the Imperium could pull back to higher ground when the zombies were trying to surround or get a good position on the Imperium. Wave 6 is a blast....

Comments welcome.

More Wave 6 matchups to come....

Newb.

[Su-Bak-Na]

I was hoping the Imperium would win (they are my favorite unit from Dawn of Darkness) what amazes me is that they only lost one squad!!!!!!!

[LilNewbie]

Having the possibility of 6 attacks per round really put a hurt on the zombies. I was also surprised the Imperium lost so few figures in the struggle.

Newb.

[Josef]

And every one hates the zombies for being over priced, gesh. Haha anyways, cool battle. If you took the bonding in the battles on the first, i would say the zombies are the wors so far. But then again thats just solo, and Einar's superior speed was probably their main advantage. Anyways, Love the reports.

[Su-Bak-Na]

So whats the next matchup going to be.

[Pattar007]

Can't wait for the next battle.

[CupidsArt]

Yeah the Imperium are beatsticks. I played some games last nigth with Madhatter, Grimm, and Link last night. I fielded two squads of these guys (during a No Range game) and they destroyed.

[hextr1p]

Chiming in a little late, but these are both great reports, Newb! Looking forward to the next one. Imperium vs Gruts would be cool... though throwing some heroes into the mix would be a nice twist to the previous two common battles. :D

[GForce3062]

sweet battle. i hope you use the samurai archers soon. go einar! :einar:

[Rÿchean]

im jealous you have enough to do this with :(

I am so sick of seeing wave 5 on the shelves here in Dallas.

All I want for Xmas is some wave 6...i will try again today.

Thanks Lilnewb!

[LilNewbie]

Thanks, everyone! The next battle will be between these two forces (courtesy of HEH):

Ke-Mo-Shi
Runa
Heavy Gruts
Shades
Zombies

Vs.

Kaemon
Hatamoro
Samurai Archers
Imperium
Kiova.

Look for it very soon!

Newb.

[hextr1p]

My money is on Army 2... though the two look pretty even.

[GForce3062]

My money is on Army 2... though the two look pretty even.
i agree :D

[tmacdagreat]

Great reports! They are awesome! And with pics!
The next battle is going to be awesome.

[riledguy]

These are GREAT reports thanks for taking the time to write them up and the pictures. Very cool and does go to show that the zombies are not the be all end all in a fight with non ranged figures.

you rock ... can't wait to get my hands on wave 6. I have yet to see them in the stores but when I do... hehe.

[LilNewbie]

Thanks for replies, everyone! It's fun writing these up and taking the pics but makes it worthwhile to know these are read and enjoyed!

Here is the next matchup:

Utgar - 540 Points
Ke-Mo-Shi
Runa
Heavy Gruts
Shades
Zombies (x2)

Vs.

Einar - 545 Points
Kaemon
Hatamoro
Samurai Archers
Imperium
Kiova

I use two rules for Order Markers while soloing HS to keep some balance in the game. 1. Multiple order markers may not be placed on a single card unless there are less than 3 cards left in that army. 2. Consecutive order markers may not be placed on a single card unless it is the only remaining card in that army.

Starting positions:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2705.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2704.jpg

Round 1-First roll was a tie (9s), Einar wins initiative (8 to 5):
Turn 1-One Imperium moves forward and captures the Utgar side glyph (+1 Def). The other two Imperium move toward the bridge and are on track to the other glyph. One Shade moves forward and captures the glyph (+2 MV) while the two other shades (now with a MV of 9) attack the glyph holding Imperium but fail to inflict any damage.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2707.jpg
Turn 2-Kiova moves forward to provide her protection to the Imperium and also attacks a nearby Shade sending it back to oblivion. Runa moves adjacent to an Imperium while keeping a Shade of sight so she can safely activate her Helm. The magic of the Helm fails to harm the two Imperium which must have affected her normal attack since she cannot hit the adjacent Imperium.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2708.jpg
Turn 3-Kaemon Awa moves forward close enough to Runa to Quick Release two shots at her causing 3 wounds total. Kee-Mo-Shi moves forward with a whopping 11 move (Road bonus+Glyph) but fails to make contact with any enemies.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2709.jpg
Round 2-Utgar wins initiative (11 to 2):
Turn 1-Runa activates her Helm but the magic fails her again. She does strike the Imperium with 3 skulls but the Imperium was ready for the attack and rolls 4 shields (+1 Def from Glyph). The Imperium don't take kindly to the magical attacks and quickly dispatch Runa. The other Imperium are also motivated by their battle-brother's success and send the two remaining Shades back to the Ether.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2710.jpg
Turn 2-Kee-Mo-Shi moves forward to attempt a Mindshackle on Kiova but fails to bring the Empress into submission (rolled a 7). KMS attacks the glyph-holding Imperium and hits with 3 skulls but the Imperium battle prowess proves strong and defends by rolling 3 shields (without even using the Aura). The Toxic Skin fails to wound the Imperium (rolled a 3) but does harm Kiova (rolled an 18 ). Kiova returns the favor by slipping past KMS's defense causing 1 wound.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2712.jpg
Turn 3-The Heavy Gruts start to move forward with two heading toward the MV glyph and two heading up the road toward the bridge (not shown). Kaemon Awa takes two shots at KMS and causing 1 wound total.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2713.jpg
Round 3-Utgar wins initiative (2 to 1):
Turn 1-The Gruts take the MV glyph and surround the Imperium near the glyph. The MV glyph allows the other Gruts to take the bridge and get into combat with the Def Glyph Imperium. The Orcs kill the Imperium near the MV glyph but fail to harm the Def Glyph Imperium. The Imperium seeking retribution for their fallen brother, kill the 2 Gruts near the MV glyph but fail to harm KMS (something about her eyes...)
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2714.jpg
Turn 2-KMS fails to Mindshackle Kiova (rolled an 8 ) then attacks the Imperium causing three skulls but once again the Imperium defends with 3 shields (still not needing the Aura). Toxic Skin fails to harm the Orc (6), the Imperium (12) or Kiova (9). Kiova continues to attack KMS causing another wound.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2715.jpg
Turn 3-Zombies start to move forward with 3 heading toward glyph keeping distant from any high ground and 3 head up the road (not shown). Kaemon Awa takes two shots at KMS and drops her on the second shot.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2716.jpg
Round 4-Einar wins initiative (14 to 4):
Turn 1-The Imperium near the MV glyph moves to the bridge to attack and kill the Grut on the Bridge. The Def Glyph Imperium fails to wound the Grut near him. Zombies continue to trudge forward.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2718.jpg
Turn 2-Kaemon Awa moves forward to claim the MV glyph. He drops one zombie but fails to harm a second one (3 skulls/3 shields). The Grut fails to harm the Def Glyph Imperium.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2719.jpg
Turn 3-Kiova moves forward and kills a Zombie on the road. The zombies attack in kind and wound both Kiova and Kaemon Awa.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2720.jpg
Round 5-Utgar wins initiative (6 to 3):
Turn 1-Zombies attack Kiova causing a wound but fail to harm Kaemon Awa. Kaemon Awa is unable to dispatch either adjacent Zombie.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2722.jpg
Turn 2-The Grut finally kills the Imperium on the Def Glyph (Kiova could not see the Imperium to allow him to use the Aura...D'oh!) The last Imperium moves to join Kiova on the landing near the bridge and kills one zombie threatening his Empress.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2723.jpg
Turn 3-The zombies destroy Kaemon Awa with some amazing rolling and a fallen zombie rises in his place. Kiova kills 1 more zombie but is shaken as she sees a champion of Einar such as Kaemon Awa fall in such a gruesome manner.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2724.jpg
Round 6-Utgar wins Initiative (15 to 10):
Turn 1-The Zombies shamble forward while leaving one holding the MV glyph. The Imperium flies across the stream and destroys the zombie holding the MV glyph.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2725.jpg
Turn 2-The last Heavy Grut takes the +1 Def glyph knowing that the fight is far from over. The Tagawa Archers are sent forward and attack all three remaining Utgar figures. 1 zombie falls with a feathered shaft through the head.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2726.jpg
Turn 3-The last zombie continues to ramble forward. Hatamoto Taro takes up a position to support the Archers.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2727.jpg
Round 7-Tie first roll (9's). Einar wins initiative on second roll (18 to 12):
Turn 1-Tagawa Archers move to position and attack killing the last two Utgar figures on the field.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2728.jpg

Einar controls the bridge again!

Einar casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2730.jpg

Utgar casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2731.jpg

What a fight!! I love Kaemon Awa and should have pulled him back but his double attack at 4 dice is so awesome (except when you can't roll skulls. :D ). The Imperium once again show their worth but they still weren't facing a range heavy army. The Shades are fast with 7 base MV and stealth flying and have a decent defense of 4. Great glyph finders but they can become big targets due to their possession ability. The archers did a good clean up job and they are the best scuplts/paint jobs of the common units in Wave 6 and look great on the battlefield standing alongside Hatamato Taro (and Kaemon Awa).

Comments welcome...

Newb.

[johnny139]

Great reports! First match was obvious (I'm starting to see the zombie's worth), but the second was a surprise! I'm glad the Imperium are of use, I intend to pick a pair up. Third match was great, complete slaughter against Utgar. I can't belive they only lost three figures! Those Imperium are great; too bad the TSA didn't get much use...

[Josef]

Sweet. KMS and KA are really growing on me. Really like'n the posts.

[GForce3062]

sweet battle! now i have to get all of the einar forces in wave 6! go einar! :einar:

[Adam]

u should do einar vs the other faction in this wave!
Einar:
Kaemon awa
Empress Kiova
Imperium
Tagawa samurai archers
Hatamoto

VS

Jandar:
Tarny tim


FIGHT!!!! lol

[LilNewbie]

LOL! Tim would so own Einar!!

:D

I'm working on a new matchup....Tagawa Archers vs. Imperium to see if the Imperium can still hold their ground versus a heavy ranged army. Recap to be posted soon.

Newb.

[Su-Bak-Na]

I want the Imperium to win but I'm not so sure that they can this time.

[LilNewbie]

Next matchup Imperium vs. Tagawa Archers:

Imperium (x2) 280
vs.
Tagawa Archers (x4) 260

Using same map (Chicano's Ambush map).

Starting Positions:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2732.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2733.jpg

Round 1-Tagawa win initiative (16/3):
A Tagawa Archer moves forward to cover the glyph spaces knowing the Imperium will likely get to the glyphs first. Two other Archers move forward on the road to cover the bridge and to get high ground. Imperium move forward revealing the Archer side glyph as the +8 Init glyph. The next Imperium uncovers the opposite glyph (on the Imperium side) to be the +1 Def glyph. Five Archers are cut down by the combat prowess of the Imperium while the Archers slay three Imperium (including the Imperium holding +1 Def glyph) with some amazing rolling. The Imperium brings the fight to the Archers since waiting for them would bring certain doom.
Positions at the end of the round:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2734.jpg
Round 2-Imperium wins initiative(20/4):
The Imperium attacks fail to harm any Archers while the Archers take high ground positions and rain death upon the Imperium. The last Imperium standing slays an Archer but is quickly brought down by accurate fire.
Positions at the end of the round:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2735.jpg

Archer casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2737.jpg

Imperium casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2738.jpg

What a slaughter. The Archers were deadly with their fire and rarely missed a shot (at least 1 skull every attack). When the Imperium did attack they were brutal except the 1st Turn of the 2nd Round when it really mattered. I did play the scenario again to see if it was just a fluke. That game lasted 4 rounds and the Imperium did a better job of staying alive but the Archers won that game too with 2 Archers surviving:
End of 2nd Game:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2739.jpg

2nd Game casualties:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2740.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/LilNewbie/HeroScape/100_2741.jpg

The Imperium are tough but the Archers split up and tried to stay at least 2 spaces apart to minimize the double attack of the Imperium. Having fewer figures also meant the Imperium couldn't hold glyphs as easy as the Archers since the Imperium had no figures to spare (The Archers never took a glyph in either game).

Next up Imperium vs. Heavy Gruts.

Newb.

[Aldin]

Great battle report, Newb! Did counterstrike ever come into play?

~Aldin

[Nwojedi]

it's going to be no contest that wave 6 can hold it's own against itself. But those zombies are going to crush any of the other waves head to head.

[Josef]

Psh, the zombies are slow and low attack. I can't wait to watch the Tagawa Archers own the Zombies. Even the Imperium lost to the skilled sharp shooting of the Tagawa. Grats for the Archers win!!!

[LilNewbie]

Great battle report, Newb! Did counterstrike ever come into play?

~Aldin

Thanks, Aldin. I should have listed the counterstrike kills better but it did come into play only once in the first game (amazingly) and that was during the Imperium whiff-a-thon in Round 2. In the second game, two Imperium became victims of the counterstrike but the Imperium did better in the second game...go figure. Thanks for reminding me about the counterstrike kills.

Newb.

[Aldin]

Thanks, Aldin. I should have listed the counterstrike kills better but it did come into play only once in the first game (amazingly) and that was during the Imperium whiff-a-thon in Round 2. In the second game, two Imperium became victims of the counterstrike but the Imperium did better in the second game...go figure. Thanks for reminding me about the counterstrike kills.

Newb.

Nifty. That confirms a suspicion I had, that whiffed attack rolls will cost anyone attacking the Sammies a fig or two. At TEI's 45+ points per fig that can hurt...

~Aldin

[NecroBlade]

This thread is so awesome. Any chance you're considering going back to other waves after this one's done?

[LilNewbie]

Hmmm...I hadn't considered it but I could do that. Sounds like fun. Starting at Wave 1 and do some matchups with just those units could prove interesting. Should I change the map or use the same one? Maybe a new map for each wave?

Newb.

[NecroBlade]

Hmmm...I hadn't considered it but I could do that. Sounds like fun. Starting at Wave 1 and do some matchups with just those units could prove interesting. Should I change the map or use the same one? Maybe a new map for each wave?

Newb.I think it's a great map you have now, but it'll probably be more interesting to see a different map with each wave. I can't wait for more battles!

[Stealth Dodge]

The main thing these battles will show is that range truly dominates melee. I'd also think it harms squads desgined to be used with other figures. For example the Orc Archers are meant to be used with Swogs, if you simply do Wave 1 vs Wave 1 the Swogs would get annhilated

[ariealaviator]

If you think range always dominats melee then you should read Ty G's Battle Report Samurai vs Sci-fi
It puts an all ranged army against an all melee army. The melee destroys
the ranged army.http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=140624&highlight=#153271

[Stealth Dodge]

Obviously it is not IMPOSSIBLE for a melee army to win but 99% of people agree that range dominates in Heroscape. Heck even in your example the melee army won initiative EVERY single round. That by itself is extremely lucky and a huge benefit

[Snotwalker 8000]

Obviously it is not IMPOSSIBLE for a melee army to win but 99% of people agree that range dominates in Heroscape. Heck even in your example the melee army won initiative EVERY single round. That by itself is extremely lucky and a huge benefit

Ranged units are great, I think we'd all agree, but in a well-balanced map including a good amount of LOS blockers (trees/glaciers/walls/pillars/etc.) an army with a complimentary mix of melee and range will destroy an all-ranged army. An army needs the melee heavy-hitters to be competitive.

Newb, I would love to see a couple battle reports on well-built ranged-only armies against well-built/synergistic melee armies... Taking whatever units are needed from all waves. (ie: all melee orc army (gruts/Grimmy/Tornak), or knight/Gil/Sent army, or Samurai/Rae army, Vipers, etc., against an all-ranged agent army, 4th mass army, Aubrien Archers/Roman Archers, etc... but the key is the armies must be pure melee versus pure ranged. (no marcus with the 4th Mass, e.g.)

We hear of the ranged dominance over melee units so frequently in this forum that having several such "test-tube" battles would be of great interest.

SW8K

[mnguy12000]

newb,

Do you have the link to download the ambush map. I wasnt able to find it anywhere and I would like to try it as well.

thanks,

MNguy.

[LilNewbie]

Here ya go, mnguy12000:

http://www.heroscapers.com/download/index.php?dlid=66

Snotwalker8000, I could run some matchups like you ask and will start working on some armies to try out but I think we will find that a pure range army will win more often than not. It's not a matter of balance it's just a matter of reality. If I have troops that can hit your troops without fear of retaliation, my chances of winning are going to be much greater than yours. The balancing factor in that situation will be the amount of terrain and how much cover the armies receive while advancing. I guess the thing to try will be to come up with some armies and play them on different types of maps (one normal terrain, one light terrain and one heavy) and see the average of wins. I think the thing we will learn is that combined arms (i.e. balanced armies with both ranged and melee units) will be the way to go. I welcome anyone interested to list some suggestions for pure-melee and pure-range armies (SW8K already has some good suggestions in his post).

Another thing to consider is that larger maps (or maps with longer paths to the enemy) will generally favor ranged units while smaller maps will limit some of the strengths of ranged units.

Newb.

[Adam]

Ill help do some other waves! but i really cant do much on wave 1 because i only have dbbls of Snipers/Vipers. Ill cover wave 5! i have tons o dbbls there. With this, we'll be able 2 know what to pick if enemy drafts samurai or anything! ill get started. :D

EDIT:

Well i paired up Reavers and Ninjas, seeing as how they are almost the exact same price.

3 squads of Reavers:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010116.jpg

and one squad of Ninjas
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010118.jpg

Round 1
Ninjas win initiative (10/2) and start to advance
Reavers start through the forest too
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010119.jpg

Round 2
Reavers win initiative (14/10)
the two meet up in the center of the field
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010120.jpg

a ninja attacks, killing the reaver and sending the other two scattering to the ninja behind him while the other ninja makes a flank manuever
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010121.jpg

the two reavers attack, but the ninjas poof away
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010122.jpg

the other reaver makes a break for a glyph while the final one kills the first ninja
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010123.jpg

Round 3
Ninjas win initiative (20/7)
The ninja finally reaches the Reaver starting zone, attacking a reaver and missing, allowing the reavers to advance
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010124.jpg

The reaver finally captures the glyph, and it turns out to be Astrid
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010125.jpg

Some reavers start to engulf the ninjas, but the ninjas poof away from the onslaught, regrouping in the middle
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010127.jpg

Round 4
Ninjas win initiative (6/5)
The ninjas move toward two straggling reavers, destroying them.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010129.jpg

this allows the reavers to scatter towards the ninjas, and destroy them.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010130.jpg

Reaver casualties:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010132.jpg

Ninja casualties:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/adamtune/P1010131.jpg

The reavers won! I was a little surprised, seing as the ninjas had 4 attack. But, i guess it comes down to who can take the field first.

If u want me to do more, ill gladly help out.

[Teamski]

Excellent, excellent reports. Thanks for sizing them all up and gaining some envy points in the process!!

-Ski

[LilNewbie]

Nice report, Adam! I think it is sheer numbers that won that one. Ninjas are nice but the loss of one ninja really affects the game where the loss of one roborat doesn't matter much. Interesting choice for matchup.

Newb.

[Stealth Dodge]

It'd be a big upset if the Ninjas had won seeing as how it was 12 on 3. Tagawas vs 3x Squads of reavers would be interesting. G Nators would own the reavers though

[Adam]

gorrilinators were wave 3 right? srry, no dbbls of wave 3 yet.


thnx for ur comments peeps. i will do another report on flagbearer themed armies, and castle seige. may turn out interestingly! hope to get it up tommorow. :D glad to help lilnewbie

[tmacdagreat]

I want Wave 3 so bad! Its nowhere!

[ariealaviator]

Since I have a few extra of wave 5 I did a battle between ninja
and samurai but I can't get the pictures on my post. Can anyone
tell me how to get my pictures on this stupid post :?:

[ariealaviator]

Ok here is my attemped at a wave 5 matchup. I got an extra ninja and
samurai pack for christmas and decided to put them against each other.
The map was ambush ( modified because I don't have wave 1)

Ninja starting positions
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape001.jpg

Samurai Starting positions
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape002.jpg

Round 1
Samurai win anitiative 20/17

Turns 1 and 2- ninjas send 2 units at the bridge and 1 at their
sides glyph. Samurai send 1 at bridge and 1 at each glyph.

Turn 3 Samurai- Samurai take their side glyph(+1 def) and ninja side glyph(+8 ini)
Samurai on initiative glyph attacks the ninja who attempted to take the
initiative glyph but it dissapears. Samurai and ninja meet on bridge and
Samurai whiffs first attack.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape003.jpg

Turn 3 Ninjas- Ninjas move using ghost walk and disingage to attack all 3 samurai. They
kill the 2 glyph holders even with inhanced def. but fail to beat the bridge
Samurai. No couter strikes yet.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape004.jpg

Round 2
Samurai win initiative 19/5

Turn 1 Samurai- Samurai move to replace their losses and attack bridge ninja. The
Samurai rolls 2 attack but is defended with the ninjas only 3 defence dice.

Turn 1 Ninjas- Ninjas take def. glyph and kill the bridge Samurai.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape005.jpg

Turn 2 Samurai- The 2 advancing Samurai reach the battle and engage bridge ninja
and def. glyph ninja. Bridge ninja falls but glyph ninja disapears.

Turn 2 Ninjas- The ninja who disapeared takes heigh advantage over the
Samurai who was almost on the bridge and kills him. Meanwhile the other
ninja takes the initiative glyph and they send another ninja from the back.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape006.jpg

Turn 3 Samurai- The advancing Samurai moves to the ninja on the bridge
and attacks but the ninja dissapears. The Samurai below takes the def. glyph.

Turn 3 Ninja- Ninja on bridge who dissapeared moves back into engagement
with the advancing Samurai and kills him while the ninja sent from the
back reaches the bridge.

Round 3
Samurai win initaitive 14/12(ninjas rolled 4+ini. glyph)

Turn 1 Samurai- The last Samurai(not Tom Cruise) leaves the def. glyph in favor of higher
ground.

Turn 1 Ninja- The 2 bridge ninja move into position to attack him and kill
him on the first try.

Final positions

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape007.jpg

Ninja Casualties

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape008.jpg

Samurai Casualties

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r11/areialaviator/Heroscape009.jpg

I must say I was surprised with the results. Before this match I had done
2 others. The first the Samurai destroyed the ninjas. There were no dissapearings.
The second was closer and the ninjas pulled out a win by 1 figure.
There was still only 1 dissapearing in that game. This report was the tie breaker.
If there is anything to be learned from this is that ninjas are worth the
extra 10 points compared to Samurai.

[tmacdagreat]

Theyre unique squads though. You used 2x each.

[ariealaviator]

I did because 1 on 1 wouldn't be much of a battle.

[feekonea]

I did because 1 on 1 wouldn't be much of a battle.

yes, thats true and I agree with you there, but I also think that the ninjas should've mopped up because, for one, they had 20 points extra on the samurai, and that they are a unique squad, but you played two of them(which you had to) so I wasnt so surprised by the outcome of that game.

[ariealaviator]

That's true the ninjas had a 20 point advantage but I wasn't so sure
what the outcome would be because up untill then I was terrible at
using the ninjas disapear special. Without that they are an average
squad.

[Stealth Dodge]

Most squads are average or worse if you don't take into account their special