Looking for ideas for siege weapons

[quixotequest]

I picked up a couple sets of old Mage Knight siege weapons (catapult, ballista, cannon and mortar) for a steal. I'm thinking of preparing customs in prep for when castles are available.

My thoughts are whether to tie a squad or hero to move with the weapons. (In other words give the weapons "bonding") or whether they should act alone. My thought is the former.

Otherwise powers seem pretty obvious: indirect explosion special attack like DW9K. Maybe should allow trees or objects to get destroyed. Or who knows??

Any thoughts??

[peabodyw]

I made some customs with those figures. I have only played them once and they seemed pretty good. They might still need some tweaking. I was also going to give life values to ruins and trees and other terrain pieces to make it interesting. I had made them to go with the castle as well. I am not sure how to make a link but I just posted my cards in the gallery if you want to take a look and tell me what you think.

[quixotequest]

I like the concept of these being battlefield items. I had anticipated drafting them at a pt cost. I think I'd like to test out your idea and see how it shakes. I want to see how range between the mortar and cannon duplicate battlefield conditions (Mortar should lob higher for a shorter distance) as well as how the catapult works being a fixed item (probably okay if it is inside a castle).

Thanks!!

[Bannister]

I have a somewhat different thought on siege weapons that some might be interested in. On HQ there was a glyph contest which I had intended on entering (real world took me away for a couple of weeks). Anyway, my idea was a seige tower glyph to be used against the castle. It could be assigned to a squad and placed next to the castle to gain access. It basically used work a-la grapple gun to get you to the top.

It could only be destroyed if you destroyed the squad before it was placed and could be blocked if you positioned defenders at the top of the castle walls.

Anyway, that may not be what you are looking for but just a thought.

Bannister

[Annerios]

I like the idea of making a card for the item that states how many figures are needed as crew to work the device. Then, if that many figures are adjacent, they can use the item to attack instead of moving and attacking with their own specials and attack values.

On some items there may need to be some limitation on what kind of figures can serve as crew (for example, should the dimwitted Venoc Vipers or Anubian wolves be allowed to work a catapult?).

There also has to be some allowance for movement of the item, since that is going to come up if you need to reposition it during battle. Something akin to "if X figures are adjacent to the item it can move X spaces". The more figures around it, the faster it can move. That will make 4 figure squads ideal as crew. Plus, on some turns, they can stop using the item and use their own attacks to defend themselves or the item from attacks, etc.

I made some destructible terrain cards for a MK tower door and the small RTFF bridge and playtested them with some success. I am waiting for the castle rules to solidify more of these ideas. How Hasbro handles the gate on the castle set is going to be a big clue as to how to approach this kind of design.

I am going to put my destructible items on a new card template, unless Hasbro makes a card for the castle gate with their own template.

I wish Hasbro would put the rules for the castle up already like they did prior to the release of the snow set. It would be very helpful. :)

[reapersaurus]

There have been many discussion threads about Seige weapons thru the years.
Grungebob, in particular, has done a lot of work on them.

The concensus is that we should wait till Hasbro finally reveals their Castle rules, THEN we use those kick-butt MK Castle minis & can start making seige weapon rules that directly address the HS playfield. Until then, we are just guessing.

[K/H_Addict]

heres a baic thought i have for a cannon:

Jandar's Cannon

Move: ?
Range: 15
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
Points: 100

Stationary: Jandar's cannon may only be moved my a Hero that follows Jandar (yours or your opponents). Jandar's cannon can only move half of the unit moving the cannon's listed move (no enhancements are used whn moving Jandar's Cannon).

Limited Production: There may only be 1 Jandar's Cannon for each player.









sound fair to you?

[Runehardt]

I'm currently working on some cannons that you can place on your starting zone and NOT move. You will not need to leave someone at the cannon and can place an order marker on it's card to use it. They will have a large range and you will have to roll for accuracy and then roll for size of impact zone and then roll for attack damage. I'll post the card here when done.

[K/H_Addict]

wow. thats a lot of rolling. how does it launch?

[Runehardt]

wow. thats a lot of rolling. how does it launch?
It's Magic! "ooooooweeeoooooo"

I want my cannon to be very powerfull but unpredictable so it's balanced.
It doesn't need a figure next to it because it will have one standing on the same base. or possibly riding it.

I also was playing with the idea of having a large cannon like weapon on the back of a creature like an elephant or mammoth. That way it could move on it's own and have a little rider on it that shoots the cannon.

http://upload4.postimage.org/278727/Bang_.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/278727/photo_hosting.html)

[Rhydderch]

I had considered rules for some siege weapons as well and like many other designers on HQ decided to wait until the castle rules came out. Its just too much work to create a ruleset for the artillery and cannons and etc only to find out Hasbro has taken the castles in a completely different direction.

Off-hand my rules for the siege weapons basically had them as tools that had to be operated by a squad or hero. The weapons were designed with special abilities and also had rules for how large the figures in a crew had to be in order to move the weapon, etc. I had also designed a few squads that had special abilities to use with the weapons.

[quixotequest]

I'm currently working on some cannons that you can place on your starting zone and NOT move. You will not need to leave someone at the cannon and can place an order marker on it's card to use it. They will have a large range and you will have to roll for accuracy and then roll for size of impact zone and then roll for attack damage. I'll post the card here when done.

I'd think the rolls of the attack dice are enough to represent the whismies of accuracy. Do you think it needs more?

[K/H_Addict]

wow. thats a lot of rolling. how does it launch?
It's Magic!



OH NO YOU DIDNT! "it's magic" is my respons when someone asks me a question! PUNK! :lol:


i can see why you want it to be strong but balanced. will it have it's own point value so as to be drafted like my idea did?

[quixotequest]

There have been many discussion threads about Seige weapons thru the years.
Grungebob, in particular, has done a lot of work on them.

The concensus is that we should wait till Hasbro finally reveals their Castle rules, THEN we use those kick-butt MK Castle minis & can start making seige weapon rules that directly address the HS playfield. Until then, we are just guessing.

I concede that you are probably right, Reaper. I'm just aching to get these into playtesting! Since you can pick these weapons up for next to nothing pretty easily I can imagine that even in HS makes it's own that I'll just emulate what they do using these Mage minis. I got 8 seige weapons and two giant cyclops orcs for a little under $25. They look so cool on the battlefield--though they're missing a fortress to pummel!

[Runehardt]

Here's a quick concept for a stationary cannon.
Feel free to critique!
http://upload4.postimage.org/279546/loosecannon_sm_.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/279546/photo_hosting.html)
This could kick some butt. it might need a higher cost???

[quixotequest]

Here's a quick concept for a stationary cannon.
Feel free to critique!
http://upload4.postimage.org/279546/loosecannon_sm_.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/279546/photo_hosting.html)
This could kick some butt. it might need a higher cost???

I think it you've got it costed about right if you don't allow the double area explosion range. That seems far too powerful for the cost. On the other hand, a 30% chance to do DW9K damage from range 15 with 4 dice leaves us with nothing to really compare against for costing.

Are you imagining this as a Special Attk? I think you need to if you don't want to allow attack modifiers. Also are you thinking this is a fixed cannon, or can other teams move this with, say, 1/2 their normal move (rounded down) like some of the other suggestions here?

[skyknight]

I have a somewhat different thought on siege weapons that some might be interested in. On HQ there was a glyph contest which I had intended on entering (real world took me away for a couple of weeks). Anyway, my idea was a seige tower glyph to be used against the castle. It could be assigned to a squad and placed next to the castle to gain access. It basically used work a-la grapple gun to get you to the top.
Bannister

That is a great idea Bannister, I also would like to see something like LOTR's Grom for the castle. A nasty battering ram would be awesome. As for not discussing siege weapons because they are not released yet, well who friggin cares, Half of the fun of this site is speculation. I say rock on guys :headbang:

[Runehardt]

I think it you've got it costed about right if you don't allow the double area explosion range. That seems far too powerful for the cost. On the other hand, a 30% chance to do DW9K damage from range 15 with 4 dice leaves us with nothing to really compare against for costing.

Are you imagining this as a Special Attk? I think you need to if you don't want to allow attack modifiers. Also are you thinking this is a fixed cannon, or can other teams move this with, say, 1/2 their normal move (rounded down) like some of the other suggestions here?

I was imagining it has to stay in your starting zone. It might be interesting to have a central cannon on a swivel joint. You could race for it and whoever got adjacent to it first gained control of it. In that case you wouldn't need a card for it or a cost. It would be like a glyph. You would just need to anticipate who was going to gain control and set your order markers accordingly. you could make it so you could hand off the cannon to any of your own figures if they were adjacent to it also. So any figure you had adjacent to the cannon would have the option of using their own attack or the cannon. Your opponent would have to kill the last handler and then be adjacent or get adjacent to take over handling of the cannon. ???

[jcb231]

I've been working on artillery rules to use with the Arcane Ballista D&D figure. First thought was that it should move OR attack, not both, in a turn. Large attack range, some splash damage. Slow movement.

I'm undecided on crew. I think if Hasbro ever makes official artillery they should solve that problem by sculpting little crewmen onto the unit.

[quixotequest]

I've been working on artillery rules to use with the Arcane Ballista D&D figure. First thought was that it should move OR attack, not both, in a turn. Large attack range, some splash damage. Slow movement.

I'm undecided on crew. I think if Hasbro ever makes official artillery they should solve that problem by sculpting little crewmen onto the unit.

You'll have to tell me what you think of my siege weapons. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=684) We've found having a manning crew makes it fun and a little more challenging--which we think balances out the attack strengths (among other things). I can see where you are coming from about the move and shoot thing. So far because the Mage Knight weapons I use are triple-hex size bases the movement gets restricted a bit. But I'd be open that maybe it should be one or the other.

[jcb231]

I think of it as rolling into position and taking a while to set up. You can get away with having a pretty powerful ranged attack that shoots a really long distance if you do it that way.

[Mr. Underhill]

Many moons ago....

I was a member of a dark ages re-enactment group. The group made all our own weapons, and period costumes, food, and stuff.

The armourers guild built a half-scale trebuchet. It could throw heavy bags of flour 20-30 metres. It rocked.

How about a trebuchet that has limited movement, and must be manned by two/three infantry units to be operational. The trebuchet can have +++ life points, but it's weakness is it's reliability on having adjacent infantry units. Without them it is useless.

Strengths = range and attack
Weaknesses = limited movement and reliance on other units for attack

Special attack 1 = Hurl flaming munitions
Special attack 2 = Hurl rotting carcasses
Special attack 3 = Deplete enemy morale. Take any dead hero from the enemy and hurl the hero's defiled body at the unit which you are attacking. Place this unit on the chosen card (single or squad). The affected unit has lost morale and cannot play for the remainder of the turn.
Special attack 4 = Beseige. The unit can attack ruins. The siege unit rolls the D20. Rolling a 20 destroys the ruin. Isn't that what the seige unit is for anyway?


Hehehehe

http://home.amnet.net.au/~enigma1/heroscape/card-trebuchet.jpg


Mr. Underhill

[quixotequest]

WATCH OUT FOR THAT COW!!

. . .If I only had a trebuchet mini.

I'll get one as soon as I've found a Trojan Rabbit.