Mimring Problem

[Mr. Underhill]

G'day all,

Please forgive my noobiness. We had a little problem today - here's an example of the situation:

Mimring has two opposing units in line for special attack.
Mimring goes for the ol' flame on.
He/she rolls 4 dice + 1 for height, scoring 3 hits.
Each of the other players rolls in order of proximity to the burn.
Here's where we came unstuck...

This is confusing for me, so look at the picture and follow along...

http://home.amnet.net.au/~enigma1/heroscape/mimring-quandry.jpg

Dilemma:
(M) only rolls once for the special attack.
(M) has a height advantage over (A) but not over (B).
Does (M) roll an additional die for the height advantage?

How does this work?

(M) clearly has a height advantage on this special attack over unit (A)?
What about over unit (B)? How can (M) have the height advantage over (A) but not (B) with the same roll?

Am I totally missing something here?


Arrrgh. Please help. This was my dilemma while playing referee in a battle between master 9 years versus master 11 years.

Any assistance is most welcome.


Slàinte!


Mr. Underhill

[netherspirit]

There is no height advantage for special attacks.

[Bannister]

You don't roll for height with a special attack.

Bannister

EDIT: Yeah, what nether said. :D

[netherspirit]

I rocked you Bannister! I'm so freakin' speedy on the responses!

[Oprime]

It may also be worth metioning tha special attacks are NEVER enanced by other means either (glyphs ,other powers, etc..)

[Mr. Underhill]

Oh sh*ite.

Wow! I'm glad you guys nipped this one in the bud so early before I totally led my kids up the path to chaos.

Dang! I've just re-read the rules:

Special Attack Rule:
Special attacks can never be modified by glyphs, other special powers or height advantages.

I take it that if you are within range of an allied aura and you apply your special attack, then the aura does not apply?

Top marks to you guys for such a freaky prompt response. Damn!


Ciao!

Mr. Underhill

[Bannister]

I rocked you Bannister! I'm so freakin' speedy on the responses!

:bowdown:

:D

Bannister

[sigmazero13]

Mr. Underhill - Correct. Special Attacks roll exactly the number of dice specified.

In fact, the situation you present at the top is probably one of the PRIMARY reasons that this rule exists, because otherwise, things WOULD get messy :)

It's worth pointing out, though, that the figures rolling Defense still get any applicable bonuses, though. (In your example, this would be none, but in general, it could, like if Taelord was one hex higher than he is in your picture, for example).

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Mr. Underhill receives an 'A' for presentation.

The breath flames were a very nice touch and the the arrow indicating which way we were to look helped clarify any confusion

Nice work, Mr. Underhill! :P

[SlikkRikk]

Nice diagram. Always helps to provide a visual. ;)

[ultradoug]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/coolmondoug/mimring-quandry.jpg

[reapersaurus]

LOVE the pic, Underhill. :thumbsup:

[DoesntCompute]

Also worth noting that Mimring's fire attack goes in a straight line hitting the unit closest to Mimring first. If it was Raelin in the back and not Taelord, the front unit would get the defense bonus even if Raelin was destroyed in the attack.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/coolmondoug/mimring-quandry.jpg

Or to quote the classic video game, Blood when you shoot the flare gun at a Hooded cultist, they run towards you screaming, "AAAAA! It burns! It Burns!"

[RichardD]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

[allskulls]

He/she...
Your main concerns being answered, I would like to just point out that Mimring indeed is a "he".

And I agree with all here cool pic! :thumbsup:

...or should I say "hot pic"?

[Mr. Underhill]

Thanks for the positive feedback people. However, I could've avoided having to stage my little re-enactment if I'd only read the rule book properly. Hehehehehe :oops:

Cheers,

Mr. Underhill

[Mr. Underhill]

I would like to just point out that Mimring indeed is a "he".

Sorry, I was thinking more along the lines of the (human) player who is rolling for Mimring's attack. :oops:

:D

[ultradoug]

I demand more illastrations so i can make them funny by adding word bubbles!

[Taeblewalker]

Here's a related question. I understand that Mimring affects figures both under and over overhangs. So if he firelines figures who are both the same distance from him, who gets attacked first? The upper? The lower? Attacker's choice?

Sorry about not having a pic!

-Taeblewalker

[DoesntCompute]

I believe it would be attacker's choice.

I never thought of an overhang scenarior before. Against a really stupid opponent, Mimring could breath fire on 16 units!

[netherspirit]

I believe it would be attacker's choice.

I never thought of an overhang scenarior before. Against a really stupid opponent, Mimring could breath fire on 16 units!

Actually its a lot more than that. Its infinite.

You can build a cavern ontop of a cavern, on top of a cavern...oh you get the point.

[jcb231]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

I've always thought this. Would make things much clearer.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I believe it would be attacker's choice.

I never thought of an overhang scenarior before. Against a really stupid opponent, Mimring could breath fire on 16 units!

Actually its a lot more than that. Its infinite.

You can build a cavern ontop of a cavern, on top of a cavern...oh you get the point.

That's smarmy-ridiculous, Nether... :P

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

now THAT is a great idea! I love it! We should really get a committee together to do that.

[jcb231]

Yes, Mimring is the only figure that can attack an infinite number of figures without relying on d20 luck.

[Jason]

"Yes, Mimring is the only figure that can attack an infinite number of figures without relying on d20 luck."

DW8k can too using a same type map

[Sydcomebak]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

I've always thought this. Would make things much clearer.

Hmm, I might have a new project for this coming week...

[Mr. Underhill]

... if Taelord was one hex higher than he is in your picture, for example).

I admit that my kids and I were also a bit sketchy on this issue also. :oops:

From my recollection, the codex discusses height advantage under the heading "Attacking". Hence, when I read this (in my concrete and rigid thinking) I was thinking that the height advantage only applied to the attacker. However, in saying this, I instructed my squids to play the heignt advantage when defending also.


:?:
I'm guessing that the opportunities for playing a 2 x height advantage are very rare. In the master set, Grimnak is the tallest character (at 11), so he's the only one who could attack someone 10 or more levels below. Right?

Who's the tallest character to date?

Slàinte!

Mr. Underhill

[Mr. Underhill]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

Yeah, but I suppose that's what the rule book is for :D

Ciao!

Mr. Underhill

[AbducteeLeader]

I believe it would be attacker's choice.

I never thought of an overhang scenarior before. Against a really stupid opponent, Mimring could breath fire on 16 units!

Actually its a lot more than that. Its infinite.

You can build a cavern ontop of a cavern, on top of a cavern...oh you get the point.

Ah, I remember this from HQ like it was yesterday, I believe it came up in that riddles topic, along with some crazy scenarious that would almost never occur(such as valgaurd attack up to 5 figures newly engaging one each time without disengging any prior victims(assuming none die))

Ah, the good fun.

And to UD, I will grant you your request...as soon as I get home O_O.

[MacG]

I demand more illastrations so i can make them funny by adding word bubbles!

So when are you going to start making them funny? :twisted:

ba dump dump!

[Mr. Underhill]

So when are you going to start making them funny? :twisted:

Rrrrrrrreeeeeow! Get my friend here a saucer of milk, please! :lol:


Mr. Underhill

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

I've always thought this. Would make things much clearer.

Hmm, I might have a new project for this coming week...


:thumbsup:

[happyjosiah]

Ah, so the HQ is finally gone. But don't cry for it, Argentina. Because this new site is even better. Honestly. Already in this thread I have seen some sweet pics, great ideas, references to Blood (a personal fave of mine), and the prompt response times I came to expect from the HQ.
Anyway, you totally have my support for an illustrated FAQ. I will lend digital photographs, rules knowledge, and edit abilities as needed.

[Barfodor]

That would be really cool. Pictured FAQ's. UD could work on that. He does so much with pictures. That how he talks. Through them, hehe. :lol:

[Sydcomebak]

Anyway, you totally have my support for an illustrated FAQ. I will lend digital photographs, rules knowledge, and edit abilities as needed.

HJ has returned!

Let's get together on this, HJ. I'm thinking a locked sticky in the rules / FAQ section

[sigmazero13]

... if Taelord was one hex higher than he is in your picture, for example).

I admit that my kids and I were also a bit sketchy on this issue also. :oops:

From my recollection, the codex discusses height advantage under the heading "Attacking". Hence, when I read this (in my concrete and rigid thinking) I was thinking that the height advantage only applied to the attacker. However, in saying this, I instructed my squids to play the heignt advantage when defending also.
Indeed, height advantage applies to Defense, too :) It can make some figures very hard to kill; this is typically why many people who use glyphs try to NOT put them at the highest points, as they already get a significant advantage for being on the glyph, and don't need to compound it with being harder to hit :)


I'm guessing that the opportunities for playing a 2 x height advantage are very rare. In the master set, Grimnak is the tallest character (at 11), so he's the only one who could attack someone 10 or more levels below. Right?
Actually, it's the height of the "lower" figure that matters. If Grimnak is up high, his height doesn't matter. It depends on the height of the figure on lower ground. If Grimnak is on Level 10, and is "next to" a Tarn Viking Warrior on Level 1, they are not adjacent, as the height difference is more than the Viking Warrior's height. Neither Grimnak nor the Viking can attack each other.

However, if this was reversed (Tarn Viking on 10, Grimak on 1), then they WOULD be adjacent, as the height difference is less than Grimnak's height, and thus they could both attack each other.

Who's the tallest character to date?
Braxas is the tallest, with a height 13. Also, Su-Bak-Na and Nilfheim are both height 12. Grimnak is indeed tall, but he's not the tallest :)

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

this is typically why many people who use glyphs try to NOT put them at the highest points, as they already get a significant advantage for being on the glyph, and don't need to compound it with being harder to hit :)

Or put glyphs on a lava field space - high or low.
8)

[LilNewbie]

Glad you could make it, HJ!

Newb.

[Mr. Underhill]

... people who use glyphs try to NOT put them at the highest points, as they already get a significant advantage for being on the glyph, and don't need to compound it with being harder to hit

Wow! I never thought of that. My kids always place the glyphs high on the arena to make them hard to reach. However, whomever controls them usually* wins the game.


Mr. Underhill



* I say "usually" even though we've only been playing for about three days now, albeit not stop since we bought the game :D

[Sydcomebak]

HJ, if we are going to make an illustrated FAQ, we might want to see about getting it made into a .pdf. Maybe we should suggest it to the Codex Crew?

[bobofett]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

umm i think they do all have illustrations. at least for the most part. :?: :?: :?:

[netherspirit]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

umm i think they do all have illustrations. at least for the most part. :?: :?: :?:

Not sure which FAQ you are looking at that has pictures. :P

[bobofett]

Great pic! It'd make the FAQ so much more interesting if every question had an illustration.

umm i think they do all have illustrations. at least for the most part. :?: :?: :?:

Not sure which FAQ you are looking at that has pictures. :P

i was talking about the official rulebook.

[Taeblewalker]

Here is another scary thought.

Have multiple layers of caverns. For soldiers, place Marcus so that six soldiers are poking their heads above his feet and six more surround him from above. The roads and bridges can accomplish this nicely. Can you say three squads of 4 Mass? Possibly two plus the AE? At +1 attack? Sure you can!

But now here's the scary part. Bring in DW9K. Marcus is adjacent to all 12! Set up a scenario where a two space figure can do this, such as a Swog. This means that 16 Arrow Gruts (4 squads!) can be affected.

Now, place Braxas in the middle. Put 4 height figures like the Orcs or AE so that they are on[i] level 1 (feet are level 2, heads are level 5), and Braxas is in the middle of 8 figures, with her base on level 3. This just clears the Orcs' heads while keeping them adjacent. Level 6 overhang, level 7-10 for the next 8 Orcs. Level 11 overhang, level 12-15 for the next Orcs. Level 16 overhang, level 16-20 next 8 Orcs.
Braxas, at level 3 and height 13, would have adjacency up to height 16.

As this stands, on 25 Orcs can be adjacent. But wait! What if you placed a glacial base jut outward as each overhangs? Wouldn't this not add to the height? Then, the Orcs would be from levels 2-5, 6-9, 10-13, 14-17. This would mean that 32 figures would be adjacent to Braxas!

If you were the army with DW9k and Braxas, you can tell your opponent that he may take the higher ground on this "cool, new custom terrain you built." Then, place Braxas adjacent to every Orc on Valhalla, and watch the fun! Just don't roll Explosion attack dice like most people roll defense for a DW. All blanks.

This inspires me to make a new sig (really happened): 4 of my Tarns surrounding Krug, who is unwounded. Opponent's Jotun steps up: Wild Swing at Krug.

Taeblewalker

[Taeblewalker]

Sorry about the wonky italics!

[gibberish_47]

I believe it would be attacker's choice.

I never thought of an overhang scenarior before. Against a really stupid opponent, Mimring could breath fire on 16 units!

Actually its a lot more than that. Its infinite.

You can build a cavern ontop of a cavern, on top of a cavern...oh you get the point.

netherspirit is awesome! :D

AHHH!!! This forum is possesed by a netherspirit!! :shock:

[gibberish_47]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What I had written was Mimring can't hit an infinite number of figs, because the overhangs will eventually block his LoS.

[netherspirit]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What I had written was Mimring can't hit an infinite number of figs, because the overhangs will eventually block his LoS.

And you are correct. :);)

[mathguy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What I had written was Mimring can't hit an infinite number of figs, because the overhangs will eventually block his LoS.
There are plenty of figures that have body parts that stick out well over the base. So the terrain would not block LoS and Mimring can attack infinitely many figures. (This was discussed previously in the old Brain Teaser thread.)

[Jandars_Hope]

*Mwahahaha! A Fiendish Plan!*

[ultradoug]

:nopics:

[RichardD]

Yeah - I want to see a pic of that infinately tall column of overhangs :lol:

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What I had written was Mimring can't hit an infinite number of figs, because the overhangs will eventually block his LoS.
Now that was excellently, smarmy-ridiculously accurate!
:D

[Rodriquez]

flame seared marro....bit bony but oh so juicy on the inside?

Marro-nated taelord....it has that devilicous flavouring while retaining the cool tartness of pond grown marro...

[ultradoug]

Yeah - I want to see a pic of that infinately tall column of overhangs :lol:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/coolmondoug/test.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/coolmondoug/test.jpg

... etc

[bobofett]

What the hell those pic are all jumbled.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[RichardD]

Nowhere near infinate - I count about 15 levels. Must try harder - I want at least 1000 before you can consider it done :)

[ultradoug]

sorry that would spam kill the boards :D