The Book of Deathstrike Thrall

[awesomeunleashed]

The Book of Deathstrike Thrall

C3V Wave 2 - Age of Chaos – Valkrill’s Vengeance

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z356/SMO1971/Heroscape/Wave%2015/Wave%2015%20Cards/C3V_deathstrike_advanced4.jpg?t=1339113430

Printer-Friendly PDF (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3684&act=down)

MINDLESS PACK
After revealing an order marker on this card, roll the 20-sided die.
- If you roll a 1-5, you may take a turn with 1 Thrall you control.
- If you roll a 6-15, you may take a turn with up to 2 Thralls you control.
- If you roll a 16 or higher, you may take a turn with up to 3 Thralls you control.

RETURN TO THE GRAVE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 6.
After attacking with Return to the Grave Special Attack, destroy the attacking Deathstrike Thrall.

The figure used for this unit is D&D figure from the Deathknell set. Its model number and name is 59/Vampire Spawn.

Character Bio: Lightning crashed, illuminating Malren’s face as he trudged through the night.

He does not remember why he was out wandering in the rain this night; he just knows it has something to do with his wife. He remembers the young stranger he met this evening, and the promise that all his pain would vanish tonight.

He knows he must get home to teach the woman a lesson … so he trudges through the night.

At his door, his presence is barred. Anger fills Malren’s mind as he hurls himself at the wooden door.

I will not be locked out of my own home!!!

Malren notices an interesting thing: he hears his shoulder crack, but he feels no pain. He knows that the heavy wooden door should be battering his body, but his mind does not register the abuse.

The door finally gives way at the hinges. Malren is greeted with the sight of a fire and a small woman glaring at him.

“I told you never to come back here!” she shouts at him, raising a pan to warn him away.

Nobody raises a hand against me in my own home, least of all her!!!

Rage begins to build in Malren and his vision reddens around the edges. With each passing second, the rage builds, and his vision becomes darker; soon he can’t see anything at all.

When the rage subsides and his vision returns, Malren sees that he is standing over the crumpled form of his wife. He feels his strength waning--gravity pulls him to his knees. He teeters there for a moment, then starts to fall forward. His mind instructs his arms to catch himself, but he has no control. Malren collapses in a heap next to his wife, staring into her open and lifeless eyes.

He has but one thought as darkness fades upon him forever.

At least no one else will have her ...


--*--


Nicholas Esenwein watched through a window as the macabre scene played out before him.

“Interesting,” he murmured, before vanishing into the night.

-Rulings and Clarifications-

TBA

-Combinations and Synergies-


Synergy Benefits Received
Nicholas Esenwein (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37706): BLOODBORN RISING
As a Thrall, a previously destroyed Deathstrike Thrall may be revived using Nicholas Esenwein's BLOODBORN RISING power.

Skull Demon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41696): VALKRILL ATTACK AURA 1 1
As a Valkrill follower with a Range of 1, the Deathstrike Thrall may benefit from the Skull Demon's VALKRILL ATTACK AURA 1 ability.

Zombie Hulk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35963): PARALYZING FEAR
As Undead, the Deathstrike Thrall may benefit from the Zombie Hulk's PARALYZING FEAR defense penalty when attacking other figures.


Synergy Benefits Offered & Received
Thralls: MINDLESS PACK
Deathstrike Thralls may use MINDLESS PACK to take turns with other Thralls, and other Thralls may use MINDLESS PACK to take turns with Deathstrike Thralls.

Thralls:
Preyblood Thrall (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37727)
Deathstrike Thrall
-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

TBA

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

TBA

Power Ranking and Master Index

Deathstrike Thrall: Their powerful self-sacrifice attack synergizes nicely with Nicky and the Preybloods. But it does, you know, kill them. C+


http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z356/SMO1971/Heroscape/Wave%2015/dt_X.jpg?t=1332890056

[awesomeunleashed]

Did I miss anything?

I love how you can put all of your OMs on one type of Thrall and then never even take a turn with that kind of Thrall if you don't want to.

[ZBeeblebrox]

looks good :up:

I love sending out your Deathstrikes to suicide to hurt a main hero, and then using the Preybloods Hunger to rush in and mop up. Great one/two punch.

Then Nick flies around and picks on the squadies and respawns the destroyed Deathstrikes...wicked fun :twisted:

[Arch-vile]

Can the thralls face common squads well though? I think they would be awesome against heroes (like elves or a Command Courier build), but 10 squad members would he a tough match. I guess their 3 normal attack doesn't go unused against squads though!

[ZBeeblebrox]

Can the thralls face common squads well though? I think they would be awesome against heroes (like elves or a Command Courier build), but 10 squad members would he a tough match. I guess their 3 normal attack doesn't go unused against squads though!

The Tralls work best with Nick...that is the main point. The Tralls take out th heroes that could give Nick some trouble and Nick goes around killing Squadies, healing and creating a Trall...and then overextending to take another turn, rinse/repeat. The tandom of Thrall s and Nick makes a good over all team.

[Seb from space]

You should change the preyblood thrall in the zombie hulk power.

[ZBeeblebrox]

You should change the preyblood thrall in the zombie hulk power.
Thanks Seb...got it

[Bloody Bogle]

Zombie Hulk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35963): PARALYZING FEAR
As Undead, the Preyblood Thrall may benefit from the Zombie Hulk's PARALYZING FEAR defense penalty when attacking other figures.


As Seb said, change this.

[awesomeunleashed]

You should change the preyblood thrall in the zombie hulk power.
Thanks Seb...got it

Ah, thanks. I had a feeling that I would miss something...

[Arch-vile]

I forgot Nick had overextended... that easily makes up for it. 2 turns with healing and resurrection each round. Deathstrike suicide is really just "death until Nick gets an Order Marker again".

[1Mmirg]

I forgot Nick had overextended... that easily makes up for it. 2 turns with healing and resurrection each round. Deathstrike suicide is really just "death until Nick gets an Order Marker again".

Well, it's not quite that easy, but that's the idea. When things are going well, it's a temporary death, but he's only bringing so many thralls back. In time attrition catches up, unless you can pull out the win before then...

[Sir Dendrik]

I wonder if there's a mathematical breakdown for when to use Deathstrike... In the game I played with them I pretty much always used it unless I had height.

My idea was that if they can go out and kill a squad and themselves, then that's better than missing and letting the squad kill the thrall next turn. Against heroes it's pretty much always worth it to Deathstrike.

It stinks to be in the end game with a few Deathstrikes, because they're either neutered or you have some difficult decisions to make. In the game we played I failed to kill my opponent's last Skeleton with a normal attack from the Deathstrike, and it went on to take the game. Wondering if I should have used Return to the Grave so the game would have been a draw instead of a loss...

These guys more or less outclass the Preybloods. Not really, but they get close. Deathstrike is always an asset, but I have yet to use Blood Hunger. Preybloods have their niche, but I'd rather spam Deathstrikes and not have to worry about setting up Blood Hunger.

[Son of Arathorn]

I wonder if there's a mathematical breakdown for when to use Deathstrike... In the game I played with them I pretty much always used it unless I had height.

My idea was that if they can go out and kill a squad and themselves, then that's better than missing and letting the squad kill the thrall next turn. Against heroes it's pretty much always worth it to Deathstrike.

It stinks to be in the end game with a few Deathstrikes, because they're either neutered or you have some difficult decisions to make. In the game we played I failed to kill my opponent's last Skeleton with a normal attack from the Deathstrike, and it went on to take the game. Wondering if I should have used Return to the Grave so the game would have been a draw instead of a loss...

These guys more or less outclass the Preybloods. Not really, but they get close. Deathstrike is always an asset, but I have yet to use Blood Hunger. Preybloods have their niche, but I'd rather spam Deathstrikes and not have to worry about setting up Blood Hunger.

I don't think one can say that one of the thralls is better than the other, since they're meant to be used together, in the same build. The whole idea here is that you can use Mindless pack to activate a couple of thralls (say, a DS and then a PB), use Return to the Grave to get a couple of wounds on a Hero, and then be able to use Blood Hunger against that Hero to bring it down. It's actually a very useful system.

[Arch-vile]

Deathstrikes have the nice 6 attack, but preyblood's longevity helps it a lot too. Nick has to do less when all your Thralls aren't digging their own graves and jumping in them. Don't the Preybloods get extra move for a wounded hero too? That's another small advantage.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Deathstrikes have the nice 6 attack, but preyblood's longevity helps it a lot too. Nick has to do less when all your Thralls aren't digging their own graves and jumping in them. Don't the Preybloods get extra move for a wounded hero too? That's another small advantage.

That's the point of the combo. The Deathstrike uses it powerful 6 dice attack to wound a hero, and then the Preyblood get bonus move and attack when moving towards a that wounded hero. Then Nick flies around to kill weak units to spawn more Thralls.
:twisted:

[Arch-vile]

Yes I was agreeing with that. That's why a mix of preybloods and deathstrikes is much better than all of one or the other- quite a nice design feat for customscape.

Saves everyone having to buy 6 of each when 3 DS + 3 PB work fine.

[Son of Arathorn]

Yes I was agreeing with that. That's why a mix of preybloods and deathstrikes is much better than all of one or the other- quite a nice design feat for customscape.

Saves everyone having to buy 6 of each when 3 DS + 3 PB work fine.

3 DS and 5PB. :D.

Actually, with the armies I've played, you want 1 more Preyblood than Deathstrikes if you're limited to 150 points, anything above that you should do 2 extra PB's. Dunno why, it just seems to work well.

[Sir Dendrik]

Valid points all around, but I will definitely always take more Deathstrikes than Preybloods. This is Squadscape, not Heroscape. The Preybloods are vanilla most of the time, whereas the Deathstrikes always have the option to Return to the Grave.

[Xotli]

These guys more or less outclass the Preybloods. Not really, but they get close. Deathstrike is always an asset, but I have yet to use Blood Hunger. Preybloods have their niche, but I'd rather spam Deathstrikes and not have to worry about setting up Blood Hunger.

You often don't have to work that hard. In the last game I played with thralls, Nick flew over to Tul-Bak-Ra, who had a Marro squaddie beside him (teleported in as a reinforcement, natch). Instead of attacking Toolbox, Nick took out the squaddie, replacing him with a previously destroyed Deathstrike. My next turn is on thralls, I roll enough to move 2 thralls, first the Deathstrike kamikazes on TBR to put even more wounds on him, next my closest Preyblood is getting +3 attack, as long as he's close enough to reach TBR, which, with +3 move, he is. I didn't really set anything up, it just all worked out that way. (Toolbox died, of course. :twisted:)

[1Mmirg]

Yeah, I'll agree that Deathstrikes are better in a lot of ways, but Xotli is right that getting Blood Hunger to work isn't too hard if you're playing against heroes at all. (Pure Squadscape is a beater for Preybloods, but that's just how it works--we have to price units based on their optimal values, not just their average use.)

Also, Preybloods do actually work as a swarm quite well without Nick. Don't try that with Deathstrikes! ;)

[Heroscapeguy]

A question about MINDLESS PACK: can I take a turn with each thrall individually, (one thrall moves and attacks, the next thrall moves and attacks, and so on) or do I have to move with them all at once, then attack with them all at once?

I'm guessing it's the first one, but I want to make sure.

[awesomeunleashed]

A question about MINDLESS PACK: can I take a turn with each thrall individually, (one thrall moves and attacks, the next thrall moves and attacks, and so on) or do I have to move with them all at once, then attack with them all at once?

I'm guessing it's the first one, but I want to make sure.

You are correct. They are common heroes, not squads, so you take turns with each one individually (just like Elementals).

[Heroscapeguy]

Thanks, awsomeunleashed.

[Xotli]

A question about MINDLESS PACK: can I take a turn with each thrall individually, (one thrall moves and attacks, the next thrall moves and attacks, and so on) ...

Not only can you, you must. That's what the card says to do.

[The CEE]

I had this question arise during a game today. Let's say I reveal a numbered order marker on a deathstrike thrall and roll a 1 for mindless pack, meaning I can only activate a single thrall this turn. The card reads:
you may take a turn with 1 thrall you controlDoes the one thrall I activate have to be a deathstrike (because I revealed an order marker on his card), or can I choose to use a preyblood instead?

[MegaSilver]

I had this question arise during a game today. Let's say I reveal a numbered order marker on a deathstrike thrall and roll a 1 for mindless pack, meaning I can only activate a single thrall this turn. The card reads:
you may take a turn with 1 thrall you controlDoes the one thrall I activate have to be a deathstrike (because I revealed an order marker on his card), or can I choose to use a preyblood instead?

Yes. Choose any one Thrall you control.

[The CEE]

I had this question arise during a game today. Let's say I reveal a numbered order marker on a deathstrike thrall and roll a 1 for mindless pack, meaning I can only activate a single thrall this turn. The card reads:
you may take a turn with 1 thrall you controlDoes the one thrall I activate have to be a deathstrike (because I revealed an order marker on his card), or can I choose to use a preyblood instead?

Yes. Choose any one Thrall you control.Nice, that's what we ended up doing in the game. It's great that the thralls have that little bit of extra versatility. Thanks for the quick response MegaSilver!

[flameslayer93]

So you can use any thralls you have with an OM on the Deathstrikers? Kato for the undead. :lol:

[Arch-vile]

You can put your OMs on any figure with the Mindless Pack ability, the Preybloods have the exact same power. It gives them nice flexibility since they aren't the most powerful figures.

[MegaSilver]

So you can use any thralls you have with an OM on the Deathstrikers? Kato for the undead. :lol:

It goes for any Thrall that has the power, too.

Of course if all the Thralls die that have an OM on it, then you can't take a turn with another Thrall because you couldn't use the power in the first place.

[heroscaper2010]

If me and my opponent are down to our last figures, and I attack with Return To The Grave SA, if I kill my opponent's figure, is it a draw or a win for me?

[MegaSilver]

If me and my opponent are down to our last figures, and I attack with Return To The Grave SA, if I kill my opponent's figure, is it a draw or a win for me?

A draw.

[heroscaper2010]

Thanks!

[Xotli]

If me and my opponent are down to our last figures, and I attack with Return To The Grave SA, if I kill my opponent's figure, is it a draw or a win for me?

A draw.

MegaSilver is absolutely right. Victory conditions are checked at the end of each turn.

[Ashus]

If me and my opponent are down to our last figures, and I attack with Return To The Grave SA, if I kill my opponent's figure, is it a draw or a win for me?

A draw.

MegaSilver is absolutely right. Victory conditions are checked at the end of each turn.

This exact situation happened in my tourney match tonight... I almost played it to a draw, but ended up rolling one less skull than required to make the kill.

Obviously, I lost, but holy moly, these guys are actually a lot of fun to play with Nicholas. Nick brought back about 10 thralls, so I got to use RttG six or seven times.

What I found worked well for me, this one time, on this one map (so your mileage will vary), was against squad units. If you can manage a 3 attack vs 3 defense, the odds are favorable for a normal attack. Even better if you can get height. Attacking someone on height almost always required the RttG SA to kill.

Going up against heroes I would highly recommend RttG as long as there are more squad units for Nicholas to eat, otherwise you risk losing the potential 4 attack dice (of up to three attacks per turn) with no potential to return them to the battlefield.

I would rank this unit as a solid B- (instead of the C+ they have now), just because of the ability to return them to the battlefield for another massive attack. And if you have to price them based on best case scenario, you should rank them based on best case scenario. ;)

[vegietarian18]

A Deathstrike uses RTTGSA on Tul-Bak-Ra. He gets a wound. Can TBR use Teleport Reinforcements to bring a Marro to the same place that the Deathstrike stood/stands on?

[Xotli]

A Deathstrike uses RTTGSA on Tul-Bak-Ra. He gets a wound. Can TBR use Teleport Reinforcements to bring a Marro to the same place that the Deathstrike stood/stands on?

Speaking not as a C3V Rules Team member, but just as a bloke with an opinion, I think so. I'm not sure I can adequately articulate why though.

[Son of Arathorn]

A Deathstrike uses RTTGSA on Tul-Bak-Ra. He gets a wound. Can TBR use Teleport Reinforcements to bring a Marro to the same place that the Deathstrike stood/stands on?

Speaking not as a C3V Rules Team member, but just as a bloke with an opinion, I think so. I'm not sure I can adequately articulate why though.

Because Return to Grave Special Attack says to remove the figure after attacking, and Teleport Reinforcements says to place the figures after receiving wounds?

:shrug:

[awesomeunleashed]

I'd say myself that "after attacking" happens after wounds are dealt, and so after Teleport.

[kevindola]

I'd say myself that "after attacking" happens after wounds are dealt, and so after Teleport.

Is there a precedent somewhere for differentiating or not differentiating between attacking and receiving wounds?

In my mind they would be separate so the order would go:

attack
after attack abilities
wounds received (if applicable)
after wounds received abilities

.....Unless the combat dice rolled/resolution of wounds all constitute the 'attack'

[vegietarian18]

A Deathstrike uses RTTGSA on Tul-Bak-Ra. He gets a wound. Can TBR use Teleport Reinforcements to bring a Marro to the same place that the Deathstrike stood/stands on?

Speaking not as a C3V Rules Team member, but just as a bloke with an opinion, I think so. I'm not sure I can adequately articulate why though.

Because Return to Grave Special Attack says to remove the figure after attacking, and Teleport Reinforcements says to place the figures after receiving wounds?

:shrug:

I'd say myself that "after attacking" happens after wounds are dealt, and so after Teleport.

Yeah, this is really the problem. Are attacking and receiving wounds one simultaneous action? If so, then TBR cannot use his power. If not, he can.

[dalu]

Let's take a look at all other "after attacking" powers, do they trigger before, when or after wounds are dealt ?

Battle Frenzy (Frost Giant of Morh) --> after
After attacking with this Frost Giant of Morh, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you may attack again with this Frost Giant of Morh.

Toxic Skin (Kee-Mo-Shi) --> after
After attacking, you must roll the 20-sided die once for each figure adjacent to Kee-Mo-Shi. If you roll a 17 or higher, that figure receives one wound. Soulborgs are not affectd by Toxic Skin.

Mortal Strike (Master of the Hunt) --> after
After attacking an opponent's Unique Hero with this Master of the Hunt's normal attack, roll 1 attack die for each wound inflicted in that attack. For each additional skull rolled, place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

Arcane Bolt Special Attack (Sharwin Wildborn) --> after
Range 5 + Special. Attack 3. The first target of Arcane Bolt Special Attack must be within a Range of 5. After attacking with Arcane Bolt Special Attack, if the defending figure receives at least 1 wound, you may choose a figure that was adjacent to the defending figure at the beginning of that attack and attack that chosen figure with Arcan Bolt Special Attack. You may continue attacking with Arcane Bolt Special Attack in this manner until you fail to inflict a wound. A figure cannot be attacked more than once in a turn with Arcane Bolt Special Attack.

Gunner Special Attack (Mok) --> after
Range 5. Attack 3. After attacking normally, Mok may attack with Gunner Special attack once for each Dwarf figure on this card. While engaged, Mok may target and attack non-adjacent figures with Gunner Special Attack. Mok cannot attack the same figure twice with Gunner Special Attack.

Plasma Surge (Havech Eradicators) --> after (because if you roll a 18-20 you must know if the first target is still alive or not)
After attacking a non-adjacent figure with a Havech Eradicator you control, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-6, destroy that Havech Eradicator. If you roll a 7-17, that Havech Eradicator is safe. If you roll an 18-20, you may attack again with that Havech Eradicator.

So I suppose that:
Return To The Grave Special Attack (Deathstrike Thrall) should also trigger after
Range 1. Attack 6. After attacking with Return to the Grave Special Attack, destroy the attacking Deathstrike Thrall.

Let's now also take a look at Teleport Reinforcements (Tul-Bak-Ra) --> it trigggers when wounds are dealt.
When Tul-Bak-Ra receives one or more wounds from an opposing figure's Normal or Special Attack but is not destroyed, you may choose one friendly Marro Squad figure for every wound Tul-Bak-Ra just received. Place the chosen figure(s) on any empty space(s) adjacent to Tul-Bak-Ra. If the teleported figure(s) are engaged, they will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

---
Back to the question:
A Deathstrike uses RTTGSA on Tul-Bak-Ra. He gets a wound. Can TBR use Teleport Reinforcements to bring a Marro to the same place that the Deathstrike stood/stands on?
My answer is NO.

The sequence is:
1) The Deathstrike Thrall attacks Tul-Bak-Ra with RTTGSA.
2) Wounds are dealt, Tul-Bak-Ra can use Teleport Reinforcements when wounds are dealt.
3) The Deathstrike Thrall is destroyed after wounds are dealt.

[vegietarian18]

Mortal Strike is the most convincing; it says "After attacking... for each wound inflicted in that attack". That implies that attacking and placing wounds ARE one and the same. Thanks dalu.

[Arch-vile]

Skull Demon synergy needs added here. :)

[awesomeunleashed]

"Needs added"? :p

Fixed. The Preyblood and Nick need it also, though I can't edit those.