Melee is useless

[CornPuff]

Anyone else have a problem with melee units lateley?

It just seems the AE, the Kravs, Microcorp, Deadeye,Marro Warriors, Q9 and Syv have been winning all the battles recently. Poor Krug doesn't stand a chance.

I feel the only melee unit that's any good is Drake. I wish I had a set of EOVs, because I could probably stand to play with them too.

Oh, so sad. The death of melee. :cry:

[django]

i love melee units but my nephew 9yo has been destroying me with ae,marrow,death walkers,he likes guns i like swords.anyway what do you have for trade i have a set of eovs.

[Agent Minivann]

I drafted Grimnak vs a bunch of squads plus Syv last time I played. Grimmy was very effective. I usually try to get one strong melee unit every game. Range is nice, but wounds pile on really quick if you get someone with >5 Attack into the shuffle.

[Teamski]

Melee can suffer at the hands of ranged units. You can counteract this by creating balanced maps with lots of LOS blockage. Make sure your army is balanced as well by having both ranged and melee units in the mix....

-Ski

[bluekitsune13]

Here's something I use to help balance the range/melee issue, especially for height.

Have a tall mountain on the map, and have pieces of roads that are no less then 5 hexes high going to the top. It has to be at least 5. Then make a longer path up the side.

The reason is that if you look at most range units, they have a height of 4. So if you make a road tile 5 hexes high, no matter how much their movement, they couldn't climb it. However most of the melee units have 5 height, and adding the road tiles will increase their movement enough to climb up. So while the range units must take the long way around to the top, the melee units can simply hop up the road.

[EyeOfSauron]

Maybe you should just play the "Braveheart" variant once and awhile where only melee units are used and give the ranged units a rest... :D


.

[Pilgrim]

You need to draft some ranged units yourself to give your melee cover, and to counter his ranged units. There are enough ranged units in the game now that you can easily counter-draft range vs. range.

And if you haven't already, go buy more RTTFF expansions. Trees help level things out.

[UranusPChicago]

Anyone else have a problem with melee units lateley?

It just seems the AE, the Kravs, Microcorp, Deadeye,Marro Warriors, Q9 and Syv have been winning all the battles recently. Poor Krug doesn't stand a chance.

I feel the only melee unit that's any good is Drake. I wish I had a set of EOVs, because I could probably stand to play with them too.

Oh, so sad. The death of melee. :cry:

You also might look at using a swarm tactic against someone who lives and dies by range.

For 10 more points than the cost of AE you can pick up 12 Blade Gruts. Unless he rolls flawlessly, chances are strong that you will eventually break through the barrage of fire and get his AE. Plus every turn that he loses a unit, his total attack decreases by one unit. You will be a ble to move 4 every turn for quite a while (8 deaths).

Same thing with the KM and Microcorp.... For the same price (100) I can pick up 8 Romans or 8 Sacred Band. More times than not 3 units will succumb to 8 units.

Basically, you have to be willing to lose some figures for the greater good.

[Sapper]

There are many great melee units out there. Just play around with some good combos of units. Some of the melee units I like:

Vipers-any of them. My son wiped me out this weekend with x2 venocs, x1 Armoc, x1 Onyx, Venoc warlord. Snakes are great.

Sentinels- shields of valor, what more can I say. Add Raelin and they get even better.

Monks- Stealth leap is great and "hundred hand slap" is awesome.

Marden hounds-fast, plague and still attack= great!

Charos-He has 9 life and has counter strike.

Don't under estimate melee.

[KeeperOfPeace]

I understand how you feel CornPuff. I too love sword battles. Sadly, my brother will usually field things with guns. What I do is take Archers, which do fit the sword and shield style, and give you ranged units at the same time.

[daevablacc]

The problem is in trying to field an ALL sword army. In real life that generally didn't happen. You need both. If he never uses melee and you go for a balanced approach, he will find himself in a world of pain. :eat: Also, don't go too hero heavy.

[DoesntCompute]

My opponents have been going massively range heavy lately. I just need to draft counter range for several game sessons and kick their range butts to move them off of that strategy.

[maxo-texas]

Add Sergeant Drake to your side. His therian speed makes him immune to ranged attack.

Braxas is a possibility too.

[toddrew]

Add Sergeant Drake to your side. His therian speed makes him immune to ranged attack.


Quick, and hopefully not too obnoxious, point of clarification: Drake is only immune to ranged normal attacks, ranged specials will pin down that Thorian Speed :)

[K/H_Addict]

melee useless? what are you on man? Last game i played, i had my squad of Tagawa Samurai at 7 attack, with ease. The first one died too fast at the hands of a ranged DW9000 attack, but Tagawa number two was able to move in, engage, attack (unsuccessful), defend and counter strike that DW9000 to his death next turn. those 2 Tagawa's eliminated a little 1/2 (maybe? i did the math in another thread...) of my opponents 1000 point army. 1/8 of my army devastated 1/2 of the opposing forces. Melee is very far from useless, my friend. you just need to know how to work them. Send in weaker units such as finn and thorgrim for their spirits, plop them on a good card (tagawa are my faves now :wink: :D ) and use the range you have to weaken the opponent. thats how i play. too much range sucks, because if your opponent does manage to get past it, the range is too weak to defend them selves in close combat

[reapersaurus]

uh - ranged units usually don;t have many attack dice.

This isn't a trivial fact, I wouldn;t think. :shrug:

It sounds like perhaps you are playing the wrong maps, where a ranged force can take high ground and force the other melee units to attack up the hill at them.

Try playing on level ground, melee vs ranged, and you may find that melee will wipe the floor with ranged more often. Many melee units can close the distance and engage the enemy ranged unit with only absorbing one ranged shot (less if there's cover)

[shakey_snake]

DW8k can thrash large formations of frozen 4th mass.


Deadeye Dan is a melee favorer's best friend.

[Nwojedi]

brunak usually makes quick work of ranged units. Especially if he carries someone with him, that he can set up high after units on higher ground.

[SlikkRikk]

Melee is why I love games. :twisted:

[TheRealQ]

Usually if a player has strictly ranged units they are going to have just one or two high points that they are going to stand ground on and wait for their attack. If you have a full melee army take your time and move your entire army into position just outside their range. Once they are all in position charge in and overrun. It will take him longer to move his figures to height than it will take you to move masses across low ground, so when you charge him you should outnumber his forward position greatly. Once you have destroyed his forward position, after losing a lot of figures, you will have the high ground and the remainder of his forces are going to be back at the starting position and easy pickings for melee toe-to-toe.

Now this isn't always going to work...it depends on the battlefield. If you are seperated by a river and a bridge he will probably eat you up. But even in this case he can be overcome by figures with slither and flying.

Every battlefield will need a different strategy and I don't care to run through them all unless specifically asked but there are a couple drafting picks to consider when fighting melee vs ranged. Several good ones have already been pointed out so I will give a few guidelines rather than pin down specifics.

1) Ranged units can't kill what they can't hit. Pick units with high defense or that have some type of evasive power.

2) Most ranged units ('cept borgs) have a weak defense. Don't concern yourself with a high attack unless he has a soulborg.

3) Speed! He can't take the high ground if you get there first. Pick some units with 6 or more movement to lead the charge.

4) Face it some of your units are going to die. So, back them up. Don't pick a common squad unless you can pick two or more. There are a couple exceptions to this rule (ie Sentinels) because they are either hard to kill and/or they move fast enough to not let the opponent get a shot off.

Thats it for general drafting, I know I didn't cover everything but its a good start.

Oh, back to the overrun strategy. Nothing says you have to attack his guys in position to start. You can always blow past them with Drake, EOV, or DW7000 and say hello to the figures in his start area. And if he manages to get a large group of his figures on a hill send in DW7000 or some monks for crowd control.

[bobofett]

I love melee. Braveheart style :chainsaw: . Just move in fast units like armoc vipers kill the ranged units and then move in with the up close guys and :deadhorse: . it helps when you have multiples of the same squad.

[Taeblewalker]

It seems both Krug and Bravehear (Alastair) are broken. Krug rarely gets to roll his high attacks. With 3 Defense, he just doesn't have much staying power at the 4-7 wound range, especially when attack by squads. He very often goes from 2 or three wounds to dead in one turn.

Alastair's high life never seems to last very long. The MacDirk Warriors are almost comical without him. Alastair really needs to stay in the back, overextending in the safety of his start zone.

"I do nothing this round!"
"Ouch! I overextend and do nothing again!"

His 5 Attack is deceptive, as he has a big target painted on his chest, much like Raelin's and Krug's.

-Taeblewalker

[bushi96]

I am the guy that likes playing the ranged attack. Here is my tactic- I over-emphasize my ranged figures. Meaning I make a big deal of rushing to high ground, putting lots of counters on them, etc. But I always place a more powerful group of melee figures in front.

The opposing player almost always falls for the trick. They focus on rushing in on the ranged units. As they do I get one or two volleys off and engage as many as possible with the melee units. Then I switch focus and go all melee on them.

And if they dont rush the ranged units, fine. I pick them off slowly one by one.

[EDIT] Vipers have foiled this plan on more than one occasion...

[Teamski]

Usually if a player has strictly ranged units they are going to have just one or two high points that they are going to stand ground on and wait for their attack. If you have a full melee army take your time and move your entire army into position just outside their range. Once they are all in position charge in and overrun. It will take him longer to move his figures to height than it will take you to move masses across low ground, so when you charge him you should outnumber his forward position greatly. Once you have destroyed his forward position, after losing a lot of figures, you will have the high ground and the remainder of his forces are going to be back at the starting position and easy pickings for melee toe-to-toe.



This is a very sound tactic. Very insightful. Why play into the other player's hands? I like this one a lot..... ;)

-Ski

[Joah]

In my last game, all the melee units came up huge. I really like the snowmen too. Attack/Defense good. Jumping all around glaciers GREAT.

[TheRealQ]

This is a very sound tactic. Very insightful. Why play into the other player's hands? I like this one a lot..... ;)

-Ski

Thanks, its not often someone actually appreciates something I contribute. :D

[TheRealQ]

It seems both Krug and Bravehear (Alastair) are broken. Krug rarely gets to roll his high attacks. With 3 Defense, he just doesn't have much staying power at the 4-7 wound range, especially when attack by squads. He very often goes from 2 or three wounds to dead in one turn.

Alastair's high life never seems to last very long. The MacDirk Warriors are almost comical without him. Alastair really needs to stay in the back, overextending in the safety of his start zone.

"I do nothing this round!"
"Ouch! I overextend and do nothing again!"

His 5 Attack is deceptive, as he has a big target painted on his chest, much like Raelin's and Krug's.

-Taeblewalker

If they are broken then don't use them. One of the great things about HS is that you have options. I have never had a problem with Krug and have killed more than his point value with him almost every time I have used him. But that is me, perhaps your playing style requires a different set of figures. I can't possibly tell you what I do differently but I can tell you that I never use him to take out squads of ranged units.

Alastair...I can't be reading your post right...you would have Alastair sit in the starting zone damaging himself to pump up his buddies. This must be humor so I'll just laugh and ignore it as real strategy, you almost got me there. :lol:

[Rodriquez]

wanna kill ranged units? just draft drake...

[jcb231]

Anyone else have a problem with melee units lateley?

It just seems the AE, the Kravs, Microcorp, Deadeye,Marro Warriors, Q9 and Syv have been winning all the battles recently. Poor Krug doesn't stand a chance.

I feel the only melee unit that's any good is Drake. I wish I had a set of EOVs, because I could probably stand to play with them too.

Oh, so sad. The death of melee. :cry:

You also might look at using a swarm tactic against someone who lives and dies by range.

For 10 more points than the cost of AE you can pick up 12 Blade Gruts. Unless he rolls flawlessly, chances are strong that you will eventually break through the barrage of fire and get his AE. Plus every turn that he loses a unit, his total attack decreases by one unit. You will be a ble to move 4 every turn for quite a while (8 deaths).

Same thing with the KM and Microcorp.... For the same price (100) I can pick up 8 Romans or 8 Sacred Band. More times than not 3 units will succumb to 8 units.

Basically, you have to be willing to lose some figures for the greater good.

Good that there are folks out there in 'net land that love the swarms. I adore swarming, but lots of folks don't have the stomach for it....somethign about sending figures through the meat-grinder that turns people off.

Vipers and Orcs are great swarmers, so are Marro Drones if you're rolling well.

[jcb231]

It seems both Krug and Bravehear (Alastair) are broken. Krug rarely gets to roll his high attacks. With 3 Defense, he just doesn't have much staying power at the 4-7 wound range, especially when attack by squads. He very often goes from 2 or three wounds to dead in one turn.

Alastair's high life never seems to last very long. The MacDirk Warriors are almost comical without him. Alastair really needs to stay in the back, overextending in the safety of his start zone.

"I do nothing this round!"
"Ouch! I overextend and do nothing again!"

His 5 Attack is deceptive, as he has a big target painted on his chest, much like Raelin's and Krug's.

-Taeblewalker

Use Saylind and Kelda to heal him up.

[dlaw008]

Something that I find valuable about melee units is that they tie up your opponents figs. In scenarios where you try to capture ground, hold ground, or race for certain glyphs, just being able to engage your opponent on your terms can be huge. Most times opponents will be reluctant to suffer that leaving strike, so if they order that unit at all, any figures you have engaged will sit still (and if you use gladiatrons they have no choice). Give you an extra turn or two to snag that precious glyph.

[Jason]

I have yet to see any type of Orc/Viper swarm army that wasn't a breeze to beat

[MBSowards]

If nothing else melee helps get rid of the Krav Maga. And if it wasn't for melee then the summoning glyph wouldn't be nearly as helpful.

On top of all of these things, some of the neatest looking characters are melee.

[UranusPChicago]

I have yet to see any type of Orc/Viper swarm army that wasn't a breeze to beat

You've never played anyone who played them correctly then.

[Keebler]

I generally like to play high defence melee units up front suported by ranged units to the rear. Generally if my opponent is only using ranged I'll close ground and make him pay dearly for any kills he makes on my melee units while they do. If he plays melee I hang back and use the ranged units to pick off his units while my melee units shield the ranged units from attack. Seems to me that the best chance to win comes from a balanced force that can respond to the enemy. I really haven't seen alot of range only armies winning the day.

[bobofett]

I have yet to see any type of Orc/Viper swarm army that wasn't a breeze to beat

You've never played anyone who played them correctly then.

if you use the orcs with tornak and the swog you can do alot. alone the orcs suck but because the orc heroes power up the underlings the LOW attack increases quite quickly.

[Jason]

Against any Viper/Orc army:

-With superior range you can pick off the Vipers before they get to you which makes them incredibly easy

-Against Orcs you can take down their low life Heroes before they get to you and by eliminating their support units the regular units are nothing. The Swogs are an obvious 1st or 2nd Target. The only Hero with Orcs that is not a quick kill is Krug and he does not boost their weak attacks. Gladitrons are great in preventing the orcs from using their disengage

[bobofett]

I generally like to play high defence melee units up front suported by ranged units to the rear. Generally if my opponent is only using ranged I'll close ground and make him pay dearly for any kills he makes on my melee units while they do. If he plays melee I hang back and use the ranged units to pick off his units while my melee units shield the ranged units from attack. Seems to me that the best chance to win comes from a balanced force that can respond to the enemy. I really haven't seen alot of range only armies winning the day.

ive done it before.
mcreech
dw9k
dw8k
4th mass.

vs.

sacred band
legonaires
tarn vikings
knights

dw9k took out legionares, dw8k took out sacred band 4th mass beat the vikings and mcreech w/ dw9k eliminated the knights.

[Jason]

Your opponent could have rocked your world with the DW7k

[bobofett]

Your opponent could have rocked your world with the DW7k

yea that is true but since he didn't have dw7k he couldn't blow him up.

[philowar]

Alastair...I can't be reading your post right...you would have Alastair sit in the starting zone damaging himself to pump up his buddies. This must be humor so I'll just laugh and ignore it as real strategy, you almost got me there. :lol:

Well, then obviously you've never tried it. I've used this -s t r a t e g y- to slaughter opponents on many occasions: pump up Alastair MacDirk in the backfield using over-extend until he's at 5 wounds whilst advancing the MacDirk warriors. Do you know the sheer mayhem that is two or three squads of MacDirk warriors with 7 attack smashing into Charos, heroes, or even tough common squads like Sentinels? Hell, I'd love to see you laughing then.

Of course, I don't like doing this anymore because there's nothing heroic about Alastair standing back and wounding himself while his warriors see all the action. Nothing heroic at all.

[TheRealQ]

Alastair...I can't be reading your post right...you would have Alastair sit in the starting zone damaging himself to pump up his buddies. This must be humor so I'll just laugh and ignore it as real strategy, you almost got me there. :lol:

Well, then obviously you've never tried it. I've used this -s t r a t e g y- to slaughter opponents on many occasions: pump up Alastair MacDirk in the backfield using over-extend until he's at 5 wounds whilst advancing the MacDirk warriors. Do you know the sheer mayhem that is two or three squads of MacDirk warriors with 7 attack smashing into Charos, heroes, or even tough common squads like Sentinels? Hell, I'd love to see you laughing then.

Of course, I don't like doing this anymore because there's nothing heroic about Alastair standing back and wounding himself while his warriors see all the action. Nothing heroic at all.

You are right, I have never tried it as it doesn't seem rational. I would like to see it done but I have no intention of trying it myself until I have seen someone successfully do this. It would seem to me that while you're pumping up your warriors you opponent would be sneaking a sniper into place to finish off Mac once he is weakened. At which point you would have your warriors back where they were and you would have wasted 5 turns and 110 points. You have to admit that it would be brutal irony.

[gibberish_47]

I like melee. I haven't had too much trouble getting them engaged with ranged units. I've used everything from viper swarms to orc hords to roman lines, with great sucess.

It is comical seeing your vipers frenzy into 2 squads of Minute Men bunched together in their starting zone, while you continually hit your frenzy role. :lol:

[TheRealQ]

Jason, I like to match Mimring with the Arrow Gruts. In such a case I often use Mimring to take out the opponents ranged units. I'm curious as to what your counter to this is.

[TheRealQ]

Back to the main topic. I almost never pick a strictly melee army. I have considered the following but have yet to try them out:

400 pt
Taelord
2 x Minions of Utgar

300 pt
Raelin
2 x Sentinels of Jandar

[gibberish_47]

TRQ, if you're playing a 500 point game, and need to have some anti-range range for the first army, the Onicron Snipers work wonders.

I played that army once, and wiped out my opponents armies. I bunkered up on a hill, so my snipers were rolling 3 dice. When my opponents got withing range of the Minions, it was a slaughter.

[philowar]

It would seem to me that while you're pumping up your warriors you opponent would be sneaking a sniper into place to finish off Mac once he is weakened.

That's what hiding behind trees and ruin walls near the starting zone is for. But again, it's a craven strategy so I don't like to do it anymore.

[CornPuff]

Recently, I've been playing with the Glyph of Jalgard (+2 to defense) with the special rule that it only works against ranged attacks. It does real well at discouraging range on maps without a lot of cover.

[TheRealQ]

TRQ, if you're playing a 500 point game, and need to have some anti-range range for the first army, the Onicron Snipers work wonders.

I played that army once, and wiped out my opponents armies. I bunkered up on a hill, so my snipers were rolling 3 dice. When my opponents got withing range of the Minions, it was a slaughter.

I was considering that, and perhaps some Krav and Microcorp for the second if I wanted to expand them. As I had said before, I always play with a mixed army. I was just wondering if there was a simple full melee army that works. You have to admit with a 6 dice Shields of Jandar defense the Sentinels are almost nigh-invulnerable. For just 300 points it is a pretty awesome combination.

[holycrusader7]

who here shares my opinion that,besides the tagawa samurai,minions and sentinels,melee squads are kind of useless?i mean,theyre good role players,but bad units to base your armies on.opinions would be nice, everyone

[netherspirit]

Melee is useless thread
http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=411

Will be merging this with that...

[RobWeaver]

Melee squads are fun, and can often stand more punishment than ranged squads. However, they need cover. I'm a fan of both the Vikings and the Knights of weston. Both have good defenses, decent attacks and are pretty effective at holding glyphs if you need to. They are both slow, however. You need a few units of ranged fire to keep an enemy pinned down, and to soften up your opponent. In an all ranged vs. all melee battle, I'm putting my money on the guy with range. Unless he rolls very unluckily, he'll move fast enough to get to key terrain and will lay down at least suppressive fire for your guys to walk into without any chance of reply. If you play people who like range, you have to take ranged units, even if you don't want to. In the last battle I fought with ranged vs. non-ranged, I played 2 squads of 4th Mass and Denrick. My opponent had Raelin, the Vikings and Krug. Raelin went under first as the 4th Mass got to high ground and fired by file on her. Krug charged in, and did kill off 3 of them then engaged Denrick. To his credit, he flattened Denrick in the shortest melee I've ever seen. Then the remaining 4th Mass simply shot him to pieces. Then they turned on the Vikings, who couldn't move fast enough to get either to cover or into engagement range. I'd say that's a pretty good illustration of the principles of ranged over melee combat.

[dragonfire]

sentinals are my favorite squad. Intill something else comes out.

[Jandars_Hope]

I voted samurai because i would use them more in a fight than the sentinels but the minions were close second! It really depends if the minions gain height advantage then i'd definitely put them top!

[Chimpy]

I think melle cab hold its own aginst range easily. Lat night for example, I took out Q9 with one set of venoc vipers. Granted they had an attck glyph, but my point still stands. In the same game I had a very succesful use of Jotun. He repelled all enemy ranged attacks and planted himself in the middle of a large company of Gnators and Microcorp. Needless to say, they were all destroyed before the round was over.

(we were having a large Vydar vs. Ullar match. I don't own DED or Aubriens so it was really a melee vs. range match.)

[Kenntak]

Map design is crucial in creating a fair match up between ranged and close combat units. Otherwise, the liberal line of sight rules, elevated terrain, and the fast movement of some ranged units can create problems.

[bunjee]

Anyone else have a problem with melee units lateley?

It just seems the AE, the Kravs, Microcorp, Deadeye,Marro Warriors, Q9 and Syv have been winning all the battles recently. Poor Krug doesn't stand a chance.

I feel the only melee unit that's any good is Drake. I wish I had a set of EOVs, because I could probably stand to play with them too.

Oh, so sad. The death of melee. :cry:Hey, Cornpuff, how you feeling about Krug now? :lol:

[CornPuff]

I think I forgot a key part of killing Krug....

Attacking him! :)
--------------------
concerning this thread, I think the roborats have gone a along way toward discouraging ranged units. Some scenario maps (such as the 3-4 player castle map) put the starting zones right on top of each other, making melee forces a must.

[Thor]

I would hardly call melee units "worthless". In nearly all cases you can get a squad of melee units that have better atk and def then a similarly costed range unit. Look at the Roman Legionnaires compared to the Roman Archers. The Legionnaires have 1 more figure, 1 more attack, and 1 more defense yet cost 5 points less! The same goes for the Grut Warriors compared to the Grut Archers. 1 more figure/atk/def on the melee there as well.

Not only that, a lot of melee units get bonding where as very few range figures do. The only problem melee figures have against range is getting into combat before dying. Range figs can get a few shots in usually before they ever recieve a single attack. Once they are engaged though, the range figures go down pretty quick.

With each new expansion it is becoming much easier to get engaged with range units using melee ones. We have trees, roads, and now Deathreavers which are PERFECT for tying down range figures.

[dra(gon)]

it is like war first range units the kill meele force quick but is the meele force(mass effeckt) in front they hurt like hell.

on hs the problem is that range units have same pwer if the arget is 5 or one field away. extrem they could use their ramge power in fornt of the enemy. . the only winnig option for meele units is that status (range units have low defense).

that problem is im video games often like the granade laucher, or rocket(ok deadly) they are range weapons but they have in front the same power as far like granade laucher, but if the meele enemy use a swort it is more deadly.

[kenjib]

I think the Izumi Samurai are pretty good. They can use their 5 defense to close with ranged units. Once there, the ranged units can no longer use range and have to either risk dying from counterstrike (good chance with low attack range units) or move away and risk a passing swipe. Move the Izumi up to your enemy's ranged units then leave them there while you either start attacking with range or follow up with some stronger attacking melee units who are now free to close in. Deathreavers can serve a similar function.

[SouthPawScrapper]

I like the samurai the most.

[theats]

ranged over melee.
for 50 pts(Marro) you get virtualy unlimited soldiers, if you are lucky

[bunjee]

ranged over melee.
for 50 pts(Marro) you get virtualy unlimited soldiers, if you are luckyfor 40 pts (Deathreavers) you get virtually unlimited movement, can climb higher, drop further, and they're common. Sure, they only have an attack of 1, but Marro are an attack of 2, both low.

It always depends on your scenario and opponent.

[B:T:L Matt]

Einar is by far my favorite general so this is easy... But aside from that, Tagawa are pretty deadly. I had them in my army last night and they alone managed to kill 7 figures of my opponent, two of which were heroes. Ranged isn't everything. I actually draft more melee than ranged and still often come out winning... Not always a winner, but enough to not give up on them.

[theats]

ranged over melee.
for 50 pts(Marro) you get virtualy unlimited soldiers, if you are luckyfor 40 pts (Deathreavers) you get virtually unlimited movement, can climb higher, drop further, and they're common. Sure, they only have an attack of 1, but Marro are an attack of 2, both low.

It always depends on your scenario and opponent.
ok, but, if a reaver dies, there is NO way to bring it back.

[toddrew]

ok, but, if a reaver dies, there is NO way to bring it back.

Revive glyph ;) :lol:

[bunjee]

ranged over melee.
for 50 pts(Marro) you get virtualy unlimited soldiers, if you are luckyfor 40 pts (Deathreavers) you get virtually unlimited movement, can climb higher, drop further, and they're common. Sure, they only have an attack of 1, but Marro are an attack of 2, both low.

It always depends on your scenario and opponent.
ok, but, if a reaver dies, there is NO way to bring it back.True, but I can buy 3 sets of them :D

Funny thing is, I used to have the best luck reviving Marro Warriors, but lately, they just can't clone. Even in water.

[theats]

i guess im lucky. NO MY DICE AREN"T RIGGED!!!

um, i mean, yeah im just lucky like thhat.

[Hero Scrapper]

Well with my younger nephew always picking ahead of time almost all the ranged units in our games I always found it best to just to steam head on into him and slowly work units oup on the side. He can shoot but he can't shoot them all before they get ahold of him.

[InfinityMax]

I've had reasonable success with TorKulNa and some grubs. Keep the grubs next to Sir Stompsalot, and even if he does take a couple dings, he can eat the grubs, and he should still be able to get in with the enemy shooters and trample them. Add SuBakNa to give yourself that extra 5% chance of stomping, and you've got a solid melee team.

Plus it's fun to trample.

[SuperflyTNT]

Well, to quote my Marine friend who is a bodybuilder (image him flexing): "Missiles out of range, switching to guns".

Although the merits of ranged fighters is clear, the melee warriors definately have a place in the game. It all comes down to strategy.

I recently took part in a tournament where I played all melee fighters (plus the Krav)and I placed 5th. The people who won all had mostly melee fighters with the exception of the 'Soulborg Menace' who came in second.

Personally, I wish that ranged units would have a disadvantage like a -1 attack or -2 defense when fighting against adjacent targets, but the rules don't allow for that so it is what it is.

[LongHeroscaper]

I recently took part in a tournament where I played all melee fighters (plus the Krav)and I placed 5th. The people who won all had mostly melee fighters with the exception of the 'Soulborg Menace' who came in second.


Well, that part is quite important. The following army: Knights x3, Finn, Thorgrim, Elgrim, KMA can do pretty well thank to the shields of the Knights and the range of KMA.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

You guys all know what I think about this. Here's the best way for me to sum it up. Range is for little girls!! :)

KNIGHTS > Range 8)

[LongHeroscaper]

You guys all know what I think about this. Here's the best way for me to sum it up. Range is for little girls!! :)

KNIGHTS > Range 8)

I know, I know :roll:! I won the bet that you will show up here within 2 hours. :)
I think you are the only person I've seen who did wonderful with only melee units. Conclusion: You are not a person :twisted:.

[Ugly-Caco]

Melees...pshhh! They're useless. That's why I draft 75-85% of them most of the time. :)

[rym]

Conclusion: You are not a person :twisted:.

That's funny, Long! But I think I'm on the way to becoming "less" of a person for NHSD myself. Matthias knows what he's talking about, and let's just say, "I like the knight life," too!

[Matthias Maccabeus]

You guys all know what I think about this. Here's the best way for me to sum it up. Range is for little girls!! :)

KNIGHTS > Range 8)

I know, I know :roll:! I won the bet that you will show up here within 2 hours. :)
I think you are the only person I've seen who did wonderful with only melee units. Conclusion: You are not a person :twisted:.

It would have been faster but I was in a staff meeting learning about the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. :)

rym,
The knights will stand victorious on NHSD in Iowa and Texas both. ;)

[Junge Roman]

Last I checked, Deathreavers are melee. Range would be much less powerful without these melee enablers running around.

[Jexik]

Raelin is melee too. ;)

[Snotwalker 8000]

Melee units are only useless if they're never used. [deep thought of the day]

Cyprien, Isamu, Krug, Charos, Gilbert, Alastair, KoW, Drake, Romans, Heavy Gruts & Orc Champs, Tagawa & Kozuke Samurai, etc. etc. etc... yep, all useless.... :confused: uh...... ;)

I've seen way too many Knight, Orc, Vampire, Zombie, Roman, Viper, Wolf, and other melee armies utterly destroy opposing ranged armies to put "Ranged" on any sort of pedestal. Melee armies require more tactics and strategy to most effectively close with the enemy, but this doesn't make ranged units superior... easier to use, perhaps... but certainly not superior.

SW8K

[Lord Pyre]

Talk about thread necromancy, eh? ;)



I'm pretty sure the jungle has made melee units less "useless."

[Jexik]

I'm pretty sure the jungle has made melee units less "useless."

To some extent. Tactical flexibility (i.e. being ranged) is still pretty huge, and the jungle also makes some units that people don't normally think of as 'melee' even better, such as the Gladiatrons, Deathreavers, and Raelin. Knights benefit, but the EI aren't suddenly unstoppable.

[Snotwalker 8000]

I'm pretty sure the jungle has made melee units less "useless."

Best example: Zombies... "can't see my head? Ahhhh, too bad!" ;)

[Richard]

I like using melee fighters, like the Shaolin Monks, but the problem is using them on an unbalanced level against a Q9. *shudders*

[KaBoomboomBoom]

LF Weston Representation.

[Gabbi]

one small house rule I like to use is give to the target of ranged attack one more defense die if it's covered by about 50% or more.
this bonus doesn't stack with elevation bonus. so if te target of a ranged attack is elevated and in cover it still adds one die only.
we use this rule because we like the idea that being in covers grants protection, but also could slightly balance the game in case of players that field ranged-only troops.

P.S. I voted Minions, they can be really deadly.
plus, their leader doesn't cost too much ^^

[peeps]

:D Firstly,hello everybody! I've been away far too long. Personal reasons and work has kept me busy, but im still a "plast-addict" so here I am joining this great topic.

I noticed a few things in response to the topic and I want to say,"melee is not useless" or dead. Valid points from all sides on both stratagies, ranged and melee here. I can agree with everyone that you do have to think out the lay of the land and your opponents army.That's just what a good general does. That being said, I offer my two cents on the matter.

#1. In some of my past battles I have used large or huge figs. as my lead chargers with archers or melee units in a tight formation behind them. Large/Huge characters with archers/melee trailing use them as a LOS blocker to enemy archers. Allowing to get in closer to enemy archery units.

#2.Trees and jungle terrain pieces don't exactly mean more trouble in the sense of LOS blockers for archery units. I'll use them still,in smaller numbers,hidden behind trees or brush.I often pick a straight line view with an archer and try to funnel enemies into those paths with melee units.
All the while using it for cover from enemy fire.

I think when I read the topics here and all your great responses,I do take something from it in the form of stratagy.

[stubobj]

I just recently got Waves 1-4 in a trade. I got a chance to test out some of those melee squads. I haven't tried them all yet but after using Knights and Sentinels I'm liking melee a lot more than I used to. My only problem is they aren't as useful as singles. I can't wait till I can get more knights. Bonding with both Finn and Gilbert was just awesome. I'll get to use Minions tonight and I'm really looking forward to that. Melee definitely has its uses. Especially if you have multiples then an entire army of melee is very viable IMHO.

[DeadEye]

melee units are awesome.
The Nebraska Skirmish is geared towrds melee units......ehich is a tourney that goes on in the mkidwest (in Nebraska for the geographically challenged ;))

but melee is awesome, it is alot harder sometimes to play than range but can be much more rewarding,
I mean its one thing to shoot your enemy but beating them hand to hand is even better :D

DeadEye

[MI_Tiger]

One of the biggest advantages of ranged units is that it is much easier for them to take advantage of "Aura" powers. Melee units generally have to keep on the move, pressing the attack toward the enemy. That means that either you quickly move out of any support units auras (Raelin, Thorgrim, Taelord, ...), or you have to use order markers to move up the support units. "Wasting" OMs on support units means that your advance will be slower and your units will be exposed to ranged counterattacks longer. Note that melee units that bond with support units can somewhat offset this (but no one bonds with Raelin).

Ranged units, on the other hand, can usually stay inside auras fairly easily, especially if you outrange the enemy and force them to come to you. You use a few OMs early to set up the aura units, then use the bulk of your OMs on the ranged attackers.