MAJOR Q9 : Analysis

[Faartknocker]

Greetings, everyone.

Yesterday, I took part in the first Canadian Heroscape Tournament in Bramalea which was hosted by Mr. and Mrs. Atmospro. Suffice it to say it could not have been better prepared/organized in my opinion. A big thanks to both of you. I dedicate this post to Mr. and Mrs. Atmospro.

During the tournament, one unit seemed to be universally dreaded, namely Major Q9. Those who had this unit in their armies (I believe three or four of us did) found that it often netted wins for us. It may currently be simply the best unit in the game for its price. What makes it so good (at this time)? Well, let's examine it carefully.


It's a Soulborg

As such, it cannot be plagued by the Marrden Hounds.


It's a Unique Hero

As such, it cannot be targeted by attacks/ablilities that can only affect COMMON heroes/squads. Even those attacks that DO affect it are greatly reduced (Sudema's "Stare of Stone", etc.). It DOES benefit from BONUSES given to unique heroes/squads (Finn's Warrior Spirit, etc.).


It's a Large (7) Unit

As such, it cannot be targeted by attacks/abilities that affect only medium or small figures (Grimnak's Chomp, Me-Burq-Sa's Paralyzing Stare, etc.). I think it is important to add here that it has a large BASE as well. Unlike other soulborgs, it can cross narrow and shallow rivers without stopping. This can greatly increase its effectiveness as it can allow Major Q9 to close range to target enemies, or ford rivers to escape them.


It's Got 4 Life Points

Unlike other Soulborgs that have only one life point, Major Q9 cannot be easily eliminated by one wiffed (0 shields) defensive roll. It also has the luxury of being able to take some disengagement hits, lava field damage, etc..


It Has a Normal Attack of 4 and a Range of 8

This good attack allows Major Q9 to hit (pretty hard) important targets from a relatively safe distance (few melee units can close on it in one turn). If coupled with the attack glyph and a height advantage, the attack becomes almost unstoppable and, because of the range, unavoidable for most units.


It Has a Defense of 7

A great defense to be sure. However, if coupled with Raelin and (as is often the case) a height advantage, and (with some luck) a defense +2 glyph...yeah, you get the picture.


Queglix Gun SPECIAL Attack

This special attack, because it so neatly complements it's normal attack, makes Q9 the outstanding unit that many consider it to be. Since it is a special attack, it punches through the defenses of many units which are usually protected from normal attacks, whether adjacent or not. Here's a (short) list:

Charros......................can't counterstrike, ditto Samurai.
Nikita Agents...............can't use "Smoke Powder 13".
Sgt. Drake Alexander...his "Thorian Speed" just ain't speedy enough.
Death Reavers.............can't scatter.
Ninjas of the N. Wind....can't disappear.
Gladiatrons/Major X17..get no melee defense +1/+4.

Get the picture? Even the castle door loses it's "Reinforced Defense"! It's not that the attack itself is great, but rather that so many units' special defenses are bypassed by it. Let's now look at the optimal use of the Queglix Gun.

In general, if an opponent's unit has a defense of only 0, 1 or 2, it is best to roll a single die at a time. That way, you don't "waste" hits and have more left over for other targets (assuming there are other targets). If the targeted unit has a defense of 3 or more, it is best to use three attack dice at a time. If possible, ALWAYS AVOID USING TWO ATTACK DICE. I won't do the math here, but, if you do/can, you'll see that it's a bad idea.

Exceptions: Units such as the Krav Maga and Sentinels, even though they have a defense of more than two, should be attacked with only one die at a time. It's because one hit will do, and because more would be a waste.


Drawbacks

Although it costs 180 points, you really get (more than?)what you pay for: I would hardly call such a good/reasonable price a drawback. Being a large-based figure with obstructive shoulder pannels does sometimes make Major Q9 difficult to move/position in order to be able to target units, especially from bridges. This is sometimes made worse by Major Q9's slow movement (5). That said, however, in my opinion, the advantages FAR outweigh the drawbacks.

I hope this Analysis has helped you to better understand Major Q9. If you think I've overlooked something, please post it on the thread. Constructive point-outs make us better players. Cheers!

[moorific]

This is a very good analysis and I will say he is sometimes overpowered. I once had a great game with him, but just recently I whiffed when Sgt. Drake rolled a mere 4 skulls.

[Aldin]

One important new thing to note about Q9 is that, because he follows Vydar, with Laglor his range can be 10 - on par with Deadeye Dan, the longest range unit in the game. With height and as a large figure this has serious (though as yet untested by me) potential as a castle door busting combo.

~Aldin

[massivenewbage]

I liked you evaluation of Q9, you nailed his good and bad points pretty well.

A few games ago I was playing with my wife on my team. Against us were two of my friends who were both good players. They pick Nakita and Krav, me-burq-sa and Theracus. We picked Q-9, AE, MW, and Kelda. There may be some units I'm missing but those are the rememberable ones.

The map was virtually divided by two walls 6 spaces tall. With only a 3 hex opening. When the wife saw their draft she almost quit. I told her to trust me though, I already had a plan to beat them.

1st I dropped the AE on the left wall. This instantly created an 8 space area they wouldn't enter. I even left a couple order markers on their just to keep them honest. After that they played into my hands perfectly. They tried to use Theracus to place their units on the wall. I just used Q-9 to decimate the Krave and Nakita. When they changed thier mind on that plan I had the wife bum rush around the corner with MW's. After that it was all clean up.

In short, yes Q-9 rocks but mostly against squad heavy teams.

[Grungebob]

Q9 is a beast. I strongly suggest everyone play with the LOS shoulderpad restriction.

[Tiberius]

GB, was that ever an official thing? If Q9 is used in tournaments, is that shoulder pad thing to be enforced? I agree he is a beast but I have seen him taken down just as easily as anything else, get agent carr beside him or let the air born elite have him from height. He doesnt last long.

[Grungebob]

GB, was that ever an official thing? If Q9 is used in tournaments, is that shoulder pad thing to be enforced? I agree he is a beast but I have seen him taken down just as easily as anything else, get agent carr beside him or let the air born elite have him from height. He doesnt last long.It is official and is also controversial. It is funny you bring up the AE. Four shots from height at 4 dice apiece should really whittle him down. But there is no denying that he is one of the most powerful and versatile heroes available.

[neon]

doesnt do too well against high def figures, but a hero with 3 attacks of 3 or 9 attacks of 1 is great and worth his 180 points, although I think I'll be better off picking 2 MMs and have 40 pts left.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Q9 is a beast. I strongly suggest everyone play with the LOS shoulderpad restriction.

Amen!

THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT SHOULDER PADS BLOCKING LINE OF SIGHT!!!!

[geddy lifeson]

In the past five games I have played, he has popped up in four of them. Almost every time he has managed to put fear into opponents. You got it right in your list of why he is so great. The only time I didn't fear him much was in taking Ne-Gok-Sa against him. The game was basically over at the point but I called a Mindshackle at the beginning of the game and through determination, NGS came through finally at the end...game over. Every other time, MQ9 has mowed down my figs.

[Aldin]

In the past five games I have played, he has popped up in four of them. Almost every time he has managed to put fear into opponents. You got it right in your list of why he is so great. The only time I didn't fear him much was in taking Ne-Gok-Sa against him. The game was basically over at the point but I called a Mindshackle at the beginning of the game and through determination, NGS came through finally at the end...game over. Every other time, MQ9 has mowed down my figs.

And watching NGS shackle Q9 was just plain cool!

~Aldin

[Hendal]

I agree, I have used him in the last 2 tourney's I was in , and was the army everyone feared. To me he is the krav killer.

We play a lot of games now not using him, he is that game changing.

My group has talked a lot about tourney strategy and you almost have to pick Q-9, the Krav, and Raelin. Q-9 with Raelin backing him up is a tough one to beat. IN a 400 pt. game you only have 40 pts. left so I go with the roborats if therer are glyphs. In a bigger point game you can pick some ground units that really round out your team.

I have played against endpawn who is one of the luckiest rollers I know, and he we went head to head Q-9 verses his DW9000 and it was a really long battle but he won in the end with the DW

[spider_poison]

Krug's a pretty good counter to Q9. Even though Krug only has a movement of five, he should be able to hunt down the major before too long. If you try an Arrow Grut beast bonding army, Q9 won't be a problem at all.

[Jormi_Boced]

The last tourney I played in, I ran up againsy Q9 several times. My romans were always able to come up on top every time. I usually shot him down with Krav and Me Burq Sa while engaging with Romans.

[jcb231]

I like using him as a door buster. He's the best in the game at a castle siege I think. Add Laglor and it gets even better.

[Pilgrim]

GB, was that ever an official thing? If Q9 is used in tournaments, is that shoulder pad thing to be enforced? I agree he is a beast but I have seen him taken down just as easily as anything else, get agent carr beside him or let the air born elite have him from height. He doesnt last long.

And remember, not only do his shoulder pads block, officially, but he also can only "see" forward. If you're standing behind him he can't shoot at you. He's the only character with an official "facing" rule.

Yes, Q9 can whiff and go down big, esp. if you play him poorely and don't take advantage of his range.

But assuming good game play, if there is any power creep in HS, I believe Q9 would be the most likely suspect.

[Aldin]

And remember, not only do his shoulder pads block, officially, but he also can only "see" forward. If you're standing behind him he can't shoot at you. He's the only character with an official "facing" rule.

Can you link this? I hadn't heard facing EVER applied.

~Aldin

[Pilgrim]

It's not officially called "facing" but that's in effect what it is. If Q9 can only see forward then his facing matters. I suppose technically what's happening is that his chassy is blocking his LOS, which sticks out the front of his chest . . . .

[Aldin]

Still... do you have a link?

~Aldin

[Pilgrim]

Don't have a link. Anyone? Anyone? Bueler? GB? Nether?

But I know it's an official ruling from Hasboro and for some reason I believe it was posted here before. And caused the flap that GB said.

[Fourshadow]

I've seen the figure but still think it rediculous to rule he blocks his own LOS. That is absurd to me. Even if I saw it in writing. That would mean you would/should rule same for many of the dragons! Their wings block LOS. :shock:

[Eclipse]

I've seen the figure but still think it rediculous to rule he blocks his own LOS. That is absurd to me. Even if I saw it in writing. That would mean you would/should rule same for many of the dragons! Their wings block LOS. :shock:

It is true of the dragons actually. Their own body can block their LOS. The dragons are (for some odd reason) able to use their horns as LOS points. It's another odd ruling, but I wager it's merely supposed to simulate their ability to move those incredibly long necks. The real difference between Q9 and nearly every other figure is that his LOS point is in the center of his chest instead of on top of his body.

Pulled from the FAQ here on Heroscapers:


Can Mimring block his own LOS? If he can't, then how can you determine LOS if he is blocking it. BTW: This is possible.
Official Ruling: When determining LOS for Mimring's FIRE LINE SPECIAL ATTACK and firing to the direct rear, you may use the tip of either long horn on his head as a targeting point. I know this is not in the rules. It will be eventually fixed, and in the rules. All parts of his body block LOS.

[Oprime]

I've seen the figure but still think it rediculous to rule he blocks his own LOS. That is absurd to me.

It IS what balances him..... that and the 1 movement point to turn around a large based figure.

If you follow these two official rules Q9 is relativly easy to take down.

Pilgrim is correct on the "facing" ruling too. It was ruled as such by the "judge" at the RI tourny......

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

The last tourney I played in, I ran up againsy Q9 several times. My romans were always able to come up on top every time.
I recall my Legos doing pretty good against Q9 on the Meat Grinder scenario. I tried sending Wulsinu into the pit to mine for crystals and sent some Legos around the rim to engage Q9. They held their own, but luckily they didn't have to travel too far to engage him.

[Grungebob]

From the FAQ current as of Oct 21st:

Can Major Q9’s shoulder pads block his own line of sight?
Yes. When checking to see if you have a clear line of sight with Q9, you may want to look behind the targeted figure’s Hit Zone to see if you can see Q9’s head, or the side of his face. He cannot fire directly behind himself.

[Cavalier]

Am I the only one that thinks this same thing should apply to the Zettians (I know it doesn't, but if they went that way with the major...)?

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10007/zettian.jpg

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10009/MajorQ9.jpg

[netherspirit]

It would likely affect the Zettians, but since they are single based figures they can be rotated before attacking.

[Cavalier]

It would likely affect the Zettians, but since they are single based figures they can be rotated before attacking.
As always, you appear to have the answer :P

[Pilgrim]

From the FAQ current as of Oct 21st:

Can Major Q9’s shoulder pads block his own line of sight?
Yes. When checking to see if you have a clear line of sight with Q9, you may want to look behind the targeted figure’s Hit Zone to see if you can see Q9’s head, or the side of his face. He cannot fire directly behind himself.

Thanks GB

[Phasma Felis]

From the FAQ current as of Oct 21st:

Can Major Q9’s shoulder pads block his own line of sight?
Yes. When checking to see if you have a clear line of sight with Q9, you may want to look behind the targeted figure’s Hit Zone to see if you can see Q9’s head, or the side of his face. He cannot fire directly behind himself.
That's kinda weird, since it explicitly contradicts the FAQ on the Heroscape website: (http://www.hasbro.com/heroscape/default.cfm?page=faq#rules)
If a figure is not facing another figure that he is attacking, does he have line of sight?
Facing does not matter when determining Line of Sight. The best way to tell if your Attacker has a clear Line of Sight is to get behind its head and look at the targeted figure. If you can see any part of it from its head, you have a clear Line of Sight. The facing of the attacker's head does not matter.
By that ruling, he should at least be able to fire directly backwards, sighting "between" his shoulder pads.

Honestly, the limited fire arc for Major Q9 seems like a reasonable limit on a very powerful character, especially a huge, lumbering robot. He simply can't turn around as fast as others can. I just wish Hasbro would get their story straight. :(

[Aldin]

So, presumably, the little "face" part of Q9 sticking forward from the "neck" is the part LoS is determined from and the "neck" (in addition to the shoulder pads) blocks LoS?

~Aldin

[Phasma Felis]

A related question: for those that have played with it, how much does the "Shoulder Pads" rule really limit Major Q9? It essentially means that he has to pick an arc each turn before firing, which prevents him from Queglixing targets not within 180 degrees of eachother. That could be problematic if he was surrounded by dinky units, but it doesn't seem like it'd come up that often.

Also, I believe it wouldn't apply to melee combat--the FAQ at Heroscape.com says line of sight is not needed once you're engaged.

One more question: where does it say that single-space figures can be rotated and adjusted before firing, while doulbe-space figures have to spend a movement point? It seems like a reasonable assumption, but I checked my rulebook, and it doesn't seem to say either way.

[Aldin]

A related question: for those that have played with it, how much does the "Shoulder Pads" rule really limit Major Q9? It essentially means that he has to pick an arc each turn before firing, which prevents him from Queglixing targets not within 180 degrees of eachother. That could be problematic if he was surrounded by dinky units, but it doesn't seem like it'd come up that often.

Also, I believe it wouldn't apply to melee combat--the FAQ at Heroscape.com says line of sight is not needed once you're engaged.

It's pretty limiting, actually. A lot of terrain is inconvenient for facing Q9 the way you want him to face. Losing the rear arc really wouldn't matter much as you tend not to have ranged units behind you, but stuff on the flanks can be annoying.

And yes, once engaged LoS is no longer needed.

~Aldin

[netherspirit]

From the FAQ current as of Oct 21st:

Can Major Q9’s shoulder pads block his own line of sight?
Yes. When checking to see if you have a clear line of sight with Q9, you may want to look behind the targeted figure’s Hit Zone to see if you can see Q9’s head, or the side of his face. He cannot fire directly behind himself.
That's kinda weird, since it explicitly contradicts the FAQ on the Heroscape website: (http://www.hasbro.com/heroscape/default.cfm?page=faq#rules)
If a figure is not facing another figure that he is attacking, does he have line of sight?
Facing does not matter when determining Line of Sight. The best way to tell if your Attacker has a clear Line of Sight is to get behind its head and look at the targeted figure. If you can see any part of it from its head, you have a clear Line of Sight. The facing of the attacker's head does not matter.
By that ruling, he should at least be able to fire directly backwards, sighting "between" his shoulder pads.

Honestly, the limited fire arc for Major Q9 seems like a reasonable limit on a very powerful character, especially a huge, lumbering robot. He simply can't turn around as fast as others can. I just wish Hasbro would get their story straight. :(

I bolded the part of the second of the second question that applies. Q9's head sticks out from his body and you can not draw line of sight from his head to anything behind him.

[robaula]

Q9 comes out tops for me 9/10. Great firing ability, combined with good life and defence. Nice sum up, Faartknocker!

[nickmodaily]

One more question: where does it say that single-space figures can be rotated and adjusted before firing, while doulbe-space figures have to spend a movement point? It seems like a reasonable assumption, but I checked my rulebook, and it doesn't seem to say either way.

Well, since you move your figure first, and then attack, you can face them any way you want to. There's no real need for a rule.

Major Q-9's problem is that he can attack up to 9 times. But once he's done moving, he needs to be able to "see" every one of the targets he'll be firing at.

[robaula]

Major Q-9's problem is that he can attack up to 9 times.

Thats something I've never really thought of, myself, as we have never had it happen in any of our games. Most of the time, Q9 attacks three times, with three die a shot. My mind is opened up to a whole new world of tactical possibilities... ;-)

[DoesntCompute]

Nine attacks of 1 die each destroys the Krav Maga.

[Chimpy]

Here is something that should be added to the analysis: Q9's face fits perfectly into Jotun's hand. I am serious. It is like his face was made out of the Jotun's hand mold.

[kenjib]

I bolded the part of the second of the second question that applies. Q9's head sticks out from his body and you can not draw line of sight from his head to anything behind him.

The other two hex units that have the same issue with their head jutting out from their shoulders are Jotun, Dumutef and Krug. Incidentally they are all melee units so this same issue does not apply. What this whole thing seems to mean, along with the rule where it takes one move to turn 180 degrees for a 2 hex unit, is that 2 hex units have facing and 1 hex units do not. Kind of strange and I don't think I like it very much. It's a very clumsy and inconsistent way of handling facing. If another 2 hex ranged unit comes out with the head jutting from the shoulders again I wonder if the same facing rule will apply or if Q9 will just have an oddball rules exception in place that no other character has.

[Grungebob]

I also wonder if it costs 2 move to turn around when you are on heavy snow etc..

[Chimpy]

I also wonder if it costs 2 move to turn around when you are on heavy snow etc..

That would suck.

[Faartknocker]

Greetings again, everyone.

The issue of "turning around" is interesting. On heavy snow, one could argue that turning around is not the same as moving (you don't have to plow through more snow). However, on a narrow bridge that is only one hexagonal space wide, how would Major Q9 manage to turn around? I did this in the tournament and, even though it favoured me, it seemed a bit odd.

As for line of sight, I think it is a fair/reasonable "handicap" that Major Q9 cannot fire directly behind itself. It also, as others have already said, matches the sculpt (its head/line of sight juts out from his chest).

Having said all that, though, it still seems to me to be currently the best well-rounded unit for most scenarios. The only loss I suffered in the tournament (to Jazz, who played very well) was due, I believe, to the fact that Jazz also had an army which featured the Major Q9 - Raelin combo.

As for Spider Poison's assertion that the Krug - Arrow Gruts combo can defeat the Major Q9 - Raelin combo easily, I respectfully partially disagree. There's no doubt that once Krug gets adjacent to Major Q9, the latter's end is near, but that's the point: Krug will often not have a chance to close with Major Q9. Consider Major Q9's normal attack (4 and possible height/glyph bonuses) of range 8 and then its Queglix Gun's 3 attacks of 3 with a range of 6. Add to this some small units to block Krug's path (I use Deathreavers) or consider obstacles or that Major Q9 may be on an elevation.

Of course, the Major Q9 - Raelin combo can be defeated, but only with great difficulty and/or luck. Perhaps the best way to defeat a Major Q9 - Raelin combo is to attack it with another Major Q9 - Raelin combo (lol). Cheers!

[Pilgrim]

I know Q9 cannot fire at targets behind him, or targets blocked from view by his 80's-sized shoulder pads.

Can Q9 fire at targets behind him that are adjacent?

[Pattar007]

Yes as long as you are adjacent you do not need kube if sight. (This was brought up in a earlier thread)

[Eclipse]

The turning around concept is this:

Double Space figures have a leading base and a tailing base. The leading base is treated just like a single base figure, moving and counting the same. The tailing base occupies the space previously occupied by the leading base. When you flip a double base figure, what you are actually doing is moving the leading base to the hex occupied by the tailing base, the tailing base then moves to the space the leading base occupied. It IS movement, which is why it costs a movement point.

One alternative rule you can try is to simply treat the leading base as the only base and move like a single base figure. When you end your turn, ignore facing and simply set the tailing base in whatever hex you wish. This can really ease the movement problems of double space figures and simplify things. The only problem with this rule is that it allows "tail whipping". Essentially, someone can attack a unit 6 spaces ahead of Krug by moving him 5 spaces forward then swinging him around so that the tailing base engages the enemy unit. I've considered trying to rule that only the leading base can attack or be attacked, but this just leads to more confusion and complications.

Well anyway, this has been Double Base Figure Movement 204. I hope you enjoyed the lecture. Please insert disk 2 to continue this course.

[EDIT: Ignore the backing up thing... it was never there, I swear :oops: ]

[Junge Roman]

Eclipse, my understanding is that "leading" and "tailing" refer to which end you start moving with first or which follows. If a figure "backs up," it just means that the leading base was just the part that visually looks like the back of the character. With this interpretation, there is no complication to the rule.

[ASmiles]

The problem you seem to have is that the "leading" base doesn't have to be the one where the figure is facing forward. For the double space figures, you simply pick one base and start moving with it. The other base automatically becomes the "tailing" base. Mimring flies just as well if he's going forwards or backwards.

Your "problematic" backing up of double-space figures, isn't really a problem. The "tailing" base (which might hold Mimring's head or his tail) simply follows the "leading" base.

[Eclipse]

Ah, that makes sense. Nevermind then, I'll take that part out of my post. It is too bad that Q9 and Dumutef can't walk forward. I hate that they have to do that silly crab walk.

[kenjib]

Eclipse, my understanding is that "leading" and "tailing" refer to which end you start moving with first or which follows. If a figure "backs up," it just means that the leading base was just the part that visually looks like the back of the character. With this interpretation, there is no complication to the rule.

Though if they aren't really walking backward, since it's only visually the back square, why does it cost a movement point to rotate them 180 degrees? I still think that the facing rules for 2 hex units are inelegant.

[TheMightyAargh]

Awesome post Faart!!

I can't deny that it's a great unit, and judging by the amount of people using it, I wasn't the only thinking that.

I've never played with Q9 yet, but I think I will have to give him a try!

[Faartknocker]

Thanks, Mighty Aargh and Robula.

Yes, Major Q9 is great. In the recent 400-point army tournament my army was as follows:

Major Q9...................180 pts
Krav Maga Agents......100 pts
Raelin.......................80 pts
Deathreavers.............40 pts

TOTAL.......................400 pts


I chose this army because of its versatility. If the opponent advances with a unit such as Krug, I can first move my Deathreavers forward to block the passage and then put my remaining markers on the Krav Maga Agents. I would focus their fire (usually with a +1 height advantage) on Krug (for example) while allowing the Deathreavers to keep the passage blocked with their good defense and "scatter" ability.

If, on the other hand, my opponent advances with numerous (relatively) weak squad units, or units that have a defense against NORMAL ranged attacks, I can send Major Q9 in first to mow them down with his SPECIAL Queglix Gun attack and later bring the other squads up behind it.

This is one of the most well-rounded armies currently available. It seems to have few - if any - weaknesses and many, many strengths. At this time, I don't think I could devise another army to defeat it in MOST scenarios.

As I've already stated, the only army that defeated mine at the tournament INCLUDED the Major Q9 - Raelin combo. However, there may be a unit coming down the pipes that will be a CONSISTENTLY effective counter to Major Q9. We'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps this will come to be known as "Faartknocker's Army", since, after all, I, like Major Q9, shoot from the hip! (lol) Cheers!

[kenjib]

Mine was very similar. KMA, Q9, and 3 deathreavers.

[TheMightyAargh]

I chose this army because of its versatility. If the opponent advances with a unit such as Krug, I can first move my Deathreavers forward to block the passage and then put my remaining markers on the Krav Maga Agents. I would focus their fire (usually with a +1 height advantage) on Krug (for example) while allowing the Deathreavers to keep the passage blocked with their good defense and "scatter" ability.


Okay, I'm going right off topic here, but I'd like to know more about this strategy...and I suppose the rats in general. First off, not disagreeing at all, but would just like to learn I guess the "why" or "how" of this working.

Say I put my Krug out, and the opponent blocks with the rats. Now I would do one of two things here. 1) ignore the rats and disengage, welcoming their attacks that would only make me stronger or 2) attack, making them scatter and thus opening the passage. I know #1 wouldn't work for most units, but #2 shouldn't be a problem.

Am I right in thinking this would work? See I haven't played as or against the rats so this is new to me, and I've never seen them as a real valuable unit. I'm thinking that I should rethink my thinking though ;)

[Grungebob]

I chose this army because of its versatility. If the opponent advances with a unit such as Krug, I can first move my Deathreavers forward to block the passage and then put my remaining markers on the Krav Maga Agents. I would focus their fire (usually with a +1 height advantage) on Krug (for example) while allowing the Deathreavers to keep the passage blocked with their good defense and "scatter" ability.


Okay, I'm going right off topic here, but I'd like to know more about this strategy...and I suppose the rats in general. First off, not disagreeing at all, but would just like to learn I guess the "why" or "how" of this working.

Say I put my Krug out, and the opponent blocks with the rats. Now I would do one of two things here. 1) ignore the rats and disengage, welcoming their attacks that would only make me stronger or 2) attack, making them scatter and thus opening the passage. I know #1 wouldn't work for most units, but #2 shouldn't be a problem.

Am I right in thinking this would work? See I haven't played as or against the rats so this is new to me, and I've never seen them as a real valuable unit. I'm thinking that I should rethink my thinking though ;)The rats engage Krug and prevent his forward movement. They can do this easily especially since he is a two hex creature. If krug hits a rat you simply move two more in to tie him up. If Krug attacks twice you will get to move four rats. If you have enough rats around him he may not even get to disengage even if he wants to.

[kenjib]

1) ignore the rats and disengage, welcoming their attacks that would only make me stronger

Grungebob addressed this one well.

or 2) attack, making them scatter and thus opening the passage. I know #1 wouldn't work for most units, but #2 shouldn't be a problem.

The owner of the rats gets to choose if and how they scatter. If you are playing with the rats you wouldn't scatter them away from Krug. You would scatter them toward him.

Am I right in thinking this would work? See I haven't played as or against the rats so this is new to me, and I've never seen them as a real valuable unit. I'm thinking that I should rethink my thinking though ;)

The rats are great, though I like to have more than one squad of them myself. You often only need to put a couple of markers on them in the very beginning of the game and scatter usually takes care of the rest of your rat movement from then on. That leaves you free to put all of your counters on ranged units who can take shots at your opponents while tied up with rats.

[Faartknocker]

Excellent responses, Grungebob and Kenjib. I could not have answered better or more completely. Cheers!

[markwars]

Krug's a pretty good counter to Q9. Even though Krug only has a movement of five, he should be able to hunt down the major before too long. If you try an Arrow Grut beast bonding army, Q9 won't be a problem at all.

At the October DFW tourney I used this army:

Krug - 120
Arrow Gruts x 2 - 80
Swog Rider x 2 - 50
Me Burq Sa - 50
Krav Maga - 100

In the very first round I played Imax. He used this army:

Q9 - 180
Gladiatrons x 2 - 160
Blastatrons - 60

I could describe the entire battle but in the end it came down to my unwounded Krug vs. his unwounded Q9. At that point it became a cat and mouse exercise so I just pressed towards him and hoped to get the initiative to engage with him. Q9 made a fatal error and didn't move far enough away and I caught him and hit him with 8 attack dice resulting in 6 skulls. His two shield roll didn't do the trick and I won. Since Imax is sporting I had him roll what would have been the next initiative roll. I won again so I would have been able to engage. Bringing down Q9 with Krug is tricky but it can be done.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Since Imax is sporting I had him roll what would have been the next initiative roll. I won again so I would have been able to engage. Bringing down Q9 with Krug is tricky but it can be done.
You know MW, Guerillanator got me into to doing those 'What if' rolls. Always fun to see what could've been.

[markwars]

Lil Newbie and I played a game that lasted the full hour. After it was called and points were counted we played on during the break before the next game. You can never get enough Hex right?

[Cavalier]

Lil Newbie and I played a game that lasted the full hour. After it was called and points were counted we played on during the break before the next game. You can never get enough Hex right?
RIGHT!!








Oh wait, you said HEX :P

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I sure hope he said HEX. If he said otherwise, I'd never be able to get that image of MW and NewB out of my mind.
:shock:

[Hendal]

Hey FartKnocker,

I used the same army at cupids art tourneyment in Sept., and faced the same army - I lost to the same army from bad stategy. But no one was worried about LOS by the front only, but I don't remember if it would have come into play or not.

[Faartknocker]

Greetings, Hendal.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see that a few people have used the same army in the past. I suppose it serves to show the general appeal of the Major Q9 - Raelin combo supported by Krav Maga Agents and a squad of Deathreavers.

I anxiously await the arrival of Wave 6. Perhaps it will contain units that are completely IMMUNE to ranged attacks (such as the ghosts?). The Elite Onyx Vipers have a great defense against ANY ranged attacks, but, once they close in, their great defense vanishes and, unless they frenzy, they're almost certainly not worth their price. Cheers!

[Hendal]

Hey FN,

Oh yea we know the power of Q-9 Raelin combo. Like I posted before , for tourneyments I think you almost have to go with the Krav, and Q-9 is the best Krav killer I know, so you need him in their also. Add Raelin to either and you have a tough unit or hero to stop, plus it makes people concentrate on killing Raelin, which is the whole point of having her ( letting your other guys attack with out reprocussion ).
At the tourney's I have been to, Q-9 is the guy no one really wants to face off against, but as is the nature of the game, it all comes down to the luck of the dice.....

In the 1st tourney I used that army with I attacked my own rats to get the glyphs, I knew it was cheesy to do, but they made the cards wrong and I exploited it. At my tourneyment I went an oddball #, 425 thinking people had to use units that ended in 5 or give up a little. SO their I chose Shotgun Jonny and dropped the roborats. It did really well, as was expected. BUt I think the rats add a big part to it, to slow down ground squads coming at Q-9, or to get glyphs ( Q-9 moving 7 is so sweet ).

[Grungebob]

The only time I faced Q9 in our tournament I simply dropped him with Dead eye Dan in one well placed shot. :freddy:

[deadeyedan42]

The only time I faced Q9 in our tournament I simply dropped him with Dead eye Dan in one well placed shot. :freddy:

But he can only shoot down small or med figures. Cheater! j/k

[LilNewbie]

GB has a letter from Craig that says he can use Q9's ability versus any figure. :D

Newb.

[Grungebob]

The only time I faced Q9 in our tournament I simply dropped him with Dead eye Dan in one well placed shot. :freddy:

But he can only shoot down small or med figures. Cheater! j/kNOT!

[Eclipse]

The only time I faced Q9 in our tournament I simply dropped him with Dead eye Dan in one well placed shot. :freddy:

But he can only shoot down small or med figures. Cheater! j/k

Sharpshooter has no size restriction. The Ullar Enhanced Rifle is limited by size though.

[Skeletor]

I took out Krug with dead eye dan once

man that was a brutal game

[Ketch]

Man, I didn't see this thread before...
I read most of the posts I believe, I have a few comments.

Awesome post FK. I was thinking of many of the same things the other day.
The one point I always emphasize about him is any other figure with 8+ range is on the low end of life AND low end of defense. Not to mention none have 4 attack. Q9 breaks all these generalities. Also being a hero figure, normally he would have the main hero weakness, which is usually their limited number of attacks. A single squad unit surrounding a hero is devastating. Well, in this case, his special attack is the icing on that cake...

Like GB said, one of the sour points of any high cost figure is the instant kill. Not only does it suck more, but your opponent is more likely to TRY than if they were facing an average cost figure, let me tell you.. 10% or 5% or whatever % the figure might be can come up a lot more than you want it to.

Another comment was made about using Krug. I agree, strong melee units with either lots of life or fast movement and lots of punch can really scare a Q9 user.
The thing I completely disagree with is any bonding against Q9! or at least.. I strongly suggest you be careful. JAZZ, my Arch nemesis... loves Q9, and I love Macdirk and the warriors.. his fav strat is ignore Macdirk and kill the runts, which works usually in 2 or less turns... not rounds.. TURNS... The orc archers would die in one turn almost guaranteed and you would lose all your turns on Krug.

That being said, I do use bonding with MacDirk against him, but I usually keep the warriors out of Quiglix range, until MacDirk has engaged.
The reason I like to use MacDirk is he can usually get in 2 attacks.


Oh, and last observation about Q9 is once you got Q9 in the scrum you always put all your markers on him. What often happens is you will lose Q9 unnexpectantly and boom.. you lose a lot of turns, and suddenly your opponent is in your deployment zone eating away at your reserves uncontested. I've seen this happen half the time Q9 dies.

I've never used Q9 though. I don't like how strong he is. But this not shooting behind him thing.. I never heard this. I feel the Krav and AE will be little more effective now.. instead of just.. laying down and dying.

[Faartknocker]

Hi, Ketch (A.K.A. "The Champ" - congrats again!)

Thanks for the kind words. Your points are well-made.

In all the times I've used Major Q9, I've never been disappointed - even when I've lost. To me, Major Q9 is the only full-value large unit in the game. Krug is a distant second, and useful only in certain scenarios and against certain armies. Major Q9 is almost always useful and this makes him that much more valuable for a tournament, where scenarios and opposing armies are constantly changing.

Try him out soon and let me know how it goes. Cheers!

[markwars]

Hi, Ketch (A.K.A. "The Champ" - congrats again!)

Thanks for the kind words. Your points are well-made.

In all the times I've used Major Q9, I've never been disappointed - even when I've lost. To me, Major Q9 is the only full-value large unit in the game. Krug is a distant second, and useful only in certain scenarios and against certain armies. Major Q9 is almost always useful and this makes him that much more valuable for a tournament, where scenarios and opposing armies are constantly changing.

Try him out soon and let me know how it goes. Cheers!

I'm not going to take anything away from Q9, but I have to disagree with your assessment of Krug being "useful only in certain scenarios and against certain armies". Krug is useful on virtually any map and if used correctly is decent against just about any army. With Krug as my centerpiece unit I was able to take 2nd place at the DFW tourney - winning against a lot of different armies on widely varied maps.

[TheMightyAargh]

I'd like to take this back to the shooting arc situation with Q9 if no one minds.
And if they do? Tough.

As I'm reading this, it seems that Q9 is the only character that doesn't have a 360 shooting range....because he has big shoulder pads and no neck. Okay I can see maybe a need to "de-power" him, but like that?

So Q9, in theory, couldn't say twist at the waist then? He's a robot, and all my robot friends can do these kind of things. I mean for all it matters, maybe his little wee head retracts into his chassis and pops out the backside! Either way, having him not being able to shoot all around makes as much sense as letting Krug be able to. Think about it. Not like Krug is a giraffe or anything. And with that rotund belly, you know he can't turn too well. And I'd definitely put money down against him having double-jointed shoulders!

I don't know. I'm still not buying this. I suppose I should though, as I don't play as Q9, but mainly against him...and this is a fairly large advantage.

Hmmm....I must ponder this in my Sanctum Sanctorum.

The Mighty Aargh away!

[Ketch]

I'd like to take this back to the shooting arc situation with Q9 if no one minds.
And if they do? Tough.

As I'm reading this, it seems that Q9 is the only character that doesn't have a 360 shooting range....because he has big shoulder pads and no neck. Okay I can see maybe a need to "de-power" him, but like that?

So Q9, in theory, couldn't say twist at the waist then? He's a robot, and all my robot friends can do these kind of things. I mean for all it matters, maybe his little wee head retracts into his chassis and pops out the backside! Either way, having him not being able to shoot all around makes as much sense as letting Krug be able to. Think about it. Not like Krug is a giraffe or anything. And with that rotund belly, you know he can't turn too well. And I'd definitely put money down against him having double-jointed shoulders!

I don't know. I'm still not buying this. I suppose I should though, as I don't play as Q9, but mainly against him...and this is a fairly large advantage.

Hmmm....I must ponder this in my Sanctum Sanctorum.

The Mighty Aargh away!

I do not think they made the rule because it makes sense in a fantasy sort of way... but because they had to for game balancing reasons.

I don't want to say Q9 is overpowered, I have a slight bias, I must admit, anyone does.. but I think it's good that he cannot shoot behind him.

As long as this is the official word...

[ASmiles]

It's not that Q9 is the only figure that is shaped like that, it's that he's the only ranged, double-based figure like that. If Krug or Dumutef were a ranged figure, they would likely have the same limitation. But since line of sight is not necessary for melee attackers, it is a non-issue.

By my count, there are 5 character who have range and double-bases. There's the 3 dragons with their breathing of fire, poison and ice shards. There Me-Burq-Sa and Q9.

MBS, Nilfhelm and Braxas all have their heads well above their wings and body, making a 360 view feasible. So it's just mimring with those wide wings, but the rulebook makes it pretty clear that the fire breath power works differently than a normal line of sight attack.

Q9 is kind of in a class by himself, until other oddly shaped double-based ranged figures are released.

[Sweetcurse]

I have to say that I do not like the ruling on Q9. It just complicates the game in ways I find uneccessary. It makes little sense to me that we cannot simply assume he turns his waist to look to the side. A shooter does not need to trun the body completely but simply twist at the waist to shoot in that direction. I like the simplicity of the facing, or lack of thereof, in heroscape. If you can "see" the target, you can shoot it. Having to look trhough your character's head is uneccessarily complicated. It wouldn't bother me at all if someone wanted to shoot with Q9 figure that are behind him since we do not worry about positionig the figures, specially since there is hardly any friction between the figs and the hexes, which means they end up getting moved all the time. Double hexed figs have enough moving restrictions as it is to add another one.

Which reminds me, what would be a good thing to add to figure bases so they don't slide. Glue-gun glue? sillicone?

[Sweetcurse]

I'd like to take this back to the shooting arc situation with Q9 if no one minds.
And if they do? Tough.

As I'm reading this, it seems that Q9 is the only character that doesn't have a 360 shooting range....because he has big shoulder pads and no neck. Okay I can see maybe a need to "de-power" him, but like that?

So Q9, in theory, couldn't say twist at the waist then? He's a robot, and all my robot friends can do these kind of things. I mean for all it matters, maybe his little wee head retracts into his chassis and pops out the backside! Either way, having him not being able to shoot all around makes as much sense as letting Krug be able to. Think about it. Not like Krug is a giraffe or anything. And with that rotund belly, you know he can't turn too well. And I'd definitely put money down against him having double-jointed shoulders!

I don't know. I'm still not buying this. I suppose I should though, as I don't play as Q9, but mainly against him...and this is a fairly large advantage.

Hmmm....I must ponder this in my Sanctum Sanctorum.

The Mighty Aargh away!

Man after my heart.


It's not that Q9 is the only figure that is shaped like that, it's that he's the only ranged, double-based figure like that. If Krug or Dumutef were a ranged figure, they would likely have the same limitation. But since line of sight is not necessary for melee attackers, it is a non-issue.

So, if he had his head on high, it wouldn't matter that his guns are facing the other way, or that the enemies are behind him? With his head on high he would turn in his place and shoot 360 degrees. Am I the only one who sees how non-sensical this is?

[kenjib]

I think the real problem is that 2 hex units require 1 movement point to rotate while other units do not. It's this rule that creates the contradiction with the "no facing" principle of the game. As a result, some hacked together and inelegant rules like this Q9 business are going to have to be created one way or another. I consider it a flaw in the game design. There should be no cost to rotate 2 hex units 180 degrees, just as there is no cost for 1 hex units, Q9 shouldn't have LOS restrictions like he does, and he should cost more points to draft. I don't want to hassle with house rules though so I'm just going to play it as-is regardless.

[Eclipse]

MBS, Nilfhelm and Braxas all have their heads well above their wings and body, making a 360 view feasible. So it's just mimring with those wide wings, but the rulebook makes it pretty clear that the fire breath power works differently than a normal line of sight attack.


Mimring can use his horns as sight points. No idea why, but that's what the FAQ says. I extend that rule to Nilf and Braxas for consistency as well. Mimring DOES need LOS to use his Fireline though.

[Hendal]

I agree, Q-9 just doesn't make sense with his LOS issue and not being able to turn. His guns point fowards, if he is to shoot someone on teh side of him, that he can see, then he would need to turn or twist to aim the guns at him, if he twists to shoot the guns, then his LOS would also be greater, more, better? It is kind of crazy, my best explanaiton is because he is so powerful it is to help balancd the game. The shoulder pads are kinda lame , IMO, if they are to protect his head, then why not have something in back also, say from his blind side, so they designed him and never realized the pads would limit his LOS and his range to attack the enemy.

He is still a powerhouse, and I will use him , but I think he is the first power creep in teh game , hence we play a lot where we choose not to use him.

Mark Wars, Krug is nice, but I found he will go down to range to easily, against a good opponent. The game just favors range. Truth always brings Krug and the orcs to tourneys, and does well but he has yet to beat me with them, any boards with height and he is at a real disadvantage. Especially if the boards are poorly designed and poor krug can't get up the mountain. ALthough I think the boards are becoming way better as time goes on for touneyments

[Fourshadow]

Sweetcurse, it doesn't make any sense to me either. It just complicates a game that is supposed to be simple..... Why not just up the point value? 200 anyone? 210?

[Jormi_Boced]

Sweetcurse, it doesn't make any sense to me either. It just complicates a game that is supposed to be simple..... Why not just up the point value? 200 anyone? 210?

Because eratta sux.

[spider_poison]

I think there's a point that most people are missing here. Markwars has said that Krug has some usefullness on most maps out there, yet he only has a movement of five and is often restricted because of his double-base. However, even on the most elevated maps, a good player will still find a way to nearly maximize Krug's abilities. Maybe that means rushing him right away; maybe it means saving him until the end. Whatever the case may be, markwars' success with Krug (or anyone for that matter) is largely due to the fact that they adjust to the situation and play accordingly. Sure Krug is slow, but it's not like good players are just going to plop Krug in the middle of a valley to get annihilated!

[TheMightyAargh]

Well, I am back from the Sanctum Sanctorum. After much pondering and reading of excellent quotes I feel much better informed. And, much better prepared to engage in a round of jeopardy....

Quotable Quotations for $100 Alex!

Man after my heart.

What is...glad we could have a Vulcan Mind-Meld moment there. Sadly, I think we're on the losing end of this debate.

Quotable Quotations for $200!

As a result, some hacked together and inelegant rules

Where is....I wanted to quote this yesterday, but couldn't remember who wrote it. I remembered seeing kenjib's wording on the rules. Inelegant. I think that is the absolutely perfect word for it. The ruling may work, but it's far from smooth.

Quotable Quotations for a mighty $300!

Because eratta sux.

Why is....I can definitely see why a facing ruling is favoured over a point increase. The point value is clearly written in not only every spreadsheet and program that you could find, but right on the card! It's hard to feel right about recruiting a guy for X amount of points when it says Y on the card.

Quotable Quotations for $400!

Q9 is kind of in a class by himself, until other oddly shaped double-based ranged figures are released.

How is...I guess you really have to put it in perspective of the model and not as a "character." Thinking as a character you can really screw up all the rules. Imagine fitting Su-Bak-Na under the overhang in Migol's Tomb, just because he could "bend his neck." Or fitting Grimnak in a tight corner, because he could just "move his tail." Start doing things like that and your 1 hour game turns into a 3 hour game just because you're discussing logistics. I would say that this ruling should, if it already doesn't, extend to wings on dragons. I'm pretty sure that you could position a character, like a rat, in a dragon's blindspot if you're lucky.

And finally, Quotable Quotations for $500 Alex!!!

As long as this is the official word...

Who is....I have to say. This is the best reason for me, right now, to play with the facing rule. If you don't play with an official rule (or play with a house rule) and then you enter a tournament, they you've got yourself a disadvantage.

Okay, I think if anything one thing is settled for me. I definitely have to play as, and play against Q9. I think whether or not I care to, I'm going to be seeing plenty more of this figure.

[Pilgrim]

He is still a powerhouse, and I will use him , but I think he is the first power creep in teh game , hence we play a lot where we choose not to use him.


Yeah, I've always maintained that Q9 is the first likely instance of power creep in HS. Even with the limited visibility rulings, he's probably still overpowered (tough to say with certainty - kind of a judgment call). One evidence of his dominance - how many people used him at the last tourny around here!

I'd easily point him at, say, 200 or even up to 220. Range 8 makes him one of the highest ranged figures with only Mimring, Legolas and Clint rivalling him. 4 lives and 7 def makes him incredibly durable. And the special attack enables him to bypass all kinds of defensive abilities (eg Thorian Speed, Disappear, Smoke Powder, Counterstrike). The 9 dice Quiglex makes him an ideal swarm stopper. The major down side to Q9 is mobility. But with range like that, who needs to be able to fly?

Q9 is built to handle almost any threat. He has hardly any natural enemies. So yeah, even with the limited line of sight I still think he should cost more.

[truth]

I agree, Q-9 just doesn't make sense with his LOS issue and not being able to turn. His guns point fowards, if he is to shoot someone on teh side of him, that he can see, then he would need to turn or twist to aim the guns at him, if he twists to shoot the guns, then his LOS would also be greater, more, better? It is kind of crazy, my best explanaiton is because he is so powerful it is to help balancd the game. The shoulder pads are kinda lame , IMO, if they are to protect his head, then why not have something in back also, say from his blind side, so they designed him and never realized the pads would limit his LOS and his range to attack the enemy.

He is still a powerhouse, and I will use him , but I think he is the first power creep in teh game , hence we play a lot where we choose not to use him.

Mark Wars, Krug is nice, but I found he will go down to range to easily, against a good opponent. The game just favors range. Truth always brings Krug and the orcs to tourneys, and does well but he has yet to beat me with them, any boards with height and he is at a real disadvantage. Especially if the boards are poorly designed and poor krug can't get up the mountain. ALthough I think the boards are becoming way better as time goes on for touneyments

I only recall playing you once with Krug, and Krug did successfully take down your Q-9. I just couldn't catch those freaking little Krav Maga and you wouldn't roll blanks!

[kenjib]

I think Nifelheim is the best unit to compare with because, like Q9, he is pretty well rounded. They both have ranged special attacks that can hit multiple targets. Nifelheim's special can do 1 die more damage, but Q9's is more versatile against one shield defense and low defense swarms as well as having a longer range normal attack to fall back on. Nifelheim's special also has the weakness in that he can't target the same unit more than once, so if a single unit is adjacent and not killed by the ice shard, he loses his other two attacks. Nifelheim has much greater mobility due to flying as well as a really strong melee attack to punch through high defense. Q9 doesn't have a good way to punch through a strong defense (and I've definitely felt this shortcoming when using him) but has a very strong defense - perhaps vying with Charos for the strongest of any unit in the game.

Nifelheim hits harder, Q9 lasts longer. They costs a similar amount. I haven't used Nifelheim much though - maybe someone who has used them both extensively can compare on a more practical level.

[Ketch]

I think Nifelheim is the best unit to compare with because, like Q9, he is pretty well rounded. They both have ranged special attacks that can hit multiple targets. Nifelheim's special can do 1 die more damage, but Q9's is more versatile against one shield defense and low defense swarms as well as having a longer range normal attack to fall back on. Nifelheim's special also has the weakness in that he can't target the same unit more than once, so if a single unit is adjacent and not killed by the ice shard, he loses his other two attacks. Nifelheim has much greater mobility due to flying as well as a really strong melee attack to punch through high defense. Q9 doesn't have a good way to punch through a strong defense (and I've definitely felt this shortcoming when using him) but has a very strong defense - perhaps vying with Charos for the strongest of any unit in the game.

Nifelheim hits harder, Q9 lasts longer. They costs a similar amount. I haven't used Nifelheim much though - maybe someone who has used them both extensively can compare on a more practical level.

Good choice for comparison.

One fact you got wrong.. you don't lose your other two shots, special attacks can be used even when engaged on people you are not engaged with.

Still, Q9 would be more balanced if he too could not hit the same unit twice. Krav would stand a chance. Its because he can hit the same unit over and over that the 1 dice attack works, and also because once one or two units are dead, or being attacked by a hero.. Nilfheim looses 2/3 of his power, Q9 loses none, and still always has that option of 4 attack at 8 range, or 5 at height because its not a special.
4 life + 7 Defense > 6 life 4 defense, especially at range... against tough melee people they will last about the same, but against 3 attack range dudes, Q9s 4 life will stretch a LONG way.. where as 3 attack > 4 defense and dwidles quickly.

Nilfheim is 1 faster and can fly though, so that makes up slightly for Q9s 8 range, but I would not say all of it. And those wings get me blocked from entering spots so often.

[Tiberius]

Sorry Ketch, I beleive you have that wrong and are confusing special attacks with special abilities like Braxas Acid breath. The ice shard special attack is subject to the rules of adjacency where if someone is beside you, you have to shoot them and cannot shoot a nonadjacent opponent until that guy is gone. Special abilities do not have that draw back. Special attacks do.

[Ketch]

You are right,
and I sort of knew that, but anyway, thats another + for Q9.
(too many ++++s IMO).

[Hendal]

Hey Truth,

Your right, I forgot that at your tourney it was Mimrig that put the hurting on krug.
At CA's tourney, I was sick and played oh so wrong, but still gave you your only loss of the day.
At my tourneyment we didn't meet up, all thought by chance we where suppose to for the 3rd time in a row, there is always next year.

[Cherubim1979]

I also was at this tournament... I did not have Q9 on my team but I was also not so feared of him. I played two opponents who happened to have Q9 drafted on their team, the reason I was not affraid was that I had the Knights and the Jandar flag bearer... The knights allow a human champion to take a turn first.. now the flag bearer not only takes his own turn but then allows you to roll the Jandar dice and each Jandar symbol that shows up allows each knight you control to move 1 space per Jandar symbol and then the knights get their normal move of 4 on top of that, and so in short with Q9 only having a movement of 5 can quickly be tied up by the knights who each hit at 3 attack (4 attack if adjacent to the flag bearer) and who each have a defence of 4. In the end Q9 is usually taken down, now mind you the flag bearer cost 105 and the knights cost 70 so it pretty much costs the same as Q9 himself. Anyways, I won both games that involved Q9, I never did get to play against you though Faartknocker, which is a shame because you did really well in the tourney! :)

[Morghul]

Indeed Q-9 is a strong one...but there is always a ¨ talon d'achille ¨ like in the greek mythos.

[nickmodaily]

Indeed Q-9 is a strong one...but there is always a ¨ talon d'achille ¨ like in the greek mythos.
I've found that a squad of Minions can put some serious hurt on Q9. Their defense is high enough that they have a chance of getting close, and with flying, they can get higher ground a lot easier than Q9.

[Faartknocker]

Greetings, everyone.

One of the best ways to counter Major Q9 is to ensure that the scenario features at least one "summoning" glyph. Cheers!

[Jotun]

One important new thing to note about Q9 is that, because he follows Vydar, with Laglor his range can be 10 - on par with Deadeye Dan, the longest range unit in the game. With height and as a large figure this has serious (though as yet untested by me) potential as a castle door busting combo.

~Aldin

Aldin and JCB both mentioned Laglor adding to Q9's special attack. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand, special attacks cannot be enhanced by anything, neither glyphs, height or figure enhancements. Therefore, Q9 would not get the extra bonus to his range from Laglor.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

He gets the bonus range, just not when he uses Quiglex Gun Special Attack.

[Jotun]

Ahhh... :duh:

I knew I would be wrong, just didn't know how.

[Faartknocker]

Greetings.

Yes, Jotund, that's one of the things that makes Major Q9 so deadly: its astounding versatility. It allows a player more CHOICES than any single unit, and thus it's useful against almost any opposing army in almost any scenario. Cheers!

[Aranas]

From the FAQ current as of Oct 21st:

Can Major Q9’s shoulder pads block his own line of sight?
Yes. When checking to see if you have a clear line of sight with Q9, you may want to look behind the targeted figure’s Hit Zone to see if you can see Q9’s head, or the side of his face. He cannot fire directly behind himself.
That's kinda weird, since it explicitly contradicts the FAQ on the Heroscape website: (http://www.hasbro.com/heroscape/default.cfm?page=faq#rules)
If a figure is not facing another figure that he is attacking, does he have line of sight?
Facing does not matter when determining Line of Sight. The best way to tell if your Attacker has a clear Line of Sight is to get behind its head and look at the targeted figure. If you can see any part of it from its head, you have a clear Line of Sight. The facing of the attacker's head does not matter.
By that ruling, he should at least be able to fire directly backwards, sighting "between" his shoulder pads.

Honestly, the limited fire arc for Major Q9 seems like a reasonable limit on a very powerful character, especially a huge, lumbering robot. He simply can't turn around as fast as others can. I just wish Hasbro would get their story straight. :(

I bolded the part of the second of the second question that applies. Q9's head sticks out from his body and you can not draw line of sight from his head to anything behind him.
Sorry to bring this topic back but, although I was aware of Q9's shoulder pads blocking his own LOS, I completely missed the part of "not being able to fire directly behind himself."

I will even use this on myself: :lastweek:

Yet, I'm pertty sure I am not the only one who missed that part!
Last but not least, many great posts in that thread.


Aranas

[RichardD]

It's a peculiarity in his (and several other soulborg) sculpt - his head isn't on top of and between his shoulders with a neck, it's in his chest. DW9k is very similar. But DW9k doesn't have the nuisance shoulder pads, and can rotate on his base. OTOH, DW9k doesn't have anything like as versatile an attack.

[Tiberius]

In the cincinnatti tourney, the Q9 LOS thing only came into play once and it really wasnt that big a deal because on the next turn i simply turned him around. So overall, it really wasnt that big of a detriment.

[Hendal]

Tiberius, did anyone fire behind them in the tourney, I didn't realize he couldn't fire behind him, that really blows IMO.

I have been looking at Q-9, and the figure is kinda weird if you look at it, take a look at the shoulder pads, just really pig hollow metal plates, so why would the designer make them that big, and why should they be part of the hit zone, there is nothing in them, so if they got shot it shouldn't hurt the robot, basically they are just a really big extra hit zone, besides blocking LOS. They could be a 1/3 as big and still cover the head fine and not be such a target to get shot at. IF Q-9 can't shoot backwards then why wouldn't you make a plate behind his head to protect it from getting shot?? Use some of the super tall shoulder pads to actually protect the head - put it in back. It just seems really strange to me, not a well thought out sculpt , again IMO.

[RichardD]

1 movement point to turn around is no big deal IMO. It's not the shooting behind that limits the Major, but his restricted sight to the sides, making him easier to flank.

Kind of like a bunker - big, solid shooty thing, very hard to take out frontally, but needs to be engaged frontally while the right sort of troops hit it from the sides or behind.

Anyone started calling him "Joan", yet? (on account of the shoulder pads)

[Aranas]

Tiberius, did anyone fire behind them in the tourney, I didn't realize he couldn't fire behind him, that really blows IMO.

I have been looking at Q-9, and the figure is kinda weird if you look at it, take a look at the shoulder pads, just really pig hollow metal plates, so why would the designer make them that big, and why should they be part of the hit zone, there is nothing in them, so if they got shot it shouldn't hurt the robot, basically they are just a really big extra hit zone, besides blocking LOS. They could be a 1/3 as big and still cover the head fine and not be such a target to get shot at. IF Q-9 can't shoot backwards then why wouldn't you make a plate behind his head to protect it from getting shot?? Use some of the super tall shoulder pads to actually protect the head - put it in back. It just seems really strange to me, not a well thought out sculpt , again IMO.
(I added the red color)

Exactly! If it does block LOS then why should they be part of the hit zone!!! They are shields after all. If not, why are they there at all?


Aranas

[Tiberius]

I thought they were full of ammo! That is why he can shoot so much and so often. Anyhow, Hendal, no one shot me from behind, it was a pretty moot point, there was one time I couldnt target someone until my next turn because I had to turn around, that was about it.

[Hendal]

Hey Tiberius,
Glad you did better at your last tourneyment, No the shoulder pads are hollow, check em out, kinda strange,

I have shot backwards with Q-9, so I need to change that, oh well, live and learn

[gamjuven]

I think Q9 is well balanced. That is a lot of points to be put into one character. He can earn his points back, but he has to kill a lot in order to do that. I have found that he doesn't earn his points back more often. I just played a game last night against a viper army, which should mean that Q9 would crush. My opponent had 4 squads of venoc vipers, elves, mittens, and armoc vipers. I thought I'd have smooth sailing with Q9 alone. His first turn he killed 5 vipers (they all had height advantage), and I was thinking: this should be easy. But then the next turn when they scrambled down to me and without height, i only killed 2 of them! Very depressing. They also managed to wound me twice and the next turn they got initiative and frenzied Q9 to death. He finished off only killing 80 pts of vipers off, a full 100 pts below himself. He tends to do that a lot. The 7 defense is a lot but he only has 4 wounds and 3 attacks with 2-3 skulls each time will kill him fairly quickly. He has his games but without more support he tends to get killed too easily IMO.

[Hendal]

gamjuven,

Try him with raeling, the extra defense really makes him a lot harder to kill, if the snakes would have attacked raelin, then Q-9 has that much more time to attack them. Your right he can go down quick, but I have found he usually does kill his points worth. With his long range regular attack I found it better to make your enemy come to you, so they don't have the whole gang within range. Putting a squad of roborats out in front of him is also a great idea to tie the enemy up, make them take a desengage to get past you, with their scatter ability they can get out of range of attacks when you have a few engaged, but still block the way for Q-9 by moving back one.
If the frenzy is working, it is tough to beat. Mittens can usually do some damage to Q-9 with his 4 attack. Try not to leave Q-9 where 1 range units can attack him with a height advantage.