The Book of Icy Road Map

[Griffin]

The Book of Icy Road Map

A C3G Competitive Map


http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/maps/C3G_IcyRoad.png
Download the PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/maps/C3G-MAP_IcyRoad.pdf)


SETUP: 1 Rise of the Valkyrie Master Set, 1 Road to the Forgotten Forest, and 1 Thaelenk Tundra.


MAP BIO: A dangerous and deadly bridge winds silently through an old lake that has been frozen for years. Recent military activity has warmed the road however, and the lake has begun to thaw. No one knows what the military is doing exactly, and of course the government denies everything, but some of the locals believe that there is an ancient Norse evil that once visited these waters, and the sudden occupation of this mortal military may awaken that which was forgotten.... and feared by men.

_________________________________________________________________


-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Davidlhsl (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1534344&postcount=806)
Red Eyed Jedi (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1542745&postcount=41)

[tcglkn]

Looks great. Can't wait to try this one out. I love using my Tundra set.

[davidlhsl]

Very nice! I was about to log off and take down the snowy Moon Base when I caught this, so I might actually build this.

Are the 24-hex rock tiles the suggested start zones?

[davidlhsl]

Here you go:


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Map%20building/IR001.jpg

[Griffin]

Very pretty. :D

Yeah, the stone 24s are suggested start zones.

[johnny139]

Interesting. The asymmetry bothers me, but, unless you add on two more sets, there's nothing else to do - and that'd be wicked overkill.

[A3n]

so what's the road?

[Griffin]

I guess it is whatever your imagination dreams up.

[A3n]

I guess it is whatever your imagination dreams up.

No I mean on this map, what is supposed to be the road?

Is it just the actual road pieces or the ice & water or something of the 2 combined or what?

[Griffin]

Seriously? :lol: Is it not clear that the road is the road, and the frozen lake is the frozen lake?

[A3n]

Seriously? :lol: Is it not clear that the road is the road, and the frozen lake is the frozen lake?

I wasn't sure if it was your intent that the road just be that single hex path, or if the "lake" was supposed to be part of the road frozen over. I was going to say I didn't like it if it was the latter. But since it's not then ok.

I'm just not a fan of the single hex path representing a road but I can live with it. :shrug:

It is a pretty map though, wish I had a Tundra set :(.

[quozl]

It's a very nice map but A3n does have a point that C3G typically represents roads as wider than that.

Would you mind renaming the map to "Icy Path"? :)

[Griffin]

In the mountains or in Canada, it is very typical to have a road be just big enough for a one way, even though it should accommodate two lanes. C3G roads are just as diverse as real roads. Some are much larger than others.

[A3n]

In the mountains or in Canada, it is very typical to have a road be just big enough for a one way, even though it should accommodate two lanes. C3G roads are just as diverse as real roads. Some are much larger than others.

So it's kinda the way the space shuttles rocket boosters relate to a horses behind, huh?

[Margloth]

In the mountains or in Canada, it is very typical to have a road be just big enough for a one way, even though it should accommodate two lanes. C3G roads are just as diverse as real roads. Some are much larger than others.
Heck, sometimes you're lucky if the road is even paved! :lol:

My imagination tells me this is obviously a little-used road, probably running on the outskirts of a wilderness area. Looks like a great stage (along with your frozen dam map) for a Wolverine-discovers-himself campaign!

[Scapemage]

Low set count, looks great, I approve! :up:

[Good Pig]

Looks pretty cool Griffin. :)

[Hahma]

Very nice. :D

And thanks David for the photo of the real map.:up:

[tcglkn]

Can someone make me a quick PDF for this map? VirtualScape won't run on my computer or I would just open the file there.

[Shedim Kabal]

Can someone make me a quick PDF for this map? VirtualScape won't run on my computer or I would just open the file there.
Icy Road PDF (http://www.mediafire.com/?ve32k1u369mwton)

[Bloody Bogle]

This map looks great. Its really a pity I have family coming to stay with me in a week.

Apartment + Big Family = No heroscape until after they leave :(

Otherwise I'd already have the pdf printing.

[Taeblewalker]

I like the simplicity of the design as well. The open space and glaciers give the heroes plenty of play room.

[tcglkn]

Can someone make me a quick PDF for this map? VirtualScape won't run on my computer or I would just open the file there.
Icy Road PDF (http://www.mediafire.com/?ve32k1u369mwton)

Thanks man. I haven't seen you around C3G before so welcome to this part of the boards. :D

[Shedim Kabal]

Thanks man. I haven't seen you around C3G before so welcome to this part of the boards. :D
Y'all have a lot of inspiring maps hiding out in this ol' part of town, but I guess I don't gotta tell ya that.

;)

[Hahma]

Thanks man. I haven't seen you around C3G before so welcome to this part of the boards. :D
Y'all have a lot of inspiring maps hiding out in this ol' part of town, but I guess I don't gotta tell ya that.

;)

Nice to see you around these parts Shedim. I remember seeing you a couple times at GaryLASQs game events. Glad you like the stuff here and hopefully you'll give some superheroscape a try, it's a real blast. :D

[Griffin]

Thanks Shedim. You know you are welcome to join in and participate with C3G right? We would love to have you.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Hey Griff, I like this map for use with all Heroscape...nice job!

[Griffin]

Thanks. Some BoV maps really inspired this one.

[quozl]

I think this is ready for playtesting.

[Taeblewalker]

I'd say it's ready too.

[Griffin]

Yeah, but I won't get around to doing it until after CHRISTmas.

[davidlhsl]

Here's my battle (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1534344#post1534344)on the map.

When I set it up, I wasn't a huge fan of the walls, as I felt they hindered access via that flanking route. However, there is a space on either side non-fliers could use.

The road is the most efficient means to reach the other side, but the road is vulnerable to the high ground on either side. I love that aspect of the map.

I played with slippery ice, and I think that probably hinders movement more than heavy snow would.

It's certainly a large map and really feels big when playing.

[Griffin]

Here's my battle (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1534344#post1534344)on the map.Thanks.

When I set it up, I wasn't a huge fan of the walls, as I felt they hindered access via that flanking route. However, there is a space on either side non-fliers could use.Yes, and I wanted to make it so that any flanking units had to either go behind the wall and give up line of sight on the road, or go in front of the wall and risk being engaged by units on the road.

The road is the most efficient means to reach the other side, but the road is vulnerable to the high ground on either side. I love that aspect of the map.Yep, there is a risk VS reward feature there; something us Heroes talk about a lot and I really value as it keeps the game interesting. You can either take the long way and keep height, or go the fast way straight through and be vulnerable to attacks from the hills. Something makes me think that Flash will careless go where he wants to. :lol:

I played with slippery ice, and I think that probably hinders movement more than heavy snow would.
I could see that, since there is so much ice being used near the road.

It's certainly a large map and really feels big when playing.Cool. This is one where I want the armies to really explore and find battles in different locations.

[Griffin]

I propose we move to playtesting.

[Hahma]

yea

[quozl]

Yea

[Good Pig]

Yea

[johnny139]

Yea, why not?

[Taeblewalker]

Yea

[A3n]

Yea

[Red Eyed Jedi]

Icy Road Map test:

Map size, set up thoughts, nothing most scapers couldn't look just look at the map and see, Just thought I would note them.

When setting up this map my initial thoughts were, man this is a big one. Its just about a half hex longer than my 4 foot table, and about 2 1/2 foot at its widest point. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, just pointing it out. This is if you position it like I did on the table, with the SZ's at the far end.

It should be noted that it is diamond shaped, and even though it's big, If your gaming table will fit a 4 by 2 1/2 foot map. You should have plenty of room for cards and dice, as it's diamond shape leaves some room on either side for these.

It uses 3 sets only, and set up is pretty easy, several one hex's to place in that first level but were are all used to map building so no big deal there. I think Griff used about every hex in those 3 sets as well.

It's not a perfectly symetrical (sp?) map. with the Great Evergreen trees on one side, longer wall, different Ice structures, but without using a bunch more sets this can't be helped and they are placed well as to not give much, if any advantage to either player.
The short Ruin has an Evergreen Tree adj making it as long as the long Ruin, Ice structures lined up so their hex "footprint" is the same. Their L-O-S potential is different but again, can't be helped. 3 Evergreen Trees and a road hex equal same hex 'Footprint" and almost same L-O-S blocker as the Great Evergreen Tree. The difference's of all these are laid out nice on the map and I wouldn't suggest moving them. Well maybe that road hex, (by the three Evergreen Trees) but only if it affect's game play significantly.
What's up with that single water hex all by itself though?

Overall a nice looking map. Looks fun to play on, lots of area's for the super's to move around on. Now lets get to that fun, and play on it!
I played three games on this map.

The games.
First game was:
Team 1. Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spiderman (C3G) Human Torch (Jim) 850 points.
Team 2. Winter Soldier, Elektra, Bullseye, Hand Ninja (x3) 840 points.

In this game, all C3G optional rules are on. Heavy snow, normal ice. Winter Soldier picks Iron fist for his Mark.

Cage moves Torch out around the side, while he and Fist go down the road, Spidey left in SZ for clean up duty. As Iron Fist moves so does Winter Soldier moving around the side of the map on the opposite side of Torch. Hand swarm out from SZ mostly around the ruin setting up ambush w/height, again opposite side of Torch, bonded with Elektra who moves down road. Cage and Fist run smack into middle of ambush and with Winter Soldiers Mark and height, (from the 2 hex grass on 3rd level) they almost destroy Iron fist. Cage and Fist rally destroying several Hand and Elektra, before she does any damage! Iron Fist uses Focus Chi and heals some much needed wounds. Torch moves in and Fireballs several Hand before getting basically one shot destroyed (even though he's on the Road Hex adj to the 3 Evergreen Trees) by the Hand and the bonded Bullseye with his Deadly Aim from height. (from the height on three hex rock space over by the dirt and road next to the SZ) Iron fist and Cage destroy Bullseye. but are then destroyed by Winter Soldier and his mark and the remaining hand. WS isn't wounded and makes decision not to mark Spidey, and go back to his SZ. Not many Hand left to bond with though. Spidey v/s WS and 2 Hand for the game! With his range WS tries to "kite" Spidey, but to no luck, his Spidey Sense and a hot D20 keep him safe and unwounded, Spidey keeps destroying Hand till there all gone with his range, and finally gets WS in a spot to Web Sling him over and destroys him for the game winner. With some lucky rolls including that hot d20. Team Cage wins with Spidey w/3wounds.

Really fun game, used almost all the map, majority was near the Hand's SZ, both sides and the road. the Ruins provided a nice staging point for an ambush on the figures moving down the road. End game had WS moving around a lot and ending up near team Cages SZ. The height on either side of the SZ was used many times as well.

Game 2 was. All C3G optional rules. Heavy Snow, Slippery Ice.

Team 1. Laufey, Snow Giants (x4) 1240 points.
Team 2. Thor, Bucky, Iron Man, (Hasbro) Captain America, (C3G) Spiderman (C3G) 1220 points

Laufey has a Giant stand on the Casket of Winter in his SZ to make the map super snowy and icy. He and the rest of Giants move down the road. Cap, Bucky move out to one side of the map. Iron Man moves out along the other. Thor moves down the road, and brings the pain on Laufey and a Giant with his Thunder Strike. The Giants deal some wounds to him in return. Next few rounds are back and forth, Between the Giants, and Cap, Bucky on OM 1 and rest on Thor who keeps dealing the wounds to Laufey.(including KB into a glacier, on the 2 hex road spaces between the glaciers) Giants focus on Cap a little to much, but do destroy him. Laufey falls to Thor shortly after. Giants heal off some glaciers and destroy Iron Man with a lucky attack roll, and a bad defense roll on his part. but he went down swinging destroying 1 in the process. Thor is to much for the giants though and he finishes off the remaining Giants for an easy win. After Laufey fell, my bud kinda lost hope and could have made it a little closer I think. Team Thor wins this one easy. Spidey still in SZ with no wounds. Bucky with 3 wounds. Thor with 6 wounds.

Road was used mainly by Laufey and his Giants, ...and Thor. Cap, Bucky, Iron Man used the areas around the sides in front of, and behind the Ruins, and near the Great Evergreen Tree. (I'm liking that 2 hex grass space on level 3) The snow and dirt area in front of team Laufey's SZ was used as well, when Thor was cleaning up. Ice Rock was thrown but did no damage.

Game 3 was. No C3G optional rules, normal snow and ice.

Team 1. Prof X. Jubilee, Rogue, Gambit, Angel, Jean Grey, Spidergirl. 1200 points
Team 2. Captain America, Spiderman, (both C3G) Thor, Bucky, Iron Man (Hasbro) 1220 points

Prof X has Jean, Spidergirl, Jubilee move down on, and along side of the road. Angel carries Wheels from SZ and adj to Ruins. Gambit hangs back, with Rogue who is also on the road. Cap, Bucky move out along one side of map. Iron Man moves around the other side. Spidey left in SZ again. Thor moves down the road, (grip 12 is a miss) and in one shot Thor destroy's Spidergirl. Rogue misses her drain on Thor, Jean throws him for a wound, Jubilee hits bucky. Iron Man attacks Prof X but he uses Psychic defense X and then carried away by Angel. Gambit moves in and deals some wounds on Thor with a good double skull roll on his Card SA, Rogue misses her drain on Thor again. Jubilee destroys Bucky. but is then destroyed by Cap who also almost destroys Jean as well. Gambit attacks Thor again and rolls double skulls several times again. Rogue moves in and attacks the thunder god and Thor is almost out. Thor responds, but is gripped by Jean so he attacks and finshes off the wounded Rogue. Gambit finishes off Thor, with great rolls again and also deals some wounds to Cap. Cap finishes off Jean, but misses Gambit, and with Psychic defense X misses Prof X, Gambit continues to roll great with his Card SA and destroys Cap. Iron Man finally given the OMs necessary and attacks Prof X several times, eventually destroying him but Gambit is on a hot streak with his double skull rolls almost every time and takes out Iron man. Spidey V/S Gambit and Angel for the Game. Spidey misses his Spidey Sense several times and is taken out by the cajun and his devil's luck. Angel unwounded, Gambit with 2 wounds survive this very fun game! Gambit used his Card SA several times and almost got 2 skulls doubling to 4 several, if not almost every time.

This game the part of the field that was used was the road, near the Greater Evergreen Tree, and short Ruin mostly. Opposite side saw some action but not near as much.

Final thoughts.

After playing these games, I like this map a lot. I especially like the 2 hex road spaces between the glaciers, as it is makes a nice place to bottleneck or "clog" up the road and get potential Knockback damage as well. The 2 hex Grass on the third level is great as well and was used several times during my games. The stone wall (bridge walls) are nicely placed but you can go around them and to height near the SZ in one turn, or move into the dirt and then up past them. Looks nice but doesn't slow you down much if you want to go that way. Nothing wrong with that just saying. The Ruins make for a nice place to set up an ambush, on figures coming down the road. As for that walkway single hex by the three Evergreen trees. It was used some in these games, but at most it gave a +1 a couple times but that side didn't see as much action as the other side. I don't know if I like it or not. I prefer the heavy snow and normal ice rules for this map, but I like them for all TT map builds. C3G optional rules are fun on this map as well, but ya know "optional." I Like map's with an option for random glyphs as well, with this map I would put one on each side. On the single rock and water hex, at the corners, that would be a nice option.
If I had to nit-pick on this great map and change something. I guess even though it never came up in the games, that single water hex all by itself looks weird to me. It kind of just gives the map even more of a non symetrical look, IMO. Griffen used almost the hex's in this build and if there isn't a single rock hex unused, there should be some on level 1 or 2 that eventually get covered up. Such as, on level 2 next to SZ it gets covered by a 2 hex grass, then again by the 2 hex rock that makes the height behind the ruins. One side its a grass single other side its a rock single. I'd go for the rock just because that's what's on the opposite side, connected to the 3 hex dirt. I have tried this, and it's still very sturdy even though it does make a visible gap on the side. again nit-picking.
All in all, a great map and a fine addition to the Competitive ones C3G already has. I have this map still up and might get a chance to get some more games in on it. If I do I'll edit and bump it, so ya know.

[Griffin]

Thanks for the tests brother. :D

I propose we move to Final Editing.

[A3n]

Yea

[quozl]

So I thought to myself, "Wait a second, don't we need at least two playtests?"

Then I saw you linked David's play. OK, but did David give any thoughts about the map? I don't see any.

[davidlhsl]

So I thought to myself, "Wait a second, don't we need at least two playtests?"

Then I saw you linked David's play. OK, but did David give any thoughts about the map? I don't see any.

I did post some brief impressions here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1534486&postcount=32) based on the game I played. I only played one game on it, though. It was a fun battle. :)

[quozl]

I guess that meets the requirements since REJ played 3 times.

I'll give my Yea.

[Griffin]

Cool.

[Hahma]

Y
e
A

[Good Pig]

Yessir :)

[Taeblewalker]

Yea

[johnny139]

Ah, I meant to look over the playtests and vote, but now I'm too late by like three days.

I would have voted Yea though and this passes on time!

Again, I'm not thrilled about the asymmetry, but it didn't seem to affect gameplay much, so I'm alright with it. Looking at it, though, the single ice/water spaces off in the distance... I can't say I'm a fan. It's another example of asymmetry, and the only reason anyone would ever step there is to take advantage of ice/water bonus - and in the off chance they would, the decision of start zone would have an impact, and that's something to avoid. I'd recommend removing them.

Otherwise I'm good with the map as-is. Looks nice - a bit bland, perhaps, but with the sets involved that can't be helped. The icy "core" is pretty awesome.

[Griffin]

I think it is good to have asymmetrical maps (even though this one is only slightly so) for those that like it. Also, there is a single ice on one side and a single water on the other. I was my intention to have that be a spot where people could place glyphs if they wanted.

[Red Eyed Jedi]

:duh: Ya know what, I just realized I built this map wrong. I put a rock single hex where that ice single hex should be. They are similar colored though, so an easy mistake to make, I guess. Sorry for the mistake.:oops: That area was never used in my map tests, so I don't think it would have affected my results. I like this map even more know.

[Red Eyed Jedi]

My mistake in the set up for this map seems to have stalled the Final Editing.

I am very sorry to see this happen, I honestly don't think my error would have affected my test games on it though.

This really is a great map. What can I do to help this pass? So that we can get it passed and out to the testers.

[johnny139]

I have no problem with the map as built save for the tiny water/ice corner bits, which I feel are an unnecessary bit of assymetry that only really function - outside of possible house-ruled Glyph pits - as start zone imbalance.

It's not enough for me to stop the map if no one else considers it a problem, but I'd feel better without them, personally.

[Taeblewalker]

I'm pretty happy with the map as is.

[Scapemage]

Since this has been dead the past few days, this map will be used in Week 2 for the League to give you guys some feedback.

[Griffin]

Cool. It really just needs a PDF generated for it, so maybe we can squeeze one out of A3n before we start playing. That way we can test the build instructions.

[A3n]

Cool. It really just needs a PDF generated for it, so maybe we can squeeze one out of A3n before we start playing. That way we can test the build instructions.

I'll squeeze it in when I can. Wish it was bumped over the weekend, I would have had it done :|.

[Scapemage]

I'm making the top view from the VS file, so I don't need a PDF, but one would still be nice.

[A3n]

PDF added to OP.

[quozl]

Cool! But I think it needs startzones too as it's a competitive map.

[A3n]

Cool! But I think it needs startzones too as it's a competitive map.

That would be a pain in the rear as it fitted perfectly on 1 page. :p

Griff you left them out of the VS. I assume it's the 24 hex pieces at the diagnals.

[Griffin]

It is, A3n. Sorry.

[A3n]

Fixed :up:.

[quozl]

Griffin, do you want to propose we release this?

Here's my pre-Yea.

[Griffin]

Not yet. It needs to be built from the PDF one last time. Any takers?

[Red Eyed Jedi]

I'm on it.

[Griffin]

Thanks buddy. Let me know as soon as it is built that the instruction were good, and I can propose we finalize this bad boy. :D

[Red Eyed Jedi]

Finished, build is fine and dandy, I'll post some pretty pictures in the morning. Took me a bit, to take down my maps and build this one, and Table's Sauron's Eyrie.

[Griffin]

Thanks.

I propose we finalize this map.

[davidlhsl]

This is a fantastic map for putting those vehicle rules into action. :thumbsup:

[Red Eyed Jedi]

That sounds like a good idea davidhsl. I think I'll give them a try. Where would you put them? Which vehicles would you use?

Pctures of Icy Road map.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g409/RedEyedJedi1/DIGI0011.jpg
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g409/RedEyedJedi1/DIGI0012.jpg

[davidlhsl]

That sounds like a good idea davidhsl. I think I'll give them a try. Where would you put them? Which vehicles would you use?


On this map, I used the Sports Car. I placed one near each start zone to allow teams to use it to traverse the map.

[quozl]

I propose we finalize this map.

Yea

[Red Eyed Jedi]

Oh ya, I had forgotten you did a Burt's sponsored report on this map, and used the Sports Car in the SZ. I'll take your advice and do the same, thanks. :)

[johnny139]

I still don't see any reason to have those single ice/water tiles but I won't hold up the process over it - solid map otherwise. Yea.

[Griffin]

Oops Mystery glyphs are supposed to be on those ice and water tiles on the sides. A3n, can you update that?

[A3n]

Oops Mystery glyphs are supposed to be on those ice and water tiles on the sides. A3n, can you update that?

I don't think the Mystery glyphs have been designed yet. How about we use random glyphs 'til then? :neener:

[Hahma]

YEA and random glyphs should work. Map looks great :thumbsup:

[Griffin]

Oops Mystery glyphs are supposed to be on those ice and water tiles on the sides. A3n, can you update that?

I don't think the Mystery glyphs have been designed yet. How about we use random glyphs 'til then? :neener:
Good idea. :lol:

[Red Eyed Jedi]

I should have noticed the glyphs. Sorry about that. Good catch Griff.

[A3n]

PDF updated :up:.

[johnny139]

Did we ever get tests with Glyphs? (Do we need them?)

[Griffin]

I don't know.

I don't think so. It's a map, it has glyphs... we pretty much know what that means.

[quozl]

My Yea still stands.

[Taeblewalker]

Mine too.

[quozl]

Shall we update the title and get this posted in the Index?

[Griffin]

Thanks. I updated the title, but before we release it, I would like to build it one time myself. I have my terrain out, and I will do this today.

[Griffin]

A3n, I plan on making some updates I think to this map, and I just want to say this to you before I forget, but don't bother updating just yet: The PDF says under requirements "1 Road through the Forgotten Forest,"

:lol: That is supposed to say "1 Road to the Forgotten Forest"

I hope all of our PDFs aren't like that. :p

[Griffin]

A3n, I plan on making some updates I think to this map, and I just want to say this to you before I forget, but don't bother updating just yet: The PDF says under requirements "1 Road through the Forgotten Forest,"

:lol: That is supposed to say "1 Road to the Forgotten Forest"

I hope all of our PDFs aren't like that. :p
Second thought: go ahead and update the PDF. I just built the map and I like it as is. :up:

I'm moving this to the index now.

[johnny139]

Slightly concerned that we never technically tested with Glyphs, but they seem to be in good spots and mirrored, so I severely doubt there'll be any balance problems - Glyphs are Glyphs and all that.

Looks nice overall... should have some interesting gameplay down the middle. Too bad I don't have any Tundra!

[Griffin]

Slightly concerned that we never technically tested with Glyphs, but they seem to be in good spots and mirrored, so I severely doubt there'll be any balance problems - Glyphs are Glyphs and all that.
Those were my thoughts as well. The glyphs aren't in positions that are concerning in the slightest.

[A3n]

PDF Updated. :up:

[Griffin]

Thanks A3n.

[clembo2021]

After playing around 100 matches on Grundy's Grave I finally stopped being lazy and set up a new map. TBH on Grundy's after 100 plays the "optimal plays" seem pretty obvious (owning the bridge = winning the game). Hopefully this one gives a little more diversity with the roads and the height options.

I changed out the asymmetry to be completely symmetric since I had 2 RttF and and 2 RotVs. Don't hurt me!

[IAmBatman]

Links updated, but jpeg needs moving.

[A3n]

Fixed :up:.

[MegaSilver]

I don't see anywhere what the standard snow/ice conditions are. I guess it's designed to where you get to choose?

[clembo2021]

I've been running Heavy Snow/Regular Ice. Thinking about switching to Heavy/Slippery for the next few games though.

[clembo2021]

My main problem with maps like this that only use one RotV is the inherent imbalance. I use one big wall on each side when I build this. The right side with the small wall+tree is pretty unfair because it's SO much easier to snipe units behind that wall due to the gap between the wall and the tree. And the big tree isn't nearly as effective to hide behind as the 3 trees on the left side, so it can be a lot harder playing on the right side.

[Hahma]

Well Clembo while there may be a little advantage playing from one side of this map than the other, I suppose it depends on the units you use and strategy. Sometimes you won't need to rely that much on hiding, so it won't be that big of a deal. But if there is an issue, then test a unit starting from each side so that it gets any advantage there may be in one of the two army tests.

Maps that use only one Rotv sets are not inherently imbalanced. They have been used for many years as tournament maps and they don't become approved tournament usable maps by being imbalanced. You may have had some issues with this one particular map, but it is not because it's a single Rotv map.

You've done a lot of testing using this map, maybe try another one to get the feel for them.

[IAmBatman]

Not to mention there's a big old tree parked next to the smaller of the two ruins. :-P

[clembo2021]

Here's the problem with the balance between a small wall+tree vs large wall. I'll show it through a diagram.

The spaces that are red can seen from the other space that's red, the one that's blue can be seen from the blue space, and the red/blue one can see both usually (though it can't see the blue one in the back, didn't feel like using 3 colors though):

http://i.imgur.com/6KF82.png

Now compare that to what you can see from in front of the big wall:


http://i.imgur.com/FUN6F.png

You can't see anything from in front of the big wall. The small wall may as well not even be there because of how easy it is to see behind it.

[IAmBatman]

I think you need to position some of your figures better. :-P

[clembo2021]

There is no position on the blue space that can make you safe. It's completely wide open, whereas the big wall is completely safe on all 3 spaces. SOME figures can be safe on the corner space depending on their height and how thin they are, but it's still not even close to being guaranteed. The taller figures can see Prof X through the crack pretty easily.

Not to mention, it's an unnecessary imbalance. I can understand if someone legitimately owns only 1 RotV. But if you have 2 there's no reason not to balance out the map by throwing down a smalls wall+tree on both sides, or a big wall on both sides. Even if it's not ALWAYS a big deal, why have anything that could break the game's balance? And being able to hide a cheerleader figure more effectively on one side CAN break the balance. Trust me, it's happened in our games when I've sniped my brother's figures from positions he wouldn't have been able to on mine.

And we haven't even mentioned the single tree vs the triple trees+the ledge, I'll save that for another day.

[Hahma]

The red corner space in the small ruin should be safe for Prof X.

Ultimately while it's not ideal in some cases, it really shouldn't make it broken by any means. If you have Prof X behind the small ruin/tree area, he can give two activations to Mutants to deal with anyone that can snipe him.

Maps can't account for player skill and tactical ability. If you want to protect a cheerleader, give the opponent someone more dangerous to worry about so they have to decide between attacking the cheerleader or attacking a more dangerous figure. Using cheap figures as fodder can help too as you can be willing to sacrifice certain points worth of figures to distract an opponent as well.

There have been a lot of BOV (Battlefield of Valhalla) maps that have gone through rigorous scrutiny that are similar to this map in only having 1 Rotv sets and use the small ruin/tree combo on one side where there is a large ruin on the other side. This is not a broken setup by any means because people have been playing them in tournaments for many years and maps in tournaments are not meant for any one player to have an advantage.

Try a different map and see how they offer different challenges and options.