C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings [Archive]

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dok

September 23rd, 2011, 12:41 AM

Almost all of you are familiar with the power rankings (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6171) that spider_poison began and Jexik continued. What follows here is an effort at creating a new set of power rankings that includes the custom figures from the C3V and SoV projects. Much of the credit for these rankings, of course, goes to the creators of the original power rankings, upon which all of this is based.

These rankings are maintained by me and do not reflect the consensus views of the C3V project. That said, I will be attempting to maintain and update these rankings based on feedback and, especially, tournament results.

Figures whose metagame power is largely unaffected by the inclusion of figures from C3V and SoV are greyed out. I moved some of these, relative to Jexik's rankings; the ones I moved are in bold (but still greyed out). These changes simply reflect my slightly different perspective on the metagame from Jexik; most of these changes are just shifts of a single grade.

Figures whose ranking moved because of the C3V/SoV figures are given their normal colors:

Warm colors describe units on which you will place the majority of your order markers.
Cool colors describe units that are good even when they don't take many turns.
Purple describes units somewhere in between.
Black units fill niche roles in armies.

As before, * denotes that a unit is common and may likely need to be taken in multiples to achieve full potential. + denotes that a unit is uncommon and may be taken in multiples, but is likely not essential to its success or failure.

Anyway, on to the rankings:

A+
Deathreavers (40*)
Major Q9 (180)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80)

A
4th Mass. Line (70*)
10th Regiment of Foot (75*)
Blastatrons (60*)
Captain America (220)
Fen Hydra (120+)
Gladiatrons (80*)
Grimnak (120)
Heavy Gruts (70*)
Isamu (10)
Knights of Weston(70*)
Krav Maga Agents (100)
Marcu Esenwein (20)
Marro Stingers (60*)
Marro Warriors (50)
Nilfheim (185)
Sir Gilbert (105)
Vulcanmech Incendiborgs (180)

A-
Airborne Elite (110)
Alastair MacDirk (110)
Atlaga (90)
The Axegrinders of Burning Forge (70*)
Black Wyrmling (30*)
Braxas (210)
Cyprien Esenwein (150)
Death Chasers of Thesk (55*)
Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30)
Eltahale (140)
Fire Elemental (35*)
Greenscale Warriors (60*)
Kaemon Awa(120)
Krug (120)
Kurrok the Elementalist (120)
Laglor (110)
Major Q10 (150)
Marcus Decimus Gallus (100)
Marro Dividers (50*)
Me-Burq-Sa (50)
Mogrimm Forgehammer (120)
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50)
Phantom Knights (70*)
Quahon (190)
Roman Legionnaires (50*)
Samuel Brown (60)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170)
Silver Surfer (320)
Ulfrid Hornwrangler (100)
Venom (150)
Zelrig (185)

B+
Agent Skahen (120)
Arashara Goshiri (200)
Arrow Gruts (40*)
Blade Gruts (40*)
Brave Arrow (50)
Capuan Gladiators (70*)
Capt. John Varan (80)
Charos (210)
Crixus (90)
Darrak Ambershard (60)
Deathcommander Mark 3 (130)
Elaria the Pale (60)
Finn the Viking Champion (80)
Goblin Cutters (50*)
Haduc (100)
Havech Eradicators (90*)
Heirloom (90)
Horned Skull Brutes (75*)
Marrden Nagrubs (30*)
Marro Gnids (50*)
Mezzodemon Warmongers (65*)
Minions of Utgar (110*)
Mohican River Tribe (70*)
Mok (220)
Moltenclaw (170)
Ne-Gok-Sa (90)
Ogre Pulverizer (100+)
Omegacron (180)
Omnicron Repulsors (40*)
Omnicron Snipers (100*)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120)
Rachiem (140)
Red Wyrmling (30*)
Sacred Band (50*)
Sentinels of Jandar (110*)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110)
Shurrak (160)
Sir Hawthorne (90)
Skeletons of Annellintia (105*)
Skull Demon (65+)
Spartacus (200)
Spider-Man (160)
Sonya Esenwein (45)
Swog Rider (25*)
Thanos (360)
Theracus (40)
Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80)
Tor-Kul-Na (220)
Van Nessing (105)
Venoc Vipers (40*)
Venoc Warlord (120)
Warforged Soldiers (80*)
Water Elemental (30*)
Zetacron (60)
Zettian Infantry (65*)
Zombies of Morindan (60*)

B
Abomination (320)
Arkmer (50)
Ana Karithon (100)
Ashigaru Harquebus (60*)
Aubrien Archers (70*)
Brunak (110)
Command Courier (35*)
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Deathwalker 8000 (130)
Deathwalker 9000 (140)
Emirroon (80)
Fyorlag Spiders (40*)
Guilty McCreech (30)
Ice Troll Berserker (85+)
Incredible Hulk (370)
Iron Golem (100+)
Izumi Samurai (60)
James Murphy (75)
Jorhdawn (100)
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (65)
Kelda the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Kira Jax (30)
M-43 Resistance Fighters (65*)
Marrden Hounds (90*)
Marro Drones (50*)
Marro Hive (160)
Martial la Hire (70)
Microcorp Agents (100*)
Migol Ironwill (110)
Morgoloth (140)
Morsbane (100)
Myrddin (90)
Nakita Agents (120)
Nicholas Esenwein (140)
Ogre Warhulk (150+)
Othkurik the Black Dragon (140)
Priscus (110)
Protectors of Ullar (110*)
Siege (120)
Syvarris (100)
Taelord the Kyrie Warrior (180)
Tandros Kreel (120)
Torin (120)
Ulginesh (150)
Varkanaan Blade Dancers (80*)
Warden 816 (90)
Warriors of Ashra (50*)
Werewolf Lord (140+)
White Wyrmling (30*)
Zaeus (130)
Zogross Hardscale (120)
Zombie Hulk (60+)
Zettian Guards (70)

B-
Air Elemental (30*)
Anubian Wolves (75*)
Armoc Vipers (65*)
Ashigaru Yari (40*)
Blue Wyrmling (35*)
Chardris (90)
Death Knights of Valkrill (60*)
Deathstalkers (100*)
Drow Chainfighter (25*)
Earth Elemental (35*)
Estivara (80)
Evar Scarcarver (110)
Feral Troll (90+)
Gorillinators (90*)
Granite Guardians (100*)
Iron Man (240)
Iskra Esenwein (50)
Kato Katsuro (200)
Kozuke Samurai (100)
Kyntela Gwyn (20)
Mimring (150)
Mind Flayer Mastermind (100+)
Ornak (100)
Quasatch Hunters (100*)
Retiarius (90)
Rhogar Dragonspine (110)
Sir Denrick (100)
Sonlen (160)
Su-Bak-Na (160)
Tagawa Samurai (120)
Tagawa Samurai Archers (65*)
Tarn Viking Warriors (50)
Tyrian the Kyrie Warrior (110)
Valguard (110)
Wolves of Badru (80*)
Wo-Sa-Ga (135)
Wyvern (100+)

C+
Agent Carr (100)
Brandis Skyhunter (90)
Deathstrike Thrall (30*)
Deepwyrm Drow (70*)
Dr. Doom (245)
Deathstalkers (100*)
Dumutef Guard (25*)
Frost Giant of Morh (140+)
Greater Ice Elemental (130+)
Gurei-Oni (100)
Kumiko (80)
MacDirk Warriors (80*)
Master of the Hunt (140+)
Master Win Chiu Woo (140)
Mika Connour (110)
Ninjas of the Northern Wind (110)
Otonashi (10)
Red Skull (190)
Sharwin Wildborn (110)
Sir Dupuis (150)
Sujoah (185)
Tornak (100)
Tul-Bak-Ra (130)

C
Elite Onyx Vipers (100)
Erevan Sunshadow (80)
Jotun (225)
Kee-Mo-Shi (130)
Khosumet the Darklord (75)
Parmenio (90)
Preyblood Thrall (30*)
Rechets of Bogdan (50)
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Shaolin Monks (80*)

C-
Acolarh (110)
Dzu-Teh (75*)
Dünd (110)
The Einar Imperium (140*)
Empress Kiova (90)
Grok Riders (130*)
Roman Archers (55*)
Runa (120)
Sahuagin Raider (25*)
Shades of Bleakewoode (100*)
Sudema (140)
Templar Cavalry (120*)

D
Deadeye Dan (60)
Deathwalker 7000 (100)
Major X17(100)
Marro Drudge (50*)
Moriko (110)
Obsidian Guards (100*)
Pelloth (100)
Shiori (60)

F
Hatamoto Taro (130)

Finally, here are some quick blurbs for C3V/SoV figures, and for figures whose power ranking changes because of the new figures:

Arashara Goshiri (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41808): A ton of points to sink into such a frail figure, but if you keep her safe, Shifting Sands can be positively game-changing. B+
Capt. John Varan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37538) - Buying a few extra wounds for the Airborne Elite can make all the difference. Not bad with the 4th Mass, either. B+
Chardris (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=21361) - Chardris is likely to get left behind in the crowded elf wizard field, but Haduc certainly helps keep this shooter alive. B-
Command Courier (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41651): Very nice filler for a Vydar army, providing a meat shield, Order Marker flexibility, and a decent cleanup force. B
Deathcommander Mark 3 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47052): Even before you consider his second and third powers, this is Utgar's strongest soulborg. B+
Deathstrike Thrall (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41662): Their powerful self-sacrifice attack synergizes nicely with Nicky and the Preybloods. But it does, you know, kill them. C+
Deathstalkers (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8108): Nice synergies with the Deathcommander, but still pricey and tricky to use well. B-
Deathwalker 7000 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8583) - DW7k is still terrible, but at least now you don't have to waste entire order markers setting up the self-destuct. D
Deathwalker 8000 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8582) - The most playable Utgar Soulborg before the Zettian Infantry gets a little extra offensive punch with a bonding squad. B
Deathwalker 9000 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8404) - No hero benefits more from the Zettian Infantry than DW9k, who finally has a figure that really benefits from his Range Enhancement. B
Elaria the Pale (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41812): Even if her cheerleading abilities are tricky to use, she is tough to take down in cleanup. B+
Emirroon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=21347) - With Haduc's powerful defensive bonus in play, using Emirroon to keep the elf wizards clumped together is more important than before. B
Fyorlag Spiders (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19527) - They're not quite the Greenscales, but a Quahon/Spider army can be a fearsome combination. B
Gorillinators (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8599) - Still terribly vulnerable to special attacks, but Zaeus+G'Nators is a nasty firebase against common squads. B-
Haduc (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37609) - By far, the strongest Elf Wizard. The Elves aren't tier 1 even with him, but they are dangerous against most opponents. B+
Havech Eradicators (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41650): Great stats justify the price. Generally, you're better off taking a melee attack if you can find one, but the risky ranged attack gives you valuable tactical flexibility. B+
Iskra Esenwein (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9617): You don't need the Rechets to play her, and she's a cost-effective add to a Skeletons of Annellintia army. B-
Jorhdawn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=21348) - Still the only crowd control the elf wizards get, and Haduc keeps her alive. B
Kira Jax (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37761) - Nice filler figure whose power makes her a nice counter to Krav or Isamu. M-43s can move her into position. B
Marro Gnids (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37624) - Cheap, fast, and nasty against low-defense heroes. A classic shark squad. B+
M-43 Resistance Fighters (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37800) - Strong as a counterdraft against range+screen builds. Low attack makes them tough to use as bread-and-butter against many armies. B
Martial La Hire (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41817): Strong stats for a low price, but tough to get into position before endgame. B
Mok (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47038): Tough and capable of delivering a ton of damage, but his true price of over 250 (after loading dwarves) is a lot to swallow. B+
Morgoloth (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47017): A beefy cheerleader who elevates the Wolves of Badru and helps the Mezzodemons. B
Morsbane (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8409) - Morsbane gets more benefit from Haduc than any other wizard. Doubling his chance at an instakill is no small thing. B
Myrddin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41814): Effective either as a special attacker with the 4th, or as a booster for high-leverage d20 powers. B
Nicholas Esenwein (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37706) - He's no Cyprien, but healing and bringing back a figure with one kill is a solid combo. If stronger Thralls arrive, he gets stronger. B
Omnicron Repulsors (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25241) - They still die a bit too fast when Raelin isn't in play, but Omegacron makes these guys useful even when you're not facing soulborgs. B+
Omnicron Snipers (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8118) - 3 attacks of 3 with doubled skulls will wreck just about anything, and Omegacron makes that much easier to pull off. B+
Omegacron (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37612) - Much like Spartacus, he takes a bunch of points off the top of your army. But in high point games, the 'cronroller can be devastating. B+
Preyblood Thrall (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37727) - Nice in cleanup against wounded heroes. Nicky+Thralls could be really good in a heroes-only format. C
Priscus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41275): the adjacency requirement prevents him from being truly effective as a low-cost replacement for Spartacus, but he remains a solid gladiator hero that brings a much-needed special attack. B
Rachiem (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47058): Hey, remember when Dragons didn't bond? B+
Quahon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1713230): Less defense than Nilfheim and less life than Braxas, and a pain to move around the map. But LBSA is pretty awesome. A-
Skeletons of Annellintia (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41695): Devastating with a hot d20, but can require subtle play to take advantage of the animation mechanic. B+
Skull Demon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41696): Obnoxiously hard to kill for common squads. Effective either as a standalone hero or as a booster for the Death Knights, who can really use the extra attack. B+.
Tyrian the Kyrie Warrior (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39402) - Fragile, but capable of doing quite a bit of damage as a midgame assassin, or in endgame. B-
Ulfrid Hornwrangler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41584): A strong frontline hero with a powerful special attack that can be used to assassinate a key hero or clear a key space. And even if it backfires, at least your Axegrinders are fast. A-
Van Nessing (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37677) - More than just a counter to undead, Van Nessing is a tough hero who can deliver multiple ranged special attacks using Divine Mission. B+
Varkanaan Blade Dancers (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37764) - Do well when they can get blade defense working, but high price and relative weakness against range makes them tricky to play. B
Vulcanmech Incendiborgs (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41586): If they can work their way to high ground before their markers are gone, they will often dominate the game. A
Warden 816 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9623) - Handy as an add-on in Zettian Infantry builds, and ZI+816 is a decent ranged component in other guard builds. B
Werewolf Lord (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31391) - Rather than playing with the Wolves of Badru, you can load your OMs on the WL from the start, and get some bonus activations with Van Nessing. B
Wolves of Badru (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=17432) - Morgoloth gives them a bonding hero that suits them well, but they still cost a lot for how long they stay alive. B-
Zaeus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37535) - A potent if expensive hero in his own right, Zaeus brings the Gorrilinators into play. B
Zettian Guards (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8406) - A nice addition to Deathcommander armies if you lack the points for other HSCB options. B
Zettian Infantry (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39081) - They're a ranged bonding squad that can find room in the startzone for Deathreavers; that makes up for poor move/range and expensive, brittle heroes. B+
Zogross Hardscale (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1472772) - A tough and effective Lizard King, but doesn't bring quite as much to the table as the big dragons. B
Zombie Hulk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35963) - They've got some cool tricks, but outside of a certain set of matchups, they're usually not as helpful as another squad of zombies. B

flameslayer93

September 24th, 2011, 05:55 PM

I like how these power rankings are similar to the ones on my blog. Although I haven't done the blog for thee last 3 units, I'm sure they would be similar.

I'm thinking the Gnids are getting a little too much credit, as guys like Q10 or Q9 will laugh at them, and now even the elf wizards with Haduc will be even more of a threat to them. I'm not seeing how they are a B+ unit yet, sorry :?

dalu

September 24th, 2011, 06:02 PM

Thanks dok, awesome work.

When people will have learned to use them well, I think the Blade Dancers will go closer to the HSB.

On the other hand, I am still convinced that the need for a double line of sight when using Directed Fire (both Omegacron and the attacking figure must have LOS) makes Omegacron weaker that he seems.

I have added the rankings for Van Nessing and Kira in their book.

killercactus

September 24th, 2011, 08:39 PM

dok

September 25th, 2011, 12:08 PM

*Theoryscape Alert!* (hey - it's what I do, right?)

I just don't know about the Resistance fighters at B. Now, I haven't played a single game with them, but I just look at a 3-figure, 2 attack ranged squad and can't help feeling the Tagawa Samurai Archers all over them. I know they're mobile and they can get around screens, but anything they're shooting at that's behind a screen can probably shrug off 2 attack without much trouble anyway, and mobility is only so good in this game it seems (just ask the Gorillinators).I'll admit that the choice was B versus B- with them, for sure. However, the TSAs are at B-, and I'm comfortable asserting that the M-43's special powers are worth one notch more than counterstrike. Priority Targeting means that getting attacks with height advantage is much easier than it is otherwise. And Guerrilla Tactics is more than just "mobility" - it's zombie-style mobility that allows you to move figures from the back while attacking with figures at the front.

That said, consider them on the watch list.

capsocrates

September 25th, 2011, 11:26 PM

Their mobility is incredibly useful. EDIT: You can fire on a target, then move other figures up to engage your opponent, or bring up new figures to replace figures that will be destroyed or engaged in the next turn. Of course, the possibilities go beyond that, but they're a very mobile squad.

Filthy the Clown

September 27th, 2011, 02:39 PM

Does Van Nessing justify an increase of the Werewolf Lord to a rank of B? Drafting both of these heroes is a 245 point investment (with decent stats, if not limited attacks), but it bestows a 50% chance of your WL OM's getting a free turn with Van Nessing. Of course, the flip side is that your WL-wielding opponent could also get a turn with Van Nessing, but having 2 opponents with Werewolves seems a bit rare in the competitive scene.

Now, if your opponent also has a WL and Van Nessing, at least you don't have to worry about her taking a free turn with your VN. :)

dok

September 27th, 2011, 02:47 PM

Does Van Nessing justify an increase of the Werewolf Lord to a rank of B? Drafting both of these heroes is a 245 point investment (with decent stats, if not limited attacks), but it bestows a 50% chance of your WL OM's getting a free turn with Van Nessing.I considered this recently, and almost made the change. The only thing stopping me is that the WL already has a bonding squad. But given that I like Van Nessing more than the WoB, most of the time, it's easy to argue that the 50% Van Nessing activation is more handy than the 100% WoB activation, when you consider the point investment needed. Still, you usually want one OM directly on VN anyway for Divine Mission, so on average you're only getting one extra VN activation per round, even if you put two numbered OMs on WLs.

Like I said, I was very close on this - I was closer to bumping the WL than I was to bumping Kyntela or Ulginesh or Arkmer, FWIW. I'm still open to bumping the WL, but I'd like to see some non-theoryscape results.

Of course, the flip side is that your WL-wielding opponent could also get a turn with Van Nessing, but having 2 opponents with Werewolves seems a bit rare in the competitive scene.

Now, if your opponent also has a WL and Van Nessing, at least you don't have to worry about her taking a free turn with your VN. :)Ah, interesting point; it's a variant of the Marcu versus Marcu thing.

capsocrates

September 27th, 2011, 03:23 PM

I don't see how VN makes any noticeable change to WL's value. Werewolf Lord's bonding is instead of taking a turn with WL, isn't it? So having a marker on werewolf doesn't add any extra turns--just an almost negligible amount of flexibility.

EDIT: I stand corrected.

killercactus

September 27th, 2011, 03:44 PM

capsocrates

September 27th, 2011, 04:00 PM

Ah. I see. I guess I never noticed because WL has always been killed before he got any use in our games.

I still agree with the party that says that his rating is unchanged.

dok

October 13th, 2011, 05:03 PM

Zogross and the Greenscales had a strong showing in Maryland, going 5-0 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1491520#post1491520). However, they didn't face the sorts of armies (ranged commons or disengaging melee, most obviously) that would give that army trouble. So, it's definitely on the watch list to move up, but I'd like to see more results.

If anyone else has results from the C3V/SoV figures in a competitive setting, I'd like to see them. The only other use I'm familiar with is the Zombie Hulks that were used in the Michigan Monster Mash event, but they were played as pseudo-commons with full bonding, so I can't really count those results.

GromBloodboy

October 15th, 2011, 10:16 PM

Sorry.........................

Anyways, I have played the Hulks a couple more time. They may not have great survivability, and their Rise Again power may not work well when large/huge figures don't come into play. But I don't think that they deserve their rank because they are not as worth as much as another squad of zombies. They can deal the damage necessary to bring down heroes that zombies can't bring down with out losing the height that is difficult for them to get in the first place. Their bonding does have its setback, but a clever player can usually play intelligently enough to make it so that you don't get screwed. They may be B+ worthy, although some more playing is necessary to make sure that is certain. They fill a different niche than the ZoM, one that complements the ZoM's playstyle.

quozl

October 20th, 2011, 06:13 PM

If anyone else has results from the C3V/SoV figures in a competitive setting, I'd like to see them. The only other use I'm familiar with is the Zombie Hulks that were used in the Michigan Monster Mash event, but they were played as pseudo-commons with full bonding, so I can't really count those results.

Did anyone play this last weekend for NHSD?

Sir Dendrik

October 20th, 2011, 06:55 PM

We played a bunch of C3V stuff at our last game day. It was supposed to be a tournament but it devolved into a regular game day.

I played the following army:

Omegacron 180
3x Repulsors 300
Cyprien 450
Sonya 495

Not enough games/competitive enough of an atmosphere to really say anything, but Omegacron with a mobile screen is pretty decent. Nothing to throw a parade over, but it's a solid B, maybe B+ if played well.

Other people played Omegacron with 1 squad of snipers and a mess of repulsors. There was decent success with that. The player with that army said they really liked having only 1 squad of Snipers, as he thought more would be overkill when you've got a screen.

Varkaans also did well, but not overly. They're good against melee but expensive against range. And range is good against melee and even with range, so you I don't know how competitive the Varkaans can be.

If I'd like to see any of the C3V units really explored competitively, it's definitely Omegacron. He has the most potential.

Toogwick_tuk

November 6th, 2011, 03:27 PM

Yesterday I went to the Portland NHDS and brought the 4x mariedians and 2x of each wyrmling plus otonashi. Another guy brought omegacron with 2x snipers 3x repulsors and filler. It was a doubled edged sword format so a lot of the units were B rated with a little bit of A units. I went 5-2 and beat my army twice and lost to it twice. The omegacron army did well I think but I didn't watch his games that much. I think the mariedians are good were they are and are a solid B unit.

TnT2

November 17th, 2011, 12:07 AM

Nice list. I definitely have to put myself in the group that hasn't figured out how to use the Gnids.

Their greatest flexibility comes with the Marro Hive in play - and that isn't that often.

Without the Hive, they are simply a 4-squad two-attack melee unit. I'd rather spend the 50 points on another Divider or Drone squad.

(I wonder what the probability of kills is for four attacks of two dice vs three attacks of three)

As well, given that you have to have a successful attack AND then kill one of them to make cling work (which means you take engagement away), I just don't see them as a B+ unit.

In fact, I'd rank 'em a C

ZBeeblebrox

November 17th, 2011, 10:45 AM

Trust me, the Gnids are definately a "B" unit. You have to swarm with them even without the hive, they get thier points worth...maybe not with kills per se...but making that much easier to for the rest of the Army to kill figures that have been *infected*.
Yes you may lose the engagement when you cling, but your oppnent loses Defense and Movement...and the loss of both makes the Gnids very formidable in every game I've played with them.

dok

December 21st, 2011, 10:01 PM

Does Van Nessing justify an increase of the Werewolf Lord to a rank of B? Drafting both of these heroes is a 245 point investment (with decent stats, if not limited attacks), but it bestows a 50% chance of your WL OM's getting a free turn with Van Nessing. Of course, the flip side is that your WL-wielding opponent could also get a turn with Van Nessing, but having 2 opponents with Werewolves seems a bit rare in the competitive scene. KC's results (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1523255#post1523255) clinched it; I bumped the WL to a B. I even considered B+ but B still feels right for now. (If you can beat Robber's 10th, I'll take it to B+. ;))

I've also added the Zettian Infantry, although the book probably won't go up until we have the new card from the C3V art department. I was pretty aggressive in their initial placement - I put them at B+ and bumped their bonding heroes to B. I think most of the SoV judges would have gone a notch or two lower on both counts. We'll see how they do when they get played at events.

dok

February 1st, 2012, 05:53 PM

Tyrian added. :up:

infectedsloth

February 12th, 2012, 01:08 AM

Of the official figures I think Cyprien value has dropped by a pretty good amount in the era of fan scape. With both the Zettian Infantry and Omegacron allowing more viable soulborg army cores it makes it that much harder for me to take Cyprien to a tournament. If you are going to a tournament that allows C3V-SoV there is a heightened chance of facing one of those builds, because people will obviously want to try out the new units. I also assume Vulcanmech Incendiborgs are soulborgs which will also hurt Cyprien worth. I'm not sure if all that justify a drop in grade, I'm just saying that I would not even think of bringing Cyprien to a tournament were C3V and SoV are allowed, just to risky. In reality time will only tell how the new units affect the meta game and it's affect on official figures.

Toogwick_tuk

April 1st, 2012, 12:16 PM

I played a team drafting tournament yesterday and had a good experience just using Nicholas by himself as an assassin. I made several mistakes with him in one of the two games I played. Instead of attacking Q9 I attacked a 2 life Marro Hive which could have been taken out by my teammate. Eventually Nicholas died and my mezzodemons got killed by Q9.

In my other game he took out a ton of Aubrien Archers and a 3 wyrmlings earning his points easily. At the end of the game he was still at full life. He is definitely worth his points just by himself without the Thralls.

faure

April 2nd, 2012, 08:13 PM

Zettian Infantry ... I put them at B+ and bumped their bonding heroes to B. I think most of the SoV judges would have gone a notch or two lower on both counts.

I tried out Zettian Infantry along with DW8K, DW9K, and Warden this weekend vs. a dwarf/M-43 army. While the ZI definitely give a boost to the DW heroes, I found the M-43 thinned their ranks out enough while the Axegrinders advanced to knock out the DW's. I'd definitely rank the M-43 above the ZI.

capsocrates

May 10th, 2012, 02:44 PM

Shouldn't this be stickied?

personwholives

May 10th, 2012, 06:17 PM

Shouldn't this be stickied?
It appears that it is.

ZBeeblebrox

May 10th, 2012, 07:19 PM

Shouldn't this be stickied?
It appears that it is.

because I stickied it after caps mentioned it ;)

personwholives

May 11th, 2012, 11:27 AM

Shouldn't this be stickied?
It appears that it is.

because I stickied it after caps mentioned it ;)
I thought it was before. I could be crazy, though.

Arch-vile

June 27th, 2012, 11:06 PM

Now that wave 15 is all out, the next thing to look forward to is dok's updates of the power rankings. Elaria, the Deathstrike, Myrddin, and Arashara have the most metagame-altering I think.

The Deathstrike boosts Nick and the Preybloods, while the other 3 help underused figures. The Skull Demon has potential to boost the Death Knights a grade or 2 though...

Rich10

June 28th, 2012, 09:09 AM

This weekend, our gaming group played some games with some of the Wave 15 figures. The Havech Eradicators were the biggest surprise. They are very effective as a ranged squad. Although they have a 30% chance of blowing up, with a ranged attack of 4, they typically kill what they are aiming at. When they didn't destroy themselves, they were hard to kill. They destroyed squads of Microcorp and quickly took out Laglor without a problem. They were even effective against KMA because they could close the distance quickly (and I couldn't roll a single defense die in 9 attempts). Still, they did very well and I would give them a B+ to A-.

Nicholas Esenwein just doesn't have Cyprien's abilities. In a battle against the elder Esenwein, he went down quickly. I'd drop him to a B-. I would give the Deathstrike Thralls a B- to C+ because while the possibility of attacking with 18 is appealing, it is hard to realize.

The Skeletons of Annellintia played as slower melee squads like zombies or RL. They almost need to be the primary attacking force because you need to keep your "reanimator" alive (or on the board as they are primarily undead). So, they tended to get killed and struggled to rejoin the battle. Still, they were fun to play and probably played at a B or B- level.

Overall, great job on these figures! They were fun to play and well balanced.

capsocrates

June 28th, 2012, 10:02 AM

OrcElfArmyOne

June 29th, 2012, 08:57 AM

Honestly, I don't think Tyrian even deserves a B-. I think he is too fragile with 2 defense and 4 life for 110 points. I think a C+ is right for him.

Arch-vile

June 29th, 2012, 10:01 AM

Tyrian makes a good assassin figure, but even with that I would usually prefer Zetacron for that role. Tyrian has a bit more firepower than Zeta usually though, and taking out the opponent's bonding hero can win you the game. That said, he still is very tough to use correctly (and survive longer than a couple turns). I think on the edge between B- and C+ is right.

1Mmirg

June 29th, 2012, 11:32 AM

Honestly, I don't think Tyrian even deserves a B-. I think he is too fragile with 2 defense and 4 life for 110 points. I think a C+ is right for him.

He can play awfully well as a pseudo-Airborne Elite unit. Sure, he isn't as good as they are, but he's not too far below them in terms of effectiveness. (He also doubles nicely as a clean-up unit--flying and shooting in the endgame, he can again be quite effective.)

I agree he isn't the best unit there ever was, but he has his uses.

kolakoski

July 11th, 2012, 03:30 PM

Now that wave 15 is all out, the next thing to look forward to is . . . updates of the power rankings. Elaria, . . . Myrddin, and Arashara have the most metagame-altering I think.

Well met!

So many of my favorite units are affected, especially by Myrddin, plus many more! See below for a sampling (culled from the Power Rankings):

A
Isamu (10)

A-
Atlaga (90)
Cyprien Esenwein (150)
Me-Burq-Sa (50)
Mogrimm Forgehammer (120)
Roman Legionnaires (50*)

B+
Brave Arrow (50)
Darrak Ambershard (60)
Ne-Gok-Sa (90)
Sacred Band (50*)
Sonya Esenwein (45)

B
Arkmer (50)
Ana Karithon (100)
Emirroon (80)
Kelda the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Microcorp Agents (100*)
Morsbane (100)
Nakita Agents (120)

B-
Estivara (80)
Gorillinators (90*)
Mind Flayer Mastermind (100+)
Rhogar Dragonspine (110)
Sonlen (160)
Su-Bak-Na (160)

C+
Deepwyrm Drow (70*)

C
Iskra Esenwein (50)
Kee-Mo-Shi (130)
Khosumet the Darklord (75)
Parmenio (90)
Rechets of Bogdan (50)
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior (80)

C-
Dünd (110)
Runa (120)
Sudema (140)

D
Deadeye Dan (60)
Deathwalker 7000 (100)

The CEE

July 20th, 2012, 09:28 PM

I thought I'd weigh in with what I feel would be appropriate ratings for some of the Wave 15 units. While I have play experience with a few of these units, for some of them I am merely theoryscaping. I look forward to seeing the opinions of more knowledgeable 'Scapers.

B+
Vulcanmech Incendiborgs

B
Havech Eradicators
Skeletons of Annellintia
Skull Demon
Elaria the Pale

B-
Ulfrid Hornwrangler
Myrddin
Martial La Hire

C+
Deathstrike Thrall
Arashara Goshiri

MegaSilver

July 20th, 2012, 09:35 PM

Arashara should be at least B, if not B+. She is GREAT at distrupting opponent's placement of figures, such as Raelin, and putting yours in a good place.

Everything else is fairly close; may just need to be moved up or down a level, I'm not sure.

ZBeeblebrox

July 20th, 2012, 09:41 PM

Ulfrid is definitely higher...he's like an assassin sometimes...at least a B+ IMHO

Arch-vile

July 20th, 2012, 09:46 PM

Arashara should be at least B, if not B+. She is GREAT at distrupting opponent's placement of figures, such as Raelin, and putting yours in a good place.

I echo this. Arashara can kill Raelin in a turn by surrounding her with squaddies while placing your Raelin on her perch. Plus all the other shifts she can do. The d20 can be her Achilles Heel, but she has pretty good odds of pulling off a few key shifting sands.

I think Myrrdin is more a B as well, though no higher. D20 boosts are hard to nail down a real value to. I haven't played any other figure enough to guess ranking yet.

1Mmirg

July 21st, 2012, 12:47 PM

A few notes on some of those:

I played Arashara quite a bit and she is solid, but she only sporadically really shifts a battle. I'd put her at B.

Ulfrid can be a total beast. I'd say A-, personally.

Havech Eradicators are crazy solid if you use them mostly as melee, with only important ranged attacks. I'd say B+ for them.

infectedsloth

July 24th, 2012, 07:46 PM

Just for fun I'll throw my hat into the ring as to how I feel about the new figures power rankings.

A-
Vulcanmech Incendiborgs: They don't have any glaring weakness, although 4 move is slow there 10 threat range is passable for a range squad. with there special attack they can be successful in the squad heavy meta game. Redundant allows them to hold on to height or impotent chock points for the rest of your army.

B+
Skeletons of Annellintia: There survivability with Reanimation and there mobility with Undead Legion means they have a shoot versus almost anyone, there reliance on there cheerleader and there weak stats means they could fall to armies a lot weaker then themselves.

Ulfrid Hornwrangler: Good survivability and the potentially to dish out a lot of damage in one turn is the trade mark of the dwarfs heroes and Ulfrid is no exception. I feel he is a little weaker then the other dwarfs in axegrinders builds but being able to also fit into 4th mass builds earns him is rank

Arashara Goshiri: If you allow your opponent to get through 16 or sometimes 20 Romans or Greeks to attack her then your playing them wrong, although she still fears assassin figures like Phantom Knights or Airborne Elites. Her value is lowered if your not playing with glyphs, but a 50 50 shoot each turn of potentially turning any game around can't be undervalued, her 4 attack comes in handy more then one might think.

B
Havech Eradicators: They can deal a lot of damage very fast, to the opponent or yourself. If you have to play them prominently as a melee squad then your basically playing with the horned skulls but for 15 more points, and those occasionally ranged attacks can backfire to often for them to be ranked higher. Though They really can shine in the hands of skilled player who know how to use them.

Myrddin: the only figure that I have not played multiple games with so his rank is more theory scapeing the anything. With his low defense and potentially high variance self wounding special power he can perform poorly quite easily, his solid special attack and game changing power counter balance that earning him a average B.

Martial La Hire: A nice stand alone hero that will usually kill around his points unless the dice are particularly hot or cold.

B-
Deathstrike Thrall: They will rarely kill there points, but they do allow the Preyboods to kill there points worth and beyond more often. Versus hero heavy armies they can be lethal, it's a shame that the meta game is squad heavy.

Skull Demon: Helps push the Deathknights closer to competitiveness, they still are fairly fragile especially with the Deathknights having a difficult time screening for them like other higher men melee squads can do for there Cheerleader.

C+
Command Courier: Although fun in causal games, a large point investment for order marker flexibility with a vulnerability to special attacks does not cut it for me.

Elaria the Pale: Another fun figure in casual games that helps out some underused figures, her susceptibility to heroes and lack of multiple attacks per order maker hurts her more then her other powers help her.

OrcElfArmyOne

July 25th, 2012, 09:26 AM

Sir Dendrik

July 25th, 2012, 06:08 PM

Havech Eradicators rock! At Islandscape July 21st, Gurei-Ornery, a Maryland player, won it all with Havech Eradicators x3, Tulbakra, and Marro Warriors, going 5-0, with a point total of over 1300! After this showing, they should be either an A- or B+. And they also give Tulbakra a huge boost, because you want to use them as meele whenever possible.

*cough* It was reverse the whip format *cough* :twisted:

They're perfect for reverse the whip because players who haphazardly shoot from range will find this strategy to be their undoing.

dok

July 25th, 2012, 07:02 PM

Great post, infectedsloth.

I have a preliminary draft of updated rankings done, but if there any other testers who want to chime in, please do so.

kolakoski

July 25th, 2012, 11:46 PM

Well met!

Based on the very little experience playing, and a bit more considering during army building, my impressions (bold below):

Just for fun I'll throw my hat into the ring as to how I feel about the new figures power rankings.

A-
Vulcanmech Incendiborgs: They don't have any glaring weakness, although 4 move is slow there 10 threat range is passable for a range squad. with there special attack they can be successful in the squad heavy meta game. Redundant allows them to hold on to height or impotent chock points for the rest of your army.

Redundant Systems seems far better than 4 life, and the same mechanic under different names should lead to a unique squad renaissance.

B+
Skeletons of Annellintia: There survivability with Reanimation and there mobility with Undead Legion means they have a shoot versus almost anyone, there reliance on there cheerleader and there weak stats means they could fall to armies a lot weaker then themselves.

I agree with the guy who said you need a lot of them. Just don't take them if you're using cumulative partial scoring.

Ulfrid Hornwrangler: Good survivability and the potentially to dish out a lot of damage in one turn is the trade mark of the dwarfs heroes and Ulfrid is no exception. I feel he is a little weaker then the other dwarfs in axegrinders builds but being able to also fit into 4th mass builds earns him is rank

If he were a Warlord, he'd be perfect.

Arashara Goshiri: If you allow your opponent to get through 16 or sometimes 20 Romans or Greeks to attack her then your playing them wrong, although she still fears assassin figures like Phantom Knights or Airborne Elites. Her value is lowered if your not playing with glyphs, but a 50 50 shoot each turn of potentially turning any game around can't be undervalued, her 4 attack comes in handy more then one might think.

The "simple, ordinary things" you do do tactically are at risk of being ignored while trying to set her up to shine. I will play her again, as the Romans are faves, but I suspect she is most comparable to a unit such as Kee-Mo-Shi or Sudema.

B
Havech Eradicators: They can deal a lot of damage very fast, to the opponent or yourself. If you have to play them prominently as a melee squad then your basically playing with the horned skulls but for 15 more points, and those occasionally ranged attacks can backfire to often for them to be ranked higher. Though They really can shine in the hands of skilled player who know how to use them.

You're paying the extra points (over Brutes) for the opportunity to attack at range while charging into melee, while not costing 140+ due to the roughly 30% chance of a unit dying while doing so.

Myrddin: the only figure that I have not played multiple games with so his rank is more theory scapeing the anything. With his low defense and potentially high variance self wounding special power he can perform poorly quite easily, his solid special attack and game changing power counter balance that earning him a average B.

Comparable to Heirloom. Better explosion attack and, paired with Kee-Mo-Shi or Runa, should have plenty of opportunities to trade wounds for deaths/Mindshackles/Moon Frenzys/Enslaves . . .

Martial La Hire: A nice stand alone hero that will usually kill around his points unless the dice are particularly hot or cold.

He scares me as is, but I could see giving him Finn's Spirit and/or pairing him with Taelord.

B-
Deathstrike Thrall: They will rarely kill there points, but they do allow the Preyboods to kill there points worth and beyond more often. Versus hero heavy armies they can be lethal, it's a shame that the meta game is squad heavy.

If I knew my opponent was fielding a Hydra . . .

Skull Demon: Helps push the Deathknights closer to competitiveness, they still are fairly fragile especially with the Deathknights having a difficult time screening for them like other higher men melee squads can do for there Cheerleader.

I'd use 1 or 2 of these guys with the Brutes to deal with Minions/Sentinals and unique squads.

C+
Command Courier: Although fun in causal games, a large point investment for order marker flexibility with a vulnerability to special attacks dose not cut it for me.

I didn't get these guys either.

Elaria the Pale: Another fun figure in casual games that helps out some underused figures, her susceptibility to heros and lack of multiple attacks per order maker hurts her more then her other powers help her.

Only if you can't afford Myrddin.

capsocrates

July 26th, 2012, 12:33 AM

Based on my experiences in play testing I would rate them as following:

Martial La Hire: solid B. Probably the best cleanup melee figure in the game for his points, but no bonding or other synergy to speak of.

Myrrdin: a C+/B- in tournament play, where his abilities may be difficult to use consistently from game to game.

Havech Eradicators: a B or B+ in tournament play. They have the potential to fare much better in casual play, where one game with great luck is all they need.

Vulcanmech Incendiborgs: B+ or A-. They're slow, so it can be difficult for them to get height, but when they do it's a sight to behold. Paired with Raelin and a good screen, they could be highly effective. Thankfully, they're no Q9.

Command Courier: C+/B-. These guys give a bump to some great figures that rarely see tournament play, and they can last a surprisingly long time in the end game with a bit of luck. Unfortunately, OM flexibility is not the most valuable asset in most tournament-worthy armies.

Skull Demon: C+/B-. The Skull Demons make the Death Knights into a more competitive build against melee armies, but unfortunately they still have no answer for the range that dominates the tournament scene.

OrcElfArmyOne

July 26th, 2012, 08:22 AM

OrcElfArmyOne

July 26th, 2012, 08:28 AM

I will now post the rankings that I feel are fair:
A-
Vulcanmech Incendiborgs
B+
Havech Eradicators
Ulfrid Hornwrangler
Skeletons of something starting with A
B
Myrdin
Arashara Goshiri
B-
Martial La Hire
Deathstrike Thrall
Skull Demon
C+
Command Courrier
Elaria the Pale

Fi Skirata

August 26th, 2012, 02:34 PM

Hey Dok, any idea when the power rankings for the newest wave will be ready?

dok

September 1st, 2012, 05:30 PM

Finally updating... sorry for the delay.

Arashara Goshiri: A ton of points to sink into such a frail figure, but if you keep her safe, Shifting Sands can be positively game-changing. B+

Command Courier: Very nice filler for a Vydar army, providing a meat shield, Order Marker flexibility, and a decent cleanup force. B

Deathstrike Thrall: Their powerful self-sacrifice attack synergizes nicely with Nicky and the Preybloods. But it does, you know, kill them. C+

Elaria the Pale: Even if her cheerleading abilities are tricky to use, she is tough to take down in cleanup. B+

Havech Eradicators: Great stats justify the price. Generally, you're better off taking a melee attack if you can find one, but the risky ranged attack gives you valuable tactical flexibility. B+

Martial La Hire: Strong stats for a low price, but tough to get into position before endgame. B

Myrddin: Effective either as a special attacker with the 4th, or as a booster for high-leverage d20 powers. B

Priscus: the adjacency requirement prevents him from being truly effective as a low-cost replacement for Spartacus, but he remains a solid gladiator hero that brings a much-needed special attack. B

Skeletons of Annellintia: Devastating with a hot d20, but can require subtle play to take advantage of the animation mechanic. B+

Skull Demons: Obnoxiously hard to kill for common squads. Effective either as a standalone hero or as a booster for the Death Knights, who can really use the extra attack. B+.

Ulfrid Hornwrangler: A strong frontline hero with a powerful special attack that can be used to assassinate a key hero or clear a key space. And even if it backfires, at least your Axegrinders are fast. A-

Vulcanmech Incendiborgs: If they can work their way to high ground before their markers are gone, they will often dominate the game. A-

I guess the only ones where I'm really breaking from the consensus are the Command Courier and the Skull Demon. The CC is hardly gamebreaking, but a defensive power, and free extra moves, is a nice little package. Throwing a few couriers in with Skahen makes for lots of movement synergy. And the Skull Demon is just really nice at shoring up the front line in a Valkrill army.

Arch-vile

September 1st, 2012, 11:25 PM

Great job Dok! FYI, Vulcanmech Incendiborgs are spelled wrong in the master list.

Once again, an incredibly balanced wave. It is funny the most powerful C3V card (by rank) is a Unique Squad. Underpowered no more!

flameslayer93

September 1st, 2012, 11:43 PM

dok

September 2nd, 2012, 12:18 AM

Although I haven't used her, I'm not quite sure Arashara deserves a B+, much less any B grade at all. She really doesn't seem like she can do enough to earn her points. If she were ranged, then I might change my tune, but as is all you can do with her turn is chance a Shifting Sands roll and a melee attack of 4. Her being pretty frail also means that using her attack might be an effective way of blowing two-fifths of a standard army. I'm not saying that she's a waste of points (I'm sure than in a Roman build, she'll be used to get your soldiers turtling very easily even after some wounds have been put on them), but I would think that more soldiers would be better. Or at least more durable Warlords. :|
Romans (and Sacred Band) are quite cheap, so an expensive bonding hero is feasible for them at regular point totals.

Shifting Sands is an incredibly versatile power. You can move Raelin or other non-bonding cheerleaders around without wasting OMs by sand shifting them with Arashara or with squad figures. You can assassinate opposing cheerleaders or hoeroes by yanking them into the middle of a pack of Romans/Greeks. You can steal glyphs from opponents with ease. You can toss opposing figures on lava fields on turn 3. You can switch opposing figures to low ground, a-la Warforged. The list goes on.

And yes, it sucks when your 200 point figure dies quickly, which can happen. That's why she's not in the "A" range.

flameslayer93

September 2nd, 2012, 12:50 AM

Although I haven't used her, I'm not quite sure Arashara deserves a B+, much less any B grade at all. She really doesn't seem like she can do enough to earn her points. If she were ranged, then I might change my tune, but as is all you can do with her turn is chance a Shifting Sands roll and a melee attack of 4. Her being pretty frail also means that using her attack might be an effective way of blowing two-fifths of a standard army. I'm not saying that she's a waste of points (I'm sure than in a Roman build, she'll be used to get your soldiers turtling very easily even after some wounds have been put on them), but I would think that more soldiers would be better. Or at least more durable Warlords. :|
Romans (and Sacred Band) are quite cheap, so an expensive bonding hero is feasible for them at regular point totals.

Shifting Sands is an incredibly versatile power. You can move Raelin or other non-bonding cheerleaders around without wasting OMs by sand shifting them with Arashara or with squad figures. You can assassinate opposing cheerleaders or heroes by yanking them into the middle of a pack of Romans/Greeks. You can steal glyphs from opponents with ease. You can toss opposing figures on lava fields on turn 3. You can switch opposing figures to low ground, a-la Warforged. The list goes on.

And yes, it sucks when your 200 point figure dies quickly, which can happen. That's why she's not in the "A" range.

But all of that is still assuming that she gets her roll. Yes, it might be easy, but nobody claims how overly strong the NotNW are. If she fails her roll, she likely puts herself in the very thick of the battle (a range of 4 for 2 separate figures isn't very long and might not be easy to get), which is a very easy way of losing her. You get a really cool power, but that power is atrociously dangerous to use.

Versatility doesn't mean great, just ask Sonlen. ;)

dok

September 2nd, 2012, 01:01 AM

How good would Sonlen be if he bonded with Romans?

flameslayer93

September 2nd, 2012, 01:07 AM

boromir96

September 2nd, 2012, 08:04 AM

How good would Sonlen be if he bonded with Romans?

Considering he's ranged, I'd think he'd be a better with them than Ara. Cheaper too. ;)

I'm not trying to make a case for any unit here, I'm just trying to say that Arashara probably isn't worth the points in a tournament setting, where more Romans/Greeks would be much more effective. Arashara is just way too casual, and maybe a bit too weak on the survivable side to be a B. I could see her being at a C range though.

Ya know, you can only theoryscape so much..... Why don't you give her a try?

I think you might just change your mind..... :p

Gurei-Ornery

September 2nd, 2012, 09:01 AM

OrcElfArmyOne

September 2nd, 2012, 09:15 AM

Arch-vile

September 2nd, 2012, 10:01 AM

She is swingy, but when she swings your way it is impressive. I have only used her 3 times and 2 of 3 she was the difference. I do agree she will unlikely be a tournament mainstay do to her points.

She can be devastating when she hits her rolls. If she doesn't hit her Shifting Sands rolls, that's why you have a lot of cheap Greeks/Romans to act as a screen. Since Arashara moves before her squad, she can be surrounded by Greeks/Romans after her turn to protect her.

It is the unexpectedness and incredible versatality that gives Arashara her strength. Glyphs aren't safe, Raelin isn't safe, Cyprien isn't safe, she can move figures from the back to the front, the list goes on. Definitely play her with Raelin if the point totals allow, having Raelin really helps Arashara's survivability and you never need to place an order marker on Raelin to get her in position.

awesomeunleashed

September 2nd, 2012, 10:17 AM

I'll be another to say that Arashara, while swingy, should be a B+. While the roll for SS is high enough that it might never work, it's also low enough to make your opponent try hard to avoid it, even if the alternative is a slightly worse position.

In one game I played, she made one SS roll to move her opponent's Raelin towards her just a few spaces, failed an attack roll, then died. Yet that one move was just enough to give the rest of her army the win, because the other army was so much weaker without Raelin.

I agree with those CC and Demon rankings, dok. I've seen both in action, and know that they can win you games.

dok

September 2nd, 2012, 11:11 AM

I think Iskra deserves a boost. For only 50 points, she is a good option with skeletons. 4x skeletons, Iskra, Isamu, and Marcu is good for 500. 4x skeletons is good, and Iskra reborns an average of 15.5 skeletons, or almost the same amount you started with!I think you're right. I've always felt that Iskra was a little bit underrated anyway. The Rechets are bad, but Iskra herself is a decent cleanup figure.

How good would Sonlen be if he bonded with Romans?

Considering he's ranged, I'd think he'd be a better with them than Ara. Cheaper too. :wink:He might be better, but the point is that he would be outstanding. Pointing out that Sonlen's versatility doesn't make him excellent misses the mark for a comparison with Arashara. Arashara's powers are versatile and potentially game-changing, but without bonding, she would be extremely overpriced.

I'm not trying to make a case for any unit here, I'm just trying to say that Arashara probably isn't worth the points in a tournament setting, where more Romans/Greeks would be much more effective. Arashara is just way too casual, and maybe a bit too weak on the survivable side to be a B. I could see her being at a C range though.

Ya know, you can only theoryscape so much..... Why don't you give her a try?

I think you might just change your mind..... :razz:Yeah, pretty much. I understand the skepticism. I would argue that this figure has something much more generally useful than a ranged attack. Plenty of playtesters started their tests with a lot of skepticism about the price, but then found themselves defeating established effective armies using Arashara and the Greeks/Romans.

awesomeunleashed

September 5th, 2012, 11:18 PM

En masse, the Eradicators can be very effective. I wouldn't be suprised if more tourney results showed that they needed to be moved up to A-.

dok

September 5th, 2012, 11:41 PM

En masse, the Eradicators can be very effective. I wouldn't be suprised if more tourney results showed that they needed to be moved up to A-.Yeah, they're definitely on my radar.

EDIT: I moved Iskra up from C to B-.

Foudzing

September 8th, 2012, 01:04 PM

First of all, great work!

Some question/propositions:
.Don't the Zettians Guards must go a bit down, since there is ZI now?
.Arashara is too high to me, she's difficult to play and you're no sure she'll be effective even if you play it right because you lose your "turn" if the power fails.
.Deathstrike Thrall is better than Preyblood Thrall.
.Capt John Varan seems a bit high too, I never saw someone use it effectively.
. Horned Skulls Brutes still B+? They rocks at every tournament we run, they really deserve A-.
. Marro Gnids are a bit high to me too.

Everything else is good, great job again!

dok

September 8th, 2012, 01:52 PM

First of all, great work!

Don't the Zettians Guards must go a bit down, since there is ZI now?Not really. There were always better options available for the points than the Zettian Guards, and that's no more true now than it was before. The ranking of the Zettian Guards reflects the power of the best armies that the Zettian Guards can be in, and that is unchanged.

Arashara is too high to me, she's difficult to play and you're no sure she'll be effective even if you play it right because you lose your "turn" if the power fails.She is a bit tricky to play well, but not extremely hard. It does take some practice.

Obviously, there's lots of disagreement on Arashara's rank, and against some opposition she will look extremely overpriced. But IMO the B+ accurately reflects how dominant her armies can be against a fairly wide range of opposing armies on the right maps.

Deathstrike Thrall is better than Preyblood Thrall.I agree. However, if anything, I might have the Preybloods a bit high. I am really not very impressed with the Thralls. They've been used a fair amount in the online events, and I haven't seen them win against anything decent.

Capt John Varan seems a bit high too, I never saw someone use it effectively.Neither have I, to be honest, but I think his potential with a well-timed Airborne Elite drop is pretty phenomenal.

Horned Skulls Brutes still B+? They rocks at every tournament we run, they really deserve A-.Interesting. Although I'm a fan of them in theory, I've yet to see them used effectively (and I've tried). I've been toying with raising the cutters, but not the HSBs. Could you link me to some tournament results where they did well?

Marro Gnids are a bit high to me too.I tend to agree; they feel a bit more like a B to me. That said, they are cheap and fast. A lot of the testers were high on them when the wave came out, and I kicked them up a notch over where my instincts put them. Do we have any real-world results with them? I'm not sure I've heard of anyone using the gnids.

Foudzing

September 8th, 2012, 04:36 PM

Horned Skulls Brutes still B+? They rocks at every tournament we run, they really deserve A-.Interesting. Although I'm a fan of them in theory, I've yet to see them used effectively (and I've tried). I've been toying with raising the cutters, but not the HSBs. Could you link me to some tournament results where they did well?

Of course!

http://forum.heroscape.free.fr/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3675

This is the summer 2011 event, as the format is a bit tricky (you have to use 3 times an army and 3times another to play a total of 6 games) I'll resume the HSB result.

Da (the winner of the tournament which is only 12 or 13 years old) went 3-0 with:
Raelin 80
Major Q10 150
4x HSB 300

With this army he wins:
vs 3x Knights+Gilbert+Eltahale on incedium lead by another experimented young player (who also won a tournament) (182points left)
vs 5xDCoT+Raelin+Nerak+Ogre Pulverizer on ice blossom vs a very experimented adult player (230 left, not even close)
vs TKN+2xNabgrubs+3xPKs+MW on ticalla vs a young quite experimented player (like 16 years old) (135points left)

It's kinda impressive.

The second tournament:
http://forum.heroscape.free.fr/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4033

This is last summer event I personnally went with the HSB with a quite competitive build I admitt:
Raelin
3xRats
3xHSB
Krav-Maga

I went 2-1 with this not bad even if I expected a 3-0 :P

Large win vs Monks+Master woo+Rae
Close win vs Vulchanmeg+Nakitas agents+FGoM+Raelin against the player who won last year
Lose vs 3xDwarves+Darrack+Morgrimm+AE but I really played bad this one and make several mistakes vs the winner of this 2012's tournament.

You can also watch all the tournament results as an enormous amount of C3V figures were played in it (Varnakaan, Skelettons, ZI, Vulchanmechs, Haduc) I think it would help you for the ranking.
Varnakaan did really well, event if the format (3games with an army 3 games with another advantages them). ZI did good too, Vulchanmechs and Skeletons did no that good (surprising no?)

Finally we have also a kind of MLH league and the HSB are doing really good in it.

I think the HSB+Cutters combo is not a big deal, much more for fun than competitiveness.
HSB+Rats it's an insanely good combo (in your famous compo skip the hydra for 2 squads of HSB and it's even horrible than before for only 30 points more), engage with the rats, barge into the battle, re-engage the rats thanks to Scatter, Barge into the battle with the renforciements, it's close to be broken believe me! :D
HSB+Krav is very fun and quite effective, when the opponent finally suceed to engage the Kravs you use barge into the battle and laugh at him (works also with Nakitas).
HSB+PKs is also one of my favorite, the OM management is a bit tricky but what a fun.

To me they have like almost no weaknesses, they're fast (barge into the battle) stongs (4/4 for 75points) have great synergies (see above). Fortunately they don't have range. :lol:

P.S: And yes I belong to the people who thinks Arashara is overpriced, 150 were good, 200 is too much.
It's even worse for us french people we do not have like 4 squads of legionnaries. T.T
Personally I use it at 80points without bonding.

Foudzing

September 8th, 2012, 05:06 PM

Deathstrike Thrall is better than Preyblood Thrall.I agree. However, if anything, I might have the Preybloods a bit high. I am really not very impressed with the Thralls. They've been used a fair amount in the online events, and I haven't seen them win against anything decent.

I totally agree with you here, they're both bad, but the Preyblood is way worse than the Deathstrike Thrall. I think you just have to go a bit down with the Preyblood Thrall and you're OK.
Fortunately Nicholas is good.

Anyway I don't feel attract by this army I played against once and destroy it only with a bunch of Legionnaries with almost no loss.

Sinve I'm here I (and all the french community) think also that the FGoM is waaaaaay underestimate, he's really good, we use it a lot. It's a shame for him to be on the same level as the Master of the Hunt...

And all the changes are great to me Nilfheim re-up to A, 10th up to A.... great job.

I played against and with the Marro Gnids and they're not a big deal, I don't think they can be competitive. I would place them at the level of Anubians wolves, Venoc Vipers, Aubirans Archers and all this stuff.

capsocrates

September 8th, 2012, 06:18 PM

Fascinating stuff Foudzing, now I have a bunch of new strategies to try with the Horned Skull Brutes. :D

I agree that the Frost Giant of Morh is pretty good. He is almost always a pick at our casual game nights and usually does a fair bit of damage. I don't think people are in the habit of bringing him to tournaments in the U.S.A. though.

Foudzing

September 8th, 2012, 08:38 PM

I agree that the Frost Giant of Morh is pretty good. He is almost always a pick at our casual game nights and usually does a fair bit of damage. I don't think people are in the habit of bringing him to tournaments in the U.S.A. though.

Sure, a Frost Giant against a full 4th is kind of useless. :lol:

But in France he does quite well even in tournaments, this surprised me a bit but the experience said that for us he's a strong contact hero, almost as competitive as Eltahale, just a little under Krug and Sgt. Drake V2.

In the french community everyone knows everyone. That's why our tournaments, even if there is some competitive armies, are more amicals tournaments between friends.

The rule is: you can play a broken army if it's new, but forbidden to play things like full stingers+Rae, full 4th or rats+Q9+Rae. Builds like Heavys Gruts and Glad/blasts are in the limit, you can bring them once but if you keep bringing them you'll be grounded on the forums. :lol:

Moreover most of us cannot afford to have like 4 times all the common squads, only 3 guys have a very big collection like yours, we've to deal with it, if there is no more Deathreavers, you can't play them. :P

That's why we don't have exactly the same metagame as your, but it's almost the same.

I close the Off-Topic here I think I'm going a bit far. :)

Tiranx

November 1st, 2012, 10:20 PM

Just had a great tournament with Zettian Infantry. Here is the link to the battle report,
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1705287&postcount=3

Took
Zettian Infantry X2
Deathwalker 9000
Warden 816
Deathreavers X3
Marcu

I almost think that Warden could use a bump with Zettian Infantry. He helped take the Zettian Infantry to a 4th place win in the Utah NHSD tournament.

dok

November 15th, 2012, 12:27 AM

Anyone with playtesting experience on the large figures is welcome to chime in with thoughts on their power rankings.

capsocrates

November 15th, 2012, 12:31 AM

Well, the Incendiborgs should probably be an A. ;)

dok

November 15th, 2012, 12:32 AM

Well, the Incendiborgs should probably be an A. ;)
They kind of laid waste to everything in the online event, didn't they?

Dad_Scaper

November 15th, 2012, 12:33 AM

Dok, are the Vulcanmechs on the watch list? I know they performed very well for KidScaper last weekend - his Romans weren't great, but his Incendiborgs were bruisers - and I vaguely remember reading about them being used elsewhere effectively, as well. Maybe even online.

edit: Hah! Coincidence, I assure you. What an unlikely ninja. :D

capsocrates

November 15th, 2012, 12:34 AM

As for what you were actually asking, I think Quahon should be a B+/A-. Not sure about the others.

I think the Havechs might be an A-

hivelord

November 15th, 2012, 12:48 AM

I will absolutely support moving the Incendiborgs to an A.

I went 3-2 in the online tournament that just finished and in those three wins, my Vulcanmechs pretty much singlehandedly eliminated the opposing army. Give them a good screen and they just destroy.

Filthy the Clown

November 15th, 2012, 10:16 AM

Quahon: B/B+: the big D has some firepower, but her low defense and high cost keep this in check.

Racheim: B+: A veritable lawnmower with flying and a consistent attack that is not tied to his wounds; plus, he makes a nice counterdraft against lava-lovers (yet another strike against the Obsidians). At 140, I am glad to see that he has a Defense of 4, although I probably won't share this sentiment when facing him.

Morgoloth: B/B+: abilities aside, he is a sturdy beatstick with high mobility and a potent attack. He will breath new life into the Badru.

I am also on the Incendiborgs=A bandwagon.

MegaSilver

November 15th, 2012, 10:26 AM

Quahon: A-/B+ She is very powerful, and hard to counteract her attack due to it's jumpy movement and you can bounce off your own figures. But her low move and sculpt makes her hard to move around.

Fyorlag Spiders: B- Quahon has enough power to boost the Fyorlag up a notch.

DCMII: C+ A nice boost to the Deathstalkers, but can be hard to set up the required combo.

Incendiborgs: A. Extremely powerful behind a screen.

Havechs: A-. With the prevalence of melee nowadays, oftentimes you don't need to risk it. But it's nice to have the range.

nate the dawg

November 15th, 2012, 07:56 PM

Racheim: B+: A veritable lawnmower with flying and a consistent attack that is not tied to his wounds; plus, he makes a nice counterdraft against lava-lovers (yet another strike against the Obsidians). At 140, I am glad to see that he has a Defense of 4, although I probably won't share this sentiment when facing him.
:rofl:
Yeah, I'm not sure that a figure which targets lava-boys is the Obsidians' big issue!

On topic, aside from the difference in height, would you guys say that Nilfy (or maybe Zelrig) is a decent proxy for Racheim. His wings - even altered - appear to really limit placement options, so I figure those two can accurately simulate the 'problem' of placement until I have the disposable income to pick up new minis.

Arch-vile

November 15th, 2012, 08:15 PM

I think Quahon is A- or possibly B+. She is very similar to Nilfheim and has a few advantages and disadvantages.

Racheim: I'd go with somewhere in the B range. He's nothing unstoppable and he can fall easily, but he's a flying Hydra sometimes.

Deathcommander: I'd say somewhere in the B range as well. He is powerful but high cost and low life keep him inconsistent.

dalu

November 20th, 2012, 05:27 AM

Well, the Incendiborgs should probably be an A. ;)

They kind of laid waste to everything in the online event, didn't they?
Dok, are the Vulcanmechs on the watch list? I know they performed very well for KidScaper last weekend - his Romans weren't great, but his Incendiborgs were bruisers - and I vaguely remember reading about them being used elsewhere effectively, as well. Maybe even online.
I will absolutely support moving the Incendiborgs to an A.

I went 3-2 in the online tournament that just finished and in those three wins, my Vulcanmechs pretty much singlehandedly eliminated the opposing army. Give them a good screen and they just destroy.
I am also on the Incendiborgs=A bandwagon.
Incendiborgs: A. Extremely powerful behind a screen.
Add my voice to move up the Incendiborgs to A.

I went 4-0 in the Online Heroscape Season 3 - tournament with them.
My army: Mezzodemon Warmongers x5, Vulcanmech Incendiborgs, Marcu Esenwein.
I never lost a single Incendiborg figure during the tournament.
More details in the Book of Vulcanmech Incendiborgs.

dok

November 20th, 2012, 09:41 AM

OK, I've moved the VIs up to A, even though I haven't done the update for the new expansion or new SoV figures yet.

Hive Lord 1233

November 20th, 2012, 11:20 PM

Heroscaper Guy

December 5th, 2012, 02:39 PM

MegaSilver

December 5th, 2012, 03:00 PM

When will the power rankings be updated? There is multiple figures that need to be changed in status plus the new figures. Fyolarg spiders, fire elementals, wolves of badru, mindflayer mastermind, zettian guards, deathstalkers, mezzodemons, dwarves, plus others I might have forgotten.

They have not been released long enough for enough tournaments plays for most of the figures to be placed in a Ranking. Be patient.

dok

December 5th, 2012, 03:03 PM

When will the power rankings be updated?My inclination is to wait for the end of the regular season of the current online event, as several of the figures are getting a lot of play in that event.

There is multiple figures that need to be changed in status plus the new figures. Fyolarg spiders, fire elementals, wolves of badru, mindflayer mastermind, zettian guards, deathstalkers, mezzodemons, dwarves, plus others I might have forgotten.I don't anticipate a change to some of those:

MFM: Still probably at his best as filler or with Ornak - building around Cxurgy is probably not going to make a very strong build for typical tournament play.
Fire Elementals - Rachiem isn't bad against them, but he's far from the worst matchup for them, and doesn't really change their power in the meta.
Dwarves: Mok is good, and useful to the Dwarves, but he's not dramatically better with Dwarves then, say, Nilfheim or Q9 would be in a similar role.
Mezzodemons: The move bonus from Morgoloth is nice, for sure, but I don't think it bumps them into the "A" range, especially given his cost.

Spiders, WoB, Zettian Guards, and Deathstalkers could definitely be due for a boost.

MegaSilver

December 5th, 2012, 03:10 PM

I did awesome at our local tourney Saturday with Mok; I went 3-1 and came in third place.

He's great in the build as a first line key-figure-killer, or cleanup where the opposing force has nothing that stand toe-to-toe with him. But once you put OMs on him, you must keep at it, so I's say he is a Menacer. Granted he rolled defense like a champ, with 2 shields consistently, and the last game I lost because of a couple bad rolls on Mok and Dwarves; usually it was one or the other.

The build was Mok, Axegrinders x4, and Guilty. Guilty literally did nothing all tourney.

I'd say he is an A/A- figure.

vegietarian18

January 17th, 2013, 04:30 PM

Any chance of getting an update soon? The Peoria B-List Tournament is using your rankings, and we would like to have accurate rankings for the Large Expansion figures, as well as updated rankings after the nearly completed online event.

dok

January 17th, 2013, 04:34 PM

Sure, vegie. I wanted to let the online event play out first, but since it's all done (except for my final two wins ;)) I'll go over the results and put together an update this weekend.

We have plenty of data on Quahon (I'm pretty sure she's going down as an A-) and a decent amount on Mok (probably B+), Rachiem (probably B+), and Morgoloth (B+ or B). We have less for Deathcommander, who I will pencil in at B+, probably.

Spiders, Deathstalkers, WoB, and Zettian Guards will be moving up, but not past B+.

dok

January 30th, 2013, 12:49 PM

I finally got around to updating and blurbing. (Rachiem is my favorite new blurb.)

I think I may have overcooked it slightly by bumping Zettian Guards to a B, but aside from that I think I was pretty conservative with my ranking bumps.

Unrelated to the new figures, I also dropped Preyblood Thralls to C and bumped VBDs to B.

Arch-vile

January 30th, 2013, 01:34 PM

Thanks for updating this dok! I noticed most of the units I'm playing in the Peoria tourney are B or B+ ... hee hee hee.

It's hard to imagine the Zettian Guards as a B, but Deathcommander really brings them there. They were my MVPs in the Deathcommander games I've played.

Sir Dendrik

January 30th, 2013, 04:05 PM

The one ranking that I disagree with is Marro Gnids being a B+. They have a very specific niche (anti-hero-with-3-or-less-defense), and they're only occasionally worth their points.

Just my 2 cents.

dok

January 30th, 2013, 04:16 PM

The one ranking that I disagree with is Marro Gnids being a B+. They have a very specific niche (anti-hero-with-3-or-less-defense), and they're only occasionally worth their points.

Just my 2 cents.I agree. I am planning to knock them down to B, but since they are getting a little play in the current online event I am giving them a chance to prove me wrong.

greygnarl

February 10th, 2013, 01:41 AM

My Mind Flayer friend Cxurg'gyath is missing from the rankings!

vegietarian18

February 12th, 2013, 11:06 AM

Thanks for updating the rankings dok (and really, continuing them after Jexik left). I found that they were pretty accurate at the B-List tournament; there was no one squad that you had severely underrated that dominated everyone. Here are my thoughts on some of the units that showed up:

Skeletons: B+ seems about right to me. I know I went 4-1 with them, and the one loss was a nailbiter, but every single game that I played, the board either had a move glyph or road on it. (actually, I think every board at the tournament had one of those two :lol:). I think they are best with multiple Reanimators, since you can play them more aggressively.

Agent Skahen: I think she's only a B. It's pretty easy to whiff on Stealth Dodge, or even just catch her normally. Cover Fire is kind of hard to pull off. She's basically just a Krav-lite in most situations, and I think one letter grade worse is about the right amount.

Racheim: I think he also needs lowering to a B. He's good, but there are times where Triple Attack with three dice flat out doesn't work. Five move also makes him kind of slow, and he's difficult to place.

Nicholas Esenwein: He definitely needs a bump to at least B+. He's awesome with the Thralls (although the Thralls kinda suck). Just put a single OM on him every round, and dash around the board picking off two squaddies, continuing your mindless pack's advance. He's pretty good with the Skeles too, as a cleanup figure, using Overextend to strategically heal his wounds as he fights for his life. I was able to use a move glyph boosted Nicholas Esenwein as a vulture against Minions of Utgar; moving to where the only Minion that could attack him the next turn was the one he was attacking, and then diving into the fray for an overextend and crippling the Minions activations for the rest of the game.

Morgoloth: I'd say another one who needs a raise up to B+. His bonding squad is kind of mediocre, but his base stats are just incredible. Six move, two attacks of four, four defense and six life? :shock: I'd like to see him as a cleanup figure with the Mezzos to see how he does there (I was considering Mezzos x7 and Morgoloth as my army actually).

Hatamoto Taro: My dad wants him bumped up to at least C-, since he went 3-3 with him, but I think that the metagame helped him out a lot. Still, I don't think he's an F (and I do not understand at all why the Grok Riders aren't).

Heroscaper Guy

February 12th, 2013, 11:10 AM

I think you are underestimating Rachiem as I have been on the receiving end of that triple attack and it really hurts when he's on height. He also has a special to clear out squaddies and flying to help him get height easier.

Filthy the Clown

February 12th, 2013, 11:18 AM

Skeletons: B+ seems about right to me. I know I went 4-1 with them, and the one loss was a nailbiter, but every single game that I played, the board either had a move glyph or road on it. (actually, I think every board at the tournament had one of those two :lol:). I think they are best with multiple Reanimators, since you can play them more aggressively.

I wonder if that ranking is a bit too high, and that they should settle around the B range. Without move glyphs, and with poor Necromancy rolls (which I have seen numerous times in online games), they can have a tough time. What were your Necromancy rolls in your 4-1 games?

vegietarian18

February 12th, 2013, 11:25 AM

You are right. I had an online game where I failed my first five or six necromancies, which really hurt. I also only had three squads of Skeles, and I think you need at least four squads for the dice rolls to even out on you. I was able to play four squads and Nicholas at the B-List event, since the point total was high. My exact build was Skeletons x4, Nicholas, Preyblood Thrall x1, and Otonashi.

I rolled well my first three games, and won those three. I rolled poorly in my fourth, but Nicholas Esenwein bailed me out of that one. My last one was probably my only average one, but it was a loss (but I was facing WoA without any range :lol:).

The CEE

April 15th, 2013, 03:48 PM

Anyone have a chance to try out any Wave 16 figures yet? I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts on the new units' power rankings. I'll be waiting in anticipation. :popcorn:

Arch-vile

April 15th, 2013, 04:22 PM

I haven't played these guys a whole lot, but I might as well offer my opinions of them. I look forward to Season 7 of Online'scape and seeing these guys in use competitively.

Dreadgul Raiders: B
The Dreadguls are fun, but they aren't shaking up the metagame. Jotun is a threat no matter what, but he's such a huge target, too. Getting a good Berserker Charge can turn the game around fast.

Eilan Sidhe: B-
Good on a tree map, but with only two squad figures the Eilan are tough to use well. They make an excellent Dungeon Crawl enemy, when going through a creepy forest.

Cathar Spearmen: B to B+
The Cathar are brutal against melee, but still require the luck of the d20. They are slow without Marcus or Raymond as well.

Count Raymond: B
The Count is a great pick for the Cathar, but he brings nothing super powerful to the table. His attack of 4 is nice.

Tomoe Gozen: B+
Tomoe helps the Unique Samurai squads with their order marker management, and can boost their Counter Strike. She isn't bad with Tagawa Archers either. Just remember to almost always bring Raelin with your Samurai!

Tomb Skeletons: B- to C+
The Tomb Skeletons are dirt cheap with nice attack, but slow and easy to kill. Watch out for swarms! The Tomb Skeletons are another excellent Dungeon Crawl enemy.

awesomeunleashed

April 15th, 2013, 04:28 PM

I'm generally with Arch. To add to his post, I'd put Augamo at B+ and Siiv & Kursus at B or B+.

Also, I think the Gnids should be lowered to B-, or at least B; they just aren't B+ good.

The Microcorp Troopers are at least B+, possibly A-.

bobinchese

April 15th, 2013, 07:17 PM

I would put the Troopers at A-. I played them against the 4th mass and they almost won. They're not A or A+ because they really need Raelin, but a four man ranged squad with a special attack needs to be at least A-.

The only other custom from this wave I've played is Augamo, and I would put him at B or B+.

capsocrates

April 15th, 2013, 08:21 PM

The Spearmen are a solid B+. I could see them at A- in the future, but they are a little matchup-dependent and they can be slow if you don't use Marcus and/or the Count, which makes build variance tricky.

kolakoski

April 15th, 2013, 08:52 PM

Well met!

The Dreadguls, Microcorps Troopers, and Siiv, as well as Eradicators, Racheim, Cxurgyath, a Skull Demon, and Quahon, all found there way into the Three Gates Battle Report (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=2247).

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/5/4/9/9/photo_529.jpg
Fireline!
The Dreadguls and Microcorps Troopers didn't fare too well, while Siiv was pretty scary - and definitely worth the 40 points.