LotR 'Scape Project- Playtest thread

[elvenwizard9]

This is the Lord of the Rings 'Scape Project Playtest Thread.

Anyone may submit a unit card to be tested. After playtesting, the testers may vote. Full process posted here:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37156
Playtesters:
1. boromir96
2. Arya
3. ullarted
4. orcelfarmyone
5. -

The creator of the card may withdraw their card at any time in the process, and also may make minor stat and wording changes to their card before it is passed on to the judges.

Please, one unit at a time, first come, first serve.

Unit being tested:
Boromir by Kaemon Awa 123
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae327/KaemonAwa123/BOROMIR-2.jpg

[elvenwizard9]

Playtesters, you may begin to nominate units from the idea dump. I highly reccomend one of Kaemon Awa 123's cards. Please note the system change on the main thread's first post.

[boromir96]

I would like to nominate Gandalf by Kaemonawa 123

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae327/KaemonAwa123/GANDALFTHEGREY-1.jpg?t=1313359378

[Kaemon Awa 123]

So, this is officially the version we're going with?

Oh, and it isn't really by me, I'd call it a community effort. I just looked through all the ideas and threw them together, with a little bit of my own modifications thrown in.

[elvenwizard9]

Playtesting system edit; plese view on main thread.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

So, the person who created the stats/card nominates, right? Not that it matters because I'm a playtester...

I would like to nominate Legolas, by me.
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae327/KaemonAwa123/LEGOLAS.jpg?t=1313421079

Also, I would like to withdraw the currently nominated version of Gandalf the Grey and nominate this version, it's easier to understand and slightly more thematic.
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae327/KaemonAwa123/GANDALFTHEGREY-2.jpg?t=1313359847

I'll hold off for a while on Gimli, I'd like to think about him for a while, there's one little change I might make...

[boromir96]

So now,Is there supposed to be a vote on this?Or do we just start testing.

[elvenwizard9]

So now,Is there supposed to be a vote on this?Or do we just start testing.
Test, then vote on whether or not to pass it on.

[boromir96]

Hey,I've been playing around with Legolas and I think you should change his light feet to read like this,

Legolas may count Heavy Snow and Slippery Ice as one space when moving,and double his height when moving down levels of terrain.Legolas may move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Also,bump his points up to 120.

[elvenwizard9]

Playtesters:
You may begin testing, please post results in the shown format.

Creators of Cards:
You may begin submiting cards.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

Do we really need to use the C3V form? We aren't reporting to someone higher, we just need to do playtesting so that we can inform ourselves enough to vote. Think of SoV, BoV or RoV judges, they don't fill out a form...

[Taeblewalker]

The form does offer some sructure, though. I would vote for it. But I don't want to turn people off.

[elvenwizard9]

Do we really need to use the C3V form? We aren't reporting to someone higher, we just need to do playtesting so that we can inform ourselves enough to vote. Think of SoV, BoV or RoV judges, they don't fill out a form...
Ok, ok. I guess it will be easier that way.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

Do we really need to use the C3V form? We aren't reporting to someone higher, we just need to do playtesting so that we can inform ourselves enough to vote. Think of SoV, BoV or RoV judges, they don't fill out a form...
Ok, ok. I guess it will be easier that way.Thanks, the form is great when you need people to report results to a governing body, but when your testing to make a descision on your own, it becomes a little unnecessary.

[elvenwizard9]

Is this dead? :(

[Son of Arathorn]

Absolutely not! Still playtesting! Would you like me to post the results of my most recent findings?

[boromir96]

I am playtesting Legolas right now,As I said above I think you should change his light feet to read like this,

Legolas may count Heavy Snow and Slippery Ice as one space when moving,and double his height when moving down levels of terrain.Legolas may move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Also,bump his points up to 120.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

I am playtesting Legolas right now,As I said above I think you should change his light feet to read like this,

Legolas may count Heavy Snow and Slippery Ice as one space when moving,and double his height when moving down levels of terrain.Legolas may move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Also,bump his points up to 120.
I think that Light Feet works well as is, with a powerful special ability that only works from range, disengagement seems too strong.

Is this dead? :(No! Certainly not... I just haven't had much time to playtest, I've been scrambling around trying to find some maps for a tournament I'm organizing. Give me a week or so, and I'll get something.

[elvenwizard9]

Absolutely not! Still playtesting! Would you like me to post the results of my most recent findings?
Most certainly, yes!
I am playtesting Legolas right now,As I said above I think you should change his light feet to read like this,

Legolas may count Heavy Snow and Slippery Ice as one space when moving,and double his height when moving down levels of terrain.Legolas may move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Also,bump his points up to 120.
I think that Light Feet works well as is, with a powerful special ability that only works from range, disengagement seems too strong.

Is this dead? :(No! Certainly not... I just haven't had much time to playtest, I've been scrambling around trying to find some maps for a tournament I'm organizing. Give me a week or so, and I'll get something.
Organizing tournaments is a pain, but the results are well worth it. I understand, having never attended a HeroScape event that I myself have not organized.

[Son of Arathorn]

Well, Gandalf for one thing, is a tricky one. A bit of a gamble, I find, though he requires more playtesting. His special attack can take on good squads, but I find that is common squads like stingers and any other ranged A squad go after him, he can go down quick. If he had another life, he would become more reliable. Subtle and quick to anger has only worked for me a few times, but when it works, it works well. I used an all heroes army, and it went amazingly smooth after I switched OM's. I think it was Crixus, Gandalf, Krug, and Major Q10. They faced a Stinger, Nagrub, Su-Bak-Na build. While Stingers actually carried the day, Gandalf held a glyph for a good while, and rearranged the OM's twice. Fun unit, but I feel he could be tweaked just a bit. I also have a question. If Gandalf is destroyed, does SaQtA still take effect?

[Taeblewalker]

I would say S and Q no longer works, just like Teleport Reinforcements.

[Son of Arathorn]

That's what I thought, but then you have a big problem. I find that with a low end defense and an average life, a squad of Stingers can dogpile him and create a problem, that being that you get 2-3 attempts at S & Q. I dunno, maybe a life of 6 would make it better.

[elvenwizard9]

Any progress on playtesting, playtesters? I really want to try out some finished products in a LotR scenario with my 'Scape club, once the minis come out. :)

[Arya]

Is this dead? If not, I would like to post results of my game using Legolas and Gandalf against each other. The armies were:

Gandalf/140
Phantom Knights x4/280

Vs.

Legolas/110
Deepwyrm Drow x4/280
Sahuagin Raider/25

The map was super friendly to Phantom Knights. Nevertheless, the Legolas army was victorious. I really liked Bowmaster. Also, SaQtA saved Phantom Knights a few times. It ended with one Drow against on Phantom Knight. The Drow had height.

[samuelfrost4]

Is this dead? If not, I would like to post results of my game using Legolas and Gandalf against each other. The armies were:

Gandalf/140
Phantom Knights x4/280

Vs.

Legolas/110
Deepwyrm Drow x4/280
Sahuagin Raider/25

The map was super friendly to Phantom Knights. Nevertheless, the Legolas army was victorious. I really liked Bowmaster. Also, SaQtA saved Phantom Knights a few times. It ended with one Drow against on Phantom Knight. The Drow had height.

No its not dead! People are just playtesting. I would love to see your battle report if its not too much trouble. :)

[elvenwizard9]

Is this dead? If not, I would like to post results of my game using Legolas and Gandalf against each other. The armies were:

Gandalf/140
Phantom Knights x4/280

Vs.

Legolas/110
Deepwyrm Drow x4/280
Sahuagin Raider/25

The map was super friendly to Phantom Knights. Nevertheless, the Legolas army was victorious. I really liked Bowmaster. Also, SaQtA saved Phantom Knights a few times. It ended with one Drow against on Phantom Knight. The Drow had height.
Good report! Glad to hear this is still active. Hoping to do a LotR 'Scape game with my club sometime soon. I have a meet with them today, but we're not doing the LotR 'Scape. I hope to do it in November or December.

[Son of Arathorn]

I do apologize for my inactivity! :( I've been going OCD over my first tourney and playtesting my own army. IMO, Gandalf works best supported by a couple of heavy hitters and a couple good squads. This gives them numbers/power and it keeps opportunities open for SaQtaA. Again, sorry.

[Sir Dendrik]

It feels like Bowmaster should be inverted. Or is Legolas really a hero killer? It seems he would be a lot more adaptive if he would attack 3 time when attacking 3 different figures. Squad killing is paramount, hero killing is not.

[Arya]

Is this dead? If not, I would like to post results of my game using Legolas and Gandalf against each other. The armies were:

Gandalf/140
Phantom Knights x4/280

Vs.

Legolas/110
Deepwyrm Drow x4/280
Sahuagin Raider/25

The map was super friendly to Phantom Knights. Nevertheless, the Legolas army was victorious. I really liked Bowmaster. Also, SaQtA saved Phantom Knights a few times. It ended with one Drow against on Phantom Knight. The Drow had height.

No its not dead! People are just playtesting. I would love to see your battle report if its not too much trouble. :)

I don't remember the details. Legolas took out Gandalf from height, but SaQtA made sure that the two order markers that were on Gandalf weren't wasted. The Drow mainly were the ones to kill the Phantom Knights. Eventually, Legolas was beaten by a Phantom Knight. The Sahuagin Raider was also killed by a Phantom Knight. That's about all I remember. Sorry.

[elvenwizard9]

Hello?
We should be more active.

[Son of Arathorn]

See the Idea Dump. I'm going to go post some concepts. Also, I'm wondering if we should sign up public playtesters for more feedback. We could PM truth, and ask him to put a notice in the next site announcement. What do you think?

[elvenwizard9]

See the Idea Dump. I'm going to go post some concepts. Also, I'm wondering if we should sign up public playtesters for more feedback. We could PM truth, and ask him to put a notice in the next site announcement. What do you think?
Sounds like an excellent idea! Public testing sounds good.

[boromir96]

Playtest report-Boromir
He is a nice solid hero,With no Obvious synergy(except for the horn)I think He is priced just right,But he could be bumped down to 130 for simplicity(I hate cards that end in 5)
One thing to note is that the wording on the horn lets you move enemy squad figures in and out of engagements(back and forth,Back and forth) so they will almost ALWAYS die.I think it should be changed to"5 spaces in a straight line" instead of "5 spaces away".that way they can only take pretty much one or two disengagement attacks.

[Son of Arathorn]

Nice report B96, I'm going to be playtesting your namesake today. Can anyone suggest a good playtest army?
EDIT: I've come up with a playtest army for Boromir. A bit of an unorthodox twist, but I'd like to see what it does.
Boromir- 135
Marcus Decimus Gallus- 100
Romans x4- 200
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan- 65
500 points, 19 hexes.

vs.

Death Chasers of Thesk x3- 165
Ogre Pulverizer x2- 200
Raelin (RotV)- 80
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider- 50
Isamu- 10
495 points, 15 hexes.

I'm hoping that at least once in this game, Boromir will force the orcs into a pack with Shotgun moving up, and then Sullivan can fire away at the mob on the next OM.

[elvenwizard9]

We need Boromir to be tested one more time. I believe that Kaemon Awa 123 didn't send the card himself, though. From now on I think we should keep it the testing to the card submitted by the user, so they can tweak it if need be. I have PMed Kaemon Awa 123, asking him to tweak based off of the playtests. Once he does and we get on more test, the card will (finally!) be ready for judging. Thanks for your time, playtesters.

[elvenwizard9]

Old card:
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae327/KaemonAwa123/BOROMIR.jpg?t=1314460439

New card: TBA

[Kaemon Awa 123]

One thing to note is that the wording on the horn lets you move enemy squad figures in and out of engagements(back and forth,Back and forth) so they will almost ALWAYS die.I think it should be changed to"5 spaces in a straight line" instead of "5 spaces away".that way they can only take pretty much one or two disengagement attacks.
Ok, this was one problem I didn't think of.

As it is, I don't think they take any disengagements, based off of rulings dealing with the same problem with Marcu. Maybe not though, because you're only moving them.

If something needs to be changed, I would simply make it say that they can't take disengagements at all, otherwise it's vastly more powerful than I designed it.

[boromir96]

I think they should be able to take leaving engagements,It seems more thematic.But I think the squad figs should have to be within so many spaces of Boromir before moving(maybe 5?)

[Kaemon Awa 123]

The power's wordy enough. I say we go with the simplest solution to keep confusion to a minimum.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

Revised Boromir is up in the idea dump.

[elvenwizard9]

Revised Boromir is up in the idea dump.
Could you post him here?

[elvenwizard9]

New Boromir card by Kaemon Awa 123:
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae327/KaemonAwa123/BOROMIR-2.jpg
Please test this updated version instead of the old one.

[boromir96]

I'm just not sure he is worth 135 now,He is comparable to Migol(110) and crixus(90) And they both bond with good squads.

[Son of Arathorn]

I wouldn't say he's comparable to Crixus, he's got a way higher chance of pulling up a shield for One Shield Defense. Not to mention his awesome special ability. However, if the leaving engagement attacks are removed... I'll have to play another couple games with him like this instead.

[boromir96]

I ran a few short tests with the new version,Against,
Deathwalker 9000=lost
Cyprien=lost(put 4 wounds on)
Krug=lost(5 wounds?)
2x tenth=lost(killed 1 10th)
1x tenth=1win(when I played Boromir) and 1 loss(when my brother played Boromir

[Son of Arathorn]

Judging from the tests you ran in sorta-one-on-one format, Boromir it seems, needs backup to be effective in a game. He needs a screen of sorts, perhaps? Definitely some heroes to back him up. Which means his place will either be an add-on in a bonding army, like Romans/Knights/Dwarves/Orcs/Whatever/Greenscales, or a hodge-podge with non-bonding heroes and squads, like 10th/Phantom Knights/Whatever. I'll test him in armies like these and report back, I had to cut my other match short when we changed the card to remove the disengagement attacks.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

I really like Boromir in a Romans/10th army for higher point games. Moving more Warlords is awesome, and if he positions Marcus right then you can make more attacks with Me-Burq-Sa

[ullarted]

Play tested the new boromir card today. I had boromir, roman archers, isamu, brunak, syvaris, and migol. He had Torky, x2 tenth, spiders, and a wyvern. We played on the map from the tj rule book. It started off pretty well used boromir to run up and used the horn to allow brunak to put syvaris on height. Worked for awile but the game fell apart after boromir was killed. He won with one squad of tenth remaining. All in all, I think this unit is pretty sound point wise and thematicly.

[OrcElfArmyOne]

Just played a 500 point game with Legolas:
Legolas
4x KoW
Sir Gilbert
against:
4x Blade Gruts
Grimnak
Tornak
Nerak
1x Heavies, dropping 2 blades
Legollas killed Grimnak, Nerak, 2 heavies, all 14 blades, and dealt 1 wound to Tornak. The knights killed 2 heavies and dealt the other 2 wounds to Tornak. I won with only losing 5 knights and 4 wounds on Legolas. He is a great addition to any powerful melee army.

[OrcElfArmyOne]

I just played another LotR game, using all 3, but against each other.
Legolas`s team:
Legolas
3x Warriors of Ashra
3x Warforged Soldiers
Gandalf`s team:
Gandalf
Boromir
4x Drow chainfighter
Hydra
Legolas`s team won with only 6 WoA dead.
Legolas killed Gandalf, Boromir, all the drow, and 1 wound on the hydra.
Gandalf killed 2 WoA.
Boromir killed nobody.
Legolas is great, but it seems that Gandalf is a tad too fragile; maybe boost up his defense by 1 and making his special better. I would change his special to the same one that Nilfheim and Captain America have. Or, instead of boosting his special, also boost his life up 1. Boromir just doesn`t cut it, unless he will get bonded with later on by a gondorian knight squad. He is too comparable to Migol. He is way too expensive.

[Bloody Bogle]

Any chance you guys need more playtesters? I'm a huge LotR fan.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

As much as I love the current design for Legolas, it seems he might be a tad bit overpowered. Maybe he needs some tests without any unfinalized units.

And Bloody Bogle, feel free to test away!

[OrcElfArmyOne]

As much as I love the current design for Legolas, it seems he might be a tad bit overpowered. Maybe he needs some tests without any unfinalized units.

And Bloody Bogle, feel free to test away!

Yeah, I was thinking that too. However, he usually falls once engaged. I will probably test him again with...rats! I also think Boromir needs tons of help, unless he will have bonding squads later on. I sent a PM to elvenwizard9 asking to become a playtester.

[OrcElfArmyOne]

This project feels dead. We must be more active! Yes even me!

[OrcElfArmyOne]

Just played 1 last game with Legolas:
Legolas
2x Quasatch Hunters
2x Deepwyrm Drow
2x Drow Chainfighter
against:
4x Deathchasers of Thesk
Ogre Pulverizer
Me-Burq-Sa
Nerak
Raelin
Legolas` team won. The Quasatch/Deepwyrm did most of the work. I felt the need to fight squads with squads. Legolas took over when all the quasatch and 4 deepwyrm were dead. He killed Raelin, 2 DC`s, and 1 wound to Nerak. He was mainly a scare factor.

[OrcElfArmyOne]

I give Legolas a :thumbsup:. He won with a 4-man bonding squad, 2 3-man non-bonding good squads, and 2 3-man non-bonding bot good squads. He is a great addition to any army and I believe he should be passed. We just need 2 other playtesters to give the thumbs-up, and then he can be judged.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

I give Legolas a :thumbsup:. He won with a 4-man bonding squad, 2 3-man non-bonding good squads, and 2 3-man non-bonding bot good squads. He is a great addition to any army and I believe he should be passed. We just need 2 other playtesters to give the thumbs-up, and then he can be judged.
See, this is what throws up the OP flag for me. We need him to be balanced, not supremely powerful, and able to win with everything.

I know I said I didn't have time for this project anymore... but look forward to a new draft of Legolas. ;)

[OrcElfArmyOne]

Yes, but he breathes new light on otherwise bad squads, not by always killing, but by also scaring. He also can die if he is engaged. He isn`t good when engaged. I won all 3 times by not letting him get engaged. As soon as he does, he will go down.

[OrcElfArmyOne]

I also had the attack and defense plus 1 glyphs the entire game, and I found that drow and quasatch work beautifuly together.

[elvenwizard9]

This project is still alive?

KaemonAwa123, I think with losing you, we lost a critical member... You made about 75% of our cards in the idea dump.

[boromir96]

Alright I'm really gonna start Playtesting now!

I kinda think we should all work on the same Fig right now,instead of like 5 different ones:shrug:

I REALLY think Boromir should be able to give Disengagment attacks with his horn.
Thematically it seems like they should (They're fleeing in fear,Think Cowards reward ;))

[Son of Arathorn]

Well, it would certainly warrant his 130 point cost. But until the Platesters vote nay, and a new version is made, you're stuck with the one we have now.

[elvenwizard9]

How 'bout EVERYONE does Legolas right now?

[OrcElfArmyOne]

Great idea! If we all work on the same figure we can get things done quicker. I won`t post, but I`ll keep track, and start playtesting Gandalf, unless you want me to do more playtests than the 3 I already did.

[boromir96]

How 'bout EVERYONE does Legolas right now?

I'm good with that8)