crazy all hero carrying army idea

[kenjib]

I had a somewhat wacky scheme and wanted to see what people think of it. Here's the army:

Brunak - 110 pts
Thorgrim - 80 pts
Finn - 80 pts
Theracus - 40 pts
Crixus/Retarius/Ne-Gok-Sa (haven't decided yet) - 90 pts
Total: 400 pts

First wave you send in Brunak carrying Thorgrimm for the defense bonus. Keep attacking until both are dead. Put Thorgrimm on Crixus/Retarius/Ne-Gok-Sa.

Second wave you send in Theracus carrying Finn for the attack bonus. When they are both dead put Finn on Crixus/Retarius/Ne-Gok-Sa.

Finally you send in the pumped up Crixus/Retarius/Ne-Gok-Sa for the last wave.

This just sounds fun as heck so I think I'll try it even if it ends up getting smashed to pieces. I have three questions though:

1. Will this army get smashed to pieces by most of the typical opposition (I'm thinking yes)?
2. Has anyone tried something like this?
3. Who should I pick as the final hero? I'm leaning toward Crixus for his staying power as the last man standing though the sheer audacity of Ne-Gok-Sa's rare last minute turn of luck if things are going bad make him kind of appealing for the fun aspect. Retarius could also get really lucky and take a few guys out quickly with good rolls.

[Chimpy]

I like the idea. I would go with Crixus if I was you.

[yagyuninja]

That army sounds like real fun! :lol:

I like the multiple-waves strategy, since it would be so very simple. That's 19 lives spread throughout that army too...

Next time I play I'm playing this army! (Er, maybe the next time after I try out Ornak. He still needs some love.)

[CupidsArt]

Yeah I'm with Chimpy on this one. He has a better chace at hanging around through the final moments of the game, :)

[kenjib]

I just thought of something else. If you're using a map with glyphs you can drop Thorgrimm off on the defense glyph and Finn on the offense glyph before attacking with Brunak and Theracus. With the speed of those two units plus the ability to move up height quickly (Brunak can place his carried figure up to 7 levels higher and Theracus flies) you've got a fair chance of getting them both first. It's the same bonus but now the whole team gets it instead of just the guy carrying them. Even when your opponent kills Thorgrimm or Finn later Crixus will still get the bonus as if you still held the glyph thanks to the warrior spirits so you don't even have to be too concerned when you lose the glyphs.

[Bobbo]

1. Will this army get smashed to pieces by most of the typical opposition (I'm thinking yes)?
2. Has anyone tried something like this?
3. Who should I pick as the final hero? I'm leaning toward Crixus for his staying power as the last man standing though the sheer audacity of Ne-Gok-Sa's rare last minute turn of luck if things are going bad make him kind of appealing for the fun aspect. Retarius could also get really lucky and take a few guys out quickly with good rolls.

1. I would think that you would get hit pretty hard by most armies. I think that the biggest weakness is the lack of range. The best you can hope for is Brunak and Thorgrim can take out any key ranged figures, because if they don't then wave 2 and 3 are going to be shot to pieces before they can engage the enemy. Wave 2 might actually reach a fireline, but if any ranged squads go before Theracus, they are going to kill him and leave finn stranded. If there are any ranged left when wave 3 comes, chances are pretty good that you aren't going ot last very long.

2. I played a similar army in the Mass tourney. It was:
Brunak
Crixus
Raelin
Me-Burq-Sa
Marro Warriors

It basically played off the carrying idea, but not going for the waves and the eventual pumped up guy at the end.
I ran into some problems, and you can read about all that here:http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=2673

3. I would go with Crixus or Ne-Gok-Sa. I'm not even sure which one would be better in this situation. You are probably better off with Crixus.

[Agent Minivann]

If it was me I would run the Brunak Thorgrim combo in the second wave. Therscus Finn would be nice as a first strike wave due to the movement. The second wave wouldn't theoretically have to move so far, and there might be spots just begging for blood hungry special attack after a few turns.

Yes it does sound really fun. Thanks for sharing!

[DrLivingston]

I think Brunak/Thorgrim would be better out second as well. Army looks fun. I'd like to hear how it does.

[Agent Minivann]

You know on second thought I think it would be better to start with Brunak. If Theracus goes first he would get into a situation where the opponent could pick the ideal figure to attack Theracus. Theracus would get much closer to the starting zone, so he'd really be in for a fight. Going with Brunak first would allow the opponent to thin out first. After Brunak does some damage and there is spacing, Theracus can zoom in and exploit favorable matchups. There might be a longer lifespan for him then.

[Bobbo]

Going with Brunak first would allow the opponent to thin out first. After Brunak does some damage and there is spacing, Theracus can zoom in and exploit favorable matchups. There might be a longer lifespan for him then.

Yeah, I agree. The Brunak/Thorgrim combo is good because it will actually get where it is going. Brunak carrying Thorgrim is looking at a base 8 defense and 3 life, and Thorgrim can take hits too. They aren't likely to be shot down before reaching the enemy. Theracus isn't likely to do very much damage even when paired with Finn. Chances are Theracus isn't going to do well in combat, and will be killed easily, and that could possibly cost you order markers. The only chance wave 2 has of doing anywhere near their points in damage is picking off the single low defense guys (Me-Burq-Sa and the Cowboys are a prime target for a Theracus/Finn raid. Syvarris would probably be an ideal target).

[Jormi_Boced]

I would use the Krav as your guys to put the spirit on, and then you would have some range support as well. But, you would need to be playing a 500 point army for it to work. In lieu of that you could use Marro Warriors and something else to round off that 40 points.

[kenjib]

Bobbo - sounds like you got some really bum rolls in that tourney. Sorry to hear it.

Jormi - good idea using a ranged unit instead. If I like it the first time out I might try that for a second go. For some reason I'm just stuck on the all-melee theme even though I know it won't work as well. The marros especially might be really good for a last unit standing, plus I could throw in Guilty with them. :D

Thanks for all of the strategic tips everyone. It's great stuff. I suppose how to deploy would really depend on what your opponent is fielding, how they place their markers, and what kind of glyphs are on the board. I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to try this out but I'll report back when I do.

[kenjib]

I ran it last night. The map was Migol's Tomb which was actually a *very* bad map for this team. I was fighting against Raelin, Nifelheim, and 2 knights of Weston.

First round I got both of the vikings onto the attack and defense glyphs inside the cave. Second round Theracus went after Raelin and only got one wound on her before going down to the knights. So far I had been able to keep Nifelheim from ever attacking more than 2 people. Pretty good. Now Brunak had a serious problem. He had dropped off his viking under the cave but his sword was too tall so he had to go back and all the way around. What's worse was that he was 1 move short of getting back around the river on his first move from the dropoff point. He really got hosed because of the map and I lost maybe 3 order markers because of it. He eventually killed a knight and did some serious damage to Nifelheim before dying. The vikings got picked off by some bad rolls, leaving Crixus alone against almost the entire opposing army. First he rushes Nifelheim, but even with Raelin's defensive bonus the dragon could not withstand a 6 attack for long, and the one shield defense kicked some major booty!

I then won initiative and was able to get Raelin engaged before she could move away. I also got her down to 1 life left with the ensuing attack. Instead of risking disengage he decided to attack with her. He got incredibly lucky with 3 skulls and me failing to roll any shields. Crixus was down to 1 life.

He killed Raelin easily and was left facing 7 knights with 1 life. Thanks to his move being 1 higher, he was able to run up the hill and get the healing glyph, as well as high ground. He then summoned one of the knights off of the defensive glyph and killed it. Six knights left and a fully healed Crixus, however my opponent had both attack and defense glyphs. He holed up in the cave while I tried maneuvering to trick him into exposing himself for an easier attack. Eventually I was able to bait him out into a slightly advantageous postion. It finally came down to Crixus with one life left, 3 knights on the field (only 2 of them in range), and an initiative roll. I lost initiative and the game. If I had won it, who knows, I might have won with a bit of luck.

I had some map problems and bad luck which cause the first waves to underperform severely but Crixus kicked an incredible amount of butt, taking out almost an entire army by himself! Unfortunately, he's really not designed to take on squads of 4 units. I was hoping to take out more knights with Brunak so I wouldn't have to face that problem.

Not a great army but it was a lot of fun for a casual match. I really liked playing it and will definitely do it again for kicks, even though I will expect to lose unless my opponent is also trying something casual and fun.

[yagyuninja]

I played this army (sort of) last night...it was fun!

It was a 500 point game, so instead of crixus/retiarius/negoksa I had Nilfheim as my endgame unit.

I took out Theracus/Finn first, and with a lot of luck they actually did some damage, taking out Drake and surviving a lot longer than they should have. After they died, I took out Brunak/Thorgrimm. Thorgrimm ended up getting Negated, but not before Brunak cleared nearly everyone off the board. When there was only opposing figure left I brought in Nilfheim (cause I don't use him often...I wanted him to eat someone) and finished him off.

Fun stuff, though I did get pretty lucky at the start of the game. Nilfheim as your ender (or Q9...scary!) makes this team pretty nifty.

Thanks for the idea, Kenjib!

[markwars]

I just decided on my army for tomorrow's mini tourney here in DFW. :)

[yagyuninja]

Awesome! Make sure we get a battle report!

[markwars]

Will do. Now I just need to decide on using Nilfheim or Q9.

[kenjib]

Did you end up trying it out Markwars? If so, how did it work out?

I wanted to revisit this army idea using 500 points now. The core still consists of:

Brunak
Thorgrim
Theracus
Finn

310 points

Now with 190 points left we suddenly have a ton of options. Here are some of them:

1. Niflheim (at 6/1/7/5)
495 points

2. Q9 (at 5/8/5/8 )
490 points

3. Krug (at 6/1/3/4), Eldgrim, either Arrow Gruts or Deathreavers
500 points

4. Kaemon Awa (at 6/7/5/5), Eldgrim, Deathreavers
490 points

5. Airborne Elite (at 4/8/4/3), Deathreavers x 2
500 points

6. Airborne Elite (at 4/8/4/5), Raelin
490 points

7. Tagawa Samurai (at 7/1/4/6), Eldgrim, Deathreavers
500 points

8. Krav Maga Agents (at 6/7/4/6), Raelin
490 points

9. Syvarris (at 5/9/4/5), Raelin
490 points

10. Ninjas of the Northern Wind (at 7/1/5/4), Eldgrim, Deathreavers
490 points

The clean-up units are listed first in each combo with their max spirit and aura boosted stats in parenthesis - these guys receive all of the spirits. If Eldgrim is in the mix he becomes a glyph grabber. If he dies then it's yet another way to boost your clean-up unit. Deathreavers can serve either as glyph grabbers and as a way to extend the life of your clean-up unit by tieing up attackers and keeping them from swarming your cleaner depending on the opposition faced. Raelin's use is obvious - yet another boost for the clean-up unit but I'm worried about order marker management at this phase where mobility will be key so Raelin so I only paired her with ranged units as they give more flexibility on positioning.

Which of these look the best to you guys?

I also toyed with the idea of tossing the Marro warriors in instead of deathreavers as a filler unit, but I thought that kind of diluted the core philosophy behind the team - even if it might be effective. Like all of the stat-boosters the deathreavers are completely a support unit and another glyph or two could make the clean-up unit truly scary.

[Aldin]

Kenjib,

I like Nilfheim best of the options - he really seems to fit the role well and can certainly use the defensive boost to make him a monster :)

Since you brought the thread up again, it seems like a decent place to cross-fertilize with an idea guerrilanator had. He used Ornak, Brunak and Ke-Mo-Shi as a first turn superslingshot. By placing one marker on Ornak he was able to move Brunak carrying KMS and then move KMS. Not sure if Ornak slingshots fit into your ideas here, but worth considering.

~Aldin, hiding the unique squads

[markwars]

Did you end up trying it out Markwars? If so, how did it work out?

What a blast from the past! :lol: Yeah I did try that army out. It was a single elimination mini-tourney and I lost in the first round. To be fair to my army the person that beat me was Velenne who ended up winning it all that day. He had an army consisting of Braxis, Charos, and another unit I can't remember - it was two months ago.

I brought in Theracus and Finn and killed off his incidental squad and then got both of them killed by Braxis. Braxis then almost got killed by Thorgrim and Brunak, but in the end she prevailed with one life point left. At that moment I was charging hard to snag a heal glyph with the super-Nilfheim, but a loss of initiative let Braxis get there first. That changed everything. Super-Nilf was able to take her down, but he was hurt by the time he had to take on a fully healed Charos.

As I said though, this army had a chance to win against the eventual champ that day.

What was far more demoralizing was playing a pick-up game against ninthdoc after that. He was playing with Wave 6 units for the first time that day and took on that same army. Right of the bat he used a Shade and it took possession of Finn. :( He then proceeded to turn into Dice Jesus and schooled me in front of a good buddy of mine that I was wanting to introduce to Scape. I'm glad he did because later my buddy told me that he wanted to be a part of any game that would allow him to dominate me the way ninth had. :P He has since bought the Master Set and several expansions, but he has yet to beat me. :twisted:

[kenjib]

Kenjib,

I like Nilfheim best of the options - he really seems to fit the role well and can certainly use the defensive boost to make him a monster :)

Since you brought the thread up again, it seems like a decent place to cross-fertilize with an idea guerrilanator had. He used Ornak, Brunak and Ke-Mo-Shi as a first turn superslingshot. By placing one marker on Ornak he was able to move Brunak carrying KMS and then move KMS. Not sure if Ornak slingshots fit into your ideas here, but worth considering.

~Aldin, hiding the unique squads

I think it's an interesting idea but I wonder if Ke-Mo-Shi has the durability to fight alone in the middle of an opponent's full force. She's kind of vulnerable there. I guess the best result would be against an army with a lot of support units that will be positioned with the early order markers - raelin, reavers, etc. That gives the surprise attack the benefit of pre-empting any of your opponents useful units to counter with and possibly earns you a turn or two without reprisals to try and make this combo worth it's cost by getting her adjacent to a large number of units. I think you'd be in trouble against an army that doesn't have support units to position in the first round though and winning initiative would be pretty critical.

[kenjib]

Hehe - that sounds like a lot of fun Markwars. Yeah, I came up with this team more as a fun team than a hard core competitive one.

[markwars]

Well it almost worked for that one day at least. I'd be willing to try it again soon.

[markwars]

I played that army again last night against an army of:

Syvarris
Monks x 2
Aubrien Archers
WoA x 2
Theracus
Eldgrim

I got rid of Finn first and quickly. I placed him on Nilf.

Then I ran Brunak out and had quite a bit of success with him. I actually killed three of his figures (including Eldgrim) with on Blood Hungry Attack.

Then I brought out Nilfheim and just rocked my opponent's world. It was a lot of fun and I got to see first hand why Nilf is so feared by those that like to play SquadScape.

[kenjib]

I'll have to try it with Nilf. I tried a variant on the army last night:

Knights of Weston
Brunak
Finn
Thorgrim
Eldgrim
Ke-Mo-Shi

I played against

Tagawa
Izumi
Kozuke
Ninjas
Kaemon Awa

Instead of Theracus with carry it was the knights with bonding. Once again Brunak/Finn bombed out and were killed really quickly before being able to do anything. I even lost all my order markers in the 2nd round due to them dropping far quicker than I expected. Why do I have such bad luck with Brunak? :P Next the knights went in bringing both Eldgrim and Finn with them and completely tore my opponent up. They took out all three Tagawa, then all three Kozuke, then two of the Izumi, then Kaemon Awa before they finally went down. The number of skulls hitting the table with each roll was absolutely brutal - 4 and 5 skulls were happening regularly. I think I only lost a single one to counterstrike.

Finally the pumped up Ke-Mo-Shi came running in to clean up a squad of ninjas and a lone izumi samurai. I haven't played her before and her d20 rolls were a lot of fun even though none of them succeeded. Unfortunately she only took out one ninja before she died so that didn't work out too well and that was the game.

[markwars]

That's an interesting build kenjib. Too bad Ke-Mo-Shi crapped out on you. :P

I might try this one next...

Jotun - 225
Finn - 80
Thorgrim - 80
Brunak - 110
TOTAL - 495