justjohn's Customs: Desius, The Fallen. New! (08/21)

[justjohn]

HEROSCAPE and all related characters are trademarks of Hasbro. © 2006 Hasbro. All Rights Reserved.

*if for some chance, you get an "X" instead of a picture, just right click "show picture" and it will load.

Customs using Dungeons and Dragons figures:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2756/enginesdp5.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9572/muggarthwj4.jpg

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1113/apeskz2.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4276/myth1ik.jpg

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/6871/magmarfireball7yb.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4995/fireball3ns.jpg

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2373/braxasbrood0nl.jpg

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/6643/gorefext8eh.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8561/mardel5pj.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1428/cephalapoxfz2.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9500/romonoxzc9.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4818/mulupuxej2.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3182/rajakarndd8.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9734/klinlingwt4.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8350/ulnakyp4.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5043/tumtokyl9.jpg

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5305/azukfixed7bx.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4120/sistersdefensiveqw2.jpg

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/3681/sistersoffensive9rh.jpg

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3189/shiggarfraggaruz4.jpg

Customs using StarWars figures:
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6938/ixysn2.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2443/muerteo8.jpg

Customs using DreamBlade figures:

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/267/ichiichikl8.jpg

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8576/graalfw5.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6942/taraniswi9.jpg

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6016/umtokwb6.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5975/theforgely9.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6483/butcherat0.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4659/reyneavb3.jpg

Customs using MageKnight figures:

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/66/grutapulttd0.jpg

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6730/khobroc1vg.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1065/erraticary7.jpg

Her Temperaments:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8397/erratica1du2.jpghttp://img109.imageshack.us/img109/139/erratica2hs6.jpghttp://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7026/erratica3ml5.jpg

And the Temperament card backs:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4315/erraticabacktk7.jpghttp://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4315/erraticabacktk7.jpghttp://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4315/erraticabacktk7.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2225/necroqh7.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8369/ghoulpo1.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5199/unghastze8.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8498/lichlc4.jpg

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2392/handtb0.jpg

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/4927/stixcf3.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/673/thebaronvz6.jpg

Customs that were Prizes, Gifts, and/or Repaints:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/justjohn_heroscape/Desius_Final-1.png

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2951/allinya1.png

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6020/gangoldi7.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5011/netherez2.jpg

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/7711/makakm7.jpg

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7396/titansk9.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8179/dreadgulsfj8.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8412/sacredgraniteguardsmx8.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5880/marobusjs4.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5306/baepinget8.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5274/phyralha8.jpg

http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/7440/normaltactimatoruu0.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6194/1ny3.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2048/2mm5.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7280/3pe6.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6532/4vw8.jpg

[RobWeaver]

This is a neat idea. How do you bring them into play? Do you buy them when you create your army? (In that case, they should have a cost value.) Are they placed as part of terrain? Can they be destroyed by your opponent? When you paint the minis, consider damaging them before painting them: broken weapon, missing leg, bullet nicks - knida like the ruins. Doing some in stone and some in metal colors would be neat too. Then you could age the paint job with a patina.

[Rhydderch]

Hey JustJohn: very cool ideas! I like the way the idols affect all figures under control by one general and can only be used if all figures follow that general. I had the same concerns as RobWeaver especially about the point cost. Since they have life I imagine they are placed on the board as a figure though more easily destroyed than normal since they only have 1 life =P

I imagine some fun scenarios can be made around these idols. Either steal the idol or destroy the idol missions would be fun. Or they could be placed into a dungeon as an item in Grungebob's Dungeonscape. =)

[justjohn]

Hey, thanks for the fb, guys!

I had intended them to be regular units in all respects, aside from their lack of ability to do anything. Does that make sense?

They lack cost since each general has access to these, the only "cost" is that the entire army has to follow the same general.

-jj

[Rhydderch]

I still think a cost of some kind would be better since the idols affect all figures in an army which makes them pretty powerful. Just my 2 cents.

By the way do you have an idol for Einar in the works? He's probably jealous by now and gathering his army to march on your home, ready to demand an idol to call his own =P

[justjohn]

The idol for Einar is up there, it's just a link instead of a thumb for some reason. If you click the link in the middle of the thumbs, you'll find Einar's Idol.

By the way, the Idol's affect ALL units that follow the general, even your opponent's. So you could, in truth, build an army that takes advantage of your enemy's Idol.

-jj

[ChaosChild]

Cool idea.

I think that they should have a cost too. My reasoning:

When drafting armies on the spot, it won't matter. You each choose a different general.

Say you have a prebuilt army (Ullar). Your opponent brings an army that is only Ullar. It doesn't hurt you point wise if you choose not to play with the idol.

Now say you have the same army and your opponent brings an army that is only Utgar. You get a great advantage at no cost for the idol.

[justjohn]

I redid the Idols into a new form-Avatars. They are in the first post.

Enjoy!

-jj

[ultradoug]

I really like how each one matches the "flavor" of the army they follow this is cool. They have slightly difernt mechanics for how long they stay attached and some restirct things when applyed. This is really neat idea. I like it.

[Fallen Templar]

will their be a figure to stand as the idol :?:

[ChaosChild]

I think I understand what you are going for. Does the fig get to act as normal when the avatar is destroyed. If so, you could swap an avatar fig for the chosen's fig when the avatar is destroyed. This way your opponent must decide if he really wants to try to get to the rear of your lines to destroy the avatar and then have to deal with the chosen.

I think this idea might work better than the last. Still a great idea.

[justjohn]

Thanks for the fb guys.

To clarify, let me offer a situation:

You draft Alistar, Avatar of Defiance, and all Jandar squads/heroes.

Before the first round, Alistar's card is replaced with the Avatar's card. Alastir's figure becomes/represents the Avatar. Alastir is no longer Alastir. Whenever the avatar recieves a wound, that card is destroyed (it has 1 life) and Alastir becomes Alastir again. Does that make sense?

-jj

[ChaosChild]

Perfect sense.

So, instead of "That figure becomes the avatar until it receives a wound."

Maybe, "That figure becomes the avatar. When the avatar receives one or more wounds, remove the avatar card for the chosen hero's card. That figure may act as normal."

[justjohn]

Sounds good to me. Thanks for the suggestion, CC!

-jj

[reapersaurus]

no - it doesn;t make sense, to me.

Does the Alistar avatar have any defence, or stats?
If not, not does it move?
If it doesn;t have stats, than obviously you'd only put this on a hero that did not receive Order Markers this turn.

If the Alistair avatar is dealt a wound, does the avatar go away permanently?

And why do you think that these avatars' abilities are worth only 25 points? +2 defense to all your army, is amazingly powerful. Similarly with +3 range, etc. These are dominating powers.

I'd think the only way to use these is not to have any point values - just have these as options whenever you want to play a battle with them included - anyone can choose from them, max of one avatar per army (obviously).
They are kinda like a blessing, to either army.

[justjohn]

That's how they were originally, Reaper. People said they thought they needed point costs, so I redid them. Oh well.

-jj

[Rhydderch]

Hey Justjohn: I like the avatar idea but I can understand why Reaper was confused. I assume you meant the avatar would only have the statistics shown on the card until it took a point of damage at which point it would revert to the original hero.

As a figure the original idol idea probably works better though it would still need a cost as was mentioned before. If you wish to continue with an Avatar mechanic, it might be better to create it as an alternate set of rules since it does not have an actual figure or fit the regular rules for a figure. I would suggest you allow the figure to maintain its original stats and the ability to take turns - that is more like an avatar and less like an idol.

[justjohn]

Finding the middle ground is proving to be difficult.

I like both of the ideas, and I do think that they need a point cost. Is it fair to price them all the same? Is +1 attack equal to +1 movement and +1 defense, costwise, for instance? Thats why I liked the idea of no point cost.

I think I like the idea of the avatars more than the idols, they just seem to have more flavor to me. Maybe it's an idea that just isn't going to translate well into HS.

-jj

[Rhydderch]

Well I'm currently working on an alternate version of the Avatars that I think will work better and fit the theme more nicely as well. Basically it will look something like:

Avatar of Defiance

The Chosen of Jandar - At the start of the game choose a unique Hero you contol who follows Jandar and place this card under the chosen Hero's card. Remove this card if the chosen Hero receives a wound or if any figure you control does not follow Jandar.

Blessing of Defiance - All figures you control receive 2 additional defense dice.

Avatar of Defiance - Whenever the chosen Hero rolls defense dice, add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

So what does this version give you? An actual Avatar. An incarnation of a God or General who walks the battlefield. Unlike the idols, the Avatar is able to move and attack, in addition to bolstering its allies. As the Avatar of Defiance the chosen Hero also receives an additional ability. However if any figure you control does not follow Jandar or if the hero receives a wound, then the Chosen loses its special status.

So in other words if you choose Drake Alexander for your Chosen then he maintains his stats and special abilities AND gains the abilities on the card. I like this idea better since the word Avatar usually refers to a person who is used as a vessel by a more powerful being. The vessel is usually able to move and perform actions as normal, but is much more powerful.

Of course this makes the Avatar cards powerful enough that they could easily unbalance a regular game, so players should agree to use them first. Even though they are played on agreement basis only, I still think they need a high cost since players might choose to play a game in which only one side has an Avatar, in which case the armies need to be balanced.

Anyway let me know what you think of this alternate version of the Avatars. I'll think about other abilities to give the Chosen of each of the other general and also ways the Avatar status is lost. A figure that belongs to another general is an automatic no-no, but I think the wound loss should only apply to Jandar. The other cards should have other ways to cancel the Chosen status for variety =)

[jcb231]

Any power that grants everyone in your army extra attack or defense dice is going to be a bear to balance....point cost will have to be through the roof, regardless of whether or not it goes away after taking one hit or whether or not your opponent has an avatar too.

[justjohn]

New figure, StixStax, posted on first page. Look forward to you comments!

-jj

[justjohn]

Added another new figure, it is in the first post.

Enjoy!

-jj

[Rhydderch]

Cool figures JJ. Vargess is interesting since he can get a decent number of attacks but has low life. Have you playtested him? His abilities are powerful but I can see that you limited them with his low life and defense.

Stixstax is interesting. I have a bard character designed too but need a figure for it =\

Also for Vargess' second ability description, you should change "special ability" to special attack.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1133/stixstaxnormal6ue.jpg
JJ, great concept!

I have a few questions:

all figures are enhanced by Stixstax? Is there a range limit to his cadence? And why do they roll 2 less defense dice?

[justjohn]

The theory behind StixStax is that he is driving everyone (well, melee fighters, atleast) into a killing rage, making them move faster towards their enemies, making their attacks stronger, and making them abandon their need to defend. Does that make any sense, H_E_H?

As is, it affects all figures, which is what I originally wanted it to do, but I came up with a problem with it this morning when I was getting ready- a heavy ranged based army could draft him aswell, and put a hurtin' on melee figures with a lowered defense. This was not my original idea, but I could see it being a problem. Not sure how I should fix it. Maybe just your own figures?

As for Vargess, my wife doesn't like playing with custom figures, so I never get to playtest my creations, unless I playtest them with myself, which I have never actually done =P. Are you leaning towards more expensive, or less expensive, Rhy? I do really like this figure, dunno why, just seems like such a gamble, everything fits.

I will get that wording fixed, btw, thanks for pointing that out!

Thanks for the fb, guys. I appreciate it.

-jj

[LilNewbie]

I like StixStax. What if the 2 less defense was only versus other engaged figures? That way ranged figures don't benefit but the idea still remains the same (enraged attackers fighting each other in melee.)

Newb.

[justjohn]

That could be the answer, Lil. I dunno how that will translate into the text though, I don't want him to be overly wordy. Does that make sense? I mean, there is a lot of blank space on the card for more text, I am just not sure if I could add that in without making it confusing. Very good idea though, Lil. It will probably be the fix.

Updated Wounding Thrash text on Vargess.

-jj

[LilNewbie]

The wording shouldn't be too much. Here is a sample:

CADENCE OF CARNAGE

All figures with Range 1 roll 1 additional attack die when rolling for attack, move 1 additional space and roll 2 less dice when rolling for defense against adjacent attackers.

Not sure but attackers could be replaced with figures.

Cool stuff. That orc drummer figure needed a useful HS card. Nice job.

Newb.

[netherspirit]

Why does it say all figures within range 1? Those would be adjacent figures right? And if so, does a figure that is moving and moves through a space that is adjacent to him get to move one extra space? Or only figures that start their turn adjacent to him?

[justjohn]

With range 1 (ie, melee). Sorry for the confusion.

-jj

[justjohn]

Added a new custom, Blacksmith Lazlo. Enjoy!

-jj

[Grungebob]

My first gut impression of Lazlo is that an added 3 defense to a unit is severely changing things... Am I reading him correctly? You can change the Krav Mag agents to 6 defense? Or change the Samurai to 8 Defense???

[reapersaurus]

hmmmmmm.... Blacksmith Lazlo.
lemme think.

Lazlo? That isnt a Real Genius reference, probably not.

1st off - when choosing figs, I'd always recoommend the cheapest unit possible.
I looked quickly on MK's site but could only find one other Forger that I'm not sure if would be cheaper or easier to acquire than the one you chose from MK Nexus:
http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/Rotating/MKSO/MKSO_041.jpg
This guy's from Sorcery I thinik so might be cheaper/easier to get?

His powers seem very cool, and the wording for the most part seems alright (I'm not sure if it's picture-perfect syntax, but other people are a bit better at that than me anyway). I would capitalise Armor Markers..... and specify whether you can put armor on a fig that is larger than Large - currently it only mentions Large.

As for his power, balancing-wise - the only problem with it is that it unduly benefits some units over others, and there may well be a problem with it in certain armies.

For example, he REALLY helps out the Izumi Samurai and the Sentinels. The Seninels are printed as Medium, tho I don't know if they were errata'd to be Large or not.
And can you imagine Vharos with 3 more defense dice, and his insane life,m AND counterstrike? That alone would be unbalancing with this power. I hate it when otherwise-great powers are crippled in balance/cost simply because of a couple abilities. Other than the Counterstrike, it is another example of why I dislike the "Count as Two" abilities of Shields of Valor and Deadly Strike - it makes it basically impossible to properly cost any unit that gives a benefit to defense or attack, without unduly benefitting those units.

The ONLY way I've found to make attack-or-defense-boosting abilities like this viable is to put an artificial restriction on them:
Make the defense dice that his armor grants be not modifiable by any other ability, or be used for Counterstriking.
As I remember, the +2 defense bonus that I suggested for a "corrected" Thorgrim included a caveat These dice cannot be used with any Counterstrike abilities and can not be modified (like with Shields of Valor).

[justjohn]

You guys both have very valid points, and one of the reasons I was considering limiting this guy to 2 armor markers, and also limiting his ability for use on heroes (medium and large, only). I did consider charos and the other baddies with already high defense, that is why I limited it to small, medium, large. KMA came to mind after I made them, as did the Sentinels. I like your idea, Reaper, but it seems like it would make the wording too clunky on the card.

I don't think lowering the movement even more is the answer.

Is the idea totally defunkt? If I limit him to just heroes, could his price be lowered?

See why I needed help?

I like the idea, but just am unsure if we need another Rae, although this guy is somewhat different.

Thanks for the feed back guys.

-jj

[skyknight]

I would definitely raise him up a few points, he is pretty tough, much better than Raelin!

[justjohn]

I don't think he's *better* than Raelin. Raelin is much better in many respects. I tried to make him as limiting as possible. Basically, you can only use him successfully the first couple of turns, since he has to be in your starting zone, and the figure(s) he suits up have to be adjacent to him. I mean, you could hold out and wait to use his ability. True, he is a little bit tougher stat wise, but he doesn't move as far or fly. On the flip side of this, his bonus lasts even when he doesn't.

Working on reworking the abilty.

I really don't want to up this guys points, and I don't want him to make other great units broken- I think I am just going to have limit his ability to heroes only.

Thanks for the fb SK!

[Grungebob]

hmmmmmm.... Blacksmith Lazlo.
lemme think.

Lazlo? That isnt a Real Genius reference, probably not.

1st off - when choosing figs, I'd always recoommend the cheapest unit possible.
I looked quickly on MK's site but could only find one other Forger that I'm not sure if would be cheaper or easier to acquire than the one you chose from MK Nexus:
http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/Rotating/MKSO/MKSO_041.jpg
This guy's from Sorcery I thinik so might be cheaper/easier to get?

His powers seem very cool, and the wording for the most part seems alright (I'm not sure if it's picture-perfect syntax, but other people are a bit better at that than me anyway). I would capitalise Armor Markers..... and specify whether you can put armor on a fig that is larger than Large - currently it only mentions Large.

As for his power, balancing-wise - the only problem with it is that it unduly benefits some units over others, and there may well be a problem with it in certain armies.

For example, he REALLY helps out the Izumi Samurai and the Sentinels. The Seninels are printed as Medium, tho I don't know if they were errata'd to be Large or not.
And can you imagine Vharos with 3 more defense dice, and his insane life,m AND counterstrike? That alone would be unbalancing with this power. I hate it when otherwise-great powers are crippled in balance/cost simply because of a couple abilities. Other than the Counterstrike, it is another example of why I dislike the "Count as Two" abilities of Shields of Valor and Deadly Strike - it makes it basically impossible to properly cost any unit that gives a benefit to defense or attack, without unduly benefitting those units.

The ONLY way I've found to make attack-or-defense-boosting abilities like this viable is to put an artificial restriction on them:
Make the defense dice that his armor grants be not modifiable by any other ability, or be used for Counterstriking.
As I remember, the +2 defense bonus that I suggested for a "corrected" Thorgrim included a caveat These dice cannot be used with any Counterstrike abilities and can not be modified (like with Shields of Valor).You mention sentinals but I did not see on the card where he can boost commons. Can he boost commons Justjohn?

[justjohn]

No he cannot. He could in the very first wording of it, before I actually posted the card. It was too confusing to include commons. There is an updated version of him being upped now.


*just saw a typo... upping ANOTHER new one as we speak, as well as an updated StixStax.

-jj

[Grungebob]

Here's a thought... We are all doing allot of these markers lately!! They are featured now in so many customs. Does Morsbane's Negate cancel out an effect caused by a marker?

[reapersaurus]

Looks fixed to me!
Limiting it to medium or large heroes fixes the Sentinels, Krav Maga, Izumi, and Charos problematic effects.

Looks like a good unit-
Another solid justjohn creation!

[reapersaurus]

Here's a thought... We are all doing allot of these markers lately!! They are featured now in so many customs. Does Morsbane's Negate cancel out an effect caused by a marker?Good question - it's these kinds of custom ability interactions/rules-interpretations that we have to as a community determine what we want (since we're the only rules committe that will help clarify customs ability rules interactions).

[Grungebob]

I would say that they are negated. But there would need to be a consensus I s'pose.

[skyknight]

I would say so as well

[reapersaurus]

Well, aren't there 2 effects that need ruled on?

1) Does Morsbane negating a Counter-using unit also negate the counters that are currently on other units?
and
2) Does Morsbane negating a unit also negate a counter that is on that unit from a non-negated counter-using unit?

[ChaosChild]

I would say Morsbane would negate the counters bonus only if he negated the counter's origin. The counter itself is not an ability, so would not get negated if, in this case, the armor counter is on another figs card. The counters bonus would get negated if, in this case, Lazlo recieved a negation counter. That would negate the bonus of any counters put on other cards and prevents Lazlo from using his ability again.

The question is do you remove any placed counters if Lazlo is negated and if Lazlo is destroyed is the negation counter on him still in effect?

[Fallen Templar]

I say raise his points a good 20 points, he outdoes raelin by a good run

[justjohn]

I have to agree, if Mors negates a "host"'s ability, all "slave" figures lose the benefits as well.

[justjohn]

Another new figure(s) posted in first post.

Enjoy!

-jj

[Grungebob]

Another new figure(s) posted in first post.

Enjoy!

-jjWow!! JJ, those are some of your best yet. I really like the combination of powers and they seem powerful enough to rate the 150 points.Tyhey really need to be immune to the lava fields and molten lava maybe, but these guys look very playable at first glance.. My compliments as the wording must have been challenging.

[justjohn]

Thanks GB. I thought about the lava res, but there just wasn't room on the card. I guess there is room to put it on the Kilnlings, I mean, they are fire after all.

Would that affect the point cost, ya think?

Yeah, wording was somewhat tricky, wasn't sure how people would respond to it.


Thanks for the feedback.

-jj

[ChaosChild]

I like the "master", "slave" relationship with this guy. I am trying a similar thing with a necromancer and zombies but, it hasn't worked out right yet.

If you want a little extra space, try removing "the Furnace" from Rajakarn's name in the text. The official cards do that too (ex. "the Kyrie Warrior").

[Grungebob]

I don't think it would affect the points cost JJ

[justjohn]

Changed some stuff on the Kilnlings and Rajakarn.

-jj

[justjohn]

Made an Alexander The Great custom using Parmenio.

Eager to hear feedback on this one.

Thanks for stopping by!

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Boy I love the Conquer Concept! Interesting stuff as always, JustJohn.

[reapersaurus]

wow - uh, gotta say I'm not a fan of this one, jj. :( and you know I'm usually a big fan.

I have read and reread Command, and I don't understand the benefit.
So you gave Alexander a hindrance power? Any time he does lots of damage, the defender can choose to go back to start and only take 1?
Does this approximate his commanding nature? I don;t follow that translation into HS rules.... :(

And realize that sometimes, it is beneficial for a defender to send his unit back to start positions.

As for Conquer - I just find it way too random and map-specific of ability.
Many mapos, he'll have 4 terrain markers before he ever encounters an enemy, no?

[justjohn]

No sweat man, even Babe didn't hit a homer every bat.

Let me see if I can explain my reasoning...

The Command end of it was Alexander allowing defeated generals to "stay in power" as it was. They aren't killed outright, just sent back home, limping. Unless they thought they could make a stand. Does that make sense. It is sort of a hinderence, yeah, because as you said, he can rack up some extra attacks fast on some boards. Other boards, it may take some time to get his attacks up.

I doubt this sways your opinion much, if at all, but that was my reasoning behind it. They are both kindof sketchy abilities, I know, took a gamble this time.

-jj

[ChaosChild]

I agree, cool sculpt, lousy abilities.

After reading your reasoning behind the Command ability, it sounds pretty cool. I definately think it could be a problem though. The opposing hero stands there and pounds on Alexander, then leaves for his start zone when he would have 1 life left. Kelda is there waiting for him.


Conquer
When Alexander stops on terrain that he has not previously stopped on this game, place a Conquer Marker on this card. When attacking, roll one additional die for each Conquer Marker on this card. A maximum of 4 Conquer Markers may be placed on this card.

4 markers might be one too powerful.

[justjohn]

Changed the wording on Conquer. Thanks Chaos. I dunno about 4 being too many, I guess it really depends on the board? I'm not sure.

I made Command... a little different.

Thanks for the feedback.

-jj

[reapersaurus]

I forget - did you not want to add your other, old cards in to this thread, jj?
Cause I'm making a link from the Halls of Valhalla thread (and your inducted card there, Azuk Sharptooth) over to this thread, but I don't see your older cards in here..... :?:

[Rhydderch]

Hrm. I have to agree with Reaper on the Conquer ability. It does not make much sense to me and leaves too many possibilities open. For instance in a game where you need to retrieve a glyph, could you not grab the glyph then attack your own hero with Alexander to automatically send him to your start zone?

I like the conquer ability though I'm not sure it really fits Alexander the Great. Maybe a nature elemental who draws its strength from the earth and its various terrain would be a better fit.

Also does Alexander receive a Conquer Marker every time he finishes his move on a different terrain piece or whenever he steps on a new terrain space. I expect you meant whenever he finishes his move since the other version would be somewhat unbalanced. Maybe you could clarify it:

Whenever Alexander the Great ends his turn on a terrain space he has not previously ended his turn on, place a conquer marker on this card. When attacking, Alexander the Great receives one additional die for each conquer marker on this card. A maximum of 4 conquer markers may be placed on this card.

It also weakens the ability a little bit since he does not gain the bonus until the next turn. It takes time for a general to reap the benefits of a conquest, after all =)

[justjohn]

I lost all of my cards that were posted in this thread in a reboot I did this morning, so it will be a minute or 2 before I get around to fixing Alexander.

As far as the suggestions, yes, I think it needs to be an enemy only ability, I just didn't include the wording. And the conquer, I did intend for it to be end space, not just spaces traversed during a turn. Thank you for pointing those out, Ry.

Reap, my Azuk card is on my jumpdrive. I've been meaning to remake it so that it looks good enough to be in the halls, just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll have a new version (same stats/abilities) up in a day or so, lemme recoup from this reboot and I'll have it up. The old card just looks sooo bad compared to the other inductees.

Thanks guys.

-jj

[reapersaurus]

I would LOVE to see a reworked Azuk card - I am trying to acquire that mini, have been for a long time - hopefully my search for a cheap Fiendish TRex is almost at an end.

[Rhydderch]

I've been looking for the TRex too! Its supposed to be an uncommon but I never picked one up when I bought the giant packs. Go figure I get a huge Gold Dragon which I have not been able to use but I do not get the dinosaur!

If you check ebay Reaper they sometimes go for 2-5 dollars. I would buy one that way but I do not have a credit card atm.

[justjohn]

Added an updated version of Azuk Sharptooth.

Enjoy!

-jj

[Grungebob]

Cool. I updated the Halls display thread.

[Rhydderch]

Sweet! Now I not only know who designed Azuk (I thought it was Turtleboy for a long time) but I have an updated card too! Thanks JJ!

[reapersaurus]

huh?
That's kinda weird - how would you have ever seen Azuk (since it wasn't in a creator thread for a LONG long time) if the only way it was seen since .net days was in the Halls of Valhalla, where I credited justjohn on it.... :?:

jj- I dig the reworked card. I want to get this printed professionally and added to my games. I'm gonna be picking up a Fiendish Trex for $3 finally.

[Turtleboy]

Awsome stuff still JJ, but on Azurk , you have his race as "Beast" and Class as "Dinosaur". Might wanna fix that so the orcs can use him.

[Turtleboy]

Sweet! Now I not only know who designed Azuk (I thought it was Turtleboy for a long time) but I have an updated card too! Thanks JJ!


Ha i never made a good card in my life. Silly Birdman. :wink:

[Rhydderch]

huh?
That's kinda weird - how would you have ever seen Azuk (since it wasn't in a creator thread for a LONG long time) if the only way it was seen since .net days was in the Halls of Valhalla, where I credited justjohn on it.... :?:

LOL! Maybe because I downloaded it from .NET a long time ago? =P

I've been around the community a lot longer than you realize: I joined .NET around Dec 2004 or Jan 2005 - even before Aratak had begun to release his custom cards.

And I've made custom cards since before I joined .NET though most of my earliest works were designed for HeroQuest so I never bothered to make official cards for them.

So yah I was there in the infancy of the HS community and witnessed all those fun arguments between you and Aratak as well =P I was just a lurker and never took the time to post!

Anyway to return the discussion to Azuk here is a fun blast from the past: its the old 125 point version of Azuk!!

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10052/Azuk.jpg

[reapersaurus]

Cool! I forget if I kept that version on my HD.
I never knew you went so far back!
You came outta nowhere during that team contest, with such high quality and well-conceived cards, that I think I even mentioned back then "Are you sure you haven't done anything before?" ;)

You may even remember what Magic card I told justjohn that Azuk's abilities reminded me of (which I still haven't worked into a HS custom yet). ;)

[jcb231]

Made an Alexander The Great custom using Parmenio.

Eager to hear feedback on this one.

Thanks for stopping by!

So is "Conquer" different TYPES of terrain? Like lava, road, water, etc? I don't think the wording is really clear.

But whatever it is, I think it's overpowered by a long shot. And the other power is just a huge boost to your opponent. I would LOVE for someone to draft this guy against me.

[jcb231]

Awsome stuff still JJ, but on Azurk , you have his race as "Beast" and Class as "Dinosaur". Might wanna fix that so the orcs can use him.

Good call.

[jcb231]

I would LOVE to see a reworked Azuk card - I am trying to acquire that mini, have been for a long time - hopefully my search for a cheap Fiendish TRex is almost at an end.

If anyone wants one, I may be willing to sell mine. I'm using it for a D&D conversion project but if the price is right I'll part with it. There are other large D&D figures I want more and I could be persuaded to trade, possibly.

[Fallen Templar]

what happaned to aratak anyway

[Fallen Templar]

Reaper www.everythingmageknight.com I think had Fiendish T-rex or www.strikezoneonline.com you can get a lot of D&D cheap from this site

[reapersaurus]

Reaper www.everythingmageknight.com I think had Fiendish T-rex or www.strikezoneonline.com you can get a lot of D&D cheap from this site$9.99 and $5.99
I've had people quote $2 or $3 for the uncommon Huge figures before, but just never got a deal going.
There's a guy I'm talking to right now that'll sell one for $3 - I'll be adding many other figs to the purchase soon, hopefully.

aratak popped back up a few months ago, doing OK it seemed.
He hasn't posted since. :shrug:

And why would his class have to be "fixed"?
He is a Dinosaur - dinosaurs are beasts (at least this one is).
Therefore, he can bond just fine with the Arrow Gruts.
He isn;t gonna be an Orc Champion, that's for sure. :D

[Rhydderch]

Reaper I think he means that Beast and Dragon need to be switched on the current card. IE Mimring's card reads:

*Dragon
Unique Hero
*Beast
Ferocious

But Azuk reads:

*Beast
Unique Hero
*Dinosaur
Ferocious

In other words it lists Azuk's race as Beast and type as Dinosaur but based on the card for Mimring and other beasts, that should be switched.

[justjohn]

I actually changed it because I thought I had it wrong. I'll get it switch around.

But logically, I think it is better the way I have it now, versus how it "should" be.

Beast is all encompassing, Dinosaur is a specific kind of beast. Does my thinking make any sense (regardless if it is right or wrong)?

Either way, he's still a beast, so bonding still works.

And wow Ry, take that hideous think to the recycle bin. Yeesh, that thing was hideous.

-jj

[Turtleboy]

I see what your trying to do JJ, but then everyone in Heroscape would be Huminod, and then "Human", "Elf" etc.

Not to mention he cant bond with the arrow gruts.

Its not my card so leave it if you want, im just thinking of the bonding.

[jcb231]

I still agree with Turtleboy. For overall consistancy, Beast and Dinosaur should be swtiched. If you're not trying to make something that seems official, don't bother, but if you're trying to make this fit in the HS world, which it seems you are, switch them.

[reapersaurus]

oh - i see now.
Of course, make it Dinosaur, then Beast lower. That's standard.
My Hunting Raptors are that way (except they're Beasts) :shrug:

[Rhydderch]

I actually changed it because I thought I had it wrong. I'll get it switch around.

But logically, I think it is better the way I have it now, versus how it "should" be.

Beast is all encompassing, Dinosaur is a specific kind of beast. Does my thinking make any sense (regardless if it is right or wrong)?

Either way, he's still a beast, so bonding still works.

And wow Ry, take that hideous think to the recycle bin. Yeesh, that thing was hideous.

-jj

LoL! Its a piece of history JJ! Brings back good memories of .NET.

And as for the Beast vs Dinosaur I can see your point. Beast and Dinosaur are both related to the race of the figure, and neither really fits the class category. Still thats what the designers picked so most of us use that standard just to stay consistent with the other cards.

[shakey_snake]

Yeah, and Denrick is a knight!

[reapersaurus]

So I finally got around to making a better looking (I hope) card for one of my old creations that is in the halls.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4287/azuk9sv.jpg

I did a touch up on the wording as well. Hope it is to everyone's satisfaction.justjohn - could you please tweak the Azuk card one last time?
In the last sentence of the first ability, the "Ignore" is broken up between lines, when I think if it started out the next line, it wouldn;t take up any more space and would look better/cleaner.

Also if you think the Dinosaur and Beast should be standard....

And I don't know, since it works OK without it, but you may want to use "eliminated" instead of "destroyed", as standard wording, but that's not as important as the other 2, I'd think. :?:

Thanks!

P.s> Where is your Armadon card? That used the Bulette figure? I still have it at home....

[justjohn]

Fixed all the problems with Azuk (I hope)

In first post.

-jj

[reapersaurus]

man, he's beautiful. :)
Just so much pent-up rage embodied there in that unit. :thumbsup:

I've got this card now, and want to get it professionally printed for gameplay. I'm afraid I may be too strong with this guy in an orc army (bonding with Arrow Gruts, right?) - I hope playtesting can determine that or not. I'm worried about his 7 attack (8 with even 1 boost) on a good roll, 10 or more on a great roll.

I hope his big drawback (which I'd try to manage in play) can make him work at this 110 point cost.

[justjohn]

Added a new unit, Sisters of the Sai, on the first page. Enjoy!

-jj

[reapersaurus]

hmm.

I thought with the offensive and defensive shift, they were going to get different stats from it.

But both sides have 3 attack and 3 defense. :?:

On the defensive side, you only give them 1 additional defense. Typically, 1 attack die is quasi-equivalent to 2 defense dice (Taelord vs Raelin, active vs passive powers).

I love the idea of combat-viable femal squad - did you see my Fan Dancer card this week?
She's similar in theme, i think - I went with an ability where she could choose to use her fan in offensive, or dfefensive way each turn and marked with a Marker, instead of flipping.... :shrug:

[justjohn]

I thought about going 2/4 4/2, but went against it, figured the different themed abilities for each stance would be sufficient. 2 defense die per eliminated figure seems like a lot, though.

I must have missed your fan dancer, sounds interesting =/ I'll go look at that right now.

[Widigo]

the sisters all look the same, bend some arms or something.

[justjohn]

New Unit on first page, enjoy!

[shakey_snake]

hum. Interesting.

It's kinda like they're an order marker decoy.
And you have to move Seduma apparently (no choice in the matter)?

[Grungebob]

Great looking minis. SWOT: I think these guys are undercosted a bit. They can essentially teleport Sudema automatically similar to Saylind but without the flakey D20 roll? Correct? Then they get to attack with her? and more effectively to boot? This is very powerful unit if I am reading it correctly.

And because I get tired of constantly having to refer back to your first page:

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/776/guardsagain7dc.jpg

[reapersaurus]

Here is Annerios Royal Guard for comparison:
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Sudemas_Royal_Guard_Rev_4.JPG
(I used LordRaidor's awesome Undead category to find them pretty quick!) :thumbsup:

As for these guys, for some reason I like them a lot better than Annerios' version. Annerios' version worked off of THROWING the opponent nearer Sudema, which I never thought clearly benefited Sudema.

In fact, I think the reason I like this version of the Sudema's Royal Guard (other than the better figures chosen) is because it is exactly the ability that I suggested back on Annerios' HQ customs thread, IIRC. :lol:

Giving Sudema a +1 for each Royal Guard nearby seems to be a pretty obvious benefit, apparently. I think I called the ability Mummy Rot.

I like them, and don't see why they'd be overpowered at 50 points, only 2-figures, and not even giving full bonding. The move teleport and choice of using Sudema's Stare are strategic and not overpowering.

In fact, I like the way all these 3 abilities interact between each other to give the unit its utility. I do agree that the teleport shouldn't be mandatory. Maybe.

And you may want to bump the Guardsmen's attacks up, otherwise there'd be no reason to ever use it in comparison to Sudema's. They should be 4 minimum (look at Dumetef Guard for comparison).

I would really like to hear some playtesting results from this - they look like a great addition to boost a sub-standard weak official figure and may make her more playable, and more importantly, more thematic and FUN.

[truth]

Totally digging it!

[Grungebob]

they look like a great addition to boost a sub-standard weak official figure and may make her more playable, and more importantly, more thematic and FUN. Sudema is not substandard at all. She is a very good unit in play but I don't think very many players draft her. Whenever they do they seem surprised at her ability.

Having a free teleport to anywhere these guys are and the ability to use Sudema's power with a large amount of bonuses is powerful. The tricky aspects of using these powers is what makes the points so hard to determine. The fact that they can't use her stare on the turn that they sommon her is the biggest deal that helps the balance. Definitely a play first decide points and play again type unit. It should be easy for me to test them since I have so many skeleton figs anyway. There are also some usable MK skellies that would work well.

[reapersaurus]

Sudema is not substandard at all.

The fact that they can't use her stare on the turn that they sommon her is the biggest deal that helps the balance.Yes, I think she is.
I think she is because the majority of players (from my reading of the boards) think she doesn't do her points worth of damage, on average.

And since Braxas came out, she's obviously underpowered in comparsion.

And I'd guess that the Royal Guard was meant to be able to use her Stare in the same turn. Just a guess.
Just change the word "turn" to "move" in the first ability.

[Grungebob]

The fact that they can't use her stare in the same turn that they summon her is the saving grace here. It makes them tricky to use and keeps the points down. Comparing Sudema to Braxas is apples and oranges here. Braxas is far more expensive pointwise. for a 140 points you get a more affordable Braxas if anything. That is what's "obvious". But like I said in the Sudema thread, if you are not a player who can manage their luck then you might not want to take units like Sudem OR Braxas.

by managing the luck, I mean there are some players that simply cannot stand to use figures that have these D20 rolls that are so influential. Reaper you complain about the DW series as well. They are great when they don't let you down, but when they do, they are suddenly the worst unit on the planet. I understand, and have been burned myself in a couple of games, but set em up and play again, it is all good. I'm sure that if people play Sudema regularly, she will pay off in the long run.

[justjohn]

Thanks for all the FB guys.

I'm actually going to a big game store this week (I hope) and try to pick these guys up, get them painted, and play test them. My wife likes Sudema, so maybe she'll let us playtest them.

I wanted their attacks to be a little bit low, as their main benefit is getting to use Stare.

I don't really see her teleporting too much, since she has to move when the Guard moves, so she will constantly be with a guard.

I do feel Sudema is subpar, but I think she is such a cool idea, I wanted to give her some useable support, that didn't totally break her ability, and made her more viable in my eyes. In my opinion, Deadeye is a far superior choice to Sudema, she just costs do damn much on her own, and dead eye does basically the same thing, all on a teensy bit smaller frame than sudema, with a little bit lower chance to kill, but for a fraction of the points.

I guess playtesting will be the only way to find out how well these guys are priced. I think they are priced fairly well, since they have a little bit of staying power, but are totally wiped out if their queen dies, all of that, and there are only 2 per squad. I can't see myself drafting/using them if they costed much more.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, and sorry to Annerios, for not knowing it was he, and not HEH who made the previous guards.

[Karkadinn]

Sidestepping the 'Does Sudema need a power boost or not?' debate for the moment, I'd just like to say that I really like the Bow To Sudema ability. The name is cute and thematic, and the ability fits a nice 'bargain Jotun' niche.

[justjohn]

Made some changes to the Sisters of the Sai, on the first page.

-jj

[reapersaurus]

I really like them now! Seriously - looking them over again, I think now they'd be great on the table! :thumbsup:

Couple more thoughts:
* Is there any way to vary their poses on the card and targetting pic? Maybe flip the middle one, mirrored, to get a slightly-different look? I know that wouldn;t be what it's like irl, but that doesn;t matter as long as the fig's targetting locations stays the same (which it would, reversed or not).

* What about making the Defense side 2 attack and 5 defense?
I know it's not a perfect mirror, but you shouldn;t be limiting yourself to a simple numbers-mirror - it should be a powers-mirror. And 2 attack dice are woirth 3 defense dice, in Herocape.
So if the sisters lose 2 attack dice when shifting to defensive, they should gain 3 defense dice.
Plus, this makes them perfectly tough to take out the last one - you're right - giving them 2 defense dice when 1 sister is eliminated would be too much, ending in 8 dice.
But when they start with 5, they get to 6, then to 7 on the last, which feels perfect to me, since she'd have little attack but be tough to take down, unless a special attack person came up.

[justjohn]

That seems reasonable. I'll make the changes tonight.

[Doc_Savage]

I really like how the sisters turned out. Now to check Ebay... and other sources for female ninja / monks......

The bodyguards... I would think that they would follow Sudema around, not the other way.... Just sees wrong thematically. Or just give them Undead Queen Bonding.

As does Stare, My Queen. I think that Sudema should get a +1 for each adjacent guard instead of them taking over her power.

[justjohn]

The idea I had for the Royal Guard: Guards move up, securing a safe place for their queen, then when the guards have someone pinned down, that is the optimal time for the queen to use her ability. As Sudema is now, she can't do that, so the abilities had to be put on another card. It's almost as if the guards and Sudema work together as a single unit, at least that's the way I see it. I guess they can be looked at through different perspectives.

Oh, and I'm considering remaking the guards using these figures:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9579/undying0gu.jpg
They are undying guards from D&D, and they are like 25 cents a pop.

Let me know how the monks work out for you, I'm getting ready to order some for myself.

[Grungebob]

These are really really small. I have some.

[justjohn]

Man, thanks for telling me that GB, do you know if these guys would be big enough/any bigger:
http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/9950/skeletallegionnaire6jw.png

Thanks for the heads up GB.

Side note, do you know the exact MM of heroscape bases? Just the regular single base ones. I looked and couldn't find it anywhere.

[Grungebob]

No your D&D miniatures skelletons will not work. Too small. Try these guys from Dwarven Forge:

http://www.dwarvenforge.com/store/product.php?productid=16266&cat=264&page=1

On sale now for $5 for all three. I have these and they are comparable in size and are prepainted.

[justjohn]

Thanks for that GB. So I'm guessing that the Sisters would be pretty small as well, since they are humans from D&D. That sucks.

I have these in mind for stand-ins:
http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/2h/gamingetc.safeshopper.com/images/b90oc429.jpg But I would need to change their names to Sisters of the Staff, or something. Staves can be used defensively as well, so that still sort of works.

or

http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/2h/gamingetc.safeshopper.com/images/br0ipban.jpg I don;t know what the sword she's holding looks like, so they may need a name changes as well. They do look somewhat ninja-ish, so still within the general theme of the unit.

[justjohn]

Posted 2 new customs on first page. Enjoy!

[Grungebob]

Thanks for that GB. So I'm guessing that the Sisters would be pretty small as well, since they are humans from D&D. That sucks.

I have these in mind for stand-ins:

But I would need to change their names to Sisters of the Staff, or something. Staves can be used defensively as well, so that still sort of works.

or

I don;t know what the sword she's holding looks like, so they may need a name changes as well. They do look somewhat ninja-ish, so still within the general theme of the unit.There's also a solonavi chick that comes in two poses that would work well.

[Grungebob]

Initiates of Gore:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2365/normalinitiates6kl.jpg

Mezalin:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5946/normalmezalin5sc.jpg

Again I am posting these in the most current page for ease of discussion. I love em. I would play these. The use of theme and continuity is good. I love the figures chosen and have had my eye on these for a while. I do think they are a little too powerful together though. I mean you automatically get to summon another back into play just by using a blood token which you will be able to regenerate fairly easily. Maybe give it a D20 roll or something.

[netherspirit]

That blood magic ability seems familar....hmmmm :)

Very nice. I have to agree with GB though, they might be too powerful together. Reviving figures is a pretty powerful ability. Especially if its really easy to do. Maybe it should either be more blood counters, or require a D20 roll. Maybe if you made it 2-3 counters and instead of attacking? I think it could also use a different name, the ability that is. Blood out sounds kinda....eh....I dunno....

So the Initiates roll 3 total extra attack dice from height?

I definately like the fact that the Initiates can bond and give blood counters to my priestess. A pretty potent 300 point army with my priestess, your priest and the initiates :) Like GB said, nice choice of figures.

[Grungebob]

So the Initiates roll 3 total extra attack dice from height?

I think he meant that you roll one more dice than you normally would with height advantage, but he just worded it funny.

[justjohn]

I agree with you guys. Sorry about the corny name, had it as a test name and didn't realize I hadn't changed it.

http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/6770/normalmezalin1uc.jpg

He should be able to gain markers fairly quickly between his decent attack and the initiates.

And they get 5 attack when attacking with height. Copied the ability exactly from Microcorp, just changed "an additional" to "2 additional."

Thanks for the fb guys.

[Grungebob]

Wow quick and easy fixes!! I'm liking your style JJ!!!

[reapersaurus]

I like these quite a bit. The most intruiging aspect of these, jj, is that you took someone else's established Blood Magic (netherspirit's Haether) and made a squad and hero to go along with it.
That is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while, for customs creators to enhance another custom creator's works.

(So when is anyone else gonna make another Concealed Card unit? ;) )

When I looked at the Iniatiates of Gore, I saw the whole card EXCEPT the point cost.
I thought about it, and said to myself " Eh - they're about as strong as a cross between the Knights of Weston and Anubian Wolves" - let's say around 70 points.
I was surprised to see them at 100, with only 3 defense. I'd think no more than 80.

Mezalin seems about right at 100 points. Except for the big boost/power of getting free squad figs when using a Blood Counter.
I like that he has more likelihood of actually being able to get blood counters, since he has enough attack to hurt someone, and enough defense to survive a bit in melee (with average units).

The wording should be cleaned up a bit.
Look at and copy the text for the (forgot the name) the Water Agents.

Also, look at nether's newest wording for the Blood Magic ability, and how it allows them to add one Blood Marker for every Wound dealt. Your wording only allows them to add one Wound, even if they dealt 3 wounds in an attack.

I LOVE this theme!
Themeatic customs, who's abilities tie into this theme and wok in HS - what a good trend! :thumbsup:

[justjohn]

Thanks. I'm really just trying to get stuff fine tuned. I have 39 figures in the mail on their way to me, and I want them to be as perfect for testing as they can be.

I really want to work on the pricing for Rajakarn, I think he is too expensive as is, or his special needs to be a little bit more powerful.

Anywho, thanks.

[justjohn]

Maybe I'll bump their defense to 4?

I thought nether had changed haether's wording, but I didn't notice it when I was making these, Mezalin will have his wording changed again, as well. Easy fixes.

[Grungebob]

I agree with Reaper's assessments as well. Good feedback Reaper!!

[justjohn]

Here are "fixed" versions:
Initiates of Gore:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9928/normalinitiates0it.jpg

Mezalin:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9886/normalmezalin8gy.jpg

these can also be found on the first page.

As a side note, I got 6 initiates, Mezalin, and Haether from the same ebay store, +1 additional figure, for 6 dollars, shipping included.

[justjohn]

Here is another new one:

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/5226/cephalapox1sl.jpg

Details about this critter can be found at the very top of the first page of this thread, including my logic behind this confusing critter.

Enjoy!

[netherspirit]

Just pumping out the customs huh?

This one is definately a cool idea.

For the Burrow ability I would just say something like this, "When moving, Tentacles ignore the effects of all terrain, including elevation."

Or something like that, because what exactly constitutes "normal" terrain.

[justjohn]

Yeah, my wife gave me the green light to order some figures that I've always wanted to make stuff for. So I'm trying to get all of the customs up that I'm making for these figures, so that by the time I get them, they'll be ready for us to play with.

I'm really excited about my beast army I'm working on. Squads of War Apes, Fiendish Minotaur unique hero, and Fiendish Girrilian (sp?) Common heroes. So excited, lol. I'll post those up once I get some more solid feedback on Cephalapox, and rework/repost Rajakarn.

On top of getting Haether, Mezalin, and Initiate figures (really excited about these). For about 40 bucks, plus some change for buying good paper, We'll have way more than an expansion's worth of new figures to use.

I agree about the wording for burrow, I'll get that changed in a few.

Thanks for the feedback ns.

[reapersaurus]

WOW!
I mean WOW!

What a creative concept for a custom - this has to be the newest concept for a custom unit in almost a year! It is underground, untouchable, except its tentacles. Wild!
I would never have imagined that, since if I made a custom off this great-looking WotDQ Huge mini, it would be a straight simulation of the Purple Worm, since I think that's a great D&D monster in its own right.

This reminds me so much of the classic B movie "Tremors" - don't tell me you weren't influenced by that movie. ;)

And if that's the case, you owe it to the original material to get "Graboid" in there somewhere - maybe instead of "Squiggid" :thumbsup:

As for the card -
Subteranean's misspelled.
You may want to word it "Each tentacle is treated as one Hero" or something that makes it clearer.
Damn! I like this Hero.
You may want to rethink the Putrid Carcass - since I think these guys will take up at least 2 spaces each, that would block off - what? - 12 spaces per fig? 24 spaces total or something of the board? That's a bit much.

But there are alternatives - first, I LOVE that you are the only other designer I know of to right rules that have you leave the carcasses on the battlefield. By not allowing figures entry to those spaces, it does solve the problem of what happens once they're there. But are they on their side?

And another way instead of all adjacent spaces be unaccessible, make it be a hazard - they can't go in the 2 spaces the Tentacles take up, but if they are adjacent, each figure loses 2 or 3 defense dice. This would make it more strategic, where if someone wants to go next to them really bad, it harms their effectiveness (maybe make it lose 1 attack die and 1 defense die) and those spaces could even be used to throw opponents in (Jotun and Colossor).

And just FYI - you know there's a great squad by Doc Savage that uses the Fiendish Girralon?
I should be getting some of these Purple Worms with the cases of WotDG I'm hoping to buy, since they are "only" uncommon.

I REALLY think these are strong - this hero is so creative, I don;t think I could bring myself to make a Purple Worm custom now, even if I had a good idea (Burrowing already being one of the abilities that was going to be on there).

[justjohn]

Thanks for the Fb, reaper. Figured you were either gonna absolutely love this one, or hate it.

I have some work to do with them, I know, and your suggestions will probably be the solution. Can't believe I misspelled that, I will fix it.

As for Doc's Migoi, they're great, I am just going a different direction with them.

I'm leaving the house for a bit, this will be worked on later.

[skyknight]

Great Custom JustJohn, Very nicely done,solid custom all around. Definitely a keeper.

[reapersaurus]

I demand you call them Graboids. :D

http://www.roberthood.net/daikaiju-antho/contributors/images/tremors.jpg

http://www.trashcity.org/BLITZ/BLIT0908.JPG

http://livingcorpse.com/images_poster/tremors.jpg

:D

[Karkadinn]

I strongly recommend ditching Putrid Carcass. It could easily break almost any scenario.

[reapersaurus]

he could always just suggest people not use the custom in any hex-sensitive scenario?
Of course, what if there is a glyph the Graboid ( ;) ) is on?

[justjohn]

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/5226/cephalapox1sl.jpg

So there's the updated version. Spelling stuff fixed, as well as Putrid Corpse has been touched up a bit. Hopefully that qwells any worry about them messing up scenerios.

Sorry to be a sad face, reap. I have seen tremors, but didn't really have them in mind when I made them.

I wish that I knew more about D&D specific monsters. Critters that appear in multiple games I'm very familiar with, but I haven't a clue what a Giant Purple Worm does in the D&D universe. There are so many great ideas for monsters in that game, but also some kindof silly ones. Mayhap there is somesort of online directory. I'll go look for that now.

A side note about my Royal Guard; I was at a game store this evening, and I got to see those minis close up, and they are so teeny-tiny, I'm going to have to find different figures for them.

Thanks for all the feed back guys!

[Doc_Savage]

Really nice work, justjohn. The tentacle idea is great, and as far as I know, unique. I'max's (?) brothers tor have a similar mechanic (2 man hero) but the flavor is unique. I can imagine the great creature worming under the ground, shooting up the tenticles to catch its prey.

I think these guys will be very tough. The burrow is quite powerful and a two figure squad with 6 life should prove quite nasty.

I had thought about buying these on my weekend D&D buying binge... Now I wish I had.

Very cool...

[justjohn]

Thanks doc.

I have to admit that Imax's Brothers laid the ground work for the wording on Tentacles.

Hopefully this gal will be fun to play with.

[Grungebob]

A side note about my Royal Guard; I was at a game store this evening, and I got to see those minis close up, and they are so teeny-tiny, I'm going to have to find different figures for them. Ahem... Told ya so!! :poke:

[justjohn]

OH! I thought you were talking about the D&D figures! I didn't realize you meant the Crocodile Games' mummies.

Yeah, they were really really small. The other figures were fairly well sized, but the mummies made me very sad.

[Widigo]

Grap a pot of hot water, three sudema a set of Legonairs, a set of knights, a small sheet of styren, and a glob of Green Stuff. What i guess I am trying to say with this statment is, make your own. Just a suggestion, it would be awesome to have a set of completely custom Sudema Guards.

Widigo

[justjohn]

That's a costly venture, to say the least. I'd really like to get my hands on a few Heroquest Mummies. I've always liked those mummies, and they are the right size. They just aren't exactly an easy to get item.

I really enjoy custimizing figures and painting. I just like to try and keep the figures I use in my customs as easy to get as possible.

[reapersaurus]

Thanks doc.

I have to admit that Imax's Brothers laid the ground work for the wording on Tentacles.Wow - I'm glad you liked it. :thumbsup:

Doc Savage - how would you have gotten them this past weekend? I didn;t think they were out.

[Doc_Savage]

Reaper - This weekend I put in a big ebay order on the D&D Dragon Queen Set.

I got the Mammoth Rider, the Dino Rider, the guy with the big club, some pirates, and a wizard. Total is 3 rares, 3 Uncommons and 10 commons all for $30 with shipping. I left the Dracolich for you.

I should get these pretty soon, they shipped on wednesday.

The Dracolich is selling for $16 - $23 on ebay. Go get one!

[justjohn]

Here are the Mongrels:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3091/ironarm1bc.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3653/silverpelt3gj.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/723/goretusk3pb.jpg

Further explanation is on the first page. Enjoy!

[Grungebob]

Bout ready to go to bed and you post three new ones. I won't go into detail but zi will say that I think the savages are very undercosted. think about how powerful they could easily be throwing out 5-6 attack dice twice for each iron arm savage is pretty tough. You have them as common. Se the concern is not ther if you are only fielding one squad but at 50 points you can have a serious swarm army here, that could take down anything. Move of 7 only ensures that they all get there. I'm thinking at least 70 points for the squad and probably more.

[reapersaurus]

You've used great figures, that are easy to obtain yet again, jj! :thumbsup:

But the Iron Arms are WAY undercosted - when you gave each of them double attack, you made them instantly 100 points. Combining that with a 4-attack unit when they are attacking the same fig (very easy to do and comes up all the time) may push them over that.
Combined with the Girallon's increase to 5-attack, SIX times, and these guys are at least 150 points, not to mention that Goretusk can activaye mutiple squads each turn likely?

Goretusk's Cull the Carnage is problematic.
Do the squads have to be different? i.e. does it have to be a seperate card that is activated, with its own Order Marker?
Do you realize that if he simply rolls a 14+, the Iron-Apes can have 18 5-attack-dice attacks.... in one turn? :shock:
And why does his 20 roll only activaye him? That seems really weird - is it supposed to be him PLUS the 3 squads or heroes?

Actually, these guys would have been GREAT in the Army Contest back on .net - it's too bad you missed that one (best contest yet, IMO) - they work (too) well together, and have good combined theme. (Even if a Minotaur with a Girallon with Apes isn;t the most classic pairing....)

[justjohn]

I will work on them!

I din't realize how undercosted the Iron-Arms were.

[justjohn]

Made some fixes:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1792/ironarm4fn.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3653/silverpelt3gj.jpg
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/2204/goretusk6su.jpg

Hopefully this tackles the problems that were brought up.

[justjohn]

Okay, so when I was making Ceph, I really wanted to incorporate a long reach kindof ability, but due to space constraints, I had to drop the idea. I mean, it is a huge tentacle, it can attack more than 1 space away, right?

(Card is at the bottom of this post. I realize I need to touch up the formatting on the last ability, waitiing to do that until my current question is answered.)

Well I finally got these guys in the mail on monday, got them off of their black circle D&D bases last night, and, well, they are huge.

To base these puppies, I used 4 glyphs per tentacle, glued together and painted grey/brown. This makes them a 4 base figure, which gives them the ability to attack many more adjacent figures than even a double based figue. This solved my initial desire to give them more of an attack area.

This is a downside as well, as a 4 space base really limits where this guy can go.

Do you think she should stay at her current 160 points? Or could I up the movement to 6, to compensate for the new base, as it is a blessing/curse.

I will get pictures of the tentacles based when I get off of work and get a chance to take them.

I look forward to hearing thoiughts about the quad base. Is it a bonus or curse?

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/5226/cephalapox1sl.jpg

[LilNewbie]

Or you could make Burrow a movement ability that allows them to be picked up and moved 5 or 6 spaces away as long as they are placed on spaces on the same level.

Newb.

[ChaosChild]

Definately a curse.

On official maps, she is rarely going to get the high ground because it is usually 1 or 2 spaces. If your opponent places their fig in the right place, it will even limit her to open spaces of more than 5. Although the height of 10 does help get to figs on cliffs. I would up the move to 6 maybe even 7 though play-testing would be required.

If your opponent sees a map with only 1 level, they going to know what fig you are planning on playing. :P

[Turtleboy]

Nice JJ I like this guy alot.

The extra flavor text in Subterranian isnt needed but its nice.

In Ambush burst mabye a few wording tweaks? I get the message but it does seem a bit chopy in it.

Something like "A figure that was not adjacent to Cephalapox at the beginning of this turn rolls 2 less defense dice if attacked by Cephalapox"

Im not good with words, but id figure id take a stab at it.

[Doc_Savage]

I think that you have accidentally stumbled onto the perfect movement ability for figures with a base size greater than 2. Your Burrow ignores the effects of terrain and lets you move them to a spot a specific distance in spaces away.

Lilnewbie is on to something... The burrow could be worded so that you place the tentacle so that any part of the base is up to x spaces away. Start counting at any space where the 4 base is and count to x(4, 5, whatever you decide is appropriate). Then you place the tentacle so that any part of its base is up to x spaces away from where it started. Terrain, trees, nothing is counted but the number of spaces.

I like these guys. They did look huge in the D&D gallery.

[justjohn]

Thanks for the feedback on the movement issue.

I upped the movement to 6, reworded Burrow a little bit, and totally changed the Ambush Burst special ability.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8741/cephalapox27oe.jpg

[justjohn]

New custom, Shiggar Fraggar:

**new reworked version on first page and near the bottom of this one**

in depth explanation on the top of the first page.

Any advice on making Slow Swing not sound so clunky would be greatly appreciated!

Look forward to your feedback!

[Doc_Savage]

The Cephalapox looks good.

Regarding Shiggar – try this…

SLOW SWING
Whenever a figure is attacked by Shiggar, that figure’s controller may attempt to dodge the attack. They roll the 20-sided die for each figure. On a roll of 16 or higher, the figure avoids all wounds from this attack.

I also wonder about giving this guy a Range of 4 and an Attack of 8 for the normal attacks. That could add up to a whole lot of hurt with bonuses… On the other hand, Shiggar misses 25% of the time.

[justjohn]

I had considered making his regular range 4, but didn't want to have to deal with all of the bulky text.

I was going to make it so he could attack figures up to 4 spaces away, even if he was engaged, but then I just figured that giving him the clobber attack would work just fine. I don't think players will have to worry about getting the bonuses that come with regular attacks that you can't get for specials, when they are already rolling 8 die.

[reapersaurus]

uh - i'm blinking, making sure I see this right - 10 Life, 4 Range, 8 Attack, 4 Defense, with a special attack that gives him 8 Attack against multiple ranged spaces?

Forget about the 25% miss chance - this guy HAS to start at 250 points minimum. Probably 300. It's the attack that is way off, and the Life.

[skyknight]

I agree with Reaper john, this guy really needs his points bumped up. I do like him being that powerful though because this is a great fig all the way around. I would almost say 250 on his points. I would compare him to Charos who ways in at about 210. This guys stats are better than Charos pretty much.

[justjohn]

I was aiming for a big, slow unit that was tough and powerful, but had some balance.

Figured automissing 25% of the time and a movement of 4 was a strong enough buffer, guess I was wrong =(.

I'll get the stats tweaked. I wanna keep this guy below 200, so I guess that will be a less life and attack.

I just can't see myself spending over 200 points on something that only moves 4 spaces and automatically misses 25% of the time, regardless of his life or attack.

Side note, his range should only be 1. I don't know how I missed that! His special attack is the only thing that has a range more than 1. Sorry about the goof up, guess I sound sort of silly 2 posts up, talking about how I **wanted** to make him range 4, but didn't. =/

[justjohn]

Ok, I added 2 more "big slow troll" thematic penalty abilities. Also fixed the range.

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/9196/shiggarfraggar0hf.jpg

Also curious as to what you guys think about the newest version of my Mongrels, which are on the first page. As well as the new version of Cephalapox.

Thanks in advance for everyone's insight!

-jj

[LilNewbie]

Slow Reflexes seems like a pretty powerful weakness. How about this:

Slow Reflexes

Before rolling defense for Shiggar Fraggar, roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 5 or less, Shiggar Fraggar halves the number of shields rolled for defense (rounded down.)


Other that that, I like him. He would still be very playable without having the Slow Reflexes ability and would still be only 170 or 180, imo.

Newb.

[justjohn]

I like your take on Slow Reflexes, not sure which I like better though.

I made it such a penalty because general consensus was he was over powered previously (without slow reflexes and easily distracted, with a typo of range 4, instead of range 1, all at 150 points).

Thanks for you input, I really want to get this guy fine-tuned.

[reapersaurus]

He's gettin' better, jj! :)

I like the idea of handicaps to a unit, you know that, as a way to buffer the cost.
The problem is if they are luck-based, than you are just setting up a situation where he either stinks and can't hit or defend against anything with bad rolls, or just dominates with good rolls.

Some questions, and more later:
1) Why Friggar Shaggar?
It doesn;t roll off the tongue - I keep wnating to say something different.
Why not make him a stupid-sounding name that he might be able to actually pronounce, like Krug's was?

How bout Bert? :D
Or Squish?
Or maybe "AAAAAAHHHHH!!!" (i.e. Q: Why is he called called Ahhhhh?
A: Because that's what people always scream when they see him coming. )

2) Gotta reduce the attack on the ranged special attack.
If it was 6, it might be too much still.
Currently an 8 attack renders his normal attack potentially superfluous.

[Turtleboy]

I tried using the same figure for a custom I named Snolash if your looking for a new name.

But Frigging Shiznat is a cool name too. :twisted:

[justjohn]

Shiggar Fraggar's updated card on first page.

[justjohn]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9201/makamotocs8.jpg

They basically cannot attack. They are the old wizened samurai diplomat/peace keepers. They engage, try to work things out, get attacked, and retaliate.

They are Izumi repaints, and I painted 6 of them:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4149/samuraigp7.jpg

More on them on the first page.

Look forward to feedback!

[Grungebob]

Wow, these guys are very weak against other Samurai. I would remove that last line and allow them to counterstrike even other Samurai.

[justjohn]

I didn't realize it was even there. Copied the ability from HS.com, so I would word it accurately. I will remove that.

Thanks for the heads up, GB.

Aside from that, does the no attack make up for counterstrike on a common unit?

**Fixed** Look up or on the first page!

[LilNewbie]

I like the idea of the Makamoto but would make them have 5 Def....other than that...pretty cool!

Since counterstrike is powerful but somewhat limited, I think it's a good trade off.

Newb.

[justjohn]

I had tossed around the idea of 5 defense, but at only 40 points, didn't know if that was such a good idea.

[LilNewbie]

Here's an idea to limit common squads but still allow them common status:

Some names for the ability could be Limited x, Availability x, Common Limit x, etc:

Each army may only contain x squads of <unit name>.

I may add this to the Pictish Warriors.

Newb.

[justjohn]

Hmm. Good idea newbie. I think I may just up their defense to 5.

The wife and I are getting ready to playtest alot of these customs, we'll see how they do.

On the chopping block:
Cephalapox
Sisters of the Sai
RajaKarn, the Furnace
Makamoto Emessaries

Playtesting against the 4th/Roman 400 pt machine, so it should be interesting. My version is a little bit different (Marcus/2xRomans/2x4th/DeD). I'll post pictures later, for sure.

In the next day or so, I will be reworking my Mongrels and the Blood Initiates, their leader, and a new ranged squad to fit in their ranks.

[netherspirit]

I was working on a defender type ability awhile ago but couldn't get the card the way I wanted, it seems you accomplished what I wanted. I may borrow your idea for my custom.

Very nice card. I like the idea and the end result.

Newb, I like your idea of the Limit x thing. Very cool idea.

[LilNewbie]

Thanks, JJ and NS. Changed the Pictish Warriors to Common status and added a limit per army to them. Looking forward to seeing you playtesting pictures and recap, JJ!

Newb.

[ChaosChild]

Love the Makamoto Emissaries. They fit my play style perfectly. I like to have the samuria run up and engage and then put order markers on other units. With the samuria I don't feel like they are doing nothing out there because they can counterstrike. I will definately have to try these guys. Excellent paint job too.

[Widigo]

Now they are just about useless, unless you bilt a wall.

[Widigo]

Awesome paint job though

[justjohn]

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/9031/arablp8.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2230/necronomiconax6.jpg

My newest creation. From H.P. Lovercraft's work. In depth explanation can be found on the first page.

Also, the wife fell asleep before we could playtest, so maybe tonight =(.

[netherspirit]

Hmmm something seems familiar. Nice to see you using another one of my ideas and expanding it, a little further ;):P

Let me read over the lengthy text on the Necronomicon and I will post a more indepth analysis.

[justjohn]

Yeah, I gave you credit on the first page. Without your creativity, wouldn't have been able to get all of these abilities out.

I look forward to what you have to say about it.

[LilNewbie]

Ah, the Mad Arab! Nice reference and use of the Cthulu Mythos.

Need a 'c' in the line "Place 1 Madness marker on this card and 'c'hoose 1 previously..."

Nice job and nice touch where using the Necronomicon causes hurt while gaining power!

Newb.

[justjohn]

I'll get those errors fixed tonight. What do you guys think about the price? I've been thinking, maybe a tad bit higher.

Anywho, I got some of my customs based up and ready to roll. Pictures can be found at my customizations thread. Really happy with how the Cephalapox Tentacle bases turned out: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1152

[justjohn]

Consorts of Carnage:
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4553/consortsih1.jpg

Initiates of Gore (dropped the points, reduced attack, costed too much):
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6418/initiatesyh1.jpg

Mezalin (Dropped him by 10 points):
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6779/mezalinbg9.jpg

More in depth explanation on 1st page.

Ditched the Abdul & Necronomicon idea. Too much text was needed for Necronomicon, and not nearly enough space. Too confusing.

Look forward to your feedback.

[skyknight]

These just sound like alot of fun to play with John, nice units.

[justjohn]

I'm hoping they are, I have all of the figures except for the Consorts, which I am ordering tonight before we go out of town.

When we get back, I'm really hoping to get all of the units I have up now, from Rajakarn and newer, playtested. I am currently working on Revamping the mongrels, because after reviewing them several times, they just aren't doing it for me.

[Faustus]

Justjohn,

Where did you get the Ninja figures to use for the Black Hand of Kyogi?

Thanks!

[Widigo]

Nice custom, that would be a nice army to play.

[justjohn]

Reworked these guys:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/456/ironarmib0.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8413/silverpeltez9.jpg
http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/8818/goretusknm1.jpg

There were some balance issues in the first batch. I think on top of balancing them, I have also made them much more flavorful this go round. I really, really like these 3 figures and I want to get them as fine tuned as possible as a beasty swarm army.

As always, more indepth explanation is on the first page, and I look forward to your comments!

[justjohn]

So the wife and me playtested 3 of my customs this evening... very fun! 400 points on this map:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5368/theboardqj0.jpg
She played:
2x Romans
2x 4th Mass
Deadeye
Marcus

I played:
Cephalapox
Rajakarn, the Furnace
Sisters of the Sai

First couple of turns revolved around us moving across the board, well, me moving and her setting up. Deadeye on the bridge proved brutal, and moving Cephalapox proved to be all that it was cracked up to be:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2079/advanceot9.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/941/deadeyedeadlyme1.jpg

Deadeye picked off a few Kilnlings before Rajakarn started attacking Marcus and the Romans. After trying to use Raja's special 3 times, I switched over to his normal attack, and he and his kilnlings took out 2 romans and Marcus, but Raja took 3 wounds, and he and the kilnlings retreated back behind some trees:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2527/rajashowdownrw9.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/369/rajahidinges8.jpg

Meanwhile, Deadeye started taking aim for Cephalapox, so the Sisters moved in, lost 1 sister, and eventually pinned Deadeye on the bridge and killed him. They took out 2 more romans before falling the to 4th mass.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6272/sistersadvanceta1.jpg

Cephalapox finished off all but 1 roman, and then moved in to the nested 4th mass, killing 2. Ceph fell to the 4th mass, but blocked their line of site for 2 turns.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5796/cephmadnesswr0.jpg

It came down to Raja and the kilnings vs 5 4th mass and 1 roman. Raja died the following turn.

Results:
Cephalapox: This guy was a ton of fun to play. The high stats for 2 different figures was great, but moving him was very challenging. Tough unit, but fell fairly easily to 2 pot shots from deadeye and a barrage from the 4th mass.

Rajakarn: He kindof flopped. He moved really slow, and while the Kilnlings were neat, I disliked that I had to choose between moving or attacking with them each turn. I may change it to pure bonding style. His special attack was very lack luster, even with him giving -3 def, he still has to roll 1 skull, which I failed to do 3 times in a row. I'm considering dropping him to 130 and getting rid of the special attack, and adding somekind of attack bonus for adjacent kilnlings.

Sisters of the Sai: WOW! These broads rocked. At first my wife thought they were very overpowered, but then in retrospect, they only get powerful when they die, and she then thought they were cost worthy. I never took them off of defensive stance. Very fun unit.

Will be doing another one of these soon!

[LilNewbie]

Awesome recap of your playtest session and with pics to boot! Thanks for posting.

Newb.

[reapersaurus]

1) GREAT great playtest and i love to see the effort and even pics taken!

2) You really shouldn't go up against such a powerful army, as includes the 4th MAss.
I really think those guys are close to broken, since you really can't approach them with any unit and do more damage to them than you. They have almost no weakness.
In other words, since normal units fall in droves to their power, why put customs up against them, since it will skew the playtesting results?

Would love to see more.

[justjohn]

I just wanted to test them against a "powerful" army.

Have any suggestions for a good 400 pt army to play test against?

[justjohn]

Tactimator:
http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/7440/normaltactimatoruu0.jpg

They are common Soulborg heroes who can take the place of normal squad figures. They offer ranged attack for the Gladiatrons, and also some additional tactical protection against ranged units.

Susbstitute, I think, is worded somewhat poorly, any help would be appreciated!

They are Zettian repaint/mods. I made 2 of them:
http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/9218/picture009ze7.jpg

[skyknight]

I like that alot, I recently finished up another custom using Zettians but I need to use up some more. This is a great idea. I honestly do not know what I would fix on this card, reads pretty well. Nice job Hoss.

[justjohn]

Thanks SK.

Yeah, I hate painting the Zettians. They are so hard to paint, imo. There just aren;t a lot of raised/different parts to paint, so they end up looking kindof toyish/fake.

Hoping to get this tested this weekend.

[LilNewbie]

JJ,

Just printed off the following cards:

Stixstax
Rajakarn
Kilnlings

Not sure if I'll be able to playtest them till after GC but just wanted to say they are very cool and like the symbiotic relationship between Raj and the Kilnlings. Cool stuff! Stixstax gives close combat figurs a needed boost. Is Stixstax affected by his Cadence of Carnage?

Newb.

[justjohn]

Hey, thanks Newb!

I wish you had waited 1 day before you printed them out, as I had some changes I wanted to and been meaning to make to Raja and the Kilnlings.
After playtesting, 150 was too expensive, I'm thinking around 130 now. His special is going to get bumped to 2 attack instead of just 1. And finally, I'm going to make it so that the Kilnlings' explosion doesn't affect other kilnlings or raja. The fact that it currently can hurt them is very counter productive when you are trying to get all of them adjacent to a figure to use Raja's special.

Also, Stix's Cadence doesn't affect him. I never added that clause in. I made that guy a while back, and with little response about him, he kindof faded from my memory.

I really, really liked the Sisters, btw. If you can get the models for them, they were very fun.

Anyways, it's an honor that you took the time to print these guys out for play. Thanks man.

[LilNewbie]

It's all good. Just post when you update them and I'll reprint them. I finally got enough of the kinlings to make a squad so that's the reason for the late comment. The Warforged Wizard has always been a favorite figure of mine since it appeared.

Newb.

[justjohn]

I would suggest getting some thumb tacs for attaching the kilnlings to the bases. I just put one into the base upsidedown, and pushed the kilnling down onto the tac part. I glued it as well. Being so small lends them to easily popping off of a base.

Yeah, the Kilnlings are ridiculously small. I was so let down when I got them in the mail. But they get the job done.

[reapersaurus]

Tactimator:
http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/7440/normaltactimatoruu0.jpgI REALLY like the Smoke Launcher ability.
So Gladiatrons is the only squad they can activate with. Are you gambling that the Wave 5 guys will be also, I wonder? :)

Substitute seems written fine, to me. :shrug: Very clear about what it does.

Smoke Launcher could use a re-word, I think:

* "Instead of attacking with Tactimator" (although he's common, I think it would be phrased without the "a"
* you know what? You may want to make it a Special Attack:

Smoke Launcher Special Attack
Range 4. Attack Special.
Place a Smoke Marker on 1 space. All figures on or adjacent to a Smoke Marker have their Range reduced to 1. Remove all Smoke Markers at the beginning of each round, before placing Order Markers.

I think that's pretty clean - hopefully that addresses all rules mechanics i regards to the GREAT ability.
Will reducing Range to 1 automatically stop special abilities from going further? If you think Range is the number printed on the card, is Braxas' spacial power that has a range a seperate thing? If so, you'd have to specify it to apply to special powers/attacks with range, also. :?:

And I don't know if any common hero is worth 65 points. That is an AWFULLY high cost to put in a figure that has 1 Life.

BTW - I ALMOST picked up some of those FlameSkulls from D&D that the Kilnlings are, right? I thought they looked small, but me being a skulls fan, I thought I'd pick them up anyway for $.50 a piece. I'm almost glad he didn;t have any left, after he raised the price to $1 each.

[justjohn]

I'm glad you like them, reaper. Pretty easy custom to make, too. That smoke launcher is just pegged onto dw so it pops off pretty easily. Just a matter of cutting off the shield arm of the zettian and glueing the launcher on. You don't HAVE to paint them, although they look like neat little Q-9s in person.

As far as the details you covered, I agree that it should be made into a special attack. Your wording is much more clean and crisp. As far as affecting the range of specials, I hadn't really considered it, was thinking more along the lines of special attacks/abilities. Would it be too powerful if it did reduce the range of specials to 1?

As far as the price, I was over costing, if anything. What would you suggest for pricing? 50-55? Would it be ok, you think, to keep him at the current points and bump defense to 6? I figured being he adds bonding for himself to a squad and the ability to somewhat disrupt ranged, that he was worth his points. I'm open to suggestions!

As a side note, did you ever get a chance to look at the revised Mongrels? I really want to get them up and running, but noone commented on them, so I have nothing to go on aside from the comments from their original versions.

And yes, the flame skulls are teeny-tiny, but are very cool.

OH! Lol... so much... I found some good (in my opinion) replacement figures for the Royal Guard. They still require painting but look pretty cool and are as "meaty" as the rest of the HS scultps.

[Annerios]

I like the smoke marker concept; I used something like it on a card except mine blocked LOS. You can go easily go 3-D with the marker instead of just using a wound marker piece, which is kind of cool. 8)

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/Smoke_Markers.JPG

[LilNewbie]

I like the smoke marker concept; I used something like it on a card except mine blocked LOS. You can go easily go 3-D with the marker instead of just using a wound marker piece, which is kind of cool. 8)

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/Smoke_Markers.JPG

Show off! :D I like that 3D smoke marker.

Newb.

[Annerios]

Show off! :D I like that 3D smoke marker.

Newb.

Hey, everybody is bound to have a pillow with some stuffing somewhere in their house. :D

The tricky part is sewing up the hole you made to get the stuffing out of the pillow before your wife/girlfriend finds out! :ninja:

[LilNewbie]

Show off! :D I like that 3D smoke marker.

Newb.

Hey, everybody is bound to have a pillow with some stuffing somewhere in their house. :D

The tricky part is sewing up the hole you made to get the stuffing out of the pillow before your wife/girlfiend finds out! :ninja:

True! You have a better excuse though. Just say the pillow got "lost" in the move. :D

Newb.

[justjohn]

Yeah, cotton makes for cool smoke.

I like that idea. Hmm. Makes it a little bit more powerful. You can't occupy that space any more, and it does more than just reduce range to 1... I really like it more, but I don't know how much more powerful it is.

And since I hate when my last post is the last one on the last page since it usually goes unread...


I'm glad you like them, reaper. Pretty easy custom to make, too. That smoke launcher is just pegged onto dw so it pops off pretty easily. Just a matter of cutting off the shield arm of the zettian and glueing the launcher on. You don't HAVE to paint them, although they look like neat little Q-9s in person.

As far as the details you covered, I agree that it should be made into a special attack. Your wording is much more clean and crisp. As far as affecting the range of specials, I hadn't really considered it, was thinking more along the lines of special attacks/abilities. Would it be too powerful if it did reduce the range of specials to 1?

As far as the price, I was over costing, if anything. What would you suggest for pricing? 50-55? Would it be ok, you think, to keep him at the current points and bump defense to 6? I figured being he adds bonding for himself to a squad and the ability to somewhat disrupt ranged, that he was worth his points. I'm open to suggestions!

As a side note, did you ever get a chance to look at the revised Mongrels? I really want to get them up and running, but noone commented on them, so I have nothing to go on aside from the comments from their original versions.

And yes, the flame skulls are teeny-tiny, but are very cool.

OH! Lol... so much... I found some good (in my opinion) replacement figures for the Royal Guard. They still require painting but look pretty cool and are as "meaty" as the rest of the HS scultps.
_________________

[Annerios]

Yeah, cotton makes for cool smoke.

I like that idea. Hmm. Makes it a little bit more powerful. You can't occupy that space any more, and it does more than just reduce range to 1... I really like it more, but I don't know how much more powerful it is.

I limited it to only one marker, if not, it is too powerful. Figures can move through it, so it does not impede movement, but you could easily fill up a bridge with it or form a wall if you allow too many of the 3-D smoke grenades to be thrown.

I have tested it with leaving the marker in place, since in "real time" 12 to 14 rounds is not much time, but have thought about removing it after 6 rounds or some other preset time. Once I get my customs out of storage and actually have a chance to test things again I'll probably test it more.

I really like the Zettian conversion and Vydar themed paintjob. It is a great way to make some use of those master set extras that are just laying around. A figure like this will see more play than a Zettian anyday. :wink:

I'll definitely try this guy out when I have a chance. :thumbsup:

[justjohn]

Thanks annerios. Let me know how it turns out.

I do like your smoke idea a good bit. I just think it would merrit too high of a price jump on the figure I'm using smoke on.

Thanks a ton for the insight, though!

[justjohn]

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3182/rajakarndd8.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9734/klinlingwt4.jpg

Reduced Raja's price, upped his special attack to 2, and gave him 1 more life. Made it so that the Kilnling's special attack didn't affect other Kilnlings or Rajakarn.

[justjohn]

So I've seen a few people wanting them, so here they are. Our lonely Warlord gets his Dreadguls!:

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/743/dreadgulsdg5.jpg

Tarn repaint (obviously). I know, I left one out. Don't worry, he's coming soon as a common hero with range and Dreadgul boosting power. Wee!

As always, comments and feedback welcomed and looked forward to!

[Grungebob]

I love em!! I would play these guys in a heartbeat.

Fera Monger
When being attacked by a Dreadgul, defending figures roll one less defense die for each Dreadgul they are engaged with up to a maximum reduction of 2 dice. Dreadguls are not affected by the Fear Monger ability.

This may still have some loopholes. Does that defending figure roll less defense dice when it is engaged with another team's Dreadgul and you attack with your Dreadgul?

[LilNewbie]

Thanks for fixing Raj and the Kilnlings. Nice work on the Dreadguls (the card and the awesome resculpts/paint jobs!)

I like GBs wording a little better. Makes them immune to their own fear causing abilities.


Newb.

[Widigo]

Nice tarn, I turned mine all into custom heros, I never thought of making a squad. they look nice.

[justjohn]

Hey thanks guys.

I Had figure that Fear Monger would need some work, but I threw them together last night right before bed, and I have had a very long day.

I have to agree with your wording on that ability, gb. I had intended it to be that way, but I never really take into consideration that 2 people will be playing against eachother with the same customs.

I'll try to get an updated version of thes eguys up later tonight.

[justjohn]

I've put the Dreadguls on the back burner as I work on something else, but, in the meanwhile, here is something I've been wanting to do and just started on last night, Achilles:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/821/achillesside1mp0.jpg
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4397/achillesside2pu2.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9562/achillesfrontbv9.jpg

Head from Saylind, body from Parmenio (sans the cape), shield is made from 2 ms shields, cut and put together to resemble the shield from the movie, Troy. Hand not yet done, wanting to do a spear, but having a little difficulty with it. His armor will be mostly deep brown washed with a darker brown, to look leathery, as well as silver on all tidbits.

As far as abilities, he's going to be pretty stout, but, he will have an Achille's heel, of course.

_____________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________

[LilNewbie]

Nice start on the custom figure.

Newb.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

JJ, that is simply ****ing sweet! The idea for the shield is too cool. I don't think I could ever cut up a Parmenio or Saylilnd, but the two components from those figures work really well for Achilles.
I hated the movie Troy, but it was fun watching Achilles and his fighting style.

Can't wait to see the completed figure!

[Annerios]

Great work on Achilles. That is what I wish the official Greeks would look like instead of wearing those goofy hat/helms they currently have.

Maybe if the film adaptation of Miller's 300 is a big hit, we'll get some more Greek figures for HS.

http://heroes.chez-alice.fr/e-herrev/images/300-2.gif

[monkeyfish]

http://upload4.postimage.org/910323/thumb_tarn1.jpg
You could try the spear from this figure.

[Karkadinn]

Jesus ****ing Christ, is there even a point to anyone posting customs anymore, since clearly no one ever looks at any goddamn thread that isn't their own?
No, it wouldn't occur to you that maybe someone else had put a lot of work into making an Achilles card already. Nooo, of course not. Better to make up your own thing. Why not let everyone make up their own thing, we can have ten thousand different versions of Achilles running around. Whoo.

[justjohn]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. For starters, your achilles looks great, and I'm pretty sure that I had commented on it before, probably back on .net. I've been doing this just as long as you have, maybe longer, and popular figures are going to be duplicated. I'm pretty sure there is another Achilles floating around here as well, aside from yours or mine, that used greek-style lettering, but maybye I'm thinking about the Hoplites, I really can't remember EVERY single custom that I've looked at.

And yes, people do look at other people's threads, look at the 3 post prior to yours... those aren't from me. And while your waggling that finger around, why don't you use it to right click your mouse over the search feature and search out my name. I think you'll find that I've commented, more than once on most occasions, on just about every worthwhile custom thread on this site. I'm pretty sure the same can be said for other people with lengthy custom threads who are active members of this community (nether, annerios, lilnewbie, reaper, Imax, Doc_Savage, just to name a few).

Did you expect me to ask permission from you if I could mod an Achilles figure to use in a card which would have different abilities from yours? Or perhaps I should have offered my services to mod a mini that could replace the painting you used on your card?

[Karkadinn]

Jesus Christ, man, Achilles didn't even exist on my thread till I posted it on Scapers!
If you're trying to make me think that the customs scene is completely futile due to the self-centeredness inherent in humanity, you're doing a good job.
What I EXPECTED was that you'd take five seconds to do a search and see what other people had come up with from the same concept, and figure out whether or not you could do something better or not, taking the efforts of others into account. Instead of living in your own little bubble world. You'll notice on my thread that I have a Boogieman custom... well, Reaper has one too, but I KNEW that because I PAY FREAKING ATTENTION to other people's efforts and took his into account when I made mine, even talked with him directly about it. If you're going to make stats for a figure you can't do that well unless you know how other people have tried to make the same concept, and learn from their failings and successes. Or maybe even just decide, sometimes, that their version was perfect and that yours isn't needed. I've done that a few times.
I also love how you indirectly say that my customs thread isn't worthwhile. You also appear to think the same of Raidor's and Atmospro's customs. :P
Seriously, man, it's bull**** like this that kept me distant from the customs scene for a long time after the site change from HQ to Scapers. Might as well scrap the customs section altogether if this is an example of the typical regular's viewpoint, because there's no sense in continuing projects that are primarily mental masturbation. And okay, maybe I could have stated my case more delicately, but I'm just completly sick of dealing with this issue and appearing to be the only person who cares enough to try to avoid doing a custom that's been done before by a major player in the scene unless I specifically had a significantly different take on it.
Any one thread doesn't matter worth crap. It's supposed to be the cooperation between them, the overall web, that makes the customs scene worthwhile, each creator learning from his brethren. Like the Gift of Magic system, for instance. If we don't do that then there's absolutely no longterm point.

[justjohn]

My mistake about not knowing the age of your Achilles. I'm unsure how that statement makes you feel like the custom community is crumbling around you. If you would look at my other customs, instead of the ones that you just don't care about or that step on YOUR creative toes, you would see that several of my customs would not have existed if it wasn't for other peoples work.

I faintly recall the scary world outside of my safe, little bubble. I experienced that world once when I started a new display thread to showcase OTHER PEOPLE'S quality customs. Guess you found it convienent to overlook the Barracks since it was somewhat unkind to your feelings about me. As far as knowing what other people do in their own custom threads, I don't see how you can keep up with everything when you say things like this:
All those customs, and you still haven't figured out how to keep the right side margin straightened up.... ^_~
I don't know if you realize it or not, but it's little things like that that personally drive me away from some threads. Things that could be fixed to look more professional, but aren't. I don't expect anyone to be more skilled at graphical stuff than they are, but it would be nice for them to use what talent they do have to the full extent, y'know?
Other nitpicks... I believe I can see the mini's actual base, might wanna delicately erase that. And there the almost but not quite fog effect... if you can't make it more noticeable than that it's probably best not to bother.

You're driven back into YOUR bubble by the non-Karkadin-approved custom efforts? And yes, my version of Achilles was going to be very different than yours. And yes, most people here pay attention to other people's work, it's hard to make customs if you don't know what has been tried and what hasn't.

I'm also sorry that my abbreviated custom creator list didn't include your personal favorites. It was an abbreviated list, I also didn't include Gbob or Truth, and a large handful of other quality custom makers, and not because I didn't think their work was insignifigant, but because I chose a handful of creators at random.

[Karkadinn]

I admit that I'm not going to pay much attention to customs where it's clear that the creator could have put more effort into it, but didn't. Call it a prejudice if you like but it's not inconsistent with my philosophy... even if I don't comment on the vast glut of subpar efforts, I still pay attention to them and recognize their existence. One of them, Frosty the Snowminion, even found his way into one of my fanfics. There was a time when I would comment on the aesthetically subpar customs threads as well, but after the ten millionth time of having my advice completely ignored, I learned to start ignoring them too. If you're not going to take the time to get the basic friggin' font right, you're certainly not going to take the time to get the special abilities playtested and the figure costed out properly.
And yeah, you're basically right that for the most part you've been doing a good job keeping up with things, I guess I was just particularly miffed at this specific slipup because Achilles was a recent card on my part, and I was really proud of him. So yeah, I overreacted, but the principle is still there. A five second search wouldn't have killed you. And your reply was just laced with ignorance. ;P
Still, I'm curious... now that you've said your Achilles is intended to be nothing like mine, what aspects of his character did you think I missed or implemented incorrectly?
And I wasn't talking about your little list.. You said you'd commented on every worthwhile thread on this site... either the threads I mentioned, that you haven't commented in on this site, aren't worthwhile, by that definition, or you have to admit your statement was incorrect.

[reapersaurus]

i know i have no business butting my head in here, but this is too painful to not implore you guys to try and see it from the other guys' view for a minute.

This is killing me, because you BOTH are CRITICAL IMO to the customs community.
There are so few of us left that have a solid foundation in customs design and a sense of perspective about the customs environment and a sense of its history.

Kark - I totally understand disappointment about a great creator (justjohn) not noticing one of your recent efforts. That stings. To be fair, you did help create this by lumping all your units in one post, instead of posting the old ones first, then divvying out the newer ones over a couple weeks time, to get new feedback and attention to them.

justjohn - I know it's not easy to hear such up-front posts like are in here. All I can say is - karkadinn is a very up front guy when he feels comfortable with the person he's talking to. So in a strange way, him speaking his mind means he likes you. :lol:
Let me put it this way - he cusses the hell out of me on IM and insults my knowledge level regularly on topics he knows a lot about and I'm speaking out my ass. :rofl:
But we go back to being cool with it - it's just flare ups in a creative process.
The key to not lose sight is that we are some of the few creators that give back to each other, and help to establish a foundation of fan-created work that IMO meets and exceeds most of the official units. Yes, I said that. Sorry if that offends anyone who loves the officials - I find many of them to be uninspired and uncreative (mostly because of their handcuffed demographic restriction).

But we customs creators lean on each other for feedback and inspiration, and it kills me to hear 2 of the best get into a row that their creative energies will be diminished by.

:(

Please - kiss and make up - I won't look. :D

[justjohn]

I do see it from his point of view, and I am sorry for lashing out and stirring the puddin' instead of just apologizing and letting sleeping dogs lie.

As to answer your question Kark, I think you Achilles looks great, and I will post this in your thread, too, the only thing I don't like is that the Menis markers never go away, but there is no reasonable way to do that with the ability, does that make sense? In the story, Achilles gets full of rage, but then the rage kindof fades for the time being once the enemy is defeated/loved one avenged.

Here are the ideas that I was tossing around for my version (and I really hate posting stats only, instead of a card, but I'm at my wife's office and non't have access to my programs):

120-140ish points (probably will end up being more)
3 Life
5 Move
1 Range
6 Attack
0 Defense

Armor and Heel of Achilles
Achilles defense can never be modified. When Achilles is attacked, roll the 20 sided die. On a roll of 1-3, Achilles may not roll defense against this attack (kindof redundant, and would take some rewording, but this is preliminary) on a roll of 4 or higher, ignore all wounds he would recieve. Achilles may not be targeted by special abilities that would kill him outright.

Rage: Wax and Wane
Achilles begins the game with 2 Rage markers. Whenever a unique hero you control is destroyed, place 1 Rage marker on this card. Before attacking with Achilles, remove 1 Rage marker from this card. If you cannot, Achilles may not attack.

I had also considered making him boost all greeks within 4 clear sight spaces, but wanted him to be more of a stand alone character rather than a support/standalone, those guys seem to require too high of a cost.

[Karkadinn]

Well, all that crud hashed out we can get to the fun part, comparing and contrasting and debating.... :)
I figured that the duration of the average HS battle scenario would be short enough that having the rage fade would be silly. I mean, we can assume that each scenario takes, say, less than a day, right? Because they don't stop to make camp and sleep and eat and stuff. ;) So time shouldn't be a factor. The other factor would be taking revenge against the appropriate party, but HS armies are small enough in scale that it's not too much of a stretch to assume he wouldn't calm down until he'd wiped the opposition out entirely.
OTOH, I could see his Rage being a revenge thing that gives bonuses only when attacking the appropriate figures that murdered his friends. I don't quite see the 'No rage = no attack' thing though. He's a soldier, right? He should be able to attack even if he's not especially pissed off at the time, IMHO.
Your version of the invincibility special is actually pretty close to what I'd originally been going to use for my version of Achilles, until Reaper convinced me to simplify it down to invincibility = high defense. It's the old complexity/simplicity tradeoff deal at work again, and everyone's got their own preferences for where and when and how much they wanna trade off....
The major difference is that you added in an immunity to instakill abilities, which is interesting. Thematically I picture his body as being made supernaturally resistant to ordinary forms of damage by the Styx empowering his skin, but I don't picture that saving him from being gulped by a t-rex or turned to stone via a medusa's gaze. Still, YMMV. :)
I think you made the right choice in leaving off a supportive aura type power, instead of letting him be a super duper individual as well as a supporter type. I mean, look at how Hasbro costs Spartacus and Taelord, and they're not half as super duper as your version of Achilles when considered as individuals. O_O Can't him overshadowing the official guys too much now can we, even if Hasbro gets overly conservative in costing sometimes. ;D But for my part I prefer them to be overly conservative rather than risk power creep. Can always release units to buff up weak ones later, but once you release an overpowered unit, there's no easy way to wussify it after the fact. Actually that reminds me, Spartacus makes my Woundwort look a wee bit underpriced for that matter, I may have to bump up the poor bunny's cost to keep him in line with officialdom. u_u

[justjohn]

Thanks for the feedback. As far as the rage thing goes, you're right, the battles are like a day long. As far as the not fighting, I was thinking of how he refused to fight until his friend was killed, pro... colus or something, can't remember. I think you're also right about the immune to specials thing, I was just trying to make him super tough. I dunno how much more time/thought I'm going to put into this before I actually finish the model, which should be tonight.

[justjohn]

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8684/achillespaintedfronteb7.jpghttp://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9407/achillespaintedside1ia9.jpghttp://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8760/achillespaintedside2by6.jpg

There he is finished. Not really happy with the wash, and will probably apply a second one later. So, I guess he's *almost* fnished. Check my customization thread for a play by play (for lack of a better term) on how he was put together.

[Karkadinn]

I'm working on the assumption that the Skeletor skintone is due to the lighting. :D Other than that looks awesome... the pose is all 'What fool challenges me?! Go ahead, try to hurt me. I double dog DARE you!'

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

The figure looks awesome. Dang, the guy has a long spear.

:quarter:

[justjohn]

Heh, yeah, the picture is not very good, and I'm not sure why. His skin tone is a dark tan with a brown wash, dunno why it looks like that. I'm adding a 3rd wash to it when I get home from work, and hopefully get better pictures.

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

[LilNewbie]

I really like the Achilles figure! Is there a way to smooth the surface of the shield to hide where the two pieces are joined?

Newb.

[justjohn]

In person, you really can't see it that well, the line between the shields. The camera added some odd lines, because of the lighting. I can add another coat onto the shield (the bronze mix I made was fairly thick), and that should cover up any lines.

I'm glad you like it. It was actually pretty easy to throw together.

[Rhydderch]

Thanks for the feedback. As far as the rage thing goes, you're right, the battles are like a day long. As far as the not fighting, I was thinking of how he refused to fight until his friend was killed, pro... colus or something, can't remember. I think you're also right about the immune to specials thing, I was just trying to make him super tough. I dunno how much more time/thought I'm going to put into this before I actually finish the model, which should be tonight.

Concerning the Iliad, Achilles did fight when the Greeks arrived at Troy and took a girl (Briseis I think) as a war prize. He only refused to fight when one of the other Greeks stole Briseis. So I would think Achilles should still be able to attack even without a rage marker. Also Achilles returned to war in a rage when his friend Patroclus was killed.

I like the idea of Achilles in HS. I was also interested in the different ways you and Kark handled his invulnerability. I feel like Kark made a more historical Achilles with normal high defense and a weakness. Yours feels more like a mythological Achilles with the special defensive ability.

I had actually played around with some ideas after I saw Kark's version of Achilles but before you posted your thoughts. Interestingly my interpretation of Achilles sort of turned out in the middle: my rage ability was more similar to Kark's but my armor/heel was closer to yours. Here is what I came up with:

Consuming Rage
When a unique hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Achilles is destroyed by an enemy figure, place a red rage marker on this card. When attacking with Achilles, you may attack one additional time for every Rage Marker on this card. A maximum of 2 Rage Markers can be placed on this card.

--Similar to the idea Kark had except it allows Achilles to attack multiple times. I felt it fit more with the idea of Achilles slaughtering enemies left and right as he makes his way towards Hector.

Achilles Heel
Whenever Achilles would roll defense against a normal attack, roll the 20-sided die instead. If the attacker is adjacent to Achilles and you roll a 1-2, Achilles is destroyed. If you roll a 3-20, Achilles ignores any wounds. If the attacker is not adjacent to Achilles and you roll a 1-4, Achilles is destroyed. If you roll a 5-20, Achilles ignores any wounds.

--Basically a defensive ability which protects Achilles from normal attacks. I felt he should be immune to most regular attacks but decided he would take damage from special attacks normally in order to keep him balanced. I also felt it would better capture the myth if his protective power were weaker against ranged attackers.

Anyway that was my take on Achilles. Also these are proposed as ideas/suggestions to both of you rather than a third version of Achilles. I will not be posting a card so please do not attack me :pray: :P Also sorry to Kark for not commenting on his Achilles in his thread. I have a bad connection right now so my computer is having trouble opening all these windows.

[Karkadinn]

I could never assault a man with Pratchett in his sig! :)
The extra attack idea for Rage is interesting, I might borrow that... if I do, all due credits to the source, of course. ;P

[justjohn]

I like your ideas Ry. The multiple attacks is an awesome idea, and does fit thematically.

As for my version, I guess I was really just trying to install a drawback for using Achilles. I enjoy making powewrful figures with drawbacks, as I think it allows the price to be reduced greatly, and also adds another level of strategy to try to compensate for the drawback.

I think, though, I'm gonna step away from the Achilles idea, and leave it up to you guys. Kark, if you want to use the figure I made for your Achilles card, you're more than welcome to. Let me know, and I'll try and get some better, more clear pictures taken of him. If not, no harm no foul.

[Annerios]

Another character to scratch off my list of possible cards. You guys have it handled with some great stuff here. :thumbsup:

As an alternative figure, for those that don't mind painting, this is a figure I was considering for Achilles:

http://www.bronzeagemin.com/IMAGES/miniatures/25MM/Historical/28mm-greeks/28mm-greek-5.jpg

Only $3 from Bronze Age miniatures. They are a small company, but make some nice miniatures.

[LilNewbie]

Nice alternate mini, Annerios. Even looks like Brad Pitt....I kid, I kid. :D

Newb.

[CupidsArt]

Great Work JJ, I'm really impressed.

:D:D:D:D:)

JCA

[blindmiceinboots]

did you modify the Tarn's for your Dreadguls in any way besides paints? id like to make these guys and see if they work well with Valgaurd

[justjohn]

Thanks CA.

Blind: Not really, I did cut the wings off of one of the helmets. Aside from that, nope.

There are some more upclose pictures of them in my custimization thread over in the other custimizations forum, if you need to see the color scheme better.

[Karkadinn]

Eheh, a little after the fact guilt on my end. I hope I didn't scare you off with my raving... I do appreciate alternate takes on a unit concept so long as they're genuinely specifically different takes from what went before.
And, just a random idea - Have you considered doing step by step putting it together pics for your figs? I think that's part of why the Standard Bearer took off, people liked the visual instructions.
I'm not sure if having a definitive, heavily-modded figure for the card is better than having no particular definite fig... I'll let you know when I make up my mind on that end. :)

[justjohn]

No, you didn't scare me off at all, just made me realize that there was another person who had a better handle of this particular idea. I should have gave credit when credit was due, and for whatever reason, I didn't. Good lesson learned.

As for the figure, the separate photos in my custimization thread are about as good as I can get. I didn't take photos of me actually cutting stuff off, just a few before and afters. I think, though, if someone has a fair handling on minis (painting and modding) they can look at the pictures and see what I did. If not, and people show interest, I can definetly type of play-by-play instructions on how this guy came together that will go hand in hand with the existing photos.

[justjohn]

2 New Creations:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1112/butcherdx0.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/315/reyneajf0.jpg

Both of these figures are uncommons from Wizard's new game, Dreamblade. As far as the abilities, I think I really went out on a limb with them, and I'm very eager to hear feedback on these 2 new creations.

Updated: Sisters of The Sai
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4120/sistersdefensiveqw2.jpg
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/3681/sistersoffensive9rh.jpg

Lowered the movement for Defenisve Stance side.

Figure used: D&D Mini Dark Moon Monk, it's an uncommon from the Archfiend Set. They can be found for around 2.00 on ebay.

Updated: Dreadguls
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8179/dreadgulsfj8.jpg

Thanks for the help with wording, GB!

Thanks for your time!

[Karkadinn]

Sorry to say it, but IMHO Ahkar and Renyea are both essentially broken.
Ahkar basically gets an almost-can't-fail Chomp 5 times in the game, which means that any armies with high point figures basically instalose.
Renyea reminds me of another pacifist kyrie type back on HQ, IIRC it was done by Raidor but I could be wrong. I didn't like that one either. ;D The problem with Renyea is that if you're facing an enemy army that isn't all range, then all you have to do is take out the range and whittle the army's point value down to less than 160 to get an instawin, since official scenarios play with a 'time out' rule where the army with the most points wins. Also, this is very subjective, but I would say that Jandar's Chosen goes against the basic intentions of the HS designers. There's plenty of loyal, noble heroes and squads who would never betray their general, but the game doesn't have a single unit that insists that you keep to general-themed armies because while theme is fun, forcing you to be thematic isn't fun.

[justjohn]

Do you think the Butcher is unbalanced, even when there is a good chance that everything he "ate" will come back when he dies, which I included in attempts to balance it. I based this guy (somewhat) of of MTG's Faceless Butcher, but attempts at pricing it proved somewhat difficult. Should I lower the amount he can eat? Or should it be more difficult to eat? Or should all things eaten be returned when Ahkar dies?

As for Renyea, yeah, I figured she was going to be somewhat broken. As far as the forced thematic, I did that for several reasons. The main reason was as a downside to playing her. You can't just throw her into any army, only the most noble (Jandar) of armies can take her. Yes, it is unlike the other official units, and I don't think it can be applied to all unit. But I used the forced thematic as a point buffer, otherwise, I think I would have to cost her much, much higher. I probably still have to do that, but, well, you know.

Thanks a ton for your FB Kark. I knew these would be risky, but I really wanna make them work.

[LilNewbie]

JJ,

Glad to see someone using the Dreamblade minis. I've got some in the works too. How did you remove the mini from the Dblade base?

The Butcher is cool but it is very powerful. Maybe a chance for the swallowed figures to escape at the end of each round by rolling a d20 for each figure captured. On a 17 or more place the figure adjacent to the Butcher and the butcher takes a wound.

Renyea is powerful. Wow. I'll have to get back on the critique later.

Newb.

[justjohn]

That's a great idea, Newbie! As far as getting them off of the bases, I only have done 1 figure, and I just snapped the softer plastic out of the harder rim, and cut the figure off of the base (similar to D&D minis).

Here are some proposed changes:
Rewording on Soul Swallow:
If there are less than 5 figures on this card, Ahkar Butcher may attempt to Soul Swallow instead of attacking. Choose a medium or small figure adjacent to Ahkar Butcher and roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 1-4, nothing happens. On a roll of 5 or higher, place that figure on this card. When Ahkar Butcher is destroyed, place all figures on this card on any space within 3 spaces of Ahkar Butcher.

Added Ability: Bust Free
At the begining of each round, a player may attempt to free any figures that were Soul Swallowed. Roll the 20-sided die for each figure. On a roll of 15 or higher, that player places that figure on any space within 3 clear spaces of Ahkar Butcher and Ahkar Butcher recieves 1 wound.

As far as Renyea...

I'm thinking of reducing the range of her ability to 3. Also considering adding a stiplulation that there has to be at least 1 revealed order marker on her card for this ability to activate. I also plan on changing her type so she doesn't benefit from bonding. Lastly, I think I am going to keep the Jandar requirement, because I think it just fits, as well as being a big drawback (in my opinion) for a powerful figure.

What do you guys think?

[justjohn]

Here they are changed:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6483/butcherat0.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4659/reyneavb3.jpg

Ok. So I totally redid Ahka, The Butcher. Made him a little tougher, but with 2 drawbacks. Took away his special, but kept the general idea, but watered it down a bit.

As far as Renyea, I made her Martyr ability manditory (before it was a choice, now it is something she has to do if the roll is made) and took away her total Jandar requirement, and tied it into her Song ability, which I also lowered the range of, from 4 to 3.

[justjohn]

Here they are changed:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6483/butcherat0.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4659/reyneavb3.jpg

Ok. So I totally redid Ahka, The Butcher. Made him a little tougher, but with 2 drawbacks. Took away his special, but kept the general idea, but watered it down a bit.

As far as Renyea, I made her Martyr ability manditory (before it was a choice, now it is something she has to do if the roll is made) and took away her total Jandar requirement, and tied it into her Song ability, which I also lowered the range of, from 4 to 3.