The Book of Nick Fury

[tcglkn]

The Book of Nick Fury

C3G MARVEL WAVE 11
THE AVENGER INITIATIVE

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_NickFury_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_NickFury_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_NickFury_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_NickFury_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Secret Invasion set.
Its model number and name are #051 / Nick Fury.
_________________________________________________________________
Character Bio - Born and raised in the area of New York City known as Hell's Kitchen around 1920, Nicholas Joseph "Nick" Fury is a World War II veteran, having led the famous Howling Commandos, a highly trained first-strike squad, as a sergeant in the United States Army's G-2, or Intelligence, Section. After he was injured by a grenade during the Second World War, he began annual injections of the Infinity Formula, which greatly slowed his aging. This grenade was also the cause of the eye injury that eventually cost him the vision in his left eye. Fury began covering the eye with a cosmetic black eye-patch, which became one of his trademarks, after he lost its vision.

While still in the CIA, he recruited Richard Parker and Mary Parker to rescue Agent Ten. Fury also became the superhero liaison for the superhero family called the Fantastic Four. He was then recruited by Anthony Stark, who is secretly the Invincible Iron Man, to be the next director of SHIELD, an international anti-espionage agency under the aegis of the UN. Under his command, SHIELD became the primary organization in dealings with superhuman activities and forged an alliance with the superhero team known as the Avengers.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Unique Human Hero, Nick Fury may be healed by Alfred Pennyworth's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30311) Field Medic special power.
As an Agent, Nick Fury may avoid leaving engagement attacks from opponent's figures within 5 clear sight spaces of Dum Dum Dugan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34752) with his Diversion special power.Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:
Helicarrier Drop Team - Nick Fury may allow up to 3 Agent figures to start the game off the battlefield due to his Helicarrier Drop Team special power and can activate them with his Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. special power. Current Agents include: Agent Carr (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8276), Agent Skahen (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20771), Gorillinators (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20771), Krav Maga Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8405), Microcorp Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8686), Nakita Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8600).
Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. - If an Agent Hero is chosen to take a turn with instead of Nick Fury then you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. Current Agent Heroes include: Agent Carr (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8276), Agent Skahen (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20771). Current Agent Squads include: Gorillinators (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20771), Krav Maga Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8405), Microcorp Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8686), Nakita Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8600).Marvel:
N/AC3G:
Helicarrier Drop Team - Nick Fury may allow up to 3 Agent figures to start the game off the battlefield due to his Helicarrier Drop Team special power and can activate them with his Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. special power. Current Agents include: Banshee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36414), Black Widow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35363), Dum Dum Dugan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34752), Gorilla-Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37970), Hawkeye (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37583), Iron Man (Stealth Suit) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37052), Mockingbird (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38886), Mystique (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27885), S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32608), S.H.I.E.L.D. Spotter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30384), Skrull Infiltrator (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36626).
Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. - If an Agent Hero is chosen to take a turn with instead of Nick Fury then you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. Current Agent Heroes include: Banshee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36414), Black Widow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35363), Dum Dum Dugan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34752), Gorilla-Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37970), Hawkeye (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37583), Iron Man (Stealth Suit) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37052), Mockingbird (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38886), Mystique (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27885), Nick Fury (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35000), S.H.I.E.L.D. Spotter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30384), Skrull Infiltrator (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36626). Current Agent Squads include: S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32608).
As a Human, Nick Fury allows adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.
As an Agent, Nick Fury may activate Dum Dum Dugan's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34752) Commando Backup special power.________________________________________________________________ _

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Initial Playtest: tcglkn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1359058&postcount=130) Additional tests (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1419648&postcount=273)
Second Playtest: johnny139 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1368540&postcount=218)
Third Playtest: Karat (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1370898&postcount=239)
Art by: tcglkn

[GreyOwl]

NICK FURY

HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
AGENT
DAUNTLESS
MEDIUM 5

LIFE 5
MOVE 5
RANGE 6
ATTACK 4
DEFENSE 4
POINTS: 220

HELICARRIER DROP TEAM
At the start of the game, choose up to 3 other Agent figures in your Army. The chosen figures and Nick Fury are the Helicarrier Drop Team. The Drop Team does not start the game on the battlefield. Once per game, before initiative is rolled, you may place the Drop Team on any empty spaces on the battlefield. You cannot place them adjacent to each other or other figures.

DIRECTOR OF S.H.I.E.L.D.
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn normally with Nick Fury, you may immediately choose one Common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn. Nick Fury may be that chosen hero. If the chosen hero is an Agent, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which unit to activate first.

ADAPTIVE CAMOUFLAGE
For each defense die Nick Fury receives from height advantage or terrain when defending against a non-adjacent attack, Nick Fury receives one additional defense die.

[GreyOwl]

Comic picture ideas:

http://comicrelated.com/graphics/solicits/marvel/oct09/24_DARK_REIGN__THE_LIST___SECRET_WARRIORS_1.jpg

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/f/fb/NickFury_Main.jpg

http://www.iconian.com/fury/gallery/stogie.jpg

http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/nickfury.jpg

[GreyOwl]

Miniature Pics (thanks to Hahma!)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/C3Gfigures091.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/C3Gfigures120.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/C3Gfigures121.jpg

[IAmBatman]

I could see LMD over SHIELD Leader.
The Hellicarrier power already helps him help SHIELD guys and I think SHIELD Snipers would be broken with SHIELD Leader.

[Griffin]

SHIELD Snipers are already broken honestly, or at least grossly undercosted. They should cost about 60 a piece.

GREAT write up GO. This is a great time for C3G. :up:

[GreyOwl]

I could see LMD over SHIELD Leader.
The Hellicarrier power already helps him help SHIELD guys and I think SHIELD Snipers would be broken with SHIELD Leader.

SHIELD Snipers are already broken honestly, or at least grossly undercosted. They should cost about 60 a piece.


So what's the best way to handle that? Adjust the cost of the SHIELD Snipers?

I like both Helicarrier and SHIELD Leader, because the Helicarrier is a one-time only power. SHIELD Leader can be used all the time.

[NecroBlade]

SHIELD Snipers are Snipers and not Agents for a reason, guys...

I could definitely see an LMD power on there, but I like the idea of a possible Uncommon figure or something else in the future as well.

[GreyOwl]

SHIELD Snipers are Snipers and not Agents for a reason, guys...


:oops: Good point!

[NecroBlade]

This is what I wanna see in a SHIELD playtest:

Nick Fury uses SHIELD Leader to move a SHIELD Spotter into position, Dum Dum Dugan to Distract an enemy, freeing a SHIELD Agent to move away, setting up a Kill Box, and next turn a SHIELD Sniper drops the hammer. :twisted:

[Griffin]

Snipers they may be, but at some point, we seriously need to revisit that design, and unless we create a sniper that has a D20 power.... those Spotters need some editing too.

[IAmBatman]

I'm more concerned about how easy Fury will make life for the Spotters. Order Marker management with Snipers and Spotters is the only thing currently holding the Snipers in check, IMO.
Also, I think the power level of the SHIELD Leadership is a bit crazy high unless Black Widow and all future agents are going to be pretty weak. I think he's closer to 260 than 160 as written.

[GreyOwl]

What if SHIELD Leader only worked on Agent squads?

[IAmBatman]

I think that would work. Since the movement is a static move, we need to specify about leaving engagement attacks.

[GreyOwl]

I thought it was assumed that they take leaving engagement attacks unless otherwise specified?

[IAmBatman]

I thought it was assumed that they take leaving engagement attacks unless otherwise specified?

I don't think so. Taelord's original card didn't specify, and you saw what happened with that. In fact, I think it may be assumed that they don't unless otherwise specified. Either way, it's definitely better to specify one way or another, IMO.

[GreyOwl]

So the Gorillinators get Disengage when the Nakita Agents move them? I've never played that way.:confused: I thought Taelord's card was a mistake, not the way the it was supposed to be.

[IAmBatman]

I've definitely heard of people using Jandar's Dispatch to disengage.
I don't really see the downside of spelling it out here, I guess, and I definitely see the upside.

[GreyOwl]

I guess there's no real downside. But have we actually done that on every card we've made?

[GreyOwl]

I've definitely heard of people using Jandar's Dispatch to disengage.

And I think that's being played incorrectly, by the way. The rules clearly say you take leaving engagement strikes when you move away. Unless something explicitly overrides that, I think it's always in effect. The FAQs for Sir Gilbert and the Nakitas make no mention of them being able grant "disengage".

[IAmBatman]

Good question ...

Alfred - yes
Angel - yes
Avalanche - yes
Baron von Strucker - yes
Bodyguard - yes (and first example of one that will take attacks)
Civilians - yes
Commissioner Gordon - yes/no (he doesn't for his Call for Backup power, but probably should!)
Cyclops - no (but we probably should!)
Martian Manhunter - yes
Moleman - yes
Red Tornado - yes
SHIELD Agents - no (but we probably should!)
Sabretooth - no (not sure if we want to or not, since he's moving himself, but Sub Mariner, Superman, and Strong Guy all do with similar powers)

[IAmBatman]

So it seems like:

In cases where a figure moves itself and should take leaving engagement attacks:

2 specify, 1 doesn't

In cases where a figure moves another figure you control and that figure should take leaving engagement attacks:

3 don't specify, 1 does

So we need to figure out a standard approach for this ...

[GreyOwl]

I wonder how the official cards break down in this regard? If they're all one way or the other, that might help figure out which way we should go.

[IAmBatman]

:reapershrug: Something you could research, I suppose.

[Griffin]

The official game has flopped around on whether they reference disengage or not. But I think that if the power on a card moves a figure on the card, it specifies engagement (especially, maybe exclusively, if it is an "instead of moving normally" power - except if that figure also has Disengage on its card). But when a card moves a figure that is NOT on the same card, it is up in the air about disengage, because that card may say "will take leaving engagement attacks" while the figure moved may actually have Disengage and there would be a major contradiction.

So Cyclops and Gordon are OK as is.

[IAmBatman]

We probably shouldn't have it here either, then, because it's likely we'll do an Agent squad with disengage at some point.

[Griffin]

We probably shouldn't have it here either, then, because it's likely we'll do an Agent squad with disengage at some point.
Exactly. I agree completely.

[Griffin]

Plus Mystique is an Agent with Disengage. ;)

[IAmBatman]

Plus Mystique is an Agent with Disengage. ;)

Yeah, but she's not a squad figure.

[Griffin]

Plus Mystique is an Agent with Disengage. ;)

Yeah, but she's not a squad figure.
OK, but how is that relevant? Did I miss a part of the conversation here?

S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may move 3 Agents you control up to 5 spaces each. Then you may choose 3 Agents you control and attack with the chosen Agents.

[IAmBatman]

Yes. You missed part of the conversation where we started talking about restricting it to squad figures as a power check on SHIELD Spotters, etc.

[NecroBlade]

OK, what conversation did *I* miss where Snipers suddenly became broken??

Compared to the official Zetacron, Snipers:
-Have -1 Life
-Have -1 Defense, but Adaptive Camouflage
-Have +1 Range, but are restricted in attacking
-Cost 20 points less (though 20 points more minimum to take advantage of Common status)
-Lack large/huge immunities

And anyway, it's not C3G policy (minor wording clarifications aside) to edit cards after release (see also: Darkseid), nor should it be.

[IAmBatman]

And anyway, it's not C3G policy (minor wording clarifications aside) to edit cards after release (see also: Darkseid), nor should it be.


Which is why I'm not suggesting editing them, just not letting them get any more help (because they don't need it!).

Edit: Were Zetacron in the world of Superheroscape where armies focus on 300-400 point heroes rather than squads, I think he'd be a lot more highly regarded.

[NecroBlade]

Were Zetacron in the world of Superscape where armies focus on 300-400 point heroes rather than squads, he'd also get 1-hit-KO'd just as much as a Sniper.

Also, the Snipers wouldn't be getting help directly anyway. The Spotters might, yes, but that's another 25 points per "combo."

[Spidey'tilIDie]

OK, what conversation did *I* miss where Snipers suddenly became broken??

Compared to the official Zetacron, Snipers:
-Have -1 Life
-Have -1 Defense, but Adaptive Camouflage
-Have +1 Range, but are restricted in attacking
-Cost 20 points less (though 20 points more minimum to take advantage of Common status)
-Lack large/huge immunities

And anyway, it's not C3G policy (minor wording clarifications aside) to edit cards after release (see also: Darkseid), nor should it be.

Man, everybody is so defensive lately. Anyway, its not that they are broken, just that they don't really need a boost. So, we are trying to work it so they don't get one. Simple as that.

[IAmBatman]

That's certainly my take. :reapershrug: But, yeah, Spidey, I think it's C3G's time of the month or something ... :-P But maybe it's just the post-big release mood shift we always seem to go through.

[Griffin]

OK, what conversation did *I* miss where Snipers suddenly became broken??

Compared to the official Zetacron, Snipers:
-Have -1 Life
-Have -1 Defense, but Adaptive Camouflage
-Have +1 Range, but are restricted in attacking
-Cost 20 points less (though 20 points more minimum to take advantage of Common status)
-Lack large/huge immunities

And anyway, it's not C3G policy (minor wording clarifications aside) to edit cards after release (see also: Darkseid), nor should it be.

They are common heroes dude.... you can have an army of them and they are consistently killing more than twice their cost in every game I have played with them. I don't think they are broken, I will retract that over emotional response, but they are more powerful than their cost. To me, that means that their cost needs to go up, or their power level needs to come down. I would suggest dropping their attack to 1.

I am not trying to pick on anyone, and you ought not take the comment personal either, as they are my design as much as yours, and I voted on them as you did. But I didn't playtest them. However, after playing a bunch of games with them lately, they are certainly much better than their little cost of 40 points.

[Griffin]

Btw, Darkseid is minor compared to an Army of SHIELD Snipers. They should cost more than 40 points FOR SURE.

[GreyOwl]

Well, we have made changes to old figures on occasion. But if we're going to discuss whether that's a good idea or not in this particular case, can we please do it in the SHIELD Snipers' thread, or maybe the general discussion thread? :) I'd like to get this thread back to Nick Fury...or at least hold off on Nick Fury if we think we need to make a decision about the Snipers first.

[IAmBatman]

Coincidentally, GoodPig sent me a pm about Nick Fury today, as he had some ideas about a potential direction for him that he wanted to share (he was not aware that we've started Fury).
Here's what I liked most from what he sent:

COVERT OPERATION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:
One Unique Agent;
One Agent squadAdd 1 to the move value of any figure that moves with Covert Operation. Figures that move using Covert Operation do not take leaving engagement attacks.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Coincidentally, GoodPig sent me a pm about Nick Fury today, as he had some ideas about a potential direction for him that he wanted to share (he was not aware that we've started Fury).
Here's what I liked most from what he sent:

COVERT OPERATION


After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:
One Unique Agent;
One Agent squadAdd 1 to the move value of any figure that moves with Covert Operation. Figures that move using Covert Operation do not take leaving engagement attacks.
I am sure you helped tweak the wording, but man I am liking that! :thumbsup:

[IAmBatman]

Well I did take out the part about a turn with one sniper and one spotter, but, yeah ... it's pretty close to what he sent me. :-P
And I think it reads a bit smoother than the current SHIELD Leadership power.
I figure if we went with that, Adaptive Camo (which I really like here), and the Hellicarrier power, then we've got a really nice write up.

[NecroBlade]

I liked the mix-n-match aspect of SHIELD Leader. :shrug: Plus, if he grants disengage, DDD is much less useful.

[IAmBatman]

We could easily scrap the disengage aspect of what's above. I just feel like the "turn" is a lot cleaner overall.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Maybe we could allow them to move with Phantom Walk somehow, but not if they are engaged first. Not sure how to word it, just a thought. Kinda like once camoflauged, they are nearly invisible.

[IAmBatman]

I think Necro's wanting to avoid that type of thing to avoid stepping on Dum Dum Dugan's toes.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

C'mon. Dugan is really just a stand-in for Fury anyway. ;) j/k

[NecroBlade]

There'd really be no reason to ever draft Dugan when you could just get another full squad of Agents who can always disengage.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'm definitely on board with you there. What do you think of the power I posted if we delete the disengagement line, though?

COVERT OPERATION


After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:

* One Unique Agent;
* One Agent squad

Add 1 to the move value of any figure that moves with Covert Operation.

[NecroBlade]

I still like mix-n-match, though, as it's more unique (the one you've posted is very similar to Kato Katsuro) and oplolpo0-0poko0pl;' (sorry, something stuck in my keyboard) helps Dugan set up other Agents in one turn (whereas the Kato-like one will take two turns). Mixing is, of course, also a lot more powerful and would cost a few more points.

[IAmBatman]

Well I'm only good with what's in the OP if it's switched to squad figures only, due to power level and power weirdness concerns (that old question of "how does this affect after moving, before attacking, while attacking, and after attacking" question from our Colossus debate rearing its ugly head again). I think we could probably design agent squads that never have any before/after/during attacking powers, though, potentially ...

[Griffin]

There'd really be no reason to ever draft Dugan when you could just get another full squad of Agents who can always disengage.

:word:

We need to be conscious about giving value to Dugan as well Spidey.

[Griffin]

Well I'm only good with what's in the OP if it's switched to squad figures only, due to power level and power weirdness concerns (that old question of "how does this affect after moving, before attacking, while attacking, and after attacking" question from our Colossus debate rearing its ugly head again). I think we could probably design agent squads that never have any before/after/during attacking powers, though, potentially ...
Can't Dugan and Mystique also fit in there? It is kinda sad if C3G can't create a power that helps out Unique Heroes. If we can't do it, who can?

[IAmBatman]

Well I'm only good with what's in the OP if it's switched to squad figures only, due to power level and power weirdness concerns (that old question of "how does this affect after moving, before attacking, while attacking, and after attacking" question from our Colossus debate rearing its ugly head again). I think we could probably design agent squads that never have any before/after/during attacking powers, though, potentially ...
Can't Dugan and Mystique also fit in there? It is kinda sad if C3G can't create a power that helps out Unique Heroes. If we can't do it, who can?

I think if we go with the version I posted based on GoodPig's suggestions that Unique Heroes would definitely work. I think the "move with 3" "attack with 3" version doesn't work with unique heroes.

[Griffin]

Yeah, after looking at GP's idea, I agree that it is more straight forward than the OP. The only problem I have with the current SHIELD LEADER is that it is not clear whether or not the activated figures can use "before" or "after" turn phase powers, and I don't feel comfortable agreeing now that we should never create them either.

[IAmBatman]

Exactly. I'd go as far as saying I'd be shocked if Black Widow doesn't end up with any after moving, before attacking or after attacking powers ...

[Hahma]

I looked over this somewhat and understand some of the concerns with current Shield Leader.

I will look later to try to help figure something out.

I wouldn't have a problem with him coming in at 200-220 in a similar mold as Kingpin, Red Skull (C3G) and Baron von Strucker. He could have less offensive threat than RS with Cube and BVS and be similar to KP though with less melee threat and more of a ranged threat who's primary threat should be mobility and placement of Agents.

Just my :2cents: for now :)

[GreyOwl]

Yeah, after looking at GP's idea, I agree that it is more straight forward than the OP. The only problem I have with the current SHIELD LEADER is that it is not clear whether or not the activated figures can use "before" or "after" turn phase powers, and I don't feel comfortable agreeing now that we should never create them either.

I agree that we shouldn't decide to never create those types of powers. But couldn't the question of whether before and after turn powers get triggered be addressed in an FAQ (whichever way we decide it should work)?

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, after looking at GP's idea, I agree that it is more straight forward than the OP. The only problem I have with the current SHIELD LEADER is that it is not clear whether or not the activated figures can use "before" or "after" turn phase powers, and I don't feel comfortable agreeing now that we should never create them either.

I agree that we shouldn't decide to never create those types of powers. But couldn't the question of whether before and after turn powers get triggered be addressed in an FAQ (whichever way we decide it should work)?

I think that's going to require a complicated series of FAQs that operate on a per power basis because not all of these powers work the same.
Does no one remember that we spent a long time considering this stuff for Colossus with his Fastball Special but went away from it for concerns of this type of complexity?

[GreyOwl]

Yeah, but (correct me if I'm wrong) didn't Colossus's power affect pretty much everyone? In this case, it would only be Agents that have before/after powers, and most likely only the unique heroes since the squads will likely not have those kinds of powers, as you said. I can't imagine that we'd create that many unique hero Agents with before/after powers, so I was thinking an FAQ would be feasible. :shrug:

[IAmBatman]

Killbox and Tactical Fire, I believe, would both need rulings already.

[IAmBatman]

And I guess, for me, it's not just that they'd require FAQs, it's that I'm not sure what the correct rulings even would be. Sure, we could just make them whatever we want, but that doesn't seem to be designing within the system very well and seems to be more trouble than it's worth overall.

[GreyOwl]

Sure, we could just make them whatever we want, but that doesn't seem to be designing within the system very well and seems to be more trouble than it's worth overall.

Well yeah, that's the tricky part. :) Personally, I think those powers shouldn't apply because you're not actually taking a turn with the other figures. It specifically says to move them. Then later, attack with them. Nothing about taking a turn with them.

[IAmBatman]

I just think it's an area of rules stickiness that I don't want to tread into if there are good alternatives (which I think there are in this case).

[NecroBlade]

Sure, we could just make them whatever we want, but that doesn't seem to be designing within the system very well and seems to be more trouble than it's worth overall.

Well yeah, that's the tricky part. :) Personally, I think those powers shouldn't apply because you're not actually taking a turn with the other figures. It specifically says to move them. Then later, attack with them. Nothing about taking a turn with them.
There's nothing sticky about it at all, this is entirely the correct interpretation. There are plenty of powers in the official game that trigger before or after moving, and plenty of powers that move other figures, and they're all handled exactly the same way.

[GreyOwl]

Actually, I think there are official cards that have created this situation already.

On Sir Gilbert, the "Jandar's Dispatch" power states:

After you take a turn with Sir Gilbert, you may roll 12 Jandar Valkyrie dice. Move up to 4 squad figures you control who follow Jandar up to X spaces. X equals the number of Jandar symbols rolled. Any squad figures moved with Jandar's Dispatch must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Sir Gilbert prior to moving.

Note that Sir Gilbert only moves the squad figures as opposed to taking a turn with them.

The Knights of Weston are a squad that follows Jandar, and they have a "before turn" power, "Human Champion Bonding":

Before taking a turn with the Knights of Weston, you may first take a turn with any Human Champion you control.

Normally, you would place your order marker on the KoW, then use Human Champion Bonding to take a turn with Sir Gilbert, who could then move the KoW again. Then when it comes back to the KoW's turn, they can move (again) and attack to finish out their turn.

BUT...if you do it the other way, and place your order marker on Sir Gilbert, then use Jandar's Dispatch to move the KoW, I'm almost 100% sure that you do not get to use Human Champion Bonding. You'd create an infinite bonding loop if you could.

So, doesn't this answer our question of whether this mechanic has been used before and how to resolve it? Or am I overlooking something?

[IAmBatman]

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples here.
There's a reason the move offered by Sir Gilbert is a static move rather than a "you may move that figure."
Maybe if the agents rolled a static attack it'd be workable? I'm not sure.

[GreyOwl]

I think having a static move would be perfectly fine for SHIELD Leader (especially since that's how it already is ;) ), though I'm not sure I see why it would make a difference. I think the key is "moving" them vs. taking a "turn" with them.

[IAmBatman]

Where in an "after moving, before attacking" power trigger does the word "turn" enter into play?
Oye. I'm getting ready to give up on this conversation and just vote my feelings when the time comes. I've done my best to show why this direction can get dangerously muddy and I've done my best to offer a different direction for this that can still be fun without having that muddiness. I feel like I'm spinning my tires here.

[GreyOwl]

I was going off Griffin's post where he mentioned before/after turn powers, but I see now that in your posts you mentioned before/after moving or attacking.

Yeah, after looking at GP's idea, I agree that it is more straight forward than the OP. The only problem I have with the current SHIELD LEADER is that it is not clear whether or not the activated figures can use "before" or "after" turn phase powers, and I don't feel comfortable agreeing now that we should never create them either.

[IAmBatman]

Yes, before/after attacking powers is the key.
Also, though, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that existing powers both in Valhalla and Superscape that allow you to move a figure on another figure's turn all have static moves. I'm sure there's a good reason for that standard.

[GreyOwl]

The version of SHIELD Leader in the OP already has a static move, so that's not really an issue though.

How about taking GP's idea, and tweaking it a little to give a flavor closer to what Necro suggested (being able to move one squad/hero, then attacking with either the same ones or other ones)? It would be more powerful, but that might be okay, or we can compensate elsewhere if need be.


After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:

* One Unique Agent;
* One Agent squad

After using SHIELD Leader, you may use it one additional time.

[Griffin]

I will never support any power that only translates clearly or functions clearly with an FaQ. To me, that shows a lack of talent and care.

[NecroBlade]

The version of SHIELD Leader in the OP already has a static move, so that's not really an issue though.

How about taking GP's idea, and tweaking it a little to give a flavor closer to what Necro suggested (being able to move one squad/hero, then attacking with either the same ones or other ones)? It would be more powerful, but that might be okay, or we can compensate elsewhere if need be.


After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:

* One other Unique Agent Hero;
* One Agent squad

After using SHIELD Leader, you may use it one additional time.


:ponder: Now that is interesting. Power level's going to be pretty high on this, too (double hero turns and double quad turns). Currently you could also take two turns in a row with the same figures. What if it was this?

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one other Agent Hero you control and one Agent squad you control.

[Hahma]

The version of SHIELD Leader in the OP already has a static move, so that's not really an issue though.

How about taking GP's idea, and tweaking it a little to give a flavor closer to what Necro suggested (being able to move one squad/hero, then attacking with either the same ones or other ones)? It would be more powerful, but that might be okay, or we can compensate elsewhere if need be.


After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:

* One other Unique Agent Hero;
* One Agent squad

After using SHIELD Leader, you may use it one additional time.


:ponder: Now that is interesting. Power level's going to be pretty high on this, too (double hero turns and double quad turns). Currently you could also take two turns in a row with the same figures. What if it was this?

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one other Agent Hero you control and one Agent squad you control.

That's a direction I had been thinking of during the day today after checking on this earlier. It would void previous concerns about before moving /after moving stuff. I like it better than either a Hero or an Agent Squad as he is giving up his turn and basically gives it to another Agent Hero if there is one left and one Agent Squad if there are any left. So that leaves the opponent the decision of trying to take Fury out to stop this power or take out an Agent Hero to weaken this power or take out the Agent Squads to also weaken this power. It give move choices for both players in the game. Agent Heroes aren't going to be 250-400 point units, they could be 50-180 pointers give or take.

I agree that the double Hero turns or double Squad turns would be overpowered and really make Fury that much more swingy because after the Drop, that power's done with and it really forces him that much more to be with Agents (Heroes and Squads) and when they start going down ,his value falls dramatically.

[GreyOwl]

The version of SHIELD Leader in the OP already has a static move, so that's not really an issue though.

How about taking GP's idea, and tweaking it a little to give a flavor closer to what Necro suggested (being able to move one squad/hero, then attacking with either the same ones or other ones)? It would be more powerful, but that might be okay, or we can compensate elsewhere if need be.


After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:

* One other Unique Agent Hero;
* One Agent squad

After using SHIELD Leader, you may use it one additional time.


:ponder: Now that is interesting. Power level's going to be pretty high on this, too (double hero turns and double quad turns). Currently you could also take two turns in a row with the same figures. What if it was this?

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one other Agent Hero you control and one Agent squad you control.

Works for me.

[Griffin]

The version of SHIELD Leader in the OP already has a static move, so that's not really an issue though.

How about taking GP's idea, and tweaking it a little to give a flavor closer to what Necro suggested (being able to move one squad/hero, then attacking with either the same ones or other ones)? It would be more powerful, but that might be okay, or we can compensate elsewhere if need be.


After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:

* One other Unique Agent Hero;
* One Agent squad

After using SHIELD Leader, you may use it one additional time.


:ponder: Now that is interesting. Power level's going to be pretty high on this, too (double hero turns and double quad turns). Currently you could also take two turns in a row with the same figures. What if it was this?

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one other Agent Hero you control and one Agent squad you control.

Works for me.
Cool with me too. It gives Hero Bonding to Agent Squads. 8) Should there be a line in there about choosing which one to take a turn with first like on Kato's card? Or should we specify what order the turns should be in? Also, would it be crazy if Nick Fury could actually be the chosen Agent Hero? I kinda like him having the flexibility of choosing the order in which to take turns and also the ability to be included in the bonding.

[GreyOwl]

I think the order shouldn't be specified, so it remains more flexible. I think it would work to let Nick Fury be one of the heroes - the "after revealing an order marker" clause would prevent an infinite loop, so I don't see an issue.

[IAmBatman]

I think the "instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury" would make that aspect realllly confusing, though. I'd kind of prefer he not be an option for the bonding ... and to maybe change his class to something like "Director."
I really like this direction overall, though, but I think I'd also like it if the heroes were Unique Heroes only, fwiw.

[GreyOwl]

I think the "instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury" would make that aspect realllly confusing, though.

What if it was worded as "Instead of taking this turn with Nick Fury..."?

[IAmBatman]

I think the "instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury" would make that aspect realllly confusing, though.

What if it was worded as "Instead of taking this turn with Nick Fury..."?

I don't know ... I'm not the rules lawyer of the group, but the concept makes my head hurt a lil. :-P

[Griffin]

I would have to see a write up, but it is sounding like that idea is murky in terms of clarity.

[GreyOwl]

I would have to see a write up, but it is sounding like that idea is murky in terms of clarity.

I thought you were the one thinking about including Nick Fury? But I was thinking something like this:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking this turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Agent Hero you control and one Agent squad you control.

I don't see how that would be dicey, because the first time you reveal the order marker and use the power. Then you pick Nick Fury as your hero and take a turn, but on that turn you have no order marker to reveal, so you can't use that power. I think it's pretty straightforward. :shrug:

[Griffin]

I would have to see a write up, but it is sounding like that idea is murky in terms of clarity.

I thought you were the one thinking about including Nick Fury? But I was thinking something like this:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking this turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Agent Hero you control and one Agent squad you control.I don't see how that would be dicey, because the first time you reveal the order marker and use the power. Then you pick Nick Fury as your hero and take a turn, but on that turn you have no order marker to reveal, so you can't use that power. I think it's pretty straightforward. :shrug:
Just as a bit of preemptive ERBing, you could use their insight now and send them that power to see what they say. I am guessing that almost everyone will wonder if it is your intention or not to have Nick be activated by that power or not.

I would like like to see him part of the power though. Let me give a crack at it.

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.That is clear and the "activation" text is from Kato Katsuro.

[GreyOwl]

I'm perfectly fine with your wording for that, I'm not married to my wording. :) I didn't consider including Nick Fury in the power, but when you mentioned it, it sounded cool!

[IAmBatman]

Wouldn't this be less open to Rules Lawyering bonding loops ... ?

COVERT OPERATIONS
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may either take a turn with one Agent Squad you control before taking a turn with Nick Fury, or take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury.

[Griffin]

Wouldn't this be less open to Rules Lawyering bonding loops ... ?

COVERT OPERATIONS
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may either take a turn with one Agent Squad you control before taking a turn with Nick Fury, or take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury.
I really don't see how this has bonding loops in it, no more than double attack to be sure:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.
Also, this reads a LOT cleaner to me.

[IAmBatman]

So you don't think that it's a bit of a mindscrew to say, essentially, instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury you may take a turn with Nick Fury?

[Griffin]

No, I think it is very clear what the power allows and does not allow.

[IAmBatman]

I'm not saying the power is unclear, I'm saying it's mechanically clear and grammatically nonsensical.

[IAmBatman]

Maybe something like ...

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with Nick Fury normally, you may take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

or

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

I predict you will hate both of those suggestions, though. :-P

[IAmBatman]

Or, hey, to piggyback on official powers a bit more:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of moving and attacking normally with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

Nowhere does it tell you to "choose an Agent Hero," though ... it says you can choose which to activate first, but that's well after when you should've "chosen" the hero if you're going to refer to Nick Fury as the chosen Hero. So that wording is really muddy in a few places, IMO.

[Griffin]

How about now:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Agent Squad you control and one Agent Hero you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

That seems to be a typical official solution to "turn phases" that are not normal.

[Griffin]

Holy Sh!T :ninja: of the year.

[IAmBatman]

I still think the "chosen" part needs to be worked out, but I think "normal turn" is the right direction.

[GreyOwl]

I'll let you guys work out the wording...

Do we really want to limit it to Agent heroes? Nick Fury directs and gives "orders" to many others, like Captain America, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc.

[IAmBatman]

At best I could see widening it to Soldiers too ... unless we're going for a full on Master Manipulator take, but basically letting the SHIELD Agents bond with any hero in the game seems like it'd be reallllly expensive.

[NecroBlade]

Maybe letting you choose an honorary Agent at the start of the game...but then we're really adding wording complexity.

[GreyOwl]

Hmmm...it would be shame to not have Nick Fury/Avengers synergy.

I'm not sure how the wording would be, but I wonder if we make it so you can take a turn with any unique hero, but you only get to take the turn with the squad if the hero was an Agent?

[GreyOwl]

Maybe like this?

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one Unique Hero you control. If the Unique Hero is an Agent, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

I'm not sure if the squad was really supposed to be any squad, or just an agent squad. It was any squad in Griffin's wording, but I thought we were trying to exclude the snipers, so I changed it to Agent Squad.

[NecroBlade]

Juicy. I like it.

[IAmBatman]

After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may choose one Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. If the chosen Unique Hero is an Agent, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

I think that might just do the trick!

[GreyOwl]

Awesome! First post updated to that wording.

[IAmBatman]

Well, with Griff in the wings on Captain Marvel and Vision looking like he's going to need a bit more time in the design phase, I could start on this guy next if everyone is happy with this take on him. :-)

[GreyOwl]

The only thing I'm still iffy on is his personality. I mean, he is aggressive, but that seems kind of boring for Nick Fury. I couldn't come up with anything better, though. :confused:

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... Bold? Confident? Calculating? Clever? Conniving? Cunning? Dauntless? Determined? Tricky? Resolute?
I went through our list of current personalities (and added in Dauntless). Those are the only ones that really stood out as possibilities.
Do any of them strike a chord?
Of them, I think I like Cunning, Dauntless, and Resolute the best.

[SirGalahad]

Dauntless is very cool!

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Calculating. Nick Fury is never without a back-up plan. His back-up plans have back-up plans and those have contingency plans! Maybe Scheming?

[IAmBatman]

I thought that Cunning was kind of like Calculating with a slightly more positive connotation.

[GreyOwl]

I like both Cunning and Dauntless.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, me too ... So far, Kingpin is Cunning, and no C3G unit is Dauntless. I think I would lean towards Dauntless, then, so he'd be unique.

[tcglkn]

Love this guy. Let me think about the personality for a bit. Dauntless certainly fits. :ponder:

[IAmBatman]

It's got my vote right now. :-)

[Good Pig]

I think Determined is the best fit.

After reading most of Secret Warriors, one thing is clear Nick Fury is a man on a mission and no one is going to get in his way.

[tcglkn]

I think Determined is the best fit.

After reading most of Secret Warriors, one thing is clear Nick Fury is a man on a mission and no one is going to get in his way.

Dauntless fits what you just described as well. :shrug: I still prefer Dauntless.

[IAmBatman]

Current units who are Determined - John Stewart, Magneto, Wonder Woman, Black Canary, Cyclops, and Speedy ... yeah, he does feel like he fits that group.
I think Dauntless and Determined are pretty close.

Edit: And I still prefer Dauntless as well. :-P

[A3n]

I can go either way Dauntless or Determined.

[tcglkn]

I like Dauntless so unless someone is vehemently opposed to it and has good reasons, if someone could update the OP for me that'd be great. I should be able to do this Initial tomorrow.

EDIT: Today since it's after midnight. :p

[Good Pig]

Is this design still open to ability suggestions?

I had a PM I'd sent Bats for a design idea I'd had for Nick Fury a few days ago, before seeing this thread.

[tcglkn]

I'm fairly happy with it as is, but it can't hurt to share your idea. :D

[Good Pig]

Nick Fury
Human
Director
Determined
Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 6
Attack 4
Defense 4
Points 180?

COVERT OPERATION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and before taking a turn with Nick Fury, you may take a turn with one of the following that you control:

One Agent hero;
One Sniper hero;
One Agent squad;

Add 1 to the move value of any figure that moves with Covert Operation. Figures that move using Covert Operation do not take leaving engagement attacks.

HELICARRIER DROP
Instead of moving normally with Nick Fury, you may choose an empty space within 8 clear sight spaces of Nick Fury. Place Nick Fury on this space and place any Agent or Sniper figures you control on an empty space adjacent to him. Helicarrier Drop may only be used once per game.

[Good Pig]

I've edited it a tad since talking to Bats, since using a Sniper and Spotter in the same turn would be broken.

The part about Covert Operation (other than the name) that I really like is that it would give all agents and snipers disengage without having to list it on their own card.

[tcglkn]

Helicarrier Drop Team and S.H.E.I.L.D. Leader pretty much does both these things better for me. :shrug: I think we have a solid idea here that I will move forward with.

[Good Pig]

Helicarrier Drop Team and S.H.E.I.L.D. Leader pretty much does both these things better for me. :shrug: I think we have a solid idea here that I will move forward with.

Yeah, you're right. After reading over the abilities, the OP versions of both powers are better. I guess the disengage with +1 move is really the only difference.

[Griffin]

What do you guys think about Decisive?

Dauntless suggests someone like Dare Devil or a Green Lantern, one who has controlled fear. Nick Fury is more about making smart decisions even in the face of immediate danger. He is a great leader because of his experience and ability to make tough choices/decisions. I really like DECISIVE.

[IAmBatman]

I like Decisive, but I'm not sure if I like it better than Dauntless.
GP - we talked about going with the disengage at one point, but we felt it would step on Dum Dum Dugan's toes too much and make him not really worth drafting.

[Good Pig]

Good point. I just looked at Dum Dum and figured as much. I think the SHIELD teams is going to kick some serious butt with him and Fury. :)

[IAmBatman]

Yep. Hopefully someone will draft Black Widow soon as well. :-D

[tcglkn]

Hey don't be giving away my next draft. :p

[tcglkn]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Nick Fury

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass, I totally feel like I am playing the leader of a secret agency.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass, works great with the Agents

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass, Helicarrier Drop Team could potentially be confused into allowing him to teleport once per round. I know the Airborne Elite set a precident here, but I think this needs to be clarified.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass, probably gonna make the SHEILD Agents my number 1 army choice.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass, but this was with him alone so I think 180-200 points is gonna be better for him in armies.

TEST 1
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Green Arrow (Oliver) (150)
Nick Fury won with 1 wound.
Helicarrier dropped Nick on the wall so GA had to shoot at him while he tried to advance, but Nick had 6 defense.

TEST 2
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Iceman (150)
Nick Fury with 3 wounds

TEST 3
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Venom (150)
Venom with 2 wounds

TEST 4
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Spider-man (160)
Spidey with 2 wounds

TEST 5
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Blob (165)
Nick with no wounds Nick was able to kill Blob before he could even touch him.

TEST 6
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Mystique (165)
Nick with 4 wounds Closest match yet. I think Nick would prefer Mystique on his team. 8)

TEST 7
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Huntress (170)
Huntress with 3 wounds.

TEST 8
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Electro (135)
Nick with 3 wounds

TEST 9
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Punisher (180)
Punisher for the win with 1 wound.

TEST 10
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Flash (250)
Flash with 2 wounds Just trying to see how Nick did against a figure that could catch him on height quickly.

_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass, he certainly feels close when he is facing off alone, but 180-200 is gonna be his cost most likely.
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS SHEILD Agents + 1 (~146)
Nick with 4 wounds. Nick's Adaptive Camouflage and the fact that he started on height (no Killbox) gave him an advantage here. 1 extra Agent would have probably won it.
_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass, going to test him at 180 in army tests
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (160) VS Hydra Agents x2 (160)
Hydra Agents with 3 left. numbers won this for the Hydra.
_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass, having Nick use both Mystique and a squad of SHEILD Agents is a brutal combo. Drop really helped the Agents set up an early Killbox. I think he might need to go up more, but the Agents were just hot on the dice. In the last two rounds, they rolled at least 3 skulls in every attack.
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (180), SHEILD Agents x6 and Mystique (1005 points) VS Dr. Doom C3G, Doombots x3 and Super Skrull (1000)
10 SHEILD Agents won
Nick chooses 3 SHEILD Agents to be in his Drop Team.
R1 - Super Skrull advances. Agents advance. Super Skrull's attack is blocked. Agent's attacks are all blocked. Super Skrull kills an Agent. Agents fan out and give Super Skrull 2 wounds.

R2 - Nick and 1 squad of Agents drop on the Warhouse Ruin and Castle Wall closest to Super Skrull. Super Skrull wins initiative and disengages and kills an Agent. Nick lets Mystique engage Super Skrull but she doesn't attack (to avoid Bounce Back), Agents roll 6 skulls on their Killbox SA, Super Skrull took 3 wounds (1 life left). Super Skrull goes after Nick and Nick takes 1 wound. Nick attacks Super Skrull and is blocked, 2 Agents attack Super Skrull, one dies to Bounce Back and the other is blocked. Nick blocks Super Skrull's attack. Nick sends Mystique to attack Doom from range, who blocks. 2 Agents advance to back up Nick, and another puts 1 wound on Doom.

R3 - Nick took 1 wound and 1 Knockback from Super Skrull. This gave him one wound from Falling Damage. Agents put 1 wound on Doom and kill Super Skrull. Mystique's attack is blocked. Doom gives Mystique 2 wounds. Doom blocks Mystique's attack. Agents give Doom 3 wounds from height. Doom kills an Agent with his normal attack then his Manhole Cover toss whiffs. Agents get a Killbox on Doom, but he blocks 5 skulls. Mystique advances and kills a Doombot in it's startzone.

R4 - Mystique engages the last 2 Doombots and wounds one. Agents get another 5 skull Killbox that's blocked by Doom. Doom kills an Agent and gets on height. Mystique kills another Doombot. Doom's attack on an Agent is blocked. Mystique whiffs and the Agents are blocked. Doom kills an Agent.

R5 - Mystique's attack is blocked. An Agent kills Doom but it was just a Decoy. Mystique is shocked by the sudden appearance of Doom and gets killed. Agents advance. Nick advances. Doom kills Nick Fury. OM3 lost on Nick. Doom's attack on an Agent is blocked and his Drain fails.

R6 - Agents put 2 wounds on Doom. Doom's attack is blocked but he Drains the Agent and takes a wound off. Agents put 3 wounds on Doom. Doom kills an Agent but there is no one to Drain. Agents kill Doom.

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. PASS, This is a tough army but not unbeatable. I had Nick out of the way directing his troops so the other Army couldn't reach him in time. I think me not having played any of the units in the Hyrda army really gave Nick's army an advantage too.
Map: X Mark the Spot
Units: Nick Fury (180) Dum Dum (90) and SHEILD Agents x4 (710 points) VS Madame HYDRA, HYDRA Agents x3, Baron von Strucker, Hired Guns (720 points)
Nick Fury, 1 squad of SHEILD Agents and Dum Dum Dugan w/ 3w win the game.
(Nick, Dum Dum, and 2 Agents start on Nick's card)
R1 - SHEILD Agents advance. Hydra Agents and Madame Hydra advance. SHEILD Agents kill 2 Hydra. Hyrda Agents are blocked but Madame Hydra kills a SHEILD Agent. SHEILD Agents kill 2 Hydra Agents. Hydra Agents kill 1 SHEILD Agent, Madame Hydra starts climbing the wall.

R2 - Nick and his Agents drop above Madame Hydra. Dum Dum gives Madame Hydra 2 wounds then the Agents kill Madame Hydra and 1 Hydra Agent. SHEILD Agents block all of the Hydra Agent's attacks but Baron Von Strucker kills one SHEILD Agent. SHEILD Agents kill 1 Hydra Agent then Dum Dum kills another. Hyrda Agents and Baron each kill 1 SHEILD Agent. SHEILD Agents kill 1 Hydra Agent and Dum Dum's attack is blocked by Baron. SHEILD Agents block both the Hydra Agents and Baron.

R3 - Hydra Agents kill 1 SHEILD Agent and Baron advances. Dum Dum gives Baron 2 wounds. SHEILD Agents give Baron 1 wound and kill 1 Hydra Agent. Hired Guns advance. Dum Dum kills 1 Hired Gun. SHEILD Agents kill 1 Hydra Agent. Hired Guns give Dum Dum 3 wounds and kill 1 SHEILD Agent. SHEILD Agents kill 1 Hired Gun.

R4 - Hired Guns kill 2 SHEILD Agents. Dum Dum kills 1 Hired Gun and 1 Hydra Agent. SHEILD Agents kill 1 Hydra Agent. Both of the last Hired Gun's attack are blocked. SHEILD Agents kill the last Hired Gun.

[IAmBatman]

Ah, you can't buy that kind of initiative. :-D Nice work, Tickle!

[IAmBatman]

He seems like he's worth 160 points without synergies. I think he goes up to at least 180 with them, and maybe more!

[Good Pig]

Ah, you can't buy that kind of initiative. :-D Nice work, Tickle!

Tickle's da man. :up:

He seems like he's worth 160 points without synergies. I think he goes up to at least 180 with them, and maybe more!

Definitely. A test where Nick takes all Agent heroes with him (for the Hellicarrier Drop) would be interesting.

[tcglkn]

Please note that per a conversation with Griff, I am using his Drop power in each of these tests so he had been starting on a the Warehouse closest to the opponent every game.

[IAmBatman]

Well, yeah, of course. :-) He's still going to cost a lot more when he can bring other Agents into the mix!

[tcglkn]

I wasn't arguing, I'll continue testing him at 180 cause I do think he is a very solid Hero with his synergies.

[tcglkn]

Please update the OP with this:
Comic Art
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/430378-Nick%20Fury_Leinil%20Yu04var.jpg
(I'll need to work on the shoulders but it's my favorite and it goes with the mini)

Mini Background Suggestion (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/314/c/1/light_at_the_end_by_mad_litratos-d32k0ic.jpg)

This mini info:
The figure used for this unit is a HeroClix figure from the Clobberin Time set.
Its model number and name are 086/Nick Fury.

Dauntless personality

And Initial Playtest tcglkn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1359058&postcount=130)

[IAmBatman]

Please update the OP with this:
Comic Art
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/430378-Nick%20Fury_Leinil%20Yu04var.jpg
(I'll need to work on the shoulders but it's my favorite and it goes with the mini)

Mini Background Suggestion (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/314/c/1/light_at_the_end_by_mad_litratos-d32k0ic.jpg)

This mini info:
The figure used for this unit is a HeroClix figure from the Clobberin Time set.
Its model number and name are 086/Nick Fury.

Dauntless personality

And Initial Playtest tcglkn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1359058&postcount=130)

Got it. :-)

[tcglkn]

Updated with the squad tests I ran yesterday. When I test him in armies, I'm gonna use him at 180 points, but I could see him being worth up to 200. I'm ok with that for Nick and really just want to make sure his cost gets balanced for how he is now. :D

[NecroBlade]

S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may choose one Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. If the chosen Unique Hero is an Agent, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.
Just a quick comment on this power since Nick is still bouncing around in my head and the common SHIELD heroes feel totally out of place since they don't actually synergize...what about this change?

S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may choose one Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. If the chosen Unique Hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

That way the same Heroes (unique agents) will give you the bonus squad turn, without doing so with the common SHIELD heroes. And yet they'll synergize, without boosting their power (which Grif is totally against) since there's no difference between this and putting an OM on their card (except the flexibility, which is what Nick's power is all about anyway).

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'd be in favor of that change. I also was disliking how the Spotter and Sniper were feeling like such marginal parts of the faction.

[GreyOwl]

Allowing any hero would include Event Heroes, though. That should be excluded for sure.

[tcglkn]

Yeah, I'd be in favor of that change. I also was disliking how the Spotter and Sniper were feeling like such marginal parts of the faction.
:word:
Allowing any hero would include Event Heroes, though. That should be excluded for sure.
:word:

What about limiting it to Unique Heroes and if you choose an Agent, you can use either 1 common Agent squad or 2 common Agent heroes?

[tcglkn]

Guess I can send out some ERB anytime here as well.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'd be in favor of that change. I also was disliking how the Spotter and Sniper were feeling like such marginal parts of the faction.
:word:
Allowing any hero would include Event Heroes, though. That should be excluded for sure.
:word:

What about limiting it to Unique Heroes and if you choose an Agent, you can use either 1 common Agent squad or 2 common Agent heroes?

No. Bad idea to let you use a unique hero and 2 common agent heroes at the same time. :-P Part of how we're trying to work this is to keep the power level of the Spotter/Sniper combo in check.
If a Sniper is given a turn through this power, it should be taking a turn by itself - that's the design goal here.

[tcglkn]

Ok 1 common hero. Snipers are good enough anyways. It just gives them flexibility.

[IAmBatman]

How about ...

S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may choose one common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

[tcglkn]

I like it. :thumbsup:

[Good Pig]

Cool. :up: I like getting the spotter and sniper in the mix. :)

[tcglkn]

Using Bats suggested wording, I sent out ERB PMs to Matt Helm and Sherman. I'll wait till we hammer out this power before running the army tests since it didn't affect how he was run in the HH and Squad tests.

[Good Pig]

One last tweak idea...just in case there was a cool idea in the future for another common agent hero besides the Spotter.

S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may choose one common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.

[tcglkn]

I like restricting it to Unique so you are forced draft some in your army with Nick to get the full benefit. Remember you can activate Nick, but hopefully Black Widow or Dum Dum are good options

[Good Pig]

Well Nick Fury will always be in that army ;)

[tcglkn]

Just thought of this. The theme is the Agent Hero is leading the SHIELD Agents. Should a Spotter be leading the Agents? I don't think they should.

[Griffin]

Guess I can send out some ERB anytime here as well.
You can. The ERB is now a tool that LDs should use at any time they want fresh eyes to give feed back. However, I personally need a day or two longer before I vote to move forward.

[IAmBatman]

Just thought of this. The theme is the Agent Hero is leading the SHIELD Agents. Should a Spotter be leading the Agents? I don't think they should.

I don't either. :-D Another reason I like what I wrote. :-P

[tcglkn]

Just thought of this. The theme is the Agent Hero is leading the SHIELD Agents. Should a Spotter be leading the Agents? I don't think they should.

I don't either. :-D Another reason I like what I wrote. :-P

Let's get what you wrote in the OP. :D Thanks.

[IAmBatman]

Done. :-)

[A3n]

Should ADAPTIVE CAMOUFLAGE say "terrain bonus" ?

Also does a shadow tile count as a terrain?

[IAmBatman]

Well, the text is taken directly from SHIELD Sniper:

For each defense die S.H.I.E.L.D. Sniper receives from height advantage or terrain when defending against a non-adjacent attack, S.H.I.E.L.D. Sniper receives one additional defense die.

And shadow tile is terrain, yes.

[tcglkn]

Yeah if we change it here, we have to change it on two other released cards.

I'm just waiting on some ERB responses from Matt Helm and Sherman Davies. Hopefully those come in tonight and I can run 2-3 army tests tomorrow morning.

[IAmBatman]

I think we might actually want to have a conversation at some point about those other two released cards anyway, since some concerns have been raised about them.

[tcglkn]

I think they need to be reworked in some way. The Sniper should cost at least 50 points, but we can discuss that somewhere else.

[IAmBatman]

Agreed.

[Good Pig]

Can you do something else for the comic art for him?

What's in the OP is horrible. Looks like a fan made colored pencil drawing.

[tcglkn]

Can you do something else for the comic art for him?

What's in the OP is horrible. Looks like a fan made colored pencil drawing.

I like what's there but other than whats in the second (third?) post, what do you think of these?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/680347-fury_in_color.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33806/1514627-12_newavnv2009_cov_col.jpg

[Good Pig]

How about this one? :lol:

Don't Hassel the Hoff

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/N_Fury.jpg

[Good Pig]

That second one you posted with him looking through the scope is cool, or this one with some photoshop work.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/201007/83_SECRET_WARRIORS_18.jpg

[tcglkn]

I like the one with the gun as well. Just a little photoshopping on the scope to get those people out of it.

[IAmBatman]

I like the scope pic.

[tcglkn]

Is there a limit on the amount of time we have to wait on ERB responses now? It's been about 36 hours and I haven't gotten any responses.

[IAmBatman]

I'd wait 48 and if you don't hear anything yet, go ahead and start on an initial. We have sooo much stuff in playtesting right now that there's no hurry.

[tcglkn]

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad317/tcglkn/C3G%20Art%20and%20Stuff/NickFurycopy.jpg

Here we go. I have the full sized version on my computer since photobucket compresses.

[SirGalahad]

I'm not convinced about the scope pic. Yes it's cool, but it makes him seem like a Sniper.

[tcglkn]

Hey Bats,

I talked to Griff yesterday and he brought up the idea of me giving the ERB a try and that you guys are doing it in the design phase instead of after initial playtesting. I said I'd give it a shot and see how it goes just as long as it's not for every single design that comes out, because that would be kind of overload.

Anyway, I happened to be checking out Nick Fury and saw that you didn't have any ERB responses yet, so I thought I'd pm you a thought I had on it, just for practice.

I'd seen everything before and liked it, the only thing that was changed from before is SHIELD Leader. Reading it for the first time, it seemed a bit odd to me, so I thought I'd at least offer my first practice ERB for what it's worth.

S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a normal turn with Nick Fury, you may choose one common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which to activate first. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero.Now I don't know if technically the "instead of taking a normal turn" line is needed or not, but if it isn't, my thoughts on a change are below. To me anyway, it seems less confusing with "normal turn" and having "Nick Fury ....." at the end of the power. To me, it would be nice having it mentioned sooner. I'm sure you guys have discussed this and looked at it pretty close, but I thought I'd offer an outsiders view. :D
S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may immediately choose one common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. Nick Fury may be the chosen Agent Hero. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose with unit to activate first.
Cheer,

Hahma

Yeah, there's some kind of strange turn/not turn self-bonding going on with this power, which is why I think we were going with the "normal turn" wording there.
I think what you've got there could do the trick, though, with one small tweak:

S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may immediately choose one common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. Nick Fury may be the chosen hero. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose with unit to activate first.

I'm going to copy the LD, Tickle, in on this and see what he thinks. :-) I'll let him be the one to post anything he takes from this.

Thanks for the help!
Bats

I think you have it there, Hahma. That power is a bit weird cause he bonds with himself and there aren't any powers like that. Thanks, I'll try not to overload you with PMs. I plan on cycling through the list so you'll get about 1/4 of my LDs.

Tickle

[tcglkn]

Can we make this update?
S.H.I.E.L.D. LEADER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may immediately choose one Common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. Nick Fury may be the chosen hero. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose with unit to activate first.

[IAmBatman]

To Sir G: Good point. It doesn't really fit the theme of the card.

[IAmBatman]

Updated.

[tcglkn]

I still like the art in the OP and it matches the Mini I selected which matches the SHIELD Agents. :shrug:

[IAmBatman]

Well, we've got one ERB response at least ... how long until the 48 hours expires? :-)

[tcglkn]

48 hours passes at about 1:30. I'll finish the initial tonight.

[IAmBatman]

Cool. :-) Sounds like a plan!

[tcglkn]

Nick needs to be tested with SHIELD Snipers and Spotters since he can activate Spotters, but I don't know if I feel comfortable using them in a playtest right now? Best course of action?

[IAmBatman]

Do you feel comfortable putting this guy on hold, since he's not due to be released for a bit anyway and it might be nice to have Dum Dum finished to test with him anyway, and then maybe devoting some time to leading the charge on doing some additional testing for the Snipers?
That seems like the best course of action.

[tcglkn]

I can run some additional tests with the Snipers today. What do you want run with them?

[IAmBatman]

I trust your judgment. :-)

[tcglkn]

Added 1st army test.

[IAmBatman]

Good points about Helicarrier Drop. It's meant to be used only once per game, but it lacks that specific wording ...

HELICARRIER DROP TEAM
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 3 Agents you control to be part of the Helicarrier Drop Team. Nick Fury and the chosen Agents do not start the game on the battlefield. Once per game, before initiative is rolled at the start of a round, you may place Nick Fury and the chosen Agents on any empty spaces on the battlefield. You may not place them adjacent to any figures.

How's that look?

Nick is looking really dangerous thus far. I think with the amount of help he gives to an already very competitive squad, 200 points might be the magic number here.

[tcglkn]

Looks perfect. :thumbsup:

Yea he really performs well I'll have to see what the second army test gives me later. Although I may change the army it faces as Hawkman/girl really aren't good against squadies at all.

[IAmBatman]

You should try them against HYDRA.

[tcglkn]

SHEILD vs HYDRA. I like it. Why didn't I think of that? :p

[IAmBatman]

Madame HYDRA, HYDRA Agents x2, Baron von Strucker, Hired Guns, Body Guards x4 = 700.
If you want to go for 720, swap the Body Guards for another set of HYDRA Agents.
If you want to go 710, wait a tick, and replace Strucker with Red Skull. :-)

[tcglkn]

Alright I think he is ok at 200 points. I think a good player could get more out of him thought. Certainly a solid A unit here.

[IAmBatman]

200 looks like a good place to put him going into Playtesting. :-)

[tcglkn]

I was giving people more time to read it but I propose we more Nick Fury to playtesting @ 200 points.

[SirGalahad]

yea

[Good Pig]

Have glyphs been considered for Helicarrier Drop Team?

From Airborne Elite:

You cannot place them adjacent to each other or other figures, or on Glyphs.

[tcglkn]

Spaces with Glyphs are not considered empty spaces. ;)

[Good Pig]

Spaces with Glyphs are not considered empty spaces. ;)

Is that in the rule book? I thought an empty space meant another figure wasn't already occupying it.

[tcglkn]

What is an “empty” space?
An empty space is any space that does not have a figure, glyph, tree, or any other obstacle on it.


The FAQ can be found here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2567) and the answer is on page 1. :D

[Good Pig]

Cool. Just wanted to make sure it was considered.

I'm glad his price went up. 200 seems like a good spot for Nick. Yea to play testing

[IAmBatman]

Unoccupied = no figures
Empty = no figures, glyphs, DOs, obstacles such as ruins, etc.

yea

[Griffin]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Down to Spidey!

[tcglkn]

:bump: waiting on Spidey.

[Hahma]

Here are a few more mini pix as we have sun today and I thought I'd give him another try with better light.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Minipix154.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Minipix155.jpg


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Minipix156.jpg

[Griffin]

Thanks Hahma.

Guys, that figure is sooo ugly IMO, I think we should either hold out for the new one coming soon, use this one http://hcrealms.com/units/si051.jpg, or use the Handful of Heroes figure http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu234/hsgriffin/5216640663_f333aa9a4b_o.jpg?t=1300570080

[Hahma]

Yeah, those look nicer than the mini I had for him. Great paint job on the Handful of Heroes version Griff. :up:

[Griffin]

Thanks. I don't have a pic of the new Nick Fury, but I have seen picks of him, and I think that we will likely want to use him as he looks really good and he has the same colors/outfit as the SHIELD we are using. I wouldn't recommend HoH figures unless it was a last resort, as they do require quite a bit of painting.

[tcglkn]

Yea well when this hit final editing we can put it on hold for the mini right? Cause I really want him to match the SHIELD Agents that's why I chose the mini I did.

[Griffin]

Yep, I would agree with a "hold".

[Good Pig]

I'm probably going to pick up the new one coming out soon. Thought that one looked good. :)

[tcglkn]

I'll keep the one I have since it matches the Agents, but I understand your concerns.

[Griffin]

The new Nick Fury does look like the other SHIELD Agents just so you know.

[tcglkn]

The new Nick Fury does look like the other SHIELD Agents just so you know.

I know. But why do I need to buy another one? :p (BTW I did buy the Dr. Strange mini and it looks great)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea to playtesting at 200

[tcglkn]

This passes to playtesting.

[tcglkn]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT NICK FURY

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS (Though I think S.H.I.E.L.D. Leader is a pretty bland name. "Commander of S.H.I.E.L.D." maybe? Not a big deal either way.)

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. PASS ~ It was KINDA close. I feel if Batman took more damage, it would have gone to SHIELD, I think. Fury was certainly useful - it's just that the rest of the army couldn't pick up the slack. But the potential for victory was certainly there, so 200 isn't bad.
Map: Hot Heights (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=450807&postcount=8)
Units: Nick Fury, SHIELD Agents x2, SHIELD Spotter x4, SHIELD Sniper x2 (600 Points) vs. Batman: Bruce Wayne, Robin: Tim Drake, Alfred Pennyworth, Commissioner Gordon, 5th Precinct Beat Cops x2 (600 Points)
Team Batman wins; 2 Wounds on Batman, 4 Beat Cops remaining, Commissioner Gordon unharmed, all others destroyed, 4 Rounds.

ROUND 1: Batman moves first, with Robin lagging behind. The SHIELD Agents get Batman in their sights, but are unable to do any damage. Gordon moves up with a gaggle of Cops. A Spotter gets a shot at Batman but, again, fails. Batman swings forward, killing the Spotter with his Batarang, but neither he nor Robin can hurt any Agents. A Sniper takes aim at Batman and inflicts one wound.

ROUND 2: Fury and three SHIELD Agents drop, surrounding Batman and preparing for a Kill Box. Unfortunately, the Beat Cops move in next and swarm; they're able to kill two Agents and deal one wound to Fury. Still, with the next Order Marker, the Agents aim at Robin and Batman, dealing one wound to Robin, and Fury takes his turn to snipe Alfred. Batman goes next, throwing Batarangs around, but kills no one. Robin, however, swings over and engages an Agent adjacent to Batman, killing him. Fury sends the last two Agents into battle, and they deal another wound to Robin, while Fury himself finishes off Alfred. Batman and Robin swing into action once again, killing the last two Agents and two Snipers in total. A Spotter tries to hit Batman, but can't. One Beat Cop dies due to lava.

ROUND 3: Batman and Robin swing in and swarm the Spotters, killing two. The last Spotter gets height on Batman, but whiffs, and next turn Batman kills her. Robin runs toward the fray. Fury, however, shoots at him from height, killing him. Gordon moves in, tries to hit Fury, and moves some Cops up to reinforce things. Fury shoots and kills one Cop.

ROUND 4: Winning initiative, Batman is able to follow the Bat Signal right on top of Fury, and attacks him from height, dealing three wounds. Fury tries to retaliate, dealing one wound, but with his next turn Batman finishes him off.
_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. PASS ~ This one felt much better. Fury was able to position the Agents for one good Kill Box, and his battlefield commanding let them dominate for a good while. That is, until Super Skrull zeroed in on Fury and killed him; from there, it was just clean-up for the final Skrull. Very close, though, and one better roll here or there would have changed things around - Skrull had just one Life left at the end, after all.
Map: Hot Heights (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=450807&postcount=8)
Units: Nick Fury, Mystique, SHIELD Agents x4, SHIELD Spotter x3, SHIELD Sniper x3 (1000 Points) vs. Super Skrull, Skrull Warriors x6 (1000 Points)
Team Skrull wins; 5 Wounds on Super Skrull, all others destroyed, 9 Rounds.

ROUND 1: Mystique moves toward the opposite side, as does Super Skrull approaches the fray, SHIELD Agents move toward height. The Skrulls move in and fire at Mystique, dealing one wound. SHIELD Agents clibg the hill and kill one of the Skrulls, but another comes up shortly after, and the two put another two wounds on Mystique.

ROUND 2: Super Skrull reaches height, while the SHIELD Agents continue to pelt at the Skrulls, killing two. The Skrulls move in, but cannot kill any Agents. Mystique starts to sneak around back. The Skrulls kill two Agents, while Mystique runs up and engages Super Skrull, setting him up for a Kill Box.

ROUND 3: The Agents all land near the Super Skrull, then swarm to get height. Their Kill Box inflicts two wounds, while Mystique takes a turn, gaining height on Super Skrull, but inflicting no wounds. Super Skrull flies up and kills one Agent, but Mystique attacks from range and slips another wound in. The Agents attack, but none deal any damage and one is killed by Bounce Back. The Skrulls, uninspired, move out and are able to kill one SHIELD Agent. While one SHIELD Agent is killed by the Bounce Back, one is able to kill a Skrull in the start zone and Mystique kills another moving toward battle. The Skrulls retaliate and kill two Agents.

ROUND 4: The Skrull move forward, and are able to engage Fury and kill one more Agent. Mystique runs up and engages Super Skrull, dealing one more wound. The SHIELD Agents surround Fury's Skrull and kill him. Super Skrull attacks Mystique, to no avail. Mystique attacks him again and deals one more wound. The SHIELD Agents move toward the fray, but Super Skrull kills Mystique with his next attack. Fury runs in, with the SHIELD Agents right behind him. One Skrull is killed.

ROUND 5: The SHIELD Agents move in, and with Nick Fury, kill FOUR more Skrulls. One is left alone, and he gets a good attack on Fury, dealing three wounds. However, the Agents surround and kill him next turn. Fury and the Agents approach Super Skrull, who is on height, but Super Skrull kills Fury as the round ends.

ROUND 6: The Agents engage Super Skrull, but one does no damage and another is killed by Bounce Back. Super Skrull attacks and kills one remaining Agent, and the others approach again, but cannot engage. Super Skrull stays on his perch. One Agent gets close, but is killed before she can harm Super Skrull.

ROUND 7: Super Skrull moves down and kills one Agent. The second engages and attacks, but is killed by Bounce Back. Super Skrull zooms across the battlefield to hit at the Spotters and Snipers in the start zone.

ROUND 8: One Sniper is killed, but a second moves up to attack Super Skrull. She's killed by the Bounce Back. Super Skrull kills another Sniper, then a Spotter, without anyone striking back, as all Markers were on the three Snipers.

ROUND 9: Super Skrull kills a Spotter, but the other one runs in to attack him. She can't, and he kills her with his next attack.

FINAL THOUGHTS: He feels just about perfect to me. In smaller armies he's not quite as useful, as there's just fewer units, but at 1000 he was great. I feel like he could go up a bit, maybe, to 210, depending on how close other Unique Agent Hero/Agent Squad synergies are, but with the units I'm using he's a 200 easy.

Thanks for a super fast turn around. Great tests as well! :thumbsup:

[Good Pig]

Cool. Looking good so far. :)

Director of SHIELD for the power name? This fits with his actual title.

[tcglkn]

I like Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Can someone update the OP with 200 points, Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., and johnny139 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1368540&postcount=218)? Thanks.

[SirGalahad]

Done.

[IAmBatman]

So far I think he's probably good at 200, but we have to be careful who we create as an Agent in the future and make sure they're costed for use in a Nick Fury army ... kind of like we do with costing Mutants for Professor X armies. :-)

[tcglkn]

We just have to remember that any Agents will potentially be getting a turn with a squad of SHEILD Agents as well.

I think just being an Adventuer from now on will be expensive on a card. Especially anything with a high life.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Just a list of Future Agents I can think of:
Hellboy (along with any members of the BPRD)
Sharon Carter
Jimmy Woo
Checkmate Agents
Maxwell Lord
Amanda Waller
Black Widow (I would like to see us do both versions: Natasha Romanoff and Yelena Belova)
Gorilla Man
Dum Dum Dugan
Gabriel Jones
Contessa Valentina Allegra di Fontaine
Clay Quartermain
Jasper Sitwell
Victoria Hand
Abigail Brand
Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew and Julia Carpenter)
Steve Rogers
G.W. Bridge
Eric O'Grady (3rd Ant-Man)
Winter Soldier (Assassin would work as well, but have to be careful there too.)

That's all I can think of off the top of my head for Uniques. Commons would include HAMMER Agents, Mandroid Armor, and Capekiller Squads.

[tcglkn]

Griff was saying he had some cool ideas planned for Amanda Waller that would give an Agent army a boost.

[IAmBatman]

I'd be surprised if we got to more than half that list. :-P Do most of those characters even have Clix figs?

[Griffin]

My only idea was to allow her to "steal" Unique Meta-Human Heroes from opponent's and change their class to Agent.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I plan on doing this Superhero Custom thing for a few more years, but half of that list will likely never be created.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'm not sure that'd really work that well in conjunction with this guy ... being able to steal an enemy Metahuman and then give them squad bonding seems a tad too powerful ... and I think it'll give Waller an artificially high cost in games without enemy metahumans.
But that's a discussion for her eventual thread, not this one ...

[Spidey'tilIDie]

But wouldn't you have to draft both Amanda Waller, Fury, and SHIELD Agents Squad? I think that is quite a few points to have to draft. I think if we cost her card correctly, its not an issue, especially if the ability Tickle mentioned were tied into wounding an opponent's figure, a la Ultron. If you have to wound them first, they are less valuable when stolen from an opponent. Sorry for the :hijacked:

[IAmBatman]

I think it has the potential to raise some major red flags, but, like I said previously, not the best place to discuss her.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I'm not sure that'd really work that well in conjunction with this guy ... being able to steal an enemy Metahuman and then give them squad bonding seems a tad too powerful ... and I think it'll give Waller an artificially high cost in games without enemy metahumans.
But that's a discussion for her eventual thread, not this one ...
Yeah, its nothing that needs fleshing out here or now. It was really just a thematic idea more than anything. I have no writeup for her, and I wouldn't really know where to start.

[tcglkn]

I thought it was just a "you can change the class of other Heroes you control to Agents" type of power. :p But I didn't wanna discuss it here.

[SirGalahad]

Went to add him to the Index add am wondering why he is Life 5, when Batman and most mutants are Life 4?

[SirGalahad]

HELICARRIER DROP TEAM
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 3 Agents you control to be part of the Helicarrier Drop Team. Nick Fury and the chosen Agents do not start the game on the battlefield. Once per game, before initiative is rolled at the start of a round, you may place Nick Fury and the chosen Agents on any empty spaces on the battlefield. You may not place them adjacent to any figures.

When else is initiative rolled?

[tcglkn]

Cool, make it happen. :D

[Griffin]

Went to add him to the Index add am wondering why he is Life 5, when Batman and most mutants are Life 4?
Nick Fury's aging has been slowed greatly by the Infinity Formula, a serum created by Dr. Berthold Sternberg. Fury was first inoculated with the serum in the 1940s. Fury took the serum annually for many years. Due to its cumulative effect, Fury no longer needs additional doses to prolong his life span. Nick Fury is a highly athletic man despite his advanced chronological age. He has 95% vision loss in his injured left eye, over which he wears a cosmetic eyepatch. ~ Wikipedia

[SirGalahad]

Went to add him to the Index add am wondering why he is Life 5, when Batman and most mutants are Life 4?
Nick Fury's aging has been slowed greatly by the Infinity Formula, a serum created by Dr. Berthold Sternberg. Fury was first inoculated with the serum in the 1940s. Fury took the serum annually for many years. Due to its cumulative effect, Fury no longer needs additional doses to prolong his life span. Nick Fury is a highly athletic man despite his advanced chronological age. He has 95% vision loss in his injured left eye, over which he wears a cosmetic eyepatch. ~ Wikipedia

OK I can live with that.

[tcglkn]

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Nick Fury

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass
_____________________________________________________________



- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Yes
Map: Hot Heights
Units: Nick Fury, 5xSHIELD Sniper, 4xSHIELD Spotter, 4xSHIELD Agents, 2xMoloid(1000) Vs. Super Skrull, 6xSkrull Warriors(1000)

Round 1
In turn 1 Skrull Warriors took out 1 Sniper. In turn 2 Skrull Warriors took out 2 Spotters. In turn 3 Skrull Warriors took out 1 Sniper. Lost 1 Skrull Warrior to Lavafield damage.
Round 2
Nick Fury and 3 SHIELD Agents dropped in.
In turn 1 Nick Fury gave Super Skrull 3 wounds uninspiring the Skrull Warriors and used Director of SHIELD to activate 1 squad of Agents who took out 1 Skrull Warrior and moved 1 Agent with Tacitcal Coverfire. In turn 2 Nick Fury took out Super Skrull and used Director of SHIELD to activate a squad of Agents who took out 1 Skrull Warrior, OM on Super Skrull. In turn 3 Nick Fury used Director of SHIELD to activate a squad of Agents who took out 2 Skrull Warriors, and Skrull Warriors gave Nick Fury 3 wounds.
Round 3
In turn 1 Nick Fury took out 1 Skrull Warrior and used Director of SHIELD to acitvate a squad of Agents who took out 1 Skrull Warrior, and Skrull Warriors took out Nick Furry. In turn 2 OM on Nick Furry, and Skrull Warriors took out 1 Agent. In turn 3 OM on Nick Furry, and Skrull Warriors took out 1 Agent.
Round 4
In turn 1 Skrull Warriors took out 1 Agent and 1 Sniper, and Agents took out 2 Skrull Warriors. In turn 2 a Sniper took height. In turn 3 Skrull Warriors took out 1 Agent.
Round 5
In turn 1 Skrull Warriors took out 2 Agents. In turn 2 Skrull Warriors took out 2 Agents. In turn 3 Skrull Warriors took out 1 Agent. Lost 1 Agent to Lavafield damage.
Round 6
In turn 1 Agents took out 1 Skrull Warrior, and Skrull Warriors took out the last Agent. In turn 2 a Sniper took out 1 Skrull Warrior. In turn 3 a Sniper took out the last Skrull Warrior.
The game went to round 6 turn 3. There were 2 SHIELD Snipers, 2 SHIELD Spotters, and 2 Moloids remaining.

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Yes
Map: Hot Heights
Units: Nick Fury, 3xSHIELD Agents, Lex Luthor, Penguin(750) Vs. Batman, Robin, Doomsday, SHIELD Sniper(750)

Round 1
In turn 1 Doomsday advanced with Super Leap, and Agents gave Doomsday 4 wounds. In turn 2 Sniper took height, and Lex used Red Kryptonite Control to make Doomsday Super Leap adjacent to Robin. In turn 3 Doomsday advanced with Super Leap.
Round 2
In turn 1 Doomsday engaged Penguin and Lex giving Lex 1 wound. In turn 2 Batman and Robin advanced, and Agents Kill Boxed Doomsday for 1 wound. In turn 3 Doomsday took out Lex, OM on Lex.
Round 3
In turn 1 Penguin Umbrella Coptored over Doomsday and Umbrella Gunned him to death, and Doomsday healed 1 wound. In turn 2 Penguin used Self Importance to take a turn and advanced, and Batman and Robin advanced. In turn 3 Penguin engaged Robin, and Doomsday healed 1 wound.
Round 4
In turn 1 Batman took out Penguin and Robin advanced taking out 1 Agent, OM on Penguin. In turn 2 Doomsday Healed 1 wound, and Agents Kill Boxed Robin for 3 wounds. In turn 3 Batman Bataranged 1 Agent to death and Robin advanced, OM on Penguin.
Round 5
Nick Fury and 3 SHIELD Agent drop in.
In turn 1 Batman engaged 3 agents and Bataranged them all to death and Robin took out 1 Agent, and Nick Fury took height on Batman and used Director of SHIELD to activate a squad of Agents who attacked Batman who took out 2 with Evasive Strike. In turn 2 Doomsday healed 1 wound, and Nick Fury gave Batman 2 wounds and used Director of SHIELD to have the last SHIELD Agent attack Batman who Evasive Striked it. In turn 3 Batman and Robin Advanced.
Round 6
In turn 1 Batman gave Nick Fury 1 wound and Robin engaged Nick Fury, and Nick Fury took out Batman. In turn 2 Doomsday healed 1 wound and Nick Fury took out Robin. In turn 3 OM on Batman and Nick Fury advanced.
Round 7
In turn 1 Nick Fury engaged the SHIELD Sniper and whiffed, and Doomsday healed the last wound coming back. In turn 2 Nick Fury engaged Doomsday, and the SHIELD Sniper took out Nick Fury.
The game went to round 7 turn 2. Nick Fury had 1 prior wound, Doomsday had none, and there was 1 SHIELD Sniper remaining.

Nick Fury really fills out the SHIELD faction. I'm glad that they're finally getting some more love. I really enjoyed how you can choose to either pre-empt your opponent in their start zone, or keep him and a few agents in surrvive for when you really need them with Hellicarrier Drop Team. Director of SHIELD really comes in handy as well. A very fun unit to play and makes your opponent wonder when he's going to appear and where. Great unit:thumbsup:

[tcglkn]

DIRECTOR OF S.H.I.E.L.D.
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may immediately choose one Common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. Nick Fury may be the chosen hero. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose with which unit to activate first.

Copy/Paste
DIRECTOR OF S.H.I.E.L.D.
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may immediately choose one Common or Unique Hero you control to take a turn with. Nick Fury may be the chosen hero. If the chosen hero is an Unique Agent Hero, you may also take a turn with an Agent Squad you control. You may choose which unit to activate first.

and add this to the OP as well: Karat (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1370898&postcount=239)

[Griffin]

Done and done.

[tcglkn]

I propose we move Nick Fury to Final Editing at 200 points.

[Good Pig]

Yea

[SirGalahad]

Yea

[Griffin]

yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea.

[tcglkn]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Nick Fury

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass


- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Nick Fury + SHIELD Agents x3 (530) vs. Deadpool, Green Arrow (OQ) + Civilians x2 (525)
Round 1 - SHIELD Initiative
Heli drop and Director of Shield lands a 7 skull Killbox to kill GA while Nick puts 4 wounds on Deadpool, Civies advance but can't wound, 3 Civies down and Nick finishes off Deadpool, Loss of Turn, Agents and Nick take care of four civilians, Loss of Turn. Lava damage kills three agents

Round 2 - SHIELD Initiative
Last civilian doesn't stand a chance for a R2T1 SHIELD win with a full team -3 SHIELD Agents
_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Nick Fury + SHIELD Agents x3 (530) vs. Thor and Angel (520)
Round 1 - SHIELD Initiative
Heli drop lands a 6 skull Killbox that gives 4 wounds to Thor while a defense whiff by Thor brings the Thunder God up to 7 wounds thatnks to Nick Fury, Thor moves up and deals 3 wounds to NIck, Fury deals one wound to Thor taking out the Asgardian, Loss of turn, Another six skull Killbox gives 3 wounds to Angel and then Fury finishes the job for a R1T3 win with all agents left and a 2 life Nick Fury

Killboxes will be very easy to setup with Helicarrier drop team and directer of SHIELD adds to the pandemic. Pass at 220 points. GREAT Unit to play!

Thank you for your tests.

[tcglkn]

Those results worry me a bit, but running a highly synergetic army against random armies will give results like that. :shrug:

Add to OP please:
LordE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1371296&postcount=247)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Sounds like he dropped them into the Startzone. Perhaps we could use "Figures placed via Helicarrier Drop may not be placed into an opponent's Startzone."

EDIT: Or even better,
HELICARRIER DROP TEAM
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 3 Agents you control to be part of the Helicarrier Drop Team. Nick Fury and the chosen Agents do not start the game on the battlefield. Once per game, before initiative is rolled at the start of a round, you may place Nick Fury and the chosen Agents on any empty spaces on the battlefield. You may not place them adjacent to any figures or in your opponent's Startzone.

[tcglkn]

Startzone's aren't an official term iirc. I think he just dropped them on height within range of their startzone anyways. Plus the dice were for SHEILD and against Thor and the others.