WotC ends miniature production

[Frederickd]

http://www.purplepawn.com/2011/01/wizards-of-the-coast-ends-miniatures-line/

I think it's now safe to assume that they won't bring it back...

[Templar]

*sigh*

[Fen_Hydra]

Rats... I was hoping for some new stuff for customs/D&D.

[Chardar]

I think we can view this as proof that they don't hate Heroscape, they just hate miniatures in general.

[Mossman]

"As a substitute, Slavicsek said that they would ‘explore more options’ for players and DMs to represent their characters and monsters, possibly with flat tokens instead of 3D models."

Oh, that sounds like fun! :roll:

[robbdaman]

I saw this coming a mile away. They are making pogs now. POGS!!! LAME!!!! Back to the old days of Reaper and Games Workshop figs.

[MrWookiee]

eeesh.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Soon pre-painted will be a thing of the past I think... :pity:
and we will have to turn to un-painted for inspiration. I think they are making a big mistake, but who I am I to say. :shrug:

['Scaper94]

What is "pogs"?

[ZBeeblebrox]

What is "pogs"?

POGS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogs)

[Johnnylama]

I think we can view this as proof that they don't hate Heroscape, they just hate miniatures in general.It's not that they hate minis; it's just that they can't make a profit off them anymore. They were no longer supporting the D&D minis game and decreased the number of minis per pack, yet apparently they still couldn't turn a profit off them. I bet their production costs out of China are just too big.

['Scaper94]

What is "pogs"?

POGS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogs)
Oh gosh no!:puke:

[oni]

What is "pogs"?

What is "Google?"

[MrWookiee]

What is "pogs"?

What is "Google?"
What is this "Internet?"

[Juniour]

What is "pogs"?

What is "Google?"
What is this "Internet?"

What is "childish?"



This is

[MrWookiee]

:rofl:

[i_r_beej]

I do believe that WotC left open the possibility of producing special editions (like those things with all the eyes... "Observers" or something?) so maybe this might be something for HS, too.

I actually suggested as much in a letter I sent yesterday-- a "greatest hits" wave or something would be cool. Kinda like what Special Collection 10 was.

But... I dunno. This latest news about the D&D minis does seem to put the final nail in the coffin of WotC/Hasbro bringing back HS. The only option now would be selling off the game to another company like FF.

[Killometer]

What is "pogs"?

POGS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogs)

Wow. I nostalgia'd out the wazoo reading that article. :lol:

[tcglkn]

That's retarded. We need some new miniature lines. I think I read somewhere that Mage Knight is coming back.

[Chardar]

That's retarded. We need some new miniature lines. I think I read somewhere that Mage Knight is coming back.

Not exactly. (http://wgamingresource.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=mini&action=display&thread=7112)

[tcglkn]

Poop. :(

[robbdaman]

Yep, Mage Knight is coming back as a board game which is also the only future releases of D&D Minis and any minis from WotC that are planned. That may be the only way people get any more miniatures. I wonder how long Heroclix has at this point? It was almost canceled once, if other companies can't afford making minis I doubt they will last.

[DWK9000]

Dang I guess that explains alot >< and as far a mage knight goes it can stay gone for all I care I sank so much into that game just for wikids to **** it all away. Heroscape is far superior.

[Robber]

So can we still hope for a new company to pick Heroscape up, or is it just over?

[Harlax]

"As a substitute, Slavicsek said that they would ‘explore more options’ for players and DMs to represent their characters and monsters, possibly with flat tokens instead of 3D models."

Oh, that sounds like fun! :roll:

It sounds like Cardboard Heros, which has been available from Steve Jackson Games for decades. And still is for that matter...

I've seen people proxy the D&D minis using stand up print outs of the gallery pictures from the WOTC website.

I wonder what this means for Axis and Allies minis?

[dok]

I just saw some beautiful prepainted plastic Rackham minis in my FLGS while I was there to play yesterday. I think two mounted knights were $25.

Heroscape was a real outlier when it came to the nexus of price/quality/selection. The discontinuation of the D&D line as well is a disappointment, but not a shock. Just as with Heroscape, my only wish is that they would just continue to leak out some reprints (possibly at a new price point).

[Majora's Incarnation]

Its all this darn Xbox Live. Miniatures aren't as popular anymore, so they don't make money.

WoTC cares only for the profit, not the game, so if it's not making the monies, its going in the trash.

[Chardar]

Its all this darn Xbox Live. Miniatures aren't as popular anymore, so they don't make money.

WoTC cares only for the profit, not the game, so if it's not making the monies, its going in the trash.

I'm pretty sure the same can be said for any manufacturer in the world.

[Shedim Kabal]

WoTC cares only for the profit, not the game, so if it's not making the monies, its going in the trash.I'm pretty sure the same can be said for any manufacturer in the world.
Well, while true, what various companies consider an acceptable profit margin is often affected by their passion for the product.

[adbirk19]

Its all this darn Xbox Live. Miniatures aren't as popular anymore, so they don't make money.

WoTC cares only for the profit, not the game, so if it's not making the monies, its going in the trash.

I'm pretty sure the same can be said for any manufacturer in the world.

I agree, if WOTC cant afford D&D miniatures than heroscape had to to go now I see WOTC is ether in big trouble financially or every one is right and they are just greedy:evil:. Since heroscape can't really be played with figures it makes since why they would drop it if they had to drop D&D later.

[Therrian]

WoTC cares only for the profit, not the game, so if it's not making the monies, its going in the trash.I'm pretty sure the same can be said for any manufacturer in the world.
Well, while true, what various companies consider an acceptable profit margin is often affected by their passion for the product.

This is pretty much only true when you are talking about a private company, not a public company with stock, which Hasbro is. Profit margin and how much you can make the shareholders is all that matters at the end of the day when you are dealing with that dynamic.

[Shedim Kabal]

This is pretty much only true when you are talking about a private company, not a public company with stock, which Hasbro is. Profit margin and how much you can make the shareholders is all that matters at the end of the day when you are dealing with that dynamic.
Agreed - which is why I'm not hopeless that a small firm might pick up Heroscape.

[nate the dawg]

Its all this darn Xbox Live. Miniatures aren't as popular anymore, so they don't make money.
I agree that today's teenager is (if possible) even more wrapped up in video gaming than my generation was (is). So......

If the game is really, really gone, isn't it time for a video game? Something available through XBox LiveArcade (using xna, of course) would be pretty straightforward (from a programming standpoint), and would make the game widely available without the overhead of producing and shipping discs.

I can understand why a HS video game would have been frowned upon while the game was still alive and kickin'; why would someone spend their $ on all the minis if they could have everything in their online collection? However, with the current situation being what it is, it seems as though the window is open for Hasbro/WotC/whoever to use the insanely-popular medium that is video gaming to resolidify a fan-base.

Just my :2cents:.

[Majora's Incarnation]

Its all this darn Xbox Live. Miniatures aren't as popular anymore, so they don't make money.
I agree that today's teenager is (if possible) even more wrapped up in video gaming than my generation was (is). So......

If the game is really, really gone, isn't it time for a video game? Something available through XBox LiveArcade (using xna, of course) would be pretty straightforward (from a programming standpoint), and would make the game widely available without the overhead of producing and shipping discs.

I can understand why a HS video game would have been frowned upon while the game was still alive and kickin'; why would someone spend their $ on all the minis if they could have everything in their online collection? However, with the current situation being what it is, it seems as though the window is open for Hasbro/WotC/whoever to use the insanely-popular medium that is video gaming to resolidify a fan-base.

Just my :2cents:.
This is something my thoughts have always come across. But I agree with you at the point where we should wait till Heroscape is really dead, more of a collectable than a game, and then introduce the video game.

By that time, the processing system on consoles are going to be INCREDIBLE.

(Maybe to the point where 3D games that lay out the board in front of you.)

Strategy games aren't a new field. (Vandal Hearts, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars)

[Robotech Master]

You know what tabletop gaming needs. The holoboard like in Star Wars.

Imagine a table that rendered 3D color images of figures that you can actually watch move and shoot when you direct them on the board's projected hexagonal terrain!

Worried about expansion set costs and distribution? No problem; they just make new units in the programming and you download the expansions from the internet.

Sure, we'll lose the tactile old school feeling and its 12 years off from being feasible, but if minis are no longer profitable, we may have to jump onto the future.

[Majora's Incarnation]

You know what tabletop gaming needs. The holoboard like in Star Wars.

Imagine a table that rendered 3D color images of figures that you can actually watch move and shoot when you direct them on the board's projected hexagonal terrain!

Worried about expansion set costs and distribution? No problem; they just make new units in the programming and you download the expansions from the internet.

Sure, we'll lose the tactile old school feeling and its 12 years off from being feasible, but if minis are no longer profitable, we may have to jump onto the future.
I offer to place $12 on this idea. :lol:

[Nukatha]

Not really any consolation, but at least we know that its not only 'Scape that WOTC didn't like.

So now the company only does two things... card games and D&D.

Wow... and they call themselves the world's leader in hobby games.

[robbdaman]

Wow... and they call themselves the world's leader in hobby games.

They certainly can't call themselves that anymore. I guess with Hasbro they can still hold that title somewhat but there are far better games to play out there than anything WotC makes.

I can't see D&D being absolved completely and even if it was Hasbro wouldn't sell it. There has been too much profit made from the concept for them to let go of it. Personally if D&D went away I'd love it, there are a lot of far better RPG games out there that were overshadowed over the years by the crap that is D&D.

As far as a Heroscape video game, don't ever see that happening. D&D video games are far more profitable and have been over the years.

[Majora's Incarnation]

Wow... and they call themselves the world's leader in hobby games.

They certainly can't call themselves that anymore. I guess with Hasbro they can still hold that title somewhat but there are far better games to play out there than anything WotC makes.

I can't see D&D being absolved completely and even if it was Hasbro wouldn't sell it. There has been too much profit made from the concept for them to let go of it. Personally if D&D went away I'd love it, there are a lot of far better RPG games out there that were overshadowed over the years by the crap that is D&D.

As far as a Heroscape video game, don't ever see that happening. D&D video games are far more profitable and have been over the years.
As far as storyline goes not really. I'm still waiting for my Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 3. :P (Screaming his head off everytime he sees the ending cutscene.)

[faure]

It is certainly not surprising news given the discontinuation of the Star Wars minis (and license) early in the year, the attempts last year to bolster the DDM line with large visible figures (as well as visible players sets), and the solitary minis release this year, not to mention the discontinuation of Heroscape.

However, this seems to be an industry trend, not just WotC, given the recent demise/liquidation of Rackham. It will be interesting to see if HeroClix can really manage a long-term revival.

[Land-based AE]

Interesting that WotC would decide minis are not profitable when another company (Fantasy Flight) is pushing so hard into Minis all the sudden (Arkham Investigators, Dust Tactics, some anime thing I don't know, Wings of War, Mansions of Madness).

I wonder then if there will be no more DnD board games besides Wrath and Ashardalon if they don't plan to keep making minis.

[jschild]

Wow... and they call themselves the world's leader in hobby games.

They certainly can't call themselves that anymore. I guess with Hasbro they can still hold that title somewhat but there are far better games to play out there than anything WotC makes.

I can't see D&D being absolved completely and even if it was Hasbro wouldn't sell it. There has been too much profit made from the concept for them to let go of it. Personally if D&D went away I'd love it, there are a lot of far better RPG games out there that were overshadowed over the years by the crap that is D&D.

As far as a Heroscape video game, don't ever see that happening. D&D video games are far more profitable and have been over the years.

Actually far more DnD video games have been big busts than successes. Bioware (plus the original Gold Boxes) were the only consistent source of success for them. Most of their games from other developers have been very unsuccessful, with the latest failing being that of the DDO.

[Kepler]

I wonder then if there will be no more DnD board games besides Wrath and Ashardalon if they don't plan to keep making minis.

I think the announced mentioned board games as a continuing source of minis for D&D.

I am sorry to see the D&D minis go (just like I am for HS). I was a big fan of both. I didn't even mind the random packaging for the D&D minis. Oh well. My miniature collection is pretty good and is probably sufficient for a lifetime of gaming, but I always want new minis and I feel for those just now (or some to be) getting into D&D. They won't have the same mini options I had.

I wonder if Reaper will step up their release schedule for their pre-painted minis to fill the gap.

[Hogg]

If the game is really, really gone, isn't it time for a video game? Something available through XBox LiveArcade (using xna, of course) would be pretty straightforward (from a programming standpoint), and would make the game widely available without the overhead of producing and shipping discs.

I can understand why a HS video game would have been frowned upon while the game was still alive and kickin'; why would someone spend their $ on all the minis if they could have everything in their online collection? However, with the current situation being what it is, it seems as though the window is open for Hasbro/WotC/whoever to use the insanely-popular medium that is video gaming to resolidify a fan-base.

Just my :2cents:.

Try Final Fantasy Tactics. It is pretty much the same thing as Heroscape.

WotC had online magic for a while. You bought 'virtual cards' that Wizards kept on their servers for you. You could trade and ante and everything, it was just digital. They had that alongside the real paper cards and I don't think it hurt sales for the real cards or they wouldn't have done it.

[jschild]

If the game is really, really gone, isn't it time for a video game? Something available through XBox LiveArcade (using xna, of course) would be pretty straightforward (from a programming standpoint), and would make the game widely available without the overhead of producing and shipping discs.

I can understand why a HS video game would have been frowned upon while the game was still alive and kickin'; why would someone spend their $ on all the minis if they could have everything in their online collection? However, with the current situation being what it is, it seems as though the window is open for Hasbro/WotC/whoever to use the insanely-popular medium that is video gaming to resolidify a fan-base.

Just my :2cents:.

Try Final Fantasy Tactics. It is pretty much the same thing as Heroscape.

WotC had online magic for a while. You bought 'virtual cards' that Wizards kept on their servers for you. You could trade and ante and everything, it was just digital. They had that alongside the real paper cards and I don't think it hurt sales for the real cards or they wouldn't have done it.

Indeed, Magic the Gathering is on XBLA as well. It would be easy from a programming standpoint, the graphics only have to be crisp (Magic's graphics are very basic on the 360), and you have the added fun feature of giving people a toolkit to make maps with, which if implemented correctly, almost never hurts a game.

[Harlax]

Wow... and they call themselves the world's leader in hobby games.

They certainly can't call themselves that anymore. I guess with Hasbro they can still hold that title somewhat but there are far better games to play out there than anything WotC makes.

I can't see D&D being absolved completely and even if it was Hasbro wouldn't sell it. There has been too much profit made from the concept for them to let go of it. Personally if D&D went away I'd love it, there are a lot of far better RPG games out there that were overshadowed over the years by the crap that is D&D.

As far as a Heroscape video game, don't ever see that happening. D&D video games are far more profitable and have been over the years.

Actually far more DnD video games have been big busts than successes. Bioware (plus the original Gold Boxes) were the only consistent source of success for them. Most of their games from other developers have been very unsuccessful, with the latest failing being that of the DDO.

You are not wrong that a number of D&D games have been spectacular failures.

But Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and the Gold Box games were spectatcular sucesses. Particularly NWN -two versions with multiple expansions and a a third version in the works.

[robbdaman]

As far as a Heroscape video game, don't ever see that happening. D&D video games are far more profitable and have been over the years.

Actually far more DnD video games have been big busts than successes. Bioware (plus the original Gold Boxes) were the only consistent source of success for them. Most of their games from other developers have been very unsuccessful, with the latest failing being that of the DDO.

There have been dozens upon dozens of D&D video games. Some have done very well. I'm actually surprised we haven't had a 4th edition game yet. Since Neverwinter Nights 2 we've seen pretty much nothing. WotC/Hasbro instead put a lot of work into 4th ed books and online stuff, which was a large waste. Something many critics expressed but the morons over at Wizards didn't listen. Really though I can't see them competing against WoW, it will take a while before it is dethroned. D&DO didn't match up, it came too late into the market. Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right, most of the products they put out are crap and fail miserably. They don't support those that are successful properly and ruin those too. I give WotC 2 years before Hasbro closes their doors if they keep on this track of failure.

[Kepler]

Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right

How do you know this?

[Darth Vader]

I have a quick question. Are any of the current Fantasy Flight miniature games on a hex movement system?

[robbdaman]

Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right

How do you know this?

Hasbro is a publicly traded company. WotC's side is barely a blip on the radar except that all of their big projects over the past couple years have not made profits anywhere near the effort put into them. Add the fact that overhead costs have gone up extensively and you have a company that is constantly losing money. They layoff employees regularly too, restructuring all the time. You don't have to be a financial manager to understand that the company is in trouble.

[Nukatha]

all of their big projects over the past couple years have not made profits anywhere near the effort put into them.

The sad truth is that this is a fact for every industry ever.

Its far easier to turn a profit making a passable product that people will buy, than making a high-quality or original product that people will love.

Also see rampant sequels in every entertainment medium, whether or not the original warranted it, that and slightly revising a product in hopes that one person will buy it multiple times (like every version of Monopoly ever!).

[nate the dawg]

Try Final Fantasy Tactics. It is pretty much the same thing as Heroscape.

Actually, when Ewok Esenwein first brought over RotV back in '04, one of the first comments I made was, "Wow! Finally a multiplayer FFT!"

[Kepler]

Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right

How do you know this?

Hasbro is a publicly traded company. WotC's side is barely a blip on the radar except that all of their big projects over the past couple years have not made profits anywhere near the effort put into them. Add the fact that overhead costs have gone up extensively and you have a company that is constantly losing money. They layoff employees regularly too, restructuring all the time. You don't have to be a financial manager to understand that the company is in trouble.

Got it. You don't know and are just making wild guesses.

[Grishnakh]

You know what tabletop gaming needs. The holoboard like in Star Wars.

Imagine a table that rendered 3D color images of figures that you can actually watch move and shoot when you direct them on the board's projected hexagonal terrain!

Worried about expansion set costs and distribution? No problem; they just make new units in the programming and you download the expansions from the internet.

Sure, we'll lose the tactile old school feeling and its 12 years off from being feasible, but if minis are no longer profitable, we may have to jump onto the future.

Did any of you ever see this?:

http://www.etc.cmu.edu/projects/surfacescapes/demo.html

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/10/hands-on-dd-on-the-microsoft-surface/

[Majora's Incarnation]

You know what tabletop gaming needs. The holoboard like in Star Wars.

Imagine a table that rendered 3D color images of figures that you can actually watch move and shoot when you direct them on the board's projected hexagonal terrain!

Worried about expansion set costs and distribution? No problem; they just make new units in the programming and you download the expansions from the internet.

Sure, we'll lose the tactile old school feeling and its 12 years off from being feasible, but if minis are no longer profitable, we may have to jump onto the future.

Did any of you ever see this?:

http://www.etc.cmu.edu/projects/surfacescapes/demo.html

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/10/hands-on-dd-on-the-microsoft-surface/
And they say they can't make Heroscape games...what a bunch of liars.

[robbdaman]

Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right

How do you know this?

Hasbro is a publicly traded company. WotC's side is barely a blip on the radar except that all of their big projects over the past couple years have not made profits anywhere near the effort put into them. Add the fact that overhead costs have gone up extensively and you have a company that is constantly losing money. They layoff employees regularly too, restructuring all the time. You don't have to be a financial manager to understand that the company is in trouble.

Got it. You don't know and are just making wild guesses.

Yeah, wild guesses called weak profits in the past year, canceled product lines and laid off employees. If those count as wild guesses I'm glad you're not in charge of any of my money. :roll: Sorry but I'm not going to read their 100+ page annual investors report and summarize it for you to appease your need for specific info. If you can prove otherwise do it Mr. Stockbroker, but WotC and Hasbro as a whole are not making as much bank as they used to. If you think otherwise you're not too bright. :poorpost:

[Kepler]

From this


Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right


to this

WotC and Hasbro as a whole are not making as much bank as they used to.

is called moving targets and does not make for a valid argument.

And if you don't have a valid argument then might as well go to the personal attacks.

If you think otherwise you're not too bright. :poorpost:

Good day sir. :roll:

[i_r_beej]

C'mon guys. Let's keep things civil.

[robbdaman]

From this


Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right


to this

WotC and Hasbro as a whole are not making as much bank as they used to.is called moving targets and does not make for a valid argument.

And if you don't have a valid argument then might as well go to the personal attacks.

If you think otherwise you're not too bright. :poorpost:Good day sir. :roll:

And you have no facts, just debate. Anyone can say the opposite of someone without any basis. That doesn't make them right. Oh and the personal attacks were started by you. I'm done debating with you as you obviously have no knowledge about any of it. You just wanted to start a fight.

[Kepler]

From this


Anyway it is no wonder that WotC is losing money left and right


to this

WotC and Hasbro as a whole are not making as much bank as they used to.is called moving targets and does not make for a valid argument.

And if you don't have a valid argument then might as well go to the personal attacks.

If you think otherwise you're not too bright. :poorpost:Good day sir. :roll:

And you have no facts, just debate. Anyone can say the opposite of someone without any basis. That doesn't make them right. Oh and the personal attacks were started by you. I'm done debating with you as you obviously have no knowledge about any of it. You just wanted to start a fight.

Your are right, I don't have any facts about WotC's profitability. It is obvious you don't either. I have made no assertion about WotC's profitability. You did and I just simply asked you to back it up.

[Kepler]

C'mon guys. Let's keep things civil.

Sorry it's hard to ignore someone throwing around wild guesses/personal opinions like they are facts.

[AMIS]

And back to the thread,

This does at least open up the third party outsourcing or lisencing or "selling off" of the miniatures line as a possibility.

As we've heard in other threads the old, my brother's older cousin's best friend knows someone who works for a company interested in buying Heroscape, routine that is commonly heard when a game gets discontinued.

I actually wasn't buying any of it but this may actually have put a dim glimmer of hope in these normally incorrect rumours.

(Lawyer's note - And no I'm not calling anyone on the site a liar, this is normally a case of hearing only what we want to hear so desperately).

[oni]

You know what tabletop gaming needs. The holoboard like in Star Wars.

Imagine a table that rendered 3D color images of figures that you can actually watch move and shoot when you direct them on the board's projected hexagonal terrain!

Worried about expansion set costs and distribution? No problem; they just make new units in the programming and you download the expansions from the internet.

Sure, we'll lose the tactile old school feeling and its 12 years off from being feasible, but if minis are no longer profitable, we may have to jump onto the future.

Did any of you ever see this?:

http://www.etc.cmu.edu/projects/surfacescapes/demo.html

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/10/hands-on-dd-on-the-microsoft-surface/

That looks awesome! I totally want that right now!!!!

[Codeman]

I saw this coming a mile away. They are making pogs now. POGS!!! LAME!!!!................

:lol: Wow, just this weekend I ran into several sheets ( plastic pocketed protectors ) of theese back when the boys were into them. I thought how crazy were these but for a few months we had to stop at POG shop any time we ran accross one in our travels... just to look over a 1,000 or more different ones and pick out amd buy 10 or 12. Even ran accross one with the pictures on it............. By the end of year the fade was over.

[The Deadliest Warrior]

I would be disappointed...

but then again, what should we expect from these guys anyway?

[jbbnbsmith]

Hmmm...using 2D tokens to represent 3D objects and armies. I wonder why no one ever thought of that before. (http://boardgamegeek.com/image/20100/panzerblitz)
:)

[i_r_beej]

I picked up the D&D "Red Box" a few days ago. Inside was a paper map and a sheet of cardboard tokens to represent various characters, monsters, etc.

My 7 yr-old son immediately made the leap from D&D Heroscape to "regular" D&D: "Hey! We can use Heroscape figures on this!!!!" (Yes, he was THAT excited.)

SO I guess this prettymuch confirms WotC's grand plans with D&D Heroscape. It's too bad they had to go and discontinue it. All miniatures, for that matter.

Oh and playing on a paper map with square spaces and round cardboard tokens stinks. :)

[Dwarvenwarrior123]

:cry::cry::passout::wtf!:@#$% wotc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wotc you have gone to far:headshake:

[loborocket]

Mr. Stockbroker, but WotC and Hasbro as a whole are not making as much bank as they used to. If you think otherwise you're not too bright. :poorpost:

I may not be "Mr. Stockbroker" but it only took about 2 minutes to find out HAS stock price higher now (maybe not TODAY but over the last Quarter) than at any point going back to 1985 (probably further but the chart only goes back that far)

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=HAS&t=my&l=on&z=l&q=l&p=&a=&c=

If you click the analyst coverage MOST of them have HAS listed as a buy. So with my limited knowledge of stocks this does not seem to be the bleak picture you are describing. Of course this is not exposing WoTC number directly. I am not sure exactly how you would get that info without being employed by WoTC or Hasbro. Not sure if the investors even get that kind of insight.

[Kepler]

Mr. Stockbroker, but WotC and Hasbro as a whole are not making as much bank as they used to. If you think otherwise you're not too bright. :poorpost:

I may not be "Mr. Stockbroker" but it only took about 2 minutes to find out HAS stock price higher now (maybe not TODAY but over the last Quarter) than at any point going back to 1985 (probably further but the chart only goes back that far)

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=HAS&t=my&l=on&z=l&q=l&p=&a=&c=

If you click the analyst coverage MOST of them have HAS listed as a buy. So with my limited knowledge of stocks this does not seem to be the bleak picture you are describing. Of course this is not exposing WoTC number directly. I am not sure exactly how you would get that info without being employed by WoTC or Hasbro. Not sure if the investors even get that kind of insight.

Whoa there mister. Facts have no place in this discussion. WotC is the bad guy and therefore you should be able to make stuff up to bash them about and to question the bashing is simply rude. ;)

About Heroscape. I would love for this company to take over.

http://www.schleich-s.com/

They make some amazing plastic figures.

[Shedim Kabal]

About Heroscape. I would love for this company to take over.

http://www.schleich-s.com/

They make some amazing plastic figures.

Fenryll (http://www.fenryll.com/index.php) makes some nice resin figures as well.

But I'd rather have a gaming company like Asmodee lease or buy the license for Heroscape. Someone experienced with selling games, not action figures, would be a plus, I think.

[loborocket]

Whoa there mister. Facts have no place in this discussion. WotC is the bad guy and therefore you should be able to make stuff up to bash them about and to question the bashing is simply rude. ;)


Or maybe we are just both "Not so bright." ;)

[Kepler]

About Heroscape. I would love for this company to take over.

http://www.schleich-s.com/

They make some amazing plastic figures.

Fenryll (http://www.fenryll.com/index.php) makes some nice resin figures as well.

Those ae nice. Do the minis come unpainted? I assume so since I saw some say you have to assemble them.

[Shedim Kabal]

Those ae nice. Do the minis come unpainted? I assume so since I saw some say you have to assemble them.

Yes (they have some limited edition pre-painted, for a price (http://www.fenryll.com/category.php?id_category=41)).

I wonder if painting is a profit killer? Asmodee made some miniatures for their Dungeon Twister game, and used different color resign for the various teams... Could Heroscape fans accept unpainted, but faction colored, firgures? I doubt it, for some reason.

[Hogg]

Could Heroscape fans accept unpainted, but factgion colored, firgures? I doubt it, for some reason.

Probably not. For me, one of the draws of HS is the accessibility. If I had to paint the figures I'd probably switch over to a more serious game like Warhammer.

[hunterfairbanks]

Mr. Stockbroker, but WotC and Hasbro as a whole are not making as much bank as they used to. If you think otherwise you're not too bright. :poorpost:

I may not be "Mr. Stockbroker" but it only took about 2 minutes to find out HAS stock price higher now (maybe not TODAY but over the last Quarter) than at any point going back to 1985 (probably further but the chart only goes back that far)

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=HAS&t=my&l=on&z=l&q=l&p=&a=&c=

If you click the analyst coverage MOST of them have HAS listed as a buy. So with my limited knowledge of stocks this does not seem to be the bleak picture you are describing. Of course this is not exposing WoTC number directly. I am not sure exactly how you would get that info without being employed by WoTC or Hasbro. Not sure if the investors even get that kind of insight.

I have several annual reports from Hasbro. While I am not seeing WOTC results separate from the overall company Hasbro looks to be making more "bank" than ever.
2000 (.82)
2001 .33
2002 .43
2003 .94
2004 .96
2005 1.09
2006 1.29
2007 1.97
2008 2.00
2009 2.69

And according to Valueline from 1984-1999 their best year was 1999 when they earned 1.42

It may very well be a reasonable inference to look at some of what's happened with WotC and think that they are probably not doing very well. However, that assertion can really be nothing more than a guess. On what we can look up, Hasbro, the guess as to their "bank" is flat out wrong.:roll:

[robbdaman]

You can't utilize year old information applied to the present. From CNBC regarding Hasbro in 2010:

Hasbro says that people bought fewer toys than it had expected during the crucial holiday season and says revenues will probably decline for both the fourth quarter and the year.

The company, which makes products like Transformers action figures and the game Scrabble, said Friday that full-year revenue will be $4 billion, lower than the $4.07 billion reported last year.

Analysts were looking for revenue of $4.12 billion, according to FactSet.

Fourth-quarter revenue is expected to be down 7 percent to $1.3 billion.

The company says it expects a modest increase in earnings per share for the year compared with last year's $2.48 per share. Analysts are expecting $2.70 per share.

That 7 percent equates to a lot of money. So products that were ailing got scrapped. Heroscape and D&D Minis as well as a variety of others.

[Majora's Incarnation]

You can't utilize year old information applied to the present. From CNBC regarding Hasbro in 2010:

Hasbro says that people bought fewer toys than it had expected during the crucial holiday season and says revenues will probably decline for both the fourth quarter and the year.

The company, which makes products like Transformers action figures and the game Scrabble, said Friday that full-year revenue will be $4 billion, lower than the $4.07 billion reported last year.

Analysts were looking for revenue of $4.12 billion, according to FactSet.

Fourth-quarter revenue is expected to be down 7 percent to $1.3 billion.

The company says it expects a modest increase in earnings per share for the year compared with last year's $2.48 per share. Analysts are expecting $2.70 per share.That 7 percent equates to a lot of money. So products that were ailing got scrapped. Heroscape and D&D Minis as well as a variety of others.
So why doesn't Hasbro sell the license? For crying out loud the game is is amazing, and probably do better in the hands of a company who works for the people, not the profit. Hasbro seems to hold onto its licenses like a little kid does a toy he does not want to share. Hating that company more and more :evil:

[loborocket]

You can't utilize year old information applied to the present. From CNBC regarding Hasbro in 2010:

Hasbro says that people bought fewer toys than it had expected during the crucial holiday season and says revenues will probably decline for both the fourth quarter and the year.

The company, which makes products like Transformers action figures and the game Scrabble, said Friday that full-year revenue will be $4 billion, lower than the $4.07 billion reported last year.

Analysts were looking for revenue of $4.12 billion, according to FactSet.

Fourth-quarter revenue is expected to be down 7 percent to $1.3 billion.

The company says it expects a modest increase in earnings per share for the year compared with last year's $2.48 per share. Analysts are expecting $2.70 per share.

That 7 percent equates to a lot of money. So products that were ailing got scrapped. Heroscape and D&D Minis as well as a variety of others.

My information was/is not old. The graph I linked to was the current days closing stock price with a graph going back to 1985.

Many companies profits are down from forcasts. Even in your quote profits are down but earnings per share are up. That is a GOOD thing as an investor. It means they are doing things RIGHT as a company. What may be right in this case is cutting losing products like Heroscape. We might like the game but it is not profitable to them so it is gone. This way they keep cost down in the face of lower profits so they can keep the eranings per share up. Seems to me they have a pretty keen sense of the business they are in keeping earnings up in the face of a down economy.

Sorry our game was the loser. It is just business.

[RobertDD]

You can't utilize year old information applied to the present. From CNBC regarding Hasbro in 2010:

Hasbro says that people bought fewer toys than it had expected during the crucial holiday season and says revenues will probably decline for both the fourth quarter and the year.

The company, which makes products like Transformers action figures and the game Scrabble, said Friday that full-year revenue will be $4 billion, lower than the $4.07 billion reported last year.

Analysts were looking for revenue of $4.12 billion, according to FactSet.

Fourth-quarter revenue is expected to be down 7 percent to $1.3 billion.

The company says it expects a modest increase in earnings per share for the year compared with last year's $2.48 per share. Analysts are expecting $2.70 per share.

That 7 percent equates to a lot of money. So products that were ailing got scrapped. Heroscape and D&D Minis as well as a variety of others.

My information was/is not old. The graph I linked to was the current days closing stock price with a graph going back to 1985.

Many companies profits are down from forcasts. Even in your quote profits are down but earnings per share are up. That is a GOOD thing as an investor. It means they are doing things RIGHT as a company. What may be right in this case is cutting losing products like Heroscape. We might like the game but it is not profitable to them so it is gone. This way they keep cost down in the face of lower profits so they can keep the eranings per share up. Seems to me they have a pretty keen sense of the business they are in keeping earnings up in the face of a down economy.

Sorry our game was the loser. It is just business.
What you say is all true, but when WotC took over HeroScape, if those same rules applied back then, WotC must've seen earnings that they liked. While they owned the property something happened that made HeroScape from a winner into a loser. I wonder what happened.

Oh, wait, WotC changed everything about HeroScape! They produced an underpowered Masterset that closed the door on new players (even though that same size masterset had already been proven to be a failure with Marvel), they rehashed old D&D minis that are out of scale and have shoddy paint jobs and they changed the bases to annoy the loyal existing customer base.

A game that goes down in production values, attracts no new players and oozes old ones is in a downwards earning spiral. I strongly suspect HeroScape in the WotC incarnation of the game struggled to find an audience because of the way it was mishandled. It's the choices that lead up to discontinuation that I question, not the final one to cut the life support.

['Scaper94]

Sorry our game was the loser. It is just business.
Our game is NOT a loser! Look at the dedicated fanbase, the nice people that play, the amount of support we give the game, all of the custom units and terrain. Heck, this site alone is at least one step up than most other board game sites! Heroscape is not a loser by any means in my BOOK (like my joke?).

[ZBeeblebrox]

:word:

[Sherman Davies]

What you say is all true, but when WotC took over HeroScape, if those same rules applied back then, WotC must've seen earnings that they liked. While they owned the property something happened that made HeroScape from a winner into a loser.

As far as any of us know, WotC did not take over Heroscape. Heroscape was dumped on them by their parent company, Hasbro/Milton Bradley, presumably because they viewed it as not profitable enough and were hoping that WotC could turn things around.

[loborocket]

Sorry our game was the loser. It is just business.
Our game is NOT a loser!

Scrictly in the business sense it was the loser. There are all kinds of things the workings of big business have laid waste to even if there is support for them in one way or another.

[robbdaman]

What you say is all true, but when WotC took over HeroScape, if those same rules applied back then, WotC must've seen earnings that they liked. While they owned the property something happened that made HeroScape from a winner into a loser.

As far as any of us know, WotC did not take over Heroscape. Heroscape was dumped on them by their parent company, Hasbro/Milton Bradley, presumably because they viewed it as not profitable enough and were hoping that WotC could turn things around.

That was the impression I got from Ian way back when the game was transferred to them.

Heroscape is just not cost effective as it was. They could have changed that model and cost to attempt to make it so but increasing prices isn't seen as a good idea I am guessing. Most likely they were looking for higher numbers than the game could ever give.

[faure]

Much as folks like bashing WotC for deciding to discontinue the game, the writing was on the wall before Hasbro even transferred it when the big box stores decided not to continue stocking it. In many of those stores, HS inventory sat on shelves, whether Wave 5, SotM, the Marvel set, or even Volcarren Waste (at least in the TRU stores I visited for a long time).
WotC tried several approaches to keep it going, including use of existing figure molds to keep costs down and a storyline to attract more audience, in an economy during which many people are not spending money on toys (as can be seen from the ending of several miniature lines/games).
Anyone buying/licensing HS will need to either get back into the big box stores or establish premium pricing in the hobby stores to get the game going again.

[Kepler]

About Heroscape. I would love for this company to take over.

http://www.schleich-s.com/

They make some amazing plastic figures.

Fenryll (http://www.fenryll.com/index.php) makes some nice resin figures as well.

But I'd rather have a gaming company like Asmodee lease or buy the license for Heroscape. Someone experienced with selling games, not action figures, would be a plus, I think.

I just bought this fig from Fenryll (thru FRP Games).

http://www.fenryll.com/product.php?id_product=543

It is very nice but a little pricey. Luckily one of my D&D players has offered to paint it or me.

[i_r_beej]

Well I guess they haven't actually stopped miniature production. The minis are showing up in WotC's new boardgames.

Specifically "Castle Ravenloft" and the new board game coming later this month (that is fully compatible with Ravenloft) "Wrath of Ashardalon".

Look here for a review/analysis of Castle Ravenloft:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6187920#6187920

It's within a context of the "Red Box" starter set, but it makes a pretty good case for the Ravenloft game itself as a stand-alone game.

I note with interest the large number of miniature figures (unpainted) and the interlocking tiles. Granted, the tiles are made of heavy cardboard, but they're interlocking and reconfigurable.

I'm especially intrigued by the solo and cooperative play possibilities.

I just think this is just an interesting development.

[malkill]

Much as folks like bashing WotC for deciding to discontinue the game, the writing was on the wall before Hasbro even transferred it when the big box stores decided not to continue stocking it. In many of those stores, HS inventory sat on shelves, whether Wave 5, SotM, the Marvel set, or even Volcarren Waste (at least in the TRU stores I visited for a long time).
WotC tried several approaches to keep it going, including use of existing figure molds to keep costs down and a storyline to attract more audience, in an economy during which many people are not spending money on toys (as can be seen from the ending of several miniature lines/games).
Anyone buying/licensing HS will need to either get back into the big box stores or establish premium pricing in the hobby stores to get the game going again.

My issue began even when the big box stores were actually selling them. Back in 2005 I would go into every store in the area and they would have the box there for the figures to set in but they were always sold out. I was checking 5 wal-marts, 5 Targets, a K-mart, and several hobby shops daily. If I did find the figures it was almost always at a hobby shop and there was like a 50% premium compared to what I paid for them at walmart/target who never had them in stock.

So I basically lost interest right about the time that Hasbro decided they weren't going to be selling them in big box stores and would be concentrating on the specialty market. Now I came back in December with renewed interest and find out the darn game has been canceled. I don't want to give up on the game but I don't way the prices that they are charging on ebay for the figures/terrain either. Here's to hoping that we can get the game resurrected or at least continued reprints of older product.

[cavebehr]

OHHHHH Heeeerroooossccaaappeee O hero scape the pipes the pipes are calling.......

[Dad_Scaper]

Much as folks like bashing WotC for deciding to discontinue the game, the writing was on the wall before Hasbro even transferred it when the big box stores decided not to continue stocking it. In many of those stores, HS inventory sat on shelves, whether Wave 5, SotM, the Marvel set, or even Volcarren Waste (at least in the TRU stores I visited for a long time).
WotC tried several approaches to keep it going, including use of existing figure molds to keep costs down and a storyline to attract more audience, in an economy during which many people are not spending money on toys (as can be seen from the ending of several miniature lines/games).
Anyone buying/licensing HS will need to either get back into the big box stores or establish premium pricing in the hobby stores to get the game going again.

My issue began even when the big box stores were actually selling them. Back in 2005 I would go into every store in the area and they would have the box there for the figures to set in but they were always sold out. I was checking 5 wal-marts, 5 Targets, a K-mart, and several hobby shops daily. If I did find the figures it was almost always at a hobby shop and there was like a 50% premium compared to what I paid for them at walmart/target who never had them in stock.

So I basically lost interest right about the time that Hasbro decided they weren't going to be selling them in big box stores and would be concentrating on the specialty market. Now I came back in December with renewed interest and find out the darn game has been canceled. I don't want to give up on the game but I don't way the prices that they are charging on ebay for the figures/terrain either. Here's to hoping that we can get the game resurrected or at least continued reprints of older product.

I don't want to interrupt the gloom that is this thread, but you can still find plenty of new 'Scape online at very reasonable prices. I go to www.coolstuffinc.com, a site supporter, but there are others too.