Project Pokemon: Glyphs/Items Thread

[White Knight]

Welcome to the Project Pokemon

Glyphs/Items Thread



(General discussion about Project Pokémon occurs here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29851).)
(Visit the Playtesting Thread here. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30274))
(Participate in the Design Thread here. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1082040#post1082040))


Glyphs/Items Team
Team Lead: Warlord Alpha
NightSwipe
DeathDoom

Consultants: wulfhunter667,
White Knight


Purpose of the Glyphs/Items Thread
The purpose of the Glyphs/Items Thread is to design the glyphs and items for the Project Pokemon Master Set.

[White Knight]

Warlord Alpha will be leading the Team that will be designing the glyphs and items for the Project Pokemon Master Set.

The main items I'd like to see are Potion, Pokeball, and Great Ball (which we'll need for some of the scenarios in the Master Set). Others will be up to the team.

From the previous thread, here is the most recent list of possible items:

Healing Glyphs:
Antidote
Awakening
Burn Heal
Potions
Full Heal (all status effects)
Ice Heal
Paralyze Heal
Revive

Combat Glyphs:
Guard Spec (disables special attacks)
Dire Hit
X Attack/Defend/Special/Speed

For scenarios:
Pokeball
Great Ball
HP UP

Badges:
Cascade
Boulder
Rainbow
Thunder
Soul
Marsh
Volcano
Earth

Vitamins
Calcium
Carbos
Iron
Protein

Other Items (Pokescape only)
Escape Rope (return all Pokemon to start zone)
Poke Doll (distract Pokemon w/i 4 cls into attacking it)
Repel (prevents Common Pokemon from coming w/i 2 spaces, kinda like Air Elemental)
Itemfinder (view unrevealed glyphs)
Poke Flute (awakens all sleeping Pokemon)

Remember, we have several more Waves to go before this is done, so many of the items can be saved for future Waves.

[NightSwipe]

You'll have to forgive my ineptitude, I never really played the FireRed/LeafGreen games enough times to know the badges for them. I am... well-versed, shall we say? in Gen. 3 and 4.


We could probably have the items on the Trainers, like Treasure Glyphs, and they could be used either at the end or beginning of rounds.

I think I'll wait for a bit more activity before posting some more ideas.

[fiddlerjones]

If you use the items like treasure glyphs in D&D Heroscape, I think things like "Burn Heal" or "Antidote" are unnecessary because of their very situational usefulness. "Full Heal" to remove all status effects, or maybe something like "Remedy" to remove one status marker (if more than one are possible at a time - i forget what we decided there) would work, however.

The items that remove specific status effects will just be useless too often, though.

[NightSwipe]

I meant that you would purchase them at stores (or find them in the field) in between games, and they would stay on the Trainer card until activated.

[White Knight]

I meant that you would purchase them at stores (or find them in the field) in between games, and they would stay on the Trainer card until activated.

I was thinking that way too.

About Status Effects: the general consensus was to allow only 1 status marker at a time. That's how I've been playtesting Paras.

[DeathDoom]

Reporting in!
Are we intending to focus primarily on Pokeballs and Potions at the moment?

[Chardar]

Has anyone considered potions as just one time use draftable items? Something like this.

POTION

Once per game you may use this Potion. Remove (1) Wound Marker from one Pokemon you control.

20 Points?


That would make them simple and much easier to use in a traditional game.

[White Knight]

Has anyone considered potions as just one time use draftable items? Something like this.

POTION
Once per game you may use this Potion. Remove (1) Wound Marker from one Pokemon you control.

20 Points?

That would make them simple and much easier to use in a traditional game.

That's a good idea. :) Let's keep that in mind as a possibility as we design these things.

As for what we will focus on first, I was waiting on Warlord Alpha to give some direction since he asked to be Glyphs/Items Team Leader. Maybe he's been busy this week...

[Kroz]

The whole draftable items would also help when you have your six pokemon max and still have points left to spend.

[Chardar]

X Attack(or any other stat boost)

At the beginning of the round you may use this X Attack. Add 1 to the attack of any 1 Pokemon you control until the end of the Round. You may only use this effect once per game.

10 points?

Reason behind the low cost. Most pokemon use special attacks, so an attack boost wouldn't be a huge benefit.

[Warlord Alpha]

All right. Just realized that this thread had been made :|

Anyways, first step is always organization. What needs to get done and how do we plan on doing it?

For what needs to get done, we need to decide how these are going to enter gameplay, how they are going to be used, when they are going to be used, and of course we need to decide what items we have and what they do.

Can anyone think of anything else?

[Chardar]

I prefer the draftable items plan. It's simple, effective, and isn't limited to pure pokescape games, although they will inevitably be more useful there.

[NightSwipe]

I prefer the draftable items plan. It's simple, effective, and isn't limited to pure pokescape games, although they will inevitably be more useful there.

I agree about the draftable items, although I think they should be pure Pokescape. It's not fair if you are playing Classic Scape and your opponent can just heal his Tyranitar back to full health, while you can't do that with your Nilfheim.

[Warlord Alpha]

My problem with draftable items is that, making an example out of potion, healing two or three wounds might be worth a lot or virtually nothing depending on the Pokemon. Imagine a say 120 point Chansey with like 15 health - 2 wounds isn't worth a whole lot. Now imagine a 200 point Dragonite with only 7 or 8 life. Suddenly those two wounds became a lot more valuable.

Take one Pokemon like Mewtwo (which we all know will be insanely powerful and ridiculously hard to kill) and draft nothing but potions alongside it and you would never be able to kill the damn thing.

[fiddlerjones]

On top of that, does it take an "action" to use a potion? Do you put an order marker on it or just use it whenever? If it's whenever, can you use it to interrupt another action, like say the aforementioned Mewtwo has 2 life left. He gets hit for 2 wounds. Can you pop the potion after the attack is rolled but before he dies (faints)?

I really think these would work better as treasure glyphs a la D&D 'Scape. Only a few of them would have to be Pokescape specific (the ones that remove status markers); things like Potion and X Attack could work anytime.

[Chardar]

On top of that, does it take an "action" to use a potion? Do you put an order marker on it or just use it whenever? If it's whenever, can you use it to interrupt another action, like say the aforementioned Mewtwo has 2 life left. He gets hit for 2 wounds. Can you pop the potion after the attack is rolled but before he dies (faints)

"After revealing an Order Marker on a Pokemon you control you may use this Potion instead of taking a turn with that Pokemon".

That should also balance out the power levels. If you have to give up an attack to use the potion and then your opponent gets a free hit that potion starts to look a lot less appealing.

[NightSwipe]

That's a good point. Items as Treasure Glyphs are ideal. My mindset is that you can buy them at a Market before the game and then use them as needed.

[fiddlerjones]

That's a good point. Items as Treasure Glyphs are ideal. My mindset is that you can buy them at a Market before the game and then use them as needed.

That seems like it would work great as an optional rule for use in scenarios or Pokescape games. Ideally, they should be usable as Treasure Glyphs just like in D&D 'Scape, but they can also be assigned a point value if you want to draft them beforehand.

[Warlord Alpha]

I still don't like the idea of drafting them. 49% of the time it will be way overpriced and 49% it will be way underpriced, and then 2% of the time it will be accurately priced. These numbers may be exaggerations, but you get the idea.

I think that we should assign them point values for scenarios and such, I just don't like the idea of making them draftable.

[NightSwipe]

/\ That's a good point. A Revive in the first Gym battle isn't worth as much as it is during the Elite Four.

[White Knight]

For single battles, the Pokemon items I think would be best as new Treasure glyphs would be:
- Pokedoll
- Escape Rope


For the Master Set scenarios, the Pokemon Items/Glyphs I'd like to see:

Scenarios
Pokeball
Greatball

Potion
Full Heal
Antidote

X Attack
X Defend
X Speed

I think Badges and the various permanent items (Calcium, Carbos, etc...) should come later. Altogether it makes 10 Pokemon Items for the Master Set.

[Chardar]

We could release the badges in the gym leader "waves".

[fiddlerjones]

I like the look of WK's list, but I don't really see Antidote being necessary. Removing a specific type of status marker that only 2 pokemon at most in the set can inflict is a bit situational.

[White Knight]

I like the look of WK's list, but I don't really see Antidote being necessary. Removing a specific type of status marker that only 2 pokemon at most in the set can inflict is a bit situational.

I can agree with that. In fact, I now think Antidote should come out with Wave 1--Viridian Forest. It would be terrible to do a campaign with Weedle and Kakuna and not have Antidote.:)

@Chardar--I agree with having Gym Leader waves as well.:D

Any other Items we should add?

[DeathDoom]

Not necessarily saying that we should add them right away, but what about considering held items like the Quick Claw?

[NightSwipe]

Not necessarily saying that we should add them right away, but what about considering held items like the Quick Claw?

We could do that in a "Department Store Expansion Pack". ;)

That's a good idea. Maybe in the first Gym pack, as that's where I remember getting it (at least in Hoenn).

[White Knight]

There are a lot of held items in Pokemon such as Quick Claw, Black Glasses, Charcoal, etc... I was originally thinking of saving them until they come up in the campaign, but held items weren't introduced into the games until the Johto region, so they would not normally be in the Kanto (Red/Blue/Yellow) region. (Of course, we could always add them.)

Do we want to include a few held items specific to type in the Master Set just so that folks can see how they affect W/R/I?

Maybe one for each of the starters:
Charcoal (raises power of fire type moves)
Miracle Seed (grass moves)
Mystic Water (water moves)

We can have them affect W/R/I, Range, or Attack.


Other than that, how does this list look?
Pokedoll
Escape Rope

Pokeball
Greatball

Potion
Full Heal

X Attack
X Defend
X Speed

[NightSwipe]

I think that list, with or without the Type-boosting items, will be a good start.

[DeathDoom]

As does this guy. :nonexistentthumbsmiley:

[Chardar]

As does this guy. :nonexistentthumbsmiley:

:thumbsup: - : thumbsup :

:up: - : up :

[DeathDoom]

As does this guy. :nonexistentthumbsmiley:

:thumbsup: - : thumbsup :

:up: - : up :
Need two of them to point at myself :(

[White Knight]

Item Ideas
So now we have to decide what the items do. Here are my preliminary ideas:

Pokeball - used to capture Pokemon

Greatball - add +5 to your roll when trying to capture Pokemon

Potion - After revealing an OM, instead of taking a turn you may remove up to 2 wound markers from one of your army cards.

(Do they need to lose a turn? In 1-on-1 battles, do they need to be adjacent to their trainer?)

Full Heal - After revealing an OM, instead of taking a turn you may remove a Status Effect Marker from one of your figures.

(Do they need to lose a turn? In 1-on-1 battles, do they need to be adjacent to their trainer?)

X Items: Place on 1 of your figures for the entire battle.
X Attack - add 1 to your normal Attack
X Defend - add 1 to your Defense
X Speed - add 1 to your Move

Pokedoll - One time use. Put on the battlefield in place of one of your figures. It has a Life of 1, a Move of 0, a Defense of 0, and it cannot attack. If Pokedoll is destroyed, immediately replace Pokedoll with the figure it had replaced. That figure takes no wounds. At any time during your figure's turn you may you may retrieve your Pokedoll and place your figure back on the battlefield.

In a scenario, you may destroy the Pokedoll and immediately end a battle with a wild Pokemon.

Escape Rope - One time use. You may return one figure you control to your Start Zone. That figure takes no leaving engagement attacks.

In a scenario, you may use the Escape Rope to immediate return your Trainer figure to the start of the map.

Special Items
Charcoal - Place on one of your Pokemon army cards. Figures attacked by a fire-type attack from the Pokemon on that card roll 1 less defense dice.

Miracle Seed - Place on one of your Pokemon army cards. Figures attacked by a grass-type attack from the Pokemon on that card roll 1 less defense dice.

Mystic Water - Place on one of your Pokemon army cards. Figures attacked by a water-type attack from the Pokemon on that card roll 1 less defense dice.

[DeathDoom]

If the balls work with the 20-sider, we could add the number of wounds on the captured figure's card to the die roll, or subtract that figure's remaining life from the roll, to signify that weaker Pokemon are easier to catch.
How about:
POKEBALL
After revealing a numbered order marker, instead of taking a turn with the selected figure, you may select 1 (opponent's?) figure within 3 clear sight spaces of your Trainer and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a (16?) or higher, immediately take permanent control of the figure. If the selected figure is a Unique Hero, add 1 to your die roll for each wound marker on that figure's card.
We can use a format like this for all the balls, altering the necessary die roll and adding conditions by the type of ball.

I like the looks of the Potion and the special items.

On drafting items, how about we use a separate point value listed on a Trainer's card that states how many points of items that trainer can control, and then draft the items as Treasure Glyphs on a Trainer's card before the game begins?

[White Knight]

We talked about the formula for capturing Pokemon a while back:


Formula
Catch # = point cost/10 (rounded up) + 10
Roll d20 and add ball bonus, status bonuses, and wounds on the Pokemon

A roll of 1 always misses.

Ball Bonuses
Great Ball +5
Ultra Ball +10
Master Ball (automatic)
(other balls to come)

Status Bonuses (might need to up the +10 to higher to account for status effects)
Paralyzed +4
Asleep +3
Poisoned, Burned, Frozen +2

With a normal ball:
For Pidgey (15 points) you'd need to roll a 12 out of 20
For Charmander (50 points) you'd need to roll a 15 (or a 12 if Char had 3 wounds)
For Pikachu (100 points) you'd need to roll a 20 (or a 17 if Pikachu had 3 wounds)
For a 200 point 8 life Pokémon you couldn't catch it wil a normal ball--you'd need a 30 (or a 23 if the Pokemon had 7 wounds)

With an Ultra Ball
For Pidgey (15 points) you'd need to roll a 2 out of 20
For Charmander (50 points) you'd need to roll a 5 (or a 2 if Char had 3 wounds)
For Pikachu (100 points) you'd need to roll a 10 (or a 7 if Pikachu had 3 wounds)
For a 200 point 8 life Pokémon you'd need a 20 (or a 13 if the Pokemon had 7 wounds)


Of course, all this would be in the rulebook, not on the glyph. The bonuses are not set in stone.

[DeathDoom]

Heh :oops: Musta missed that.

[White Knight]

Heh :oops: Musta missed that.

No problem. It was before your time, and my link on the first page of the scenario thread was wrong (I fixed the link now). And it was a short discussion, so things are open for change.

The main decision is that most people did not want the catch # on the cards.

My son and I tried out capturing Pokemon a little and it seemed to work well. We'll need more playtesting to be sure though.

[White Knight]

Item Ideas
So now we have to decide what the items do. Here are my preliminary ideas:

Pokeball - used to capture Pokemon

Greatball - add +5 to your roll when trying to capture Pokemon

Potion - After revealing an OM, instead of taking a turn you may remove up to 2 wound markers from one of your army cards.

(Do they need to lose a turn? In 1-on-1 battles, do they need to be adjacent to their trainer?)

Full Heal - After revealing an OM, instead of taking a turn you may remove a Status Effect Marker from one of your figures.

(Do they need to lose a turn? In 1-on-1 battles, do they need to be adjacent to their trainer?)

X Items: Place on 1 of your figures for the entire battle.
X Attack - add 1 to your normal Attack
X Defend - add 1 to your Defense
X Speed - add 1 to your Move

Pokedoll - One time use. Put on the battlefield in place of one of your figures. It has a Life of 1, a Move of 0, a Defense of 0, and it cannot attack. If Pokedoll is destroyed, immediately replace Pokedoll with the figure it had replaced. That figure takes no wounds. At any time during your figure's turn you may you may retrieve your Pokedoll and place your figure back on the battlefield.

In a scenario, you may destroy the Pokedoll and immediately end a battle with a wild Pokemon.

Escape Rope - One time use. You may return one figure you control to your Start Zone. That figure takes no leaving engagement attacks.

In a scenario, you may use the Escape Rope to immediate return your Trainer figure to the start of the map.

Special Items
Charcoal - Place on one of your Pokemon army cards. Figures attacked by a fire-type attack from the Pokemon on that card roll 1 less defense dice.

Miracle Seed - Place on one of your Pokemon army cards. Figures attacked by a grass-type attack from the Pokemon on that card roll 1 less defense dice.

Mystic Water - Place on one of your Pokemon army cards. Figures attacked by a water-type attack from the Pokemon on that card roll 1 less defense dice.

Anyone have any comments on the items? Any changes or suggestions?

Last call before we move onto the graphics of the glyphs.

[Warlord Alpha]

Well, glyph graphics will be easy. For that we can just take Pokemon card images.

[White Knight]

Well, glyph graphics will be easy. For that we can just take Pokemon card images.

Do you want to put those together?

[Warlord Alpha]

Yeah, I could do it, although I might need a hand finding suitable images. Actually making it and putting it in a PDF is no problem, though.

[fiddlerjones]

I like what y'all have got for these items so far. Potion looks good, though I don't think you need a clause for adjacency to a trainer, as the trainers won't be figures except in certain scenarios.

[White Knight]

I've been playing around with ideas for what the Item glyphs should look like, so here are some options:

Pictures of the Items (except for the Pokeballs)

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20glyphs/itempictures.png


Options for Backgrounds for the Items

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20glyphs/potionoptions.png


Pokeball Options

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20glyphs/pokeballoptions.png


Great Ball Options

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20glyphs/greatballoptions.png


All pictures are Pokemon Official except the Escape Rope. We'll have a section in the Rulebook describing what each of the Items does. That way we can make special rules for campaigns as well (such as using a Pokedoll to escape a battle with a wild Pokemon).

Comments? Suggestions?

[DeathDoom]

I like the looks of the cards that aren't obviously digital (like the PokeDoll). Do you think that we could use a different background to indicate different types of items? For example, trainer-useable items like the Potion could have the rainbow background, while balls use a blue background.

[Warlord Alpha]

Where did you find those images?

[White Knight]

Where did you find those images?

Bulbapedia:
X items (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Battle_item)
potion and full heal (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Status_ailment_healing_item)
charcoal and others (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Charcoal#Charcoal)

The Pokeballs, Greatballs, and Escape Rope are from Google images.

The Pokedoll is from the Pokedoll Trading Card Game Card. I couldn't find a good watercolor picture for that one.:(

[Kroz]

double post

[Kroz]

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/c/0/0/c/2/AAAADKKubBQAAAAAAAwrFw.jpg?v=1227501361000
Here's a pokedoll for you.

[White Knight]

:lol:
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20glyphs/pokedoll2item.png

[White Knight]

[quote=White Knight;1329131]Item Ideas

Potion - After revealing an OM, instead of taking a turn you may remove up to 2 wound markers from one of your army cards.

(Do they need to lose a turn? In 1-on-1 battles, do they need to be adjacent to their trainer?)

Full Heal - After revealing an OM, instead of taking a turn you may remove a Status Effect Marker from one of your figures.

(Do they need to lose a turn? In 1-on-1 battles, do they need to be adjacent to their trainer?)


I like what y'all have got for these items so far. Potion looks good, though I don't think you need a clause for adjacency to a trainer, as the trainers won't be figures except in certain scenarios.

Since this came up in the other thread, I figured we should decide it now. To use special heal items (potion, full heal, antidote, etc...) does the Pokemon have to be in your start zone (regular battles) or adjacent to your Trainer figure (Trainer figure scenarios and 1-on-1 battles)? Or can you use a potion on a Pokemon on the other side of the battlefield?

[NightSwipe]

Personally, I think you should be able to use it wherever the Pokemon is, but it doesn't make much sense. However, I think that limiting it to the start zone is too limiting. Maybe within a clear LoS of the Trainer?

[DeathDoom]

How about within 3 clear sight spaces? That makes held items a viable option, but allows for more potent trainer items without being too limiting.

[Warlord Alpha]

It might need adjusting, but 3 clear sight spaces sounds like a good place to start.

[White Knight]

How about for classic Scape battles? Within 3 clear sight spaces of your start zone?

[Warlord Alpha]

Maybe just treat them like treasure glyphs in classic scape? In Pokemon either the Pokemon can use it by itself or the trainer has to use it. If it can use it by itself it will probably work like a treasure glyph (or the trainer can use it too).

If there is no trainer we can just let the Pokemon use it by itself, or maybe not allow it at all.

[White Knight]

Maybe just treat them like treasure glyphs in classic scape? In Pokemon either the Pokemon can use it by itself or the trainer has to use it. If it can use it by itself it will probably work like a treasure glyph (or the trainer can use it too).

If there is no trainer we can just let the Pokemon use it by itself, or maybe not allow it at all.

Great point! :D I think treating them like treasure glyphs in normal battles is fine and works well.

In battles with Trainer figures (one-on-one and campaigns) the Pokemon has to be within 3 clear sight spaces of the Trainer to be able to use a Potion/Full Heal/etc... on that Pokemon.