What have we really lost?

[WestonWyse]

It's been three years since I've been on these forums. I moved away, and all my friends didn't. And I never really got the hang of the whole "meeting new people" thing. But then I moved back, and last night we had our first HeroScape night in years.

And I found out it has been discontinued. Thanks, WotC. Between this and 4e, I no longer have any reason to send you my money. But I digress.

So this morning, I'm back on the forums, reading through everyone's reactions over the last few months, but my reaction is honestly starting to lean toward, "So what?"

Now, hear me out. In the end, if WotC is out of the Heroscape business, what have we lost? The customs community is thriving; there will still be new material. We probably all have piles of terrain sitting in our extra bedrooms/attics/garages; I know I have more than I could ever reasonably use at the same time. The old, out of print units will probably be available on eBay for all eternity (and the price will eventually come back down). So what have we *really* lost?

We've lost quality control and a rubber stamp of officiality. I know the customs community does a wonderful job striving for balance and playability, but nothing really beats the plastic packaging that says "People have tried this, it's good to use, and it's approved for all tournaments."

We've lost direction. I know that in a game where the intent was to blend every genre imaginable (Yes, it will blend!) that complaining about a lack of direction seems moot. But story draws people into games far more than mechanics do. And without a declared direction to follow, things can get very chaotic, to say the least.

And probably most importantly, we've lost the ability to gain new players. Without an on-the-shelf Master Set to point people to, swelling the Scaper ranks is going to be nigh impossible. Scrounging eBay for enough terrain and a viable army is going to be an insurmountable task for all but the most hardcore gamers.

But here's the thing: We don't need WotC for any of this. The community can easily step in and fill the gaps left behind. Because, let's be honest, the only two original things about HeroScape were the storyline and the "interlocking" part of the interlocking terrain. Except the Marro, the miniatures are pretty generic. Hex terrain - even varying height hex terrain - is very generic. The ruleset is incredibly generic.

So it's time for us to get busy. It's time for some official unofficial oversight. It's time for centrally organized tournament support (I'm really surprised we don't seem to have that one already...). It's even time to start producing terrain, Mega Bloks style. It's time for us to quit pining over what is lost and instead strive forward to bigger, better, more awesome things. And in this community, I know that will happen. My prediction is that by the end of this year, no one will be missing WotC at all.

HeroScape is dead. Long live HeroScape.

[Lord Pyre]

Spot on!

The last few waves I haven't even bought, since I could care less about D&D, the theme just didn't interest me. I've been much more excited with the C3G superhero releases this last year, which just shows how great our custom community is!

But at a recent tournament, my brother and I won some D3 packs, and they are really great figures. Props to the design team!

[Biggie]

Heroscape said to WotC: "If you destroy me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

[yamissflash]

Heroscape said to WotC: "If you destroy me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

Nice!

To the first post: however, although prices will go down, thats after heroscape loses its popularity, or at least some part of it. So we'll have less members, as people leave for various reasons, but nobody new comes, but we may have some lurkers or previous players join. Sure eventually the devoted will prosper, but thats after they suffer from high prices* and less people playing. *Wave 10 is 59.99 last I checked (the day of this post) on Coolstuffinc.
What could save us now is a re-release of VW, with a deal with Toys "R" Us.
Just my opinion.

[habs1009]

Heroscape said to WotC: "If you destroy me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

Nice!

To the first post: however, although prices will go down, thats after heroscape loses its popularity, or at least some part of it. So we'll have less members, as people leave for various reasons, but nobody new comes, but we may have some lurkers or previous players join. Sure eventually the devoted will prosper, but thats after they suffer from high prices* and less people playing. *Wave 10 is 59.99 last I checked (the day of this post) on Coolstuffinc.
What could save us now is a re-release of VW, with a deal with Toys "R" Us.
Just my opinion.

I agree with you, a VW and RotV re-release would be very nice right about now.

[Robber]

Definitely. I really need a re-release of the terrain expansions (minus the castle) and waves 1-4. And the zombies. :zombie:

[rshorton]

I think re-releases of older waves is definitely one thing we lost. Unless another company buys the rights to Heroscape.

[XDVincent]

Definitely. I really need a re-release of the terrain expansions (minus the castle) and waves 1-4. And the zombies. :zombie:

You hit it bang on, waves 1-6 are ridiculously hard to get, and even wave 7 is getting difficult

[Majora's Incarnation]

I never got my hands on Wave 9, so I pine for the Dwaves and Gladiators. Also in tears due to the lack of Flagbearers, who, at their incredibly hiked price, have vanished off the face of the Earth.

[rshorton]

I never got my hands on Wave 9, so I pine for the Dwaves and Gladiators. Also in tears due to the lack of Flagbearers, who, at their incredibly hiked price, have vanished off the face of the Earth.

I agree. Flagbearers are very pricey now. They are one of the few things I need to finish my collection, but I refuse to pay $250+ for a set of them from E-Bay. :cry:

[SPECTER]

HeroScape is dead. Long live HeroScape.

Couldnt agree more with this closing statement. (Well honestly, the entire post but this ending struck a nerve.) I myself had joined the military and was stationed out in California, with all my Heroscape things back at home here on the East Coast. Just returned in October, only to find the brand at the last of its days. It appeared to be a tragedy at first and though there are still plenty of negatives to list, the upside is that this is a game backed by a fanatical community full of fun loving scapers! Whether the customs become our "official" unofficial direction or we all patiently wait to further our collections with the original figures once the price gouging abates, the game will live on. Power to the players.

[screwDriver]

Definitely. I really need a re-release of the terrain expansions (minus the castle) and waves 1-4. And the zombies. :zombie:

You hit it bang on, waves 1-6 are ridiculously hard to get, and even wave 7 is getting difficult

Perhaps you guys mean waves 2-6. Wave 1 is still available in most online stores and they are not exactly on the expensive side either.

[jcmcminis]

I agree the game will live on through us. When I first discovered scape money was really tight so I do not own a large collection. Only own 1 rotv, 1 marvel, 1 d&d master set, 1 rtff and less than a dozen variors packs from the different waves. But thankfully I have a whole mess of miniatures from my many years of gaming. So I will be making customs for a while and with the great feedback from the others here I know I can make them as balanced as any official uniy.

[Jexik]

Storage space.

[1Mmirg]

The C3V and SoV (and others) are hard at work, striving to get more, excellent Scape available. I have high hopes for these projects.

2011 is the year of FanScape--and it's going to be a great year!

[kolakoski]

Nothing of any significance from where I stand. Terrain can still be purchased at a reasonable price, as can most of the units. The Game endures, as do the Players. In fact, the surface has barely been scratched in terms of gameplay, with all the units, terrain and glyphs that already exist. Most importantly, the Community has become, if anything, stronger. As good as the game is, it is the kind of people it attracts that is its greatest strength.

[winonavampire]

I think one thing we are going to gain is attrition.

The game will pretty much have a one way door. People will go out, but far, far fewer will come in to replace them.

[AMIS]

Unfortunately winonavampire is correct.
Despite the efforts of this community we have lost a major doorway in.

Although I seem to remember xraine had an excellent thread about setting up tournaments to bring in the punters.

[i_r_beej]

Storage space.

Huh. I'll second that! :)

[tcglkn]

The C3V and SoV (and others) are hard at work, striving to get more, excellent Scape available. I have high hopes for these projects.

2011 is the year of FanScape--and it's going to be a great year!

:word: C3V is thriving right now and we even have one of the designers from WotC in our ERB department. Customs don't get more official than this. I also have my eyes on the SoV as they are the BoV of customs. Already several good customs that I would love to play have been voted down because they weren't perfect.

Both projects are something to watch because we plan to use affordable availible minis where possible. (that includes DnD minis unfortunately)

FanScape is thriving.

[Argonaut Apollo]

I was just introduced to HS about a month ago by a friend who (I think) has every figure. Admittedly that makes my involvement much easier, but I just wanted to say...

I'm a new Scaper, and I think it's A LOT of fun!

The ongoing projects for new models and ideas are far more engaging than their corporate ancestors. And anyway, if enough people really cared it is entirely possible to crowd-source the money (and talent) and license HS from WotC. These sorts of things have been done before; facilitating websites (http://www.kickstarter.com/) even exist!

Thanks for having me. I look forward to Theoryscaping with you all!

[WestonWyse]

And anyway, if enough people really cared it is entirely possible to crowd-source the money (and talent) and license HS from WotC.

Even still, the only thing we'd *need* the license for would be to re-release the past Waves of material (which, yes, big loss there...).

Let me tell you about another game I love which was spat upon by its corporate overlords and left to starve in the street. Who's heard of BloodBowl? It's a spinoff of Warhammer. Basically a fantasy (as in with Dwarves) football (as in rugby) boardgame set kind of in the Warhammer universe. Lots of fun. Huge online following. My friends and I played for years. Sound familiar yet?

Then GW decided to focus on their core games -- Warhammer & 40K -- and left their smaller games to basically wither and die. While not actually discontinued, official releases became few and far between, support became non-existent, and (I swear I'm not making this up) they stopped allowing games stores to sell the product. So different path, but same destination: lots of angry fans clamoring for new stuff that never came.

Enter Impact Miniatures (http://www.impactminiatures.com/). Impact Miniatures' cornerstone product is a boardgame called Elf Ball, which is a fantasy football boardgame that is decidedly not set in the Warhammer universe. And they make lots of really well-sculpted miniatures of fantasy characters with footballs, such as the Ratmen (*not* Skaven), the Timberline Elves (*not* Wood Elves), and Black Rock Dwarves (*not* Chaos Dwarves). I know no one that plays Elf Ball. But I know lots of people (myself included) who clamor for new releases of Impact minis.

So, really, there's not much anyone *needs* the license for. Not if they have a bit of creativity.

[Argonaut Apollo]

Great story and great point. Making your own miniature (or collaborating to do so with others) can be half the fun anyway.

[Pilgrim]

Unless HS gets picked up by some other company, the game will live on among some devoted fans like us, just like other great discontinued games have done.

I agree with the above post that that circle of devoted fans will decrease over time as people move on to other things. Those devoted fans will develop great customs and other add-ons. But unfortunately Heroscape will become like so many other obscure hobbies and interest groups. Fun for those within them, but likely not going to grow and incorporate lots of new folks.

So what have we really lost? We've lost the vibrancy, growth and excitement of a living game still in production. It will live on among fans. But let's face it: it won't be the same.

[Dredd Stev]

Unless HS gets picked up by some other company, the game will live on among some devoted fans like us, just like other great discontinued games have done.

I agree with the above post that that circle of devoted fans will decrease over time as people move on to other things. Those devoted fans will develop great customs and other add-ons. But unfortunately Heroscape will become like so many other obscure hobbies and interest groups. Fun for those within them, but likely not going to grow and incorporate lots of new folks.

So what have we really lost? We've lost the vibrancy, growth and excitement of a living game still in production. It will live on among fans. But let's face it: it won't be the same.

Granted it will never be QUITE the same... But if you are longing for the days of sneak peeks and fresh new units then there are still a few fan-projects that are trying to keep things alive in that respect.

I know everyone over at C3V are working very hard to try and produce top-notch new figures with a true-to-classic feel, and without tooting my own horn it's going very well. I really think our first release is going to turn some heads, and hopefully get the community at large buzzing again!

[betawolf36]

All this is true, but eventually Heroscape will just die period unless re-releases are there. It will die because even the serious players will eventually leave, or the people they'd play against will. Though it may take a long time, a LONG time. However if everyone learns how to make their own tiles like another scaper on this sight, I can't remember his name, and we might have something to work with. Endless tiles and figures from other games will make Heroscape a bit more lively.

[flameslayer93]

I believe for the most part, we haven't lost that Mr. spamBot:roll:

[kriegskeks]

Well being in Europe there isn't really that much of a community, but I enjoy the game with my friends. So the only real thing that is lost for me is the possibility to ever get some Gladiatrons. My Blastatrons are useless and I refuse to pay over $40 for a squad of Gladiatrons on eBay.

[Codeman]

All this is true, but eventually Heroscape will just die period unless re-releases are there. It will die because even the serious players will eventually leave, or the people they'd play against will. Though it may take a long time, a LONG time. However if everyone learns how to make their own tiles like another scaper on this sight, I can't remember his name, and we might have something to work with. Endless tiles and figures from other games will make Heroscape a bit more lively.

I assume your Herscape sets are like mine. All my Heroscape sets are all made of plasitc ( I even laminated my cards ).... so as far as I know this plastic will not decompose for well over 1000 years. I don't think we need to worry about re-releases any time soon or at least in my lifetime. Anybody that has it and has played it, I do not believe they would part with it... it is a great game. Heroscape will not die.

[foofoofun]

It seems to me that all we have to do is follow some steps.

1.form a company(consisting of us fans)
2.get the rights to heroscape with said company
3.rerelease a wave or two to gain some profit
4.use gained profit to make new heroscape
5.repeat steps 3 and 4 using ones profit to fund the other

Although a basic version of what would happen it would be the best way to let heroscape last.

[the incredible mate]

Honestly, I was a Heroclix player before I found this game and actually just use my Heroclix figures for this game now because overall it is personally better in almost everyway. Also as a Heroclix player before, It had died for about a year and a half before another company picked it up and ended up bringing out brand new product so no game is ever 100% dead. I honestly can see Some company picking up the scape contract or whatever and start it anew and start coming out with new waves (whether they restart and have it be something different (as long as its not dnd I'm fine)).

All we can do now is keep playing and just have fun and HOPE that someone picks up our favorite game and brings us new product.

All will be well.

[Lokni Lonewolf]

Hey everyone ! I'm a new scaper i just purchased 3 sets earlier this month to get me started.. (swarm of the marro, D&D Battle for underdark and marvel game set) my son loves superheroes so i had to get the marvel one to add too collection... Anyways i wanted to say that this game really rocks and i'm 34 years old! ;-) I am getting some friends of mine involved and hooked as well. I don't see this game dying. I discovered it by accident i was looking through warhammer stuff (way too pricey) and than saw a utube video of top 100 board games....Heroscape was #2 ...what got my attention was the way u can design the game board different everytime and how all the units were beautifully painted and not too pricey either! Dont worry scapers this game has way too much going for it to just die off.. I'm new and discovered it after the discontinue was announced! What gets me is i never heard of this game ever... Maybe they should have done better marketing? Anyways great game great product!

[1Mmirg]

Welcome! Glad you're enjoying this (not so little) game. Hope you enjoy the site. I recommend checking out my INDEX (in my sig, below) for some great reads. Enjoy!

[i_r_beej]

Hey everyone ! I'm a new scaper i just purchased 3 sets earlier this month to get me started.. (swarm of the marro, D&D Battle for underdark and marvel game set) my son loves superheroes so i had to get the marvel one to add too collection... Anyways i wanted to say that this game really rocks and i'm 34 years old! ;-)

Welcome!

And, I'm 40. This isn't really a "kids" game-- it's a game for everyone!

Enjoy.

[the incredible mate]

Adding to my post from earlier, I actually think we've gained something from the dicontinuation of Scape. Yes were not getting anymore new types of terrain or new units but now, we have the freedom to make whatever we want as a community. I know with other miniatures games, whenever something new is announced half the community complains about either the stuff being produced or why that stuff got produced over some other unit.

The great thing about this game is as long as you have some terrain (yes thats ruins, trees etc which would be nice to have it reproduced but you can custom them easily) you can always make units out of anything because the stats aren't that difficult to make. Even making them feel balanced isn't that hard.

So We haven't lost anything We've gained so much... and that happens to be the freedom to make the game as we as a community or individuals see fit.