The Book of Magma

[SirGalahad]

The Book of Magma

C3G MARVEL WAVE 8
THE MUTANT MENACE

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_Magma_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_Magma_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_Magma_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_Magma_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Armor Wars set.
Its number and name are #031-033 / Magma.
_________________________________________________________________
Character Bio - Born and raised as Amara Aquilla, daughter of the First Senator of Nova Roma, she discovers her mutant powers after surviving being tossed into an active volcano. At her father's urging, she leaves her Brazilian rainforest home and joins Professor Xavier (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27881)'s school. Upon her return, she is temporarily led to believe that her real name is Allison Crestmere. Regardless of her true identity, Magma's fiery personality is outwardly expressed in her ability to manipulate the lava that flows just below the earth's crust.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
ERUPTION
A molten lava tile may be placed on any empty land space. She may not place a molten lava tile on a Water, Swamp Water, Ice, Molten Lava or Shadow tile. She may also not place a molten lava tile over a Glyph as the space is not empty.
C3G Lava Rules (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32308)_______________________________________________ __________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Mutant, Magma may be activated by Professor X's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967597) Mutant Mind Link special power.
As a Mutant, Magma may be moved by Cyclops' (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27878) Mutant Field Commander special power.
As an Adventurer, Magma may take a turn with Mr. Fantastic's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1096809) Fantastic Leader 4 special power.
As an Adventurer, Magma may benefit from Invisible Woman's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1096810) Fantastic Force Field 4 special power.
As a Mutant, Magma may be turned into an Outcast by Magneto's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43541) Mutant Recruitment special power.
As a Mutant, Magma may be turned into a Horseman by Apocalypse's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43541) Horsemen of the Apocalypse special power.
Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Mutant, Magma may offer an initiative bonus from Sentinel's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27888) Mutant Detection special power.
As an Adventurer, Magma may add up to 4 dice to The Thing's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30549) attack.
As a Mutant, Magma may enable Jubilee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37861) to take a turn after her as her Mutant Sidekick._____________________________________________________________ ____

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial Playtest: Hahma (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1290433&postcount=56)
Second Playtest: TicklePickle (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1303174&postcount=140)
Third Playtest: marroking1 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1304822&postcount=149)
Fourth Playtest: scapemage (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1305375&postcount=154)

[SirGalahad]

12/02/10 Initial design posted
12/11/10 Necro word change - "unoccupied" to "empty"
12/11/10 Griff - more like Mika Connour
12/11/10 Bats - more like Obsidian Guards
12/12/10 Hahma - Inital Playtest begins
12/13/10 Poll - Change Lava Projectiles to Special Attack
12/15/10 Hahma - expand available radius for Eruption
12/18/10 Hahma - Initial Playtest completed
12/20/10 Design to ERB
12/25/10 Design to Playtesting Phase
01/03/11 Design to Final Editing Phase
01/04/11 Bats - Drop lava tiles to 3
01/05/11 Design to On Deck

[Griffin]

Looks good, but Strong Guy isn't exactly done yet. ;)

[SirGalahad]

Thread reopened for business.

[Hahma]

Thread reopened for business.

Because YOU GOT THE POWER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_j0vcc70Ig)

[NecroBlade]

As I said before, I like this design. My only suggestion so far is change "unoccupied" to "empty" so people aren't trying to place lava on top of glyphs.

[SirGalahad]

Good catch, Necro.

Updated.

[Hahma]

Looks good Sir G. :thumbsup:

[Griffin]

I would like to see Eruption 14 modeled more closely after Mika Connour's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/showimage.php?i=6487&c=11) Blend into Shadows special power.

[SirGalahad]

How do you end your turn on an empty space? When you end your turn, the space isn't empty anymore. :lol:

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. If Magma ends her turn on an empty land space, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card onto the space she occupies if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.

So are "land spaces" any one-hex high tiles that are not road or wall walk?

[NecroBlade]

Any hex with height, including roads and wall-walks - so yes, you can place shadow or create an eruption in the middle of a road to ruin the road bonus. :twisted:

[Griffin]

-Rulings and Clarifications-
Blend Into Shadows:
Molten Lava tiles may be placed on any empty land space. She may not place a Molten Lava tile on a Water, Swamp Water, Ice, Molten Lava or Shadow tile. She may also not place a shadow tile over a Glyph as the space is not empty.

[IAmBatman]

Looks great! With that change, I'd say she's ready to go out of the gate. :-) I really dig this one. It's something I've wanted to see incorporated into the game for quite a while, and it's the perfect character to do it with.
My only thought is that she's probably about 40 points too expensive (though she's a great buddy for Magneto).

[Griffin]

Can LAVA PROJECTILES be modeled after the Lava Guards?

[A3n]

I hate this design. I totally sux.




Ok only because I will never be able to play her :evil:.

Apart from requiring lava tiles it's a great design SirG :up:

Well done.

[SirGalahad]

I hate this design. I totally sux.




Ok only because I will never be able to play her :evil:.

Apart from requiring lava tiles it's a great design SirG :up:

Well done.

I may have a solution for that.

[SirGalahad]

Can LAVA PROJECTILES be modeled after the Lava Guards?


LAVA PROJECTILESWhen Magma is on or adjacent to a same-level molten lava space, you may add 3 to her range and roll 1 additional attack die.


LAVA THROW
When an Obsidian Guard is on a molten lava space it may add two to its range.

I thought she needed more than just a range 2 boost. This is SuperHeroScape after all, and the Obsidians get little table time as they are.

Did you want it in third person "she" instead of second person "you"?

[Griffin]

If the art guys could create some lava stickers that could be cut out and stuck to some extra water tiles, we could have extra lava.

[Griffin]

It is the "adjacent to" aspect that I am questioning. Also, I wouldn't mind if her range was much more significantly increased to like +4 or +5.

[SirGalahad]

-Rulings and Clarifications-
Eruption:
Molten Lava tiles may be placed on any empty land space. She may not place a molten lava tile on a Water, Swamp Water, Ice, Molten Lava or Shadow tile. She may also not place a molten lava tile over a Glyph as the space is not empty.

Fixed ;)

[SirGalahad]

It is the "adjacent to" aspect that I am questioning. Also, I wouldn't mind if her range was much more significantly increased to like +4 or +5.

Front page updated with Eruption and Lava Projectiles changes.

[Griffin]

I like the front page a lot. The cost might come down, but not too much really, because her constitution is pretty darn good and the ability to place lava tiles on the right map could be extremely powerful, especially with the right allies like Jean or Magneto, or any super strength figure with knock back.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, but molten lava isn't quite the killing force it used to be. I think 150 is a better starting point and wouldn't be shocked to see her go down from there.

[Griffin]

I think she may have right about the same value of Plastic Man who is 145.

[IAmBatman]

I think her lack of mobility is a killer.

[Griffin]

A move of 5 + a potential range of 6 = a threat range of 11. Plastic Man's Threat range is 7.....

[IAmBatman]

I'm not talking threat range - I'm talking heights. On a completely flat map, sure, she's looking better, but on one with a lot of elevation changes, he's liking his ability to defy gravity.

[Griffin]

Well she does fly you know... and with a move of 5 it is better than Plastic Man's "jump" of 4.

[IAmBatman]

I actually missed the flying. Now that I see it, I agree that 160 is probably about right.

[Hahma]

Looks great Sir G. and co. :D

Since Sir G. is a A Force Of One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN1I56ygem8) with his "Special Eyes" in cleaning up the Books Of threads, I'm going to get started on the initial playtest on Magma.

[Griffin]

Thanks Hahma.

[Hahma]

Question: To be somewhat consistent with Ice Man's Deep Freeze Special Attack, should we include a line in the Lava Projectiles special power that says "When Magma uses her Lava Projectiles special power to attack a figure with the Lava Resistant special power, roll one fewer attack die."?

[GreyOwl]

Should it even affect figures with the Lava Resistant power?

[IAmBatman]

I actually think she shouldn't be able to use her lava projectiles on units with lava resistance at all. :2cents:

Edit: :ninja:

[Hahma]

Should it even affect figures with the Lava Resistant power?

Well I think the concussive force could do some damage as it's not pure fire, but molten rock or whatever, so while the heat part of it shouldn't hurt them (thus the -1 attack die vs. Lava Resistant figures), I would think the physical blow of the attack would be able to hurt them. I guess it's kind of like why Deep Freeze still can hurt Ice Resistant figures, but the cold part of it doesn't, thus the -1 to attack.

[IAmBatman]

I could get on board with that, then.

[SirGalahad]

Should it even affect figures with the Lava Resistant power?

Well I think the concussive force could do some damage as it's not pure fire, but molten rock or whatever, so while the heat part of it shouldn't hurt them (thus the -1 attack die vs. Lava Resistant figures), I would think the physical blow of the attack would be able to hurt them. I guess it's kind of like why Deep Freeze still can hurt Ice Resistant figures, but the cold part of it doesn't, thus the -1 to attack.

So something like this:

A:

LAVA PROJECTILES
When Magma is on a molten lava space, you may add 5 to her range and roll 1 additional attack die. When Magma uses Lava Projectiles to attack a figure with the Lava Resistant special power, do not roll 1 additional attack die.

or

B:

LAVA PROJECTILES SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 4.
Magma may only use Lava Projectiles Special Attack while on a molten lava space. When Magma uses her Lava Projectiles Special Attack to attack a figure with the Lava Resistant special power, roll 1 fewer attack die.


A: means she could fly up to height and place a molten lava tile, receiving any height bonuses, plus benefit from Cap's Tactician, etc.

B: means it would just be a static 4 attack (3 against Lava Resistant figures)


If B: is the choice, I'd like it to go up to a static 5 (4 against Lava Resistant figures) like Iceman's, as they are in the same point range.

[GreyOwl]

I like A as more thematic, but I think it should be 2 fewer attack die against Lava Resistant figures. I know the rocks hurt and all, but a majority of the damage she inflicts comes from the fact that it's lava.

[Griffin]

I like Hahma's points on this.

[SirGalahad]

So, base attack of 3, add 1 for the Lava Projectiles, then subtract 2 against Lava Resistant figures.

Will that be too much arithmetic for people? :lol:

[Griffin]

I vote for B.

[Hahma]

I'm for B, it's simpler and more in line with Iceman's Deep Freeze.

Regarding the theme of subtracting 2 vs. Lava Resistant because of most of it is heat, the same exact thing can be said for Deep Freeze as most of that is bitter cold, enough to possibly remove an OM. Iceman's normal attack would be the projectile type/concussive, whereas his special attack is a blast of bitter cold, so the effects of that cold vs. Ice Resistant figures should be the same as that of Magma's Lava Projectiles heat effects on Lava Resistant figures IMO.

Okay, but if it's B, then it kind of blows since I already got done with her HH tests vs. Nightcrawler, Plastic Man, Iceman, Blob, Mystique and Huntress. And am part way done with squad test vs. Ninja. But that's okay if I have to do them again with a special attack and no height bonus etc.

It will just take longer to redo this as I have to put second coat of paint in basement bathroom and paint 5 6 panel doors today, as well as other stuff. So I'll continue once this is resolved. :)

[SirGalahad]

Yikes, you are efficiency at the highest!

[Hahma]

Yikes, you are efficiency at the highest!

I get up really early on weekends, as that's my best time for testing before I tackle other tasks I must do. Otherwise when I have the energy to stay up later at night and not posting here, I can test then as well. Though I'm really more of a morning person and especially prefer army testing on weekend mornings with a clearer head. I envy those with entire days to test or play around otherwise. Though, after the holidays I should have less work on the house to do other than the usual stuff people do.

I should have some more morning time during the week before Christmas, as I'm off that week because my daughter is coming in from NY on the 18th to the 23rd for a visit during her Christmas break from college.

[Griffin]

Hahma tests more figures before 9am than most people do for the year. ;)

[GreyOwl]

On second thought, I think B is simpler and probably the best way to go. I still like the 2 less idea, even though it would be inconsistent with Iceman. I can't even say why, I just like it better. :shrug:

[Griffin]

Sometimes we just instinctively know what we want, and there doesn't need to be any logic behind it. It is that animalistic unpredictability that will give us the edge in the fight against the machines when they become self-aware.

[GreyOwl]

I can't wait to kill me some intelligent machines. :)

[IAmBatman]

B ftw!

[A3n]

B for me.

[whitestuff]

B here as well.

[NecroBlade]

B seems so much simpler.

[SirGalahad]

OK - B it is

LAVA PROJECTILES SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 5.
Magma may only use Lava Projectiles Special Attack while on a molten lava space. When Magma uses her Lava Projectiles Special Attack to attack a figure with the Lava Resistant special power, roll 2 fewer attack dice.

[IAmBatman]

:thumbsup:

[Griffin]

Looking good.

[Hahma]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Magma @ 160 POINTS Pass @ 160-170

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS – Have to decide when to drop tiles and when not to.

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS – Not the best vs. Lava Resistant units for her attacks, but her Lava Resistance can help her vs certain fire based attackers. A Special Attack of 5 with range of 6 is pretty sweet in bypassing special defenses.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS - Have to decide when to drop tiles and when not to. Timing and placement of Lava Tiles is key as giving her the most coverage over the map is important, especially vs. ranged opponents and especially with ranged opponents with range of 7+.


Heavy Hitter/ Does it pass? Pass
Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh Map

Vs. Electro – Electro wins with 3 wounds on T4R2. He had 1 better move to make up for her 1 better range. Same special attack number, though she had better defense. Her having to burn a turn to drop a tile costs her a ranged attack with her special attack.

Vs. Nightcrawler – Magma wins with 3 wounds on T6R2. Nightcrawler was able to chip away at her defense due to getting 3 attacks of 3 with Teleport Barrage. However, her special attack bypassed his Teleport Evade and she was able to finish him off. Her having to drop tile at end of turn gives opponent some early attack chances, but if her defense keeps her in it, then when she can attack, she’s dangerous with 5 attack dice.

Vs. Plastic Man – Magma wins with 1 wound on T1R2. Her two attacks were 2/0 and 4/1 to take him out. His attacks were 3/2 and 1/2. So she had dice luck here.

Vs. Plastic Man – Plastic Man wins with 2 wounds on T2R3. This game went longer as they felt more even in this game. She had a couple 3/2 attacks, a 1/2 and a two 2/2 attack. His were 2/2, 3/2, 3/1, 1/3, 1/2 and 2/1. He chipped away and got extra attack do to her having to burn a turn to drop tile.

Vs. Iceman – Iceman wins with 0 wounds on T2/R2. He got a lucky 3/0 attack early and got height to help his defense. Both had same life and special attack numbers. She rolled poorly for her attacks, whiffing on one and a 2/4 attack on the other.

Vs. Sentinel – Sentinel wins with 3 wounds (1 from leaving engagement to fly over her to get to same level) on T5R2. Sentinel is slower with less range, but has same attack number and can attack any time whereas she loses ranged attack to drop tile. Sentinel’s better defense helped.

Vs. Mystique – Magma wins with 1 wound on T4R2. She had better dice luck with 2/1, 3/0 and 2/0 attacks. Mystique tried to force Magma to having to keep dropping tiles as Mystique tried to keep at 7 spaces to attack. She had decent attacks as some were with height 3/2, 3/4, 3/3 and 2/2. Mystiques powers really didn’t matter in this one as Magma didn’t need to engage and Mystiques other powers were useless too.

Vs. Blob – Blob wins with 3 wounds on T6R2. He had some pretty good dice luck with attacks of 1/1, 4/2, 2/1 and 3/1 with Magma having height. Her dropping tiles allows him to close in and he had T6R1 and T1R2 to get adjacent and lock her down.

Vs. Huntress – Magma wins with 3 wounds on T3R2. Her defense with height helped her against Huntress’ crossbow attack from 2 spaces. Huntress didn’t want to engage, as her defense would drop to 4 and only get a single attack of 5 instead of 2 attacks of 5. Her Ruthless Counter Strike would also be useless vs. Magma’s special attack.

Vs. Shurrak – Shurrak finally won with 4 wounds on T5R4. Magma’s attacks were reduced to 3 because Shurrak is Lava Resistant, but she managed to roll 3 skulls with only 3 dice each of her first 3 attacks. Conversely, Shurrak only rolled 1 skull with 5 dice for his first 3 attacks. He did manage to get 2 Knockbacks against her, as his move of 6 helped close in. He Knocked her off her Lava Tile and adjacent to him but then she could use her normal attack. He finally started to roll better and take her out after a long game. His 4 defense wasn’t too hard for her to dent even with 3 dice, though she did have some dice luck.

She feels closer to 150 in HH tests. While her special attack is really good, she loses an attack when she drops a tile and if it's against the wrong opponent, that extra opportunity for the opponent to attack or close in can cost her. Though, it's a good power check for sure.


Squad Test/ Does it pass? Pass
Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map

Vs. Hand Ninja x 2

Magma wins with 2 wounds on T6R3. She planted her Lava Tile on height and the Ninja had to climb up to get to same level as her, but only 2 at a time could fit up there on the 3 space height, so the other would have to attack from below with range. The Ninja rolled poor defense, whiffing 3 times, but she was pretty hot with her attack rolls, so sometimes it didn’t matter what the Ninja rolled for defense. She took her wounds from a 2/1 and 3/2 attack, with the combination of their poor attack rolls and her great defense keeping her around to take them all out. I only consider the Hand Ninja at around 60-65 points without bonding as they have a less threat range than the Stingers and can’t boost their attacks on their own, so in a situation like this vs. a single opponent, they aren’t worth their full points and maybe another couple of Ninja would have made the difference. 150 still feels good as she beat 120-130 points worth of Ninja IMO and should in this situation where she has all OM's and opponent's squad couldn't get height on her.


Army Test 1/ Does it pass? Pass but could go up to 170 due to doing so well in Prof X Mutant Army
Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map

Prof X (220), Scarlet Witch (285) Beast (170) Magma (160) Nightcrawler (140) and Angel (90) for 1065 points

Vs.

Green Goblin (230) Batman (200) Bullseye (170) Hand Ninja X2 (170) Elektra (165) and Robin (120) for 1060 points.

R1- Nightcrawler Bamphs 8 spaces to high ground and Beast moves out. Elektra moves out and puts 1 wound on Beast, then the Hand Ninja move out. Angel Carries Prof X right behind ruin to be hidden and extend his range a little further in the battlefield, then Beast moves to use Whirlwind to kill a Ninja and put 2 wounds on Elektra. Bullseye gets height and attacks Beast with Deadly Aim for 3 wounds (4), then Ninja move and finish off Beast and miss Nightcrawler. Scarlet Witch moves out and puts Curse Marker on Elektra but can’t attack anyone, then Magma moves out and places Lava Tile 3 spaces away onto height. Bullseye moves and uses Deadly Aim against Nightcrawler with height and rolls 4 skulls and NC not only misses TE roll, but whiffs defense with height (though it’s only 4). Ninja move and put 2 wounds on Angel, who Carries Prof X away from next Ninja attack, so that Ninja puts 1 w on Magma with height. (Note: I could have used X marker to avoid wounds on Angel, but other Ninja could have attacked Prof X w/o X marker).

R2- Bullseye moves and attacks with DA vs. Scarlet Witch but she makes him roll his 2 skulls again and he rolls 2 skulls once more and she takes 1 wound with only 1 shield. Same thing happened with one of the Ninja, as it rolled the same 2 skulls as before and she only rolled 1 shield to take wound number 2. The other Ninja had engaged and missed Magma with a 3/4 attack. Magma leaves engagement from that Ninja for no wound to get to Lava Tile on height and puts 3 wounds on Bullseye with a 3/0 attack. Scarlet Witch then Curses Bullseye and kills a Ninja. Bullseye moves to height and rolls 20 for Curse and can’t use Deadly Aim but he can still attack with height and rolls 3 skulls and has to roll again and rolls 3 skulls once again to Scarlet Witch’s whiff, but she can only take 1 wound (3). 2 Ninja attack Scarlet Witch, the first one misses and the second one kills her with a 2/1 attack where the Hex Disturbance roll was only 3. (she rolled very poorly with defense and had bad luck with skulls getting re-rolled, probably an anomaly). The 3rd Ninja missed Prof X. Magma kills Bullseye with a 3/1 attack (as he’s having bad defense rolling issues himself) and Angel Carries Prof X and then kills a Ninja. Batman and Robin both move and attack Magma with height from range, but both miss. Angel Carries Prof X to 3 spaces from Magma, then Magma kills Elektra with a 4/1 attack (more poor defense rolls to skew results somewhat).

R3- Batman moves adjacent to Magma with height and puts a wound on her (2) then Angel uses GA to get Magma out of there and to higher ground. Robin moves and misses Prof X. Angel moves and misses Robin with an attack, then Magma drops a Lava Tile under her. Bats puts a wound on Magma and Angel with a Batarang and misses Prof X. Robin misses Angel and Angel uses GA to move back to height adjacent to Magma and Prof X. Magma puts 1 wound on Batman, then Angel moves back adjacent to Robin and again misses his attack. Green Goblin fly’s over Angel for a Pumpkin Bomb attack that missed Angel, but puts 2 wounds on GG’s teammate Robin, then he misses normal attack on Magma with height. Angel misses Robin again, then Magma puts 1 wound on Green Goblin.

R4- Green Goblin fly’s over Prof X and Magma for a Pumpkin Bomb attack misses Magma but puts 2 wounds on Prof X (who’s saving the X) Magma kills Bats with a 5/2 attack and ES roll of 1. (he continues the bad defense ways of the game), then Angel puts 1 wound (3) on Robin. Bats is dead so no turn. Magma misses Green Goblin and Angel misses Robin. Bats is dead so no turn. Angel misses Robin and Magma misses Green Goblin.

R5- Magma puts 1 wound (2) on Green Goblin and Angel misses Robin. Green Goblin attacks Mags and Prof X with Pumpkin Bomb and puts 3rd wound on Mags and forces Prof X to burn his X marker, then GG misses Prof X with normal attack. Magma misses GG and Angel continues to miss Robin. GG misses both Magma and Prof X with PB attack but kills the X-less Prof X. Prof X dead so no turn. Ninja moves and misses Magma with an attack.

R6- Magma misses GG. GG misses Magma with both PB and normal attack. Mags puts 3rd wound on GG. GG whiffs PB attack and normal attack vs. Magma. Angel disengages from Robin and kills himself a Ninja. Last Ninja moves and attacks Magma with height and misses.

R7- Magma misses GG. GG misses Magma with both PB and normal attack. Magma misses GG. Robin Grapples adjacent to Magma and misses her with a 2/4 attack. Angel fly’s back adjacent to Robin and misses his attack. Last Ninja misses Angel.

R8- Magma has to attack adjacent Robin and whiffs her attack. GG tries to PB vs. Mags, Angel and Robin but whiffs attack but then kills Magma with his normal attack. Magma dead no turn. GG PB vs. Angel, Robin and last Ninja and rolls 3 skulls which is enough to kill all three of them (two of which were his teammates but he’s insane and doesn’t care).

Green Goblin survives to win on T4R8 with 3 wounds. Magma seemed better early on as she was rolling really good attack dice and opponent’s were rolling horrible defense. It also helped when opponent’s were concentrating on Scarlet Witch and leaving Mags to attack without much problem. Scarlet Witch had horrible luck (the Hex was on her) throughout her time in the game, as did Nightcrawler. But on the flipside, Batman missed Evasive Strike when he was attacked and Bulleseye was killed on a 3/0 attack and Elektra was killed with a 4/1 attack. So poor luck happened on both sides. I think Magma felt more like 180 early in the game when Prof X was around and opponent’s concentrated on SW. But later, after Prof X was gone, she didn’t feel as powerful and maybe 170 could help account for Prof X led Mutant Armies.


Army Test 2/ Does it pass? Pass
Played on Martian War: The Heat map

Colossus (260) Cyclops (190) Jean Grey (180) Magma (160) Iceman (150) Avalanche (145) and Toad (95) for 1180 points.

Vs.

Martian Manhunter (300) Deathstroke (280) Absorbing Man (260) Black Canary (190) and Green Arrow (150) for 1180 points.

R1- Martian Manhunter moves and uses Telepathic Dispatch to move Absorbing Man adjacent to MM. Cyclops uses Field Commander to put OM 2 and 3 on Magma and moves Iceman. Martian Manhunter moves to single space height surrounded by Lava Field tiles and uses TD to move his entire army. Magma fly’s to shadow space and places Molten Lava tile on the only other single space height surrounded by Lava Field. Green Arrow moves to shadow and fails to wound Magma with Skill Shot. Magma moves to the Lava tile that she placed last turn and attacks Green Arrow for 3 wounds.

R2- Magma puts 2 wounds on Black Canary with a 3/1 attack. Black Canary moves onto Lava Field space adjacent and lower than Magma and misses her attack on Magma but Green Arrow uses Cupid’s Arrow to put 2 wounds on Magma. Iceman moves to shadow space and misses Black Canary with a 4/4 Deep Freeze attack. Black Canary attacks Magma on height and kills her with a 3/1 attack (Magma obviously not rolling good defense this game). Cyclops moves and attacks with height vs. Absorbing Man and puts 2 wounds on him. Deathstroke moves. Black Canary takes a wound from Lava Field.

R3- Black Canary moves off Lava Field and attacks with height vs. Iceman on shadow space. She puts 2 wounds on and gets Fists of Fury to attack again for another wound and then Green Arrow misses with Cupid’s Arrow Skill Shot. Iceman moves around Black Canary to get height and kills her with a 5/2 Deep Freeze attack. Martian Manhunter moves to shadow space and puts 2 wounds on Cyclops, the TD gets Deathstroke and Absorbing Man to move. Cyclops moves and uses TR to have JG take a turn. JG then moves onto shadow space and then Throws Deathstroke into the molten lava to kill him. Deathstroke’s dead so no turn. Colossus moves and uses Fastball Special to place Toad adjacent to Martian Manhunter for 1 wound (Colossus only needs Clear sight of the space adjacent to MM, so Intangible doesn’t stop him from using FBS.

R4- Colossus moves adjacent to MM and misses with an attack of 1/2 . MM leaves engagement from Colossus and puts 3 wounds on Jean Grey, then TD moves Absorbing man and Green Arrow. Toad had wanted to Tongue Lash Green Arrow onto molten lava but can’t now that GA moved from MM’s TD, so he leaps adjacent to Martian Manhunter and puts a wound on him with a 3/2 attack. Absorbing Man moves onto shadow space adjacent to Jean Grey and misses Ball and Chain attack. JG can’t Throw Absorbing Man and misses with normal attack. Martian Manhunter leaves engagement with Toad and misses Jean Grey with his attack and TD moves Green Arrow. Toad doesn’t take a wound from Lava Field.

R5- Martian Manhunter kills Jean Grey and TD moves Green Arrow. Cyclops moves and misses an attack on Absorbing Man. Green Arrow moves to height and puts a wound on Colossus with Skill Shot. Iceman misses Absorbing Man with a 3/4 attack. Absorbing Man absorbs Martian Manhunter’s 6 defense so he has attack of 8 and kills Iceman. Toad leaps over lava and misses Tongue Lash vs. Absorbing Man but puts a wound on him with Caustic Phlem to knock a Marker from AM’s card to drop him to attack of 7. No wound for AM for being on Lava Field.

R6- Colossus moves onto shadow space and misses attack on Absorbing Man. Absorbing Man sees OM on Toad and doesn’t want to get TL’d into lava as it would kill him if he had markers on his card, so he removes markers and attacks Colossus with Ball and Chain but misses. Toad leaps over lava and misses TL vs. Green Arrow and is out of range to attack with CP. Green Arrow puts 3 wounds on Toad with SS. Cyclops uses FC to place X on Avalanche and moves Avalanche then Cyc attacks and misses Absorbing Man. Martian Manhunter moves to height and kills Toad.

R7- Absorbing Man moves through molten lava to get to height and attacks Colossus with Ball and Chain but misses with 2/3 attack. Cyc moves and puts 2 wounds on Absorbing Man with Optic Blast. Green Arrow misses Colossus with SS. Colossus leaves engagement with Absorbing Man for 1 wound to engage MM on height and puts 1 wound on the Martian. MM puts 1 wound on Colossus. Colossus misses attack vs. MM.

R8- MM puts a wound on Colossus and uses TD to move Green Arrow and Absorbing Man. Colossus puts a wound on Martian Manhunter. Absorbing Man moves adjacent to Cyclops and kills him with his Ball and Chain 4/0 attack. Cyclops is dead so no turn. Green Arrow moves and attacks with height with SS and puts 3 wounds on Avalanche. Colossus whiffs his attack against Martian Manhunter.

R9- Colossus misses with a 1/1 attack vs. Martian Manhunter. MM attacks with height vs. Colossus and kills him with a 5/1 attack then moves AM with TD. Colossus is dead so no turn. Martian Manhunter kills Avalanche.

Martian Manhunter with 4 wounds, Absorbing Man with 5 wounds and Green Arrow with 3 wounds survive to win on T4R9.

There was some bad luck on both sides as Deathstroke got thrown into molten lava by JG and he didn’t get to attack. But Colossus rolled some terrible dice later vs. Martian Manhunter.

Magma did well for her part as she took away one of the 2 single space height positions with her lava tile. She put 3 wounds on Green Arrow on T6R1 and then 2 wounds on Black Canary on T1R2. So she benefited by getting a T6 and the following T1. She got killed by a Black Canary/Green Arrow tag team. I’d intended to have her have fun moving around in the lava in the middle of the map and not need to place tiles from her card and waste a turn, but things changed as Martian Manhunter’s Telepathic Directive moved his teammates really well and Mags moved to where she could deal with the oncoming BC and GA.

Mags was tested at 160 in this game and her team lost (though it was close), even after getting an insta kill of a 285 point Deathstroke without him even getting into the play. Though, Avalanche got killed too without getting into the mix and Colossus had some horrible attack rolls vs. Martian Manhunter.

She seemed worth more in Prof X army while he was alive, but didn’t have as much luck after he died in that game. She did good in this game at 160, but her team lost. Don’t know if that lost attack to place the lava tile cost the team or not. She still did okay if she were at 170 for Army Test 2.

[IAmBatman]

Good start! Seems she might be closer to 150 than 160 so far, but it'll be interesting to see what she's like in an army test with someone like Magneto on her team.

[Hahma]

Updated test sheet with squad test.

Also need the test sheet linked to first post please. :D

[IAmBatman]

Yep, 150 is still feeling like a winner.

[SirGalahad]

Updated test sheet with squad test.

Also need the test sheet linked to first post please. :D

Thanks and Done

[Hahma]

Updated test sheet with squad test.

Also need the test sheet linked to first post please. :D

Thanks and Done

Link didn't work on first post Sir G.

[SirGalahad]

Updated test sheet with squad test.

Also need the test sheet linked to first post please. :D

Thanks and Done

Link didn't work on first post Sir G.

Fixed

[IAmBatman]

Yipes ... the X-Men are gonna roll in that match. That's my prediction looking at those teams. :-P

[Hahma]

Yipes ... the X-Men are gonna roll in that match. That's my prediction looking at those teams. :-P

Probably. I actually never have played Scarlet Witch yet, so I wanted to give her a shot and bypass the old standby of JG and Cyc.


Anyway Sir G. Here are a couple pix that I had of her from a while ago.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/C3Gminipictures045.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/C3Gminipictures044.jpg

[A3n]

Yipes ... the X-Men are gonna roll in that match. That's my prediction looking at those teams. :-P

Probably. I actually never have played Scarlet Witch yet, so I wanted to give her a shot and bypass the old standby of JG and Cyc.


Anyway Sir G. Here are a couple pix that I had of her from a while ago.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/C3Gminipictures045.jpg


Just link that one SirG it's the best.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

:word: Much better boob definition. :-P
Btw, Scarlet Witch + Professor X = naaaasty.

[SirGalahad]

Yipes ... the X-Men are gonna roll in that match. That's my prediction looking at those teams. :-P

Probably. I actually never have played Scarlet Witch yet, so I wanted to give her a shot and bypass the old standby of JG and Cyc.


Anyway Sir G. Here are a couple pix that I had of her from a while ago.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/C3Gminipictures045.jpg


Just link that one SirG it's the best.

Cheers

On front page

[Hahma]

Here's the current version of ERUPTION

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. If Magma ends her turn on an empty land space, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card onto the space she occupies if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.

I was wondering if anyone would be interested in changing it to something like this below. The only reason I'm asking, is that I think that there was some buzz or excitement early on about the possibilities of her placing Lava Tiles onto road spaces or some other key spots. The thing is that as the power currently works, you might waste a lot of OM's on her or turns if used with Prof X, for her to get to those key spots to block a road or to put lava into a bottleneck area.

She can only attack with her special attack while on a Lava Tile, but she loses an attack with that special attack when she has to place the tile. So she'd lose a lot of attack opportunities just getting to those key spaces to drop the tile. Right now, she may have no reason to drop too many tiles unless she's the last figure and has to chase an opponent that out-ranges her. I don't know what anyone thinks about this, and it might bump her cost a little, but I didn't know how important the desire for her to use her Lava Tiles to block passages or hem opponent's in somewhere. I could allow her to drop a tile onto height a few spaces away that she couldn't reach with her move and then go there next turn and attack. Currently, she would have to wait until the next turn to get to that height and drop the tile and not be able to attack. So I guess we have to decide if we like how she currently is and her price level, or if we'd want her to have more options with the tile placement and get more use out of the placement to affect opponents rather than mostly just using it as a place for her to park herself and cover a radius of 6 spaces with that special attack and maybe not have need or desire to use more than one tile in a game.

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. After moving and instead of attacking with Magma, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card onto any empty land space within 3 clear sight spaces of her, including the space she occupies if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.

[Griffin]

Here's the current version of ERUPTION

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. If Magma ends her turn on an empty land space, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card onto the space she occupies if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.

I was wondering if anyone would be interested in changing it to something like this below. The only reason I'm asking, is that I think that there was some buzz or excitement early on about the possibilities of her placing Lava Tiles onto road spaces or some other key spots. The thing is that as the power currently works, you might waste a lot of OM's on her or turns if used with Prof X, for her to get to those key spots to block a road or to put lava into a bottleneck area.

She can only attack with her special attack while on a Lava Tile, but she loses an attack with that special attack when she has to place the tile. So she'd lose a lot of attack opportunities just getting to those key spaces to drop the tile. Right now, she may have no reason to drop too many tiles unless she's the last figure and has to chase an opponent that out-ranges her. I don't know what anyone thinks about this, and it might bump her cost a little, but I didn't know how important the desire for her to use her Lava Tiles to block passages or hem opponent's in somewhere. I could allow her to drop a tile onto height a few spaces away that she couldn't reach with her move and then go there next turn and attack. Currently, she would have to wait until the next turn to get to that height and drop the tile and not be able to attack. So I guess we have to decide if we like how she currently is and her price level, or if we'd want her to have more options with the tile placement and get more use out of the placement to affect opponents rather than mostly just using it as a place for her to park herself and cover a radius of 6 spaces with that special attack and maybe not have need or desire to use more than one tile in a game.

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. After moving and instead of attacking with Magma, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card onto any empty land space within 3 clear sight spaces of her, including the space she occupies if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.
I like it. It give her a bit more use in a different way, which is nice since she is giving up her attack. :up:

[IAmBatman]

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. After moving and instead of attacking with Magma, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card either on the space Magma occupies or onto any empty land space within 3 clear sight spaces of her, if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.

If she's occupying it, it's not empty. :-P

[Hahma]

Here's the current version of ERUPTION

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. If Magma ends her turn on an empty land space, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card onto the space she occupies if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.

I was wondering if anyone would be interested in changing it to something like this below. The only reason I'm asking, is that I think that there was some buzz or excitement early on about the possibilities of her placing Lava Tiles onto road spaces or some other key spots. The thing is that as the power currently works, you might waste a lot of OM's on her or turns if used with Prof X, for her to get to those key spots to block a road or to put lava into a bottleneck area.

She can only attack with her special attack while on a Lava Tile, but she loses an attack with that special attack when she has to place the tile. So she'd lose a lot of attack opportunities just getting to those key spaces to drop the tile. Right now, she may have no reason to drop too many tiles unless she's the last figure and has to chase an opponent that out-ranges her. I don't know what anyone thinks about this, and it might bump her cost a little, but I didn't know how important the desire for her to use her Lava Tiles to block passages or hem opponent's in somewhere. I could allow her to drop a tile onto height a few spaces away that she couldn't reach with her move and then go there next turn and attack. Currently, she would have to wait until the next turn to get to that height and drop the tile and not be able to attack. So I guess we have to decide if we like how she currently is and her price level, or if we'd want her to have more options with the tile placement and get more use out of the placement to affect opponents rather than mostly just using it as a place for her to park herself and cover a radius of 6 spaces with that special attack and maybe not have need or desire to use more than one tile in a game.

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. After moving and instead of attacking with Magma, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card onto any empty land space within 3 clear sight spaces of her, including the space she occupies if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.
I like it. It give her a bit more use in a different way, which is nice since she is giving up her attack. :up:

Well she couldn't attack with the special attack before because she had to wait until the end of her turn to place the tile beneath her. This way, she could kind of plan her placement to attack from better by being able to place it away from her. She could also sacrifice her attack to block a movement or force someone to go around, so now it gives her more options. I think the new way would give her better use of the lava than the other way and I think that's what people might be looking for with a power to place lava tiles.

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. After moving and instead of attacking with Magma, you may place a molten lava tile from her Army Card either on the space Magma occupies or onto any empty land space within 3 clear sight spaces of her, if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.

If she's occupying it, it's not empty. :-P

Nice fix. :D

I just come up with brilliant ideas, I let the scholars make the wording happen. :p

[IAmBatman]

:lol: Well nice work, then.

[Hahma]

:lol: Well nice work, then.

Thanks, I do what I can with my limited brain cells. :)

[SirGalahad]

I am OK with that change. Front page updated.

How will that affect your already-completed tests?

[Hahma]

I am OK with that change. Front page updated.

How will that affect your already-completed tests?

Not so much in HH tests as a lot of the time she would get locked up and not wanting to disengage and having to burn another turn to drop another tile, as that was a tactic of the opponent. She'd get height easy enough already, so she often didn't' need to go anywhere else. This change could make her feel more like 160 than 150 in the HH and Squad test. Instead of moving 5 spaces from the SZ onto a low space and either drop the tile there or save it, she could extend her move/range in a manner where she'd still do her original move from the SZ but instead of dropping the tile on lowland so she can attack next turn, (or not dropping and wasting next turn getting to height to stand her ground), she'd be able to place the tile on height up to 3 spaces away and then on T2 be able to get to the desired spot and attack that turn.

So I'm not really concerned about my tests done to date, ( I've done a ton, including the ones with the original write-up), as instead of feeling her points dropping to 150, they may stay at 160 for those tests. However, I think she may go up a tad in army tests, but we'll see.

[Hahma]

Since Sir G is okay with the change, I will resume testing with that change.

I held off continuing Army Test 1 (I got through Round 1) until I presented this change and it was excepted. I will probably reconfigure the army a little bit as I think her value is at least back up to 160 and I slotted her at 150 for this army test based on HH and squad tests. I'm not going to suggest anything else, as I think this was it that I could see for her. I think the "fun" will increase for her with more options. :D

[Hahma]

Yipes ... the X-Men are gonna roll in that match. That's my prediction looking at those teams. :-P

Hmmmmm........never discount the Ninja/Assassin combo muh hah ha.

In the first game I started and got through Round 1, the X-Men were doing some rolling already. I learned some stuff for new strategy for the second go. :twisted:

With the change made to Magma's Eruption, I bumped her back to 160 and swapped out Iceman and replaced him with Nightcrawler (man this guy just needs his Teleport Evade bumped down to 9 or something).

I've gotten through a few rounds and only Magma, Prof X and Angel are left of X-Men team and Bats, Robin, Green Goblin and a coupe Ninja are left for other team. Mags is looking pretty "hot" in Prof X team so far and may feel up to 180 in his army as she can get to height and Erupt while Prof X has another Mutant attack to make up for Magma's missed attack for placing a Lava Tile. That said, she wouldn't have that luxury without the double activation that Prof X provides.

I chose the Ninja/Assassin and Batman/Robin combo for their bonding and to help offset Prof X double activation. Green Goblin fits in as his cost pretty much made up the difference after others in army and his mobility and multiple attack ability could also help vs. Prof X led Mutants.

[IAmBatman]

We might go for 170 as middle ground for her ... I think mutants mostly need to be priced for how well they do in a Professor X army because that's going to be the default army build for most of them.
I guess Scarlet Witch didn't tear it up for you like she has for me? :-P

[Hahma]

We might go for 170 as middle ground for her ... I think mutants mostly need to be priced for how well they do in a Professor X army because that's going to be the default army build for most of them.
I guess Scarlet Witch didn't tear it up for you like she has for me? :-P

Yeah, well...Scarlet Witch was tearing it up for her part for the 1 round match I started before making the last change. But in the new game, let's just say that when someone rolls 3 skulls against her and after re-rolling them to show up as skulls again and her whiffing defense, it wasn't going to go well for her.

[IAmBatman]

Yuck. Yeah, I guess that could do it. :-P
We soo need to just do a Nightcrawler version 2.0 that costs like 150 and has a roll of 9 for his disappearing power.

[Hahma]

Yeah, totally need a Nightcrawler like that. Just that change would make a big enough difference to make him feel more like Nightcrawler. I mean, he should be a lot harder to hit than he is. I'm fine with his other powers/stats, but the d20 roll for Teleport Evade is too high considering his defense is only 3 and he only has 4 lives.

[IAmBatman]

We can release him as part of the "Oops, We Did It Again," along with Magneto with 5 lives and Darkseid who costs 10 extra. :-P

[Hahma]

We can release him as part of the "Oops, We Did It Again," along with Magneto with 5 lives and Darkseid who costs 10 extra. :-P

That can be wave 4.5 :D

[Hahma]

Updated test sheet with Army Test 1.

[IAmBatman]

170 is still looking solid!

[Hahma]

Just finished Army Test 2. I can't update test sheet until either late tonight or early tomorrow morning as I'm leaving in about a 1/2 hour to go to O'Hare airport to pick up my daughter who's flying in from NY for most of the week.

[SirGalahad]

Excellent write-up as usual sir. Family first. I don't know how much I'll be on the next week or so, but I'll try and check in at least every other day.

[Hahma]

Updated test sheet with Army Test 2.

[IAmBatman]

I still think 170 is justified, just because of how easy it is for her to be drafted into a synergistic mutant army with figures like Jean and Magneto who can toss enemies into her lava.

[Hahma]

Yeah, that's true. And even Toad can Tongue Lash someone into her lava or any other types of knockback or power that would place a figure onto a space.

I would go with 170 to ERB

[SirGalahad]

I propose that Magma be sent to ERB at 170

[Hahma]

yea

[Griffin]

Yea

[GreyOwl]

yea

[NecroBlade]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

yea

[A3n]

Yea

[SirGalahad]

Just need Spidey and Whitey.

[whitestuff]

Yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

After getting caught up and reading all of this thread, Yea.

[IAmBatman]

This passes to ERB!

[SirGalahad]

Sent to ERB!

[IAmBatman]

Sweet!
With no competition in the playtesting thread, I think she could zip through there once she gets to that Phase.

[SirGalahad]

From Eclipse:

I don't know the character all that well, but can she actually fly now? Seems an odd power for a earth based hero.

Neat powers overall though. Definitely some neat tricks.

[Griffin]

Looks good so far. :up:

~ Griff, assuming she can actually fly right

[Hahma]

Looks good so far. :up:

~ Griff, assuming she can actually fly right

Here's some geeks discussing her flying (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=323244&page=3) :D

[SirGalahad]

From Wiki:

Abilities


Flight
Ability to generate and control lava
Fire manipulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superhuman_features_and_abilities_in_fiction#Fire_and_heat_man ipulation)
Earth manipulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superhuman_features_and_abilities_in_fiction#Earth_manipulatio n)

[Griffin]

"Fly you fools."

[SirGalahad]

ERB from hi1x4

Edits are below in red. I like where you went with this unit, nice job! Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGalahad
For your reviewing pleasure:

MARVEL

MAGMA
AMARA AQUILLA

MUTANT
UNIQUE HERO
ADVENTURER
FIERY

MEDIUM 5

LIFE 4

MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 3
DEFENSE 6

170 POINTS

ERUPTION
Magma starts each game with 4 molten lava tiles on her Army Card. After moving and instead of attacking with Magma, you may either place a molten lava tile from her Army Card either on the space Magma occupies or onto any empty land space within 3 clear sight spaces of her, if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space. What does fits normally mean? I guess if there is a ruin next to the space it won't exactly fit, and I can't think of anything else that could clear it up any more, so I would just say make sure to have an FAQ section with her that explains what normally means.

LAVA PROJECTILES SPECIAL ATTACK

Range 6. Attack 5.
Magma may only use Lava Projectiles Special Attack while on a molten lava space. When Magma uses her Lava Projectiles Special Attack to attack a figure with the Lava Resistant special power, roll 2 fewer attack dice.

LAVA RESISTANT
Magma never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage and does not have to stop in molten lava spaces.

FLYING SYMBOL


Thanks for your insight.

Well done all around. Good luck to you C3G designers!


I think moving the "either" to where hi suggests makes it sounds like you or going to either "place" or another verb, which is not the intent. The "either" is for location, so I think it is in the correct place.

With no major concerns, I propose that Magma move to the Playtesting Phase.

[whitestuff]

Yea

[NecroBlade]

Yea

[Hahma]

yea

[GreyOwl]

yea

[IAmBatman]

Yea!

[A3n]

Yea

[SirGalahad]

Just need Griffin and Spidey!

[Griffin]

Yea

[NecroBlade]

Would "on either" be even more clear than "either on"?

[SirGalahad]

Would "on either" be even more clear than "either on"?


Probably -- updated.

[SirGalahad]

This passes to Playtesting!

Merry Christmas everybody.

[IAmBatman]

Merry Christmas! :-)

[IAmBatman]

Sir G - should we give the playtesters the new lava rules to go with her when testing? It seems like a good idea for her to be tested with these rules, not the old ones ...

[SirGalahad]

Sir G - should we give the playtesters the new lava rules to go with her when testing? It seems like a good idea for her to be tested with these rules, not the old ones ...
Probably a good idea. I'll send them along as well.

[IAmBatman]

Cool beans. Or baked beans in this case!

[SirGalahad]

Green bean casserole FTW!

[IAmBatman]

Crap ... now I'm hungry.

[SirGalahad]

Lunch is at 1 at my mom's house.

[SirGalahad]

Info and Optional Lava Rules PM'd to Tickle and scapemage. Good Pig wants to wait for something - I don't know what.

[A3n]

Green bean casserole FTW!

That doesn't sound enticing. :|

What does FTW stand for? I keep reading it as FWIW & then realise that it's not that :?.

[GreyOwl]

"For the Win" ?

[IAmBatman]

FTW = For the win!
FWIW = For what it's worth
WTF = Um ... Wait, then fire. :-D Yeah ...

[Griffin]

Green bean casserole FTW!

That doesn't sound enticing. :|

What does FTW stand for? I keep reading it as FWIW & then realise that it's not that :?.
The gang educated you on your lack of internet slang, so I will address the first part. Green Bean Casserole is an awesome dish that is full of green beans, cream of mushroom, and topped with crispy fried onions and then baked to a delicious perfection of southern American culinary perfection. Ya heard! ;)

[A3n]

Green bean casserole FTW!

That doesn't sound enticing. :|

What does FTW stand for? I keep reading it as FWIW & then realise that it's not that :?.
The gang educated you on your lack of internet slang, so I will address the first part. Green Bean Casserole is an awesome dish that is full of green beans, cream of mushroom, and topped with crispy fried onions and then baked to a delicious perfection of southern American culinary perfection. Ya heard! ;)

:puke:


:p

[SirGalahad]

FTW = For The Win!

I had seen it used on this site before without issue, so I apologize for catching the contagion that affects my teenagers. :lol:

:ninja: by just about everybody

For added flair this year, small bits of ham and onion were added.

[IAmBatman]

It's not the south if there's not at least one vegetable dish with pork product in it. :-D

[Griffin]

It's not the south if there's not at least one vegetable dish with pork product in it. :-D
You darn skippy. :D

[SirGalahad]

Besides, that's "South" with a capital S

GO SAINTS!

[IAmBatman]

Go Lions!
Wait ... what? :-D
Um, so, any playtest results yet?

[SirGalahad]

PM'd all 3 (tcglkn, scapemage, and marroking1) just now.

EDIT: All replied - 2 in progress, but marroking1 was buried under the Nor'easter without power.

[SirGalahad]

Tickle's playtest report:

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Magma

- THEME TEST/
PASS? Not sure if she should be this good or if she needs to been toned back some.

- MIRROR TEST/
PASS

- BONDING TEST/
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/
PASS

- POWER CHECK/
FAIL
I'm was a little worried about placing Lava tiles on maps and how broken it could be, and was sure the Heroes have discussed this. After playing her, I was able to use her in a couple of easy combinations that take advantage of her powers. For only 240 points, you can have her and Chronos and that feels so broken.

- FUN TEST/
PASS It's always fun to cause your opponent to die in Hot Lava Death. :twisted:

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/
FAIL, she is easily put into combos that make her feel broken.

- DRAFTING TEST/
PASS

- USAGE TEST/
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? Pass. She seems balanced 1v1.
Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma (170) VS Beast (170)
Round 3 Turn 3
Beast won with 4 wounds.

TEST 2
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma (170) VS Huntress (170)
Round 2 Turn 1
Magma won with 1 wound. Magma's SA was a good counter to Huntress here.

TEST 3
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma (170) VS Elektra (170)
Round 3 Turn 1
Magma won with no wounds. Elektra just had really bad luck.

TEST 4
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma (170) VS Bullseye (175)
Round 2 Turn 3
Bullseye won with 1 wound. Deadly Aim is a fun, simple, powerful power. Enough said.

TEST 5
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma (170) VS Blob (165)
Round 2 Turn 2
Blob won with 1 wound. Blob got a good attack of 5 skulls and Mamga only rolled 1 shield.




_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass? Pass. Agents got really lucky with their attacks.
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma (170) VS SHIELD Agents x1 + 2 extra (183)
Round 2 Turn 2
Spoiler Alert!
SHIELD Agents won with 4 Agents left
Magma's SA would not work, and the Agents were rolling hot.




_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? Pass. Although, I only used Magma and Jean. Admittedly Jean did a lot of damage with her throw, but that's part of the game. Jean is scary on a Lava Map.
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma, Professor X, Jean Grey, Angel, Cyclops (850) VS Sinestro, Arkillo, Sinestro Corps Soldier x2 (860)
Round 4 Turn 3
Spoiler Alert!
Magma w/ 3 wounds, and Professor X, Angel and Cyclops all unwounded won.
R1 - Jean and Magma move out. Arkillo motivates the other SCS and Sinestro by destroying a SCS. Jean moves and Angel carrys ProfX to a shadow space. Jean blocked Sinestro's attack, then the SCS moves forward. Magma moves and drops a Molten Lava tile. Jean gives Sinestro a wound. Sinesto gets height and gives Magma 2 wounds. SCS gives Magma one wound.

R2 - Jean threw Sinesto into the Molten Lava tile that Magma created and Sinestro rolled a 6. No more Sinestro (OM1 2 and 3 were on him) Jean then gave the SCS 1 wound. Magma forced the SCS to burn a Battery Marker. Jean's attack was blocked, and Magma whiffed her SA roll. Jean forced SCS to burn his last marker then Magma's SA was nearly blocked by his 2 defense. (he took 1 wound).

R3 - Arkillo advances. Jean kills the SCS and Magma gives Arkillo 1 wound. Jean blocked Arkillo's attack. Arkillo blocks Jean and Magma's (SA) attacks. Arkillo gives Jean a wound. Arkillo blocks their attacks

R4 - Jean gives Arkillo a wound, but Magma didn't attack and moved and placed a Lava tile under her. Arkillo gives Jean 2 wounds with his normal attack. Jean forces Arkillo to burn a marker; Magma's attack is blocked. Arkillo kills Jean with Eviscerate and Magma blocks his normal attack. Arkillo blocks Cyclop's attack but Magma kills him with her SA.




_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? FAIL. Magma with Chronos is broken. He can drop Glyphs and she can drop Lava. The TD glyph is broken enough on a Lava map, now it can be broken on any map for a mere 170 points.
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma, Doctor Doom C3G, Chronos (615) VS Alfred, Batman, Robin, Commissioner Gordon, and 5th Precinct Beat Cops x2 (600)
Round 6 Turn 1
Spoiler Alert!
2 cops and Commissioner Gordon with 2 wounds won
R1 - Magma moves and drops a Molten Lava tile. Com. Gordon moves 4 spaces so he can move all 6 cops with him. Magma moves and places a Molten Lava tile under her on the raised dungeon single hex. Com. Gordon moves 5 spaces and leave 1 cop behind. Chronos moves. Batman and Robin move.

R2 - Chronos moves and drops a Glyph. Batman uses his Bat-a-rangs, Chronos blocks 1 skull, but Magma takes 2 wounds. Robin gives Chronos 3 wounds. Chronos drops another Temporal Displacement Glyph and uses Time Bandit. Batman takes the TD glyph, moves Magma down from her height and rolls 5 skulls for his attack. Robin's attack is blocked. Batman blocks Magma's SA (no thanks to Evasive Strike, I never get that power to work.) Magma blocked Com. Gordon's attack. Batman took a Lava Field wound.

R3 - Magma gives Batman 2 more wounds. Batman drops Magma down to the lower Molten Lava with the glyph, then rolls 5/6 shields for his attack. The one skull was blocked. Dr. Doom attacks Batman and kills him. OM 2 lost on Batman. Dr. Doom lands on the TD glyph, moves Robin adjacent to him, gives him 3 wounds, then gets his Power Drain roll and kills Robin. OM3 wasted on Alfred (Was hoping to extract Batman but he took his wounds too fast). Doom, a cop and Com. Gordon all took a Lava Field wound. \

R4 - Com. Gordon blocked Magma's SA. Beat Cops move to height, take the TD glyph and move Magma down to low dungeon. 3 attacks of 3 do not harm Magma. Dr. Doom kills a cop and fails his Power Drain roll. Cops use TD glyph to throw Dr. Doom into Molten Lava. Roll of 8 kills Dr. Doom. 3 attacks of 3 cannot wound Magma. OM3 lost on Doom. Cops cannot wound Magma. Com. Gordon takes a Lava Field Wound.

R5 - Magma kills a cop. Magma blocks all 3 cop's attacks. Magma places a Lava Tile under herself. Alfred uses his Shotgun on Magma and gives her one wound and kills the cop engaged with her. Magma kills Alfred with her SA and OM3 is lost on Alfred.

R6 - Com. Gordon kills Magma.





Summary:
I would like to see her defense either reduced by 2, her Lava tiles dropped to 2, or her cost upped to 200-220. She is just too good for her points as is. If you reduced her defense it would make her fall more quickly and probably drop Lava quicker. If you reduced her Lava tiles, you would have to think more about where you wanted her to drop the Lava at. Just some thoughts, she is fun, but too strong for her current point level. As I have shown she can be easily put into Armies that take advantage of her powers. I didn't even use Dr. Doom's Pit Trap power. I could also easily use her in tandem with Puppet Master or Magneto to take advantage of her Lava. Let me know if you need more information.

Tickle Pickle


tc

[whitestuff]

- Army Test/ Does it pass? FAIL. Magma with Chronos is broken. He can drop Glyphs and she can drop Lava. The TD glyph is broken enough on a Lava map, now it can be broken on any map for a mere 170 points.
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Magma, Doctor Doom C3G, Chronos (615) VS Alfred, Batman, Robin, Commissioner Gordon, and 5th Precinct Beat Cops x2 (600)
Round 6 Turn 1
Spoiler Alert!
2 cops and Commissioner Gordon with 2 wounds won

Summary:
I would like to see her defense either reduced by 2, her Lava tiles dropped to 2, or her cost upped to 200-220. She is just too good for her points as is. If you reduced her defense it would make her fall more quickly and probably drop Lava quicker. If you reduced her Lava tiles, you would have to think more about where you wanted her to drop the Lava at. Just some thoughts, she is fun, but too strong for her current point level. As I have shown she can be easily put into Armies that take advantage of her powers. I didn't even use Dr. Doom's Pit Trap power. I could also easily use her in tandem with Puppet Master or Magneto to take advantage of her Lava. Let me know if you need more information.
Tickle says fail here... but, didn't she lose this match? :?:

[IAmBatman]

On one hand, I do think his tests showed that her lava tiles can be abused both by her player and by the opponent, which is an aspect of balance right there ... On the other hand I do understand his feeling that being able to have such a powerful affect on the game is worth more points.
I think of his proposed solutions, I most like the idea of dropping the number of lava tiles she lays. I wonder if we couldn't get away with dropping that number to 3, though, instead of 2?

[Hahma]

On one hand, I do think his tests showed that her lava tiles can be abused both by her player and by the opponent, which is an aspect of balance right there... On the other hand I do understand his feeling that being able to have such a powerful affect on the game is worth more points.
I think of his proposed solutions, I most like the idea of dropping the number of lava tiles she lays. I wonder if we couldn't get away with dropping that number to 3, though, instead of 2?


Well unfortunately, he only played Magma on one map, Martian Warzone. That map can be confining as it is because of both the molten lava and lava field. So when she throws more lava tiles on the narrow sides of that map, it makes it more difficult to navigate with ground units where you wouldn't be within whatever spaces Jean or Mags could Throw someone into either Magma's Lava or Map's Lava. Same with the TD Glyph. Also on that map, she can place her lava tiles to create choke points and still be able to use the middle of the lava to move around and use her Special Attack.

That said, as you mentioned Bats, both sides can take advantage of her lava tiles. The opponent can have Jean Grey or Magneto or other units that can move other figures around or knock them back. So it can be a two way street there.

Like any Mutant, she is going to benefit from being in Prof X's army. But then again, that's why he's 220 points. For her, she has to use a turn just to place a lava tile and that's easy enough to do with Prof X, but what about w/o Professor X? How often can you waste an OM just to throw a lava tile. Also, on a map that isn't Martial Warzone: The Heat, she is mostly useful if she can actually use her special attack, so she has to be careful where she places them because if she doesn't place them right, then an opponent can get height on her or out range her because she is locked in to only a few spots she can use her ranged attack from.

I can see the lava tiles on her card reduced to 3, as I don't recall how often I used all 4 if at all, but it would help keep it from being abused too much.

If you reduce her defense to 4, then she's a sitting duck on that lava tile and useless. I mean her defense can be tough to break through at times, but it only takes a couple bad rolls for her to go down with only 4 lives. I mean, how long would GL's last if they didn't have Shields?

If her cost were raised to 200-220, then she wouldn't get drafted except in very specific army builds and maybe even on very specific maps like Martian Warzone.

The thing that helps keep her in check somewhat too is that she can't attack when placing that tile. So unless she's in a Prof X army, how often can you waste an OM just to place a tile.

Also, opponent's can counter draft with Lava Resistant units. Right now we have Colossus with his Steel Skin, Absorbing Man (if not power absorbed) and Johnny Storm, but I'm sure there will be more.

While we tested Jean and Mags on lava maps, we didn't only test them there.

[IAmBatman]

Yep. I think that putting her on an already lava heavy map with at least one other figure that can move opponent's figures around is the worst case scenario for her. And she still went 1-1 in those army tests.

[Hahma]

Yeah, I mean Jean was great. She could have just as easily failed all her Throw attempts and that game could have been closer or even a lose for X-Men team.

She lost both army tests I did, and 2 - 1 for Tickle. That doesn't seem overpowering. I can see certain combinations with her and others being really good, but then again she will just get a target put on her head early. With having to use OM's to get those lava tiles out there (unless with Prof X) for an opponent to take advantage of those nasty combinations, they are going to have to use a lot of OM's on her early in a game and sacrifice attacks since she can't attack when placing the lava. So while there can be nasty combinations with her, it's not like it's a slam dunk to pull off as the opponent might have something to say and do about it. And again, there can be more figures that can counter lava by being Lava Resistant.

Edit: Also, when using the Optional Molten Lava rules, molten lava, while still deadly for sure, becomes much less of an insta-kill.

[IAmBatman]

Yep - she's definitely a reason for those alternative molten lava rules being the recommended C3G way to play lava.
Also, she still has her counters. Large and huge figures that can't be moved by all those movement powers and Blob can all pretty much ignore what she brings to the table with lava. And other throwers can abuse the lava she puts down as well.

[Hahma]

:word:

Just another reason Supers and Valhalla aren't compatible. Supers should have a better chance vs. Lava.

[IAmBatman]

Of course they should - they cost more! :-P

[SirGalahad]

Playtest from marroking1

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (Magma)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
No so sure I like eruption. It's a little powerful

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: If you Can't Take The Heat
Units: Magma-Vs-Blob.
Results: Magma 4 life left.
.

TEST 2
Map: If you Can't Take The Heat .
Units:Magma-Vs-Daredevil
Results: Daredevil 4 life left
.

TEST 3
Map: If You Can't Take The Heat
Units: .Magma-Vs-Electra
Results:Electra 2 life Left.

TEST 4
Map: .If You Can't Take The Heat
Units:.Magma-Vs-Su-Bak-Na
.Results:Magma 1 life left.

TEST 5
Map:If You Can't Take The Heat
Units: Magma-Vs-Sonlen
Results: Sonlen 2 life left.
_____________________________________________________________

- Squad / Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass
Map:If You Can't Take The Heat
Units:Magma-Vs-3xStingers

Spoiler Alert!
R1-Stingers
Magma moves and spits out a lava tile and moves onto it next turn killing 1 stinger.
The retaliate by inflicting 2 wounds on her.
R2-Magma
Magma stays put and kills another Stinger.
The Again from height shot her down.
Note to Self: Never use Magma Againt Squad.

_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. PASS
Map:If You Can't Take The Heat.
Units: Army1----------------Army2
Shurrak-160----------------Venom-150
Magma-330----------------Rhogar-260
Moltenclaw-500------------Frost Gaint-400
-----------------------------Krav Maga Agents
Spoiler Alert!
R1-A1
The Krav Maga Agents move onto height and shot Magma inflicting 2 wounds.
R2-A1
Moltenclaw flies into the Agents killing 1. Magma is hit with 1 more wound.
R3-A2
The Krav Maga Agents kill Moltenclaw while Magma flies into the enemies starting zone killing the Frost gaint in 2 turns. 1 Agent dies to lava.
R4-A2
Shurrak Charges at the reamaining Agent killing him but taking 4 wounds in the process.
Venom move closer to him
R5-A2
Venom web swings onto height attacking Shurrak with 7 attack. Kills him.

Thoughts: this army did not work as well as I thought.
_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. PASS
Map:If You Can't Take The Heat.Glyphs:1+Atk,1+Def
Units: Army1---------------Army2
3xObsidain Guards--------3xDeath Stalkers
Magma--------------------Brandis Skyhunter
Marcu ---------------------Evar Scarcarver

Spoiler Alert!
R1-A2
The Death Stalkers get in the starting zone on the second turn killing 3 Obsidain Guards. losing only 2 Stalkers.
R2-A1
3 More Obsidain Gaurds fall to the wrath of the Stalkers. The last squad manages to kill 1 Death Stalker.
R3-A1
The Obsidain Guards mange to hold there defence +1 glyph defending and killing 3 Death Stalkers while only losing 1 Obsidain.
Thought 2 Death Stalkers got into the starting and failed to do any wounds to anyone.
R4-A2
Brandis Skyhunter comes out of the starting zone and kills 2 Obsidains leaving the Defence +1 glyph open. Magma kills the 2 Death Stalkers in the Starting zone.
R5-A2
Brandis Skyhunter shots Magma from height inflicting 2 wounds. But Brandis had an unexspeting wiff which lead to his end.
R6-A2
Evar attacks with 2 dice dealing 1 wound then Magma inflicts 2 wounds which was her doom.
R7-A1
Marcu Turns on army 1 and flies into the Molten lava.


I've asked for summary thoughts and point value recommendation, but I think marroking1 is new to this process.

[SirGalahad]

Front page updated with playtest links, synergies, and character bio.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah ... I didn't get too much out of that test, especially with all the Valhalla units involved and the lack of summaries for what was left at the end of the army tests.
The only thing I really got much out of there was the heavy hitter tests, and she seemed about 170 from those.
We should probably ask Scapemage to go ahead and do the third playtest here.

[SirGalahad]

Already asked him.

[IAmBatman]

Cool. :-) I posted a request as well in the playtesting thread.

[SirGalahad]

scapemage's test sheet:

Here you go. Sorry for the inconvienence.

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Magma

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass. They’d shoot lava at each other, but they protect themselves from the other’s attacks.

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass.

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass.

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass. She’s like the Obsidian Guard’s hero.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass. How isn’t spawning lava fun?

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass. Normal molten lava rules would be a pain, but with the C3G ones, it’s not a problem.

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass. Especially on a lava map. If she didn’t have Eruption, she’d stink on any other map though.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass. On a lava map, everything’s very useful. Even when she isn’t on a lava map, she can use her powers together to create a threat.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass. An upgrade from the underused Obsidians, her tactics improve the strategy of lava maps.

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass. Right now, I'm looking at 175 points.
Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Magma Vs. Huntress
Win: Magma w/ 3 wounds. Crossbow and Lava Projectile were the main attack methods here. A strategically placed molten lava tile disabled Huntress’s Crossbow bonus temporarily, allowing magma to jump up and kill huntress with Lava Projectile. Round 1, Turn 3.

TEST 2
Map: Fire Isles
Units:Magma Vs. Poison Ivy
Win: Magma w/ 0 wounds. Poison Ivy retreated behind the ruin after taking three wounds, in an attempt to draw Magma out of the lava. It worked, but Magma got lucky with a 3 skull – 0 shield attack to finish things. Round 2, Turn 1.

TEST 3
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Magma Vs. Beast
Win: Magma w/ 3 wounds. This one was simply lava Projectile against Beast’s normal attack. Beast had height and survived lava field damage, but Magma still one, mostly due to winning initiative in Round 2. Round 2, Turn 1.

TEST 4
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Magma Vs. Jean Grey
Win: Jean Grey w/ 2 wounds. Telekinesis helped Jean a lot. She used it 3 times in a row, all of which successful, dealing one wound in the process and keeping Magma out of the lava, and even into water one time. Magma only got 2 Special Attacks in, using her other move to place a molten lava tile. Round 2, Turn 1.

TEST 5
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Magma Vs. Spider-Man
Win: Spider-man w/ 2 wounds. Another festive melee battle pitting Magma’s Special Attack against Spider-man’s normal attack. Spider-man had height the entire time, but his true savior was Spidey-Sense. Round 3, Turn 1.
_____________________________________________________________

- Squad / Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass. She's showing weakness towards squads. I'm starting to think 165.
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Magma Vs. 3 squads of Stingers
Spoiler Alert!
Win: 6 Stingers in Round 2, Turn 1. It was a very good fight, but Stinger Drain gave the Stingers the advantage they needed.

____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass. She was outnumbered and oculdn't handle it thought. I'd say 160.
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Team 1: Magma, Solomon Grundy, and Shades of Bleakewood x2 Vs. Team 2: Hawkgirl, Green Arrow (Oliver), Shurrak, and Brunak.
Spoiler Alert!

Brunak jumps into the lava, carrying Green Arrow to the map’s highest point. Magma also jumps in the lava, and Green Arrow shoots her down for a wound. 2 Shades engage Green Arrow, wounding him, and a third engages Brunak. Hawkgirl swoops in to save Green Arrow by killing both Shades, courtesy of Hawk Swoop. More Shades move in, re-engaging Green Arrow and this time wounding Brunak. However, both shades engaged with Green Arrow immediately die due to lava field damage. The Shades wound Brunak again, and Hawkgirl kills Grundy. After some missed attacks from both teams, the remaining 2 Shades die from lava field damage. Brunak engages Magma, who misses her attack. Hawkgirl swoops in and kills Magma, leaving Grundy in his grave and winning the game for her team. Round 3, Turn 2.
Win: Team 2: Hawkgirl w/ 0 wounds, Shurrak w/ 0 wounds, Brunak w/ 2 wounds, and Green Arrow (OQ) w/ 1 wound.

_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. Pass. She did great that time. I'm thinking 160-180 overall.
Map: Fire Isles
Units: Team 1: Magma, Pyro, and Sinestro Vs. Team 2: GL Kyle Rayner and G: John Stewart.
Spoiler Alert!

Magma starts the game by jumping into the lava and wounding Kyle with her Special Attack – twice. John gets lucky and kills Magma right off the bat, dealing her 5 wounds. Round 1, Turn 2.

I re-ran this test because Magma died so early.

John begins this time by flying over and wounding Pyro 3 times. Magma flies up onto the sand pillar and plops a molten lava tile on it. Kyle swoops in and deals Magma 2 wounds from a distance. Sinestro comes to the rescue, engaging both lanterns, wounding Kyle. John walks around next to Kyle and wounds Sinestro. Pyro’s Special Attack manages to wound John once and Kyle twice. Sinestro swings hard at Kyle, but John valiantly removes a marker to avoid the attack and wound Thaal. John then swings hard at Sinestro, but he removes a marker to save himself. Kyle fails to block Magma’s Special Attack and falls. Sinestro takes 2 more wounds from John’s normal attack, and John takes a wound from Pyro’s Special Attack. Sinestro removes another marker to save himself once again, and so does John. But Sinestro removes yet another marker to attack again with Force of Fear, and John blocks. Sinestro removes his last marker to save himself once more, and Magma wounds John. John then kills Sinestro and removes his last marker to avoid near death from Magma. John runs from Magma and kills Pyro, but he’s not far enough away and Magma kills the Green Lantern. Round 4, Turn 1.
Win: Team 1: Magma w/ 2 wounds.


Analysis: Magma is a neat unit that brings new strategy to the game on lava maps. With the custom lava rules, she becomes a lot less broken. She performed exceptionally well, even though I never realized she had flying until the last army test. I would say 180 points. I would go higher but she isn’t any better than 180 on a map without lava.

[Griffin]

He did not use the playtest sheet.

Excuse me, I need to go scream into a closet.

[IAmBatman]

That was pretty poorly formatted and I'm not sure I got a lot out of the mixed matches ... still, I'd say 170 from that last test (not 180). I'm feeling 170 overall thus far.

[SirGalahad]

I think 170 is appropriate as well.

[IAmBatman]

Well, we're not waiting on any tests, are we? It's yours to propose. :-)

[SirGalahad]

Just waiting to see if anyone else had comments, but seeing none --

I propose that Magma be moved to Final Editing Phase at 170.

[IAmBatman]

yea, assuming you mean that she'd do so at a cost of 170. :-D

[GreyOwl]

yea

[Hahma]

yea

[A3n]

Yea

[Griffin]

Sure

[A3n]

Cards added to OP preemptively.

Cheers

[whitestuff]

Yea

[SirGalahad]

Cards added to OP preemptively.

Cheers

A3n's on fire!!!

Those look great!

[IAmBatman]

Down to Spidey and Necro ... is anyone proxying for Spidey? I haven't seen him in days ...

[NecroBlade]

Yea

[SirGalahad]

scapemage PM'd me with the newly-formatted test, so I updated that post.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea. She is looking Grrrrreat!!!
http://worldcricketwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tony.jpg

[SirGalahad]

Magma passes to final editing!

Any final tweaks before we send this hottie to On Deck?

[Hahma]

Looks good from what I could see. :)

Cards look awesome as usual. 8)

[IAmBatman]

I thought we'd changed her to placing only 3 Molten Lava tiles after Tickle's test and concerns?

[Hahma]

Oh yeah. I mean we mentioned it, but never heard anything about it from anyone else.

[SirGalahad]

Would it reduce her cost to do so?

I don't think I've ever gotten all 4 of them placed before I couldn't afford any more attack-less turns.

[Hahma]

I don't think it should affect her cost. As I didn't use all four tiles either because she was too busy attacking with usually 2 tiles out or 3 max. Like you said, wasting a turn (w/o Prof X) to drop a tile was fine early in the game, but it's hard to do it later when an attack would be better. I didn't play her with Chronos, but Tickle seems to think that would be a nasty combination as is. I guess the other concern for people would be Prof X, Magneto and Magma, where Prof X could have her drop a tile and Mags could throw people into the lava.

If the tiles were dropped to 3, she would end up being where she was mostly tested at anyway. I don't know if anyone used all 4 tiles anyway. :shrug:

[SirGalahad]

I would be OK with dropping them to 3.

[IAmBatman]

No, I don't think it'd reduce her cost. I'd thought the changes were given to the other playtesters, but since they weren't, and since other testers didn't seem to have Tickle's power level concerns, I guess we're good to roll with what we've got.

Edit: I'm also OK (and probably prefer) dropping her to 3 and keeping everything else, including cost, the same.

[Hahma]

I think it would help alleviate some potential abuse in certain situations as we don't know what future unit combos can make things pretty nasty. Heck, even after she's destroyed in a game, the lava is still there on a map that didn't have lava before, so if nothing else, she could get out early in a game and spearhead the action by getting all her tiles out and attacking. Then when she dies, you can have units follow that can throw figures or place them or whatever and take advantage of the lava tiles still there. Not to mention Knockback rules, though that would apply for both armies.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - basically if people are typically only putting out 3 tiles and she's worth her 170 points, no reason to let her have 4 and potentially have some crazy situations where she puts out all 4 and is worth way more.

[SirGalahad]

Updated the first post to reduce lava tiles to 3.

A3n, could you update the cards?

When that is complete, I propose that Magma be moved to On Deck.

[A3n]

Updated the first post to reduce lava tiles to 3.

A3n, could you update the cards?

When that is complete, I propose that Magma be moved to On Deck.

Updated & PDFs added. Yea

Cheers

[Griffin]

Yea.

[GreyOwl]

yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea.

[Hahma]

yea

[NecroBlade]

Yea

[Griffin]

Waiting on Bats and Whitestuff or about 44 hours. :lol:

[IAmBatman]

yea.

[whitestuff]

Yea

Thanks for the PM SirG. I've got this long to-do list and the heavies are breathing down my neck... ;)

[IAmBatman]

This passes to On Deck!

[Griffin]

I know it's a little late, but not really since she isn't released yet, but the edges of the Magma figure look really choppy like a Super Nintendo character. Can we fix/redo this?

[A3n]

I think something about the translucent figures gives them a hard dark edge when photographed which doesn't convert very well to a pixel format. If the photos came as a larger resolution it wouldn't be such an issue. But I have tidied it up about the best I could.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Much much better now, thanks.

[SirGalahad]

Yes, thank you.

[Balantai]

Should Magma's Special Attack be listed as "Range 6. Attack 5 + Special" since it's modified by figures with the Lava Resistant Special Power?

For Lava Resistant, should it be "...does not have to stop when entering a molten lava space..." instead of "...does not have to stop in molten lava spaces..."?

[Griffin]

Should Magma's Special Attack be listed as "Range 6. Attack 5 + Special" since it's modified by figures with the Lava Resistant Special Power?I am not sure. I could see a case for both directions. GO should be able to answer this one better than me. I don't know if he will see this or not, so maybe a PM to him would be good. :up:

For Lava Resistant, should it be "...does not have to stop when entering a molten lava space..." instead of "...does not have to stop in molten lava spaces..."?
It is taken from Brunak, so it is fine as is. The power has two slight changes on official cards, but we went with the Unique Hero. You could have looked that one up for yourself though.

[GreyOwl]

The rule is: if you can vary the number of dice you roll after you select a target, then you list the numbers individually ("Attack 2, 3, or 4"). If you can't vary the number of dice you roll after you select a target, then it's "Special".

In this case, once you pick a target, you have no choice as to how many dice you roll because they're either Lava Resistant or not - it can't change. So this should be "Attack 5 + Special".

[Balantai]

In this case, once you pick a target, you have no choice as to how many dice you roll because they're either Lava Resistant or not - it can't change. So this should be "Attack 5 + Special".
Thanks for the clarification, GreyOwl. And score one for the gipper. :D

[Griffin]

GO knows his stuff. :up:

[SirGalahad]

The rule is: if you can vary the number of dice you roll after you select a target, then you list the numbers individually ("Attack 2, 3, or 4"). If you can't vary the number of dice you roll after you select a target, then it's "Special".

In this case, once you pick a target, you have no choice as to how many dice you roll because they're either Lava Resistant or not - it can't change. So this should be "Attack 5 + Special".

:confused: We didn't do it that way for Iceman.

[GreyOwl]

Should we update him too?

[IAmBatman]

What was the other power we had that subtracted attack dice against certain things? Because I know there was a whole attack + special/attack - special debate and I want to make sure we're consistent here ...

[tcglkn]

Wasn't it Electro? Cause I asked if it should be - special since he rolled less and Hahma said you guys had discussed that.

[IAmBatman]

I think you're right, yes. So please double check against him, peeps. :-)

[SirGalahad]

Yes, it should be "Attack 5 + Special."

Also, suggested change:

ERUPTION
Start the game with 3 molten lava tiles on this card. After moving and instead of attacking, you may remove a molten lava tile from this card and place it on either the space Magma occupies or any empty land space within 3 clear sight spaces of Magma, if the molten lava tile fits normally onto that space.


This is for consistency with other cards that have marker or glyph powers.

[IAmBatman]

Looks good! :-)

[Balantai]

I have quickly come to the realization that SirG is way better at this than I am. :D

[IAmBatman]

Well he does have "special eyes" for a reason. :-P But I think you both find different types of things and it's nice for you both to be here to take the pressure off each other.

[A3n]

Updates made :up:

Cheers

[SirGalahad]

I have quickly come to the realization that SirG is way better at this than I am. :D

You've caught bunches that I've missed, so no worries.

[Griffin]

"clear sight" needs to be cut from ERUPTION. :? I can't believe I didn't catch this one.

[Good Pig]

Should the special attack be "5 - Special" ?

[Griffin]

It was decided long ago that "X + Special" doesn't mean that you are adding a positive integer, like I once thought too. But rather, that you are adding a special modifier to the base integer/attack number.

[Hahma]

Yeah, it was the Electro card that we figured that one out. I believe I lobbied for the + being "in addition to" the base number, meaning that there were variances to the base number possible, not whether the variances were adding or subtracting dice from the base number.

[A3n]

"clear sight" needs to be cut from ERUPTION. :? I can't believe I didn't catch this one.

:up:

[Griffin]

tcglkn, can you add this mini card to my list?

[Scapemage]

Spoiler Check :up:

[tcglkn]

Definitely one of my favorite designs of the wave. She can make some nasty combinations with Magneto, Jean Grey, Storm or any other figures that can move other figures.

[Good Pig]

I haven't tried her yet because I don't have any lava. I'll have to make some proxy lava tiles soon though. Placing lava tiles on the board is pure deadly. :twisted:

[davidlhsl]

I haven't tried her yet because I don't have any lava. I'll have to make some proxy lava tiles soon though. Placing lava tiles on the board is pure deadly. :twisted:

Red poker chips make excellent proxies for molten lava.

[tcglkn]

I've used Swamp Water when I was using my one lava set in the map.

[IAmBatman]

Yep. The one thing she does is make figures who are powerful around lava potentially powerful on any map. Which is something we have to be thoughtful of when it comes to all future designs.

[Hahma]

Yeah, she can be very interesting to use to maximize other unit's powers when around Lava. But that works for the opponent as well. The opponent will want to get her to place her lava tiles in spaces that they can exploit themselves, or avoid getting near. She only has 3 tiles, so the key is to be thoughtful when placing them so as not to have them all in one part of the map that the opponent can avoid by using long-ranged attacks toward figures in that area.

[MegaSilver]

Shouldn't her Lava Projectiles Special Attack read "Attack 5- Special," since she has to roll two less dice against figures with Lava Resistance? Or is this the case of algebra where you do the equation: 5+(-2)?

Just checking. ;)

[SirGalahad]

We agreed that modifiers can be + (a negative)

[MegaSilver]

We agreed that modifiers can be + (a negative)

Just checking. :up:

[Hahma]

We agreed that modifiers can be + (a negative)

Just checking. :up:

Think of the plus as "in addition to" or "and", to mean that there is a modifier which can be either positive or negative. :)

[Griffin]

I haven't tried her yet because I don't have any lava. I'll have to make some proxy lava tiles soon though. Placing lava tiles on the board is pure deadly. :twisted:

Red poker chips make excellent proxies for molten lava.
Yep. That is what I use too. I buy these cheap plastic poker chips at Walmart for two bucks, and I use the white ones for glyph, the red ones for lava, and the blue ones for.... a surprise. ;)

[Longy418]

Kudos to the artist that did this card. It is most excellent.

[Lord Pyre]

Magma is ridiculous....... :shock:

One turn with Prof. X, Magma throws lava, and Storm throws Sabretooth right in.... :cry:

You guys sure she's balanced? :p

[IAmBatman]

Lava is what it is. Were you using the C3G Lava Rules at least?

[quozl]

Might not be a bad idea to link those rules in the OP.

Something like:

It is recommended to use the C3G Molten Lava Rules when playing with Magma.

[IAmBatman]

I'd rather say it's recommended to play with the C3G Lava rules when playing C3G with Lava ... :-P They're not really rules I even consider "optional" anymore.

[quozl]

I'd rather say it's recommended to play with the C3G Lava rules when playing C3G with Lava ... :-P They're not really rules I even consider "optional" anymore.

True, but when you're playing with Magma, you're always playing with lava!

[IAmBatman]

Yep. Looking for the thread to link it now. I'm just going to link the rules in the OP and let folks make their own determinations. But I'd never play lava again without those rules.

[Griffin]

Magma is ridiculous....... :shock:

One turn with Prof. X, Magma throws lava, and Storm throws Sabretooth right in.... :cry:

You guys sure she's balanced? :p
Combos are often NOT balanced, that is why people flock to them. If a Magma, Storm, Prof X combo (which is really expensive btw) is just as good or balanced as any other 3 figures, we wouldn't be having any discussion on strategy here.

The game however balances itself with having so many counters to powers, figures, army builds, etc. Unless of course you are just drafting armies that don't have synergy, combos, or at least play to each others strengths.

[Lord Pyre]

Yeah, I used the C3G rules, and I was using the Brotherhood, so I had some synergy. :p If my Sabretooth would haev survived, I would have hada chance at winning... :p

[Griffin]

So your victory/loss came down to just one figure? That sounds close.

Looking back, and knowing how you lost, is there anything you could have done to put things back in your favor?

[Lord Pyre]

So your victory/loss came down to just one figure? That sounds close.

Looking back, and knowing how you lost, is there anything you could have done to put things back in your favor?

I had Quicksilver with 1 life left, Destiny at my starting zone, and Sabretooth with like one wound. Most of my brother's figure's were wounded, and I had 2 turns waiting on Sabretooth, with him going to pounce a fig with one life left, hopefully kill it, and do some damage to the others, with plans for the 2nd turn too. But Magma and Storm killed him in one turn. :p

Nah, I most likely would have lost the game regardless, but Sabretooth was my most powerful (Aside from Magneto who had some bad luck early on).

It's just a really cheap one two punch with no easy counter. This was my first game with her, though, so hopefully it's just a gut reaction. I was just already nervous when I heard about a figure that placed lava tiles, with all of C3G's figs that can move opponent's figures.

[tcglkn]

It's just a really cheap one two punch with no easy counter.

Blob, Vision, and a couple of unreleased figures cannot be moved. :shrug:

[Lord Pyre]

It's just a really cheap one two punch with no easy counter.

Blob, Vision, and a couple of unreleased figures cannot be moved. :shrug:

That just means they won't get killed by it. Not really a "counter."

[tcglkn]

Well if they won't get killed by it, they can move up and kill one of the key figure in the combo (Storm or Magma in your case).

[Griffin]

So your victory/loss came down to just one figure? That sounds close.

Looking back, and knowing how you lost, is there anything you could have done to put things back in your favor?

I had Quicksilver with 1 life left, Destiny at my starting zone, and Sabretooth with like one wound. Most of my brother's figure's were wounded, and I had 2 turns waiting on Sabretooth, with him going to pounce a fig with one life left, hopefully kill it, and do some damage to the others, with plans for the 2nd turn too. But Magma and Storm killed him in one turn. :p

Nah, I most likely would have lost the game regardless, but Sabretooth was my most powerful (Aside from Magneto who had some bad luck early on).

It's just a really cheap one two punch with no easy counter. This was my first game with her, though, so hopefully it's just a gut reaction. I was just already nervous when I heard about a figure that placed lava tiles, with all of C3G's figs that can move opponent's figures.And it is because of that line, Magma has many times ended up being a problem for her own team. Because if she puts lava down, I am gonna try to knock back, throw, etc enemy figures in as well.

[Griffin]

It's just a really cheap one two punch with no easy counter.

Blob, Vision, and a couple of unreleased figures cannot be moved. :shrug:

That just means they won't get killed by it. Not really a "counter."
Maybe it isn't a "counter" in that it doesn't turn the combo back on the figures, but it is at least a way to bypass the combo which renders it useless. IMO, that is a counter in a way when your opponent can't get value out of a combo that they paid for because of your army.

[tcglkn]

He had Magneto in his Army, so he should have taken advantage of the Lava by throwing opponent's figures into it.

[IAmBatman]

Well if they won't get killed by it, they can move up and kill one of the key figure in the combo (Storm or Magma in your case).

Not to mention all of the figures with Lava Resistance that fall into this category.

And the figures with long threat ranges and powerful attacks that can take her out before she can orchestrate this.

And the figures who can remove Order Markers from her or Professor X before they can orchestrate this.

And the figures who are too big to be moved.

And Jean Grey, who can stop her allies from being moved if she hits her D20 roll (potentially enhanced by Destiny in an Outcast build).

[Lord Pyre]

He had Magneto in his Army, so he should have taken advantage of the Lava by throwing opponent's figures into it.

He was dead before the lava hit the field. :p

I know there are lots of ways to get around it, but insta-kills are still crazy. I know C3G has taken the stance of eliminating them except in certain cases, and then Magma throw's lots of potential insta-kills for fairly inexpensive.
I've just gotta play more games, like I said, just one game and just a gut instinct.

[IAmBatman]

We put a unit with insta-kill capability in our Master Set. We've definitely not sought to eliminate instant kills or the fun involved with them from the game at all. Just to make sure it's balanced and fun when it is included.