The Greek Mythology Customs Thread

[Killer Lawnmower]

Welcome to the new Greek Mythology Customs Thread!

Our Goals:
-To create balanced customs based on events and characters from ancient Greek Mythology that can be used in a competative setting.
-Have fun!!

Format:
-We will release new "waves" based on the customs we create with the same requirements and format as the waves released by Hasbro/WotC.
-There will be a group of 4-6 members who review the nominated customs and critique them and catogorize them into the wave they fit in(explained later).
-Anyone can submit their Greek Mythology customs as long as they are accurate to there description from myths(Flame Gryphon can critique that for the most part).

Waves:
-Waves will have have a title based on a time period or event from greek mythology(ex. Trojan War).
-Each wave will have approx. 5 unique heroes, 3-5 squads, and maybe some common/uncommon heroes.

Process:
-A member creates a custom and playtests at least once and makes a few major changes, depending on how good it was originally.
-That member submits their custom here.
-The committee members review, playtest, and change the card as needed.
-A minimum of 8 playtests is required before the card is passed. There must be at least 1 playtest from 4 different players. 2 of those players must be on the committee.
-The card is passed by a vote of 4+(of 6)and categorized into which wave it will be a part of.
-Someone(FG) will find minis and make the card.

Committee:
1. Killer Lawnmower
2. Flame Gryphon
3. killercactus
4. Killz
5. CapnRedChops

Master Set:
Terrain-wise: MS 1 requirements
Figures:
2x common squad A (3 figs);
2x common squad B (3 figs);
unique squad A (2-3 figs);
unique squad B (2-3 figs);
8x unique heroes;
2x Uncommon monster A;
2x uncommon monster B.


Wave 1: Labors of Heracles
Lernean Hydra-Flame Gryphon
Heracles
Stymphalian Birds (Squad)
Nemean Lion
Cerberus
Ceryneian Hind
Erymanthian Boar
Poseidon's Bull
Orthrus
Man-Eating Mares of Diomedes
Hippolyta
Amazons/Amazonian Warriors (Squad)
Geryon
Antaeus

Units being Reviewed:
Lernean Hydra-Flame Gryphon

Units Passed:
Sirens -- CapnRedChops

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad336/FlameGryphon_2010/Sirens.jpg

[killercactus]

More Wave ideas:

The Odyssey
The Quest for the Golden Fleece (or the Argonauts)

Perseus' Heroics
Theseus' Heroics

These 2 may be able to be combined into a Wave. I can't remember much of what Perseus did except kill Medusa. With Theseus though there's the Minotaur and the whole Labyrinth thing (which even leads into Deadalus and Icarus), and he goes into the underworld and gets stuck on that chair.

Oedipus Rex
The Labors of Heracles (probably a good Master Set - lots of stuff here)
Bellerophon and the Chimaera

[Karat]

You can count me in, and perhaps a good wave or possibly even master set could be themed around the labyrinth

You have a typo above, instead of are committee it should be our committee;)

[Mnygaard]

Oh, man - you have no idea how much this warms my heart! I'm a big fan of Greek mythology. So big, in fact, that I wrote an entire RPG setting based around it (see sig).
I'd love to participate in the work, especially if you want some background blurbs or biographies. I'm not the greatest strategist or system smith, but I'll see if I can't make a few customs anyhow.

Magnus

[Flame Gryphon]

I suggest we do the Labors of Heracles. We need to start somewhere, and this is a story most, if not all, would recognize.

[Killz]

Count me in!
Would we do large expansion terrain packs, as in:
Labyrinth of the Minotaur?

[Flame Gryphon]

Count me in!
Would we do large expansion terrain packs, as in:
Labyrinth of the Minotaur?

I think that would be interesting, but it would have to use things almost all people can buy at stores, such as the columns by Grishnakh.

[Killer Lawnmower]

Ok, sounds like there's a lot of ideas. How about we start out with a basic MS with a bunch of characters that don't fit perfectly into an event. Maybe 12-16 units?? Then we could have 1-2 large expansions and 3-6 waves depending on how fast we run out of ideas.

We would then need to figure out what terrain is used in the larger sets. I would say rock tiles and maybe some dungeon...

Edit:
Also, if you would like to be on the main playtesting committee, send me a PM and just give a quick explanation of why you would like to be on it...I wont pick right away. I'll wait till more people find this.

Again, if anyone could write a blog about this, please do.

[Flame Gryphon]

Ok, sounds like there's a lot of ideas. How about we start out with a basic MS with a bunch of characters that don't fit perfectly into an event. Maybe 12-16 units?? Then we could have 1-2 large expansions and 3-6 waves depending on how fast we run out of ideas.

We would then need to figure out what terrain is used in the larger sets. I would say rock tiles and maybe some dungeon...

Maybe, but I think the master set needs to be a basics of Mythology sort of thing, a story everyone would recognize. Or maybe one that has characters from different myths to reach a wider audience?

EDIT: Also, I was hoping we could have this be Mythology in general, and have a Norse, Egyptian, Celtic, and Greek Master Sets as a starting goal.

EDIT 2: I think we should have a C3G approach, and have each of these for each card;

1. Figure, Master Card
2. Art, Master Card
3. Figure, Basic Card
4. Art, Basic Card

Also, we need someone to do the cards, although I think the only card done yet, (Sirens) I did.
Oh, and we need Book of the Sirens, after we address the card issue.

EDIT 3: And Slavic, and Native American....

[Killer Lawnmower]

So you want to include other myths from other cultures as well...We'll see.

I agree with the card thing. Are you able to make them??

And I guess the main thing is, we dont really need a MS or terrain expansions, just Large Fig expansions and waves because we really just want to create new units...:shrug:

[Flame Gryphon]

So you want to include other myths from other cultures as well...We'll see.
Just an idea, because Greek is going to run out eventually.

I agree with the card thing. Are you able to make them??
Yes. All of the ones I stated.

And I guess the main thing is, we dont really need a MS or terrain expansions, just Large Fig expansions and waves because we really just want to create new units...:shrug:
Okey-Doke

Responses in green.

[Killz]

I agree completely, sounds like an awesome idea, going into other mythology. And I could also help with making the cards art as well.

Ok, sounds like there's a lot of ideas. How about we start out with a basic MS with a bunch of characters that don't fit perfectly into an event. Maybe 12-16 units?? Then we could have 1-2 large expansions and 3-6 waves depending on how fast we run out of ideas.

We would then need to figure out what terrain is used in the larger sets. I would say rock tiles and maybe some dungeon...

Maybe, but I think the master set needs to be a basics of Mythology sort of thing, a story everyone would recognize. Or maybe one that has characters from different myths to reach a wider audience?

EDIT: Also, I was hoping we could have this be Mythology in general, and have a Norse, Egyptian, Celtic, and Greek Master Sets as a starting goal.

EDIT 2: I think we should have a C3G approach, and have each of these for each card;

1. Figure, Master Card
2. Art, Master Card
3. Figure, Basic Card
4. Art, Basic Card

Also, we need someone to do the cards, although I think the only card done yet, (Sirens) I did.
Oh, and we need Book of the Sirens, after we address the card issue.

EDIT 3: And Slavic, and Native American....

[Flame Gryphon]

I agree completely, sounds like an awesome idea, going into other mythology. And I could also help with making the cards art as well.

Ok, sounds like there's a lot of ideas. How about we start out with a basic MS with a bunch of characters that don't fit perfectly into an event. Maybe 12-16 units?? Then we could have 1-2 large expansions and 3-6 waves depending on how fast we run out of ideas.

We would then need to figure out what terrain is used in the larger sets. I would say rock tiles and maybe some dungeon...

Maybe, but I think the master set needs to be a basics of Mythology sort of thing, a story everyone would recognize. Or maybe one that has characters from different myths to reach a wider audience?

EDIT: Also, I was hoping we could have this be Mythology in general, and have a Norse, Egyptian, Celtic, and Greek Master Sets as a starting goal.

EDIT 2: I think we should have a C3G approach, and have each of these for each card;

1. Figure, Master Card
2. Art, Master Card
3. Figure, Basic Card
4. Art, Basic Card

Also, we need someone to do the cards, although I think the only card done yet, (Sirens) I did.
Oh, and we need Book of the Sirens, after we address the card issue.

EDIT 3: And Slavic, and Native American....

Well, actually, the art would be ancient art, such as pictures of these characters from vases and such, not actually making them.

Also, do we want the backgrounds to be general-based, or unique to each character?

[Killer Lawnmower]

Also, FG, can you change the Siren card so it follows a Valkyrie General. Also, what sort of expansion would they fit into?

Edit: Backrounds dont matter, just make it compattable with 'Scape.

[Flame Gryphon]

Also, FG, can you change the Siren card so it follows a Valkyrie General. Also, what sort of expansion would they fit into?

Edit: Backrounds dont matter, just make it compattable with 'Scape.

Oh....So we're abandoning the god generals?:(

[Killer Lawnmower]

Well, I want this to work with Classic scape as much as it can. I hoped it wouldnt be that big of a deal.

[Flame Gryphon]

Well, I want this to work with Classic scape as much as it can. I hoped it wouldnt be that big of a deal.

Well, I just feel Greek Mythology wouldn't be the same without the gods and goddesses, and I would prefer to keep them, personally.

[killercactus]

Well, I want this to work with Classic scape as much as it can. I hoped it wouldnt be that big of a deal.

Well, I just feel Greek Mythology wouldn't be the same without the gods and goddesses, and I would prefer to keep them, personally.

Gods and Goddesses have to be represented somehow. If they aren't generals, then they should either by Power Glyphs or actual figures (that are really, really expensive or powered down versions with Viking Spirit-type powers for when they leave the battle).

[Killer Lawnmower]

Well, I want this to work with Classic scape as much as it can. I hoped it wouldnt be that big of a deal.

Well, I just feel Greek Mythology wouldn't be the same without the gods and goddesses, and I would prefer to keep them, personally.

Gods and Goddesses have to be represented somehow. If they aren't generals, then they should either by Power Glyphs or actual figures (that are really, really expensive or powered down versions with Viking Spirit-type powers for when they leave the battle).

I think they should be represted some way other than generals. Sorry, that's just my opinion. We could have them be like 300 point characters in the Master Set maybe??

[killercactus]

Well, I want this to work with Classic scape as much as it can. I hoped it wouldnt be that big of a deal.

Well, I just feel Greek Mythology wouldn't be the same without the gods and goddesses, and I would prefer to keep them, personally.

Gods and Goddesses have to be represented somehow. If they aren't generals, then they should either by Power Glyphs or actual figures (that are really, really expensive or powered down versions with Viking Spirit-type powers for when they leave the battle).

I think they should be represted some way other than generals. Sorry, that's just my opinion. We could have them be like 300 point characters in the Master Set maybe??

I don't think that's high enough. MAYBE we could fit them in around 500 points or so. If you check the C3G, Thor is at something like 470, and he's basically a weakened Zeus.

[Killer Lawnmower]

Well, I want this to work with Classic scape as much as it can. I hoped it wouldnt be that big of a deal.

Well, I just feel Greek Mythology wouldn't be the same without the gods and goddesses, and I would prefer to keep them, personally.

Gods and Goddesses have to be represented somehow. If they aren't generals, then they should either by Power Glyphs or actual figures (that are really, really expensive or powered down versions with Viking Spirit-type powers for when they leave the battle).

I think they should be represted some way other than generals. Sorry, that's just my opinion. We could have them be like 300 point characters in the Master Set maybe??

I don't think that's high enough. MAYBE we could fit them in around 500 points or so. If you check the C3G, Thor is at something like 470, and he's basically a weakened Zeus.

I was just spitballin there. They wouldn't have to be really really really strong, we'll see what we come up with.

Also, we need 3 more members for the committee. PM if interested!!

[Flame Gryphon]

Should we have a vote on how the gods and goddesses are represented?

[killercactus]

Should we have a vote on how the gods and goddesses are represented?

If we do, my vote is to make them expensive unique heroes with no Valkyrie alignment and have them each have a Spirit-type power.

I'd be happy with them as generals or glyphs too, but something about putting Ares or Aphrodite in my army sounds awesome.

[Killz]

Hey, we could do gods in a sort of summoner way. For instance, and oracle of Zeus could have a move where you have Zeus in your army, only for this round. He would have certain stats, and abilities. It would kind of be like the new Revival glyph ( The one where you take a turn with a fallen hero, but he has no abilities), except you could use all his abilities. Order markers placed on the Oracle could be used to take a turn with the god. How"s that sound?
Just my :2cents:
~Killz

[CapnRedChops]

Hey, we could do gods in a sort of summoner way. For instance, and oracle of Zeus could have a move where you have Zeus in your army, only for this round. He would have certain stats, and abilities. It would kind of be like the new Revival glyph ( The one where you take a turn with a fallen hero, but he has no abilities), except you could use all his abilities. Order markers placed on the Oracle could be used to take a turn with the god. How"s that sound?
Just my :2cents:
~Killz

This sounds best of all the new ideas, but why throw away what we discussed and agreed on previously?

The Gods were generals, recruiting, directing, rewarding, punishing, struggling with other Gods using mortals... having them as generals is the best fit.

Sirens could be in the Odysseus expansion, or in the MS - the MS could have a range of GM units in it, like MS1 has a range or eras.

First things first! What do we want the strucure if the MS to be?

I'm thinking 2x common squad A (3 figs); 2x common squad B (3 figs); unique squad A (2-3 figs); unique squad B (2-3 figs); 8x unique heroes; 2x Uncommon monster A; 2x uncommon monster B.

And I'm in on the committee.

CRC

[CapnRedChops]

As for terrain - I say we use the MS1 terrain list for convenience. People can just use MS1 terrain, easy, no muss no fuss. The ruins are good too.

I would add 8x Grishnakh's columns: easy to make, thematic, and the wedding cake columns come in packs of 8. I call them height 10.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=154579&postcount=144

GRASS:
6 24-hex
5 7-hex
5 3-hex
5 2-hex
16 1-hex

ROCK:
2 24-hex
3 7-hex
3 3-hex
3 2-hex
6 1-hex

SAND:
2 7-hex
2 3-hex
2 2-hex
4 1-hex

WATER:
21 1-hex

RUINS:
1 large
1 small

LOS BLOCKERS/platforms:
8x Grishnakh's columns (height 10)

CRC

[bumper15]

Hey, we could do gods in a sort of summoner way. For instance, and oracle of Zeus could have a move where you have Zeus in your army, only for this round. He would have certain stats, and abilities. It would kind of be like the new Revival glyph ( The one where you take a turn with a fallen hero, but he has no abilities), except you could use all his abilities. Order markers placed on the Oracle could be used to take a turn with the god. How"s that sound?
Just my :2cents:
~Killz

This sounds best of all the new ideas, but why throw away what we discussed and agreed on previously?

The Gods were generals, recruiting, directing, rewarding, punishing, struggling with other Gods using mortals... having them as generals is the best fit.

Sirens could be in the Odysseus expansion, or in the MS - the MS could have a range of GM units in it, like MS1 has a range or eras.

First things first! What do we want the strucure if the MS to be?

I'm thinking 2x common squad A (3 figs); 2x common squad B (3 figs); unique squad A (2-3 figs); unique squad B (2-3 figs); 8x unique heroes; 2x Uncommon monster A; 2x uncommon monster B.

And I'm in on the committee.

CRC

The bolded part gave me an idea, I have to work out kinks, but maybe give certain heroes powers like if they destroy a figure Zeus grants them a power (employed once per turn) and counter it with a punishment if they fail. The gods always worked through champions.

[Flame Gryphon]

Hey, we could do gods in a sort of summoner way. For instance, and oracle of Zeus could have a move where you have Zeus in your army, only for this round. He would have certain stats, and abilities. It would kind of be like the new Revival glyph ( The one where you take a turn with a fallen hero, but he has no abilities), except you could use all his abilities. Order markers placed on the Oracle could be used to take a turn with the god. How"s that sound?
Just my :2cents:
~Killz

This sounds best of all the new ideas, but why throw away what we discussed and agreed on previously?

The Gods were generals, recruiting, directing, rewarding, punishing, struggling with other Gods using mortals... having them as generals is the best fit.

Sirens could be in the Odysseus expansion, or in the MS - the MS could have a range of GM units in it, like MS1 has a range or eras.

First things first! What do we want the strucure if the MS to be?

I'm thinking 2x common squad A (3 figs); 2x common squad B (3 figs); unique squad A (2-3 figs); unique squad B (2-3 figs); 8x unique heroes; 2x Uncommon monster A; 2x uncommon monster B.

And I'm in on the committee.

CRC

The bolded part gave me an idea, I have to work out kinks, but maybe give certain heroes powers like if they destroy a figure Zeus grants them a power (employed once per turn) and counter it with a punishment if they fail. The gods always worked through champions.

But they were also generally forbidden from interfering directly. Didn't stop them during the Trojan War, but hey.

[bumper15]

I think I've worked it out....

Zeus's Favor
"At the beginning of the game, choose one unique hero in your opponent's army. After declaring an attack on that figure with this figure, you may choose to activate Zeus's favor. If this figure inflicts at least one wound on the other figure, place one "Zeus favor marker" on this card. If the figure inflicts 5 or more wounds place 3 "Zeus favor markers". If he fails to inflict any wound, give this figure two wounds and place one "Zeus punishment marker" on this figure. This may only be used once per game."

Zeus favor marker-May be removed at any time to increase the attack of this figure by two and its defense by one until the end of the round.

Zeus punishment marker- when placed on a figure, that figure immediately receives two wounds. Additionally, your opponent may remove a marker to decrease this hero;s attack and defense by one until the end of the round.

The only problem I see at the moment is how much space it is going to take up on the card.

What do you think??

[Killz]

It's pretty cool. We still have to decide whether we are using generals, or sticking to gods.

[Killer Lawnmower]

Ok. Putting to a vote. How do we incorporate Gods?
1. Glyphs
2. Generals
3. Figures

I vote figures. Those on the committee vote(list updated-still need one more).

Incorporating Gods:
1. Zero votes
2. Two votes
3. One vote

[Flame Gryphon]

I vote generals.

Oh, and I think you meant gods.:D

[killercactus]

I vote generals

[Mnygaard]

Gods through generals
Something like this:

Jandar - Zeus

Utgar - Ares, Eris, Ate, all the other evil gods.

Ullar - Apollon

Einar - Athena

Vydar - Hephaistus or Hades

Aquilla - Artemis

Valkrill - Cronos

[Flame Gryphon]

Gods through generals
Something like this:

Jandar - Zeus

Utgar - Ares, Eris, Ate, all the other evil gods.

Ullar - Apollon

Einar - Athena

Vydar - Hepheastus or Hades

Aquilla - Artemis

Valkrill - Cronos

Kronos/Cronos/Chronos is not a god, and no gods/goddesses are evil.

Also, that excludes several olympians that would be used. For example, Argus would obviousely go under Hera.

[Mnygaard]

Gods through generals
Something like this:

Jandar - Zeus

Utgar - Ares, Eris, Ate, all the other evil gods.

Ullar - Apollon

Einar - Athena

Vydar - Hepheastus or Hades

Aquilla - Artemis

Valkrill - Cronos

Kronos/Cronos/Chronos is not a god, and no gods/goddesses are evil.

Also, that excludes several olympians that would be used. For example, Argus would obviousely go under Hera.

What? Ate? Eris? Hecate? They are evil incarnate. True, no Olympian gods are completely evil, but Ares was not exactly popular (unlike Mars with the Romans).
As for Cronus not being a god... That's new:


THE TITANES were six elder gods (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/../greek-mythology/titans.html) named Kronos (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/TitanKronos.html), Koios (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/TitanKoios.html), Krios (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/TitanKrios.html), Iapetos (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/TitanIapetos.html), Hyperion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/TitanHyperion.html) and Okeanos (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/TitanOkeanos.html), ons of Ouranos (Sky) and Gaia (Earth), who ruled the cosmos before the Olympians came to power.


I'm not suggesting one general = one god, but as themes that support each god. For instance Vydar has many soulborgs and stealthy troops, which goes well with Hephaistus (for the metal parts) and Hades (for the invisible and soul part).

Magnus

[CapnRedChops]

I vote Gods as generals.

CRC

[CapnRedChops]

To get this moving, I propose a vote on the structures I presented earlier.
Feel free to vote no - but if you do, lets discuss it and bed it down.

What do we want the strucure if the MS to be?

Proposed figure numbers:

2x common squad A (3 figs);
2x common squad B (3 figs);
unique squad A (2-3 figs);
unique squad B (2-3 figs);
8x unique heroes;
2x Uncommon monster A;
2x uncommon monster B.

Total 22 - 24 figs.

I propose this structure as a target to work towards. What we actually put in the masterset should be dictated by balance, but I think that this sort of structure would be attractive.

For this to work, we need to design at least:
3 common squads
3 unique squads
10 unique heroes
3 uncommon monsters

and vote on which to include in the MS once they're all designed.

So the first vote (committee only) is:

1) Do you agree with CapnRedChops figure number framework for the MS?

a) Yes.
b) No - I think we need to discuss it more.

I propose the following terrain structure for the GMMS:

The MS1 terrain list for convenience.
People can just use MS1 terrain, easy, no muss no fuss.
The ruins are good too.

I would add 8x Grishnakh's columns: easy to make, thematic, and the wedding cake columns come in packs of 8. I call them height 10.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=144

Unlike the figure numbers structure which is kind of a guide, I'm suggesting we should set this in stone so mapmakers know what they've got to work with.

GRASS:
6 24-hex
5 7-hex
5 3-hex
5 2-hex
16 1-hex

ROCK:
2 24-hex
3 7-hex
3 3-hex
3 2-hex
6 1-hex

SAND:
2 7-hex
2 3-hex
2 2-hex
4 1-hex

WATER:
21 1-hex

RUINS:
1 large
1 small

LOS BLOCKERS/platforms:
8x Grishnakh's columns (height 10)

So the second vote I'm proposing (committee only) is:

2) Do you agree with CapnRedChops terrain structure for the MS?

a) Yes.
b) No - I think we need to discuss it more.

If the 'we need to discuss it more' votes get up in either vote I'm proposing, let's do so within a week.

CRC

[Flame Gryphon]

Titans are not gods/goddesses.

Ares = war
Hecate = magic
Ate = mischief
Eris = Discord

None are evil.

Also, Hepheastus would probably be a Vydar border, with an Utgar background, due to him being god of Fire and Forge.

Also, just in case, Hades is not god of Death. He is the god of the afterlife, and wealth. The god of Death is Thanatos.

Also, I thought we were doing waves, not Master Sets.

[CapnRedChops]

Then vote no and we'll discuss...

CRC

[Flame Gryphon]

No. :D

[Killz]

I vote gods as generals.

[Mnygaard]

Titans are not gods/goddesses.

Ares = war
Hecate = magic
Ate = mischief
Eris = Discord

None are evil.

Also, Hepheastus would probably be a Vydar border, with an Utgar background, due to him being god of Fire and Forge.

Also, just in case, Hades is not god of Death. He is the god of the afterlife, and wealth. The god of Death is Thanatos.

Also, I thought we were doing waves, not Master Sets.

It's not worth discussing in this context (but I still fail to see why Titans are not gods) - and if you don't think Discord, Mischief (which is a mild word for Ate's aspects), (black) Magic, and War are evil phenomena then you are right, they are not evil gods.

I think what you are trying to say is that almost all Greek gods and demi-gods had both good and bad aspects, and things were never completely black & white. And Hades is the best example of that.

Btw - do you know why Hades was considered the god of wealth?

Magnus

[Flame Gryphon]

Titans are not gods/goddesses.

Ares = war
Hecate = magic
Ate = mischief
Eris = Discord

None are evil.

Also, Hepheastus would probably be a Vydar border, with an Utgar background, due to him being god of Fire and Forge.

Also, just in case, Hades is not god of Death. He is the god of the afterlife, and wealth. The god of Death is Thanatos.

Also, I thought we were doing waves, not Master Sets.

It's not worth discussing in this context (but I still fail to see why Titans are not gods) - and if you don't think Discord, Mischief (which is a mild word for Ate's aspects), (black) Magic, and War are evil phenomena then you are right, they are not evil gods.

I think what you are trying to say is that almost all Greek gods and demi-gods had both good and bad aspects, and things were never completely black & white. And Hades is the best example of that.

Btw - do you know why Hades was considered the god of wealth?

Magnus

*Sigh* Hecate is magic, period. Ate is only mischief. Titans are a different species than gods/goddesses. And war has been used for good purposes before.

All gold/jewels are under the earth. Hades is god of the underworld.

[Mnygaard]

(snip)
*Sigh* Hecate is magic, period. Ate is only mischief. Titans are a different species than gods/goddesses. And war has been used for good purposes before.

All gold/jewels are under the earth. Hades is god of the underworld.

@Flame Gryphon
*sigh back* OK, so the Titans are a different type of gods... agreed?
Ate is not just mischief - ATE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/Daimon/Ate.html) The personification of error, delusion, ruin and blind folly. She led men and gods to rash and inconsiderate actions, for which Zeus tossed her by the hair out of heaven.
As for Hecate, her magic is often described as necromancy or witchcraft in the sources I've read, but I don't speak ancient Greek, so I might be interpreting the words wrong.
Ares (i.e. War personified) was viewed negatively by most Greeks - with the notable exception of the Spartans. At least that's how I read the sources. The reason for this might be that most of our sources were written by scholars and philosopher, it might be different if we had more sources from the common people or warlords.

@Everybody Else
Sorry about the threadjack, I'll be quiet now.

[Flame Gryphon]

(snip)
*Sigh* Hecate is magic, period. Ate is only mischief. Titans are a different species than gods/goddesses. And war has been used for good purposes before.

All gold/jewels are under the earth. Hades is god of the underworld.

@Flame Gryphon
*sigh back* OK, so the Titans are a different type of gods... agreed?
Ate is not just mischief - ATE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/Daimon/Ate.html) The personification of error, delusion, ruin and blind folly. She led men and gods to rash and inconsiderate actions, for which Zeus tossed her by the hair out of heaven.
As for Hecate, her magic is often described as necromancy or witchcraft in the sources I've read, but I don't speak ancient Greek, so I might be interpreting the words wrong.
Ares (i.e. War personified) was viewed negatively by most Greeks - with the notable exception of the Spartans. At least that's how I read the sources. The reason for this might be that most of our sources were written by scholars and philosopher, it might be different if we had more sources from the common people or warlords.

@Everybody Else
Sorry about the threadjack, I'll be quiet now.

I don't like that site.;)

[bumper15]

Gods as generals.

[The Deadliest Warrior]

Oooh ooh can I please join?

I am an expert in Greek mythology. Ask me anything to prove my wisdom and I will gladly answer. But I would love to contribute. I've actually made customs already for

*Medusa
*Hercules
*Nemean Lion
*Lernean Hydra
*King Eurystheus
*Theseus
*The Minotaur

But go ahead, ask my any question at all about Greek Mythology and I'll answer it, if only to be able to help out.

[Flame Gryphon]

Oooh ooh can I please join?

I am an expert in Greek mythology. Ask me anything to prove my wisdom and I will gladly answer. But I would love to contribute. I've actually made customs already for

*Medusa
*Hercules
*Nemean Lion
*Lernean Hydra
*King Eurystheus
*Theseus
*The Minotaur

But go ahead, ask my any question at all about Greek Mythology and I'll answer it, if only to be able to help out.

It's not part of an 'entrance exam' or anything. Also, you sort of umm...*cough* Heracles *Cough*;)

[CapnRedChops]

Oooh ooh can I please join?

I am an expert in Greek mythology. Ask me anything to prove my wisdom and I will gladly answer. But I would love to contribute. I've actually made customs already for

*Medusa
*Hercules
*Nemean Lion
*Lernean Hydra
*King Eurystheus
*Theseus
*The Minotaur

But go ahead, ask my any question at all about Greek Mythology and I'll answer it, if only to be able to help out.

It's not part of an 'entrance exam' or anything. Also, you sort of umm...*cough* Heracles *Cough*;)

Seriously, let's drop it with the corrections, and focus on getting some structure to what we're doing.

I don't care what the structure is, but if we don't have one, this is just going to drift into inactivity...

CRC

[Flame Gryphon]

Oooh ooh can I please join?

I am an expert in Greek mythology. Ask me anything to prove my wisdom and I will gladly answer. But I would love to contribute. I've actually made customs already for

*Medusa
*Hercules
*Nemean Lion
*Lernean Hydra
*King Eurystheus
*Theseus
*The Minotaur

But go ahead, ask my any question at all about Greek Mythology and I'll answer it, if only to be able to help out.

It's not part of an 'entrance exam' or anything. Also, you sort of umm...*cough* Heracles *Cough*;)

Seriously, let's drop it with the corrections, and focus on getting some structure to what we're doing.

I don't care what the structure is, but if we don't have one, this is just going to drift into inactivity...

CRC

I already voted, and am currently waiting for everyone else. Meanwhile, I'm just doing my job as Greek Mythology Knowledge-person.:shrug:

Anyways, I think we need to start with the Labors of Heracles, simply because that's the one people know the most about. I'm thinking that we have the following;

Lernean Hydra
Heracles
Stymphalian Birds (Squad)
Nemean Lion
Cerberus
Ceryneian Hind
Erymanthian Boar
Poseidon's Bull
Orthrus
Man-Eating Mares of Diomedes
Hippolyta
Amazons/Amazonian Warriors (Squad)
Geryon
Antaeus

[The Deadliest Warrior]

Oooh ooh can I please join?

I am an expert in Greek mythology. Ask me anything to prove my wisdom and I will gladly answer. But I would love to contribute. I've actually made customs already for

*Medusa
*Hercules
*Nemean Lion
*Lernean Hydra
*King Eurystheus
*Theseus
*The Minotaur

But go ahead, ask my any question at all about Greek Mythology and I'll answer it, if only to be able to help out.

It's not part of an 'entrance exam' or anything. Also, you sort of umm...*cough* Heracles *Cough*;)


That kind of annoyed me. My gods, do we have to go word-for-word, definition-for-defintion? Cut me some slack sir. That is not cool.

P.S. So are you guys gonna let me in or not? :confused:

[Flame Gryphon]

Oooh ooh can I please join?

I am an expert in Greek mythology. Ask me anything to prove my wisdom and I will gladly answer. But I would love to contribute. I've actually made customs already for

*Medusa
*Hercules
*Nemean Lion
*Lernean Hydra
*King Eurystheus
*Theseus
*The Minotaur

But go ahead, ask my any question at all about Greek Mythology and I'll answer it, if only to be able to help out.

It's not part of an 'entrance exam' or anything. Also, you sort of umm...*cough* Heracles *Cough*;)


That kind of annoyed me. My gods, do we have to go word-for-word, definition-for-defintion? Cut me some slack sir. That is not cool.

P.S. So are you guys gonna let me in or not? :confused:

Like I said; we do not have an entrance exam. You are in, good sir.

Also, hercules is just the roman name, so that's why I pointed it out.

[bumper15]

If we do the labors of Heracles, are we going to include the Giants as well?

[Flame Gryphon]

If we do the labors of Heracles, are we going to include the Giants as well?

I'm not sure. However, one of the characters I think should be in there is Antaeus, a giant who draws his strength from the earth. I personally don't think the giants (As in the giant/gods and goddesses war) should be in there, simply because they weren't part of the Labors.

[Killer Lawnmower]

Man am I behind. I was gone since thursday, so I'll try to catch up as soon as I can.

Gods represented as generals recorded.
I like CapnRedChops MS base requirements.
The first wave will most likely be on Labors of Heracles.

[CapnRedChops]

Killer Lawnmower, is our committee finalised?

So the first vote (committee only) is:

1) Do you agree with CapnRedChops figure number framework for the MS?

a) Yes.

b) No - I think we need to discuss it more.


Committee:
1. Killer Lawnmower - Yes
2. Flame Gryphon - No
3. killercactus - Yes
4. Killz - Yes
5. CapnRedChops -Yes



So the second vote I'm proposing (committee only) is:

2) Do you agree with CapnRedChops terrain structure for the MS?

a) Yes.

b) No - I think we need to discuss it more.

Committee:
1. Killer Lawnmower - Yes
2. Flame Gryphon - No
3. killercactus - pass
4. Killz - Yes
5. CapnRedChops -Yes

Just to reiterate - I don't really care what the structure and timeframes are, I just want structure. I don't want to sink my limited time into this and have it stall.

No structure, no timeframes - no CapnRedChops.

CRC

[Killer Lawnmower]

Ya, I think the committee is done. And yes those are my two votes.

So right now, the two projects are:
Wave 1: Labors of Heracles
Basic Master Set


Let us begin!!

[killercactus]

I don't really care about the terrain structure for the master set, as I'm really just concerned with custom figures. So my vote can be a yes or a no I suppose.

The figure number is fine.

[Killz]

I like the terrain structure, and the figure structure.
Are doing a C3G approach to making and play testing?
~Killz

[Killer Lawnmower]

Okay, I think the first page has been totally updated. Now anyone can start designing the units listed under Wave 1: Labors of Heracles and give ideas for characters that will be in the Master Set.

The Sirens could be used in the Master Set.

[Flame Gryphon]

Okay, I think the first page has been totally updated. Now anyone can start designing the units listed under Wave 1: Labors of Heracles and give ideas for characters that will be in the Master Set.

The Sirens could be used in the Master Set.

I have dibs on the Lernean Hydra from last time. I'm willing to give up everything else, but I must. Have. The. Hydra.:twisted:

Lernean Hydra
Poseidon?

Hydra
Unique Hero
Beast
Savage

Life 5
Move 6
Attack 4?
Defense 4

Hydra Heads
When the Lernean Hydra attacks, it may attack eight additional times. For every wound marker on this card, the Lernean Hydra may attack an additional time.

Reach
Like on the Fen Hydra card.

Slither
Like on the Fen Hydra card

Points: ?

Also, I was thinking, and we can have the gods/goddesses as generals, figures, AND glyphs. We'll need them for the giant war, and they did use their powers to help mortals every now and then.

[CapnRedChops]

So the first vote (committee only) is:

1) Do you agree with CapnRedChops figure number framework for the MS?

a) Yes.

b) No - I think we need to discuss it more.


Committee:
1. Killer Lawnmower - Yes
2. Flame Gryphon - No
3. killercactus - Yes
4. Killz - Yes
5. CapnRedChops -Yes

VOTE PASSED



So the second vote I'm proposing (committee only) is:

2) Do you agree with CapnRedChops terrain structure for the MS?

a) Yes.

b) No - I think we need to discuss it more.

Committee:
1. Killer Lawnmower - Yes
2. Flame Gryphon - No
3. killercactus - pass
4. Killz - Yes
5. CapnRedChops -Yes

VOTE PASSED

OK.
So we are focussing on the first wave first?
Why don't we make the Labours of Heracles the Master Set - is there a reason?

Regardless, let's pick a unit and get started by 19/11/10 - finish on that unit and start on another 26/11/10, etc etc (with short time extensions when life happens) - are we happy this?

CRC

[killercactus]

Okay, I think the first page has been totally updated. Now anyone can start designing the units listed under Wave 1: Labors of Heracles and give ideas for characters that will be in the Master Set.

The Sirens could be used in the Master Set.

I have dibs on the Lernean Hydra from last time. I'm willing to give up everything else, but I must. Have. The. Hydra.:twisted:

Lernean Hydra
Poseidon?

Hydra
Unique Hero
Beast
Savage

Life 5
Move 6
Attack 4?
Defense 4

Hydra Heads
When the Lernean Hydra attacks, it may attack eight additional times. For every wound marker on this card, the Lernean Hydra may attack an additional time.

Reach
Like on the Fen Hydra card.

Slither
Like on the Fen Hydra card

Points: ?

Also, I was thinking, and we can have the gods/goddesses as generals, figures, AND glyphs. We'll need them for the giant war, and they did use their powers to help mortals every now and then.

This thing would be really, really expensive. I have an octopus custom that can attack 8 times per turn, but it loses attacks with wounds instead of gaining them, and it's up over 300 Points. I'm guessing this guy is up over 400 easy. Having at least 9 attacks of 4 every OM with no crutch is completely devastating.

I don't know if anyone's claimed the Nemean Lion, but I have a decent idea for it if it's still open.

[Killz]

Okay, I think the first page has been totally updated. Now anyone can start designing the units listed under Wave 1: Labors of Heracles and give ideas for characters that will be in the Master Set.

The Sirens could be used in the Master Set.

I have dibs on the Lernean Hydra from last time. I'm willing to give up everything else, but I must. Have. The. Hydra.:twisted:

Lernean Hydra
Poseidon?

Hydra
Unique Hero
Beast
Savage

Life 5
Move 6
Attack 4?
Defense 4

Hydra Heads
When the Lernean Hydra attacks, it may attack eight additional times. For every wound marker on this card, the Lernean Hydra may attack an additional time.

Reach
Like on the Fen Hydra card.

Slither
Like on the Fen Hydra card

Points: ?

Also, I was thinking, and we can have the gods/goddesses as generals, figures, AND glyphs. We'll need them for the giant war, and they did use their powers to help mortals every now and then.

Eight attacks plus an additional 4! I know this guy is supposed be to beastly, but that seems hard to beat. Like killercactus said,he will be pretty expensive. But he sure invokes images of huge hydra, lashing out at anything that comes its way.

[Flame Gryphon]

Maybe lower the attack? This is a creature that could only be beaten by someone who defeated gods. And said gods/goddesses.

[killercactus]

Maybe lower the attack? This is a creature that could only be beaten by someone who defeated gods. And said gods/goddesses.

I know - I'm not necessarily saying that we want it's points lower. I'm just pointing out that it would have to be really expensive.

If we wanted to make it less powerful but still keep the thematic nature of oen attack per head and sprouting 2 heads for every one cut off, I'd suggest maybe lowering it's Life and Move, and not allowing it to bond with the Arrow Gruts. Maybe something like this?

Lernaean Hydra
Unique Hero - Poseidon
Hydra
Monster
Terrifying / Savage / Relentless
Huge 13

Life: 4
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4
Points: 300

Lernaean Hydra Heads
The Lernaean Hydra may attack up to 9 times. It may also attack 1 additional time for each wound marker on its Army Card.

Reach, Slither

This thing would be a real risk to play at 300 Points, but I can't justify making something that rolls a minimum of 36 attack dice per turn any cheaper.

[Flame Gryphon]

Maybe lower the attack? This is a creature that could only be beaten by someone who defeated gods. And said gods/goddesses.

I know - I'm not necessarily saying that we want it's points lower. I'm just pointing out that it would have to be really expensive.

If we wanted to make it less powerful but still keep the thematic nature of oen attack per head and sprouting 2 heads for every one cut off, I'd suggest maybe lowering it's Life and Move, and not allowing it to bond with the Arrow Gruts. Maybe something like this?

Lernaean Hydra
Unique Hero - Poseidon
Hydra
Monster
Terrifying / Savage / Relentless
Huge 13

Life: 4
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4
Points: 300

Lernaean Hydra Heads
The Lernaean Hydra may attack up to 9 times. It may also attack 1 additional time for each wound marker on its Army Card.

Reach, Slither

This thing would be a real risk to play at 300 Points, but I can't justify making something that rolls a minimum of 36 attack dice per turn any cheaper.

I would be okay with that.

[CapnRedChops]

I'd say make it more expensive. Make it the centre of a scenario. No one would take that damn thing on alone. Maybe up it's life to 6?

Also, definitely lower the attack to 3. With that many attacks it won't need attack 4 to do damage.

You'd have to give it a power that says it can't attack any one figure more than twice? three times? a turn. If this thing just beat on any one hero non stop, they'd be dead in a turn.

CRC

[Flame Gryphon]

I'd say make it more expensive. Make it the centre of a scenario. No one would take that damn thing on alone. Maybe up it's life to 6?

Also, definitely lower the attack to 3. With that many attacks it won't need attack 4 to do damage.

You'd have to give it a power that says it can't attack any one figure more than twice? three times? a turn. If this thing just beat on any one hero non stop, they'd be dead in a turn.

CRC

Maybe an ability that every time it attacks the same hero after three times it loses an attack dice for that roll? Also, I disagree with the scenario only aspect of it.

[Killer Lawnmower]

I think its attack should be 3, with 5 lives. And I think it should be only able to attack 5-7 times.

Or, we could go vice versa,Krug style, where it starts off with only one attack, and 7-8 lives, and for each wound it has it can attack one additional time??

[Flame Gryphon]

I think its attack should be 3, with 5 lives. And I think it should be only able to attack 5-7 times.

Or, we could go vice versa,Krug style, where it starts off with only one attack, and 7-8 lives, and for each wound it has it can attack one additional time??

The Fen Hydra has four heads, and can attack four times.
Lernean Hydra has nine heads, and should attack nine times.

Fen Hydra does not regrow heads.
Lernean Hydra does.

Two heads grow every time one is chopped off, which translates into an extra attack.

[Killer Lawnmower]

I think its attack should be 3, with 5 lives. And I think it should be only able to attack 5-7 times.

Or, we could go vice versa,Krug style, where it starts off with only one attack, and 7-8 lives, and for each wound it has it can attack one additional time??

The Fen Hydra has four heads, and can attack four times.
Lernean Hydra has nine heads, and should attack nine times.

Fen Hydra does not regrow heads.
Lernean Hydra does.

Two heads grow every time one is chopped off, which translates into an extra attack.

Dang. Maybe a reduced attack. 3 should be the absolute highest if it can attack 9 times. Thats 27 dice right there. Or it could start at two and when it reaches half life give it another attack.

[CapnRedChops]

I think its attack should be 3, with 5 lives. And I think it should be only able to attack 5-7 times.

Or, we could go vice versa,Krug style, where it starts off with only one attack, and 7-8 lives, and for each wound it has it can attack one additional time??

The Fen Hydra has four heads, and can attack four times.
Lernean Hydra has nine heads, and should attack nine times.

Fen Hydra does not regrow heads.
Lernean Hydra does.

Two heads grow every time one is chopped off, which translates into an extra attack.

...which makes it perfect for a scenario and very dubious for normal play.

CRC

[Flame Gryphon]

I think its attack should be 3, with 5 lives. And I think it should be only able to attack 5-7 times.

Or, we could go vice versa,Krug style, where it starts off with only one attack, and 7-8 lives, and for each wound it has it can attack one additional time??

The Fen Hydra has four heads, and can attack four times.
Lernean Hydra has nine heads, and should attack nine times.

Fen Hydra does not regrow heads.
Lernean Hydra does.

Two heads grow every time one is chopped off, which translates into an extra attack.

...which makes it perfect for a scenario and very dubious for normal play.

CRC

How so? Also, almost all characters will end up being like this, so I don't think we should have any of these be built for a scenario.

[CapnRedChops]

I think its attack should be 3, with 5 lives. And I think it should be only able to attack 5-7 times.

Or, we could go vice versa,Krug style, where it starts off with only one attack, and 7-8 lives, and for each wound it has it can attack one additional time??

The Fen Hydra has four heads, and can attack four times.
Lernean Hydra has nine heads, and should attack nine times.

Fen Hydra does not regrow heads.
Lernean Hydra does.

Two heads grow every time one is chopped off, which translates into an extra attack.

...which makes it perfect for a scenario and very dubious for normal play.

CRC

How so? Also, almost all characters will end up being like this, so I don't think we should have any of these be built for a scenario.

Because it has so many high value attacks a turn!

All I'm saying is that in playtesting, we'll see your creation killing a hero a turn as is.

I'm fine with not making scenario based monsters (although the Greek Myths would suit that) - I'm just saying what you've created suits a scenario more than normal play.


Maybe an ability that every time it attacks the same hero after three times it loses an attack dice for that roll? Also, I disagree with the scenario only aspect of it.

Still too strong. Still would kill a hero a turn.

How about leave it's attack at 4, but every time it attacks a character again, it loses an attack die, down to a minimum of one. (second attack same character = 3 attack; third attack same character = 2 attack; fourth and subsequent attacks same character = 1 attack.

That brings some interesting strategic elements into play. It becomes to the Hydra's advantage to become engaged with multiple opponents. Attackers will need to try and avoid this, but still take it down.

CRC

[Killer Lawnmower]

That's not a bad idea CRC. I think its the best one yet, because it makes it less strong, but still a force, I like it.

[killercactus]

Has anyone tried this hydra 1v1 with the big Marvel heroes? My guess is that any of the marvel guys north of 300 points wins a 1v1 battle.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3x Marro Stingers could take it out.

Rememer guys - 4 move, 2 range, 4 defense. It's not that hard to kill.

[CapnRedChops]

That's a good point about the stingers. It's vunerable to ranged squads willing to sacrifice one member a turn... if they get the chance to attack.

Hmmmm. Maybe I'm wrong about it being insanely strong, but it isn't just a Hero Slayer, it's a Hero Obliterator. Regardless, we'll playtest whatever you settle on FG.

CRC

[Flame Gryphon]

I like your idea Red Chop, but I don't know...the Fen Hydra at that point is stronger than the Lernean Hydra, and I'm not sure I want that...maybe after the second attack? That's right between the two we have right now. In other words, if it attacks the same enemy;

1. 4 Dice
2. 4 Dice
3. 3 Dice
4. 2 Dice
5-9. 1 Dice

[CapnRedChops]

I like your idea Red Chop, but I don't know...the Fen Hydra at that point is stronger than the Lernean Hydra, and I'm not sure I want that...maybe after the second attack? That's right between the two we have right now. In other words, if it attacks the same enemy;

1. 4 Dice
2. 4 Dice
3. 3 Dice
4. 2 Dice
5-9. 1 Dice

Too hard to word, perhaps? Too hard to remember?

Maybe start with 6 Dice, 9 attacks, and drop a die for every attack regardless of whether you're targetting the same figure, stopping at 2 dice?

1. 6 Dice
2. 5 dice
3. 4 dice
4. 3 dice
5 - 9 (and beyond with the extra attack per wound). 2 dice.

It's your call FG, just throw this against the wall to see what sticks...

CRC

[Killz]

I like how he is developing, especially in the area of subtracting dice for lost heads. Only problem I see, it that on a hilly map, 4 move and a double space won;t get it far,a nd he could be dead in the water from some well aimed shots, especially units that he would have a hard time reaching, like Syvarris. If he is going to be 300 points, maybe we should up his move.
Or another idea that seems thematic is to make it when he is on last life, he has 4 attack again.
~Killz

[killercactus]

I like how he is developing, especially in the area of subtracting dice for lost heads. Only problem I see, it that on a hilly map, 4 move and a double space won;t get it far,a nd he could be dead in the water from some well aimed shots, especially units that he would have a hard time reaching, like Syvarris. If he is going to be 300 points, maybe we should up his move.
Or another idea that seems thematic is to make it when he is on last life, he has 4 attack again.
~Killz

If he's going to be 300 Points, I don't think he needs any attack reduction personally (though that's theoryscape talking). The thing is easier to kill than Kaemon Awa is because it's slower and has less range.

We could always give it a weakness to fire-based attacks, too. Just throwing that out there.

[CapnRedChops]

Killz: I think FG is adding attacks per wound, as when one head was lost, another two grew in it's place.

I see what you're saying KC, so here's a big picture question: is this unit too weak to get to most fights, but if it gets there, to strong to be beaten?

CRC

[killercactus]

Killz: I think FG is adding attacks per wound, as when one head was lost, another two grew in it's place.

I see what you're saying KC, so here's a big picture question: is this unit too weak to get to most fights, but if it gets there, to strong to be beaten?

CRC

I think it's very weak against ranged squads, and even very mobile / long-ranged heroes. I think it's very strong against melee stuff (nigh invincible against melee if it has a screen), and very strong against single heroes if it's allowed to engage / get within Reach.

I don't know if that description really fits the Lernaean Hydra (maybe it does...?), but I think that's where it's at right now.

[CapnRedChops]

Killz: I think FG is adding attacks per wound, as when one head was lost, another two grew in it's place.

I see what you're saying KC, so here's a big picture question: is this unit too weak to get to most fights, but if it gets there, to strong to be beaten?

CRC

I think it's very weak against ranged squads, and even very mobile / long-ranged heroes. I think it's very strong against melee stuff (nigh invincible against melee if it has a screen), and very strong against single heroes if it's allowed to engage / get within Reach.

I don't know if that description really fits the Lernaean Hydra (maybe it does...?), but I think that's where it's at right now.

I agree.

I just don't think it will be that fun to play with (if it often dies before seeing combat, and certain armies will slaughter it out of hand) or against (once it get's into combat it's brutal, certain armies will have no answer to it) as is. I could be wrong - maybe these extremes of risk and reward will make an interesting balance - but who would risk around 300 points on an inconsistent unit?

I suggest upping it's survivability (perhaps any two of the following three options: +2 move or +1 defense, or maybe give him 9 lives) and lowering it's attack (perhaps by the "start with 6 Dice, 9 attacks, and drop a die for every attack regardless of whether you're targetting the same figure, stopping at 2 dice" method).

Again, spitballing.

CRC

[Killer Lawnmower]

Or lower its point cost to 250 ish.

[Flame Gryphon]

I don't want it to lower attack if it's attacking different enemies.

[CapnRedChops]

That's cool FG, post up your playtest version and we'll go to it.

CRC

[CapnRedChops]

I'm out. This project is too inactive.

CRC

[Flame Gryphon]

Umm...wow? Can't wait five days? Anyways, I have no idea on point costs, but here's my rough draft;

Lernean Hydra
Poseidon?

Hydra
Unique Hero
Beast
Savage

Life 5
Move 6
Attack 4
Defense 4

Hydra Heads
When the Lernean Hydra attacks, it may attack eight additional times. For every wound marker on this card, the Lernean Hydra may attack an additional time. The Lernean Hydra may not attack a single anemy more than four times.

Reach
Like on the Fen Hydra card.

Slither
Like on the Fen Hydra card

Points: ?

[bumper15]

This may make the Hydra too complicated, but as a way of weakening it could we introduce the fact that fire prevented its heads from growing.

We could use counters to make it easier, like:

Hydra Heads
When Lernean Hydra attacks, it may attack eight additional times. Whenever one or more wounds are inflicted on Lernean Hydra add one counter for every wound inflicted. The Lernean Hydra may attack an additional time for every counter on this card. If Lernean Hydra is inflicted wounds by any special ability that has fire in its name, or any attack or special ability by a figure with fire in its name, do not add any counters for the wounds.

It could also add more strategy to the draft, like if I see my opponent drafting Lernean Hydra I am definitely going to draft Chardris or some FEs.

[mac122]

Just passing through, hope you don't mind a couple comments.

Hydra Heads seems....broken. Up to 13 12 attacks of 4 in a single turn seems way too much.

Also, Wait Then Fire, Cover Fire, Pistol Fire Special Attack, and Rapid Fire would fall under your counter restriction and these have nothing to do with the element of fire.

[bumper15]

Drat!:verymad:

Let's see :ponder:
The only abilities I can see that I would want to use are:
Fire Line
Rain of Flame
Majestic Fires
Burning Breath
Fire Strike
and the Fire Elemental......Can anyone think of any more that involve fire?

If the list stays short, each individual special ability that fits could be listed.

I think I should just drop it.

[bumper15]

I'm posting a playtest I recently conducted for the Lernean Hydra using FG's draft.

The map was relatively flat and the battle was Lernean Hydra vs. Marro Drones x5. I assumed that an all-melee fight would be where it shined most.

Round 1
-The Drones move out from the starting zone.
-Hydra meets them kills five of them in his first attack.
-Drones inflict three wounds on Hydra (2 life, 11 attacks)
-Hydra moves into better position taking one passing swipe (1 life, 12 attacks) Kills three more.
-Marro kill Hydra

7 Drones remained at the end

The biggest problem I saw was that the Hydra never used all of its attacks to take out its enemies, using 8 the first time and 4 the second. This is probably due to the lack of defense from the marros and because I had spread them out a bit. The Hydra however was devastating, both times it killed every marro in its range.

I'm hoping to playtest it some more, incorporating range, hills, and water.
Any thoughts?

[killercactus]

It sounds great to me. That's what I think the Hydra should do - kill everything in it's range except the stoutest of heroes.

[Flame Gryphon]

I'm posting a playtest I recently conducted for the Lernean Hydra using FG's draft.

The map was relatively flat and the battle was Lernean Hydra vs. Marro Drones x5. I assumed that an all-melee fight would be where it shined most.

Round 1
-The Drones move out from the starting zone.
-Hydra meets them kills five of them in his first attack.
-Drones inflict three wounds on Hydra (2 life, 11 attacks)
-Hydra moves into better position taking one passing swipe (1 life, 12 attacks) Kills three more.
-Marro kill Hydra

7 Drones remained at the end

The biggest problem I saw was that the Hydra never used all of its attacks to take out its enemies, using 8 the first time and 4 the second. This is probably due to the lack of defense from the marros and because I had spread them out a bit. The Hydra however was devastating, both times it killed every marro in its range.

I'm hoping to playtest it some more, incorporating range, hills, and water.
Any thoughts?

Sounds great, and thanks for playtesting!

[wolfeman1968]

Drat!:verymad:

Let's see :ponder:
The only abilities I can see that I would want to use are:
Fire Line
Rain of Flame
Majestic Fires
Burning Breath
Fire Strike
and the Fire Elemental......Can anyone think of any more that involve fire?

If the list stays short, each individual special ability that fits could be listed.

I think I should just drop it.

Lava Throw (Obsidian Guard) might fall in that group too.

[bumper15]

Drat!:verymad:

Let's see :ponder:
The only abilities I can see that I would want to use are:
Fire Line
Rain of Flame
Majestic Fires
Burning Breath
Fire Strike
and the Fire Elemental......Can anyone think of any more that involve fire?

If the list stays short, each individual special ability that fits could be listed.

I think I should just drop it.

Lava Throw (Obsidian Guard) might fall in that group too.

I'm a little iffy on Lava Throw since lava is technically not fire, but hot earth. However it would still burn where the heads would grow. I think it would count.

Thanks wolfeman

[killercactus]

I thought about a power to make it somehow weak against Fire, but I think it's too complicated to add to an already complicated character.

[bumper15]

I thought about a power to make it somehow weak against Fire, but I think it's too complicated to add to an already complicated character.

I say you should post it, worst case scenario- its too complicated. However we could always make some tweaks to lessen the complication.

Besides- we need something to give this thread some more life at the moment. Although things have been looking better.

[killercactus]

How about just giving it additional attacks when it's wounded with a normal attack? That sort of incorporates the fire weakness while keeping it simple.

Lernaean Hydra Heads

The Lernaean Hydra may attack nine times. When it receives a wound from a normal attack, place one Head marker on it's army card. It may attack one additional time for each head marker on it's army card.

[bumper15]

I like it, instead of fire its basically any attack that is "stronger" than a regular attack. Like comparing Shotgun Blast to a normal gun shot. It might work.

[Flame Gryphon]

...But then remember Shiori's shuriken throw.

[killercactus]

...But then remember Shiori's shuriken throw.

Yeah - there are all kinds of Special Attacks that shouldn't really thematically stop the Hydra from getting additional heads.

However, I think doing it this way it at least a little thematic, it's definitely simpler, and it keeps with Classic Scape much better than trying to create a new, complicated power that catches all of the "Fire" attacks in it, which will be really hard to do in Heroscape. If this was D&D, it would be easy, but Scape doesn't have a little icon that denotes it's a Fire attack. Heck, you can't even say "all attacks with "Fire" in the title", because DW8K's Rapid Fire Special Attack would still work.

Any way you do it there's going to be loopholes. This way, we keep to Classic scape and it tones this guy down a bit, which I think is necessary. Even with 9 attacks of 4, it's still really super strong.

[Flame Gryphon]

...But then remember Shiori's shuriken throw.

Yeah - there are all kinds of Special Attacks that shouldn't really thematically stop the Hydra from getting additional heads.

However, I think doing it this way it at least a little thematic, it's definitely simpler, and it keeps with Classic Scape much better than trying to create a new, complicated power that catches all of the "Fire" attacks in it, which will be really hard to do in Heroscape. If this was D&D, it would be easy, but Scape doesn't have a little icon that denotes it's a Fire attack. Heck, you can't even say "all attacks with "Fire" in the title", because DW8K's Rapid Fire Special Attack would still work.

Any way you do it there's going to be loopholes. This way, we keep to Classic scape and it tones this guy down a bit, which I think is necessary. Even with 9 attacks of 4, it's still really super strong.

Don't forget he can only attack a single enemy four times, but I'm willing to add this.

[Killz]

Hey, sorry for the inactivity lately, my computer got killed, and finally I am able to use my familys. So I won't be as active.

But the normal attack extra head really seems awesome. And in the playtest he seemed great. I think he is pretty much ready, Great job, FG!:thumbsup:

[Flame Gryphon]

Hey, sorry for the inactivity lately, my computer got killed, and finally I am able to use my familys. So I won't be as active.

But the normal attack extra head really seems awesome. And in the playtest he seemed great. I think he is pretty much ready, Great job, FG!:thumbsup:

:DThanks! But we still need to decide point cost, and we still need to see if everybody else agrees with him.

[bumper15]

Hey, sorry for the inactivity lately, my computer got killed, and finally I am able to use my familys. So I won't be as active.

But the normal attack extra head really seems awesome. And in the playtest he seemed great. I think he is pretty much ready, Great job, FG!:thumbsup:

:DThanks! But we still need to decide point cost, and we still need to see if everybody else agrees with him.

Welcome back!!

For a point cost, I was thinking 200-250. In my tests he performed worse against range, as expected, but he still managed to take out a large portion of them.

Izumi Samurai=the bane of Lernean Hydra

[Killz]

250 seems good. And for the Izumi, he could just stay away and target them with reach, right?

~Killz

[killercactus]

250 seems good. And for the Izumi, he could just stay away and target them with reach, right?

~Killz

Yes - he doesn't really fear Counterstrike all that much with the Reach power.

Sharwin Wildborn can get him no matter where he is, but he has less dice. The real bane of the Lernaean Hydra is range.

[MrWookiee]

Can anyone post ideas?

[Flame Gryphon]

I'm guessing that we just test it at 250.

[Killz]

I'm guessing that we just test it at 250.
Yeah, and if it doesnt work that way, then we can change it.

[Flame Gryphon]

I'm guessing that we just test it at 250.
Yeah, and if it doesnt work that way, then we can change it.

Agreed!

So, I prefer the Star Wars Playtesting sheet, so three heavy hitters, three squads, and one army test, please.:D

[Fedex worker]

Nicely done everyone! I can't believe all this stuff has been happening, I haven't been on in months! Thanks everyone for continuing this idea.

[glacierking]

Could I join Please?

[bumper15]

It is not up for me to decide, but I don't see why not. We have been a bit inactive lately and I think that new hands and ideas could really provide a boost.

[elvenwizard9]

I stumbled across this in the search. Is anyone even contributing to this anymore??? We should have maps for this, too.