The Book of Creeper

[IAmBatman]

I'm undecided. I've heard compelling cases from both sides. For lesser known characters like Swamp Thing and Creeper, though, who've only had one identity and we're likely to only do one version of ever, I do tend to favor the amalgamated approach, though. Which means I'm probably leaning towards the more modern metahuman, despite progressive psychosis clearly being a shout out to his golden age roots.

[johnny139]

Well, think of potential synergies. What kind of powers would only work with Humans? What kind of powers would only with with Metahumans? Which would fit with the Creeper?

If there's ever a de-powerization ray, for example, that takes away Metahuman abilities, should it affect him? Should Alfred be able to operate on him? So on, so forth.

[tcglkn]

Well, think of potential synergies. What kind of powers would only work with Humans? What kind of powers would only with with Metahumans? Which would fit with the Creeper?

If there's ever a de-powerization ray, for example, that takes away Metahuman abilities, should it affect him? Should Alfred be able to operate on him? So on, so forth.

I was thinking that, I'm leaning towards human, but thats only IF we agree we are design with him having the device.

[IAmBatman]

Given the Outsiders connection, I do like Alfred being able to operate on him ... hmm ...

[Lord Pyre]

Well, for what it's worth, I still think that most metahumans should just be humans, anyway. :p

But that's not really helpful... ;)

[tcglkn]

Well, for what it's worth, I still think that most metahumans should just be humans, anyway. :p

But that's not really helpful... ;)

I agree, in my mind a metahuman is just a human.

[johnny139]

I'd vote for Human myself, if only because the modern origin seems a lot... dumber... than the original.

[IAmBatman]

You guys have sold me on going Human here. The Alfred argument was just too good to pass up given that everything else seems a bit uncertain. I change my vote to yea.

[A3n]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

And since A3n is proxy for Spidey, that puts us up to 5 of 8 yeas ... only Griffin, Hahma, and Necro, or 20 hours to go!

[Hahma]

yea

[tcglkn]

So close, I was starting to get worried there. So many little things popping up very last minute. But better now than after release.

[Hahma]

So close, I was starting to get worried there. So many little things popping up very last minute. But better now than after release.

Good thing A3n was able to take care of that with photoshop :D

[Lord Pyre]

So close, I was starting to get worried there. So many little things popping up very last minute. But better now than after release.

Not close enough. My trigger finger's gettin' twitchy ;)

[IAmBatman]

So close, I was starting to get worried there. So many little things popping up very last minute. But better now than after release.

Is that a reference to what I'll forthwith be referring to as the Tickle Pickle Creeper nipple ripple?

[tcglkn]

So close, I was starting to get worried there. So many little things popping up very last minute. But better now than after release.

Is that a reference to what I'll forthwith be referring to as the Tickle Pickle Creeper nipple ripple?

:oops: It is now. :lol:

[Lord Pyre]

So close, I was starting to get worried there. So many little things popping up very last minute. But better now than after release.

Is that a reference to what I'll forthwith be referring to as the Tickle Pickle Creeper nipple ripple?

That's more of a popping out. The popping up happe--- you know what? Never mind ;) :p

[A3n]

:rofl:

[Scapemage]

Have fun with your design pass fight guys. Your lucky, I've got a NHSD event today. Dang you and your proposals Tickle Pickle.

[Griffin]

I vote Nay, long enough for a discussion on the issue that was noticed at the final hour.

[Griffin]

Here is my only point I will make on the issue of him being a Meta-Human:

In DC, Meta-Human is a "species" and a very loose term that defines any human or humanoid that was born with or gained (in any way) a super power.

Now the old creeper was just science sure, but it was revealed that the science used on him was playing on his DNA (meta) to channel a demon to temporarily posses him and give him SUPER POWERS. So whether you go pre or post new Earth, either way, he would be considered what we call today a Meta-Human.

[johnny139]

That's a good point - I mean, I'd say it's nigh-impossible to be a normal human being with Super Strength and the ability to leap, oh, 30 feet in a single bound.

[Lord Pyre]

That's a good point - I mean, I'd say it's nigh-impossible to be a normal human being with Super Strength and the ability to leap, oh, 30 feet in a single bound.

Spiderman and Hulk are humans... :p

[IAmBatman]

That's a good point - I mean, I'd say it's nigh-impossible to be a normal human being with Super Strength and the ability to leap, oh, 30 feet in a single bound.

Spiderman and Hulk are humans... :p

Has C3G done versions of these ... ?
Also, they're Marvel. Metahuman is a DC term, like Mutant is a Marvel term. In DC, you don't call a character that's born with his powers a Mutant like you would in Marvel. So other universe examples are irrelevant anyway.
I'm really fine with him being a Metahuman (probably a tad more thematically accurate) or a Human (c'mon, gotta love that Alfred synergy!).

[GreyOwl]

I thought Metahuman in DC was pretty much equivalent to Mutant in Marvel, i.e., "born with powers"? Is that not the case?

[IAmBatman]

No, it's not. For instance, Flash is a metahuman. A metahuman is basically any human (species) who has super powers, whether being born with them or developing them later.
If Creeper's "powers" are purely the result of a mechanical device in him, he doesn't really have physical superpowers. But if there's more to it than that, if they've affected his DNA, then he's a metahuman.
The problem here is that it's up in the air whether we're designing the former (the Golden Age version) or the latter (the modern version). The progressive psychosis power does seem to fit better with the Golden Age version, but the leaping ability and super strength seem to indicate the modern, metahuman version. Since he's a bit of a character mishmash, it's far from straightforward.

[tcglkn]

Can we have a vote on this?

[IAmBatman]

I don't see why not.

[Lord Pyre]

I was SO ready to nab this at 4:19... :p

But I still think he should be human, for what it's worth.

[johnny139]

One thing worth mentioning is that DC has Metahumans - anyone with super-powers - and Marvel has both Mutants and Mutates. Mutants are born with powers, while Mutates are those that develop them early on. ANYONE in the Marvel Universe with powers, from Hulk to Magneto, would be a Metahuman under DC's definition. However, thusfar we've chosen to ignore Mutate as a species, as the original Marvel set has.

And Wikipedia lists his species as Half-Demon. The only listings I can find that show him as a Metahuman are in Kingdom Come and in the DCAU. Listings of him as pure human seem about nil. So... not sure what to say about that, honestly. :shrug:

[IAmBatman]

Should we be going Half-Demon here?? We're going to have to do that for an eventual Raven anyway ...
We've definitely got a precedent for calling Metahumans Metahumans on the C3G project (see Flash). Mutates though, not so much so far ...

[tcglkn]

Lets have a vote between Human, Metahuman, and Half-Demon (which I am liking just to ignore all synergy)

[Lord Pyre]

Well, can Wikipedia be trusted? If that's the ONLY place he's listed as that, then I'd be wary.

Otherwise half-demon sounds good. But I don't know the character, so...

[IAmBatman]

I'm going with Half Demon.

[johnny139]

My vote is for Metahuman because, personally, I prefer The Creeper as a science experiment gone wrong, not a guy who channels a demon; if we're only making one version of him, I'd rather it be in-tune with the classic style.

And, since a Metahuman is any human with powers... he's a Metahuman by my count.

[GreyOwl]

Well, can Wikipedia be trusted? If that's the ONLY place he's listed as that, then I'd be wary.

Otherwise half-demon sounds good. But I don't know the character, so...

The DC wiki says that he was only recently revealed to be a demon, so maybe that's why other sources don't mention it? Although to confuse matters even more, the DC wiki refers to him as a "demon", not a "half-demon".:?

[johnny139]

Well, can Wikipedia be trusted? If that's the ONLY place he's listed as that, then I'd be wary.

Otherwise half-demon sounds good. But I don't know the character, so...

The DC wiki says that he was only recently revealed to be a demon, so maybe that's why other sources don't mention it? Although to confuse matters even more, the DC wiki refers to him as a "demon", not a "half-demon".:?

Well, Jack Ryder is a human, while the Creeper that he shares his body with (kinda-sorta) is a demon. So he's half-demon.

[Xn F M]

Well, can Wikipedia be trusted? If that's the ONLY place he's listed as that, then I'd be wary.

Otherwise half-demon sounds good. But I don't know the character, so...

The DC wiki says that he was only recently revealed to be a demon, so maybe that's why other sources don't mention it? Although to confuse matters even more, the DC wiki refers to him as a "demon", not a "half-demon".:?

Well, Jack Ryder is a human, while the Creeper that he shares his body with (kinda-sorta) is a demon. So he's half-demon.

I may be butting in where I don't belong, but demon-possessed human =/= half-demon. Half-demon implies demonic heritage. Creeper, as he's been described here, does not fit that description. Based on what you all have said so far, Demon-possessed, and Metahuman sound like the most fitting races.

[GreyOwl]

I would say that a human that is demon possessed is still just a human. But of course, a demon possessed metahuman is just a metahuman, too. :shrug:

[johnny139]

Ah-ha. Major point being that The Creeper and Jack Ryder are two different beings in modern lore, like Jason Blood and Etrigan. Thus, if we're going with the modern version, it should just be "Creeper" without a secret identity and Demon for Species.

Thus, I think going with Metahuman and the classic "insane subject of an experiment" origin would be best, if only to keep things a bit clearer.

[Lord Pyre]

Ah-ha. Major point being that The Creeper and Jack Ryder are two different beings in modern lore, like Jason Blood and Etrigan. Thus, if we're going with the modern version, it should just be "Creeper" without a secret identity and Demon for Species.

Thus, I think going with Metahuman and the classic "insane subject of an experiment" origin would be best, if only to keep things a bit clearer.

After reading everything, my vote (even though it doesn't count :p ) is to metahuman. Sure, Alfred can't operate on him, but it's not a big thing.

It doesn't really even matter much, as humans/metahumans won't ever have many synergies.

But I think you should definitely keep the secret identity.

[tcglkn]

Ah-ha. Major point being that The Creeper and Jack Ryder are two different beings in modern lore, like Jason Blood and Etrigan. Thus, if we're going with the modern version, it should just be "Creeper" without a secret identity and Demon for Species.

Thus, I think going with Metahuman and the classic "insane subject of an experiment" origin would be best, if only to keep things a bit clearer.

After reading everything, my vote (even though it doesn't count :p ) is to metahuman. Sure, Alfred can't operate on him, but it's not a big thing.

It doesn't really even matter much, as humans/metahumans won't ever have many synergies.

But I think you should definitely keep the secret identity.

Everyones opinion matters here.

[Scapemage]

I like Johnny's suggestion best. If not, Metahuman seems appropriate.

[tcglkn]

I'm leaning towards Metahuman. Simply because that seems to be the official choice. Human would be nice because it's not like he is majorly enhanced and changed but Metahuman seems the most accurate.

[IAmBatman]

You guys and Griff have convinced me. I'm changing my vote to Metahuman. Raven has Demon heritage - that's why she's a half Demon. For Etrigan, I'm hoping we just go with Demon.

[Griffin]

I am still on about Meta-human as well. So that seems like a consensus to me.

[tcglkn]

I am still on about Meta-human as well. So that seems like a consensus to me.

Agreed, so some new cards and were good to go. 8)

[IAmBatman]

Just to clarify for A3n here - we need the species updated to Metahuman. Then we should be good to go.

[A3n]

Cards updated.

[IAmBatman]

I'm not sure where that puts this in terms of release - do we have enough votes? Are there any nays still? Has it expired on time? But, be warned, we're planning to revise how public threads are started a bit ... stay tuned.

[Lord Pyre]

I'm not sure where that puts this in terms of release - do we have enough votes? Are there any nays still? Has it expired on time? But, be warned, we're planning to revise how public threads are started a bit ... stay tuned.

Sorry, it's because I'm annoying, isn't it...? :p

[IAmBatman]

We just want to do what we can to best ensure that all C3G designs are of the utmost quality, both those originating in the Inner Sanctum and those originating in the public realm.

[Griffin]

I'm not sure where that puts this in terms of release - do we have enough votes? Are there any nays still? Has it expired on time? But, be warned, we're planning to revise how public threads are started a bit ... stay tuned.

Sorry, it's because I'm annoying, isn't it...? :p
Basically we want to be fair to everyone working in C3G, Allies, Sidekicks, Heroes, and fans. One of the things that we need to start doing is ensure quality by verifying that each LD or potential LD has some strong starting ideas for his or her design.

[Lord Pyre]

I'm not sure where that puts this in terms of release - do we have enough votes? Are there any nays still? Has it expired on time? But, be warned, we're planning to revise how public threads are started a bit ... stay tuned.

Sorry, it's because I'm annoying, isn't it...? :p
Basically we want to be fair to everyone working in C3G, Allies, Sidekicks, Heroes, and fans. One of the things that we need to start doing is ensure quality by verifying that each LD or potential LD has some strong starting ideas for his or her design.

Sorry for the threadjack, but do we all post our top 5 so they can be reviewed before there's an opening? I know I've talked to Bats already about some stuff, but are we all supposed to do it anyway?

I just don't really understand, I guess.

[IAmBatman]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33035 Take that conversation here.

[tcglkn]

I like the new process.

On topic, do we just need Griffindork to switch his stalling nay to a yea?

[IAmBatman]

If he's got an outstanding nay and things have otherwise passed on time or votes, then yes.

[Griffin]

I like the new process.

On topic, do we just need Griffindork to switch his stalling nay to a yea?
I think so... give me one quick second.

[Griffin]

Yea

[Griffin]

Creeper passes into finalization.

LD, Please change the title and front page.

[tcglkn]

Done, is everything in order then?

[IAmBatman]

Looks good! Only other update you should have to do any time soon is putting the PDFs on the first post when they're complete. :-)

[Griffin]

Congrats on a great job as LD. :toast:

[IAmBatman]

:toast:

[tcglkn]

Congrats on a great job as LD. :toast:

:oops: I let a lot slip that I shouldn't have. I should have thought about the species thing long before after I proposed he be released. Although with this design I am officially eligible for Sidekick status now. 8)

[Lord Pyre]

I'm really excited about playing this guy! I love the lower costed guys, make for good Vigilante/criminal scenarios, hehe!

[A3n]

Well I have created the PDFs but I don't have GO's email address anymore since my computer issues, so I have to wait until he emails me.

Cheers

[A3n]

Mini PDF (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_Creeper_mini.pdf).
Comic PDF (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_Creeper_comic.pdf).

Cheers

[SirGalahad]

What were we planning on using for the Insanity Markers?

[tcglkn]

What were we planning on using for the Insanity Markers?

I was thinking some crazy looking smiley face. I forgot about that.

[lefton4ya]

Cool! I had a couple of these with the Garada card I think - now to C3G

BTW, I will be eventually finishing my PDF compilations but not till next week.

[quozl]

What were we planning on using for the Insanity Markers?

I was thinking some crazy looking smiley face. I forgot about that.

The Watchmen symbol would be cool.

[NecroBlade]

What were we planning on using for the Insanity Markers?

I was thinking some crazy looking smiley face. I forgot about that.
This (http://cdn.livevideo.com/image/77/343677/379309_pt.jpg) one's good if it's not too small.

[quozl]

It might be nice to use a different color than green, yellow, or purple since we already use those colors.

[Griffin]

What were we planning on using for the Insanity Markers?

I was thinking some crazy looking smiley face. I forgot about that.

The Watchmen symbol would be cool.
That would be a total theme break IMO. The Watchmen is mostly a stand alone story that doesn't exist in the DC mainstream.

[Griffin]

What were we planning on using for the Insanity Markers?

I was thinking some crazy looking smiley face. I forgot about that.
This (http://cdn.livevideo.com/image/77/343677/379309_pt.jpg) one's good if it's not too small.
That would be awesome, but it probably is too small.

[Griffin]

It might be nice to use a different color than green, yellow, or purple since we already use those colors.
The art team almost always uses colors that are taken directly from the figure, though, that has been a consistent design aesthetic from them. However, markers are a tad different, and so the most "thematically appropriate" graphic and colors are what should be used, without much prejudice to the rest of the card.

Now what is that "thematically appropriate" graphic and colors? I don't know, but I really like Necro's idea.

[johnny139]

I generally prefer the simple decals used so far - Lantern Symbol, magnetic... purple...

Maybe something like, uhh, I can't find a real good particular example, but like, the swirly stuff inside of those old x-ray glasses? Like in THIS (http://www.awesomeoff.com/images/entries2/mainview/xray_glasses.jpg). Or, like, some sort of crazy swirly vortex type thing.

...but maybe that'd be better for Hypnosis Markers or something.

Actually, yeah, I like the smiley face idea... but, no face, just big smiling teeth. Like the cover to THIS (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/joker1.jpg) comic book, only less horrible and nightmarish.

[Griffin]

Yeah, maybe just this smile on a yellow background.

http://bigotherbigother.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/cheshire_cat.jpg

[Karat]

Yeah, maybe just this smile on a yellow background.

http://bigotherbigother.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/cheshire_cat.jpg
i love that idea:thumbsup:

[johnny139]

Or, of course, we could go with the classic Cheshire Cat...

http://emollience.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/cheshire-cat.jpg

If we'd prefer something simpler, of course.

[quozl]

That reminds me of a moon, which "lunatic" comes from. Very appropriate symbol.

[A3n]

What about something like this:
http://creativestudios.com/wp-content/gallery/misc/insanity.jpg

Cheers

[Karat]

What about something like this:
http://creativestudios.com/wp-content/gallery/misc/insanity.jpg

Cheers
it just doesn't seem to fit as well for an insanity marker as the cheshire grin does, for me at least.

i think i may have mispelled it, but you get my meaning.

[Griffin]

What about something like this:
http://creativestudios.com/wp-content/gallery/misc/insanity.jpg

CheersThanks for the next weeks worth of nightmares D!(#. :p

[A3n]

Thanks for the next weeks worth of nightmares D!(#. :p
:rofl: Seriously I was laughing so hard.

[A3n]

The cheshire grin just isn't enough for me. The cheshire cat was the character that had the answers but wouldn't give them up. The mad hatter or the queen were closer to insanity in my books.

But if you want I found a cheshire grin that I would class as closer associated with insanity. (Yeah the grammar in that sentence sucked but I wasn't going to hurt my brain trying to straighten it out :p). Anyway I put it on a cloud background (because I couldn't think of anything else :p):

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Heroscape%20Pics/insaneMarker.jpg

If you like the grin but can think of a better background let me know. (& the colours are easily changed).

Or go with Necro's smiley.

Cheers

[johnny139]

Oh, I like that quite a bit. For a background, though - do we have any colors that aren't likely to be used out of THIS (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1205207#post1205207) batch?

[Hahma]

Looks cool A3n

[A3n]

Oh, I like that quite a bit. For a background, though - do we have any colors that aren't likely to be used out of THIS (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1205207#post1205207) batch?
Brown or Grey :shrug:

[tcglkn]

Oh, I like that quite a bit. For a background, though - do we have any colors that aren't likely to be used out of THIS (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1205207#post1205207) batch?
Brown or Grey :shrug:

I would prefer Grey. Are we going to need to update the card with the Marker color?

[Griffin]

Grey markers would be cool. And A3-D2, your design looks cool to me, but the color scheme currently doesn't fit the character, but I am sure you know that and just threw the graphic together before working much on the colors. Great job. :up:..... so far.

[johnny139]

Maybe have the background grey, with a sort of dull yellow for the swirls?

[A3n]

Here's the grey & yellow johnny suggested - I added some defined yellow lines to it also as I didn't feel there was enough contrast between the yellow & grey.
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Heroscape%20Pics/insaneMarker2.jpg

& here's the colours of Creeper's card:
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Heroscape%20Pics/insaneMarker3.jpg

I definitely prefer the later.

Cheers

[johnny139]

Yeah, I like that - we'd use the orange markers for it, I assume?

[Griffin]

I like the last one too, and orange or brown would be best I think.

[tcglkn]

I like the second one as well. Great work A3n!

[Xn F M]

Just poking in here, but I don't like A3n's suggestion for the insanity markers. To me, it looks like it has too much detail to be really discernible at the appropriate scale. I might change my mind if I saw it at . . . 1/4" x 1/4", but it looks too detailed for a heroscape marker.

BTW, while I like Neco's suggestion, using an established Chaos! Comics character as the insanity marker, is a total theme break.

[IAmBatman]

I like the orange/brown ones. Good stuff, guys. :-)

[A3n]

Cards updated with the markers.

PDFs on the way to GO.

Cheers

[tcglkn]

Awesome work. Like always.

[Lord Pyre]

The comic PDF isn't printing right for me. Right under the "insane", a cm think section of the TOP of the card is printing near the bottom, cutting it in half. I tried twice, both with the same result. :p

[A3n]

The comic PDF isn't printing right for me. Right under the "insane", a cm think section of the TOP of the card is printing near the bottom, cutting it in half. I tried twice, both with the same result. :p
I got nothing. The file looks fine to me. Anybody else tried this card yet?

[Lord Pyre]

The comic PDF isn't printing right for me. Right under the "insane", a cm think section of the TOP of the card is printing near the bottom, cutting it in half. I tried twice, both with the same result. :p
I got nothing. The file looks fine to me. Anybody else tried this card yet?

I'll try again at school tomorrow; I don't want to risk wasting more ink! :p

[Griffin]

Works fine for me. :up:

[Lord Pyre]

The comic PDF isn't printing right for me. Right under the "insane", a cm think section of the TOP of the card is printing near the bottom, cutting it in half. I tried twice, both with the same result. :p
I got nothing. The file looks fine to me. Anybody else tried this card yet?

I'll try again at school tomorrow; I don't want to risk wasting more ink! :p

It worked at school. Must've just been a weird glitch. Something similar happened with Green Goblin. :p

[A3n]

The comic PDF isn't printing right for me. Right under the "insane", a cm think section of the TOP of the card is printing near the bottom, cutting it in half. I tried twice, both with the same result. :p
I got nothing. The file looks fine to me. Anybody else tried this card yet?

I'll try again at school tomorrow; I don't want to risk wasting more ink! :p

It worked at school. Must've just been a weird glitch. Something similar happened with Green Goblin. :p
Glad to hear it works ok.

Cheers

[A3n]

Please see this post (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1301688&postcount=889) about the markers.

EDIT: JPGs & PDFs updated with correctly sized markers.

Cheers

[A3n]

PDFs updated with large markers.

Cheers

[johnny139]

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
As an Insane figure, Creeper is immune to a number of abilities, such as Beast's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27877) Negotiation and Yellow Lantern: Thaal Sinestro's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30301) Force of Fear Special Attack.

[tcglkn]

Updating.

[johnny139]

Insane figures updated with Smilex stuff... I'm planning on COMPLETELY overhauling the Glyph books sooner rather than later.

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:

N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a figure with the Insane personality, Creeper is immune to and can be equipped with the Glyph of Smilex (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28656).Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:

N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a figure with an Insane personlity, Creeper may allow Harley Quinn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30305) to use her Insane Devotion to take a turn.