The Book of The Hired Guns

[Griffin]

The Book of The Hired Guns

C3G MARVEL SUPER SECRET EXCLUSIVE 5
CRIMINAL NETWORK

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_HiredGuns_comic.jpg
Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_HiredGuns_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_HiredGuns_mini.jpg
Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_HiredGuns_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Hypertime set.
Its model number and name are #022-024 / Criminal.
_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - This infamous gang is notorious for its merciless killing sprees. They are often hired by Crime Lords and villainous Masterminds to do their dirty work of being the one to pull the trigger, but just because their job is "dirty", doesn't mean they can't enjoy it.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-

N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:

N/AMarvel:

Trigger Happy allows the Hired Guns to attack instead of a Crime Lord of Mastermind. Current Crime Lords and Masterminds include: Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9710).C3G:

Trigger Happy allows the Hired Guns to attack instead of a Crime Lord of Mastermind. Current Crime Lords and Masterminds include: Baron von Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628), Baron Zemo (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41249), Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312), Hush (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35869), Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547), Mad Hatter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35532), Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847), Penguin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102875), Ra's al Ghul (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36101), Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34730), The Hood (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38192), The Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665), Two-Face (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586), and Ventriloquist (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35410).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional attack die if they are adjacent to Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional die in leaving engagement attacks if they are in clear sight of Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional attack die if they are adjacent to The Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665) and are attacking an adjacent figure that does not have any Order Markers on its Army Card.
As Criminals, Hired Guns can add to their Move with the Ventriloquist (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35410)'s Heist Planner special power.
As a Criminal Squad, Hired Guns may be activated by Kingpin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33766)'s Organized Crime special power.
As Criminals, Hired Guns can add 1 to their Move with Wizard (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39945)'s Criminal Leadership special power.Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:

N/AMarvel:

N/AC3G:

As Humans, Hired Guns allow adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.
As Criminals, Hired Guns may prevent Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547) from being attacked or taking leaving engagement attacks due to his Criminal Deception special power.
As Criminals, Hired Guns may receive wounds instead of Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847) due to her Necessary Sacrifices special power.________________________________________________________________ _

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial Playtest: Griff (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1216263&postcount=13)
Second Playtest: Johnny139 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1225557&postcount=41)
Third Playtest: IAmBatman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1235560&postcount=48)

[Hahma]

So that's why you didn't want that power for Madame HYDRA or was it Baron Von Strucker? :)

Wow, 8 attacks of 3 will be pretty wicked. Plant them next to Black Mask and that's 8 attacks of 4 or adjacent to Cap and get the attack boost along with defense boost. Get them to height and adjacent to BM or Cap and that's even sicker. :D

At least you'd have to have an OM on a Crime Lord or Mastermind, so it wouldn't get silly with bonding. Though these guys will be really nasty with Red Skull as he can maneuver both Heroes and these guys.

They'll also add some help for Lex.

[IAmBatman]

In order for Red Skull to activate these guys, though, he needs to take a turn himself in order to have an attack phase to activate them instead of. :-)
I like everything I see here except the personality. How about Greedy? They're getting paid, after all.

[Hahma]

In order for Red Skull to activate these guys, though, he needs to take a turn himself in order to have an attack phase to activate them instead of. :-)
I like everything I see here except the personality. How about Greedy? They're getting paid, after all.


Yeah, I know. I just meant that if you have OM's on him, you can either take a turn with him and instead of attacking, attack with the Hired Guns or after revealing an OM, you can activate a different Unique Hero. Just a little bit more flexibility for him, that's all. :D


Or if we want to get fancy Avaricious :)

[Griffin]

To the Thesaurus Batman! :)

[Hahma]

Here's some mini pix in different poses for these guys squad photo. :D



http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix032.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix033.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix034.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix035.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix037.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix036.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix038.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix039.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Madame%20Hydra%20Background%20pix/C3Gminipix040.jpg

[Griffin]

Playtest sheet coming up in a few minutes. Thanks Hahma for the pics. :D

[Griffin]

Hourman - Rex Tyler - Unique Hero - DC

[IAmBatman]

Hourman - Rex Tyler - Unique Hero - DC

lol ... too many threads open at once?

[A3n]

Hourman - Rex Tyler - Unique Hero - DC

lol ... too many threads open at once?
:rofl:

[IAmBatman]

Still hoping we change the personality here - just reminding you so it's not lost in the shuffle.

[Griffin]

:oops:


Check the personality now.

[Griffin]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT The Hired Guns

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? YES, at 130

TEST 1
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: - The Hired Guns VS Sinestro Corp Soldier
THG win with 2 men left.

TEST 2
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units:- The Hired Guns VS Penguin
THG win with 2 men left.

TEST 3
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: - The Hired Guns VS Pyro
THG win with 3 men left.

TEST 4
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: - The Hired Guns VS Two Face
THG win with 2 men left.

TEST 5
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: - The Hired Guns VS Harley Quinn
THG win with 1 man left.

_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass? YES, at 130
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: - The Hired Guns VS Cops x2
Cops win with 1 man left. (very close, could have gone either way)
_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES, at 130
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: - Hired Guns, Riddler, Body Guards x6, Street Thugs x2, and Black Mask VS Cyclops, Jean Grey, Angel, and Ice Man
Thugs move out and clash with Jean and Cyclops and Angel, and a squad goes down but Black Mask helped with that, however Jean did take some significant heat, and her throws never worked for her. Riddler riddles Cyclops over, and over, and over, and over, again which just dicouraged the idea of giving Cyclops all the orders. Eventually, the Thugs killed jean, and Angel strugled to rescue Cyclops and Iceman from the approaching Hired Guns being boost by Black Mask, and in that process, Angel too a significant amount of wounds. Once the mutants regrouped, they formed a plan that panned out quite a bit. Angel took Cylops as fast as he could carry him to Riddler by sneaking around the map and past the Hired Guns, and Iceman drew their fire away to help, but he also ended up taking some heat from the Hired Guns. Eventually, Iceman killed the Hired Guns (with Black Masks help), but they did do a LOT of damage to the defensively strong X-men. Ice Man killed the Bodyguards that were surrounding him from Riddler, while Riddler continued to attack the Angel/Cyclops combo to no avail. Cyclops eventually got initiative and with a nice Optic Blast, critically wounded Riddler and killed a couple Bodyguards. Riddler still riddled Cyclops and then killed him personally. Iceman squared off with Riddler and a Bodyguard after Riddler riddled Angel and killed him. Riddler riddled Iceman and caught up with him rather quickly, then the next round, he riddled him again with initiative, and then killed him.

Riddler and 1 Bodyguard wins with 3 wounds on Riddler. (Great fun. Lots of Criminal synergy that isn't all that easy to pull off all the time, but there is enough of it to give you lots of options. Very cool and lots of fun.)
_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES, at 130
Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: - Hired Guns, Doctor Doom (official), Bodyguards x2, and a Doombot VS Superman and Batman
Black Mask moves up.Then Batman moves up and so do the Bodyguards under Black Masks order. Then Superman flies up. The Hired guns get an Order and advance and attack Superman, and have a hard time, but sneak in a wound here and there with the help/hurt from Black Mask. The Bodyguards tied Superman up and held him down, while the last two Hired Guns shot at him from height and started stacking wounds on him. Batman was afraid to get too close and take the Hired Guns out because Heroic Duty would kick in and Superman would take leaving engagements from the Bodyguards. So Batman worked on taking out those Bodyguards while the Hired Guns continued to put the pressure on Superman. Eventually, the Body Guards were gone, and so were the HIred Guns, so Superman pounded the Doombot for a quick kill. Black Mask took some E-strike action from Batman, and Batman put wounds on Doom and Black Mask, but Doom got Batman within 1 from death. Batman got a good shot in on Doom and killed him, then Black Mask from height was able to get the last wound on Batman for the win.

Black Mask wins with 3 wounds.

[IAmBatman]

One of those personalities sounds like it's describing hands ... the other sounds like it's describing ... units. :-P

[Griffin]

One of those personalities sounds like it's describing hands ... the other sounds like it's describing ... units. :-P
Suggestions then? I haven't been really happy with anything I have heard or thought of.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, Greedy was my best shot, but I wasn't 100% on that. It's going to take a bit more thinking ... maybe even Ruthless, but I feel like we're starting to overuse that.
Meticulous? Deadly (not really a personality ...)? Vicious? Merciless? (I actually like that last one as the inverse to Merciful, and it's along the same lines as Calloused, Hardened, and Apathetic in that they're emotionally cold).
Other possibilities: Grim ... Cold ... Barbarous ... Cruel ... Cutthroat ... Pitiless ... Relentless ... Heartless ...

I think I like Merciless best, and Cutthroat next after that.

[Griffin]

Merciless strikes me as being pretty spot on. :up:

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, that's my favorite by far. Glad we're on the same page. :-)

[IAmBatman]

Preemptive yea for ERB.

[A3n]

I to like Merciless.

[Griffin]

Preemptive yea for ERB.
Well in 24 hours I will rack the votes up or put up a proposal. ;)

Preemptive Yea.

[IAmBatman]

Oh, I know you can't propose yet, I just don't want to have to worry about voting later. I've read things and I'm happy with what I see.

[Griffin]

Oh, I know you can't propose yet, I just don't want to have to worry about voting later. I've read things and I'm happy with what I see.
Yeah, that is the benefit with a lot of these criminal units; they are all relatively straight forward and good at avoiding controversy.

[IAmBatman]

Most of the designs everybody's posting these days are things they've been refining for months (and many of us have already consulted each other on) anyway, so the starting designs have been really polished lately. Look no further than Absorbing Man to see that one.

[Griffin]

I propose we move to ERB.

[A3n]

Yea

[Hahma]

yea

[IAmBatman]

:bump: for votes.

[SirGalahad]

yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea.

[IAmBatman]

This passes to ERB!

[Griffin]

ERB sent.

[Griffin]

From Aldin
Monday Morning ERBs to get me going!

I like 'em. They're certainly not broken. If anything, I wonder if the cost will drop in playtesting. They are far and away the most fragile unique ranged squad (AE get height and a range of 8 ) - but they pack the biggest punch as well. I think they're gong to work quite well in the hands of skilled players and quite poorly in the hands of anyone who only thinks of OMs in terms of what order people are going to move in. THG more or less force you to think at least three turns ahead.

~Aldin, charging fifty bucks a head

From quozl,

I really like the theme of this squad!

I do have concerns about it being overly powerful though. 8 attacks of 3 in one turn plus moving a Crimelord or Mastermind is crazy powerful, not to mention all the Criminal synergy they're getting.

I would suggest bringing the squad size down to 3 and lowering the Defense to 2.

[Griffin]

Looks solid enough for me to do this:

I propose we move to playtesting phase.

[IAmBatman]

Works for me! yea.

[A3n]

I got nothin - Yea

[Hahma]

yea

[IAmBatman]

This passes to playtesting!

[Griffin]

Thanks Bats. I haven't got any tests back yet, but it is still very early.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - I should've sent the pm with those out a lot earlier than you did. I hadn't realized you'd be gone for so long.

[IAmBatman]

Playtest #2 is in from Johnny!

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT HIRED GUNS

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS (Love these guys – the ability to replace JUST attacks is brilliant, and opens a lot of doors to interesting strategies; I was able to come up with two [fighting back while Alfred patches up a Crime Lord/Mastermind and Lex] in only a few minutes.)

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? NOT SURE. (They dominated a lot of matches, but lost the last one rather handily. A lot of it comes down to good rolls vs. bad rolls, height vs. non height… of course, don’t all matches? In any case, I’d feel a lot better if they cost a bit more – 130 seems like it’d be a pretty healthy area.)

TEST 1
Map: Swamp Thing (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=239)
Units: Hired Guns vs. Sinestro Corps Soldier
Hired Guns win; 0 figures lost, 1 Round. (The Guns win initiative and move forward a bit, and the Soldier zooms ahead to tussle. However, two of the Guns get height, and with three attacks, he’s dead – the first does two wounds, he uses his shield on the second, and the last kills him dead.)

TEST 2
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Pyro
Hired Guns win; 2 figures lost, 1 Round. (Pyro wins initiative and starts to climb over the side; the Guns have a very slow start, but manage to climb the opposite hill before Pyro comes into range. Unfortunately, he uses his Living Flames to toast both of them, as they were adjacent. The remaining guns are able to retaliate, despite not having height, and riddle Pyro with holes – five Wounds in only three attacks.)

TEST 3
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Penguin
Hired Guns win; 1 figure lost, 1 Round. (Penguin copters his way over, while the Guns split up – two grab height, two go to cut him off, and one is able to nail a wound on the Penguin. However, Penguin flies over again, and kills him. The two on height come up for backup, but it’s not needed; the remaining Gun on the other side is able to kill Penguin with two solid attacks.)

TEST 4
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Kaemon Awa
Hired Guns win; 2 figures lost, 1 Round. (Kaemon charges forward and snipes a Gun from afar. Using their same “split up” strategy, two come around and two climb. One Gun moves forward and deals THREE wounds to Kaemon, but Kaemon engages and finishes him with a Quick Release. However, the remaining two surround the samurai, and a single attack finishes him yet again.)

TEST 5
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Toad/Guilty McCreech (125 Points)
Toad and Guilt McCreech win; Toad destroyed, Guilty unharmed, 4 Rounds. (Toad crosses the river, while Guilty climbs the hill; the Guns use their same tried-and-true strategy. Unfortunately, it doesn’t go nearly as well, as Guilty outguns those crossing the swamp and kills them both. The other two go to tussle with Toad, and, while one is killed, they eventually put him down. Using his two Order Marker advantage, the last Gun tries to reach Guilty before he’s killed. It doesn’t work.)


_____________________________________________________________



- Squad / Does it pass? NOT SURE. (These guys… are REALLY good. They were close against the Stingers, but had bad rolls, and decimated the Samurai and the Cops. They’re figures that, if you give ‘em an inch, they’ll take a mile, but are strong enough to resist attacks until they can gain height.)
TEST 1
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Marro Stingers x2
Hired Guns win; 3 figures lost, 3 Rounds. (The Guns gain an early advantage and take out half the Stingers before they can do any real damage. However, the tide turns a bit and a Gun is killed in retaliation. Yet, two more Stingers are destroyed crossing the river. But again, things go toward the Stingers, as the final one climbs a hill and kills two of the remaining Guns. The last two face off, and it’s the Gun that finally wins; again, just barely.)

TEST 2
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. Tagawa Samurai
Hired Guns win; 0 figures lost, 2 Rounds. (While it looked good for the Tagawa at first – a few attacks did no damage whatsoever against them as they climbed the hill – it fell apart rather quickly after that, and all three were shot down before they could engage the opponent.)

TEST 3
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns vs. 5th Precinct Beat Cops x2
Hired Guns win; 2 figures lost, 2 Rounds. (Things go well for the Cops to begin with, as they gain height and pick at some Guns from afar. One is killed, and two come in to cause chaos. Two Cops go down, while another from the back kills a second Gun. However, he and another Cop are killed, leaving only the two left in the start zone, and both are destroyed before they can even make an effort.)

Army Test/ Does it pass? FAIL. (The Guns killed Pyro in one turn – and he had height. Again, luck on the side of the Criminals, but they won with only about half losses, even though my grand “park Penguin by Alfred to heal up while the Guns attack” strategy never came to pass.)
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns, Penguin, Street Thugs x4, Alfred Pennyworth (600 Points) vs. Magneto, Pyro, Mystique (595 Points)
[spoiler]Criminals win; Penguin and Alfred destroyed, 2 Guns destroyed, 3 Thugs destroyed, 6 Rounds. (Magneto starts things off by flying onto the nearby cliff, bringing his allies along with Magnetic Throw. At the Guns and Thugs start to wade across the river, Alfred gets into position, waiting to fix up Penguin when he’s wounded, and Penguin himself starts to copter forward. He ends up dealing one wound to Mystique, and later ends up hurting himself when they engage. Taking the opportunity, Mystique gets Alfred in her sights and finishes him off with a single attack. Penguin, however, gets his revenge next turn – though he takes a disengagement strike, he’s able to deal five wounds to Mystique in one Umbrella Gun attack. Shortly after, the Thugs start to swarm Magneto and Pyro, while the Guns come up, as well… and they dispatch Pyro in one turn. Magneto’s now entirely alone, but his height and Magnetic Shield work wonders – at least twenty attacks from the Guns and Thugs are made, but only ONE wound is dealt, total. Magneto, in the meantime, knocks out Penguin, leaving him against four Guns and… fifteen Thugs. Magneto puts up a hell of a fight. He kills off two more Thugs and two Guns with only his normal attack [not risking taking down his shield], but one lucky shot from a Gun takes him down.)

_____________________________________________________________



- Army Test/ Does it pass? NOT SURE. (They seemed good at this price; however, three of four were killed before they could do anything at all, and all told they DID kill off Poison Ivy. So, my thoughts from prior tests remain.)
Map: Swamp Thing
Units: Hired Guns, Lex Luthor, Superman, Street Thugs x3, Two Face, Bob, Agent of HYDRA (1000 Points) vs. Joker, Green Goblin, Deadpool, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn (1000 Points)
Team Insano wins; 0 Wounds on Deadpool, all others destroyed, 11 Rounds. (Very eventful first two rounds. Goblin flies over at first, while Lex sends out Superman to act as his fists. In addition, the Thugs start to move out, and Harley runs up behind Gobbie. While Goblin is able to kill one Thug, Superman quickly engages and deals a whopping four damage to him. Harley quickly retaliates by throwing her Smilex Bomb into the start zone, killing Bob along with SEVEN Thugs. So, yeah. That evens things a bit. However, the Guns finish off Goblin, and Harley, engaged with Superman, doesn’t do much at all. Ivy comes along and single-handedly shifts things… she’s able to deal a wound to Superman and kill three of the Guns with her Plant Animation, then moves up to seduce Lex. She does by next turn – but, right afterwards, a lucky shot from the remaining Hired Gun kills her, turning Lex back. By now, Deadpool has entered the fray, and spends most of his time finishing off the squaddies, who can do nothing to stop him. [By the by, Joker’s been using his Reorganized Chaos to mess with Order Markers for quite some time, generally moving them onto the Hired Guns to keep Superman immobile.] Before too long, it’s only Superman left, with Deadpool and Harley fighting back and Joker coming up from behind. He’s able to take down Harley with a single attack, but Deadpool deals another two damage, bringing him up to 4 Wounds. Joker makes Superman sweat a bit, but is dispatched without much effort – unfortunately, Deadpool sticks around for quite some time. About 3 Rounds of back-and-forth, Deadpool doing nothing but heal and Superman blocking all attacks. Eventually, Deadpool gets lucky twice in a row, finishing off Superman.)

FINAL THOUGHTS: They’re underpriced. I love them, but they’re DEFINITELY underpriced. (Well, maybe I love them BECAUSE they're definitely underpriced!) They’re only slightly worse than two squads of Street Thugs, were able to win all but two matches, both of which were either A) because of bad rolls or B) because of bad planning. 140 seems like the sweet spot for these guys, if you ask me. I mean, eight attack of three with each activation... nothing to sniff at!

[Griffin]

Playtests updated on the front page.

What is funny is that we had these guys at 120, but then after I playtested them I bumped them to 130, but I forgot to update the front page. :oops: So these guys should definitely be at 130 just as Johnny said.

[IAmBatman]

Doh!

[NecroBlade]

Any chance we can make trigger happy tied to a d20 roll like Penguin's Self-Importance? It seems like the theme for that would be less of a choice (i.e. not "you may").

These guys also seem like quite a bargain (though they'd be less so with the above suggestion). Einar Imperium (who are admittedly a little pricey) cost 140 for a 3-man Double Attacking melee squad. They've got Stealth Flying, sure, but no Range, little synergy (Kiova, Atlaga, and maybe MDG; whereas these guys have the already impressive Crime/Mastermind faction), and of course one less activation per OM (and that's not even counting the Crime Lord's movement).

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, but being a Unique Squad is a major weakness because you only have to kill one of them for their effectiveness to be significantly lowered.
Also, the Einar Imperium kind of suck.

[Griffin]

Any chance we can make trigger happy tied to a d20 roll like Penguin's Self-Importance? It seems like the theme for that would be less of a choice (i.e. not "you may").

These guys also seem like quite a bargain (though they'd be less so with the above suggestion). Einar Imperium (who are admittedly a little pricey) cost 140 for a 3-man Double Attacking melee squad. They've got Stealth Flying, sure, but no Range, little synergy (Kiova, Atlaga, and maybe MDG; whereas these guys have the already impressive Crime/Mastermind faction), and of course one less activation per OM (and that's not even counting the Crime Lord's movement).

I hear ya, I do, but as Bats said, they are a unique squad, and that is enough to really power check them I think. And so far the playtesting seems to be supporting their current cost.

[NecroBlade]

:duh: I completely missed the unique part. They're probably perfectly fine then.

[IAmBatman]

Griffin traded me playtests (he'll be doing MODOK tonight, he promised me!) in order to get this one done. :-)


C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT THE HIRED GUNS

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS though I think I'd almost rather give them a full activation for positioning than bother with Trigger Happy most of the time.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?

TEST 1
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Robin (120)
Hired Guns won on Turn 3 of Round 1 with 3 left. Robin, without a multiple attack, just had no shot here, even with the first attack.

TEST 2
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Harley Quinn (130)
Harley Quinn proved a great counter here - she won with one life left after one full round. As much as the Hired Guns tried to spread out, Harley still hit two of them with her bomb (but failed to remove an Order Marker). Her acrobatic abilities then helped her stand up to their double attacks, but they still got in enough attacks to make this one very close. Good match up!

TEST 3
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Jonah Hex (130)
Hired Guns took down Jonah on their first series of attacks, finishing him without losing a figure on Turn 2 of Round 1. Again, mid-level heroes without multiple attacks or special defensive powers have no shot. Jonah's really a hero killer, though, so this doesn't surprise me.

TEST 4
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Two-Face (130)
Two-Face went on an early three attack streak early with Coin Flip and killed two Hired Guns, but they went on to kill him one the final of their four attacks to win on Turn 3 or Round 1! If Two-Face had managed to defend against one more attack, I think he could've won this one. Fairly close. 130 is feeling fairly good so far.

TEST 5
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Madame HYDRA (140)
Madame HYDRA loses a lot of synergy without her HYDRA agents. She lost on Turn 2 of Round 1 with 3 of 4 Hired Guns left. Her superior threat range got her the first kill, but she wasn't quite stout enough to handle the response from the Hired Guns.

_____________________________________________________________

- Squad / Does it pass?
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130) vs. Beat Cops x2 (130)
Even stripped of the worth of their special powers, the Beat Cops showed the value of superior numbers and initiative. They won on Turn 2 of Round 1 with 4 of 6 Cops remaining. The Cops got initiative and got the first attacks off, from height, taking out three poor defense rolling Hired Guns. The last of the Guns managed to take out two Cops, but couldn't defend against the next attack he received.
_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130), Lex Luthor (100), Superman (400), Street Thugs x1 (70), and Black Mask (100) (800) vs. Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Green Arrow, Black Canary (790)
The Hired Guns team won on Turn 2 of Round 4 with a full life Superman and full life Lex Luthor left. The villains had good luck here, with Lex never failing a Red Kryptonite roll on about 6 attempts. Green Arrow and Black Canary exhausted themselves against squads, leaving Superman to clean up without a special attacker to worry about. Hawkman was easily targeted first during end game, leaving him without an ability to benefit from Hawkgirl's wounds. The Hired Guns advanced early, hoping to get in position to benefit from Trigger Happy, but their offensive potential was high enough to make them a priority target, and Green Arrow took them down early. They at least put two wounds on Green Arrow first. Black Mask killed one Street Thug and one Hired Gun with his Criminal Motivation. This test felt plenty balanced - the hero team just didn't have a good enough Superman counter.
_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Martian Warzone: The Heat
Units: Hired Guns (130), Madame HYDRA (140), HYDRA Agents x2 (160), Red Skull (190), Body Guards x4 (30) (680) vs. Thor (430), and Iron Man (240) (670)
Iron Man wins on Turn 2 of Round 5 with 1 wound on his card and Thor dead. The Hired Guns were the featured offense here and managed to help take down Thor by attrition, scoring 6 of his 8 wounds (Madame HYDRA put the other two on, including the finisher, with her Venomous Strike). Iron Man cleaned things up, though, his double attack shredding what was left after Thor's hammer ripped people apart to begin with.
The Hired Guns are really nasty offensively, but they're pretty weak defensively and they require a good deal of finesse as a player to get full value out of. I think they're solid at 130 points.

[IAmBatman]

Preemptive yea for final editing.

[Griffin]

I updated the front page with the playtest. Thanks Bats.

I propose we move to Final Editing.

[IAmBatman]

You're welcome. :-) Just live up to your end of it and get that MODOK test in!

[Hahma]

Glad Madame HYDRA finally got Venomous Strikes working Bats. :D

Yea to final editing.

[Griffin]

I am working in overdrive.

[SirGalahad]

yea to final editing

[NecroBlade]

Yea, but this power should read:

DOUBLE ATTACK
When each member of the Hired Guns attacks, he may attack one additional time.

See: Einar Imperium.

[Griffin]

Thanks Necro, updated.

Do we have 4 pics of this guy?

[A3n]

Thanks Necro, updated.

Do we have 4 pics of this guy?
I actually have this (only one) so I can take the photos hopefully a bit later today.

Cheers

[Hahma]

Thanks Necro, updated.

Do we have 4 pics of this guy?

Thanks Necro, updated.

Do we have 4 pics of this guy?
I actually have this (only one) so I can take the photos hopefully a bit later today.

Cheers


Or you can just use these (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1213943&postcount=6) from the first page, post #6. :roll:

[Griffin]

still Voting For Final Editing Phase.

[Hahma]

Did you and A3n see my previous post Griff? I've had the pix for these guys in this thread for a long time, right on the first page.

[Griffin]

Did you and A3n see my previous post Griff? I've had the pix for these guys in this thread for a long time, right on the first page.
No. :lol: Somehow I missed both posts. :lol:

[Griffin]

Thanks Hahma. :up:

A3n, everything you need is on the front page, sorry about the crappy comic art, but that is the best I could find.

[A3n]

can you find some more bandanna bad guys (with the guns would be great, but without would be fine also) just as long as they look suitable bad-ass.

Cheers

[Griffin]

I will try....

[Griffin]

Waiting on A3n and Whitey to vote to move to final editing.

[A3n]

:oops: thought I had, Yea

[Griffin]

No worries, even if you had I would still be waiting on that no voting no proposing sneaky mate of yours. :p

[Griffin]

A3n, if you want to, I could use some cards here.

[A3n]

I wanted some more bandanna people.

[Hahma]

I wanted some more bandanna people.


I had to read that twice. I thought you said, "I wanted some more banana, people!" :D

[A3n]

I wanted some more bandanna people.


I had to read that twice. I thought you said, "I wanted some more banana, people!" :D
:rofl:

[Griffin]

Oye, that is sooo difficult to find.

[Griffin]

Alright, I am sorry but this is the best I can do:
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu234/hsgriffin/Tekken_6_Thugs_by_NegroSaki.jpg?t=1287904397

[IAmBatman]

And better than anything I can do! (And I tried!)

[A3n]

Mini card (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_HiredGuns_mini.jpg).

Now this is about the best I could think to do with the comic pic. BTW the 2 figures at the back don't have bodies so really can't be moved where it will be obvious that a body should exist.

Comic card (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_HiredGuns_comic.jpg).

Cheers

[Griffin]

Thanks A3n. I know this card is probably the most difficult to accomplish with what little material we had for them, but you made it work.

I propose we move to On Deck.

[SirGalahad]

Left Box
CRIMINALS

TRIGGER HAPPY
Crime Lord should be 2 words (both times)

Is there a way to offset the targeting silhouettes, instead of having them all in a row?

[Griffin]

Left Box
CRIMINALS

TRIGGER HAPPY
Crime Lord should be 2 words (both times)

Is there a way to offset the targeting silhouettes, instead of having them all in a row?
You totally :ninja:'d me. I was just about to ask for those things and take responsibility for the Left Box and the Crime Lord mistake. :? :p

I updated the front page with the cards and made the corrections to the text. Sorry A3n, that is my fault, but the row of hit-zone figures is all you. :p

[SirGalahad]

Wow, my first :ninja:

[Griffin]

:lol: Actually you :ninja: me a lot. :p

[IAmBatman]

Great job making the art card work well beyond what I thought was possible here, A3n! :-) I'll look back at this one for voting purposes once it's been updated.

[A3n]

JPGs updated. PDFs on the way to GO now.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Yea.

[Griffin]

errr.... I am a moron :wave:

[IAmBatman]

Thanks A3n. I know this card is probably the most difficult to accomplish with what little material we had for them, but you made it work.

I propose we move to On Deck.

I propose we finalize to On Deck.

Echo.

Echo.

[Hahma]

Yea

[Griffin]

Thanks A3n. I know this card is probably the most difficult to accomplish with what little material we had for them, but you made it work.

I propose we move to On Deck.

I propose we finalize to On Deck.

Echo.

Echo.
I guess I just wanted to be sure everyone knew we were voting by bumping, but I do like the time stamp on the first one.... :lol:

[SirGalahad]

yea

[IAmBatman]

Me too. :-D I want to see you extend your reach into your next design ...

[A3n]

Yea

[Griffin]

Whitey, Spidey, Necro, and Grey Owl's votes are needed here. :)

[GreyOwl]

This one started while I was out, so you don't need mine.

But does anyone else think the turqoise tanktops make them look...flamboyant?:shock: They kind of remind me of West Side Story. They're thugs, but they could break out into song at any moment.:p

[Griffin]

This one started while I was out, so you don't need mine.

But does anyone else think the turqoise tanktops make them look...flamboyant?:shock: They kind of remind me of West Side Story. They're thugs, but they could break out into song at any moment.:p
:rofl: Definitely. :lol:

[SirGalahad]

When (snap) you're a Jet (snap), you're a Jet (snap) all the way (snap)
From your first (snap) cigarette (snap) to your last (snap) dying day (snap)

Scary that I remember that.

[Griffin]

When (snap) you're a Jet (snap), you're a Jet (snap) all the way (snap)
From your first (snap) cigarette (snap) to your last (snap) dying day (snap)

Scary that I remember that.
:rofl:

[Griffin]

This passes.

We need PDFs Gr3ny.

[A3n]

Cheers

[Griffin]

Thank you sir.

PDFs are updated.

[IAmBatman]

Why doesn't this thread list the figures for it?

[Griffin]

Don't know, but it is there now. :up:

[Griffin]

The PDFs are broken here. :confused:

[A3n]

Cheers

[Griffin]

Updated.

[Scapemage]

I was just about to print these guys and noticed that the personality trait (merciless) isn't aligned with the rest of the Left Box text.

[Griffin]

Good catch scape. A3n, is this one under your care?

[A3n]

Good catch scape. A3n, is this one under your care?

Fixed!

[Griffin]

Thank you sir. :D

Will it take a while for the Jpegs to change?

[A3n]

Thank you sir. :D

Will it take a while for the Jpegs to change?

Well if I had checked the links it would have been updated straight away. They were linked to the photobucket versions. All fixed now.

Cheers

[Balantai]

Can we get these cards linked to the correct server?

[Griffin]

How we looking now?

[Balantai]

The Hired Guns look ready for their May release.

[tcglkn]

These guys are a staple in any Kingpin army I run. They can give so much firepower in one turn it's not even funny.

[IAmBatman]

They're also nasty in a 1,000 point HYDRA Army.
HYDRA Agents x3, Red Skull, Baron von Strucker, Madame HYDRA, Hired Guns, and Body Guard x4. I almost think that army's too good! Seriously.
Move the Hired Guns out to a good sniping position, then lead with Madame HYDRA and use the HYDRA Agents and Body Guards to keep her alive, and then once all the enemies are tied up, you can either rain down fire with the Hired Guns or bring up Red Skull, use the Cosmic Cube to move someone adjacent so he can smack them around from height, and then activate Madame HYDRA or Von Strucker with Master Motivator.
Soooo nasty!

[Scapemage]

I'm very excited to seethes guys as Wandering Monsters at my tournament Saturday. These guys are my favorite squad so far.

[IAmBatman]

They are naaaasty! Putting them with Red Skull, Madame Hydra, Baron von Strucker, HYDRA Agents x3, and enough Body Guards to round things out in a 1,000 point army is my current go-to for a devastating 1,000 point army.

[Good Pig]

I still need to get the new Red Skull card printed, with about 15 others. I even made that one. :)

[johnny139]

Very happy to see these guys finally released. You can lose track of them easily in my (admittedly limited) experience, but get them into position and hell comes quick. Very simple design, like all three released in this wave, but so full of possibilities it makes your mouth water.

My one disappointment is that the figures are so BORING! The "gangbanger" "culture" (and all of those quotation marks are excessive, let me tell you) is so excessive and colorful that four white guys in turquoise tank tops does it a disservice. Thankfully, the artist for Young Justice just posted A FOUR-MAN TEAM (http://jerome-k-moore.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d3hkn0p) from "Welcome to Happy Harbor" - Hoody Boy, Git N Payd, Daddy Lidz, and Henry. I think when I get my hands on some of these guys, I'll do my best (which is probably pretty terrible!) to spice them up.

[IAmBatman]

We're pretty much limited to what Heroclix has to offer on that front. :reapershrug:
I was really impressed that we managed to find some decent art for this card! That's always tough with the non-superheroes.

[johnny139]

I know, I just wish Heroclix was less terrible. :p 'Scape has really spoiled me on the "cheap-but-quality miniatures" front.

[IAmBatman]

True that. But it's been a long time since we even got that from Heroscape (see DnD Heroscape).

[A3n]

I was really impressed that we managed to find some decent art for this card! That's always tough with the non-superheroes.

This one was really difficult, it is actually many pictures turned to cartoon & then layered together.

[Margloth]

I'm so glad Kingpin's not a crime lord... otherwise these guys would be terrifying!

EDIT:
So how is it playing them with Black Mask? I figure there's a pretty high risk / reward factor there...

[IAmBatman]

I mostly play them with HYDRA ... so sick. :-P Black Mask would be an interesting combo, though, for sure!

[Griffin]

I'm so glad Kingpin's not a crime lord... otherwise these guys would be terrifying!

EDIT:
So how is it playing them with Black Mask? I figure there's a pretty high risk / reward factor there...
Definitely. I prefer to NOT use them together, because I would rather whiff and attack again with a Hired Gun than have him killed. BM is really best designed for Unique Criminal Heroes, but there are some cases where I would use him with these guys; on height, attacking Blob or Superman or Thor (you need to take that risk or guarantee of death in HOPES of breaking their defenses), attacking other Squads, etc.

[Good Pig]

My first time using these guys all four of them repeatedly shot at Colossus for 3 full rounds and didn't put one wound on him. They terrorize the Vigilantes but definitely have a tough time up against heroes with nice defensive bonuses.

[Margloth]

For he record, I think these guys might be the go-to counter draft to Wolverine.

Any Crime Lord or Mastermind can trade a move to swarm Wolvie with Bodyguards and lock him down, and then gun him to death with the Gangland Gunners.

[IAmBatman]

Wolvie pretty much hates multiple attacks in general, so these guys definitely fit the bill.

[Good Pig]

Good call on the Wolverine counter. :)

[Lord Pyre]

The same paint job for each one was boring, so I mixed it up! :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp95/Lord_Pyre/Figures/IMG_0366.jpg

[Good Pig]

These look great, nice work! :)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

They look like they came that way, very nice work!

[IAmBatman]

Cool stuff. :-) I think that might be my favorite LP repaint to date.

[Lord Pyre]

Cool stuff. :-) I think that might be my favorite LP repaint to date.

The joke aside, I think Kingpin turned out better, actually. These guys I just changed their clothes or skin color, not even a full repaint. Kind of quick. But I had to add the tattoos and the right arm of two of them, you can kind of see in the picture. I like adding little details like that. :p

[IAmBatman]

Not really a fan of the diminutive Kingpin mini, so I'm much more into these repaints. :-)

[Griffin]

I really appreciate the racial equality. Whites and Blacks are usually in the same gangs. :p

Jokes aside, these are the best repaints you have ever done IMO.

[Margloth]

Is it just like the movies, where the black minis always die first? :lol:

[Griffin]

You are thinking about the people wearing red coats or shirts. :lol:

[IAmBatman]

In horror/slasher movies - black guy dies first, then couple having sex.
In sci-fi/star trek movies - guy in the red shirt dies first (except Next Gen, where they put the captain in red).

[johnny139]

Thankfully these guys are about identical to the Bodyguard synergy-wise!

-Combinations and Synergies-


Synergy Benefits Received


Classic:
N/AMarvel:
Trigger Happy allows the Hired Guns to attack instead of a Crime Lord of Mastermind. Current Crime Lords and Masterminds include: Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9710).C3G:
Trigger Happy allows the Hired Guns to attack instead of a Crime Lord of Mastermind. Current Crime Lords and Masterminds include: Baron von Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628), Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312), Hush (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35869), Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547), Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847), Penguin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102875), Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34730), The Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665), Two-Face (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586), and Ventriloquist (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35410).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional attack die if they are adjacent to Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional die in leaving engagement attacks if they are in clear sight of Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional attack die if they are adjacent to The Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665) and are attacking an adjacent figure that does not have any Order Markers on its Army Card.
As Criminals, Hired Guns can add to their Move with the Ventriloquist (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35410)'s Heist Planner special power.
As a Criminal Squad, Hired Guns may be activated by Kingpin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33766)'s Organized Crime special power.Synergy Benefits Offered



Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As Humans, Hired Guns allow adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.
As Criminals, Hired Guns may prevent Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547) from being attacked or taking leaving engagement attacks due to his Criminal Deception special power.
As Criminals, Hired Guns may receive wounds instead of Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847) due to her Necessary Sacrifices special power.

[IAmBatman]

Updated.

[Griffin]

Thanks.

[Yodaking]

Following Lord Pyres lead, I also did a repaint job to give the different hired guns some personality. They are unique after all.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/yodaking/Heroscape/City%20Scape/IMG_1030.jpg
(click to enlarge)

I left the one untouched (far right), then made the other 3 all represent different gangs. I know at first glance it might seem odd that they would all be working together but I took page out of the Heath Ledgers' Joker playbook on how to assemble a supervillain gang.

[Griffin]

Hey, that looks really great. I may have to do that now myself, and perhaps we can even get a recall on the card or at least with some alternate art. If you take pics of each of those figs at different angles, I will see what I can do about getting your figs on the actual card. Great work! :up:

[lefton4ya]

These guys are the most powerful common squad I have ever seen. Eight attacks of 3, or up to 6 with height and bonuses from Black Mask and the Ridder. 24-48 dice on one turn is INSANE, not to mention these are common units so 3-5 squads in a larger point game (including 2 or 3 crimelords) would be CRAZY.

I read the initial playtest and it seemed like they won more than lost. Any additional feedback after you guys have been playing for awhile? I think this sums it up:
C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNITHIRED GUNS
...
FINAL THOUGHTS:They’re underpriced. I love them, but they’re DEFINITELY underpriced. (Well, maybe I love them BECAUSE they're definitely underpriced!) They’re only slightly worse than two squads of Street Thugs, were able to win all but two matches, both of which were either A) because of bad rolls or B) because of bad planning. 140 seems like the sweet spot for these guys, if you ask me. I mean, eight attack of three with each activation... nothing to sniff at!

[Griffin]

I wonder how much Johnny was testing this UNIQUE squad at at that time? ;)

[IAmBatman]

These guys are the most powerful common squad I have ever seen. Eight attacks of 3, or up to 6 with height and bonuses from Black Mask and the Ridder. 48 dice on one turn is INSANE, not to mention these are common units so 3-5 squads in a larger point game (including 2 or 3 crimelords) would be CRAZY.


I think I found your major issue. You think these guys are a common squad ... :-P

[Tornado]

They are unique Lefton4ya. Still awesome though. :ninja:

[Griffin]

Exactly.


But even still, these guys are nasty. I think that they can do in one round what a few squads of Stingers can do. Sure you get a lot of attacks out of these guys at first, but that drops quick once one or two are killed. Where as a great COMMON squad doesn't have that problem. So these guys are better at first, but after a round they drop off and are no longer as useful per order marker, unlike a Common Squad that can provide longevity for the game.

[Tornado]

Every time I have used these guys they have ruined my first playtest by mowing down the other team in Round 1 or 2. It usually takes one time of getting wiped out before I figure out a decent way to counter them with the team at hand. Really vicious when bonding with Kingpin.

[Griffin]

With a defense of 3, send in a big bruiser or send in a fast attacker or even just a fast mover and kill one or two quickly and you will see how easy it is to take the steam out of them. But they are definitely an A unit to be sure.

[IAmBatman]

A+ even. But not broken (they would be if they were common, though!).

[Griffin]

Yeah, their greatest weakness is their "uniqueness". Kill a couple and watch them deflate.

[Lord Pyre]

Hey, that looks really great. I may have to do that now myself, and perhaps we can even get a recall on the card or at least with some alternate art. If you take pics of each of those figs at different angles, I will see what I can do about getting your figs on the actual card. Great work! :up:

Mine weren't good enough for you? :p

[Griffin]

Well typically, you and I do not share the same painting aesthetics. You really like dark black washes over everything, and I don't. It doesn't make your style wrong though, just wrong for me. I think for your style, you do a great job. :)

[Lord Pyre]

The same paint job for each one was boring, so I mixed it up! :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp95/Lord_Pyre/Figures/IMG_0366.jpg

Well typically, you and I do not share the same painting aesthetics. You really like dark black washes over everything, and I don't. It doesn't make your style wrong though, just wrong for me. I think for your style, you do a great job. :)

I didn't even use washes on these guys. :p

I have gotten a lot better recently. But I suppose you still dont' have to like it. :p

I'll admit Yoda's do look a ton better though!

[Yodaking]

I like how you painted the bases all black. I should do that myself since it might be a while before I get around to re-basing all my C3G figures. But then I would need to do it for all my figures and I have quite a few now.

[Griffin]

Those look good LP, and I agree, YK's look best.

[lefton4ya]

I didn't realize they were unique - a lot better but still might be overkill. I have not played them, but I have played a similar custom I made (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/showimage.php?i=7906&original=1&c=member&imageuser=6527) that has a squad of 3 with a double-attack of 2, and I felt it is worth almost 130. Maybe I will try them soon as I do have the figures (or I can always proxy civilians/street thug figures).

[vydars_notes]

If the Hired Guns have elevation on their target do they get the extra die with their double attack?? Or is considered a special attack where they can only roll the 3 dice stated on their card????

[A3n]

If the Hired Guns have elevation on their target do they get the extra die with their double attack?? Or is considered a special attack where they can only roll the 3 dice stated on their card????

Yes they get the extra die. You always get the extra height advantage die when attacking with your normal attack. It is only a special attack when the power you are using says it's a Special Attack in it's title.

In this case you are attacking twice with their normal attack so if the figure that is attacking (as it is per figure) has height it gets the bonus.

Cheers

[cwidje]

Out of curiosity, is this card unique because of its characteristics?

[quozl]

Out of curiosity, is this card unique because of its characteristics?

Is that the weirdest question ever? Why else would it be Unique?

[Margloth]

Yes. I can tell you this is one of the nastiest cards in existence, for all of Heroscape. More than one squad of these guys running around would be INSANE.

As is they're tough but exponentially less good as they die, so not unbeatable.

[IAmBatman]

The key is not to let them shoot first! :-) If you can use the superior threat range of a superhero or an area effect or some super bonding to take a couple of them out before they can shoot you, you're fine.

If, on the other hand, you find all of your forces tied up with HYDRA Agents and the Hired Guns climb to height and start firing away at you ... ouch! Like Margloth said, naaasty.

I still maintain that one of the most competitive 1,000 point armies in Superheroscape is as follows:

Red Skull (220), Baron von Strucker (210), Madame HYDRA (140), HYDRA Agents x3 (210), Hired Guns (130), Body Guards x6 (90)

Though I bet Mad Hatter at 90 instead of the Body Guards would be pretty nasty too ... I just like the Body Guards as extra sacrifices for Madame HYDRA.

[cwidje]

Ok, I was wondering this because there was I chance that I missed something. Also, lately I have been testing the reasons for uniqueness on Valhalla-Scape and determined that most figures are unique because of skill so I was assuming that these reasons were similar.

[Margloth]

A great counter to the Hired Guns is C3G Captain America. His autoshield and stout defense is pretty good at blocking the Hired Guns, and his special attack is great for taking them out.

[IAmBatman]

Plus he can bring Bucky along for an extra shot or two against them. :-)

[cwidje]

Thank you for the information.

[Griffin]

As it was pointed out by Margloth and then confirmed by Bats, this design is a Unique Squad mostly for the reason that it is just sick as all get out. However, the original idea for this squad was a Unique Squad simply because I wanted to design a Unique Squad for the criminal faction that would be able to "synergize" with the faction well, and put down an ungodly amount of bullets.

[johnny139]

Thug 4 Lyfe.

-Combinations and Synergies-


Synergy Benefits Received


Classic:
N/AMarvel:
Trigger Happy allows the Hired Guns to attack instead of a Crime Lord of Mastermind. Current Crime Lords and Masterminds include: Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9710).C3G:
Trigger Happy allows the Hired Guns to attack instead of a Crime Lord of Mastermind. Current Crime Lords and Masterminds include: Baron von Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628), Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312), Hush (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35869), Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547), Mad Hatter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35532), Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847), Penguin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102875), Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34730), The Hood (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38192), The Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665), Two-Face (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586), and Ventriloquist (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35410).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional attack die if they are adjacent to Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional die in leaving engagement attacks if they are in clear sight of Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547).
As Criminals, Hired Guns receive an additional attack die if they are adjacent to The Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665) and are attacking an adjacent figure that does not have any Order Markers on its Army Card.
As Criminals, Hired Guns can add to their Move with the Ventriloquist (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35410)'s Heist Planner special power.
As a Criminal Squad, Hired Guns may be activated by Kingpin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33766)'s Organized Crime special power.Synergy Benefits Offered



Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As Humans, Hired Guns allow adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.
As Criminals, Hired Guns may prevent Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547) from being attacked or taking leaving engagement attacks due to his Criminal Deception special power.
As Criminals, Hired Guns may receive wounds instead of Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847) due to her Necessary Sacrifices special power.

[SirGalahad]

Updated

[beholderthedm]

So just to make sure I'm using these guys correctly with Mad Hatter and Harley Quinn: After revealing an order marker on mad hatter, I can move him, toss a hat down, and then either attack with mad hatter or with hired guns, is that right? And then even if I attack with hired guns that would count as taking a turn with mad hatter so I could activate Harley Quinn?

[IAmBatman]

I believe that's correct.