NHSD: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 format

[warriorneedsfoodbadly]

Okay, so let's open it up to discussion on the format and use last year's rules as the base.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=26639 from 2009

Dual Army Play

Bring two 520 point armies: a primary army and a backup army. There can be as much overlap between the two armies as you like--that is, there can be only one unit's difference, or no units in common whatsoever, or anywhere in between.

When you receive your tournament card, record both armies. Your primary army goes in the [probably red] section; your backup army goes in the [probably blue] section. Immediately before you begin play each match of the tournament, briefly switch cards with your opponent so that you can see what army you will be playing against, and your opponent can do the same.

For the first two matches of the tournament, use your primary army; the backup army is not used at this point. Before the third game, and before each game thereafter, everyone who has lost at least two games may choose to retire their primary army and begin using their backup army. If you choose to do this, draw a line through your primary army on your tournament card. Your decision to retire your primary army is irrevocable; once you do so, your primary army is not used and you must use your backup army exclusively.

Your choice to retire your primary army is made before assigments are given for the upcoming match. Thus, you will not know either the next map you will be playing on, nor who your opponent is (or what army they will be using). Your decision is based solely on whether you feel that your primary army has performed poorly enough that you would be better off switching to your backup army.

Switching armies is entirely optional, and therefore you do not have to bring a backup army if you do not wish to. You cannot switch to your backup army unless you have lost two games. Your decision to switch must be made during one of the windows allotted for switching and at no other time. Once you switch, you cannot switch back. If you honestly don't have enough figures to field a backup army, please contact the tournament organizers and we will make every effort to help you out.


Avoiding Duplication

Duplication of Opponent: For the first match, if your randomly chosen opponent is someone that you came to the tournament with (i.e. family member or friend), tell the tournament organizers and they will arrange a switch. In later matches, you may play either someone you came with or someone you've already played. That's just the way the tourney ball bounces.

Duplication of Map: In any match, if you and your opponent have played two other matches on that map (i.e., if you have played two games on it, or your opponent has played two games on it, or you have played one game on it and your opponent has played one game on it), notify the tournament organizers and they will arrange for you to play your match on a different map.


Mistakes/Questions During Play

If you make a mistake during play in your opponent's favor, such as forgetting to use your bonding, forgetting to add a bonus for height, special powers, etc, or just moving somewhere you didn't mean to, the mistake stands. Your opponent may allow you to correct the mistake (go ahead and take the bonding turn, roll the extra die, change your move, etc), but certainly is not obliged to. It's a tournament. Strict rules apply.

If you make a mistake during play in your own favor and your opponent catches you, you must immediately reverse the mistake (reroll all your dice if you rolled too many, return to your starting point if your move was illegal, etc). If your opponent doesn't catch the mistake until after s/he begins his/her next turn, the mistake stands.

Try to insure that all your dice are rolled on a flat surface. If any of your dice are "cocked" (i.e. not lying flat) or roll off the table, you must reroll all of them. (Again, your opponent can show mercy on you at his/her option.)

If your figure won't fit, it can't stop there. Period. No "it mostly fits," no "it's almost flat on the board," no "stinger denial is so cheesy." Sorry. (Again, your opponent can be nice to you.)

If you and your opponent disagree as to line of sight, just roll off with the d20's. No need to make a big deal about it.

If you or your opponent has a rules question or clarification that you can't settle between you, solicit the opinions of other players until you find 2 others in agreement, then take that as a final decision. To be clear: once you find 2 other people who agree with each other--regardless of whether or not they agree with you--stop asking. Feel free to start with the tournament organizers; many of them are very knowledgeable about the game, the official Hasbro FAQ, and the rules discussions at Heroscapers.com.


Time Limit Per Match

At the beginning of each match, the tournament organizers will announce the start of the match. After 45 minutes, the tournmanet organizers will call time. At this time, finish the current round that you and your opponent are playing. For instance, if you just started the round, play all 3 turns. If you are currently just finishing turn 3, that will be the end of your game.

After the match is complete, score the game according the partial scoring (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=21607) rules

What needs to change and why?

[Xotli]

Personally, I'm all about changing it up. Different is always better.

I mean, really. One of the best things about Heroscape is what a versatile game it is. We should be showcasing that, right? So why do the same thing over and over?

That's just my $.02.

[S1R_ART0R1US]

I agree that variety is good, but I'd prefer if we played "normal kill 'em all". I don't want to do a draft or an army swap-I want to use the army(ies?) I bring. That's my $.02.

[Xn F M]

Thanks for getting this up WNFB.

The only change I'd really like to see would be the point total. While I wouldn't complain about playing at 520 points, I'd really like to try something in the "standard range" that's a little more nonstandard. Maybe 480?

[Xotli]

I agree that variety is good, but I'd prefer if we played "normal kill 'em all". I don't want to do a draft or an army swap-I want to use the army(ies?) I bring. That's my $.02.

Well, okay. there's plenty of "different" to be had even within those guidelines. There's teaming up (preset or random). There's glyphs (which we've never played with, AFAIK). There's doing theme armies. There's put out a list of little used units and your army/ies must include at least one of them. There's (at the risk of starting yet another religious war) actually allowing Marvel units. There's no range allowed, or only range allowed. There's draft a giant (say, 1,000 point) army but then form a smaller battalion out of that army for each game, after seeing the army (but not the battalion) you're up against. There's so much creativity in the game, and here on the boards, to draw from. Let's capitalize on that!

(Although why hating on the draft? I love the draft. Adds a whole new dimension to the games. Although admittedly difficult to do in a tournament setting ... I'd love to come up with something to address that sometime. But probably not until we get Battleplan for smartphones.)

The only change I'd really like to see would be the point total. While I wouldn't complain about playing at 520 points, I'd really like to try something in the "standard range" that's a little more nonstandard. Maybe 480?

The only thing I have to say about that is that my appetite for lower point totals increases proportionally with the number of armies I'm allowed to bring. :D (Well, and okay, one more thing: what counts as "standard"?)

[S1R_ART0R1US]

I don't like the draft in a tournament setting because I think it's more suited to casual play. I'm fine with theme armies (planet, general, personality, etc.) but I'm not that much of a fan of limiting builds by forcing them to exclude certain units or include others.

And I think most people regard the standard as 400-600 points, 24 hex start zone kill 'em all

[Xn F M]

The only change I'd really like to see would be the point total. While I wouldn't complain about playing at 520 points, I'd really like to try something in the "standard range" that's a little more nonstandard. Maybe 480?

The only thing I have to say about that is that my appetite for lower point totals increases proportionally with the number of armies I'm allowed to bring. :D (Well, and okay, one more thing: what counts as "standard"?)

I don't like the draft in a tournament setting because I think it's more suited to casual play. I'm fine with theme armies (planet, general, personality, etc.) but I'm not that much of a fan of limiting builds by forcing them to exclude certain units or include others.

And I think most people regard the standard as 400-600 points, 24 hex start zone kill 'em all

I'd say 450-550 would be the standard range. You really don't see alot of 400 point tournaments anymore, and 600 is fairly uncommon. Though I know many/most people would say 400-600.

The more I think about it,the more I like the idea of a lower point total. Lower point totals usually result in smaller armies, and fewer games going to time, which is always good.

[boom]

Hey WFNB, could I suggest adding the following to one of your rules points. In the category Mistakes/Questions During Gameplay:

"Try to insure that all your dice are rolled on a flat surface. If any of your dice are "cocked" (i.e. not lying flat) or roll off the table, you must reroll all of them. (Again, your opponent can show mercy on you at his/her option.) All dice rolled shall be aggitated/shaken in some manner, either in a dice tower, cup or simply SHAKING them in your hand. Please, don't simply flop them out of your palm onto the table."

You don't have to use the all caps in shaking.;)

[warriorneedsfoodbadly]

Sounds good to me.

[Leotheanimal87]

I'm fine with last year's format. But change is always a good thing. As for new ideas maybe we can use Glyphs, capture the flag, kill the general, or maybe use Marvel characters :mrgreen:

[King of the Marro]

I like the idea of a team format, it brings an extra little challenge. I think we should rank all the people entering into 3 general categories. 1 being the better players, 2 being average, and 3 being newer players. We'd match up the 1's with the 3's and then the 2's with each other. This way we do something different, and the newer players have a better chance of winning and might learn something new. Each player would have 300-400 points to play as, and I also would vote that each team should only consist of one general.

[Leotheanimal87]

I like the idea of a team format, it brings an extra little challenge. I think we should rank all the people entering into 3 general categories. 1 being the better players, 2 being average, and 3 being newer players. We'd match up the 1's with the 3's and then the 2's with each other. This way we do something different, and the newer players have a better chance of winning and might learn something new. Each player would have 300-400 points to play as, and I also would vote that each team should only consist of one general.

Like the idea of having teams. But I see 3 problems with it. 1. How are you gonna do rankings and hand out prizes (if we do have any) to teams? 2. Are teams allowed to have 2 of the same unique figures? Like if I brought an army with Marro Warriors and my teammate also has Marro Warriors in his army? 3.Matches could take awhile to finish. I say maybe lower the army point value to 200-300 point range if we are doing teams to make it go faster.

[King of the Marro]

I like the idea of a team format, it brings an extra little challenge. I think we should rank all the people entering into 3 general categories. 1 being the better players, 2 being average, and 3 being newer players. We'd match up the 1's with the 3's and then the 2's with each other. This way we do something different, and the newer players have a better chance of winning and might learn something new. Each player would have 300-400 points to play as, and I also would vote that each team should only consist of one general.

Like the idea of having teams. But I see 3 problems with it. 1. How are you gonna do rankings and hand out prizes (if we do have any) to teams? 2. Are teams allowed to have 2 of the same unique figures? Like if I brought an army with Marro Warriors and my teammate also has Marro Warriors in his army? 3.Matches could take awhile to finish. I say maybe lower the army point value to 200-300 point range if we are doing teams to make it go faster.

1. Perhaps 2-3 people submit their idea's who know the community or we could just look at last year's rankings.
2. No, teams would have to bring extra pieces or communicate beforehand. The other thing we could do is assign teams generals so that even with no communication there could be some synergy. :? This is the one part presenting some challenge.
3. I agree with lowering the point value or we could just play by time.

[S1R_ART0R1US]

I don't mean to be a Negative Nellie, but I'm not a fan of team play and i think they would take even more time. How about a standard tournament, but you can bring treasure glyphs with your army-each treasure glyph has a predetermined cost.

[robbdaman]

Team concepts take too long unless you drop the point totals for each army down to 300 or so. This limits a lot of what people can play as a result but keeps games down on time, most hour long games would not result in total victory otherwise and still might not. We'd be better off not doing teams.

Personally I'd just stick with the basic format but change the point totals to 450-500. Use of some basic glyphs would be fine. Alternatively we could limit armies to certain amounts of squads to encourage hero play more, of course I envision 25 armies built around Q9 with that concept though. :|

[Leotheanimal87]

I like the idea of a team format, it brings an extra little challenge. I think we should rank all the people entering into 3 general categories. 1 being the better players, 2 being average, and 3 being newer players. We'd match up the 1's with the 3's and then the 2's with each other. This way we do something different, and the newer players have a better chance of winning and might learn something new. Each player would have 300-400 points to play as, and I also would vote that each team should only consist of one general.

Like the idea of having teams. But I see 3 problems with it. 1. How are you gonna do rankings and hand out prizes (if we do have any) to teams? 2. Are teams allowed to have 2 of the same unique figures? Like if I brought an army with Marro Warriors and my teammate also has Marro Warriors in his army? 3.Matches could take awhile to finish. I say maybe lower the army point value to 200-300 point range if we are doing teams to make it go faster.

1. Perhaps 2-3 people submit their idea's who know the community or we could just look at last year's rankings.
2. No, teams would have to bring extra pieces or communicate beforehand. The other thing we could do is assign teams generals so that even with no communication there could be some synergy. :? This is the one part presenting some challenge.
3. I agree with lowering the point value or we could just play by time.

Sounds good. Liking the general idea :P But again we'll see what the majority decides on what the tournament should be like.

I don't mean to be a Negative Nellie, but I'm not a fan of team play and i think they would take even more time. How about a standard tournament, but you can bring treasure glyphs with your army-each treasure glyph has a predetermined cost.

Also a great idea. But remember I think the final say on changes will be determined by everyone and WNFB. For the most part I am totally fine with last year's format, but I welcome change. Just haven't thought what we could do to mix things up.

[King of the Marro]

The team concept was just an idea. I don't care how we play, my army's pretty much built unless we do something radically different. 520's my vote for a point total if we do do a standard tourny. Another Idea we could do to determine the point total is take in everyone's vote and average it out? That might give us a unique total.

[LoneHero2008]

I'll only be bringing one army if that is ok, although I will need to know where and when it will be held. For those of you who don't know, I'm TimmyTheNerd on YouTube, so chances are those of you who follow me on YouTube will know what my army may be.

Also, if it is too far for me to travel, I'd like to know if anyone is running any carpools?

[warriorneedsfoodbadly]

The location and times will likely be the same from last year (see link at the top of the thread.)
I think the whole mixing things up is great for keeping games fresh but feel that tournaments are best left with little left to chance (glyphs) or with reliance on others (teams.)
Post-tournament play could fill all varieties hungered for.

[LoneHero2008]

Ok, that helps. I was wondering if anyone is doing a carpool or something? I'd REALLY like to go to this thing and have two armies made and ready, however I have no means of transportation.

So if anyone is heading to it and willing to make a stop at San Jacinto, please send me a PM and we can make arrangements.

[hivelord]

The location and times will likely be the same from last year (see link at the top of the thread.)
I think the whole mixing things up is great for keeping games fresh but feel that tournaments are best left with little left to chance (glyphs) or with reliance on others (teams.)
Post-tournament play could fill all varieties hungered for.

I second this reasoning. For me, since I have no means of getting to GenCon, NHSD is the one time during the year where I have the opportunity to play in a truly competitive tournament with 30 other Heroscape enthusiasts. Because of that, I want that tournament to be, for lack of a better phrase, straightforward. We have all the rest of the year to play games with unconventional rules.


However, if there is a big pull toward doing different style games we could do a classic, bracketed elimination tournament and run side-games once people get out. :shrug:

[Leotheanimal87]

The location and times will likely be the same from last year (see link at the top of the thread.)
I think the whole mixing things up is great for keeping games fresh but feel that tournaments are best left with little left to chance (glyphs) or with reliance on others (teams.)
Post-tournament play could fill all varieties hungered for.

I second this reasoning. For me, since I have no means of getting to GenCon, NHSD is the one time during the year where I have the opportunity to play in a truly competitive tournament with 30 other Heroscape enthusiasts. Because of that, I want that tournament to be, for lack of a better phrase, straightforward. We have all the rest of the year to play games with unconventional rules.


However, if there is a big pull toward doing different style games we could do a classic, bracketed elimination tournament and run side-games once people get out. :shrug:

Wouldn't bracket take forever tho?

[hivelord]

The location and times will likely be the same from last year (see link at the top of the thread.)
I think the whole mixing things up is great for keeping games fresh but feel that tournaments are best left with little left to chance (glyphs) or with reliance on others (teams.)
Post-tournament play could fill all varieties hungered for.

I second this reasoning. For me, since I have no means of getting to GenCon, NHSD is the one time during the year where I have the opportunity to play in a truly competitive tournament with 30 other Heroscape enthusiasts. Because of that, I want that tournament to be, for lack of a better phrase, straightforward. We have all the rest of the year to play games with unconventional rules.


However, if there is a big pull toward doing different style games we could do a classic, bracketed elimination tournament and run side-games once people get out. :shrug:

Wouldn't bracket take forever tho?

A 32 person bracketed tournament would take 5 rounds which is the same amount we had last year. But it really isn't my first choice. (That would be staying the same.)

[GamerHusband]

I liked the format from last year. I don't see the need to change it. Adding treasure glyphs might be interesting. The one great thing I did like about the new D & D scape was the treasure glyphs. If we make them random and say 2 on each board, it could prove for an interesting game. The only down side I can see is having to resuffle all of the glyphs after each round.

[hivelord]

I liked the format from last year. I don't see the need to change it. Adding treasure glyphs might be interesting. The one great thing I did like about the new D & D scape was the treasure glyphs. If we make them random and say 2 on each board, it could prove for an interesting game. The only down side I can see is having to resuffle all of the glyphs after each round.

I'll second this idea.

[King of the Marro]

I'm fine with the 520, I'd just vote against treasure glyphs. Anyways what's the next step if we're going with that format?

[LoneHero2008]

Are there going to be any carpools or something? I can't get there on my own and I'd be grateful to anyone willing to stop in San Jacinto and give me a ride and I might be able to pay for gas or whatever.

[King of the Marro]

So anyone here? I want to get a final agreement on the points, format, and whether there will be glyphs or not, so that I can be playtesting. I will also soon be hosting a small event to playtest/have fun around the O.C. area.

[Rÿchean]

Please make sure this event is posted in the WotC prize support thread:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32440

Event organizer also needs to PM me mailing information.

Thank you

[warriorneedsfoodbadly]

Okay,
I haven't seen strong support for any changes in the format so I'm going with it as-is but with a minor adjustment to the rolling dice rules.
Please post further comments on the new thread along with your availability so we may build up our prize support.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32450

[Xotli]

The more I think about it,the more I like the idea of a lower point total. Lower point totals usually result in smaller armies, and fewer games going to time, which is always good.

As I say, I'm good with lower point totals as long as I get to have multiple armies. Otherwise there just isn't enough figure variety for my tastes.

Hey WFNB, could I suggest adding the following to one of your rules points. In the category Mistakes/Questions During Gameplay:

"Try to insure that all your dice are rolled on a flat surface. If any of your dice are "cocked" (i.e. not lying flat) or roll off the table, you must reroll all of them. (Again, your opponent can show mercy on you at his/her option.) All dice rolled shall be aggitated/shaken in some manner, either in a dice tower, cup or simply SHAKING them in your hand. Please, don't simply flop them out of your palm onto the table."

Yes, please. Thank you.

I'm fine with last year's format. But change is always a good thing. As for new ideas maybe we can use Glyphs, capture the flag, kill the general, or maybe use Marvel characters :mrgreen:

Well, capture the flag or kill the general deviates from kill 'em all, which many people seemed to prefer (although kill the general doesn't deviate that much, but whatever).

Realistically, allowing Marvel is the absolute easiest thing to do to be different, because, if you don't wanna be different, just don't bring any Marvel. :shrug:

I like the idea of a team format, it brings an extra little challenge. I think we should rank all the people entering into 3 general categories. 1 being the better players, 2 being average, and 3 being newer players. We'd match up the 1's with the 3's and then the 2's with each other. This way we do something different, and the newer players have a better chance of winning and might learn something new. Each player would have 300-400 points to play as, and I also would vote that each team should only consist of one general.

I like the team format idea. I see it wasn't very popular though. :-/

1. How are you gonna do rankings and hand out prizes (if we do have any) to teams?

If we were going to do this (which apparently we're not), I would vote for having a different partner each game. So it's not a team record you're evaluated on, but rather your record as part of several different teams. That way, you get rewarded for how much you help your partner even if you don't win all the time.

2. Are teams allowed to have 2 of the same unique figures? Like if I brought an army with Marro Warriors and my teammate also has Marro Warriors in his army?

And that problem would be solved by having multiple armies. You and your partner get together before the match and pick the best pair-up you can make out of your two sets of armies. They'd need to be small to keep the games quick. And of course you just wouldn't be allowed to choose a pair which contained identical unique units.

Moot points all, of course, but it has some interesting concepts in it. We should file this away for a future date.

How about a standard tournament, but you can bring treasure glyphs with your army-each treasure glyph has a predetermined cost.

Like that idea too. Not sure where to get the point values from though.

I think the whole mixing things up is great for keeping games fresh but feel that tournaments are best left with little left to chance (glyphs) or with reliance on others (teams.)

Glyphs don't have to be random, of course. In fact, specifically for a tournament setting, I would definitely not vote for random glyphs for that very reason.

Okay,
I haven't seen strong support for any changes in the format so I'm going with it as-is but with a minor adjustment to the rolling dice rules.
Please post further comments on the new thread along with your availability so we may build up our prize support.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32450

Ah, bummer. I got busy there for a few days, so I missed out on the discussion. No worries though; at least last year's format does allow some variety with the multiple armies, so that's good.

[BIGJIM]

My God! That time of the year! would love to make it but that is the starting weekend that we moving!! Enjoy guys and will be waiting with excitement to see the postings on what went on!! GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!