Good Guy/Bad Guy Primer

[tcglkn]

Here is are some lists of MarvelScape Units sorted into two groups, the Good Guys and the Bad Guys. Perfect for throwing together some quick Good VS Evil Armies.

Units in Red are the Official Units.

Alphabetically:

Good Guys:
The 5th Precinct Beat Cops (65 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28615)
Alfred Pennyworth (60 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30311)
Angel (Warren Worthington III) (90 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27876)
Batman (Bruce Wayne) (200 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596)
Batman (Terry McGinnis) (150 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33040)
Beast (Hank McCoy) (170 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27877)
Black Canary (Dinah Lance) (190 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28607)
Captain America (220 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9712)
Civilians (45 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=967599)
Colossus (Piotr Rasputin) (260 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29892)
Commissioner Gordon (James Gordon)(90 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32118)
Creeper (Jack Ryder) (125 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32589)
Cyclops (Scott Summers) (190 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27878)
Daredevil (Matt Murdock)(180 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30297)
Echo (Maya Lopez)(130 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33610)Flash (Barry Allen) (250 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29584)
Green Arrow (Connor Hawke) (130 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33502)
Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) (150 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28592)
Green Construct Mech (120 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30372)
Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)(320 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1147514#post1147514)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (350 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29548)
Green Lantern (John Stewart)(340 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32101)
Green Lantern (Kilowog) (310 Points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32047)
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)(300 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1085018#post1085018)
Hawkgirl (Shayera Hol) (225 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28584)
Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) (170 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29860)
Iceman (Bobby Drake) (150 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27879)
Iron Man (240 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9715)
Jean Grey (180 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27880)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) (300 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1056477)
Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (140 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29557)
Plastic Man (Eel O'Brian) (145 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29581)
Professor X (Charles Xavier) (220 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=967597)
Robin (Tim Drake) (120 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1106410)
SHIELD Agents (110 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32608)
SHIELD Sniper (40 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30370)
SHIELD Spotter (25 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30384)
Silver Surfer (320 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9720)
Spider-Girl (May Parker) (140) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32495)
Spider-Man (160 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9716)
Superman (Kal-El) (400 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28589)
Swamp Thing (Alec Holland) (235 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31872)
Thor (Thor Odinson) (430 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1050849)
Wolverine (James Howlett) (280 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29554)
Wonder Woman (Diana Prince) (300 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29567)

Grey Area:
Bob, Agent of HYDRA (25 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31303)
Catwoman (Selina Kyle) (145 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28593)
Deadpool (Wade Wilson) (285 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29561)
The Incredible Hulk (370 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9718)
Jonah Hex (130 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30986)
Magneto (Erik Lehnsherr) (310 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27883)
Punisher (Frank Castle)(180 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1084689#post1084689)
Venom (150 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9717)

Bad Guys:
Abomination (320 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9719)
Anti-Monitor (1600 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32578)
Black Mask (Roman Sionis) (100 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312)
Blob (Fred Dukes) (165 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27948)
Bullseye (Lester ???)(175 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102437#post1102437)
Count Vertigo (Werner Vertigo) (160 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28585)
Darkseid (Uxas) (380 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28591)
Deathstroke (Slade Wilson) (280 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32221)
Doctor Doom (245 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9713)
Doomsday (390 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29555)
Elektra (Elektra Natchios)(170 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32647)
Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) (230 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31354)
Hand Ninja (85 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31371)
Harley Quinn (Harleen Quinzel) (130 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30305)
HYDRA Agents (80 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31085)
Joker (?) (190 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=996979)
Lex Luthor (100 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547)
Mystique (Raven Darkholme) (165 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967605)
Penguin (Oswald Cobblepot) (120 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102875)
Poison Ivy (Pamela Isley) (165 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1055278)
Pyro (St. John Allerdyce) (120 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=967607)
Red Skull (190 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9710)
The Riddler (Edward Nashton) (140 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1056665)
Sentinel (160 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27888)
Shadow Thief (70 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33464)
Sinestro Corps Soldier (110 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30921)
Solomon Grundy (Cyrus Gold) (290points)DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28599)
The Street Thugs (75 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28629)
Thanos (360 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9711)
Toad (Mortimer Toynbee) (95 points) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27887)
Two-Face (Harvey Dent) (130 points)DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586)
Yellow Lantern (Arkillo) (310 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30217)
Yellow Lantern (Thaal Sinestro)(330 points) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30301)

[tcglkn]

By Point Cost:

Good Guys:
(25 points) SHIELD Spotter MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30384)
(40 points) SHIELD Sniper MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30370)
(45 points) Civilians MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=967599)
(60 points) Alfred Pennyworth DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30311)
(65 points) The 5th Precinct Beat Cops DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28615)
(90 points) Angel (Warren Worthington III) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27876)
(90 points) Commissioner Gordon (James Gordon) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32118)
(110 points) SHIELD Agents MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32608)
(120 points) Green Construct Mech DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30372)
(120 points) Robin (Tim Drake) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1106410)
(125 points) Creeper (Jack Ryder) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32589)
(130 points) Echo (Maya Lopez) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33610)
(130 points) Green Arrow (Connor Hawke) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33502)
(140 points) Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29557)
(140 points) Spider-Girl (May Parker) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32495)
(145 points) Plastic Man (Eel O'Brian) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29581)
(150 points) Batman (Terry McGinnis) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33040)
(150 points) Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28592)
(150 points) Iceman (Bobby Drake) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27879)
(160 points) Spider-Man MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9716)
(170 points) Beast (Hank McCoy) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27877)
(170 points) Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29860)
(180 points) Daredevil (Matt Murdock) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30297)
(180 points) Jean Grey MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27880)
(190 points) Black Canary (Dinah Lance) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28607)
(190 points) Cyclops (Scott Summers) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27878)
(200 points) Batman (Bruce Wayne) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596)
(220 points) Captain America MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9712)
(220 points) Professor X (Charles Xavier) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=967597)
(225 points) Hawkgirl (Shayera Hol) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28584)
(235 points) Swamp Thing (Alec Holland) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31872)
(240 points) Iron Man MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9715)
(250 points) Flash (Barry Allen) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29584)
(260 points) Colossus (Piotr Rasputin) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29892)
(280 points) Wolverine (James Howlett) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29554)
(300 points) Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1085018#post1085018)
(300 points) Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1056477)
(300 points) Wonder Woman (Diana Prince) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29567)
(310 Points) Green Lantern (Kilowog) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32047)
(320 points) Green Lantern (Guy Gardner) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1147514#post1147514)
(320 points) Silver Surfer MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9720)
(340 points) Green Lantern (John Stewart) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32101)
(350 points) Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29548)
(400 points) Superman (Kal-El) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28589)
(430 points) Thor (Thor Odinson) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1050849)

Grey Area:
(25 points) Bob, Agent of HYDRA MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31303)
(130 points) Jonah Hex DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30986)
(145 points) Catwoman (Selina Kyle) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28593)
(150 points) Venom MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9717)
(180 points) Punisher (Frank Castle)MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1084689#post1084689)
(285 points) Deadpool (Wade Wilson) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29561)
(310 points) Magneto (Erik Lehnsherr) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27883)
(370 points) The Incredible Hulk MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9718)

Bad Guys:
(70 points) Shadow Thief DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33464)
(75 points) The Street Thugs DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28629)
(80 points) HYDRA Agents MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31085)
(85 points) Hand Ninjas MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31371)
(95 points) Toad (Mortimer Toynbee) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27887)
(100 points) Black Mask (Roman Sionis) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312)
(100 points) Lex Luthor DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547)
(110 points) Sinestro Corps Soldier DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30921)
(120 points) Penguin (Oswald Cobblepot) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102875)
(120 points) Pyro (St. John Allerdyce) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=967607)
(130 points) Harley Quinn (Harleen Quinzel) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30305)
(130 points) Two-Face (Harvey Dent) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586)
(140 points) The Riddler (Edward Nashton) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1056665)
(160 points) Count Vertigo (Werner Vertigo) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28585)
(160 points) Sentinel MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27888)
(165 points) Blob (Fred Dukes) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27948)
(165 points) Mystique (Raven Darkholme) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967605)
(165 points) Poison Ivy (Pamela Isley) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1055278)
(170 points) Elektra (Elektra Natchios) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32647)
(175 points) Bullseye (Lester ???) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102437#post1102437)
(190 points) Joker (?) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=996979)
(190 points) Red Skull MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9710)
(230 points) Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31354)
(245 points) Doctor Doom MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9713)
(280 points) Deathstroke (Slade Wilson) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32221)
(290 points) Solomon Grundy (Cyrus Gold) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28599)
(310 points) Yellow Lantern (Arkillo) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30217)
(320 points) Abomination MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9719)
(330 points) Yellow Lantern (Thaal Sinestro) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30301)
(360 points) Thanos MARVEL (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9711)
(380 points) Darkseid (Uxas) DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28591)
(390 points) Doomsday DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29555)
(1600 points) Anti-Monitor DC (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32578)

[johnny139]

I'm not too sure on some. Venom is listed as a "Vigilante" which, to me, seems to point more toward his "Lethal Protector" phase as an anti-hero. Catwoman is as much a hero as a villain, though, to be fair, the C3G interpretation seems to be more villainous. Hulk seems to tread the line, but he is generally the PROTAGONIST, if not the hero, so, I'd put him there.

Deadpool I'm not really comfortable putting in either category, to be honest.

[Griffin]

Thanks, this is also very cool, but why create a thread when Bats asked for a post in the Books Of thread? Either way though, very cool. :up: +rep worthy if I am able.

[tcglkn]

Thanks, this is also very cool, but why create a thread when Bats asked for a post in the Books Of thread? Either way though, very cool. :up: +rep worthy if I am able.

So that if people made comments and updates, they wouldn't clog up the Book thread.

[tcglkn]

Added sorting by point cost!

[IAmBatman]

I thought you were going to add a HYBRID or GRAY AREA category?
I see several candidates for that:

Bob
Deadpool
Incredible Hulk
Jonah Hex
Catwoman
Harley Quinn
Magneto
Venom

[tcglkn]

Will do! In the morning I will add those and anyone else you think would fit into that category.

[tcglkn]

Added the Grey area section. Please say something if any of the links are broken, if anyone is missing, or if I need to move someone. Thanks

[johnny139]

Is Harley really in a grey area? She's always seemed straightforwardly "evil" to me, in that she never really helps the good guys.

Well, there was that one episode of BTAS, but that's an outlier.

[Griffin]

Is Harley really in a grey area? She's always seemed straightforwardly "evil" to me, in that she never really helps the good guys.

Well, there was that one episode of BTAS, but that's an outlier.
I don't see her as gray either. The chick is crazy obsessed with impressing Joker.... enough said. :shock:

[IAmBatman]

She's a bit of a touchy one, but she's free from jail and living as a legal citizen right now and mostly doing good stuff in Gotham City Sirens right now.

[Lord Pyre]

She's a bit of a touchy one, but she's free from jail and living as a legal citizen right now and mostly doing good stuff in Gotham City Sirens right now.

Really? I thought that whenever she was "reformed," seeing a glimpse of Mistah J sent her right back to her nutty state. :p

And by that logic, shouldn't Penguin and Riddler now be good guys? They're all classic villains, I think that no matter what's going on in the comics at this one point in time, if you ask any dude off the street, they'd tell you that they're villains. :p

[IAmBatman]

Riddler has amnesia now after 70 years of being an undeniable villain. Penguin is a vicious criminal as always - they just can't pin anything on him.
Harley, outside of Joker's influence, is someone Batman doesn't mind seeing on the streets.
I don't mind her staying with the villains, though. I could just see some gray there.

[tcglkn]

Riddler has amnesia now after 70 years of being an undeniable villain. Penguin is a vicious criminal as always - they just can't pin anything on him.
Harley, outside of Joker's influence, is someone Batman doesn't mind seeing on the streets.
I don't mind her staying with the villains, though. I could just see some gray there.

I want the over all feel of a character to be what they get judged by. And I don't know much about Harley to know where she should be placed. I agree with your feelings on the rest of those units.

[johnny139]

Hasn't Riddler been in a vaguely reformed state for a while now? Like, at least ten years, I think. Not quite a "good guy," but not doing anything wrong, either. Still, classic villain, no doubt.

[IAmBatman]

Harley was an iffy one for me to put on that list, and she's probably only there for me because I've been reading a lot of Gotham Sirens. Iconically, I think she's best placed in Villains for most people, so I'd move her back there.

[IAmBatman]

Hasn't Riddler been in a vaguely reformed state for a while now? Like, at least ten years, I think. Not quite a "good guy," but not doing anything wrong, either. Still, classic villain, no doubt.

No - not that long at all. Maybe since a little bit after Hush? (But that came out more recently than 2000). And he's not reformed, he has amnesia, and he's still a completely self-centered brainiac. He just doesn't break laws right now. But, recently, his memory has been coming back more and more, so you know it's only a matter of time before he's full blown villain again.
They've done similar things in the past with Two-Face, where he's been "reformed" dozens of times, but it never takes.
Riddler is a villain, through and through.

[tcglkn]

Well Harley has been moved back to the bad guys. I want to keep with the overall feel of a character over time as opposed to just the current feel. I'm not that well versed in all my comics, and she is a character I am only vaguely familiar with. Thanks for all the help and support guys. I will try to keep this updated with all the new releases, but if I miss an Ally exclusive please post it.

[Porkins]

Silver Surfer should not be in the Bad Guys section...unless you know something I don't know. I don't read the comics much, I just like the comic book characters...so maybe there is something I don't know about him. But his personality is "Valiant" which leads me to believe that it must be a mistake.

[IAmBatman]

I must've missed that ... yeah, seriously, Surfer is a Hero!

[johnny139]

This Surfer is a hero - he's Valiant - but a lot like Venom, that's just the angle of the character the designers used. The Silver Surfer was originally a Herald of Galactus, and was sent to Earth to prepare for it's complete destruction. Which is pretty much as evil as you can get.

[IAmBatman]

Except he really didn't have any choice ... Even then I wouldn't qualify him as "evil" strictly speaking.

[johnny139]

Well, "evil" is a bit much, I suppose, since Galactus is a force of nature more than a real negative force. But if "destroying the Earth" doesn't make you a villain, I'm not sure we could really justify half these people, y'know? :p

[Balantai]

Don't shoot the messenger? :confused:

[IAmBatman]

Yep, for real! :-P Silver Surfer =/= Galactus. And, as Johnny points out, even Galactus has some gray area (though I'd still put him as a villain).

[tcglkn]

I moved Silver Surfer to Grey Area. So he isn't a villain, but he didn't exactly try to save the world, or regularly save people. But being a messager doesn't make someone a Bad Guy. Nice catch guys.

[lefton4ya]

How about listing Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Evil, etc. ;) Just Kidding - I just learned about those recently on the boards, but it would be hard to place Silver Surfer on that list (Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral). I wonder if anyone ever did a official heroscape breakdown by D&D alignment. Doing a quick search did find a thread relevant to this thread, The official alignment thread! (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=18117) (with proposed official marvel expansion) resulted in Punisher, Black Panther, Hulk, and Silver Surfer being only slightly good.

[Balantai]

That would be fun. It's been a while since I used D&D alignments. :D

Silver Surfer = Lawful Neutral
He's bound by the laws of Galactus and his will is neither good nor evil. He simply obeys.

[IAmBatman]

Only early in his career, though! Since breaking free of Galactus' influence, he's been pure hero ... and the only reason he obeyed Galactus to begin with is he made a sacrifice to save his homeworld and then got brainwashed on top of it! :-P
I guess I see him as a hero through and through.

[tcglkn]

Only early in his career, though! Since breaking free of Galactus' influence, he's been pure hero ... and the only reason he obeyed Galactus to begin with is he made a sacrifice to save his homeworld and then got brainwashed on top of it! :-P
I guess I see him as a hero through and through.

I haven't read any comics with Silver Surfer as a hero. Any sources for your outrageous claim? :p

[IAmBatman]

He's always working to save the universe! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Surfer_%28comics%29#Freedom_From_Exile)

[tcglkn]

He's always working to save the universe! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Surfer_%28comics%29#Freedom_From_Exile)

Good enough. Silver Surfer is now a Good Guy.

[IAmBatman]

:woot:

[tcglkn]

:woot:

:roll::popcorn:

[quozl]

I recently got a Guardians of the Galaxy comic where Silver Surfer helps them fight Galactus but then stops them from finishing him off and becomes his herald again as he's a "natural part of the universe" or something like that.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

For the record, Norrin Radd was a benevolent scientist betrothed to the Princess Shalla-Bal on his home planet of Zenn-La when the World Devourer, Galactus appeared and threatened to destroy all life on Zenn-La by converting the planet to energy. Risking his life and love, Norrin Radd chose to oppose Galactus and actually drew the attention of the World-Devourer. Galactus pledged to spare his planet and by association, his beloved Shalla-Bal, if Norrin would serve him as his Herald. Norrin agreed and was changed by the amazing Power Cosmic wielded by Galactus into the Silver Surfer, for whom he would seek out suitable planets for his consumption. The Silver Surfer tried to stear Galactus to uninhabited planets until he came upon Earth. The Surfer was moved by the plight of the people of Earth and chose to turn on his master Galactus and side with the Earthlings, the Fantastic Four, in opposing Galactus. A ploy which would have failed if Reed Richards had not stolen the Weapon, the Ultimate Nullifier, which would destroy the Universe and Galactus with it. Galactus would then punish the Silver Surfer by erecting an Invisible barrier around the Earth which the Silver Surfer was unable to cross, so the Silver Surfer was exiled to Earth and could not go to Zenn-La to check on his beloved Shalla-Bal.

That is the Silver Surfer's story (according to Spidey ;) )

[IAmBatman]

See? Totally a hero.

[johnny139]

Good guy diametrically opposed to the heroes, at least. Clearly a GOOD PERSON, but still a villain in his first appearance by virtue of the fact he was trying to destroy the Earth. Of course, his introduction was his turn to heroism, and since then he's turned into Caine from Kung Fu. Only in SPACE!

[tcglkn]

Updated with Swamp Thing and Kilowog (Both added to the Good Guys)

[Lord Pyre]

Question... Is Creeper a good guy or bad guy?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

As a member of the Outsiders, I say good guy.

[tcglkn]

I need to add Creeper, Spider-Girl and Batman. All to the good guys I guess.

EDIT: And Anti-Monitor to the bad guys

[tcglkn]

Added Creeper, Spider-Girl, and Batman!

EDIT: Just realized I never added Anti-Monitor or Deathstroke.

Where should I put Deathstroke?

[johnny139]

Bad Guy. I can't recall any point where Deathstroke has been a hero.

[tcglkn]

Ok sounds good, I don't know that guy at all.

[johnny139]

I think a name like "Deathstroke the Terminator" should probably have given you a hint, though. :p

[tcglkn]

I just knew him as Deathstroke, and though he was called that cause he got saved at the stroke of death or something like that.

Anyways, updated.

[Chardar]

I'd think you could move Harvey Dent to the grey area. Everything he does is based on a coin flip. Good or bad, he carries out the result. It doesn't get much more "grey" than that.

[IAmBatman]

He's really been portrayed as a villain 90% of the time, though.

[tcglkn]

He's really been portrayed as a villain 90% of the time, though.

:word: and that's exactly what most people think of him as, a villian.

[Devil's Advocate]

Why are there links in the Good Guy/Bad Guy Primer that do not work? (Martian Manhunter, Riddler, etc)

[Griffin]

I don't know. Someone should do something about that. ;)

[tcglkn]

Ok which links exactly do not work? I will fix them.

[Griffin]

I am guessing Satan's Lawyer isn't going to exactly do the work for you, just alert you to the problem. ;)

[Devil's Advocate]

Martian Manhunter and Riddler were the only 2 I noticed but I did not click on all of them.

[tcglkn]

Thanks I'll update it later. On my phone now.

[tcglkn]

Updated with Wave 4, Commissioner Gordon, Green Arrow, and Shadow Thief.

Put Punisher and Bullseye in the Grey Area and Echo in the Good Guys. Those were the only ones I wasn't sure about.

[johnny139]

Bullseye is 100% evil, no doubt about it. And while Punisher is definitely grey in methods, I'd say he's definitely good in alignment.

No idea on Echo, though.

[GreyOwl]

Echo is good. The only time she acted otherwise was when she attacked Daredevil, but that was mainly because Kingpin had essentially brainwashed her into thinking he was good and Daredevil was bad. So in effect, she still thought she was being good.

[tcglkn]

Ok so I'll probably leave Punisher grey and move Bullseye to bad. Anything else I missed?

[IAmBatman]

Punisher is the definition of grey. Definitely the right placement for him there.

[tcglkn]

Sweet then I'm all caught up until the Fan4 set or the next exclusive.