What makes a Print-n-Play game good?

[hextr1p]

There are many free print-n-play games available online. Some are good... others just suck. Some have great bits, others have very lack-luster bits. So, what I want to know is this:

Aside from gameplay, what makes print-n-play game good?

and...

What would help make people want to take the time to print and cut the components out?

[LilNewbie]

Fills a niche in the market that hasn't been explored or makes a more enjoyable game than what has been already published.

Also some p-n-p games can be played using items that a person may already have which saves time and money.

Newb.

[Malechi]

For me at least, beyond well done rules to play potential, is the detail put into the parts. I am in the process of reworking the parts to a game for one of the members here. One of who's playtesters approached me for graphics help on behalf of the game designer. Another example is Lord Raidor's version of the Werewolf/Mafia game. His is well put together with an interesting twist to the game as well as graphics that fit the theme. There are many versions of the Werewolf/Mafia game out there, but very few of them are worth the time and ink to actually print. Good graphics makes a print and play worth the effort.

[hextr1p]

Good graphics makes a print and play worth the effort.
Would you say that good graphics could also be viewed as a deterrent? In that often times the better the graphics, the more ink one must use to print the game's components. Especially when talking about a full color board, much like Hackwerk's "Zombie Plague" game board (as one example of many).

Or is quality so enticing to the interested viewer that he/she wouldn't want to print the game?

[LilNewbie]

Zombie Plague is a excellent example of a quality p-n-p game! There are several zombie games but for some reason ZP just filled a niche for a game that reproduces the modern zombie movie. The rules are simple and you can use cutouts, cardboard stand-ups or even figures (D&D zombies or the newer Horrorclix zombie figures). The original Map was the only issue I had since it looked nice enough it needed to be in color but a small trip to Kinko's and that was fixed. I also mounted the cards onto standard playing cards and put them in sleeves (cheap and easy to do.)

Nice graphics are a plus for any game but it's not the only reason for downloading and printing a p-n-p game. Gameplay is one reason and theme is another.

Newb.

[Jim]

Are there any links to get any of the aforementioned PnP games? :D

Jim

[LilNewbie]

Are there any links to get any of the aforementioned PnP games? :D

Jim

Zombie Plague:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/7514

Newb.

[hextr1p]

The original Map was the only issue I had since it looked nice enough it needed to be in color but a small trip to Kinko's and that was fixed. I also mounted the cards onto standard playing cards and put them in sleeves (cheap and easy to do.)

Okay, so you answered another question of mine: would you be willing to take the graphic files to a print vendor? Obviously, not everyone would think to do this. However, as I mentioned earlier, doing this would help to cut back on the $40+ dollars it would take to replace your printer's ink cartidges!

That said, is having to cut a lot of components out a problem? Using Zombie Plague as another example, you have to cut the map out, the cards out, and in some instances, the cardboard stand-up figures. Is too much 'arts & crafts' to put the game together a problem? Or would it also matter how difficult said cutting and pasting is?

Thanks for everyone's input, by the way! VERY helpful! :D

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Are there any links to get any of the aforementioned PnP games? :D

Jim

Zombie Plague:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/7514

Newb.

My highest recommendation for a print and play game! Jim we could possibly do Zombie Plague if we game this weekend!

And I really want to shed light on another print and play game, but it's a total secret for now. I'm bursting to let you all in, but the creator's not yet ready. :D

[hextr1p]

Are there any links to get any of the aforementioned PnP games? :D

Jim

Jim, also check out this GeekList from BGG.com:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/15723

Lists many free PnP games that receive high marks from BGG.com members.

[Jim]

I'll have to try some of these.

And I think I would be more likely to cut and assemble if the cutting process wasn't excessively complicated.

Jim

[hextr1p]

And I think I would be more likely to cut and assemble if the cutting process wasn't excessively complicated.
So the straighter the line to cut, the better, right? ;)

[LilNewbie]

The original Map was the only issue I had since it looked nice enough it needed to be in color but a small trip to Kinko's and that was fixed. I also mounted the cards onto standard playing cards and put them in sleeves (cheap and easy to do.)

Okay, so you answered another question of mine: would you be willing to take the graphic files to a print vendor? Obviously, not everyone would think to do this. However, as I mentioned earlier, doing this would help to cut back on the $40+ dollars it would take to replace your printer's ink cartidges!

That said, is having to cut a lot of components out a problem? Using Zombie Plague as another example, you have to cut the map out, the cards out, and in some instances, the cardboard stand-up figures. Is too much 'arts & crafts' to put the game together a problem? Or would it also matter how difficult said cutting and pasting is?

Thanks for everyone's input, by the way! VERY helpful! :D

Glad to help! If I want to play the game then taking time to prep the game is part of the fun. That being said, I would think twice about downloading a p-n-p if it had too many things to prep. It is a delicate balance but this is coming from a guy who has glued hundreds of Space Marine (6mm) figures to bases to play the game but that game (pre-Epic 40K) was a blast and very enjoyable. In other words, the payoff for the work in setting up the game has to be worth the effort (which really depends on the person.)

Newb.

[Jim]

And I think I would be more likely to cut and assemble if the cutting process wasn't excessively complicated.
So the straighter the line to cut, the better, right? ;)

Not so much straighter, as much as "not so curvy." Straight is fine, curves are OK, but cutting out the equivilent of a Spirograph drawing would really suck.

Jim

[hextr1p]

In other words, the payoff for the work in setting up the game has to be worth the effort...
Well said, and definitely noted.

... but cutting out the equivilent of a Spirograph drawing would really suck.
Well... there goes my PnP game idea! GAH!!

;)

[Nooblar]

Also, good graphics=/=lots of ink. I compulsively save online art to my computer for use in rpg games, and some of my favorites are just line drawings.

I agree that cutting curves is OK, just don't make us cut out individual fingers of each character card, or all the blades of grass on a stand-up paper lawn ;) Again the issue here is not how good it looks, but how *busy* it is.

Good luck hex!

[Grungebob]

I am a fan of downloadable print and play games. Heck I have done a couple. One thing I hate is ink intensive components. Believe me it can get quite expensive. I am to the point where I don't much care about the looks and I just want quick and easy game play and construction. I have gone total bare bones with my games. My second game "Cave Raiders" is VERY stripped down. I use a paper cutter to do most of the cutting so straight lines and shared cutting lines are a must. If you are going to have 9 cards on a page make sure they are all sharing edges with each other.

[Malechi]

There I am just the opposite of Grungebob, I literally designed us out of Realm of Heroes (well that, and the sheer number of cards required)! Simply having "useable" pieces doesn't work for me unless it is in game test mode. If I am going to take the time and money to print, cut and play the game the final product better be worth it. I do, however as Lilnewbie does, print at Kinkos. Color copies on their X-100 cardstock enbd up with the look and feel of most CCGs. Therefore ink cost works the opposite for me than those that print at home. Whether it is color intensive or not makes no difference in cost.

As for Grungebob's "shared cutting lines are a must", here again we disagree. To me the must is not on ease of cutting but use in playing. If the game has cards the cards must be identical on the back as to not have the cards "marked". Due to the nature of printers when creating two sides to a card whether printing double sided (preferred for true card feel) or gluing two halves the inside of the card must be within the "border" of the back of the card. This is much more important to play than ease of cutting.

Are there any links to get any of the aforementioned PnP games? :D

Jim

Jim, also check out this GeekList from BGG.com:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/15723

Lists many free PnP games that receive high marks from BGG.com members.

Here a some Print and Play game websites from which I have done just that to at least one of their games:

http://dwarfstar.brainiac.com/ (retail Microgames made availabe by the manufacturer now free)

http://www.thalcos.com/house.htm

http://www.biglittlegames.com/

http://www.battleplay.com/

[hextr1p]

GBob, thanks for your thoughts on this. It was good to hear from someone who's opinion represents the opposite of what had been posted so far.

Malechi, I hear what you're saying about the components being playable. Thus, I need to set up the cards in such a way that is not only playable and pleasing to the eye, as well as prepare the composition of the files produced for folks who aren't as adept in the 'arts & crafts' department. Meaning clear and precise cut lines and crop marks. Possibly even have a tutorial on how to make certain items for those completely clueless.

Regarding having items printed elsewhere (Kinkos was mentioned), would you be interested if the components for the game were printed on one large poster sized sheet? CafePress.com has a poster option. I was considering setting up a large sheet to hold the game board, counters, cards, etc. True, you'd still have to cut out the items, but you'd have them in full color on nice paper at a decent price ( $18 ).

What about that option?

[InfinityMax]

If I'm going to do print and play, I'm with Malechi - I want it flashy. I'm not just a gameplay wonk. I like 'em pretty.

I don't download games very often. I may need to check out this zombie game, but usually I can get what I want from a boxed board game. The one time I couldn't find what I wanted - a solo dungeon crawl game - I made my own.

www.drake-studios.com/into-the-dark.zip

(By the way, if anyone plays this, I would be delighted to know what you think.)

[hextr1p]

Thanks for chiming in, I-Max. I think I am leaning towards 'flashy'. Though certain components can be dumbed down a little visually, components pleasing to the eye certainly help promote the theme of a game. Especially for some players who are lacking in the imagination department.

Visually, I'm thinking something like this...

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10027/Test_Room2_Hex.jpg

Just a test image. And no, this is not going to be a tile laying game like ZOMBIES!!! or the infamous Dark, Darker, Darkest.

[Cavalier]

Thanks for chiming in, I-Max. I think I am leaning towards 'flashy'. Though certain components can be dumbed down a little visually, components pleasing to the eye certainly help promote the theme of a game. Especially for some players who are lacking in the imagination department.

Visually, I'm thinking something like this...

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10027/Test_Room2_Hex.jpg

Just a test image. And no, this is not going to be a tile laying game like ZOMBIES!!! or the infamous Dark, Darker, Darkest.

OK, I love the lighting effects from the windows. Now, that is eye candy!

[hextr1p]

OK, I love the lighting effects from the windows. Now, that is eye candy!
The window is on the bottom. However, the left and top areas are actually doors. I need to tweak the transition from room to room, as not all will have such a luminous effect. The doors will also appear more open than they do now, meaning there won't be a shadow near the edge... as there won't be an 'edge' being that this is going to be a game board set-up.

Lighting effects aside, what do you think of the rest of it?

[LilNewbie]

Very cool! The idea of doing seperate rooms that can be rearranged every game gives a lot of replayability to a game and means coming back to it more often. I like what you have so far and if you keep the squares a little bit bigger than 1" (maybe 1.25") people can use WizKids figure without rebasing them. Just a thought. Dang, now I can't wait to see what you come up with and IMax, I'll definitely download your game and take a look at it.

Newb.

[hextr1p]

Newb, I agree that tiles would be cool, and would add to the 'suspense' of the game. However, as I was brainstorming this idea, I came across this game in production: LINK (http://users.pandora.be/ausloosd/darkdarker/). A zombie game with a map tile laying mechanic. Needless to say, I'd look much the imitator should my game have the same mechanic. Heh... especially since my artwork looks somewhat similiar.

[Cavalier]

I think that the layout looks amazing so far!

So, what significance do the litle squares and trinangle have in the game? Or can you not tell us yet?:unsure:

[Malechi]

Have you thought about a HeroQuest Multi-use Board angle instead of the Warhammer Quest Tile-laying angle? Running through an unknown mansion followed by zombies not knowing where all the doors are and/or if they're locked or not could create a very apprehensive enviroment. Plus, like HeroQuest makes the map making much easier. Then having overlay tiles for special rooms such as the laboratory, torture room, etc. are the obvious addition ...

[LilNewbie]

Square=Rough Terrain
Triangle=Comfy Chair. :D

Newb.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

H3x, so you're making a PnP Zombie game? Oh man, it looks good so far! I'd be more than willing to try it out when it's ready.
The trial room looks great.

[hextr1p]

So, what significance do the litle squares and trinangle have in the game? Or can you not tell us yet?
The icons (which need a little more work) represent game board constants. Meaning regardless of the scenario, that square will always be: triangle = elevated, circle = searchable, square = elevated & searchable, X = impassable. The board is going to work with a coordinate system. So for scenario 1, square D-11 might have an effect, where as in scenario 2, the square would be safe. Also, the player controlling the zombie side of things will be able to designate certain squares at the beginning of the game to have different effects. So this will help add to the replayability of the game, as well as the suspense for the human players.

Then having overlay tiles for special rooms such as the laboratory, torture room, etc. are the obvious addition ...
While I'm not familiar with the HeroQuest game (blasphemy, I know), I see what you're saying. I was actually considering something similiar to this for an expansion set of sorts. Being a summer camp, the interior of the cabins on the main board would not be visible until players found keys to open the individual cabins up. Than, the interior tile would be laid onto the map to reveal the interior. Early brainstorming, and I shouldn't get ahead of myself considering I still need to organize the rules! Heh... but once I have the base rules established, I'll be able to play around more with future possibilities.

[hextr1p]

H3x, so you're making a PnP Zombie game? Oh man, it looks good so far! I'd be more than willing to try it out when it's ready.
The trial room looks great.
Yeah. I'm basing the core rules on the game I mentioned earlier, "Zombie Plague". I do really like that game, but after a while, I found myself wanting more. The creators of the game stated in their rules that they are more than fine with tweaks and game adjustments so long as you give respect where respect is due. And I'm not planning on trying to get the game published.

Then I saw games with other elements I liked that I thought would work well, and then I came up with other mechanics I thought would be fun... and then it just became a jumbled mess in a note book... heh... However, I do know how I want the game to be played, how the different components work, etc. I just need to organize all my notes and set aside some time to write and refine the rules. I will keep you in mind once I get close to a playtesting type phase. However, this won't be for a while yet.

[Point Blanks]

I would love to help playtest when you get everything in order.

[LilNewbie]

*raises hand for playtesting consideration.

:D

Newb.

[hextr1p]

When I get to that point, I'll definitely keep you all in mind. However, I'll need some folks to look over the rules when I get them written to be sure they read well, or if there is anything obvious missing from them.