Project Pokemon Finalization Thread (Cerulean City added)

[White Knight]

Welcome to the Finalization Thread
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bxYrvd_3_PI/SdouM2ku2_I/AAAAAAAAAAM/VFrVfqefHc4/S660/pokemon-1.jpg

for Project Pokémon!

(General discussion about Project Pokémon occurs here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29851).)

Project Pokémon Trainer Cards here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34274).
Project Pokémon Playtesting Cards and thread here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33123).
- Kangaskhan
- Bulbasaur
- Dratini
- Sandslash
- Wartortle
- Mankey
- Lapras
- Parasect
- Ivysaur
- Charizard
- Pidgeotto
- Blastoise
- Dragonair
- Jynx
- Primeape
- Kadabra
- Haunter
- Onix
- Venusaur

Project Pokémon Scenarios here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34298).
Project Pokémon Design Thread here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30243).
Project Pokémon Glyphs and Items here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34275) and here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1343779&postcount=43).



Goals of the Finalization Thread

This thread provides the last opportunity for Trainers and Allies to review and give final approval to Pokemon that have passed playtesting. We will also discuss final card aesthetics including the Pokemon picture, Pokemon background, and overall layout of the abilities text.


Rules of the Finalization Thread

"The most important rule to remember is to please keep things polite. We are all working toward the same goal. Although we will not always agree with one another, all we ask if that you be polite about the way you express your opinions. If you cannot express your opinion nicely simply do not comment. If you find fault with another person's conduct, PM another core group member or myself." -Wulfhunter667


Rules

1) Card designers (and anyone else) can suggest a Pokemon picture and/or background for the Pokemon.
2) The Art Department will be responsible for incorporating all changes to the cards.
3) Votes will be called for when needed.
4) After a final vote on a card, it will move to the Project Pokemon Display Thread.
5) Only one card will be in Finalization at a time.

FINALIZED CARDS

Charmander
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/CHARMANDER.png

Pikachu
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/PIKACHU.png

Pidgey
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/PIDGEY.png

Magnemite
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/MAGNEMITE.png

SQUIRTLE
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/SQUIRTLE.png

SANDSHREW
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/SANDSHREW.png

ABRA
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/ABRA.png

SCYTHER
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/SCYTHER.png

CHARMELEON
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/CHARMELEON.png

GASTLY
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/GASTLY-1.png

PARAS
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/aschlauch/Pokemon%20Master%20Set/PARAS.png

CURRENTLY IN FINALIZATION

(Coming Soon--waiting on Kangaskhan and Bulbasaur in playtesting)


PROJECT POKEMON RULEBOOK--Draft #1
I tried to collect all the rules we've generated for Pokemon battles and compile them into a single rulebook. It is still just a draft and needs lots of reviewing.

The Link is here:
Project Pokemon Rulebook - Draft #3 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3245)

http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//cover_1f9.jpg

Viridian Forest Expansion Set:
http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//viridian%20forest%20expansion_4l7.png
Viridian Forest Expansion Set (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3674)

The set includes the Viridian Forest Scenario for Project Pokemon and Heroscape cards for Caterpie, Metapod, Butterfree, Weedle, Kakuna, and Beedrill.


PROJECT POKEMON MSE FILES
Create your own Pokemon Heroscape cards!

Below are the links to the Project Pokemon MSE files. After downloading and unzipping the files, following the directions in the ReadMe file. You'll need to install MSE here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25594) first before installing the Pokemon card files.

Project Pokemon Card Blanks 1 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3002)
Project Pokemon Card Blanks 2 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2922)
Project Pokemon Card Blanks 3 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2923)
Project Pokemon Card Blanks 4 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2924)
Project Pokemon Card Blanks 5 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2925)
Project Pokemon Card Blanks 6 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2993)
MSE Update Files (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3020)

Project Pokemon Card Blanks 7 (Johto #1) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3661)
(with updated MSE files needed and instructions)

Digimon Card Blanks (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2927) (optional)

MSE makes creating Pokemon Heroscape cards quick and easy!

[White Knight]

PROXIES

Charmander
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/charmanderproxy.png

Pikachu
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/pikachuproxy.png

Magnemite
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg226/WarlordAlpha/Pokescape/MagnemiteProxy.png
Pidgey
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/pidgeyproxy.png

Squirtle
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/squirtleproxy.png

Sandshrew
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/sandshrewproxy.png

Abra
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/abraproxie.png

[Warlord Alpha]

Well, for the image of Charmander I would prefer just the Bulbapedia (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Charmander_(Pok%C3%A9mon)) one, as the images for their Pokemon are all the exact same artist (and, by extension, style).

As for the background, neither seems to fit. The one with Ash seems like something that would be better to use for every single Pokemon because it is so generic. And the rocky one seems better suited to a Rock or Ground type.

The ability area's background should definitely not have clouds. In general clouds should never be used for anything in design. Just keep it a solid color, either a lighter shade of pink or white is fine.

[minimoose38]

I agree that the bulbapedia picture is the one we should always use by default. The charmander's presented look almost too cuddly to be taken seriously (yeah, I know this is Pokemon but still...).

As for the background, I dislike both that were presented. The mountainous one would be great for a rock type though as WA said. I think fire types need a fire background. Nothing too flashy though. An open flame on black background would look good I think.

[BiggaBullfrog]

I agree that the bulbapedia picture is the one we should always use by default. The charmander's presented look almost too cuddly to be taken seriously (yeah, I know this is Pokemon but still...).

As for the background, I dislike both that were presented. The mountainous one would be great for a rock type though as WA said. I think fire types need a fire background. Nothing too flashy though. An open flame on black background would look good I think.
Or a kind of variation of the Utgar unit backgrounds (not necessarily the same, but volcanoes would be cool, if it meshes well with the cartoony-ness of the Pokemon).

[Warlord Alpha]

Well, if you are looking for something from the cartoon, why not the volcano from Cinnabar Island? One second, lemme see if I can find a shot of the magma/lava...

[White Knight]

The ability area's background should definitely not have clouds. In general clouds should never be used for anything in design. Just keep it a solid color, either a lighter shade of pink or white is fine.

Every single Pokemon trading card has clouds for the text, so it's not like something new.

As for the Charmander background, it's hard to find a good anime volcano or fire drawing in the Pokemon watercolor style. If anyone has picture suggestions for Charmander's background please post a link or the picture. I'll look for some as well. Screenshots of backgrounds from Pokemon episodes work well.

I don't know about locking ourselves into the Bulbapedia pictures. The trading cards use a lot of different artists with varying styles. If several people want to use only the Bulbapedia pictures I'll put it up for a vote. Tomorrow I'll add the Bulbapedia Charmander as one of the options.

[mac122]

Do you all want to see a standard background for each type? Always some sort of lava or flame for fire-type, lightning bolt for electric, etc? That can be done, though the dual types might prove tricky.

I agree with White Knight. The Bulbapedia pictures are great, but we should be open to other images.

[wulfhunter667]

First of all, Mac and WK, I want to thank you both for working so hard on these cards. The work you have done so far is outstanding and I am sure the finished product will be superb. Second, I personally like the colored text background. Is different without being to harsh to read and I definate change of pace from Classic HS cards. Third, again, I know some of you HATE the CCG, but you really should look at some of the artwork for them. I found these images of CCG cards I think would look fantastic on our card.

http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/cards/sw/big/sw_82_charmander.jpg
http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/cards/ex/big/ex_98_charmander.jpg

What do you guys think?

[Warlord Alpha]

That first card is actually really cool. I don't like the art style on the second card though.

[Kroz]

Do you all want to see a standard background for each type? Always some sort of lava or flame for fire-type, lightning bolt for electric, etc? That can be done, though the dual types might prove tricky.

I agree with White Knight. The Bulbapedia pictures are great, but we should be open to other images.

Dual you could do in I think a few ways.

1. Just go with their primary type. Bulbasaur is grass/poison, but you could just do his card as a grass card. Gastly is a ghost/poison pokemon, you could do his card as just ghost. Another good example would be Shedinja who is bug/ghost. Make his card a bug card.

2. You could do partial cards, so make half ghost and the other half poison (for gastly and his line). Personally I don't like this option.

[NightSwipe]

I like Option one here better. The only problem I see with this is with Pokemon like Swampert, where both types are greatly represented. But I think a swamp background might work in this case.

Maybe like a "Tower of Terror" kind of background for Gastly?

[Kroz]

We could also do this, we could come up with a special background for the dual pokemon. Swamp for all the water ground pokemon, the Tower of Terror for all ghost poison (because it's only ghastly's line) ;)

[White Knight]

So we have two options for Pokemon picture background:

1) Have a common background for each type and each dual type.

2) Have unique backgrounds for each Pokemon.

[Kroz]

So we have two options for Pokemon picture background:

1) Have a common background for each type.

2) Have unique backgrounds for each Pokemon.

Yeah...I'd also add the detail that even every dual type combination can have their unique background as well.

[White Knight]

More Charmander picture background options

I grabbed some screenshots from Volcano Panic (Episode 59) and did some photoshopping.

Charmander Fire 1
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafab986f26d00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


Charmander Fire 2
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafb0c6a920f00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


Charmander Fire 3
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafba98ad22500000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


Charmander Fire 4
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafac62a335600000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Charmander Fire 5
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafb9727d29700000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Charmander Fire 6
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafb3b94534200000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[BiggaBullfrog]

More Charmander picture background options

I grabbed some screenshots from Volcano Panic (Episode 59) and did some photoshopping.

-snippy-

Charmander Fire 4
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafac62a335600000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

-snippy-

I like this one best, personally. Simple non-distracting background that gives a heat effect good for fire types. Also has Charmander standing on something. As for the question of background for the text box, I like the one in this pic as well.

As far as the bulbapedia-only pictures go, I agree that we shouldn't limit ourselves to one source. The CCG is another good source, as mentioned, but I also think we should be careful with them, as some of the pictures IMO are just too flashy for a stat card. However, some pictures definitely should be taken from the cards (the original Charizard card comes to mind).

[Kroz]

More Charmander picture background options

I grabbed some screenshots from Volcano Panic (Episode 59) and did some photoshopping.

-snippy-

Charmander Fire 4
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d902b3127ccefafac62a335600000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

-snippy-

I like this one best, personally. Simple non-distracting background that gives a heat effect good for fire types. Also has Charmander standing on something. As for the question of background for the text box, I like the one in this pic as well.

As far as the bulbapedia-only pictures go, I agree that we shouldn't limit ourselves to one source. The CCG is another good source, as mentioned, but I also think we should be careful with them, as some of the pictures IMO are just too flashy for a stat card. However, some pictures definitely should be taken from the cards (the original Charizard card comes to mind).

I agree with you. I think this one is one of the better ones. I don't mind going with the pictures from the TCG as well. As long as they aren't too goofy or out of place.

[NightSwipe]

/\

What Kroz said. Number 4 gets my vote.

[minimoose38]

Agreed. Number 4 is best. I would maybe try to make the ground a little darker. It seems too light compared to the fire in the background. Other than that looks great and I am looking forward to see what other type backgrounds we come up with.

[wulfhunter667]

Like the TCG pic #1 best, but #4 is good too. ;)

[mac122]

As White Knight has been working on the details of the template, I've been working on getting our Pokemon into MSE. Thanks to Bmaczero for providing a tutorial and answering all my questions. Here are some samples of what I've got so far. Still some tweaks needed.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/PIDGEY-MSE-Sample.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Project%20Pokemon/Pikachu-MSE-Sample.jpg

[wulfhunter667]

Looks incredible Mac. You'll need to add a space for the BA across from the No Effect in W/R/I and I think I'd like a slash (/) instead of a dash(-) at the top, but otherwise, great work. ;)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mac122 again.

[mac122]

Looks incredible Mac. You'll need to add a space for the BA across from the No Effect in W/R/I and I think I'd like a slash (/) instead of a dash(-) at the top, but otherwise, great work. ;)

The slash won't be a problem. I wasn't sure if the BA by No Effect had been decided. It should fit. If the space is too tight, we'll either have to shrink the symbols a bit or possibly change to No Effect to NE.

Edit: From a consistency standpoint, if the base attack symbol ends up by No Effect, it may be best to change WEAK, RESIST, and NO EFFECT, to W, R, and NE to match the BA.

[wulfhunter667]

Looks incredible Mac. You'll need to add a space for the BA across from the No Effect in W/R/I and I think I'd like a slash (/) instead of a dash(-) at the top, but otherwise, great work. ;)

The slash won't be a problem. I wasn't sure if the BA by No Effect had been decided. It should fit. If the space is too tight, we'll either have to shrink the symbols a bit or possibly change to No Effect to NE.

Edit: From a consistency standpoint, if the base attack symbol ends up by No Effect, it may be best to change WEAK, RESIST, and NO EFFECT, to W, R, and NE to match the BA.
I'd be good with that. Anyone have a problem with it?

[NightSwipe]

Nope. Sounds good.

[Warlord Alpha]

Will you be making that template available to everyone to use? Because if so, that is a really bad idea. What happens when some kid comes along and makes their own Pokemon customs using our "super cool template" or something like that and then posts a hilariously broken card using it? Somebody posting a really bad Pikachu or something using our template will make us all look terrible.

[mac122]

Will you be making that template available to everyone to use? Because if so, that is a really bad idea. What happens when some kid comes along and makes their own Pokemon customs using our "super cool template" or something like that and then posts a hilariously broken card using it? Somebody posting a really bad Pikachu or something using our template will make us all look terrible.
I don't mind the super cool card blanks being available to everyone through MSE - but that's sort of up to bmaczero to add my scripts to his. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of people taking the time to edit the scripts themselves just to post broken cards. We can differentiate ours with the Project Pokemon logo, whenever we choose one.

[wulfhunter667]

Will you be making that template available to everyone to use? Because if so, that is a really bad idea. What happens when some kid comes along and makes their own Pokemon customs using our "super cool template" or something like that and then posts a hilariously broken card using it? Somebody posting a really bad Pikachu or something using our template will make us all look terrible.
I don't mind the super cool card blanks being available to everyone through MSE - but that's sort of up to bmaczero to add my scripts to his. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of people taking the time to edit the scripts themselves just to post broken cards. We can differentiate ours with the Project Pokemon logo, whenever we choose one.
Could just as easily, greedy as it sounds, only share with Pokescape members. And even beyond that, only with Pokescape members using MSE. But I leave that up to everyone else.

[Chardar]

A good thing to check out would be whether or not the C3G shares their templates. If they do then it can't be a huge problem, their easily recognized as the best and would know how much damage it could cause. If they don't then just trust them that they have their reasons. I personally have no problem sharing our templates, but that's just me.

[White Knight]

Here is an updated Charmander card with a darker ground for the background picture.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d906b3127ccefae244bcd06700000040O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

We have several things we need to vote on template-wise, and then we'll get into the final wording on Charmander's card. I'll start the first vote tonight.

[White Knight]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)?

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon?

[wulfhunter667]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)?Colored

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon? Unique

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon? Several different and vote
The card you have looks great WK, and unless the others just hate it, or find errors on it, I think it should stay as is.
All of you will notice I have chosen unique options for all cards involved. I really would like to see our cards stand out from the rest of the custom cards in the forum. And with Mac and WK on the case, I think the cards they create will look awesome. ;)

[NightSwipe]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)?

Colored Background

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?

Unique Backgrounds for each Pokémon

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon?

Put out several and vote on the best one


Responses in Red.

Charmander looks really good, can't wait to see the others!

[Chardar]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)? Colored

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon? Standardized for all except the legendaries and trainer pokemon (Brock's Onix)

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon? I strongly support using other sources including the TCG. The TCG has some truly incredible images that would be a shame not to use.

My opinions.

[mac122]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)? White background with colored watermarks

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon? Standardized, with possible exception for Unique (Ash's, Brock's, Misty's...) and Legendary Pokemon.

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon? Different. Let's not limit ourselves.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)? Colored

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon? I prefer standardized (with already mentioned differences for legendary/Trainer Pokemon)

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon? Several and vote
Response in red.

[minimoose38]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)? Coloredfor sure.

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?

Standardized with maybe an exemption for the legendary Pokemon.

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon?

Bulbapedia, those are the most accurate and consistent looking pictures and are easily available. The artwork on the cards are coolk but are usually way too stylized and artsy looking.
Response in red.


Copied Bullfrog's post with my votes instead of his.

[White Knight]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)? Colored Background

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon? Unique (it allows us to use pictures with backgrounds already in them)

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon? Vote on pictures

I'll close the vote by tomorrow evening (Thursday, July 19th).

By the way, can anyone tell me how to change the title of this thread as we change the discussion topic?

[Warlord Alpha]

Go into the OP, edit the first post and go into advanced mode. At the top of the editor window, right above the toolbar, there should be a text box for the title.

[White Knight]

Go into the OP, edit the first post and go into advanced mode. At the top of the editor window, right above the toolbar, there should be a text box for the title.

Thanks! I looked all over for that.:D

[White Knight]

Call for Vote:

Let's vote on several options at once to keep this thread moving. Answer with votes in RED.

Vote Question #1: Which background is better for the text abilities box: the white background or the colored background (see post #2)?

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?

Vote Question #3: Should we always use the Bulbapedia image for each Pokemon, or should we put out several images and vote on an image each time for each Pokemon?

VOTING RESULTS
1) 6-1 in favor of the colored background for the abilities text box

2) 4-3 in favor of standardized background for each type and dual type. (We'll deal with each type as it comes up for each Pokemon.)

3) 6-1 in favor of voting on the best Pokemon picture for each Pokemon. (The Art Department will offer several suggestions, and card creators and others are welcome to suggest an image as well. Then we'll vote on them.)

Thanks for all your input!

[White Knight]

Charmander abilities text wording:

Here is the latest Charmander card. Please review the wording and suggest any changes.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d906b3127ccefae244bcd06700000040O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[wulfhunter667]

Vote Question #2: Which is better for the background behind the Pokemon: a standardized background for each type (and each dual type), or unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?
2) 4-3 in favor of standardized background for each type and dual type. (We'll deal with each type as it comes up for each Pokemon.)

As with all things here, we will need a majority decision on this. It needs to be reposted and revoted on with a clear majority.

[Warlord Alpha]

Remove that "remove any other status markers from that figure's army card." I am putting that in the rulebook, there is no reason for that to be on the card.

[White Knight]

Re-Vote Question #2--Picture Background Standardization:
Should we standardize the background behind the Pokemon for each type (and each dual type), or should we allow unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?

Standardization
Pros:
- Classic Scape only has six types of backgrounds
- makes final card generation easier and quicker
- keeps things consistant
- allows us to re-use good backgrounds (if we go unique, we probably can't re-use the same backgrounds)
- having standardized backgrounds/card colors means that it will be easier to identify the type on the fly

Cons:
- less creativity
- limits what pictures can be used
- it may be difficult to make the pictures look right with all Pokemon of the same type

Explainations of Cons
1) Some great pictures from the anime and trading cards already have great backgrounds and it would be difficult to extract just the picture. Some pictures (such as Charizard breathing flame) would be more trouble to extract than it's worth.

2) Magnimite would look great floating in the air with just lightning behind it, but Jolteon needs to be standing on something to look right. Or we'd need to find a picture of Jolteon jumping into the air to make it work. In Classic Scape they avoid the look of floating in air by adding the fog. Without the fog, the pictures just look cut-and-paste.

Unique Backgrounds
Pros:
- each of the cards will have a unique feel to it
- we can choose from a wider variety of awesome pictures
- we can make sure that the background really works with the Pokemon
- we don't have to check the background with a lot of different Pokemon of the same type to make sure it will fit well

Cons:
- deviates from Classic Scape design
- more work needed for final card generation
- not as much variety
- we'll need to find a LOT of different backgrounds, since it will be inconsistant have both uniques and duplicates


We need to get a clear majority on this, so wulf asked for a re-vote. If anyone wants to add to the Pros/Cons, lets do it today. We'll start the vote tonight.

[Kroz]

Don't forget the pro's and con's of non-standardization.

Another pro that I noticed as well.

- Having standardized backgrounds/card colors means that it will be easier to identify the type on the fly.

One thing you could do is make a background with ground for those that walk...and one without for those that don't. It's still pretty standardized. You're just taking some artistic license to solve a small problem.

[minimoose38]

There is an easy fix to the flying vs ground based pokemon. Just do what is done with the Classic heroscape cards. That is, have 1 big background for each type(larger than what appears in the unit window.) but have different parts of the back ground showing. On classic heroscape cards if you look at the background of units of the same general you can see that the background is not always in the same place for each unit.

Continuing the example of the Magnemite and Jolteon, say the electric background is a brewing lightning storm over a barren field. Just put Magnemite up in the lightning clouds and Jolteon on the ground. As long as all the colors of the background are fairly consistent throughout, it won't look like two different backgrounds but different areas of one big background.

[wulfhunter667]

The purpose for the revote is not to present more ideas for your choice, but for the group to decide which direction to go with the backgrounds. Please save further ideas and commentary that are not directly related, ie, pros and cons, until the revote is over.
Also, we need a clearly defined outcome here. No less than 7 votes one way or the other.

[White Knight]

Don't forget, both Trainers and Jr. Trainers can vote.

[fiddlerjones]

I like wulf's suggestion of using one large background for each (primary) type to differentiate flying and ground units. OK maybe we only need a smaller background for "flying" and "ground" types, heh.

In any case, I vote Standardized Backgrounds with wulf's suggestion.

[White Knight]

Standardized Backgrounds versus Unique Backgrounds for Pokemon

I vote Unique Backgrounds

[wulfhunter667]

I like wulf's suggestion of using one large background for each (primary) type to differentiate flying and ground units. OK maybe we only need a smaller background for "flying" and "ground" types, heh.

Actually, Wulf did not suggest standardized backgrounds with different sizes. Wulf has, and will always be, in favor of Unique Backgrounds. ;)

[White Knight]

I like wulf's suggestion of using one large background for each (primary) type to differentiate flying and ground units. OK maybe we only need a smaller background for "flying" and "ground" types, heh.


That was minimoose ;)

[fiddlerjones]

Ah, sorry, credit where it's due. Minimoose's suggestion then.

Apologies, wulf. That's what I get for not paying attention.

[NightSwipe]

I vote Unique Backgrounds for each Pokémon.

[wulfhunter667]

Ah, sorry, credit where it's due. Minimoose's suggestion then.

Apologies, wulf. That's what I get for not paying attention.
I forgive you this once... Once... 8)

[White Knight]

Re-Vote Question #2--Picture Background Standardization:
Should we standardize the background behind the Pokemon for each type (and each dual type), or should we allow unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?


Standardization
Pros:
- Classic Scape only has six types of backgrounds
- makes final card generation easier and quicker
- keeps things consistant
- allows us to re-use good backgrounds (if we go unique, we probably can't re-use the same backgrounds)
- having standardized backgrounds/card colors means that it will be easier to identify the type on the fly

Cons:
- less creativity
- limits what pictures can be used
- it may be difficult to make the pictures look right with all Pokemon of the same type

Explainations of Cons
1) Some great pictures from the anime and trading cards already have great backgrounds and it would be difficult to extract just the picture. Some pictures (such as Charizard breathing flame) would be more trouble to extract than it's worth.

2) Magnimite would look great floating in the air with just lightning behind it, but Jolteon needs to be standing on something to look right. Or we'd need to find a picture of Jolteon jumping into the air to make it work. In Classic Scape they avoid the look of floating in air by adding the fog. Without the fog, the pictures just look cut-and-paste.

Unique Backgrounds
Pros:
- each of the cards will have a unique feel to it
- we can choose from a wider variety of awesome pictures
- we can make sure that the background really works with the Pokemon
- we don't have to check the background with a lot of different Pokemon of the same type to make sure it will fit well

Cons:
- deviates from Classic Scape design
- more work needed for final card generation
- not as much variety
- we'll need to find a LOT of different backgrounds, since it will be inconsistant have both uniques and duplicates


Calling all Pokemon Trainers and Jr. Trainers--please vote.

[Kroz]

Re-Vote Question #2--Picture Background Standardization:
Should we standardize the background behind the Pokemon for each type (and each dual type), or should we allow unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?


Standardization
Pros:
- Classic Scape only has six types of backgrounds
- makes final card generation easier and quicker
- keeps things consistant
- allows us to re-use good backgrounds (if we go unique, we probably can't re-use the same backgrounds)
- having standardized backgrounds/card colors means that it will be easier to identify the type on the fly

Cons:
- less creativity
- limits what pictures can be used
- it may be difficult to make the pictures look right with all Pokemon of the same type

Explainations of Cons
1) Some great pictures from the anime and trading cards already have great backgrounds and it would be difficult to extract just the picture. Some pictures (such as Charizard breathing flame) would be more trouble to extract than it's worth.

2) Magnimite would look great floating in the air with just lightning behind it, but Jolteon needs to be standing on something to look right. Or we'd need to find a picture of Jolteon jumping into the air to make it work. In Classic Scape they avoid the look of floating in air by adding the fog. Without the fog, the pictures just look cut-and-paste.

Unique Backgrounds
Pros:
- each of the cards will have a unique feel to it
- we can choose from a wider variety of awesome pictures
- we can make sure that the background really works with the Pokemon
- we don't have to check the background with a lot of different Pokemon of the same type to make sure it will fit well

Cons:
- deviates from Classic Scape design
- more work needed for final card generation
- not as much variety
- we'll need to find a LOT of different backgrounds, since it will be inconsistant have both uniques and duplicates


Calling all Pokemon Trainers and Jr. Trainers--please vote.

What happened to them all?

[BiggaBullfrog]

I vote Standardization here. I likes me some consistency.

[Kroz]

It seems like there are a few trainers/jr. trainers that have gone awol. Well, at least they seem to be a bit busy.

[Chardar]

After reading the various opinions I would like to change my vote to unique backgrounds. This is mainly to allow us to use images from the TCG.

[White Knight]

It seems like there are a few trainers/jr. trainers that have gone awol. Well, at least they seem to be a bit busy.

Vacations do happen, especially in summer, so I understand if some are busy.

Hopefully we'll get a consensus by the end of the weekend. I'd like to get this vote finished so we can move on to the text wording.

[minimoose38]

Standardization gets my vote. Unique backgrounds seems more along the lines of Marvelscape to me.

[Warlord Alpha]

Unique

The majority voted for unique Pokemon pictures, but it doesn't make sense to do that and exclude the backgrounds. That basically means "no" to using TCG images, because it is a unique Pokemon image on a non-standard background.

[Chardar]

Unique

The majority voted for unique Pokemon pictures, but it doesn't make sense to do that and exclude the backgrounds. That basically means "no" to using TCG images, because it is a unique Pokemon image on a non-standard background.

I don't understand. The whole reason I voted for unique backgrounds was so we could use TCG images.

[Warlord Alpha]

Unique

The majority voted for unique Pokemon pictures, but it doesn't make sense to do that and exclude the backgrounds. That basically means "no" to using TCG images, because it is a unique Pokemon image on a non-standard background.

I don't understand. The whole reason I voted for unique backgrounds was so we could use TCG images.

Yeah. And some people here that voted for unique Pokemon images are voting for standardized backgrounds. It doesn't make sense, because a lot of the unique Pokemon images come from the TCG, but they also come with a unique background. So, either we can't use TCG images, or somebody (I think I'm the only one here that knows how) would have to rip the Pokemon images from the background, which can vary from "pretty easy" to "a pain in the [butt]" to "basically impossible."

[White Knight]

mac and I both know how to extract the pictures from the backgrounds also.

But I agree, it can be easy to nearly impossible (and still keep it looking right without relics around the edges).

[mac122]

Cutting images out of backgrounds can be a HUGE pain in the butt and very time-consuming. If we end up with Standard backgrounds and unique images, there will be likely be fewer usable images. The more complex the image the harder it will be to cut out. Charizard breathing fire, Zapdos in an electric storm, eh, maybe the Bulbapedia image will work just fine.

[Chardar]

A perfect example would be the Charizard ex card.

http://pokebeach.com/scans/ex-firered-and-leafgreen/105-charizard-ex.jpg

It's an amazing image, but would be very hard to implement without adding the background. I think we should use unique images and backgrounds so that we will be able to use images such as this one.

[Warlord Alpha]

But I agree, it can be easy to nearly impossible (and still keep it looking right without relics around the edges).

It's actually very easy to prevent the "relics" (pixels from the background) from appearing around the edges if you know what you are doing. The hard part is lighting. Often, elements from a part of the image other than the focal (the Pokemon) create really weird lighting effects. When you cut out the focal, you lose those elements, and instead you have this render of a really strange looking object (because all the shadows are in the "wrong" places and some places have odd highlights, etc). Also, things like auras and other circular effects that partially cover the focal get lost when you cut it out, so what you end up with is an aura or something getting cut off where it should fade out smoothly.

Those problems can be easy to fix sometimes, but more often than not it is almost impossible.

[White Knight]

Magnemite Card

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d623b3127ccefa9049ab7c4e00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Magnemite with background removed

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d623b3127ccefa91b0851cc800000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Magnemite on Common Electric Background
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d623b3127ccefa90550efdd500000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Like I said, it can be done, but to really, really do it right takes a lot of time. I did this Magnemite in about 20 minutes, but I would have spent a lot more time if we were using it for the cards. The top screw was most difficult because of the glow and the sharp threads--along with the lightblue electric sparks in the back.

It's when the contrast is low that extracting is most difficult. And, WA, like you mentioned, any picture with an aura (glow) is really hard.

On the Charizard card, I'd look for the non-holo version of the card and try to extract from that.

[Chardar]

That was just an example. I'd agree that holo versions are pretty much out of the question.

[White Knight]

I found the Charizard card without the holo. It wasn't very high resolution, but I wanted to play around with it anyways.

Charizard card
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d623b3127ccefa9011b2fd4b00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Charizard extracted
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d623b3127ccefa906f91fd5700000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
(Just noticed I missed some of the blue clouds under Charizard's arm in the bottom middle.)

Charizard with the fire type background
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d623b3127ccefa903958fdb500000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

The Charizard card is short and wide, whereas our Pokemon template is high and thin, so there would be some artistry (added flames, blending, etc...) involved to get the pictures looking right together.

[Kroz]

The pictures of Charizard don't show for me.

[wulfhunter667]

The entire picture does not have to show, you know. And for that matter, you could rotate certain pics you find, like this one, to the left a bit to add a different dimension to the pic and actually make it your own piece of art. ;)

[Kroz]

I can see them now!

[White Knight]

We are still at an impasse about the standardized/unique background.

Counting all votes from first and second voting (with Chardar switching his vote), we are at 5-4 in favor of unique backgrounds. That's definitely not a clear-cut majority.

My Suggestions
1) We wait until we finish the first round of cards before deciding on standardized versus unique background. Let's finalize some cards. For each Pokemon we'll look at different pictures and vote on the picture and background.

When we get to a second card of the same type, we'll compare the Pokemon on the backgrounds and see if we want to standardize or go unique.

2) At the same time, I'll make a list of all types and the Pokemon in the first 151 who share the same type. It will give us an idea of how much overlap we'll have. It will also allow us to quickly put some same-type Pokemon into the backgrounds and see how they look.

[White Knight]

Pokemon by Type
Note: for the Master Set, the only repeats are from the same evolution line.


Grass/Poison
Bulbasaur
Ivysaur
Venusaur
Oddish
Gloom
Vileplume
Bellsprout
Weepinbell
Vicreebel

Fire
Charmander
Charmeleon
Vulpix
Ninetales
Ponyta
Rapidash
Magmar
Flareon

Fire/Flying
Charizard
Moltres

Water
Squirtle
Wartortle
Blastoise
Psyduck
Golduck
Poliwag
Poliwhirl
Seel
Shellder
Krabby
Kingler
Horsea
Seadra
Goldeen
Seaking
Staryu
Magikarp
Vaporeon

Bug
Caterpie
Metapod
Pinsir

Bug/Flying
Butterfree
Scyther

Bug/Poison
Weedle
Kakuna
Beedrill
Venonat
Venomoth

Normal/Flying
Pidgey
Pidgeotto
Pidgeot
Spearow
Fearow
Farfetch’d
Doduo
Dodrio

Normal
Rattata
Raticate
Clefairy
Clefable
Meowth
Persian
Jigglypuff
Wigglytuff
Lickitung
Chansey
Kangaskhan
Tauros
Ditto
Eevee
Porygon
Snorlax

Poison
Ekans
Arbok
Nidoran(f)
Nidorina
Nidoran(m)
Nidorino
Grimer
Muk
Koffing
Weezing

Poison/Ground
Nidoqueen
Nidoking

Electric
Pikachu
Raichu
Voltorb
Electrode
Electabuzz
Jolteon

Electric/Steel
Magnemite
Magneton

Ground
Sandshrew
Sandslash
Diglett
Dugtrio
Cubone
Marowak

Poison/Flying
Zubat
Golbat

Bug/Grass
Paras
Parasect

Fighting
Mankey
Primeape
Machop
Machoke
Machamp
Hitmonlee
Hitmonchan

Water/Fighting
Poliwrath

Psychic
Abra
Kadabra
Alakazam
Drowzee
Hypno
Mr. Mime
Mew
Mewtwo

Water/Poison
Tentacool
Tentacruel

Rock/Ground
Geodude
Graveler
Golem
Onix
Rhyhorn
Rhydon

Water/Psychic
Slowpoke
Slowbro
Starmie

Water/Ice
Dewgong
Cloyster
Lapras

Ghost/Poison
Gastly
Haunter
Gengar

Grass/Psychic
Exeggcute
Exeggutor

Grass
Tangela

Ice/Psychic
Jynx

Water/Flying
Gyrados

Rock/Water
Omanyte
Omastar
Kabuto
Kabutops

Rock/Flying
Aerodactyl

Ice/Flying
Ariticuno

Electric/Flying
Zapdos

Dragon
Dratini
Dragonair

Dragon/Flying
Dragonite

[Kroz]

Jigglypuff and Wigglypuff aren't normal/flying. They're just normal.

[wulfhunter667]

For those of you who revoted against unique backgrounds, check WK's list above. You'll notice that, as it is, to give each specific type of Pokemon it's own standardized background is going to be almost as much work as using unique backgrounds. There are what, 34 different types represented in the original 151? As it is, there is not going to be that much consistency in the color schemes as it is. Standardized backgrounds, IMHO, will just serve to confuse non-Pokemon players, that rare breed of player that is looking to use one or two well-known Pokemon instead of the whole set. Unique backgrounds add a completely different element to the game and allow the art dept. a little breathing room to spread their creative wings a bit. So again, for those of you who voted for standardization, please, reconsider. The vote as it stands is 5 to 4 in favor of unique. Two votes switched will end this debate and move us forward.

[Warlord Alpha]

Are there Junior Trainers or Trainers that haven't voted yet? Should somebody send them a PM?

[mac122]

Are there Junior Trainers or Trainers that haven't voted yet? Should somebody send them a PM?
Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I revoted. If not:
Unique backgrounds.

[minimoose38]

For those of you who revoted against unique backgrounds, check WK's list above. You'll notice that, as it is, to give each specific type of Pokemon it's own standardized background is going to be almost as much work as using unique backgrounds. There are what, 34 different types represented in the original 151? As it is, there is not going to be that much consistency in the color schemes as it is. Standardized backgrounds, IMHO, will just serve to confuse non-Pokemon players, that rare breed of player that is looking to use one or two well-known Pokemon instead of the whole set. Unique backgrounds add a completely different element to the game and allow the art dept. a little breathing room to spread their creative wings a bit. So again, for those of you who voted for standardization, please, reconsider. The vote as it stands is 5 to 4 in favor of unique. Two votes switched will end this debate and move us forward.

I don't understand how backgrounds could possibly confuse anyone, especially if they are only using 1 or 2 well known favorites. Also, I think it would just as easily be that we represent with the background each pokemon's MAIN type when handling dual types. Pidgey is Normal/Flying but the Flying type is what defines it. That would mean it would get the flying type background. After awhile I think all of the unique backgrounds would end up looking pretty much the same. Water type is one of the most prevalent types in the game if not the most. Theres only a couple different backgrounds you could give each one and eventually they would all start looking similar anyway.

[White Knight]

Here's my favorite Pidgey picture. It's from the TCG. Notice how it fits with its background--especially with the wind lines.

Original Card
http://pokebeach.com/scans/secret-wonders/99-pidgey.jpg

With the background modified to fit our cards
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d622b3127ccefa92775c248a00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

For standardized cards, to use this image we'd either need to extract Pidgey from its background and place it into the standardized background (and lose the wind lines). Or we'd need to make the background the standardized one, extract Pidgey, clean it up, and use it for all other normal/flying Pokemon.

[White Knight]

After awhile I think all of the unique backgrounds would end up looking pretty much the same. Water type is one of the most prevalent types in the game if not the most. Theres only a couple different backgrounds you could give each one and eventually they would all start looking similar anyway.

I picture Magikarp jumping into the air with rocks or a waterfall behind it. Squirtle on a riverbank. Krabby at the beach. Seel on rocks or in the ocean. Goldeen underwater. Psyduck on rocks near a river.

Do we do an underwater shot for all of them? Or just on top of the water? Staryu would look good underwater, but Psyduck not so much.

[Kroz]

After reading this little debate and thinking it over, I think that unique backgrounds would be best. They'll just look better.

[fiddlerjones]

Yeah, I'm in agreement. After seeing some of these backgrounds that fit the illustration so well, I'm changing my vote to Unique Backgrounds.

[NightSwipe]

I think that's two converts!

[wulfhunter667]

Re-Vote Question #2--Picture Background Standardization:
Should we standardize the background behind the Pokemon for each type (and each dual type), or should we allow unique backgrounds for each Pokemon?

Standardization
Pros:
- Classic Scape only has six types of backgrounds
- makes final card generation easier and quicker
- keeps things consistant
- allows us to re-use good backgrounds (if we go unique, we probably can't re-use the same backgrounds)
- having standardized backgrounds/card colors means that it will be easier to identify the type on the fly

Cons:
- less creativity
- limits what pictures can be used
- it may be difficult to make the pictures look right with all Pokemon of the same type

Explainations of Cons
1) Some great pictures from the anime and trading cards already have great backgrounds and it would be difficult to extract just the picture. Some pictures (such as Charizard breathing flame) would be more trouble to extract than it's worth.

2) Magnimite would look great floating in the air with just lightning behind it, but Jolteon needs to be standing on something to look right. Or we'd need to find a picture of Jolteon jumping into the air to make it work. In Classic Scape they avoid the look of floating in air by adding the fog. Without the fog, the pictures just look cut-and-paste.

Unique Backgrounds
Pros:
- each of the cards will have a unique feel to it
- we can choose from a wider variety of awesome pictures
- we can make sure that the background really works with the Pokemon
- we don't have to check the background with a lot of different Pokemon of the same type to make sure it will fit well

Cons:
- deviates from Classic Scape design
- more work needed for final card generation
- not as much variety
- we'll need to find a LOT of different backgrounds, since it will be inconsistant have both uniques and duplicates


We need to get a clear majority on this, so wulf asked for a re-vote. If anyone wants to add to the Pros/Cons, lets do it today. We'll start the vote tonight.

Standardized Backgrounds versus Unique Backgrounds for Pokemon

I vote Unique Backgrounds

I like wulf's suggestion of using one large background for each (primary) type to differentiate flying and ground units. OK maybe we only need a smaller background for "flying" and "ground" types, heh.

Actually, Wulf did not suggest standardized backgrounds with different sizes. Wulf has, and will always be, in favor of Unique Backgrounds. ;)

I vote Unique Backgrounds for each Pokémon.

I vote Standardization here. I likes me some consistency.

After reading the various opinions I would like to change my vote to unique backgrounds. This is mainly to allow us to use images from the TCG.

Standardization gets my vote. Unique backgrounds seems more along the lines of Marvelscape to me.

Unique

The majority voted for unique Pokemon pictures, but it doesn't make sense to do that and exclude the backgrounds. That basically means "no" to using TCG images, because it is a unique Pokemon image on a non-standard background.

A perfect example would be the Charizard ex card.
It's an amazing image, but would be very hard to implement without adding the background. I think we should use unique images and backgrounds so that we will be able to use images such as this one.

Are there Junior Trainers or Trainers that haven't voted yet? Should somebody send them a PM?
Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I revoted. If not:
Unique backgrounds.

Yeah, I'm in agreement. After seeing some of these backgrounds that fit the illustration so well, I'm changing my vote to Unique Backgrounds.
The revote is done. 8 to 2 for unique. WK, now that this is decided, let's get some cards for WA to post in the Display Thread. ;)

[Warlord Alpha]

WK, now that this is decided, let's get some cards for WA to post in the Display Thread. ;)

Wording arguments first though. I have some issues with a couple of the cards.

[White Knight]

Charmander Wording final review:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d906b3127ccefae244bcd06700000040O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Remove that "remove any other status markers from that figure's army card." I am putting that in the rulebook, there is no reason for that to be on the card.

WA had some comments on the wording for Ember. Anyone have any other changes?

[Warlord Alpha]

Yes. Smokescreen says "non-adjacent opponent," can we change that to "non-adjacent figure." The only time that cards reference opponents rather than figures is when the ability to use your own figure breaks something.

[wulfhunter667]

Charmander Wording final review:

Remove that "remove any other status markers from that figure's army card." I am putting that in the rulebook, there is no reason for that to be on the card.

WA had some comments on the wording for Ember. Anyone have any other changes?

Yes. Smokescreen says "non-adjacent opponent," can we change that to "non-adjacent figure." The only time that cards reference opponents rather than figures is when the ability to use your own figure breaks something.
I'm agreeable to both of those changes.

[White Knight]

I agree as well to both changes.

[nyra90]

Why is chamader's size 2 when he is more than 150% taller than pikachu who you gave a height of 3?

Pikachu 1' 4"
charmander 2'

[Chardar]

Why is chamader's size 2 when he is more than 150% taller than pikachu who you gave a height of 3?

Pikachu 1' 4"
charmander 2'

We sized them based off of playability. How high can this one climb? If they can't climb very high than it makes unplayable.

[White Knight]

Why is chamader's size 2 when he is more than 150% taller than pikachu who you gave a height of 3?

Pikachu 1' 4"
charmander 2'

My mistake. Charmander's height is 3. We bumped it up to avoild having to give it climb.

[nyra90]

Sorry if I was too nit picky that was just something that stood out to me. Heroscape's size scale is a little weird.

[White Knight]

No problem. I'd noticed the mistake in the size before, but I'd forgotten. Little catches like this is what we're looking for to finalize the cards.

[NightSwipe]

I think Charmander looks good.

[Warlord Alpha]

What does Charmander currently look like?

[White Knight]

CHARMANDER--MASTER SET

We'll be displaying a higher resolution copy, but this is the final Charmander card. You should next see it on the Display Thread.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa815b1ce4f300000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[White Knight]

PIKACHU IMAGE

Pikachu is up next. We have 3 options for Pikachu images, and 4 options for Pikachu's background. (Other picture and background suggestions are welcome.)

Discussion first, then a vote.

Pikachu Image
#1) Jumping Pikachu
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa81f1e1e45b00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


#2) Fighting Pikachu
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa811ce0258400000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


#3) Happy Pikachu
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa80fba1456200000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


Pikachu Background
#1) Lightning in the Rain
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa81f1e1e45b00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


#2) Thundershock from "I Choose You, Pikachu"
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa80e62c844900000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa8002d284c500000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


#3) Lightning Storm
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa81025f253400000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa81ffd1655c00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


#4) Lots of Lightning
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa81351a65f200000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa81a7f1655000000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[BiggaBullfrog]

I like jumping Pikachu best for the image. As for the background, all of them look really great. If I had to choose, I'd go with #1, but I'd be fine with any of them.

[Warlord Alpha]

CHARMANDER--MASTER SET

We'll be displaying a higher resolution copy, but this is the final Charmander card. You should next see it on the Display Thread.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d631b3127ccefa815b1ce4f300000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

A couple issues:

It says "roll a 20-sided die," shouldn't that say "roll the 20-sided die?" I don't think there is a single figure in Heroscape that says "roll a 20-sided die"

The "in turn" for Burn doesn't matter, you can just remove that

Where it says if you roll a 1-10, remove that "one additional" from there. Just say "the figure receives one wound."

[White Knight]

I'll wait until tonight (Wednesday) for any more comments on Pikachu's image and then we'll vote.

[wulfhunter667]

Great work on the Pikachu cards, WK. One thing though, is it me, or are the hit zone pics off center?

[mac122]

Great work on the Pikachu cards, WK. One thing though, is it me, or are the hit zone pics off center?
These sample cards do not show the "Evolves from Pichu" text or the small Pichu image that will be in the lower part of the area.

[wulfhunter667]

Great work on the Pikachu cards, WK. One thing though, is it me, or are the hit zone pics off center?
These sample cards do not show the "Evolves from Pichu" text or the small Pichu image that will be in the lower part of the area.
Aaaaaah. Well ok then. Great work either way guys. ;)

[NightSwipe]

I vote for Jumping Pikachu and Lightning in the Rain.

[mac122]

My choice would be Fighting Pikachu and Lightning in the Rain.

[minimoose38]

My vote goes towards Jumping Pikachu and Lightning in the Rain, though all the backgrounds look really great.

[White Knight]

Pikachu Background--Option #5

I couldn't resist. I found this background in episode 179--Power Play and thought it might look good with Pikachu.

#5) Thundershock at the Power Plant

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d630b3127ccefa82fab4dcf300000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[White Knight]

PIKACHU Image/Background Vote

Trainers and Jr. Trainers, if you haven't voted on a Pikachu image and Background yet, please vote.
(pictures on the previous page)

Pikachu Image
#1) Jumping Pikachu
#2) Fighting Pikachu
#3) Happy Pikachu

Pikachu Background
#1) Lightning in the Rain
#2) Thundershock from "I Choose You, Pikachu"
#3) Lightning Storm
#4) Lots of Lightning
#5) Thundershock at the Power Plant

[fiddlerjones]

Option #1: Jumping Pikachu in the Rain for both picture and background.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Not sure if my earlier post was an official vote, so #1 for both image and background.

[White Knight]

PIKACHU FINAL COMMENTS

Jumping Pikachu in the Rain got the most votes (sorry mac). So now its time for any final comments or tweaks of the text before I send Pikachu to WA for display and we start looking at Pidgey.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d632b3127ccefa8ee6026c1000000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

AGILITY
Instead of moving and attacking normally, this Pikachu may use Agility. While using Agility, this Pikachu adds 3 to its movement and may make a normal attack once before, during, or after its move. When using Agility, this Pikachu is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

THUNDERSHOCK SPECIAL ATTACK
E Range 5. Attack 3.
This Pikachu may use this special attack 2 times in the same turn. This Pikachu may target the same or a different figure with each attack.

DOUBLE TEAM 2
When this Pikachu rolls defense dice against an attacking figure who is not adjacent, add 2 defense dice to this Pikachu.

CLIMB X2
When moving up or down levels of terrain, this Pikachu may double his height.

[mac122]

Probably need to look at renaming Thundershock.

The options seem to be:
1. Leave it Thundershock and ignore the inconsistency with WA's later version with the same name.
2. Rename Magnemite's version of Thundershock.
3. Rename it Pikachu's Thundershock but possibly have issues with any future versions of Pikachu
4. Rename it Thunderbolt or Thunder which would prevent future uses of this ability from having a Paralysis effect.
5. Give it a non-Pokemon name like Zap or Shock but lose theme

My choice of these would be option 4 - Thunderbolt or Thunder. While the other electric moves Pikachu learns can induce Paralysis in the video games, we don't have to completely mimic every detail. Thunderbolt or Thunder could just be special attacks that allow multiple strikes and vary in power by the relative power of the Pokemon.

[wulfhunter667]

Be sure to check the TCG for possible names for Pikachu's electric attack.

[White Knight]

Be sure to check the TCG for possible names for Pikachu's electric attack.

Trading Card Game names of some of Pikachu's attacks
Thunder Jolt
Pika Bolt

Other Possibilities
Dual Thundershock
Double Thundershock
Thundershock 2x

[Chardar]

Pikachu's card seems to be missing its point cost. Other than that it looks awesome.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Probably need to look at renaming Thundershock.

The options seem to be:
1. Leave it Thundershock and ignore the inconsistency with WA's later version with the same name.
2. Rename Magnemite's version of Thundershock.
3. Rename it Pikachu's Thundershock but possibly have issues with any future versions of Pikachu
4. Rename it Thunderbolt or Thunder which would prevent future uses of this ability from having a Paralysis effect.
5. Give it a non-Pokemon name like Zap or Shock but lose theme

My choice of these would be option 4 - Thunderbolt or Thunder. While the other electric moves Pikachu learns can induce Paralysis in the video games, we don't have to completely mimic every detail. Thunderbolt or Thunder could just be special attacks that allow multiple strikes and vary in power by the relative power of the Pokemon.
I like option 4 as well for renaming it Thunderbolt (Thunder just seems to be even bigger, to me). I also like Thunder Jolt from the TCG. Either of those would be fine.

[Chardar]

Probably need to look at renaming Thundershock.

The options seem to be:
1. Leave it Thundershock and ignore the inconsistency with WA's later version with the same name.
2. Rename Magnemite's version of Thundershock.
3. Rename it Pikachu's Thundershock but possibly have issues with any future versions of Pikachu
4. Rename it Thunderbolt or Thunder which would prevent future uses of this ability from having a Paralysis effect.
5. Give it a non-Pokemon name like Zap or Shock but lose theme

My choice of these would be option 4 - Thunderbolt or Thunder. While the other electric moves Pikachu learns can induce Paralysis in the video games, we don't have to completely mimic every detail. Thunderbolt or Thunder could just be special attacks that allow multiple strikes and vary in power by the relative power of the Pokemon.
I like option 4 as well for renaming it Thunderbolt (Thunder just seems to be even bigger, to me). I also like Thunder Jolt from the TCG. Either of those would be fine.

Thunderbolt. I picture thunder as a single, massive bolt striking a single target. It's easier to picture thunderbolt striking multiple targets.

[NightSwipe]

Thunderbolt is fine with me, although Pika Bolt sounds pretty good too...

[White Knight]

I'm definitely against using Thunder. It's such a powerful move, and I see it as something Zapdos or other strong electric types might use. (Maybe Ash's Pikachu.)

I like Thundershock 2x, Thunderbolt, and Thunder Jolt

I'll add Pikachu's points to the card.

[Chardar]

Official vote Thunderbolt. It's official, simple, looks good, and doesn't sound corny.

[fiddlerjones]

I vote for Thunderbolt #, where # is the attack value. This way, we can allow more powerful pokemon with Thunderbolt to use it with a higher attack. Count my vote as one for Thunderbolt though, if no one else jumps in on this idea.

[Chardar]

I don't think we need a number. There are plenty of electric type moves we can use for the other values. The attack value can give us variation between the moves, and differing moves will make the pokemon seem more unique than just saying thunderbolt #.

[fiddlerjones]

I don't think we need a number. There are plenty of electric type moves we can use for the other values. The attack value can give us variation between the moves, and differing moves will make the pokemon seem more unique than just saying thunderbolt #.

This is true, but I'd rather, say, Thunder be a different move entirely, like a big all-or-nothing attack similar to the video game, rather than just "more better Thunderbolt." There are lots of different electric-type moves, agreed, but there's also a lot of design space able to be utilized. I'd hate to waste a good move name by making it the same as Thunderbolt, just with more (or fewer) attack dice.

[Warlord Alpha]

I say re-name it to Thunderbolt, and then give Pikachu a separate ability called "Pikachu's Thunderbolt" or something else, and that allows Pikachu to attack twice with Thunderbolt.

I can't find the post at the moment, but Thunderbolt does not attack twice (like attacking both Pokemon in a double battle) or do anything like that in the video game. It's Pikachu that attacks twice with Thunderbolt. Because Pikachu modifies Thunderbolt, we need to give Pikachu an ability that conveys that he modifies Thunderbolt, rather than Pikachu randomly has this Thunderbolt that doesn't match the game at all.

[NightSwipe]

^^ I agree. Pikachu's Thunderbolt works perfectly in this case.

[BiggaBullfrog]

I say re-name it to Thunderbolt, and then give Pikachu a separate ability called "Pikachu's Thunderbolt" or something else, and that allows Pikachu to attack twice with Thunderbolt.

I can't find the post at the moment, but Thunderbolt does not attack twice (like attacking both Pokemon in a double battle) or do anything like that in the video game. It's Pikachu that attacks twice with Thunderbolt. Because Pikachu modifies Thunderbolt, we need to give Pikachu an ability that conveys that he modifies Thunderbolt, rather than Pikachu randomly has this Thunderbolt that doesn't match the game at all.
However, if we go this way we should just rename it Pikachu's Thundershock, because it has the same range and attack as Magnemite's Thundershock Special Attack. However, I'm all for simply naming it Thunderbolt. It's simple, and if we ever want more Pokemon to attack twice with an electric attack, we don't have to name every attack after the specific Pokemon.

[fiddlerjones]

Well, my second choice is just calling it Thunderbolt, and I want my vote to count toward that if more people aren't on board with "Thunderbolt #." I don't like the <Pokemon>'s Move formula though, kinda sounds cheesy.

[White Knight]

OK mac, you've heard the suggestions.

Choose a name for Pikachu's attack, I'll put it on the card, and we can vote to move Pikachu to the Display thread.

[Chardar]

I think just thunderbolt works because in the game the animation shows several bolts striking the target. So it is slightly represented in the game.

[mac122]

IMO, Thunderbolt sounds the best of all these.

For future Pokescape figures, this would mean Thunderbolt does not have the ability to cause Paralysis even though Thunderbolt can cause it in the video games. Designers will have to choose a different ability name if they want their figure to have the Paralysis ability. Don't want a repeat of the two versions of Thundershock.

[Chardar]

IMO, Thunderbolt sounds the best of all these.

For future Pokescape figures, this would mean Thunderbolt does not have the ability to cause Paralysis even though Thunderbolt can cause it in the video games. Designers will have to choose a different ability name if they want their figure to have the Paralysis ability. Don't want a repeat of the two versions of Thundershock.

We're hard pressed to use all of the electric type moves as is, I don't see this ever becoming a problem.

[Warlord Alpha]

IMO, Thunderbolt sounds the best of all these.

For future Pokescape figures, this would mean Thunderbolt does not have the ability to cause Paralysis even though Thunderbolt can cause it in the video games. Designers will have to choose a different ability name if they want their figure to have the Paralysis ability. Don't want a repeat of the two versions of Thundershock.

I don't see this ever becoming a problem.

I do. You guys aren't thinking about the future. There are a lot of electric type Pokemon.

[mac122]

IMO, Thunderbolt sounds the best of all these.

For future Pokescape figures, this would mean Thunderbolt does not have the ability to cause Paralysis even though Thunderbolt can cause it in the video games. Designers will have to choose a different ability name if they want their figure to have the Paralysis ability. Don't want a repeat of the two versions of Thundershock.

I don't see this ever becoming a problem.

I do. You guys aren't thinking about the future. There are a lot of electric type Pokemon.
No, I am thinking of the future, that's why I put the (now bolded) statement in my post. If people are not OK with this, then they need to speak up now. Personally, I don't think every Electric move we have needs to have the Paralysis effect added on. We can't and shouldn't try to mimic every aspect of the video game. Again, if people have a problem with that, then now is the time to discuss it.

[Chardar]

I don't think there's an issue, if we ever run out of game moves to use there's always the TCG. We don't, and never will have a shortage of moves. So this is me speaking up now to say that I don't have a problem with this.

[NightSwipe]

^^ Neither do I.

[Warlord Alpha]

No, I am thinking of the future, that's why I put the (now bolded) statement in my post. If people are not OK with this, then they need to speak up now. Personally, I don't think every Electric move we have needs to have the Paralysis effect added on. We can't and shouldn't try to mimic every aspect of the video game. Again, if people have a problem with that, then now is the time to discuss it.

I want future designers to be able to give a Pokemon a Thunderbolt that can inflict paralysis. Otherwise, we are only hurting ourselves.

[minimoose38]

I think Thunderbolt should at sometime be able to inflict paralysis. If that means not naming Pikachu's special attack Thunderbolt now, name it something else. Either Shockwave from the game, a move that doesn't inflict paralysis, or one of the many attacks the TCG Pikachus have.

[BiggaBullfrog]

No, I am thinking of the future, that's why I put the (now bolded) statement in my post. If people are not OK with this, then they need to speak up now. Personally, I don't think every Electric move we have needs to have the Paralysis effect added on. We can't and shouldn't try to mimic every aspect of the video game. Again, if people have a problem with that, then now is the time to discuss it.

I want future designers to be able to give a Pokemon a Thunderbolt that can inflict paralysis. Otherwise, we are only hurting ourselves.
Then we can just name Pikachu's attack Thunder Jolt (another good name, IMO). All I'm against here is throwing the name of the Pokemon in front of each attack. If it happens once or twice, it's okay, especially if we put it on a Unique card. But this version of ThunderSomething I can see being used again easily, so I really don't think it should be named Pikachu's.

[fiddlerjones]

Not every attack has to do what it does in the video games. Look at Water Gun - in the games it doesn't care if you're fighting in the water or in the desert, but in Pokescape it does. Thunderbolt is fine as-is. If a designer wants a paralysis-inflicting attack, he can either use Thundershock or another untapped electric power. Failing that, he can come up with a name for his new power, like the aforementioned "Thunder Jolt."

[White Knight]

I personally like "DOUBLE THUNDERSHOCK" as the name of Pikachu's attack. It conveys the fact that Pikachu can use it twice, and it just matches Pikachu better.

Yes, it's different than normal Thundershock. But Ash always seems to yell: "Pikachu, use Thundershock!" It is such an iconic move that starting off the bat in this Master Set with something like Thunder Jolt or Pika Bolt just doesn't seem right.

I agree with fiddler that we shouldn't force ourselves to match the video games. They are great for ideas, but it's up to us to customize them to Heroscape.

[wulfhunter667]

Realistically, we could call it ThunderCrap and it wouldn't make a difference. The most important thing here is not a straight-up conversion of the video games to Heroscape, but rather the Pokemon world and flavor incorporated into Heroscape. I think long term the decision needs to be up to the designer, Mac, with the understanding that since the vast majority of members want a future Thundershock and/or Thunderbolt with Paralysis, the current power needs to have a unique name, not necessarily one that is found only in the game.

[fiddlerjones]

with the understanding that since the vast majority of members want a future Thundershock and/or Thunderbolt with Paralysis, the current power needs to have a unique name, not necessarily one that is found only in the game.

I haven't seen this to be true. Possibly a majority, but certainly not a vast one want this to be the case. I'd almost rather not have a Thunderbolt with paralysis, as then it just becomes "Thundershock Plus." Additionally, it reinforces the idea that not every electric attack has to cause paralysis. It's mac's call though, and I agree that if he chooses a new name, it doesn't necessarily have to be one from the games.

[mac122]

Risking hours (or days) of argument, I think it should be Thunderbolt. We do not have to mimic every aspect of the video game. If we decide now that every Electric Attack that can cause Paralysis in the video games must have the ability to cause Paralysis in Heroscape, then we will be limiting future Pokemon. What about a future Electric Pokemon that has really cool but wordy ability (or two) that also needs an Electric special attack? Nope, sorry, cool ability(ies) may have to go because all our strong Electric attacks must have Paralysis because they do in the video game. Leave Thunderbolt without Paralysis and we have options.

Options still available for Paralyzing Electric moves: Thundershock, Thunder, Discharge, Spark, Thunder Fang, Thunderpunch, Zap Cannon.
Oh, and don't forget Thunderwave if you just want Paralysis.

Let the hours (days?) of arguments begin!

[White Knight]

OK with me.

[fiddlerjones]

Then I suppose Thunderbolt it is. As Pikachu was mac's custom, it's his call.

I agree that there are plenty of future electric moves that can paralyze. In my mind, however, Thunder shouldn't be one of them. I know this is up to the designer, but for me the paralysis of Thunder was secondary at best. It's a big-damage, all-or-nothing attack. Perhaps something like this (again, just an idea, the actual attack being the prerogative of the designer):

Thunder Special Attack
<electric> Range 6, Attack 3.
Each unblocked skull rolled for this attack inflicts an additional wound.

[NightSwipe]

Thunderbolt is fine.

OBTW: ^^That's a good idea for Thunder....

[White Knight]

Thunder Special Attack
<electric> Range 6, Attack 3.
Choose one figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by Thunder Special Attack. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each unblocked skull rolled for this attack inflicts an additional wound. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

I think Thunder should affect adjacent figures as well.

[fiddlerjones]

Thunder Special Attack
<electric> Range 6, Attack 3.
Choose one figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by Thunder Special Attack. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each unblocked skull rolled for this attack inflicts an additional wound. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

I think Thunder should affect adjacent figures as well.

Good point. Thunder makes sense as an AoE. Ditto for Fireblast.

[NightSwipe]

Even better.

[wulfhunter667]

Guys, we are WAY off topic here. The subject at hand is the finalization of Pikachu. If you want to make suggestions for future Electric type move, put them in the main thread or in the Brainstorming thread, not here.

[White Knight]

Pidgey Picture Options

I'd like to have 2 Pokemon in Finalization at a time to speed things up. So here are options for the Pidgey pictures.

#1) Pidgey flying Straight

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d639b3127ccefab02c0541a800000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


#2) Pidgey on the ground

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d639b3127ccefab1c5e6a0db00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#3) The "Real" Pidgey

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d639b3127ccefab06aa3c01d00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#4) 3-D Pidgey

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d639b3127ccefab11235e0fb00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#5) Pidgey in the clouds

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d639b3127ccefab153e221a400000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#6) Pidgey Whirlwind

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d639b3127ccefab1ee7be0cb00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Comments today and I'll start the vote tomorrow (Thursday).

[NightSwipe]

Pidgey Picture Options




#4) 3-D Pidgey

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d639b3127ccefab11235e0fb00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/




:rofl: That's great! Where did you find that?

[wulfhunter667]

WK, You have outdone yourself again. I have a seriously hard decision to make between 1, 5 and 6. The others are frickin awesome, but those seem to me to best represent Pidgey in my mind.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to White Knight again.

[Chardar]

#5, without a doubt the coolest pidget I've ever seen.

[Kroz]

1, 5, & 6 are the best by far. I just can't decide though...I want all three!!!

[Chardar]

Hey Kroz, I haven't seen you around in awhile. Welcome back. I'll admit six is good, but 1 is just a little cartoonish, and not in a good way.

[mac122]

#5

Nice job!

[NightSwipe]

Just realized I forgot to vote. #5.

[BiggaBullfrog]

#6 looks best on the card, IMO.

[White Knight]

VOTE
Trainers and Jr. Trainers--if you haven't voted on a Pidgey picture, the time to vote is now.

By Friday morning I'll collect the votes and post the card for final text editing.

[wulfhunter667]

ARGH!!! DECISIONS!!! Oh well. I think #5 is gonna get my vote.

[fiddlerjones]

#5.

[Warlord Alpha]

I like #5.

[White Knight]

Pidgey #5 is the winner!

On to text
Does anyone have any last issues with Pidgey's text?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d601b3127ccefabcc6b49cfb00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[White Knight]

Anyone have any last comments/issues with Pikachu's card or text?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d601b3127ccefabde495bc8700000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

If no one has changes by Sunday, I'll move these to the Display Thread and we'll start finalizing Magnemite on Monday.

[Warlord Alpha]

Pidgey: Can we make Whirlwind 5 levels above OR BELOW pidgey's base? I don't think Pidgey at the top of a castle should be able to whirlwind somebody 20 levels below.

Pikachu: With Agility, you use "While using..." in line 3 but "When using..." in line 7. Change the second one to "while using."

[Chardar]

Add in WA's fixes and it's good to go.

[NightSwipe]

Agreed.

[Kaiyu]

I just found this thread.

Charmader
-"Hit Zone" in Smokescreen should be capitalized
-in the middle of Ember ... "place a Burn Marker on that figure's Army Card"
-at the end of Ember ... "at the end of each round, all players must roll the 20-sided die for each figure with a Burn Marker on its Army Card.
If you roll a 1-10, place one wound marker on that figure's Army Card.
If you roll a 11-17, nothing happens.
If you roll an 18-20, remove the Burn Marker from that figure's Army Card.

Pikachu
-in Agility... "before, during, or after its movement.
-Thunderbolt: When this Pikachu attacks with its Thunderbolt Special Attack, it may attack one additional time.
-Double Team: When this Pikachu rolls defense dice against an opponent's figure who is not adjacent, add 2 dice to this Pikachu's defense.
-"Height" in Climb x2 should be capitalized.

Pidgey
Whirlwind: Instead of attacking with a Pidgey, you may choose one small or medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces whose base is no more than 5 levels above that Pidgey's base. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 9 or higher, move the chosen figure up to 4 spaces...

[White Knight]

Thanks kaiyu! Those changes do sound more official. I'll update the cards on Monday morning.

[White Knight]

Magnemite Picture and Picture Background Options

#1)http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefabaed95342200000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#2)http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefabb6446d55100000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#3)http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefaba9fa3b51d00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#4)http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefaba6120b5e100000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#5)http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefabb99db141a00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#6)http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefabb2e6dd55f00000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#7)http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefaba1cf174a600000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

#8 )http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d602b3127ccefabb4ed1d5d300000030O00BaM2zVw5csQe3nww/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[Chardar]

#4. I have the TCG card with that image and I think it looks great. With that logic I think it will also look good on our card. Note that this is referencing cards after they have been printed, which can look slightly different from cards on screen.

[BiggaBullfrog]

I agree with Chardar. #4.

[Kaiyu]

2 or 4

[mac122]

#7
Looks like the same Magnemite image as #4, but I like the lightning bolt behind it.

[Chardar]

#7
Looks like the same Magnemite image as #4, but I like the lightning bolt behind it.

The lightning bolt is cool, but didn't seem to suit Magnemite. He's a floating magnet, not a thunderbird. Digital or urban seemed the way to go.

[mac122]

#7
Looks like the same Magnemite image as #4, but I like the lightning bolt behind it.

The lightning bolt is cool, but didn't seem to suit Magnemite. He's a floating magnet, not a thunderbird. Digital or urban seemed the way to go.
Yes, he is a floating magnet...a floating magnet that can unleash Thundershock,,,
:blowup:

[NightSwipe]

#4.

[wulfhunter667]

#4 or #7. As usual, great freakin work guys. ;)

[fiddlerjones]

#4.

[Kaiyu]

Thundershock
"....20-sided die. If you roll an 18-20, place one Paralysis....."
"After reavealing an order marker on an Army Card with a Paralysis Status Marker, the player must roll the 20-sided die. If they roll a 1-5, the figure's turn ends immediately. If they roll a 6-18, subtract 1 space from the figure's Move for the remainder of the turn. If they roll a 19-20, remove the Paralysis Status Marker."

Lock-On
"If this Magnemite does not move this turn, you may add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled for its Thundershock Special Attack."

[White Knight]

#4 Magnemite was the Winner.

Updated Final cards for Charmander, Pikachu, Pidgey, and Magnemite are on the first page of this thread.

[White Knight]

SQUIRTLE OPTIONS

We need to select a picture for Squirtle, so time to vote again.

Option 1: Bubble Squirtle
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs403.snc4/46618_470392186756_745086756_6476659_2188758_n.jpg

Option 2: Underwater Squirtle
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs208.ash2/47128_470392206756_745086756_6476660_4546908_n.jpg

Option 3: Watergun Squirtle
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs408.snc4/47128_470392211756_745086756_6476661_4400797_n.jpg


Option 4: By the water Squirtle
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs670.snc4/61040_470392221756_745086756_6476662_3220661_n.jpg

Option 5: 3-D Squirtle
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs330.ash2/61040_470392226756_745086756_6476663_7740550_n.jpg

Option 6: Tough Squirtle
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs650.snc4/61040_470392231756_745086756_6476664_6021670_n.jpg

Option 7: Angry Squirtle
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs670.snc4/61040_470392236756_745086756_6476665_2415565_n.jpg
Option 8: "Classic Squirtle"
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs333.ash2/61339_470511636756_745086756_6478835_4683671_n.jpg


Comments or Votes?

[Kroz]

Wow...am I the only one that thinks that all of them except #1 are junk? Well not all of them. I just don't like that magnemite in #'s 2&4.

[fiddlerjones]

As far as Squirtle goes, I like Option 4 or Option 7.

[White Knight]

Wow...am I the only one that thinks that all of them except #1 are junk? Well not all of them. I just don't like that magnemite in #'s 2&4.

Magnemite or Squirtle?

And we MORE THAN WELCOME any pictures that anyone thinks would look good on the card. The Art Department tries to put together a good selection to choose from, but if you have a picture you think would be better, please, please post it we can quickly add it as an option. <hint>;)

[minimoose38]

Option 2 for Magnemite, Option 4 for Squirtle.
All of them look pretty cool though.

[Kaiyu]

I like the classic

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hkfSNfaVrQ8/SW3WQyt3G_I/AAAAAAAAAl8/qwu-dtbM4cI/s400/squirtle.gif

[White Knight]

I like the classic

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hkfSNfaVrQ8/SW3WQyt3G_I/AAAAAAAAAl8/qwu-dtbM4cI/s400/squirtle.gif

Added.

[NightSwipe]

Option 4 gets my vote, but I really like Option 6. :D

[Kaiyu]

I like Option 8 Squirtle, but NOT the background

[White Knight]

I like Option 8 Squirtle, but NOT the background

Do you have a background suggestion? Or at least can you describe what kind of background you think would look good with squirtle?

[Kaiyu]

I like Option 8 Squirtle, but NOT the background

Do you have a background suggestion? Or at least can you describe what kind of background you think would look good with squirtle?
Sorry not really :? just that boring lake scene doesn't sit well with me. I'll live if it stays, I just think there's probably something more aesthetically pleasing out there, I just wont know till I see it.

[Kroz]

Wow...am I the only one that thinks that all of them except #1 are junk? Well not all of them. I just don't like that magnemite in #'s 2&4.

Magnemite or Squirtle?

And we MORE THAN WELCOME any pictures that anyone thinks would look good on the card. The Art Department tries to put together a good selection to choose from, but if you have a picture you think would be better, please, please post it we can quickly add it as an option. <hint>;)

Sorry if it was a little unclear. It was Magnemite I was talking about.

[mac122]

Great job on the Squirtle options, WK! I'll go with Option #4.

[Chardar]

Option 4 Squirtle.

[wulfhunter667]

Option 4 Squirtle for me as well. Although 2 and 6 are cool and creative. One thing though, Range always comes before Attack in Special Attacks.

[Chardar]

#4 = 6 votes.
#7 = 1 vote.
#8 = 1 vote.

Anyone else?

[White Knight]

I like #2 the best, but I'll vote #4 because it's fiddler's Squirtle and he likes #4.

I vote Squirtle #4.

Any comments on the text?

[Chardar]

Other than range comes before attack like Wulf already said it looks good to me.

[Kaiyu]

Water Gun Special Attack
If this Squirtle is on a water space, you may roll 2 additional attack dice for this Squirtle's Water Gun Special Attack.

Reference: Mind Flayer Mastermind, Shiori

[Chardar]

Water Gun Special Attack
If this Squirtle is on a water space, you may roll 2 additional attack dice for this Squirtle's Water Gun Special Attack.

Reference: Mind Flayer Mastermind, Shiori

Straight from the expert. :)

Anything else or are we ready to pass?

[Kaiyu]

Water Gun Special Attack
If this Squirtle is on a water space, you may roll 2 additional attack dice for this Squirtle's Water Gun Special Attack.

Reference: Mind Flayer Mastermind, Shiori

Straight from the expert. :)

Anything else or are we ready to pass?
Nope, the rest should be good unless we want to discuss the wording of Withdraw. There are no examples from Heroscape to reference, so it isn't as obvious.

[Chardar]

I think we covered withdraw enough in the design process. If someone wants to change it that's fine, but it looks fine to me.

[White Knight]

Added Squirtle to first page

[White Knight]

SANDSHREW OPTIONS

Sandshrew #1: Jumping Sandshrew
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs339.ash2/61974_472538606756_745086756_6526383_6856636_n.jpg

Sandshrew #2: Cute Sandshrew
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs339.ash2/61974_472538601756_745086756_6526382_2264814_n.jpg

Sandshrew #3: Digging Sandshrew
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs339.ash2/61974_472538596756_745086756_6526381_1119603_n.jpg


Sandshrew #4: Prowling Sandshrew
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs699.snc4/61974_472538591756_745086756_6526380_447983_n.jpg

Sandshrew #5: Sandshrews from "I Choose You, Pikachu"
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs339.ash2/61974_472538586756_745086756_6526379_5339747_n.jpg

Sandshrew #6: Sandshrew with TCG background
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs679.snc4/61974_472538581756_745086756_6526378_979069_n.jpg

Sandshrew #7: Tunneling Sandshrew
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs328.ash2/60806_472538496756_745086756_6526376_4665396_n.jpg

Sandshrew #8: Sunset Sandshrew
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs648.snc4/60806_472538486756_745086756_6526374_2178800_n.jpg

Sandshrew #9: Sandshrew in Desert

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs328.ash2/60806_472538466756_745086756_6526372_5018667_n.jpg

As always, other picture and background suggestions are welcome!

[Kroz]

I like #9.

[Kaiyu]

Sandshrew #7 or #9

Sand Attack
“… within 2 clear sight spaces of this Sandshrew you may roll the….”

Tunneling
Someone needs to choose whether its “you may place” or “you may immediately place.”

“… is no more than 4 levels above or 3 levels below this Sandshrew’s base…”


Or if we don’t mind changing the down-slope to 4 levels we can cut some words out.

“… is no more than 4 levels above or below this Sandshrew’s base…”

[fiddlerjones]

Option #6 or Option #9

[White Knight]

Sandshrew #2 or #9

[mac122]

#9
Nice work, WK!

[NightSwipe]

Sandshrew #9. As said above, nice job, WK.

[Chardar]

6 or 9. How soon until we are ready to make our display thread? We've got to be getting close.

[minimoose38]

#9 for Sandshrew.

[White Knight]

Added Sandshrew to the first page.

[White Knight]

ABRA OPTIONS

Abra #1:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs314.ash2/59409_473947221756_745086756_6551658_1516463_n.jpg

Abra #2:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs314.ash2/59409_473947216756_745086756_6551657_5573795_n.jpg

Abra #3:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs634.snc4/59409_473947211756_745086756_6551656_347330_n.jpg

Abra #4:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs314.ash2/59409_473947206756_745086756_6551655_1405693_n.jpg

Abra #5:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs331.ash2/61158_473947166756_745086756_6551654_4601467_n.jpg

Abra #6:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs671.snc4/61158_473947161756_745086756_6551653_711383_n.jpg

Abra #7:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs651.snc4/61158_473947156756_745086756_6551652_4454649_n.jpg

Abra #8:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs331.ash2/61158_473947151756_745086756_6551651_3776104_n.jpg

Abra #9:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs630.snc4/59024_473947131756_745086756_6551650_960865_n.jpg

Abra #10:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs630.snc4/59024_473947126756_745086756_6551649_742010_n.jpg

Abra #11:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs655.snc4/61562_473947091756_745086756_6551648_2154341_n.jpg

As always, other pictures and backgrounds for Abra are welcome!

[Chardar]

Abra #3 or #11.

[Kaiyu]

Abra #1 or #11

[mac122]

#5
Though #1 or #11 would be fine, too.

[Kaiyu]

Teleport
"...When this Abra starts to teleport, if it is engaged it will not take any leaving..."

[Kaiyu]

Also, on Sandshrew it still says "you may place/you may immediately place." It should just say one or the other.

[fiddlerjones]

Option #3

[White Knight]

Also, on Sandshrew it still says "you may place/you may immediately place." It should just say one or the other.

Forgot about that.:duh:

I'll fix it on Monday.

[NightSwipe]

Abra #5 or #11.

[Kroz]

I like #3 and #6

[minimoose38]

Option 3 for Abra.

[Chardar]

Also, on Sandshrew it still says "you may place/you may immediately place." It should just say one or the other.

Forgot about that.:duh:

I'll fix it on Monday.

He needs a hit zone as well.

[White Knight]

Corrected Sandshrew posted to first page.

Abra posted to first page.

Scyther pictures coming soon.

[Chardar]

Around when will you have the Scyther images up?

[White Knight]

Around when will you have the Scyther images up?

By Friday, I hope.

[Chardar]

Around when will you have the Scyther images up?

By Friday, I hope.

Gives me something to do this weekend.

[mac122]

Around when will you have the Scyther images up?
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Misc%20Stuff/cleaner28.jpg
"You can't rush art!"

;)

[Chardar]

Fair enough. :lol:

When are we planning on creating a display thread? I know WA wanted to wait until we got a few units finalized. We've got to be getting close.

[White Knight]

Scyther Picture Options

(Note: I know about the "flyin" in Swords Dance. It's an MSE thing that I hope will be corrected when I load the newest version of MSE.)

#1) Running Scyther
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs681.snc4/62139_478004026756_745086756_6641893_3711936_n.jpg

#2) 3-D Scyther
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs335.ash2/61541_478004066756_745086756_6641894_4254992_n.jpg

#3) Ninja Green Scyther
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs335.ash2/61541_478004071756_745086756_6641895_3682646_n.jpg

#4) Running in the Grass Scyther
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs675.snc4/61541_478004076756_745086756_6641896_7081056_n.jpg

#5) Scyther Up Close
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs655.snc4/61541_478004081756_745086756_6641897_4151531_n.jpg

#6) Ninja Grass Scyther
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs680.snc4/62042_478004126756_745086756_6641898_6141302_n.jpg

#7) Scyther Facing Forward
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs340.ash2/62042_478004131756_745086756_6641899_4138808_n.jpg

#8 ) Ninja Bug Scyther
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs700.snc4/62042_478004136756_745086756_6641900_7968496_n.jpg

[White Knight]

I like the expression and feel of #5, but it doesn't show enough Scyther.

I vote for Scyther #8.

[NightSwipe]

I like Number 8 as well.

[wulfhunter667]

I am torn between Scyther#5 & #8. See what the rest of the group decides and tally mine with the majority.

[Warlord Alpha]

I am torn between Scyther#5 & #8. See what the rest of the group decides and tally mine with the majority.

I agree with this. Put me down for Scyther #5, though, just to split the vote a little.

[Kaiyu]

Scyther #3 or #6

Fury Cutter Special Attack
When this Scyther attacks with its Fury Cutter Special Attack, it may attack 3 additional times and each skull rolled counts for one additional hit.

[Kroz]

I like #5 personally.

[fiddlerjones]

Scyther #8. However, #5 would be a great picture to use for a unique version of scyther, you know, like "<Trainer's> Scyther."

[minimoose38]

1 or 6 for Scyther.

[White Knight]

Added Scyther to the first page.

Waiting on Charmeleon and Gastly in playtesting.