The Book of Bob, Agent of Hydra

[Master Tang]

The Book of Bob, Agent of Hydra

C3G MARVEL PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 1
THE LAW AND THE LAWLESS

http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_BobAgentOfHydra_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_BobAgentOfHydra_comic.pdf)

http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_BobAgentOfHydra_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_BobAgentOfHydra_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Sinister set.
Its number and name are #001-003 / Hydra Officer.
_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio -Bob is, in every respect, a normal guy. He signed up for HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31085) believing that they have a dental plan (which they don't), and made $40,000 a year. Bob kept a blog while he was at HYDRA, primarily remarking about the mundane like complaining about the commissary food. When Agent-X was captured when a pharmaceutical company hired him to infiltrate HYDRA, the mercenary known as Deadpool (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29561) mounted a rescue operation to free him and in the process liberated (kidnapped) Bob. Bob now assists Deadpool in his wacky adventures and acts as Deadpool's loyal pet....er...sidekick.
_________________________________________________________________


-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received


Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Human Unique Hero, Bob can be healed by Alfred Pennyworth's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30311) Field Medic special power.
If Deadpool (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29561) receives a wound, Bob can move if he's within clear sight and possibly wound the attacking figure.Synergy Benefits Offered


Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Human, Bob, Agent of HYDRA allows adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.________________________________________________________________ _


-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-


Initial Playest: IAmBatman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1149367&postcount=278)
Second Playtest: Hidicul (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1159244&postcount=384)
Third Playtest: NecroBlade (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1162671&postcount=410)

[quozl]

I know he's Deadpool's #1 fan but for this card, I would like to see him choose a unique hero at the start of the game.

[Adam Souza]

Green Arrow and Black Canary are linked with Cupid's Kiss. I don't really see an issue with Bob being tied to Deadpool.

[quozl]

Not a problem but just less interesting to me.

[Griffin]

Human
Unique Hero
Sidekick
Loyal
Medium 5

LIFE 3 (or 4) I think 3 to keep his cost down.
MOVE 5
RANGE 5
ATTACK 3
DEFENSE 3 This Superscape after all. :-)
POINTS 60?

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain that is at least 5 spaces higher than his base, and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage ignore all damage that would be inflicted by the attack.

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 5 clear sight spaces of Deadpool an opponent's figure, and that figure attacks Deadpool an Insane figure you control with a normal attack and that Insane figureDeadpool takes receives any wounds from that attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately takes receives one unblockable wound.

I don't think we need Hero to Hero specific synergy here, I think that synergy with an Insane figure would make him more draftable, and Deadpool would still be the best choice. Deadpool or the Insane figure doesn't have to be close to Bob for Bob to shoot the opponent's figure, but the opponent's figure does. Also, I think that this power should have the same range that Bob has for his normal attack since it is basically reflecting that. I love how this power will work well with Deadpool's Wisecrack power.

TACTICS OF RETREAT 101
Bob never takes leaving engagement attacks.
I don't know how necessary this power is, and it would be nice if Bob only had two very useful powers.





Below is my rewrite without any red marks.

Human
Unique Hero
Sidekick
Loyal
Medium 5

LIFE 3
MOVE 5
RANGE 5
ATTACK 3
DEFENSE 3
POINTS 60?

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain that is at least 5 spaces higher than his base, and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

#1 FAN
If Bob is within 5 clear sight spaces of an opponent's figure, and that figure attacks an Insane figure you control with a normal attack and that Insane figure receives any wounds from that attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

[Master Tang]

I kind of liked bob with Disengage, because it let him run away, which he does a lot. it felt kind of thematic, but I will make the changes that you asked for Griff.

[Wolvie]

Duuude! his already awesome, why would you change him:)
After griffin's suggestions, I see why ?
But I would keep all 3 powers though

[Scapemage]

I like this guy, but this is the Brainstorming Phase, aren't you jsut supposed to gather ideas? I don't thnk a write-up should be posted until the design phase, as collective ideas can completely change your design (as it did with mine).

[Griffin]

Hey man, I am wrong plenty of times, and this could be one of those times. If the Disengage is Iconic for him, by all means keep it, but I think it would be nice from a game designer aspect to have only two powers and a lower cost.

[Master Tang]

Well these are ideas to work with. Powers can be added, subtracted, or changed at the whim of the people. I just wanted to show people the general direction i want to go with this character.

Also, Griff I understand where you are coming from, but I think that the Disengage-like power would be a nice touch of theme for the card.

[Griffin]

I like this guy, but this is the Brainstorming Phase, aren't you jsut supposed to gather ideas? I don't thnk a write-up should be posted until the design phase, as collective ideas can completely change your design (as it did with mine).
Not true really. The Hero Brainstorming phase is much different than anything we do here or that you guys would be use to. We take singular notes months in advance on what each one of us is looking for on a design. Then the LD leads the initial design and 'may' draw from that pool if he wants to. We want to see the LD's creativity and leadership, it is encouraged.

[Balantai]

Before I even read anything, I just want to say: AWESOME!

[Griffin]

Well these are ideas to work with. Powers can be added, subtracted, or changed at the whim of the people. I just wanted to show people the general direction i want to go with this character.
That is exactly what we want as well. Plus constant updating to the first post. :D

[quozl]

My idea for Bob is a much more generic one.

I would like to see Griffin's Insane restriction lifted, Disengage reinstated, and Hiding Places 301 renamed as Camouflage 8.

[Griffin]

My idea for Bob is a much more generic one.

I would like to see Griffin's Insane restriction lifted, Disengage reinstated, and Hiding Place 301 renamed as Camouflage 8.
Do you think that Bob should only be a good draft choice if you have Deadpool in your Army? Because he doesn't offer much else if he is Deadpool specific. Green Arrow and Black Canary at least do.

[quozl]

My idea for Bob is a much more generic one.

I would like to see Griffin's Insane restriction lifted, Disengage reinstated, and Hiding Place 301 renamed as Camouflage 8.
Do you think that Bob should only be a good draft choice if you have Deadpool in your Army? Because he doesn't offer much else if he is Deadpool specific. Green Arrow and Black Canary at least do.

No, I want the only restriction to be a Unique Hero picked at the start of the game.

[Griffin]

My idea for Bob is a much more generic one.

I would like to see Griffin's Insane restriction lifted, Disengage reinstated, and Hiding Place 301 renamed as Camouflage 8.
Do you think that Bob should only be a good draft choice if you have Deadpool in your Army? Because he doesn't offer much else if he is Deadpool specific. Green Arrow and Black Canary at least do.

No, I want the only restriction to be a Unique Hero picked at the start of the game.
Yeah, I could go with that. :up:

[Master Tang]

Hmmm...The Unique Hero idea may be better, how about this:
#1 Fan
At the start of the game, choose a Unique Hero you control, to be Bob's Hero.If Bob is within 5 clear sight spaces of an opponent's figure, and that figure attacks his Hero with a normal attack and his Hero receives any wounds from that attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

[Wolvie]

I like the tactics of retreat, but maybe it should just be called COWARD That would explain his reason to have the power for guys who doe not know him that well :)

[Balantai]

I disagree with quozl and Griff. I'd hate to see people drafting Bob with Superman so that he it gives him a further defensive advantage. I, personally, really liked Griffin's Insane restriction. It's thematic.

Also, running away, is one of Bob's most defining characteristics. Disengage shows that nicely.

I could see reducing Bob's attack and defense to 2. He's supposed to be weak, even for a Hydra agent. This will also allow you to keep his cost really low. I could see Bob end up being 30 - 50 pts.

[Master Tang]

I see what you mean about the Insane Personality maybe being superior so it doesn't break people like Superman.

Bob is weak, but he runs around with Deadpool (and even with captain America and Bucky for a little) so I think he is a little better than a Generic Hydra Agent.

[quozl]

I disagree with quozl and Griff. I'd hate to see people drafting Bob with Superman so that he it gives him a further defensive advantage.

But Special Attacks are the way to go against Superman. Bob wouldn't be able to help with those.

[Griffin]

I disagree with quozl and Griff. I'd hate to see people drafting Bob with Superman so that he it gives him a further defensive advantage. I, personally, really liked Griffin's Insane restriction. It's thematic.

Also, running away, is one of Bob's most defining characteristics. Disengage shows that nicely.

I could see reducing Bob's attack and defense to 2. He's supposed to be weak, even for a Hydra agent. This will also allow you to keep his cost really low. I could see Bob end up being 30 - 50 pts.
Siding with this guy. :up:

[Wolvie]

I disagree with quozl and Griff. I'd hate to see people drafting Bob with Superman so that he it gives him a further defensive advantage. I, personally, really liked Griffin's Insane restriction. It's thematic.

Also, running away, is one of Bob's most defining characteristics. Disengage shows that nicely.

I could see reducing Bob's attack and defense to 2. He's supposed to be weak, even for a Hydra agent. This will also allow you to keep his cost really low. I could see Bob end up being 30 - 50 pts.
Siding with this guy. :up:

I remember we had this discusion when we he went through UCS,
And he's weak yes, but he's running around with an AK47 and he's survived and helped deadpool alot, like MT said even fought alongside cap and bucky, + personnaly I wouldn't draft him with 2 defense, and attack, that would just feel like a waste of points to me..

[Xn F M]

So am I over thinking this here, or should he technically be "Hydra Agent (Bob)"?

[Wolvie]

naah, he's not at Hydra anymore, he just never laid of the suit..

[Master Tang]

The "H" is for "Hero". He is always introduced as Bob, Agent of Hydra even though he's not a part of Hydra anymore.

[Balantai]

Here's something to consider. Since Deadpool is 285 points, I'd love to see Bob end up at 65 pts. At the very least, you should consider his point cost ending in 5 so that he's a nice fit for Deadpool.

[Master Tang]

Here's something to consider. Since Deadpool is 285 points, I'd love to see Bob end up at 65 pts. At the very least, you should consider his point cost ending in 5 so that he's a nice fit for Deadpool.
That would be pretty cool.

[GreyOwl]

I disagree with quozl and Griff. I'd hate to see people drafting Bob with Superman so that he it gives him a further defensive advantage. I, personally, really liked Griffin's Insane restriction. It's thematic.

Also, running away, is one of Bob's most defining characteristics. Disengage shows that nicely.

I could see reducing Bob's attack and defense to 2. He's supposed to be weak, even for a Hydra agent. This will also allow you to keep his cost really low. I could see Bob end up being 30 - 50 pts.
Siding with this guy. :up:

I'm also in favor of the insane hero restriction.

[Lord Pyre]

That'd be awesome... An army with Deadpool, Bob, Joker, Harley, Ivy...

Haha, should be fun! :p

[quozl]

That'd be awesome... An army with Deadpool, Bob, Joker, Harley, Ivy...

Haha, should be fun! :p

If you restrict it to Insane, (which I still don't think is needed or particularly thematic), would you have Bob choose one at the start of the game or let him work with all insane heroes?

[Master Tang]

That'd be awesome... An army with Deadpool, Bob, Joker, Harley, Ivy...

Haha, should be fun! :p

If you restrict it to Insane, (which I still don't think is needed or particularly thematic), would you have Bob choose one at the start of the game or let him work with all insane heroes?
I'm taking it that it works will all Insane Heroes.

[Adam Souza]

Hiding Places 301 and Tactics of Retreat 101 are comic book references to Bob's time in Hydra. I'd really like to see those names stay.

[Master Tang]

Hiding Places 301 and Tactics of Retreat 101 are comic book references to Bob's time in Hydra. I'd really like to see those names stay.
As do I, which is why I haven't bothered changing them. I feel that they are essential for keeping this card feeling like Bob.

[Adam Souza]

If this goes with the insane restirction, maybe change the name to CRAZY FAN ;)

I'm feeling 65 points, for increased utility of Fan power and Deadpool 350 point pairing potential.

[Master Tang]

If this goes with the insane restirction, maybe change the name to CRAZY FAN ;)

I'm feeling 65 points, for increased utility of Fan power and Deadpool 350 point pairing potential.
Ooooh that's a good idea, I am thinking CRAZED FAN, slightly different, but I think it sounds smoother.

[NecroBlade]

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain that is at least 5 spaces higher than his basewith height higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.



#1 FAN
If Bob is within 5 clear sight spaces of an opponent's figure, and that figure attacks an Insane figure you control with a normal attack and that Insane figure receives any wounds from thatan opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on an Insane figure you control with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.


Suggested changes.

I also like the idea of his points ending in 5 to make him + Deadpool more desirable (I wouldn't mind #1 Fan working only for Deadpool, but I'm not going to win that fight). I could see lowering his Defense to 2 based on the weak description, then maybe 55 points.

[Master Tang]

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain that is at least 5 spaces higher than his basewith height higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.



#1 FAN
If Bob is within 5 clear sight spaces of an opponent's figure, and that figure attacks an Insane figure you control with a normal attack and that Insane figure receives any wounds from thatan opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on an Insane figure you control with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.


Suggested changes.

I also like the idea of his points ending in 5 to make him + Deadpool more desirable (I wouldn't mind #1 Fan working only for Deadpool, but I'm not going to win that fight). I could see lowering his Defense to 2 based on the weak description, then maybe 55 points.
Thanks for the wording changes and I see what you mean about Bob only working with Deadpool, but this way he has more Synergy. if we ever need to lower his cost we could make it Deadpool specific lol.

[Adam Souza]

If this goes with the insane restirction, maybe change the name to CRAZY FAN ;)

I'm feeling 65 points, for increased utility of Fan power and Deadpool 350 point pairing potential.
Ooooh that's a good idea, I am thinking CRAZED FAN, slightly different, but I think it sounds smoother.

CRAZED FAN sounds more accurate than #1 FAN, especially where it may apply to more than one charecter. Now he's than FAN of all who are CRAZED

[NecroBlade]

:word:

[Griffin]

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain that is at least 5 spaces higher than his basewith height higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.



#1 FAN
If Bob is within 5 clear sight spaces of an opponent's figure, and that figure attacks an Insane figure you control with a normal attack and that Insane figure receives any wounds from thatan opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on an Insane figure you control with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.


Suggested changes.

I also like the idea of his points ending in 5 to make him + Deadpool more desirable (I wouldn't mind #1 Fan working only for Deadpool, but I'm not going to win that fight). I could see lowering his Defense to 2 based on the weak description, then maybe 55 points.
Good stuff IMO, except for that whole Deadpool specific ability. ;)

[Griffin]

CRAZED FAN sounds perfect to me.

[Master Tang]

CRAZED FAN sounds perfect to me.
Sounds perfect for you, too. :D

[Adam Souza]

http://www.farinatoysandcards.com/new/catalog/images/heroclix/HMSN_002

Sinister 001,002,003

It's more attractive than the common Hydra Agent Figure, and it will stand apart from them if we ever make a Hydra Agent Common Squad.

I just bought a few on Troll and Toad for $.89

[Master Tang]

http://www.farinatoysandcards.com/new/catalog/images/heroclix/HMSN_002

Sinister 001,002,003

It's more attractive than the common Hydra Agent Figure, and it will stand apart from them if we ever make a Hydra Agent Common Squad.

I just bought a few on Troll and Toad for $.89
Yea it's costume is pretty much Identical to Bob's costume anyways, and I already put it on the front page a the figure. Thanks for finding the numbers though.

[IAmBatman]

I really like what's in the first post. Just a couple of notes:
1) I think he should be a "Fanboy" or a "Mascot" not a "Sidekick."
2) I believe the correct wording is "figure with the Insane personality."
3) Theoryscaping, but I think his current cost is probably closer to 75 points.

[Master Tang]

I put "Sidekick" because he is Deadpool's sidekick, "
A close companion or comrade.", but I changed him to Fanboy because that fits too. I also fixed the wording issue for Crazed Fan.

[IAmBatman]

:thumbsup:
I thought Marvel "didn't do" Sidekicks ... at least not since the WWII era when Toro and Bucky were around in Sidekick form.

[Master Tang]

:thumbsup:
I thought Marvel "didn't do" Sidekicks ... at least not since the WWII era when Toro and Bucky were around in Sidekick form.
They don't call him a "sidekick", but he follows Deadpool around and helps him out when he needs it. He is literally the definition of sidekick for Deadpool. Fanboy fits him equally as well though.

[IAmBatman]

In order to be a sidekick, though, you need to be embraced by your "mentor" at some point. I don't get the impression that Deadpool gives him that kind of treatment.
Anyway, I won't belabor the point, since I talked you into Fanboy. :-D

[Hidicul]

Is there any way of wording Crazed Fan so that it only works for one figure without breaking the higher powered ones like Superman? I'm just not really sure that working for any insane figures would really be thematic to me. If not then it works since I agree he NEEDS a power like this.

[IAmBatman]

Well if he's Deadpool's fan boy, he's obviously most attracted to the crazy types. I like the Insane personality restriction as is a lot.

[Master Tang]

Well if he's Deadpool's fan boy sidekick, he's obviously most attracted to the crazy types. I like the Insane personality restriction as is a lot.
:lol:

[Griffin]

Is there any way of wording Crazed Fan so that it only works for one figure without breaking the higher powered ones like Superman? I'm just not really sure that working for any insane figures would really be thematic to me. If not then it works since I agree he NEEDS a power like this.
Then you don't have to play it that way. ;) Raelin's and Taelord's auras could have been faction specific, but they are not, and if someone doesn't like that, they simply do not draft it. The point is, sometimes creators like to throw a bone out to the imaginative people who like to think for themselves. The Gladiator Army, like the X-Men Army, are great and powerful, but the theme, powers, points, and entire team is already thought out for you, and there are plenty of people who care more about mishmash armies like Jotun and Nakitas, Theracus and Agent Skahen, Taelord and Snipers, Raelin and Rats, etc. And those creative thinkers/players/army builders need some lovin too. :D

[Hidicul]

Well if he's Deadpool's fan boy, he's obviously most attracted to the crazy types. I like the Insane personality restriction as is a lot.
I agree that it would fit, I was just wondering about it working for more then one figure a game:reapershrug:

[IAmBatman]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.
Are you saying it won't work on enough figures (because we already have Joker, Poison Ivy, and Deadpool who have the Insane personality).
Or are you saying that it's unthematic for it to work on multiple figures? (I don't have an issue with this, personally).

[Matt Helm]

I really like what's in the first post. Just a couple of notes:
1) I think he should be a "Fanboy" or a "Mascot" not a "Sidekick."
2) I believe the correct wording is "figure with the Insane personality."
3) Theoryscaping, but I think his current cost is probably closer to 75 points.

1) What about "Fanatic" as his class?
2) I actually think one of the new cards sets the predent for "unique insane hero"
3) Bob?!?!? are we finally ready for She-Thing next?

[Hahma]

I really like the way Bob is coming along. Great job fellas :thumbsup:

At this point I don't see a problem with Crazed Fan working on any Uniique Hero figure with Insane personality. He will certainly help the Insane types vs. nearby squaddies as they have only normal attacks. Certainly we have a few Insane types thus far, but it's not always easy to keep Bob within 5 spaces of all of them if they are in the same army. Bob doesn't have bonding, so sometimes it will be difficult to keep him within range or you'll have to use OMs on him to get him in CF range, when you could be using that OM elsewhere. But then again, if he can use an OM to move to height and attack with 4 and then be in range for CF, then that can be pretty useful.

If it seems like it's too crazy good, the d20 requirement can always be bumped up to make it less powerful to keep him in an appropriate price range.

[Adam Souza]

I think his class should be Fanboi .

Bob is way past being an average Fanboy.

[Master Tang]

I really like what's in the first post. Just a couple of notes:
1) I think he should be a "Fanboy" or a "Mascot" not a "Sidekick."
2) I believe the correct wording is "figure with the Insane personality."
3) Theoryscaping, but I think his current cost is probably closer to 75 points.

1) What about "Fanatic" as his class?
2) I actually think one of the new cards sets the predent for "unique insane hero"
3) Bob?!?!? are we finally ready for She-Thing next?
I think She-Thing will probably come around after The Fantastic Four gets created. Sheesh, these older folks, they don't even know what customs have been made. :D JK Matt. I'll look into that wording more for the Crazed Fan power.

[Hahma]

http://www.farinatoysandcards.com/new/catalog/images/heroclix/HMSN_002

Sinister 001,002,003

It's more attractive than the common Hydra Agent Figure, and it will stand apart from them if we ever make a Hydra Agent Common Squad.

I just bought a few on Troll and Toad for $.89


Hmmmmmm...........

[Hahma]

I really like what's in the first post. Just a couple of notes:
1) I think he should be a "Fanboy" or a "Mascot" not a "Sidekick."
2) I believe the correct wording is "figure with the Insane personality."
3) Theoryscaping, but I think his current cost is probably closer to 75 points.

1) What about "Fanatic" as his class?
2) I actually think one of the new cards sets the predent for "unique insane hero"
3) Bob?!?!? are we finally ready for She-Thing next?
I think She-Thing will probably come around after The Fantastic Four gets created. Sheesh, these older folks, they don't even know what customs have been made. :D JK Matt. I'll look into that wording more for the Crazed Fan power.

I'd prefer the Crazed Fan to only work on Unique Hero figures. If there was ever a squad unit that came out with insane personality or even a common hero with insane personality, it wouldn't seem thematic to me for him to be a fan of those figures. And I don't know that I'd want squads to get protection from Bob.

I know the Greenscale Warriors choose a Unique Lizardfolk Hero. I can't recall the other official ones. But I know we're working on wording like that for someone at the moment.

[Master Tang]

Well I'll fix it so that he's only a fan of unique heroes, but we decided that him choosing a hero wasn't the right way to go.

[Hahma]

Well I'll fix it that he's only a fan of unique heroes, but we decided that him choosing a hero wasn't the right way to go.

I thought that you guys were talking about him choosing only 1 Hero at the start of the game for Crazed Fan to work for or something like that or only it working with Deadpool and decided against it. I may have misunderstood the discussion while I was trying to catch up on the thread.

Anyway, if it was discussed and decided upon, I'll leave you to it.

[Hidicul]

Is there any way of wording Crazed Fan so that it only works for one figure without breaking the higher powered ones like Superman? I'm just not really sure that working for any insane figures would really be thematic to me. If not then it works since I agree he NEEDS a power like this.
Then you don't have to play it that way. ;) Raelin's and Taelord's auras could have been faction specific, but they are not, and if someone doesn't like that, they simply do not draft it. The point is, sometimes creators like to throw a bone out to the imaginative people who like to think for themselves. The Gladiator Army, like the X-Men Army, are great and powerful, but the theme, powers, points, and entire team is already thought out for you, and there are plenty of people who care more about mishmash armies like Jotun and Nakitas, Theracus and Agent Skahen, Taelord and Snipers, Raelin and Rats, etc. And those creative thinkers/players/army builders need some lovin too. :D
Yes Griff that is always an answer, though I like to play everything a some point or other. So this wont keep me from playing him and possably using im on a semi-regular basis;)

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.
Are you saying it won't work on enough figures (because we already have Joker, Poison Ivy, and Deadpool who have the Insane personality).
Or are you saying that it's unthematic for it to work on multiple figures? (I don't have an issue with this, personally).
I was refering to it working on to many figures, but since I've been out voted by everyone likeing the way it works, other then it working on squads and commons, I'm ok with it.

[Master Tang]

Well I'll fix it that he's only a fan of unique heroes, but we decided that him choosing a hero wasn't the right way to go.

I thought that you guys were talking about him choosing only 1 Hero at the start of the game for Crazed Fan to work for or something like that or only it working with Deadpool and decided against it. I may have misunderstood the discussion while I was trying to catch up on the thread.

Anyway, if it was discussed and decided upon, I'll leave you to it.
Were you talking about choosing one Unique Insane Hero? I think that was also shot down, but I am unsure if it fully came up. I think it's better off without it because this way he is more versatile.

[Griffin]

Harley Quinn is also Insane... oops... So I am really looking forward to having an Insane-Army with Bob as Bob the insane-army builder. :woot: Ahhh they are all Insane!!!!

I think I am gonna call him Bob the builder from now on.

[Hidicul]

Harley Quinn is also Insane... oops... So I am really looking forward to having an Insane-Army. :woot: Ahhh they are all Insane!!!!
I'll admit that Bob's power as is would make running an insane army cool, and just might have the synergy to mae it competitive, of course then we just need tourneys that allow C3G;)
</IMG></IMG>

[Master Tang]

Something seems wrong about basing your entire team on a 65-75pt figure. lol

[Grungebob]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.

[Hidicul]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
I belive it was a compromise since it was decided not to make it so he only had the synergy with Deadpool.

[Grungebob]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
I belive it was a compromise since it was decided not to make it so he only had the synergy with Deadpool.It just seems like an odd personality trait to develop synergy around.

[Hidicul]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
I belive it was a compromise since it was decided not to make it so he only had the synergy with Deadpool.It just seems like an odd personality trait to develop synergy around.
He is pretty much Deadpool's sidekick, and since Deadpool is insane they went the personality for the synergy. It's all based on Deadpool without him being the only one to benefit from it thus giving Bob more playability.

[Griffin]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
hidicul is pretty much answering your question, but I figured I would chime in as well. I know that Insane seems to be the last Personality that most people would want to synergize with, I know. But Bob here isn't most people. He isn't necessarily crazy himself, but he is obsessed with Deadpool who is Insane, and he is obsessed with him in an odd way that insinuates that he either has a gay crush on him, or he is drawn to the personalities of Insane people, much like the lackeys who are often drawn to work with the Joker.

[Grungebob]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
hidicul is pretty much answering your question, but I figured I would chime in as well. I know that Insane seems to be the last Personality that most people would want to synergize with, I know. But Bob here isn't most people. He isn't necessarily crazy himself, but he is obsessed with Deadpool who is Insane, and he is obsessed with him in an odd way that insinuates that he either has a gay crush on him, or he is drawn to the personalities of Insane people, much like the lackeys who are often drawn to work with the Joker.Its my understanding that he has a connection to Deadpool through their adventures or misadventures, not because Deadpool is insane.

[Hidicul]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
hidicul is pretty much answering your question, but I figured I would chime in as well. I know that Insane seems to be the last Personality that most people would want to synergize with, I know. But Bob here isn't most people. He isn't necessarily crazy himself, but he is obsessed with Deadpool who is Insane, and he is obsessed with him in an odd way that insinuates that he either has a gay crush on him, or he is drawn to the personalities of Insane people, much like the lackeys who are often drawn to work with the Joker.
That's a good way of putting it Griff, thanks for organizing my thoughts into a good post;)
</IMG>

[IAmBatman]

If it seems like it's too crazy good, the d20 requirement can always be bumped up to make it less powerful to keep him in an appropriate price range.

I could see this happening as well.


Were you talking about choosing one Unique Insane Hero? I think that was also shot down, but I am unsure if it fully came up. I think it's better off without it because this way he is more versatile.

I agree. I'd be against taking a Lizardfolk direction here. I think the way it is on the first post is great.

It just seems like an odd personality trait to develop synergy around.

My impression of Bob is that he's a pretty odd guy. But, this is only based on reading context clues around here, I've never read a comic with Deadpool or Bob in it.

[Griffin]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
hidicul is pretty much answering your question, but I figured I would chime in as well. I know that Insane seems to be the last Personality that most people would want to synergize with, I know. But Bob here isn't most people. He isn't necessarily crazy himself, but he is obsessed with Deadpool who is Insane, and he is obsessed with him in an odd way that insinuates that he either has a gay crush on him, or he is drawn to the personalities of Insane people, much like the lackeys who are often drawn to work with the Joker.Its my understanding that he has a connection to Deadpool through their adventures or misadventures, not because Deadpool is insane.
Hmmmm.... I was not under that impression, and I am admittedly much more of DC buff. We need that darn Spidey symbol. Hey Necro, can you get that Spidey Symbol up and running. Spidey'tilIDie is our extreme geeky comic encyclopedia.
Anyone else know this Bob guy very well? Specifically, we need to know why he is fascinated with Deadpool.

[IAmBatman]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
hidicul is pretty much answering your question, but I figured I would chime in as well. I know that Insane seems to be the last Personality that most people would want to synergize with, I know. But Bob here isn't most people. He isn't necessarily crazy himself, but he is obsessed with Deadpool who is Insane, and he is obsessed with him in an odd way that insinuates that he either has a gay crush on him, or he is drawn to the personalities of Insane people, much like the lackeys who are often drawn to work with the Joker.Its my understanding that he has a connection to Deadpool through their adventures or misadventures, not because Deadpool is insane.

Are those two things necessarily that mutually exclusive, though? Deadpool's misadventures (I'm led to believe) normally take place due to his insane personality and that personality, not just the misadventures, seems to be something Bob is a fan of.

[Grungebob]

Ok, I just gotta ask. Why does he have synergy just with insane heroes? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
hidicul is pretty much answering your question, but I figured I would chime in as well. I know that Insane seems to be the last Personality that most people would want to synergize with, I know. But Bob here isn't most people. He isn't necessarily crazy himself, but he is obsessed with Deadpool who is Insane, and he is obsessed with him in an odd way that insinuates that he either has a gay crush on him, or he is drawn to the personalities of Insane people, much like the lackeys who are often drawn to work with the Joker.Its my understanding that he has a connection to Deadpool through their adventures or misadventures, not because Deadpool is insane.

Are those two things necessarily that mutually exclusive, though? Deadpool's misadventures (I'm led to believe) normally take place due to his insane personality and that personality, not just the misadventures, seems to be something Bob is a fan of.

Ok fellas, I'll leave ya to it. I think you're shoe horning this one. Bob is an interesting and entertaining comic character. I hope you guys can capture his quirky dynamism.

[IAmBatman]

You probably know better than I do. :reapershrug: I really don't know the character. Maybe our LD, who does, should reconsider this direction, then.

[Griffin]

This is really where we need Spidey to come in here and lay down the law on the character.

[Lord Pyre]

I like the whole Insane army synergy thing.

But I've never heard of Bob before, so GBob makes a good point! :p

[NecroBlade]

http://comiccoverage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345158e369e200e553b4d79a8834-320wi

[Adam Souza]

He's like Deadpool's biggest and only fan. He thinks Wade is a guy who's got it together, which speaks volumes about how monumentally dysfunctional Bob is. He's kind of a supplicating sycophant
A cowardly young man, Bob was persuaded into joining the criminal organization HYDRA by his wife, Allison, who accused him of not being able to hold a steady job. The thought of a stable career with a dental plan also appealed to Bob, though he was disappointed to find out HYDRA does not offer full dental like AIM. During Deadpool's assault on HYDRA to rescue the captured Agent X, he ran into Bob and coerced him into helping him. Bob was hesitant, as HYDRA would not allow him back into the organization having betrayed them, but Deadpool, at the time four inches tall, tortured him with a security card until he relented. He then forced Bob to fly them to safety in one of HYDRA's jets, though Bob did not know how to pilot an aircraft

Bob started out as a hostage. Add a little bit of Stokholm Syndrome, and a lot of Fan Boy

[NecroBlade]

I know people want the Insane Personality thing for more synergy, but has Bob ever been shown to idolize any other nutcases? He pretty much exclusively shows up in Deadpool comics following Deadpool around, right?

Just make it a Deadpool synergy. He's going to be a cheap filler unit anyway.

[IAmBatman]

It would lower his cost. I think I'd be fine with that. It'd definitely limit his playability severely - but with a niche character like this, I don't really care. If it were someone iconic, I'd be annoyed by limited draftability, but not so much here.

[Griffin]

I know people want the Insane Personality thing for more synergy, but has Bob ever been shown to idolize any other nutcases? He pretty much exclusively shows up in Deadpool comics following Deadpool around, right?

Just make it a Deadpool synergy. He's going to be a cheap filler unit anyway.

I wish Bats hadn't posted, because now it is just gonna seem like I am agreeing with him, but I think you and Gbob have sold me on the character specificness of Bob the Builder. And what is cool for me is, I can still put him in my Insane Army, even though Deadpool is only one to benefit from the synergy, it is a perfect synergy between the two of them. Fan and Wisecrack go together really nicely, almost as good as Robin and Batman. ;)

[Lord Pyre]

If Bob is restricted to only Deadpool, I think I'd like him to be significantly cheaper. He's such a minor character, anyway, so maybe 40 at the most would feel right to me. And also, it'd be okay if you felt you didn't HAVE to draft both of them together.


Just my thoughts, however vague and unhelpful they are. :p

[IAmBatman]

I think some of his D20 rolls might have to go up (or his defense might have to drop to 2) to accomplish 40 points. I do think he's probably back down to 65 with the Insane personality thing being changed to be Deadpool specific.

[Adam Souza]

Green Arrow and Black Canary are linked with Cupid's Kiss. I don't really see an issue with Bob being tied to Deadpool.

8 pages and you come round...

Linked to Deadpool

More thematic
Less Draftable
Cheaper


Linked to the Insane

Less thematic
More Draftable
More expensive

[IAmBatman]

I usually prefer more draftable, but not if it's going to be a theme break for people.

[Griffin]

Green Arrow and Black Canary are linked with Cupid's Kiss. I don't really see an issue with Bob being tied to Deadpool.

8 pages and you come round...

Linked to Deadpool
More thematic
Less Draftable
Cheaper
Linked to the Insane
Less thematic
More Draftable
More expensive
Well now we all know why your Sidekick on the heels of being a Hero right? ;)

[Griffin]

If Bob is restricted to only Deadpool, I think I'd like him to be significantly cheaper. He's such a minor character, anyway, so maybe 40 at the most would feel right to me. And also, it'd be okay if you felt you didn't HAVE to draft both of them together.


Just my thoughts, however vague and unhelpful they are. :p
I agree with you completely. I want to jack this guy up now to get him down to 25 points, and that is doable, just give him a life of 1 like Isamu.

[Adam Souza]

I agree with you completely. I want to jack this guy up now to get him down to 25 points, and that is doable, just give him a life of 1 like Isamu.

If were looking for something along the lines of Isamu, which would be awesome BTW, how about making it easier for him to hide?

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain with height equal to 2 or higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/isamu.jpg

This way Bob still needs to be near something he can duck and hide behind, but it should be easier for him to do.

Also, I'd like to see his move increased to 6. Thematically, he's pretty good at running away. Mechanically, it should help him not get stuck out in the open.

[Griffin]

:word: to everything Adam said. Seriously. :up:

[Hahma]

Were you talking about choosing one Unique Insane Hero? I think that was also shot down, but I am unsure if it fully came up. I think it's better off without it because this way he is more versatile.

I agree. I'd be against taking a Lizardfolk direction here. I think the way it is on the first post is great.


The only reason I mentioned the Greenscale Warriors and Lizardfolk thing was for how the wording Unique Insane Hero could be taken from it per Matt Helm's comments, instead of Unique Hero with the Insane Personality. I didn't mean for him to choose one UH to bond with. :D

:word: to everything Adam said. Seriously. :up:

Me to.

Hmmm....I do recall someone mention Isamu before ;)

Could he use a movement bonding help with Deadpool? I kind of changed up Crazy Fan to try to accomplish this. I don't know if anyone wants do do this, but I thought I'd offer it just in case.

#1 Fanboy
If an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds with a normal attack against Deadpool you control and Deadpool is within clear sight of Bob, you may move Bob up to 6 spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.


This would lessen the OM's needed for Bob and make use of his Tactics of Retreat 101 more because if he's engaged and Deadpool is in sight and receives a wound, Bob can come a running to the rescue.

[Grungebob]

I think you guys are now on the right track. Why not increase his move when disengaging?

[SirGalahad]

I think you guys are now on the right track. Why not increase his move when disengaging?

BRILLIANT! (goes to get his Guiness)

I love how GB has taken an interest in a character with his namesake.

[IAmBatman]

The only reason I mentioned the Greenscale Warriors and Lizardfolk thing was for how the wording Unique Insane Hero could be taken from it per Matt Helm's comments, instead of Unique Hero with the Insane Personality. I didn't mean for him to choose one UH to bond with. :D

Oh, I never thought you did. Some of the others seemed to be toying with/interested in this idea, though. :-) So it was something I wanted to come out against strongly.
If we're making his powers better for the most part, are we also lowering his stats, or just upping his cost?

[NecroBlade]

So...


Increase ability to use Hiding Places 301 (2 levels instead of 5)
Increase Move when Disengaging (+2 Move when Bob starts his turn engaged and leaves engagement?)
Make Crazed Fan only work with Deadpool
Increase HP301 roll? 9-10
Increase CF roll? (not necessary if Deadpool specific, IMO)
Don't forget to end his points in 5And Tang, don't forget these wording changes (update the first post):
HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain that is at least 5 spaces higher than his basewith height higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

#1 FAN
If Bob is within 5 clear sight spaces of an opponent's figure, and that figure attacks an Insane figure you control with a normal attack and that Insane figure receives any wounds from thatan opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on an Insane figure you control with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.


Suggested changes.

I also like the idea of his points ending in 5 to make him + Deadpool more desirable (I wouldn't mind #1 Fan working only for Deadpool, but I'm not going to win that fight). I could see lowering his Defense to 2 based on the weak description, then maybe 55 points.[/quote]

[IAmBatman]

I think both the rolls can stay the same if his life and/or defense are dropped some.
Otherwise, I'm on board with everything you've got there, Necro.
Also, according to the most recently proposed wording for his hiding power, if he's standing on a 2 high hex, and is adjacent to a 3 high hex, he can use his hiding power, right? Was that the intention of the power? It seems the mechanics shifted a bit in that rewording.

[Adam Souza]

I don't think we need to increase his hiding places roll. Isamu gets a 9 without needed to be near terrain for 10 points. Bob currently has an 8, but he needs to be near terrain. If they catch him in the deployment zone or out in the open during the game, he's dead, and the lowest I've ehard thrown out for him is 25 points.

[Adam Souza]

I think both the rolls can stay the same if his life and/or defense are dropped some.
Otherwise, I'm on board with everything you've got there, Necro.
Also, according to the most recently proposed wording for his hiding power, if he's standing on a 2 high hex, and is adjacent to a 3 high hex, he can use his hiding power, right? Was that the intention of the power? It seems the mechanics shifted a bit in that rewording.

When you check height for adjacentcy you always start from the level the model is standing on. I don't see why it would be any different for Bob.

[IAmBatman]

Good stuff, Necro! :thumbsup:
And I'm not sure I'm seeing how he's worse than Me-Burq-Sa right now (50 points). So I think 25 would be way too low with his current powers and stats.

[IAmBatman]

Whoops, Necro this should read:

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain with height higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

right? Otherwise, it'd have to be 6 hexes high again.

[NecroBlade]

Oh, I also forgot "lower Defense to 2" - that was mentioned earlier because he was considered "weak" for a HYDRA agent, but I don't think it got much discussion. It could help keep his cost down (I'd say 55 at that point) and HP301 is easier to use to compensate.

[IAmBatman]

I'd say 55 at that point as well. If we want to go lower we'd have to lower his life as well.

[NecroBlade]

Well it *was* height higher than Bob's, should have been equal or higher, but that's moot if we're going with terrain of 2 levels (period) or more.

[quozl]

So is there where we're at now?

Bob, Agent of Hydra
Human
Unique Hero
Fanboy
Loyal
Medium 5

LIFE 3
MOVE 6
RANGE 5
ATTACK 3
DEFENSE 2
POINTS 55

DEADPOOL's #1 FAN
If an opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

TACTICS OF RETREAT 101
Bob never takes leaving engagement attacks. If Bob begins his turn engaged, he may move an additional 2 spaces this turn.

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain with height higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

[IAmBatman]

Yep, I think that's it exactly.

[johnny139]

When it says "terrain with height higher than Bob's base," does that mean... like, if he's on Level 1, and next a tile that's Level 2, he it'll work? If so, I dunno, that seems a bit unlikely. Two height I could see - if he really got down - but only one height seems a bit too small a place to physically hide.

Also, MAN you guys work fast. Less than a day and already ten pages!? Crazy.

[quozl]

It's an advanced class, 301 level.

[NecroBlade]

Yeah, I thought we were going with 2-high terrain as well.

[Hidicul]

Yeah, I thought we were going with 2-high terrain as well.

I belive the change came from this

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain that is at least 5 spaces higher than his basewith height higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.


I think it was mis read though if this s where the change came from, this says that he would need to be next to 6 levels of terrain.

[IAmBatman]

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to terrain with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

How about that?

[Hidicul]

I belive that is what everyone is looking for Bats;) I think some of us were a little confused about the change since, as far as I was able to see, there was no discussion about changing it.
</IMG>

[quozl]

I assume Hiding Places 301 also works on forest trees, jungle trees and bushes, rock outcrops, glaciers, castle walls, and ruins.

[IAmBatman]

I believe that a tree would count as terrain at least 2 levels higher than his base, so, yeah. :-)

[quozl]

What about destructible objects? I know they're not terrain but would we like Bob to be able to hide among them?

[IAmBatman]

Oye ... we're going to have to pull out the language on flying, aren't we?

[Hahma]

What about destructible objects? I know they're not terrain but would we like Bob to be able to hide among them?

Could you say "...and structures such as ruins and destructible objects."

[quozl]

If destructible objects have a height, yes.

[IAmBatman]

They do ... you can, for instance, walk over a ruin if you have enough move. (Though why you'd waste the move to do it I'm not sure. :-P )

[quozl]

I think ruins are terrain, not destructible objects.

[IAmBatman]

Doh. Touche - ruins can't be destroyed, after all. (At least not yet. :-P).
So the Fortress Door (surrounded by terrain) and the Breakable Wall Section are the only two Destructible Objects we currently have in the game, right?

[quozl]

Doh. Touche - ruins can't be destroyed, after all. (At least not yet. :-P).
So the Fortress Door (surrounded by terrain) and the Breakable Wall Section are the only two Destructible Objects we currently have in the game, right?

Yep but both of those are surrounded by terrain so I don't think that's an issue. It might be nice to have this ability work with future custom objects though (like how Magneto and Jean Grey do).

[NecroBlade]

Trees and ruins etc. are usually referred to as "obstacles"...so we still need a lot of work on the wording. :p

[IAmBatman]

I'm pretty sure that Destructible Objects, if custom ones are ever made as well, would fall handily under the "obstacle" category. (After all, they would take up space on the battlefield and blog movement on the spaces they took up).

[quozl]

As long as everything has a height, we could say this:

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

[IAmBatman]

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

[Hahma]

Looking pretty good fellas. :)

[quozl]

with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base

Oops! Thanks for catching that!

[DEATHWALKER 1970]

Like with jungle terrain pieces, maybe Bob´s hiding should only work against shooting attacks?

Suggestion:

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked by a non-adjacent figure while adjacent to terrain with height equal to or higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

[Hidicul]

I like the this is going, it should cover any custom terrian we make and/or use that has some height to it. Nice wording Bats.

[Hahma]

Like with jungle terrain pieces, maybe Bob´s hiding should only work against shooting attacks?

Suggestion:

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked by a non-adjacent figure while adjacent to terrain with height equal to or higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

Yeah, that's better DW1970, as he shouldn't be able to hide from an adjacent figure. Though you missed the addition of "obstacle, or destructible object" that was just added in the last page or so.

Here's the latest suggestion:

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked by a non-adjacent figure while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height equal to or higher than Bob's and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage

[quozl]

Just correcting the wording so we're all on the same page:

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked by a non-adjacent figure while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

[Master Tang]

Yea I updated the first page, sorry I wasn't here at 1am to jump into the stimulating conversation lol. I updated the first page.
Now that I've made those changes I think his price would need to come down.

Also does anyone else kind of like Hahma's Idea for #1 Fan/Crazed Fan?
#1 Fanboy
If an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds with a normal attack against Deadpool you control and Deadpool is within clear sight of Bob, you may move Bob up to 6 spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.I think it would make him more useful and you wouldn't have to waste OM's on him as much.

Also should I change the power's name back to Deadpool's #1 Fan?

[Griffin]

By not being able to hide from an adjacent attack, I think that drops his cost down by about 10 points maybe 20.

[quozl]

Yea I updated the first page

You'll want to use this text:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1143252&postcount=111

Except for Hiding Places 301, where you'll want to use my previous post.

[Master Tang]

Yea I updated the first page

You'll want to use this text:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1143252&postcount=111

Except for Hiding Places 301, where you'll want to use my previous post.
Yep it's all up to date. The only thing I really want to see if anyone besides me and Hahma like the other version of #1 Fan.

[quozl]

Yea I updated the first page

You'll want to use this text:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1143252&postcount=111

Except for Hiding Places 301, where you'll want to use my previous post.
Yep it's all up to date. The only thing I really want to see if anyone besides me and Hahma like the other version of #1 Fan.

Still missing a few things actually, like the height change and the bonus to movement.

Oh, and I don't like Hahma's proposal.

[Master Tang]

Still missing a few things actually, like the height change and the bonus to movement.

Fixed. For some reason my eyes just kept skipping over the differences.

[Balantai]

This custom is looking great. A few thoughts:
I would prefer Fanatic instead of Fanboy. It was suggested by Matt and may have been missed. I think there's a greater possiblity of having another fanatic character.
I could see his attack reduced to 2. He really doesn't need to be an offensive force. His primary function is his ability to damage those that attack Deadpool. Plus, this would allow for a further reduction in cost. I'm a big fan of a low cost Bob.
I'd like to see his movement reduced to 5. He'd still have 7 when running from danger.

[Master Tang]

This custom is looking great. A few thoughts:
I would prefer Fanatic instead of Fanboy. It was suggested by Matt and may have been missed. I think there's a greater possiblity of having another fanatic character.
I could see his attack reduced to 2. He really doesn't need to be an offensive force. His primary function is his ability to damage those that attack Deadpool. Plus, this would allow for a further reduction in cost. I'm a big fan of a low cost Bob.
I'd like to see his movement reduced to 5. He'd still have 7 when running from danger.
You make some good points that I'll have to think over more.
I think I'm going to leave his move at 6 though because in order for him to get that movement bonus he needs to be engaged and with only 2 defense and 3 life he could easily be put out with one hit, so I'm not sure how often he'll get to use that movement bonus. After playtesting if it's shown to be too much than I'll gladly lower his movement to 5.

[IAmBatman]

I'm a fan of a low cost Bob too, so I wouldn't mind seeing his attack down to 2.

[Griffin]

Yep, everything Balantai said actually. :up:

[quozl]

I agree too except I like the Move of 6.

[Master Tang]

I'm a fan of a low cost Bob too, so I wouldn't mind seeing his attack down to 2.
Well I was sorta hesitant about it because I was thinking if anyone ever wanted to recruit him as just filler he'd be slightly more useful with 3 attack then he would be with 2. I was thinking about him being more universally useful.

[IAmBatman]

I think when his synergy went Deadpool specific, universal usefulness went out the window. :-P He's a niche filler at his point, so lets get his points low.

[Master Tang]

I think when his synergy went Deadpool specific, universal usefulness went out the window. :-P He's a niche filler at his point, so lets get his points low.
I guess you have a point. I just didn't want to make him so useless that you wouldn't even draft him if you didn't have Deadpool. I wanted him to be a little better than a 20pt add-on to Deadpool.

[Balantai]

I think when his synergy went Deadpool specific, universal usefulness went out the window. :-P He's a niche filler at his point, so lets get his points low.
I guess you have a point. I just didn't want to make him so useless that you wouldn't even draft him if you didn't have Deadpool. I wanted him to be a little better than a 20pt add-on to Deadpool.
If you increased his range to 8, you might be able to accomplish this. If you put him next to Cap with height, you'd have an attack of 4 with 8 range.

[Hahma]

I think when his synergy went Deadpool specific, universal usefulness went out the window. :-P He's a niche filler at his point, so lets get his points low.
I guess you have a point. I just didn't want to make him so useless that you wouldn't even draft him if you didn't have Deadpool. I wanted him to be a little better than a 20pt add-on to Deadpool.

Unfortunately, sometimes we have to limit universal usefulness on some characters. At some point we've all had to sacrifice some things like that with characters we create. It sucks sometimes, but as Lead Designers we can put out a vision and some basic ideas, but the rest of the collaborators get their say and in the end, things have turned out pretty good so far. :D

[DEATHWALKER 1970]

If there´s ever going to be C3G Hydra common squads, the figure used for Bob would be one of the more obvious choices... well, except for it being used for Bob. Just saying...

[IAmBatman]

Don't worry - we've got it covered. :-P

[Griffin]

I think we need a life of 2 here to really justify that low point value.

[Adam Souza]

If there´s ever going to be C3G Hydra common squads, the figure used for Bob would be one of the more obvious choices... well, except for it being used for Bob. Just saying...

There are 2 sculpts of Male Hydra Agents. The one used for Bob is the less common version. That leaves the more common version for Hyra squads.

There is also a female Hyrda medic.

[Master Tang]

If there´s ever going to be C3G Hydra common squads, the figure used for Bob would be one of the more obvious choices... well, except for it being used for Bob. Just saying...

There are 2 sculpts of Male Hydra Agents. The one used for Bob is the less common version. That leaves the more common version for Hyra squads.

There is also a female Hyrda medic.
The model I chose for bob is the Hydra Officer which is different then the more common Hydra Agent, as Adam said. I chose the Hydra Officer because it's costume is almost completely identical to Bob's and it left the more common model to be made into a squad.

[IAmBatman]

Like I said, seriously, not a problem guys. :-P

[Master Tang]

Like I said, seriously, not a problem guys. :-P
We know. Adam was just explaining why it wasn't a problem and I was explaining why I chose the figure that I did.

[Master Tang]

Edit: NVM, but on a side note can you playtest your own figure?

[Griffin]

Do you have to propose to change to Design Phase?
You are in the Design Phase. The Brainwashing.. excuse me... :D.... The Brainstorming Phase is really a Hero thing that doesn't and can't really apply publicly. Your next step is to ask for a Hero to do the initial playtest for you, then with their approval, you can propose to send it to the ERB Phase.

[Master Tang]

Does any hero want to do the

initial playtest for me? I assure you it will be a lot of fun and you will be rewarded beyond (or below) your wildest dreams.

[NecroBlade]

I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit.

Wait, wrong thread...

[Griffin]

I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit.

Wait, wrong thread...

:rofl:

I would be surprised if Necro doesn't pick this one up, so I will give him time. But if Necro isn't up for it, I will help you out.

[NecroBlade]

My brother's flight lands tomorrow afternoon, and he's the Deadpool fan, so I'll ask him when he gets here if he wants to help. If not, someone else can take it, but thanks Grif.

[Matt Helm]

Hmmmm... GBob seems to be in this thread a lot, and yet I've never seen Bob the Hydra Agent and GBob in the same room at the same time.

Hmmmm... Interesting.

[Grungebob]

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If an opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound. Do you guys realize how easy this one is to avoid for ranged figures?? Could you remove the range restriction? and shouldn't he actually be able to see Deadpool for this power to work? I mean how does he know Deadpool is getting attacked if he can't see him? He needs LOS to both the attacker and Deadpool.

[Master Tang]

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If an opponent's figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound. Do you guys realize how easy this one is to avoid for ranged figures?? Could you remove the range restriction? and shouldn't he actually be able to see Deadpool for this power to work? I mean how does he know Deadpool is getting attacked if he can't see him? He needs LOS to both the attacker and Deadpool.
You do have a point, I'll see what everyone else things and change the power accordingly. Also Thanks for showing interest in Bob, even if it's only because you guys share a name.

[Griffin]

Gbob isn't wrong. This guy is suppose to be a Deadpool glyph/filler, so why not let him rely on the luck of the D20 all the time? That is why everyone loves Isamu. Now with Batman, we put a restriction on Evasive Strike because we thought he need some weakness built in (something we do a lot with the bigger Heroes (rock, paper, scissors)), but Bob is IMO, an homage to Isamu in the Superhero C3G universe. The point is, let him have that lucky streak that is gonna make many games memorable. The only problem I have with this, is what if the attacker is like 14 spaces away? Bob firing back at him is a bit of a theme break for me. So work the wording in a way that only 'inflicts' a wound on the attacker if it is within 5 clear sight spaces.

Also, clear sight on the attacker and Deadpool is another good call.

[Adam Souza]

How about increasing Bob's range ? Currently Hex is out ranging him with pistols, and Bob has an assault rifle. Maybe 8-9 ?

I'm in favor of adding in clear sight to the attacker, but I think Bob could hear Deadpool whine about being shot, and wouldn't need line of sight to Deapool.

[Adam Souza]

Maybe something like:

LIFE 1
MOVE 6
RANGE 8
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 1
POINTS 15?

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked by any non-adjacent figure while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If an opponent's figure within 5 8 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

TACTICS OF RETREAT 101
Bob never takes leaving engagement attacks. If Bob begins his turn engaged, he may move an additional 2 spaces this turn.

[Griffin]

I do not agree with the extreme range at all. He is not a sniper. And Hex is by all means a Marksman, that is his only true power/ability. A big NO from me on the increased range. :poorpost:

[johnny139]

How about increasing Bob's range ? Currently Hex is out ranging him with pistols, and Bob has an assault rifle. Maybe 8-9 ?

I recall hearing, or have always thought, or maybe both, that Range factors in both the literal range of the weapon and the accuracy of the person firing - which is how Syvarris can shoot further than the Airborne Elite, for example. Considering how (relatively) inept Bob is, 5 Range seems like a fair compromise between his skill and his weapon's distance

[Griffin]

How about increasing Bob's range ? Currently Hex is out ranging him with pistols, and Bob has an assault rifle. Maybe 8-9 ?

I recall hearing, or have always thought, or maybe both, that Range factors in both the literal range of the weapon and the accuracy of the person firing - which is how Syvarris can shoot further than the Airborne Elite, for example. Considering how (relatively) inept Bob is, 5 Range seems like a fair compromise between his skill and his weapon's distance
You are exactly right Johnny. :up:

[Adam Souza]

As :gb: pointed out, it will fairly easy to avoid Bob's vengance with cover and distance. My suggestion to increase his range was to address that.

What about if he had Attack 1 ? He'd be on par with Gruts, andhave to rely on elevation for a damage boost, but it would give a reason to increase #1 fan's range as well.

He may not be a sniper, but when you fire wildy in their general direction, sometimes you hit something. :p

His main damage mechanism will be #1 Fan, and his regular attack would be comic relief.

[Griffin]

As :gb: pointed out, it will fairly easy to avoid Bob's vengance with cover and distance. My suggestion to increase his range was to address that.

What about if he had Attack 1 ? He'd be on par with Gruts, andhave to rely on elevation for a damage boost, but it would give a reason to increase #1 fan's range as well.

He may not be a sniper, but when you fire wildy in their general direction, sometimes you hit something. :p

His main damage mechanism will be #1 Fan, and his regular attack would be comic relief.
I love our resident G-bob, but he is just a man with an opinion (a highly valued opinion), not the final authority. So where I appreciate all of his support and involvement (I wish he could accept our membership), I am not gonna always agree with him, nor will I be persuaded with lines like "but G-Bob said". :p

Now Bob the Hydra having a range of 8.... do we need/want him to be that skilled? I don't. I think it is OK, acceptable, appreciated, and necessary to have reasonable limits on designs, and Bob is not an exception to that. No figure needs to be the end all/beat all, and we don't need to keep loading powers/abilities/stats onto Bob here like an old work horse. Let him fill a specific niche that we have as a filler/Deadpool glyph with reasonable limits and most importantly to me, a low point value. :2cents:

[IAmBatman]

Maybe something like:

LIFE 1
MOVE 6
RANGE 8
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 1
POINTS 15?

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob is attacked by any non-adjacent figure while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If an opponent's figure within 5 8 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

TACTICS OF RETREAT 101
Bob never takes leaving engagement attacks. If Bob begins his turn engaged, he may move an additional 2 spaces this turn.


I think I prefer something more like:

LIFE 1
MOVE 6
RANGE 6
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 1
POINTS 15?

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob cannot be targeted for an attack is attacked by any non-adjacent figure while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base. and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure If an opponent's figure within 5 8 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

TACTICS OF RETREAT 101
Bob never takes leaving engagement attacks. If Bob begins his turn engaged, he may move an additional 2 spaces this turn.

This would take him down to a single D20 power (less mess), though also making him completely invulnerable from range and super vulnerable in melee. If he's near Deadpool, though, Deadpool might be able to protect him with wisecracking, and if Deadpool gets hurt instead, Bob might be able to hurt the attacker (I want him to have a good chance since it's not going to happen so often, so I figure being close to Deadpool is enough of a requirement - just imagine he moves into range of the attacking figure, then moves back if you need to). I also wanted to lower the roll a bit so it has a better chance of happening.
This guy is incredibly killable, though. I think 15 points would be the max. Maybe 10.

[quozl]

I like Batman's Bob. :thumbsup:

[Hahma]

I like the changes to Hiding Places 301. I like that he can't be hurt by non-adjacent as long as he's near some kind of terrain, object or DO 2 levels higher than his base.

Though as fragile as he is, it's hard to see him beginning his turn engaged to get the bonus to his move. I mean, he's not likely to initiate engagement and if an opponent's figure engages him, it would take some real good luck for him to survive to move on his next turn.


DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure If an opponent's figure within 5 8 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.
So what if the opponent's figure is not in clear sight of Bob or in his range, he still gets to roll the d20? Would the that I inserted below help with that?

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure that inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool , you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

[quozl]

So what if the opponent's figure is not in clear sight of Bob or in his range, he still gets to roll the d20? Would the that I inserted below help with that?

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure that inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool , you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Then he has to be within 4 clear sight spaces of the attacker too.

How about this?

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within clear sight of an opponent's figure that inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool and Deadpool is within 4 clear sight spaces, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

[IAmBatman]

Or this ...

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure within clear sight of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Also, I think we might want to bump his disengaging movement bonus to like 4, since he's going to need to find cover a LOT.

[quozl]

I see you inserted normal attack again.

[IAmBatman]

Unintentionally! Good catch. :-) It's edited now, though.

[Xn F M]

I know you guys pretty much know what you're doing, but I question whether these super-cheap Bobs are the way to go. Once you get down into the 15 point range, it becomes worthwhile to take take Bob with Deadpool even if you don't use him. Shouldn't he cost enough that you actually have to make a decision on whether or not to draft him?

Look at Cyprien and Sonya who have a similar relationship. Sonya rarely serves any purpose other than boosting Cyprien, but she has stats that make her worth taking on her own (if you need a 45 point filler, and you don't have the better options) and she costs enough that she's not an auto-draft with Cyprien.

In short, basically I'm asking if y'all are sure you want Bob to just be a auto-draft Deadpool upgrade.

[Master Tang]

Or this ...

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure within clear sight of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Also, I think we might want to bump his disengaging movement bonus to like 4, since he's going to need to find cover a LOT.
Just clarifying part of this power for myself, Deadpool only has to be within 4 clear sight spaces of Bob right? Does the opponent's figure have to be within 4 clear sight spaces of Bob?

Deadpool might be able to protect him with wisecracking
Deadpool wouldn't even be able to help Bob because Bob can only be attacked in melee and Wisecrack only works on ranged attacks (originally it was all attacks, but it changed because of issues where attacks would be forfeited because of the power). :D

[quozl]

In short, basically I'm asking if y'all are sure you want Bob to just be a auto-draft Deadpool upgrade.

I think this needs to be addressed. I don't think Bob should be useless if Deadpool is not in your army.

[Master Tang]

In short, basically I'm asking if y'all are sure you want Bob to just be a auto-draft Deadpool upgrade.

I think this needs to be addressed. I don't think Bob should be useless if Deadpool is not in your army.
I made this comment before, did everyone just glance over it? lol


I guess you have a point. I just didn't want to make him so useless that you wouldn't even draft him if you didn't have Deadpool. I wanted him to be a little better than a 20pt add-on to Deadpool.

I think Bob should be a bit more than a 10-15 point add-on for Deadpool.

[quozl]

I don't mind if he's a 10-15 point figure but I do think he should be useful whether or not Deadpool is in your army.

[Adam Souza]

But Bob is not useless without Deadpool. He's basically a squad member out on his own, with a special defense when he's adjacent to terrain.

I'm loving Bat's last round of ideas for Bob.

LIFE 1
MOVE 6
RANGE 6
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 1
POINTS 15?

HIDING PLACES 301
If Bob cannot be targeted for an attack is attacked by any non-adjacent figure while adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with height at least 2 levels higher than Bob's base. and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 8 or higher, Bob takes no damage.

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure If an opponent's figure within 5 8 clear sight spaces of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool with a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

TACTICS OF RETREAT 101
Bob never takes leaving engagement attacks. If Bob begins his turn engaged, he may move an additional 2 spaces this turn.

Maybe a defense of 2. Isamu has 1 defense, but his defensive power prtects him from adjacent attacks as well. Bob has something more akin to highly conditional Thorian Speed.

[Master Tang]

But Bob is not useless without Deadpool. He's basically a squad member out on his own, with a special defense when he's adjacent to terrain.

Would you take 1 Thug? Or 1 Civilian? Not that cool.

I do like the idea of 2 defense though, would make up for his cardboardness in melee or when he's not adjacent to terrain.

Hey it just popped intio my head, but is there any way to word the power so he can also hide behind friendly figures?Or maybe even opponent's figures?

[Adam Souza]

But Bob is not useless without Deadpool. He's basically a squad member out on his own, with a special defense when he's adjacent to terrain.

Would you take 1 Thug? Or 1 Civilian?

As 15 point filler ? YES

As 15 point filler that can't be attacked by non-adjacent foes ? Definitely

[quozl]

For me, if I'm looking at 15 points to fill and I don't have Deadpool in my army, I'd take Isamu every time.

[Master Tang]

But Bob is not useless without Deadpool. He's basically a squad member out on his own, with a special defense when he's adjacent to terrain.

Would you take 1 Thug? Or 1 Civilian?

As 15 point filler ? YES

As 15 point filler that can't be attacked by non-adjacent foes ? Definitely
You sir are a liar! You never choose the 10pt ninja even though 55% of the time he has immunity from any given attack. I choose him whenever I have the chance lol.

[Hahma]

Or this ...

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure within clear sight of Bob inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Also, I think we might want to bump his disengaging movement bonus to like 4, since he's going to need to find cover a LOT.
Just clarifying part of this power for myself, Deadpool only has to be within 4 clear sight spaces of Bob right? Does the opponent's figure have to be within 4 clear sight spaces of Bob?

Deadpool might be able to protect him with wisecracking
Deadpool wouldn't even be able to help Bob because Bob can only be attacked in melee and Wisecrack only works on ranged attacks (originally it was all attacks, but it changed because of issues where attacks would be forfeited because of the power). :D

Regarding #1 Fan, it looks like Bob only has to be within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and the attacking figure only has to be within clear sight of Bob for #1 Fan to work. The problem with that, is if Bob is 4 spaces behind Deadpool and Deadpool is being attacked from the front at 9 spaces from Syvarris or Green Arrow, that would allow Bob to have a chance to put a wound on a figure that was 13 spaces away. Seems kind of odd to me. I had suggested before (but it was overlooked or not liked)that if Deadpool receives a wound, that Bob could move up to 6 spaces and then roll the d20. This would allow Bob to thematically(or at least closer to it) reach opponents that are 13 spaces away. It would also make use of his Tactical Retreat ability of leaving engagements to help DP.


As to Wisecracking not working with Bob because it's vs. non-adjacent attacks, it's not only vs. non-adjacent attacks, its for if a figure can attack DP. Now most of the time an opponent's figure engaged with Bob wouldn't be able to attack DP, thus Wisecrack wouldn't work, but a figure such as Mystique can attack a non-adjacent figure while she is engaged to a different figure. Also, a figure can be engaged to both Bob and DP, so since that figure is engaged with both of them, they would be able to attack DP and roll for Wisecrack. So while Wisecrack won't work as often with Bob, it can work and sometimes some fancy strategy can help you pull that off.

[IAmBatman]

If Bob ends up costing 15 points, then any time I have an army total ending in a 5, there's a good chance of me throwing him in, with or without Deadpool.
And I agree with a defense of 2. I also think Tactics of Retreat should add 4 to his movement.


Regarding #1 Fan, it looks like Bob only has to be within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and the attacking figure only has to be within clear sight of Bob for #1 Fan to work. The problem with that, is if Bob is 4 spaces behind Deadpool and Deadpool is being attacked from the front at 9 spaces from Syvarris or Green Arrow, that would allow Bob to have a chance to put a wound on a figure that was 13 spaces away. Seems kind of odd to me. I had suggested before (but it was overlooked or not liked)that if Deadpool receives a wound, that Bob could move up to 6 spaces and then roll the d20. This would allow Bob to thematically(or at least closer to it) reach opponents that are 13 spaces away. It would also make use of his Tactical Retreat ability of leaving engagements to help DP.


As to Wisecracking not working with Bob because it's vs. non-adjacent attacks, it's not only vs. non-adjacent attacks, its for if a figure can attack DP. Now most of the time an opponent's figure engaged with Bob wouldn't be able to attack DP, thus Wisecrack wouldn't work, but a figure such as Mystique can attack a non-adjacent figure while she is engaged to a different figure. Also, a figure can be engaged to both Bob and DP, so since that figure is engaged with both of them, they would be able to attack DP and roll for Wisecrack. So while Wisecrack won't work as often with Bob, it can work and sometimes some fancy strategy can help you pull that off.

Great answers, Hahma! Spot on. If I'm playing Bob with Deadpool, I'm trying my best to keep them adjacent.
As for adding in a movement to him when Deadpool receives a wound, I'd have to see it written up, but I think that has potential.

[Grungebob]

I had suggested before (but it was overlooked or not liked)that if Deadpool receives a wound, that Bob could move up to 6 spaces and then roll the d20. This would allow Bob to thematically(or at least closer to it) reach opponents that are 13 spaces away. It would also make use of his Tactical Retreat ability of leaving engagements to help DP.


Now THAT is a thematic and dynamic ability idea that would allow you to work this guy into the game and you might never require an order marker on him. This is what I'm talking about.

[IAmBatman]

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may immediately move Bob up to 6 spaces. If Bob ends this movement within 6 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Maybe?

[Grungebob]

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may immediately move Bob up to 6 spaces. If Bob ends this movement within 6 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Maybe?There doesn't need to be a 4 space limit on the distance between Bob and deadpool

If Bob is within clear sight of Deadpool and an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may immediately move Bob up to 6 spaces. If Bob ends this movement within 6 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Just dropped the range wording. I didn't re-write the power. I would change bob's fan move to 4 spaces.

[Hahma]

For me, if I'm looking at 15 points to fill and I don't have Deadpool in my army, I'd take Isamu every time.

But Bob is not useless without Deadpool. He's basically a squad member out on his own, with a special defense when he's adjacent to terrain.

Would you take 1 Thug? Or 1 Civilian?

As 15 point filler ? YES

As 15 point filler that can't be attacked by non-adjacent foes ? Definitely
You sir are a liar! You never choose the 10pt ninja even though 55% of the time he has immunity from any given attack. I choose him whenever I have the chance lol.

It depends on the map. Bob has a range of 6 and attack of 2. Isamu has range of 1 and attack of 3. On a map where Bob can get to height easily enough, and be adjacent to whatever 2 levels higher than him, he could help control a choke point with an attack of 3 and range of 6. He can't be attacked with range in that situation and would force an opponent to come to him. Now in this fashion, he could be used as a decoy to lure an unsuspecting opponent to move a figure adjacent to Bob to take him out and while doing so, will put their figure in range of one of your figures.

If he's only 15 points, if in an entire game that doesn't have Deadpool in it, if he only kills 1 Stinger, he took out more than his points. If he puts 1 wound on Black Canary, that's almost 48 points he took out. If you use him to lure an opponent's hero figure into a trap and have the 10th Reg or 4th Mass in range to attack that figure with Wait and Fire the next turn, then Bob has earned his points.

Now with Deadpool, if he can put an auto-wound on Batman, that's 50 points right there. There are many figures that an auto-wound would be huge against.

So I wouldn't totally overlook Bob's value, even with crappy stats. He's not meant to lead the way and take on the Hulk, he has certain uses for a cheap figure that Isamu doesn't and vice versa. I'd hate for them to be exactly alike and depending on your army, you can have success with either. Heck, he can be a cheap filler in a Red Skull army that wouldn't have to have an OM wasted on him, yet he can be activated at a certain time to get at least 15 points value out of him.

[Hahma]

I had suggested before (but it was overlooked or not liked)that if Deadpool receives a wound, that Bob could move up to 6 spaces and then roll the d20. This would allow Bob to thematically(or at least closer to it) reach opponents that are 13 spaces away. It would also make use of his Tactical Retreat ability of leaving engagements to help DP.


Now THAT is a thematic and dynamic ability idea that would allow you to work this guy into the game and you might never require an order marker on him. This is what I'm talking about.

Thanks GB :D That's what I was going for when I suggested it a few pages back. I wanted a way to make Bob more effective by not having to use OMs for him that often. I also thought it would make some use of his leaving engagement ability.

DEADPOOL'S #1 FAN
If Bob is within 4 clear sight spaces of Deadpool and an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may immediately move Bob up to 6 spaces. If Bob ends this movement within 6 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Maybe?There doesn't need to be a 4 space limit on the distance between Bob and deadpool

If Bob is within clear sight of Deadpool and an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may immediately move Bob up to 6 spaces. If Bob ends this movement within 6 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.

Just dropped the range wording. I didn't re-write the power. I would change bob's fan move to 4 spaces.

Deadpool's #1 Fan
If Bob is within clear sight of Deadpool and an opponent's figure inflicts one or more wounds on Deadpool, you may immediately move Bob up to 6 spaces. If Bob ends this movement within 6 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure immediately receives one wound.



Thanks Bats for the write-up and thanks GB for dropping the 4. I think that looks really good and is what I was kind of envisioning and think it will add a lot to Bob's value.

[Master Tang]

By having Bob not needing to use OM's he just became a lot more attractive as an army choice to me. Btw, Hahma I was completely behind this idea the entire time, I was disappointed that it didn't catch on, but now I am happy.

First post updated.

[NecroBlade]

Was it really necessary to change the whole power because Bob should be able to see Deadpool? Deadpool has a REALLY big mouth.

[quozl]

He's still Deadpool-specific too. That disappoints me but if that's what everyone wants, I'll live with it.

[Hidicul]

Was it really necessary to change the whole power because Bob should be able to see Deadpool? Deadpool has a REALLY big mouth.

:rofl: Yep, you would hear Deadpool complaining that he got hit for a ways off.

[IAmBatman]

Looking good, guys. :-)

[Hahma]

He's still Deadpool-specific too. That disappoints me but if that's what everyone wants, I'll live with it.

But he's still usable as a filler sometimes in non-DP armies. Like I posted before, there are times when he can be more draftable than Isamu and vise versa. A cheap ranged figure can get 15 points pretty easy, at least he has a better threat range than Isamu and a decent chance to dish a wound or two. One bad d20 roll and Isamu is done for vs. a ranged attacker without him having much of a chance. Now I have witnessed some Isamu greatness, but I can imagine some memorable games with Bob as well.

And besides, it's not like Bob is such a big name character that he should be totally universally used in any case, because now that might make Isamu less draftable all the time.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, honestly, how often does Bob appear in the comics without Deadpool around?

[quozl]

My superscape games have their own stories. Deadpool may never work for the Joker in the comics but he may in my games.

In my games, I'd like Bob to be more than just Deadpool's pet.

Hahma does make a good point about Bob's usefulness although he leaves out Isamu's Phantom Walk and Jandar attack bonus which makes him a great Raelin assassain.

[IAmBatman]

Well, if you don't mix (I try not to, these days), Bob will be our lowest costing figure in Superscape.

[quozl]

Well, if you don't mix (I try not to, these days)

I heard you don't even play anymore except for playtesting!

I will always mix. More choices is more fun (for me).

[IAmBatman]

I used to, but the games aren't compatible. Anyway, that's something for another thread (and has been done to death!).
Where are we on Bob? I think he's good for an initial playtest, right?
If I weren't doing one for ***** ***** today, I might volunteer. Sorry!

[Adam Souza]

You sir are a liar! You never choose the 10pt ninja even though 55% of the time he has immunity from any given attack. I choose him whenever I have the chance lol.

1.) Isamu is not a Superscape piece. I don't frequently mix.
2.) I no longer bring 2 Isamus with me when we play.
3.) One of the other players frequently nabs him, if he's in the draft pile.

Bob on the other hand would be a Superscape piece making me more inclined to play him, but you'll probably draft him along with your Deadpool custom that comes back from the dead.

[Griffin]

I like Batman's Bob. :thumbsup:
That's what she said. :lol:

~ Griff, who can find nothing else to add to this design at the moment

[Grungebob]

Spending the effort to put the polish on even the lowliest of characters is worth it in the end. This Bob is very thematic. I love it.

[Adam Souza]

I know Tang has a special place in his heart for Bob, but I really think he should only have 1 life, at that point range.

Aside from that I'm pretty excited about him.

I had a thought though. How are Heavy Hitter tests going to be run for him ?
Isamu
A single thug ?
A single pedestrian ?
A single (insert any low point squad here) ?

[IAmBatman]

Don't forget Marcu, Kyntella Gwyn, and Otonashi!

[tcglkn]

I like this guy. I think for two life he is worth more like 20 points. He will be hard to hit from range and can always just run away.

[Griffin]

I like this guy. I think for two life he is worth more like 20 points. He will be hard to hit from range and can always just run away.
I agree, and I would like to bump that to 25 for the chance of him getting on a lucky streak and also his need to help balance out Deadpool's point value of 185.

[IAmBatman]

I so much prefer 1 life and 15 points.

[Hidicul]

I'd ike to see it at 25 since we talked about it ending in 5 already

EDIT: Grrr a double :ninja: by Bats and Griff.

[tcglkn]

I so much prefer 1 life and 15 points.

With 1 life I would only pay 15 points for him. No matter how strong he is, it only takes one bad roll to take him out, and every OM is a risk. 15 points seems right for 1 life.

[Hidicul]

I so much prefer 1 life and 15 points.
You jst want him and Deadpool to be an even 200 don't you Bats? I can see the logic in that vs. them being 210 together.

[Griffin]

I would support 1 life/15 points or 2 life/25 points.

[tcglkn]

I would support 1 life/15 points or 2 life/25 points.

I prefer 1 life/15 points. Then him and Deadpool make an nice 200 point pair :twisted:

[johnny139]

I definitely think he needs 2 Life, at least. I know he's supposed to be filler, but even with his "duck and cover" 1 Life seems too fragile to me.

[Adam Souza]

I'm comfortable with either:
1 life & 15 points
2 life & 25 points

The more I think about it, the only compelling reason I can think of to make him 1 life/15 points is shooting for Isamu-ness. 2 life would be more original, and put Bob head and shoulders above common Hydra Agents.

[tcglkn]

I'm comfortable with either:
1 life & 15 points
2 life & 25 points

The more I think about it, the only compelling reason I can think of to make him 1 life/15 points is shooting for Isamu-ness. 2 life would be more original, and put Bob head and shoulders above common Hydra Agents.

I guess 2 life is much more thematic, don't want to lose him among the other Hydra Agents.

[IAmBatman]

I so much prefer 1 life and 15 points.
You jst want him and Deadpool to be an even 200 don't you Bats? I can see the logic in that vs. them being 210 together.

Hadn't thought of it, but that's not a bad perk. I mostly just think a 15 point filler would be more useful. :-)

I would support 1 life/15 points or 2 life/25 points.

I could do either as well, but have a strong preference for the former.

I'm comfortable with either:
1 life & 15 points
2 life & 25 points

The more I think about it, the only compelling reason I can think of to make him 1 life/15 points is shooting for Isamu-ness. 2 life would be more original, and put Bob head and shoulders above common Hydra Agents.

15 points would be more original than 25, though. :-P
Also, again not that familiar with Bob, but the impression I got is that he shouldn't be head and shoulders above common Hydra agents ...

[Griffin]

So Here is my question: Is Bob with a life of 1 really only worth 5 points more than Isamu? I think he is worth about 15 points more.

[tcglkn]

So Here is my question: Is Bob with a life of 1 really only worth 5 points more than Isamu? I think he is worth about 15 points more.

I don't like 1 life units that cost more than 20 points. I mean sure they will all have their up days. (My Isamu recently killed my friends Sparticus). But how often will they survive to do much damage at all?

[IAmBatman]

So what do you think he's worth with 2 life, then?

[Griffin]

So Here is my question: Is Bob with a life of 1 really only worth 5 points more than Isamu? I think he is worth about 15 points more.

I don't like 1 life units that cost more than 20 points. I mean sure they will all have their up days. (My Isamu recently killed my friends Sparticus). But how often will they survive to do much damage at all?
So you don't like Stinger? ;)

[IAmBatman]

I'm sure he prefers Stingers

[Griffin]

So what do you think he's worth with 2 life, then?
About the same honestly. With his low defense and a life of 2, Attackers are going to likely kill him with one attack if they get past that D20 anyways. So I think 25 would still be completely appropriate if he had a life of 2.

[Adam Souza]

Also, again not that familiar with Bob, but the impression I got is that he shouldn't be head and shoulders above common Hydra agents ...


Bob starts off pretty mundane, but then runs around with Deadpool, Captain America, etc... fights dinosaurs and lives. He's more like Checkov than a red shirt.

So Here is my question: Is Bob with a life of 1 really only worth 5 points more than Isamu? I think he is worth about 15 points more.

Bob's pretty much dead if they can get adjacent to him, while Isamu enjoys A 55% chance to escape unharmed.

I think any unique hero that low enjoys a nice point discount because of how easily they can be 1 shotted. Think trample, engagement strike, etc.. any auto wound power really.

So I think 25 would still be completely appropriate if he had a life of 2.

Me 2

[Griffin]

I'm sure he prefers Stingers
3 or more is better, but one for the price of 20 is cheddar. :D

[IAmBatman]

I think he's worth only 15 with 1 life.
We'd have to playtest it anyway, so we should just figure out the life thing now.

[Griffin]

Oh actually, things changed on the front page that I didn't notice. He is definitely worth 15 points at 1 life, at the most.

[tcglkn]

Oh actually, things changed on the front page that I didn't notice. He is definitely worth 15 points at 1 life, at the most.

Pay attention :P lol I think that is a good cost for him. He will be the only 15 point unit for my mixed C3G/MarvelScape/ClassicScape games so he will be in high demand.

[johnny139]

I don't think there's really any substantial difference between 1 Life and 2. This is Superscape - if he's going to get hit, odds are, he's going down, and hard. But giving him 2 Life would be an "executive decision" of sorts to show - "This guy is a hero, not just a grunt. He's an individual, not just a squaddie. He's head and shoulders above the rest."

Even if he's only above the rest in cowering and running away, I think it's an important distinction to make.

For pricing, though, I think 15 would be fair, but so would 25. Never been too good with numbers like that, but with figures this cheap, pricing is secondary. Isamu can kill a LOT more then 10 points.

[Adam Souza]

Isamu can kill a LOT more then 10 points.

If Isamu kills anything, he's pretty much assured to kill more than 10 points ;)

[Hidicul]

I don't see a problem with giving him 2 life at 15 points, it's like Johnny said, when he takes a hit, it really wont matter if he has 1 life or 2 since either way he is mostlikely going to drop on the first attack that gets through.

[IAmBatman]

Well then, 2 life, 15 point estimate, ready for playtesting?

[Wolvie]

I'm not sure i get the 101 and 301 part wouldn't it benifit you to just call it the original names for the powers and if there aren't any, come up with some that can be used in further C3G developing..

[Adam Souza]

The names are a comic book reference from Bob's origin.

[Wolvie]

ok.. I've read a lot of deadpool but can't remember getting across that, but it's fine with me if they stay just wanted to know the reason :)

[A3n]

I missed this whole thread completely, I hope I there hasn't been any votes yet :oops:.

[Griffin]

I missed this whole thread completely, I hope I there hasn't been any votes yet :oops:.
Not yet, but I think we are about to vote on playtesting. This thread was announced in the Public Directory, so be sure to check in there from time to time to see what all new is going on. :)