Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread

[Balantai]

I've had an idea of doing a thread like this for some time. Basically, I'd like to have a core group of people that choose and create a custom for any character from fiction. That character needs to be somewhat known. For instance, you could do Terminator or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. They can be from movies, TV, literature, video games, etc. The core group will create characters one at a time and they will be reviewed and critiqued by the group. I think a similar funtionality to the HoSS (Heroes of StarWars 'Scape) would work best. If you're interested, please post in this thread.

Current Designers:
Balantai
Lamaclown
jcmcminis
Taeblewalker
mac122
Machineking
McHotcakes
Confred

Phase 1: Designer Chooses Character
Initial post should contain:
Character's name.
What fictional genre the character is from. I.E. Movie: Star Wars, Literature: Harry Potter, Television: Transformers, etc.
What miniature you will be using.
A short description of the character or link to a description.
Any specific direction you're looking to take the character.
NOTE: Actual stats and Special Powers you are considering are not needed in this phase.



Phase 2: Brainstorming Stage
Only 1 post per person. Anyone from the community is welcome to post, but please limit it to one post for this stage. If you think of something afterwards and/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post.
If you disagree with ideas somebody else has put forward do so in your own initial post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
The chosen figure must remain in the Brainstorming Phase for at least 24 hours. If the designer feels that he wants to wait longer, he may.Phase 3: Draft Stage
Once the designer feels he has enough info to start creating a card, he may post his first draft.
Use this template:

Character Name
(Name of Video Game, Book, Movie, TV Show, etc.)
(Genre)
(Faction)

Race
Unique Hero
Class
Personality
Size: X

Life: X
Move: X
Range: X
Attack: X
Defense: X

Special Power 1 Name
Description

Special Power 2 Name
Description

Points: ??? (please leave point cost as ??? until we get to cost discussion)
During the Draft Stage, all aspects of the card should be discussed including stats, Special Powers, cost and power wording.

Phase 4: Voting Stage
When the designer feels that the card is ready for creation, he may propose to finalize the card. To finalize the card, there needs to be approval (thumbs up) from a majority of the active designers. After the card is finalized, the next designer in order is activated and the process resets.

Important Note
In order to get your chance to design, you will need to be an active participator in this thread. That doesn't mean 10 posts per day. It doesn't mean you need to post every day, either. It just means that you contribute regularly in a positive manner.

Finished Designs:
Found here. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1468199&postcount=1)

[Takanuva]

I'm interested, but don't have much time. I might be able to find time to help though.

[mac122]

Sounds like fun! Count me in.

[jcmcminis]

I like this, count me in, I've actually already done several video game characters.

[Balantai]

I'm interested, but don't have much time. I might be able to find time to help though.
Ideally, this thread won't be that time intensive. When it's your turn to create a custom, I would expect you to be pretty active, but otherwise, a post a day should be more than suffice.

[Balantai]

There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.

Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins?
Is a miniature required?
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo?

[mac122]

There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.
Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins? Either is fine. Though, it might be interesting to fit these characters into the Valhalla story.
Is a miniature required? Yes. Either a mini of the figure or a reasonable proxy figure. I'd like to be able to play these. Having a figure to match the card helps.
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo? Will we have someone like Granite-M to do the cards? If so, then both!;) If not, going only by my photographic skills (or lack thereof) I'd go with art.
Here's my penny and a half.

[wulfhunter667]

There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.
Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins? Either is fine. Though, it might be interesting to fit these characters into the Valhalla story.
Is a miniature required? Yes. Either a mini of the figure or a reasonable proxy figure. I'd like to be able to play these. Having a figure to match the card helps.
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo? Will we have someone like Granite-M to do the cards? If so, then both!;) If not, going only by my photographic skills (or lack thereof) I'd go with art.
Here's my penny and a half.
I'm in, but Mac ninja'd all my responses to your question before I could even answer them. ;)

[Balantai]

There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.
Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins? Either is fine. Though, it might be interesting to fit these characters into the Valhalla story.
Is a miniature required? Yes. Either a mini of the figure or a reasonable proxy figure. I'd like to be able to play these. Having a figure to match the card helps.
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo? Will we have someone like Granite-M to do the cards? If so, then both!;) If not, going only by my photographic skills (or lack thereof) I'd go with art.
Here's my penny and a half.

I have PM'd someone about creating all of our cards for this "project". (I hate using the word 'project' because it makes it sound like work) If he accepts, we'll ask him if he's willing to do Vahalla cards and if he's willing to do photo and mini versions.

[wulfhunter667]

Side note, are you planning on doing this kind of as each figure comes, or by series/movie/whatever? Do you have a preliminary list of possible future cards for design? Is the list subject to change with availability of figures or proxies?

[Hrockle]

I would love to do this, but considering the only minature modeling tools I have are a nondrying clay, I don't know what I can do.

Also, I'm a newb to creating customs.

[Balantai]

I would love to do this, but considering the only minature modeling tools I have are a nondrying clay, I don't know what I can do.

Also, I'm a newb to creating customs.
Hrockle,

I have no intention of modeling or molding any minis. :D There are a large variety of minis you can find online that could probably serve the purpose of proxing almost any custom you can think of.

In other words, don't worry, and we'd love to have you here with us.

[Hrockle]

Hrockle,

I have no intention of modeling or molding any minis. :D There are a large variety of minis you can find online that could probably serve the purpose of proxing almost any custom you can think of.

In other words, don't worry, and we'd love to have you here with us.

Thanks, I already have a couple ideas, just have to find the right figure.

[Balantai]

Side note, are you planning on doing this kind of as each figure comes, or by series/movie/whatever? Do you have a preliminary list of possible future cards for design? Is the list subject to change with availability of figures or proxies?
I'd like to leave it completely up to each individual designer. If one of our designers has a fetish for LotR, he can make a character every time it gets to his turn. I envision the beauty of this thread to be it's wide variety of genres and ideas.

As long as a suitable figure or proxy exists, it's fair game to create that card.

[Balantai]

Hrockle,

I have no intention of modeling or molding any minis. :D There are a large variety of minis you can find online that could probably serve the purpose of proxing almost any custom you can think of.

In other words, don't worry, and we'd love to have you here with us.

Thanks, I already have a couple ideas, just have to find the right figure.
No hurry. It'll probably be a couple days before we start on the first card.

[wulfhunter667]

Side note, are you planning on doing this kind of as each figure comes, or by series/movie/whatever? Do you have a preliminary list of possible future cards for design? Is the list subject to change with availability of figures or proxies?
I'd like to leave it completely up to each individual designer. If one of our designers has a fetish for LotR, he can make a character every time it gets to his turn. I envision the beauty of this thread to be it's wide variety of genres and ideas.

As long as a suitable figure or proxy exists, it's fair game to create that card.
Cool deal. We are going to need some kind of structure to all this. Do you have ideas about that?

[Balantai]

Side note, are you planning on doing this kind of as each figure comes, or by series/movie/whatever? Do you have a preliminary list of possible future cards for design? Is the list subject to change with availability of figures or proxies?
I'd like to leave it completely up to each individual designer. If one of our designers has a fetish for LotR, he can make a character every time it gets to his turn. I envision the beauty of this thread to be it's wide variety of genres and ideas.

As long as a suitable figure or proxy exists, it's fair game to create that card.
Cool deal. We are going to need some kind of structure to all this. Do you have ideas about that?
Yes. I have a bunch of ideas. :D

The rotation already exists in my initial post. One at a time, we choose a semi-famous fictional character and post a first draft. The draft needs to include the miniature being used. We then give ideas and possible critiques to the designer. It's ultimately the designer's decision what stays and what goes. Once the card has been hashed out, including cost, we'll need 'thumb ups' from a majority of the designers. We'll then get the custom on a card and move on to the next designer.

[jcmcminis]

Hey Balantai, what if we already have a card made up for a particular character? I even have an idea on backstory on why he was brought to valhalla and everything.

[jcmcminis]

Guess what I am asking Balantai is can I go 1st and then you can skip me the 1st time around in the rotation.

[wulfhunter667]

I do have a concern here. In doing a little online research for ideas on upcoming cards, I am noticing there is not alot of possiblity for proxy/similiar figures out there. Is having a figure going to be a requirement for making the card or can we skirt that sometimes if a suitable proxy/figure cannot be found?

[Lamaclown]

Since I've already been doing some of this, and I haven't been a part of a group project before, I would love to pitch in as well (obviously, I would do figs from classic literature ;)).

[mac122]

If we can't find a figure, then we should at least find a stand-in - a figure that would have most of the same characteristics like species and size. Like Roger Moore when he replaced Sean Connery as James Bond.

[Lamaclown]

I generally like to have figs for the cards I make. You would be surprised at just how many figs are out there that could appropriately fill the need. It takes some searching around sometimes, but they are out there.

[Granite-M]

I'd like in, but I'm concerned by the breadth of the thread. "Heroes of Fiction" is a REALLY wide net: it pretty much covers everything, including all of the customs projects that already exist. I might suggest making a couple different threads, such as "Heroes of Cinema," and "Heroes of Literature," so that things don't just get entirely muddled together.

That said, I definitely have some ideas I'd like to get out there. :twisted:

[wulfhunter667]

I'd like in, but I'm concerned by the breadth of the thread. "Heroes of Fiction" is a REALLY wide net: it pretty much covers everything, including all of the customs projects that already exist. I might suggest making a couple different threads, such as "Heroes of Cinema," and "Heroes of Literature," so that things don't just get entirely muddled together.

That said, I definitely have some ideas I'd like to get out there. :twisted:
That's not entirely a bad idea. One for Cinema, one for Literature, one for Television, one for Video Games and that's all I got right now. Anything I missed?

[machinekng]

I like to help out with this project, but I'm not suer how much time I could devote to it. I can definitley playtest a bit and make a couple of cards.

Instead of different threads, the cards could simply be divided into different groups, just as C3G cards are divided into different waves.

[Balantai]

I have fantastic news for this project. A3n has graciously accepted putting our finished ccustoms on cards. For those of you that don't know A3n, he is one of two card designers for C3G. (The other is GreyOwl.)

[wulfhunter667]

I have fantastic news for this project. A3n has graciously accepted putting our finished ccustoms on cards. For those of you that don't know A3n, he is one of two card designers for C3G. (The other is GreyOwl.)
http://www.goreydetails.net/images/items/jpeg1124562828.jpg

[machinekng]

So, will the cards be on Vahallascape backings, or Marvelscape ones. Personaly, I think the majority of fictional characters can be grouped under the Vahallan generals.

[mac122]

I have fantastic news for this project. A3n has graciously accepted putting our finished ccustoms on cards. For those of you that don't know A3n, he is one of two card designers for C3G. (The other is GreyOwl.)

http://www.goreydetails.net/images/items/jpeg1124562828.jpg

That doesn't begin to cover it! That's AWESOME news!

Along the lines of Machineking's idea, I think we could keep them all in this thread. Just sort them out on the front page like the HoSS figures are sorted by Episode.

Hmmm, I wonder if I could find a Mr. Burns figure....;)

[Lamaclown]

Along the lines of Machineking's idea, I think we could keep them all in this thread. Just sort them out on the front page like the HoSS figures are sorted by Episode.

Hmmm, I wonder if I could find a Mr. Burns figure....;)

I agree that finding a way of separating figs from different genres is a good idea.

mac122 probably has the best idea so far. That way we can avoid cluttering this sub-forum with multiple threads for the same project.

As for a Burns miniature... so close (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2882/clue-the-simpsons)but no cigar. It is a travesty that he is so neglected (of course he is the one who's murder you are trying to solve).

[mac122]

As for a Burns miniature... so close (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2882/clue-the-simpsons)but no cigar. It is a travesty that he is so neglected (of course he is the one who's murder you are trying to solve).
Doh! Though I will have to look at our Simpson's Clue game to see if those figs are close to scale.

BTW, meant to do this earlier, but it's great to have you on board, Lamaclown.

[Lamaclown]

BTW, meant to do this earlier, but it's great to have you on board, Lamaclown.

Thank you!
I am very excited to be a part of a community project.

[Balantai]

Hey Balantai, what if we already have a card made up for a particular character? I even have an idea on backstory on why he was brought to valhalla and everything.
I don't mind if you already have a character created, as long as you are open to changes on the character. If you're set on the power set and wording already, he's probably better off left as one of your own customs.

[jcmcminis]

Im open to suggestions for change. So if its ok with you, can i go ahead and post it for review and then you can skip me in the 1st rotation?

[machinekng]

If we design multiple characters from the same series, we could also sub-group them based on that series.

In addition, characters from movies or television based on literature should be in the literature section.

[Lamaclown]

If we design multiple characters from the same series, we could also sub-group them based on that series.

In addition, characters from movies or television based on literature should be in the literature section.

I don't know about that. Often the characters from movies are nothing like the characters from the book. Take VanHelsing for example. The only resemblance of Hugh Jackman's character to Bram Stoker's character is that they both hunted Dracula.

Some leeway is fine but if the characters are totally dissimilar (as in the above example) I think we should keep them separate.

Just my :2cents:
</IMG>

[mac122]

If we design multiple characters from the same series, we could also sub-group them based on that series.

In addition, characters from movies or television based on literature should be in the literature section.
Part 1 - Yes.
Part 2 - Maybe. I think it will depend on where the designer is getting their inspiration. Characters can change drastically from one medium to the next. Movies often merge multiple characters into one or add a snazzy new ability not found in the book.

OOF! Lamaclown ninja's are painful!

[machinekng]

I was thinking more about series like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, where the movie is more heavily based on the books, but I see your point.

P.S. How would the selection process work? Would the designer choose a figure to design, design the figure, and then post it for critique, or would the supporters vote on a figure, brainstrom ideas, and have the designer take the brainstorming ideas and create a cohesive card based on them.

[Balantai]

Im open to suggestions for change. So if its ok with you, can i go ahead and post it for review and then you can skip me in the 1st rotation?
Let's get a couple more things hashed out before we start the process. We're all excited. :D

[machinekng]

Maybe to start we should create a list of characters. If just to start the brainstorming process.

[Balantai]

I really don't want to limit what can and can't be made. Since we're leaning towards putting these customs on Vahalla cards, I see nothing wrong with reinventing Star Wars or Comic Book characters if someone is so inclined.

As far as grouping is concerned, I don't think that's anything we really need to get hung up on. We could have the same custom in multiple sections. For instance, Gandalf could go in the Movie section and the Literature section.

[Balantai]

Maybe to start we should create a list of characters. If just to start the brainstorming process.
It's going to be up to the designer to decide which character to create. Perhaps the best option is to post the character that you want to create first and let everyone give their opinion. After that, the designer can pick what he likes from the suggestions and post a card. It would a bit different from most of the other projects and I think it would work.

[Balantai]

P.S. How would the selection process work? Would the designer choose a figure to design, design the figure, and then post it for critique, or would the supporters vote on a figure, brainstrom ideas, and have the designer take the brainstorming ideas and create a cohesive card based on them.
Designer chooses a figure to design, brainstorm ideas, designer takes brainstorming ideas and creates a cohesive card.

[mac122]

P.S. How would the selection process work? Would the designer choose a figure to design, design the figure, and then post it for critique, or would the supporters vote on a figure, brainstrom ideas, and have the designer take the brainstorming ideas and create a cohesive card based on them.
Designer chooses a figure to design, brainstorm ideas, designer takes brainstorming ideas and creates a cohesive card.
That's in interesting twist. :up:
So when we present a character, we give a short bio and maybe some links for more info and then maybe give the group an idea where you'd like to go with the design but not present stats and abilities. Sound right?

[machinekng]

Sounds good. We can probaly use wikipedia for info.

[Taeblewalker]

I would be interested in doing a character. Possibilities I'm interested in: The Kids from the D&D cartoon, Spellsinger, Papa Smurf

[machinekng]

Another question. If asupporter doesn't have the time to make a card when his postion in the rotation comes up, could he pass, or delay his turn?

[Takanuva]

If we design multiple characters from the same series, we could also sub-group them based on that series.

In addition, characters from movies or television based on literature should be in the literature section.

I don't know about that. Often the characters from movies are nothing like the characters from the book. Take VanHelsing for example. The only resemblance of Hugh Jackman's character to Bram Stoker's character is that they both hunted Dracula.

Some leeway is fine but if the characters are totally dissimilar (as in the above example) I think we should keep them separate.

Just my :2cents:
</IMG>


We could always have different cards for the same figure, as people in fiction tend to change alot. (Ie:In Star Wars, Anakin as a padawan is completely different than Darth Vader, but they are the same character)

[Lamaclown]

We could always have different cards for the same figure, as people in fiction tend to change alot. (Ie:In Star Wars, Anakin as a padawan is completely different than Darth Vader, but they are the same character)

That would work fine to me. That way if someone wanted to do a Jackman VanHelsing someone else could still do a Stoker VanHelsing (that is just the most extreme example that comes to mind).

We'll have to see what the consensus is on that.

[machinekng]

So, how long until we start?

[Hrockle]

We could always have different cards for the same figure, as people in fiction tend to change alot. (Ie:In Star Wars, Anakin as a padawan is completely different than Darth Vader, but they are the same character)

That's fine with me.

[Balantai]

I would be interested in doing a character. Possibilities I'm interested in: The Kids from the D&D cartoon, Spellsinger, Papa Smurf
Welcome aboard.

[Balantai]

Another question. If asupporter doesn't have the time to make a card when his postion in the rotation comes up, could he pass, or delay his turn?
I'd prefer a pass to a delay, but that's definitely allowed.

[Lamaclown]

So, how long until we start?

Well, we still haven't really discussed much what Balantai said here...


There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.
Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins?
Is a miniature required?
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo?

We got kind of sidetracked in our excitement. A couple of people gave input but I don't know if those issues have actually been settled on.

EDIT: I guess I could give my input on those things:
1. I would lean toward Valhallascape but I am fine either way.
2. I definitely think having a recommended mini is preferable even if we don't use its pic on the card.
3. If we have a decent photograph of the mini that would be great since some characters may not have much to go on as far as artwork. Whichever we decide on I think it is important to maintain consistency in presentation (I like how C3G has cards using each).

[Hrockle]

There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.
Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins?
Is a miniature required?
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo?

Valhallascape, it's more fun with the generals.
Not required, but it would be nice.
Any is fine.My :2cents:

[machinekng]

There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.
Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins?
Is a miniature required?
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo?

Returning to the issues.

1. For the most part, I think it should be up to the designer. Personally (assuming I merge my attempt at a Wheel of Time customs project with this thread) I want to make custom factions cards for some of my customs.

2. If a miniature of the character is found, it should be featured. If not, a couple of proxies could be found. If anyone knows a good place to look for proxy miniatures, Balanti could add it to the first post.

3. If the miniature is found, both could be used. If not, the art should be used to open up room for proxies. As for the hitzones, I believe common sense could be used easily (no targeting weapons and clothing that stick out from the character.)

[Balantai]

I have updated the first post with the below ruleset. Any thoughts?

Phase 1: Designer Chooses Character
Initial post should contain:
Character's name.
What fictional genre the character is from. I.E. Movie: Star Wars, Literature: Harry Potter, Television: Transformers, etc.
What miniature you will be using.
A short description of the character or link to a description.
Any specific direction you're looking to take the character.

Phase 2: Brainstorming Stage
Anyone from the community is welcome to give ideas for the chosen character. These do not have to be specific Special Powers, but instead could be specific aspects of the chosen character you'd like to see represented on the card. For instance, if Darth Vader is the chosen figure, I might say that I'd like to see his ability to Force Choke somewhere on the card. I'd also like to see his ability to ignore ranged attacks represented. Keep in mind, none of your suggestions need to be embraced by the designer. This is purely done to give the designer ideas. This doesn't mean that you can't offer specific Special Powers. If you have an idea for a specific Special Power that would work well with the chosen figure, please post that idea.

Phase 3: Draft Stage
Once the designer feels he has enough info to start creating a card, he may post his first draft. The lead designer must wait at least 24 hours before advancing to stage 3 from stage 2. This will ensure that everyone gets to post what they feel should be included on that character's card. During the Draft Stage, all aspects of the card should be discussed including stats, Special Powers, cost and power wording.

Phase 4: Voting Stage
When the designer feels that the card is ready for creation, he may propose to finalize the card. To finalize the card, there needs to be approval (thumbs up) from a majority of the active designers. After the card is finalized, the next designer in order is activated and the process resets.

[Granite-M]

1. I'm also in favor of Valhalla-style cards.

2. I would give priority to units with figures, or with decent approximations. For example, there's a Star Wars mini that I think looks like Robocop: Galactic Alliance Trooper #32 (http://www.trollandtoad.com/p180566.html). I don't think we should be exclusive, but having a reasonable mini is a pretty good point in favor of a custom.

EDIT: Also, call me old-fashioned but I'd prefer that we keep to customs that haven't already been covered in one of the other customs projects. No need to have even more multiples running around, especially when that time and energy could be spent on making originals.

[Balantai]

There are a couple of items that would need discussion, though.
Should these cards be on Vahallascape or Marvelscape skins?
Is a miniature required?
Will they use movie, tv, video game art or will they use miniature photo?
I have contacted A3n about possibly creating a Vahallascape template. If he has one or is willing to create one, I think this will be our best fit. I think most of us would like to see this. If he is unable, we'll use Marvelscape backing.
I think a miniature should be required. Even if it's just a proxy miniature that slightly resembles the character.
I think a miniature photo will be ideal since we are leaning towards Vahallascape.On a side note, no symbols. :twisted:

[mac122]

1. I'm also in favor of Valhalla-style cards.

2. I would give priority to units with figures, or with decent approximations. For example, there's a Star Wars mini that I think looks like Robocop: Galactic Alliance Trooper #32 (http://www.trollandtoad.com/p180566.html). I don't think we should be exclusive, but having a reasonable mini is a pretty good point in favor of a custom.

EDIT: Also, call me old-fashioned but I'd prefer that we keep to customs that haven't already been covered in one of the other customs projects. No need to have even more multiples running around, especially when that time and energy could be spent on making originals.
That figure would be close enough for me. We're not going to find exact figures for every character, we just need to have a reasonable facsimile.

[jcmcminis]

1)I also agree with Valhalla 'Scape.
2)It should have some form of a mini even if its a picture of the character printed on cardstock, standing in a candy land base. and its semi to scale.
3)If an appropriate mini is found then we could use a mini pic, though I prefer artwork pics myself. But if the mini you plan on useing is just a proxie then go artwork.



My first entry I have actually hade made for a while, but as Balantai said earlier I can use it as long as I dont mind criticism and making changes if necessary.

[Balantai]

1. I'm also in favor of Valhalla-style cards.

2. I would give priority to units with figures, or with decent approximations. For example, there's a Star Wars mini that I think looks like Robocop: Galactic Alliance Trooper #32 (http://www.trollandtoad.com/p180566.html). I don't think we should be exclusive, but having a reasonable mini is a pretty good point in favor of a custom. That is awesome. I can't wait until we do Robocop. :D


EDIT: Also, call me old-fashioned but I'd prefer that we keep to customs that haven't already been covered in one of the other customs projects. No need to have even more multiples running around, especially when that time and energy could be spent on making originals.
I completely understand where you're coming from, but I don't see any harm with reenvisioning a character that's already been created. If I start to put limits on what can and can't be created, it'll start to get messy. Do I say no Star Wars, no Comic Book and no D&D? What if someone wants to create Hellboy? He's a comic book character. Or what if someone want to create Drizzt? He's an awesome literature character that might have multiple options, but has never been created in a collaborative effort. In an effort to avoid all of these instances, opening it up to all fictional characters is, IMO, the fairest option.

[machinekng]

On a side note, no symbols. :twisted:

In that case, no Wheel of Time for me. I had wanted to make Saidin, Saidar symbols, but I guess I'll do that somewhere else.


I completely understand where you're coming from, but I don't see any harm with reenvisioning a character that's already been created. If I start to put limits on what can and can't be created, it'll start to get messy. Do I say no Star Wars, no Comic Book and no D&D? What if someone wants to create Hellboy? He's a comic book character. Or what if someone want to create Drizzt? He's an awesome literature character that might have multiple options, but has never been created in a collaborative effort. In an effort to avoid all of these instances, opening it up to all fictional characters is, IMO, the fairest option.

I think we should stick to characters that have no offical version. If no other offical/semi-offical project has made it, it's fair game.

[Balantai]

On a side note, no symbols. :twisted:

In that case, no Wheel of Time for me. I had wanted to make Saidin, Saidar symbols, but I guess I'll do that somewhere else.
I really want this project to be completely compatible with traditional Heroscape. As soon as we deviate from that equalibrium, we start to lose people. I know Marvelscape has the Superstrength symbol and C3G has the Flying Symbol, but until Vahallascaple uses them, I'd like to refrain.

[dfonse]

I am interested. I can not make custom cards but I may be able to get figures but I am not positive. I would like to make

Character's name. Ezio Auditore
What fictional genre the character is from. Video game: Assassin's Creed 2 and 3
What miniature you will be using. Arkmar painted white and given a sword.
A short description of the character or link to a description. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Ezio_Auditore_da_Firenze
Any specific direction you're looking to take the character. As a Jandar assassin with the ability to silent kill.

[Balantai]

1)I also agree with Valhalla 'Scape.
2)It should have some form of a mini even if its a picture of the character printed on cardstock, standing in a candy land base. and its semi to scale.
3)If an appropriate mini is found then we could use a mini pic, though I prefer artwork pics myself. But if the mini you plan on useing is just a proxie then go artwork.



My first entry I have actually hade made for a while, but as Balantai said earlier I can use it as long as I dont mind criticism and making changes if necessary.
I moved you to the top of the list, jcmcminis. Once we get everything hashed out, you can be our guinney pig. :twisted:

[Balantai]

I am interested. I can not make custom cards but I may be able to get figures but I am not positive. I would like to make

Character's name. Ezio Auditore
What fictional genre the character is from. Video game: Assassin's Creed 2 and 3
What miniature you will be using. Arkmar painted white and given a sword.
A short description of the character or link to a description. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Ezio_Auditore_da_Firenze
Any specific direction you're looking to take the character. As a Jandar assassin with the ability to silent kill.
Welcome aboard, dfonse. We're going to do this round robin style. I'll add your name to the bottom of the list. Once we get through the people above you, you'll get a chance at creating Ezio Auditore!

[machinekng]

I am interested. I can not make custom cards but I may be able to get figures but I am not positive. I would like to make

Character's name. Ezio Auditore
What fictional genre the character is from. Video game: Assassin's Creed 2 and 3
What miniature you will be using. Arkmar painted white and given a sword.
A short description of the character or link to a description. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Ezio_Auditore_da_Firenze
Any specific direction you're looking to take the character. As a Jandar assassin with the ability to silent kill.

Okay, but we haven't started design yet. Also, we're taking turns (rotation on first post). I'm sure Balantai would put you in. As for the figure, we're looking more for avaible premade figures, and less for moded figures (although I see the resemblance.)

[Balantai]

...we're looking more for avaible premade figures, and less for moded figures (although I see the resemblance.)
This is a good point. Let's try to use figures that alread exist. If you want to create a modded figure, that's fine for your custom games, but on the card, let's have use a figure that could be found.

[dfonse]

Cool but, what figure is being made now?

[Balantai]

Important Note

In order to get your chance to design, you will need to be an active participator in this thread. That doesn't mean 10 posts per day. It doesn't mean you need to post every day, either. It just means that you contribute regularly in a positive manner. I'll be the judge, jury and executioner when it comes down to deciding who gets skipped/removed.

[jcmcminis]

1)I also agree with Valhalla 'Scape.
2)It should have some form of a mini even if its a picture of the character printed on cardstock, standing in a candy land base. and its semi to scale.
3)If an appropriate mini is found then we could use a mini pic, though I prefer artwork pics myself. But if the mini you plan on useing is just a proxie then go artwork.



My first entry I have actually hade made for a while, but as Balantai said earlier I can use it as long as I dont mind criticism and making changes if necessary.
I moved you to the top of the list, jcmcminis. Once we get everything hashed out, you can be our guinney pig. :twisted:

Cool

[Balantai]

Cool but, what figure is being made now?
jcmcminis will be posting first as soon as we get all the rules hashed out. We're really close.

[Hrockle]

jcmcminis will be posting first as soon as we get all the rules hashed out. We're really close.

What else needs to be clarified?

[machinekng]

Okay, we've pretty much agreed on Vahallascape, agreed on no symbols, agreed on the genre thing. I think all we need to clarify is the pics.

[Hidicul]

I'd like to join in Balantai. I do have a question though on moded figs, what if th mod is a simple paint job like I did for Bizzarnage? All I did was add a couple of coats of white paint to a spare Venom. I think that simple paint jobs should be ok since they don't require any real talent to do. As far as card skins, GreyOwl has the General logos as .pnig files on his page, so any card skin could be used and just add the General's logo. That would allow the usage of all those cool card skins that GO has made and put on his page for us to use. I'm glad A3N is up to making the final cards, he is great at it, as is GO. As a side note on usable minis, I would suggest staying away from Reaper minis. They look great but some of them are pretty pricey and theycome unpainted.

[Balantai]

I'd like to join in Balantai. I do have a question though on moded figs, what if th mod is a simple paint job like I did for Bizzarnage? All I did was add a couple of coats of white paint to a spare Venom. I think that simple paint jobs should be ok since they don't require any real talent to do. As far as card skins, GreyOwl has the General logos as .pnig files on his page, so any card skin could be used and just add the General's logo. That would allow the usage of all those cool card skins that GO has made and put on his page for us to use. I'm glad A3N is up to making the final cards, he is great at it, as is GO. As a side note on usable minis, I would suggest staying away from Reaper minis. They look great but some of them are pretty pricey and theycome unpainted.
Welcome aboard.

I'm not sure we need to limit the minis based on cost. If you can't afford the mini, you could always proxy. For instance, a 5 dollar mini online is considered too pricey for my blood, but it might be completely feasible for someone else. I don't think we need to draw a line in the sand over this.

[Balantai]

Okay, we've pretty much agreed on Vahallascape, agreed on no symbols, agreed on the genre thing. I think all we need to clarify is the pics.
I really think mini pics will be necessary for them to look "official". I have no objection, though, to having both mini and photo cards.

[Balantai]

jcmcminis will be posting first as soon as we get all the rules hashed out. We're really close.

What else needs to be clarified?
What's pictured in your avatar could use some clarification. :twisted:

[Balantai]

Okay. I'm going to open up our first design to jcmcminis. Please reference the first post to see how to post your initial character.

As we go through the process, we can update our ruleset based on how everything goes. I look forward to your first pick, jc.

[Hidicul]

I'd like to join in Balantai. I do have a question though on moded figs, what if th mod is a simple paint job like I did for Bizzarnage? All I did was add a couple of coats of white paint to a spare Venom. I think that simple paint jobs should be ok since they don't require any real talent to do. As far as card skins, GreyOwl has the General logos as .pnig files on his page, so any card skin could be used and just add the General's logo. That would allow the usage of all those cool card skins that GO has made and put on his page for us to use. I'm glad A3N is up to making the final cards, he is great at it, as is GO. As a side note on usable minis, I would suggest staying away from Reaper minis. They look great but some of them are pretty pricey and theycome unpainted.
Welcome aboard.

I'm not sure we need to limit the minis based on cost. If you can't afford the mini, you could always proxy. For instance, a 5 dollar mini online is considered too pricey for my blood, but it might be completely feasible for someone else. I don't think we need to draw a line in the sand over this.
I base my choice ofnotusing Reaper minis on the fact that they come unpainted. With the cost to get the paints to use (acryllic dosen't cut it) and the price of the minis themselves, I just don't see it as cost effective, but I agree that itis up to the designer.

[Balantai]

I'd like to join in Balantai. I do have a question though on moded figs, what if th mod is a simple paint job like I did for Bizzarnage? All I did was add a couple of coats of white paint to a spare Venom. I think that simple paint jobs should be ok since they don't require any real talent to do. As far as card skins, GreyOwl has the General logos as .pnig files on his page, so any card skin could be used and just add the General's logo. That would allow the usage of all those cool card skins that GO has made and put on his page for us to use. I'm glad A3N is up to making the final cards, he is great at it, as is GO. As a side note on usable minis, I would suggest staying away from Reaper minis. They look great but some of them are pretty pricey and theycome unpainted.
Welcome aboard.

I'm not sure we need to limit the minis based on cost. If you can't afford the mini, you could always proxy. For instance, a 5 dollar mini online is considered too pricey for my blood, but it might be completely feasible for someone else. I don't think we need to draw a line in the sand over this.
I base my choice ofnotusing Reaper minis on the fact that they come unpainted. With the cost to get the paints to use (acryllic dosen't cut it) and the price of the minis themselves, I just don't see it as cost effective, but I agree that itis up to the designer.
I agree, hidicul. And it's why I probably won't ever choose a character that would require me to go out and purchase a 20 dollar mini. But I certainly don't want to punish someone that had an expensive mini and wants to use it.

[SirGalahad]

I'm going to stay back for a while and work on the C3G and Star Trek stuff for a while, but I'd like to be considered down the road. Would that be acceptable?

[Balantai]

I'm going to stay back for a while and work on the C3G and Star Trek stuff for a while, but I'd like to be considered down the road. Would that be acceptable?
Absolutely, SirGalahad. Contribute as much or as little as you'd like. If you decide you want a chance at designing, just let me know. We'll throw you in the rotation. I'm not looking to have this be a group with a limited number of designers. If you participate in the thread, you can design.

[Balantai]

There's one topic I've been avoiding: Playtesting. Playtesting has a way of killing projects. What's everyone's thoughts on playtesting?

[machinekng]

3 one on one (unit versus 3 different figures/squads with similar points.)

3 500 point army matches (with the custom in one of the armies)

everybody could sign up to do one or two matches.

[Hidicul]

3 one on one (unit versus 3 different figures/squads with similar points.)

3 500 point army matches (with the custom in one of the armies)

everybody could sign up to do one or two matches.
I could agree with that, though I'm not sure we would get a good enough feel for the character with only 5 being done. I think something close to what C3G does would be better. Those tests, though probably not as extinsive as the official units get, lets us get a good feel for the card and gives us a better look at the point cost.

[Balantai]

3 one on one (unit versus 3 different figures/squads with similar points.)

3 500 point army matches (with the custom in one of the armies)

everybody could sign up to do one or two matches.
C3G has created a fantastic playtesting form that even Gbob has said is great. If we move forward with playtesting, we'll use that process.

If we force everyone to sign up and playtest, the project will likely fail. Many people don't have the time or interest in playtesting. If everyone has to playtest, it's going to feel like work. That's not what I'm looking for.

[Hidicul]

3 one on one (unit versus 3 different figures/squads with similar points.)

3 500 point army matches (with the custom in one of the armies)

everybody could sign up to do one or two matches.
C3G has created a fantastic playtesting form that even Gbob has said is great. If we move forward with playtesting, we'll use that process.

If we force everyone to sign up and playtest, the project will likely fail. Many people don't have the time or interest in playtesting. If everyone has to playtest, it's going to feel like work. That's not what I'm looking for.
I can run the playtests Balantia. I think with me running one for each figure, we could just see if anyone else would be intrested to run a playtest at the time, or I could possably run a second one using all different figures.

[Hrockle]

C3G has created a fantastic playtesting form that even Gbob has said is great. If we move forward with playtesting, we'll use that process.

If we force everyone to sign up and playtest, the project will likely fail. Many people don't have the time or interest in playtesting. If everyone has to playtest, it's going to feel like work. That's not what I'm looking for.

Perhaps you can link that form?

What if we had a separate set of people who enjoy playtesting to playtest cards, or just allow onlookers to playtest?

[Hidicul]

C3G has created a fantastic playtesting form that even Gbob has said is great. If we move forward with playtesting, we'll use that process.

If we force everyone to sign up and playtest, the project will likely fail. Many people don't have the time or interest in playtesting. If everyone has to playtest, it's going to feel like work. That's not what I'm looking for.

Perhaps you can link that form?

What if we had a separate set of people who enjoy playtesting to playtest cards, or just allow onlookers to playtest?
All you need to do is go to the C3G playtest thread and click on the link there for a blank one, although I think we should ask Bats if he minds us using that sheet. You want me shoot him question about that Balantia?

[Balantai]

I will playtest when I have time, but that doesn't happen too often. :?

[SirGalahad]

Playtesters would have to agree to honor the die results, no matter what. If they believe the playtests might have been less than valid because of quirky dice, they are welcome to redo them, but report all results. I have playtested a number of figures, and that's the way it seems to work. Getting one-shot is no fun, so running the test again helps to ensure that it was just a fluke and not that something is wrong with the design.

[Balantai]

C3G has created a fantastic playtesting form that even Gbob has said is great. If we move forward with playtesting, we'll use that process.

If we force everyone to sign up and playtest, the project will likely fail. Many people don't have the time or interest in playtesting. If everyone has to playtest, it's going to feel like work. That's not what I'm looking for.

Perhaps you can link that form?

What if we had a separate set of people who enjoy playtesting to playtest cards, or just allow onlookers to playtest?
All you need to do is go to the C3G playtest thread and click on the link there for a blank one, although I think we should ask Bats if he minds us using that sheet. You want me shoot him question about that Balantia?
I'm 99.99% sure Bats wouldn't mind if we used the form. If you want to send him a PM, you're more than welcome to. Afterall, I was an active part of C3G at the time of it's creation. :D

[Balantai]

Perhaps you can link that form?

Here you go. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28451)

[Balantai]

If we playtest, ideally, we'd have three people playtest each figure. Then we could have those three playtesters propose a cost based on their own playtests and finalize from there.

[Hidicul]

Playtesters would have to agree to honor the die results, no matter what. If they believe the playtests might have been less than valid because of quirky dice, they are welcome to redo them, but report all results. I have playtested a number of figures, and that's the way it seems to work. Getting one-shot is no fun, so running the test again helps to ensure that it was just a fluke and not that something is wrong with the design.
I honor all the results of the dice Sir G, I even offered to re-test When I tested the SCS and ArkilloEviserated Superman with a 20 the first time I tried;) I agree that some tests should be redone due to overly quirky results.

C3G has created a fantastic playtesting form that even Gbob has said is great. If we move forward with playtesting, we'll use that process.

If we force everyone to sign up and playtest, the project will likely fail. Many people don't have the time or interest in playtesting. If everyone has to playtest, it's going to feel like work. That's not what I'm looking for.

Perhaps you can link that form?

What if we had a separate set of people who enjoy playtesting to playtest cards, or just allow onlookers to playtest?
All you need to do is go to the C3G playtest thread and click on the link there for a blank one, although I think we should ask Bats if he minds us using that sheet. You want me shoot him question about that Balantia?
I'm 99.99% sure Bats wouldn't mind if we used the form. If you want to send him a PM, you're more than welcome to. Afterall, I was an active part of C3G at the time of it's creation. :D
I was think along the lines that it would be respectful of us to ask him is all Balantia. I agree that I don't think that Bats will have a proble, but I'll shoot him the request anyways.;) Like I said I think if we have two more people willing to do al the playtesting with me or just have two people sign up when it's time we should be fine for playtesting.

Edit: Since Balantia ninja'd me saying he wanted 3 tests ran, I changed the original one more to two more

[mac122]

Sorry, late to the discussion on playtesting. Darn work keeps getting in the way.;)
Adding a playtesting component would be great, but I understand many don't have the time to playtest on a regular basis. I definitely think we should require figures to pass playtesting before getting our stamp of approval, as long as performing playtests is not a requirement for membership in the group.

A note on the C3G playtesting rules: the playtesting guidelines for Project Pokemon and TrekScape are based off of C3G's. If it ain't broke, don't recreate the wheel...or something like that.

[Balantai]

If it ain't broke, don't recreate the wheel...or something like that.
That's awesome. It's going in my signature. :D

[jcmcminis]

Ok well seeing as I am first
Character Name: Simon BelmontGenre: Video Game (Castlevania)
Miniature Used:For now the Drow Chainfighter as I have not been able to find a white guy with a whip. If I get another Drow I will probably repaint it to look like Simon.
Description: Whip wielding undead slaying hero of the original Castlevania, decendant of a long line of vampire hunters.
Direction: I actually have had a card made up for him for about a month and thought posting him here would help balance him out for play. Also in anticipation of posting him in this thread I wrote a little Bio on why and who brought him to Valhalla, enjoy.

Bio: Scouts returned to Jandar in his war room bringing bad news, he had lost more troops to the Esenweins and their zombie minions. Jandar moved to his wellspring chamber, looking to find someone who could help battle the undead minions of Utgar. As he gazed into the pool his vision first came upon a dark skinned Earth warrior fighting with a katana, but as he watch him battle a vampire, the man know as Blade seemed to reckless for Jandar's liking. The vision faded and then came unto Earth again, but Jandar new that his vision had crossed dimensions. Here he watched as a Proffessor and his allies battled against a vampire and his gypsy minions. Van Helsing and his group impressed him, but they were not really warriors. The pool faded and cleared upon yet another Earth and Jandar watched as a lone warrior battled his way through a countless number of undead. Wielding a whip made of chain, Jandar was amazed as the warrior destroyed skeletons, zombies, magically animated suits of armor and many other foes. The warrior eventually faced of against a powerful vampire, and thought he destroyed it, the warrior was mortally wounded. Jandar brought him to Valhalla, healed his wounds and told him of his plight, Simon Belmont had a new vampire to hunt.

[mac122]

That's awesome. It's going in my signature.

First I was like :shock:
Then I was like :passout:
Then, when I woke up, I was like :excited:

Thanks, Balantai, you made my day!:D

[Balantai]

For those of you not familiar with jcmcminis' choice, here (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Simon_Belmont) is a good place to look.

[Balantai]

Here's (http://miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/656051) another possibility for a mini.

[jcmcminis]

Sorry Balantai I should have provided something like that. Here is the image that I am currently using on the card I have made up.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll128/jcmcminis/th_simon-old.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll128/jcmcminis/?action=view&current=simon-old.jpg)

[jcmcminis]

Here's (http://miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/656051) another possibility for a mini.

Yeah except that mini has boobs ;)

[Balantai]

Here's (http://miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/656051) another possibility for a mini.

Yeah except that mini has boobs ;)
Eh. It's just lumpy breastplate armor. :D

[Hrockle]

I'm thinking perhaps

Life 4
Move 6
Attack 3
Defense 2

Vampire Killer+2
If Simon Belmont is attacking a figure that is undead, add two dice to his attack.

Flying Chain
When counting spaces for Simon Belmont’s movement, ignore elevations. Simon Belmont may move over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and move over obstacles such as ruins. When Simon Belmont starts to Flying Chain, if he is engaged he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

[Balantai]

My ideas:

I'd like to see some sort of bonus when battling Undead. Maybe even a further bonus against Undead figures with the Life Drain special power.

I think he should have a restriction on his Whip attack similar to the Drow Chainfighter. I'd hate to see Simon standing on a ledge 20 levels above his intended target attacking with his whip. Perhaps this would be easiest done by making his chain a special attack and his normal attack be his dagger.

He was cursed with impending death. We could make that into a power.

The wiki page says he's able to sense undead. You could make a special power based on that ability.

[Hrockle]

My ideas:

I'd like to see some sort of bonus when battling Undead. Maybe even a further bonus against Undead figures with the Life Drain special power.

I think he should have a restriction on his Whip attack similar to the Drow Chainfighter. I'd hate to see Simon standing on a ledge 20 levels above his intended target attacking with his whip. Perhaps this would be easiest done by making his chain a special attack and his normal attack be his dagger.

He was cursed with impending death. We could make that into a power.

The wiki page says he's able to sense undead. You could make a special power based on that ability.

I like these.

[Hidicul]

OK first,on the playtest form, I sent a request to Bats and he said to get an ok from all the Heros. I have sent the request to all the Heros and have 2 yes votes in as of now.

OK onto the card. I think in the undead power it also needs to list Vampire. Although they are undead, the designers did not lump them into the undead species, that being the case I really think that the power needs to mention both otherwise it is a theme break IMHO.

[Balantai]

Just brainstorming here:

Chain Whip Special Attack
Range Special. Attack ?.
Choose 2 (or 3) spaces in a straight line from Simon. Chosen spaces may not be more than 5 spaces below Simon's base or 5 spaces above Simon's height. All figures on the chosen spaces are affected by Chain Whip Special Attack. Roll ? attack dice once for all effected figures. Figures roll defense dice seperately. Undead figures roll 2 less defense dice when defending against Simon's Chain Whip Special Attack.

Something like that perhaps?

[Balantai]

OK first,on the playtest form, I sent a request to Bats and he said to get an ok from all the Heros. I have sent the request to all the Heros and have 2 yes votes in as of now.

OK onto the card. I think in the undead power it also needs to list Vampire. Although they are undead, the designers did not lump them into the undead species, that being the case I really think that the power needs to mention both otherwise it is a theme break IMHO.
As I am not an avid Vahallascape player, who are the vampires?

[Hidicul]

OK first,on the playtest form, I sent a request to Bats and he said to get an ok from all the Heros. I have sent the request to all the Heros and have 2 yes votes in as of now.

OK onto the card. I think in the undead power it also needs to list Vampire. Although they are undead, the designers did not lump them into the undead species, that being the case I really think that the power needs to mention both otherwise it is a theme break IMHO.
As I am not an avid Vahallascape player, who are the vampires?

The Enswines (sp?) from wave 7 scratch that, I just double checked my self and they are Undead. I don't know why I thought they made them Vampire. My bad guys.

[Balantai]

OK first,on the playtest form, I sent a request to Bats and he said to get an ok from all the Heros. I have sent the request to all the Heros and have 2 yes votes in as of now.

OK onto the card. I think in the undead power it also needs to list Vampire. Although they are undead, the designers did not lump them into the undead species, that being the case I really think that the power needs to mention both otherwise it is a theme break IMHO.
As I am not an avid Vahallascape player, who are the vampires?
The Enswines (sp?) from wave 7
Aren't they Undead? :confused:

The only way to differentiate them as Vampires is to reference the Drain Life Special Power.

[machinekng]

After looking through the Simon wiki, I noticed Holy Water under Simon's sub weapons. I think that could work out to be an interseting special attack.

Holy Water Special Attack
Range 4 Attack 1/2 (?)
Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the choosen figures are affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Roll 1 die at once for all affected figures. Each figure affected rolls defense dice separately. Simon Belmont is never affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Undead may never roll defense dice against Holy Water Special Attack.

The ability would be useful against swarms of zombies.

[dfonse]

OK first,on the playtest form, I sent a request to Bats and he said to get an ok from all the Heros. I have sent the request to all the Heros and have 2 yes votes in as of now.

OK onto the card. I think in the undead power it also needs to list Vampire. Although they are undead, the designers did not lump them into the undead species, that being the case I really think that the power needs to mention both otherwise it is a theme break IMHO.
As I am not an avid Vahallascape player, who are the vampires?
The Enswines (sp?) from wave 7
Aren't they Undead? :confused:

The only way to differentiate them as Vampires is to reference the Drain Life Special Power.

You have a point maybe Simon gets +2 against undead or +4 against figures with life drain.

[machinekng]

OK first,on the playtest form, I sent a request to Bats and he said to get an ok from all the Heros. I have sent the request to all the Heros and have 2 yes votes in as of now.

OK onto the card. I think in the undead power it also needs to list Vampire. Although they are undead, the designers did not lump them into the undead species, that being the case I really think that the power needs to mention both otherwise it is a theme break IMHO.
As I am not an avid Vahallascape player, who are the vampires?
The Enswines (sp?) from wave 7
Aren't they Undead? :confused:

The only way to differentiate them as Vampires is to reference the Drain Life Special Power.

You have a point maybe Simon gets +2 against undead or +4 against figures with life drain.

You could do both.

Vampire Slayer
When attacking undead, Simon Belmont may add 2 to his defense dice. When attacking undead that posses the Life Drain ability, you may add 4 to his defense dice.

[Hidicul]

Holy Water Special Attack
Range 4 Attack 1/2 (?)
Choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces to attack. Any figures adjacent to the choosen figures are affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Roll 1 die once for all affected figures. Each affected figure rolls defense dice separately. Undead may never roll defense dice against Holy Water Special Attack. Simon Belmont is never affected by his Holy Water Special Attack.

Just cleaned andstreamlined the wording to be more official. I like the idea of an explosion based powewr for him.

[Hrockle]

Holy Water Special Attack
Range 4 Attack 1/2 (?)
Choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figures are affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Roll 1 die once for all affected figures. Each affected figure rolls defense dice separately. Undead may never roll defense dice against Holy Water Special Attack. Simon Belmont is never affected by his Holy Water Special Attack.

Just cleaned and streamlined the wording to be more official. I like the idea of an explosion based power for him.

1 would be situational, 2 for more use.

[machinekng]

Wanted to compile my ideas into card format

Left Columm: I think the origional is good
Stats: Good

Reach
Same as Fen Hydra

Vampire Hunter
When Simon Belmont attacks an Undead figure, he may add 2 dice to Simon Belmont's attack. If the targeted Undead figure posesses the Life Drain special ability, you may add an additional 2 dice to Simon Belmont's attack.

Holy Water Special Attack
Range 4 Attack 1/2 (?)
Choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces to attack. Any figures adjacent to the choosen figures are affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Roll (?) dice once for all affected figures. Each affected figure rolls defense dice separately. Undead may never roll defense dice against Holy Water Special Attack. Simon Belmont is never affected by his Holy Water Special Attack.

[Hidicul]

Wanted to compile my ideas into card format

Left Columm: I think the origional is good
Stats: Good

Reach
Same as Fen Hydra

Vampire Hunter
When Simon Belmont attacks an Undead figure, he may add 2 dice to Simon Belmont's attack. If the targeted Undead figure posesses the Life Drain special ability, you may add an additional 2 dice to Simon Belmont's attack.

Holy Water Special Attack
Range 4 Attack 1/2 (?)
Choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces to attack. Any figures adjacent to the choosen figures are affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Roll (?) dice once for all affected figures. Each affected figure rolls defense dice separately. Undead may never roll defense dice against Holy Water Special Attack. Simon Belmont is never affected by his Holy Water Special Attack.
With Holy Water Special Attack it needs to be 1 attack die, 2 would be to strong for not allowing the target to roll defense. Also after reading it, I think it needs a line in the beginning of the text stating that it only affects Undead figures.

[machinekng]

In that case, it would be

Holy Water Special Attack
Range 4 Attack 1/2 (?)
Only Undead may be affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces to attack. Any figures adjacent to the choosen figures are affected by Holy Water Special Attack. Roll (?) dice once for all affected figures. Each affected figure rolls defense dice separately.

[Hidicul]

Nice, now we just need to decide on the actual attack for it.

[SirGalahad]

Like this - first power below, You can still call it Holy Water SA

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/2/5/7/7/ana_original.jpg

[jcmcminis]

These are all great ideas, I will have a lot to mull over before I present the 1st draft tomorrow evening.

[machinekng]

Like this - first power below, You can still call it Holy Water SA

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/2/5/7/7/ana_original.jpg

The power is meant to be an explosion attack.

[Hrockle]

The power is meant to be an explosion attack.

Really just splash attack, like a kid throwing a water balloon.

[machinekng]

The power is meant to be an explosion attack.

Really just splash attack, like a kid throwing a water balloon.

That's what I meant, but they're represented the same way in 'scape.

[Hrockle]

That's what I meant, but they're represented the same way in 'scape.

I know, just me being silly.

[wulfhunter667]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.

[Hidicul]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?

[wulfhunter667]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

[Lamaclown]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

If that is the way we want to go, how about...

Any Undead figure that is adjacent to Simon will receive any leaving engagement attacks from Simon.

This streamlines it a bit but says exactly what you want the affect to be.

I would think of sensing the undead more as a pre-emptive ability though rather than an after the fact ability. Something that maybe affects his movement towards the Undead- kind of a "I know they are here somewhere, I can feel it."

SENSE UNDEAD (or I SEE UNDEAD PEOPLE ;))
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to an Undead figure.

[Hidicul]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

If that is the way we want to go, how about...

Any Undead figure that is adjacent to Simon will receive any leaving engagement attacks from Simon.

This streamlines it a bit but says exactly what you want the affect to be.

I would think of sensing the undead more as a pre-emptive ability though rather than an after the fact ability. Something that maybe affects his movement towards the Undead- kind of a "I know they are here somewhere, I can feel it."

SENSE UNDEAD (or I SEE UNDEAD PEOPLE ;))
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to an Undead figure.
Not bad. I like that. Also Wulf how about giving him a power like the Greater Ice Elemental's Ice Spikes. That way when they move adjacentto him he ges a free swipe at them? That may be the way to go if it's left as a damage ability, but I really like the move boost.

[mac122]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

If that is the way we want to go, how about...

Any Undead figure that is adjacent to Simon will receive any leaving engagement attacks from Simon.

This streamlines it a bit but says exactly what you want the affect to be.

I would think of sensing the undead more as a pre-emptive ability though rather than an after the fact ability. Something that maybe affects his movement towards the Undead- kind of a "I know they are here somewhere, I can feel it."

SENSE UNDEAD (or I SEE UNDEAD PEOPLE ;))
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to an Undead figure.
Not bad. I like that. Also Wulf how about giving him a power like the Greater Ice Elemental's Ice Spikes. That way when they move adjacentto him he ges a free swipe at them? That may be the way to go if it's left as a damage ability, but I really like the move boost.
I'd say combine them.
Sense Undead
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to at least one Undead figure. At the end of his move, roll 1 attack die for each opposing Undead figure adjacent to Simon. Any skull rolled counts as one unblockable hit on that Undead figure.

Simon senses the Undead figure' kicks it up a notch, and gets in a gets in a quick strike before the Undead knows what hit him/her/it.

[Lamaclown]

I'd say combine them.
Sense Undead
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to at least one Undead figure. At the end of his move, roll 1 attack die for each opposing Undead figure adjacent to Simon. Any skull rolled counts as one unblockable hit on that Undead figure.

Simon senses the Undead figure' kicks it up a notch, and gets in a gets in a quick strike before the Undead knows what hit him/her/it.

Nice! I like that.

[mac122]

I'd say combine them.
Sense Undead
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to at least one Undead figure. At the end of his move, roll 1 attack die for each opposing Undead figure adjacent to Simon. Any skull rolled counts as one unblockable hit on that Undead figure.

Simon senses the Undead figure' kicks it up a notch, and gets in a gets in a quick strike before the Undead knows what hit him/her/it.

Nice! I like that.
It may need a better name than Sense Undead since he's also getting a shot at damaging them. Strike Undead?

[Hidicul]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

If that is the way we want to go, how about...

Any Undead figure that is adjacent to Simon will receive any leaving engagement attacks from Simon.

This streamlines it a bit but says exactly what you want the affect to be.

I would think of sensing the undead more as a pre-emptive ability though rather than an after the fact ability. Something that maybe affects his movement towards the Undead- kind of a "I know they are here somewhere, I can feel it."

SENSE UNDEAD (or I SEE UNDEAD PEOPLE ;))
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to an Undead figure.
Not bad. I like that. Also Wulf how about giving him a power like the Greater Ice Elemental's Ice Spikes. That way when they move adjacentto him he ges a free swipe at them? That may be the way to go if it's left as a damage ability, but I really like the move boost.
I'd say combine them.
Sense Undead
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to at least one Undead figure. At the end of his move, roll 1 attack die for each opposing Undead figure adjacent to Simon. Any skull rolled counts as one unblockable hit on that Undead figure.

Simon senses the Undead figure' kicks it up a notch, and gets in a gets in a quick strike before the Undead knows what hit him/her/it.
The only thing I see is that it would give him two attacks if moved adjacentto any undead. I'm not sure that would be a good idea, even though one is a one die attack. I think this one would need to pass a majority from the people here.

[mac122]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

If that is the way we want to go, how about...

Any Undead figure that is adjacent to Simon will receive any leaving engagement attacks from Simon.

This streamlines it a bit but says exactly what you want the affect to be.

I would think of sensing the undead more as a pre-emptive ability though rather than an after the fact ability. Something that maybe affects his movement towards the Undead- kind of a "I know they are here somewhere, I can feel it."

SENSE UNDEAD (or I SEE UNDEAD PEOPLE ;))
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to an Undead figure.
Not bad. I like that. Also Wulf how about giving him a power like the Greater Ice Elemental's Ice Spikes. That way when they move adjacentto him he ges a free swipe at them? That may be the way to go if it's left as a damage ability, but I really like the move boost.
I'd say combine them.
Sense Undead
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to at least one Undead figure. At the end of his move, roll 1 attack die for each opposing Undead figure adjacent to Simon. Any skull rolled counts as one unblockable hit on that Undead figure.

Simon senses the Undead figure' kicks it up a notch, and gets in a gets in a quick strike before the Undead knows what hit him/her/it.
The only thing I see is that it would give him two attacks if moved adjacentto any undead. I'm not sure that would be a good idea, even though one is a one die attack. I think this one would need to pass a majority from the people here.
That is a little strong, now that you mention it. Maybe he chooses one figure he's adjacent to for the unblockable attack. Or the whole thing could be a Special.

[Lamaclown]

It may need a better name than Sense Undead since he's also getting a shot at damaging them. Strike Undead?

Well, since the Vampires were introduced in Wave 7 how about "The Seventh Sense"? ;)

[Lamaclown]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

If that is the way we want to go, how about...

Any Undead figure that is adjacent to Simon will receive any leaving engagement attacks from Simon.

This streamlines it a bit but says exactly what you want the affect to be.

I would think of sensing the undead more as a pre-emptive ability though rather than an after the fact ability. Something that maybe affects his movement towards the Undead- kind of a "I know they are here somewhere, I can feel it."

SENSE UNDEAD (or I SEE UNDEAD PEOPLE ;))
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to an Undead figure.
Not bad. I like that. Also Wulf how about giving him a power like the Greater Ice Elemental's Ice Spikes. That way when they move adjacentto him he ges a free swipe at them? That may be the way to go if it's left as a damage ability, but I really like the move boost.
I'd say combine them.
Sense Undead
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to at least one Undead figure. At the end of his move, roll 1 attack die for each opposing Undead figure adjacent to Simon. Any skull rolled counts as one unblockable hit on that Undead figure.

Simon senses the Undead figure' kicks it up a notch, and gets in a gets in a quick strike before the Undead knows what hit him/her/it.
The only thing I see is that it would give him two attacks if moved adjacentto any undead. I'm not sure that would be a good idea, even though one is a one die attack. I think this one would need to pass a majority from the people here.

And, of course, we haven't even seen what jcmcminis has already come up with. It may be something that makes all our posts obsolete with its total awesomeness.

[Hidicul]

Wow. I went to school, came home, ate dinner and played scrabble with my younguns and 8 pages pops up in here. Cool.
So, the only idea I haven't seen elaborated on yet is the sense undead thing. I have an idea about that.
Sense Undead (terrible, I know, but a working title)
When an Undead figure with the Stealth Flying ability moves adjacent to Simon, it loses the ability to leave engagements without being attacked.
I know. The wording on this is horrible, but you get what I'm trying to say here.
That's my :2cents: for now.
Undead Sense
When an Undead figure is adjacent to Simon, if it has the Stealth Flying special power, it loses Stealth Flying and nstead has Flying. Undead Sense only affects Undead figures with the Stealth Flying special power while that figure is adjacent to Simon.

How's that Wulf?
Definately closer. But a little wordy I think. On the right track though. ;)

If that is the way we want to go, how about...

Any Undead figure that is adjacent to Simon will receive any leaving engagement attacks from Simon.

This streamlines it a bit but says exactly what you want the affect to be.

I would think of sensing the undead more as a pre-emptive ability though rather than an after the fact ability. Something that maybe affects his movement towards the Undead- kind of a "I know they are here somewhere, I can feel it."

SENSE UNDEAD (or I SEE UNDEAD PEOPLE ;))
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to an Undead figure.
Not bad. I like that. Also Wulf how about giving him a power like the Greater Ice Elemental's Ice Spikes. That way when they move adjacentto him he ges a free swipe at them? That may be the way to go if it's left as a damage ability, but I really like the move boost.
I'd say combine them.
Sense Undead
Simon may add 3 to his Move number if he will end his turn adjacent to at least one Undead figure. At the end of his move, roll 1 attack die for each opposing Undead figure adjacent to Simon. Any skull rolled counts as one unblockable hit on that Undead figure.

Simon senses the Undead figure' kicks it up a notch, and gets in a gets in a quick strike before the Undead knows what hit him/her/it.
The only thing I see is that it would give him two attacks if moved adjacentto any undead. I'm not sure that would be a good idea, even though one is a one die attack. I think this one would need to pass a majority from the people here.

And, of course, we haven't even seen what jcmcminis has already come up with. It may be something that makes all our posts obsolete with its total awesomeness.
Well he will be swamped catching up to us when he gets back on:lol: I could strengthening the attack and makingit a SA. Give me a bit and I'll see what I come up with.

EDIT: I got a green light from all of the C3G Heros, so we can use their playtest sheet to test out our customs. Balantia I think you should put a link to it in the OP for anyone that is intrested in playtesting.

[jcmcminis]

Ok will have my first draft up later today but wanted to comment on some suggestions of abilities already made.

Reach- had this on the card already, perfect way to represent his whip.

Detect Undead-I was thinking maybe a bonus to initiative if you opponent places an order marker on an undead army card. Sort of Simon knowing that the undead are going to be on the move? Of course I like the movement bonus ideas as well.

Also found another possibility for a mini for Simon. What do you guys think of this one.

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/631442

[SirGalahad]

Detect Undead-I was thinking maybe a bonus to initiative if you opponent places an order marker on an undead army card. Sort of Simon knowing that the undead are going to be on the move? Of course I like the movement bonus ideas as well.

Also found another possibility for a mini for Simon. What do you guys think of this one.

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/631442

Either way (initiative boost or movement boost) sounds thematic and within the parameters of the game.

I don't know about $6 for an unpainted metal mini, though

[Balantai]

EDIT: I got a green light from all of the C3G Heros, so we can use their playtest sheet to test out our customs. Balantia I think you should put a link to it in the OP for anyone that is intrested in playtesting.
After we pass our first character, I'll create a playtesting thread and link the playtest sheet and playtest hints to the first post.

[Balantai]

I don't see 6 dollars as paying too much for a mini. Ultimately, let's leave it up to the designer as to which mini to use. I think the most recent mini that JC found is a great fit for Simon. If that's the one he wants to use, it sounds good to me.

[Hrockle]

The fig is nice, but as Galahad said, a bit pricey. I think the movement bonus is more fitting than an initiative bonus.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Balantai

It's pricey for those without much money to spend.

[Balantai]

I would be careful not to overwhelm his card with too many powers that only give bonuses when fighting undead. Or, if you do, keep the bonuses pretty mild. Otherwise, you risk making him too much of a niche character that becomes way overcosted in battles that don't have undead.

[Balantai]

The fig is nice, but as Galahad said, a bit pricey. I think the movement bonus is more fitting than an initiative bonus.
I think both are very fitting. I could justify either bonus.

[jcmcminis]

Well the reason I looked for a new mini to use was because, I thought that it was decided to use a mini pic on the card and not an actual art one. I could not see having a pic of the drow chain fighter on Simon's card, except as the targeting zone.

[Balantai]

Well the reason I looked for a new mini to use was because, I thought that it was decided to use a mini pic on the card and not an actual art one. I could not see having a pic of the drow chain fighter on Simon's card, except as the targeting zone.
I could definitely understand that concern. Here's another option. (http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/chain%20fighter/sku-down/02659#detail/02659_Chaindude)

[machinekng]

I think the powers depend on Simon's role. Is he a counter-draft against undead armies, or an all around unit with bonuses against undead.

[Taeblewalker]

I have been busy with family, so I couldn't read or post in this very fast-moving thread! Simon looks good - I need to read more thoroughly when I'm not being rushed out the door - but I see him as a great alternative to Ana in the anti-undead role. Great work!

[jcmcminis]

I think the powers depend on Simon's role. Is he a counter-draft against undead armies, or an all around unit with bonuses against undead.

I plan on making him the later definatley

[dfonse]

I would be careful not to overwhelm his card with too many powers that only give bonuses when fighting undead. Or, if you do, keep the bonuses pretty mild. Otherwise, you risk making him too much of a niche character that becomes way overcosted in battles that don't have undead.

It seems that he should have only one special attack (Maybe against undead or using his whip)

One special bonus (Against Undead or life drain)

And One Special move (Like using his whip to maneuver.)

[Hidicul]

I think limiting the cards to 3, mabey 4 powers would be appropriate. As for the powers for Simon, I'd rather his whip be represented as a power, like I belive James Murphy's is. For an attack, if it is based on his undead fighting, I likewhat we kicked around with the holy water one, if it is made for a general attack anyone, dosen't his sword have some powers in the game? I can't remeber since it's been a long time since I played Castlevania. For a move bonus, I think it should be related to the undead so as not to break the them.

[jcmcminis]

I think limiting the cards to 3, mabey 4 powers would be appropriate. As for the powers for Simon, I'd rather his whip be represented as a power, like I belive James Murphy's is. For an attack, if it is based on his undead fighting, I likewhat we kicked around with the holy water one, if it is made for a general attack anyone, dosen't his sword have some powers in the game? I can't remeber since it's been a long time since I played Castlevania. For a move bonus, I think it should be related to the undead so as not to break the them.

Actually in the game Simon's whip is his primary weapon, then he has several secondary weapons, holy water, dagger, axe and boomerang.

[Balantai]

When you're ready to post your first draft, please use this format:

Character Name
(Name of Video Game, Book, Movie, TV Show, etc.)
(Genre)

Race
Unique Hero
Class
Personality

Health: X
Move: X
Range: X
Attack: X
Defense: X

Size: X

Special Power 1 Name
Description

Special Power 2 Name
Description

Points: ??? (please leave point cost as ??? until we get to cost discussion)

[Lamaclown]

I would think that in order to keep him an all-around figure, if he has three abilities, keep two of them general and 1 of them some sort of a bonus against undead.

IOW, if he gets a movement bonus against undead, his special attack should be general as well as his third ability.

I like the thought of his whip being a special ability rather than a special attack. That gives it the general use that would help make him an all-around draft pick.

Lookin forward to seeing your design, jcmcminis!

[dfonse]

Maybe Holy water Special Attack

Range 1 attack 3

Undead figures may not roll defense

[Lamaclown]

The problem I see with a special attack that affects all figures but is especially bad for undead is why would a non-undead figure receive wounds from having water thrown on them? If he has a special attack that has negative affect for undead the attack itself should affect only undead. But then you begin to lose the all-around quality that jcmcminis is going for.

That is why I think any special attack should be completely general with no specific affect against undead and any power that is specifically against undead should be an ability based power and not an attack.

[Hidicul]

When you're ready to post your first draft, please use this format:

Character Name
(Name of Video Game, Book, Movie, TV Show, etc.)
(Genre)

Race
Unique Hero
Class
Personality

Health: X
Move: X
Range: X
Attack: X
Defense: X

Size: X

Special Power 1 Name
Description

Special Power 2 Name
Description

Points: ??? (please leave point cost as ??? until we get to cost discussion)

I think this should be put on the OP so it can be found easily.

[mac122]

When you're ready to post your first draft, please use this format:

Character Name
(Name of Video Game, Book, Movie, TV Show, etc.)
(Genre)

Race
Unique Hero
Class
Personality

Life: X
Move: X
Range: X
Attack: X
Defense: X

Size: X

Special Power 1 Name
Description

Special Power 2 Name
Description

Points: ??? (please leave point cost as ??? until we get to cost discussion)

I think this should be put on the OP so it can be found easily.
Great idea, hidicul. Though Health should be Life.

[Hidicul]

Nice catch Mac, I just glanced over it without really looking.

[SirGalahad]

And Size should be moved under Personality.

[Hidicul]

When you're ready to post your first draft, please use this format:

Character Name
(Name of Video Game, Book, Movie, TV Show, etc.)
(Genre)

Race
Unique Hero
Class
Personality

Life: X
Move: X
Range: X
Attack: X
Defense: X

Size: X

Special Power 1 Name
Description

Special Power 2 Name
Description

Points: ??? (please leave point cost as ??? until we get to cost discussion)

I think this should be put on the OP so it can be found easily.
Great idea, hidicul. Though Health should be Life.

And Size should be moved under Personality.
I'm going to go hide now guys;) I can't belive I missed both of those in my scan of it. Maybe I better read things more thoroughly before suggesting they get put in the OP huh.:lol:
</IMG></IMG>

[SirGalahad]

No worries. That's why a community is more powerful than an individual.

[dfonse]

The problem I see with a special attack that affects all figures but is especially bad for undead is why would a non-undead figure receive wounds from having water thrown on them? If he has a special attack that has negative affect for undead the attack itself should affect only undead. But then you begin to lose the all-around quality that jcmcminis is going for.

That is why I think any special attack should be completely general with no specific affect against undead and any power that is specifically against undead should be an ability based power and not an attack.

You have a point. We need to find something general for every yet deadly to undead what about like blessed whip. Attack 5 range 3 undead figures roll 2 less defense against blessed whip.

[Lamaclown]

You have a point. We need to find something general for every yet deadly to undead what about like blessed whip. Attack 5 range 3 undead figures roll 2 less defense against blessed whip.

I could go along with that one. I've never personally been hit with a whip, but, boy, I bet it would hurt (and I'm not even Undead).

Depending on Simon's base stats I might lower the attack to 3. You wouldn't inflict as much damage on non-undead but an undead with a base defense of 4 that is dropped to 2 defending against an attack of 3- pretty good odds against the undead.

[mac122]

That kind of special would work much better and let Simon be useful in more armies.

[dfonse]

That kind of special would work much better and let Simon be useful in more armies.

Now we are all happy:D or at least me and Mac122

[Lamaclown]

That kind of special would work much better and let Simon be useful in more armies.

Now we are all happy:D or at least me and Mac122
Hey, this... :D... is me smiling ;)

[jcmcminis]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Health: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Vampire Killer Whip
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead with a normal attack, each skull rolled counts as one additional hit.

Axe Special Attack
Range 4. Lob 12 Attack 3
No line of sight is required.

Points: ???

I did some reading on the Castlevania wiki the reason the whip is so lethal to undead is one of Simon's decendants lovers was turned into a vampire and her soul was infused into the whip. I went with his axe for special attack rather than holy water to make him more draftable even if your opponenent does not have undead.

[Balantai]

The template is added to the first post.

[Balantai]

I like your first draft, JC. Here are my suggestions/critiques:

Reach and Vampire Killer Whip seem like they would make more sense if they were rolled into one Special Attack.

Whip Special Attack
Range 2 + Special. Attack 3
When attacking Whip Special Attack, the defending figure's base may not be more than 3 levels above Simon Belmont's height or 3 levels below his base. If the defending figure is Undead, all skulls rolled count as 1 additional hit.

I would then roll your axe Special Attack into his base stats by giving him a range of 4. This would make room for another ability on his card, also. Perhaps a sense undead ability?

[machinekng]

I like your first draft, JC. Here are my suggestions/critiques:

Reach and Vampire Killer Whip seem like they would make more sense if they were rolled into one Special Attack.

Whip Special Attack
Range 2 + Special. Attack 3
When attacking Whip Special Attack, the defending figure's base may not be more than 3 levels above Simon Belmont's height or 3 levels below his base. If the defending figure is Undead, all skulls rolled count as 1 additional hit.

I would then roll your axe Special Attack into his base stats by giving him a range of 4. This would make room for another ability on his card, also. Perhaps a sense undead ability?

If that's the case, I would also bump his base attack up to 4.

[jcmcminis]

The more I think about it, I would rather his whip be his primary attack, so maybe instead of a special attack we can do this.

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Health: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Vampire Killer Whip
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, each skull rolled counts as one additional hit.

Sense Undead
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card.


Points: ???

[Taeblewalker]

In a game vs. Undead, Simon more than justifies his points, but in any other match-up, he is like a Sir Denrick with a range boost but without bonding, +2 attack vs. Huge or Coward's Reward. His survivability is identical. I would put him at 90 points. He is highly draftable in a vs. Undead army, but he can be taken down easily enough by Zombie Horde, and is still vulnerable to Chilling Touch.

[Hidicul]

The more I think about it, I would rather his whip be his primary attack, so maybe instead of a special attack we can do this.

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4



Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Vampire Killer Whip
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, each skull rolled counts as one additional hit.

Sense Undead
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card.


Points: ???

Added Sir G's changes to the form.

[Lamaclown]

In a game vs. Undead, Simon more than justifies his points, but in any other match-up, he is like a Sir Denrick with a range boost but without bonding, +2 attack vs. Huge or Coward's Reward. His survivability is identical. I would put him at 90 points. He is highly draftable in a vs. Undead army, but he can be taken down easily enough by Zombie Horde, and is still vulnerable to Chilling Touch.

I think that is a pretty good assessment, TW.

Nice job, jcmcminis! I think his special ability rather than a special attack is a good direction to go.

[jcmcminis]

In a game vs. Undead, Simon more than justifies his points, but in any other match-up, he is like a Sir Denrick with a range boost but without bonding, +2 attack vs. Huge or Coward's Reward. His survivability is identical. I would put him at 90 points. He is highly draftable in a vs. Undead army, but he can be taken down easily enough by Zombie Horde, and is still vulnerable to Chilling Touch.

I think that is a pretty good assessment, TW.

Nice job, jcmcminis! I think his special ability rather than a special attack is a good direction to go.

Glad you like it, I tought initiative bonus rather than movment bonus was a better assessment at sensing undead.

Edit: Also thinking I should raise his attack to 4

[Hrockle]

Perhaps a resistance to chilling touch will make him much more viable then?

[jcmcminis]

Perhaps a resistance to chilling touch will make him much more viable then?

No what Tablewalker was saying is that he is not overpowered. Simon does not actually have any resistance to undead attacks, that why I did not give him any.

[A3n]

Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).

If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.
First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
So for the Brainstorming stage.
Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
Draft Stage.
Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.

Voting Stage.
Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.

Carding Stage.
PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.

HAVE FUN!!!


& best of luck guys.

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

Edit: Also thinking I should raise his attack to 4

That alone raises his cost at least 10 points.

It might be overpowered with the doubled skulls, even though it only works against Undead. If he has height advantage with his bonus range, and he is effectively Attack 10. You might:

A) Give him an auto skull like Sharwin, but only against Undead. This affects both heroes and squads. His cost should not be affected by this change, outside of the raising it already for the Attack of 4.

B) You can say that if he wounds an Undead figure, he does an automatic extra wound. That would be useless against squads, but be a great Vampire Killer ability. It might bring his cost back down 5 points.

Perhaps a resistance to chilling touch will make him much more viable then?

Perhaps he can cause an opponent to subtract 1 from a die when rolling for an Undead figure to use a power on him. That hurts both Chilling Touch and Soul Devour. Marcu is irrelevant, since Eternal Hatred is not used against any figure. This can bring his cost up 5 points or so.

[Hidicul]

B) You can say that if he wounds an Undead figure, he does an automatic extra wound. That would be useless against squads, but be a great Vampire Killer ability. It might bring his cost back down 5 points.


I like this idea TW, it's simple and has the potental to be leathal. Granted it's usless against squads, but with a nice attack and possable height how long are squad figures going to last?

[Taeblewalker]

B) You can say that if he wounds an Undead figure, he does an automatic extra wound. That would be useless against squads, but be a great Vampire Killer ability. It might bring his cost back down 5 points.


I like this idea TW, it's simple and has the potental to be leathal. Granted it's usless against squads, but with a nice attack and possable height how long are squad figures going to last?

The more I think about it, Attack 4 seems like a good match for a guy who is a major protagonist in a video game. He becomes pretty useful in any army build, though perhaps a little costly at 95-100 points.

The extra wound against Undead heroes puts him in the category of Brandis against fliers, but with fewer targets. The combined changes let him be more generally badass in any army, while still keeping the Vampire Killer theme going. He also is good against Sudema, by the way.

[Hidicul]

Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).


If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.
First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
So for the Brainstorming stage.
Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
Draft Stage.
Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.
Voting Stage.
Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.
Carding Stage.
PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.
HAVE FUN!!!
& best of luck guys.

Cheers
Well since no one else has said anythingabout this I will. I agree with A3N on all points. I think it may be a little late to implement the one post being updated for this design, but I think it is something that needs to be considered for the next design. As for a time limit on voting, I think going with C3G's standard 48 hours would fit the bill here.

[Lamaclown]

Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).



If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.
First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
So for the Brainstorming stage.
Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
Draft Stage.
Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.
Voting Stage.
Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.
Carding Stage.
PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.
HAVE FUN!!!& best of luck guys.

Cheers
Well since no one else has said anythingabout this I will. I agree with A3N on all points. I think it may be a little late to implement the one post being updated for this design, but I think it is something that needs to be considered for the next design. As for a time limit on voting, I think going with C3G's standard 48 hours would fit the bill here.

I agree that A3n has some sage advice in this post. Thanks, A3n!

[jcmcminis]

Ok here is the newest draft.
1) I raised his attack to 4.
2) Changed Vampire killer whip to undead hunter, It now is sort of a compound power in that you add an additional skull, but also intergrates the defense against d-20 rolls.
3)Sense Undead, someone suggested earlier that this would allow him to be able to do leaving attacks against those with slealth flying, I intergrated this into him as well.
What do you think now?

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Health: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

Reach
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

Undead Hunter
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If an undead figure uses an ability on Simon that requires a D20 roll, you may subtract 1 from that roll.

Sense Undead
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card. Simon may take a leaving engagement attack against all undead figure.


Points: ???

[Hidicul]

not bad,but I still think he should have a SA that effects un-Undead figures though.

[Taeblewalker]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

REACH
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

UNDEAD HUNTER
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If an undead figure uses an ability on Simon that requires a D20 roll, you may subtract 1 from that roll.

SENSE UNDEAD
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card. Simon may take a leaving engagement attack against all undead figure.


Points: ???

SENSE UNDEAD
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card. Simon may take a leaving engagement attack agaisnt adjacent Undead figures with Stealth Flying when they start to fly.

I would make him about 110 points.

not bad,but I still think he should have a SA that effects un-Undead figures though.

How about reach? That, plus his stats, makes him pretty solid against the living.

[jcmcminis]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

Size: Medium 5

REACH
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

UNDEAD HUNTER
When Simon attacks a figure that is Undead, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If an undead figure uses an ability on Simon that requires a D20 roll, you may subtract 1 from that roll.

SENSE UNDEAD
When rolling initive, you may add 1 to your roll for each of your opponent's order markers that are on an undead army card. Simon may take a leaving engagement attack agaisnt adjacent Undead figures with Stealth Flying when they start to fly.


Points: 110

Ok I like this, Thanks for the wording correction, Tablewlaker

not bad,but I still think he should have a SA that effects un-Undead figures though.

How about reach? That, plus his stats, makes him pretty solid against the living.[/quote]

Exactly

[Balantai]

Sense Undead is two seperate powers lumped together into one Special Power. When official characters have multiple powers lumped into one ability, they always happen in the same phase. For instance, John Doe may move though all figures. He is never attacked when leaving an engagement. Because both occur during the movement phase, the power is okay with multiple effects. This is not the case for Sense Undead. I really don't want to see Simon have four powers, so how about we drop a portion of the ability.

EDIT: The same is true for Undead Hunter. The triggers occur during different phases.

EDIT2: For Undead Hunter, instead of adding and automatic skull, (I hate adding automatic skulls since it removes the ability to whiff on a roll) how about we reduce the number of defense dice the defending undead figure can roll.

[Hidicul]

Sense Undead is two seperate powers lumped together into one Special Power. When official characters have multiple powers lumped into one ability, they always happen in the same phase. For instance, John Doe may move though all figures. He is never attacked when leaving an engagement. Because both occur during the movement phase, the power is okay with multiple effects. This is not the case for Sense Undead. I really don't want to see Simon have four powers, so how about we drop a portion of the ability.

EDIT: The same is true for Undead Hunter. The triggers occur during different phases.

EDIT2: For Undead Hunter, instead of adding and automatic skull, (I hate adding automatic skulls since it removes the ability to whiff on a roll) how about we reduce the number of defense dice the defending undead figure can roll.
Balantia has a point, there is way to many phases that the two powers activate to be able to really track when they trigger easily. I'll agree that with his stats and Reach he should be effective against the un-Undead:D I just like the sound of that, un-Undead.

[dfonse]

Yeah, undead lose 2 def. and thus he can wiff

[Balantai]

Suggestions:

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
When Simon attacks, Undead figures must roll 2 less defense dice while defending. If the defending Undead figure has the Drain Life Special Power, it must roll 3 less defense dice.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Points: ???

[Balantai]

Hi guys, this project sounds interesting but at the rate you guys are moving I definitely will not be able to participate in the discussions but I should be able to handle cards for you. On that note, putting them on Valhalla templates is not an issue but I only use the standard version not the SotM vine version (one day I'll get that set :cry:).


If I can I would like to make a few suggestions as to the process. What you currently have outlined is great but I feel it needs a little bit more order to it.
First off I would say that all discussion that is not part of the current phase should be eliminated. (Yes I know this post contradicts that but it's my first chance to put something down & you guys have moved so damn fast :p)
So for the Brainstorming stage.
Only 1 post per person. If you think of something afterwards &/or want to make changes to what you have suggested, then go back & edit your post. (this is something we have employed in the C3G & it works really well.)
If you disagree with idea's somebody else has put forward do so in your own 1 post. Don't start a discussion about it, just state clearly why you disagree & offer something in it's place.
Remember at this stage the wording doesn't have to be accurate or official or even written like a power, just put your thoughts down as they come to you as it is only brainstorming. It'll be up to the designer to take what he likes & try to put them into something close to official wording.
The time limit for the Brainstorming posts is a good idea, but you need to list it as part of that stage (not in the draft stage :p). I would've argued that 24 hours wasn't enough but the way you guys are flying through it's probably spot-on but may need constant monitoring if people start to realise that can't keep up with the pace.
Draft Stage.
Something else we have started to do in the C3G which I think is beneficial, is including some design notes. This is so other people can understand what you were trying to achieve & what & who influenced your ideas. Even if you are just copying & pasting the bits from peoples brainstorming posts that influenced you.
Update the original post as soon as a decision is made & make a post to state that you have updated the post. Including a link back to the original post will be extremely helpful. Including the link in your signature isn't enough because eventually you will change that link.:D
If you disagree with something then start an open dialogue & state your clear reasons. Again offering solutions is better than just poking holes & don't make it personal. Remember everyone has the right to a different opinion. Defending your position is good if done in this same manner.
Voting Stage.
Set a time frame you don't want to have it open for ever.
Carding Stage.
PM me (A3n) the completed design including the Faction & mini photo.
HAVE FUN!!!
& best of luck guys.

Cheers

Thank you so much for this, A3n. It is greatly appreciated.

I will be implementing everything from A3n's proposed Brianstorming Phase. The Draft Stage will need some variance though since we will only be running this in a single thread. I have no issue with the designer reposting an updated version when he posts.

Also, most likely the thread will slow down once the excitement wears off a bit. You'll always be more than welcome to participate, A3n!

[Hidicul]

Suggestions:

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
When Simon attacks, Undead figures must roll 2 less defense dice while defending. If the defending Undead figure has the Drain Life Special Power, it must roll 3 less defense dice.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Points: ???
I really like your modification to SENSE UNDEAD and VAMPIRE HUNTER.

[Balantai]

I really like your modification to SENSE UNDEAD and VAMPIRE HUNTER.
I'm trying to get a feel for what JC is trying to accomplish without abandoning his ideas. I hope he likes it, too.

I also renamed Reach to Whip and Undead Hunter to Vampire Hunter. I think those power names are more iconic to Simon.

[Balantai]

The first page has been updated with new Brainstorming rules.

[mac122]

Suggestions:

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
When Simon attacks, Undead figures must roll 2 less defense dice while defending. If the defending Undead figure has the Drain Life Special Power, it must roll 3 less defense dice.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Points: ???
I really like your modification to SENSE UNDEAD and VAMPIRE HUNTER.
Do we need to add to a minimum of 1 defense die to Vampire Hunter?

I assume we'll be implementing the new discussion rules with the next design?
Edit: Balantai is toooo fast: Also, will we be following the 1 post rule during the draft stage or will that be the more open format?

[Balantai]

[I assume we'll be implementing the new discussion rules with the next design?
Since we're already past that phase, I'm going to have to say yes. ;) Unless you can get me an inexpensive time machine.

[Balantai]

Do we need to add to a minimum of 1 defense die to Vampire Hunter?

I would say a minimum of zero defense dice, but let's see if JC likes the idea first.

[jcmcminis]

Suggestions:

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
When Simon attacks, Undead figures must roll 2 less defense dice while defending. If the defending Undead figure has the Drain Life Special Power, it must roll 3 less defense dice.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Points: ???

I like. :D

[SirGalahad]

Suggestions:

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon Belmont's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
When Simon attacks, Undead figures must roll 2 less fewer defense dice while defending against Simon Belmont. If the defending Undead figures with has the Life Drain Special Power , it must roll 3 less fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon Belmont is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Points: ???

Sounds good. Just wording suggestions

[jcmcminis]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon Belmont's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
Undead figures roll 2 fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont. [Undead figures with the Life Drain Special Power roll 3 fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon Belmont is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Ok I like this...very much now should we discuss point value?

[Taeblewalker]

I'm not crazy about losing three defense dice. Maybe make it 1 and 2. The rest is good.
I'd say about 100 points.

[Hrockle]

I think it should be 130 points, due to the high survivability. With 5 life, 4 defense and 4 attack, he should be able to run in and withstand long enough to kill his target within a couple turns.

[jcmcminis]

I'm not crazy about losing three defense dice. Maybe make it 1 and 2. The rest is good.
I'd say about 100 points.

Maybe we should just make it 2 in general and call it good?

[Lamaclown]

I'm not crazy about losing three defense dice. Maybe make it 1 and 2. The rest is good.
I'd say about 100 points.

Maybe we should just make it 2 in general and call it good?

I agree with that. WIth losing 3 dice, Cyprien is the only vamp who would be able to defend against Simon's attack. Sonya and Iskra only have 3 to start with and Marcu has 1.

I think 1 and 2 would be good although just a general 2 would be fine as well.

[jcmcminis]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon Belmont's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
Undead figures roll 2 fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon Belmont is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Points: 100

Looks good, what say the rest of you?

[Hidicul]

I'd say around 130

[dfonse]

I'd say around 130
That seems about right.

[SirGalahad]

Marcus has 1 more Life, a situational move synergy, and a situational attack synergy.

Simon has 1 more Attack and Defense, a small ranged attack, a situational movement bonus, and a situational enemy defense reduction.

I think the increased Attack and Defense outweigh Marcus' additional Life.

Probably 120-130.

[jcmcminis]

130 it is then.

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his height or 3 levels below his base, you may add 1 to Simon Belmont's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
Undead figures roll 2 fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon Belmont is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Point: 130

Mini pic: http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/631442

[Taeblewalker]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.

[Hidicul]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.
I'll have a better idea for points after I run the playtest on him, but I was thinking running him at 130 to start would be a good spot, butI could see trying him at 120.

[dfonse]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.

!20 is fitting and I dislike the 115 because so many time I draft Jotun and I do not have a 5 point filler.

[dfonse]

For whip make it so he can only attack the in range figure like he gains one range when attacking that figure.

[Balantai]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.

!20 is fitting and I dislike the 115 because so many time I draft Jotun and I do not have a 5 point filler.

You know how to fix that? Make more figures that end in 5 points. :D

[dfonse]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.

!20 is fitting and I dislike the 115 because so many time I draft Jotun and I do not have a 5 point filler.

You know how to fix that? Make more figures that end in 5 points. :D

But More requires More and I do not like More

[Lamaclown]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.

As long as TW is posting there isn't much need for me to post since it seems I am usually in agreement with what he says.

[Taeblewalker]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.

As long as TW is posting there isn't much need for me to post since it seems I am usually in agreement with what he says.

Ah, my own fan club. :lol:

[Lamaclown]

I like 2 dice. As for points, why not try something more like 115 or 120, and playtest it? Split the difference, as it were.

As long as TW is posting there isn't much need for me to post since it seems I am usually in agreement with what he says.

Ah, my own fan club. :lol:

What can I say? I blush in the presence of your greatness :lol:

[jcmcminis]

Did some playtesting today of Simon at 120 and 130...I think he played very well at 120.

[Hidicul]

Did some playtesting today of Simon at 120 and 130...I think he played very well at 120.
I'm just waiting on the OK, then I'll get some playtesting done on him. I was thinking of doing the tests at 120 and go from there.

[dfonse]

Playtested him at 120 and that seemed good

[wulfhunter667]

Playtested him at 120 and that seemed good
If you playtested him, where's the data? How many tests did you do? Was the testing in an army or against individuals of the same point cost? This post is no good without data...


And before any smart guys get the idea...
http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/49852545/1355696
Brent Spiner is not the Data I'm talking about. :razz:

[Hidicul]

Playtested him at 120 and that seemed good
If you playtested him, where's the data? How many tests did you do? Was the testing in an army or against individuals of the same point cost? This post is no good without data...


And before any smart guys get the idea...
http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/49852545/1355696
Brent Spiner is not the Data I'm talking about. :razz:

These playtests don't really count anyways since we haven't moved Simon to the playtesting phase. Once we do though we will need two more playtesters other then our LD.

[Balantai]

Look at all this excitement around playtesting. :D

Before we can do any official playtests, we need to JC to propose that Simon be moved to the Playtesting Phase. Then we can give our "thumbs up" / "thumbs down".

We should try to flush out the wording on the cards, before we give our thumbs up, though.

[jcmcminis]

I think he is ready to playtest as is at 120 points. I am going to the doctor today and there is a very slight chance I might go into the hospital for a few days, so please do your best for Simon. If I dont go in I will post later today.

[Balantai]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game
Jandar

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont and its base is no more than 3 levels above his Simon Belmont's height or 3 levels below his Simon Bilmont's base, you may add 1 to Simon Belmont's Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
Undead figures roll 2 fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont to a minimum of 0 defense dice.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, but before they take a turn with that figure or figures, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon Belmont is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Point: 120

Mini pic: http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/631442

[machinekng]

I think he wanted it to be Jandar.

[jcmcminis]

Yes I want him to fight for Jandar...which is what Blantai listed him as. Luckily no hospital for me just 10 wonderful days of antibiotics and staying off of my butt as much as possible as I have a large infection on there. Its quite literally a pain in the @$$. :P

[Balantai]

Anybody else have any suggested wording changes?

[machinekng]

I think the card is good.

It has my :thumbsup:.

[SirGalahad]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game
Jandar

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont, and its base is no more than 3 levels above Simon Belmont's height or 3 levels below Simon Belmont's base, Simon Belmont may add 1 to his Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
Undead figures roll 2 fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont to a minimum of 0 defense dice.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, but before they take a turn with that figure or figures, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon Belmont is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Point: 120

Mini pic: http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/631442

Why is the struck-through line necessay? "Immediately" means immediately after they reveal the OM on the Undead figure's card.

[Balantai]

Why is the struck-through line necessay? "Immediately" means immediately after they reveal the OM on the Undead figure's card.
I had added it for further clarification, but if you guys don't think it's necessary, I have no issue with removing it.

[mac122]

Why is the struck-through line necessay? "Immediately" means immediately after they reveal the OM on the Undead figure's card.
I had added it for further clarification, but if you guys don't think it's necessary, I have no issue with removing it.
I agree with SirG. It seems clear enough to me.
Simon looks good. I'll have to proxy some vampires to test him out when we get to that phase.

[Lamaclown]

The wording seems good. Concise, clear, and simple as possible. I'll be doing some proxying myself, and looking forward to it!

[Balantai]

Simon Belmont
Castlevania
Video Game
Jandar

Human
Unique Hero
Hunter
Valiant
Size: Medium 5

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

WHIP
If an opponent's figure is within 2 spaces of Simon Belmont, and its base is no more than 3 levels above Simon Belmont's height or 3 levels below Simon Belmont's base, Simon Belmont may add 1 to his Range when attacking that figure.

VAMPIRE HUNTER
Undead figures roll 2 fewer defense dice against Simon Belmont to a minimum of 0 defense dice.

SENSE UNDEAD
After your opponent reveals an Order Marker on an Undead figure's card, you may immediately move Simon Belmont up to 3 spaces. If Simon Belmont is engaged prior to moving, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Point: 120

Mini pic: http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/631442

[machinekng]

I like it.

:thumbsup:

[Hidicul]

:thumbsup: OK we need 2 more people to playtest him. I'll start tonight or tomorrow on mine.

[Hrockle]

I think he should be 130, but we'll let the playtesting see that.

:up:

[Balantai]

One more thumbs up will push it to playtesting.

[jcmcminis]

Well don't know if mine counts because It was me who started Simon but :thumbsup: anyway.

[mac122]

:thumbsup:
Here's mine. Nice work JC and all who commented.

[Balantai]

Great work, guys. And congratulations to JC to have the first figure pushed through the design phase. I will post my character choice, soon. I will also be creating a Playtesting thread.

EDIT: I created the Playtesting Thread. Once we get Simon through 2 or 3 playtest sheets, we can get him finalized.