TrekScape - Prime Directives - VOTE for Transporter

[SirGalahad]

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/TrekScape/starfleetsymbolsmall.png (http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/TrekScape/starfleetsymbolsmall.png[/IMG])TrekScape

Prime Directives


This will be the thread where we discuss optional rules, including Stun, Transporters, glyphs and anything else that needs to be addressed from a rules standpoint.

By posting here, you agree to abide by the rules of the Prime Directives thread:

1) Play nice. It's OK to disagree with someone, but do so intelligently. Personal attacks are not appropriate.

2) Think before you hit Submit. We are trying to add to an incredible existing game system. Remember that there are already attack and defense auras, adjacency bonuses, glyphs, etc. before coming up with more of the same.

3) All are welcome to contribute -- good ideas are everywhere. If there is something that you feel should be added, throw it out there so it can be discussed.

4) Have fun. Isn't that why we're here in the first place?

Related project threads:
TrekScape (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31096)
TrekScape Academy - BOOKS Of . . . (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31304)
TrekScape Art Academy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31326)
TrekScape Away Missions (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31298)

Current list of topics


Stun (latest update (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1149668&postcount=99))


Transporter (discussion starting here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1150917&postcount=103))


Tricorder


Glyph of Tribbles


Weapons Glyphs (phaser rifle, etc)

[SirGalahad]

Housekeeping Post if needed.

[wulfhunter667]

I don't see it shutting down many games. I know I have had them end when Red skull makes his Die-20 roll. Wamo game over first dice rolled. I have had my Death walker taken out with a lucky hit. At one less dice for attack and defence dice being rolled. I don,t see this as broken. Yea a lucky roll could end things but as anyone knows that could happen in any battle with only one or two army cards on a side.

I know Wulf, I just hate it when someone is immune to a power because he has no OM on him. In retrospect, That is probably not worth countering with counters and effects that last for multiple rounds.

Pete


If there is a stun ability on the card, perhaps falling damage could be awarded if the opponent's figure is next to a cliff or wall of some sort. Perhaps roll a dice and if a skull is rolled-a wound?


Is there "knock-back" on stun attacks? The above statement sounds like Knock-back to me.

Not knock-back as in when superheroes throw each other against walls at supersonic speeds. However, it stands to reason (according to the laws of physics) that if one were stunned next to edge of a hill or a hard wall, then said person could be injured by the momentum over the edge or into the wall. This could injure the figure, if only slightly.


Not knock-back as in when superheroes throw each other against walls at supersonic speeds. However, it stands to reason (according to the laws of physics) that if one were stunned next to edge of a hill or a hard wall, then said person could be injured by the momentum over the edge or into the wall. This could injure the figure, if only slightly.

The telling statement here is bolded. We are referring to a game.

Stunning, IMO, should be totally non-lethal. No chance of Ensign Ricky falling off a cliff and dying, he just crumples into a heap in the middle of the hex he is in.

The problem with removing an Order Marker is that you are removing one unrevealed OM at random. How thematic would it be for Chekov, on the first OM of the round, to stun a Klingon (who has OMs 1 and 3 on his card) and randomly remove OM 3, allowing the Klingon to take his normal turn on his own OM 1?


How about . . .

STUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack (this figure's attack number - 1).
If an opponent's Unique Hero receives at least one wound from the Stun Special Attack, place a Stun Marker on that hero's Army Card. Figures who are stunned roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. When an Order Marker is revealed on a stunned hero's card, the player controlling that hero must roll the 20-sided die. If the player rolls a 12 or higher, the Stun Marker is removed. All Stun Markers are removed from all Army Cards at the end of each round.

This also avoids having to worry about the ramifications of stunning individual members of a squad, since if they received at least one wound, they would be destroyed.

EDIT: GB said earlier that if you rolled combat dice, it was an attack (flagbearers excluded). Unless we want to make Stun a 20-sided die roll, it would have to be listed as a special attack, which I don't think you want to use a symbol for, since it's dependent upon the figure.

The problem with removing an Order Marker is that you are removing one unrevealed OM at random. How thematic would it be for Chekov, on the first OM of the round, to stun a Klingon (who has OMs 1 and 3 on his card) and randomly remove OM 3, allowing the Klingon to take his normal turn on his own OM 1?


How about . . .

STUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack (this figure's attack number - 1).
If an opponent's Unique Hero receives at least one wound from the Stun Special Attack, place a Stun Marker on that hero's Army Card. Figures who are stunned roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. When an Order Marker is revealed on a stunned hero's card, the player controlling that hero must roll the 20-sided die. If the player rolls a 12 or higher, the Stun Marker is removed. All Stun Markers are removed from all Army Cards at the end of each round.

This also avoids having to worry about the ramifications of stunning individual members of a squad, since if they received at least one wound, they would be destroyed.

EDIT: GB said earlier that if you rolled combat dice, it was an attack (flagbearers excluded). Unless we want to make Stun a 20-sided die roll, it would have to be listed as a special attack, which I don't think you want to use a symbol for, since it's dependent upon the figure.

Why is the stun attack "Dependent upon the figure" in a way that makes a Symbol on the card, like Super Strength, not work?

I like the way that works. How about Leaving the Marker on at the end of the round though? That way you could stun someone who dose not have an OM on them and it would stay until the person wants to "risk" an OM on them.

STUN is dependent upon the figure because of the different figures' attack values. The constant is that we've been talking about it rolling one fewer attack die than the figure's normal attack value.

Clearing the markers at the end of the round tones down the power some and makes thematic sense as well, because the stun eventually wears off on its own. The end of a round is a natural break in time to clear markers.

If a symbol is used, we would have to add a "rulebook" a la the C3G that fully explains the special attack.

my contention is that a regular (or special) attack would cause wounds and a stun attack wouldn't.

Then we could turn it into a 20-sided die special ability. I changed the text to "figures" so everyone would have something to look at if we still wanted it to affect individual squad figures.

STUN
After moving and instead of attacking, choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, place a Stun Marker on that figure. Figures who are stunned roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. When an Order Marker is revealed on a stunned figure's Army Card, the player controlling that figure must roll the 20-sided die. If the player rolls a 12 or higher, the Stun Marker is removed. All Stun Markers are removed from all figures at the end of each round.

Why could you not just state in the power "attacks with one fewer attack dice" That way it would work for every Fig as written. I suppose it would have the value of dropping there defence even if they don't have an OM so they would be essayer to hit, with other attacks.

We might want to add may not use any special abilities, to avoid any abilities that give automatic movement, Defences, or counter strikes from kicking in.

The main reason I would think to use a symbol is "length of text".


Special Power 1 - Grenade Special Attack
Range 5. Lob 12. Attack 2.
Use this power once per game. Start the game with a grenade marker on this card. Remove the grenade marker to throw grenades. One at a time do the following with each Airborne Elite: Choose a figure to attack. No clear line of sight is needed. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by the Grenade Special Attack. Roll 2 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Special Power 2 - The Drop
Airborne Elite do not start the game on the battlefield. At the start of each round, before you place Order Markers, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher you may place all 4 Airborne Elite figures on any empty spaces. You cannot place them adjacent to each other or other figures, or on glyphs


STUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack (this figure's attack number - 1).
If an opponent's Unique Hero receives at least one wound from the Stun Special Attack, place a Stun Marker on that hero's Army Card. Figures who are stunned roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. When an Order Marker is revealed on a stunned hero's card, the player controlling that hero must roll the 20-sided die. If the player rolls a 12 or higher, the Stun Marker is removed. All Stun Markers are removed from all Army Cards at the end of each round.


Above is all of the text for the airborne Elite. It is not jammed on the card no extra text and so forth.. It takes up 13 lines in this format. Stun Takes up 9, If this is something that will wind up on most federation cards and many other races do use this as well, it will take up too much card space IMO. I would rather loose the stun all together than have to drop specials like Spocks nerve pinch or Kirks flying double kick attack:lol: that give flavor to each character

Also, It is Modifying there attack one less die and a special if damage is done. So just like

WAIT THEN FIRE
If none of the 4th Massacususetts line move this turn, add 1 to their attack.

Is not a Special attack If we just say modification X to the base attack not only would we have universal text, allowing for a text space saving symbol, they would get any modifications due to hight or enhancements.









</IMG>



STUN
After moving and instead of attacking, choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, place a Stun Marker on that figure. Figures who are stunned roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. When an Order Marker is revealed on a stunned figure's Army Card, the player controlling that figure must roll the 20-sided die. If the player rolls a 12 or higher, the Stun Marker is removed. All Stun Markers are removed from all figures at the end of each round.


The problem here is that tougher figures get no extra bonus against stun from there higher Defense values.

I think the other version was much better with the thought I listed above, taken into consideration.

I'll be happy to tally feedback on these.

Given: If it rolls combat dice, it's an attack.

Questions to decide:

1. Should STUN be an ability or an attack?

2. If it's an ability (which it sounds like it shouldn't be because figures with higher defense would have no advantage in defending against it), what should the effective 20-sided die roll be?

3. If it's an attack
a) what should the attack modifier be (currently suggested at -1)
b) what do unblocked skulls mean?
i) inflict wounds (seems pointless - just use regular attack)
ii) STUN only (whatever the effects are - see 7 below)
iii) both (eliminates 5c below)
4. Who can use STUN?
a) heroes only?
b) squads also? Squads usually only have a special attack if they combine their attacks (Ashigaru Yari, Roman Archers, Zombies)
5. Who can be affected by STUN?
a) size restrictions?
b) heroes only?
c) squads also? Are unSTUNned squad members affected?
6. How will STUNned figures be designated?
a) marker on Army Card?
b) marker on figure?
c) lay figure on its side?
7. What is the effect of STUN?
a) remove OM (issue if not the next OM)
b) reduced defense dice (currently suggested at -2)
c) no move or attack
d) combination of above
8. How does a figure become unSTUNned?
a) 20-sided die roll every OM? What roll?
b) 20-sided die roll every OM for that player? What roll?
c) 20-sided die roll every OM for that Army Card? What roll?
d) end of round
9. How do we document STUN?
a) on each Army Card with text?
b) on each Army Card with symbol and accompanying "rulebook"?

I think it's a great thematic element that can be added to the game, but because it is so new (like Knockback Rules in C3G) we just have to be careful and get these questions answered.

We could just make it an optional rule set, using a symbol to designate those figures who can use it.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

Good sorting on the options Galahad. The only thing is, there are plenty of official abilities that modify an attack that are not a special attack. You still roll attack dice.

Wait then fire

Sword of Reckoning 4

Unleashed Fury

All Enhancements to attack.

Thats just what I have here on the desk to check wording for some other customs I am working on.

I find this important for a few reasons.

Many special abilities for defence work only against special or non special attacks.

There will be no bonuses from any other enhancements or hight when stunning, if it is a special attack. I really see Kirk giving a bonus to attack for his redshirts, for example

I am seeing a likely future for these cards where you have a base attack of say 4 with range 5. This simulates a Phaser 1. Then if you want to arm them with a Phaser 3 (the rifle) you pay your call it 30 points and get and attack of 6 range 7 {totaly pulling numbers out of my dingus here} If we have Stun as a special attack then it would always use the base numbers. If it is an attack modifier which it would be if it has a
- 1 attack dice with special effects of removed OM and or an inability to take actions or lower defence, whatever.

Then whatever else bumps up the attack number will be aplied before you take away the one die.

Given: If it rolls combat dice, it's an attack.

Questions to decide:

1. Should STUN be an ability or an attack? one that modifies your attack.

2. If it's an ability (which it sounds like it shouldn't be because figures with higher defense would have no advantage in defending against it), what should the effective 20-sided die roll be?

3. If it's an attack
a) what should the attack modifier be (currently suggested at -1) -1
b) what do unblocked skulls mean?
i) inflict wounds (seems pointless - just use regular attack)
ii) STUN only (whatever the effects are - see 7 below)
iii) both (eliminates 5c below)
4. Who can use STUN?
a) heroes only?
b) squads also? Squads usually only have a special attack if they combine their attacks (Ashigaru Yari, Roman Archers, Zombies) I would need to check the cards but taking your word for it why would not a modified attack like Wait then fire be usable split up on different targets by the squad?
5. Who can be affected by STUN?
a) size restrictions?
b) heroes only?
c) squads also? Are unSTUNned squad members affected?
all medium sized figures, only the targeted Figure is affected not the whole card. but seeing as how I like the if any damage is done option the Squad member would be destroyed anyway.
6. How will STUNned figures be designated?
a) marker on Army Card?
b) marker on figure?
c) lay figure on its side?
I think both to avoid confusion
7. What is the effect of STUN?
a) remove OM (issue if not the next OM)
b) reduced defense dice (currently suggested at -2)
c) no move or attack
d) combination of above
8. How does a figure become unSTUNned?
a) 20-sided die roll every OM? What roll?
b) 20-sided die roll every OM for that player? What roll?
c) 20-sided die roll every OM for that Army Card? What roll? 12 or better would work for me. the more common the check the higher it should go.
d) end of round
9. How do we document STUN?
a) on each Army Card with text?
b) on each Army Card with symbol and accompanying "rulebook"? If we only have one or two of these the Book would be kind of small. But yea.

I think it's a great thematic element that can be added to the game, but because it is so new (like Knockback Rules in C3G) we just have to be careful and get these questions answered. That is for sure.

We could just make it an optional rule set, using a symbol to designate those figures who can use it. I like this most of the Knockback and such are treated as Optional.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg
</IMG>

I'll be happy to tally feedback on these.

Given: If it rolls combat dice, it's an attack.

Questions to decide:

1. Should STUN be an ability or an attack?

2. If it's an ability (which it sounds like it shouldn't be because figures with higher defense would have no advantage in defending against it), what should the effective 20-sided die roll be?

3. If it's an attack
a) what should the attack modifier be (currently suggested at -1)
b) what do unblocked skulls mean?
i) inflict wounds (seems pointless - just use regular attack)
ii) STUN only (whatever the effects are - see 7 below)
iii) both (eliminates 5c below)
4. Who can use STUN?
a) heroes only?
b) squads also? Squads usually only have a special attack if they combine their attacks (Ashigaru Yari, Roman Archers, Zombies)
5. Who can be affected by STUN?
a) size restrictions?
b) heroes only?
c) squads also? Are unSTUNned squad members affected? no
6. How will STUNned figures be designated?
a) marker on Army Card?
b) marker on figure?
c) lay figure on its side?
7. What is the effect of STUN?
a) remove OM (issue if not the next OM)
b) reduced defense dice (currently suggested at -2)
c) no move or attack
d) combination of above
8. How does a figure become unSTUNned?
a) 20-sided die roll every OM? What roll?
b) 20-sided die roll every OM for that player? What roll?
c) 20-sided die roll every OM for that Army Card? What roll?
d) end of round
9. How do we document STUN?
a) on each Army Card with text?
b) on each Army Card with symbol and accompanying "rulebook"?

I think it's a great thematic element that can be added to the game, but because it is so new (like Knockback Rules in C3G) we just have to be careful and get these questions answered.

We could just make it an optional rule set, using a symbol to designate those figures who can use it.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

My opinions are bolded.

Here's my thoughts on the Stun questions (thanks for taking the initiative SirG):



1. Should STUN be an ability or an attack? Special Attack. We can adjust the range and attack values for different weapons used.

2. If it's an ability (which it sounds like it shouldn't be because figures with higher defense would have no advantage in defending against it), what should the effective 20-sided die roll be?

3. If it's an attack
a) what should the attack modifier be (currently suggested at -1) That works for me.
b) what do unblocked skulls mean?
i) inflict wounds (seems pointless - just use regular attack)
ii) STUN only (whatever the effects are - see 7 below)
iii) both (eliminates 5c below) Stun only. I don't think we should allow wounds from Stun or penalize an entire squad with one stunned figure. Just make it against heroes only. You'd probably use an unmodified regular attack and eliminate a squad figure instead.

4. Who can use STUN?
a) heroes only?
b) squads also? Squads usually only have a special attack if they combine their attacks (Ashigaru Yari, Roman Archers, Zombies)
I'd like to see both. I can picture Red-shirts being ordered to set phasers to stun.

5. Who can be affected by STUN?
a) size restrictions?
b) heroes only?
c) squads also? Are unSTUNned squad members affected?
Small and Medium only. Heroes only. No squads - sorry, they must die instead - nothing personal squaddies.
6. How will STUNned figures be designated?
a) marker on Army Card?
b) marker on figure?
c) lay figure on its side?
7. What is the effect of STUN?
a) remove OM (issue if not the next OM)
b) reduced defense dice (currently suggested at -2)
c) no move or attack
d) combination of above
7 and 8 together:
Stun marker stays on army card until the end of the round or until an OM is revealed on the affected figure's card. When an OM is revealed for a Stunned figure, roll a d20.
-On X, turn ends
-On Y, figure moves one less space and rolls one less attack and defense die for remainder of turn.
-On Z, remove Stun marker and take a normal turn.
If no OM on the card, Stunned figure still rolls one less defense die when attacked.

8. How does a figure become unSTUNned? See answer to #7.
a) 20-sided die roll every OM? What roll?
b) 20-sided die roll every OM for that player? What roll?
c) 20-sided die roll every OM for that Army Card? What roll?
d) end of round
D20 roll each time an order marker revealed.
9. How do we document STUN?
a) on each Army Card with text?
b) on each Army Card with symbol and accompanying "rulebook"? Optional rules.

I think it's a great thematic element that can be added to the game, but because it is so new (like Knockback Rules in C3G) we just have to be careful and get these questions answered.

We could just make it an optional rule set, using a symbol to designate those figures who can use it.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

Any other additions or subtractions needed for the TNG list? If not, then we can decide how we want to handle factions. Things like Federation or Starfleet and whether each alien species will be its own faction or if we'll lump the lesser-used factions together in a Star Wars-like Fringe faction. After that, it's a (hopefully) quick discussion on tech then I think we'll be ready to start design! IMO, we can continue to work on the template as we go along - don't think we have to have it finalized before the design discussion starts.

I'll be happy to tally feedback on these.

Given: If it rolls combat dice, it's an attack.

Questions to decide:

1. Should STUN be an ability or an attack? Attack

2. If it's an ability (which it sounds like it shouldn't be because figures with higher defense would have no advantage in defending against it), what should the effective 20-sided die roll be? n/a

3. If it's an attack
a) what should the attack modifier be (currently suggested at -1):thumbsup:
b) what do unblocked skulls mean?
i) inflict wounds (seems pointless - just use regular attack)
ii) STUN only (whatever the effects are - see 7 below):thumbsup:
iii) both (eliminates 5c below)
4. Who can use STUN?
a) heroes only?:thumbsup:
b) squads also? Squads usually only have a special attack if they combine their attacks (Ashigaru Yari, Roman Archers, Zombies)
5. Who can be affected by STUN?
a) size restrictions?
b) heroes only?
c) squads also? Are unSTUNned squad members affected?Everyone.
6. How will STUNned figures be designated?
a) marker on Army Card?
b) marker on figure?
c) lay figure on its side? None of these. I'm still in favor of OM removal which does not require markers.
7. What is the effect of STUN?
a) remove OM (issue if not the next OM):thumbsup:
b) reduced defense dice (currently suggested at -2)
c) no move or attack
d) combination of above Still think STUN would be best used as a strategic way to stop figures from activating.
8. How does a figure become unSTUNned?
a) 20-sided die roll every OM? What roll?
b) 20-sided die roll every OM for that player? What roll?
c) 20-sided die roll every OM for that Army Card? What roll?
d) end of round n/a
9. How do we document STUN?
a) on each Army Card with text?
b) on each Army Card with symbol and accompanying "rulebook"?:thumbsup:

I think it's a great thematic element that can be added to the game, but because it is so new (like Knockback Rules in C3G) we just have to be careful and get these questions answered.

We could just make it an optional rule set, using a symbol to designate those figures who can use it.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg
Again, I am violently opposed to markers on cards unless absolutely necessary. But, I'll go with whatever the group wants.
Neat Stun symbol concept, btw. ;)
This is absolutely everything I found about stun from the main thread from about page 5 to around page 22. It's aloooooooot to read through, but it will definately be easier than trying to muddle through the original thread for this stuff.

[SirGalahad]

Thanks wulf.

[mac122]

I'd like to make it an ability that modifies the attack, but I think there's too much going on with Stun. If it were just add or subtract an attack die, it would work. But we're messing with order markers, too. IMO, it needs to be a special attack.
Refresh my memory, was Stun TrekScape-only or was it going to be classic-compatible? If TrekScape-only, we can write it however we want.

[SirGalahad]

Here's the discussion so far regarding Transporters:

Beam in as an ability could be a version of the AE's drop. Though I'm leaning toward having a transport ability on an engineer or having a transporter DO that would let you beam figures all over the map.

I don't know about beaming into or out of battles. I was thinking that these battles would be after figures had already been beamed into the areas.

Tying beaming to a class like "Engineer" would mean that every other race that had transporter technology would have to have an Engineer as well, and I don't know if that's wise.

If there were a Glyph of Transporter Technology, maybe controlling it allows you to move a figure back to your start zone once per game.

Finally, an interesting thought ran across my mind about the tech thing. What if we have Engineers with Transporter ability to remove squads from play and the Communications Officer having the ability to return them to play elsewhere on the battlefield? Creates an interesting synergy between the two types of customs and sounds like it might be fun to play.
That's all I got for now.

[mac122]

Here's the discussion so far regarding Transporters:

Beam in as an ability could be a version of the AE's drop. Though I'm leaning toward having a transport ability on an engineer or having a transporter DO that would let you beam figures all over the map.

I don't know about beaming into or out of battles. I was thinking that these battles would be after figures had already been beamed into the areas.

Tying beaming to a class like "Engineer" would mean that every other race that had transporter technology would have to have an Engineer as well, and I don't know if that's wise.

If there were a Glyph of Transporter Technology, maybe controlling it allows you to move a figure back to your start zone once per game.

Finally, an interesting thought ran across my mind about the tech thing. What if we have Engineers with Transporter ability to remove squads from play and the Communications Officer having the ability to return them to play elsewhere on the battlefield? Creates an interesting synergy between the two types of customs and sounds like it might be fun to play.
That's all I got for now.
Transporters as a permanent glyph would probably be the way to go.

Transporter Permanent Glyph
After revealing an order marker, a figure on a Transporter Glyph may be placed on any space within X clear sight spaces. If the figure is an Engineer, you may instead choose any other small or medium figure you control and move them up to X spaces. If the moved figure is engaged before Transport they will not take any leaving engagement strikes.

[Felindar]

I'd like to make it an ability that modifies the attack, but I think there's too much going on with Stun. If it were just add or subtract an attack die, it would work. But we're messing with order markers, too. IMO, it needs to be a special attack.
Refresh my memory, was Stun TrekScape-only or was it going to be classic-compatible? If TrekScape-only, we can write it however we want.

I don't think we decided. I like the Modified attack, with the Die-20 roll to get de stunned.

If any damage is done. Figure hit takes one wound {kills Squaddies}, and Looses 2? defence dice, can not attack or move until rolling X on a die-20. Rolls occur when an OM is reveled on the card. They all come up at the end of the round.

I think it can be compatable with Regular scape but we were planing on having the Symbols be Trek only.

[SirGalahad]

I'd like to make it an ability that modifies the attack, but I think there's too much going on with Stun. If it were just add or subtract an attack die, it would work. But we're messing with order markers, too. IMO, it needs to be a special attack.
Refresh my memory, was Stun TrekScape-only or was it going to be classic-compatible? If TrekScape-only, we can write it however we want.

It was my understanding that Goal Number 1 was to be 100% compatible with all existing Heroscape, which is why we'd have to be very careful about how it is written.

So far, wulf is the only one who is advcoating OM removal.

If Stun is just an attack modifier (-1), then all other attack modifiers are also in play (Astrid, Crevcor, Ulaniva, height, Taelord, any built-in synergies). If that's what the group wants, I can live with it, but these are things that need to be thought about.

Also, now that I'm thinking specifically about just one thing (like that ever happens), figures should be able to leave engagement with Stunned figures without taking any leaving engagement attacks.

And the markers really aren't necessary -- you could just lay the figure on its side -- although I know at least one family does that to represent destroyed figures.

[mac122]

That's my second :duh: of the day! I forgot the other options we looked at...and only sorta scanned through the posts...:oops: The really sad part is for SirG's tally sheet on Stun, I didn't say OM removal.

If Stun is just an attack modifier of -1 then it's just an ability like Wait Then Fire. But it goes beyond that either with a paralysis effect, a temporary reduction in stats for the affected figure, OM removal...It almost has to be a Special Attack. We can write any of these effects as a compatible ability. We could include an optional TrekScape rule that allows for height modifiers if we choose to, as well.

[SirGalahad]

If the TrekScape ruleset is OPTIONAL, we can make it whatever we want, as long as it's otherwise compatible.

Knockback for example involves calculating knockback points and comparing skulls of the defending figure, so Stun can be a little involved. People will have to decide whether or not it is worth the extra effort to use it.

I'm OK with it being an attack modifier, just not OK with OM removal. If people are concerned that the figure can get unstunned too easily, we can just bump the 20-sided die roll up from 12 to make it harder for them to do so.

[SirGalahad]

Just a rough draft, obviously, let me know what you think

STUN

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

If the defending figure receives at least one wound, and the figure is not destroyed, the defending figure is now stunned. {Place a Stun Marker on this figure's Army Card or place the figure horizontally on its space}(TBD)

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. Figures leaving engagement from stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer affected by Stun.

{All Stun Markers are removed or all figures are placed upright at the end of each round}(TBD)

Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan received 1 wound and was not destroyed, Khan is now Stunned.

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who attacks Khan

Spock rolls :skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and takes another wound.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned.

Additional examples would be included

[mac122]

I like it. It's simpler than I originally wanted, but that's probably a good thing. It would definitely push you to try Stun with your first OM to get the maximum benefit.
If the Red Shirts have Stun, and I think they should, it would potentially make the 2nd and 3rd (4th?) figures potentially much more deadly.

[SirGalahad]

I deliberately left OM1 out of the example so people would figure that out for themselves.;)

Are you going to link each of these specialized threads to the OP of the main thread?

[mac122]

Are you going to link each of these specialized threads to the OP of the main thread?
Yes, I'll add the links...meant to do it already. Bad mac! Bad! Bad!

[Felindar]

I like it. It takes into account the toughness of the stunie. It lets bonuses for hight and so forth. It gives you an advantage in stunning nonordermarkered people.

Just a little more stuff.

Clarify if it is considered a Special attack {after numbers are figured out} or a regular attack. This matters for many defensive special abilities. I don't really think it matters, but we have to pick.

Stunned people should not be able to use Special abilities that Grant defence or movement. I can't see Spidy swinglining away from an attack, then landing some ware else still stunned. I know some of the special abilities out there would thematically still work but I see a full sweep as having fewer WTF moments.

[mac122]

Are you going to link each of these specialized threads to the OP of the main thread?
Yes, I'll add the links...meant to do it already. Bad mac! Bad! Bad!
Fixed!

[dfonse]

Stunning should be

Roll the 20 sided die if you roll a 6-12 place 1 stun marker (a special wound marker?) on that heroes card or an a squads base. If you get 13-19 put 2 and 20 3. A stun marker means that that figure is stunned for 1 round. it can not be moved by free will and it can not attack or use special abilities. Stunned figures may have order markers an them but still can not do any thing. You can not only have stunned figures. If so that player loses. Stunned figures lose 2 defence.

[SirGalahad]

Just a rough draft, obviously, let me know what you think

STUN

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

NOTE: Stun is NOT a special attack.

If the defending figure receives at least one wound, and the figure is not destroyed, the defending figure is now stunned. {Place a Stun Marker on this figure's Army Card or place the figure horizontally on its space}(TBD)

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities. Figures leaving engagement with stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer affected by Stun.

{All Stun Markers are removed or all figures are placed upright at the end of each round}(TBD)

Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan received 1 wound and was not destroyed, Khan is now Stunned.
{A Stun Marker is placed on Khan's Army Card or Khan is placed horizontally on his space}(TBD)

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who attacks Khan

Spock rolls :skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and takes another wound.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned.
{Khan's Stun Marker is removed or Khan is placed upright}(TBD)

Additional examples would be included

Hope the added bolded lines help.

[Felindar]

Thanks, for just a second I thought I somehow missed those in the first post. Do we put this up for a vote or do we have some kind of playtest phase. I guess I could take a couple of standard HS figures and give them Stun {Set for Stun} If we go the Quote route, and see how it works.

[SirGalahad]

There have been a lot of views, but not so many responses. Is it polished enough to vote on already (excepting the examples)? Plus we still have to decide how to designate Stunned figures. I know we haven't heard from everybody yet.

Trying to think ahead -- do we need a clause in there about Stun not being used in conjunction with any other special ability that would cause a reduction of defense dice?

[Felindar]

I think that how to designate is moot now. I vote for tipping over, and a marker on the card. Squaddies will be dead from the one damage requirement so we can play around with it either way. I just want to make sure it is not a total gamechanger. What would you think ballpark as a cost. I want to try stunners vs. non stunners. as well as everyone has it.

[dfonse]

I think that how to designate is moot now. I vote for tipping over, and a marker on the card. Squaddies will be dead from the one damage requirement so we can play around with it either way. I just want to make sure it is not a total game changer. What would you think ballpark as a cost. I want to try stunners vs. non stunners. as well as everyone has it.

I dislike the killing of squadies because stunning is to not kill.

[SirGalahad]

We talked about only stunning squad figures, but then there are issues with designating which figures on a card are and are not stunned.

Plus, why would anyone want to give their opponent's squad figures the opportunity to come back at full strength?

Other questions:

If we ever design a figure with a double attack and the Stun special power, can the first attack be Set for Stun and the second attack just be a normal attack?
(Might be easiest to just avoid the combination altogether).

If we have a Phaser Rifle Equipment Glyph (+2 non-adjacent attack?), would Stun work the same way as written?

[Felindar]

We were running into two problems. One If you stun a squaddie and not his fellows, what happens to the rest of the squad? Also, if we use a Die-20 roll then there is no difference in the difficulty in stunning someone with a defence of 2 or one of 7.

Also, don't forget week or injured persons were killed by stun in the series. Normally followed by someone looking wide eyed at another crew member and saying but I set for stun. One occasion had two conspirators silenced {Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country} By stunning them with the Phaser pressed right up against there head. Lastly, part of the idea is to simulate the damage from collapsing to the ground or getting pushed back by the blast {only sometimes seen, it seems to be for dramatic effect}.

[SirGalahad]

What would you think ballpark as a cost. I want to try stunners vs. non stunners. as well as everyone has it.

Since it's going to be fairly prevalent among many of our figures, I wouldn't cost it more than say 10 points, 20 at the very highest. People might not be willing very often to roll fewer attack dice for the possibility of having their opponents roll fewer defense dice on their next turn.

Also, if we have any bonding units that have Stun, we will have to up their cost to allow for the tactical advantage of the first unit stunning the figure, and then the remaining figure(s) attacking the same figure, who now has reduced defense.

But if you're willing to try it out, please post the results, so we can all see how it is or isn't working.

[wulfhunter667]

Ok, so here's my problem. I dislike the fact that Stun has to cause damage to work. Thematically, the whole reason for using the stun setting is so as not to kill your opponent. What I would like to see is a version of Stun that does not damage, but has the effects listed above. Maybe have a d20 roll with 12 or higher for squad figs and 17 or higher for uncommons and uniques. Additionally, I would like to see something written into the rules stating that you may move through an opponent's stunned figure's space without penalty, just for clarification purposes.
So you can understand the effect I am going for here, imagine, if you will, a glyph of Stun Grenade, used against a squad of Red Shirts blocking your easy access path to the badly wounded Captain Kirk and ultimate victory. You lob the grenade, stunning the Red Shirts and scoot right on through the incapacitated squad boys and in for the kill. Yay! You win.

[mac122]

My question is why in most, if not all Heroscape games would you not go ahead and destroy the squad figure? It makes sense to try to stun a hero so you can hit him harder next turn or with the rest of your squad mates. If I have the choice of rolling a full-strength attack against a squad figure or common hero to knock him out of the game or an attack-1 to stun him, why would I? I understand a stun grenade would be a different thing, being able to incapacitate a group of enemies can be very helpful.

I could see a special rule to stun squaddies and common heroes in a scenario where Starfleet wants you to recover some artifact or piece of equipment but doesn't want you to kill anyone. I just don't see anyone wanting to do it in a regular game.

[wulfhunter667]

My question is why in most, if not all Heroscape games would you not go ahead and destroy the squad figure? It makes sense to try to stun a hero so you can hit him harder next turn or with the rest of your squad mates. If I have the choice of rolling a full-strength attack against a squad figure or common hero to knock him out of the game or an attack-1 to stun him, why would I? I understand a stun grenade would be a different thing, being able to incapacitate a group of enemies can be very helpful.

I could see a special rule to stun squaddies and common heroes in a scenario where Starfleet wants you to recover some artifact or piece of equipment but doesn't want you to kill anyone. I just don't see anyone wanting to do it in a regular game.
By that same token though, I don't see any of the Trekscape figures having any kind of Disengage/Ghost Walk/Phantom Walk type abilities either. Movement past an enemy without taking leaving engagements can be huge in this game. So, you stun the guy in front of you and move right on past to the figure that is the real threat on the battlefield.

[mac122]

My question is why in most, if not all Heroscape games would you not go ahead and destroy the squad figure? It makes sense to try to stun a hero so you can hit him harder next turn or with the rest of your squad mates. If I have the choice of rolling a full-strength attack against a squad figure or common hero to knock him out of the game or an attack-1 to stun him, why would I? I understand a stun grenade would be a different thing, being able to incapacitate a group of enemies can be very helpful.

I could see a special rule to stun squaddies and common heroes in a scenario where Starfleet wants you to recover some artifact or piece of equipment but doesn't want you to kill anyone. I just don't see anyone wanting to do it in a regular game.
By that same token though, I don't see any of the Trekscape figures having any kind of Disengage/Ghost Walk/Phantom Walk type abilities either. Movement past an enemy without taking leaving engagements can be huge in this game. So, you stun the guy in front of you and move right on past to the figure that is the real threat on the battlefield.
Against unique or uncommon heroes, I totally agree. Against squads or common heroes, unless it was part of a scenario, I'm going to roll the extra die and go for the kill. I have less chance of stunning him and then I have to face him again when he wakes up.

[Boodog]

My solution would be to allow stun to operate off of a d-20 roll instead of a normal attack roll. That avoids conflicts with other attack/defense dice modifiers.

Also, might there be some stipulation about Stun not affecting Android or Soulborg figures?

[wulfhunter667]

How's about we have a good old-fashioned vote from the current roster of Commmanders and Lt Commanders whether we should have Stun do damage as currently worded or use a d20 to incapacitate individual figures?

[mac122]

My solution would be to allow stun to operate off of a d-20 roll instead of a normal attack roll. That avoids conflicts with other attack/defense dice modifiers.

Also, might there be some stipulation about Stun not affecting Android or Soulborg figures?
I think we allow Stun to work on them as well. I could see it temporarily overloading their electronic systems. Borg (and Zombies in classic) might be immune.

A vote would be fine. The attack dice version is pretty well fleshed out. Let's see what the d20 version would look like first. Any ideas?

[wulfhunter667]

A vote would be fine. The attack dice version is pretty well fleshed out. Let's see what the d20 version would look like first. Any ideas?


STUN
After moving and instead of attacking, choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher for a squad figure or 15 or higher for a Unique figure, place a Stun Marker on that figure that figure in the Stunned Position. Figures who are stunned roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. When an Order Marker is revealed on a stunned figure's Army Card, the player controlling that figure must roll the 20-sided die. If the player rolls a 12 or higher, the Stun Marker is removedthe figure is no longer stunned and you may take a turn with it. All Stun Markers are removed from all figures resume normal play at the end of each round.
This is SirG's original post, with a little spicing from me. ;) The Stunned Position would be laying the figure on its side. Resume normal play refers to setting the figure upright again. Might need a wording change, but this is more so you understand what I mean than the aesthetic part of wordsmithing in HS. This would be a Trekscape version only, obviously, as Stunned Position would have to be defined in the rulesbook.

[mac122]

A vote would be fine. The attack dice version is pretty well fleshed out. Let's see what the d20 version would look like first. Any ideas?


STUN
After moving and instead of attacking, choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher for a squad figure or 15 or higher for a Unique figure, place a Stun Marker on that figure that figure in the Stunned Position. Figures who are stunned roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move or attack. When an Order Marker is revealed on a stunned figure's Army Card, the player controlling that figure must roll the 20-sided die. If the player rolls a 12 or higher, the Stun Marker is removedthe figure is no longer stunned and you may take a turn with it. All Stun Markers are removed from all figures resume normal play at the end of each round.
This is SirG's original post, with a little spicing from me. ;) The Stunned Position would be laying the figure on its side. Resume normal play refers to setting the figure upright again. Might need a wording change, but this is more so you understand what I mean than the aesthetic part of wordsmithing in HS. This would be a Trekscape version only, obviously, as Stunned Position would have to be defined in the rulesbook.
That's a good start. An issue that was brought up earlier was a d20 doesn't take into account the relative toughness of a figure. An Augment squaddie would probably be tougher to stun than a Red shirt. Khan would be tougher than McCoy. The attack die version handles this. If the damage component was removed from the attack die version and the "stunned position" wording added, would that solve the issues? You could still stun a squaddie if you wanted to (I'd still kill 'em, though :twisted:).
The wording needs some work. Since this will be represented by a symbol with an explanation in the rulebook, we can be wordy if necessary to explain it. Plus, SirG's examples are extremely helpful.
STUN
When making a normal attack, you may instead choose to roll 1 less attack die and use Stun. If this attack would cause any wounds, ignore them and instead place the affected figure in the Stunned position. Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense die to a minimum of 1, and may not move, attack, or use any Special Ability. When an order marker is revealed on a Stunned figure, that figure's controller rolls a 20-sided die. On a roll of 1-X, the figure's turn ends immediately. On a roll of Y-20, the figure is no longer Stunned and is placed in the upright position.

[Felindar]

I could certainly see the ignore the damage part. but I would like to see the attack dice stay. If we go with the die-20 roll we wind up with a really powerful way to ignore how tough a character is.


When making a normal attack, you may instead choose to roll 1 less attack die and use Stun. If this attack would cause any wounds, ignore them and instead place the affected figure in the Stunned position. Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense die to a minimum of 1, and may not move, attack, or use any Special Ability. When an order marker is revealed on a Stunned figure, that figure's controller rolls a 20-sided die. On a roll of 1-X, the figure's turn ends immediately. On a roll of Y-20, the figure is no longer Stunned and is placed in the upright position.

This one works for me, as a way to remove the damage controversy.

[SirGalahad]

With the recommended alterations

STUN v2.0

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

NOTE: Stun is NOT a special attack.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

If the defending figure would receive at least one wound, ignore all wounds, and place the figure in Stunned Position (horizontally on its space).

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

Figures may move through stunned figures. Figures leaving engagement with stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer affected by Stun.

At the end of each round Stun wears off and each previously Stunned figure is placed in Upright Position (vertically on its space).

Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan would have received 1 wound and was not destroyed, Khan is now Stunned and is placed in Stunned Position.

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who can move through the stunned Khan to gain height advantage, and attacks Khan him.

Spock rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and takes another receives 2 wounds.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned and is placed in Upright Position.

Additional examples would be included

[dfonse]

With the recommended alterations

STUN v2.0

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

NOTE: Stun is NOT a special attack.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

If the defending figure would receive at least one wound, ignore all wounds, and place the figure in Stunned Position (horizontally on its space).

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

Figures may move through stunned figures. Figures leaving engagement with stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer affected by Stun.

At the end of each round Stun wears off and each previously Stunned figure is placed in Upright Position (vertically on its space).

Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan would have received 1 wound and was not destroyed, Khan is now Stunned and is placed in Stunned Position.

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who can move through the stunned Khan to gain height advantage, and attacks Khan him.

Spock rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and takes another receives 2 wounds.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned and is placed in Upright Position.

Additional examples would be included


Can stun kill? It should not be able to even wound.

[SirGalahad]

If the defending figure would receive at least one wound, ignore all wounds, and place the figure in Stunned Position (horizontally on its space).


Can stun kill? It should not be able to even wound.

No, in this version, but figures may be attacked while they are stunned and take wounds.

[SirGalahad]

I foresee a problem with indicating a Stunned figure on a ladder rung.

We may be back to Stun Markers.

[dfonse]

I foresee a problem with indicating a Stunned figure on a ladder rung.

We may be back to Stun Markers.

A stunned figure would not be able to grasp so they fall to the bottom and will take falling.

[Felindar]

I must admit he has a point there.

[mac122]

I foresee a problem with indicating a Stunned figure on a ladder rung.

We may be back to Stun Markers.

A stunned figure would not be able to grasp so they fall to the bottom and will take falling.
Yeah, if I were climbing a ladder and got hit with a Stun, I'd fall off. Place the figure on its side at the bottom of the ladder. If they fall far enough, they take falling damage. The tricky part will be if another figure is on the ladder or occupying the space below. The easy solution (though not as realistic) would be to have the stunned figure fall "around" the other figure. If someone is on the ladder below, the stunned figure is still placed at the bottom. If someone is in the space at the base of the ladder, the stunned figure is placed adjacent. Otherwise, we'd have to have falling figure damage for the unlucky guy below.

[dfonse]

I foresee a problem with indicating a Stunned figure on a ladder rung.

We may be back to Stun Markers.

A stunned figure would not be able to grasp so they fall to the bottom and will take falling.
Yeah, if I were climbing a ladder and got hit with a Stun, I'd fall off. Place the figure on its side at the bottom of the ladder. If they fall far enough, they take falling damage. The tricky part will be if another figure is on the ladder or occupying the space below. The easy solution (though not as realistic) would be to have the stunned figure fall "around" the other figure. If someone is on the ladder below, the stunned figure is still placed at the bottom. If someone is in the space at the base of the ladder, the stunned figure is placed adjacent. Otherwise, we'd have to have falling figure damage for the unlucky guy below.
The below figure takes a wound and is pushed to an adjacent square if not possible the figre will either die or the stunned figure will be moved I.E. the figure is large or huge and displaces the stunned figure.

[Felindar]

Aren't there rules for that in the falling damage rules in the rulebook.

Pete

[SirGalahad]

But what if there are no spaces available adjacent to the space at the base of the ladder?

Imagine a ladder with walls (W) on left and right (think half-enclosed Jeffries Tube) with a figure (1) at the base of the ladder and figures (2 and 3) occupying the only spaces adjacent to (1). A Stunned figure falls from the ladder. Now what?

W-W-W-W
-W-1-W-
W-2-3-W

[dfonse]

But what if there are no spaces available adjacent to the space at the base of the ladder?

Imagine a ladder with walls (W) on left and right (think half-enclosed Jeffries Tube) with a figure (1) at the base of the ladder and figures (2 and 3) occupying the only spaces adjacent to (1). A Stunned figure falls from the ladder. Now what?

W-W-W-W
-W-1-W-
W-2-3-W

Just continue displacing people 2 or 3 would not take damage though.

[mac122]

But what if there are no spaces available adjacent to the space at the base of the ladder?

Imagine a ladder with walls (W) on left and right (think half-enclosed Jeffries Tube) with a figure (1) at the base of the ladder and figures (2 and 3) occupying the only spaces adjacent to (1). A Stunned figure falls from the ladder. Now what?

W-W-W-W
-W-1-W-
W-2-3-W
Argh! I'd like to say what dfonse said and just move 2 and 3 another space. But then what if 4, 5, and 6 are standing next to 2 and 3? Move them, too? What if there's a ledge? Again, I say ARGH! The only other thought I have at the moment is turn the figure upside down and place the base back into the ladder rung, simulating starting to fall and your leg gets caught leaving you dangling. But, then, what if you are only 2 rungs up and the figure doesn't fit this way? If we have to go back to stun markers, they'll have to go on the figure or we're back to square one on how stunning affects squad units.

[SirGalahad]

Figures can't move through an opponent's figure or through an engaged friendly figure. If your buddy was stunned above you on the ladder, you'd want to hold him up. If your enemy was stunned above you, you'd probably be happy to see him fall.

Moving your or the opponents' figures to accommodate the falling stunned figure seems a bit much. This is still a game, and so whatever we do has to fit within the mechanics of the game, even if it doesn't "fit" the laws of the known universe. And I realize we are creaing a new mechanic here.

How about this:

Stunning a Figure on a Ladder

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure and the space at the base of the ladder are vacant, place the figure in Stunned Position on that space. Roll for falling damage as required.

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure or the space at the base of the ladder is not vacant, place the figure on the lowest available ladder rung. Roll for falling damage as required. (Imagine him getting an arm or leg stuck in the ladder)
(This still has the problem of indicating that the figure is Stunned).

Since the figure can't "fall" (end its move) onto a space occupied by another figure, there is no damage to the player who is just standing there.

@mac122 If the squad figures were different minis, you could put the marker on that mini's hit zone silhouette or picture.

[mac122]

Figures can't move through an opponent's figure or through an engaged friendly figure. If your buddy was stunned above you on the ladder, you'd want to hold him up. If your enemy was stunned above you, you'd probably be happy to see him fall.

Moving your or the opponents' figures to accommodate the falling stunned figure seems a bit much. This is still a game, and so whatever we do has to fit within the mechanics of the game, even if it doesn't "fit" the laws of the known universe. And I realize we are creaing a new mechanic here.

How about this:

Stunning a Figure on a Ladder

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure and the space at the base of the ladder are vacant, place the figure in Stunned Position on that space. Roll for falling damage as required.

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure or the space at the base of the ladder is not vacant, place the figure on the lowest available ladder rung. Roll for falling damage as required. (Imagine him getting an arm or leg stuck in the ladder)
(This still has the problem of indicating that the figure is Stunned).

Since the figure can't "fall" (end its move) onto a space occupied by another figure, there is no damage to the player who is just standing there.

@mac122 If the squad figures were different minis, you could put the marker on that mini's hit zone silhouette or picture.
I think this is workable. IMO, we'd have to specifiy in this situation a figure could not move through the stunned figure on the ladder. Since this is all a special rule anyway, I'd like to use a stun marker on the figure, even if this is the only situation it is used.
Using the silhouettes to mark stunned squad figures would work in most situations, but we don't know how many different figures for Trek squads will be available - all our red shirts or Klingons may be the same figure, at least at first.

[dfonse]

But what if there are no spaces available adjacent to the space at the base of the ladder?

Imagine a ladder with walls (W) on left and right (think half-enclosed Jeffries Tube) with a figure (1) at the base of the ladder and figures (2 and 3) occupying the only spaces adjacent to (1). A Stunned figure falls from the ladder. Now what?

W-W-W-W
-W-1-W-
W-2-3-W
Argh! I'd like to say what dfonse said and just move 2 and 3 another space. But then what if 4, 5, and 6 are standing next to 2 and 3? Move them, too? What if there's a ledge? Again, I say ARGH! The only other thought I have at the moment is turn the figure upside down and place the base back into the ladder rung, simulating starting to fall and your leg gets caught leaving you dangling. But, then, what if you are only 2 rungs up and the figure doesn't fit this way? If we have to go back to stun markers, they'll have to go on the figure or we're back to square one on how stunning affects squad units.

I geuss just keep moving 4,5,and 6. If theirs a ledge push them off. They will all take falling :twisted:

[dfonse]

Figures can't move through an opponent's figure or through an engaged friendly figure. If your buddy was stunned above you on the ladder, you'd want to hold him up. If your enemy was stunned above you, you'd probably be happy to see him fall.

Moving your or the opponents' figures to accommodate the falling stunned figure seems a bit much. This is still a game, and so whatever we do has to fit within the mechanics of the game, even if it doesn't "fit" the laws of the known universe. And I realize we are creaing a new mechanic here.

How about this:

Stunning a Figure on a Ladder

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure and the space at the base of the ladder are vacant, place the figure in Stunned Position on that space. Roll for falling damage as required.

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure or the space at the base of the ladder is not vacant, place the figure on the lowest available ladder rung. Roll for falling damage as required. (Imagine him getting an arm or leg stuck in the ladder)
(This still has the problem of indicating that the figure is Stunned).

Since the figure can't "fall" (end its move) onto a space occupied by another figure, there is no damage to the player who is just standing there.


If an ally or enemy can choose to catch the stunned figure. The catcher looses 2 move and can not attack while holding that figure. He may place that figure next to him (on the same level or even drop him for damage). The stunned will not take falling or engagement damage taken by the carrier.

[SirGalahad]

Figures can't move through an opponent's figure or through an engaged friendly figure. If your buddy was stunned above you on the ladder, you'd want to hold him up. If your enemy was stunned above you, you'd probably be happy to see him fall.

Moving your or the opponents' figures to accommodate the falling stunned figure seems a bit much. This is still a game, and so whatever we do has to fit within the mechanics of the game, even if it doesn't "fit" the laws of the known universe. And I realize we are creaing a new mechanic here.

How about this:

Stunning a Figure on a Ladder

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure and the space at the base of the ladder are vacant, place the figure in Stunned Position on that space. Roll for falling damage as required.

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure or the space at the base of the ladder is not vacant, place the figure on the lowest available ladder rung. Roll for falling damage as required. (Imagine him getting an arm or leg stuck in the ladder)
(This still has the problem of indicating that the figure is Stunned).

Since the figure can't "fall" (end its move) onto a space occupied by another figure, there is no damage to the player who is just standing there.

@mac122 If the squad figures were different minis, you could put the marker on that mini's hit zone silhouette or picture.
I think this is workable. IMO, we'd have to specifiy in this situation a figure could not move through the stunned figure on the ladder. Since this is all a special rule anyway, I'd like to use a stun marker on the figure, even if this is the only situation it is used.
Using the silhouettes to mark stunned squad figures would work in most situations, but we don't know how many different figures for Trek squads will be available - all our red shirts or Klingons may be the same figure, at least at first.


If that's the only situation (stunned figure on a ladder - and I think it would be) where we had to use a marker on the figure, I could go with that.

@ dfonse
Although "catching" the falling stunned figure could happen in real life (what am I saying, we're talking Star Trek here), sometimes we have to simplify or even sacrifice some things for the sake of game mechanics.

Stun adds a nice thematic flavor - a choice really - to the figures, but if the mechanics get too messy and interrupt turn flow too much, people won't be interested in using it.

[dfonse]

Figures can't move through an opponent's figure or through an engaged friendly figure. If your buddy was stunned above you on the ladder, you'd want to hold him up. If your enemy was stunned above you, you'd probably be happy to see him fall.

Moving your or the opponents' figures to accommodate the falling stunned figure seems a bit much. This is still a game, and so whatever we do has to fit within the mechanics of the game, even if it doesn't "fit" the laws of the known universe. And I realize we are creaing a new mechanic here.

How about this:

Stunning a Figure on a Ladder

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure and the space at the base of the ladder are vacant, place the figure in Stunned Position on that space. Roll for falling damage as required.

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure or the space at the base of the ladder is not vacant, place the figure on the lowest available ladder rung. Roll for falling damage as required. (Imagine him getting an arm or leg stuck in the ladder)
(This still has the problem of indicating that the figure is Stunned).

Since the figure can't "fall" (end its move) onto a space occupied by another figure, there is no damage to the player who is just standing there.

@mac122 If the squad figures were different minis, you could put the marker on that mini's hit zone silhouette or picture.
I think this is workable. IMO, we'd have to specifiy in this situation a figure could not move through the stunned figure on the ladder. Since this is all a special rule anyway, I'd like to use a stun marker on the figure, even if this is the only situation it is used.
Using the silhouettes to mark stunned squad figures would work in most situations, but we don't know how many different figures for Trek squads will be available - all our red shirts or Klingons may be the same figure, at least at first.


If that's the only situation (stunned figure on a ladder - and I think it would be) where we had to use a marker on the figure, I could go with that.

@ dfonse
Although "catching" the falling stunned figure could happen in real life (what am I saying, we're talking Star Trek here), sometimes we have to simplify or even sacrifice some things for the sake of game mechanics.

Stun adds a nice thematic flavor - a choice really - to the figures, but if the mechanics get too messy and interrupt turn flow too much, people won't be interested in using it.

So you are saying captain Kurk is to weak to catch Spock? :lol:

[SirGalahad]

Nah, just that Spock shouldn't be going up the ladder first.:lol:

[SirGalahad]

With Seven of Nine (I couldn't help myself) votes in, there is a clear super-majority to let squad figures live and be stunned. We'll be going with Stun v2.0.

STUN

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

NOTE: Stun is NOT a special attack.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

If the defending figure would receive at least one wound, ignore all wounds, and place the figure in Stunned Position (horizontally on its space).

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

All figures may move through stunned figures. Figures leaving engagement with stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer affected by Stun.

At the end of each round Stun wears off and each previously Stunned figure is placed in Upright Position (vertically on its space).

Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan would have received 1 wound, Khan is now Stunned and is placed in Stunned Position.

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who can move through the stunned Khan to gain height advantage, and attacks him.

Spock rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and receives 2 wounds.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned and is placed in Upright Position.

Additional examples would be included


The next discussion is about ladders:

Do stunned figures fall off the ladders, if there is a clear path for them to fall, or do they stay on their rung?

If there's not a clear path for them to fall, what happens?

If they stay on the ladder, how do we indicate they are stunned (since we can't lay them down ?

Can figures moved through stunned figures on ladders?

[lefton4ya]

How about changing "place the figure in Stunned Position (horizontally on its space)" to "place a stun marker on the card", and both "the figure is no longer affected by Stun" and "Stun wears off and each previously Stunned figure is placed in Upright Position (vertically on its space)." to "remove the stun marker from the card." If Grimnak or Dragons (or even normal height figures) are stunned the previously stated way, it could get messy.

[mac122]

With Seven of Nine (I couldn't help myself) votes in, there is a clear super-majority to let squad figures live and be stunned. We'll be going with Stun v2.0.

STUN

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

NOTE: Stun is NOT a special attack.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

If the defending figure would receive at least one wound, ignore all wounds, and place the figure in Stunned Position (horizontally on its space).

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

Figures may move through stunned figures. Figures leaving engagement with stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer affected by Stun.

At the end of each round Stun wears off and each previously Stunned figure is placed in Upright Position (vertically on its space).

Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan would have received 1 wound, Khan is now Stunned and is placed in Stunned Position.

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who can move through the stunned Khan to gain height advantage, and attacks him.

Spock rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and receives 2 wounds.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned and is placed in Upright Position.

Additional examples would be included


The next discussion is about ladders:

Do stunned figures fall off the ladders, if there is a clear path for them to fall, or do they stay on their rung?

If there's not a clear path for them to fall, what happens?

If they stay on the ladder, how do we indicate they are stunned (since we can't lay them down ?

Can figures moved through stunned figures on ladders?
Nice work SirG. The participation rate has been great from all the voting members! Great job, crew!

I think what you had earlier is a great start.

Stunning a Figure on a Ladder

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure and the space at the base of the ladder are vacant, place the figure in Stunned Position on that space. Roll for falling damage as required.

If all ladder rungs below the stunned figure or the space at the base of the ladder is not vacant, place the figure on the lowest available ladder rung. Roll for falling damage as required. (Imagine him getting an arm or leg stuck in the ladder)
(This still has the problem of indicating that the figure is Stunned).

Since the figure can't "fall" (end its move) onto a space occupied by another figure, there is no damage to the player who is just standing there.
I think using a small marker on the figure's base would be acceptable to show stun on a ladder. Since it's a special rule anyway, we can explain it. I don't think figures should be able to move through a stunned figure on a ladder.

[Felindar]

We could go with tip over if posible, and place a stunned marker.

Or even Designat stuned figures as you choose.

[mac122]

How about changing "place the figure in Stunned Position (horizontally on its space)" to "place a stun marker on the card", and both "the figure is no longer affected by Stun" and "Stun wears off and each previously Stunned figure is placed in Upright Position (vertically on its space)." to "remove the stun marker from the card." If Grimnak or Dragons (or even normal height figures) are stunned the previously stated way, it could get messy.
Do we want to state that stun only affects small or medium figures? I think that would resolve the issue that Lefton4ya brings up. I'd rather stay away from markers on the card since we are allowing squaddies to be stunned. It will be difficult in many situations to show which figure is stunned.

[Felindar]

I myself have a problem with stunning some of the Large figs. I really can se limiting it to S and M figures.

[lefton4ya]

Duh - yeah forgot about squads. A marker on the base might work. And yes I like for small and medium figures only. Of course, we can later make characters with ability of "Stun Aversion" that cannot be stunned, but I would imagine stun is useless on huge figures and maybe large. if we wanted to get more complicated we could do a 20-D roll for large figures, but stun is complicated as it is.

On a related note, I don't want to scare off heroscape players from actually playing TrekScape because the rules are too complicated. Imagine inviting some novice heroscape players to play a finished Trekscape - if they think it is too different thay will not play or at least not a second time and just go back to normal scape or C3G. Not that those are bad, I just would rather Trekscape stay as close to the heroscape mechanics and stay "fun" and would sacrifice not being exactly like the TV show/movie mechanics if it meant complicated rules.

[SirGalahad]

The text of Stun as it reads right now only affects small or medium figures.

We could add a line of text to the effect of

"if a figure cannot be placed in Stun position, it is left up to the players to determine how to designate that the figure is stunned. One option is to place a Stun Marker on the figure's base."

Because the only situations I foresee where the horizontal Stunned Position might not be available are

figures on ladders
tall/wide figures (like Kyrie) in narrow passages

[Felindar]

The text of Stun as it reads right now only affects small or medium figures.




I thought so.:confused:

[wulfhunter667]

The text of Stun as it reads right now only affects small or medium figures.

We could add a line of text to the effect of

"if a figure cannot be placed in Stun position, it is left up to the players to determine how to designate that the figure is stunned. One option is to place a Stun Marker on the figure's base."


Because the only situations I foresee where the horizontal Stunned Position might not be available are
figures on ladders
tall/wide figures (like Kyrie) in narrow passages
I think we might be overanalyzing this. Honestly, the text as written is fine. The fact the Stunned and Upright Position are there should do just find with the ideas for figures on ladders added in. As far as the kyrie in narrow passages example, I think it would be best to have a running FAQ for situations like this. Have a mock question about "large" medium figures and give suggestions on the subject (do the best you can, leave it upright and flip card to indicate stunned, etc). I REALLY want to avoid using markers, or at the very least, limit their use, if we can. If it's unavoidable, then use markers, but in this case, I don't think it's necessary.

[SirGalahad]

I have one reply addressing moving through stunned figures on ladders.
mac says no

What say the rest of you?

[wulfhunter667]

I have one reply addressing moving through stunned figures on ladders.
mac says no

What say the rest of you?
Moving through stunned figures on ladders, no. All other stunned figures, yes.
In that same vein, can we get the text for moving through changed to "All figures may move through stunned figures?" That way there is no confusion about whether or not you and your opponent(s) can move through the figure.

[SirGalahad]

I have one reply addressing moving through stunned figures on ladders.
mac says no

What say the rest of you?
Moving through stunned figures on ladders, no. All other stunned figures, yes.
In that same vein, can we get the text for moving through changed to "All figures may move through stunned figures?" That way there is no confusion about whether or not you and your opponent(s) can move through the figure.

I think I can afford 3 more letters.

The front page links to the most updated version.

[Felindar]

I have one reply addressing moving through stunned figures on ladders.
mac says no

What say the rest of you?

No I might argue someone could chuck him off but move through, no.

[lefton4ya]

I say stunned figures stay on ladders and people can go through them. No more clarification in rules is necissary for this scenario then.

I also HATE the idea of making stunned figures on their side. IMHO it makes a mess of the battlefield as they could take up anywhere from one to 7 spaces (a hex with all sides blocked) depending on how the figure was dropped. There about 10 additional clarifications you need such as who decides where/how the figure is placed, what if there are figurers surrounding them and they cannot be placed where they fit on their side at all, how you define engagement on the battlefield, if/how two or three adjacent figures can be configured if they are all stunned, what about spaces that are on different height where figures would need to be slanted or would literally fall off a cliff (as in the plastic figure would slide off) , if/how can figures go on/around a partially blocked hex (including friendly figures and enemies), and probably many more questions (I just came up with those questions on the time it took to write them). I personally do not want to have to answer all the questions and either put them in the rule and/or FAQ and would rather leave it out to focus the game on being easy and fun.

Having a marker on the base is the easiest way to differentiate a figure being stunned. I know thematically it looks cooler to have a figure on its side, but it is something I would never possibly imagine seeing in a official rulebook and I think would confuse more players than it would make them have fun playing it. This is my opinion, and if you disagree, I welcome your opinion as well If I am a minority I would gladly go with whatever rule most people agree on, but I ask that you consider seeing how this would make the game a lot more complicated than it is worth.

[Felindar]

I have always liked and preferred the idea of stun markers. I know some people are against them. But if there is this much angst about figure placement. I personally was going to put a glass bead on the base of the figures for my home games anyway.

Pete

[mac122]

Lefton4ya raises some valid points. I like the idea of laying the figures down, but we would need to have answers to his questions. If we can create a simple way to make it work, I'd prefer to stick with the way SirG has it worded. If not, markers will likely be the answer.

[pjnormandin]

I have always liked and preferred the idea of stun markers. I know some people are against them. But if there is this much angst about figure placement. I personally was going to put a glass bead on the base of the figures for my home games anyway.

Pete


I was always going to use a chip on the base of the figure. A repainted wound marker or just a plain one or whatever. Laying the figure down does not appeal to me. I think it would look terrible on the battlefield.

[SirGalahad]

lefton4ya's point about simplicity on the ladders is well-taken.

Rather than have a separate section on ladders to "break" the rule of Stun, which is "breaking" the regular rules anyway, we make a small sacrifice in theme for the sake of gameplay simplicity.

And I'm the one who started this discussion :roll: (My OCD at work)

I'm inclined to allow the figure to remain on its ladder rung and have figures move through it, as if the figure were on any other space. No additional conditions or specifications are then needed.

The Optional Rule Set will define what a "Stun Marker" is (anything people want to use), but the Stun ability, as written below, is sufficient to add a definite Trek-ness to the game.


OK, so it sounds like we have a majority leaning toward standing upright. :lol:

Makes it easier on me, I don't have to define "Stunned Position."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

STUN

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

NOTE: Stun is NOT a special attack.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

If the defending figure would receive at least one wound, ignore all wounds, and place a Stun Marker on the figure.

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

All figures may move through stunned figures. Figures leaving engagement with stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer affected by Stun. Remove the Stun Marker from the figure.

At the end of each round Stun wears off and all Stun Markers are removed.

Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan would have received 1 wound, Khan is now Stunned and a Stun Marker is placed on the figure.

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who can move through the stunned Khan to gain height advantage, and attacks him.

Spock rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and receives 2 wounds.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned and his Stun Marker is removed.

Additional examples would be included (hopefully with pictures)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember, consensus in a group this size means voting something up or down based on what you can live with, because no set of circumstances (or rulesets) will ever be ideal.

Can we get a :up: or :down: from the Commanders and Lt. Commanders by PM?

[dfonse]

How do I become A Lt Commander?

[pjnormandin]

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.


"Special abilities" are negated while stun is in effect? No special attack, no special powers, no nothing?

ie: a stunned Raelin provides no defense bonus.

It's like temporary negation?

[Felindar]

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.


"Special abilities" are negated while stun is in effect? No special attack, no special powers, no nothing?

ie: a stunned Raelin provides no defense bonus.

It's like temporary negation?

It seems to be the only way around Active special abilities that would break theme swinging dodging and so on wile stunned. I don't think we want an argument each time about whether an ability should stay up, or not.


Pete

[pjnormandin]

Temporary negation would be the way to go. I don't believe Kaemon Awa should be able to counter strike Worf while K Awa is in a stunned state.

Pete

[SirGalahad]

That was what people voted for, and you're giving up an attack die to even TRY it. If we want to modify how long it lasts if people think it's "broken" then we can adjust the 20-sided die roll down.

[pjnormandin]

That was what people voted for, and you're giving up an attack die to even TRY it. If we want to modify how long it lasts if people think it's "broken" then we can adjust the 20-sided die roll down.

I don't think it's broken.

[mac122]

No, it's not broken. I think it's good enought for playtesting. Nice job everyone!
Remember, consensus in a group this size means voting something up or down based on what you can live with, because no set of circumstances (or rulesets) will ever be ideal.

Remember, consensus in a group this size means voting something up or down based on what you can live with, because no set of circumstances (or rulesets) will ever be ideal.
Can we get a or from the Commanders and Lt. Commanders by PM?
Commanders and Lt. Commanders PM SirG your votes if you haven't already.

[Boodog]

Temporary negation would be the way to go. I don't believe Kaemon Awa should be able to counter strike Worf while K Awa is in a stunned state.

Pete

I like the ruleset, so I will vote yes to it.

1) I think pj's got a good point and his solution should be included in the rules, too.

2) The players would declare beforehand if stun rules are active or not, right?

[SirGalahad]

How do I become A Lt Commander?

TrekScape Ensigns
Jdet
Ensigns duties include discussion. Any interested member of the community may request to be a TrekScape Ensign. Ensigns who show a commitment to the project through frequent posting and taking part in discussions may request a promotion to Lieutenant Commander. Ensigns should playtest our designs whenever possible. Playtesting, like regular posting, will be taken into account for those Ensigns asking to be promoted to Lt. Commander.

From the first post on the main thread.

[Felindar]

Temporary negation would be the way to go. I don't believe Kaemon Awa should be able to counter strike Worf while K Awa is in a stunned state.

Pete

I like the ruleset, so I will vote yes to it.

1) I think pj's got a good point and his solution should be included in the rules, too.

2) The players would declare beforehand if stun rules are active or not, right?


If we say the stunned can not use any special abilities already, why do we need to add another line stating the powers are negated, if they are stunned? It is already there.

[SirGalahad]

I'm going to be off the boards today -- I'm actually PLAYING 'Scape at the Arizona Game Day. I'll tally the votes when I get back.

[Boodog]

Temporary negation would be the way to go. I don't believe Kaemon Awa should be able to counter strike Worf while K Awa is in a stunned state.

Pete

I like the ruleset, so I will vote yes to it.

1) I think pj's got a good point and his solution should be included in the rules, too.

2) The players would declare beforehand if stun rules are active or not, right?


If we say the stunned can not use any special abilities already, why do we need to add another line stating the powers are negated, if they are stunned? It is already there.

I didn't see a stipulation for that. COUNTERSTRIKE isn't a special ability, by the way, so it should say all normal and special abilties are negated while stunned. Like pj says -- counterstrike while stunned makes little sense.

[Felindar]

Ok, I just checked the Marvel rulebook and The DnD rulebook in both they are called Special powers. But anything in that space is a special Power/ability. I am aware of no "Normal Power" designation. I know you don't mean a normal attack because counter strike gives unblockable hits from extra shields, it does not trigger an normal attack.:confused:


From Stun latest version

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

[pjnormandin]

Ok, I just checked the Marvel rulebook and The DnD rulebook in both they are called Special powers. But anything in that space is a special Power/ability. I am aware of no "Normal Power" designation. I know you don't mean a normal attack because counter strike gives unblockable hits from extra shields, it does not trigger an normal attack.:confused:


From Stun latest version

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

I guess I was worried for nothing then. There was a problem but it was only in my head and not in the power. I need to see Counselor Troi in my quarters immediately!

[Boodog]

Ok, I just checked the Marvel rulebook and The DnD rulebook in both they are called Special powers. But anything in that space is a special Power/ability. I am aware of no "Normal Power" designation. I know you don't mean a normal attack because counter strike gives unblockable hits from extra shields, it does not trigger an normal attack.:confused:


From Stun latest version

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

I guess I was worried for nothing then. There was a problem but it was only in my head and not in the power. I need to see Counselor Troi in my quarters immediately!

Ditto here. Thanks for checking.

[Felindar]

Ok, I just checked the Marvel rulebook and The DnD rulebook in both they are called Special powers. But anything in that space is a special Power/ability. I am aware of no "Normal Power" designation. I know you don't mean a normal attack because counter strike gives unblockable hits from extra shields, it does not trigger an normal attack.:confused:


From Stun latest version

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special abilities.

I guess I was worried for nothing then. There was a problem but it was only in my head and not in the power. I need to see Counselor Troi in my quarters immediately!


If it will get Troi to my quarters I will agree with both of you. :drunk:

</IMG></IMG>

[pjnormandin]

I guess I was worried for nothing then. There was a problem but it was only in my head and not in the power. I need to see Counselor Troi in my quarters immediately!


If it will get Troi to my quarters I will agree with both of you. :drunk:



Trois all around then. Dibbs on Deanna.

[wulfhunter667]

I guess I was worried for nothing then. There was a problem but it was only in my head and not in the power. I need to see Counselor Troi in my quarters immediately!


If it will get Troi to my quarters I will agree with both of you. :drunk:



Trois all around then. Dibbs on Deanna.
Troi is hot, and you guys can have her. DIBBS ON SEVEN!!! 8)

[pjnormandin]

I guess I was worried for nothing then. There was a problem but it was only in my head and not in the power. I need to see Counselor Troi in my quarters immediately!


If it will get Troi to my quarters I will agree with both of you. :drunk:



Trois all around then. Dibbs on Deanna.
Troi is hot, and pj can have her. DIBBS ON SEVEN!!! 8)

I fixed it for you.

[Boodog]

I guess I was worried for nothing then. There was a problem but it was only in my head and not in the power. I need to see Counselor Troi in my quarters immediately!


If it will get Troi to my quarters I will agree with both of you. :drunk:



Trois all around then. Dibbs on Deanna.
Troi is hot, and pj can have her. DIBBS ON SEVEN!!! 8)

I fixed it for you.


Ambassador K'Ehleyr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STEmissary.jpg) :D

[Felindar]

I will take dibs on Deena, I have the best wife to put up with my Heroscape on line life.

[pjnormandin]

I will take dibs on Deena, I have the best wife to put up with my Heroscape on line life.

You are a lucky man, Felindar.

[SirGalahad]

I leave this thread for less than a day and look what happens.

:roll:

[pjnormandin]

I leave this thread for less than a day and look what happens.

:roll:

That's what you get for going off and PLAYING HeroScape!
I didn't get to play HeroScape today.

[SirGalahad]

OK, the votes are in and the majority would prefer to . . . let the people decide, which means those who had a preference will still get to use that preference in their games, so there really are no losers here.

Here's the updated version:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

STUN

One of the most iconic representations of Trek weaponry is the hand-held phaser. Figures who are able to use this special ability will have this symbol on their Army Cards

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/4/5/5/9/phaser.jpg

In order for a figure to use this special ability, the player controlling the figure must announce that s/he is attempting to stun the opponent's figure.

Stun may only be used against small or medium figures.

NOTE: Stun is NOT a special attack.

Figures who are attempting to stun roll one fewer attack die, after all other attack modifcations (height, etc.) have been included. Defending figures roll defense dice normally.

If the defending figure would receive at least one wound, ignore all wounds. The figure is now Stunned* and remains on its current space or ladder rung.

Stunned figures roll 2 fewer defense dice, to a minimum of 1 die, and cannot move, attack, or use any special powers.

All figures may move through stunned figures. Figures leaving engagement with stunned figures do not take any leaving engagement attacks from stunned figures.

After revealing an Order Marker on a stunned figure's Army Card, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the figure is no longer Stunned.

At the end of each round Stun wears off and each previously Stunned figure is no longer Stunned.

*How to designate that a figure is Stunned is left entirely up to the players, but needs to be decided as part of the agreement to use this optional ruleset.




Some possibilities include:
Stun Markers - Players may choose to indicate that a figure is Stunned by placing a marker of some kind on either the Army Card or on the figure itself. Possibilities include, but are not limited to: painted wound markers, small glass beads, rubber bands. Once Stun has worn off at the end of the round or as the result of a 20-sided die roll, simply remove the marker.
Stunned Position - Players may choose to indicate that a figure is Stunned by placing the figure horizontally on its space. Once Stun has worn off at the end of the round or as the result of a 20-sided die roll, simply place the figure upright.Example: (these assume attack and defense numbers, so they can be adjusted once the figures are finalized)

Player 1 reveals OM2 on Captain Kirk, who has extreme height advantage on Khan, so his normal attack of 3 is increased by 2 to 5. Captain Kirk attempts to stun Khan, so his attack number is reduced by 1 to 4.

Captain Kirk rolls :skull::skull::shield::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:

Since Khan would have received 1 wound, the wound is ignored, and Khan is now Stunned.

Player 2 reveals OM2 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 10. Khan remains stunned.

Player 1 reveals OM3 on Spock, who can move through the stunned Khan to gain height advantage, and attacks him.

Spock rolls :skull::skull::skull::shield:. Khan rolls :skull::shield:, because of his reduced defense, and receives 2 wounds.

Player 2 reveals OM3 on Khan, so s/he rolls the 20-sided die and rolls 3.
Khan remains stunned.

At the end of the round, Khan is no longer stunned.

Additional examples would be included

---------------------------------------------------------------------
How does that sound? Playtesting will determine the 20-sided die roll needed to un-Stun -- I just threw 12 out there to start with. And once we get some figures finalized, I can develop more examples.

EDIT: front page updated

[wulfhunter667]

Thank you sir, may I have another. I like it. 8)

[lefton4ya]

I could live with that. I actually recant half of my earlier marks. I bet if you play with some cool people, and place the figure on their side, most people are not going to be jerks about crazy questions like multiple engagement, and making figures lie to be like stinger denial. However, there are always those few that will to this, so since it is a house rule I could see leaving the owner of the house (or hexes & figures) to make the rules and smack players and/or change rules if they get out of hand.

[Felindar]

I could live with that. I actually recant half of my earlier marks. I bet if you play with some cool people, and place the figure on their side, most people are not going to be jerks about crazy questions like multiple engagement, and making figures lie to be like stinger denial. However, there are always those few that will to this, so since it is a house rule I could see leaving the owner of the house (or hexes & figures) to make the rules and smack players and/or change rules if they get out of hand.

I have played with those types. Then I beamed them into space. It is totaly not worth it.

The stun rules look shiny

[SirGalahad]

Thanks for the kind words.

Now that Stun is finalized, we can move on to Transporters.

It has been suggested that a Transporter could be represented as a glyph, a destructible object, or as a power (not a symbol) on different figures' Army Cards. I am sure there are other ideas out there, so let's hear them!

Here's the discussion so far regarding Transporters:

Beam in as an ability could be a version of the AE's drop. Though I'm leaning toward having a transport ability on an engineer or having a transporter DO that would let you beam figures all over the map.

I don't know about beaming into or out of battles. I was thinking that these battles would be after figures had already been beamed into the areas.

Tying beaming to a class like "Engineer" would mean that every other race that had transporter technology would have to have an Engineer as well, and I don't know if that's wise.

If there were a Glyph of Transporter Technology, maybe controlling it allows you to move a figure back to your start zone once per game.

Finally, an interesting thought ran across my mind about the tech thing. What if we have Engineers with Transporter ability to remove squads from play and the Communications Officer having the ability to return them to play elsewhere on the battlefield? Creates an interesting synergy between the two types of customs and sounds like it might be fun to play.
That's all I got for now.

[mac122]

Somewhere in these threads I suggested a Transporter glyph that would allow any character to beam themselves to any hex in clear sight (I don't think I suggested a range). If the figure standing on the hex was an Engineer class, they could instead beam a friendly figure. After thinking about it, if an Engineer was on the glyph and a friendly communications officer was on the battlefield then perhaps that could allow multiple transports or allow the beaming to use the communications officer's LOS instead.

[wulfhunter667]

Somewhere in these threads I suggested a Transporter glyph that would allow any character to beam themselves to any hex in clear sight (I don't think I suggested a range). If the figure standing on the hex was an Engineer class, they could instead beam a friendly figure. After thinking about it, if an Engineer was on the glyph and a friendly communications officer was on the battlefield then perhaps that could allow multiple transports or allow the beaming to use the communications officer's LOS instead.
That's not a bad idea.
Glyph Of Transporter
This figure may use the Glyph of Transporter to immediately move to any empty space within 8 cls. If an Engineer lands on this Glyph, he may place any figure within 3 cls on any empty space within 12 cls. You may add 3 to that range for each friendly Comm Officer you control. Figures moved using the Glyph of Transporter may not be placed adjacent to other figures or on glyphs.

[lefton4ya]

I like the idea of certain characters (Engineers & Transporter chiefs such as Scotty & Mile O'Brian) have a written power to transport players. This would allow a "Site-to-site transporter" ability that can beam players (heroes or entire squads at once) from anywhere to anywhere within a certain range of the transporter chief and/or where the person started. We could make a D-20 roll determine the maximum range of a transport (1-5 is no transport, 6-18 is a 1-to-1 range, 19-20 is anywhere on the board).

We could also have glyps represent transporter pads that either you must be on the glyph to be transported to anywhere on the board, or they could be from transported anywhere on the board to the pads. Like the castle door, a spot next to the glyph(s) would control the beaming and we could make beaming be done on the person who controls the transporter's turn, on the person who is being transported's turn, or at any time (like castle door rule). These glyphs could be in a person's start zone or in the middle of the board, but if it is in the start zone of each player, it basically makes the game more like HOB rules. We could make a D-20 roll determine the maximum range of a transport (1-5 is no transport, 6-18 is a 1-to-1 range, 19-20 is anywhere on the board). I like the idea of 3-4 glyphs next to each other as pads and one different glyph nearby as the transporter console, that way one figure can transport a whole squad at once.

Another idea is having the glyph being able to be destroyed, but if player 1 transported to player 2's start zone and destroyed their transporter first, it could be devastating, so I would only allow a destroyable transporter if you could not transport from one person's start zone to the other.

[Jdet]

I like the idea of certain characters (Engineers & Transporter chiefs such as Scotty & Mile O'Brian) have a written power to transport players. This would allow a "Site-to-site transporter" ability that can beam players (heroes or entire squads at once) from anywhere to anywhere within a certain range of the transporter chief and/or where the person started. We could make a D-20 roll determine the maximum range of a transport (1-5 is no transport, 6-18 is a 1-to-1 range, 19-20 is anywhere on the board).

We could also have glyps represent transporter pads that either you must be on the glyph to be transported to anywhere on the board, or they could be from transported anywhere on the board to the pads. Like the castle door, a spot next to the glyph(s) would control the beaming and we could make beaming be done on the person who controls the transporter's turn, on the person who is being transported's turn, or at any time (like castle door rule). These glyphs could be in a person's start zone or in the middle of the board, but if it is in the start zone of each player, it basically makes the game more like HOB rules. We could make a D-20 roll determine the maximum range of a transport (1-5 is no transport, 6-18 is a 1-to-1 range, 19-20 is anywhere on the board). I like the idea of 3-4 glyphs next to each other as pads and one different glyph nearby as the transporter console, that way one figure can transport a whole squad at once.

Another idea is having the glyph being able to be destroyed, but if player 1 transported to player 2's start zone and destroyed their transporter first, it could be devastating, so I would only allow a destroyable transporter if you could not transport from one person's start zone to the other.

Would you use Miles O'Brian as a Kato type figure. I.e. order marker on O'Brian-get to transport and use Picard.

[SirGalahad]

As an idea, here's the text from the Glyph of the Boom Tube from C3G (not that ours has to be the same)

GLYPH OF THE BOOM TUBE (Teleport)

PERMANENT GLYPH

When one of your figures stops here, you may immediately move that figure to any empty space within 10 spaces of the Glyph. If the figure occupying this Glyph is engaged before teleporting, the figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

[Felindar]

I could see the Transporter glif as a option especialy in a shipboard senerio. I also think an ability version where you get to Place your army second, anywhere on the battlefield, and go first {first round only, roll off if you both have transporters.

[Felindar]

Thanks for the kind words.

Now that Stun is finalized, we can move on to Transporters.



http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/Set%20for%20Stun%20copy.jpg

Assuming that is the final card version it is done. Give her a check please.

Pete

[SirGalahad]

Thanks for the kind words.

Now that Stun is finalized, we can move on to Transporters.



http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/Set%20for%20Stun%20copy.jpg

Assuming that is the final card version it is done. Give her a check please.

Pete

I din't know we were doing cards for the rules, but it looks cool.

You need a line at the bottom referencing the * in the text.

"*It is left up to the players to determine how to indicate that a figure is Stunned."

[wulfhunter667]

As an idea, here's the text from the Glyph of the Boom Tube from C3G (not that ours has to be the same)

GLYPH OF THE BOOM TUBE (Teleport)

PERMANENT GLYPH

When one of your figures stops here, you may immediately move that figure to any empty space within 10 spaces of the Glyph. If the figure occupying this Glyph is engaged before teleporting, the figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
This is not too dissimilar from what I have below.
Somewhere in these threads I suggested a Transporter glyph that would allow any character to beam themselves to any hex in clear sight (I don't think I suggested a range). If the figure standing on the hex was an Engineer class, they could instead beam a friendly figure. After thinking about it, if an Engineer was on the glyph and a friendly communications officer was on the battlefield then perhaps that could allow multiple transports or allow the beaming to use the communications officer's LOS instead.
That's not a bad idea.
Glyph Of Transporter
This figure may use the Glyph of Transporter to immediately move to any empty space within 8 cls. If an Engineer lands on this Glyph, he may place any figure within 3 cls on any empty space within 12 cls. You may add 3 to that range for each friendly Comm Officer you control. Figures moved using the Glyph of Transporter may not be placed adjacent to other figures or on glyphs.

I like the idea of certain characters (Engineers & Transporter chiefs such as Scotty & Mile O'Brian) have a written power to transport players. This would allow a "Site-to-site transporter" ability that can beam players (heroes or entire squads at once) from anywhere to anywhere within a certain range of the transporter chief and/or where the person started. We could make a D-20 roll determine the maximum range of a transport (1-5 is no transport, 6-18 is a 1-to-1 range, 19-20 is anywhere on the board).
I'm not sure I think the d20 roll for transport. But see below. I do like the idea about having Engineers having a bons to their Transporter ranges. Maybe +2 or 3 to Glyph of Transporter ranges. That would work.
We could also have glyps represent transporter pads that either you must be on the glyph to be transported to anywhere on the board, or they could be from transported anywhere on the board to the pads. Like the castle door, a spot next to the glyph(s) would control the beaming and we could make beaming be done on the person who controls the transporter's turn, on the person who is being transported's turn, or at any time (like castle door rule). These glyphs could be in a person's start zone or in the middle of the board, but if it is in the start zone of each player, it basically makes the game more like HOB rules. We could make a D-20 roll determine the maximum range of a transport (1-5 is no transport, 6-18 is a 1-to-1 range, 19-20 is anywhere on the board). I like the idea of 3-4 glyphs next to each other as pads and one different glyph nearby as the transporter console, that way one figure can transport a whole squad at once.
Not sure about having multiple gylphs either. Instead, why not have...

Glyph Of Transporter
This figure may use the Glyph of Transporter to immediately move to any empty space within 8 cls. If an Engineer lands on this Glyph, he may place any friendly figure within 3 cls or up to 3 friendly figures that are adjacent and not engaged on any empty space within 12 cls. You may add 3 to that range for each friendly Comm Officer you control. Figures moved using the Glyph of Transporter may not be placed adjacent to other figures or on glyphs.
Another idea is having the glyph being able to be destroyed, but if player 1 transported to player 2's start zone and destroyed their transporter first, it could be devastating, so I would only allow a destroyable transporter if you could not transport from one person's start zone to the other.
I do like the possibility of this, and any other Glyphs we create, being able to be destroyed. Maybe a rulesbook thing about if Glyphs take a certain amount of damage, they are destroyed, depending on their size. Tranporters require 2 or 3 wounds, while phasers and weapons require 1.

[SirGalahad]

The problem with destructible equipment glyphs (phaser rifles, for example), is that once they are picked up, how do you destroy them? Or can they only be destroyed while lying free on the battlefield?

Do wounds go first on the equipment before the figure? Or on the figure first, who drops the equipment when destroyed?

Seems awfully messy for equipment glyphs.

Now a transporter glyph is something else. It could be treated as a destructible object (Destructible Glyph?) and have Life and Defense numbers like the Fortress Door because it's not going anywhere.

Unless someone wants to mass-produce a Scape-compatible custom transporter destructible object. :lol:

[mac122]

The problem with destructible equipment glyphs (phaser rifles, for example), is that once they are picked up, how do you destroy them? Or can they only be destroyed while lying free on the battlefield?

Do wounds go first on the equipment before the figure? Or on the figure first, who drops the equipment when destroyed?

Seems awfully messy for equipment glyphs.

Now a transporter glyph is something else. It could be treated as a destructible object (Destructible Glyph?) and have Life and Defense numbers like the Fortress Door because it's not going anywhere.

Unless someone wants to mass-produce a Scape-compatible custom transporter destructible object. :lol:
IMO, either the equipment glyph is destroyed when the figure is destroyed or it is dropped for someone else to pick up. I'd prefer the simple way of removing the glyph from play when the controlling figure is destroyed. Either way is fine with me, though, as long as we explain it. If we say that Kirk dropped the phaser rifle when he was killed, then we'll have to ignore the inconsistency when asked what happened to the hand held phaser he was carrying on his belt (the one that was figured into his base stats)?

Transporter as a destructible object, I like that, seems like I heard that somewhere before...;). I was thinking about painting the symbol side of 6 extra glyphs and attaching them to the top of an extra 7-hex tile painted black to make a transporter pad. AliasQTip also sent me some blank hex files. I don't think it would be difficult to make a paperscape transporter pad to place on a 7-hex piece.

Will we allow squads to use equipment glyphs? I can picture red shirts on an away team being equipped with phaser rifles, but would that require multiple glyphs?

[wulfhunter667]

The problem with destructible equipment glyphs (phaser rifles, for example), is that once they are picked up, how do you destroy them? Or can they only be destroyed while lying free on the battlefield?

Do wounds go first on the equipment before the figure? Or on the figure first, who drops the equipment when destroyed?

Seems awfully messy for equipment glyphs.

Now a transporter glyph is something else. It could be treated as a destructible object (Destructible Glyph?) and have Life and Defense numbers like the Fortress Door because it's not going anywhere.

Unless someone wants to mass-produce a Scape-compatible custom transporter destructible object. :lol:
IMO, either the equipment glyph is destroyed when the figure is destroyed or it is dropped for someone else to pick up. I'd prefer the simple way of removing the glyph from play when the controlling figure is destroyed. Either way is fine with me, though, as long as we explain it. If we say that Kirk dropped the phaser rifle when he was killed, then we'll have to ignore the inconsistency when asked what happened to the hand held phaser he was carrying on his belt (the one that was figured into his base stats)?

Transporter as a destructible object, I like that, seems like I heard that somewhere before...;). I was thinking about painting the symbol side of 6 extra glyphs and attaching them to the top of an extra 7-hex tile painted black to make a transporter pad. AliasQTip also sent me some blank hex files. I don't think it would be difficult to make a paperscape transporter pad to place on a 7-hex piece.

Will we allow squads to use equipment glyphs? I can picture red shirts on an away team being equipped with phaser rifles, but would that require multiple glyphs?
A DO papercraft Transporter could work, in certain scenarios. I say we do both, a DO and a glyph for Transporter. The glyph can be for regular play and the DO for "capture the transporter" scenarios.
As far as destroying equipment, I like Mac's idea. The figure goes, the glyph goes.
And squad figures using an equipment glyph, sure. When he moves, it moves. When he's destroyed, it's destroyed.
Remember, we're not reinventing the wheel here, we're just giving it shiny new rims. ;)

[SirGalahad]

I don't disagree with an equipment glyph coming off the board when the carrying figure is destroyed. I was addressing someone's idea about having the equipment glyphs themselves being the target of attacks.

[wulfhunter667]

I don't disagree with an equipment glyph coming off the board when the carrying figure is destroyed. I was addressing someone's idea about having the equipment glyphs themselves being the target of attacks.
That would be me, but I happily retract that statement and defer to Mac here. DOs and glyphs destroyed when figs are destroyed seems to work and is thematic. I mean, it the figure is vaporized, the equipment is vaproized too, right?

[mac122]

I don't disagree with an equipment glyph coming off the board when the carrying figure is destroyed. I was addressing someone's idea about having the equipment glyphs themselves being the target of attacks.
IMO, portable equipment shouldn't be able to be targeted. It's either dropped or destroyed when the carrying figure goes down. Only large equipment like transporter systems, a warp core containment system, a shuttle, etc should be able to be targeted.
edit: ninja'd!
Yeah, phaser rifle carried by a vaporized Kirk...vaporized. I can see the exception being an artifact or memory core that you are trying to recover in a scenario (capture the flag sort of thing). Those could be dropped and then picked up by another figure.

[dfonse]

I think transporters should go from one to the other Like kurk goes in tansporter 1 and comes out transporter 2. Without this it is more like Beaming

[Felindar]

How do they handle the gliff problem in DnD scape?

They beam from the ship to an empty space all of the time, in the show.

Pete

[lefton4ya]

I think we need some paper-craft transporters. It needs to be a destructible object that you can target and there needs to be a transporter control panel that figures use to transport figures, similar to the castle door controller position. If we ever come out with a MasterSet rulebook like C3G, having this will differentiate ourselves from other projects, and will be awesome both thematically as well as in-game. Of course, it would be optional to use, but we could make a couple Away-Team scenarios with it, and others without it.

My idea is a little console with 3-4 pads next to it, as 0-level height hexes up to the physical height of water/shadow tiles. Papercraft is better as it allows anyone to print and fold to make it, as opposed to making people buy or create them and spend a lot more money or time. You could have the whole think (console and pads) be papercraft, or use glyphs/water tiles as pads as just have papercraft consoles.

[Felindar]

How do they handle the gliff problem in DnD scape?

They beam from the ship to an empty space all of the time, in the show.

Pete

Ok, Tresure gliffs, those that can be caried, are droped when the figure is destroyed. However, only one gliff can be droped in a space so all other gliffs are removed from the game.

Part of me Would like to stay with the established rules. The one out might be that we are thinking {at least I am} of Equipment gliffs, ones you pay extra for and start the game with. I don't know if we want to totaly come up with a new set of rules for what happens when a uniqe character carying a gliff dies, but we are already half way there if we use the Equipment Gliff Concept.

Here is how Doc Savage handeled things Doc's customs (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=377)

Pete

[wulfhunter667]

How do they handle the gliff problem in DnD scape?

They beam from the ship to an empty space all of the time, in the show.

Pete

Ok, Tresure gliffs, those that can be caried, are droped when the figure is destroyed. However, only one gliff can be droped in a space so all other gliffs are removed from the game.

Part of me Would like to stay with the established rules. The one out might be that we are thinking {at least I am} of Equipment gliffs, ones you pay extra for and start the game with. I don't know if we want to totaly come up with a new set of rules for what happens when a uniqe character carying a gliff dies, but we are already half way there if we use the Equipment Gliff Concept.

Here is how Doc Savage handeled things Doc's customs (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=377)

Pete
Might be best to stick with the established rules here.

[Felindar]

Yep I was looking at the carrying gliffs, rules and permanent Gliffs specifically. I think the assumption is you will wind up with more than one. You can also transfer gliffs with the drop and pick up method. It is also, limited to Unique heros. Do we want to all reread the Glyphs rules.

Just saw I have been spelling it wrong and the spell checker has not found it, actually I was going from Glif to Gliff.


We can then vote to see if we take the DnD rules straight.

[pjnormandin]

Yep I was looking at the carrying gliffs, rules and permanent Gliffs specifically. I think the assumption is you will wind up with more than one. You can also transfer gliffs with the drop and pick up method. It is also, limited to Unique heros. Do we want to all reread the Glyphs rules.

Just saw I have been spelling it wrong and the spell checker has not found it, actually I was going from Glif to Gliff.


We can then vote to see if we take the DnD rules straight.


If we want this to be compatable with regular Scape we can't re-write all the rules. It makes sense that we use the dnd rules.

[Felindar]

Where are we with this. Last I checked we were taking about Glyphs
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/Doc_Savage/Heroscape%20Cards/DocWristRadioV2.jpg
that from dock savage.

and transporters. I see gliffs working like this. with a description of what they do and a marker to put on the characters card.

I see a few possibilities for transporters.

1. something you buy for your away team, eliminateable by a scenarios special rules. I think it should not be used in combat, just as a way to place your team where you want and perhaps get an Inish bonus the first round. If you both have them you could write down the location secretly then both beam in.

2. A placeable glyph. This would work for having a transporter room or a single person unit, Those were big in the books, We could have a glyph where you can go in one turn if someone else is running the thing. we might want to have it cost a certain number of your movement.


3 A special power. This would be on an engineers or Transporter Chief's Card. This could take any form we want.

Beam in Beam out if dieing.

Placement as above.

On the beaming around the board. I don't really like this one. most of the time you had to stand still and wait for the transport. Maybe you would get beamed out if you were pined down. I just don't see people getting plucked form one part of the battle field and beamed down someware else, at least not without a big delay, and cost in OMs. Holding still to get transported would progably get you killed.

[wulfhunter667]

Where are we with this. Last I checked we were taking about Glyphs
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/Doc_Savage/Heroscape%20Cards/DocWristRadioV2.jpg
that from dock savage.

and transporters. I see gliffs working like this. with a description of what they do and a marker to put on the characters card.

I see a few possibilities for transporters.

1. something you buy for your away team, eliminateable by a scenarios special rules. I think it should not be used in combat, just as a way to place your team where you want and perhaps get an Inish bonus the first round. If you both have them you could write down the location secretly then both beam in.

2. A placeable glyph. This would work for having a transporter room or a single person unit, Those were big in the books, We could have a glyph where you can go in one turn if someone else is running the thing. we might want to have it cost a certain number of your movement.


3 A special power. This would be on an engineers or Transporter Chief's Card. This could take any form we want.

Beam in Beam out if dieing.

Placement as above.

On the beaming around the board. I don't really like this one. most of the time you had to stand still and wait for the transport. Maybe you would get beamed out if you were pined down. I just don't see people getting plucked form one part of the battle field and beamed down someware else, at least not without a big delay, and cost in OMs. Holding still to get transported would progably get you killed.
I'm not so sure buying glyphs as equipment is the way to go here. It adds an element of fun and further competition to have players jocking for position to get at the equipment glyph. I think that in a campaign scenario, it would be ok to have figures pick up equipment in the first round or two and carry it through the remainer of the game, like in D&DScape though. Just my :2cents:.

[mac122]

When designing our glyphs, we could assign a point value to them so that you could draft them for a scenario but still use them as a glyph on the battlefield. Best of Both Worlds...

[Felindar]

I am viewing it as a way to have one kirk card OK maybe a cool cool kirk and a realy big later movie Kirk card. so we don't need a seperate card for.

Kirk anwoon
http://successco.typepad.com/star_trek_cast/images/2008/07/21/captain_james_t_kirk_.jpg

Kirk Phaser 3
http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/kirk.gif

Regular Kirk
http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~kaz2000/profile.files/TOS/James_T_Kirk.jpg

Kirk with six shooter
http://www.fireflywiki.org/img/Mal23.jpg

Howd that happen


Kirk with cannon
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/c/c2/Gorn_Kirk_cannon.jpg

Kirk with rock

http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/rock%20copy.jpg

Ok I might put that one into more than I needed to know but you see my point. We can add the variety without dooing a bunch of new cards, for every situation.

[Felindar]

When designing our glyphs, we could assign a point value to them so that you could draft them for a scenario but still use them as a glyph on the battlefield. Best of Both Worlds...

Yepy do, Ok I gota log off now I said yepy do.

[wulfhunter667]

http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/rock%20copy.jpg

Am I the only one seriously disturbed by this picture?!?

[pjnormandin]

WHAT is Kirk doing with Spock's ....!!


http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/rock%20copy.jpg

Am I the only one seriously disturbed by this picture?!?

[mac122]

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Misc%20Stuff/graham_chapman_stop_that_silly.jpg
SirG must be away again.

[SirGalahad]

Like a bunch of little kids, I tell ya.:roll:

I would rather not see equipment as items to "purchase" - this isn't an RPG.

Having a few well-crafted equipment glyphs, however, would add to the flavor of the game without detracting from the HeroScapeness.

Any teleportation glyph would have to be well-thought out to prevent everyone getting beamed to extreme height all the time, for example.

Just spitballing:

The effects could be tied to a 20-sided die roll:
1-5, nothing happens;
6-10, beam 1 figure X spaces;
11-15, beam up to 2 figures X spaces
16-20, beam up to 3 figures X spaces

Figures beamed by the Transporter Glyph
must be within clear sight before and after beaming;
may not be beamed adjacent to figures;
and do not take leaving engagement attacks.

[mac122]

Like a bunch of little kids, I tell ya.:roll:

I would rather not see equipment as items to "purchase" - this isn't an RPG.

Having a few well-crafted equipment glyphs, however, would add to the flavor of the game without detracting from the HeroScapeness.

Any teleportation glyph would have to be well-thought out to prevent everyone getting beamed to extreme height all the time, for example.

Just spitballing:

The effects could be tied to a 20-sided die roll:
1-5, nothing happens;
6-10, beam 1 figure X spaces;
11-15, beam up to 2 figures X spaces
16-20, beam up to 3 figures X spaces

Figures beamed by the Transporter Glyph
must be within clear sight before and after beaming;
may not be beamed adjacent to figures;
and do not take leaving engagement attacks.
I agree it's not an RPG, but I don't think assigning a point value would hurt. I think it gives the scenario writers some options. Our Red Shirts will probably be armed with standard phasers. If a scenario calls for a more heavily armed squad, we can equip them.

We probably do need to modify transporters to be a little more Scape-y. If we go the route of a d20 roll, perhaps rolling a 1 results in your atoms being spread across the galaxy.
I still think that most figures should only be able to beam themselves a set distance/height. If they are an engineer, they could either beam a figure further or beam multiple figures. And an engineer with a Communications officer would be able to beam a figure further and/or without clear line of sight. With a d20 roll, the engineer and comm officer maybe add to your roll.

I think we should allow figures to beam into engagement. Perhaps a d20 to see if you get the drop on your opponent or if they get an entering engagement strike against you.

[Felindar]

I don't know about a 5% death rate maybe a 5% failure rate for a found transporter.

Pete

[mac122]

I don't know about a 5% death rate maybe a 5% failure rate for a found transporter.

Pete
That's why I suggested a d20 bonus for engineers. If you don't have a licensed transporter officer, then you take your life in your hands. I think it helps balance the power of a transporter as well. If there is only one in a battle, it could very easily break the game unless there are some potential drawbacks to using it.

[Felindar]

I think we might be over thinking this. They did not beam around during fights that much. It was prety much in and out. a Method of insersion into the combat and maybe a way out. If we want a second glyph then yep strugling to figure it out and use it in the combat might make sence. Lets not loose the most common usage of the transporter though.



http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/rock%20copy.jpg

Am I the only one seriously disturbed by this picture?!?


Maybe that is why Ensin Rand got a transfer.
Pete

[wulfhunter667]

I think we might be over thinking this. They did not beam around during fights that much. It was prety much in and out. a Method of insersion into the combat and maybe a way out. If we want a second glyph then yep strugling to figure it out and use it in the combat might make sence. Lets not loose the most common usage of the transporter though.
You do have a point there. But this is the battle of all time and we are pulling out all the stops. Stragetically speaking, the ability to pull your guys out of the front lines of defense, heal and/or buff them, and send them back is huge. Maybe we should go with the DO version of transporters and leave the Glyph version alone. Maybe something like...
Transporter
Instead of taking a turn with your figure, any figure in control of the Transporter may move up to 3 friendly figures to the Teleport Pads. Any figures moved to the Telepoter Pads must be in clear sight of the figure in control of the Transporter.


http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/rock%20copy.jpg

Am I the only one seriously disturbed by this picture?!?


Maybe that is why Ensin Rand got a transfer.
Pete
See, I wasn't even going to go there. But you when there, got a t-shirt and sent a postcard too. :razz:

[mac122]

No one appreciates a good joke as much as I do...

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Misc%20Stuff/graham_chapman_stop_that_silly.jpg

...now if we just had a good joke...;)

[wulfhunter667]

No one appreciates a good joke as much as I do...

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Misc%20Stuff/graham_chapman_stop_that_silly.jpg

...now if we just had a good joke...;)
Mac, Mac, Mac. You, above everyone else, should realize, you HAVE to have a good sense of humor when dealing with a project like this. So many kitty cats, so few whips. :razz:

[mac122]

No! Don't get them started on whips!

[Felindar]

Wulf were you thinking of a like an army card for a DO you could buy and keep off the battle field, or one you would place on the battle Field?

[wulfhunter667]

No. More along the lines of the DOs in Classic and Marvel. It gets placed in certain scenarios and the players try to take control.

@Mac, sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains... hehehehe :twisted:

[Felindar]

No. More along the lines of the DOs in Classic and Marvel. It gets placed in certain scenarios and the players try to take control.

@Mac, sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains... hehehehe :twisted:


I Will take MORE THAN I NEED TO KNOW FOR 1000 ALEX

http://www.celebritywonder.com/wp/Jeopardy_TV_Walpaper_1_800.jpg

[wulfhunter667]

No. More along the lines of the DOs in Classic and Marvel. It gets placed in certain scenarios and the players try to take control.

@Mac, sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains... hehehehe :twisted:


I Will take MORE THAN I NEED TO KNOW FOR 1000 ALEX

http://www.celebritywonder.com/wp/Jeopardy_TV_Walpaper_1_800.jpg
Now, now. Sticks and stones...

http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/rock%20copy.jpg

Will break my Bones...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090513120046/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/6/66/Leonard_McCoy%2C_2267.jpg/292px-Leonard_McCoy%2C_2267.jpg

But whips...
http://www.bkmarcus.com/blog/images/TV/ferengi-whip.jpg
And chains...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTETmfxh_DDFZT5ZvnciE2bMBhSSQrMU5CxXariXVoBn_bYd0c&t=1&usg=__HRrg3rTT61LnbRLuOf-JRL51aSA=

Make me giggle... (Get your minds out of the gutter. This is a family-oriented website. :razz:)

[SirGalahad]

Move along, nothing to see here.

[wulfhunter667]

I think we might be over thinking this. They did not beam around during fights that much. It was prety much in and out. a Method of insersion into the combat and maybe a way out. If we want a second glyph then yep strugling to figure it out and use it in the combat might make sence. Lets not loose the most common usage of the transporter though.
You do have a point there. But this is the battle of all time and we are pulling out all the stops. Stragetically speaking, the ability to pull your guys out of the front lines of defense, heal and/or buff them, and send them back is huge. Maybe we should go with the DO version of transporters and leave the Glyph version alone. Maybe something like...
Transporter
Instead of taking a turn with your figure, any figure in control of the Transporter may move up to 3 friendly figures to the Teleport Pads. Any figures moved to the Telepoter Pads must be in clear sight of the figure in control of the Transporter.

Sooo... Antics aside. This was my idea from earlier. Comments anyone?

[SirGalahad]

A 7-hex piece could be customized to be the transporter pads for on-ship scenarios.

[Felindar]

Do we want to have in combat transporting, as a power?

Do we want it to be a form of insertion like the Airborne elite?

We will have a transporter room for shipboard battles.

Do we want a Glyph of Transporting? A representation of a single pad transporter.

I think those sum up the questions we need to answer, before we argue mecanics.

They are not exclusive of each other but all of them would be a bit much. The transporter "set" is good as a special on its own.

[mac122]

Here's my 1.5 cents:
Do we want to have in combat transporting, as a power? As a special ability on a figure's card, I'd say no. You have to have the piece of equipment to transport. Now, I do believe that certain classes - engineer, communications, officers, etc. should provide some sort of bonus when using a transporter - these should be in our rules. Not every scenario should use transporters.

Do we want it to be a form of insertion like the Airborne elite? That's a possibility, but I think an AE style Drop might be better suited for a particular scenario. Kirk and Spock are the last line of defense for a helpless people surrounded by Klingons. Scotty is working desperately to find a way through the planetary distortion to get a team of cannon fodder, er Red Shirts to help.

We will have a transporter room for shipboard battles. I think we'll end up creating an Enterprise map that will include the bridge, sickbay, engineering, the transporter room, maybe some crew quarters, etc. The scenarios will determine whether the transporter is a usable piece or just another section of the map.

Do we want a Glyph of Transporting? A representation of a single pad transporter. I think we should develop one and a full transporter room. Get the mechanics down and make them available for use in scenarios.

[pjnormandin]

Good questions Felindar, my thoughts in red.
Do we want to have in combat transporting, as a power?
Like Mac said, this doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Do we want it to be a form of insertion like the Airborne elite?
Still not crazy about this idea either. Would it be for initial placement only? And is it one way? You can get on the battlefield with it but then you're stuck. Or the figures can zip in and out?

We will have a transporter room for shipboard battles.
This I like. As Mac said, a bridge, sickbay, transporter room, hallway, etc, would be really cool.

Do we want a Glyph of Transporting? A representation of a single pad transporter.
I like the glyph of transporting much better than a power on an army card but maybe a little less than than I like a usable DO. DO>glyph>>power.

I think those sum up the questions we need to answer, before we argue mecanics.

They are not exclusive of each other but all of them would be a bit much. The transporter "set" is good as a special on its own.

[Felindar]

I am planing a printable glyph page here is the first.

http://home.comcast.net/~felindar/Trek/Glyph%20of%20transporter.jpg

Just print that bad boy out at 2.5 inches and it will be the same sise as a glyph cut fold and paste. What do you think of the design? On second thought lets keep that descusion in the art thread.

[lefton4ya]

Great glyphs. Did anyone take my idea for a paper-craft transporter console seriously? again, this would be where you have to stand behind her to transport someone (unless you have site-to-sight power) which I think it would be good, but I could see why it could work good other ways that have been suggested too.

[mac122]

Great glyphs. Did anyone take my idea for a paper-craft transporter console seriously? again, this would be where you have to stand behind her to transport someone (unless you have site-to-sight power) which I think it would be good, but I could see why it could work good other ways that have been suggested too.
Papercraft transporter console would fit nicely into an Enterprise map and others. A 7-hex piece for the pad (SirG and others?) and you're ready.

[Felindar]

One thing at a time We It should be relativly easy. I just found a shot of the empty transporter platform.

Pete

[SirGalahad]

Taking the wife on a well-deserved weekend away, so I will be off the boards from tomorrow afternoon through probably late Sunday night.

Try not to break anything, will ya?

[wulfhunter667]

QUICK! SirG is leaving for the weekend. You know what that means?!?

TREK PARTY!!!
http://www.forumsextreme.com/images/Funny_Pictures_Animated_Star_Trek_Cast_Night_Out.gif:twisted:

[mac122]

QUICK! SirG is leaving for the weekend. You know what that means?!?

TREK PARTY!!!
http://www.forumsextreme.com/images/Funny_Pictures_Animated_Star_Trek_Cast_Night_Out.gif:twisted:

OK, you can have a few people over. Don't play the music too loud, keep the Tribbles out of the grain, blah blah blah. Just don't make me post this guy again:
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Misc%20Stuff/graham_chapman_stop_that_silly.jpg

[wulfhunter667]

QUICK! SirG is leaving for the weekend. You know what that means?!?

TREK PARTY!!!
http://www.forumsextreme.com/images/Funny_Pictures_Animated_Star_Trek_Cast_Night_Out.gif:twisted:

OK, you can have a few people over. Don't play the music too loud, keep the Tribbles out of the grain, blah blah blah. Just don't make me post this guy again:
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/mac12264/Misc%20Stuff/graham_chapman_stop_that_silly.jpg
So, I guess something like this...

http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/529200841900PM_c1264b43e8.jpg

...is right out then, huh?

[Felindar]

Lets not party too hard.

http://www.trekp.com/posters/gw026-scotch.jpg

[wulfhunter667]

Ok, playing aside, dunno why I didn't think of this before, but I made a Teleporter Pad custom glyph for SuperScape a while back. What do you think of this for the Transporter text?
Transporter
Any figure may use this glyph before moving. Instead of moving normally, any figure may use the Teleporter Pad. Roll a 20-sided die. If you roll 1-4, nothing happens. If you roll 5-8, place this figure on any unoccupied space within 6 spaces of this glyph. If you roll 9-15, place this figure on any unoccupied space within 9 spaces of this glyph. If you roll 16-19, place this figure on any unoccupied space within 12 spaces of this glyph. If you roll a 20, destroy the figure.
I reversed the bad effect on purpose for my custom, but we could rereverse it for this. Just an idea to show you all that, even though fun and giggles are nice, we do still have work to do.

So get to work or Spock will pinch you. :razz:
http://hot4spock.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dagger1.png?w=404&h=442

[pjnormandin]

Ok, playing aside, dunno why I didn't think of this before, but I made a Teleporter Pad custom glyph for SuperScape a while back. What do you think of this for the Transporter text?
Transporter
Any figure may use this glyph before moving. Instead of moving normally, any figure may use the Teleporter Pad. Roll a 20-sided die. If you roll 1-4, nothing happens. If you roll 5-8, place this figure on any unoccupied space within 6 spaces of this glyph. If you roll 9-15, place this figure on any unoccupied space within 9 spaces of this glyph. If you roll 16-19, place this figure on any unoccupied space within 12 spaces of this glyph. If you roll a 20, destroy the figure.
I reversed the bad effect on purpose for my custom, but we could rereverse it for this.


Do you mean any figure standing on the glyph can teleport or if you have a figure on the glyph you can teleport any figure you've got?

[wulfhunter667]

I know I was trying to be semi-serious here earlier, but I just can't help it. I HAD to share this.

http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/gallery/3shirt/06.jpg

[pjnormandin]

No, you didn't have to share this. It was not a requirement. You wanted to show off your shadow puppet!

I know I was trying to be semi-serious here earlier, but I just can't help it. I HAD to share this.

http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/gallery/3shirt/06.jpg

[pjnormandin]

Oddly enough, one of the special abilities on the custom Spock I made WAS Shadow Puppetry! If Spock is on a shadow space a non-adjacent opponent must roll a 14+ to target him, otherwise the attack is wasted on Spock's shadow Mastiff.

No, you didn't have to share this. It was not a requirement. You wanted to show off your shadow puppet!

I know I was trying to be semi-serious here earlier, but I just can't help it. I HAD to share this.

http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/gallery/3shirt/06.jpg

[Felindar]

I don't remember but I think we partyed to hard

The scary shot on my phone (http://api.ning.com/files/W8kIit*I7mpuyj5Teq-*BSupSW*Rvjd1Rxm8JSIq38tkOlMc9*a5HbZTahclXb-6Xsu-V*FrgBQPQQyXGJM5f5Tjt47hrGsx/tng_beegees.jpg)

[wulfhunter667]

I don't remember but I think we partyed to hard

The scary shot on my phone (http://api.ning.com/files/W8kIit*I7mpuyj5Teq-*BSupSW*Rvjd1Rxm8JSIq38tkOlMc9*a5HbZTahclXb-6Xsu-V*FrgBQPQQyXGJM5f5Tjt47hrGsx/tng_beegees.jpg)
:shock: WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! That's just wrong. :rofl:

[mac122]

I thought Felindar was going to be gone for a couple days. Obviously someone has hacked into his Heroscaper's account and uploaded that disturbing photo. I know Felindar would never do such a thing.

[SirGalahad]

And in MY thread on top of that. ;)

[SirGalahad]

Now that GenCon is in the rearview mirror, maybe we can get this thread active and back on track.

Transporter -

As a Glyph
1) figure on Glyph could transport self immediately - similar to C3G's Boom Tube (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=998887#post998887)
2) figure on Glyph could transport self on 20-sided die roll (distance based on roll, some wound possibility?)
3) figure on Glyph could transport X others within Y spaces of Glyph each Z spaces based on 20-sided die roll.

I think any Engineer modification of the 20-sided die roll would have to be specified on the Engineer's card, a la Darrak Ambershard, since the Glyphs themselves don't give any roll modifications to specific species, classes, or personalities.

As a Transporter Pad destructible object
1) it would need a designated "control" hex, similar to the Fortress Door, or at least an indication on the pad which adjacent hex is the control hex
2) high defense and life (maybe 7 - one for each hex, with maximum number of transportees limited to the number of remaining lives). If the pad has 4 wounds, only 3 figures can be transported, for example.

If we go this route, it has to be easy to customize, because we don't want people avoiding using it because it's too complicated to make.

The ability to transport multiple figures is really powerful unless the distance is limited. On the flip side, if you clump together to use the transporter, you're more vulnerable to area attacks.

[wulfhunter667]

As far as the Transporter Pad is concerned, I am in favor of the DO option. For this, I see a papercraft 7-space pad with 6 pads to it with a control panel beside it. I had originally thought, "Well, why the heck do we need a 7-space pad? All the fig would get killed." And then I thought, "You know what, that would be an excellent scenario." The idea behind it would be simple. Gain control of the Transporter Pad, get all your figs on the Pad and beam out as the victory condition for the scenario. The pad could also be used in various other scenarios to a means of getting figs across the battlefield. Or even a scenario where multiple battlefields get set up and the objective is to Transport figs from one battlefield to the other to do something and Transport back. First one to successfully go to the other battlefield, complete the objective and beam back wins. Just some spitballed ideas to get the ball rolling here. ;)

[SirGalahad]

I don't know of any reason why we couldn't design both the glyph and the DO. We'd probably want to specify that you couldn't use both on the same battlefield.

Imagine taking a turn with your hero who bonds with Engineer on the DO pad who transports the hero to the Transporter Glyph who moves further to attack an opponent ridiculously far away.

[Felindar]

I vote for both. I would recomend a general rule that the Big Room sised pad only be used for inside / shipboard battles. In the Origional Series. They did not do intra ship beaming. They said it was too difficult. Why it was harder to beam to another part of a ship that you have micromeatered design specs than to an alien planet, from orbit, I wll never know. But they did not Beam around in a ship. Just a factoid.

Pete

[SirGalahad]

Not much activity in the past two weeks. Let's just focus on the Glyph aspect for now. Vote for your preference as to how a Transporter Glyph should work:

A -- the figure on the Glyph could transport self immediately - similar to C3G's Boom Tube (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=998887#post998887)

B -- the figure on the Glyph could transport self on 20-sided die roll (distance based on roll, some wound possibility?)

C -- the figure on the Glyph could transport X others (possibly only figures adjacent to each other) within Y spaces of the Glyph each Z spaces based on 20-sided die roll

D -- other, please specify

[pjnormandin]

Guess I tried to ask too much in one post. *OUCH* . Let's just focus on the Glyph aspect for now. Vote for your preference as to how a Transporter Glyph should work:

A -- the figure on the Glyph could transport self immediately - similar to C3G's Boom Tube (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=998887#post998887)

B -- the figure on the Glyph could transport self on 20-sided die roll (distance based on roll, some wound possibility?)

C -- the figure on the Glyph could transport X others (possibly only figures adjacent to each other) within Y spaces of the Glyph each Z spaces based on 20-sided die roll

D -- other, please specify

I like option C. Are X Y and Z all going to based on twenty-sided die rolls?
That is too much twenty-sider rolling. If it was like 3 people maximum within 4 spaces being transported 8 spaces, that would be cool. X Y and Z is too much higher math for me.

[SirGalahad]

The X, Y and Z would be static numbers and not determined by the 20-sided die. Right now the letters are just place holders so we can discuss how many, from how far away, and to how far away.

No higher math involved. ;)

And I wasn't trying to offend anyone. It's just been two weeks without much in the way of input.

[pjnormandin]

Good, math is not my friend. The numbers should be boostable if the glyph holder is an "engineer" class character. (Geordi or Scotty or Chief O'Brien, etc.)

[mac122]

For the glyph, I'd prefer Option B with a 20-sided die roll that would include the possibility of wounding on a low roll. Engineers would get a boost to their roll to eliminate (or at least minimize) the chance of injury.

Something like this:
Roll 1-3 - No transport and figure receives a wound.
Roll 4-17 - May transport up to 10 spaces away
Roll 18-20 - May transport up to 15 spaces away

Engineers may add 2 (or 3) to their roll.

Or we could just use this formula:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/xiankai/school/equations.jpg

[SirGalahad]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/xiankai/school/equations.jpg

Yea for calculus!!!

Simpler Math:

1 B
1 C

[pjnormandin]

The X, Y and Z would be static numbers and not determined by the 20-sided die. Right now the letters are just place holders so we can discuss how many, from how far away, and to how far away.

No higher math involved. ;)

And I wasn't trying to offend anyone. It's just been two weeks without much in the way of input.


It Seems like all the Star Trek threads have been pretty dead lately.

[wulfhunter667]

I'm gonna have to go with C here. Seems more Trekkish to me.
Simpler Math:

1 B
2 C

[Felindar]

Were we supost to vote here or with a reply to the mesage?

[mac122]

I'm gonna have to go with C here. Seems more Trekkish to me.
Simpler Math:

1 B
2 C
In a way I agree with you, but it sounds more like the full blown transporter pad we've talked about. I see the glyph more like the armband personal transporters from TNG or the only spot on the battlefield where the ship can get a transporter lock.

[wulfhunter667]

I'm gonna have to go with C here. Seems more Trekkish to me.
Simpler Math:

1 B
2 C
In a way I agree with you, but it sounds more like the full blown transporter pad we've talked about. I see the glyph more like the armband personal transporters from TNG or the only spot on the battlefield where the ship can get a transporter lock.
Which is exactly why I chose the one I chose. The armband Transporters, as you will remember, were not actually Transporters, but instead were a way to remotely access Transporter cpntrols. Remember "Best of Both Worlds" when Data and Worf use the armbands? Those were not the Transpoters themselves, but rather the means to access the controls on the shuttle and provide the controls a signal lock.
This does bring up a good point though. We could do an armband Glyph that allows the user to Transport to the nearest Transporter Glyph as a one-shot item/Glyph.

[Felindar]

The X, Y and Z would be static numbers and not determined by the 20-sided die. Right now the letters are just place holders so we can discuss how many, from how far away, and to how far away.

No higher math involved. ;)

And I wasn't trying to offend anyone. It's just been two weeks without much in the way of input.


It Seems like all the Star Trek threads have been pretty dead lately.


Gen-Con Back to school Working to pay for school. I can't imagine why things took a slowdown.

[lefton4ya]

My Vote:

C -- the figure on the Glyph could transport X others (possibly only figures adjacent to each other) within Y spaces of the Glyph each Z spaces based on 20-sided die roll (X, Y, and Z would be fixed numbers)

But I could go with A like boom tube. I would like two separate glyphs - one the controller and another the pad, that you must either go from land to glyph pad, or glyph pad to elsewhere when someone is on controller glyph. Engineers could have "site-to-site transport" ability though. This might be too complicated, however, so won glyph as A or C is easier and better.

[Balantai]

I thought you guys might like to see this (http://www.heroclixworld.com/HCW/Articles.aspx?ID=169A&P=2).

[lefton4ya]

I thought you guys might like to see this (http://www.heroclixworld.com/HCW/Articles.aspx?ID=169A&P=2).
Star Trek: Expeditions (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/79131/star-trek-expeditions)
http://www.heroclixworld.com/HCW/images_html/Articles/SPOILERS/StarTrek/ST.jpg
Now this gets me exited to make some customs again so cards are ready when figs are released. Only 4 figures to start with: Spock, Kirk, McCoy, Uhura