The Book of HYDRA Agents

[Hahma]

The Book of HYDRA Agents

C3G MARVEL WAVE 4
FIGHT AGAINST FEAR

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_HydraAgents_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_HydraAgents_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_HydraAgents_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_HydraAgents_mini.pdf)

The figures used for this unit are Heroclix figures from the Infinity Challenge set.
Their model numbers and name are #007-009 / Hydra Operative.
_______________________________________________________________

Character Bio - HYDRA is a worldwide criminal organization that uses terrorist and subversive activities in their attempt to achieve world domination. HYDRA is funded by the recovered Nazi treasure from World War II that Baron Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628) escaped with from Nazi Germany with the help of Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34730). They are also funded by the gains of the original leaders of the Japanese secret society that became HYDRA. HYDRA Agents are subject to background checks and are sworn to a death-oath. They are trained in hand to hand combat and are supplied with state of the art weapons.
_______________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A_______________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As Terrorists, HYDRA Agents may be moved by Baron von Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628)'s Intelligence Network special power.
As Terrorists, if Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847) has destroyed an opponent's figure this round, HYDRA Agents add 1 to their attack for the remainder of the round due to her Lead By Example special power.Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
Ruthless Mastermind Bonding offers a turn to a Ruthless Mastermind after your turn with HYDRA Agents. Marvel Ruthless Masterminds include: Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9710)C3G:
Ruthless Mastermind Bonding offers a turn to a Ruthless Mastermind after your turn with HYDRA Agents. C3G Ruthless Masterminds include: Baron von Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628), Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847), and Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34730).
As Humans, HYDRA Agents allow adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.
As Terrorists, HYDRA Agents may receive wounds instead of Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847) due to her Necessary Sacrifices special power.________________________________________________________________ _

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Initial Playtest: Hahma (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1128332&postcount=3)
Second Playtest: SirGalahad (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1155181&postcount=84)
Third Playtest: Ticklepickle (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1160485&postcount=90)

[Hahma]

Human
Common Squad
Terrorists
Fanatical
Medium 5

1 Life
Move 5
Range 6
Attack 2
Defese 2
80 Points

RUTHLESS MASTERMIND BONDING
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and after taking a turn with HYDRA Agents, you may take a turn with any Ruthless Mastermind you control.

IMMORTAL HYDRA
After the first HYDRA Agent you control is destroyed during a player's turn, add 1 to the defense of all remaining HYDRA Agents you control for the remainder of that player's turn.

6/30 - HYDRA Agents thread started in order to get them run through the process in order to finish Madame Hydra.

7/1 - Preliminary Playtest begun.

7/3 - Army Test 1 added to test sheet.

7/4 - Hail HYDRA changed to Immortal HYDRA after great suggestion from Bats.

7/15 - HYDRA Agents sent to Sir Galahad and Adam Souza for playtesting. Sir G brought of a possible clarity issue for "turns" in Immortal Hydra and I added "player's" in two places to help with the clarity of the power.

[Hahma]

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT HYDRA Agents @ 60 points

C3G CHECK LIST FEEDBACK FORM
- Theme/ Does it pass. Pass
- Mirror/ Does it pass,. Pass
- Bonding/ Does it pass. Pass (not really good bonding unit)
- Synergy/ Does it pass?. Pass (don’t know yet)
- Power/ Does it pass?,. Pass
- Fun Test/ Does it pass? Pass
- Fun Competitive Test/ Does it pass? Pass
- Drafting Test/ Does it pass? Pass (Will need Ruthless Mastermind)
- Usage Test/ Does it pass? Pass
- Strategy Test/Does it pass? Pass
C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
(Be sure to list what official units you used and what BoV map you used per section below.)
-
Heavy Hitter/ Does it pass?
Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map.

HYDRA Agents x 1 (60)

Vs. Zetacron (60) Zetacron wins with 1 wound on T1R2
Vs. Johnny Shotgun (65) Johnny wins with 4 wounds on T2R2.

HYDRA Agents x 2 (120)

Vs. Agent Skahen (120) Skahen wins with 2 wounds on T4R2
Vs. Mogrimm Forgehammer (120) Mogrimm wins with 5 wounds on T6R3.

HYDRA Agents x 3 (180)

Vs. Punisher @(180) Punisher wins with 3 wounds on T6R2.
Vs. Jean Grey @ (180) Jean wins with 3 wounds on T1R3.

Thus far, it’s evident that they aren’t worth their points w/o bonding use. Also, Skahen was tough because of Agility, though her double attack allowed the use of Hail Hydra for second attack. Mogrimm was tough because of Tough and his auto shield vs. mostly attacks of 2 or sometimes attacks of 3 with height. They had to roll at least 2 skulls and hope he whiffed with his 2 def dice to chip away at him.

Punisher had height most of the time and rained down some heat with his Assault Rifle. He made sure that the others got +1 defense for the rest of the turn after he killed the first Agent every time. Even with their defense up to 3, they are vulnerable to multiple attacks, at the 180 point range, that's what they'll face often.

I figured Punisher was kind of a rough test for them, so I tired Jean Grey who has a shorter ranged normal attack and an occasional Throw attack. She got a couple Throw kills, but had height often and her normal attack was pretty accurate. The Agents had some opportunities with two of them having height on her for a couple turns worth of attacks, but they couldn't take advantage of the bump to attack of 3.

Squad/ Does it pass? Pass
Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map

Hydra Agents x 2 (120) vs. Arrow Gruts x 3 (120)

Game 1. Arrow Gruts won with 4 left on T4R2.
Game 2. Hydra Agents won with 3 left on T5R2.

I had them go against Arrow Gruts because they were a ranged unit with bonding they couldn’t use, so they’d be even in that regard. They didn’t need their Disengage power, though Hydra Agents did use Hail Hydra.

Game 1 saw Arrow Gruts take advantage of their speed to gain height and that helped some of them to be even attack and defense vs. the Agents. Their numbers helped as the Hydra Agents weak attack didn’t ensure auto kills whenever attacking the lowly Arrow Gruts.

Game 2 saw the opposite in that due to initiative rolls the Hydra Agents were able to reach height point and destroy first wave of Gruts there and then maintain height for much of the game. Arrow Gruts did what they could, but their low attack and defense wasn’t helping them at this point and neither was their speed.



Army Test 1/ Does it pass?. Inconclusive as they didn’t have need to get activated until the end, but they died pretty good in the meantime. Not much of a threat.

Played on Platforms 5 and 6 map

Red Skull (190) Agent Skahen (120) Hydra Agents x 2 (120) Wyvern (100) Theracus (40) and Guilty (30) for 600 points.

Vs.

Thugs x 2 (150) Black Mask (100) Nightcrawler (140) Pyro (120) and Angel (90) for 600 points

R1 – Red Skull sends Theracus to Carry Skahen onto platform. Angel Carries Pyro onto platform. Red Skull sends Theracus back down adjacent to Guilty. Nightcrawler Bamfs full amount w/o attacking to get near ladder of central structure. Red Skull has Theracus Carry Guilty onto platform. Black Mask and Thugs advance.

R2 – RS sends Theracus to Carry Guilty onto central structure. Angel Carries Pyro onto central structure and Angel attacks Guilty but misses. RS has Wyvern move onto platform adjacent to Skahen (he could have had Guilty or Theracus attack Angel or Pyro, but with their low attacks, they wouldn’t kill either one and Angel would use Guardian Angel to get Pyro closer to Red Skull’s starting zone). Pyro uses Engulf to put 1 wound on Theracus and then attacks with Living Flame, putting another wound on Theracus and missing Guilty. RS now has Guilty attack Pyro but Guilty whiffs on both attacks. Angel uses GA to move Pyro to top of ladder of C.S. Nightcrawler Bamf’s to attack Theracus and misses then Bamfs again to attack Guilty and kills him with a 3/0 attack and then puts last wound on Theracus with a 3/2 attack.

R3 – RS has Wyvern fly over Pyro and bring him down to a lower space and >3 spaces from Angel and attacks Pyro for 1 wound. Pyro misses with Engulf, then leaves engagement from the Wyvern for 0 wounds and then moves to use Living Flame vs. Red Skull and 3 Hydra Agents. He puts 1 wound on RS and kills 2 Hydra Agents (Hail Hydra didn’t help). Red Skull has Skahen move and attack twice with height vs. Pyro and she puts 2 wounds on him. Pyro moves and uses Living Flame again to attack 3 other Hydra Agents and kills 1 (HH helped 3rd Hydra Agent to get 2 shields to block attack). Red Skull has Skahen attack Pyro and she kills him with the first attack and misses Angel with her second attack but he was able to use Guardian Angel to move away and adjacent to Nightcrawler. Angel Carries Nightcrawler to platform that Skahen is on.

R4 – Nightcrawler Bamfs to attack Skahen for 1 wound, then Bamfs to kill a Hydra Agent and then Bamfs again to attack and kill Skahen. Hydra Agents move and attack Nightcrawler who has height ,but a lucky 2 skull vs missed Evade and whiff defense puts 2 wounds on Nightcrawler, but the other attack misses. Red Skull use RM to bond and take his turn and misses with Dust of Death vs. Nightcrawler and then misses with normal attack. Nightcrawler Bamfs to attack and miss RS, then Bamfs and kills a Hydra Agent and then Bamfs and kills last Hydra Agent. Red Skull has Wyvern pick up Nightcrawler and take him lower to attack and kill him. Black Mask moves and Thugs move. RS has Wyvern pick up Angel and carry him and attack for 1 wound but he uses GA to move away.

R5 – Black Mask moves and attacks with height vs. Wyvern for 1 wound. Thugs move adjacent to BM and attack with height vs. Wyvern for 1 wound, then a missed attack for a dead Thug by BM’s hands, then 1 attacks Red Skull for 1 wound. Red Skull has Wyvern pick up Thug and take him away for an attack but missed with a 1/1 attack. Black Mask moves and attack RS but misses. 1 Thug attacks Wyvern and misses and 2 Thugs are adjacent again to BM and attack with height vs. Red Skull and first Thug puts 2 wounds on him and next Thug finishes off Red Skull. RS dead, so no turn. Black Mask moves and attacks the Wyvern for 1 wound. Thugs move and only 1 is adjacent to BM, so when they all miss the Wyvern, only 1 gets killed by Black Mask. RS dead so no turn.

R6 – Wyvern attacks and misses Thug again with 1/1 attack. Black Mask misses attack on Wyvern but a Thug is able to finish the Wyvern off.

Black Mask with 0 wounds, Angel with 1 wound and 6 Thugs remain to win on T2 R6. The 6 Hydra Agents only managed to put 2 wounds on Nightcrawler with a lucky attack, and they all died pretty easily to Pyro’s Living Flame attack and Nightcrawler’s Barrage attack.

Considering Red Skull’s cost is heavily due to his OM management for Unique Heroes, it didn’t make sense for most of the game to have Hydra Agents use OM to activate Red Skull. Kind of a Catch-22 in this case where the bonding unit would be better off not bonding and have the OM on them, kind of like bonding with Joker where he couldn’t use Reorganized Chaos, it just isn’t worth it unless it’s at the end of the game.

It didn’t help that opponent had Angel to mess up normal attack attempts from Red Skull’s whole army, yet opponent had means to bypass Skahen’s defense Opponent’s with multi-attacks are going to chew Hydra Agents up.




Army Test 2/ Does it pass?.
Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map

Red Skull (190) HYDRA Agents x 3 (180) Punisher (180) Spiderman (160) and Angel (90) for 800 points.

Vs.

Cyclops (190) Jean Grey (180) Mystique (165) Iceman (150) Toad (95) and Marcu (20) for 800 points.

R1 – Toad moves out. Red Skull sends Angel to Carry Punisher to a 2 level height. Cyclops takes OM 3 off Mystique’s card and puts it on Toad’s and has Iceman move 4 spaces. Red Skull has Angel Carry Punisher to higher ground near Toad and Angel attacks with height vs. Toad but misses. Toad Stealth Leaps to height and Tongue Lashes Angel to lower ground closer to Toad’s SZ and then attacks adjacent Punisher with Caustic Phlem but whiffs. HYDRA Agents move and attack Toad with height and miss. Red Skull uses Ruthless Mastermind to move and attack Toad but he misses too.

R2 – Red Skull moves Angel 2 level height to be out of Cyc’s normal attack range and out of LOS for Optic Blast as well as being within 3 spaces of Punisher, RS and 3 Hydra Agents. Cyclops had wanted to hit Angel with Optic Blast S.A. but now moves a few spaces and has Jean Grey take a turn and she moves, fails to Throw Punisher and misses him with her normal attack. Red Skull has Punisher attack with height vs. JG with his Assault Rifle and he kills her. Cyclops moves OM from Iceman to Toad and attacks Angel from 8 spaces with his normal attack but his 3 skulls are blocked and Angel moves to height with Guardian Angel. HYDRA Agents move and 1 attacks with height vs. Toad and puts 1 wound on him, and 1 can attack Cyclops but misses. Red Skull uses RM to move and attack Toad but misses. Toad fails Tongue Lash vs. Punisher but can’t reach him now with CP, so he attacks and kills nearby HYDRA Agent.

R3 – Cyclops puts OM 3 from Mystique’s card to Iceman’s and moves I.M. 4 spaces, then Cyclops misses a HYDRA Agent with a 2/2 attack. HYDRA Agents move and 1 misses Toad, 1 attacks with height vs. Iceman and misses and 1 misses Cyclops. Red Skull uses RM to attack Toad with height with a 4 skull attack but Toad matches that with 4 shields. Toad misses Tongue Lashing Angel, but kills another HYDRA Agent with Caustic Phlem. Red Skull has Spiderman move and attack Toad with Web attack but he misses. Iceman Slides adjacent to HYDRA Agent and kills him with Deep Freeze. Red Skull has Punisher attack Toad with Rocket attack but Punisher only manages 1 skull which is easily blocked.

R4 – HYDRA Agents move and 2 attack and miss Toad, but one puts a lucky wound on Iceman after I.M. whiffed vs. a 1 skull attack. Red Skull uses RM to attack and put 1 wound on Toad. Iceman attacks an adjacent HYDRA Agent and kills him. Red Skull has Punisher attack Toad with height with his Rocket and he rolls 3 skulls, but Toad rolls 2 shields with the 2 defense dice he’s allowed to roll and takes only 1 wound. Cyclops takes OM 3 off Toad’s card to put on Mystique and moves Toad out of LOS of RS, Punisher and HA’s. Then Cyclops attacks RS with height from 8 spaces but his 3 skull attack is blocked by 3 shields from RS. Angel stays put with GA. Red Skull has Punisher attack Iceman with his Assault Rifle, but he misses. Mystique moves and misses an attack vs. a HYDRA Agent with a 1/1 attack.

R5 – Mystique moves adjacent to a HYDRA Agent and attacks Red Skull for 2 wounds. Angel uses GA to carry RS further away. HYDRA Agents move and 1 misses Mystique with an attack and another one misses Toad with an attack. Red Skull moves and misses DOD vs. Toad but attacks normally with height for a 4/0 attack that puts Toad down. Iceman moves to height and attacks Punisher with Deep Freeze with a 4/0 attack that puts Punisher 1 wound away from death. Red Skull has Punisher attack Iceman with the Rocket for 1 wound. Cyclops moves and attacks Angel with Optic Blast for 2 wounds. RS has Spidey move adjacent to Iceman but he whiffs the attack.

R6- Cyclops attacks Angel again with Optic Blast and kills him. HYDRA Agents move and 1 already adjacent to Mystique puts 1 wound on her, 1 misses Iceman and 1 misses Cyclops. Red Skull stays put on height and hidden from Cyc and attacks Iceman for 1 wound. Iceman attacks the adjacent Spidey but Spidey Sense kicks in avoid the attack. RS has Punisher attack Iceman with the Rocket attack and he kills him. Mystique misses Punisher with a 1/1 attack. RS has Spidey engage Mystique (b/c she’s adjacent to Hydra Agent) and Spidey takes no wound but misses with a 2/2 attack.

R7 – Mystique moves to height (still being adjacent to HA) and attacks Spidey for 1 wound. RS has Spidey engage Mystique again but he takes 1 wound from ES and misses her with another weak attack. Mystique leaves engagement with Spidey and attacks and misses Punisher. RS has Spidey engage Mystique again for another ES wound and he misses again with a 1 skull attack. Cyclops moves and attacks Spidey but misses. HYDRA Agents move and 1 engages Mystique and dies with ES 19, 1 that’s already engaged to her (forever now) whiffs an attack on her and another one that has height over Cyclops puts 1 wound on him. Red Skull stays put.

R8 – Mystique leaves engagement with Spidey while staying adjacent to the 1 HA and attacks but misses Punisher. HYDRA Agent leaves engagement from Mystique for no wound and that one and another one miss her with attacks, while the third HA with height misses Cyclops. Red Skull stays put. Mystique moves to height and kills Punisher. Red Skull has Spidey engage Mystique again and he doesn’t take a ES wound, but he rolls another crappy 1 skull attack to miss her again. Cyclops attacks Spidey with Optic Blast but SS kicks in to avoid the attack. RS has the already engaged Spidey attack and miss Mystique yet again.

R9 – Mystique attacks with height vs a HA but misses with a 1/1 attack.. 3 HYDRA Agents move and attack Cyclops with height to put 2 wounds on him with one lucky 2/0 attackRed Skull moves and misses with DOD vs. Marcu but attacks normally for 1 wound. Cyclops kills a HYDRA Agent. HYDRA Agents move and miss Cyclops with 2 attacks. Red Skull misses Marcu. Cyc puts 1 wound on Red Skull. Red Skull moves around ruin to be able to see Spidey again.

R10 – RS has Spidey swing away from Mystique to get adjacent to Cyclops but whiffs on the attack (Spidey has rolled the worst attack dice ever in this game). Mystique moves adjacent to a HA and attacks Red Skull to kill him with a 4/2 attack. Red Skull dead no turn. Cyclops kills Spidey with a 4/1 Optic Blast attack after Spidey misses SS. HYDRA Agents move and miss Mystique with an attack and put 1 wound on Marcu. Marcu kills a HA.

R11 – HA move and attack Marcu for 1 wound and miss Mystique. Mystique moves to height but whiffs attack on HA. HA move and whiff attack on Cyclops and miss Marcu. Mystique does her Spidey imitation and rolls another crappy attack of 1/1 w/ht vs. HA. HYDRA Agents miss Cyclops but put 1 wound on Marcu. Mystique kills a HA.

R12 – Mystique kills the last HYDRA Agent.

Cyclops with 3 wounds, Marcu with 4 wounds and Mystique with 1 wounds survive for the victory.

HYDRA Agents did better this game as the map was more spread out and I could take advantage of RM bonding better to move Red Skull around. Though, the biggest thing for the early part of the game was having Angel around to help Red Skull stay alive and get into better position with GA. Angel also helped Punisher. So some of the RM bonding was certainly aided early on by having Angel at Red Skull’s side.

The good news, if my count is right, is that the HYDRA Agents put 3 wounds on Marcu, 3 wounds on Cyclops, 1 wound on Mystique, 1 wound on Iceman and 1 wound on Toad and bonding allowed RS to put last wound on Toad. While this seems impressive, they still lost, though not as bad as Army Test 1. Also, the Mutant army didn’t have squads to get multiple attacks and they didn’t have heroes with multiple attacks or explosive type attacks. The closest thing they really had to that is Jean Grey with a Throw/Normal attack but the Throw requires luck as well as the wound for it and she died early on. Cyclops has his Optic Blast to get multiples, but it’s really hard to pull off a lot of the time and can often put Cyc in a vulnerable position afterward. So really, the RS/HA team did pretty well and could have done better if Spidey had shown up to play, but then again, they could have gotten slaughtered had there been multi attackers on the other team via either squads or unique heroes. Also, their one power besides bonding doesn’t work if opponent only attacks one at a time.

Right now, at 60 points, they are 20 points apiece and more expensive per figure than Thugs who also have bonding and a power that is automatic on certain terrain. So I would be hesitant to have the HYDRA Agents any higher than 60 points at this point.

[Hahma]

First post updated with link to preliminary playtest sheet.

[NecroBlade]

They're looking pretty good so far. I think Bonding might bump them close to 70. They didn't win a single HH test, but ALL opponents were left with 1 Life. Technically, if Johnny Shotgunned a group of terrorists, killing one would also trigger Hail Hydra. Other than that, those were somewhat tough matchups (having to pin Skahen down, no Hail Hydra vs Zeta or Mogrimm [not to mention his tough]) and they still look like they performed well (a lot to be said for squadscape, I'm sure).

[Hahma]

They're looking pretty good so far. I think Bonding might bump them close to 70. They didn't win a single HH test, but ALL opponents were left with 1 Life. Technically, if Johnny Shotgunned a group of terrorists, killing one would also trigger Hail Hydra. Other than that, those were somewhat tough matchups (having to pin Skahen down, no Hail Hydra vs Zeta or Mogrimm [not to mention his tough]) and they still look like they performed well (a lot to be said for squadscape, I'm sure).



I added 2 more HH tests.

Thanks for the input Necro, it's appreciated. I agree that they did fairly well considering they didn't get to use their major power of bonding. The thing about Hail Hydra, is that it takes one of them getting destroyed to get it to kick in and it's only for that turn, so not so good that someone has to die to get it to work and not useful when going against single attack opponent's. Though you are right in that it can help others after the first one dies in a shotgun blast or any other area of affect attack, as well vs other squads. The thing is, that for 75 points, Thugs have bonding too, but they get a 4th member and get a +1 to attack and defense on concrete or asphalt. They do have 1 less range but that extra attacker is nice. So I can see the Hydra Agents going up to 65, and 70 if they are awesome when they bond. Though when they bond with Madame Hydra, the higher priced the Hydra Agents are, the more it will suck to use Necessary Sacrifices :)

[Hahma]

Added squad tests to playtest sheet

[IAmBatman]

I don't know if the "immediately" is necessary in the bonding power.
Instead of "Hail HYDRA" what about "Immortal HYDRA"?
Overall, I like it! :thumbsup:

[A3n]

Another thread of yours Hahma that I missed. They look great & the playtest look good. This should fly through.

I agree that "immediately" is probably not required.

Cheers

[Hahma]

Army Test 1 added to test sheet


I don't know if the "immediately" is necessary in the bonding power.
Instead of "Hail HYDRA" what about "Immortal HYDRA"?
Overall, I like it! :thumbsup:

Thanks and changed. :)

Another thread of yours Hahma that I missed. They look great & the playtest look good. This should fly through.

Cheers

No biggie. :)

We'll see about flying through. :shrug:

[Griffin]

I feel the same way about Hydra Flying that I do about SHIELD Agents Flying; they don't do it all the time, so I think it would be fun for each faction to have a Unique Squad that has Flying.

[A3n]

I feel the same way about Hydra Flying that I do about SHIELD Agents Flying; they don't do it all the time, so I think it would be fun for each faction to have a Unique Squad that has Flying.

Flying through the process. Nobody mentioned the units being able to fly, knuckle-head. :p

[Griffin]

I feel the same way about Hydra Flying that I do about SHIELD Agents Flying; they don't do it all the time, so I think it would be fun for each faction to have a Unique Squad that has Flying.

Flying through the process. Nobody mentioned the units being able to fly, knuckle-head. :p
Excuse me if I am not as internationally refined as Hahma to understand your Aussie speech. :p No I am kidding, I misread your post as "Fly though" instead of "fly through". :lol:

[Spidey'tilIDie]

:rofl: (at this three-stooges dialogue of a thread, right now!)

[Hahma]

Army Test 2 results added to Prelim Playtest, so test is complete now.

At this point, I think they may be fine at 60 points. They are 20 points apiece whereas Thugs are 18.75 points apiece. The HYDRA Agents have a range of 6 vs. a range of 5 for Thugs which is nice. But Immortal Hydra only kicks in after the first one is killed and only lasts for the rest of that turn, so it's only good vs. multiple attacks by the opponent for that turn. Thugs can automatically get the +1 to their defense from being on concrete or asphalt. They can also get +1 to their attack from being on asphalt and concrete. They both bond. So I think they are pretty close and could try them at 60 points.

[Griffin]

I think you are spot on Hahma. :up:

[Hahma]

Thanks Griff.

I'm also considering if I should change their class to Subversives instead of Terrorists, unless people would be fine with A.I.M. Agents also being Terrorist class. Either way, I think they should both be the same class. A.I.M. stems from HYDRA and they have the same objective of world domination through subversive means with technology. They both want the same thing but one uses tech and the other uses guns/bombs/gass etc.

Just thinking down the road with this A.I.M. thing. Also would think about a Dreadnought uncommon hero too for the Subversive/Terrorist faction down the road as well.

[IAmBatman]

I prefer Terrorist ... so is this ready for the ERB phase?

[Griffin]

I definitely prefer Terrorist. ERB time baby! :D

[Hahma]

Terrorists they stay :D

I Propose to move HYDRA Agents to ERB phase.

[NecroBlade]

Yea, I like Terrorists.

Wait, what?

[Griffin]

Yea, I like Terrorists.

Wait, what?

TERRORIST!!!!!! :lol:

Yea.

[IAmBatman]

yea

[A3n]

Yea - Send the Terrorists to the Execution Review Board. :p

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea.

[IAmBatman]

I've found pming to be a pretty effective way to garner votes around here. :-)

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[Hahma]

I've found pming to be a pretty effective way to garner votes around here. :-)

Yeah, I have to get better with that. I just sent Whitestuff one. :)

[IAmBatman]

It's all good - just started doing it more actively myself the past couple of votes. :-)

[whitestuff]

Yea

[Hahma]

The proposal passes on July 10 at 11:36pm by unanimous vote. Now where do I find that ERB thing with who to send at what time and date? I looked around and couldn't find the darn thing. :confused:

[Hahma]

Pm's sent to Eclipse and Wulfhunter for ERB comments.

[Griffin]

Pm's sent to Eclipse and Wulfhunter for ERB comments.
Good job. :up: Hahma is a'taking care of business, every day. Taking care of business, everyway. Taking care of business, all the time. Taking care of business and working over time. :note::note:

[Hahma]

Pm's sent to Eclipse and Wulfhunter for ERB comments.
Good job. :up: Hahma is a'taking care of business, every day. Taking care of business, everyway. Taking care of business, all the time. Taking care of business and working over time. :note::note:

:D

Just trying to do my part in moving things along when the time comes. :)

[Hahma]

We have our first ERB response:

Nice custom. I see nothing wrong with it overall. The only suggestion I have would be to remove the Ruthless from bonding to allow more bonding opportunity, but then, that's just my opinion.
Wulfhunter667

[IAmBatman]

I think the Ruthless thing was to purposely restrict them to bonding with only a couple of figures. Lex Luthor and the HYDRA agents wasn't something we were wanting, for instance ...

[Griffin]

:word: to the Batman.

[Hahma]

I agree

[IAmBatman]

How much longer do is the window open for our second ERB comment?

[Hahma]

I just sent them out this morning, like 14 1/2 hours ago, so I think we have 33 1/2 hours left. Wulfhunter was really quick with his response. Maybe Eclipse will see it tomorrow at work or something. :shrug:

[IAmBatman]

Yep. Wasn't sure how long ago it was. :-) Sounds like we've got some time still.

[Hahma]

Yep. Wasn't sure how long ago it was. :-) Sounds like we've got some time still.

Darn these road bumps and delays standing in the way of progress. :D

[GreyOwl]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Eclipse doesn't check the site on weekends.

[Hahma]

Here's the response from Eclipse

Part of me would rather see the Hydra guys imitate the Marro Dividers in the literal "cut off the head and 2 replace it" sort of mentality. I'd also lean towards 4 figures, just because Hydra has that cannon fodder mentality. Nothing wrong with it as stands I suppose though.

[IAmBatman]

I could see going with four figures.

[Griffin]

I am against 4 figures and Master Mind bonding, also it is nice to not have to buy those 4 man squads too often.

No Marro DNA splitting please. The result of the mechanic is far too much like the Divide power, and they do not have that ability at all. To give them that power IMO, is making a pun out of their motto.

[IAmBatman]

I agree that they shouldn't have any literal take on a cell divide power. I think what you've got represents their motto pretty well.
I'm fine with 3 figures or 4.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... actually, though, if the squaddies are the "arms" of HYDRA, and their leader is the "head" of HYDRA, it really does seem like they should have four figures.

[Griffin]

Hmm ... actually, though, if the squaddies are the "arms" of HYDRA, and their leader is the "head" of HYDRA, it really does seem like they should have four figures.
Are you suggesting that we the number of figures in the squad be a parody on their faction's 'body'? That seems a bit weird, and I wonder how many people would actually get it.

[IAmBatman]

Not a parody - a representation.

[Hahma]

I agree that they shouldn't have any literal take on a cell divide power. I think what you've got represents their motto pretty well.
I'm fine with 3 figures or 4.

Hmm ... actually, though, if the squaddies are the "arms" of HYDRA, and their leader is the "head" of HYDRA, it really does seem like they should have four figures.


Well if 4 figures would be the arms then wouldn't Cell Divide be proper too, as in Terrorist Cell divide. :p


I like Immortal Hydra the way it is and is something different from the Divide mechanic. I'd rather save the Divide mechanic for something more literal and thematic.

As to the number of figures, Hmmmmmm. In one sense, it would be good to get 8 figures for 160 points (2 x 4) rather than 9 figures for 180 points (3 x 6). However, I kind of think that if Madame Hydra just wanted to intermingle with a non-Hydra/Terrorist army, it would be more feasible cost-wise for her to just have to spend 120 points extra for a couple squads rather than 160 for a couple squads. That extra 40 points might hurt what else she could be teamed up with. Also, considering Red Skull really is primarily best used with heroes, it could be neat for him to have 1 squad of 3 Hydra Agents for only 60 points (saves room for the heroes in his army). These 3 agents can basically be saved as body guards so to speak and be used to make Red Skull a little more of a threat at the end of the game if he has to get out there and fight.

[IAmBatman]

I'm ultimately fine with 3 or 4. 4 seems a tad more thematically appropriate, but gameplay is king.

[whitestuff]

I like the 4-man squad.

[NecroBlade]

Most of our other squads are/will be 3-man, so I could go for 4 here as well.

[IAmBatman]

Not saying this one is a good fit, but something to think about for all of us - we should really look into doing some more unique squads.

[Hahma]

I guess I could see them as a 4 man squad. I couldn't make them at 56.25 points as a 3 figure squad to keep them at the same price per figure as the Thugs. So maybe as a 4 figure unit they could be 75 points.

I can see doing some Unique Squads, not these guys, but something else down the road.

[Hahma]

There's been plenty of time to digest the ERB response, especially since there weren't any controversial or game changing so to speak concerns by Wulfunter or Eclipse. After some review, the consensus seemed to agree with Eclipse's though on making them a 4 figure squad.

Thus I propose we move the HYDRA Agents to playtest phase as a 4 figure squad and priced at 75 points. I adjusted the first post.

The 24 hour mark from last ERB response won't be up for just under 4 hours, but I don't know if I'll get back online for awhile or not at work. So people can wait 4 hours from the time of this post if they want to make it "official", I just didn't want to waste an opportunity to get the proposal out since there really wasn't much debate going on.

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[Griffin]

Nay. I would rather them be a 3 man squad. No more squad scape, that is my motto.

[IAmBatman]

I don't care if we wait any longer, lol. yea.

[NecroBlade]

Yea. We've released (RELEASED, nevermind what we're still working on) 49 unique heroes and THREE squads so far, so Griffin can get his head out of his ass.

[Griffin]

Yea. We've released (RELEASED, nevermind what we're still working on) 49 unique heroes and THREE squads so far, so Griffin can get his head out of his ass.

Ouch dude. Point taken but still..... my ass is head free. :moon:

[Hahma]

Edited to removed pix.

[Hahma]

Vote to playtest phase currently stands at

4 Yea - Hahma, GreyOwl, Necro, Bats

1 Nay - Griffin (opposed to 4 figure unit)

[IAmBatman]

I don't think you'll have a problem getting the majority. :-P

[Griffin]

I don't think you'll have a problem getting the majority. :-P
There is always hope. :D

[whitestuff]

Yea - I like the four.

[Griffin]

Yea - I like the four.
Well not enough because you just made it five. :(


4 5 Yea - Hahma, GreyOwl, Necro, Bats, Whitey

1 Nay - Griffin (opposed to 4 figure unit, but in the cool club :-p)

[A3n]

Yea - I like 4 also.

[Hahma]

6 Yea - Hahma, GreyOwl, Necro, Bats, Whitey, A3n

1 Nay - Griffin (opposed to 4 figure unit, but in the cool club :-p)

[IAmBatman]

Spidey's vote or Father Time to move this forward.

[Hahma]

Spidey's vote or Father Time to move this forward.


I pm'd him about that and the question about Mole Man's Tunneling needing restrictions or being able to Tunnel onto water spaces.

[Hahma]

Seeing as Spidey was on the boards last night and didn't vote on this (I had Pm'd him the day before to request his vote) I'm not holding out hope that he will be voting on this in the next 6 minutes and I have to get ready for work. I know he's really busy with real life stuff, so I totally understand as that certainly takes precedence.

So the proposal passes and the HYDRA Agents are moved to playtesting phase.

[IAmBatman]

Woo hoo!

[Hahma]

This is a question that Sir G pm'd me regarding Immortal Hydra

How are we defining a "turn"?

Is it, for example, one player's OM1 or both players' OM1s?

The reason I ask is because if HYDRA Agents have initiative and lose a figure to counterstrike on their OM1, do the other Agents gain the defense bonus while defending on the opponent's OM1?And this is what I responded with:

It's for the remainder of the turn where one was killed. So if on the Agent's turn one died from CS, then the rest of them have +1 defense for the rest of that turn. Then on the other player's turn, they start back at defense of 2.


Thanks for asking about this, because I didn't run into that during initial playtesting and it wasn't brought up during the design phase, but I'll bring it up to the others to see if we need to change the power to read:

Immortal HYDRA
After the first HYDRA agent you control is destroyed during a player's turn, add 1 to the defense of all remaining HYDRA agents you control for the remainder of that player's turn.
So what do you guys think. For clarity reasons, should we insert player's into the power?

[IAmBatman]

It's a good add on for sure, because then it doesn't get confusing when a player takes a "turn" with more than one unit with a single Order Marker.

[Hahma]

I pm'd both Sir G and Adam with the updated wording. I'll update the first post here in a second. :D

[IAmBatman]

Good stuff! :thumbsup:

[Griffin]

Good stuff Hambone. :up:

[Griffin]

The front page says these guys are a 4 man squad, but the picture is 3. Which is it? I seem to remember voting for 3 men and you guys out voting me for 4. Am I wrong? :confused:

[Hahma]

It's 4, but when I had taken the picture, it was when I thought it was going to be 3. I haven't thought about taking another picture yet with 4 because GreyOwl said that A3n prefers pictures of individual squad figures in different positions that he can photoshop together for the card. So he's not going to use the picture from the front page anyway. The only ones that are going to see that picture on the first page is us, it will be replaced with the cards with pix of 4 figures when all is said and done.

[A3n]

It's 4, but when I had taken the picture, it was when I thought it was going to be 3. I haven't thought about taking another picture yet with 4 because GreyOwl said that A3n prefers pictures of individual squad figures in different positions that he can photoshop together for the card. So he's not going to use the picture from the front page anyway. The only ones that are going to see that picture on the first page is us, it will be replaced with the cards with pix of 4 figures when all is said and done.

Griff could also be referring to the comic pic, it only has 3 in it.

or we could use this one:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rzdB5a4kLAo/SllanrWI0cI/AAAAAAAAO8A/Wt4LHpoQHTo/s400/Cosplay_HydraAgents.jpg
:p

[Hahma]

Nice find A3n, I forgot I still had that HYDRA fanclub photo up on the net. :D

[Hahma]

CHECK LIST FOR FIGURE UNITS – HYDRA Agents (4) – 75 points
- THEME TEST – PASS
- MIRROR TEST - PASS
- BONDING TEST - PASS
- SYNERGIES TEST - PASS
- POWER CHECK - PASS
- FUN TEST – PASS
- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST - PASS
- DRAFTING TEST - PASS
- USAGE TEST - PASS
- STRATEGY TEST - PASS

PLAY TEST LIST FOR FIGURE UNITS
All tests done on Quasatch Playground (See * on Army test 2)

- HEAVY HITTER TEST - PASS

Test 1 v James Murphy (75)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 3 of Round 2 with 1 figure remaining.

Test 2 v Kumiko (60)
Kumiko wins on Turn 6 of Round 2 with 4 wounds. 1 Agent saved by Immortal bonus.

Test 3 v Crixus (90)
Crixus wins on Turn 6 of Round with 3 wounds.

Test 4 v Atlaga (90)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 3 of Round 2 with 2 figures remaining.

Test 5 (x2) v Major Q10 (150)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 5 of Round 1 having only lost 1 figure.

Test 6 (x2) v Major Q10 (rematch)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 5 of Round 2 with 2 figures remaining.

Test 7 v Angel (90)
Angel wins on Turn 3 of Round 2 with 2 wounds.

Test 8 (x2) v Green Arrow (150)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 1 of Round 3 with 1 figure remaining. Immortal HYDRA saved that 1 figure from an early exploding arrow.

Test 9 (x2) v Nightcrawler (140)
Nightcrawler wins on Turn 3 of Round 3 with 2 wounds. Immortal HYDRA worked once. This was very fun, with Nightcrawler Bamfing all around the HYDRA Agents.

Test 10 (x2) v Harley Quinn (130)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 2 of Round 2 with 3 figures remaining.

Test 11 (x2) v Jonah Hex (130)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 5 of Round 2 with 3 figures remaining.

- SQUAD TEST - PASS

Test 1 v 4th Mass (70)
4th Mass win on Turn 1 of Round 2 with 1 figure remaining. Immortal HYDRA worked once.

Test 2 v Knights of Weston (70)
Knights win on Turn 4 of Round 3 with 1 figure remaining.

Test 3 v Street Thugs (75)
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 3 of Round 2 with no losses.

Test 4 v Street Thugs rematch
HYDRA Agents win on Turn 6 of Round 3 with 1 figure remaining. Immortal HYDRA worked 3 times!!!

- ARMY TEST - PASS

Test 1
HYDRA Agents x2 (150), Red Skull (190), Flash (250) = 590 v
Superman (400) and Batman (200) = 600

Round 1: Initiative Team Bats
Supes out. HYDRA out, Red Skull out. Supes heads straight for Red Skull and hits him for 2 wounds (2). HYDRA shoot down from height, but are easily blocked. DoD = 17, whiffs attack. Supes punches the clone for two more wounds (4). HYDRA miss again. DoD = 19, Superman destroyed!?!

Round 2: Initiative Team Bats
Batarangs take out two HYDRA (2). Immortal saved 1. HYDRA miss. DoD = 13 and Red Skull misses. ‘Rangs take out 2 more HYDRA (4) and put down Red Skull. HYDRA attacks blocked. ‘Rangs take out a HYDRA (5) – Immortal saved 1. All HYDRA shots blocked.

Round 3: Initiative Team HYDRA
Since the HYDRA have been completely ineffective, Flash zips by the Bat and hits him for 1 wound (1) [ES = 13]. Batman takes out HYDRA #6. Immortal works for 3rd time. Flash misses [ES = 9]. Bats would only have 1 target with his Batarangs, so attacks closest HYDRA normally and drops him like a rock (7). Flash puts the Bat at critical life (3) [ES=8], but can’t get far enough away this time to keep him from counterpunching for 2 wounds (2).
Round 4: Initiative Team HYDRA.
Flash rolls 4 skulls, only to take a wound from ES = 15 (3). Bats can’t get close enough to Flash, so takes out last HYDRA (:cool:. Flash races across the map and rolls 4 skulls [ES = 1] to Bats’ 3 shields for the win.

Team HYDRA wins on Turn 3 of Round 4 with a 1-life Flash gasping for air.

Test 2
HYDRA Agents x2 (150), Red Skull (190), Deadpool (285) = 625 v
Street Thugs x2 (150), Black Mask (100), Captain America (220), Mystique (165) = 635

Round 1: Initiative Team HYDRA
HYDRA out, Red Skull out. BM/Thugs pod out. Deadpool out and pops 2 Thugs (2). Mystique fires for 1 wound on Deadpool, who takes height and shoots back for 1 wound on Mystique (1), while healing his own (0). Mystique returns fire for 1 wound on Deadpool (1), who promptly heals it (0).

Round 2: Initiative Team Thugs
Cap moves out, but Shield Throw whiffs. Deadpool is having fun, so puts 3 quick wounds on Cap (3). Black Mask and 2 Thugs take shots using Cap’s bonus; BM whiffs, 1st Thug goes down by BM’s own hand (3). 2nd one seeing that puts 2 wounds on the wisecracking mutant (2). Deadpool puts down Cap, but misses Black Mask and heals (1). OM 3 on Cap. Deadpool puts a wound on Black Mask (1) and heals (0).

Round 3: Initiative Team HYDRA
HYDRA out to height for one more total wound on Mystique (2); other two miss. Red Skull whiffs. Mystique gets adjacent to a HYDRA and shoots at Deadpool for 1 wound (1). HYDRA manage to punch through for another wound (3). Red Skull misses. Mystique again shoots at Deadpool, this time for 2 wounds (3). Deadpool puts another wound on Black Mask (2) and heals (2). Mystique misses. Deadpool heals (1).

Round 4: Initiative Team HYDRA
Deadpool puts down Black Mask and 4th Thug and heals (0). Remaining Thugs only manage to get two HYDRA (2). HYDRA miss; Red Skull DoD = 18. Mystique breaks through for 3 wounds on Deadpool (3). HYDRA only get 1 more Thug (5). DoD = 3, Red Skull misses adjacent Mystique. Mystique finally puts down Deadpool, who would have healed if she hadn’t.

Round 5: Initiative Team HYDRA
HYDRA now have 3 adjacent to Mystique, but can’t break through this time; 4th HYDRA takes out Thug #6. DoD = 13; Red Skull misses again. Mystique puts a wound on Red Skull (1). HYDRA put Mystique at critical life (4). DoD = 6; Red Skull finally takes out Mystique. OM 2 on Mystique. HYDRA mop up last Thugs.

Team HYDRA wins on Turn 5 of Round 5 with 4-life Red Skull and 6 HYDRA remaining.

*(I reran with the road tiles being concrete for the Thug bonuses, and Team HYDRA still won, but with only 1-life Red Skull and 2 HYDRA remaining).

Immortal HYDRA with height has them rolling the magic 4 defense dice, which makes a huge difference.

They can also be podded with Captain America for even more heartiness.

[Hahma]

The previous post is the playtest results thus far that I just got from Sir G.

[IAmBatman]

I think they look like 70-75 from those results. Once the army tests hit and they get their Ruthless Mastermind bonding, I think 75 will look more solid.

[Hahma]

Updated Sir G's test sheet with his complete results. They look pretty good at 75

[A3n]

Updated Sir G's test sheet with his complete results. They look pretty good at 75

He could do that himself now.

[IAmBatman]

Glad you're honing in on a price. :-) We still need to hear back from Adam Souza, though.

[Hahma]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (Hydra Agents)

- THEME TEST/
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/
PASS

- BONDING TEST/
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/
PASS

- POWER CHECK/
PASS

- FUN TEST/
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/
PASS

- USAGE TEST/
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?
Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents VS James Murphy

Hydra Agents win with 2 left on Round 1 Turn 3

TEST 2
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents VS Kosumet the Darklord

Hydra Agents win with 4 left on Round 1 Turn 2

TEST 3
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents VS Concan the Kyrie Warrior

Concan wins with 3 wounds. Round 2 Turn 2.

TEST 4
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents VS Finn the Viking Champ

Hydra Agents win Round 2 Turn 1, with 1 Agent left.

TEST 5
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents VS Erevan Sunshadow

Erevan wins Round 2 Turn 3 with 2 wounds.





_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass?
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents VS 10th Regiment of Foot
Spoiler Alert!
10th Reg win with 2 soldiers left on Round 1 Turn 3



_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents x3, Red Skull, and Nilfheim VS Superman and Batman
Spoiler Alert!
Hydra Agents move forward with Red Skull, Red Skull engages Superman and attacks, for no wounds, but the Hydra Agents get 2 wounds. Red skull then got a 20 on Dust of Death, so Superman was out, the Hydra Agents moved to attack Batman, and Batman killed 3 in one turn with Bat-a-Rang SA. Red Skull then moved in to attack Batman and landed 2 wounds, and the Hydra Agents add 1 wound to that. Batman then attacks Red Skull and he landed 2 wounds. Next turn Red Skull took out Batman.Hydra Agent army won, with 8 Agents, Red Skull with 2 wounds and Nilfheim left.



_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Marr Highway
Units: Hydra Agents x2, Red Skull, Flash and Isamu VS Arkillo, Sinestro Corp Soldier x2, Marro Warriors, and Marcu
Spoiler Alert!
Hydra Agents and Red Skull move out. Arkillo moves to attack them and destroyed one of the Sinestro Corp Soldiers to inspire the other one. Red Skull and the Agents give Arkillo 3 wounds, and Arkillo returns the favor by Eviscerating Red Skull for 3 wounds. Red Skull add 1 wound to Arkillo, but the Agents can't harm the monster. Arkillo Finishes off Red Skull and the other Sinestro Corp Soldier catches up and takes out an agent. The Hydra Agents manage to give Arkillo the killing blow but didn't wound the Sinestro Corp Soldier. The uninspired Soldier doesn't manage to do anything on his turn, but the Hydra Agents wound him 2 times and the Soldier kills an Agent. Now Flash comes up to deal with the Soldier and kills him in one hit. Flash then speeds after the Marro Warriors when the Soldier lost his OM. The Marro Warriors scramble to get some height and land a wound on Flash. Flash takes 1 Marro out. The Marro put 2 more wounds on Flash, and Flash kills another one. The Warriors run off and try to clone gaining one of their fallen. The Agents shoot at the now lower Marro and take all three out. Marcu runs but Flash catches him and kills him in a few attacks. Flash with 1 wounds, 6 Agents left, and Isamu.

[Hahma]

Above test sheet from Ticklepickle

[whitestuff]

They seem to be on the winning side of every test...

Too cheap?

[Hahma]

They seem to be on the winning side of every test...

Too cheap?

Possibly. I'll have to ask Sir G how he felt after his tests. He didn't leave a comment regarding their price on his test sheet.

Unfortunately in test 1, Superman died quickly from Red Skull's Dust of Death, so that's kind of skews that test a good bit. Though the same thing happened (though I don't know if it were as early in the game) for Sir G, with Superman dropping from Dust of Death. Though in that game, it was a lot closer at the end with just Flash left with three wounds, though Hydra Agents didn't do anything and Flash had to come out to take care of business.

I think Sir G's test was way more extensive and they seemed pretty good at 75 points. I'd like to get his opinion.

[Griffin]

They seem to be on the winning side of every test...

Too cheap?
That was what I noticed too. Do they ever lose in an army build?

[Hahma]

They seem to be on the winning side of every test...

Too cheap?
That was what I noticed too. Do they ever lose in an army build?


Well in my prelim tests, where I had 3 figure units @ 60 points, they lost both army builds.

Can you really count it when Superman gets DOD'd early in the game as a win for these guys? Batman vs. close to 600 points isn't really fair.

A similar thing happened with Sir G's test, though I don't know how early in the game it was but he said the Agents weren't doing anything and brought out Flash to work on Bats (all the while Bats is taking out Agents left and right). Flash lived in that one with 1 life left, so Bats took on Flash and several Agents and nearly won. Really not digging the Supes/Bats army everywhere.

Is Arkillo with only 2 SCS really that effective? I mean, he has to kill 110 points just to beef up one other insurgent. Seems like they were behind the 8 ball from the get go.

I don't know :shrug:

I pm'd Sir G to see what his opinion was for points, as he did a really extensive test.

[Griffin]

They seem to be on the winning side of every test...

Too cheap?
That was what I noticed too. Do they ever lose in an army build?


Well in my prelim tests, where I had 3 figure units @ 60 points, they lost both army builds.

Can you really count it when Superman gets DOD'd early in the game as a win for these guys? Batman vs. close to 600 points isn't really fair.

A similar thing happened with Sir G's test, though I don't know how early in the game it was but he said the Agents weren't doing anything and brought out Flash to work on Bats (all the while Bats is taking out Agents left and right). Flash lived in that one with 1 life left, so Bats took on Flash and several Agents and nearly won. Really not digging the Supes/Bats army everywhere.

Is Arkillo with only 2 SCS really that effective? I mean, he has to kill 110 points just to beef up one other insurgent. Seems like they were behind the 8 ball from the get go.

I don't know :shrug:

I pm'd Sir G to see what his opinion was for points, as he did a really extensive test.
Yeah, I can see how a D20 kill is misleading in terms of their success, but it could also cover up the fact that maybe they truly are too powerful or maybe even too weak or priced incorrectly. I guess what I am saying is that D20 powers are so swingy in games that it is hard to get a good bead on these guys either way. So even though there isn't much on this card that really scares me, I think that I would personally like to see one additional army test to get a bit more data before calling this one. So would you mind if I posted the request for 1 army test to the Allies? And I can get them to do it too by sweetening the pay a little bit since this is an extended playtest. :D

[IAmBatman]

Man - I missed the report here. I'll add this to my list of playtests I need to get on reading!

[IAmBatman]

OK - I'm caught up now! :-) I'd say they're probably about a B or B- unit without their bonding. Factor the bonding in and at 75 points they're probably A or A+ (especially once they have some possibly better heroes to bond with who aren't wasting a lot of their cost on managing order markers for other heroes). So my gut tells me they'd be draftable at 80 points and that might be a safer place for them to end up than 75. I don't think they'd be broken at 75, but they might end up being better than we'd wanted, especially if Madame Hydra gives them some boosts as part of her powers.

[SirGalahad]

A four-figure ranged squad with defensive boosts after one dies, a fifth attack, and there's more Ruthless Masterminds and other bonding/bonus opportunities on the horizon?

Immortal HYDRA works enough to keep frustrating the opponent.

80 sounds about right

[Hahma]

Thanks fellas. First post updated with 80 points.

I propose moving the HYDRA Agents to Final Editing phase at 80 points.

[Griffin]

Yea.

[whitestuff]

Yea

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[NecroBlade]

I'd be OK with 80, yea.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yes.

[Hahma]

We have 7 YEAs so far (I believe my proxy time for Sir G starts today :))

Just need A3n and Bats or father time.

I'm actually starting to get excited, this my first LD since Punisher to get this far. :cheer:What a long road it's been too. :)

[Griffin]

We have 7 YEAs so far (I believe my proxy time for Sir G starts today :))

Just need A3n and Bats or father time.

I'm actually starting to get excited, this my first LD since Punisher to get this far. :cheer:What a long road it's been too. :)
It is exciting. :cheer:

[IAmBatman]

heck yea!

[Griffin]

Waiting on A3n then. I am sure he will find his way in here, but it may help if his name were in the title of the thread.

[A3n]

Am I late?

Yea

[Hahma]

Am I late?

Yea

No, not at all really. But since everyone else showed up and I saw you in She-Hulk's thread, I thought I'd try to get you over here to vote so I can move this on since these guys took forever to get through playtesting. Go figure. Everyone else gets there stuff tested in 30 minutes and mine go like 2 weeks. :D

Anyway, I propose (for my vote and Sir G's) the HYDRA Agents move on to final editing phase.

[Griffin]

Am I late?

Yea

No, not at all really. But since everyone else showed up and I saw you in She-Hulk's thread, I thought I'd try to get you over here to vote so I can move this on since these guys took forever to get through playtesting. Go figure. Everyone else gets there stuff tested in 30 minutes and mine go like 2 weeks. :D

Anyway, I propose (for my vote and Sir G's) the HYDRA Agents move on to final editing phase.
We are already there actually. ;)

Thanks fellas. First post updated with 80 points.

I propose moving the HYDRA Agents to Final Editing phase at 80 points.


Figure Design: 2 Playtesters are required. Each test should be done on a BoV or C3G competitive map. Each playtester should complete a Full Feedback Sheet (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=1476) (see link) that includes detailed reports of the following tests: five tests versus heroes of the same or close to the same point cost (can either be one "heavy hitter" or two mid level heroes), one test versus a squad of the same or close to the same point cost, and 2 army tests with the tested Design as part of an army battling another army of the same point cost. Playtested Figure Designs must be approved by a majority C3G hero vote to finalize cost and move to the Final Editing Phase.

[Griffin]

So now you need a card.

[Hahma]

We are already there actually. ;)



I guess I was so excited to get a 2nd unit done that I forgot where the heck we were at.

:oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oop s::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops:



Yeah, we need a card. :D

[A3n]

Am I late?

Yea

No, not at all really. But since everyone else showed up and I saw you in She-Hulk's thread, I thought I'd try to get you over here to vote so I can move this on since these guys took forever to get through playtesting. Go figure. Everyone else gets there stuff tested in 30 minutes and mine go like 2 weeks. :D

Anyway, I propose (for my vote and Sir G's) the HYDRA Agents move on to final editing phase.

I thought the vote to finalise points also counts as the vote to move to final editing.

either way Yea

[Hahma]

Am I late?

Yea

No, not at all really. But since everyone else showed up and I saw you in She-Hulk's thread, I thought I'd try to get you over here to vote so I can move this on since these guys took forever to get through playtesting. Go figure. Everyone else gets there stuff tested in 30 minutes and mine go like 2 weeks. :D

Anyway, I propose (for my vote and Sir G's) the HYDRA Agents move on to final editing phase.

I thought the vote to finalise points also counts as the vote to move to final editing.

either way Yea

It did but my dumb ass forgot we were already in final editing phase. :lol:

Just need cards and we can vote these guys to on-deck.

[A3n]

I will start working on them this afternoon. Off to the kids soccer now. Please ensure all pics are linked in the first thread (if they aren't already) to make it go smoothly for me.

cheers

[Griffin]

Am I late?

Yea

No, not at all really. But since everyone else showed up and I saw you in She-Hulk's thread, I thought I'd try to get you over here to vote so I can move this on since these guys took forever to get through playtesting. Go figure. Everyone else gets there stuff tested in 30 minutes and mine go like 2 weeks. :D

Anyway, I propose (for my vote and Sir G's) the HYDRA Agents move on to final editing phase.

I thought the vote to finalise points also counts as the vote to move to final editing.

either way Yea

It did but my dumb ass forgot we were already in final editing phase. :lol:

Just need cards and we can vote these guys to on-deck.
Cool. See Hambone, you were closer to the finish line than you thought. You have been running for so long, you forgot where the race ended. :lol:

[Hahma]

I will start working on them this afternoon. Off to the kids soccer now. Please ensure all pics are linked in the first thread (if they aren't already) to make it go smoothly for me.

cheers

Thanks buddy. :DEverything you need is on the first post and there's a link to the individual HYDRA Agent figures. The comic art is all I could find. Hopefully you can make something of the background pix.


Cool. See Hambone, you were closer to the finish line than you thought. You have been running for so long, you forgot where the race ended. :lol:You got that right :D

[A3n]

Ok here's the mini card, but we are going to need something else for the comic as the one in the first post is way too wide.

Mini (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_HydraAgents_mini.jpg)

Cheers

[Griffin]

Ok here's the mini card, but we are going to need something else for the comic as the one in the first post is way too wide.

Mini (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_HydraAgents_mini.jpg)

Cheers
Rock on dude! :rock: That looks great. I will try and find some art tonight.

[Griffin]

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/b/b5/HydraOrganization_Head.jpg


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6799/1202243-hydra___commandos_2.jpg

[Hahma]

Ok here's the mini card, but we are going to need something else for the comic as the one in the first post is way too wide.

Mini (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_HydraAgents_mini.jpg)

Cheers

Looks great A3n :up: Though I noticed in Ruthless Mastermind Bonding it says Hydra Agents and it's supposed to be HYDRA Agents. That was my fault as I didn't have it capitalized on the first page where you got it from, but I have just changed it to be all capitalized.

I'll try to look for more comic art, but there isn't much out there. GreyOwl has some neat ones on his HYDRA Agent cards, but I haven't been able to find them anywhere. I wonder if he remembers where he got those.

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/b/b5/HydraOrganization_Head.jpg


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6799/1202243-hydra___commandos_2.jpg


Thanks Griff for finding these. There really isn't much out there without the Agents being in the background or getting their asses kicked by some hero. :D

[IAmBatman]

Not sure if it fits the space, but I dig that second HYDRA pic. :-)
And great job on the mini card, A3n! That looks awesome as usual.

[whitestuff]

Not easy to find good comic art for these dudes... stupid hero fodder...

http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/media/555/Copie_de_35.jpg

http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/media/318/69180comic_storystory_full-5749477..jpg

Couple more...

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/cap%20return.jpg

http://sports.upperdeck.com/ArticleImages/VsSystem/2008/may/CR03.gif

Unless we use this one guy, cut him out, copy him a few times and put him on a comic background of our choosing...

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/5/57/Hydra_001.jpg

[Hahma]

I don't get the tie in with Disney for those first two Whitey but I get the other two. Not easy pickens.

[whitestuff]

I don't get the tie in with Disney for those first two Whitey but I get the other two. Not easy pickens.Man. I'm sick of my photobucket bandwidth issues... Stupid internet links... :? If you copy and paste the link into a new page the pic will show up.

GO's Hydra card has a good pic...

[A3n]

How about this for the comic, I could only fit 3 in but I think it looks ok:


Cheers

[Hahma]

Looks great A3n :up: Though I noticed in Ruthless Mastermind Bonding it says Hydra Agents and it's supposed to be HYDRA Agents. That was my fault as I didn't have it capitalized on the first page where you got it from, but I have just changed it to be all capitalized.

[whitestuff]

Are they Hydra? Their uniform seems off...

[Hahma]

They are Hydra. I've got that issue of Secret Warriors with them in it. They have a newer look in at least that comic series. It's a very cool series.


From Wiki:

Dark Reign and Secret Warriors

During an infiltration and elimination of a covert S.H.I.E.L.D. base in Chicago, Fury discovers that S.H.I.E.L.D. is, and always has been, secretly controlled by HYDRA.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-17) A distraught Fury now plans to use his Secret Warriors to combat the renewed HYDRA threat, spearheaded by his old nemesis, Baron Strucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Strucker).[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-18) He also hires the new Howling Commandos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howling_Commandos), a private military company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company) formed by 1200 former S.H.I.E.L.D. agents who refused to join Norman Osborn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Goblin)'s H.A.M.M.E.R. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.A.M.M.E.R.), to employ them in his fight against HYDRA and Osborn.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-19) Also, he has a number of inside men to assist in his raids,[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-20) including Natasha Romanova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%28Natalia_Romanova%29) posing as Yelena Belova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%28Yelena_Belova%29) who is in command of the Thunderbolts.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-21) Eventually, he and his men commandeer decommissioned Helicarriers, as well as forcing the H.A.M.M.E.R. agents at the dock to follow him.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-22) Natasha brings Songbird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songbird_%28comics%29) to Fury, but she is followed and the three are captured by the Thunderbolts. Osborn then shoots Fury in the head.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-23) However, it was not the real Fury who was shot, but a Life Model Decoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Model_Decoy) in his image,[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-24) which the Fixer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixer_%28comics%29) reveals to Songbird and Black Widow later after they escape the Thunderbolts.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-25)
On a solo mission soon after, Fury teams with Norman Osborn to interrogate a lower-level H.A.M.M.E.R. agent. The conversation (and materials obtained afterwards) reveal there may be an organization much like HYDRA, installed in the upper levels of world governments, called "Leviathan." This organization appears to have been founded by the Soviet government for reasons as yet unclear.[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-26) Fury later introduces Daisy Johnson to prominent members of the Howling Commandos including Alexander Pierce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Goodwin_Pierce), leader of the second caterpillar team, and Mikel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpio_%28comics%29#Scorpio_.28Mikel_Fury.29), Fury's son and leader of the "gray" team.[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury#cite_note-27)




Unfortunately the classic Hydra uniforms in comic art is really hard to find much that seems useful. And actually, the minis that we're going with don't have the "old school" look either.

[Griffin]

How about this for the comic, I could only fit 3 in but I think it looks ok:

Comic (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_HydraAgents_comic.jpg)

Cheers
Looks great, and something tells me that is about as good as it is going to get.

[IAmBatman]

I like it. And I like that although only three of them are completely in the frame, you can see parts of others, so it's clearly a group shot with a horde of HYDRA behind the scenes.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Card looks great, ho-hum. I am really getting spoiled by all this great A3N and Greyowl art!

[Hahma]

I propose we move HYDRA Agents to On Deck phase.

[A3n]

I propose we move HYDRA Agents to On Deck phase.

Can you put the links to the cards in the first post & take out the other pic links. Please :D

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Looks great! yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yessir.

[A3n]

Thank-you & Yea

[NecroBlade]

Looks good guys. Yea.

I'm noticing a troubling phenomenon here, though...all our squads are ending up with XX Bonding...

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... Beat Cops, HYDRA Agents, Street Thugs, Civilians ... this is only the fourth squad we've completed so far and that's two of four. But, yeah, Hand Ninjas, Skrull Warriors, and Moloids add on to this a bit ... maybe we should try to differentiate the latter two (still in the design phase) a bit?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Looks good guys. Yea.

I'm noticing a troubling phenomenon here, though...all our squads are ending up with XX Bonding...

??? Can you be more specific, so I (this moron) can follow the discussion?

[NecroBlade]

Yeah, 5 out of 7 would not be good, IMO.

Crime Lord Bonding, Mastermund Bonding, Assassin Bonding...

[IAmBatman]

It is a hero-centric universe, though, so to some extent it makes sense that if we're going to do a squad, it should interact with Heroes in noticeable ways.
Oh, and crap, take Moloids off the list, because they're common heroes now.
So it'd be 4 out of 6 currently. I think we could, and should, adjust the Skrulls to something more unique so that it goes down to 3 out of 6.
But that's a topic for their thread.

[whitestuff]

Yea

[Griffin]

I will vote as soon as I am done proofing.

[Griffin]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Down to just Sir G, I believe.

[SirGalahad]

I don't think you need "the" before HYDRA Agents in Ruthless Mastermind Bonding (see Arrow Gruts), but otherwise Yea

[Hahma]

I don't think you need "the" before HYDRA Agents in Ruthless Mastermind Bonding (see Arrow Gruts), but otherwise Yea


Yeah, the "the" is inconsistent with the bonding units. While some like the Arrow Gruts, Romans, Sacred Band etc. don't have "the", others like the Knights of Weston and MacDirk Warriors do have "the" and we have "the" for the Thugs. So I guess it's whatever is the preference since it's been done both ways with the official cards. I don't have a preference and if A3n wants to remove the "the" from RMB, that's fine and if he doesn't, that's fine too.

[IAmBatman]

What'd we do on the Street Thugs? We should try to be consistent with ourselves at least ...

[Hahma]

What'd we do on the Street Thugs? We should try to be consistent with ourselves at least ...


We did "the" Street Thugs

[IAmBatman]

Then we should stay as is. :-)
Oh, and the title of this thread should be changed, cuz this is no On Deck! (The Book of the HYDRA Agents).

[IAmBatman]

Clean up the first post when you get a chance to as well, please. :-)

[A3n]

:cheer::cheer::toast::cheer::cheer:

[IAmBatman]

This puts us up to 8 units On Deck, with the SHIELD guys soon to follow. :-)

[Griffin]

Great news.

[Griffin]

Lets see those purdy pics please. It is OK now to show off our Jpegs.

[Griffin]

Still need PDFs here.

[A3n]

Still need PDFs here.

On the way to GO now.

Cheers

[A3n]

GO has uploaded the PDFs & the links are:

Cheers

[Griffin]

I can't rep the seated one, but I can rep A3nus. :up:

[Hahma]

Thanks A3n and GO, :D

I updated the first page with the PDF's

[Griffin]

The PDFs are broken here. :confused:

[A3n]

Cheers

[Griffin]

Updated.

[SirGalahad]

HYDRA Agents standardized

[Griffin]

Good job Sir G.

[IAmBatman]

These are all looking great. :-) About 9 days until we release!

[LordEsenwienIV]

Is a Ruthless mastermind a spoiler?:ponder:

[DEATHWALKER 1970]

That would be telling! :p

[IAmBatman]

I don't know ... have you seen the official Red Skull lately? :-P

[LordEsenwienIV]

I don't know ... have you seen the official Red Skull lately? :-P
ehhhhhhhhhhh........ No?;)

[IAmBatman]

HYDRA Agents + Red Skull + any other unique heroes gives you so many awesome Order Marker options. I love this combo. :-)

[Lord Pyre]

I was wondering why the bonding here is different then every other bonding? Why take a turn with the hero after the squad?

Just curious!

[Griffin]

Because Master Minds are notorious for letting their minions go out before them while Crimelords and other types usually are more likely caught in the fray.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, does Red Skull really strike you as the lead the charge into battle type?
No way! He sends out his minions first to weaken his enemies and tie them up, then comes in to take a shot at Captain America while he's distracted! :-)

[ellak96]

I looked and couldn't find this, but what figure do you need a duplicate of? Number 7 ,8, or 9?

[quozl]

They're all the same sculpt so it doesn't matter.

[Margloth]

I looked and couldn't find this, but what figure do you need a duplicate of? Number 7 ,8, or 9?
It's all the same figure. Heroclix uses a system wherein the same sculpt can be used for different numerical figures, because they have different powers.

EDIT: :ninja:

[ellak96]

I knew that, because I played heroclix first, but on the card, it looks like different figures. srry.

[Good Pig]

I was wondering why the bonding here is different then every other bonding? Why take a turn with the hero after the squad?

Just curious!

I thought it was meant to balance out Madame Hydra as well.

[Lord Pyre]

I was wondering why the bonding here is different then every other bonding? Why take a turn with the hero after the squad?

Just curious!

I thought it was meant to balance out Madame Hydra as well.

I asked that before I saw Madame Hydra. :p

[tcglkn]

Because that's how Ruthless Masterminds would do it. Lead with their minions then kill the weakened opponents.

[johnny139]

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As Terrorists, HYDRA Agents may be moved by Baron von Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628)'s Intelligence Network special power.
As Terrorists, if Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847) has destroyed an opponent's figure this round, HYDRA Agents add 1 to their attack for the remainder of the round due to her Lead By Example special power.Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
Ruthless Mastermind Bonding offers a turn to a Ruthless Mastermind after your turn with HYDRA Agents. Marvel Ruthless Masterminds include: Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9710)C3G:
Ruthless Mastermind Bonding offers a turn to a Ruthless Mastermind after your turn with HYDRA Agents. C3G Ruthless Masterminds include: Baron von Strucker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34628), Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847), and Red Skull (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34730).
As Humans, HYDRA Agents allow adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.
As Terrorists, HYDRA Agents may receive wounds instead of Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847) due to her Necessary Sacrifices special power.

[IAmBatman]

Updated.

[Griffin]

Thanks... again.

[MegaSilver]

Could some please put plain text for the card here? I can't see the cards at all and I need to look at them to decide if I want to play them in my upcoming SLH game...

[IAmBatman]

Human
Common Squad
Terrorists
Fanatical
Medium 5

1 Life
Move 5
Range 6
Attack 2
Defese 2
80 Points

RUTHLESS MASTERMIND BONDING
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and after taking a turn with HYDRA Agents, you may take a turn with any Ruthless Mastermind you control.

IMMORTAL HYDRA
After the first HYDRA Agent you control is destroyed during a player's turn, add 1 to the defense of all remaining HYDRA Agents you control for the remainder of that player's turn.

[MegaSilver]

Thanks.