The Book of Super-Skrull (Kl'rt)

[Griffin]

The Book of Super-Skrull
(Kl'rt)

C3G MARVEL FANTASTIC FOUR MASTER SET
FANTASTIC FORCES UNITE!

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_SuperSkrull-KlRt_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_SuperSkrull-KlRt_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_SuperSkrull-KlRt_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_SuperSkrull-KlRt_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Clobberin Time set.
Its model number and name are #090 / Super Skrull.
_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - Enhanced by the science of the Skrulls (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30558) to mimic the Fantastic 4, Super-Skrull is the greatest champion of his people, and he is also one of our world's greatest foes. He is completely loyal to the Skrull Empire and their mission to dominate the Earth, and to accomplish that, he has been genetically enhanced to destroy Earth's most fantastic protectors--the Fantastic 4.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Unique Champion Hero, Super-Skrull may be chosen as Mongul (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37977)'s Champion and receive attack and leaving engagement bonuses.Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Skrull Champion, Super-Skrull may allow Skrull Warriors (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30558) to add 1 additional attack and defense die._________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Initial Playtest: Bats (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1164469&postcount=117)
Second Playtest: tcglkn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1187987&postcount=167)
Third Playtest: Scapemage (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1189551&postcount=173)

[Griffin]

Difficult to say until we know what we want to do with the Fan 4, but I think to help out,
Thing could be represented in his stats and with Super Strength
Lava Resistance from Johnny
Even though Mr Fantastic wouldn't have it himself, we could create a different stretch power just for SSkrull to keep things fresh while also referencing Mr. F
Invisibility power from Sue and also give him a gray Hitzone
Flying that represents Sue and Johnny

[IAmBatman]

Flying and Superstrength are a must.
Honestly, this is a rare guy I wouldn't mind seeing with four text powers (one for each of the Fan Four).
I agree with Lava Resistance.
Some sort of Rock Skin type of power. (Something like the Rock Wall power Griff suggested for Thing would be cool).
Invisibility could work for sure.
And then, yeah, a stretchy power. Also he should have short range to represent the stretching arms.

[whitestuff]

I think a few of the abilities can be hidden in the stats... Like a range of 5 (strechy arms) high defense (made of stone) and so on.

[Hahma]

Super Strength
Flying
Maybe a shield/bubble power or situational invisibility.
Stretchy Ranged attack
Lava Resistant and maybe a ranged fire attack
Good all around stats

[NecroBlade]

Even with 4 powers, some things will have to be covered in stats (unless we're not including flying as one of the 4 since it'll be a symbol).

I think he'll need to wait to see what we do with the Fantastic 4 first, though, so we can see what powers we'll be borrowing (and tweaking).

[whitestuff]

Other Super-Skrull art...

Ahttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/Annihilation4_SKRULL.jpg
Bhttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/890813-super_skrull_00_super.jpg
Chttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/MY-Superskrull-1.jpg
Dhttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/110437-109168-super-skrull_super.jpg

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think a gray hitzone can take care of Sue Storm's powers. I think a strong Attack and Defense number can handle translating Thing's powers. I think he needs Super-Strength and Flying. He should have a base Range similar to Reed's card. Then He should have a Special Attack and Fire Immunity to represent Johnny. If we would prefer to lower his defense, I could see him having a one shield defense.

One thing about Kl'rt is that while he has the powers of the whole FF and that is a ton of firepower, he has none of their creativity. His using each of their powers in one specific way seems thematic to me. I see him using Johnny and Ben's powers for Offense and Sue and Reed's for Defense.

[IAmBatman]

How often is he actually ever invisible, though? Doesn't seem to be a power he really uses that much in an actual battle except for like one arm or something just to show off the fact that he can do it.
I think I'd oppose a grey hitzone on him.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I would say he only uses it when he is sneaking up for an attack, maybe he is gray as long as he has not attacked the opponent.

[IAmBatman]

Stealth flying might be the best approach in that case ...

[Spidey'tilIDie]

What about an Invisibility Marker? The idea being that he cannot attack while he has it on and cannot replace it as long as he is within clear sight of an opponent's figure.

[A3n]

Stealth flying might be the best approach in that case ...

Or could it be just Disengage so it isn't nullified if his flying ability is nullified?

[NecroBlade]

INVISIBILITY: While there is at least one revealed Order Marker on this card, ~ has no visible hit zone.

?

So only while he's active, he can get his invisible on. And if he's ever 'sleeping' or loses initiative, an opponent can get shots on him before he reacts.

[Griffin]

I think Hahma said it a while back, and I agreed with him before he said it. We should have a better idea what we want from Super Skrull after the Fan 4 are finished. That doesn't mean we can't brainstorm a bit of course, but lets not get too tied up with ideas until the Fan 4 are more solid.

[IAmBatman]

What about an Invisibility Marker? The idea being that he cannot attack while he has it on and cannot replace it as long as he is within clear sight of an opponent's figure.

Stealth flying might be the best approach in that case ...

Or could it be just Disengage so it isn't nullified if his flying ability is nullified?

I think Hahma said it a while back, and I agreed with him before he said it. We should have a better idea what we want from Super Skrull after the Fan 4 are finished. That doesn't mean we can't brainstorm a bit of course, but lets not get too tied up with ideas until the Fan 4 are more solid.

We have some stuff written up for Invisible Woman that you'll definitely want to look at. :-)

[Griffin]

What about an Invisibility Marker? The idea being that he cannot attack while he has it on and cannot replace it as long as he is within clear sight of an opponent's figure.

Stealth flying might be the best approach in that case ...

Or could it be just Disengage so it isn't nullified if his flying ability is nullified?

I think Hahma said it a while back, and I agreed with him before he said it. We should have a better idea what we want from Super Skrull after the Fan 4 are finished. That doesn't mean we can't brainstorm a bit of course, but lets not get too tied up with ideas until the Fan 4 are more solid.

We have some stuff written up for Invisible Woman that you'll definitely want to look at. :-)
Well post it already you big Diva! :neener:

[A3n]

What about an Invisibility Marker? The idea being that he cannot attack while he has it on and cannot replace it as long as he is within clear sight of an opponent's figure.

Stealth flying might be the best approach in that case ...

Or could it be just Disengage so it isn't nullified if his flying ability is nullified?

I think Hahma said it a while back, and I agreed with him before he said it. We should have a better idea what we want from Super Skrull after the Fan 4 are finished. That doesn't mean we can't brainstorm a bit of course, but lets not get too tied up with ideas until the Fan 4 are more solid.

We have some stuff written up for Invisible Woman that you'll definitely want to look at. :-)
Well post it already you big Diva! :neener:

:word:

[IAmBatman]

INVISIBLE WOMAN
SUSAN STORM

HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
ADVENTURER
MERCIFUL
MEDIUM 5

FANTASTIC FORCE FIELD 4
Start the game with the Force Field Marker on this card. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may place or remove the Force Field Marker. While the Force Field Marker is on Invisible Woman's card, all figures you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Invisible Woman add 2 dice to their defense. If the figures are Adventurers or Scientists, they add 4 to their defense. Fantastic Force Field 4 affects Invisible Woman. Invisible Woman may not use Invisibility while the Force Field Marker is on this card.

INVISIBILITY
Invisible Woman can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. Invisible Woman cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.

CARRY
Before moving Invisible Woman, choose an unengaged friendly small or medium figure adjacent to Invisible Woman. After you move Invisible Woman, place the chosen figure adjacent to Invisible Woman.

FLYING SYMBOL

4 LIFE

MOVE 5
RANGE 4
ATTACK 4
DEFENSE 2

?? POINTS

[NecroBlade]

+4 Defense dice is way too much, IMO. Look how much people hate Raelin 1.0, and this is going to be twice as good (for adventurers and scientists)!

As for which power we take for Super Skrull here, I say Invisibility. Whatever powers we take from the Fan4, they should all be 'toned down' slightly, as, like someone said, he doesn't have their creativity.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I like the theme of all the fours, but I have agree with Necro, I think it may be overpowered. Perhaps she should add 1 to everyone and double to 2 for all adventurers and scientists.

[A3n]

I'm not against the +4 dice but may be the range is too much for her forcefield.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

I think we could either pull the range down to 1 or make the defensive boost 1/2. I think either way is fine.

[NecroBlade]

I'd rather go 1/2, adjacency bonuses are difficult to use at best.

[IAmBatman]

I meant to say range down to 2. It'd be difficult to use, but not that difficult - and if it were a +2 or +4 that would make you try pretty hard.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

What about Range of three and 1/3 boost?

[A3n]

Raelins aura is 2 & it's just an aura bolster you up. Invisible woman is actually throwing a shield around to take the brunt of the attack & you don't think that's worth at least +2 dice also?

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Are you arguing in favor of the +4 defense boost, A3n?

[NecroBlade]

:hijacked:

[A3n]

Are you arguing in favor of the +4 defense boost, A3n?
Sorry yes +2/+4
:hijacked:

Agreed lets move this to Invisible Woman's thread.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

The Fan Four are pretty locked down now in terms of design - so I think we can start picking or choosing powers from there to use here ... stealth flying and super strength for sure. I like Rubber Wrap as a short one from Mr. Fantastic. Invisibility is probably the best to take from Sue (though I'm debating whether we want to or if Stealth Flying is enough to represent her). Rock Wall Defense might be a nice one to bring over here.

[Hahma]

some mini pix

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/HYDRAUnitsandGreenGoblin004.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/HYDRAUnitsandGreenGoblin005.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/HYDRAUnitsandGreenGoblin006.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/HYDRAUnitsandGreenGoblin007.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/HYDRAUnitsandGreenGoblin008.jpg


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/HYDRAUnitsandGreenGoblin009.jpg

[A3n]

Nope, still can't rep ya. :cheer::cheer:

[Hahma]

Nope, still can't rep ya. :cheer::cheer:

Well it's the thought and cheerleaders that count. :D

BTW, I put some photos in my comment posts for several Brainstorming units recently.

[Griffin]

LAVA RESISTANT
Super Skrull never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage and does not have to stop in molten lava spaces.

ROCK WALL DEFENSE 4
If an adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 4 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, and the attacking figure receives one wound.

INVISIBILITY
Super Skrull can move through all figures, is never attacked when leaving an engagement, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.

RUBBER WRAP
All opponent's figures that enter or occupy a space adjacent to Super Skrull may not move. Figures affected by the Rubber Wrap cannot be moved by any special power on any Army Card or glyph.I think these are the shortest and most appropriate powers for Super Skrull, taken directly from the Fan-4.

[A3n]

LAVA RESISTANT
Super Skrull never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage and does not have to stop in molten lava spaces.

ROCK WALL DEFENSE 4
If an adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 4 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, and the attacking figure receives one wound.

INVISIBILITY
Super Skrull can move through all figures, is never attacked when leaving an engagement, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.

RUBBER WRAP
All opponent's figures that enter or occupy a space adjacent to Super Skrull may not move. Figures affected by the Rubber Wrap cannot be moved by any special power on any Army Card or glyph.I think these are the shortest and most appropriate powers for Super Skrull, taken directly from the Fan-4.

:thumbsup: looks good to me.

[Hahma]

Those look good.

Now for his base stats, it's kind of tricky because he should have a decent base attack, but he should also have range.

[Griffin]

Those look good.

Now for his base stats, it's kind of tricky because he should have a decent base attack, but he should also have range.
But it should be a low range IMO, as he is one to usually always get right in his opponent's face.

[Hahma]

Those look good.

Now for his base stats, it's kind of tricky because he should have a decent base attack, but he should also have range.
But it should be a low range IMO, as he is one to usually always get right in his opponent's face.


Yeah, maybe range of 2 or 3.

[Griffin]

Range 2 would be unique and fun but Mr. Fan has a range of 3, so we should probably use that.

[Hahma]

Considering he's invisible and can't be hit from ranged attacks that require cls, it wouldn't be too cool for him to be able to snipe from too far. If he had and attack of 6 and a range of 2, that could hopefully account for his stretchy Thing fist, Fire and Invisible Force type ranged attacks and not have to worry about saying how many levels up or down he can punch with his stretchy fist. I would think that Super Skrull's use of the fire and invisible force would be for more offensive reasons and rate the higher attack, whereas Torch and IW would use there's a little more subtly (except for Nova of course).

[IAmBatman]

Yep, I'm sold on range of 2.
Life ... 6
Move ... 6
Range ... 2
Attack ... 6
Defense ... 6

Flying
Super Strength

That great selection of powers Griff listed.
I love it!

SKRULL
UNIQUE HERO
CHAMPION
MALEVOLENT
MEDIUM 5 (6?)

[Hahma]

Yeah, those stats look really solid, that's what I was going to put for him.

Those in conjunction with the powers Griff listed should make Super Skrull pretty tough, he's going to be a beast.


Thanks guys. :thumbsup:

[IAmBatman]

Which he should be, if he's going to make things tough on the Fan Four all by himself (though I imagine some Skrull Warriors by his side will be needed for him to be truly competitive).

[Hahma]

Which he should be, if he's going to make things tough on the Fan Four all by himself (though I imagine some Skrull Warriors by his side will be needed for him to be truly competitive).


Yeah, he and some Skrull Warriors should be a tough lot for the FF to handle.

The FF are going to be an army that is really going to need to stick close together to really be effective. Can you imagine the Wyverns flying in and Carrying them outside of their effective zone of each other?

[IAmBatman]

Wyverns ... Dragon Man ... whatever. :-D

[Hahma]

Yeah, it will be interesting. :D

[Griffin]

:lol: What's a Wyvern.... is that like some Subteranean monster that works for Mole Man? It will be at some point. :D

[Hahma]

He'd help kidnap Thing and try to covert him to the wonderful life in Subterranea where all the freaks are happy. :D

[Griffin]

He'd help kidnap Thing and try to covert him to the wonderful life in Subterranea where all the freaks are happy. :D
A good story, and one that may make it into the campaign.

[Hahma]

:word:

[IAmBatman]

Hey, Hahma, if you get a chance, write up what we've got for this in one of those nifty formatted posts Griff put a blank up for in the Fan Four thread and I'm sure he or I will update the first post for ya. :-)

[Hahma]

The Book of SuperSkrull

C3G MARVEL RELEASE SET

Possible Art Pix



The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the xxx set. Its model number and name is #'s xxx/Super Skrull




Possible Mini Pix (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1139415&postcount=32)



Background:
(INSERT BACKGROUND PICTURE FOR THE MINIATURE)

SuperSkrull

Skrull
Unique Hero
Champion
Malevolent
Medium 5

LIFE = 6
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 2
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 6
POINTS = 350?


ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks SuperSkrull with a normal attack, and SuperSkrull rolls at least 3 shields, SuperSkrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of SuperSkrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.


INVISIBILITY
SuperSkrull can move through all figures, is never attacked when leaving an engagement, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.


LAVA RESISTANT
SuperSkrull never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage and does not have to stop in molten lava spaces.

Flying Symbol
Superstrength
_________________________________________________________________


Character Bio - (Insert character Bio)




-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A


_________________________________________________________________-Combinations and Synergies-


Synergy Benefits Received


Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
N/ASynergy Benefits Offered


Marvel:
N/AClassic:
N/AC3G:
N/A_________________________________________________________________



-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

(Insert initial playtest here)
(Insert second playtest here)
(Insert third playtest here)

[NecroBlade]

Rock Wall Defense 4 seems really lame here. Odds of 4 shields on 6 dice are really low, and it only deals 1 wound. It's barely better than Counter Strike...when 4 or more skulls are rolled. I think that power needs help.

[Hahma]

Rock Wall Defense 4 seems really lame here. Odds of 4 shields on 6 dice are really low, and it only deals 1 wound. It's barely better than Counter Strike...when 4 or more skulls are rolled. I think that power needs help.


I started playtesting Thing and Rock Wall came up to put the final wound on GL (Hal) and Magneto (who had 3 wounds and didn't want to disengage). As I said in the Thing thread, I could have tried to stay back and snip Thing with those flying ranged guys, though Hal has a low enough range for Thing to engage often on terrain that doesn't have extreme height.

Also, this morning he would have dealt a RW4 wound to Wonder Woman had he not been lassoed and gotten that power negated.

So that's 3 times that he rolled it in 5 games so far, not too bad. Now the difference with Thing is that when he's teamed up with the FF, he'll get defense bonus from Sue and that will up his chances for RW4 to work. Super Skrull doesn't have that, but he can fly, so he can get height often for defense of 7 and get the RW4 to work once in a while. But, the thing about Super Skrull that is better in RW4 regard is that Super Skrull has to be attacked by an adjacent figure unless a ranged figure can attack him w/o clear line of sight, like Darkseid or Area of Effect type attacks like shotgun or explosions. So most attackers will have to engage Super Skrull, that just means that there is a whole lot more chances for RW4 to work with him because he'll be rolling defense dice vs. melee attacks more than Thing will, as people will want to try to get at Thing with range as much as possible and can.

[Griffin]

Rock Wall Defense 4 seems really lame here. Odds of 4 shields on 6 dice are really low, and it only deals 1 wound. It's barely better than Counter Strike...when 4 or more skulls are rolled. I think that power needs help.

It is a lot more likely to happen when Invisible Woman is boosting his defense by 4. I did a silly little test run with the Fan 4, and it was definitely a factor, but it also scared the other player away too. Thing is a great menacer.

[IAmBatman]

Good points, Hahma - and don't forget that once you're engaged with Super Skrull, you stay engaged with Super Skrull. So he's going to face 100% melee attacks, upping the odds for the power to work.
That said, since he's unlikely to receive Invisible Woman as backup, I'd say that we should run him as is in the initial playtest and if it doesn't come up enough, drop it to Rock Wall 3.

[IAmBatman]

Griff expressed some concern to me about SuperSkrull not being very dynamic as is (Invisibility forces you to get adjacent and then you're stuck to him and pretty much forced to just do melee attacks until one of you dies). I know one of the things we both really like about SuperHeroscape is all the movement around the battlefield.
So here's a proposal of something we might do -
Keep Lava Resistance and Invisibility, but scrap Rock Wall Defense 4 and Rubber Wrap and replace them with this:

ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If an adjacent figure attacks SuperSkrull with a normal attack, and SuperSkrull rolls at least 3 shields, SuperSkrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of SuperSkrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.

[Griffin]

Love it. :D:up:

[Hahma]

ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks SuperSkrull with a normal attack, and SuperSkrull rolls at least 3 shields, SuperSkrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of SuperSkrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.

I really like the new power, but thought it might need a size restriction.

[Griffin]

ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks SuperSkrull with a normal attack, and SuperSkrull rolls at least 3 shields, SuperSkrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of SuperSkrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.I really like the new power, but thought it might need a size restriction.
Yeah I could support that for sure. :D

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, fair enough. Are we sure we want to restrict this to just normal attacks? (Though, it's not like you can attack this guy from range, so, actually, yeah, he needs some kind of counter).

Edit: Definitely in favor of the size restriction. Unless we have any objections, I think you can go ahead and make that update, Griff.

[Griffin]

Hmm, fair enough. Are we sure we want to restrict this to just normal attacks? (Though, it's not like you can attack this guy from range, so, actually, yeah, he needs some kind of counter).

Edit: Definitely in favor of the size restriction. Unless we have any objections, I think you can go ahead and make that update, Griff.
You could update it too... but neither of us are the LD. ;)

[IAmBatman]

Yep, but it's your post and the LD was in support. :-P

[Griffin]

:up:dated

[Hahma]

So what's this guy looking at points-wise? 320-350?

[Griffin]

I think he is worth about 360.

[Hahma]

Sounds good. Update first post with that please. :D

[Griffin]

Done.

[Hahma]

Thanks

[IAmBatman]

So is this guy ready for an initial playtest? Should I bump him forward on my list? (I have a list tracking the progress of all the designs up on my computer's "sticky note" program). Right now I've got She-Hulk, Hand Ninjas, Doctor Doom, Doombots, Guy Gardner, and the Hostage Holdout Scenario as eligible for initial playtests.

[Hahma]

I'd say so unless anyone has any objections.

[Griffin]

So is this guy ready for an initial playtest? Should I bump him forward on my list? (I have a list tracking the progress of all the designs up on my computer's "sticky note" program). Right now I've got She-Hulk, Hand Ninjas, Doctor Doom, Doombots, Guy Gardner, and the Hostage Holdout Scenario as eligible for initial playtests.
I am finishing Doom right now, and then I will finish the Scenario, which is mostly finished now anyways.

[Hahma]

We can only get done what we can, between the 3 of us. We have our normal unit designs going on, FF4 and 2 public design threads going all at once, so we get to what we can. Speaking of which, Green Goblin will likely be ready soon too. :)

[IAmBatman]

I think we're kicking butt right now.

[A3n]

I think we're kicking butt right now.
And taking names. :p

[GreyOwl]

Reminds me of the old Duke Nukem video game - "Time to kick a$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum!" :p

[Griffin]

Reminds me of the old Duke Nukem video game - "Time to kick a$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum!" :p
When I use to compete in kickboxing and grappling, before the fights, I would tell that to all the guys in the locker room to try and psyche them out, but mostly it was just funny. :lol:

[A3n]

Reminds me of the old Duke Nukem video game - "Time to kick a$$ and chew bubble gum....and I'm all out of gum!" :p

I thought that to :D. But the quote has been used in a few movies, "...kicking a$$ & taking names." Having used the quote I still don't quite understand the taking names bit :shrug:.

[IAmBatman]

So ... should I add this guy to my "ready for an initial playtest" list?

[Hahma]

sure

[SirGalahad]

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Clobberin Time set. Its model number and name is #090 / Super Skrull.

[NecroBlade]

I know we're trying to fit a lot into one card here, but I have a question about Rock Wall Bounce Back... a few people said that while Super Skrull has all of the Fan 4's powers, what he lacks is their creativity... so I'm wondering if we should really be combining Thing and Mr. F into one power like this?

[IAmBatman]

I was not aware of that thematic aspect of the character and I'm not sure how many people are or would be (or would necessarily be bothered by that). I think we might want to run that one by the ERB and see how they respond.
Honestly, I think it's more important to fans (and myself for that matter) to see powers representing all four of the Fan Four clearly. And it seems like the only other good way to do that is with four powers, and that seems like a tad much for the card.

[GreyOwl]

We could simply do it with 3 powers for Sue, Johnny, and Mr. Fantastic, with a high defense and Life to represent the Thing...?

[IAmBatman]

I suppose - but if a lot of our fans didn't get the theme behind Telekinetic Throw until we added "Throw" to it, I'm not sure they'd get the Thing theme without a power spelling it out to some extent.

[Griffin]

I like the front page, and I especially like that the Fan 4 powers are represented by actual powers and not just stats.

[NecroBlade]

I don't remember who said it, but I remember it being brought up as a thematic factoid. :shrug:

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, don't remember that one. I guess seeing all the Fan Four represented on the card is a more important thematic element for me.
But, we each have our own opinions on the matter. :-) I'll be happy to let the lead designers here (you and Hahma) suss out which are the most popular.

[NecroBlade]

Oh I definitely agree all 4 Fan 4 should be represented on the card in some way, preferably in powers not just stats, but someone said it (who was it already - speak up!) and I just wanted to make sure this combining of powers didn't go against the theme of the character (maybe Spidey can weigh in?).

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Well, in the past when he faced of with the Fantastic 4, the weakeness that the F4 would frequently exploit is Kl'rt's inability to use the powers effectively together; he only had a basic understanding of each's abilities. More recently (in the Annihilus Wave storyline) he has shown himself to be much more accomplished using the powers together, after 25 or so years, one would hope he had learned a thing or 2 about them. So, yea, I think it is thematic.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think a gray hitzone can take care of Sue Storm's powers. I think a strong Attack and Defense number can handle translating Thing's powers. I think he needs Super-Strength and Flying. He should have a base Range similar to Reed's card. Then He should have a Special Attack and Fire Immunity to represent Johnny. If we would prefer to lower his defense, I could see him having a one shield defense.

One thing about Kl'rt is that while he has the powers of the whole FF and that is a ton of firepower, he has none of their creativity. His using each of their powers in one specific way seems thematic to me. I see him using Johnny and Ben's powers for Offense and Sue and Reed's for Defense.
BTW, Necro, I am the one you were refering to.

[Hahma]

According to Spidey, Super Skrull seems to be able to combine some powers.

After looking at Rockwall Bounceback again, it got me thinking that he'd only be able to be attacked by adjacent figures (other than area of affect attacks or other odd attacks) and then had a good chance to inflict a wound on the adjacent attacker, as well as bouncing a non-SS or Flyer off height to take another wound or into lava, or adjacent to Blob or Gladiatrons. That seems really sick as that would involve him controlling not only Thing's and Mr. Fantastic's power at the same time, but also Invisible Woman as he'd be invisible to non-adjacent attacks. So I wonder if this tweek to Invisibility would be a little better.

PARTIAL INVISIBILITY (name may need to change :))
Super Skrull can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. If Super Skrull is not engaged to an opponent's figure, he cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.

[Griffin]

According to Spidey, Super Skrull seems to be able to combine some powers.

After looking at Rockwall Bounceback again, it got me thinking that he'd only be able to be attacked by adjacent figures (other than area of affect attacks or other odd attacks) and then had a good chance to inflict a wound on the adjacent attacker, as well as bouncing a non-SS or Flyer off height to take another wound or into lava, or adjacent to Blob or Gladiatrons. That seems really sick as that would involve him controlling not only Thing's and Mr. Fantastic's power at the same time, but also Invisible Woman as he'd be invisible to non-adjacent attacks. So I wonder if this tweek to Invisibility would be a little better.

PARTIAL INVISIBILITY (name may need to change :))
Super Skrull can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. If Super Skrull is not engaged to an opponent's figure, he cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.
I hear your points, and I get your changes, but I do prefer it a bit more streamlined than that. I still like the front page better, but I could go with this if others are into it.

[Hahma]

I hear your points, and I get your changes, but I do prefer it a bit more streamlined than that. I still like the front page better, but I could go with this if others are into it.

It's not a big deal to me one way or the other really, I was just thinking how tough this guy is going to be. But ultimately, playtesting will show whether the combination of Invisibility and Rockwall Bouceback would be too much or not. In fact, if testing shows that the front page version is balanced for his cost, then I'd prefer that myself.

[IAmBatman]

I dig Partial Invisibility - theme wise I dig him not being as powerful with the Fan Four's powers as they are - and in terms of Hahma's gameplay concerns, I agree that this would be a fun solution.

[whitestuff]

I dig Partial Invisibility - theme wise I dig him not being as powerful with the Fan Four's powers as they are - and in terms of Hahma's gameplay concerns, I agree that this would be a fun solution.
I think that I prefer Hahma's Partial Invisibilty.

If you think about it, if he is engaged with another figure then that other figure could easily point out where he is... if you get my drift...

[A3n]

I dig Partial Invisibility - theme wise I dig him not being as powerful with the Fan Four's powers as they are - and in terms of Hahma's gameplay concerns, I agree that this would be a fun solution.
I think that I prefer Hahma's Partial Invisibilty.

If you think about it, if he is engaged with another figure then that other figure could easily point out where he is... if you get my drift...

Agreed. :thumbsup: Hahma

[NecroBlade]

I like it too, Hahma. Shall we put it to a vote (to make sure; who doesn't remember Colossus? :p)?

So for each member of the Fan 4, here's what's represented on Super Skrull's card:

Sue - Flying, Invisibility, possibly Defense
Reed - Range 2, Bounce Back
Johnny - Flying, Lava Resistant, possibly Range 2 and Attack?
Ben - Rock Wall, Defense, Attack

Also, in the second post it says SS would have a grey hit-zone...that's not necessary with the Invisibility power, right (and in fact I think it would cause a lot of headaches)?

[Hahma]

We can put it up for a vote, but Griff or Bats would have to change the title of the thread to add "Vote" in there if he could.

I propose to vote on which version of Invisibility Super Skrull should have.

I changed it from Partial to Limited as I thought that Partial might mean only part of him was invisible. But it can be changed back of course or something totally different.

So do we like A

LIMITED INVISIBILITY or PARTIAL INVISIBILITY :D
Super Skrull can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. If Super Skrull is not engaged to an opponent's figure, he cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.


B

INVISIBILITY
Super Skrull can move through all figures, is never attacked when leaving an engagement, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.

Or C

Something different (please post suggested chage)


The more I thought about it, I like A. I think it would be neat to see the Thing adjacent to SS and allowing Johnny to attack SS with range, or taking a chance of attacking SS and risking RWBB and then Thing would take a wound and Johnny couldn't attack SS with range anymore. It would also allow for SS to decide to stay in adjacency to attack or Leave Engagement so he'd be Invisible again vs. range. It might be fun.



And regarding the grey hit-zone. I believe for Invisible powered figures, we were going the route of Martian Manhunter and his Intangible where it spelled it out in the power that he couldn't be hit from non-adjacent and didn't need a grey hit-zone.

[NecroBlade]

Right, having both would be redundant, confusing, or both.

And I like A as well (cool scenario you described there).

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Make mine A as well.

[Griffin]

I like B. Simplicity and it is easier to remember the one power when playing the game, as oppose to trying to learn both.

[GreyOwl]

I like A as well.

[A3n]

A :thumbsup: - I don't think it's complicated & it adds a risk/reward strategy to attacking him.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Well, since I am proxying for Bats and Hahma for SirG it looks like A-7, B-1, C-0 with Whitey still to vote.

[IAmBatman]

lol - put me down for A anyway (though I really prefer the name "Partial Invisibility" - probably because my Super Skrull sculpt is the one with one invisible arm).
I really love the tactics this brings in that Hahma talked about.
I'm also fully on the no grayed out hitzones because that's just confusing bandwagon. Also, if you nullify someone with a grey hitzone's powers, they still have a grey hitzone ... seems like a bit of a theme break.

[whitestuff]

A all the way.

I like Partial Invisibility as well.

[Hahma]

Looks like the proposal passes 8-1

Seems like Partial Invisibility was the name of choice for those that commented, so if someone would be so kind as to add the below power to the first page, I'd be much obliged. :D

PARTIAL INVISIBILITY
Super Skrull can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. If Super Skrull is not engaged to an opponent's figure, he cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.

[IAmBatman]

Updated! :thumbsup:
This is one sexy looking card. Did we ever determine if his proper height is 5 or 6?

[Hahma]

Thanks Bats. I just measured and he's a 5 for sure, his head is even a little shorter than Huntress and Hawkgirl, but he's like in the middle of the 5th level tiles.

[IAmBatman]

Height updated! Thanks, Hahma.
I think I'm going to playtest Puppet Master next, but Super Skrull is #2 on my "to do" list.

[Hahma]

Thanks for the updates Bats and the card. ;)

After Guy, I'll see what's available at the time. :D

[SirGalahad]

Well, since I am proxying for Bats and Hahma for SirG it looks like A-7, B-1, C-0 with Whitey still to vote.
Wait ----

I haven't left yet ---

But I still like A

[Griffin]

Also, in the second post it says SS would have a grey hit-zone...that's not necessary with the Invisibility power, right (and in fact I think it would cause a lot of headaches)?

I know that second post looks like a designer's notes post, but it was just my original brainstorming. I am not the LD here, I just impatiently started all the Fan 4 threads. :) I agree that since we are going all option A here, a Grey Hitzone would not be a good idea at all.

[Hahma]

Well, since I am proxying for Bats and Hahma for SirG it looks like A-7, B-1, C-0 with Whitey still to vote.
Wait ----

I haven't left yet ---

But I still like A

Guess we jumped the gun a little. So when exactly do you leave? I don't want to vote for you while you're still here. :)

[IAmBatman]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT SUPERSKRULL

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?

TEST 1
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. Supergirl (320)
Supergirl won on Round 4, Turn 1, with 2 life left on her card. Her Special Attack was a nice counter to Rockwall Bounce Back, but it didn't generate enough skulls most of the time to do any damage. At the same time, her Kryptonian Defense slowed Superskrull's attack. Supergirl finally finished him off by switching to her normal attack and he didn't hit the Rockwall Bounce Back.
This was a bad match up for Superskrull, but he still felt like he could've won.

TEST 2
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. Sinestro (330)
Sinestro wins in Round 2, Turn 3, with one wound on his card and full batteries. Superskrull doesn't hold up well to special attacks - and Sinestro has a mean one.

TEST 3
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. Green Lantern (Hal Jordan - 350)
Game 1: Superskrull wins on his first turn, with no wounds. Superskrull rolls 5 skulls on a normal attack on Hal who, at full strength, decides to defend. He only rolls 1 shield on 7 dice, though, and dies.
Game 2: I did a rematch due to the sudden results of game 1. Hal won this one in Round 2, Turn 2, with 3 wounds and 2 Battery Markers gone. This one was extremely close, despite Hal never hitting a Fearless Charge roll. Hal received one wound from Rockwall Bounce Back 3 and Super Strength prevented him from taking more from falling damage. This one felt pretty balanced, and factoring in the Game 1 results, I'm thinking 350 might be more appropriate for Superskrull. That said, this is a guy who should actually get worse in Army play, due to Partial Invisibility.

TEST 4
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. Hulk 370
Partial Invisibility doesn't concern Hulk, and Rockwall Bounce Back just makes him angrier (though adding in extra Super Leaps up to the central platform doesn't help his attack numbers any). Superskrull wins with 1 life left, on Turn 3 of Round 2, after putting one wound on Hulk with Rockwall Bounceback, and following it with another 4 wounds from extreme height advantage. Hulk managed to get in one really nice punch on Superskrull, but that single Rockwall Bounceback was a game changer.

TEST 5
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. Darkseid 380
Darkseid, destroyer of all things, had no trouble here. After a couple of turns positioning, the duo finished the First Round like so: Darkseid Omega Effect blasts Superskrull for 3 wounds (despite SS having height) but can't hit the D20 roll, Superskrull moves adjacent and puts 2 wounds on Darkseid, despite being intimidated, and Darkseid rolls 8 skulls for his normal attack, Superskrull whiffs on 5 defense dice, and Superskrull is dead with only 2 wounds on Darkseid. Total destruction here. I'd say at this point 370 is the ceiling, 340 is the floor, and 350 or 360 is probably the sweet spot.

TEST 6
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. Huntress and Punisher (350)
Superskrull won this one on Round 2, Turn 3, with one wound. With Partial Invisibility kicking in, Superskrull stopped Huntress from maximizing her crossbow (or even, really, getting off a single attack) and stopped Punisher from using his Rockets at all. Those were major blows to the Vigilantes. Superskrull took out Huntress from range of 2 and height with his first strike, so she was out of the picture in Round 1. Punisher did his best to engage Superskrull and use that Shotgun special attack to get around Rockwall Bounceback 3, but 1 wound was all he could get with 3 attack on 6 defense before Superskrull's attacks of 6 took him out. I thought the vulnerability to special attacks would make Superskrull weaker against midlevel heroes, but not so.

TEST 7
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. Green Arrow and Black Canary (340)
Superskrull kicked some butt here. He beat Black Canary and Green Arrow on Turn 1 of Round 3. I tried lining Green Arrow up for some Cupid's Arrow action, but he ended up getting smacked around by an engaging Superskrull. Black Canary put two wounds on Superskrull with her special attack, but couldn't hit him again and his attacks and mobility proved too great. Based on the butt kicking he's done against mid level heroes, I'm thinking 350 might be his floor with up to 370 still open for debate, but probably no higher than 360. Depending on how he does against squads, I think 340 might be out.


_____________________________________________________________

- Squad / Does it pass?
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull vs. 4th Massachusetts Line x5 (350 points)
Round 6, Turn 2, Superskrull wins this one with 5 wounds on his card. He killed 3 of the 4th Mass with his Rock Wall Bounce Back, and the rest with his normal attack. Partial Invisibility prevented the 4th from ever using Wait Then Fire, and Superskrull was able to take advantage of the height often. Superskrull seems competitive with all heroes in the 320-370 range, whoops on Mid-Level heroes in the 340-350 point range, and seemed more than balanced against 350 points worth of squads. 350 points is my new floor on this guy and I think 360-370 are still in the picture.
_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull (350), Count Vertigo (160), Joker (190) (700) vs. Cyclops, Jean Grey, Mystique, Blob (700)
Superskrull's team wins in Round 6, Turn 2, with 2 life left for Superskrull and full life for Joker. Superskrull was essentially his team's entire offense and even Reorganized Chaos had limited effect thanks to Mutant Field Commander. Blob held Superskrull down for a while, but the Mutants couldn't put many wounds on him in the meantime. Superskrull is feeling more and more like 360+.
_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Superskrull (350) and Green Arrow (150), Black Canary (190), Punisher (180), and Robin (120) (990) vs. Martian Manhunter, Colossus, Wolverine, Iceman (990)
A big special attack (Cyclops) and alternate ways of adding wounds (Jean Grey/Mystique) weren't enough last time, but I'm hoping big normal attacks (Martian Manhunter, Colossus, Wolverine), and a big special attack (Iceman) will make a difference here. Superskrull has a lot of back up too!
If it weren't for an epic comeback by Wolverine in which he dispatched of Green Arrow, Black Canary, Punisher, and Robin (in that order) singlehandedly, this one would've been all Skrull. Wolverine wins with 2 wounds on his card (though he healed 10 wounds besides that over the course of the game!) Superskrull took out both Martian Manhunter and Iceman singlehandedly (450 points) despite Iceman having that great special attack, Martian Manhunter being Intangible, and Colossus and Wolverine trying to hunt Superskrull down.
This also featured the might of the Black Canary, Green Arrow, Robin triple attack being unleashed on Colossus to spell his doom, two missed damage rolls for Fastball Special (despite the throws helping launch Wolvie into the thick of things), and a great end game with Wolvie facing down Punisher's rockets and assault rifle with Robin tossing batarangs to boot. Fun game that ultimately felt balanced, though I definitely wouldn't put Superskrull under 350 points!

This guy is ready for ERB and playtesting, in my opinion! I think he passes at 350-360 points when all is said and done (but further platyests will decide!

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Bats, did you test him with Option A? Cause it looks like it passes.

[IAmBatman]

I tested what's on the first post. :-) Which, I believe, was updated with option A.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Oops! Just got caught up here and missed that at the top of the page! :oops:

[IAmBatman]

I've got all the heavy hitter and mid level hero tests done - squad test will likely be done tomorrow and army tests in the next couple of days. He's feeling anywhere from 340-370 for me so far, but probably 350 or 360.

[Hahma]

Great stuff Bats, thanks for the testing on this guy. It seems like 350 might be the floor considering his Partial Invisibility really messing up mid-levels. It would also mess up Stingers/10th/4th/Protectors of Ullar.

We'll have to see how he does vs. squads and army tests to see if losing PI hurts him enough to keep down at 350 or if he could go to 360-370. Seems pretty versatile so far.

vBulletin Message You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to IAmBatman again.


Someone please rep Bats if you can

[Griffin]

Great stuff Bats, thanks for the testing on this guy. It seems like 350 might be the floor considering his Partial Invisibility really messing up mid-levels. It would also mess up Stingers/10th/4th/Protectors of Ullar.

We'll have to see how he does vs. squads and army tests to see if losing PI hurts him enough to keep down at 350 or if he could go to 360-370. Seems pretty versatile so far.

vBulletin Message You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to IAmBatman again.
Someone please rep Bats if you can
Got em. Still not yellow though. :?

[IAmBatman]

14 rep points away from that elusive yellow bar. :-P
And, yeah, 4th Mass x5 are the plan today. With his ability to disengage and fly and his range of 2, I think he should be able to prevent Wait Then Fire from ever occurring.

[Griffin]

Go yellow or go home. :D

[NecroBlade]

I see yellow.

[IAmBatman]

Squad test added - this guy is a pretty nice 4th Mass counter.

Edit: Heh, sweet. :-D

[A3n]

What does the yellow pip signify?

[IAmBatman]

Awesomeness? :reapershrug:
This? :johnwoo2: (but with penguins)
Or it could just be that the first five pips are one color, the next five another color, and the final five another color ... :-P So it just means I'm now over 4,000 rep.

[IAmBatman]

One army test done, one to go. This guy is feeling 360ish to me. He's just plain nasty.

[IAmBatman]

Initial playtest is complete! He's a beast, worth 350-360 for sure. :-) Right now I'd lean towards 360 to be safe, but I'll wait and see what other tests say. 340 would definitely be too low.

[Griffin]

Oh no! Batman with the Yellow Power! :woot:

[IAmBatman]

Soo ... I think we forgot about this guy, but he should be ready for the ERB. :-)
preemptive yea vote!

[Hahma]

I Propose Super Skrull moves to ERB

[A3n]

Yea - he looks good.

[IAmBatman]

Also yea for GreyOwl (just to make it easier to remember who we're waiting on or not)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea from me and Necro.

[Griffin]

yea

[IAmBatman]

Is someone proxying for Whitestuff right now? It's down to him and Sir G. :-)

[SirGalahad]

Yea

[whitestuff]

I'm my own again.

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Sweet! This passes to ERB!

[Hahma]

PM sent for ERB

[IAmBatman]

Good stuff! I predict that Mr. Helm will not be feeling this one (it's pretty different from his own SuperSkrull ...). Hopefully he sees the gameplay value of what's here, though, cuz I can tell you that he's a lot of fun! :-)

[Hahma]

We'll see what the old man has to say. :D

[Hahma]

Did everyone get my pm when I sent this guy to ERB? I ask because I sent it yesterday around the same time (5:30 am CST) and still haven't heard from either MH or BIV yet. I just want to make sure the PM went through.

[SirGalahad]

I got it.

[Hahma]

I got it.

Great. And I also now know it went through because The B.I.V. just pm'd me with his response.

Here it is:

Pretty cool.

Rock Wall BB: "...A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back takes any falling damage that may apply.

Partial Invis: "...he cannot be the target of a non-adjacent attack, or any special power that requires clear sight."

Me likee! :thumbsup:

Brandon

[IAmBatman]

Rock Wall BB's wording is based on the official Knockback 14. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/2/shurrak_card_original.jpg)

[Hahma]

Rock Wall BB's wording is based on the official Knockback 14. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/2/shurrak_card_original.jpg)

Then we're set there. :D

[Hahma]

Matt Helm had a bit more to say about Super Skrull than The B.I.V.


I hate to do this my man but I have a lot of comments on this one. I'll start with theasy one that I know your whole group will disagree with me on.

1) I do not believe he needs Lava Resistant. I'm sure it will end up on Human Torch as well so I guess you guys won't listen to me here but I think it is not a needed mechanic for most flame heroes and really just adds clutter to an already crowded card. Basically, if Silver Surfer, Superman and Doomsday aren't lava resistant, why would the Flame Power folks be? I know it is so that when you write up Flame Power attacks you can make Lava resistant folks immune but I just don't know why it can't be accepted that the concussive force alone could cause damage. Anyway, the power is written fine so obviously it's C3G choice.

2) Partial Invisibility - Does it really need the extra immunity to Special Powers that need line of Sight? I think we sometimes concern ourselves with "over-theming" it. Simpler is sometimes better and I'd suggest "... cannot be targeted for attack by a non-adjacent figure." I would justify it by saying that Special Power don't always need to be aimed whereas Special Attacks due. Special powers that require line of sight can still be used if you just catch a peak for a split second and you can focus on where your "target" is. I don't know, but I just don't like the complexity of adding in special powers.

3) Rock Wall Bounce Back seems to have holes.
a) the sentence "The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location." needs fixing. A space is always on the same level as its current location because a space doesn't move. What you want to say is that the space must be on the same level or lower than the space that the affected figure occupied before the bounce back.
b) Is it really a bounce back if you choose a space that is on the exact opposite side of Super Skrull? Seems more of a matador move. But this is minor and I can live with it.
c) Is "non-flying" an acceptable substitution for "does not have the Flying or Stealth Flying special power." And why limit them anyway? If you do that than don't you want swingers to be able to avoid falling damage to? What about stretchers? I would probably leave that nugget off all together and once again think simpler (less complex).
d) "moved lower by..." I think the word lower can be removed because in order for falling damage to apply, it is mandatory that the figure was moved lower. More importantly though, you need to address if the moved figures receive leaving engagement attacks or not.

e) Finally, I'm not sure I love the theme here. You've basically made Super Skrull's strategy to use his body like a trampoline and I'm not sure if that's part of his MO.

On a final comment that's not necessarily a critical point. mechanically, you've made it very scary to attack him with an adjacent normal attack. I guess players will likely engage Super Skrull with a figure that they don't plan on attacking him with just to expose him to ranged units. The figure would then take a pounding with no OM's to fight back. I guess that's what you plan on using the Thing for.

[IAmBatman]

1) He doesn't even expect us to pay attention to this, so I won't.
2) We set a clear precedent with Martian Manhunter and then Invisible Woman that I think we're all happy with - so I'm prepared to disregard this comment as well.
3) All of the wording he took fault with is taken directly from Knockback 14 on an official card. I like the theme of non-flying - I think it's fun to use the flying powers and super strength powers for synergies more. If other people aren't digging that part, it's cool, but I think it's a fun twist. And I think when bounced back, it's easier to recover by flying than in the other situations. (And do we have any stretchy guys that don't also have super strength anyway?).
I wouldn't expect Matt Helm to love the theme here, as it's a card he's done his own version of that's very different. I can say he's fun to play, though and has a lot more going on for him that's exciting and interesting in gameplay than other versions of the character I've seen done.
Basically, I'm not seeing anything here convincing me changes are needed.

[Hahma]

Yeah, I figured you'd played him and knew how he worked and if there were any issues with the powers. Matt's SS is a lot different and simpler but we strive for better than simple. There's a lot to do to get SS pretty good with all that he can do so I think we did a good job in incorporating as much as we can in a cool way. Simple powers and cards can be used where required, but when doing so many cards, if we kept everything simple then we'd be running out of powers and overlapping units with too many similar stats/powers.

[IAmBatman]

I'm glad we're on the same page. :-)

[Griffin]

I could barely stomach that ERB report honestly. Matt obviously doesn't know as much about "official wording" as he gives himself credit for, his design aesthetics are so very different from ours (which is fine, but we are not asking our ERB members to redesign our cards), and for a good ERB response, I think a member needs to understand our C3G cards like Martian Manhunter, and I don't think that he does.

~ Griff, disappointingly in disagreement

[IAmBatman]

Preemptive yea to move this guy to playtesting. :-) 'Dem allies are hungry.

[Hahma]

I propose Super Skrull moves to Playtesting

[A3n]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

yea for GreyOwl too. :-)

[SirGalahad]

yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Two Yeas from me.

[IAmBatman]

Down to Griff and Whitey!

[Griffin]

Yea.

[whitestuff]

Yea ... at last... :D

[Hahma]

The proposal passes and Super Skrull is moved to playtesting phase. Wow, that was a quick vote, nice. :D

[IAmBatman]

Sweet. Go team! :-D

[Hahma]

Test sheet from tcglkn

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Super Skrull

- THEME TEST/
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/
PASS

- BONDING TEST/
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/
PASS

- POWER CHECK/
PASS

- FUN TEST/
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/
PASS

- USAGE TEST/
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? PASS


TEST 1
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull (340) VS Green Lantern Hal Jordan (350)
Super Skrull won on Round 2 Turn 3 with 4 wounds.
Super Skrull was able to get Rock Wall Bounce Back 3 a few times this game since he always had to engage Super Skrull. Hal was able to avoid Molten Lava damage by simply staying lower than Super Skrull and lower than the Lava so he couldn't be bounced up onto it.

TEST 2
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull (340) VS Silver Surfer (320)
Super Skrull won on Round 1 Turn 3.
With some better positioning of Super Skrull, I was able to get a Bounce Back and forced Silver Surfer into Molten Lava.

TEST 3
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull (340) VS Kaemon Awa and Captain America (340)
Kaemon Awa and Captain won on Round 3 Turn 1 (Initiative Switch) Captain had 4 wounds and Kaemon was in full health.
Captain American engaged Super Skrull, and didn't attack. (Not to risk being moved away by Bounce Back). Between his Counter Strike and Kaemon Awa's deadly Quick Release, they made short work of Super Skrull. (Whose attacks were starting to get the Captain, the Initiative switch came at a good time for this team.)

TEST 4
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull (340) VS Major Q9 and Shurrak (Range and Lava Resistance combo)
Super Skrull won with 4 wounds on Round 2 Turn 2.
I sent Shurrak up to engage Super Skrull on the Lava. And then shot at him relentlessly with Q9, Shurrak didn't last long as a screen after a few good attack from Super Skrull. Q9 then whiffed on a good attack from Super Skrull, taking 4 wounds. :sad:

TEST 5
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull (340) VS Fen Hydra and Tul-Kul-Na (340)
Super Skull won on Round 3 Turn 1. With 3 wounds.
My strategy was to engage Super Skrull with Tul-Kul-Na, stomp away then attack (Due to my size I was immune to Bounce Back), But I don't think I've seen so many failed Stomps in one game. Tul-Kul-Na went down pretty early and the Hydra put 3 wounds on the Super Skrull, but not enough before it started losing Heads.





_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass? PASS
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull (340) VS Protectors of Ullar x3 (330)
Super Skrull won on Round 4, Turn 1 with 5 wounds.

I wanted to test Super Skrull against the ultimate Hero Killer. I knew if he was going to stand a chance at all I would have to get him on the highest part of the map, which also happened to be Lava. The Protectors had to keep one engaged to him in order to be able to attack at all. But the Protector's 3 attack just wasn't enough to get through Super Skrull's 6 Defense plus height. Multiple Protectors fell to Lava Field damage and Super Skrull was able to take out almost 1 per turn with his high attack. (Never having to move due to the Protectors having to come to him)



_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? PASS
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull, Silver Surfer, Eldgrim the Viking Champion and Isamu (700) VS Thor, Flash and Marcu (700) (Is it just me or do fillers ruin the theme of my armies? We need more filler level Heroes both good and bad!)
Thor Wins with 5 wounds. Round 7 Turn 3

Eldrim went out early to try and die. He did that very well (one hit from Flash), and his Spirit went on Super Skrull. Flash Sprinted to Super Skrull's start zone and getting a couple of quick hits on him (only one wound). Silver Surfer then attacks Flash but Flash blanks out (The first time I was excited about that!) and runs away. Only coming back to hit Silver Surfer from height (2 wounds!) Super Skrull then moved to attack Flash (Super Skrull with height) and Flash managed to get 4 Skulls to match the 4 rolled by Super Skrull. Flash went out in one hit. I then sent Marcu out to try and weaken Silver Surfer and he did another 2 wounds before dying. (Silver Surfer with 4 wounds, and Super Skrull with 1 wound VS a full health Thor) Thor managed to quickly take out Silver Surfer and went to take out Super Skrull. (each only having 1 wound) Super Skrull lasted for a while in one on one vs Thor, enough to get him down to 4 life left, but Thor prevailed, Isamu came out trying to earn his keep in this battle of the Supers. He actually got 1 wound but Thor proved too much for the cheap little Ninja.

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? PASS
Map: Ember Canyon Road
Units: Super Skrull, Doctor Doom (Official), Thanos, and Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan (1000) VS Superman, Flash, and Hal Jordan (1000)
Superman's team wins on Round 5 Turn 2. Superman had 2 wounds, Flash had none, and Hal had 3 wounds. (The dice were with them, what can you say?)

Thanos moved out first, and Flash moved out to get at Doctor Doom and Super Skrull (ignoring Thanos), and actually taking out Johnny "Shotgun" before he got a turn. Thanos went up to attack Hal, and Hal blocked the attack. Flash went for Super Skrull next, and landed a couple of wounds. In the next round Super Skrull attacked Flash and Flash rolled a blank and went after Doctor Doom. Doctor Doom took height and attacked Flash, who blocked it. But Doctor Doom then got his Mind Exchange on Flash and sent him running to attack Hal Jordan. (No wounds there thankfully!) Superman then went out after Super Skrull and was able to take him out after a few good hits. Thanos then starts attacking and makes it hard to avoid him, so Hal tries to take him out, using a Power Battery in the process to shield from a good attack. Thanos goes down in a few turns and then Superman manages to take out Doctor Doom in a few attack and Thanos stays dead.

[Hahma]

I don't have time at the moment to look too closely at the army tests, but Super Skrull looked like a beast vs. HH and the Squad test.

And the test sheet needs to be linked to first page please. :D

[Griffin]

He looks like a bit of a powerhouse.

Playtest added to the front page.

[NecroBlade]

He does look pretty powerful, but also pretty darn close to 340 points. Good sheet from tcglkn.

[IAmBatman]

Yep - very detailed, useful results there. I think he slightly overperformed his cost in the heavy hitter and squad tests (if I was just basing it on those, I'd say 350 was better for him) but the army tests brought him back down to Earth, so 340 is still feeling solid to me. :-) Plus, I liked him at that when I tested him.
Thanks for doing the linking, Griff!

[Hahma]

Yeah, it sounds like he overperformed a bit in those tests because he wasn't as beastly in the army tests.

[Hahma]

CHECK LIST FOR FIGURE UNITS
- THEME TEST/
Pass.
- MIRROR TEST/
Pass.
- BONDING TEST/
Nothing I know of, pass.
- SYNERGIES TEST/
Same as above, pass.
- POWER CHECK/
Pass.

-
FUN TEST/ Pass, Rock Wall Bounce Back is fun.

-
FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Pass, but it isn't a whole lotta fun getting thrown around when your opponent rolls 3 shields...
- DRAFTING TEST/
Definately, pass.
- USAGE TEST/
All of 'em. Pass.
- STRATEGY TEST/
I would say yes, so pass.
PLAY TEST LIST FOR FIGURE UNITS
All tests done on Swamp Thing.
- HEAVY HITTER TEST
/ Vs. Thanos win: SuperSkrull w/ 2 wounds, Thanos had 1 bad defense roll.
Vs. Abomination win: Abomination w/ 6 wounds, this one was fair.
Vs. Silver Surfer win: SuperSkrull w/ 5 wounds, this one was also a fair fight.
Vs. Hal Jordan win: SuperSkrull w/ 0 wounds, he got lucky on a roll.
Vs. Arkillo win: SuperSkrull w/ 3 wounds, 1 lucky roll for the Skrull, and Arkillo had a bad Eviscerate.
- SQUAD TEST
/ Vs. 3x Minions of Utgar win: SuperSkrull w/ 0 wounds in Round 3, Turn 1, Rock Wall Bounce Back killed most of the Minions.
- ARMY TEST
/ Army 1: SuperSkrull, Venom, Iron Man, and 2x Omnicron Repulsors Vs. Black Canary, Zettian Guards, Deathwalker 9000, Major Q9, Major Q10, and 2x Rats.
Repulsors and Rats charge to the middle of the field first, and a fight brews. The Repulsors Overload their Circuits to kill 3 Rats and 2 additional from their Targeting during this first round fight. Finally, to end the brawl, a Rat kills a Repulsor (That's right, a rat. Rats killing things, it's obsurd!). Then SuperSkrull decides to join the fight and plops himself on a cliff, waiting for some scrumpsious prey to come along. Sure enough, along comes Black Canary, using her Cry to kill a Repulsor. SuperSkrull leaps into action, attacking Black Canary for 3 wounds. The Canary's retaliation only deals 1 wound to SuperSkrull. The Repulsors move again, this time killing 1 more Rat. Major Q9 hears Canary's call of distress and joins the fight, using his Quelix Gun to kill 2 Repulsors (his attack on SuperSkrull missed). Black Canary manages to deal 3 wounds to SuperSkrull, but her Fists of Fury backfire when Rock Wall Bounce Back kills her. All said and done, Q9 uses his Gun again, this time killing SuperSkrull with a 3 Skull to 1 Shield attack. It turned out to be a close fight between the Soulborgs and the remaining supers.
Army 2: SuperSkrull, Huntress, Joker, and 2x Armoc Vipers Vs. Wonder Woman, Batman, Taelord, and 2x Anubian Wolves.
Joker, winning initiative, Reorganized his opponents plans, and allowing the Vipers ot make the first move. Taelord flies u to a somewhat safe spot on height for attemped advantage to his team's attacks later on. The Vipers move again, and Batman comes in, flinging his Batarang and killing a Viper. SuperSkrull decided to move, setting himself atop a cliff, overlooking the fight in the middle of the battlefield. Batman flings another Batarang or two, this time killing 3 Vipers. Anubian Wolves move a little closer to the fight, but not close enough just yet. SuperSkrull makes his move, wounding Batman but then realizing, if he kills Batman Joker is useless. The Wolves Unleash ther Fury and wound the now vulnerable SuperSkrull. SuperSkrull needs a new target, so he flies up to Taelord and kills him after 2 attacks, thanks to a few misfires down below. Wonder Woman moves, but her attack on SuperSkrull causes her a wound and she gets Bounced Back off the cliff. She tries again, but the same thing happens. Huntress then leaps into action, moving a little closer to the sprawled units in the middle of the field. Another stealthy Batarang kills a Viper, and SuperSkrull wounds Wonder Woman. Wonder Womans retaliation gets through this time, dealing 4 wounds to SuperSkrull. SuperSkrull of course fight back, dealing another wound. The Wolves move again, this time killing Huntress, but sacrificing 2 of their own to Counterstrike. Wonder Woman gets her revenge by killing SuperSkrull, and in the end giving her team the win.
Analysis: SuperSkrull is a strong unit, but can be killed easily enough. He does hold his points, but then dies not long thereafter. I woud say anywhere from 300-350 is accurate for him.

[Hahma]

Above test sheet is from Scapemage. I don't have time to review it now, but will check it out later. Needs to be linked to first page please. :D

[IAmBatman]

Nothing in there to contradict the prevailing thought of 340. He did really well in heavy hitter and squad tests, then not so well in army tests.
I think after all three tests, 340 is still holding up. :-)

[IAmBatman]

So .... bumping this in case, you know, anybody feels like proposing he get moved to whole set testing or anything ... :-P

[NecroBlade]

Good test sheet from scapemage. 340 still sounds OK.

[IAmBatman]

Yep - I think all three playtesters felt best with him at 340.

[Hahma]

I propose Super Skrull moves to Whole Set Testing

[A3n]

I'm not sure about this wording:
ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Super Skrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.

It sounds like the space is being moved. What if it is replaced with:
The figure must land on a space that is the same level or lower than it's current location.

Cheers

[SirGalahad]

I'm not sure about this wording:
ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty same-level or lower space within 3 clear sight spaces of Super Skrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.


I used the Glyph of Verbage Reduction.

[whitestuff]

I'm not sure about this wording:
ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Super Skrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.It sounds like the space is being moved. What if it is replaced with:
The figure must land on a space that is the same level or lower than it's current location.CheersMy issue here the use of the term 'Bounce Back'. I may bounce back the figure... what exactly does that mean? What if the figure didn't move before attacking? Wouldn't it be better to just say 'move'? I think the title of the power is enough theme for the movement... :2cents:

[IAmBatman]

lol - I'm OK with adjustments like these. Just so you guys know, though, the wording is based on the official Knockback 14.
Still, I see a lot of improvements being made.

[A3n]

I'm not sure about this wording:
ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Super Skrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.It sounds like the space is being moved. What if it is replaced with:
The figure must land on a space that is the same level or lower than it's current location.CheersMy issue here the use of the term 'Bounce Back'. I may bounce back the figure... what exactly does that mean? What if the figure didn't move before attacking? Wouldn't it be better to just say 'move'? I think the title of the power is enough theme for the movement... :2cents:

That's how it is done in the official HS wordage. They say you can do such-&-such & then they say by & state what you actually have to do. I think the bounce back wordage still works whether they moved or not they can still be bounced back :D.

So I'm all good with Sir G's changes & once made you can have my Yea for whole set testing.

BTW, which official figure has the Knockback power?

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

He's one of the D2 ones - the power's called Knockback 14. I haven't ordered/played with any D2, so I don't have their names down very well ...

[IAmBatman]

Rock Wall Bounce Back 3 updated with improved wording by popular demand! :-)

[Hahma]

He's one of the D2 ones - the power's called Knockback 14. I haven't ordered/played with any D2, so I don't have their names down very well ...


Shurrak (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31403) is the new figure with the Knockback 14.

[IAmBatman]

Thanks! :-) All those crazy DnD names are hard for me to remember. It's a pretty useful official power to adapt for various purposes, though. It's been used here and I've used it on my Iron Man Mark IV's write up as well.

[Hahma]

Yeah, that Iron Man will be cool. :D

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I vote YEA to wholeset testing.

[Griffin]

I can't find a proposal, but yea. :reapershrug:

[IAmBatman]

It's on the page before this. A3n had some wording concerns that distracted a bit ... in fact, only now am I voting yea x2

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I propose Super Skrull moves to Whole Set TestingIt was here, Griff!

[whitestuff]

I'm not sure about this wording:
ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If a small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Super Skrull. The space must be on the same level as or lower than its current location. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.It sounds like the space is being moved. What if it is replaced with:
The figure must land on a space that is the same level or lower than it's current location.CheersMy issue here the use of the term 'Bounce Back'. I may bounce back the figure... what exactly does that mean? What if the figure didn't move before attacking? Wouldn't it be better to just say 'move'? I think the title of the power is enough theme for the movement... :2cents:

That's how it is done in the official HS wordage. They say you can do such-&-such & then they say by & state what you actually have to do. Yes, but in that case 'Knockback' is the name of the ability. Just like 'Mindshackle'. This ability is titled 'Rock Wall Bounce Back' and the whole name isn't being used...

I still say drop it and use 'move' instead.

[IAmBatman]

56 yeas, waiting on the last 34 ... we should be able to sort out final wording in the final editing phase, right?

[A3n]

Well mine is a YEA for final editing & work the text there. & Whitey I see what you mean now, but I still think it's fine, official cards use the verb (I think that's the right term - english who knows :shrug:) of the title like for Flying the text will say "fly".

Cheers

[whitestuff]

56 yeas, waiting on the last 34 ... we should be able to sort out final wording in the final editing phase, right?
Then Yea.

[IAmBatman]

Down to just Hahma and his +1 for Sir G or time ... has this expired on time yet? :-P

[Hahma]

Down to just Hahma and his +1 for Sir G or time ... has this expired on time yet? :razz:

Actually, I'm the one that proposed it that counts as my vote, so I'll add Sir G's Yea. Though, I think we still need Necro's as I didn't see his vote in here. The last I saw of him was when he said it looked like a good playtest by Scapemage and 340 seemed to be about right. But other than that, no vote, unless I missed it somewhere.

So I think we are at 8 YEAs and just short Necro's vote.

Edit: Actually this passes do to elapsed time as I proposed it on Monday the 30th of August at like 5:26am CST and now it's Wednesday the 1st of September at 8:00am CST.

Super Skrull passes to Whole Set Testing

[IAmBatman]

Heh, oops! Thanks for the updates! :-) I'll make sure to update the title and the Fan Four thread.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Hey, I thought we were adding his Skrull name here as his alter-ego, Kl'rt, as the Avengers, X-Men, and Illuminati versions are also just called Super-Skrull? This would then work like Green Lanterns, well except their powers would be different from each other. ;)

[IAmBatman]

First I've heard of it, but makes sense! I'll update.

[A3n]

Mini card (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_SuperSkrull_mini.jpg).
Comic card (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_SuperSkrull_comic.jpg).

Cheers

[SirGalahad]

Suggested wording changes:

ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If an adjacent small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty same-level or lower space within 3 spaces of Super Skrull. A figure moved by Rock Wall Bounce Back 3 never takes any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.

PARTIAL INVISIBILITY
Super Skrull can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. If Super Skrull is not engaged to with an opponent's figure, he cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks, or any special powers that require clear sight.

LAVA RESISTANT
Super Skrull never rolls for molten lava damage or lava field damage and does not have to stop in molten lava spaces.

[IAmBatman]

Looks good! :thumbsup: (Both the cards and Sir G's edits).

[Griffin]

I think I am in love with A3nus! These cards you are doing are absolutely FAN-tastic. :up:

[A3n]

SirG's edits have been updated to the cards.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Sweet. Thanks. :-)
Oh, and that Lava Resistance change will need to be made to Human Torch as well, I believe ...

[SirGalahad]

I haven't gotten that far yet.

[IAmBatman]

Thought I could save you the trip. :-P

[SirGalahad]

In this economy, any trip not taken is usually worth it.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Is this ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If an adjacent small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty same or lower-level space within 3 spaces of Super Skrull. A figure moved by Rock Wall Bounce Back 3 never takes any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.better or worse than this?ROCK WALL BOUNCE BACK 3
If an adjacent small or medium adjacent figure attacks Super Skrull with a normal attack, and Super Skrull rolls at least 3 shields, Super Skrull takes no damage, the attacking figure receives one wound, and you may Bounce Back the figure by placing it on any empty same-level or lower space within 3 spaces of Super Skrull. A figure moved by Rock Wall Bounce Back 3 never takes any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.

[SirGalahad]

There is precedence

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/2/shurrak_card_original.jpg
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31403&highlight=knockback

[IAmBatman]

I love how, after I put that text into a couple of powers where it came in handy, I got about four or five responses where people were like "this wording sounds really unofficial." :-P

[Hahma]

Yeah, I remember you constantly having to tell people about that. "It is official wording", maybe new and less familiar, but official nonetheless. :D

[Griffin]

On the Lava Resistance power, I think we need to stay consistent with our choice of wording with Steel Skin on Colossus' card.

[IAmBatman]

Fair enough. If we already have clear C3G precedent, we should stick with that.

[Griffin]

Fair enough. If we already have clear C3G precedent, we should stick with that.
Exactly. This is our game, and we should aim to be consistent with what we are doing, instead of trying to stay consistent with 3 different inconsistent official games all at once.

[IAmBatman]

Fair enough. If we already have clear C3G precedent, we should stick with that.
Exactly. This is our game, and we should aim to be consistent with what we are doing, instead of trying to stay consistent with 3 different inconsistent official games all at once.

Oh, I don't think Sir G's argument for a change was based on consistency with anything but good use of the English language. :-P

[Griffin]

Fair enough. If we already have clear C3G precedent, we should stick with that.
Exactly. This is our game, and we should aim to be consistent with what we are doing, instead of trying to stay consistent with 3 different inconsistent official games all at once.

Oh, I don't think Sir G's argument for a change was based on consistency with anything but good use of the English language. :-P
Oh believe me, I know. My comment was more directed at a certain member just now coming out of temporary retirement. ;) I want to make sure I am sharing my overall design aesthetic with the group too.

[GreyOwl]

You talkin' to me? :) I wasn't even involved in this conversation.

[Griffin]

You talkin' to me? :) I wasn't even involved in this conversation.
:poke: Now you are. :neener:

I just thought it was a good opportunity to share my feelings about this custom project and how it compares to the official gameS.

[Hahma]

I propose Super Skrull be finalized.

[Griffin]

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/cbales_83/lil_jon_yeah11.jpg

[A3n]

Yea

[whitestuff]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Yea

[NecroBlade]

Yea.

[Griffin]

With Spidey and GO on abstain, Sir G is all we need here.

[SirGalahad]

Don't need the last comma in PARTIAL INVISIBILITY

yea with that

[IAmBatman]

OK, I'll wait for A3n to have a chance to make that change before calling this vote, then. :-)

[Griffin]

We still need that comma removed per Sir G's request, and we still need PDFs here. Has GO received them yet?

[A3n]

UPdated. PDFs on the way to GO.

[GreyOwl]

PDFs:

[SirGalahad]

Compare what we have for Rock Wall Bounce Back:

A non-flying figure moved lower by Rock Wall Bounce Back can receive any falling damage that may apply.

against what we have for Spider-Girl:

Non-flying figures will receive any falling damage that may apply.

Singular or plural?
"can" or "will"?
include the "moved lower by power name" or not?

[IAmBatman]

Good questions. I believe Rock Wall Bounce Back is taken straight from the Knockback 14 official power, but I'm not against moving away from that if you guys find it appropriate.

[SirGalahad]

Then the appropriate changes need to be made to Spider-Girl before she gets released.

[Griffin]

PDFs are broken.

[A3n]

Cheers

[Griffin]

Updated.

[A3n]

Last edited by Griffin : Today at 03:08 PM. Reason: deleted PDFs

Thank you, that's all I give coz repping doesn't work. :?

[IAmBatman]

Just realized, this was never made official ... this passes for release!

[Griffin]

Last edited by Griffin : Today at 03:08 PM. Reason: deleted PDFs Thank you, that's all I give coz repping doesn't work. :?
LOL, a simple thank you still works. :D

[SirGalahad]

Super Skrull standardized!

[Griffin]

Super Sweet. :up:

[IAmBatman]

done.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to post this, but I noticed a typo. Both of the PDF's have a 'l' that's been Bolded in the text for 'Partial Invisibility'.

[Griffin]

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to post this, but I noticed a typo. Both of the PDF's have a 'l' that's been Bolded in the text for 'Partial Invisibility'.
Actually that is some type of glitch that occurs when you view them. If you print it out, those "I"s will NOT be in bold. :)

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to post this, but I noticed a typo. Both of the PDF's have a 'l' that's been Bolded in the text for 'Partial Invisibility'.
Actually that is some type of glitch that occurs when you view them. If you print it out, those "I"s will NOT be in bold. :)

I just printed it out, the 'L' in question is still bold.

For reference, this is the one I'm talking about

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn293/SoundwarpSG-1/ty.jpg

[Griffin]

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to post this, but I noticed a typo. Both of the PDF's have a 'l' that's been Bolded in the text for 'Partial Invisibility'.
Actually that is some type of glitch that occurs when you view them. If you print it out, those "I"s will NOT be in bold. :)

I just printed it out, the 'L' in question is still bold.

For reference, this is the one I'm talking about

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn293/SoundwarpSG-1/ty.jpg
Yep, your absolutely right. We had this happen a few times on other cards, but when you print them out there was no bold "l". I just printed it off to be sure, as I have an older version of the card, and your right. I recommend alerting A3n, as that is his territory. Thanks. :)