The Book of Moloid

[Griffin]

The Book of Moloid

C3G MARVEL FANTASTIC FOUR MASTER SET
FANTASTIC FORCES UNITE!

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_Moloid_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_Moloid_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_Moloid_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_Moloid_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Critical Mass set.
Its model number and name are #001-003 / Moloid.
_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - They have spent their entire existence underground living in a world that most of us did not even know exists. This underworld is simply known as Subterranea and its people are called Moloids. They are an ancient race that has existed underground for centuries with tunnels that span the entire world. Though they keep to themselves in relative peace, they do not take kindly to any surface dweller who would dare to enter their domain.
_________________________________________________________________



-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received



Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
Up to 4 adjacent Moloids may be moved by Mole Man's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30555) Tunnel Surprise special power.Synergy Benefits Offered



Classic:
N/AMarvel:
Moloids may select one Unique Ruler Hero to activate using their Loyal to One Ruler special power. Current Unique Ruler Heroes include: Doctor Doom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9713)C3G:
Moloids may select one Unique Ruler Hero to activate using their Loyal to One Ruler special power. Current Unique Ruler Heroes include: Doctor Doom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30561), Mole Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30555), Mongul (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37977).
As a Subterranean figure, Moloid may reduce the defense dice of an adjacent opponent attacked by Mole Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30555).______________________________________________ ___________________



-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial Playtest: Hahma (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1180718&postcount=58)
Second Playtest: Lord Pyre (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1195474&postcount=132)
Third playtest: quozl (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1195773&postcount=138)

[Griffin]

They should Bond with whatever the heck Mole Man's class is
Common Squad of 3
Move of 6, and you can move up to 6 in a turn, but if you do, they would then have a move of 4 instead, call it Swarm
A new scatter where if one is killed, you can move a couple immediately

[IAmBatman]

I think they should have Hide in Darkness and a bonding power with Moleman and call it a day. :-)

[Hahma]

Some bonding with Mole Man

Relatively cheap and do better in underground DnD maps, Hide In Darkness.

Regardless of squad size 3 or 4, there needs to be a lot of them for the swarming affect that will eat up opponent's attacks trying to keep up.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think he should be a scientist. That is how he became Moleman.


EDIT: Oops! Wrong thread. :oops:

[NecroBlade]

Wait, when did this whole LD change thing come about?

I'm good with Hide in Darkness, but maybe add a little more to it so Moloid Power::Hide in Darkness as Amphibious::Slither?

Also, a Marro Drone-like swarm power would be good. Roll 1-A, move/attack with 3. Roll (A+1)-B, 6. (B+1)-20, 9.

[IAmBatman]

Check the main Fantastic Four thread for details ...

[IAmBatman]

So now that Mole Man is looking pretty solid, these guys can be made to fit him.
Since "pushing the limitations of the game" is kind of our thing, any thought on giving these guys low stats but making them something crazy like a squad of 5 or 6?

[Hahma]

Edit: deleted group Moloid pix

[NecroBlade]

I could go with 5, I think.

[IAmBatman]

I think it's a fun experiment. Heck, hero bonding squads of four are usually more powerful than squads of 5 would be anyway.

[GreyOwl]

5 sounds cool.

[Hahma]

I could go with 5, I think.


I think it's a fun experiment. Heck, hero bonding squads of four are usually more powerful than squads of 5 would be anyway.

5 sounds cool.


Can the Art department do some magic to add a 5th Moloid to the background of the pix I took with 4 or should I try more pix with 5? The thing is, that I think that any additional one/s I would add behind it might be a little blurred because it's kind of hard to focus on so many and get them all just right. I don't mind if the art guys can't add another one, but I'm just saying that it might not be much better.

[GreyOwl]

For squads, the pictures have to be done so each figure is separate and not overlapping. If you do it that way, from several angles for each unique sculpt, then we can Photoshop in additional figures.

[Hahma]

For squads, the pictures have to be done so each figure is separate and not overlapping. If you do it that way, from several angles for each unique sculpt, then we can Photoshop in additional figures.

Something like this?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Punisher%20background%20pix/GreenLanternKyleandotherC3Gminis018.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Punisher%20background%20pix/GreenLanternKyleandotherC3Gminis018.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Punisher%20background%20pix/GreenLanternKyleandotherC3Gminis015.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Punisher%20background%20pix/GreenLanternKyleandotherC3Gminis016.jpg

[GreyOwl]

Yep, that's the idea. A3n will have to judge if those particular images are usable or not, though.

[Hahma]

Yep, that's the idea. A3n will have to judge if those particular images are usable or not, though.


okay, then I'll redo those, as they aren't the best and I'll do HYDRA Agents and Skrull Warriors individually as well. It might be a few days though.

[IAmBatman]

Take your time. You've been on fire. :-)

[Hahma]

The Book of Moloids

C3G MARVEL RELEASE SET

(INSERT COMIC PICTURE)



The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the ????? set. Its model number and name is ???/?????.


(INSERT MINIATURE PICTURE)

Background:
(INSERT BACKGROUND PICTURE FOR THE MINIATURE)



Moloids
Common Hero
Subterranean
Servile
Small 4

Life 1
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 1
Defense 1
Cost 10

LOYAL TO ONE RULER
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Ruler Hero to be the One Ruler for all Moloids you control. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with a Moloid, you may first take a turn with its chosen One Ruler. Any Moloid within 2 clear sight spaces of their chosen One Ruler may add 1 to their attack.


SWARMING MOVEMENT
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before moving Moloids, roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 1-10, you may move and attack with up to 5 Moloids you control. On a roll of 11-18, you may move and attack with up to 7 Moloids you control. On a roll of 19-20, you may move and attack with up to 10 Moloids you control.

CAVE DWELLERS
While occupying a rock, dungeon or shadow space, a Moloid adds 1 to its defense.





_________________________________________________________________


Character Bio - (Insert character Bio)





-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A


_________________________________________________________________-Combinations and Synergies-


Synergy Benefits Received



Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
N/ASynergy Benefits Offered



Marvel:
N/AClassic:
N/AC3G:
N/A_________________________________________________________________




-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
(Insert initial playtest here)
(Insert second playtest here)
(Insert third playtest here)

[Griffin]

Front page updated. Really nice Hahma. :up: Because of the way their Horde power works, we could make these guys cheap little common Heroes. :up: Also, you need a new name for that power since the Zombies Horde Movement is so different from this one.

[NecroBlade]

We'll have to scratch Moloid Movement Bonding from Mole Man, then, it gets a bit redundant with Loyal to the Ruler. There are no cave spaces, just dungeon spaces.

Those are my initial thoughts.

Also, I think we need a One Ring Glyph now. :p

[Hahma]

Front page updated. Really nice Hahma. :up: Because of the way their Horde power works, we could make these guys cheap little common Heroes. :up: Also, you need a new name for that power since the Zombies Horde Movement is so different from this one.


I changed it to Swarming Movement, for now anyway. It's certainly open to suggestions.

Common Heroes? Wouldn't we need like 15 cards and stickers for these guys then when playing them in large #'s?

We'll have to scratch Moloid Movement Bonding from Mole Man, then, it gets a bit redundant with Loyal to the Ruler. There are no cave spaces, just dungeon spaces.

Those are my initial thoughts.

Also, I think we need a One Ring Glyph now. :p


Yeah, I forgot about the Moloid Movement Bonding on Mole Man's card. That just leaves an opening for something else :)

No cave spaces? I must be tired. Anyway, I changed it to dungeon spaces. Thanks.

Nice one about the One Ring Glyph :D The Moloids do look kind of like Golem.

[Griffin]

No stickers or multiple cards needed with Common Heroes. Just one card and as many as you wish to draft. :D This could be a great way to get some more filler units, and it wouldn't change the play of them at all with that Swarm power.

[Hahma]

Well then, that's cool. I'm not a big Common Hero player, but might have to start. I guess the tough part is to price these little guys as a single figure unit. Should we test them as we would squads and then divide the final cost by the number of squad figures to get the individual cost? These guys are meant to be used in bulk as they are weak figures that require a lot of them to be effective, so I guess testing as a squad then dividing would work. They're not like some other Common Heroes where 3 in an army is sufficient, so this is a little different.

I guess the neat thing about them being Common Heroes is that in a Mole Man (or other Ruler) Army, you wouldn't have to worry about being short 10 points.

[IAmBatman]

I'm good with them as a squad of 5 or with them as common heroes. I'm thinking try pricing them at 10 points each and then taking at least 5 of them at a time and seeing how it goes. (Though 10, obviously, would be ideal).
Oh, and I agree, awesome write-up! :-)

[IAmBatman]

Oh, and there might need to be an Order Marker stipulation in the turn bonding portion of Loyal to One Ruler if we go common hero. Otherwise, people might think that you get to move Moleman (or whatever ruler) before each Moloid takes a turn (which should be at least 5 times every turn).

[Griffin]

CAVE DWELLERS
While occupying a rock, dungeon, or shadow space, a Moloid adds 1 to its defense. I am thinking that this is just not enough to make their attack 1/defense 1 powerful enough to ever be a threat to the Fan Four. I think their attack and defense should go up to 2/2 and Cave Dwellers should boost their attack and defense by 1.

[NecroBlade]

I like them as 1/1 with just a possible further +1/+1. Like our Civilians. Besides, what happened to "no more squadscape"?

[IAmBatman]

I think if Cave Dwellers upped their attack as well as Loyal to One Ruler, then they could, in dungeon, on height, theoretically have attacks of 4. It's very conditional, but that'd be an environment where they could hurt the Fan Four.

[Griffin]

I like them as 1/1 with just a possible further +1/+1. Like our Civilians. Besides, what happened to "no more squadscape"?

They are Common Heroes now. ;) But I agree with you, we can keep them at 1/1 as long as we give them plenty of boosting opportunities.

[NecroBlade]

Common heroes is fine with me (cool dynamic with one figure per card but moving 5+ each OM). But I don't think their suggested cost should be 60 then. :p

[IAmBatman]

LOYAL TO ONE RULER
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Ruler Hero to be the One Ruler for the Moloids. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with a Moloid, you may first take a turn with its chosen One Ruler. Any Moloid within 2 clear sight spaces of their chosen One Ruler may add 1 to their attack.

I think this change is needed to make it work as a Common Hero.

Edit: Also, the cost would have to be about 10 points, yeah. :-P

[Griffin]

I am really digging the whole Mole faction. :D

[IAmBatman]

Now we just need to add Cindy Crawford's Mole ...

[Hahma]

LOYAL TO ONE RULER
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Ruler Hero to be the One Ruler for the Moloids. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with a Moloid, you may first take a turn with its chosen One Ruler. Any Moloid within 2 clear sight spaces of their chosen One Ruler may add 1 to their attack.

I think this change is needed to make it work as a Common Hero.

Edit: Also, the cost would have to be about 10 points, yeah. :-P

Thanks for the change Bats. :D

I updated my post on page 19 with your wording for LTOR and changing Horde Movement to Swarming Movement, as well as changing cost to 10 points and from common squad to common hero.

[Griffin]

LOYAL TO ONE RULER
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Ruler Hero to be the One Ruler for the Moloids. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with a Moloid, you may first take a turn with its chosen One Ruler. Any Moloid within 2 clear sight spaces of their chosen One Ruler may add 1 to their attack.

I think this change is needed to make it work as a Common Hero.

Edit: Also, the cost would have to be about 10 points, yeah. :-P

Thanks for the change Bats. :D
RULER
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Ruler Hero to be the One Ruler for all Moloids you control. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with a Moloid, you may first take a turn with its chosen One Ruler. Any Moloid within 2 clear sight spaces of their chosen One Ruler may add 1 to their attack.

I think that helps a bit more.

[Hahma]

Yeah that helps more, thanks. :D I updated post 19 with it.

[Griffin]

Updated. :up: I hate that I started these threads now. :? But I really wanted to get us rolling.

[Hahma]

Updated. :up: I hate that I started these threads now. :? But I really wanted to get us rolling.

Thanks and yeah, I've been wanting to update things directly to the first page but can't. Oh well, hopefully we can keep the updating to a minimum for you :D

[Hahma]

Here's some individual Moloid pix for the Art Department to use:


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix159.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix158.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix158.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix157.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix156.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix155.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix153.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Hydra%20minis%20and%20others/Minipix152.jpg

[Hahma]

So is everyone happy with what we have on the first page for these guys. I think we can move on to do initial playtesting any time with them and should do these guys before Mole Man since he has so many Moloid/Subterranean synergy going on. They have Ruler bonding, but we can adjust for that later when they have a rough price and otherwise solid and we can test MM with them and get a price for him and get some army tests with them together to see what their bonding does for them.

Being that these guys are Common Heroes, so cheap and meant to be drafted in bunches, we'll have to do some creative testing.

Maybe some HH with 3 Moloids for 30 point tests. Then some with 8 Moloids with 80 point tests. 12 Moloids for 120 point tests. Similar means can be used for squad tests, maybe 4 of them for 40 point tests etc.

[Griffin]

One small thing, change the name of this power, as it is no longer just a movement power.

SWARMING MOVEMENT
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before moving Moloids, roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 1-10, you may move and attack with up to 5 Moloids you control. On a roll of 11-18, you may move and attack with up to 7 Moloids you control. On a roll of 19-20, you may move and attack with up to 10 Moloids you control.

How about SWARMING ASSAULT :reapershrug:

[IAmBatman]

SUBTERRANEAN SWARM?

Hahma, if you want, you can take the lead on playtesting Mole Man and the Moloids since it sounds like you have a pretty good concept as how to proceed. :-)
I'll finish Superskrull and then go after Gorilla Grodd or Hawkman.

[Griffin]

SUBTERRANEAN SWARM?

Hahma, if you want, you can take the lead on playtesting Mole Man and the Moloids since it sounds like you have a pretty good concept as how to proceed. :-)
I'll finish Superskrull and then go after Gorilla Grodd or Hawkman.
Sounds good. I think we both love campy names that play on one or two letters.

[IAmBatman]

I'll let you update it. :-) I'm out the door in a minute here!

[Griffin]

Done. :up:

[NecroBlade]

Name and species should be "Moloid" (singular)...also, subterranean seems strange for a class, IMO.

[Hahma]

SUBTERRANEAN SWARM?

Hahma, if you want, you can take the lead on playtesting Mole Man and the Moloids since it sounds like you have a pretty good concept as how to proceed. :-)
I'll finish Superskrull and then go after Gorilla Grodd or Hawkman.

Yeah, I'll tackle these guys after I get done with Doom. Like the change to the title of the power. :)

Name and species should be "Moloid" (singular)...also, subterranean seems strange for a class, IMO.



You are right Necro, since they are not a squad of Moloids any longer but now a Moloid Common Hero, the name of the unit should be Moloid (singular).

Would this change below also help? From "before moving Moloids" to "before moving a Moloid" since now they are a Common Hero.


SUBTERRANEAN SWARM
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before moving a Moloid, roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 1-10, you may move and attack with up to 5 Moloids you control. On a roll of 11-18, you may move and attack with up to 7 Moloids you control. On a roll of 19-20, you may move and attack with up to 10 Moloids you control.


I guess Subterranean could be considered more of a race than a class, but it can't take the place of Moloid as a race. Subterranean as in inhabitant of Subterranea is meant to be a generic term used to help in allowing other Subterraneans (such as the different monsters inhabiting Subterranea) to have synergy with Mole Man for his Tunnel Surprise power. I guess we could change their class from Subterranean to Subject or Servant or something else and then chance the wording in Tunnel Surprise to correspond with that and then any Subterranean "monsters" we might ever create could be the same class as the Moloids.

[IAmBatman]

I think it's a class the same way "Civilians" could be a class. They're someone who dwells in the Subterranea and that's kind of what they're all about. Dwelling there is more or less their day job.
Hahma, I think "this Moloid" is probably more correct there than "a Moloid." I'll make that change. :-)

[NecroBlade]

For Common Heroes "a" is appropriate (see: Dumutef Guard). Remember, you can take a turn with ANY of the common figures after revealing on OM since you only have one card for all of them.

Also, good points on Subterranean.

[IAmBatman]

"a" it is!

[Griffin]

For Common Heroes "a" is appropriate (see: Dumutef Guard). Remember, you can take a turn with ANY of the common figures after revealing on OM since you only have one card for all of them.

Also, good points on Subterranean.

:word:

[Hahma]

I will be getting started testing these guys pretty soon. I tore down Hostage Holdout map this morning before work and still have to tear down Platforms 5 and 6 map in order to build the Martian War Zone: The Heat map for the cave and shadow pieces, as well as the less height that will get the most of the Moloids Cavedwellers power.

Fortunately, the original Doom is a Ruler and can be used in their Loyal to One Ruler Power for army tests.

[IAmBatman]

It's a pretty cool map! I had fun running a Scientist/Adventurer team against a slew of heavy hitters last night on that one. :-)

[Hahma]

I finally got the two maps torn down that I need to and just got Martian War Zone: The Heat built (looks pretty cool Griff :D). So I'll try to get started testing the Moloids later tonight after everyone's in bed, I'll get started anyway. :) Can continue in the morning before work and then as time allows. I have a bunch of interesting tests set up for these puppies and just re-glued the 4 I took off the base for pictures back onto their bases. So I'll have 16 of these little guys ready for action. :D

[Griffin]

I finally got the two maps torn down that I need to and just got Martian War Zone: The Heat built (looks pretty cool Griff :D). So I'll try to get started testing the Moloids later tonight after everyone's in bed, I'll get started anyway. :) Can continue in the morning before work and then as time allows. I have a bunch of interesting tests set up for these puppies and just re-glued the 4 I took off the base for pictures back onto their bases. So I'll have 16 of these little guys ready for action. :D
Have fun brotha. Watch your step though, things can get uncomfortably hot. :twisted:

[IAmBatman]

Look forward to seeing what you come up with! I need to get off my duff and back on the playtesting bandwagon myself ... but things have been busy, busy!

[Hahma]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Moloid Common Hero @10 points

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak. PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any. PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS, though so far from HH tests, they'd need to at least begin the game making use of their bonding power.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS They'll certainly do better on maps with Dungeon, Rock and Shadow tiles, with a Ruler Unique Hero in their army and the more Moloids, the better use of Swarm Movement.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? Pass after change to 2 attack.



TEST 1
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 1 Moloid vs. Isamu (10 points)

Isamu wins on T2R2. The Moloid took advantage of Cave Dweller in order to be able to add 1 to defense and rolled 2 shields with 2 dice to block Isamu's 1st attack of 2 skulls. Isamu disappeared a couple times to avoid rolling defense and then finally killed the Moloid.

TEST 2
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 3 Moloids vs. Eldgrim (30 points)

All 3 Moloids survive to win on T5R3. Eldgrim never rolled 2 skulls and with the help of Cave Dwellers power the 2 defense dice helped keep the Moloids alive vs. a low melee attacker like Eldgrim. He whiffed enough times to eventually fall to the feeble attacks.

TEST 3
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 3 Moloids vs. Guilty McCreech (30 points)

Guilty wins T1R2 with 0 wounds. Guilty got height and was able to kill 1 Moloid in R1 and finish off the other 2 on right off the bat in R2. His range, double attack and having height helped him immensely, even the +2 the Moloids got to add to their defense wasn't enough to protect them from Guilty. They didn't even get close enough to attack him thanks to the bumpy map.

TEST 4
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 5 Moloids vs. Arkmer (50 points)

Arkmer wins with 0 wounds on T3R2. In R1, a Moloid took advantage of Cave Dwellers while on a shadow space to defend vs. a 2 skull attack. But it went down hill fast after that as Arker killed one Moloid on his next turn, and 3 Moloids died with Engagement Strike 13 as d20 rolls of 16, 18 and 20 were not favoring the Moloids. The last Moloid made it through ES to be able to attack, but missed with it's die attack and fell on Arkmer's next turn.

TEST 5
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 5 Moloids vs. Brave Arrow (50 points)

Brave Arrow wins with 3 wounds on T3R2. R1 saw BA take 3 wounds from Moloids, but he killed 1 and the lava field killed 2 more. He eventually finished off the other 2. He only took wounds while whiffing defense rolls vs. their lowly 1 die attack as they couldn't get any height advantage.

TEST 6
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 7 Moloids (70) vs. Johnny Shotgun Sullivan (65 points)

Johnny wins with 1 wound on T6R3. He took out 2 Moloids with his shotgun early and then he got engaged by 2 Moloids while he was on Lava Field, so instead of leaving 2 enagements on his 3rd turn of R1, he blasted the 2 Moloids with his Shotgun and then took his 1 and only wound from the Lava Field. In R2 a Moloid took advantage of Cave Dwellers and blocked a 2 skull attack with 2 defense dice roll of 2 shields. He eventually killed the remaining Moloids. His range and shotgun attack were too much for the Moloids, even when with Cave Dwellers power.

TEST 7
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 8 Moloids vs. Kumiko (80 points)

Kumiko wins on T2R3 with 2 wounds. She was caught on a space that allowed her to get surrounded, but with only 2 spaces available higher than hers and all others were lower than hers, with 2 of them being shadow spaces. So the worst she ever faced in one turn was 2 attacks of 2 and 3 attacks of 1 (with her having height bonus for defense). Her defense and multiple attacks were devastating against the Moloids. Like most others that take wounds from Moloids, she'd take 1 at a time by whiffing. I did get to move all 8 Moloids early in R1 because of their Subterranean Swarm power.

Test 8
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 7 Moloids vs. 2 Fire Elementals

Both Fire Elementals survived to win on T1R3. Fire Elementals were able to stay on Lava Field forever and they dids some damage with Searing Intensity, killing 3 Moloids with that. Other than that, the Moloids had great difficulty putting wounds on with only 1 attack die and whiffed attacks a lot.

Do to inept attacks thus far, I'm doing all further testing with the Moloids having an attack of 2.

Test 9
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 7 Moloids vs. 2 Fire Elementals

1 Moloid survives to win on T3R3. Searing Intensity continued to be trouble for the Moloids but the last Moloid managed to kill the last Fire Elemental with a 1/0 attack, so there was a little luck, but this felt better with the upped attack.

Test 10
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 5 Moloids vs. 2 Drow Chain Fighters (50 points)

4 Moloids survive to win on T3R2. Chainfighters need to change strategy.

Test 11
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 5 Moloids vs. 2 Drow Chain Fighters (50 points)

1 Drow Chainfighter survives to win on T6R2. Nothing special, just managed to out attack and defend vs. Moloids.

Test 12
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 11 Moloids vs. Migol

8 Moloids survive to win on T4R2. 2 Moloids were able to get height for attacks of 3 and between them and others, Migol took wounds 1 at a time until he took 2 wounds from a 2/0 attack. He's not well suited vs. squads as he only has a single attack and squads would only likely give him 1 wound at a time anyway, so limiting it to 1 isn't such a big deal in this case.

Test 13
Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 12 Moloids vs. Pyro

Pyro lives with 2 wounds on T3R3. Moloids were able to activate 7 figures 3 times and 5 figures 3 times and last figure 1 time. Pyro killed 7 of 12 with Engulf and 5 with Living Flame.






_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass? Pass

Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units: 14 Moloids vs. Deepwyrm Drow x 2 (140 points)

5 Moloids survive to win on T1R4. Moloids were able to activate 7 figure 5 times and 5 figures or less 5 times as well. Poison didn't help vs. Moloids and Drow were having problems with Hide In Shadows keeping them alive. Both units were able to take advantage of terrain based defensive powers.


Map: Martian War: The Heat
Units:16 Moloids vs. Hydra Agents x 2 (160 points)

4 Hydra Agents survive to win on T5R3. Moloids had 7 activated figures 2 times and 5 or less figures activated 5 times. There were 4 dead Hydra Agents by the end of round 2, but they took advantage of the Lava rift in the middle of the map to keep Moloids from closing in and ganging up on individual Agents. The ranged squad on uneven terrain and one with a separating terrain feature is going to have advantage over melee only Moloids.


_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass?Pass
Played on Martian War: The Heat map

Moloids x 16 (160) Doctor Doom (245) and Angel (90) for 495 points.

vs.

Punisher (180) Daredevil (180) and Nightcrawler (140) for 500 points.

R1- Angel carries Doom forward. Daredevil moves out. Doom flies forward and attacks DD but Radar Sense saves DD and he moves out of Mind Exchange range. 7 Moloids activate and move out. Nightcrawler Bamfs 8 spaces to shadow space on opposite side of lava as Doom. Doom attacks Punisher but misses. 7 Moloids move. Punisher moves and attacks with Rocket vs. Doom with height but misses.

R2- Punisher moves to same level as Doom and puts 2 wounds on him with his Rocket Launcher. Doom attacks and misses Punisher but does get to Mind Exchange him and sends Punisher into molten lava to kill him. 5 Moloids move. Punisher dead no turn. Doom goes after Daredevil now and attacks with height. He rolls 5 skulls and DD misses Radar Sense and only rolls 1 shield to die. 7 Moloids move and 3 can engage Nightcrawler and 1 of them manages to put 2 wounds on him with a 2/0 attack after NC misses Teleport Evade roll. Nightcrawler kills 2 out of 3 Moloids he attacks. Doom kills Nightcrawler with a 3/1 attack after NC misses Teleport Evade again.

Doom with 2 wounds, Angel with 0 wounds and 14 Moloids survive to win on T6R2.




What can I say, this was a huge d20 luck game as Doom had it for his one and only Mind Exchange roll that sent a 0 wound Punisher to his death in Lava, and DD failed his Radar Sense and then only got 1 shield vs. a 5 skull attack to die, then NC failed 2 Teleport Evade rolls to take 2 wounds from a Moloid with a 2/0 attack and then final 2 wounds from Doom with a 3/1 attack. Doom was 2 wounds away from death, so had he died, I'm liking the Vigilante/Nightcrawler team to win. The Lava map also contributed to the results with an easy death for Punisher. _____________________________________________________________





- Army Test/ Does it pass? Pass
Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map
16 Moloids (160) Doctor Doom (245) Colossus (260) and Mystique (165) for 830 points.

vs.

Two-Face (130) Thugs x 3 (210) Black Mask (100) Flash (250) and Nightcrawler (140) for 830 points.

R1- Two-Face and Thugs move out. Doom and 7 Moloids move out, with 3 of the 7 Moloids heading toward TF and Thugs and Doom and 4 Moloids heading to other side map. Nightcrawler Bamfs 8 spaces to get near TF. Colossus moves to get near Moloids heading toward TF. Two-Face and Thugs move but can't attack. Mystique moves and kills a Thug.

R2- Black Mask and 2Thugs move toward side of map where Doom and his Moloid crew are and 2 Thugs move to height near Two-Face and kill 1 Moloid. The 2 Thugs near but not adjacent to Black Mask attack but miss Doom. Doom moves to height and puts 1 wound on Black Mask but misses Mind Exchange. 7 Moloids move and 1 kills a Thug with a 2/1 attack. Flash speeds across map to attack normally vs. Colossus and misses, then moves 4 spaces away. Doom moves and attacks with height vs. flash and puts 1 wound on him with a 3/2 attack, then misses Mind Exchange. 7 Moloids activate and kill 3 Thugs, miss Two-Face and Flash Speed Dodges an attack. Black Mask moves to height and kills a Moloid. Thugs move and 3 attack and kill 3 Moloids and 1 attacks with height vs. Doom and puts 2 wounds on him with a 2/0 attack. Colossus moves and uses Fastball Special to throw a Moloid at Flash to bypass Speed Dodge, but misses d20 roll.

R3- Mystique moves adjacent to a Thug and attacks Flash, but he Dodges. Flash moves adjacent to Doom and misses all of his FF attacks. Doom misses Flash and misses Mind Exchange vs. Flash also. 7 Moloids activate with 2 of them able to attack Two-Face and they put 2 wounds on him. Nightcrawler Bamfs to kill a Moloid, then Bamfs to kill Doom with a 3/1 attack and can't anymore. Colossus moves and throws another Moloid at Flash and misses again. Two-Face kills a Moloid and then misses next Flip. Thugs miss 2 Moloids, then miss Colossus, but put 1 wound on Mystique.

R4- TF fails Flip. 1 Thug gets Criminal Motivation from BM and kills a Moloid. Another not adjacent to BM misses a Moloid and 2 other Thugs miss Colossus and Mystique. Colossus is tired of throwing Moloids so he moves and kills Two-Face. Nightcrawler Bamfs 3 times and puts 2 wounds on Colossus. Colossus attacks Nightcrawler and puts 3 wounds on him after NC misses TE. Flash leaves engagement from Moloid that was thrown at him, crosses water and attacks Mystique. He doesn't take a wound from Engagement Strike and puts 3 wounds on her. Colossus kills Nightcrawler after he misses Teleport Evade again (not having much luck with that in both army tests).

R5- Flash kills Mystique with normal attack and moves away. Mystique dead no turn. Flash moves to height and puts 1 wound on Colossus with FF attacks. With Doom dead, the Rulerless Moloids get 5 to activate and they kill 1 Thug. Black Mask attacks with height and kills a Moloid. 2 Thugs get Criminally Motivated to kill 2 Moloids and 2 other Thugs attack and miss Colossus. Colossus attacks Flash but he Dodges.

R6- Colossus puts 1 wound on Flash. Flash misses 4 times vs. Colossus. Colossus misses a Dodging Flash. Flash still can't hurt Colossus with 4 attacks. Colossus still can't land a punch on the Dodging Flash. Black Mask and his crew move and 2 Thugs attack and miss Colossus.

R7- Flash puts 2 wounds (5) on Colossus with a 2/0 attack and then finishes him off with a 3/1 attack. Colossus dead no turn. Flash moves and kills 2 Moloids. Colossus dead no turn. Black Mask and Thugs move and attack and kill Moloids. Colosuss dead no turn.

R8- Flash moves and kills last Moloid.

Flash with 2 wounds, Black Mask with 1 wound and 6 Thugs survive to win on T1R8.

Doom didn't do much as he only put 1 wound on Black Mask and 1 wound on Flash with no Mind Exchanging. Moloids did decent when they got to attack Thugs and were used by Colossus for FBS but he missed both times. But they'd be cheap things for him to throw. The combo of Flash and Nightcrawler were great in taking out Colossus/Doom and Moloids. TF didn't do much. Black Mask killed some Moloids and Thugs did their job. Mistique didn't have too much luck. Moloids didn't get to take advantage of Cave Dwellers defensive boost as there wasn't any Dungeon/shadow spaces and very little rock spaces, or attack bonus when near Ruler Doom as he was flying all over and kept leaving them in the dust.

Overall, I think the Moloids are fine at 10 points with the change to attack of 2. They're not an overly exciting unit, but are nice when then swarm and can manage to get a few wounds on just by the amounts of attacks they can get or kill low end units like themselves and they can tie up opponents as well. With Colossus, they are cheap units to throw for FBS. Their low defense allows them to get killed so they aren't going to swarm forever and feel overpowered. Ranged units and multi-attacks are good counters for them, so they'd need some help with other units in their army to distract the counters to Moloids so they can swarm in and do their thing. I look forward to seeing how they work with Mole Man and I think they will be neat in that they will play differently with Doom and with Mole Man so that there will be fun options.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... Moleman is going to make these guys better, right? As is, I think you could make an argument for dropping their cost!

[Hahma]

Hmm ... Moleman is going to make these guys better, right? As is, I think you could make an argument for dropping their cost!

Well it's yet to be seen. Mole Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1096817&postcount=1) will add to the Moloids if they are close to him, though with Tunnel Surprise he can help them with movement once per game. Mole Man gets a boost to his attack when Moloids are adjacent to opponent's figures. Both units are definitely going to be better on Dungeon and Shadow spaces than they would with other terrain, though Moloids at least get some help with rock spaces.

Now Doom v1. being a Ruler will benefit from the One Ruler bonding power of the Moloids. So after revealin OM on Moloid card, Doom can take a turn before Moloid/s. Conceivably, it could go Doom, Mind Exchanged figure then Moloids. So that can be a nice combo. Add a couple Doombots and for around 600 points you can have Doom v1. 2 Doombots and 16 Moloids.

[IAmBatman]

OK. I guess my question then, with Mole Man more getting a boost from them than providing one to them for the most part, is do you think these guys are worth drafting right now?

[Hahma]

Well I'd never draft them without a Ruler. And I'd say even then you'd want at least 10 of them. I guess they can be useful in tying up opponent's when they have a bunch of them moving and can get some lucky attacks in and allow the Ruler to take a turn. But after the Ruler was dead, they'd lose value pretty much other than trying to tie up opponent's figures. They'll get creamed by multiple attackers.

I guess I'd have to see how they did when bonding to see the synergy there. If they don't do well there, then maybe they can get their attack bumped up to 2. :shrug:

Edit: actually, after 7 of them couldn't even roll a skull against either of the 2 Fire Elementals I just had them go against, I might just suggest now that they go to an attack of 2. I mean, short of having height, which is hard to do or being within 2 spaces of their 1 Ruler (just begging for Area of Effect attacks) these guys are pitiful in their attacks. Blade Orcs have bonding and an attack/def of 2 and Civilians can at least easily boost their attack by getting adjacent to one another. I figure that Moloids should be able to muster an attack of 2 normally. They still have a defense of 1 on most terrain, so they will still go down easily most of the time. They can swarm, but they aren't the most mobile units and their size of 4 restricts some climbing ability.

So unless there are any objections, I'm going to do further testing with them having an attack of 2 and keeping the same price.

[IAmBatman]

I'm in favor. A bump to an attack of 2 was what I was considering too. :-)

[Hahma]

Yea, otherwise they are pretty feeble offensively and any defensive boost from Cave Dwellers only delayed the inevitable.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, even swarm armies need more than one attack die to function with.
Honestly, about the only time I think we should give anything an attack of 1 in the future, with all these super hard to kill heroes, is if they have a special power that stops you from rolling defense.

[Hahma]

Yeah, I agree. I think we were trying to keep them from having too much potential with the swarming and bonding, but if they can't attack for a hill of beans, then they aren't very useful.

[IAmBatman]

Yep, a melee attack of 2 when you only have life and defense of 1 still isn't anything to write home about. The fact that you can activate multiples is the only thing making them worth an Order Marker.

[Hahma]

Yep, a melee attack of 2 when you only have life and defense of 1 still isn't anything to write home about. The fact that you can activate multiples is the only thing making them worth an Order Marker.

And with them being melee only and occasional 2 defense, unless there is like 10-20 of them, their swarm won't be overly devastating as they are pretty easy to kill.

With the bump to attack of 2, I think they will be much better for a cheap figure and they will help their bonding unit much better. This will make the Tunnel Surprise better with getting the Moloids into a good position to get at least attacks of 3 (or 4 with height) because they will be traveling closely with Mole Man in that circumstance.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

What if they kept their attack of 1, but they could roll all of their attack dice into one attack? This would make swarming a necessity to be effective, and very thematic. Something like
Surrounded
For all Moloids activated this turn, instead of rolling their attacks seperately, you may choose one enemy figure to target and roll attack dice equal to the number of Moloids adjacent to this target. You may only Surround one target per activation.

Wording sucks, but I think you get the idea.

EDIT: to this I would add one to defense and get rid of Cave Dwellers.

[Hahma]

I understand where you're coming from Spidey, but the problem I see with that is that is that these guys aren't exactly very mobile. While their move of 5 is fine, their height of 4 restricts their movement up and down. That said, it's not always easy to surround an opponent's figure, unless it's a melee figure and then even if you got 3 around the opponent's figure, you'd be giving up 3 attacks of 2 for 1 attack of 3. Or 5 attacks of 2 for 1 attack of 5. They'd still be pretty easy to kill, so the attrition rate would really lower their ability to surround often in a game and then when attacking 1 v 1, they'd totally suck with 1 attack die. Also, if you did that, you'd sacrifice height advantage so instead of getting 2 attacks of 3 (2 Moloids with height) and 2 attacks of 2 (same level Moloids), you'd get only 1 attack of 4. Personally, I'd rather have 2 attacks of 3 and 2 attacks of 2 instead of 1 attack of 4. The more times you have to make an opponent roll defense, the better the chances of them only rolling on shield or whiffing.

With that all said, I'll let others chime in to see what they think of a possible change with Spidey's suggestion or any other one. However, I did just re-run the test with 7 Moloids vs 2 Fire Elementals with the Moloids having attack of 2 and 1 Moloid survived to win. I'll keep up testing as my time for that is limited to early in the morning or later at night, so I'll keep going the way I am but if others want a change, then I'll do it again with one other change total as I'm not going to keep testing them and keep changing them. If there's going to be any change I'll only re-test one time after the change to 2 attack.

[IAmBatman]

I'm with Hahma on this one. It's a quick, elegant fix, and doesn't require any other testing. :-)

[A3n]

I like all of Hahma's reasoning & give it my :up:

Cheers

[Hahma]

I've got the rest of my HH tests and 2 squad tests done as well as first army test. I'll update test sheet when I can and try to get working on second army test.

[IAmBatman]

Playtest is linked on the first post - sorry for the delay in doing that!

[Hahma]

Thanks and no problem, I would have done it myself, but you know....:)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I'm with Hahma on this one. It's a quick, elegant fix, and doesn't require any other testing. :-)
For the record, I don't have any issues with Hahma's suggestions either. I just feel that one area we have been (suffering is not the right word) struggling(?) with is that we take the first suggestion for fixes, we don't offer enough options. I was trying to remedy this by offering another choice. I think this is an area we need to work on. Not a huge deal, just that we could be better at it. "If you aren't striving to move forward, your slipping backward."

[Hahma]

I'm with Hahma on this one. It's a quick, elegant fix, and doesn't require any other testing. :-)
For the record, I don't have any issues with Hahma's suggestions either. I just feel that one area we have been (suffering is not the right word) struggling(?) with is that we take the first suggestion for fixes, we don't offer enough options. I was trying to remedy this by offering another choice. I think this is an area we need to work on. Not a huge deal, just that we could be better at it. "If you aren't striving to move forward, your slipping backward."


The thing is Spidey that in this case, your suggestion was going to have a pretty big impact on the design when only a tweak seemed to be needed. The Swarming and Cave Dweller boost seemed fine but they were really just lacking offensively. Besides sacrificing several smaller attacks for one mediocre attack didn't seem worth it as for instance Migol can only take one wound at a time if he rolls at least one shield. So a 4 skull attack from 4 Moloids could only result in 1 wound if he rolls only 1 shield. However, if those 4 Moloids each attacked with an attack of 2 and there were a couple rolls of 2 skulls and he only rolled 1 shield vs. both of those attacks, then he gets 2 wounds from the same # of Moloids instead of only 1. There are other reasons too, as you'd likely need to clump your Moloids pretty close together to be able to get them gangin up on someone and these clumps would make them even more vulnerable to area of effect attacks. Individually, their attack of 1 would have really sucked bad and they'd have no real redeaming qualities. At least Civilians can easily get attack and defense of 2 anywhere and can Panic, and Deathreavers with an attack of 1 have a defense of 4, Disengage and Scatter to make them a real pain to play against.

I'm not opposed to looking at several options when something is way off in testing, but these guys didn't seem way off. Heck, we've made changes after ERB on occasions and that might have been after changes already made during initial playtesting, so we do that on occasion. Sometimes just a small tweak is needed without spending weeks trying to get everyone on the same page with a major change.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I totally agree, Hahma. I really liked your tweaks better myself actually. Like I said, I just feel we, on occasion, may be taking the easy road by taking the first thing suggested rather than looking at options. It was nothing personal, I just took this opportunity to make my statement.

[Griffin]

What Hahma said. This is a case where our trusted initial tester needs a small tweak made to move the unit forward. I am good with that. :up:

[IAmBatman]

I think there's a difference between the easy road and a preference for light touches ... but if you ever see us taking the easy road, I'm happy to have you call us on it! :-)
If we'd resisted the easy road more on Poison Ivy, we'd have a Poison Ivy who could place trees on the battlefield right now ... :-P

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think there's a difference between the easy road and a preference for light touches ... but if you ever see us taking the easy road, I'm happy to have you call us on it! :-)
If we'd resisted the easy road more on Poison Ivy, we'd have a Poison Ivy who could place trees on the battlefield right now ... :-P
:word: This is what I am talking about here.

[IAmBatman]

Man ... I just can't wait to get some more designs going ... I have write ups for everything I've drafted and a couple more for things I haven't drafted yet ... :-P

[Hahma]

I hear you Bats. I just finished the 2nd army test for Moloids and will try to get it and the 1st army test posted on the test sheet tomorrow. I updated the test sheet already with the remaining HH tests after bump up to 2 attack and the 2 squad tests I did.

I may have to go back on my no design policy until FF is more done because after getting Moloids test sheet updated, I have to wait until they go through ERB, playtesting and final editing phase before I can test Mole Man. I still have to find background pix and such for some units, but maybe I'll get Madame Hydra going again pretty soon while I'm waiting on other stuff. :D

[IAmBatman]

I hope you do! :-)

[Hahma]

Test sheet updated and complete. :woot:

[Griffin]

Good looking report Hambone! :up:

[IAmBatman]

Good stuff! I think these guys are ready for the ERB!

[Hahma]

I propose we move Moloids to ERB phase

[IAmBatman]

Yea! I'll update the thread title.

[Griffin]

Yea.

[Hahma]

Yea! I'll update the thread title.

Thanks for updating the title. :D

[IAmBatman]

No worries. I almost posted suggesting you do it and then I was like ... oh yeah, Griff screwed the Mods on this one. :-P

[A3n]

Yea for ERB

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I got two Yeas on Moloids.

[Hahma]

Possible background pix for Moloids, some can possibly also be used for Mole Man

Bats or Griff can you please link this post to the first page. Thanks.

1.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/moloid%20and%20mole%20man%20background%20pix/caveimageformoleman.jpg

2.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/moloid%20and%20mole%20man%20background%20pix/caveimageformoloids.jpg

3.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/moloid%20and%20mole%20man%20background%20pix/caveimageformoloids2.jpg

4.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/moloid%20and%20mole%20man%20background%20pix/caveimageformoloids3.jpg

5.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/moloid%20and%20mole%20man%20background%20pix/caveimageformoloids4.jpg

6.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/moloid%20and%20mole%20man%20background%20pix/caveimageformoloids5.jpg

7.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/moloid%20and%20mole%20man%20background%20pix/caveimageformoloids6.jpg

[IAmBatman]

Done.

[SirGalahad]

yea for ERB

[IAmBatman]

OK - this one passes in 28 minutes or a Whitey vote! :-)

[Hahma]

Proposal passes to ERB and sent to Wulfhunter and Eclipse.

[IAmBatman]

Sweet! :-)

[Hahma]

First response from Eclipse:



I'd lean on slightly overpowered, but I can't really tell. Sort of depends on enforcement of the 24 hex rule. (rarely comes up in Marvel after all). Part of me thinks maybe trading a Move point for some defense would be more thematic. Honestly, I'm probably not the best help with this one, but they look interesting

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... I wonder if we shouldn't try 50 of them in an army, just once, just to see how it goes. If they were too crazy powerful at that level (which I doubt), then I'd be in favor of lowering their move to 4.

[Hahma]

That would take up a good portion of the map just to get 50 of them on there. But then which map do you use? I mean did the official designers test 48 Deathreavers vs. a 480 point army? The map can make a big difference, as Platforms 5 & 6 would be much different than one with a lot of road. And dungeon, shadow, rock heavy maps would be different than all grass or urban maps. Melee opponents vs. all ranged opponents or a single Heavy hitters would be different than DD and Punisher.

Edit:

The most I tested them with was 16 so they can take advantage of their bonding with a One Ruler. Any casual game or tournament that allows more than 24 starting spaces would also have to face like 48 Deathreavers or 28 4th Mass, 30 Marro Drones or Dividers (that can keep coming back) or any other crazy number of cheap commons. If anyone lets more than 24 hex starting zone, then they get what they deserve IMO.

If anything, maybe instead of lowering their move to Zombie level (we see how many people use them :roll:) we would if we felt it necessary, change the Swarm d20 #'s to 1-12 =5 activate, 13-19 =7 activate and 20=10 activate. I'd rather mess with that than to significantly slow them down, I mean at least the Civilians with their slow move get free moves with Panic.

[IAmBatman]

We could just have someone build a symmetrical, non BOV map that's on the large side and thus has bigger startzones to test this out. In fact, I might try to do this in the next couple of days now that Swamp Thing is done and I don't feel up to quite a full playtest yet ...

[Hahma]

Sure, if you want to give it a shot. :D I did edit my previous post to add more.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, you're right. I really don't think there's an issue here. :-) I might get lazy and skip it all together. Color me unconcerned.

[Hahma]

Well we can see what the other 3 active heroes besides us think or if they have any concerns. We can also see what Wulfhunter has to say.

[IAmBatman]

Sounds good! :-)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I trust the playtests. If Hahma doesn't think its a problem, I trust him. We might however consider tailoring one of the playtests to check this out. Maybe handpick a playtester this once or decide which you trust more when both tests are taken.

[Griffin]

I trust the playtests. If Hahma doesn't think its a problem, I trust him. We might however consider tailoring one of the playtests to check this out. Maybe handpick a playtester this once or decide which you trust more when both tests are taken.
Not to mention that a ton of moloids with a low defense all nice and huddled up would be a ton of fun to destroy with any figure that has multiple attacks, shotgun, or napalm. :twisted: :unconcerned:

[IAmBatman]

Supernova say what? That'd almost be an instant kill!

[Hahma]

ERB response from Wulfhunter:

Mechanically, I see nothing wrong with the Moloid. But I have to ask, why isn't this guy in a squad of 3? And for that matter, why is this guy in here at all? I mean, I get that you need some filler units and a super low cost fig would fill that purpose, but in Superscape, this guy would be darn near useless. This a max possible attack of 3 in the most ideal of situations, and a max possible defense of 2 in ideal situations, he wouldn't even really be a threat to most of the figures out there. Since a fair number have flying, they wouldn't even be a good stop-gap measure. Sorry to be getting down on your creation, but I just don't see the point.
Wulfhunter667


He obviously doesn't get it as far as the FF master set or whatever. I replied to his PM and let him know a little more about why we created them and their use and potential.

[IAmBatman]

So, Hahma, just as a follow up to his post, in gameplay, with a Ruler drafted with them, do you think a horde of these guys can compete with super heroes? Could they take down the Fan Four if given even points?

[Hahma]

I'm not ignoring your question Bats, as we just discussed it on the phone. :D


Unless anyone has other concerns, I propose we move Moloid Common Hero to playtesting.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

One Yes.

[Griffin]

So, Hahma, just as a follow up to his post, in gameplay, with a Ruler drafted with them, do you think a horde of these guys can compete with super heroes? Could they take down the Fan Four if given even points?
I personally don't need these guys to be very competitive, just thematic cannon fodder with some chance of being slightly dangerous, and a guarantee of being annoying and fun at the same time.

Yea

[A3n]

So, Hahma, just as a follow up to his post, in gameplay, with a Ruler drafted with them, do you think a horde of these guys can compete with super heroes? Could they take down the Fan Four if given even points?
I personally don't need these guys to be very competitive, just thematic cannon fodder with some chance of being slightly dangerous, and a guarantee of being annoying and fun at the same time.

Yea

That echoes my opinion of them also.

Yea

[whitestuff]

Yea

[NecroBlade]

I'm agreeing with what I'm hearing from the rest of the C3G guys as well and not too concerned about the...concerns. Yea.

[IAmBatman]

yea x2 and I think these guys would be great meat shields/map control in a Magneto army, for the record. :-)

[Hahma]

Just need Sir G:D

[Hahma]

Just need Sir G :D


yea x2 and I think these guys would be great meat shields/map control in a Magneto army, for the record.

Yeah I agree, tie up an opponent and blast them or throw them with Magneto. They also make cheap Fastball Special ammo for Colossus. Speaking of which, good counter to Mags, or any mind control opponent's on a Lava map like Martian War. I tested him with Namor on that map and while it never came up before while using him because I hadn't played him on a Lava map, his Steel Skin makes him impervious to Lava Field and Molten Lava, so nobody is going to kill him by throwing or marching him into Molten Lava :D

[Griffin]

yea x2 and I think these guys would be great meat shields/map control in a Magneto army, for the record. :-)
That reminds me, there is a Magneto mini from the House of M story line that would make a great Ruler. :ponder:

[IAmBatman]

OK, down to fewer than 6 hours (or Sir G's vote!)

[SirGalahad]

Sorry, yesterday was Opening Day for our youth soccer league - 750 kids, 10 hours in the sun and the wind. Lady G and I are retiring as president and registrar after this season.

YEA

[Hahma]

Thank you Sir G. I understand Soccer is a beast, that's why we aren't letting our twin girls anywhere near a soccer ball. :D

Moloid Common Hero passes to Playtest Phase.

[Hahma]

yea x2 and I think these guys would be great meat shields/map control in a Magneto army, for the record. :-)
That reminds me, there is a Magneto mini from the House of M story line that would make a great Ruler. :ponder:

That would be interesting. :D

[SirGalahad]

Thank you Sir G. I understand Soccer is a beast, that's why we aren't letting our twin girls anywhere near a soccer ball. :D

C'mon -- youth soccer would be great if it weren't for the parents. :lol:

[A3n]

Thank you Sir G. I understand Soccer is a beast, that's why we aren't letting our twin girls anywhere near a soccer ball. :D

C'mon -- youth soccer would be great if it weren't for the parents. :lol:

Soccer is a great team sport for either sex of any age.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Thank you Sir G. I understand Soccer is a beast, that's why we aren't letting our twin girls anywhere near a soccer ball. :D


How can you deprive your children of the "beautiful game?"

[Hahma]

Thank you Sir G. I understand Soccer is a beast, that's why we aren't letting our twin girls anywhere near a soccer ball. :D

C'mon -- youth soccer would be great if it weren't for the parents. :lol:

Thank you Sir G. I understand Soccer is a beast, that's why we aren't letting our twin girls anywhere near a soccer ball. :D

C'mon -- youth soccer would be great if it weren't for the parents. :lol:

Soccer is a great team sport for either sex of any age.

Thank you Sir G. I understand Soccer is a beast, that's why we aren't letting our twin girls anywhere near a soccer ball. :D


How can you deprive your children of the "beautiful game?"


Okay okay already fellas, I've got them signed up in every league in the county. :D Actually, I'll let them play or do whatever interests them, whether it's sports, instruments, dancing, Heroscape, Heroscape, Heroscape... or whatever. :D We had them doing Karate before and they only lasted one 8 week session. Had them at swim lessons and this year they've spent a ton of time in our pool. We kick the soccer ball around in the back yard and use a six foot section of our fence as the goal. We play whiffle ball, ride bikes and they like their scooters. They get in different moods when they like to play with their dolls a lot, or do crafts/color/draw alot, they play video games but not much (though a little more in the winter). So if they decide they want to get into that "beautiful game" of soccer, then that's cool, we'll sign them up and tote them around. My wife even has a minivan to be the stereotypical soccer mom (though not in bad attitude of some parents).

[Hahma]

Here's Lord Pyre's Playtest Sheet for Moloids.

Quote:
Moloids

-THEME TEST/
Pass The first FF comic I read had moloids (I think), and that was way back when I only knew about Batman and Superman, so I was completely confused, not even knowing who the heroes are. Pointless story aside, the little cave goblins play just like I’d expect little cave goblins to play.

MIRROR TEST/
Pass

- BONDING TEST/
Pass Dr. Doom and Moleman, that’s it for now!

- SYNERGIES TEST/
Pass

- POWER CHECK/
Pass I was pondering whether to pass this or not. Throughout the tests, I went back and forth between TOO powerful, and weak. So if sometimes they’re overpowered, and sometimes they’re useless, doesn’t that average to the middle? I’ll let you guys decide for sure, looking at my tests.

- FUN TEST/
Pass They were definitely fun! …At first. Moving that many freaking mole people was starting to get old at the end. :razz: But it didn’t stop me from doing a bunch of extra squad tests just for fun, haha! I’m sure with Moleman and the new Doom, they’d be more fun, since classic Doom dies fast.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/
Pass Well, 5 man squads were avoided in classic ‘Scape, so I was a little wary, but the fact that they were so weak seemed to balance it all out!

- DRAFTING TEST/
Pass Not good as a filler unit, but if you snatched up 12 of them, you’ve got a solid force that’ll take a little time to wear down.

- USAGE TEST/
Pass All abilities used!

- STRATEGY TEST/
Pass Swarm forward immediately, or wait for the rest of the pack to catch up? Hmm, that choice alone is probably a huge strategy since they die so fast, depending on what you’re fighting, and the map, etc…




Map: Fossil, by Rÿchean
(Having Fossil already set up, Hahma suggested proxying the sand as rock, and Swamp water as shadow, so that’s what I did)


Heavy Hitter Test:
I purposefully picked some nasty matchups for these guys, to see exactly how well they’d do; I expected them to win almost every time, but…

7x Moloids vs Johnny Sullivan

I: Moloids win R2T1, with 4 dead
II: Johnny wins R2T2, with 4 wounds
III: Johnny wins R2T2, with 4 wounds

That second battle, they had Johnny COMPLETELY surrounded, but he killed 6 in two shotgun blasts, ending the game rather quickly. I tried spreading them out, but when they got close to him for the attack, he managed to blow groups away, every time.



8x Moloids vs Kumiko

I: Moloids win R2T3, with 3 dead
II: Kumiko wins R3T3, with 2 wounds
III: Moloids win R2T3, with 1 dead

I don’t think I’ve used Kumiko before. She’s fun, haha! Without her having a gun, the moloids were able to turtle on the sand/rock better, so they could block her multiple attacks a bit easier. But for the most part, I put them in the shadow, they lost the height, but they gained +2 defense from it, and Kumiko’s special attack doesn’t get boosted from the height, so that really helped the moloids out for these tests.



8x vs Erevan

I: Moloids win R1T3, with 1 dead
II: Moloids win R3T1, with 4 dead
III: Moloids win R3T1, with 3 dead

I thought this’d be a good fight. Poor guy didn’t stand a chance… First round was brutal, they killed him before he could do pretty much anything! The second round, he got lucky with his fire blast and killed three in one turn, but then he died. His Fey step barely helped, except when he got COMPLETELY surrounded, but then some Moloids just flanked him from the other side of the map, so he still fell.



12x vs Kaemon Awa

I: KA wins R2T3, with 2 wounds
II: KA wins R2T2, with 1 wound
III: KA wins R3T2, with 3 wounds

Hehe, Mr. Awasome strikes again! Two mole men died almost every turn, from arrows or counterstrike! They simply had no chance! If he got surrounded, he’d shoot two, and then let counterstrike do the rest!



12x vs Hydra

I: Hydra wins R2T3, with 2 wounds
II: Hydra wins R3T1, with 1 wound
III: Hydra wins R2T2, with 2 wounds

I swarmed the beast with as many as I could attack with, while keeping the others out of range of it’s long necks, but they just couldn’t penetrate it’s 6 defense! With maybe another 5 moloids, they could’ve won, but multiple attacks and 6 defense eats right through them!!



Squad test:

11x vs Minions

I: Moloids win R2T3, with 5 dead
II: Minions win R2T3, with 0 dead
III: Minions win R2T2, with 0 dead

Moloids got lucky, killing one of them right off the bat, limiting the amount of Moloids that can die every turn. But the other battles, the Moloids couldn’t break through the 6 defense, and were eventually slaughtered.



6x vs Harquebus

I: Harqs win R1T3, with 2 dead
II: Harqs win R2T3, with 3 dead
III: Harqs win R2T1, with 0 dead

Moloids run forward, get shot. That’s pretty much what happened. Occasionally they’d get close enough to kill a few, but it took one turn to kill 4 moloids, basically, because of their low defense.



4x vs Yari

I: Yari win R1T3, with 1 dead
II: Moloids win R1T3, with 1 dead
III: Yari win R1T3, with 1 dead

Looking back, I have no idea why I even did this, considering they’re practically exactly the same power, with a slight edge to the Moloids with the defense bonus, which doesn’t even help that much, so…



8x vs 2x Yari

Moloids win R2T1, with 2 dead

Because of the last battle, I decided to ramp it up a bit, and the outcome was what I expected. Only having 4 Moloids limited their offensive and swarm ability, so when at full power, they plowed right through the Yari extremely quickly.



Hehe, I wasn’t going to do another, but I just couldn’t resist…

12x vs 2x Zombies

Zombies win R3T1, with 0 dead, three having rose again.

I kind of expected that, but not QUITE as brutally. The Moloids killed 3 pretty quickly, but in no time they came back, and the Moloids just couldn’t kill any more zombies!!! That was fun, hehehe!



Army Tests:

(600 point battle)

Dr. Doom
Raelin
KMA
Moloids x17

Vs.

Kato
Kaemon Awa
Izumi Samurai
2x Yari
2x Harquebeus
Marcu

R1 Ashigaru move up and swarm the high ground. Doom, and 5 Moloids rush forward, with Raelin flying forward next turn. Kato jumps to the hill with the tree for a better view. The Ashigaru kill 3 moloids, and Doom and the moloids counter by killing 2 Yari
R2 Raelin flies to a better position to use her bonus, and misses a Yari. Harqs shoot Raelin, dealing 2 wounds. Doom puts a wound on Kato, and the moloids kill two more Yari. Harqs and Yari kill a Moloid each.
R3 Harqs kill a moloid, and finish off Raelin, while the Yari kill another Moloid. Doom adds 2 more to Kato, and the Moloids kill the last 2 Yari, and a Harq. Kaemon enters the battle, killing off a moloid. Doom attacks Kato again, but misses, but the Moloids kill 2 Harqs, and add 1 wound to Kato. Kaemon tries to protect Kato, but only kills one of the Moloids attacking him (There were two)
R4 Kaemon abandons Kato, and puts 3 wounds on Doom. Doom misses Kaemon, and then 2 moloids using the Ruler attack boost attack Kaemon, but they both miss, and one dies from counterstrike. 3 other Moloids kill off 3 more Harqs. Kato has the Izumi enter the battle, but they miss the one Moloid that was in range. Doom attacks Kaemon again, dealing 2 wounds. The moloids kill off two Izumi, who decided not to roll any defense today. Kaemon kills one moloid from counterstrike, then proceeds to shoot Doom again, finishing him, and then following up by killing a Moloid. But Kaemon’s killing spree was put to a stop when the Krav Agents pull out and finish him, but miss Kato.
R5 Kato takes a turn with the final 2 Harqs, killing 1 moloid. The moloids wound Marcu, and kill off Kato, but Marcu eats the moloid that hurt him. The KMA shoot at the last samurai and Marcu, but whiff, and Marcu kills off one of them, now fully healed.
R6 Marcu kills another KMA, and the last KMA put 3 wounds on Marcu. Marcu engages the Agent, but misses. The Agent whiffs his attack, and Marcu finally kills him, healing a wound. The last two moloids kill off Marcu.
R7 The moloids kill 1 Harq, and the last Harq kills a moloid. There are two order markers on the samurai, with none left on the Harqs (One samurai, one harq, and one moloid left). The moloid chooses the samurai, to try to make them lose turns, but dies to counterstrike.


One Harquebus and one Izumi Samurai survive!

I wanted to see how a swarm would do against a swarm. It was pretty fun, and down to the last couple figures! I thought the moloids would completely overpower the ashigaru, though, but with Kaemon killing Doom so easily, and the 8 activations from Kato, it was much more balanced then I guessed.



(500 point battle)

Dr. Doom
Airborne Elite
Moloids x 14

Vs.

STEAMROLLER!!!
(Needs three exclamation points, just because)

R1, no drop. Crixus and the glads move onto the road, as the Moloids and Doom do the same. Doom goes for the kill right off the bat, flying to the other side of the board and shooting Spartacus, causing 2 wounds to him. Enraged, Spartacus takes a few steps forward, and even though Doom has height, he puts 3 wounds on him, making it easy for the three Capuans to finish him off, on turn 2 of the game. The moloids kill 2 glads, and put 1 wound on Sparty, making me a little nervous about losing him. But Sparty and the glads kill 4 more moloids next turn.
R2, AE drop! But they lose initiative, and Sparty and the glads kill a moloid (Missing an AE), and spread out a little, just in case. The AE decide not to use grenades, considering two of them are engaged, and kill 2 glads, and put a wound on Crixus. Sparty (He’s been in range more than Crixus has, so I used him a lot more, generally) obliterates an AE with 5 skulls, and the glads kill an AE and 2 moloids. The AE decide to throw grenades, even though they can each only affect two figures. Luck was not with them, as both grenades were double shields. They should check their equipment before dropping into battle. Crixus and the glads kill 3 moloids, and the respond by killing a glad.
R3 AE put 1 wound on Crixus, and miss Sparty. Crixus kills the AE, and then Sparty and the glads corner the last remaining moloids behind the hive, with Crixus on one side, and them on the other. The moloids didn’t stand a chance.

5 Capuans dead, Spartacus with 3 wounds, and Crisux with 2.

Well, my guesses throughout testing were that the moloids might be too powerful, with so many activations per turn. But as this proves, their two attack can barely penetrate anything. The Capuans just shook off attack after attack, and the moloids single defense (Aside from rock, etc) pretty much ensures that at least 2-3 die every turn. But I think the game might go differently if Doom didn’t die so quickly, giving the moloids the extra attack boost. And if he had been able to mindlink Spartacus to run forward into the swarm of moloids, that might’ve been the end. But that’s not what happened, so…


These guys are difficult. I really want to say they’re either too powerful, or too weak! They always seem overbearing, but as you see, they lost more games then they won! So if I can’t decide if they’re too good, or not enough, doesn’t that average in the middle? :wink:
They are essentially a 5 man squad, and that’s how I tried to treat them, for the most part. I think they’re pretty balanced, but also with that many figures, I kind of understand why classic “Scape has shied away from 5 figure squads! With the exception of the Marro Drones, no other card can really move that many figures. Oh, and Kato, haha! Well, in that case, maybe they’re not too much. :razz: I just kind of lost track of them after a while! And with the same sculpt for each figure, they could be a nightmare! But actual gameplay wise, I think they’re fine. MAYBE add to the swarm ability, that if you get a 1, then you can only use 3 or so, but then if you have 5 or less, you’d still have to roll, which can get annoying, since I just didn’t bother rolling, obviously, at that point.
You’d have to read the other report, since though I did the testing, I still can’t really decide if they’re just right. I’ll leave it to you guys. :wink:

[Griffin]

Good stuff Hahma. I hope to read this report more later.

[IAmBatman]

Likewise - you guys both have posted what look to be interesting playtesting reports, but it'll be a bit before I have the mental energy to read them! :-)

[Hahma]

Good stuff Hahma. I hope to read this report more later.

Likewise - you guys both have posted what look to be interesting playtesting reports, but it'll be a bit before I have the mental energy to read them! :-)

I agree, I will have to look closer at Lord Pyre's test sheet later as well. But in the meantime, can one of you wonderful people link his test to the first page please. :D

[IAmBatman]

Got it.

[Hahma]

Thanks Professor. :D

[Hahma]

Here are Quozl's playtest results. He didn't send it in the proper format, but at least I was able to highlight the areas in red instead of black that they had been. I'll pm him a request for the top portion of the sheet. Please link to first page. :D



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma
If possible try testing on two different maps for army tests,

Aw, man! I forgot about this and did all my testing on Martian War Zone: The Heat. Sorry about that!

Here are my results:

For Heavy Hitters, I used 10 Moloids.

1. Major X17 only took one wound against them with his Melee Defense and took them all out (with a little lava field help) in 4 rounds.

2. Toad pulled 1 Moloid into molten lava with his tongue but another Moloid attacked with height, got 3 skulls and Toad whiffed on Defense! By round 3, Toad falls to the swarm. 7 Moloids remained.

3. Agent Carr got attacked by 2 Moloids and whiffed with his Defense both times taking 3 wounds in one round! He only ended up getting 2 Moloids next round before they got him. 8 Moloids remained.

4. Angel gets swarmed in the first round and took 2 wounds. He only ended up getting 4 Moloids before they finished him in the second round. 6 Moloids remained.

5. Syvarris took out 3 Moloids in the first round and 3 more in the second. He got surrounded but had some great defense rolls! N round 3, Syvarris took only 1 wound and finished off the rest of the Moloids.



For the squad test, I used 10 Moloids vs. 2 squads of Romans.
In the first round, the Romans got 2 Moloids and 1 fell to lava fields. In the second round, the Romans got 6 more and the Moloids only got 3 Romans. In the third round, the Moloids get 1 more before the Romans finish them off. 3 Romans remaining.



For the first army test, I used Dr. Doom, 10 Moloids, Deadpool, and Bob vs. Batman, Robin, Black Canary, and Green Arrow.

In round 1, Doom flew out and smacked Robin who whiffed on Defense and took 3 wounds. Black Canary moved in but was blocked, Robin got one of the Moloids in revenge, and Green Arrow rolled a 20 against Doom but only 1 skull.

In round 2, Black Canary took out Doom and Robin got a lucky shot on Deadpool for 2 wounds but Bob had his revenge and took out Robin. The Moloids swarmed but got no wounds although one died to Batman's Evasive Strike. Canary Cry took out 3 Moloids but then Deadpool put 3 wounds on Black Canary. He healed his 2 wounds and then lava field finished off Black Canary.

In round 3, Batman got a Moloid while Deadpool took out Green Arrow. Then Batman took out Bob and tried for Deadpool but Deadpool got Batman first, winning the game. 1Moloid remained along with Deadpool, fully healed.

My second army test was Doctor Doom, 12 Moloids, Deadpool, Bob, Green Goblin, and Harley Quinn vs. Professor X, Cyclops, Pyro, Nightcralwer, Wolverine, and Angel

In round 1, Angel carried out Cyclops and Cylops blasted the start zone, getting 1 wound on Green Goblin and taking out 3 Moloids. Doom then Mind Exchanged Cyclops and sent him into the start zone to be surrounded by Moloids (and out of Professor X's range). the Moloids only got 1 wound on him. Angel then flew back to bring up more Mutants and Doom followed and Mind Exchanged Professor X to move him farther away. Meanwhile, the Moloids got another wound on Cyclops. Angel then carried Pyro who got 4 skulls on Living Flame which put 3 wounds on Doom and took out a Moloid.

In round 2, Cyclops struck back and took out 5 Moloids wih Optic Beam but then fell to Deadpool, who also wounded Pyro. Pyro got another Moloid but then fell to Harley Quinn. Green Goblin moved up and dropped a pumpkin bomb which was a dud.

In round 3, Nightcrawler bamfed over and got a wound on Deadpool and then Green Goblin bombed Wolverine for 2 wounds and attacked Professor X for 3 wounds. Wolverine took out Deadpool and then Green Goblin finished off professor X. Harley Quinn threw her bomb and got a wound on both Wolverine and Angel and removed Wolverine's X marker too!

In round 4, Green Goblin put 2 more wounds on Wolverine and Wolverine put wounds on Green Goblin so that both of them only had one life left at the end of the round (before Wolverine's X healed another wound).

In round 5, Wolverine got the initiative and took out Green Goblin and Harley Quinn and the Moloids conceded with only 1 Moloid left. Angel had 3 wounds and Wolverine fully healed in the last round.

My thoughts: whle the Moloids are pretty wimpy, their swarming can work really well, especially with height or an attack boost from their Ruler. They die quickly but do well just getting in the way while the heavy hitters get in position and take out the other army who is surrounded by pesky Moloids. I like them a lot. Thanks for the opportunity to playtest them!

[IAmBatman]

Sounds like the Moloids were a hit and perfectly balanced as is! I think we have a winner on our hands! Great work, team! :-)

[Hahma]

Yeah, no complaints of overpowered or not fun. If Swarm is hitting and they can even get some height for some attacks, they can have some really good games but they can also get mowed down too in some games. They can be fodder and tangle opponent's up and can also give free move to Ruler. Seems like they are okay. :D

[Griffin]

The only critique I have, is on Quozl's last test; he conceded with a Moloid left. I think that Moloid could have a chance of getting another wound in on someone, like Angel who was one away from death. I don't want to see that happen again. But overall, a great test.

[IAmBatman]

Preemptive votex2 to move these bad boys to Whole Set testing.

[Hahma]

I propose to move Moloid Common Hero to Whole Set Testing Phase.

That's 3 Yeas, including Bats' 2 Yeas

[IAmBatman]

It's going to be so cool having a 10 point common hero filler fodder for SuperHeroscape games ...

[whitestuff]

Yea

[A3n]

Yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

2 Yeas.

[Hahma]

7 Yeas so far, just need Sir G and Griff. :D

When these guys go to Whole Set Testing, I believe that means I can start testing Mole Man after I get done with Annihilus and use these Moloids in his army tests. Sweet! :D

[Griffin]

Yea

[SirGalahad]

yea

[Hahma]

Moloids pass to Whole Set Testing :D

[IAmBatman]

Sweet! Will update.

[SirGalahad]

Did you decide which mini you were going to use?

http://www.trollandtoad.com/products/search.php?searchmode=basic&search_words=moloid&search_category=1285&Image1.x=13&Image1.y=9

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Secret Invasion set. Its model number and name is #002/Moloid.

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Critical Mass set. Its model number and name is #001-003/Moloid.

[IAmBatman]

I like both. Any opinions?

[Hahma]

Well since I have the Critical Mass ones and have pictures of them already, and they seem more plentiful and cheaper, those are the ones I vote for. :D

[IAmBatman]

Critical Mass it is! By the way, thanks as always for doing such a great job tracking down mini info, Sir G!

[Griffin]

Critical Mass all the way. They look much better and they don't come with that stupid rock. Oh, and they are cheap. ;)

[A3n]

Critical Mass gets my vote also.

[IAmBatman]

Yep - I think I've ordered about 7 or 8 of each at this point. I'm happy to mix them though, personally, so whatever's on the card is cool with me. :-)

[Griffin]

I have 10, and if I ever need more, I will get out my Zombies of Morrindan. 8)

[IAmBatman]

I have 13. :-)

[Hahma]

I have 16. I had anticipated they were going to be 4 figure squads back when I ordered them a long time ago, so I figured I'd get 4 squads worth. But this is great too because I can sneak in an extra 1 or 2 in an army if need be because they are common heroes.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I might pick up 2 more eventually to get myself to 150 points worth.

[Griffin]

How badly do we need this power? Do these guys even deserve a defense power? Is that what they are about?


CAVE DWELLERS
While occupying a rock, dungeon or shadow space, a Moloid adds 1 to its defense.

I played with them and Moleman for his test, and in two full army tests, they may have blocked like twice. I guess I am OK with them being easily destroyed (cannon fodder) but their main ability is to swarm and overwhelm an opponent and the battlefield. Their minimum activation is 5 moloids and one Ruler. That is 6 activations per Order Marker, and they have the potential to go as high as 10. I am just not sure we need the added text that isn't very useful anyways, at least until they get other boosts, and then this power will be annoying when you have a Moloid on a shadow tile (+2), height (+1), and within Invisible Woman's aura (+2), or even a glyph (+1). That is a +6 in an extreme situation, but the likely situation is +2 for shadow, and +1 for height. That is +3 on top of their defense of 1. I don't know, I just don't think the power is useful most of time, and when it is helpful, I am gonna wish that it wasn't.

[IAmBatman]

Did they feel like they were worth more than 10 points with it or something? I found them balanced as is.

[Griffin]

Did they feel like they were worth more than 10 points with it or something? I found them balanced as is.
Balanced yes, but mostly the power never affected the game, so I see it as obsolete. The only time where it becomes a factor, is when there are other boosts giving them a defense power, and if/when that happens, I don't think I want weak-@ss Moloids to have their own defense power helping them out as well. But mostly, it is obsolete.

[IAmBatman]

I'm good with cutting it, then, actually. Let's keep the card cleaner if the power isn't useful.

[Hahma]

They were balanced for 3 of their own playtests and 3 of Mole Man's playtests (I'm guessing they were balanced with Mole Man for Griff) at 10 points. So while that power didn't affect a couple tests it doesn't mean that it will never come into play (especially since Mole Man will likely see most of his play on dungeon/shadow tile maps). I don't see them as filler units, especially now. So with their value decreased but their cost remaining at 10 points, I think the difference will need to come with Mole Man's cost because he's useless w/o Moloids and the easier they are to kill, the less valuable and useful he's going to be.

The value of Subterranean Swarm goes down very quick to the point that by the end of the first round, if you start out with 10 Moloids, you'll only have 5 left and not have to worry about rolling the d20 anymore for SS.

I guess I'm fine with the change to remove Cave Dwellers (after all this time and tests :roll:) but for me, it will affect Mole Man's cost.

[IAmBatman]

Well, I'd be against that. I already think that 110 is going to be higher than would be ideal for Mole Man.

[Hahma]

That's why I'd think that I wouldn't go any higher than 100 for him, especially now.

[IAmBatman]

Ditto - but I think I'd also prefer to keep Cave Dwellers intact so that he has more of a chance of pulling off sweet attacks on a Cave battlefield. The Moloids will need this boost when they go up against the Fan Four in a scenario.

[Hahma]

I agree. Most people won't have more than 12 Moloids in their Army I'd guess, so when they get down to 5 before they engage an opponent, it' would be the last time they used Mole Man and Moloids, especially in a Cave setting.

[Griffin]

So you guys want to keep a power on the Moloids and thereby hope to keep Mole Man's cost down? :confused:

[Hahma]

Mole Man with a bunch of quickly killed Moloids = crap and if Moloids were to become even more easy to kill by taking away Cave Dwellers than not only does that quickly ruin their Swarming power because they'll die so quick that you'll rarely get more than 5 activated and never 10, but if they are all dead, then Mole Man loses his Swarming Distraction power and he is a 4/4/4 crap unit not worth drafting IMO.

Granted, Cave Dwellers might not come into play a lot but on dungeon/cave maps, they'll at least have a better chance of survivability and be more fun to play and thus make Mole Man more fun and usable IMO.

[IAmBatman]

I don't feel, from my own play, that Moleman is undercosted at 100 points with the current write-ups for both cards. I feel he's spot on.

[Griffin]

Mole Man with a bunch of quickly killed Moloids = crap and if Moloids were to become even more easy to kill by taking away Cave Dwellers than not only does that quickly ruin their Swarming power because they'll die so quick that you'll rarely get more than 5 activated and never 10, but if they are all dead, then Mole Man loses his Swarming Distraction power and he is a 4/4/4 crap unit not worth drafting IMO.

Granted, Cave Dwellers might not come into play a lot but on dungeon/cave maps, they'll at least have a better chance of survivability and be more fun to play and thus make Mole Man more fun and usable IMO.
But they are already EXTREMELY easy to kill, and I don't think the combo is weak at all. Do you?

I can understand wanting to keep that theme, I do. I just wanted to voice the other side of things that the power currently is fairly obsolete and they die off rather easily, and even when the can use the boost, they are still going to die rather easily, which makes the power, IMO, obsolete. At least until you start to factor in other terrain boosts, power boosts, height boosts, glyph boosts, etc. Then at that point, I wonder if we will really want them to have a defense power. I guess you do. :p

[IAmBatman]

We're going to have whole set testing to do with them and Moleman too, I think, to figure this out.
Although, do we need to do that? Since we tested them together already ... ?

[Hahma]

Mole Man with a bunch of quickly killed Moloids = crap and if Moloids were to become even more easy to kill by taking away Cave Dwellers than not only does that quickly ruin their Swarming power because they'll die so quick that you'll rarely get more than 5 activated and never 10, but if they are all dead, then Mole Man loses his Swarming Distraction power and he is a 4/4/4 crap unit not worth drafting IMO.

Granted, Cave Dwellers might not come into play a lot but on dungeon/cave maps, they'll at least have a better chance of survivability and be more fun to play and thus make Mole Man more fun and usable IMO.
But they are already EXTREMELY easy to kill, and I don't think the combo is weak at all. Do you?

I can understand wanting to keep that theme, I do. I just wanted to voice the other side of things that the power currently is fairly obsolete and they die off rather easily, and even when the can use the boost, they are still going to die rather easily, which makes the power, IMO, obsolete. At least until you start to factor in other terrain boosts, power boosts, height boosts, glyph boosts, etc. Then at that point, I wonder if we will really want them to have a defense power. I guess you do. :p

Civilians get a boost from 1 to 2 when adjacent to another Human figure (up to a max of +1). Is that power obsolete as well? Sure they get to Panic, but they still have a better chance of survival with 2 def than 1. But in the Civilian's case that also works against them fro area of effect attacks because they have to be adjacent to another figure to get the boost and open for more attacks types. Moloids can get a bump up to 3 def with height on a rock or dungeon space, so that 3 can be a difference as opposed to just 2 they would get without Cave Dwellers.

I understand that they are physically frail, but being able to maneuver better in cave/dungeon settings can make them more elusive to make up for their frailty.

Is Beast's Negotiation power Obsolete? Is Catwoman's normal attack Obsolete? Is Green Arrow's Exploding Arrow obsolete? Is Hawkgirl's Nth Metal Mace obsolete? Is Joker's It's Just Not the Same obsolete? Is Plastic Man's Plastic Wrap obsolete? Is Superman's X-Ray Vision obsolete? Is Daredevil's Criminal Intimidation obsolete? Is the HYDRA Agents Immortal HYDRA obsolete? Is Punisher's Auto Shotgun obsolete?

There are a lot of powers that may not get used that often, but when they are needed and work, they can be pretty cool and fun in telling the story. :D

We're going to have whole set testing to do with them and Moleman too, I think, to figure this out.
Although, do we need to do that? Since we tested them together already ... ?

I think the thing for me is that I haven't seen anything in any playtests or ERB responses to indicate that there was a problem.

[IAmBatman]

:word: I'm with you, Hahma. I don't think anybody really sees a problem here but Griff.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I don't think Griff really sees a problem he is just being the voice of Balance... I mean giving a different opinion. ;) :p

[IAmBatman]

Nothing wrong with a little balance, but I think he's outvoiced here. :-)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I agree, Bats. :roll:

[Hahma]

I saw that and thought it was funny. :D

[IAmBatman]

I know that, Spidey. I also know this thread is going to be public in a couple of months. So you might think about things you post here ... ;-)

[Griffin]

Is Beast's Negotiation power Obsolete? Is Catwoman's normal attack Obsolete? Is Green Arrow's Exploding Arrow obsolete? Is Hawkgirl's Nth Metal Mace obsolete? Is Joker's It's Just Not the Same obsolete? Is Plastic Man's Plastic Wrap obsolete? Is Superman's X-Ray Vision obsolete? Is Daredevil's Criminal Intimidation obsolete? Is the HYDRA Agents Immortal HYDRA obsolete? Is Punisher's Auto Shotgun obsolete?

There are a lot of powers that may not get used that often, but when they are needed and work, they can be pretty cool and fun in telling the story. :D

But I use those powers all the time. :p

I agree, and acknowledge the theme. :done: :D

[Griffin]

I don't think Griff really sees a problem he is just being the voice of Balan... I mean giving a different opinion. ;) :p
:rofl: Someone has to carry the torch, and since I was the one who last got burned.... :reapershrug: :lol:

[Hahma]

Can someone please put this link on the first post for mini pix for the Moloids. I posted them way back in the thread and they got lost in the shuffle I guess. There are several pix as I took shots as if these guys were going to be a squad, but I didn't feel like sifting through them to delete some.

Moloid Mini pix (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1142555&postcount=40)

[IAmBatman]

Can someone please put this link on the first post for mini pix for the Moloids. I posted them way back in the thread and they got lost in the shuffle I guess. There are several pix as I took shots as if these guys were going to be a squad, but I didn't feel like sifting through them to delete some.

Moloid Mini pix (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1142555&postcount=40)

Got it.

[Hahma]

Thanks :thumbsup:

[SirGalahad]

I know that, Spidey. I also know this thread is going to be public in a couple of months. So you might think about things you post here ... ;-)

There is always the concept of Historical Revisionism, i.e. "Edit"

[IAmBatman]

I know that, Spidey. I also know this thread is going to be public in a couple of months. So you might think about things you post here ... ;-)

There is always the concept of Historical Revisionism, i.e. "Edit"

Oh, I know. :-) I was encouraging him to use that feature. I wasn't planning on editing his comments for him, though.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I know that, Spidey. I also know this thread is going to be public in a couple of months. So you might think about things you post here ... ;-)

There is always the concept of Historical Revisionism, i.e. "Edit"

Oh, I know. :-) I was encouraging him to use that feature. I wasn't planning on editing his comments for him, though.
And I planned to, but I have done so now to allay everyone's fears/concerns. ;)

[IAmBatman]

lol, hey, as the fake President and fake CEO of this fake company, I have certain fake duties to be aware of ... :-P

[A3n]

Mini card (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_Moloid_mini.jpg).
Comic card (http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_Moloid_comic.jpg).

Cheers

[Hahma]

Looks Great A3n :thumbsup:

[SirGalahad]

Should it be "19 or higher" for Subterranean Swarm?

[IAmBatman]

Should it be "19 or higher" for Subterranean Swarm?

Yes - great point! Hopefully A3n can help us out here. :-)

[A3n]

Should it be "19 or higher" for Subterranean Swarm?

Yes - great point! Hopefully A3n can help us out here. :-)

There are official precedents for writing it both ways, but being consistent with ourselves I believe we have always used the "or higher" language. Also we decided a long time ago to always include the "a" or "an" before the roll numbers.

So I have done the updates for all of the above.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Sweet. Good work, guys! :-)

[Hahma]

I propose Moloid be finalized as soon as the cards get put on first post.

[Griffin]

Cards up and Yea

[whitestuff]

Yea

[A3n]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Yea!

[NecroBlade]

Yea.

[Griffin]

Sir G is all we need.

[SirGalahad]

CAVE DWELLERS
While occupying a rock, dungeon or shadow space, a Moloid adds 1 die to its defense.

We did this to the others in this set.

yea with that

[A3n]

update made.

Cheers

[Griffin]

This passes

[Griffin]

We just need PDFs and a bio.

[A3n]

We just need PDFs and a bio.
PDFs should be in GO's inbox already :D.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Awesome, we are really kicking things out right now, so in that spirit, I am gonna go playtest some DO stuff right now. :D

[GreyOwl]

We just need PDFs and a bio.
PDFs should be in GO's inbox already :D.

Cheers

All done. :)

[IAmBatman]

Great work guys! :-) Can't wait to see the PDFs and bios! I'm glad to see us kicking it into high gear so well!

[A3n]

Mini PDF (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_Moloid_mini.pdf)
Comic PDF (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_Moloid_comic.pdf)

Cheers

[Griffin]

Thanks Gr3ny. PDFs up on the front page. :up:

[SirGalahad]

The Moloids turn could be a little long if they choose Doom as their One Ruler:

OM on Moloids
Turn with Doom
Mystic Power Drain turn with Doom
d20 for Moloids
Move and attack with 10 Moloids

Not complainin' - just sayin'

[Griffin]

The Moloids turn could be a little long if they choose Doom as their One Ruler:

OM on Moloids
Turn with Doom
Mystic Power Drain turn with Doom
d20 for Moloids
Move and attack with 10 Moloids

Not complainin' - just sayin'
Definitely. I mean you do have to hit that D20 just right on two different occasions, but yeah, it would be a big devastating turn with a very powerful figure and then a bunch of little annoyances.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - not tooo much worse than Thugs with Two-Face when Two-Face gets on a roll, though.

[Griffin]

PDFs are broken.

[A3n]

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Cheers

Got 'em.

[A3n]

Please remove the links from my quote in your post :).

Cheers

[SirGalahad]

Moloid standardized!

[IAmBatman]

You, sir, are on a roll! :-)

[Griffin]

Yes, Sir G is definitely on something (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0).

[IAmBatman]

It seems like the personality "Servile" here is very, very close to Toad's "Subservient" personality. Should we just go with "Subservient"?

[SirGalahad]

I'm OK with that.

[Hahma]

Sounds good. :D

[Griffin]

That is good with me.

[A3n]

Updated.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Cool. :-) Good work.

[Balantai]

Suggested change: (I'm going to need our English teacher, though. :D)

Character Bio - They have spent their entire existence underground living in a world that most of us did do not even know existedexists. This underworld is simply known as Subterranea and its people are called Moloids. They are actually an ancient race that has existed underground for centuries with tunnels that span the entire world. Though they keep to themselves in relative peace, they do not take kindly to any surface dweller who would dare to enter their domain.

I want to change up the first sentance because it makes it sound like the Moloids are no longer there since it's in the past tense. I tried to fix it up, but I'm going to need some help from Bats.

[IAmBatman]

I think we should go with "did" and "exists." Because if you're reading this, you now know that they exist. But you didn't before right now. :-)
Good changes, though! Update coming!

[tcglkn]

I hate to be a pain in the butt and make A3n make another update, but shouldn't the options for the Swarm power have bullets? I thought the rule was more than 2 choices needs bullets.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... I think you're right.

[A3n]

I hate to be a pain in the butt and make A3n make another update, but shouldn't the options for the Swarm power have bullets? I thought the rule was more than 2 choices needs bullets.
I am not aware of that rule's existence. I believe you use bullet points when there are options. These aren't options these are just different outcomes. I believe how we have done is how they have officially done it.


EDIT: Now that I re-read your statement, I would say your statement is probably correct but these aren't choices, they are more like consequences.

Cheers

[tcglkn]

http://battleplan.mythacle.com/heroscape/img/CyprienEsenwein-master.jpg

[GreyOwl]

The general rule I deduced when putting together the Customizing Compendium was that if there are 4 or more options (choices or consequences), there should be bullets. If there are 2 or less, there should not be. If there are 3, the official cards go either way.

[tcglkn]

Then we're good here. :thumbsup: I thought I remembered reading that if there were 3 or more options to put the bullets there.

[Balantai]

The general rule I deduced when putting together the Customizing Compendium was that if there are 4 or more options (choices or consequences), there should be bullets. If there are 2 or less, there should not be. If there are 3, the official cards go either way.

Then we're good here. :thumbsup: I thought I remembered reading that if there were 3 or more options to put the bullets there.
It might be nice to create a C3G standard, then. :D

[GreyOwl]

You know what? I remembered incorrectly. I just looked it up, and it actually says to use bullets whenever you have 3 or more options. Sorry for the confusion!

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'd thought Tickle was right on this one ... I'm pro-bullets here.

[tcglkn]

I knew your books better than you. :p

[SirGalahad]

He's busy designing.

[GreyOwl]

I think what happened is that there is one official card that has 3 options without bullets. But I kind of wrote that one off as an anomaly, or one that was done before they started using bullets.

[tcglkn]

I'm just teasing, I thought I was right, but didn't feel like rereading the Compendium right now to check.

[SirGalahad]

The Compendium is more of what you call guidelines than actual rules.

[IAmBatman]

He's busy designing.

That, sirs, is a burn. :-P

[SirGalahad]

I didn't say what you were designing.