The Book of Alfred Pennyworth

[whitestuff]

The Book of Alfred Pennyworth

C3G DC WAVE 3
SHADOW OF THE BAT

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Batman: Alpha set.
Its model number and name are #014 / Alfred.

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Origin set.
Its model number and name are #214 / Alfred Pennyworth.
_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - Alfred was a retired intelligence agent who followed the deathbed wish of his dying father, Jarvis, to carry on the tradition of serving the Wayne Family. To that end, Alfred introduced himself to Bruce Wayne (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596) and Dick Grayson (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37117) at Wayne Manor and insisted on becoming their butler. Although the pair did not want a butler, especially since they did not want to jeopardize their secret identities with a servant in the house, they did not have the heart to reject Alfred. That night, Alfred awoke to moaning and followed the sound to the secret door to the staircase leading to the Batcave and met his would be employers in their superhero identities (Wayne had been injured while out in the field). As it turned out, the wounds were actually insignificant, but Alfred's care convinced the residents that their butler could be trusted. Since then, Alfred included the support staff duties of the Dynamic Duo on top of his regular tasks.
_________________________________________________________________



-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received


Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
N/ASynergy Benefits Offered


Classic:
Alfred may heal a wounded Human Unique Hero adjacent to him with his Field Medic special power. Current Unique Human Heroes include: Agent Carr (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8276); Agent Skahen (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20771); Alastair MacDirk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8576); Ana Karithon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28052); Brave Arrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25122); Crixus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8602); Deadeye Dan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8106); Eldgrim the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8573); Evar Scarcarver (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33378); Finn the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8415); Guilty McCreech (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8111); Hatamoto Taro (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8403); Isamu (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9616); James Murphy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8689); Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8112); Kaemon Awa (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8402); Kato Katsuro (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19519); Kumiko (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25327); Marcus Decimus Gallus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8687); Master Win Chiu Woo (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10401); Mika Connour (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?&p=1149382); Moriko (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19545); Otonashi (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19544); Parmenio (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8589); Retiarius (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8603); Samuel Brown (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33704); Sgt. Drake Alexander (RotV) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8418); Sgt. Drake Alexander (SotM) (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=11081); Shiori (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=12188); Sir Denrick (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8577); Sir Dupuis (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19521); Sir Gilbert (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8578); Sir Hawthorne (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8579); Spartacus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8601); Tandros Kreel (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28051); Thorgrim the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8416); Valguard (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8588).Marvel:
Alfred may heal a wounded Human Unique Hero adjacent to him with his Field Medic special power. Current Unique Human Heroes include: Captain America (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9712), Doctor Doom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9713), Incredible Hulk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9718), Iron Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9715), Spider-Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9716).
Alfred may move a Vigilante or Sidekick figure with his Remote Field Extraction special power. Official Marvel Vigilantes include: Venom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9717)C3G:
Alfred may heal a wounded Human Unique Hero adjacent to him with his Field Medic special power. Current Unique Human Heroes include: Atom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35630); Bane (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38338); Baron Zemo (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41249); Batman (Bruce Wayne) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596); Batman (Bruce Wayne II) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39778); Batman (Terry McGinnis) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33040); Billy Batson (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35875); Black Adam (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1375933); Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312); Black Panther (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39972); Black Widow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35363); Bob, Agent of HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31303); Boomerang (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37581); Bucky (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35623); Buffy Summers (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=42189); Bullseye (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102437); Catwoman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28593); Captain America (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35281); Captain Boomerang (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37628); Captain Cold (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37086); Captain Marvel (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34981); Catwoman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28593); Chameleon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1408112); Chronos (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32196); Commissioner Gordon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32118); Deadshot (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39659); Doctor Doom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30561); Doctor Fate (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34734); Doctor Strange (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35263); Dum Dum Dugan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34752); Echo (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33610); Elektra (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32647); Firefly (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39999); Green Arrow (Connor Hawke) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33502); Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28592); Green Lantern (Guy Gardner) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1147514); Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29548); Green Lantern (John Stewart) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32101); Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1085018); Hawkeye (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37583); Heat Wave (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37599); Hugo Strange (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39219) Huntress (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29860); Hush (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35869); Iron Man (Hulkbuster) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37073); Iron Man (MKI) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33997); Iron Man (MKII) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36470); Iron Man (MKIII) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36743); Iron Man (MKIV) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36904); Iron Man (MKV) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37280); Iron Man (Stealth Suit) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37052); Joker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28606); Joker (II) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38384); Jonah Hex (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30986); Juggernaut (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36702); Kang (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1268559); Kingpin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33766); Kraven (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38263); Lady Shiva (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38983); Lex Luthor (Battle Suit) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1241310); Lex Luthor (Business Suit) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547); Mad Hatter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35532); Mad Thinker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37261); Madame HYDRA (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30847); Mandarin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34736); Merlyn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37919); Mirror Master (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37200); Mister Freeze (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38853); Mister Zsasz (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40164); Mockingbird (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38886); Mole Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30555); Mysterio (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37460); Nick Fury (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1353543); Penguin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30670); Pied Piper (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39114); Prowler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40483); Punisher (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1084689); Puppet Master (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30553); Ragdoll (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40224); Ra's al Ghul (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36101); Robin (Dick Grayson) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37117); Robin (Tim Drake) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1106410); Scarecrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1342225); Shadow Thief (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33464); Shang-Chi (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38778); Shocker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38269); Speedy (Mia Dearden) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34125); Speedy (Roy Harper) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38996); Spoiler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1608796); Steel (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37405); Talia al Ghul (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38046); The Hood (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38192); The Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29814); Trapster (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34242); Trickster (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38742); Two-Face (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586); Ubu (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39902); Ventriloquist (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35410); Vixen (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36194); Vulture (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37480); War Machine (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36875); Weather Wizard (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37934); Winter Soldier (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36990); Wizard (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39945); Yellow Lantern (Jonathan Crane) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41938).
Alfred may move a Vigilante or Sidekick figure with his Remote Field Extraction special power. Current Vigilantes and Sidekicks include: Azrael (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38465), Aqualad (Garth) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37464), Batman (Bruce Wayne) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596), Batman (Bruce Wayne II) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39778),Batman (Terry McGinnis) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33040), Black Canary (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28607), Daredevil (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30297), Echo (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33610), Huntress (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29860), Jubilee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37861), Kid Flash (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38887), Punisher (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1084689), Robin (Dick Grayson) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37117), Robin (Tim Drake) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1106410), Speedy (Mia Dearden) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34125), Speedy (Roy Harper) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38996), Wonder Girl (Donna Troy) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38852).
As a Human, Alfred Pennyworth allows adjacent friendly Civilians (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=967599) to roll an additional attack and defense die due to their Strength in Numbers special power.________________________________________________________________ _



-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
CharosInCharge Strategy Tips (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1306302&postcount=260)-Heroscapers Community Contributions-



Initial Playtest: whitestuff (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1090549&postcount=44)
Second Playtest: SirGalahad (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1102696&postcount=115)
Third Playtest: tcglkn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1102784&postcount=117)

[whitestuff]

History: Things not resolved in red

-Started thread
-GreyOwl wants all shotguns to work with the same mechanic (in terms of LOS)
-Batman wonder if Field Medic and Field Extraction shouldn't have slightly more specific titles, like Vigilante Field Medic and Vigilante Field Extraction due to the class specific additions. - Any thoughts?
-Griffin has a problem seeing Alfred's hidden Shotgun; thinks perhaps it should be removed - no-one else minds the sculpt not matching the ability so it's not changing, plus whitestuff posts some awesome Alfred action
-Range of 7 needs changing to 1
-Spidey suggests a double-barrel shotgun for a double attack; not met with much interest from others
-Hahma, along with everyone else, is shooting for a low cost hero, but Griffin wishes he could shoot an automatic shotgun...
-Tweaked the wordage of the medic ability
-Initial playtesting green lighted
-Griff suggested a quick rewording as to when the Medic ability happens.
-Initial playtesting to occur - finished.
-whitestuff was concerned after the one-on-one hero tests as the only figure Alfred was able to beat was Onatashi
-Others are not concerned as they believe that Alfred will see little action in a game. He is a support figure.
-Dropped the range restriction in Field Extraction
-Griff catches a missing qualifier for Field Extraction. You can now only extract figures you control.
-whitestuff's growing concerns lead to a failed test.
-Alfred has his healing ability changed so that it is more automated. He also is slashed in price.
-Bats comes over all English guy, tightening up wordage.
-Some concern over who would activate first if Ana was drafted into the same team as Alfred. Rolling a D20 was determined to be how to deal with such a situation.
-ERB response was that the theme of the Field Extraction was missing so the ability has been renamed Remote Field Extraction.
-Into playtesting
-playtesting finished... :)
-some concern over the low cost of 40 points
-extra testing by Hahma proves very little (other than he beats himself well ;))
-cost bumped to 60
-finalized and cards finished
-done and dusted

[GreyOwl]

I think whatever we decide for the Shotgun on Punisher should be consistent with what we do here (as far as the LOS requirement and affecting himself).

[whitestuff]

I think whatever we decide for the Shotgun on Punisher should be consistent with what we do here (as far as the LOS requirement and affecting himself).
I think that the Punisher is using an auto-shotgun so that can account for the differences in the attacks.

[GreyOwl]

But a shotgun either affects the shooter or not, regardless of whether it's automatic. And it either shoots around corners or not. :shrug:

[IAmBatman]

I think it should affect both of them. Part of the fun, in gameplay, of the shotgun is having to decide whether or not to hit adjacent foes with it knowing you could take out yourself.
I've got to ask, by the way, what accounts for his normal range of 7? That seems like a bit much for a Butler ...
I wonder if Field Medic and Field Extraction shouldn't have slightly more specific titles, like Vigilante Field Medic and Vigilante Field Extraction due to the class specific additions.
Really liking everything here, though. :-)

[Griffin]

I kinda have a problem visualizing a shot gun hidden under those coat tails.... I just don't think a Shotgun belongs on this card.

[IAmBatman]

Doesn't bother me - from Wiki - Alfred is quite a brilliant man. He primarily keeps up day-to-day operations of Batman’s home of Wayne Manor and maintains much of the equipment of the Batcave beneath it. A former actor, he can use his acting and disguise skills to help Batman in the field when necessary, and is even capable of impersonating Bruce Wayne on the telephone convincingly. He has also provided first aid up to and including suturing wounds and removing bullets, as well as occasional tactical support. With time, he has increased his surgical skills, and he's now able to perform arthroscopy and other advanced medical procedures, thus limiting, if not eliminating, the need for hospital medical treatment even in front of grievous injuries.

While not as skilled at hand to hand combat as Bruce Wayne, Alfred is still nearly as resourceful. During a time at which he was kidnapped, he readily escapes and overcomes his captors without disturbing the cut of his suit. It was later mentioned that he had been kidnapped unsuccessfully 27 times (it should be noted, however, that these events take place in the Gotham Adventures comics, based on the animated adventures of Batman, and not within the standard DCU continuity).[12] In the recent Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul story, Ubu, Ra's massively muscled bodyguard and henchman, attempts to use Alfred as a hostage, only to be disabled by a well timed sucker punch from Alfred.

Presumably due to his lack of superpowers, the advanced combat training Bruce's other associates have, and Alfred's age, Alfred is the only member of the "Batman Family" that Bruce does not mind using a firearm, in his case favoring a shotgun.

I think if Alfred is coming to a superhero brawl, he's bringing his sidearm.

[Griffin]

That doesn't explain where he is hiding that Shotgun under his tux though. I think this is a case of not having the right sculpt to reflect the desired theme.

[IAmBatman]

I'm willing to use my imagination in cases like this. :-) I don't think the sculpt always needs to 100% represent everything on the card, especially when there are limited options with sculpts.
I mean, with this sculpt, the extraction power doesn't really make sense either - he should be riding in a Batmobile or Batcopter for that one.
If anything, based on this sculpt, he should have a "dressing the Batman" power, but I don't think we want that. :-P
So, yeah, still in favor of the Shotgun.

[GreyOwl]

I don't mind the sculpt not matching the powers either. It's not like Spider-Man's sculpt has his webline or anything...

[Griffin]

I don't mind the sculpt not matching the powers either. It's not like Spider-Man's sculpt has his webline or anything...
But Spiderman has hands, and you know those hands shoot webbing. Bad comparison. :p

[GreyOwl]

Batman's Bat-grapple?

[Griffin]

Batman's Bat-grapple?
Not only could he hide that device in many places on his person (and he does in the comics), but he is actually holding it in his hand if you look closely.

[GreyOwl]

Didn't know that, since I don't use that particular mini.

But still, the sculpt not matching doesn't bother me.

[IAmBatman]

Doesn't bother me either.
Alfie is probably hanging in the Manor and it's right there on the wall. Not hard for him to pick it up.
That normal range of 7 still has me lost, though ... I don't see him having a rifle and a shotgun both ...

[whitestuff]

I agree, 7 is a bit much.

Matching abilities to sculpts makes little sense to me.

Renaming abilities can be done if that is what people think need doing.

And this is for Griff...
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/bg_02.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/bg_03-1.jpg
;)

[IAmBatman]

Heh, cool.
So how about a normal range of 1 for him, and then the shotgun representing his only ranged option?

[Griffin]

It is certainly easy to sell me on a shotgun when I can see it in his hand... ;)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Wow, I was just going to comment that he usually uses a Double-Barrel Shotgun and then you post a series of pics with him having only a single! :p But I still think he should have a Double Barrel Shotgun and be able to use it twice.

Only other comment other than that is about the Bio, LOL. That is the GA Alfred's bio, who was added to Batman in the late 40's for comedic relief. The current continuity is more like he was Wayne Family Butler before Thomas and Martha's death and became a father figure to Bruce after their death. In fact, after Bruce dies, a recorded message is found by Alfred on the computer that tells him that he (Alfred) was a father to him (Bruce) and that he loved him as such, even if he never was able to tell him.

[IAmBatman]

I'm good with the single barreled shotgun just on the basis that I don't think he's a figure that should really be a major offensive threat. :-)
We want to keep his cost on the real low side here (under 80, I think, for sure).

[Spidey'tilIDie]

But if his base stats are low (and they should be, he is most likely in his 60s!) then his SA will really be his only real way of dealing damage. So, I don't see a Double Barrel Shotgun SA as broken. I mean as a man in his 60s, even with Batman's training he should be no better than A-2, D-3 or vice versa.

[IAmBatman]

I'm not saying broken, I'm just saying a little much for the character, IMO.

[Griffin]

But if his base stats are low (and they should be, he is most likely in his 60s!) then his SA will really be his only real way of dealing damage. So, I don't see a Double Barrel Shotgun SA as broken. I mean as a man in his 60s, even with Batman's training he should be no better than A-2, D-3 or vice versa.
Do you need an offensive Alfred though? I mean Kelda isn't really an offensive unit... and though some people refuse to draft her, I do occasionally and it usually pays off. What I am trying to say here is that a single Shotgun attack is really all you need on the old man. Lets keep him sorta non-lethal, and just let his main purpose be that of a Healer/Assist unit with a very low point cost if possible. Personally, I would like to see his cost at around 60, but I don't see that happening with his card as is and a double attack Shotgun to boot.
FYI, double attack doesn't equal double barrel shotgun, any more than Special Attack equals Special Ed. :lol:

[Hahma]

Love the concept Whitestuff, seems thematic and pretty useful.

I like the single barrel shotgun. No need for double attack with it. The only reason that Punisher has 3 attacks with his is because it's an automatic weapon, like a machine gun (though not quite as fast). Hold the trigger, shotgun keeps a blasting and it holds a lot of ammo, not just 2 rounds in a double barrel shotgun.

I like the field extraction and the healing abilities, especially for vigilantes and sidekicks.

His cost should be kept relatively low.

If opponent's are concentrating on him, they aren't paying attention to the Vigilantes and Sidekicks in his army :D

Automatic Shotgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_shotgun)


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/us-marine-firing-aa-12-full-auto-sh.jpg

[Griffin]

Have any of you guys ever shot a fully automatic Shotgun? I haven't, but it looks like fun! :D

[whitestuff]

*Updated the history, reduced the range to 1, guessed a cost of about 70?

[Hahma]

Have any of you guys ever shot a fully automatic Shotgun? I haven't, but it looks like fun! :D

No, just regular pump action shotguns, I had one that I shot trap with and geese. Though, I've shot fully automatic assault rifles and a machine gun. It was fun. I've also shot a variety of pistols and regular rifles.

[whitestuff]

Have any of you guys ever shot a fully automatic Shotgun? I haven't, but it looks like fun! :D

No, just regular pump action shotguns, I had one that I shot trap with and geese. Though, I've shot fully automatic assault rifles and a machine gun. It was fun. I've also shot a variety of pistols and regular rifles.Note to self: Don't annoy Hahma too much...

;)

[Hahma]

Have any of you guys ever shot a fully automatic Shotgun? I haven't, but it looks like fun! :D

No, just regular pump action shotguns, I had one that I shot trap with and geese. Though, I've shot fully automatic assault rifles and a machine gun. It was fun. I've also shot a variety of pistols and regular rifles.Note to self: Don't annoy Hahma too much...

;)


No worries brother. :D

Though I forgot to mention that I've thrown grenades on a couple occasions, set up a claymore mine and was 4 time Expert (the highest rating) with the M16A2 Assault Rifle. One year I had the range high (out of 80 qualifiers) with a score of 242 out of 250. I had 7 of 10 bullseyes from the 500 yard line in the prone position, no scope. :johnwoo2:

Edit: At 200 yard line we did 10 rounds each in the standing and kneeling postion slow fire, the 5 rounds rapid fire from sitting position. From the 300 yard line we did 10 rounds slowfire from the sitting position and then 5 rounds rapid fire from the prone position. From the 500 yard line we fired 10 rounds from the prone position. 50 rounds for a total of 250 possible.

But that was 20 years ago. :D

[GreyOwl]

I got to shoot a fully automatic machine gun last year, but no shotgun. And it was fun!

[Hahma]

I got to shoot a fully automatic machine gun last year, but no shotgun. And it was fun!


They are fun. 8) Night time is cool with the tracer rounds making it look like your shooting a laser.

[IAmBatman]

I don't do guns. 8)
Whitestuff, it's looking good! Are we ready to move to an initial playtest here?

[Griffin]

I don't do guns. 8)
In Russia, guns do you.

[whitestuff]

Whitestuff, it's looking good! Are we ready to move to an initial playtest here?
If no one has any other comments/suggestions/complaints then it's a green light for initial playtesting.

[GreyOwl]

I got to shoot a fully automatic machine gun last year, but no shotgun. And it was fun!


They are fun. 8) Night time is cool with the tracer rounds making it look like your shooting a laser.

That sounds more fun than what we did! We were just at a shooting range.

[Griffin]

FIELD MEDIC
After moving and before attacking, choose a wounded Human Hero figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. Then roll the 20-sided die to add or remove Wound Markers from the chosen figure’s card:
• If you roll 1–4, add 1 Marker.
• If you roll 5–12, remove one 1 Marker.
• If you roll 13–19, remove up to 2 Markers.
• If you roll 20 or higher, remove all Markers.
If the Human Hero figure chosen is a Vigilante or Sidekick, add 2 to your roll.
Could we possibly change the first bullet to "add 1 marker"? With a 20% chance of failing this die roll and dealing 2 wounds to a vigilante that likely has a life of 4 and certainly has at least one wound on their card, I don't think I would ever use this risky power, and I may never even draft Alfred. Plus, thematically, if he is performing surgery, I see that there is a potential for him to cause some damage, but probably not half of a human life worth... he does have a lot of experience with this sort of thing by now.
The second bullet should be a numeric 1 and not the written "one".Other than that, I am good with the card. Though I hate that we are creating another useless normal attack...

[whitestuff]

FIELD MEDIC
After moving and before attacking, choose a wounded Human Hero figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. Then roll the 20-sided die to add or remove Wound Markers from the chosen figure’s card:
• If you roll 1–4, add 1 Marker.
• If you roll 5–12, remove one 1 Marker.
• If you roll 13–19, remove up to 2 Markers.
• If you roll 20 or higher, remove all Markers.
If the Human Hero figure chosen is a Vigilante or Sidekick, add 2 to your roll.
Could we possibly change the first bullet to "add 1 marker"? With a 20% chance of failing this die roll and dealing 2 wounds to a vigilante that likely has a life of 4 and certainly has at least one wound on their card, I don't think I would ever use this risky power, and I may never even draft Alfred. Plus, thematically, if he is performing surgery, I see that there is a potential for him to cause some damage, but probably not half of a human life worth... he does have a lot of experience with this sort of thing by now.
The second bullet should be a numeric 1 and not the written "one".Other than that, I am good with the card. Though I hate that we are creating another useless normal attack...
Can do.

[IAmBatman]

Works for me! :-)

[Griffin]

FIELD MEDIC
After moving and before attacking, choose a wounded Human Hero figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. Then roll the 20-sided die to add or remove Wound Markers from the chosen figure’s card:
• If you roll 1–4, add 1 Marker.
• If you roll 5–12, remove 1 Marker.
• If you roll 13–19, remove up to 2 Markers.
• If you roll 20 or higher, remove all Markers.
If the Human Hero figure chosen is a Vigilante or Sidekick, add 2 to your roll.

FIELD EXTRACTION
After moving and instead of attacking, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick within 6 clear sight spaces. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. If the chosen figure is Batman or Robin, you may immediately remove one Wound Marker from their card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.

You currently have a "After moving and Before attacking" and a "After moving and instead of attacking" powers. Just to help avoid FAQs for this seemingly overlap of powers (though it really isn't), might I suggest this change modeled after Sonlen?

FIELD EXTRACTION
After moving and instead of attacking Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick within 6 clear sight spaces. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. If the chosen figure is Batman or Robin, you may immediately remove one Wound Marker from their card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.

FIELD MEDIC
After moving and before attacking, choose a wounded Human Hero figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. Then roll the 20-sided die to add or remove Wound Markers from the chosen figure’s card:
• If you roll 1–4, add 1 Marker.
• If you roll 5–12, remove 1 Marker.
• If you roll 13–19, remove up to 2 Markers.
• If you roll 20 or higher, remove all Markers.
If the Human Hero figure chosen is a Vigilante or Sidekick, add 2 to your roll.

That doesn't change anything other allow Alfred to attack on the turn that he uses Field Extraction. But why not let him, especially for the cause of clarity?

Also, though I do like this card quite a bit, and plan on drafting him, will all this text fit on the card, or should we consider condensing Field Medic and dropping some bullets?

[IAmBatman]

I like the before moving change. Good stuff. :-)

[Griffin]

Whitey, if you would update the front page with my suggestion, I would be happy to run the initial playtest for you if you can't. But I would also be happy if you wanted to do the playtest yourself. :D With Bats not being able to playtest for a couple of months, me and Hahma are gonna need some help I think.

[whitestuff]

Whitey, if you would update the front page with my suggestion, I would be happy to run the initial playtest for you if you can't. But I would also be happy if you wanted to do the playtest yourself. :D With Bats not being able to playtest for a couple of months, me and Hahma are gonna need some help I think.Front page updated. I'll take care of the initial playtest tonight (once my kiddies are tucked into bed).

Sorry for being a bit absent but work has been a pain... :|

[whitestuff]

Initial Playtesting


NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Alfred Pennyworth @ 70 points

C3G CHECK LIST FEEDBACK FORM
- Theme/ Does it pass, if not, list your Theme Check observations. Pass
- Mirror/ Does it pass, if not, list your Mirror Check observations. Pass
- Bonding/ Does it pass, if not, list your Bonding Check observations. Pass
- Synergy/ Does it pass, if not, list your Synergy Check observations. Pass
- Power/ Does it pass, if not, list your Power Check observations. Pass

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
(Be sure to list what official units you used and what BoV map you used per section below.)
-
Heavy Hitter/ Does it pass? No - Alfred is made of tissue paper. Perhaps he needs a drop in points... or a serious bump in defense...

All tests done on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map.

GAME ONE
Alfred Pennyworth (70) vs Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan (65)
Round One
Alfred Pennyworth moves
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan moves
Alfred Pennyworth moves
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan moves; normal attack (plus height) :skull::skull: vs 0 defense
Alfred Pennyworth(-2) normal attack (plus height) :skull: vs 0 defense
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan(-1) Shotgun Blast Special Attack :skull::skull::skull: vs:shield:
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan wins Order Marker 3, Round 1, with 4 life left.
--------------------------------------------
GAME TWO
Alfred Pennyworth (70) vs Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan (65)
Round One
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan moves
Alfred Pennyworth moves
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan moves; normal attack :skull: vs 0 defense
Alfred Pennyworth-1 moves; normal attack (plus height) :skull::skull: vs 0 defense
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan -2 moves; normal attack (plus height) :skull::skull: vs 0 defense
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan wins Order Marker 3, Round 1, with 3 life left.
---------------------------------------------
GAME THREE
Alfred Pennyworth (70) vs Deadeye Dan (60)
Round One
Alfred Pennyworth moves
Deadeye Dan moves; normal attack :skull: vs 0 defense
Alfred Pennyworth-1 moves
Deadeye Dan; Ullar Enhanced Rifle Special Attack :skull:
Alfred Pennyworth-2 moves; normal attack (plus height) :skull::skull: vs 0 defense
Deadeye Dan-2; Ullar Enhanced Rifle Special Attack :skull:
Deadeye Dan wins on Order Marker 3, Round 1, with 1 life left
-----------------------------------------------
GAME FOUR
Alfred Pennyworth (70) vs Deadeye Dan (60)
Round One
Alfred Pennyworth moves *hides behind the big tree*
Deadeye Dan moves
Alfred Pennyworth moves *hides behind the small ruin*
Deadeye Dan moves
Alfred Pennyworth moves; Shotgun Blast Special Attack :skull: vs :shield::shield:
Deadeye Dan moves; normal attack (plus height) :skull: vs :shield:

Round Two
Alfred Pennyworth; Shotgun Blast Special Attack :skull::skull: vs :shield:
Deadeye Dan-1; Sharpshooter d19 :passout:
Deadeye Dan wins on Order Marker 1, Round Two, with 2 life left.
-----------------------------------------------
GAME FIVE
Alfred Pennyworth (70) vs Marcu Esenwein (20)
Round One
Alfred Pennyworth moves
Marcu Esenwein moves
Alfred Pennyworth moves; Shotgun Blast Special Attack :skull::skull: vs 0 defense
Marcu Esenwein moves :skull::skull::skull: vs :shield:
Alfred Pennyworth-2; Shotgun Blast Special Attack :skull::skull: vs 0 defense
Marcu Esenwein-4 :skull::skull: vs :shield:
Marcu Esenwein wins on Order Marker 3, Round 1, with 2 life left
------------------------------------------------
GAME SIX
Alfred Pennyworth (70) vs Otonashi (10)
Round One
Alfred Pennyworth moves
Otonashi moves
Alfred Pennyworth moves
Otonashi moves
Alfred Pennyworth moves; Shotgun Blast Special Attack :skull: vs :shield::shield:
Otonashi moves; misses her attack

Round Two
Otonashi :skull: vs 0 defense
Alfred Pennyworth; Shotgun Blast Special Attack :skull::skull: vs :shield:
Alfred Pennyworth win on Order Marker 1, Round 2, with 2 life left
--------------------------------------------------

Alfred is so very delicate. Perhaps too delicate. Is anyone else concerned with these one-on-one tests? Anyone near his points is just going to trounce him. I had to play against a 10 point hero just for him to get a win... I might hold off on the squad tests until others either agree that something is amiss or calm my doubts and reassure me that his high points come from his other abilities... (which I'm worried about as you'd have trouble keeping Alfred alive long enough to get up to the front line where he needs to be...)



Squad/ Does it pass? No point. IMHO any 70 point squad will eat Alfred for breakfast.



Army Test 1/ Does it pass? No.

Alfred, Batman, Huntress, Black Canary, Venom - 780
Iron Man, Hulk, Red Skull - 800

Round One
Black Canary moves
Red Skull gives an order to hulk who leaps behind a tree
Batman moves; uses Batarang special attack; :skull::skull: vs :shield: (Hulk-1)
Red Skull gives an order to Ironman who moves behind a tree as well
Batman moves towards a more defensive position
Red Skull gives an order to Hulk who leaps into the middle Venom, Alfred and Huntress; he attacks :skull::skull: spidey-sense 7 :shield: (Venom-1)

I just realized that Alfred can't heal Venom because he isn't human!! Yay me... :roll:

Round Two
Venom moves to get height; :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: vs :shield::shield: (Hulk-5)
Red Skull gives an order to hulk; :skull::skull::skull::skull: spidey-sense 4 :shield::shield:
Huntress attacks; :skull::skull: vs :shield::shield::shield::shield: (Venom-3)
Red Skull gives an order to Hulk; :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: spidey-sense 12 (oh, bugger...) :shield: -- Venom dead
Huntress moves to get height (trying to get defensive bonus); :skull::skull::skull::skull: vs :shield::shield: (Hulk-7)
Red Skull gives an order to Hulk;:skull::skull::skull::skull: and hoping to finish of the old green beast with some Ruthless Counter-striking, Huntress rolls all skull and dies. :shock:

Round Three
Alfred panics and uses Field Extraction to move Batman next to the Hulk; Alfred takes a disengage wound (Alfred-1) and fires his shotgun wildly; :skull: Batman>:shield::shield: & Hulk>:shield::shield::shield:
Red Skull gives an order to hulk; :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: evasive strike :pray:... 5 :evil: :shield: Batman is dead.
With Bats dead there is no 2
Red Skull gives an order to Hulk who moves; :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: vs :shield::shield: (Black Canary-3) With Bats dead there is no 3
Red Skull gives an order to Hulk; :skull::skull::skull::skull: vs :shield::shield::shield: Black Canary dies.

Round Four
Alfred sees the impossible before him; aims his shotgun; :skull: vs :shield:
Red Skull gives an order to Hulk who finishes things with; :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: Alfred is dead.

After this test I ran another with the same teams...
In the second test I used Red Skull to lead with Ironman. While Huntress added a quick wound early, it was all Ironman. He all but killed Huntress, then all but killed Batman (who in the nick of time was saved and healed back to full health (18) by Alfred), Ironman then killed Huntress, a fresh Batman, a full health Black Canary and put 3 wounds on Venom. Ironman was unstoppable. After Ironman finally died, over jumped the Hulk who mopped up the rest.

[A3n]

Were you expecting him to hold his own in a one-on-one with the same point value? I wasn't, I thought of him more as a support character that had to just stand in the shadows healing & only occasionally firing off his shotgun. As a healer his only benefit is in team play. I made my Raven as a healer & it's always a big decision whether the heal is worth the OM or to fight. That's why I liked the heal on Ana Karithon. Maybe if when you try him in a team game & he is still struggling to live up to his points you might try something like that. Healing on other figures OM's.

Cheers

[Hahma]

His true value is in team play. His shotgun is there for some form of threat, but he's mostly there as a support figure for teammates, especially vigilante's and sidekicks and even more particularly for Batman and Robin.

Burning OM's to heal is also situational and may not always be the best option at a particular point in the game. You almost should have to plan on it a round a head of time and place OM's accordingly to cover a unit's retreat with another unit/s, get the wounded unit to Alfred, the OM3 on Alfred to heal the unit. Now that's all theoryscape, but like I said, it's a situational use of an OM and a lot depends on the opponent's forces, OM use and how the game is going.

[IAmBatman]

I agree with the guys above - his team play is going to be his real test, not his one on one.
However, I could see both of the following as perfectly legitimate options:

1) significantly lowering his price if his support contribution is too easily nullified by his frailty

or

2) bump his life to 4 to give him a bit more staying power.

However, overall, I'm very happy with him being not a brusier one-on-one, but more of a support oriented figure that's not too tough to take out.

[Griffin]

What the boys above said. If I had a choice between Bats' options, I would go with 1) dropping the cost. We need to start creating some filler units IMO, and Alfred is a great starting point.

I do think that perhaps we could remove the 6 clear sight spaces aspect of Field Extraction. That would reduce the need to continue to burn orders on Alfred and put him in harms way.

[IAmBatman]

As a once per game power, I'd be fine with Alfred doing Field Extraction from anywhere on the battlefield without LOS restrictions. He's got bat computers, bat vehicles, etc.
Also, I just don't think the ability is so powerful that it needs a bunch of restrictions.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I agree with Bats and Griff here.

[A3n]

I do think that perhaps we could remove the 6 clear sight spaces aspect of Field Extraction. That would reduce the need to continue to burn orders on Alfred and put him in harms way.
That sound's like a plan. :thumbsup:

[IAmBatman]

OK ... so we're waiting for the rest of the initial playtest here and then we should be ready for the ERB phase soon, correct?

[whitestuff]

OK ... so we're waiting for the rest of the initial playtest here and then we should be ready for the ERB phase soon, correct?I'll get rid of the 6 space restriction and try to get the army playtest done asap.

[IAmBatman]

*salutes*

[Griffin]

I just noticed this, but I think we definitely need this little addition:

FIELD EXTRACTION
Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick you control. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. If the chosen figure is Batman or Robin, you may immediately remove one Wound Marker from their card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.

[whitestuff]

I just noticed this, but I think we definitely need this little addition:

FIELD EXTRACTION
Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick you control. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. If the chosen figure is Batman or Robin, you may immediately remove one Wound Marker from their card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.
Good catch. I'm hoping to free up a little time tonight to finish the army tests... RealLife is annoyingly busy at the moment... If only I could find a way to make as much money as I am without having to go to work, I'd be set.

[IAmBatman]

I'd love that as well! :-D
I've got two weeks here in New York, but I've got to finish moving my apartment over to my fiancee's, pack for the wedding, and keep working as per usual at my jobs. If there's still any initial playtesting left in a few days, though, I'll try to try my hand at some.

[whitestuff]

I've updated the initial playtest... here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1090549&postcount=44)

I give Alfred a resounding fail - for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, in two games he healed one figure once. It just isn't a good idea to give him Order Markers.
Secondly, he is far too expensive at 70 points.

So what is to be done?

Dropping his points seems obvious but how far? I'm not sure... 30? 40?
As for the healing, I think Ana Karithon's Healing Word might be a better way to do it...

[IAmBatman]

I say try 40 points and a revamped healing power ...

[Griffin]

I am with the Bat. :up:

[whitestuff]

Reboot...
______________________________________________________
ALFRED PENNYWORTH

HUMAN - UNIQUE HERO
BUTLER - LOYAL
MED 5

LIFE: 3
MOVE: 5
RANGE: 1
ATTACK: 2
DEFENSE: 3


SHOTGUN BLAST SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 3.
Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by the Shotgun Blast Special Attack. Alfred Pennyworth only needs a clear sight shot at the chosen figure. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Alfred Pennyworth cannot be affected by his own Shotgun Blast Special Attack.

FIELD EXTRACTION
Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick that you control. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. If the chosen figure is Batman or Robin, you may immediately remove one Wound Marker from their card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.

FIELD MEDIC
After revealing an Order Marker on a wounded Human Unique Hero figure you control that is adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth, and before using any other special powers on any Army Card or Glyph, you may first roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, remove up to 2 Wound Markers from that Hero’s Army Card.
If the Human Unique Hero figure chosen is a Vigilante or Sidekick, add 2 to your roll.

COST - 40 points
__________________________________________________
Any thoughts?

[Hahma]

That looks pretty good Whitestuff. 8)

And being able to Extract a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick once per game could be huge. If said Vigilante or Sidekick has OM next turn, they have chance to get rid of more wounds. I like that Field Medic works on Humans to prevent some weird healing situations.

I like that he's only 40 points too.

[IAmBatman]

Looks good! :-)
In the third sentence of Field Extraction, it should be "its" instead of "their" to avoid a pronoun/antecedent disagreement.
I also think you could rewrite the last line of Field Medic to say:

If the chosen figure is a Vigilante or Sidekick, add 2 to your roll.

[whitestuff]

So, like this...

FIELD EXTRACTION
Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick that you control. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth. If the chosen figure is Batman or Robin, you may immediately remove one Wound Marker from it's card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.

FIELD MEDIC
After revealing an Order Marker on a wounded Human Unique Hero figure you control that is adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth, and before using any other special powers on any Army Card or Glyph, you may first roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, remove up to 2 Wound Markers from that Hero’s Army Card.
If the chosen figure is a Vigilante or Sidekick, add 2 to your roll.

Front page updated.

[Griffin]

FIELD MEDIC should not have a paragraph spacing at the end. Other than that, it looks good to me.

[Hahma]

I agree with Griffin and I think that the cost on the first post needs to be changed from 70 to 40 and he should be ready for ERB.

[whitestuff]

FIELD MEDIC should not have a paragraph spacing at the end. Other than that, it looks good to me.

I agree with Griffin and I think that the cost on the first post needs to be changed from 70 to 40 and he should be ready for ERB.
Done and done.

Will the army test need redoing?

[Hahma]

I don't think you need another playtest for Alfred before proposing him to ERB phase. Based on your initial playtest, changes were made and that's what the first playtest is there for, to actually get a feel for how the unit does and whether or not it needs tweaking. Sometimes followup initial playtests are required if it's a more complicated or expensive figure, but I think that this Alfred at 40 points +/- should be pretty ready for next phase.

I'll give an early YEA for moving to ERB phase if you propose it Whitestuff.

[IAmBatman]

Preemptive yea as well. :-D

[GreyOwl]

Yea!

[A3n]

When there is a proposal click here...
Yea
;)

[Griffin]

When there is a proposal click here...
Yea
;)
:word:

[IAmBatman]

Actually, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring this up ... could we change Field Extraction to this?

FIELD EXTRACTION
Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick that you control. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth and immediately remove one Wound Marker from its card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.

One small grammar correction there, but mostly I'd be taking out the character specific synergy (something I've spoken out against in the past) and widened it to any human vigilante or sidekick gets the auto healing.
I think the power would be far from too powerful since it's a once per game thing and still has the human vigilante or sidekick restriction.
I think it'd also help Alfred make it into more army builds, which I like, especially since he'll be one of very few filler level units we probably produce.

[whitestuff]

Actually, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring this up ... could we change Field Extraction to this?

FIELD EXTRACTION
Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick that you control. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth and immediately remove one Wound Marker from its card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.

One small grammar correction there, but mostly I'd be taking out the character specific synergy (something I've spoken out against in the past) and widened it to any human vigilante or sidekick gets the auto healing.
I think the power would be far from too powerful since it's a once per game thing and still has the human vigilante or sidekick restriction.
I think it'd also help Alfred make it into more army builds, which I like, especially since he'll be one of very few filler level units we probably produce.
I wondered how long that character specific line would last... :D

I have no problem with changing that.

With that change in mind, I propose that Alfred be passed on to the ERB lads for a look-see.

BTW, do I just pick two of them at random? I know someone said to just send card info to the next two on the list, but how do I know who the next two are?

[Griffin]

Honestly, how about Field Extraction working on any figure you control, but only remove a wound marker if that figure is a Vigilante or Sidekick? That would make it as useful as the Medic power in any army build, but give it a bit of an oomph when working with Vigilantes and Sidekicks. I would really like to see that. And I agree that we should avoid mentioning specific characters, he has worked with plenty of people other than Batman and Robin. Anyone ever read the Outsiders?

Also, and I just noticed this, but with the Medic power, what if you also controlled Ana Karathon, which power would be used first? Or is this a situation where the rule book says to roll a D20 to decide?

[whitestuff]

Honestly, how about Field Extraction working on any figure you control, but only remove a wound marker if that figure is a Vigilante or Sidekick? That would make it as useful as the Medic power in any army build, but give it a bit of an oomph when working with Vigilantes and Sidekicks. I would really like to see that. And I agree that we should avoid mentioning specific characters, he has worked with plenty of people other than Batman and Robin. Anyone ever read the Outsiders?
I have no problem with this, but I'll wait to see if others agree before changing anything...
Also, and I just noticed this, but with the Medic power, what if you also controlled Ana Karathon, which power would be used first? Or is this a situation where the rule book says to roll a D20 to decide?Interesting question... Would it matter if both character's abilities do the same thing?

________________

*EDIT*
Bats, you are the resident grammar guy...
FIELD EXTRACTION
Before moving, choose a wounded Vigilante or Sidekick that you control. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Alfred Pennyworth and immediately remove one Wound Marker from its card. Figures moved by Field Extraction do not take any leaving engagement attacks. Alfred Pennyworth may only use Field Extraction once per game.Should that its have an apostrophe? Isn't it a possessive pronoun?

[Hahma]

I'm fine with the proposed changes, and if Ana's in your army and is adjacent to the same figure as Alfred, I guess roll the d20 to see who goes first, though it doesn't really matter.

[IAmBatman]

it's = it is
its = belonging to it

/grammar lesson :-D

[whitestuff]

it's = it is
its = belonging to it

/grammar lesson :-D
I knew you were the man who would know.

Grammar-nerd :p

[IAmBatman]

Darn right. :-D

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... this has passed into the ERB phase on the power of Whitestuff's vote and 48 hours. :-) For the record, I meant to give this a yea, but I got distracted by the grammar question and then life in general!

[IAmBatman]

I believe Aldin and Matt Helm, for Arkillo, were the last to do ERBs, so take the next two on the list after them. :-)

[Hahma]

Hmm ... this has passed into the ERB phase on the power of Whitestuff's vote and 48 hours. :-) For the record, I meant to give this a yea, but I got distracted by the grammar question and then life in general!


I think several of us already gave the preemtive Yea and then there were some minor tweaks that wouldn't stop the Yeas IMO, so it's good to go.

[IAmBatman]

Oh yeah, forgot about that too! :-) My birthday really got me out of the loop.
Anyway, this was sorely in need of bumping after all the Fan Four threads got started.
Also, the Allies are clamoring for more work, which means we need to get this to the ERB ASAP. :-D

[Hahma]

Yeah, those guys are like ravenous dogs fighting over a bone. We have to keep them fed or things can get ugly :)

[IAmBatman]

Who ever thought we'd have this much playtesting help back in the World's Finest days?? I'm really loving where this group is at. :-)

[Griffin]

Seriously. I think the allure of earning the right to design by obtaining points, the investment in the group by being "members", and the secrecy of our designs is an excellent recipe for productivity among our non-Hero members.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Seriously. I think the allure of earning the right to design by obtaining points, the investment in the group by being "members", and the secrecy of our designs is an excellent recipe for productivity among our non-Hero members.Totally agree. Though occassionally, I find myself wanting to post that I know what he is talking about when Bats gives them hints, but so far I have resisted the urge.

[whitestuff]

I believe Aldin and Matt Helm, for Arkillo, were the last to do ERBs, so take the next two on the list after them. :-)
I've been looking but I'll be buggered if I can find Griff's post where he lists the people in the ERB.

Anyone know the linkage for that?

[Griffin]

I believe Aldin and Matt Helm, for Arkillo, were the last to do ERBs, so take the next two on the list after them. :-)
I've been looking but I'll be buggered if I can find Griff's post where he lists the people in the ERB.

Anyone know the linkage for that?
Anytime you are looking for something and you don't know where it is, always go the stickied Public C3G Directory Thread. What you seek will be found at the top of the first post in that thread. :D

[whitestuff]

I believe Aldin and Matt Helm, for Arkillo, were the last to do ERBs, so take the next two on the list after them. :-)
I've been looking but I'll be buggered if I can find Griff's post where he lists the people in the ERB.

Anyone know the linkage for that?
Anytime you are looking for something and you don't know where it is, always go the stickied Public C3G Directory Thread. What you seek will be found at the top of the first post in that thread. :D
That's what I was looking for. Thanks. I'll get the PM ready to send now...and it's away!

[whitestuff]

Well that was quick...
Sherman has responded already.

- I like the power names as is.

- Can't say that I'm a fan of Field Extraction as written. Instantly teleporting figures to Alfred's side, even if it's only once per game, fails the theme test for me. (And no, this isn't badgermaniac replying, it's me - Sherman Davies. ) If it were up to me, I'd drop the power entirely and have Alfred's role be limited to healing figures the way Ana Karithon does. True, this will mean that heroes will have to stay near Alfred or run back to his place in the start zone to benefit from the healing, but that seems thematic to me anyway.

[IAmBatman]

I totally get the theme of field extraction! How many times has Alfred remotely sent a Bat-vehicle for the bloody, wounded Batman to get him out of the fray? :-)

[Griffin]

I totally get the theme of field extraction! How many times has Alfred remotely sent a Bat-vehicle for the bloody, wounded Batman to get him out of the fray? :-)I do too, but perhaps Sherman has a point. I think that power needs a new name to better help sell the theme of it.

[IAmBatman]

Do you have any ideas? I got the theme from the current name, so it's hard of me to think anything ... Remote Bat Vehicle Rescue??

[Griffin]

I don't know, that is usually your strong area.

Rescue Mission
Vehicular Extraction
Batmobile Transport
Emergency Chauffeur

:reapershrug:

[IAmBatman]

I don't know, that is usually your strong area.

Rescue Mission - Doesn't work any better than Field Extraction
Vehicular Extraction - It's possible - I think we need to work the word "remote" in there somewhere.
Batmobile Transport - Same as above - but does it have to just be the Batmobile anyway? It could be a number of Bat Vehicles.
Emergency Chauffeur - I think this is worse, because it definitely implies he's right there in the mix of thing when he pulls you out. It also leaves you asking where's the car??.

:reapershrug:

REMOTE RESCUE VEHICLE is my best thought so far ...

[whitestuff]

How long do we have to wait to hear back from the ERB guys?

Remote Rescue Vehicle is the best of the bunch, but again, I'd think, "Where's the car?"

[Griffin]

How long do we have to wait to hear back from the ERB guys?

Remote Rescue Vehicle is the best of the bunch, but again, I'd think, "Where's the car?"
The ERB are allowed 48 hours and then we move on.

Well maybe we should just stick with Field Extraction.

[IAmBatman]

What about Remote Field Extraction?

[IAmBatman]

How long do we have to wait to hear back from the ERB guys?

Remote Rescue Vehicle is the best of the bunch, but again, I'd think, "Where's the car?"
The ERB are allowed 48 hours and then we move on.

Well maybe we should just stick with Field Extraction.

It's been 48 hours. Who didn't respond? :-P

[Griffin]

What about Remote Field Extraction?
I like it. :D

~ Griffin, who is feeling... compliant

[Hahma]

What about Remote Field Extraction?

Sounds better and at least the theme part of it can be seen in the name of the power. To make him strictly like Ana wouldn't be thematic to me since he's not out swinging around the city with Bats.

[IAmBatman]

I think this one is ready for Playtesting. :-) Preemptive yea vote.

[Hahma]

Here's another preemptive yea vote for playtesting

[whitestuff]

Ok, I'll change the name and call for a vote.

I propose that Alfred is ready for playtesting.

Yea

[A3n]

Yea

[Griffin]

Yea, for the fifth vote of majority approval. :D

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

six down, two to go ... or about 7 hours. :-)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I want to say Nay just to be different, but I can't; Alfred is just too good. So, YEA.

[IAmBatman]

All right - this one passes into playtesting! I'll let Whitestuff have the honor of posting its availability in the playtesting sign up thread. :-)

[whitestuff]

All right - this one passes into playtesting! I'll let Whitestuff have the honor of posting its availability in the playtesting sign up thread. :-)
Cool. I'll go do that now.

[IAmBatman]

You da man. :-)

[whitestuff]

SirG is done...

CHECK LIST FOR Alfred Pennyworth

- THEME TEST – PASS
- MIRROR TEST – PASS
- BONDING TEST – PASS
- SYNERGIES TEST – PASS, Vigilantes and Sidekicks (assuming these are in the works)
- POWER CHECK – PASS
- FUN TEST – PASS
- COMPETITIVE TEST – PASS
- DRAFTING TEST – PASS, with Vigilantes or Sidekicks
- USAGE TEST – PASS
- STRATEGY TEST – PASS, OM placement is critical

PLAY TEST LIST FOR FIGURE UNITS - All tests on Grundy’s Grave

- HEAVY HITTER TEST – PASS
Test 1: Theracus
Theracus wins on Turn 1 of Round 2 with 1 wound.
Test 2: Sonya Esenwein
Sonya wins on Turn 3 of Round 2 with 0 wounds.
Test 3: Eldgrim
Alfred wins on Turn 5 of Round 1 with 0 wounds.
Test 4: Swog Rider x2
Alfred wins on Turn 5 of Round 2 with 2 wounds.
Test 5: Guilty McCreech
Alfred wins on Turn 6 of Round 1 with 0 wounds.
Test 6: Marcu Esenwein, Otonashi, and Isamu
Isamu remains standing on Turn 3 of Round 5.

- SQUAD TEST – PASS
Test 1: Blade Gruts
Blade Gruts win on Turn 5 of Round 2 with 2 figures remaining.
Test 2: Ashigaru Yari
Ashigaru Yari win on Turn 2 of Round 2 with 2 figures remaining.
Test 3: Deathreavers
Alfred on height taking potshots at rats—very fun. Alfred wins on Turn 6 of Round 3 with 1 wound.

- ARMY TEST
Test 1
Team 1: Alfred (40), Batman (200), Huntress (170), Beast (170) = 580
Team 2: Captain America (220), Joker (190), Mystique (165) = 575

Round 1: Initiative Team Cap. Joker moves 2 OMs from Huntress to Alfred. Mystique out. OM1 on Alfred. Cap moves adjacent to Mystique. Beast moves out. Mystique misses Beast. Beast engages Mystique – ES = 8 – and hits her for 1 wound (1).
Round 2: Initiative Team Cap. Joker moves 2 OMs from Beast to Alfred. Mystique disengages, returning adjacent to Cap and shoots Beast for 2 wounds (2). Huntress out, but has no shot. Mystique fires again but misses. OM2 on Alfred, who stays safely at the back. Cap moves forward, misses Beast, but puts a wound on Huntress (1). Huntress gets her +2 dice against Cap and puts them to good use, hitting the Super Soldier for 2 total wounds (2).
Round 3: Initiative Team Alfred. Huntress only manages 1 more wound against Cap (3). Mystique moves adjacent to Cap and shoots Huntress for another wound (2). OM2 on Alfred, who extracts Huntress back to the start zone and partially heals her (1). Mystique shoots Beast for another wound (3). Beast engages Mystique and hits her for another wound, even with Cap’s boost (2). Mystique disengages and aims for Batman, as she realizes she’s the only one who can stay out of his Evasive Strike range, hitting him for 1 wound (1).
Round 4: Initiative Team Cap. Joker moves 2 OMs from Huntress to Alfred. Mystique shoots again at the Bat, but misses. Bat can only get in Batarang range of her, but still manages to nick her for another wound (3). The shapeshifter again moves out of ES range and hits for 2 more on the Bat (3). OM2 on Alfred, who can’t get adjacent to Mr. Wayne. Cap puts Beast down. Batman, smarting mightily, retreats adjacent to Alfred.
Round 5: Initiative Team Cap. Joker moves 2 of 3 OMs from Batman to Alfred. Mystique shoots at Batman, looking to finish him off, but misses. OM1 still on Batman; Field Medic = 3; but a Batarang puts down the blue beauty as she whiffs on defense. Second ‘rang puts Cap at critical life (4). OM2 was on Mystique. Alfred has had enough and takes a shotgun blast at Cap, but misses. Even at critical life, Cap knows Joker won’t be able to take all three of them down, so engages Batman (ES = 3) and puts down the Caped Crusader. Huntress can only barely get within range with her crossbow, but it’s enough, as the Super Soldier whiffs on defense against her 3 skulls.
Round 6: Initiative Team Alfred. Huntress moves. Joker, suffering from “It’s Just Not the Same,” scrambles for height. Huntress moves again but misses. Joker runs down the hill to engage her, hoping her losing the defense die will be enough, but she rolls 1 shield and 3 skulls, hitting her for 1 wound (2) and himself for 3 wounds due to Ruthless Counterstrike (3). Huntress hits back for a wound of her own (4). Joker has no choice but to try again, and Huntress’ Ruthless Counterstrike does him in.

Team Alfred wins on Turn 6 of Round 6 with Alfred at full life and Huntress with 2 wounds.

Test 2

Team 1: Alfred (40), Batman (200), Huntress (170), Deadpool (285) = 695
Team 2: Jean Grey (180), Cyclops (190), Mystique (165), Blob (165) = 700

Round 1: Initiative Team Jean. Cyclops moves Blob out with Field Commander and lets Jean take a turn with Telepathic Rapport. Jean moves Blob out another 4 spaces with Telekinesis (quite a little set of synergies there). Deadpool shoots twice at Blob, who whiffs the first for 2 wounds (2), but blocks the second. Cyclops again moves Blob; Jean tries to throw him but fails; attacks Deadpool and hits for 1 wound (1). Huntress shoots at Jean and misses. Mystique shoots at Deadpool and misses. Deadpool shoots at Jean and misses, but heals himself (0).
Round 2: Initiative Team Jean. Cyclops moves himself and rolls 5 skulls with Optic Blast against Deadpool, who whiffs on 6 dice and promptly is destroyed. OUCH! OM1 was on Deadpool. Mystique shoots at Batman and hits for 1 wound (1). Huntress shoots at Jean and hits for 1 wound (1). Cyclops moves Blob; Jean can’t throw him again, but hits Huntress for 1 wound (1). OM3 was on Deadpool.
Round 3: Initiative Team Alfred. Huntress shoots at Jean and hits for another wound (2). Cyclops moves into position to Optic Blast only Huntress, but misses. Huntress rolls 4 skulls against Jean, only to see her block all 4! Cyclops blasts at Huntress again, putting her at critical life (3). Alfred uses Remote Field Extraction to save her pretty Vigilante keister (2). Mystique shoots at Bats, who whiffs on defense and follows Deadpool off the battlefield.
Round 4: Initiative Team Alfred. Huntress back to full-life with Alfred’s Field Medic roll of 14+2 = 16. With so many targets, she chooses Cyclops, but misses. Cyclops moves Blob; Jean throws Blob adjacent to Huntress, who is now Stuck. Jean shoots at Huntress, hitting her for 1 wound (1). Huntress can only attack Blob – with 5 skulls. Even with Blubber, he can only block 2 and is destroyed. Cyclops moves Jean and Optic Blasts Huntress. With her defense back up to 5, she defends well. Huntress is now free to move and gets within 2 of Cyclops, but can only hit him for 1 wound (1). Mystique moves adjacent to Cyclops and misses Huntress.
Round 5: Initiative Team Jean. Cyclops Optics Blasts Huntress for another wound (2). Huntress destroys Cyclops. OM2 on Cyclops. Huntress turns her crossbow on Jean who follows Cyclops off the battlefield. Mystique puts Huntress back to critical life (3). Huntress retreats towards Alfred.
Round 6: Initiative Team Jean. Mystique misses the fleeing Huntress, who gets back adjacent to Alfred, hoping to survive another attack. Mystique rolls 3 skulls against Alfred, who blocks just one (2), but it’s enough as he heals Huntress (1), who gets after Mystique, hitting her for 1 wound (1). Mystique shoots back from height and destroys Huntress. OM3 on Huntress.
Round 7: Initiative Team Alfred. Alfred can’t get close enough for a shot, so gains height. Mystique finishes off the butler directly.

Team Jean wins on Turn 2 of Round 7 with Mystique with 1 wound.

Alfred plays exceptionally well. Some great strategic decisions have to be made as to when to invest an OM on him, but if you guess right, it can make a substantial difference in the game.

[Griffin]

Alfred looks spot on for 40 points, so I am guessing that his healing and field extraction powers are gonna raise his cost some in the army tests.

[whitestuff]

Finished playtest from tcglkn.

- THEME TEST/ PASS
- MIRROR TEST/ PASS
- BONDING TEST/ PASS
- SYNERGIES TEST/ PASS
- POWER CHECK/ PASS
- FUN TEST/ PASS
- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ PASS
- DRAFTING TEST/ PASS (As a filler in a Supers battle)
- USAGE TEST/ PASS
- STRATEGY TEST/ PASS

ALL TESTS DONE ON EMBATTLED FEN (BoV)
Heavy Hitter Test - VS Theracus
TEST 1 - Alfred won with 1 wound.
TEST 2 - Theracus won with 2 wounds
TEST 3 - Alfred won with 2 wounds.
TEST 4 - Theracus won with no wounds
TEST 5 - Theracus won with 2 wounds

Squad test - (Was tempted to run Deathreavers but…) VS Blade Gruts
TEST 1 - Gruts won. They were able to avoid the shotgun attack by staying separate.

ARMY TEST 1 - Batman, Alfred, Green Lantern and Isamu (600) VS Superman, 5th Precinct Beat Cops x3 (595)
Sent Batman out early to hit Superman, but the Cops kept killing themselves to protect Superman. Batman also kept avoiding Superman's hits with Evasive Strike (Also blocked by Cops). So down 6 Cops, neither Batman or Superman have any wounds and I am starting to regret my army choices. So I used Alfred to call Batman back. I then sent out Green Lantern to take out Superman. After two good hits with Green Lantern, Superman had 3 wounds (The last Cops hadn't caught up yet…). Superman rolled 7 skulls on his next attack :O. So Green Lantern just decided to use his power shield, much to Superman's annoyance. Green Lantern got another good roll of 4 hits and Superman got all skulls and one blank. So Superman is down to one life. Batman moved back up to where Superman and Green Lantern were to try to take Superman out with Evasive Strike. Green Lantern moved on to take out the Cops moving up so they couldn't save Superman more. Green Lantern got two turns in a row taking out two Cops. Batman took a couple wounds from Superman, so Alfred moved up to try to heal Bataman, taking a small shotgun shot at Superman for the heck of it. 3 skulls from Alfred, and 2 shields and 6 skulls from Superman! Alfred killed Superman! What a great roll! Batman killed the last cop for the win.

ARMY TEST 2 - Alfred, Huntress, Black Canary, and Batman (600) VS Thor, Plastic Man and Fire Elemental x1

Thor went out to take out Batman, and hit hard, 6 skulls with one block. Batman is out. Black Canary then went up to Thor and hit him 3 times with Fists of Fury, but he blocked all three attacks completely. He then hit her with 5 skulls, she only blocked 2, giving her 3 wounds. Alfred brought Black Canary back at the start of the next round, healing 1 wound. Thor followed her back, gaining height during the move. Huntress then moved out too attack Thor. Due to her Reckless Engagement, she hit him with four skulls, which he couldn't completely block. Thor has one wound. On Thor's turn, he rolled an amazing 7 skulls! Huntress blocked 3, but it wasn't enough. Huntress was out. Thor had a free turn now. He retreated out of Canary's threat range. Canary took the next turn and was able to heal her wounds. So now it was a full health Canary and Alfred VS Thor w/ 1 wound, Plastic Man and the FE. Canary moved up to attack Thor, who was out of her range. Thor then moved up and attacked Canary, he put 2 wounds on her. She then attacked Thor, who blocked the attack like nothing hit him. Thor took her out the next turn. I then sent Plastic Man after Alfred for no reason. Plastic Man took 2 wounds, but took Alfred out.

Alfred is a good filler unit. In the first battle, he saved Batman from a battle that was going no where and even got a lucky shot on Superman. In the second, he saved Black Canary's life and fully healed her. He is a little tricky to use, but I think I got the most I could out of him. He is definitely nothing more than a filler though.

[Griffin]

Wow Thor beat the crap out of those Vigilantes! I think in that match, Alfred was the MVP, but I think that he hurt his team in a very indirect way, the Vigilantes didn't need a healer in this game, they needed fire power and Alfred didn't have it.... 40 points max right now.

[Hahma]

I'd say 40 would be tops and not a bad spot, though would Rats or one of those Elementals, or Isamu and Eldgrim help Bats/Vigilante's more for the cost? So maybe even 35 might make him more draftable, at least you can't get Rats for that. Like any other unit there will be games where he's worth more or worth less, though in the big scheme of superheroscape, sometimes 200 point units end up being worth 40 points when they get clobbered easily. Being able to save a Vigilante's bacon can be worth more than 40 points, as a 3 wound Batman getting brought back and getting 1 wound removed and then 2 more from Field Medic is like getting a fresh Bats. He'll even occasionally kill someone like Superman :D

Timing the use of OM on him could be the tricky part, though if you played him with Red Skull then you wouldn't have to worry about that.

[Griffin]

I'd say 40 would be tops and not a bad spot, though would Rats or one of those Elementals, or Isamu and Eldgrim help Bats/Vigilante's more for the cost? So maybe even 35 might make him more draftable, at least you can't get Rats for that. Like any other unit there will be games where he's worth more or worth less, though in the big scheme of superheroscape, sometimes 200 point units end up being worth 40 points when they get clobbered easily. Being able to save a Vigilante's bacon can be worth more than 40 points, as a 3 wound Batman getting brought back and getting 1 wound removed and then 2 more from Field Medic is like getting a fresh Bats. He'll even occasionally kill someone like Superman :D

Timing the use of OM on him could be the tricky part, though if you played him with Red Skull then you wouldn't have to worry about that.
Well Field Medic does require an Order Marker, but I get your point. So far, I would consider 30 points, but I think we agree that 40 feels just right.

[Hahma]

Well Field Medic does require an Order Marker, but I get your point. So far, I would consider 30 points, but I think we agree that 40 feels just right.

I was referring to Remote Field Extraction not requiring an OM on Alfred's card. So you could use it from a turn given to him by Red Skull, so you wouldn't have to worry as much about the timing of when to put an OM on him to use Field Extraction because Red Skull can let him use it right when the Vigilante needs it without having to guess when he might need it. So that's pretty cool. So he'd even work with Prof X for that matter, though not as likely.

What about 35 points? If you would go with 30 or 40, why not 35 to keep it not too high and not too low ( at least in our guestimations :D)

[Griffin]

I could go 35 I think, but I need to study all the completed playtests first, and then possibly play one or two extra games just to see. Right now though, 40 feels most appropriate.

[Griffin]

I thought you may want to consider this for a background shot.
http://gaygamer.net/images/MKvsDCU_Batcave.jpg

[whitestuff]

I thought you may want to consider this for a background shot.
http://gaygamer.net/images/MKvsDCU_Batcave.jpg
That is actually the background pic that I used for the box art of our first release...

Suits me fine. :)

[Griffin]

:rofl: I didn't know that. :lol:

[A3n]

I thought you may want to consider this for a background shot.
http://gaygamer.net/images/MKvsDCU_Batcave.jpg

I can't see it. I hope it's of the batcave coz that's what I was thinking would be best for him.

[whitestuff]

I thought you may want to consider this for a background shot.
http://gaygamer.net/images/MKvsDCU_Batcave.jpg

I can't see it. I hope it's of the batcave coz that's what I was thinking would be best for him.
I didn't see the pic until I quoted Griff's post, but yes it is the batcave.

[Griffin]

Is this any better?
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu234/hsgriffin/MKvsDCU_Batcave.jpg?t=1275824580

[whitestuff]

That's better...

Did you happen to look at the url of where you got that picture? ;)

[Griffin]

That's better...

Did you happen to look at the url of where you got that picture? ;)
Just a bunch of very happy very funny boys who love to play games... and how can love be wrong? ;)

[A3n]

Is this any better?
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu234/hsgriffin/MKvsDCU_Batcave.jpg?t=1275824580

Yep, much better & I agree, that's also the background for the Batman mini card.

[IAmBatman]

This looks like it's coming along nicely and nothing to make us question 40 points yet. :-)
I agree that the cost would go down before going up, as well.

[whitestuff]

Sir G has finished his play-test...

Check the first post.

[Griffin]

Alfred is really looking like a solid 40 points from where I can see.

[Hahma]

Yeah, he looks good at 40

[IAmBatman]

I think he's ready for the final editing phase and a 40 point final cost! :-)
Great job as Lead Designer, Whitestuff!

[whitestuff]

So, is this when I propose we move to the finalizing stage?

Yea?

[IAmBatman]

Stick something in there about finalizing his cost at 40 and put it all in bold and ... yea.

[whitestuff]

Like this?

I propose we move Alfred at 40 points to the finalizing stage.

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Yep :-)

[Griffin]

Yea

[Hahma]

yea

[A3n]

Yea

[Griffin]

:bump: Have you voted today? :D

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Six down, two to go here as well!

[Griffin]

OK, I guess I am doing things a bit differently here, since I just finished the two army tests first, and two Units that I used were Alfred and Black Mask which haven't been released yet, but what the heck, it really needed to be tested Imo. :DThat last army test was a great read. :up:

I think that I'll count this as a bit of a test for Alfred as well...

He seems to be MVP for the match. A few good healing turns, a successful evac and more kills than I'd imagined. I know that one great outing is just that, but does this effect our 40 points thinking?
I am glad you brought that up, and I am gonna take that to the Alfred thread actually.So yeah, I think that he should cost a bit more after playing with him. Like at least 60 points but I could easily justify a cost of 75 or 80 after my test with him (found on the second army test for Penguin), as he was honestly more useful than Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan or James Murphy have ever been for me. Alfred was my MVP for sure.

[IAmBatman]

I'm not at all convinced that the test you put up justifies a rise in Alfred's cost.
The other team was focusing on the vigilantes, allowing him to operate freely as a healer and and an end gamer, where he has the best shot at succeeding.
It seems like the dice favored him in his match against the 95 point Toad, and went against him in his match against the 10 point Isamu.
Either way, the game swung on a single 10 point figure, which tells me it was extremely balanced overall. Some of the Vigilantes may have underperformed, but it seems they did pretty well from the write up, and Alfred was in one of the better army combos for him, against opponents lacking a mobile ranged assassin to take him out early.
Like I said, I think he's probably good at 40. If his cost goes up too much, I think his draftability starts going way down.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Just to clarify, does Griff's question rescind his Yes?

[Griffin]

Just to clarify, does Griff's question rescind his Yes?
I don't know. :reapershrug: :lol:

I simply had a really good end game clean up with him against weak or dying figures, so... I don't know what to say beyond that one time use of him. I will say this though, I am starting to get a bit worried with how well he may perform with other Human figures in the future that may be able to protect him or even heal him back.... I think that once we get to the Final Editing Phase, I may exercise this rule:

FINAL EDITING PHASE Once Private C3G Design threads have been moved from the playtesting phase to the final editing phase, certain requirements must be met for the Private Designs to move to the release phase.


- There must be a finished product for members to critique, proof, and edit.
- The vote to pass in this phase must be a unanimous vote among the Heroes. However, if a Hero fails to vote yea or nay within 48 hours, their vote is forfeited and is not needed to pass the unit. At the end of 48 hours, all votes will be tallied.
- Any Hero may stop this phase by asking for 48 hours for more playtesting. After 48 hours, the voting process may resume.

[Hahma]

I'm not at all convinced that the test you put up justifies a rise in Alfred's cost.
The other team was focusing on the vigilantes, allowing him to operate freely as a healer and and an end gamer, where he has the best shot at succeeding.
It seems like the dice favored him in his match against the 95 point Toad, and went against him in his match against the 10 point Isamu.
Either way, the game swung on a single 10 point figure, which tells me it was extremely balanced overall. Some of the Vigilantes may have underperformed, but it seems they did pretty well from the write up, and Alfred was in one of the better army combos for him, against opponents lacking a mobile ranged assassin to take him out early.
Like I said, I think he's probably good at 40. If his cost goes up too much, I think his draftability starts going way down.

I kind of have to agree with Bats. I mean Two-Face takes out Black Canary with a triple attack but barely scratches Alfred? Then Toad can't do Jack? I mean there is plenty of height on that map that Toad could have leapt to in order to get to Alfred more inderectly.

Also on this map, it's a long map that kind of takes a while to get down and not as easy to flank an opponent. I understand that one might concentrate on others besides Alfred, but in a lot of maps, he's not going to have the luxury of having the same set up where his teammates are going to keep close to him to be able to try to get wounds off.

He had a nice game vs. the criminal faction, but if he's only going to be that effective in that situation and with Vigilantes, then I don't think his cost should go way up or he won't be drafted in other situations vs. other opponent types.

[Griffin]

I'm not at all convinced that the test you put up justifies a rise in Alfred's cost.
The other team was focusing on the vigilantes, allowing him to operate freely as a healer and and an end gamer, where he has the best shot at succeeding.
It seems like the dice favored him in his match against the 95 point Toad, and went against him in his match against the 10 point Isamu.
Either way, the game swung on a single 10 point figure, which tells me it was extremely balanced overall. Some of the Vigilantes may have underperformed, but it seems they did pretty well from the write up, and Alfred was in one of the better army combos for him, against opponents lacking a mobile ranged assassin to take him out early.
Like I said, I think he's probably good at 40. If his cost goes up too much, I think his draftability starts going way down.

I kind of have to agree with Bats. I mean Two-Face takes out Black Canary with a triple attack but barely scratches Alfred? Then Toad can't do Jack? I mean there is plenty of height on that map that Toad could have leapt to in order to get to Alfred more inderectly. Toad was on height against Alfred the entire time, Alfred was shooting at height disadvantage the whole time, and besides, I think you are also overlooking the fact that Alfred out ranges Toad, so he can draw him out, but Toad cannot do the same, even his tongue lash requires him to be within a shorter range and no more than 3 levels higher or lower than the figure.

Also on this map, it's a long map that kind of takes a while to get down and not as easy to flank an opponent. I understand that one might concentrate on others besides Alfred, but in a lot of maps, he's not going to have the luxury of having the same set up where his teammates are going to keep close to him to be able to try to get wounds off. Wrong. When you can take a Vigilante off the board anywhere on the board once per game, it is easy to get them close every game. Especially when your strategy is to keep them all close and let the bad guys come after you, that is what I did.

He had a nice game vs. the criminal faction, but if he's only going to be that effective in that situation and with Vigilantes, then I don't think his cost should go way up or he won't be drafted in other situations vs. other opponent types.I don't think that any of us know that though. That is why I plan on calling it in for an additional 48 hours of playtesting to be sure.

[IAmBatman]

Don't get me wrong - I'm fine with additional playtesting. I just don't think there's anything in the one playtest that brought this up to make me in favor of any boosts to his cost at this time.
If more convincing results start adding up, that's a different story.

[Hahma]

I'm not at all convinced that the test you put up justifies a rise in Alfred's cost.
The other team was focusing on the vigilantes, allowing him to operate freely as a healer and and an end gamer, where he has the best shot at succeeding.
It seems like the dice favored him in his match against the 95 point Toad, and went against him in his match against the 10 point Isamu.
Either way, the game swung on a single 10 point figure, which tells me it was extremely balanced overall. Some of the Vigilantes may have underperformed, but it seems they did pretty well from the write up, and Alfred was in one of the better army combos for him, against opponents lacking a mobile ranged assassin to take him out early.
Like I said, I think he's probably good at 40. If his cost goes up too much, I think his draftability starts going way down.

I kind of have to agree with Bats. I mean Two-Face takes out Black Canary with a triple attack but barely scratches Alfred? Then Toad can't do Jack? I mean there is plenty of height on that map that Toad could have leapt to in order to get to Alfred more inderectly. Toad was on height against Alfred the entire time, Alfred was shooting at height disadvantage the whole time, and besides, I think you are also overlooking the fact that Alfred out ranges Toad, so he can draw him out, but Toad cannot do the same, even his tongue lash requires him to be within a shorter range and no more than 3 levels higher or lower than the figure.

Also on this map, it's a long map that kind of takes a while to get down and not as easy to flank an opponent. I understand that one might concentrate on others besides Alfred, but in a lot of maps, he's not going to have the luxury of having the same set up where his teammates are going to keep close to him to be able to try to get wounds off. Wrong. When you can take a Vigilante off the board anywhere on the board once per game, it is easy to get them close every game. Especially when your strategy is to keep them all close and let the bad guys come after you, that is what I did.

He had a nice game vs. the criminal faction, but if he's only going to be that effective in that situation and with Vigilantes, then I don't think his cost should go way up or he won't be drafted in other situations vs. other opponent types.I don't think that any of us know that though. That is why I plan on calling it in for an additional 48 hours of playtesting to be sure.


Okay, I understand that Alfred can summon someone once per game to get them back close, I meant after that and being able to have the rest of the army adjacent to him. But I guess the other team can have Raelin and Kelda in their army and keep them close together also with the rest of their army near their zone and both teams can wait for the others to come to them.

But if Alfred whacked Toad that easily when Toad had height, isn't that kind of more flukey than would be expected as the norm. In one test, Daredevil killed well over 200 points for me but then it was argued because of other results that he should be 180. They are all going to have great games and clunkers, that's why more testing might be needed.

And my point about him being that effective vs. Criminal faction was wrong, as again it was only one game. And the Criminals had to deal with Penguin taking turns out of order and Black Mask killing his own. :D

Don't get me wrong - I'm fine with additional playtesting. I just don't think there's anything in the one playtest that brought this up to make me in favor of any boosts to his cost at this time.
If more convincing results start adding up, that's a different story.


That's all I'm saying too. If he consistently has great games then I'm more than happy to bump his cost up.

[Griffin]

Don't get me wrong - I'm fine with additional playtesting. I just don't think there's anything in the one playtest that brought this up to make me in favor of any boosts to his cost at this time.
If more convincing results start adding up, that's a different story.


That's all I'm saying too. If he consistently has great games then I'm more than happy to bump his cost up.
Well then we are all saying the same thing. :D
I have only played with him once, and I believe that I can consistently get more than just a 40 point value out of him every time. That is why I want to test him a bit more once we get to the Final Editing Phase, because I would rather test it and find out I am wrong now, than not test it further and you end up being wrong later.

[Hahma]

Well then we are all saying the same thing. :D
I have only played with him once, and I believe that I can consistently get more than just a 40 point value out of him every time. That is why I want to test him a bit more once we get to the Final Editing Phase, because I would rather test it and find out I am wrong now, than not test it further and you end up being wrong later.

I agree that your concern is something to take serious and that his process should be paused until those concerns are either verified or alleviated.

I guess some questions can be,

"If you are able to use Field Extraction every game to remove 1 wound marker from a Vigilante or Sidekick, is that in an of itself worth 40 points?"

"If you are able to remove 2 or more wounds every game from a human, between Field Extraction and Field Medic, how much is that worth?"

"if you use an OM on Alfred for Remote Field Extraction instead of attacking with a unit in good position to do some damage, does that take away some value of Field Extraction?"

"If you guess wrong when to use Alfred and have to use an OM when either a Vigilante or Sidekick isn't wounded or dies before being able to use Field Extraction, how does that affect his cost?"

"Keeping your human units near Alfred to use Field Medic while an opponent can strike from far away, can that be a negative thing in some cases?"

"Does being limited to certain classes or species for use of his powers make him niche enough to affect his cost?"

"If Alfred can hide in a castle and bring a Vigilante back or keep human ranged units healed up while in good position on the wall walk behind battlements would make his value go up in that case?"

[Griffin]

Good write up Hahma, and I think that most all of those questions are making me think he is definitely worth more than just a mere 40 points, especially the first question.

[Griffin]

The proposal to move Alfred to the Final Editing phase has passed.

I am calling in the 48 hour period to allow for a bit more playtesting.

[whitestuff]

The proposal to move Alfred to the Final Editing phase has passed.

I am calling in the 48 hour period to allow for a bit more playtesting.
Sorry about not being about.

In a nutshell, I have a tonne of work to do in preparation for an operation that I'm having in a few days time.

I have a load of papers to mark, report cards to write and a couple of weeks of planning to do for whoever is taking my place. *sigh*

I'll be so light on the ground I'd better pick someone else to do my voting for me for a week or two...

GreyOwl, care to vote for me?

[Griffin]

The proposal to move Alfred to the Final Editing phase has passed.

I am calling in the 48 hour period to allow for a bit more playtesting.
Sorry about not being about.

In a nutshell, I have a tonne of work to do in preparation for an operation that I'm having in a few days time.

I have a load of papers to mark, report cards to write and a couple of weeks of planning to do for whoever is taking my place. *sigh*

I'll be so light on the ground I'd better pick someone else to do my voting for me for a week or two...

GreyOwl, care to vote for me?I hope all is well, and I will certainly keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

[A3n]

Yeah mate, I hope all goes according to plan. & take it easy.

Cheers

[whitestuff]

Thanks for the concern.

I've been on a public waiting list for over two and a half years waiting for my umbilical hernia to be repaired.

For some reason it is considered an elective surgery... :shrug:

[A3n]

Thanks for the concern.

I've been on a public waiting list for over two and a half years waiting for my umbilical hernia to be repaired.

For some reason it is considered an elective surgery... :shrug:

I just hope you don't get that room in the cupboard ;).

[GreyOwl]

The proposal to move Alfred to the Final Editing phase has passed.

I am calling in the 48 hour period to allow for a bit more playtesting.
Sorry about not being about.

In a nutshell, I have a tonne of work to do in preparation for an operation that I'm having in a few days time.

I have a load of papers to mark, report cards to write and a couple of weeks of planning to do for whoever is taking my place. *sigh*

I'll be so light on the ground I'd better pick someone else to do my voting for me for a week or two...

GreyOwl, care to vote for me?

Sure, I'll vote for you. And hope all goes and well and that you feel better soon!

[IAmBatman]

Oye, that sounds rough, Whitey. Hope all goes well!

[NecroBlade]

To whitestuff, I echo the others' sentiments. :)

As for Alfred, does he really need a shotgun? (For all I know, he could use it all the time in the comics, then I'm OK with it. It just seems like an excuse to give a minor 'support' character some offensive punch, though.)

[Hahma]

I too hope you are feeling better Whitestuff. I have only recently gotten my phone service and internet back (bad wires in a damaged phone box near the pole) and have been trying to catch up with stuff. I will try to get an army playtest in for Alfred done tomorrow morning. Sorry for the delay with that as I've had pool issues that I finally got straightened out and now the kids are jonesing to use it at every opportunity when it's not thunder-storming.

Regarding the shotgun Necro, I really don't think that he'll likely get to use it much as he would likely only have an OM on his card to bring a figure back to heal and as a the last figure left for a team. So based on his feeble defense and life, he should be taken down relatively easy the majority of the time without the shotgun being overly used. At least that's my theoryscaping.:D

[whitestuff]

I too hope you are feeling better Whitestuff.There's nothing to do now but to lie in bed, doing bugger all... A bit dull really...

I will try to get an army playtest in for Alfred done tomorrow morning. Thanks. I'm looking forward to it. I'd do the same myself but it is a bit difficult at the moment... :(

[A3n]

Thanks. I'm looking forward to it. I'd do the same myself but it is a bit difficult at the moment... :(

You make it sound like you had stomach cut open or something :p.

[Griffin]

I too hope you are feeling better Whitestuff.There's nothing to do now but to lie in bed, doing bugger all... A bit dull really...

I will try to get an army playtest in for Alfred done tomorrow morning. Thanks. I'm looking forward to it. I'd do the same myself but it is a bit difficult at the moment... :(
Well take things easy and rest. We need you back to full health if Alfred is going to ever move to the On Deck thread. :)

Plus we like you and want you to feel good.... yeah that too. :D

~ Griffin, sending his best wishes and prayers

[Griffin]

So GO and A3n, we need some cards up here to look at as soon as possible. We are in the Final Editing Phase, and so we need a finished product to review.

[A3n]

So GO and A3n, we need some cards up here to look at as soon as possible. We are in the Final Editing Phase, and so we need a finished product to review.

There isn't a mini photo yet.

But I'll start on the comic pic card now.

Cheers

[A3n]

Here's the comic card:
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_comic.jpg

Cheers

[Hahma]

I finished the test for Alfred but it was inconclusive regarding him.

Batman, Daredevil, Huntress and Alfred kicked the snot out of Black Canary, Green Arrow Kaemon Awa and Cops x 2.

Batman wasn't even activated as DD did most of the damage because his Radar Sense was huge and he could barely miss and when BC, KA or GA got adjacent to Cops for protection, DD used that to his advantage for Man Without Fear. Huntress came in and kicked ass too. Green Arrow only rolled for a good SS (-2 to defense) one time out of many tries and BC had a hard time connecting with DD and his Radar Sense. Alfred summoned Huntress back to heal a wound on like the 3rd to last turn just to try it just before DD finished off the last Cop and Green Arrow.

I'll try to do another test that will hopefully have more use for Alfred. I'll replace DD with Punisher, so there won't be any Radar Sense out of the world luck. :D

[Hahma]

Okay, I'm not going to spend a ton of time in detailing the 2 army tests I've done for Alfred. I'll give the results and some pertinent info as I don't think full details are required at this point and especially in these tests.

For Army test 1 on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map

Batman (200) Daredevil (180) Huntress (170) and Alfred (40) for 590 points.

vs.

Black Canary (190) Green Arrow (150) Kaemon Awa (120) and Cops x 2 (130) for 590 points.

Batman with 0 activations and 0 wounds, Alfred with 1 activation and 0 wounds, Daredevil with 2 wounds and Huntress with 2 wounds (had 3 but Alfred took one off with Remote Field Extraction). They won on T3R6.

Unfortunately for the BC team, having Cops adjacent to you wasn't a good thing when DD is rolling well for his Radar Sense. He would get adjacent to BC and 2 cops or KA and a cop or whatever and get the attack boost for MWF. He was smart and attacked KA first to have the most attack dice vs. counter strike because if he had attacked and killed a cop first, he'd have 1 less attack die. Then if he was going against BC and a Cop, he'd attack the Cop first so that if he attacked her and she destroyed the Cop for P+S, then he couldn't attack again. So DD always maximized his MWF attacks (very fun and strategic special power for him depending on various opponents). He rolled exceptional for Radar Sense and avoided many attacks and if he didn't he mostly rolled good defense as he was in the thick of things for much of the game and only suffered 2 wounds for it. Huntress also got into the mix with her crossbow attacks and was deadly when she got to use it when 2 spaces away. She took 3 wounds and I used Alfred to Field Extract her and heal 1 wound off, just to use his power as on the next turn, DD killed the last Cop and Green Arrow. So I really didn't need to use Alfred at all, but did for the heck of it.

A lot of good luck for Vigilante team (particularly DD) and bad dice luck for Black Canary's team.


Army test 2 also was done on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh

Batman (200) Punisher (180) Huntress (170) and Alfred (40) for 590 points.

vs.

Captain America (220) Green Arrow (150) Agent Skahen (120) and Kravs (100) for 590 points.

Okay, I tried to use a beefier hero by inserting Cap into the lineup and wanted to keep GA for his anti-Batman/Punisher range and then Skahen and Kravs to help avoid ranged attacks and get multiple ranged attacks for Cap's team.

Well, it didn't work out so well, as the Vigilante army kicked ass again.

Bats with 1 wound, Punisher with 2 wounds, Huntress with 2 wounds and Alfred with 0 wounds or activations survived to win on T6R5.

Cap's team really rolled crappy attacks, especially Green Arrow. He only managed to get a SS for -2 to opponent's defense 1 time and only rolled 2 skulls to put only 1 wound on Huntress with it. Other times he would whiff attacks or only roll 1 or 2 skulls, even when adjacent to Cap for an attack of 5.

Talk about a nice counter to the Cap surrounded by Krav/Skahen/GA attack/defense boost tactic. I finally got to use Punisher's Auto-Shotgun in a cool way that wasn't against squads. He brazenly (as he's want to do) moved within 4 spaces of Cap and blasted at him with the Shotgun. He only rolled 1 skull for the first blast and didn't inflict any wounds or kills. But on his second blast, he rolled 2 skulls and it was enough to put 1 wound on Cap, kill 2 whiffing Kravs and miss both Skahen and Green Arrow. Not a devastating attack, but got a wound on Cap, but more importantly, whittled down the Kravs to leave them greatly less effective with only 1 left and that was the intention anyway.

Punisher was the hero of this game like his 180 point fellow Vigilante DD was in army test one. He had the nice shotgun blast in round 2. He had put the first 2 wounds on Cap with AR in round 1. After that, he only had 1 OM on his card per round with 1 on Bats and Huntress as well to keep opponent off balance. But from round 3-5, he used his Rocket attack to put 2 wounds on Green Arrow while he was adjacent to Cap, put final 2 wounds on Cap (that had height) with a 3 skull attack that Cap could only block 1 of them with his defense reduced to 4. He also killed the last Krav (that had height) as he rolled 2 skulls to bring the Krav's defense down to 2 and she whiffed and died.

Bat's took out Skahen after taking 1 wound from her when he was 7 spaces away.

Huntress finished off Green Arrow with her crossbow at 2 spaces.

Unfortunately for Cap's team, they rolled really bad attack dice, especially vs. Punisher who was in their grill all the time. They would attack with multiple attacks from Kravs or Skahen and only roll 1 skull or sometimes 2 that he mostly blocked. Cap didn't roll well for his shield throw either. Vigilante firepower defense and versatility was dominant once again.

I could have used Alfred again for the heck of it, but there wasn't a reason to. I was hoping Cap's team would have done better and make a game of it so I would utilize Alfred, but it just didn't happen that way.

So I don't know what these tests accomplish other than to say that if Alfred's on a team that is dominating either with dice luck or not good opponent, then Alfred might not get used and his 40 points is sitting there unused. On the other hand, I think that had the opponent had all the good luck, Alfred may have gotten used, but then again, timing the use of his OM is important too so that there are Vigilante's alive to use Field Extraction for. Punisher and Huntress could have easily gotten taken out in a round and gone from 1 wound to dead before Alfred even had an OM to use. That would leave Bats, but if he wasn't wounded, then you couldn't extract him with Alfred and maybe have burned an OM.

The strategy vs. Vigilante/Alfred army could be to try to focus on 1 Vigilante at a time so that they get killed before Alfred could bring them back (I tried that vs Punisher but he rolled good D and they rolled crappy attacks). If other Vigilante's are unwounded, Alfred can't bring them back, so there may be a way around his Field Extraction if the dice work well for the opponent and they can focus on killing off one Vigilante at a time.

Perhaps a GL Hal/Iron Man army vs. the Vigilante's would have worked better and had more firepower and heavy hitterness to bring to the table. But then again, they could have rolled crappy too and fell just the same.

I think that Alfred at 40 could be okay, as there will be times that he won't be utilized at all due to either dominance by his team or by anti-Alfred strategy by opponent. Sure he'll have great games and be worth more, but look at DD and Punisher in these games, they were worth more than their cost in these games and I'm sure they'll have crappy gamest too where they aren't worth half their points. One other thing about anti-Alfred strategies, it's kind of like not attacking Thanos or Grundy if you don't have to. You don't want them to come back to life and be worth their points or more. So with Alfred, you try to keep Vigilante's from coming back into the action with fewer wounds than they had gotten at one point.

[whitestuff]

So... you win some, you lose some?

:)

[Hahma]

So... you win some, you lose some?

:)

Yep. :)

Just like many other units, there will be times when they don't get used or are used and aren't worth their points, are used and worth their points, or are used and worth a lot more than their points.

I'm sure Alfred Extracting Punisher with 4 wounds to get him down to 3 and then put a couple OM's on Punisher's card and rolling high enough on the d20 to remove a couple more wounds would make Alfred worth over 100 points at that point by essentially healing 3 wounds from Punisher and making him almost new. But in the 2 games I played him in he didn't do anything other than a token Extraction for Huntress that wasn't necessary. I guess certain things have to work out right for Alfred to be over performing and I don't think from our limited testing that we can see that him doing that on a regular basis. Just like we can't say that he'll under perform on a regular basis because he didn't really get used in my tests.

[Griffin]

It seems to me, that with Alfred at such a low point value, it is allowing you to draft more points worth of kick ass Vigilantes.... I DO see that as a potential problem. They are already very powerful, and if he is used, it is that much more powerful because you are sustaining or prolonging their life. I really think that we have probably reached the limit as to how much playtesting needs to be done, but from my experience playing the one game with him, and from reading his reports, I really think that I would never have a problem drafting him if he cost 60 points. Just compare him to the other shotgun wielders of Valhalla Scape and consider the fact that he can potentially and very seriously boost the Vigilante/Sidekick "Faction".

[Hahma]

It seems to me, that with Alfred at such a low point value, it is allowing you to draft more points worth of kick ass Vigilantes.... I DO see that as a potential problem. They are already very powerful, and if he is used, it is that much more powerful because you are sustaining or prolonging their life. I really think that we have probably reached the limit as to how much playtesting needs to be done, but from my experience playing the one game with him, and from reading his reports, I really think that I would never have a problem drafting him if he cost 60 points. Just compare him to the other shotgun wielders of Valhalla Scape and consider the fact that he can potentially and very seriously boost the Vigilante/Sidekick "Faction".



Then let's bump him up to 60 points. My tests are kind of inconclusive in that his army would have won even if he weren't in the army at all and they were 40 points short of the other army. I guess with the Vigilante/Sidekick faction building, the chance of him healing several wounds off of a 150-200 point figure is worth 60 points and when he isn't involved at all then it's still not a big loss for 60 points for the potential that he can have.

He doesn't have the offensive firepower of Shotgun Sullivan who has a range of 7 for a normal attack vs. Alfred's normal range of 1 and Sullivan has Tricky personality to have synergies as well as 2 more lives than Alfred. But Alfred has his Extraction and healing powers to make up for that and isn't supposed to be offensive, so his 2 fewer lives isn't such a big deal when he's going to be hiding in the back most of the time.

[Griffin]

Here Here for 60 points. :thumbsup:

[whitestuff]

60 points sounds like a safe call.

[Hahma]

Whitestuff, here's a preemptive YEA if you propose Alfred be finalized at 60 points.

[whitestuff]

Whitestuff, here's a preemptive YEA if you propose Alfred be finalized at 60 points.
I think that might be a good thing to do.

I propose that Alfred is to be finalized at 60 points.

Yea from me.

[Griffin]

Yea.

[A3n]

60 points was higher than I would like to see this character but I can see how he could be worth it but I'm not sure he would warrant the 60 points more often then not :shrug:. But since the playtesters are happy with 60 then it has my YEA.

[Hahma]

60 points was higher than I would like to see this character but I can see how he could be worth it but I'm not sure he would warrant the 60 points more often then not :shrug:. But since the playtesters are happy with 60 then it has my YEA.

I think that at 60 points, you must use Field Extraction for him to be at least useful and if you just remove 1 wound from a Vigilante or Sidekick and have Alfred as an end-gamer or fodder unit, he wouldn't be worthless but not worth 60 points. However, if you use Field Extraction and Field Medic to remove say 3 wounds from a Vigilante or Sidekick plus have him as an end-gamer or fodder, then he could be worth more than 60 points.

I think for Alfred, it might be more hit or miss. You might get 30 points out of him, or you might get 100+ points out of him.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea.

[Griffin]

60 points was higher than I would like to see this character but I can see how he could be worth it but I'm not sure he would warrant the 60 points more often then not :shrug:. But since the playtesters are happy with 60 then it has my YEA.

I think that at 60 points, you must use Field Extraction for him to be at least useful and if you just remove 1 wound from a Vigilante or Sidekick and have Alfred as an end-gamer or fodder unit, he wouldn't be worthless but not worth 60 points. However, if you use Field Extraction and Field Medic to remove say 3 wounds from a Vigilante or Sidekick plus have him as an end-gamer or fodder, then he could be worth more than 60 points.

I think for Alfred, it might be more hit or miss. You might get 30 points out of him, or you might get 100+ points out of him.If most Vigilantes are about 200 points (roughly) and you remove one wound out of their usual 4, then you have earned 50 points right there, then by revealing your next order marker on the same Vigilante that is now adjacent to Alfred, you have a chance of healing him/her again. Then there is the point that he could possibly really be affective with his Special Attack. I mean I know that it is limited, but in this game, Special Attacks really are quite useful for avoiding opponent's powers, and it even comes with an area effect, making him IMO, an excellent cheap little clean up unit. I think 60 points is perfect, not because that is all he can do in a game (because I think that he can do more) but because he also has a serious glass jaw.

[whitestuff]

Front page updated to 60 points.

[Griffin]

Man it sucks that we are just waiting on a picture of a figure that costs $60.... :(

[whitestuff]

Man it sucks that we are just waiting on a picture of a figure that costs $60.... :(
Who actually owns this figure, apart from me? Is there someone lined up to take a pic?

[A3n]

Man it sucks that we are just waiting on a picture of a figure that costs $60.... :(
Who actually owns this figure, apart from me? Is there someone lined up to take a pic?

Spidey said he was just waiting on delivery of one. But hey if you can take the photo please feel free to. 8)

Cheers

[whitestuff]

Man it sucks that we are just waiting on a picture of a figure that costs $60.... :(
Who actually owns this figure, apart from me? Is there someone lined up to take a pic?

Spidey said he was just waiting on delivery of one. But hey if you can take the photo please feel free to. 8)

Cheers
I guess I could give it a shot. (As soon as I can get myself up and at'em)

[A3n]

Man it sucks that we are just waiting on a picture of a figure that costs $60.... :(
Who actually owns this figure, apart from me? Is there someone lined up to take a pic?

Spidey said he was just waiting on delivery of one. But hey if you can take the photo please feel free to. 8)

Cheers
I guess I could give it a shot. (As soon as I can get myself up and at'em)

don't bust a stitch or anything. But if you do it was Griff's idea :unsure:

[Griffin]

Man it sucks that we are just waiting on a picture of a figure that costs $60.... :(
Who actually owns this figure, apart from me? Is there someone lined up to take a pic?

Spidey said he was just waiting on delivery of one. But hey if you can take the photo please feel free to. 8)

Cheers
I guess I could give it a shot. (As soon as I can get myself up and at'em)

don't bust a stitch or anything. But if you do it was Griff's idea :unsure:
:lol: Thanks jerk. :p

Don't push yourself Whitey. If you are not up to it, don't sweat it. You can do it when you are full strength or we can let Spidey get around to it, which ever comes first. Getting well is your main priority. :) GOD Bless.

[whitestuff]

Ok. I took a couple of quick pics.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/IMG_1602.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/IMG_1603.jpg

I have them in a higher resolution if you want them. If you don't want them, I could always try again (with better light).

[Griffin]

Those pics looks great!

[A3n]

Wasn't there a background linked in the first post? Where'd it go?

[whitestuff]

Griff found a good one...

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu234/hsgriffin/MKvsDCU_Batcave.jpg?t=1275824580

[A3n]

do we want to re-use that one? That's the one we used for Batman, & didn't you use part of it for the box are on the World's Finest?

[A3n]

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_mini.jpg

Cheers

[Hahma]

Great job A3n:up:

[whitestuff]

Looks great!

My pic didn't turn out too bad after all...

Does this mean we can go to final lookover stage?

[IAmBatman]

This is looking amazing! :-) Great work, guys. When do we vote to finalize this for the On Deck thread?

[Griffin]

This is looking amazing! :-) Great work, guys. When do we vote to finalize this for the On Deck thread?
We are in the final editing phase..... so now I guess. We need both cards up, and then we can vote to finalize and move to the On Deck thread.

[IAmBatman]

OK, well when both cards are up and you get your phone, give me a call and we can go over this one. :-) I'm eager to add to our On Deck numbers.

[IAmBatman]

So ... we still need cards here, right? Anything I can do to help?

[A3n]

So ... we still need cards here, right? Anything I can do to help?

NO I have posted cards in this thread somewhere.

EDIT:
Here -
Here's the comic card:
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_comic.jpg

Cheers

& here -

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/Amas73/Private/C3G/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_mini.jpg

Cheers

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Awesome! They look great. They just need to be on the first page and then we can get a proposal from Whitestuff, right? :-)

[whitestuff]

I propose that Alfred is done dude.

Like that? :)

[A3n]

Awesome! They look great. They just need to be on the first page and then we can get a proposal from Whitestuff, right? :-)

& a notation added to the first post if there is a proxy figure.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

yea (now update the first post :-P )

[Griffin]

I propose that Alfred is done dude.

Like that? :)
I just went over the cards with a fine toothed comb, and they look great. :up: Yea.

[whitestuff]

Oh yeah... that. I'll get onto that now...

[A3n]

Alfred gets my Yea when the first post is update.

[Griffin]

Wow this proposal passed days ago. I went ahead and added him to the On Deck thread. Good work Whitey. :up: Feel free to start a new design from your design pool at any time. :D

[whitestuff]

8)

Thanks lads.

[Griffin]

So we need PDFs over here right?

[A3n]

So we need PDFs over here right?

Sorry guys that actually slipped my mind. PDFs sent to GO now.

Cheers

[GreyOwl]

PDFs:

Alfred Pennyworth (mini) (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_mini.pdf)
Alfred Pennyworth (comic) (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_AlfredPennyworth_comic.pdf)

[Hahma]

Those cards are looking awesome. Great work. :up:

[whitestuff]

Nice work lads. :up:

[Griffin]

Nice work lads. :up:
Hmmmm.... I wonder if those PDFs would look good on the front page beneath the JPGs.... I wonder. :ponder:

[A3n]

Nice work lads. :up:
Hmmmm.... I wonder if those PDFs would look good on the front page beneath the JPGs.... I wonder. :ponder:

Well a link to them certainly would :lol:.

[whitestuff]

Nice work lads. :up:
Hmmmm.... I wonder if those PDFs would look good on the front page beneath the JPGs.... I wonder. :ponder:
I'll get onto that...

[Hidicul]

Marvel- As a Human Hero Abomination (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9719) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a human HeroCaptain America (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9712) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Doctor Doom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9713) may benefit from Alfred's Field Maedic special power.
As a Human Hero The Incredible Hulk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9718) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Iron Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9715) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Spider-Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9716) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Vigilante Venom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9717) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.

C3G-As a Human Hero Batman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596) May benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power, and as a Vigilante he may also benefit from Alfred's Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Vigilante Black Canary (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28607) may benefit from Alfred's Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Human Hero Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Catwoman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28593) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Green Arrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28592) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29548) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Huntress (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29860) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power, and as a Vigilante she may benefit from his Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Human Hero Joker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?&p=996979#post996979) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero penguin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102875#post1102875) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665#post1056665) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Robin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1106410#post1106410) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power, and as a Sidekick he may benefit from Alfred's Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Human Hero Two-Face (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.

Classic- As a Human Hero Agent Carr (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8276) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Agent Skahen (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20771) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Alastair MacDirk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8576) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Ana Karithon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28052) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Brave Arrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25122) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Crixus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8602) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Deadeye Dan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8106) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Eldgrim the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8573) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Finn the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8415) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Guilty McCreech (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8111) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Hatamoto Taro (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8403) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero James Murphy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8689) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8112) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Kaemon Awa (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8402) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Kato Katsuro (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19519) may benefit from Alfred's FieldMedic special power.
As a Human Hero Kumiko (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25327) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Master Win Chiu Woo (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10401) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Moriko (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19545) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Otonashi (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19544) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Parmenio (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8589) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Retiarius (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8603) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sgt. Drake Alexander (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8418) and Sgt. Drake Alexander SotM (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=11081) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Shiori (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=12188) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Denrick (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8577) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Dupis (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19521) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Gilbert (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8578) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Hawthorne (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8579) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Spartacus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8601) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Tandros Kreel (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28051) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Thorgrim the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8416) may benefit From Alfred's Field Medic special power.

[IAmBatman]

Yipes, lots of Human Heroes! Nice list. But it's "Vigilante" (no third "i").

[SirGalahad]

I am proud to have been part of the process for Alfred.
Great work, Heroes.

[IAmBatman]

Thanks! Whitestuff brought us really great stuff to work with on this one. :-)

[johnny139]

You know, while the Chase figure for Alfred is pretty expensive, the Batman Alpha version (Alfred #014) isn't too bad. This site, for example, has him FOR ONLY $4.99 (http://www.gamingetcstore.com/hdba-014.html), while Troll and Toad has him FOR $10.99 (http://www.trollandtoad.com/p237833.html?PHPSESSID=eda0b434167ee5f7e41962f75e0e5bed) (though out of stock). Same sculpt and everything. Couldn't tell you the quality, though, and I've never shopped there before, but it's a lot more managable than the $60+ I've seen the Origins version going for.

[IAmBatman]

Ahh ... I really want to order that $4.99 one but can't find an "add button" for it!

Edit: Ah, it's because that site you linked is defunct. If you just click on the Heroclix link from that site, it takes you to the new site where that figure is listed for $13.25 and is out of stock. :-(

[Lord Pyre]

Ahh ... I really want to order that $4.99 one but can't find an "add button" for it!

If you click some of the other games, it says that there's a new site, this old one isn't updated apparently.


And the new site doesn't have as great a deal... :(
http://minis.gamingetc.com/products/search?query=ALFRED

[IAmBatman]

Yep, figured it out. The new site also doesn't have any in stock - they don't have any in stock anywhere it seems.

[Hidicul]

Yipes, lots of Human Heroes! Nice list. But it's "Vigilante" (no third "i").
Sorry Bats, the spell check wouldn't load for me this morning.

[Hidicul]

Marvel- As a Human Hero Abomination (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9719) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a human HeroCaptain America (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9712) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Doctor Doom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9713) may benefit from Alfred's Field Maedic special power.
As a Human Hero The Incredible Hulk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9718) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Iron Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9715) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Spider-Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9716) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Vigilante Venom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9717) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.

C3G-As a Human Hero Batman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596) May benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power, and as a Vigilante he may also benefit from Alfred's Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Vigilante Black Canary (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28607) may benefit from Alfred's Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Human Hero Black Mask (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30312) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Catwoman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28593) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Green Arrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28592) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29548) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Huntress (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29860) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power, and as a Vigilante she may benefit from his Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Human Hero Joker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?&p=996979#post996979) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Lex Luthor (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29547) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero penguin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1102875#post1102875) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Riddler (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1056665#post1056665) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Robin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1106410#post1106410) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power, and as a Sidekick he may benefit from Alfred's Remote Field Extraction special power.
As a Human Hero Two-Face (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28586) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.

Classic- As a Human Hero Agent Carr (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8276) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Agent Skahen (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20771) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Alastair MacDirk (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8576) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Ana Karithon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28052) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Brave Arrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25122) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Crixus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8602) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Deadeye Dan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8106) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Eldgrim the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8573) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Finn the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8415) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Guilty McCreech (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8111) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Hatamoto Taro (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8403) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero James Murphy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8689) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8112) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Kaemon Awa (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8402) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Kato Katsuro (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19519) may benefit from Alfred's FieldMedic special power.
As a Human Hero Kumiko (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25327) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Master Win Chiu Woo (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=10401) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Moriko (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19545) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Otonashi (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19544) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Parmenio (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8589) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Retiarius (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8603) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sgt. Drake Alexander (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8418) and Sgt. Drake Alexander SotM (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=11081) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Shiori (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=12188) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Denrick (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8577) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Dupis (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19521) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Gilbert (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8578) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Sir Hawthorne (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8579) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Spartacus (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8601) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Tandros Kreel (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28051) may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
As a Human Hero Thorgrim the Viking Champion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8416) may benefit From Alfred's Field Medic special power.

There you go Bats, no third "i". Still can't get the spell checker to load, but it was an easy fix;)

[johnny139]

Ah, sorry for the false alarm then. I suppose that's the curse of random purchase games... hopefully we'll get a new, more common version in a forthcoming set, like with Deadpool (hopefully).

[Hidicul]

By the way Whitestuff, did you realize the amount of Human Heros in classic when you made Field Medic? May fingers were a tad sore after typing up the list, but I can't wait to play him with the Vigilante army.

[IAmBatman]

We almost went all unique heroes. ;) But we decided that his medical tools probably wouldn't do much for a Kryptonian ... (hard to do surgery when you can't pierce the skin!).
And Johnny, no worries, but you did get me excited there! :-P

[Adam Souza]

Wouldn't be more practical to list all the human heroes together on one line

As Human Heroes Sir Gilbert, Captain America, Spider-Man, etc.... may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.

[Hidicul]

Wouldn't be more practical to list all the human heroes together on one line

As Human Heroes Sir Gilbert, Captain America, Spider-Man, etc.... may benefit from Alfred's Field Medic special power.
Well I can do it that way if the Heros want it, but Sir Gilbert wouldn't be on the same line as Cap and Spidey, he's classic and they are Marvel so they go in different sections of the Synergy list;)

[whitestuff]

By the way Whitestuff, did you realize the amount of Human Heros in classic when you made Field Medic? May fingers were a tad sore after typing up the list, but I can't wait to play him with the Vigilante army.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/netpic/copy_paste_tshirt-p2354551839589342.jpg

That shouldn't hurt your fingers... ;)

[Hidicul]

By the way Whitestuff, did you realize the amount of Human Heros in classic when you made Field Medic? May fingers were a tad sore after typing up the list, but I can't wait to play him with the Vigilante army.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/netpic/copy_paste_tshirt-p2354551839589342.jpg

That shouldn't hurt your fingers... ;)
Well that would work, except I needed to supply the links, so I had to type the whole [url= and [ /url]. I copy and pasted the links tem selves since that would have been way to much typing.;)

[Griffin]

By the way Whitestuff, did you realize the amount of Human Heros in classic when you made Field Medic? May fingers were a tad sore after typing up the list, but I can't wait to play him with the Vigilante army.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/netpic/copy_paste_tshirt-p2354551839589342.jpg

That shouldn't hurt your fingers... ;)
Well that would work, except I needed to supply the links, so I had to type the whole [url= and [ /url]. I copy and pasted the links tem selves since that would have been way to much typing.;)
:shhhhhhhh: Less talking and more... pasting. :lol:

[Scapemage]

I was looking through the books for a little project of mine, and I was shocked at the amount of books missing synergy.

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:

Alfred may heal all humans adjacent to him with his Field Medic special power.Marvel:

N/A (see below)C3G:

Alfred may move vigilantes and sidekicks with his Remote Field Extraction special power. Vigilantes and Sidekicks include:Batman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596), Black Canary (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28607), Huntress (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29860), Robin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1106410#post1106410), Venom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9717)

Synergy Benefits Offered


Marvel:
N/AClassic:
N/AC3G:
N/A
_________________________________________________________________



-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-


Initial Playtest - whitestuff (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1090549&postcount=44)
Playtest 1 by SirG (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1102696&postcount=115)

Playtest 2 by tcglkn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1102784&postcount=117)
[/quote]

[IAmBatman]

Updated! Thanks! :-) Can't wait until we can get the other Vigilantes on that list.

[Scapemage]

Updated! Thanks! :-) Can't wait until we can get the other Vigilantes on that list.
I'm going to do the rest tomorrow morning (I'm busy finishing up Hawkman at the moment), but I noticed that under Robin's thread, you completely skipped Venom like he didn't matter.

[IAmBatman]

Actually, that reminds me, you actually set this up wrong, since Venom is a Marvel figure, not a C3G one ... I only put in the C3G synergies for Robin is what happened. :-) Also, I'm not sure if I'm even the one who updated that. I was pretty busy when Wave 3 came out.

[Good Pig]

Any ideas on another figure to use for Alfred? A friend of mine wants to get all the DC figures C3G has put out.

[IAmBatman]

Like as a proxy, or another actual Alfred mini? Because there have only been two Alfred minis released for Heroclix to date and I believe we used the cheaper of the two (which is still hard to find and more expensive than is ideal).

[johnny139]

Though, if I recall correctly, it won't be too long until they release a Classic Pack with Alfred in it, so he'll only cost three or four bucks at most. If you're willing to wait, of course.