The Book of Harley Quinn

[A3n]

The Book of Harley Quinn

C3G DC WAVE 3
SHADOW OF THE BAT

http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_HarleyQuinn_comic.jpg
Comic PDF (http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_HarleyQuinn_comic.pdf)

http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_HarleyQuinn_mini.jpg
Mini PDF (http://C3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_HarleyQuinn_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Hypertime set.
Its model numbers and name are #034-036 / Harley Quinn.
_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - Harleen became fascinated with the Joker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28606) while interning at Arkham, and volunteered to analyze him. She fell hopelessly in love nearly instantly with the Joker during their sessions, and she helped him escape from the asylum more than once. When the Joker is returned to Arkham in a battered and broken state after a battle with Batman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28596), the sight of the injured Joker drives Harley to don the costume and become Harley Quinn, the Joker's sidekick and love.

Harley Quinn later joins forces with Poison Ivy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29791), even sharing an apartment together. Through Poison Ivy's seeds Harley Quinn is gifted super-human agility and strength as well as becoming immune to all toxins.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
Q: So, um, can I like choose any space on the battlefield to throw this bomb at?
A: Um, no. No you can't. The chosen space must be within the range of the attack (range 5, lob 8 ) as it relates to Harley Quinn.
Q: Only figures on same-level spaces are adjacent to spaces. So the bomb affect figures within two spaces horizontally and 0 spaces vertically. Was that the intent? Or should there be a height limit on the affected spaces? Or is it infinite? (If Harley bombs the space at the base of a 50-hex cliff . . .)
A: "Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen space are affected." That is the second line on her card. To determine which spaces are "within 2 spaces of the chosen space" all you have to do is count two hexes over in all directions just as if you would check for the range of an attack, and each counted space is "within" the chosen space. So if Harley bombs a space at the base of a 50 level high hill or a 50,000 high hill, the figures that are one or two spaces over from the chosen space are affected, even if they are all the way up at the top. That is just one of those quirky things in Heroscape; like how Ana Karithon only has a range of 4, but she could still attack a figure that is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 levels higher up than she is. Vertical range is not a factor in this game, unless otherwise stated on cards like the Fen Hydra and Catwoman.
Q: How does Lob work anyway?
A: The official procedure for Lob can be found here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1338371&postcount=433)._______________________________________________________ __________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
Insane Devotion - Harley Quinn may take a turn after any other figure you control in clear sight that has the Insane personality. Current figures with the Insane personality include: Arkham Inmates (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37269), Carnage (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40110), Creeper (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32589), Deadpool (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29561), Firefly (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39999), Floronic Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39098), Green Goblin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31354), Hugo Strange (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39219), Joker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28606), Joker (II) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38384), Mad Hatter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35532), Mister Zsasz (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40164), Poison Ivy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1055278), Ragdoll (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40224), Scarecrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34784), Scorpion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38911).
As a figure with the Insane personality, Harley Quinn is immune to and can be equipped with the Glyph of Smilex (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28656).
As a figure with the Insane personality, Harley Quinn can be moved and activated by Hugo Strange (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39219)'s Insane Provocation special power.
As a figure with the Insane personality, Harley Quinn can be mutated by Hugo Strange (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39219)'s Mutagenic Experiment special power.
As an Insane Unique Hero, Harley Quinn can take a turn after the Joker Goons (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=44173) with their All Part of the Plan special power.Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
As an Insane figure, Harley Quinn is immune to a number of abilities, such as Beast's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27877) Negotiation and Yellow Lantern (Thaal Sinestro)'s (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30301) Force of Fear Special Attack.-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Initial Playtest: HH-Hahma (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1088536&postcount=119); Army- A3n (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1093354&postcount=185)
Second Playtest @ 110: Griffin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1098601&postcount=228)
Third Playtest: Lord Pyre (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1099962&postcount=250)
Additional Army Test 1: Hahma (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1101443&postcount=269)
Additional Army Test 2: IAmBatman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1101770&postcount=275)

[A3n]

Legacy Text:
INSANE DEVOTION
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of any other insane figure you control and taking a turn with that figure, if Harley Quinn is within clear sight of that figure, you may take an immediate turn with Harley Quinn, and you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.

Topics under discussion about Harley Quinn:

12/5/10 - First post added
12/5/10 - Concerns raised about Acrobatic Manoeuvre being to powerful especially for adjacent attackers. IAB's solution to drop defense to 3 adopted.
12/5/10 - Concerns about "defender" being used in text. IAB's suggested wording adopted.
12/5/10 - Concerns about referencing figures adjacent to a space. New wording update in first thread.
12/5/10 - Concern about OM removal for Smilex Bomb SA. My idea that it was to tie in with the Smilex glyph but happy to loose it if others are against it.
12/5/10 - Suggested that Insane might be a better personality. I like deranged because it goes more to her thought processes then just insane & it keeps her out of that group of insane figures.
13/5/10 - Suggestion that the bomb should have a higher attack & only be used once per game. Higher attack, increased range & once per game use adopted.
14/5/10 - Suggestion to make Insane Partnership give a "whole turn" instead of just an "attack only". Whole turn adopted.
15/5/10 - Suggestion to remove OM removal from the Smilex Bomb SA, This would also mean removing the "Smilex" from the title. Popularity keeps the OM removal as is.
15/5/10 - Concern raised about Acrobatic Manoeuvre being too powerful against melee units. Again most are happy with it to stay as is.
16/5/10 - Another suggestion raised to change the personality & class from Deranged Criminal to Insane Psycopath. Adopting the popular class & peronality of Misfit & Insane (It isn't a majority yet though).
16/5/10 - Concerns raised about the wording of Acrobatic Manoeuvre. New wording adopted with mechanics changed slightly.
23/5/10 - After the Army playtest results it was suggested to change Acrobatic Manoeuvre to work on Special Attacks also. Change voted & accepted.
26/5/10 - ERB cost recommendation of 90-100. Adopting 110 for playtesting.
26/5/10 - ERB question species of Metahuman. Added how Metahuman was derived to her Bio.
31/5/10 - 1st Playtest suggests increasing move to 6 in light of her being an Olympic level athlete. Move of 6 adopted.
31/5/10 - 1st Playtest suggests allowing Insane Partnership to work on opponent's insane figures also. Not adopted.
31/5/10 - 1st Playtest suggests removing the targeting limit of Insane Partnership, so that the figure taking a turn can attack whom ever they wish. New version Insane Partnership now gives HQ the turn when other Insane figures reveal an OM.
31/5/10 - 1st Playtest suggests making the bonding occur whenever HQ has a OM turn, instead of only if she misses the attack. New version Insane Partnership now gives HQ the turn when other Insane figures reveal an OM.
31/5/10 - New suggestion to make Harley's bonding to allow her to take a turn when other Insane figures reveal an OM. Insane Devotion adopted.
6/6/10 - Suggestions that Comic art was too pervy & not the best rendition. Photoshop'ed comic pic to be less pervy & Photoshop'ed another suggested pic to vote upon. More Photoshoping of second pic led to the final pic that the majority seem happy with.
10/6/10 - Suggestion to make mini background the same as the comic. Not enough support for the change.

[IAmBatman]

Interesting stuff! :-) I really like the theme of everything. There might be a few bugs to work out in some of the powers, though.

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately attack the same enemy figure with one figure with the insane personality you control that is within range of that enemy figure.

"Defender" just doesn't sound official to me, and "with the X personality" is the official precedent for dealing with personalities.

SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK

The big problem with the bomb SA is that figures are not adjacent to spaces ...

[A3n]

Interesting stuff! :-) I really like the theme of everything. There might be a few bugs to work out in some of the powers, though.

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately attack the same enemy figure with one figure with the insane personality you control that is within range of that enemy figure.

"Defender" just doesn't sound official to me, and "with the X personality" is the official precedent for dealing with personalities.
Defender is the term used in the rule books, but I like your wordage better anyway.

SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK

The big problem with the bomb SA is that figures are not adjacent to spaces ...
What about figures on adjacent spaces? Would something like that work?

If it's too hard I can easily settle for targetting a figure instead of a space, I just thought it would have more of a bomb feel if it didn't have to be a figure you threw it at.

Cheers

[Spidey'tilIDie]

The Book of Harley Quinn

C3G DC Exclusive


http://www.modelpainter.com/images/171_HC_HarleyQuinn_2.jpg





The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the ??? set. Its model numbers are #?, ?, or ?.

_________________________________________________________________

Harley Quinn
Harleen Quinzel
HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
CRIMINAL
DERANGED
MEDIUM 4

Life: 4
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 4
All of this looks great! I could see Insane on her personality as well, but deranged is cool.

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking with her normal attack, you may immediately attack the same defender with one insane figure you control that is within range of the defending figure. Awesome! Love it! Perfect!


SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Lob 8. Attack 2.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures adjacent to the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 2 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking, roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll a 16 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card.
The only thing I am not sure about here is her having OM reveal. What is the purpose?

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in range of the attack, she does not receive any wounds from the attack.
Hmmm, not sure how I feel about this power. If I am understanding it correctly, no one with a Range of 1 can deal her any damage unless she whiffs defense? Sounds a little overpowered to me. Maybe if they could be able to switch to a SA if she moves away, then many could still effect her. I mean currently Superman would have a hell of a time wounding her. Does that really strike you as thematic?

[IAmBatman]

I think Spidey raises good points, but I think dropping Harley's defense to 3 is the way to go. She'll be a pain for Supes, but she'll whiff eventually on 3 defense (and a lot sooner than on 4). And she shouldn't hurt him much in the meantime.
A3n, I think "figures on adjacent spaces" may, in fact, do the trick there. I agree that I like it being different than the typical explosive attack mechanic.

[A3n]

SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Lob 8. Attack 2.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures adjacent to the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 2 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking, roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll a 16 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card.
The only thing I am not sure about here is her having OM reveal. What is the purpose?
I included it as a tie in with the Smilex glyph since it is basically a Joker thing :p.



ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in range of the attack, she does not receive any wounds from the attack.
Hmmm, not sure how I feel about this power. If I am understanding it correctly, no one with a Range of 1 can deal her any damage unless she whiffs defense? Sounds a little overpowered to me. Maybe if they could be able to switch to a SA if she moves away, then many could still effect her. I mean currently Superman would have a hell of a time wounding her. Does that really strike you as thematic?
What about if I changed it to move on any blanks rolled? (which from memory is a bit like one of the Flash's powers)


Cheers

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Oh, I like the movement, just not sure how I feel about the Range thing, I guess. I guess some options are a) allow movement if she blocks the attack, b) allow movement either way after attack, c) have her take only a leaving engagement attack then move X number of spaces and take no further leaving engagement or otherwise attacks (so for a possible wound, she would get phantom walk and ignore the attack), OR d) switch to blanks as we have already done this, plus still has possibility of getting hit if within range.

[IAmBatman]

I still think just lowering her defense to 3 would do the trick. I think a defense of 4 is too high for her anyway, especially given a defensive power.

[A3n]

Yep I can see dropping the defense to 3 being the fix & will do this & the other update tonight.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

She'll still be annoying for Superman this way, but one whiff should do the trick to just about get her killed, and a whiff isn't too hard to pull off with 3 defense. Not to mention, with only a potential move of 3, she won't be getting out of the range of much more than melee attacks.

[A3n]

She'll still be annoying for Superman this way, but one whiff should do the trick to just about get her killed, and a whiff isn't too hard to pull off with 3 defense. Not to mention, with only a potential move of 3, she won't be getting out of the range of much more than melee attacks.

Yeah it would be like, "Stand still so I can hit you!". :D

[whitestuff]

I love the Acrobatic ability. That is just great. :up:

Some possible comic art...

A
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/Gotham_City_Sirens_5.jpg

B
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/harley.jpg
She looks a little bit cold here... :shock:

C
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/harley_quinn_16.jpg

D
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/harley_quinn_01.jpg

I looked but couldn't really find any good pics where she is holding a bomb... :shrug:

[IAmBatman]

I like D and A ... B is a little too ... well ... you know.

[Griffin]

I like where you are going here A3n. I would kinda like to see the Bomb be a SA of 4 though, and since she only has one in her hand, I think it should be a one time use power.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I could go for it being one time use as well - if so, we should probably get a marker in there and model it more after the Airborne Elite's grenade.
I'd also want to see the D20 roll lowered, significantly, if it were one time use. And, yeah, boosted up to an attack of 4, maybe even 5?

[Griffin]

Do we really need to use a marker though? Thor doesn't have one, and I don't really want to keep modifying my wound markers.

[GreyOwl]

I say no marker.

[IAmBatman]

I only said marker because it's got a pretty clear predecessor in the AE's grenade. Thor, on the other hand, draws his ancestry from Atlaga, who has no such marker.
That said, I'm fine with no marker.

[Griffin]

I only said marker because it's got a pretty clear predecessor in the AE's grenade. Thor, on the other hand, draws his ancestry from Atlaga, who has no such marker.
That said, I'm fine with no marker.
Well now that you have justified your comment and decided against that original statement... I feel better. :p

[IAmBatman]

lol. Nice to have you around again, Griff.

[whitestuff]

Why only one attack? With only 4? :headshake:

She seems to be able to pull them out of thin air whenever she needs them...

[IAmBatman]

To be clear about my stance, I could go either way on this one. :-)
It is a big bomb, though ...

[Hahma]

She looks cool and fun A3n. :thumbsup:

Sorry I haven't been over hear, as I've been occupied discussing other stuff so to speak. :D

[Griffin]

Harley Quinn
Harleen Quinzel
HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
CRIMINALPYSCHOPATHDERANGEDINSANE
MEDIUM 4

Life: 4
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 3

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately attack the same enemy figure with one figure with the insane personality you control that is within range of that enemy figure.



Is there any way we can get HQ to be an Insane Psychopath like Joker?
I understand you want to avoid any wierd loop or confusion with the Insane Partnership special power, but surely we could find a way to word that power by using something like "one other figure you control" or "Harley Quinn cannot be chosen". I really want her to be immune to Smilex and also Poison Ivy. Plus, there are not that many candidates for the Insane personality, and I don't want her to be skipped.

Also, when you say "that is within range of that enemy figure", you are now talking about the enemy figure's range and line of sight. Wouldn't it be easier and more fun if you could just take a free turn with the chosen Insane figure? Sure it is a bit of a turn extension, but it is a less reliable turn extension than that of Mutant Mind Link, and I want to see HQ and Ivy, Joker, or Deadpool running the board together at some point. Let the Crazies have some fun. :twisted: I say just choose an Insane figure, and take a turn with them.

Here is my suggested wording for your power:

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.

[IAmBatman]

I like it.

[A3n]

Harley Quinn
Harleen Quinzel
HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
CRIMINALPYSCHOPATH
DERANGEDINSANE
MEDIUM 4

Life: 4
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 3

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately attack the same enemy figure with one figure with the insane personality you control that is within range of that enemy figure.



Is there any way we can get HQ to be an Insane Psychopath like Joker?
I understand you want to avoid any wierd loop or confusion with the Insane Partnership special power, but surely we could find a way to word that power by using something like "one other figure you control" or "Harley Quinn cannot be chosen". I really want her to be immune to Smilex and also Poison Ivy. Plus, there are not that many candidates for the Insane personality, and I don't want her to be skipped.
The intention wasn't to avoid the loop in the power (there are always words around that). The intent was to make her personality different to the Joker's but still accurate. I kind of view Insane & Deranged as slightly different. I would say their mental state is basically the same but to me Insane people are driven that way (or born I suppose). Where as Deranged to me is more of a choosing & comes more in degrees. Having said that I forgot about the Smilex not affecting Insane & yeah I could get behind her not being affected by Smilex. I like Deranged because it does set her apart, but I can also see the benefit of not introducing another personality. :shrug: I guess I'll go with what the majority feel on this one.
Also, when you say "that is within range of that enemy figure", you are now talking about the enemy figure's range and line of sight. Wouldn't it be easier and more fun if you could just take a free turn with the chosen Insane figure? Sure it is a bit of a turn extension, but it is a less reliable turn extension than that of Mutant Mind Link, and I want to see HQ and Ivy, Joker, or Deadpool running the board together at some point. Let the Crazies have some fun. :twisted: I say just choose an Insane figure, and take a turn with them.

Here is my suggested wording for your power:

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.

I didn't want to make it like other bondings where you are just giving turns away for the hell of it. What I was aiming for was more of "You don't need to worry about me sweetie, it's my Jokster boy with the big gun behind you have to worry about :D.". I get what you were saying about the range thing. So the question do we want to be able to give another figure their entire turn or just an attack? I could definitely get behind the whole turn IF the mechanic ensured that their movement was more in-line of aiding HQ, but that would be messy & too wordy. So I am not sure about giving away a full turn. I really wanted her to be the "distraction" whilst the Insane one is coming up behind, but I suppose by still limiting the attack to the same figure as HQ might come close enough to achieving the intention.

So then there are 2 choices, what do others think -
I would amend the original "Attack only" wording to look like:
INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may, if possible, immediately attack the same enemy figure with one figure you control that has the Insane personality.

Or the "Free turn" wording:
INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.


Now the bomb issue. This is another where I am happy to go either way. So what does the rest of the group want?

A bomb available to use each turn (low attack 2-3),
A bomb available each round only (med attack 3-4), or
A bomb available only once per game (high attack 5)?


Cheers

[Griffin]

- Free Turn

- Once Per Game Bomb (high Attack Of 5)

[Hahma]

"Free Turn

- Once Per Game Bomb (high Attack Of 5)"

Agreed

How about this?

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, if Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.

[IAmBatman]

Free Turn

Once Per Game Bomb (high Attack Of 5)

I think the turn bonding is almost a necessity for issues raised in the Colossus thread. Attacking only on another unit's turn can raise all sorts of game play questions that can get messy really quickly mostly involving what sorts of before, during, and after attacking powers are eligible for use in that situation.
Actually, a bit of a sidebar, but I believe Griff has planned someone in the criminal faction that can attack on someone else's turn (Masterminds, I think). That might be something we want to avoid there as well ... though I think the power allowing them to attack happens on the card of the attacking unit and I don't think they have any before/during/after attacking powers on their planned card, so that might be the way around that one ...

[whitestuff]

If it is going to be a one off bomb... I don't think 5 is high enough.

I think the Free Turn will work.

[Griffin]

True Whitey... perhaps 7 or 8.

[Hahma]

True Whitey... perhaps 7 or 8.

Look...up in the sky..it's Harley Quinn. :p

[Griffin]

True Whitey... perhaps 7 or 8.

Look...up in the sky..it's Harley Quinn. :p
No... it's a big ass one time use bomb that is the size of the ship little Kal El flew in on. :p

[A3n]

"Free Turn

- Once Per Game Bomb (high Attack Of 5)"

Agreed

How about this?

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, if Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.
I get what you are saying here to ensure it's not an endless loop of turns, but that wording doesn't seem quite right. It sounds almost like the attack must follow the revealing of the OM. Maybe this might work:

If Harley Quinn revealed an Order Marker this turn and does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.

If it is going to be a one off bomb... I don't think 5 is high enough.

I think the Free Turn will work.

What about 6 & within 2 spaces of the bombed space? Like:

SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Lob 8. Attack 6.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 space of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking, roll the 20-sided die.
If you roll a 16 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.

Cheers

[A3n]

Actually, a bit of a sidebar, but I believe Griff has planned someone in the criminal faction that can attack on someone else's turn (Masterminds, I think). That might be something we want to avoid there as well ... though I think the power allowing them to attack happens on the card of the attacking unit and I don't think they have any before/during/after attacking powers on their planned card, so that might be the way around that one ...

I have been thinking about this also & I don't think it is that big a deal if the ability is on the card of the figure taking the turn. You might just need to clearly state it occurs after the other figures turn or it ends the other figures turn immediately. I think with either of those clauses it should work fine.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

I like where we're at on this one, and I like the increased area of effect on the one off bomb with an attack of 6. The one thing I'd suggest is lowering the following D20 roll to about 14. She only gets to use it once, so make it worth her while.

[Griffin]

Hey A3n, can you put up your most recent ideas and favored direction on the front page? That is just so much easier to keep up with. You are the guy leading and driving the ship, so if you like something or if you want to change something, you have every right and responsibility to update the front page, cause if you don't, then I am assuming that your favored direction is on the front page. Thanks.

[A3n]

Hey A3n, can you put up your most recent ideas and favored direction on the front page? That is just so much easier to keep up with. You are the guy leading and driving the ship, so if you like something or if you want to change something, you have every right and responsibility to update the front page, cause if you don't, then I am assuming that your favored direction is on the front page. Thanks.

Done. I was waiting for opinions first, but hey I get with the update.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, you roll the D20 once for all figures in the blast range and it either affects them all or none of them, right?
Anyway, regardless of the answer to that, I think she's ready for an initial playtest, personally. :-)

[A3n]

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, you roll the D20 once for all figures in the blast range and it either affects them all or none of them, right?
Anyway, regardless of the answer to that, I think she's ready for an initial playtest, personally. :-)

That is the intent but after re-reading it, it probably could be more succinct. I will look at rewording it soon, family time beckons (in a loud female voice;)).

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Enjoy! :-)

[A3n]

What about this:

SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Lob 8. Attack 2.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 space of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After all attacks have been resolved, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

What about this:

SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Lob 8. Attack 2.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After all attacks have been resolved, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.Cheers

I fixed a typo above. Is there official precedent at all for "after all attacks have been resolved"?

[Griffin]

There are a few things that I would like to stream line on this card, and the Order Marker removal in the Bomb is one of them. Can we just get rid of that? I don't think it is necessary, and there is a heck-ov-a-lot-a text on this card right now.

[IAmBatman]

Your thread updates are definitely a much better template than mine. :-) Well done.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Whole turn.

Attack once of 6.

[NecroBlade]

Acrobatic Maneuver might need to be changed. It makes her virtually invulnerable to melee, which could be extremely frustrating for certain armies.

[Griffin]

Acrobatic Maneuver might need to be changed. It makes her virtually invulnerable to melee, which could be extremely frustrating for certain armies.

One thing at a time. Have you answered the current poll?

[A3n]

Early on Spidey wasn't sure about the OM removal, I explained my reason for adding it, there wasn't any further discussion about it. Now Griff has suggested it again as a means to reduce the text. So what are everybody else's thoughts?

Should we remove the OM removal (& the "Smilex" name) from the bomb?

Acrobatic Maneuver might need to be changed. It makes her virtually invulnerable to melee, which could be extremely frustrating for certain armies.


Yes but when they do hit she is going to crumble very fast since for a melee attack it means she has whiffed the defense. It's the same as the One Shield Defense power really, just with a movement thrown in.

Cheers

[NecroBlade]

Except that you can engage a OSD figure with multiple figures and beat on him mercilessly. With AM you give up every attack after the first one that misses.

[A3n]

Except that you can engage a OSD figure with multiple figures and beat on him mercilessly. With AM you give up every attack after the first one that misses.


That's the same sort of thing that happens with Spidey Sense also?

[Griffin]

I guess we are just moving on, or you (A3n) are willing to juggle several topics at once, so I say we remove the OM removal aspect. It is text heavy, clunky, and I don't particularly like the theme (though I do understand it). I think the removal will be another step towards trimming this card down to fun simplicity and a user friendly low learning curve.

[A3n]

I guess we are just moving on, or you (A3n) are willing to juggle several topics at once, so I say we remove the OM removal aspect. It is text heavy, clunky, and I don't particularly like the theme (though I do understand it). I think the removal will be another step towards trimming this card down to fun simplicity and a user friendly low learning curve.

AT this stage I am happy to try to juggle the separate issues as long as people start having their say.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

I could go either way on the OM removal ... On one hand I like it being a little bit more than just a bomb, but on the other hand I do see the need to trim text on this card, and that seems the most likely place.
So count me in favor of removing the OM removal unless we find a better place to subtract some text.

[A3n]

In an effort to keep the forward movement on HQ, the 2 most recent questions raised about HQ are as follows:

Should the OM removal stay for Smilex Bomb SA?
And, Is Acrobatic Manoeuvre too powerful?

I have taken the OM removal part out of the Bomb Special Attack & updated as per first post in thread. For those that missed it this is what it was:
SMILEX BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Lob 8. Attack 2.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 space of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.
I don't think AM is too powerful. She only has 3 defence dice so she won't move far. It's similar to One Shield Defense with a bit of Spidey Sence thrown in. Sure she is going to be fairly hard to hit on occasions but she ain't running far so you would just try again. It's like she is backflipping all over the place & you just keep swinging until you finally land one. You know that when you do land that punch you are going to hit her pretty face, pretty hard. This to me is the fun of her character, & without it I would have to rethink the whole character. I did playtest her before posting, (obviously that before the bomb changed) & sure she went toe-to-toe with Batman for a while but when bats hit her he laid 3 wounds first hit & 2 the next, & it was lights out HQ. In short I definitely not in favour of changing AM any further.


Cheers

[GreyOwl]

My votes:

Leave the Order Marker removal in there, and remove it later if playtesting proves it to be too powerful. But just in case it doesn't prove to be too much, I think it's very thematic.

AM - I like it as is.

[Hahma]

I'm fine with Smilex OM removal if it fits and isn't making the card too cluttered looking. If it's a one time deal the OM removal aspect would likely want her to use it early in the round to maximize it's effectiveness. Though if there was no OM removal, she would be more flexible as to when to use it. But even if she uses it near the end of the round vs. several opponents, even if the OM removal wasn't a big deal at that point, she could still dish out a nice bang.

I'm fine with Acrobatic Maneuvers. I like the idea of her doing back flips to evade. It would be mostly effective at the extreme of the attacker's range so that even one shield could get her out of the mess w/o a wound. The big problem will be for melee hero opponents, b/c if she even moves one space away with a roll of 1 shield, then she avoids wounds. She basically has to whiff vs. melee attacks to take wounds. We'll have to see in playtesting, she might be one of those annoying units that takes forever to test b/c they keep avoiding wounds. :)

[IAmBatman]

Just to reiterate/vote more officially here:

I'm in favor of removing the OM removal part of the Smilex Bomb unless we remove text from somewhere else. There's too much text on the card right now.

I'm in favor of keeping the Acrobatic Maneuvers unless the initial playtest shows it to be too powerful - that's what the initial playtest is for, after all.

[A3n]

Demo card in first post has been updated with all the text leaving the OM removal still in there. See for yourself if it's cramped or not.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

It's cramped. It's one thing to put up with this much text on someone like Magneto ... Harley, though, should read a bit more light and fun! :-P

[Griffin]

It's cramped. It's one thing to put up with this much text on someone like Magneto ... Harley, though, should read a bit more light and fun! :-P
I completely agree! This card should have a very fun and easy to read text. This card needs streamlining IMO, and the removal of the "OM removal" is a good solid step towards that.

[whitestuff]

I disagree.

If we have the room, I see no reason not to use it if it leads to the desired outcome. You only have to read the ability once a game so I say leave it as is (maybe shift it to the bottom as once it is used you don't need to read it). I like the Smilex theme too much to loose, especially because of word length.

The acrobatics is great as is. Playtesting will show if it is too much.

[Hahma]

I disagree.

If we have the room, I see no reason not to use it if it leads to the desired outcome. You only have to read the ability once a game so I say leave it as is (maybe shift it to the bottom as once it is used you don't need to read it). I like the Smilex theme too much to loose, especially because of word length.

The acrobatics is great as is. Playtesting will show if it is too much.

I agree with Whitestuff on this one. For me, if it fits and it's thematic I'm fine with it no matter the cost of the card or level of the character. I mean Toad, Poison Ivy, Pyro and Angel aren't expensive or powerful characters, but they have pretty full text to make the character thematic. To me, if it were a difference of having the entire extra power there or not, that would be the real difference in how clean and fun the card looked. Like Whitestuff said, you only get to use the power once and then don't have to look at it again. It's simple and not complex at all as it's only an area of effect bomb attack that is basic to any level of game play and then you just roll the d20 for each effected figure and remove a random OM if possible. Very easy to get through without having to strain to figure anything out.

That said, after looking at the card again, I think it should still have the Lob part in there like a grenade. I mean, it's one thing for her to pitch it 5 spaces, but I've thrown grenades and I don't buy that she's going to be able to throw that bomb to any level in height or over any height structure. It should be the same as the Airborne Elite IMO. In fact, without that, I would vote no to passing this card.

[A3n]

That said, after looking at the card again, I think it should still have the Lob part in there like a grenade. I mean, it's one thing for her to pitch it 5 spaces, but I've thrown grenades and I don't buy that she's going to be able to throw that bomb to any level in height or over any height structure. It should be the same as the Airborne Elite IMO. In fact, without that, I would vote no to passing this card.

:oops: My bad. That wasn't left out intentionally, Sorry. Fixing Fixed now.

Cheers

[Hahma]

I kind of figured that A3n, as I didn't see any discussion regarding the removal of the Lob. I was just making sure it didn't get overlooked and moved on and other issues arise later because of the inadvertent omission. :D

[GreyOwl]

It's cramped. It's one thing to put up with this much text on someone like Magneto ... Harley, though, should read a bit more light and fun! :-P
I completely agree! This card should have a very fun and easy to read text. This card needs streamlining IMO, and the removal of the "OM removal" is a good solid step towards that.

Since when does the amount of text on a card reflect the personality or power level of the figure? :confused: I wasn't aware of that convention. Iskra Esenwein has a ton of text, for a 50 point figure. Sonya Esenwein also has a bunch, and she's a 45 point figure. Heck, she's the only figure in classic HS with 4 powers, and is also one of the lowest power-levels.

But regardless, if your goal is to make the text light and fun, removing the OM part will make virtually an insignificant impact. To accomplish the look that you want, you'll have to remove an entire power, at minimum.

[Griffin]

I like AM as is.

[Griffin]

So that is 4 in favor of keeping the OM removal and 2 in favor of getting rid of it.

6 in favor of keeping AM as is, and 1 against.

[A3n]

So AM stays as is & the OM removal is close to staying but could possibly locked down to a tie.

Cheers

[Hahma]

That's how it's looking to be.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

OM removal in, unless playtesting shows otherwise.

Leave AM the same unless initial playtest shows it should be lowered/beefed up.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

So that is 5 in favor of keeping the OM removal and 2 in favor of getting rid of it.

7 in favor of keeping AM as is, and 1 against.Fixed.

[A3n]

So that is 5 in favor of keeping the OM removal and 2 in favor of getting rid of it.

7 in favor of keeping AM as is, and 1 against.Fixed.

Okay, so the first post is where it's all at now. So if there aren't any further thoughts about HQ, may I ask one of you experienced playtesters to run the initial playtest for me please. (I will gladly do a playtest as part of the last playtest phase but feel the first one should be an experienced playtester.)

Cheers

[Hahma]

So that is 5 in favor of keeping the OM removal and 2 in favor of getting rid of it.

7 in favor of keeping AM as is, and 1 against.Fixed.

Okay, so the first post is where it's all at now. So if there aren't any further thoughts about HQ, may I ask one of you experienced playtesters to run the initial playtest for me please. (I will gladly do a playtest as part of the last playtest phase but feel the first one should be an experienced playtester.)

Cheers

I have to do the writeup for the Daredevil Army Test that I did this afternoon and then I can get on Harley either later tonight or in the morning. I was going to work on Punisher next but what the heck, he will definitely be the one I do after Harley. :D

[A3n]

So that is 5 in favor of keeping the OM removal and 2 in favor of getting rid of it.

7 in favor of keeping AM as is, and 1 against.Fixed.

Okay, so the first post is where it's all at now. So if there aren't any further thoughts about HQ, may I ask one of you experienced playtesters to run the initial playtest for me please. (I will gladly do a playtest as part of the last playtest phase but feel the first one should be an experienced playtester.)

Cheers

I have to do the writeup for the Daredevil Army Test that I did this afternoon and then I can get on Harley either later tonight or in the morning. I was going to work on Punisher next but what the heck, he will definitely be the one I do after Harley. :D

Thank you very muchly.

[Griffin]

Thanks Hahma. I try to do at least one playtest for someone else before my own, and usually I end up doing 2 or 3. It really helps to spread the luv. :D

[Griffin]

Oh A3n, can we Harley Quinn to be an Insane Psychopath for reasons that were previously expressed?

[Hahma]

Thanks Hahma. I try to do at least one playtest for someone else before my own, and usually I end up doing 2 or 3. It really helps to spread the luv. :D

Especially since Bats will be out of service for a quite a while with that silly wedding stuff. :D

[Griffin]

Thanks Hahma. I try to do at least one playtest for someone else before my own, and usually I end up doing 2 or 3. It really helps to spread the luv. :D

Especially since Bats will be out of service for a quite a while with that silly wedding stuff. :D
I am sure he will find some time to sneak out on his honey moon to fight some crime at night. Then again, this will be the first time he gets some... honey. So he may be a bit hard to find. ;)

~ Griffin, whose mind resides in the gutter

[Hahma]

Thanks Hahma. I try to do at least one playtest for someone else before my own, and usually I end up doing 2 or 3. It really helps to spread the luv. :D

Especially since Bats will be out of service for a quite a while with that silly wedding stuff. :D
I am sure he will find some time to sneak out on his honey moon to fight some crime at night. Then again, this will be the first time he gets some... honey. So he may be a bit hard to find. ;)

~ Griffin, whose mind resides in the gutter

Well besides the honeymoon, he's got lots of other traveling and visiting to do.

See, I can keep it clean...you guttermind you. Hey that can be a new class for the Crime Faction, the Guttermind. :D

[A3n]

Ok, to address this for Griffin, as he has raised it twice & nobody else commented but he would like to change the personality & class from Deranged Criminal to Insane Psycopath.

Griffins reasoning:
Is there any way we can get HQ to be an Insane Psychopath like Joker?
I understand you want to avoid any wierd loop or confusion with the Insane Partnership special power, but surely we could find a way to word that power by using something like "one other figure you control" or "Harley Quinn cannot be chosen". I really want her to be immune to Smilex and also Poison Ivy. Plus, there are not that many candidates for the Insane personality, and I don't want her to be skipped.

My initial response:
The intention wasn't to avoid the loop in the power (there are always words around that). The intent was to make her personality different to the Joker's but still accurate. I kind of view Insane & Deranged as slightly different. I would say their mental state is basically the same but to me Insane people are driven that way (or born I suppose). Where as Deranged to me is more of a choosing & comes more in degrees. Having said that I forgot about the Smilex not affecting Insane & yeah I could get behind her not being affected by Smilex. I like Deranged because it does set her apart, but I can also see the benefit of not introducing another personality. I guess I'll go with what the majority feel on this one.

Have your say
A). Deranged Criminal
B). Deranged Psycopath
C). Insane Criminal
D). Insane Psycopath

Or have you got something even better?

Cheers

[GreyOwl]

I choose C. I like Insane, because of the Smilex, but somehow she seems less "psycopathic" than Joker, so I'd like to reser Pyscopath for the worst of the worst.

[Griffin]

D she just doesn't belong in a criminal faction organization.

[GreyOwl]

D she just doesn't belong in a criminal faction organization.

In that case, maybe we could come up with an alternative that's not Psycopath or Criminal?

[Griffin]

D she just doesn't belong in a criminal faction organization.

In that case, maybe we could come up with an alternative that's not Psycopath or Criminal?
Good idea. Any thoughts?

Psychiatrist? That would leave one other Psychiatrist for sure, and that is Dr. Pyscho.

[Griffin]

I don't think I need this selling point, but I did just think about Deadpool being Insane, and Harley is clearly more Insane than he is.

Just trying to help justify the Insane personality a bit more beyond the selling point of just wanting Joker, Harley, and Poison Ivy to all be immune to Smilex.

[NecroBlade]

I prefer Insane, and if she doesn't belong as a Criminal I don't like her as a Psychopath (seems redundant to me).

[Griffin]

Another suggestion is Sociopath.

~ Griffin, just seeing which noodle sticks

[Griffin]

Oh, what about Lunatic?

[Griffin]

A3n, I know Bats and Hahma had said that they wanted Harley to be Insane, so that is at least 5, and that is majority.

I am more interested now in what people want for a Class.

We have
A) Lunatic
B) Psychiatrist
C) Psychopath
D) Sociopath
E) Criminal
F) Deviant

[Griffin]

Personally I like F. Go redundancy. 4 posts in a row. :poorpost: Sorry.

[Hahma]

Not sure if she's a psycopath (http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath_2.htm)

Insane Misfit ?

[GreyOwl]

Deviant?

[Griffin]

Not sure if she's a psycopath (http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath_2.htm)

Insane Misfit ?
That was a very poor definition and explanation of a Psycopath. You can look it up on Wikipedia or the Dictionary, but it is an individual who lacks empathy and social/normal morality, but can still appear outwardly as a fully functioning person. They usually have a habit or deep need to subject others to their own desires and will either with brutality, sex, murder, etc. They can not be completely cured, though there is medicine to help with empathy which theoretically could divert the unmoral behaviors before they occur, because the lack of empathy seems to be the first step in exacting their will on others.

Don't ask me how I know so much about this stuff....

Anyways, Harley, by definition could be a Psychopath. I say could, because it is currently unknown whether a person can become a Psychopath or if they have to be born one. Most Professionals agree that a person has to be born one, and in a court of law, you have to be 18 years old to be classified as a Psychopath, but also have a recorded history of the behavior dating back to before you were 15.
Also, the fact that Harley can function and appear in normal social environments much better than Joker can, she would qualify more as a Psychopath, though neither of them were born that way.

[Griffin]

Deviant?
I like that. Put me down for Deviant. :D

[Griffin]

I changed mine to F, Deviant. :D

[Hahma]

Deviant works.

[IAmBatman]

I prefer Misfit. It's more ... fun. And Insane all the way.
I don't mind her as an Insane Criminal either, though. I really don't think Criminal Unique Heroes are really going to get all that much benefit out of Criminal synergies - they'll mostly go to Crimelords, Masterminds, and their associated squads.
There will be some, though, sure, like the one on Riddler's card, but I kind of like Harley working well with Riddler.
So, yeah, put me down for Insane Criminal with Insane Misfit as my backup. :-)

[IAmBatman]

Oh, and sorry about the whole out of commission for playtesting due to wedding stuff thing. :-P I promise I won't use this excuse again next year!

[Griffin]

That is 3 for Deviant and 1 for Criminal.

[Hahma]

Oh, and sorry about the whole out of commission for playtesting due to wedding stuff thing. :-P I promise I won't use this excuse again next year!

Yeah, that would be like someone calling off work because their aunt Phillis died....again. :D

[A3n]

That is 3 for Deviant and 1 for Criminal.

I'm still on the fence myself. I don't think Criminal is a complete fit (nor psychopath), but when I see deviant I only think of sexual deviants (must be Griffin's guttermind :p).

I honestly don't know what I prefer here.

Cheers

[Hahma]

That is 3 for Deviant and 1 for Criminal.

I'm still on the fence myself. I don't think Criminal is a complete fit (nor psychopath), but when I see deviant I only think of sexual deviants (must be Griffin's guttermind :p).

I honestly don't know what I prefer here.

Cheers

What about Misfit?

[A3n]

That is 3 for Deviant and 1 for Criminal.

I'm still on the fence myself. I don't think Criminal is a complete fit (nor psychopath), but when I see deviant I only think of sexual deviants (must be Griffin's guttermind :p).

I honestly don't know what I prefer here.

Cheers

What about Misfit?

Actually I was chewing that over when I first read your suggestion & by the time I decided to post I plumb forgot all about it. But YES! I like it.

I vote Misfit. Will you change from Deviant to Misfit?

Cheers

[Hahma]

Then I'm back to Misfit as well, I really do like it better than Deviant.

[Hahma]

2 Misfit, 2 Deviant (with Bats digging Misfit a little too) and 1 Criminal

[Spidey'tilIDie]

What about Anarchist? She seems to me to be all about destroying the order of society.

[A3n]

What about Anarchist? She seems to me to be all about destroying the order of society.

Now that is really good too. :frustrated:

[Griffin]

2 Misfit, 2 Deviant (with Bats digging Misfit a little too) and 1 Criminal

I will switch with the tide as well and change mine to Misfit. That works well enough for me. :up:

So 3 Misfits, 1 Deviant, and Bats as a possible Misfit but for now 1 Criminal.

[Griffin]

What about Anarchist? She seems to me to be all about destroying the order of society.

Now that is really good too. :frustrated:
I don't think that is too true to the character really. Anarchists are people with an ideal about how life is fulfilled and fair without order or government.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχίᾱ anarchíā, "without ruler") may refer to any of the following:

"A social state where order and individual responsibility prevail."
"No rulership or enforced authority."[1]
"Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder."[2]
"A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."[3]
"Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere."[4]
"Acting without waiting for instructions or official permission... The root of anarchism is the single impulse to do it yourself: everything else follows from this." This seems appropriate to me.

[Griffin]

Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχίᾱ anarchíā, "without ruler") may refer to any of the following:

"A social state where order and individual responsibility prevail."
"No rulership or enforced authority."[1]
"Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder."[2]
"A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."[3]
"Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere."[4]
"Acting without waiting for instructions or official permission... The root of anarchism is the single impulse to do it yourself: everything else follows from this." This seems appropriate to me.
"I'll do anything for you Mr. J" That seems pretty darn submissive to me...

[Griffin]

My point is, though she may disrespect the law, like all villains do, that doesn't qualify them as Anarchists. Like I said, it is an ideal that one must live by; that no one person should have rule over another to have a fulfilled and fair life.

[Griffin]

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in range of the attack, she does not receive any wounds from the attack.I am not sure about this highlighted part. I think your intention is that the attack/attacker must still be able to target her, however just referencing "range" is not enough. According to the rules, it takes two things to attack, "range" and "Line of Sight". Not to mention engagement rules, and not being able to attack a non engaged figure while the attacker is engaged.
There are too many scenarios that this power doesn't cover.

Scenario 1) Harley rolls 3 shields against an adjacent Green Lantern. She moves 3 spaces, and she is still "in range of GL's current ranged attack" but he is engaged with Hulk. Could Harley still take damage from the attack?

Scenario 2) Harley rolls 3 defense dice against a non-adjacent Green Lantern. She moves 3 spaces, and she is still "in range" though she is no longer in GL's clear sight. Could Harley still take damage from the attack?

Scenario 3) Harley rolls 3 defense dice against a non-adjacent Darkseid's Omega Effect. She moves 3 spaces, and she is still "in range" though she is no longer in DS's clear sight. Now DS doesn't need clear sight to attack a figure. Could Harley still take damage from the attack?

Scenario 4) Harley rolls 3 defense dice against Huntress' special attack while she is exactly two spaces away. She moves 3 spaces, and she is still "in range" though she is no longer in range of the modified attack. Could Harley still take damage from the attack even though she is no longer in range of the modified form?

And there are more...

I am not saying that all of these questions are unanswerable, I am merely asking (sorta) if you are willing to proceed with a power that has so many FAQs in it's future.

My suggested change:
ACROBATIC MANEUVER
WhenAfter rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When After moving Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in range of the attack within 4 clear sight spaces of the opponent's figure, she does not receive take any damagewounds from the attack.- My first change was to better determine the timing of things. "When rolling" to me, is not as clearly timed as "After rolling", and we recently did the same thing to another card... I just can't remember which one.

- The word "immediately" again just helps with timing and keeping the reader on track as to when to implement things.

- The first part of this line, I just moved things around a tad to actually save some space, and it reads better in terms of timing issues.

- The second part of this line is a bit controversial. By having a static limit on the spaces (range) and the clear sight, we can avoid a lot of FAQs and confusion. Also, she can now either move just out of 4 spaces from the attacker, or possibly hide to avoid the attack, and I think that is kinda cool. Now if she is punched with a melee attack, and she moves two spaces and is still within clear sight, she may take some damage, but hopefully, that will only help settle the nerves of those (and there were several) of us who were concerned about her being too powerful against melee units. And Honestly, if you think about it, if she can only move by rolling shields, she is still rolling shields, which still blocks skulls. :) So if the power kicks in and she moves but can't avoid the damage, she can still use the shields that helped her move in the first place. :D

- I also based the end of the that sentence (referencing damage) off of Spiderman.

[Griffin]

And here is the cleaned up version of what I am proposing:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving Harley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer within 4 clear sight spaces of the opponent's figure, she does not take any damage.

[whitestuff]

I've seen HQ described as a Henchgirl before...

[A3n]

And here is the cleaned up version of what I am proposing:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After movingHarley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer within 4 clear sight spaces of the opponent's figure, she does not take any damage.

I don't like it & probably for the reasons you said I wouldn't. I haven't got time to analyse it completely but it does change the whole intent & I would probably just prefer to go with a spidey sense that has movement if we can't make the original work.

Cheers

[Hahma]

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Harley Quinn @ 120 points

C3G CHECK LIST FEEDBACK FORM
- Theme/ Does it pass, if not, list your Theme Check observations. Pass
- Mirror/ Does it pass, if not, list your Mirror Check observations. Pass
- Bonding/ Does it pass, if not, list your Bonding Check observations. Pass
- Synergy/ Does it pass, if not, list your Synergy Check observations. Pass
- Power/ Does it pass, if not, list your Power Check observations. Concerned about Acrobatic Maneuver. Comments in body of test sheet.

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
(Be sure to list what official units you used and what BoV map you used per section below.)
-
Heavy Hitter/ Does it pass? Pass
All tests done on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map

Vs Mariko (110) – Harley wins on T3R3 with 2 wounds. She used the Smilex Bomb early to put 1 wound on Moriko and removed OM3. After that, they duked it out and AM bailed Harley out long enough to finish Mariko off.

Vs. Tandros Kreel (120)– Tandros Kreel wins on T2R3 with 3 wounds. She threw the bomb early again and only rolled 1 skull which he blocked and then only rolled 10 for Smilex effect. He whiffed vs. a 2 skull attack and rolled 1 shield vs. a 2 skull attack to take his 3 wounds from her. Whiffing happens and that’s what it took to take her down. Her AM bailed her out of course, again getting the match into round 3, but her low attack isn’t overpowering and lets a decent opponent stay around long enough to survive her.

Vs. Toad (95) – Harley won with 2 wounds on T1R3. Toad had initiative in first round, so for her to use Bomb, it wouldn’t have happened until he only had OM3 and X left, so she avoided him in order to use it in second round to get best chance of removing OM from his card. So after he won initiative in R2 and she defended with a 2/2 attack, she took advantage of AM to leave engagement and then threw the Bomb on her first turn of R2. He took 2 wounds from a 3/1 attack but Smilex roll of12 didn’t effect him. He gave her a Tongue Lashing to bring her adjacent and lower than him, but a 3/1 attack let her avoid attack with AM. He did put 2 wounds on her with a 2/0 attack, but she returned the favor on the very next turn with 3/0 attack that killed him.

Vs. Pyro (120) – Pyro won with 2 wounds on T2R2. HQ threw the F Bomb early for a 3/2 attack to put 1 wound on Pyro, but Smilex roll of 2 didn’t effect him. She avoided a wound with AM from Living Flames and then put another wound on him with a 3/2 attack. Having to get adjacent to him for her attack, allowed Pyro to use his Engulf 11 and he rolled a 20 to put a wound on her, bypassing AM. Then he attacked with LF but AM got her away. She had to move adjacent to attack him again but missed and on his next turn, he misses with an Engulf roll of 10, but she whiffed vs. a 4 skull attack from Living Flame and she died.

Vs. Kaemon Awa (120) - Kaemon Awa won with 3 wounds on T4R1. She whiffed on his initial 2 skull attack from 7 spaces away. HQ then thew the F Bomb for a 4/1 attack to put 3 wounds on KA, but Smilex roll of 11 had no effect on him. KA moved adjacent to her to make sure that even if she rolled 3 shields vs. his first QR attack, she'd still be in range of his second one. She used AM go move 1 space from first attack and then whiffed on second attack that was a 2 skull roll to put her to rest. As with the Krav, Agent Skahen and WOA, it's great when you roll that one shield to avoid attacks, but it's not so great when you whiff.


Squad/ Does it pass? Concerns about parameters of Acrobatic Maneuver.

Played on Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh map

Vs. Stingers x 2 (120)– Stingers won on T4R2 with 3 Stingers remaining. She whiffed early on with a 2 skull attack, taking her first 2 wounds. Stingers weren’t going oblige her by getting clumped up too much together, so she threw the F Bomb to affect 2 of them and had a nice roll of 4 skulls to kill them both. She avoided wounds with either regular blocking or in conjunction with AM and took out 1 more Stinger when she had height advantage before she whiffed again vs. a 2 skull attack to die.

Okay, I ran into some questionable situations where on a couple occasions, she could have used AM to get out of LOS with a tree in the way, but was still in range. I played it with the way it is written but wondered if it might need changing. I guess the only way to explain it that she’d still take wounds even if out of LOS would be that she got hit while doing her backflip, but that’s kind of inconsistent with her avoiding wounds just by getting out of range.

I’d suggest that the power need the addition of “or clear line of sight” to be consistent.

Actually, here’s a suggested change to the wording:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent’s figure, for each shield rolled you may move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in clear line of sight of the attacking figure or in original range of the attack, she does not receive any wounds from the attack.
-
-Army Test 1/ Does it pass?

[GreyOwl]

Are you counting me as a vot for Deviant? I was just brainstorming back there. Out of what I've read so far, I'll vote for Misfit.

[Griffin]

And here is the cleaned up version of what I am proposing:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving Harley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer within 4 clear sight spaces of the opponent's figure, she does not take any damage.

I don't like it & probably for the reasons you said I wouldn't. I haven't got time to analyse it completely but it does change the whole intent & I would probably just prefer to go with a spidey sense that has movement if we can't make the original work.

Cheers
I am looking forward to hearing why Spidey Sense would be better suited for Harley than this version of Acrobatic Maneuver. For the record, I think it captures the theme of what you were originally looking for pretty well. Not perfectly, but well enough to see that she is clearly hopping out of harms way.

[IAmBatman]

And here is the cleaned up version of what I am proposing:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving Harley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer within 4 clear sight spaces of the opponent's figure, she does not take any damage.

I don't like it & probably for the reasons you said I wouldn't. I haven't got time to analyse it completely but it does change the whole intent & I would probably just prefer to go with a spidey sense that has movement if we can't make the original work.

Cheers

First off, put me down for Misfit now. I can go with that for sure.
Second off, I like Griff's change here for clarity, but with a slight tweak ... 4 spaces is just too many. She's never, ever going to escape a melee attacker this way unless she has Thorgrim's spirit, height advantage, and rolls all 5 shields. So I'd rather see it be 2 clear sight spaces. That way she can roll 2 shields, move 2 spaces, and be out of range of it. It's a little less effective against melee, but the trade off is that it's a lot more effective against range.
In fact, if I'm reading it right, any time that a figure from any sort of significant range attacks her, as long as she rolls a shield, she's ignoring that attack. This version would definitely be much more beefed up against range.

[Griffin]

And here is the cleaned up version of what I am proposing:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving Harley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer within 4 clear sight spaces of the opponent's figure, she does not take any damage.

I don't like it & probably for the reasons you said I wouldn't. I haven't got time to analyse it completely but it does change the whole intent & I would probably just prefer to go with a spidey sense that has movement if we can't make the original work.

Cheers

First off, put me down for Misfit now. I can go with that for sure.
Second off, I like Griff's change here for clarity, but with a slight tweak ... 4 spaces is just too many. She's never, ever going to escape a melee attacker this way unless she has Thorgrim's spirit, height advantage, and rolls all 5 shields. So I'd rather see it be 2 clear sight spaces. That way she can roll 2 shields, move 2 spaces, and be out of range of it. It's a little less effective against melee, but the trade off is that it's a lot more effective against range.
In fact, if I'm reading it right, any time that a figure from any sort of significant range attacks her, as long as she rolls a shield, she's ignoring that attack. This version would definitely be much more beefed up against range.I like all of that, especially the hard to hit from range aspect. 8)

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, for each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving Harley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer within 2 clear sight spaces of the opponent's figure, she does not take any damage.
Done. :up:

[IAmBatman]

I think that will actually end up being slightly more powerful than the current version (just slightly) and less confusing in the long run. What's not to like about that, A3n?

[Griffin]

One more change, Harley is a Metahuman. She was made that way by Poison Ivy's seeds. That is why she is so acrobatic, like in a metahuman way. That is how she was able to jump off of a rocket that was soaring towards the moon and still survive.

[IAmBatman]

Do you have any source support for Harley being a metahuman? I want to avoid another Catwoman Metahuman debacle. :-P

[Griffin]

Do you have any source support for Harley being a metahuman? I want to avoid another Catwoman Metahuman debacle. :-P
She called that in my DC encyclopedia, and also on Wikipedia. Here is the DC online Encyclopedia's list of Metahumans (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Metahumans), but she is not mention on the list. However, that list is very much incomplete.

[IAmBatman]

Well she has superhuman agility and strength and immunity to all toxins (going by wikipedia here as well), so that would qualify her as superpowered and thus a metahuman by the definition we've previously agreed on.

[Griffin]

Yep. I am 100% sure she is a Metahuman.

[A3n]

Yep 100% agree with Metahuman.

The suggested power completely changes the mechanics of the power. I was envisioning Harley scrambling away from a ranged attack but struggling if the attacker (of the ranged attack) was close. (Like she is flipping, spinning & jumping away with a trail of bullets following her until she can't flip, spin or jump anymore, & SPLAT!). I know it was really hard for an adjacent figure to hit her, but she only had an attack of 3 so she wasn't going to cause too much damage & the max movement would have been 3 spaces so she wasn't going too far anyway. Having said that I can't think of any wording that word better alleviate your concerns about the "range of the attack". Hahma's suggestion is the best we could come up with I think & be still close to the original intent.

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent’s figure, for each shield rolled you may move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in clear line of sight of the attacking figure or in original range of the attack, she does not receive any wounds from the attack.



Cheers

[IAmBatman]

My take on cleaning that up a bit with lots of help from Griff's last write up, but with the same mechanics:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent’s figure, but before placing wound markers, you may use Harley Quinn's Acrobatic Maneuver. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving Harley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in clear line of sight of the attacking figure or within original range of the attack, she does not take any damage.

[Griffin]

My take on cleaning that up a bit with lots of help from Griff's last write up, but with the same mechanics:

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent’s figure, but before placing wound markers, you may use Harley Quinn's Acrobatic Maneuver. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver, she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving Harley Quinn with her Acrobatic Maneuver, if she is no longer in clear line of sight of the attacking figure or within original range of the attack, she does not take any damage.Thanks for noticing all of the little things I did to clean up the timing and clarity of the power. :)
With that said though, this red part is just awful to look at. "original range" really.... come on guys, we are better than that. :poorpost:

A3n, Hahma's suggestion doesn't and I repeat, doesn't solve all of the FAQ problems that I brought up earlier. My suggestion for you quite honestly is the best wording so far.... not trying to toot my own horn, but it is true. ;)

[IAmBatman]

What if we made it a straight up LOS thing? Deleted the wording in red and kept everything else the same? Would that work for you, A3n?

[A3n]

I really don't like the possibility of moving out of engagement with a melee figure & still taking the hit. So I suppose if you don't think "range of the attack" or "within original range of the attack" will work it should be something more official (but with still a little twist). (I don't really see the issue as range is officially part of the game). So anyway what about this (which I suppose nullifies Hahma's playtest - sorry mate):

ACROBATIC MANUEVER
If Harley Quinn is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-10, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 11-20 you may immediately move Harley Quinn up to 2 spaces if she can end the movement not adjacent to any opponent's figures. If Harley Quinn was able to move using Acrobatic Manuever she takes no damage and does not take any leaving engagement attacks, otherwise roll defense dice normally.

Cheers

[Griffin]

I would be fine with that if that is what people want, but a lot of theme is gonna get lost and that just makes me sad. :(

[IAmBatman]

Meh, not a fan of that change. I think I prefer what's currently on the front page to that.

[GreyOwl]

Same here, I like the theme of the first one.

[A3n]

Same here, I like the theme of the first one.
I agree, but Griffin keeps raising he has an issue with "in range of the attack" :shrug:.

[GreyOwl]

I think his point is valid, but it can probably be addressed through rewording. First of all, I think it needs to mention that she moves before inflicting wounds, because since attack and defense dice have been rolled, one might be able to argue that she receives wounds before moving (which isn't the intent). Then the range part needs some rewording.

How about something like the below. It might still need some tweaking, but I'm hoping it sparks ideas. I think it captures the same theme as yours, but without the problem of trying to word being within range before she moved.

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, ignore the attack. For each shield rolled you may move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, the attacking figure may attack Harley Quinn again, if possible. Acrobatic Maneuver can not be used more than once per turn.

[Griffin]

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, ignore the attack. For each shield rolled you may move Harley Quinn one space. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Harley Quinn has finished moving with her Acrobatic Maneuver, the attacking figure may attack Harley Quinn again, if possible. Acrobatic Maneuver can not be used more than once per turn.
That was on the right track until you get to the red. That could get messy with Double Attacks. Lets say Iron Man attacks her, she moves, he attacks again, and hits or doesnt' hit her, now Iron Man gets to finally complete his turn by attacking with his second attack????:confused: Not a fan of that. Not to mention, the last line says that "Acrobatic Maneuver can not be used more than once per turn". Whose turn exactly? It isn't hers, cause it is a defensive power. Are suggesting once per the attacker turn? This is just confusing.

I am gonna take some of what you have, and mix it with what I suggested a couple of pages back.

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down in a single move. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

There, I like that. It is simple and fun. The best mix of what I have seen on this thread so far. Sure we are loosing some of the theme of the range aspect, but it is a simple fun mechanic that doesn't require a D20, and you get the concept of actual Acrobatics in this power for the first time. What do you guys think about that?

[GreyOwl]

I think the once per turn is clear enough, it's once per turn. Any turn. But you do have a point about the double attack.

The only thing I'm not liking about yours is that it breaks the whole theme A3n was going for, which is she tries to flip away but sometimes can get caught and the attacker gets her anyway.

[Griffin]

I think the once per turn is clear enough, it's once per turn. Any turn. But you do have a point about the double attack.

The only thing I'm not liking about yours is that it breaks the whole theme A3n was going for, which is she tries to flip away but sometimes can get caught and the attacker gets her anyway.
It looks like A3n is willing to get away from that theme some though. Besides, the theme of her getting caught can be found in her rolling a shield or not.

[A3n]

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down in a single move. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

There, I like that. It is simple and fun. The best mix of what I have seen on this thread so far. Sure we are loosing some of the theme of the range aspect, but it is a simple fun mechanic that doesn't require a D20, and you get the concept of actual Acrobatics in this power for the first time. What do you guys think about that?
I like this a lot, but will try to incorporate the not being able to move part in & if it doesn't stick then we can definitely come back to this so just bear with me.

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure and before placing any Wound Markers, you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down in a single move for each shield rolled. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If Harley Quinn was able to move using Acrobatic Maneuver she takes no damage and does not take any leaving engagement attacks, otherwise roll place Wound Markers normally.

Cheers

[Griffin]

A3n's wording:
ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure and before placing any Wound Markers, you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down in a single move for each shield rolled. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks. If Harley Quinn was able to move using Acrobatic Maneuver she takes no damage and does not take any leaving engagement attacks, otherwise roll place Wound Markers normally.Cheers

What exactly changed other than just shuffling words around? Btw, I don't like the new shuffle, it honestly reads very strange with weird timing and going back and forth. What was wrong with the GO/Griffin/A3n combo? :reapershrug:

[A3n]

What changed is that if she can't move, regardless of how many shields she rolled she still has to apply the wounds. So it's not just a straight One Shield Defense thing. That's all I was trying to achieve here. As I said if it doesn't sit then I am happy to use the other but I want to try floating this version first.

Cheers

[Hahma]

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against an attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down in a single move. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.I like that one the best. It's the cleanest w/o jacking around with range or LOS. It has enough theme for me envisioning her flipping around after avoiding wounds and it gives her kind of a leap ability on her defense like Daredevil has Grapple-Line from his defense. She can bound up to 18 levels higher with the right map and rolling 3 shields, so that can be fun.

During playtesting, she had to whiff most of the time to take wounds anyway and sometimes was able to avoid an attack by getting out of range, but it was kind of messy in some cases. This new version will let her get out of range on occasion of second or third attacks from either a double attack hero or from squads, both melee and ranged. With the ability to move a single space up to 6 spaces higher per shield, even if she is still in range of a second or third attack, she may be at height advantage for any subsequent attacks and giving her a better chance of rolling a shield.

[A3n]

Ok it seems that might be the easiest option, I just want every one to consider how powerful it is now though. This would give her something like an 85% chance of evading all attacks. Maybe we should at least limit it to normal attacks only? Also maybe we should limit the height to 4 also (she is only 4 in height herself)?

Like:
ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 4 levels up or down in a single move. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Cheers

[Hahma]

That could work better A3n as we probably don't want her cost to go too high up.

[IAmBatman]

I'm happy with what we have there mechanically. I think this is at the right place and I like the normal attack and 6 to 4 changes a lot. :-) Good stuff.
I do, however, think the wording of this sentences needs tweaking:

you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 4 levels up or down in a single move.

It doesn't read quite right to me right now ... It might need to be broken into two sentences, sadly. Something like:

You may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. This space may be up to 4 levels above or below Harley Quinn's original placement.

It's loose ... but I think it gets us closer.

[Griffin]

I'm happy with what we have there mechanically. I think this is at the right place and I like the normal attack and 6 to 4 changes a lot. :-) Good stuff.
I do, however, think the wording of this sentences needs tweaking:

you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 4 levels up or down in a single move.

It doesn't read quite right to me right now ... It might need to be broken into two sentences, sadly. Something like:

You may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. This space may be up to 4 levels above or below Harley Quinn's original placement.

It's loose ... but I think it gets us closer.
It is loosely based on Drake II's grapple arm, and I think it reads better than what you are suggesting. However, if you want it to read better, just look at Drake and do a bit of writting if you still think it needs it. For me, I am hopefully done writing for Harley, this was a tough power to write and still keep enough theme to make everyone happy. I do think that it is cool that the best version born was a Griff/GO/A3n joint. Go C3G Team collaboration!

Oh and A3n, the changes are OK. Meaning I can live with height of 4 and normal attack stipulations, but I am not in love with it. I really wanted Batman to have a hard time hitting her with his Batarangs (and Darkseid's Omega Effect too, we need to start devaluing that thing :?), and her being an Acrobat at an Olympic level and a freaking Metahuman to boot, I wanted her to be able to jump well over her own height, it doesn't seem thematically correct otherwise. Like if Hulk (height of 6) were standing next to her, she could just barely clear his head, that would be cool.

[IAmBatman]

How about this, then?

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. She may move up to 4 levels up or down for each space of her Acrobatic Maneuver movement. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.


I think it's quite a bit cleaner.

[Griffin]

:ninja:

[Griffin]

How about this, then?

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space. She may move up to 4 levels up or down for each space of her Acrobatic Maneuver movement. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.


I think it's quite a bit cleaner.
I don't think it's cleaner. I like the current version better myself.

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 4 levels up or down in a single move. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

[IAmBatman]

"one space up to 4 levels up or down in a single move" reads like the verbal equivalent to something my dog does outside. :-P I would vote nay a thousand times if the wording on the card read like that.
I think you're lowering your own standards here, Griff. The wording here is not on par with your usual quality by any means.

[Griffin]

"one space up to 4 levels up or down in a single move" reads like the verbal equivalent to something my dog does outside. :-P I would vote nay a thousand times if the wording on the card read like that.
I think you're lowering your own standards here, Griff. The wording here is not on par with your usual quality by any means.
I think it is fine. But if you can show me how it is grammatically incorrect, I will submit to your higher understanding of the English Language.

[IAmBatman]

How about just:

For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 4 levels up or down

?

The "in a single move" is very confusing, IMO, because what constitutes a single move? Each space you move? If I roll 3 shields and I'm moving her 3 spaces, isn't the entire thing a single move? When I swingline Spidey for four spaces, I don't consider each space I move him to be a "single move," I consider the entire movement to be a "single move."
I believe in Drake's grapple arm power, it's also referring to his entire movement for the turn when it says "in a single move."

[Griffin]

How about just:

For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 4 levels up or down

?

The "in a single move" is very confusing, IMO, because what constitutes a single move? Each space you move? If I roll 3 shields and I'm moving her 3 spaces, isn't the entire thing a single move? When I swingline Spidey for four spaces, I don't consider each space I move him to be a "single move," I consider the entire movement to be a "single move."
I believe in Drake's grapple arm power, it's also referring to his entire movement for the turn when it says "in a single move."
OK, so the problem wasn't my grammar then :jerk: :p, it was clarity. I can certainly respect that, and I like the change. Good job, you have impressed me today. :D

[Griffin]

You are aware though, that the "in a single move" term is official right?

[IAmBatman]

It's official, yes. But misused by you in that write up, I believe, based on where else I've seen it used officially. :-)
Single move does not equal single movement space ...

[Griffin]

It's official, yes. But misused by you in that write up, I believe, based on where else I've seen it used officially. :-)
Single move does not equal single movement space ...
That sounds right to me.

[IAmBatman]

And I never said it was a grammar issue, I said it didn't read right. :-)

[Griffin]

And I never said it was a grammar issue, I said it didn't read write. :-)I never intended it to read and write. ;)

[IAmBatman]

Oye ... I had a rough night. And maybe a rough day today too, hard to say ...

[A3n]

Griffin convinced me of the to change the 4 back to 6 so I will do that. He also convinced me that it would be nice that it would work on SA's also but I am not convinced it's the best move for the game due to the fact that 1 shield in 3 dice is a 87.5% chance. Which I believe is too high if it's to affect all attacks. So I have updated the front page with the change.

Does this change require another initial playtest?

Cheers

[Griffin]

What exactly was updated, the text or the card on the front page?

Also, I don't think we need another full initial playtest, but if you A3n could run one army test and report, that could be enough to give us the Intel that we need.

[IAmBatman]

The purpose of the initial playtest is to determine whether the powers are working correctly and then to make changes accordingly, right? We've done that here. :-)
But ... since you did make changes, we probably do want to check and see how they went, so one army test would probably be a good way to go.
That should give us an idea of how her Acrobatic Maneuvers actually play.

[A3n]

What exactly was updated, the text or the card on the front page?

Also, I don't think we need another full initial playtest, but if you A3n could run one army test and report, that could be enough to give us the Intel that we need.
Just the text at this time. I didn't have enough time to change the card before work this morning. Maybe tonight.

Cheers

[NecroBlade]

AM is looking a lot better. Question on the Bomb, though...

BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Lob 8. Attack 2.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After all attacks have been resolved, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.

...which is it?

[Hahma]

Actually, I believe the Smilex Bomb stats are supposed to be,

Range 5 Lob 8 Attack 6. Which is updated on the card and not the original write up.

However, the original write up has been updated with the current Acrobatic Maneuver, but the card has the original.

A3n, make up our minds, you have two separate lists of powers there between that card and the write up below, it's confusing.:?:D

[A3n]

The Bomb is supposed to be 6, I updated the text but forgot to change the stats. Thanx for the catch. & sorry but I haven't had time to update the card yet. Hopefully sometime this weekend, but my real life is looking quite full this weekend - especially with having to go into work on Saturday (I am so looking forward to that).

Bomb stat fixed in first post.

Cheers

[NecroBlade]

Honest question, why 6 Range and not 5? Is she physically capable of throwing a bomb (grenade) farther than an Airborne Elite?

[IAmBatman]

Good point ... and it's a big bomb too, so it wouldn't be as aerodynamic.
A3n, you might want to take down the card until it's accurate. :-)

[Griffin]

I agree with Necro's point about the Range of 5. And I too do not like the cards up during the design phase, it is very confusing. :?

[A3n]

Agree with range of 5. First post amended.

Cheers

[Griffin]

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
If Harley Quinn revealed an Order Marker this turn and does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an enemy figure with her normal attack, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.It kinda bothers me that "Harley Quinn" is revealing the Order Marker instead of the player. And it also bothers me that she isn't even revealing it on this card, but rather on "this turn". It is difficult to write, but I think it needs a bit more tweaking to reach smoothness. I don't know if this is a perfect solution, but I don't want to leave you hanging with a critique and not a suggestion, so this is the best that I have:

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and after attacking with her normal attack, if Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds on an opponent's figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.

_____________________________________________________________



BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Lob 8. Attack 6.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After all attacks have been resolved, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.

I am not sure where you got this line from, but it isn't ringing any bells with me, and I don't like that it sounds like a term used from other games, but not Heroscape. My suggestion is to replace it with "After each affected figure has rolled defense dice, ".

BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Lob 8. Attack 6.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After each affected figure has rolled defense dice, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.

That just sounds more Heroscapey to me.


_____________________________________________________________



ACROBATIC MANEUVER
After rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure, if you roll at least one shield, Harley Quinn takes no damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

I don't know why I hadn't thought of this before, I do apologize, but the first line can be almost completely copied from Agent Skahen. And it shortens the text.

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When Harley Quinn rolls defense dice against an opponent's normal attack, one shield will block all damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

[A3n]

INSANE PARTNERSHIP
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and after attacking with her normal attack, if Harley Quinn does not inflict one or more wounds on an opponent's figure, you may immediately take a turn with one other figure you control that has the Insane personality. The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn.
I can live with that.


BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Lob 8. Attack 6.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After each affected figure has rolled defense dice, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.
Close...

BOMB SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Lob 8. Attack 6.
Choose a space to bomb. Any figure on the chosen space and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen space are affected. No clear line of sight is needed. Roll 6 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After all affected figures have rolled defense dice, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from each affected figure's Army Card. Smilex Bomb Special Attack may only be used once per game.
Fixed.

ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When Harley Quinn rolls defense dice against an opponent's normal attack, one shield will block all damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.
:thumbsup:

Cheers

[Griffin]

Excellent work dude. :thumbsup:

[NecroBlade]

Yes, well done guys. :up:

[Hahma]

Nice work fellas.

[Griffin]

I wonder what the ERB will think. :ponder:

[IAmBatman]

I'd love to know too ... if only there were a proposal for me to vote on. :-D

[Griffin]

I'd love to know too ... if only there were a proposal for me to vote on. :-DHa, no pressure right? :D

Well I think A3n recognized that a lot of changes have been made since the first playtest, and he wanted to run a couple army tests this weekend just to be sure that Harley is at a place he is comfortable with.

[A3n]

Yeah, I started a army playtest but got as far as round 3 before I had to take my boy to soccer, & now I am at work (on a Saturday :evil:) so hopefully I can finish it tonight.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Fair enough. :-) I'll keep watching.

[A3n]

Ok for my first official Playtest (which is only the Army Test):

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT HARLEY QUINN

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?
TEST 1
Map: Sidewinder
Units:


TEST 2
Map:
Units:


TEST 3
Map:
Units:


TEST 4
Map:
Units:


TEST 5
Map:
Units:

_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass?
Map:
Units:


_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map: The Broken Skyline
Units: Team 1: Harley Quinn, The Riddler, Joker, Poison Ivy, Two Face VS Team 2: Batman, Green Arrow, Flash, Plastic Man

Round 1
Figures move out on the battlefield only no attacks.

Round 2
Riddler removes OM3 off Batman with Riddle Me This.
Green Arrow wounds Poison Ivy 1.
Two Face wounds Plastic Man for 1.
Poison Ivy rolls Batman for 1 with Plant Animation.

Round 3
Team 1 win initiative, Joker’s Reorganised Chaos moves OMs from Batman & Flash to Plastic Man.
Plastic Man moves within 2 of HARLEY QUINN & puts 2 wounds on her.
HARLEY QUINN throws the Smilex Bomb amongst Green Arrow, Plastic Man & Flash, putting 2 wounds on Green Arrow & 1 on Plastic Man. OM removal failed, which was a real shame because otherwise it would have meant Team 2 would have lost their remaining 2 turns.
Joker puts 1 wound on Flash.

Round 4
Flash only puts 1 wound on Joker with his Fist Fusillade SA.
Riddler removes OM3 off Batman with Riddle Me This.
Green Arrow deals 2 wounds to Joker with height & Skill Shot.
HARLEY QUINN fails in attacking Plastic Man, which gives Joker a turn to also fail in his attack on Plastic Man.
HARLEY QUINN on turn 3 puts 1 wound on Plastic Man.
At this point the game felt like it was fairly even with luck slightly favouring Team 1. That was about to change…

Round 5
Turn 1 Flash kills Joker & Riddler. OMG Fist Fusillade SA was unstoppable. OM1 was on Riddler so Team 1 skipped a turn which meant Batman was finally free to take a turn but he failed with Batarang on both Poison Ivy & HARLEY QUINN. HARLEY QUINN failed to wound Plastic Man so Poison Ivy took a turn but couldn’t get close enough to Plastic Man to attack. On turn 3 HARLEY QUINN again failed to wound Plastic Man so Poison Ivy took a turn. Now at this point I would like to advise that HARLEY QUINN’s Insane Partnership doesn’t stop the use of special powers, so Poison Ivy tried to Seduce Flash but failed & then failed the attack on Plastic Man.

Round 6
HARLEY QUINN failed to wound Plastic Man again & Poison Ivy failed to Seduce Flash & failed the attack on Plastic Man.
Flash kills Poison Ivy with a Fist Fusillade.
Batman Batarangs 1 wound on each Two Face & HARLEY QUINN. HARLEY QUINN then buries Plastic Man. Then Flash seals the fate of HARLEY QUINN on the first punch of his Fist Fusillade.

Round 7
Two Face manages 1 wound on Flash before Green Arrow finishes him off with a Skill Shot.


_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass?
Map:
Units:


FINAL ANALYSIS:

As this is my first official playtest I really can't give a great analysis here, but Harley performed fairly well. The Smilex Bomb worked in causing wounds but for the once a game shot it didn't have a real thrill that might have happened if the OM removal worked (luck of the die maybe, or maybe it's too low a percentage :shrug:). I honestly didn't have as much fun with her as I did with my original concept but she was still very playable but the AM only came into effect once in the whole game as all other attacks on her were Special Attacks (if she was always up against SA the likes of Flashes Fist Fusillade then I would definitely say we should make the power effect them as well but at the moment I'm not sure).

Cheers

[Griffin]

First off I would like to say thank you A3n, and I can tell you did an excellent job. :up:

Now, Harley looks good, and I loved the synergies. I am ready to see AM work on Special Attacks... aren't we all? That is where Team 1 could have really used some help and support, avoiding those special attacks thrown at her. Also, I am very very very very much in favor of continuing to allow chosen Insane figures to use their special powers when helping out Harley.

If you want a vote to allow AM work on Special Attacks, you got my vote. :D

[whitestuff]

If you want a vote to allow AM work on Special Attacks, you got my vote. :D
And a second vote here. :up:

[Hahma]

Likewise, I'm for letting AM work vs. special attacks.

Great job with the playtest A3n.:thumbsup:

The Smilex bomb still did put some wounds on a couple figures, so it was good. If it removed OMs every time it was used, it would be too powerful and less fun when it did happen. Believe me, over the course of hundreds or thousands of times she will be used in the future, she will remove her fair share of OMs. I tested Thor a bazillion times with his God of Thunder Strike once per game attack and I missed wounding figures most of the time and that was able to affect a whole lot more than Smilex. I know that it was bad die luck and there will be times when he kills/wounds a ton of opponents with it. I've played Two-Face a ton and I can't tell you how many times he failed to Flip to be able to attack. It's a 50% chance and I've had games where he Flips 1 time out of 6 attempts, but then I've had games where he Flipped 3 times in one turn to get 3 attacks with height on someone.

The d20 powers are streaky and kind of disappointing when you miss, but oh so satisfying when you hit with them.:D

[A3n]

I propose that we remove the "normal" wordage from Harley Quinn's Acrobatic Maneuver so that it works for Special Attacks also.

The proposed change would look like:
ACROBATIC MANEUVER
When Harley Quinn rolls defense dice against an opponent's attack, one shield will block all damage. For each shield rolled you may immediately move Harley Quinn one space up to 6 levels up or down. When Harley Quinn moves using Acrobatic Maneuver she does not take any leaving engagement attacks.

In the army test I ran, the attacks on HQ went:
Green Arrow SA :skull::skull: to :shield::shield: - no wounds anyway would have just allowed her to move.
Plastic Man Norm :skull::skull: to 0 - HQ would have taken the 2 wounds either way.
Batman SA :skull::skull: to :shield::shield: - no wounds anyway would have just allowed her to move.
Batman SA :skull::skull: to :shield: (HQ +1 for height) - With wordage change HQ would have taken no damage here & been able to move.
Flash SA :skull::skull: to 0 - HQ would have taken the 2 wounds either way.
Harley would have been dead at the exact same spot in this Army test even if the wordage was changed to allow evasion of Special Attack's also.

So I will vote Yea plus the 3 pre-emptive votes means this has 4 votes so far.

Cheers

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Yea and I thought Insane figures were taking full turns? I'm definitely in favor of them being able to use all of their abilities.
And I'm with Hahma that I think the Smilex Bomb is just fine - in fact it seems you got lots of use out of it. :-)

[A3n]

Yea and I thought Insane figures were taking full turns? I'm definitely in favor of them being able to use all of their abilities.
And I'm with Hahma that I think the Smilex Bomb is just fine - in fact it seems you got lots of use out of it. :-)

Yeah Hahma convinced me, & it do a nice 3 wounds of damage :D.

& the vote is at 7 Yeas (I forgot Spidey's vote in the previous count) with Necro still outstanding. So it will pass, how long was it before I can propose the move to ERB (24 or 48 hours)?

Cheers

[A3n]

On a side note, from my playtest can somebody say whether she would pass at the 120. I think she performed her role within the team & she did 6 wounds - 3 with the Smilex Bomb, & the other 3 were all on Plastic Man (who is tougher than I gave him credit for before the game). This is the part of playtesting that I have no feel for, the units cost. I still couldn't say from that test if any of the others are worth their points. So any help here would be great.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

48 hours for any vote to pass, but hopefully Necro can help you out. :-)
I'd say Harley outperformed all of her teammates in what was, ultimately, kind of a bad match up for the baddies. If Joker, Riddler, Poison Ivy, or Two-Face had pulled more weight, they might have gotten through it. As it was, though, Flash eats mid-level heroes and there really wasn't a good match there for him unless Two-Face had managed to Heads You Die him, or Ivy had taken him out. None of those guys are defensive titans for sure.

[A3n]

48 hours for any vote to pass, but hopefully Necro can help you out. :-)

I was meaning the time after the initial playtest. Don't we have to wait XX hours before putting up the vote to take it to ERB?

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Oh, yeah ... hmm, I believe it's 24 hours after the initial playtest before you can propose the ERB, yeah.
But I might be misremembering.

[A3n]

Oh, yeah ... hmm, I believe it's 24 hours after the initial playtest before you can propose the ERB, yeah.
But I might be misremembering.

But I can't make another proposal until the previous one is closed, correct?

[Griffin]

Oh, yeah ... hmm, I believe it's 24 hours after the initial playtest before you can propose the ERB, yeah.
But I might be misremembering.

But I can't make another proposal until the previous one is closed, correct?
Yeah, 1 proposition at a time.

[NecroBlade]

I could care less if this one worked against specials, so move forward with whatever vote's winning, which I believe is yea.

[A3n]

The proposal for AM to work against Special Attacks also passes.

I now propose that I send Harley Quinn to the ERB.

Yea

[Hahma]

yea

[NecroBlade]

I like the new AM. Yea.

[Griffin]

yea

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

yea

[IAmBatman]

yea - which just leaves Whitestuff. :-) Time to change the thread title!

[whitestuff]

Yeth - I've been at the dentists if you can't tell...

[IAmBatman]

Nice pearly whites! :-D

[A3n]

Response from SD:


Stats seems great, but how is Harley a metahuman? Some development in the comics I don't know about?


I pm'ed him back with points about our earlier discussions on this & in the next response he didn't mention it so I assume he's ok with it now, but I think we should pre-emptively put that in the FAQ's.

- Smilex needs to be added to the attack's name.

Hope that helps! You didn't include a tentative point cost, but if you want, I can look her over and give you an opinion on a ballpark number when I have more time.


My fault there (& all of you also for not noticing it :p). Fixed now.

I subsequently pm'ed him back with 120 as our proposed cost. His response:
My initial reaction is that 120 points is too high. Except for the one turn per game that she throws her bomb, an order marker on Harley is mostly wasted. She's a melee attacker with a 3 attack, who may give a limited form of bonding, but only if she fails to inflict damage. Most of the time you'd be better off just taking a turn with whatever Insane figure you're hoping to bond Harley with. Her Acrobatic Defense is nice, but with a 3 defense and 4 life she's still no tank. Personally, I don't put a lot of value on figures that don't accomplish much except keeping themselves alive. I'd put her cost at closer to 90-100 points.

& I am feeling the same as SD with his cost. But I have always stated that costing is a definite weakness of mine.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

I could see 100 as a starting point ... sounds like we're solid otherwise. :-)

[A3n]

Response for Velenne:

I like her a lot. After going through the notes I have only two remaining questions:

How much does she cost?

The Bomb SA is currently worded to ignore elevations when it comes to damage. So someone standing on top of or bottom of a castle wall would be effected by someone on the opposite end getting bombed. Was this intentional? If not, could you say, "Choose a figure to attack. Any figure adjacent to the chosen figure and any figures adjacent to those figures are also effected..." Maybe it's too wordy that way and you've already gone though all the wordings and chosen the lesser of all evils. Or maybe I'm not understanding the current wording.

Other than those questions, I love it.


When I advised 120 was the our initial costing his response:

I think her acrobatic maneuver and repeatability of her special attack justify that cost.


So I pointed out that the bomb was a once per game attack & his response:
Dont' know how I missed that. I think I read in the changes that it had been taken away? :reapershrug: I don't know, but in that case I feel she's overcosted.


Cheers

[IAmBatman]

No real concerns there either, I don't think. 100 points? :-)

[Griffin]

I really think we should go 110 with her because of all three of her powers have so much great potential.

Double Activations with Insane figures
A bomb that is a special attack of 6, that could screw up anyone in the game
The ability to fairly easily avoid attacks.

I just think that she offers quite a few tools to an army build, and could be a real offensive problem in an Insane army, which is where she is likely to be drafted in. Also, with Joker at 190 points, it would be nice for Harley to "complete" him for a nice round total of 300.

[IAmBatman]

I can go with that. She certainly seemed to shine the most in the initial playtest.

[Hahma]

110 sounds fine.

[GreyOwl]

That sounds good to me, too.

[A3n]

Added the 110 cost to the first post & fixed up the "Smilex" title. I propose this baby move to playtesting phase.

Cheers

[Hahma]

yea

[IAmBatman]

yea.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

yea

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[whitestuff]

Yea

[Griffin]

yea

[A3n]

With my Yea that's 7, just waiting on Necro.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Yep ... saw him looking in on this thread, not sure why he hasn't voted. I'm sure he's just catching up on stuff, or something, though.

[NecroBlade]

DeceitfulBeauty said Harley's fine, so yea. :)

[IAmBatman]

Well, sure, if she says so. :-P I feel much better now.

[Griffin]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT HARLEY QUINN

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
I really felt like as an Olympic level athelet with Metahuman agility, she should have a move of 6.
I feel that with the Insane Partnership power, it would be fun if she could take a turn with any Insane figure in play. As if she is getting crazy people to do her crazy bidding whether they are on her team or not.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Not really against herself, but against her own Special Attack, Harley could easily affect herself with the bomb, and she would have to roll defense dice, but the way Acrobatic Leap works currently, she could only use that power against "opponent's attacks". Now I am glad that it works against normal and special attacks, but the way it is currently worded, she could not avoid her own Special Attack, and I think she should be able to take the risk of setting off a bomb nearby, and then trying to get away. If it works on all other special attacks and normal attacks, it should work on her own.

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
This line in the Insane Partnership power conflicts with the Joker's Wanna Hear Another Special Attack, "The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn." The reason it conflicts is because Joker's Special forces him to continue to attack until he no longer inflicts any wounds. There could be a number of future possible conflicts as well, and though we shouldn't just assume what lies in store for tomorrows powers, it is wise to avoid putting ourselves in the corner and not being able to create other cool powers in the future, just because they would conflict with this one. Also, over time, it will become easier for us to overlook things, and that is why the above line is dangerous now and to the future IMO. I suggets dropping it all together, and just allow the player to take another turn with an Insane figure and not have to worry about attacking the same figure and all.... just let em bond, it is pretty common in the game and wouldn't break anything, especially when Insane Partnership only works on turns in which Harley failed her dinky little normal attack anyways....

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass.

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass.

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass. I think that the fact that she is 110 and with Joker you could have an even 300 is absolutely awesome. I think that Harley will get lots of action, and I think that she will actually encourage Joker to get out of the start zone and play more, which is something that I have wanted since we first started playtesting him.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass.

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? YES

TEST 1
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley VS Fen Hydra (120)
Fen Hydra wins with 1 wound. (not being able to use the Smilex was disappointing)

TEST 2
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley VS Pyro (120)
Pyro wins with 1 wound. (I think she is currently overpriced, but that could be fixed by letting her use the Bomb once per round instead of once per game, though I have not seen her Bonding power yet and that could make a big difference...)

TEST 3
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley VS Two-Face (130)
Harley wins with 2 wounds. The Bomb opened up big for Harley, then TF's hit once with a normal attack, then she slapped him for the win.

TEST 4
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley VS Toad (95)
Toad wins with 3 wounds. This felt like a very close match up the entire time. That tells me that she is worth about 80-90 points without her Insane Bonding.


TEST 5
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley VS Migol
Migol wins with 4 wounds, one of which was a leaving engagement because Harley had him bottle-necked on height. Close match.
_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass? YES
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley VS Nakita Agents
Nakitas win with one Agent left. Harley picked one off early on with the bomb. The Agent couldn't use smoke powder because it was a special attack. Harley removes an OM from their card as well. Harley gets the initiative and kills an Agent on the ladder with a normal adjacent attack, and Harley didn't take any engagement strike. The last Agent put 3 wounds on Harley from height, then when Harley engaged her, Harley died due to engagement strike.

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES. Though the Insane Partnership was kinda pathetic in the since that to use it, you have to give her an Order Marker, attack with a normal attack, and then fail that pitiful little attack... all it really gives you is a movement bonus for Harley, because you end up taking a turn with a better Insane figure which you could do all of that by just giving them the Order Marker to begin with. All Insane Partnership really does is allow Harley to move up when taking a turn with an Insane figure.... this was kinda lame honestly. I really think that she should just be able to Straight up Bond with any Insane figure you control, otherwise it is a power that looks good on paper but isn't really all that usefull or for lack of a better term "smart".
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley, Joker, Poison Ivy, and Deadpool VS Mystique, Hawkgirl, Jean Grey, and Huntress
Deadpool advanced and met against Hawkgirl and Jean who had both taken the high ground entrance to the subway. Jean held Deadpool down while Hawkgirl swooped in and put three wounds on him. Hawkgirl and Dp traded blows for a bit as he healed some, then he finally managed to get out of Jean's grip, so he took a leaving engagement attack, and ran away towards their start zone. Hawkgirl followed him, but he managed to loose her in the tunnels during an initiative flip. Dp put three wounds on Huntress, but then Jean heroically threw herself off of the high entrance, used her Telekinesis to cushion her fall, and put a couple wounds on Dp. Then she held him down as he failed his attacks against her and Huntress. Then Jean tossed him to the ground and put another wound on him. That is when the initiative switched and Huntress moved in and shot him in cold dead blood.... Huntress now b lines it down the track towards Ivy, but when she gets there, she is flanked by Harley Quinn. She shoots at Harley, but misses as Harley does a back leap over Platform 5 and then throws a bomb at Huntress for the kill. Mystique intends on bringing in the fight, but Joker confuses Jean and she takes Mystique's place for the round. Jean gets herself back on height, and starts battling things out with Ivy. She tossed Ivy onto the platform so that she would be in range of her grip and throw, have to fall to get down or go backwards and down the ladder, and just out of range so Ivy couldn't use her Pheromones to cheat her way out of this fight. Ivy finally could move and took fallng damage. Mystique moved in and put a couple wounds on Ivy, then made a break for the ladder. Harley followed and activated Ivy while missing her attacks on the fast Mystique. Joker starts marching up and whistling The Saints Go Mauling In. Mystique kills Ivy, then Harley kills Jean. Mystique is engaged with Harley up top and continues to disengage each turn to force the weak Harley to engage her over and over. Luckily, Harley survived long enough for Joker to make his way up to help his little puddin pop. Joker used his Special Attack to put 4 wounds on Mystique before she killed him, then Harley and Mystique were left at one life point away from death each. Harley engages and survives, and gets the kill on Mystique who whiffed her defense against Harley's single skull.

Harley wins with three wounds. Balanced. :D
_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES, a very close game again, which means that she is perfectly balanced IMO, so perhaps we shouldn't change anything here after all.
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Harley and Joker VS Batman, Angel, and Isamu
Angel takes Batman for a ride to the top of the map. Harley goes into the tunnels and hits Angel with the bomb for 2 wounds. Batman swoops down into the shadows of the platforms but can't see Harley or Joker. Joker jumps out and runs towards Batman and shoots into the air. Angel engages Harley and Joker and puts one wound on Harley. Harley slaps him back and misses but Joker get angry and unleashes his tommy gun for a wound. Batman swings up and throws Batarangs putting a couple on Joker. Harley hits Angel and he blocks and flies away. Then Joker moves up and shoots at Batman for a wound. Joker tricks Isamu into getting into the fight, and he dies quickly to the Tommy gun, then Angel, then Batman takes a wound, then Joker takes another wound from evasive Strike and dies. Harley gets in Batman's face, but he has height advantage on the ladder, and the two go back and forth for two rounds until both are one away from death. Then Batman choked and Harley wins the big show!!!

Lots of fun, and everything was balanced. I still think that Harley should just be allowed to bond with Insane figures though. It wouldn't change much, other than give you the rare chance of occasionally wounding a figure with both Insane figures instead of just the one. And it would also allow the Insane figure to attack someone other than the figure that Harley attacked. This would really help make the power smarter IMO. As it is, when it kicks in, it really only lets you bring Harley along as you take a turn with the Insane figure.... I just don't see a whole lot of value in that, there is some, because it allows you to depend on Harley's staying power while being very flexible with your Order Markers for Insane figures... I would just like to see a bit more is all. Just straight up bonding. However, if we were to make that change, I don't believe the power level would have a significant increase at all, not when you consider how ineffective Harley is offensively. This change would just make her a bit more of a consistent tag along that you may get lucky with on her attack every once in a while.

[Griffin]

I updated the upper section of my form a bit more.

[Griffin]

Only one army test left to go, and honestly I am finding a few things about this card that need some tweaks.

[whitestuff]

Only one army test left to go, and honestly I am finding a few things about this card that need some tweaks.
That last army test looked pretty on the money...

[Griffin]

Only one army test left to go, and honestly I am finding a few things about this card that need some tweaks.
That last army test looked pretty on the money...
She is certainly balanced at 110 as is, that isn't my problem with this card. I put everything in my report though. I just finished the last test now, and I am updating the sheet immediately.

[Griffin]

Playtest done. :thumbsup:

[whitestuff]

Playtest done. :thumbsup:
I agree with you, she should have just a straight up bonding. Why would the figure she activates have to shoot the same figure she did? They are INSANE after all... ;)

Nice work on the playtesting Griff. I'd rep you if I could.

[A3n]

Excellent report Griff & they sounded like fun battles. Can I ask one question about this statement "As it is, when it kicks in, it really only lets you bring Harley along as you take a turn with the Insane figure" which is the crux of your suggestion to change the way it works, & I ask for better understanding, not because I am opposed to the change, but wouldn't you say that is thematic to Harley anyway?

If we all decide to change it that's cool with me, I just want to discuss it's thematic fit first. And even from a gaming perspective I think the fact that it's not a straight bonding plays more to strategic use of it & placing OM on her. It's more of a second chance than an actual bonding. Something like "hey batsy you wanna play, swing & miss, oh darn I missed but my Joker's gonna hit a home run." I know you said it was lame, but when I played it I actually thought of it more as a cool second chance & I was like "wait, it's not your turn yet, I'll try that again with Poison Ivy. :twisted:" (yeah I often talk to myself).

& I think you are right about the not making them only the same figure HQ attacked, which is a shame.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Well the thing about the whole "getting a second chance" is lame, and here is why. Why take a first chance with Harley just to fail and take a second chance with a better unit that should have just gotten the Order Marker anyway? Under the best circumstances, Harley is just moving along.

Reveal Order Marker on Harley
Move Harley
Fail her attack
take a turn with an Insane figureAll you really did was take a turn with the Insane figure and as a bonus, moved Harley up.

My point is, why even bother taking a turn with her, when her single attack of 3 and a range of 1 is all she has after her bomb? Why take the chance that you may get lucky and go "oh yeah, Harley managed to put one wound on someone" when you could have just given Ivy the Order and taken over their mind, or given it Deadpool and get those multiple attacks in, or taken a turn with Joker to crank that Tommy gun up. Using Harley as a buffer to those guys means that she may get a wound in and prevent you from using them altogether. It is much better to just put the Order Marker on Deadpool and ensure that he gets a turn, cause like I said, her little Range 1 attack 3 is lame and not something I would want to be stuck with for the turn just because she happened to land a wound.

All this power does really is bring her along most of the time, and then as a suck fest to you the player, she prevents you from using your better Insane figures. I say full bonding all the way.

[Hahma]

Okay, first of all, great report Griff. I'd rep you but I have already too recently:D

So as she is currently written, Harley seems balanced at 110.

Now if she were to get a bump in move to 6 as suggested (and rightfully so considering her athleticism and metahumaness) that may not seem like much, but it does add a bit to her mobility and ability to close in for melee attack, climb elevation and get herself into range of her Smilex Bomb.

What would a straight up bonding look like?

After revealing an OM on this card and taking a turn with HQ, you may immediately take a turn with any figure you control with the Insane personality that is within clear sight of HQ.

Or

After revealing an OM on any figure you control with the Insane personality and taking a turn with them, if HQ is within clear sight of that figure, you may immediately take a turn with her.

Or

After revealing an OM on this card and taking a turn with HQ, you may immediately take a turn with any figure with the Insane personality that is within clear sight of HQ.

Or

After any figure with the Insane personality reveals an OM and takes a turn, if HQ is within clear sight of that figure, she may immediately take a turn.



Now based on Griff's terrific playtest analysis she looks pretty balanced at 110 as she currently is written. Personally, I think that if her move got bumped to 6 and she got a straight up bonding power with another insane figure, I don't see how she could stay at 110. Heck, Prof X is 210 for being able to allow two mutants to activate per turn. Granted there will be more mutants available than Insane personalities, but still that can be pretty powerful. Also, I would hate down the road to have problems giving units the Insane personality that should have it, just because it would be too powerful when they got free activations from HQ or visa versa.

I may be wrong, goodness I've been wrong many a time, but I think the full impact of the suggested changes should at least be discussed. :D

[IAmBatman]

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
I really felt like as an Olympic level athelet with Metahuman agility, she should have a move of 6.
I feel that with the Insane Partnership power, it would be fun if she could take a turn with any Insane figure in play. As if she is getting crazy people to do her crazy bidding whether they are on her team or not.

I'm cool with a bump to move of 6. It sounds like that wouldn't be enough to bump her over 110. I agree we should shoot for 110 as her cost.
I disagree with her taking turns with other figures. Harley doesn't control the Joker, and he's as insane as can be. I certainly couldn't see her having some sort of mind control on enemy figures. Theme break.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Not really against herself, but against her own Special Attack, Harley could easily affect herself with the bomb, and she would have to roll defense dice, but the way Acrobatic Leap works currently, she could only use that power against "opponent's attacks". Now I am glad that it works against normal and special attacks, but the way it is currently worded, she could not avoid her own Special Attack, and I think she should be able to take the risk of setting off a bomb nearby, and then trying to get away. If it works on all other special attacks and normal attacks, it should work on her own.

If she was attacked with the special attack by an opponent's Harley Quinn figure, it would be an opponent's special attack! So, I think that this is an incorrect concern. That doesn't mean some misguided rules lawyers won't try to falsely abuse it, but it can be FAQ'd. Better than letting you trigger the power by shooting at your own Harley, in my opinion.

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
This line in the Insane Partnership power conflicts with the Joker's Wanna Hear Another Special Attack, "The chosen figure can only attack the same enemy figure that Harley Quinn attacked this turn." The reason it conflicts is because Joker's Special forces him to continue to attack until he no longer inflicts any wounds. There could be a number of future possible conflicts as well, and though we shouldn't just assume what lies in store for tomorrows powers, it is wise to avoid putting ourselves in the corner and not being able to create other cool powers in the future, just because they would conflict with this one. Also, over time, it will become easier for us to overlook things, and that is why the above line is dangerous now and to the future IMO. I suggets dropping it all together, and just allow the player to take another turn with an Insane figure and not have to worry about attacking the same figure and all.... just let em bond, it is pretty common in the game and wouldn't break anything, especially when Insane Partnership only works on turns in which Harley failed her dinky little normal attack anyways....

I agree with taking out the attack restriction.
I disagree with taking out the she fails her attack restriction.
Straight up bonding is done very often already. I think we should use opportunities like this to get creative and not fall into a rut.
I think it has plenty of strategic opportunity. It's not like Joker hits it out of the ballpark offensively either, IMO. What this does is gives you two chances when before you had one to get the damage done. Perhaps with Ivy it's not as effective as Ivy tends to offer a lot per OM that you'd rather get in, but with Joker? Absolutely.
And, like somebody said, we probably have more Insane figures coming out eventually. I'm pretty sure Carnage will be one, for instance.
This power, as is, also allows Harley, with the staying power of her defensive ability, to be a bit of a meat shield for Ivy and Joker - which is something they both need.

[Hahma]

And, like somebody said, we probably have more Insane figures coming out eventually. I'm pretty sure Carnage will be one, for instance.
This power, as is, also allows Harley, with the staying power of her defensive ability, to be a bit of a meat shield for Ivy and Joker - which is something they both need.

That was me.:D

Deadpool is Insane, Carnage can be Insane and I'd like to have Moon Knight be Insane (he has multiple personalities and was not able to be mind controlled by Korvac I believe with some Mind Control weapon. After he rescued the West Coast Avengers he said, "good thing he didn't shoot me a couple more times with that thing, I was running out of personalities." ) and I'm sure there could be others as well.

[IAmBatman]

Hobgoblin will probably be insane. The Ventriloquist is a possibility for insane.

[Griffin]

Here is the thing though, Harley is really weak offensively, so a double turn activation with Harley and one other Insane figure is not going to be very powerful at all.

Also, I liked the direction that Hahma was going in with this:
After revealing an OM on any figure you control with the Insane personality and taking a turn with them, if HQ is within clear sight of that figure, you may immediately take a turn with her.This would encourage me to take turns with her more often (as it is currently written, I don't want to waste a turn marker on her) and it would give her card a theme boost because she would feel a bit more like an Insane Tag-along instead of an Insane woman asking Insane people for "help".

[IAmBatman]

So basically it'd be an Insane Sidekick type of bonding?
I could get on board with that a lot faster than the traditional bonding angle.

[Hahma]

The biggest benefit for the bonding would be a free attack with the Smilex Bomb once per game. With one OM, there's a chance of multiple attacks from the Insane figure and a Bomb with a huge attack and the chance of removing OMs from the affected units. That can be a pretty devastating turn.

But with anything playtesting will show what's up, in this case, army tests with some Insane teammates will be a must.

[Griffin]

So basically it'd be an Insane Sidekick type of bonding?
I could get on board with that a lot faster than the traditional bonding angle.
Yeah, and I think that is a much better fitting theme than "Harley needs help" special power. You know?

[IAmBatman]

So basically it'd be an Insane Sidekick type of bonding?
I could get on board with that a lot faster than the traditional bonding angle.
Yeah, and I think that is a much better fitting theme than "Harley needs help" special power. You know?

I'd think it would bump her cost around 10-20 points minimum, though.

[Griffin]

So basically it'd be an Insane Sidekick type of bonding?
I could get on board with that a lot faster than the traditional bonding angle.
Yeah, and I think that is a much better fitting theme than "Harley needs help" special power. You know?

I'd think it would bump her cost around 10-20 points minimum, though.
I think we could leave her movement at 5 and change the Bonding, and leave her point value as is. She just isn't an offensive threat... it really wouldn't be worth much at all, maybe 5 points, but definitely not 10.

[IAmBatman]

She seemed balanced at 110 as is. Wouldn't she become a bit of a steal with that change?

[Griffin]

She seemed balanced at 110 as is. Wouldn't she become a bit of a steal with that change?Yeah, I think so. Honestly though, Raelin is a steal, Isamu is a steal, Marcu is a steal, Crixus is a steal, and others. I am fine with some cards being easy draft pics.

[IAmBatman]

I hope we're not making Raelins and Isamus over here. :-) (Though part of me thinks we already did that with Darkseid).

[A3n]

Ok here's the playtest from Lord Pyre:

Okay, I'm almost done. I just want to do another army test or two, for reasons which you will see... :p
But I want to get this to you, if you're waiting.


Theme Test: Pass
The only thing is that Harley feels a little weird without a gun, but she’s annoying, and that’s how she should be!

Mirror Test: Pass

Bonding Test: Pass
Joker, Ivy, and Deadpool, so far…

Synergies Test: Pass
Just her bonding, so nothing too big.

Power Check: Umm…
If Harley gets height, she is hard to take down. I can’t imagine fighting her with Raelin and defense glyphs. I think her ability should only work if she can end her movement not engaged to any opponents.

Fun Test: Pass
She’s a lot of fun to play, unless she whiffs defense on Batman’s first attack against her, hehe…

Fun Competitive Test: Pass
My goodness she’s annoying. But when she whiffs, she’s done for. Her battles against Alastair really show.

Drafting Test: Not so much…
There are two reasons to draft her that I see. Her bonding, and her bomb. Her bomb is once per game, and though great at taking out squads, it’s a dud more often then one may think. 6 attack is admirable, but Drake has that as a normal attack, and he’s the same price. No, he can’t attack everyone at once, but he can keep attacking.
And her bonding… I love the idea of her failing and Joker cleaning up her mess, but it’s pretty pointless. If you have Deadpool along, you’d always take a turn with Deadpool over Joker, unless he’s not in range or whatever. And if you have Deadpool, why would you put a marker on Harley? Pick Joker and Deadpool, but Harley really won’t help you all that much. After her bomb, she’s not too much of a threat.

Usage Test: Pass
Her bomb was used once per game, unless she died too quickly. Her dodge was used, heck, TOO MUCH! :p And the bonding is pretty useless, though thematic.

Strategy Test: Pass
I love her bomb, in my opinion that’s how a bomb in HeroScape should be. The AE’s grenades are pretty wimpy in many cases. :p
There wasn’t a whole lot of new strategy here, other then bomb positioning. The only other strategy it while fighting her, which is basically shoot her when no better targets are available, and pray she whiffs.

Map: Ravaged Road

Heavy Hitter Test: Pass
Harley can be devastating in a fight—if she’s lucky. As you can see, these results were all over the place. Everything depended on if Harley got a shield or not! But if Harley managed to gain height and keep it, it was a bit more in her favor. When rolling 4 defense, it’s hard to whiff—unless you’re a Deathwalker. ;)
(I didn’t keep track of the rounds for every playtest, sorry!)

Vs. Tandros
I: Tandros wins with 3 wounds. The bomb is a complete dud.
II: Harley wins with 3 wounds R3, T1. Bomb does 4 wounds, no markers.
III: Tandros wins with 2 wounds R3, T1. Bomb does 2 wounds, no markers.

Vs. Hydra
I: Hydra wins with 3 wounds. Bomb deals 3 wounds no markers.
II: Harley wins with 0 wounds. Bomb deals 3 wounds, no markers.
III: Harley wins with 1 wound R3, T3. Bomb deals 2 wounds, no markers.

Vs. Laglor
I: Harley wins with 1 wound. Bomb dealt 3 wounds, “X” marker.
II: Laglor wins with 4 wounds R2, T3. Bomb deals 3 wounds, no markers.
III: Laglor wins with 4 wounds R2, T3. Bomb deals 2 wounds, no markers.

Vs. Alastair
I: Harley wins with 2 wounds. Bomb deals 4 wounds.
II: Alastair wins with 2 wounds R1, T3. Harley doesn’t have a chance to throw the bomb.
III: Alastair wins with 1 wound R2, T2, a One-Hit KO!!! Bomb deals 0 wounds, takes off “1” marker.

Vs. Kaemon Awa
I: Harley wins with 3 wounds. Bomb deals 3 wounds.
II: KA wins with 0 wounds R1, T3. Slaughters Harley before the bomb is dropped.
III: Harley wins with 0 wounds R3, T1. Bomb deals 0 wounds, “X” marker. Harley got height, and KA couldn’t break through her 4 defense.




Squad Test: Pass

Vs. Stingers x2
I: Harley wins with 0 wounds.
I didn’t spread them out enough, the bomb affects a lot more then you might realize. She killed four with her bomb, and easily dispatched the last two.

II: Stingers win with 1 loss R2, T2.
The complete opposite. I charged forward with only 3 this time, and kept them spread out. Once in position, Harley had a few unlucky rolls and that was that.

III: Harley wins with 0 wounds R4, T1. I tried spreading out the Stingers, but she still managed to catch 3 of them. The Stingers couldn’t break her defense, so she won.




Army Test:

Harley, Joker, and Deadpool
Vs.
Batman and Superman

Hehe… this game was certainly interesting…
Round 1, everyone moves up, and that’s it.
Round 2, Joker puts all markers on Batman. Harley sees her chance to bomb ‘em both right away, so she takes the chance. 4 skulls! …And Batman counters, and Superman blocks. At least she rolled for the marker! Takes one off of Batman… and it’s the “X”. Batman’s turn, he attacks Harley, and with the 1 wound she had from the counter, she whiffs and he kills her. Harley loses her turn, Bats puts a wound on Joker and Deadpool. Joker shoots at Bats but misses, and then Deadpool heals with the “X” marker.
Round 3, Team BS (Which is basically what this game was, hehe) wins initiative. Superman flies forward. Deadpool shoots Superman and misses. Bats does two more damage to Joker, so Deadpool retreats to protect him, dealing one wound to Bats. Bats then finishes Joker.
Round 4, Deadpool runs up the sides “stairs,” and shoots at Superman, hoping to get lucky and finish him before he does too much damage. Deadpool misses. Superman then flies around Deadpool onto height, and kills Deadpool in a single hit.

I barely got to use Harley, and her bonding ability which I wanted to test didn’t come into play. So this was fairly in conclusive.


Test 2 (With changes to Harley’s bonding):

Harley, Poison Ivy, Deadpool, and Deathreavers x1
Vs
Agent Carr, Otonashi, Microcorp x2, Krav Maga Agents, Nakita Agents, and Phantom Knights x1

Round 1, nothing much happens except the armies move forward onto the road.
Round 2, Ivy kills 1 Microcorp with her plant animation, Harley moves forward again, and the Microcorp deal 2 wounds to Harley.
Round 3, Deadpool kills 1 Nakita and 1 Microcorp. Carr finds his chance to grab height on Deadpool, and gives him 3 wounds. Ivy uses her plants to kill another Microcorp, and Deadpool heals with the “X.” Harley is avoiding everything, trying to get a clear shot at the starting zone. The Reavers are tying down the agents who are trying to finish Deadpool.
Round 4, Carr attacks Deadpool, hoping to finish him, but misses. Ivy then seduces him, and as a double blow to that team, Harley gets in range of the starting zone and chucks the bomb. Nine figures are affected, including one of my Reavers. Unfortunately I only roll 1 skull, and the KMA, 2 Microcorp, and a Knight survive. It kills one of my own Reavers, and a single Knight. I fail the roll for order markers. The KMA, now free of the Reaver, rush Ivy to get Carr back, but Deadpool protects her with his wisecracks, and takes 2 wounds. Deadpool kills a KMA, and Harley returns to the battle to take out a Microcorp. The Knights try to take out Deadpool, who has 1 wound left, but fail, then he retaliates, also fails, but heals 1.
Round 5, The 2 Knights decide to switch targets and rush Ivy, dealing 2 wounds, also leaving the tree which would have gotten them the next turn. Ivy attacks a Knight with her normal attack but fails, and then Harley kills 1 KMA. The Knights deal 2 more wounds to Ivy. Deadpool comes to her rescue, and completely fails, in a humorous Deadpool fashion. Harley also fails her attack on the remaining KMA. The KMA shoots Harley again, dealing one more wound. Deadpool kills 1 Knight finally, and Harley attacks the last Nakita and misses. Deadpool is now fully healed from the “X.”
Round 6, in a surprise maneuver, Carr jumps onto height to kill the last Knight who was trying to finish Ivy, which causes him to lose his turn. The last Microcorp attacks Harley, but she dodges. Deadpool runs forward, and simultaneously shoots the last Microcorp and Otonashi for the win.


Team Insano wins with Deadpool at full health, 3 wounds on Harley, 4 wounds on Ivy, and 3 dead Reavers. Also a new friend that Ivy made, Carr.

This was a great game. I played with my brother so it’s a bit more realistic. Deadpool almost went down pretty quickly, and Ivy could’ve died at any time, but Deadpool protected Ivy with his wisecracks, and the Reavers tied down the agents who would try to take out Deadpool. All the while, Harley is getting into position to chuck the bomb, or just acting as another Reaver, giving support, taking out any agents who might take a turn soon. Harley never got a marker on her, but that was expected. After her bomb, she’s not too much of a threat, more of an annoyance. She stayed alive simply because there were better targets. But two attacks (Or 3, in Deadpool’s case) each turn did seem to help a bit. If we keep it like this, a slight point raise might be good, because the extra turn seemed a bit much, since through 90% of the game I was using Deadpool or Ivy. My brother suggested a dice roll to see if you could use her, but I don’t want to add more to the card, and another dice roll is probably unneeded.

Thematically, I thought I’d like her original power better, but now she seems kinda like a lame sidekick who never gets full attention because she’s in the shadow of better people. Which it what she is, haha! The only thing I don’t like is that she seems much better with Deadpool than Joker, but that’s a minor thing.


As a suggestion for the new bonding, it could be something like "Follow the Leader," because I can just imagine Deadpool, Joker and Harley acting like little kids, following each other while shooting people.