The Book of Yellow Lantern (Thaal Sinestro)

[IAmBatman]

The Book of Yellow Lantern (Thaal Sinestro)

C3G DC WAVE 4
FIGHT AGAINST FEAR

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_YellowLantern-Sinestro_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_YellowLantern-Sinestro_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_YellowLantern-Sinestro_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_YellowLantern-Sinestro_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Crisis set.
Its model number and name are #055 / Sinestro._____________________________________________________________ ____

Character Bio - Once considered the greatest of the Green Lanterns, Sinestro grew weary of the arrogance of the Guardians and struck out against them. Endowed with an ability to inspire great fear, Sinestro forged the anti-matter energies of Qward into an entire corps of Yellow Lanterns - the Sinestro Corps (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30921)! Together with his army of Yellow Lanterns, the former champion of Korugar is a universe wide terror and the greatest foe of the Green Lanterns!
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:

N/A
Marvel:
N/AC3G:
As an Insurgent, Sinestro benefits from Yellow Lantern (Arkillo)'s (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30217) Insurgent Motivation.
An adjacent Manhunter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36131) can replenish Sinestro's Yellow Power Battery with the Yellow Power Charge special power.Synergy Benefits Offered

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As an Insurgent, Sinestro may be sacrificed to activate Yellow Lantern (Arkillo)'s (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30217) Insurgent Motivation.
As a Yellow Lantern, Sinestro may place Order Markers on his card, to allow an initiative boost via Lyssa Drak's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47422) Book of Parallax special power.
As a Yellow Lantern, Sinestro may allow a Sinestro Corps Soldier (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30921) to take a turn with its Tactical Formation special power.________________________________________________________________ _

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
Figures with the Fearless or Insane personality do not reduce defense when defending against Yellow Lantern Thaal Sinestro's Force of Fear Special Attack. Current figures with the Fearless or Insane personality include: Arkham Inmates (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37269), Carnage (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40110), Creeper (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32589), Daredevil (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30297), Deadpool (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29561), Firefly (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39999), Floronic Man (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39098), Green Goblin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31354), Harley Quinn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30305), Hawkman (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31491), Hugo Strange (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39219), Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29548), Joker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28606), Joker (II) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38384), Mad Hatter (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=35532), Mister Zsasz (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40164), Poison Ivy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1055278), Ragdoll (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40224), Scarecrow (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=34784), Scorpion (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=38911).
In official Heroscape, figures with the Fearless or Insane personality include: Axegrinders of Burning Forge (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=25214), Earth Elemental (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29625), Eltahale (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33379), Frost Giant of Morh (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33386), Moltenclaw (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33385)-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial Playtest: Griffin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1087165&postcount=32)
Second Playtest: Scapemage (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1097372&postcount=141)
Third Playtest: McCrimson (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1098748&postcount=142)

[A3n]

Love Sinestro.

YELLOW POWER SHIELD
Anytime Sinestro is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, instread instead of rolling defense normally, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card and ignore that attack.

Weren't you one of the people against the "normally" wordage?

That's all I got looks great.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Love Sinestro.

YELLOW POWER SHIELD
Anytime Sinestro is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, instread instead of rolling defense normally, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card and ignore that attack.

Weren't you one of the people against the "normally" wordage?

That's all I got looks great.

Cheers

Thanks for noting that typo! :-) Fixed.
The wording here is based directly off of Hal Jordan's Green Power Shield, which is based somewhat off of Spidey-Sense.
Spidey-Sense references "roll defense dice normally."
I think you can roll defense dice normally and it's not confusing.
Attacking normally can be confusing, though. Maybe "roll attack dice normally" could work, but even then there are so many powers that modify normal attacks and so many special attacks out there that it's not cut and dry the way rolling defense dice is.

[Hahma]

Great looking Sinestro Bats. I love the subtle differences between him and GL. I've got nothing to add as far as changing anything as most of him is based off Hal's card and the Special Attack is nice and offers the player choices in how bad do they want to kill someone at the risk of draining their own battery. :thumbsup:

[NecroBlade]

I don't really have much to say on this one. Not a character I know anything about. FoF is really powerful, but somewhat limited by battery power (to the point you may be "afraid" of using it :rimshot:).

[IAmBatman]

Ha!
I think the Special Attack will get a lot of use, but there will be some nice Fearless and Insane figures to counter it (like Hal Jordan, Daredevil, Dwarves, Joker, Harley Quinn, etc.). The Battery marker restriction to multiple use means you'll likely only do a double/multiple attack with it if you're desperate to take someone out before you can be attacked again.

[A3n]

Love Sinestro.

YELLOW POWER SHIELD
Anytime Sinestro is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, instread instead of rolling defense normally, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card and ignore that attack.

Weren't you one of the people against the "normally" wordage?

That's all I got looks great.

Cheers

Thanks for noting that typo! :-) Fixed.
The wording here is based directly off of Hal Jordan's Green Power Shield, which is based somewhat off of Spidey-Sense.
Spidey-Sense references "roll defense dice normally."
I think you can roll defense dice normally and it's not confusing.
Attacking normally can be confusing, though. Maybe "roll attack dice normally" could work, but even then there are so many powers that modify normal attacks and so many special attacks out there that it's not cut and dry the way rolling defense dice is.
But your wording is "defense normally" so yeah if you change it to "defense dice normally" then all is good with the world. :D

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, but the thing is that we passed Hal Jordan all the way through the process with the wording as "defense normally," so I want to stay consistent with that here. :-)
Do you think it's a big enough thing to go back and change Green Lantern at this point?

[NecroBlade]

"roll defensive dice normally" is actually the official terminology.

[IAmBatman]

Updated due to popular demand. Where do you guys stand on retroactively updating Hal Jordan?

[A3n]

Updated due to popular demand. Where do you guys stand on retroactively updating Hal Jordan?
Yes please - how did we all miss that?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Also, Force of Fear SA starts out "Figues without the fearless or insane personalities..." Should be "Figures".

[IAmBatman]

Yipes - typo tastic! Thanks, Spidey!

[whitestuff]

I'm not up with any of the Lanterns. They never interested me.

Is it thematically right that they are as powerful as Thanos and the Hulk? Bats, you said that you started at 380 and that it might go higher... Are they that powerful?

[IAmBatman]

Well, he wields the most powerful weapon in the universe, he single handedly took Mongul apart in hand to hand combat, he's Hal's (priced at 350) arch nemesis, and he's pretty much the intergalactic Hitler of DC at this point.
Here's some light reading on him: http://comics.ign.com/top-100-villains/15.html
I wouldn't really want to go higher than 380, but I could see that far being justified. And, honestly, I hate using Thanos and Hulk as barometers because I feel like a C3G Thanos or Hulk would probably each be about 20-30 points more powerful. Is Thanos really 70 points less powerful than Thor?
I think 340-390 is a thematically appropriate range for Sinestro, though, and I don't want to get caught up in a point based ranking system. Even at 380 there's no guarantee he beats Hulk one-on-one (I imagine he'd probably lose), and then there's Thanos who is 360 but about 60 points of that is wrapped up in his ability to resurrect.

[Griffin]

Another home run IMO! I think this guy is ready for playtesting honestly. :up:

[GreyOwl]

Which comes first again? Design phase playtest or ERB?

[IAmBatman]

Design phase playtest.
Then ERB phase.
Then Playtest phase.

[GreyOwl]

Thanks! :)

[Griffin]

Hahma updated me on that ERB change yesterday. I think that happened while I was away. Even still. I personally doubt that the ERB will have much affect on my mindset. I am willing to listen, but I honestly doubt they are likely to alert us to things that we have not already considered... but whatever. :roll:

[IAmBatman]

I think that it's better to have it early than late to help avoid another Colossus situation (though that one was a bit of a perfect storm of a few elements).

[Griffin]

I totally see that it is best placed between Design and Playtesting, I just personally don't see its value as being as high as some of us do.

[GreyOwl]

Well, it resulted in a significant change to Colossus so there must be some value...

[Griffin]

Well, it resulted in a significant change to Colossus so there must be some value...
Again, I do see some value, but not as much as others.

[Griffin]

Bats, I think you are ready for a Preliminary Playtest. Do you need me to run one? I will have time tonight.

[IAmBatman]

Please do! :-) I don't anticipate having any time to playtest anything until ... July?

[Griffin]

I will playtest Sin and BM tonight then. :excited:

~ Griffin, when woot just isn't enough...

[Griffin]

Bats, why is Sin an Insurgent? Shouldn't he be something more sinister or commanding? Does Sin really need to be boosted by means of intimidation from Arkillo? I don't like the power creep on that nor do I like the theme at all...

[IAmBatman]

Because Sinestro is yellow lantern corps. If Arkillo's power is boosting YLC members, and we have ... I dunno ... about five of them we might ever, ever make, then Sinestro should be an Insurgent.
Sinestro is an Insurgent either way, IMO, but if you find Arkillo's power too powerful, you should comment on that power over there.

[Griffin]

Actually, after playing with Sin tonight, I can see where the Insurgent bonus could possibly give Sinestro a more of a reason to use his normal attack... possibly. So I am good now. More on my playtests later though.

[IAmBatman]

Look forward to it. From what you were saying on the phone, it's sounding like bumping him down to Yellow Power Battery 4 might be the way to go to keep his cost from being way over 380.

[Griffin]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT SINESTRO

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? NO, not at 380

Out of 9 tests, Sinestro only lost one, and that was due to a D20 roll with Omega Effect. As he is, Sinestro IMO is worth 430 points.

TEST 1
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Hulk
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

TEST 2
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Darkseid
Sinestro wins with 1 wound and 2 Power Batteries (PB).

Darkseid wins with 4 wounds and Sinestro had 4 Power Batteries (PB). DS rolled a 20 on his Omega Effect.

TEST 3
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Superman
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 4 Power Batteries (PB).
TEST 4
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Green Lantern (Hal)
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 2 Power Batteries (PB).

TEST 5
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Thor
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB). Those 3 wounds came from Thor's Thunder Strike too..


_____________________________________________________________


- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? YES, to get him at 380 or 390

All I did was reduce his Power Battery to 4 and these tests were much closer.

TEST 1
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Hulk
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB).

Hulk wins with 6 wounds and O Power Batteries on Sinestro (PB).

TEST 2
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Darkseid
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB).

Darkseid wins with 6 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB) on Sinestro.

TEST 3
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Superman
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).
TEST 4
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Green Lantern (Hal)
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB), GL had 0 PB when he died.

Green Lantern wins with 3 wounds and 1 PB, Sinestro had 0 PB when he died.



TEST 5
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Thor
Thor wins with 7 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB) on Sinestro.

Thor wins with 6 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB) on Sinestro.


_____________________________________________________________


- Squad / Does it pass? YES
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Cops x6
Cops win with 2 squads left.

Sinestro had height the entire time, and he used his SA but never doubled it, because he needed his high defense to avoid all of the pot shots. Finally, after 3 wounds, he began using his Shields to avoid two skull attacks, but eventually, a single skulled attack snuck in there on a DW roll.

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES at 380 or 390
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro and Magneto (700) VS Superman and Wonder Woman (700)

Superman and Magneto take height, but Supes is higher. Then Mags moves up to even ground to put one wound on Supers. Then WW moves to the ladder behind Superman using him as a shield to block engagement, then she lassos Magneto and puts him underneath her on the ladder and hits him for 3 wounds. Wonder Woman is now in a position where Magneto is lassoed underneath, and Superman is blocking her above, so Sinestro will not be able to engage her and save Magneto.
Sinestro moves up and gives Superman a total of 5 wounds by doubling his SA! Then WW kills Magneto. Next round. Sinestro engages WW on the ladder where Magneto use to be, and gives her 3 wounds. Then Superman goes beneath Sin on the ladder and rolls 4 skulls, Sinestro blocks one and takes 3 wounds. Sinestro then kills Superman with his doubling SA. WW hits Sin but he uses a Power Shield to avoid it. Then Sin hits her back with 2 wounds. WW then hits again for 6 skulls! Sinestro avoids it with his last shield. Next round, anything can happen... both WW and Sin are one away from death.... WW has height.... Sinestro is all out of Shileds.... Sinestro get initiative and kills WW with his Special Attack.

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 PBs.

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES, Very close game, With Sinestro and Darkseid pulling out all of the stops. I would have to pass Sinestro at 390
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro, Darkseid, and Ironman (1000) VS Green Lantern,Flash, and Superman(1000)
Superman takes a platform, Sinestro takes the other platform. GL moves to the top of the Subway entrance. Darkseid advances on the platform, while Flash takes the tunnel. DS hits Superman with the OE, then Flash engages DS and gives him a wound with his SA. Sinestro scares the crap out of flash with 3 wounds using his force of fear and DS's imposing presence to bring the crimson crusader down to a defense of 2, luckily flash was on a Shadow tile. Sinestro goes for the kill early on but Flash vanishes through the subway tunnel hiding in the shadow all the way. Flash then sneaks up on Ironman and gives him 3 wounds. Then Ironman takes height but misses the Flash. GL on height attacks DS for 4 total wounds! Then Darkseid matches GL's height but hits Superman again with the OE for 3 more wounds. Ouuch! Superman flies up and punches DS for another wound. Then Sinestro advances up and shoots at Superman while engaged with Darkseid for the kill. GL, charges and kills Darkseid, then Sinestro goes head to head with Hal. They get each other down to 3 wounds and no power batteries, but Sinestro had that great SA of 6 to finish the job. Then Flash kills Iron man, while Sinestro tries to kill him but he only scared Flash into the shadows of the tunnels. Flash continued to use the shadows to boost his defense and kept hitting those blanks until it was finally his turn (because Hal lost the entire round for them by dying). Then with one big punch of 5 with 2 skulls, the tired Sinestro took a swan dive into the subway station's shadows...

Flash wins with 3 wounds.

_____________________________________________________________


- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES, still passes at 390
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro and Darkseid VS Batman, Huntress, IronMan, and Iceman
Sinestro takes the top height, IronMan moves up and attacks twice giving Sin 2 total wounds. Then Sinestro kills Ironman by doubling his SA. Iceman moves up and attacks, giving Sinestro one more wound, then Sinestro kills Iceman by doubling his SA. Batman advances, rolls a 3 skull batarang so Sinestro burns a PB. Then sinestro attacks Batman for 3 wounds, but does not double his attack. Then batman swings up on height, punches sinestro for one skull, Sin rolls defense and fails, and down goes Sinestro. Batman goes after DS and hits him for one wound with a batarang. DS tries his OE, but fails taking his second wound. Batman attacks again, but fails. Then DS takes a wound from leaving engagement and hides to avoid the Evasive Strike, but fails his OE and takes now his 4th wound. batman moves up again to attack butfails, then DS punches him out for the kill. Huntress runs up using the tunnel, then DS unleashes his OE for 3 wounds on Huntress. Huntress gets into position and puts two more wounds on DS with her double SA of 5, then DS engages her and kills her.

Darkseid wins with 6 wounds. close game.

[IAmBatman]

Yep, sounds like the decrease to 4 Power Batteries is the way to go. I'm convinced and making the change on the first post.

[Griffin]

Look forward to it. From what you were saying on the phone, it's sounding like bumping him down to Yellow Power Battery 4 might be the way to go to keep his cost from being way over 380.Exactly. I know how much we want those batteries to feel extremely powerful, I know I do, and part of that feeling is just seeing it on the card, however, after playing nearly 100 one on one matches with GL or Sinestro, I am telling ya

:woot: THE POWER BATTERY IS THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IN SUPERSCAPE!! :woot:

Seriously though, it is extremely powerful, and each marker is essentially a complete bypass to soooooo many unit's powerful attack, special or normal, that each marker may actually be worth about 40 points or so. In Sin's case, it does that and/or it allows up to a potential of doubling his special attack of 6 4 or 5 times, depending on how many power batteries we give him. In case I haven't said it yet, I am in favor of him having a power battery of 4! That is the only change I want to see on the front page. :D

[IAmBatman]

Well then look at the front page, lol.
And, yeah, it's the most powerful weapon in the DCU, so I'm happy it's the most powerful weapon in Scape too. :-D (Though I'd argue Thor's Hammer is right up there ...).

[A3n]

Sinestro looks really good IAB, I now want a Sinestro clix :(.

[IAmBatman]

I don't think the blue suit one is that expensive!
Thanks, btw. :-) I'm happy with where we've got him. Once Griff finishes the initial playtest, I'm happy to move him to the playtesting phase.

[A3n]

I don't think the blue suit one is that expensive!
Thanks, btw. :-) I'm happy with where we've got him. Once Griff finishes the initial playtest, I'm happy to move him to the playtesting phase send it to the ERB.

Fixed.

[IAmBatman]

Touce! :-) Thanks for the reminder and for keeping me on task.
By the way, for those interested, I've put thread updates in the first post. Hopefully this is a template for how we can all do it.

[A3n]

Touce! :-) Thanks for the reminder and for keeping me on task.
By the way, for those interested, I've put thread updates in the first post. Hopefully this is a template for how we can all do it.

That's a little different to how I have been doing it. Hmmm.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - remember that idea Whitestuff had about doing a thread summary every once in a while to help catch people up on the discussion? That's what I was going for.

[Griffin]

Yeah - remember that idea Whitestuff had about doing a thread summary every once in a while to help catch people up on the discussion? That's what I was going for.A3n has been doing that, this is just your way of trying to cover up the fact that you initially forgot. :p

[Griffin]

Hmmmm.... I wonder where I put that playtest sheet. I'll just go to the front page and I can... oh.... ;)

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - remember that idea Whitestuff had about doing a thread summary every once in a while to help catch people up on the discussion? That's what I was going for.A3n has been doing that, this is just your way of trying to cover up the fact that you initially forgot. :p

I didn't forget. We said we would do it weekly. Also, frankly, there's been very little need for updating in this thread thus far.

[IAmBatman]

It's been posted, what, an hour? lol
If you're that desperate to have it on the front page, you have the power.

[Griffin]

My playtest has been updated.

OK, I am done playtesting and picking on Bats for the day. Time to get some rest. Peace. :D

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... interesting update. Sounds like Sinestro is much better against other heroes than against squads. Does that adjust your thinking on his cost at all?

[Griffin]

Hmm ... interesting update. Sounds like Sinestro is much better against other heroes than against squads. Does that adjust your thinking on his cost at all?
Well, he took out 4 out of 6 squads worth of Cops, I think that is pretty darn good. I mean they are constantly rolling little attacks, so there is no reason for him to use his Shield, and there is no good reason to double his SA because he needs those Markers to boost his defense to stay protected. So basically he is killing one cop each turn, and they are attacking with very little attacks of 3 each turn waiting for him to whiff. So once he has whiffed a couple of times, he has to start using shields to avoid the attacks of two skulls (just to be safe), and that is when it gets dangerous for him, when his defense dice start to dwindle. I think he did great, and certainly behaved like a 380 figure, they just can't all be Superman (who has a lot of value tied into his awesome resistance to squad attacks).

[IAmBatman]

True, but Superman also holds up very well to mid level heroes and heavy hitters for his point cost - he earns his 400 points all around.
I think Sinestro certainly did well against the squads, but he did fall after only killing 260 points worth of a squad that's not particularly known for its hero killing prowess. I know we're used to heroes getting owned by squads in squadscape and all, and I certainly don't expect him to be killing 380 points every time, but I do wonder if his clearly performing worse against squads than heavy hitters diminishes his value any.

[Griffin]

True, but Superman also holds up very well to mid level heroes and heavy hitters for his point cost - he earns his 400 points all around.
I think Sinestro certainly did well against the squads, but he did fall after only killing 260 points worth of a squad that's not particularly known for its hero killing prowess. I know we're used to heroes getting owned by squads in squadscape and all, and I certainly don't expect him to be killing 380 points every time, but I do wonder if his clearly performing worse against squads than heavy hitters diminishes his value any.
Well it did make me reconsider the 390 mark if that is what you are asking. But I think 380 is at least the basement for this guy. Just look at how well he did in my most recent army test (390 looks good for him IMO). Magneto failed him as an ally, and he pretty much took on Superman and WW all by himself, using Magneto as somewhat of a sacrificial lamb of course. :twisted:

[IAmBatman]

So you had Sinestro costed at 390 for that test? Because it seems like he played pretty balanced at that cost in that one.
Are you sure you don't think that we should readjust his special attack to make it a little less fierce (either only subtracting one defense or lowering the attack to 5)? It seems he owns Superman more than maybe he should thematically.

[Griffin]

I personally like how he is a Boss of Villains though. I am playing him in a new army right now, and Sinestro teamed up with Darkseid is awesome, but not unbeatable.

[Griffin]

I guess it really depends on what you want out of Sinestro. If you want an awesomely powerful villain that costs about 380-390 points, then this is the way to go. But if you want him less than that, then we can adjust his powers. Personally, I am really liking the powerful Sinestro, who by the way, is the greatest Green Lantern that ever lived. :D

[IAmBatman]

So it doesn't bother you, Superman fan of Superman fans, that a dude with a yellow power ring is owning the Man of Steel on a regular basis?
Also, where do you think it'd put his cost if his special attack was of 5 instead of 6?

[Griffin]

Superman is an idol not just because of what he can do, but because of his high moral code. He IS the standard that all heroes hold themselves to, even Batman has admitted to that. No it doesn't bother me. I think Sinestro is smarter, almost as consistently powerful, and a much better warrior. Sinestro rules dude. :D

Probably at 350.

[IAmBatman]

OK, and what if his base attack and defense are raised to 3/3 and his special attack is at 5 and everything else stays how it is on the first post?

[Griffin]

OK, and what if his base attack and defense are raised to 3/3 and his special attack is at 5 and everything else stays how it is on the first post?
Honestly, that is just a lot of changes and I am not sure without playtesting it. Are you unhappy with the way he has turned out? Did you want him to be more on par with Hal rather than Darkseid? Because he plays a lot like a mix between the two. I really like where he is right now, and though I priced him at 390, I could go with 380 if we wanted him a tad more draftable like Darkseid.

[IAmBatman]

I'm not sure I'm convinced that, thematically, he should be on par with Darkseid. I'm cool with him being above Hal, but it seems he should be closer to Hal than to Darkseid, not the other way around, you know?

[Griffin]

I do agree with you, but honestly, DS should be 390 or 400 and in fact he really should be 430 more like Thor.

[IAmBatman]

True ... so are you saying that a 380 point Sinestro would still be weaker, in gameplay, than a 380 point Darkseid?
Also, part of me is concerned that a special attack of 6 that subtracts 2 from opponents' defense might just be a little much in terms of power level in general - but you've played him and I haven't, so I'm willing to trust you.

[Griffin]

I mean I am not gonna lie, it is VERY POWERFUL, which is why he is so expensive at 390 and only has a life of 4. If he stays the way he is, he is going to kill stuff... simply put. Perhaps I need to run some mid level heroes against him to see if I can better understand your concerns. Let me go run that and I will report back on it.

[IAmBatman]

Thanks. :-) I appreciate you putting in the extra effort here.

[Griffin]

Thanks. :-) I appreciate you putting in the extra effort here.
No problem. These powerful types like Thor, Superman, Doomsday, etc, need extra attention I know.

So I just updated my sheet, and things look very balanced to me. Though I could see where Sinestro could get out of control... he can still be forced to deplete his battery and take wounds.

[IAmBatman]

OK, I'd like to hear from some others on this idea of whether we like him at 390 or want to adjust some things to lower his power level before moving on. :-)
Also, if you want to set your current position in stone, I'd love to hear it, Griff.

[Griffin]

OK, I'd like to hear from some others on this idea of whether we like him at 390 or want to adjust some things to lower his power level before moving on. :-)
Also, if you want to set your current position in stone, I'd love to hear it, Griff.
I could go either way. Personally though, and largely because I have already done so much playtesting on him, I prefer this current version. But if wanted to bring him down a notch, I think the easiest way to do that would be to bring his special attack down to a 5, which I would be fine with and I think that would cost him more around 370 on the conservative side.

I think that if I put my own personal investment aside though, I will have to say... lets drop the SA to 5 and make him 370 for all future playtesting.

[Griffin]

Oh, also, and this I forgot to mention, there were times where Sinestro could just keep using his SA while on height, and that bothered me some. I would like to see it's range be 1 that way at times, he will have to forfeit height advantage. That would also give his normal attack more use and drop his cost to a solid 360.

So I want the SA down to range 1 attack 5, and his cost at 360.

[IAmBatman]

I think I'm in favor of bringing it down to a range 1, attack 5 thing as well. I'm still hoping to hear from others before making a change, though. :-)
After we agree on where to go on this issue, I think I'll be ready to propose we move to the Executive Review Board phase.

[Griffin]

OK, well my work here is done, I am off to Black Mask. :D

[NecroBlade]

I think the Range 1, Attack 5 change would lead to more interesting play, so I'm for it. Also, can Sinestro not fly (I see no symbols mentioned)?

[Griffin]

He should have Flight and Super Strength. That is how I playtested him. I am sure Bats just forgot.

[A3n]

Range 1 & attack 5 does sound more fun & points below 380 sound like a better fit for the character to be at.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

OK - that's four in favor. :-) I'll hold off on the proposal and see if there are any more comments, but this looks like the direction.
And, yeah, forgot the symbols ... sorry! Thanks for the catch. :-)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think a Range 1 Attack 5 SA adds a new dimension to Sinestro. Also, with the need to be adjacent, it kinda plays like Intimidating Presense which from a thematic sense makes sense.

[Hahma]

I'm good with the Rng 1 Attack 5 for the special attack. It's better than Intimidating Presence for that turn but costs a Battery Marker to use, so it's cool to keep it situational and leads to one of my favorite things in a unit, allows for options and decisions (sometimes tough ones).

[Griffin]

I'm good with the Rng 1 Attack 5 for the special attack. It's better than Intimidating Presence for that turn but costs a Battery Marker to use, so it's cool to keep it situational and leads to one of my favorite things in a unit, allows for options and decisions (sometimes tough ones).
I completely agree with you. And I think your sentiment with that is reflected in one of my favorite new units, Huntress. I really like playing with her a lot. Meaning she has great... assets... abilities... you know what I mean. :p

[IAmBatman]

I believe the 24 hours has elapsed, so I propose we move Sinestro to the Executive Review Board phase!

[Hahma]

yea

[A3n]

Yea

[Griffin]

yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Yea, and that makes 5!

[whitestuff]

Yea, let's see what they say...

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

OK, just need Necro to make it a consensus! :-)

[GreyOwl]

Does this require a unanimous vote or just a majority?

[IAmBatman]

A majority to pass, a unanimous vote to save us from having to wait 48 hours. :-P

[Griffin]

Does this require a unanimous vote or just a majority?
Like any proposal, it lasts for 24 hours or until each member has voted, which ever comes first. When the votes are tallied, the majority of VOTES wins.

[GreyOwl]

Just checking... :)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Does this require a unanimous vote or just a majority?
Like any proposal, it lasts for 48 hours or until each member has voted, which ever comes first. When the votes are tallied, the majority of VOTES wins.
Fixed. (Don't go trying to change the rules again, Griffin! ;) )

[Griffin]

Does this require a unanimous vote or just a majority?
Like any proposal, it lasts for 48 hours or until each member has voted, which ever comes first. When the votes are tallied, the majority of VOTES wins.
Fixed. (Don't go trying to change the rules again, Griffin! ;) )
:oops: My bad. :D

[IAmBatman]

OK, as of 10:33 PM tonight, my proposal to move this to the Executive Review Board phase will pass with or without Necro's vote. Not that I'd mind if Necro chose to speed things up, though. :-)

[NecroBlade]

Let's do it. Yea.

[IAmBatman]

Awesome! Thank you, sir. :-) I'll be sending out the pm in a bit once I'm caught up around here.

[IAmBatman]

All right, pm sent, now the waiting begins! :-)

[IAmBatman]

First ERB response is in from Sherman Davies!

Sherman:

Well, the wording seems very tight to me. The only thing I would suggest regarding the text is that Yellow Power Shield replaces the "ignore that attack" wording with the wording from Spidey Sense, "takes no damage." "Ignore that attack" might lead some players to think that the ignored attack can be re-applied to a different figure. It would be a weird reading of that sentence, but it's possible.

My only other feedback is about his cost, which I think is way too high. If you've already playtested the similar Green Lantern powers feel free to ignore this, but in my (very) limited experience with that Power Battery mechanic, Lanterns burn up those markers pretty quickly, which leads to a downward spiral of utility for these figures. I only played against this mechanic a couple of times, when Taeblewalker wanted to try the C3G Green Lantern, and Hal was beaten pretty handily both times. (I forget right now who he faced.)

If I understand the card right, Sinestro's essentially a single-attack, 5 range, 6 attack, 6 defense, 4 life figure. And that's before he starts emasculating himself by burning markers, which will happen any time his player faces at least a 3-skull attack. That special attack's nice, but his initial stats seem to indicate to me that he should be in the low-300s at best.

[Griffin]

I strongly disagree with Sherman's points.

1) You are not rolling defense dice when you use the Power Shield, so "takes no damage" is weird when you are actually "ignoring the attack". Plus we already set the precedent on Hal's card.

2) Simply put, he just had bad luck or poor decision making with his two test with Hal, or both. Hal is one of the most awesome and consistent butt kickers I have had the pleasure of playing with, and the same can be said for Sinestro. Sherman just lacks the experience with these figures that is all. And I can say these things because I have playtested Sinestro and Hal Jordan over 100 times combined.

[IAmBatman]

Yep, I totally agree about #1. The precedent is set on Hal, so unless we're revisiting Hal (and I don't think we need to for this issue), we should go this way on Sinestro and all others with variations of this power.
I agree that, from my extensive experience playing him, Hal is perfectly priced at 350 points, so I have difficulty believing that Sinestro isn't worth at least that much due to their similarity.
Obviously, more playtesting will help determine his final cost, but I'm doubtful to it being anywhere close to that low.
I'm not seeing anything here that is cause for concern or change, personally. I'm still waiting to hear from Velenne as well. :-)

[IAmBatman]

OK, enough time has passed where I could propose moving this to playtesting, but since I just sent out the pm today letting ERB members know we had the 48 hour policy, I'm going to give Velenne until tomorrow to respond before making any such proposals.

[IAmBatman]

OK - close enough to tomorrow for my tastes. :-)
I propose we move Sinestro to playtesting.

[Griffin]

OK - close enough to tomorrow for my tastes. :-)
I propose we move Sinestro to playtesting.
Do you really think that only 6 hours after sending out your PM to the ERB is enough time? I am not so sure. You should give a day like you suggested for me. :)

[IAmBatman]

It was enough time for Mr. Helm. That's a fine standard for me. :-) But if others want to keep waiting, they certainly can.

[Griffin]

It was enough time for Mr. Helm. That's a fine standard for me. :-) But if others want to keep waiting, they certainly can.
Well as you, GreyOwl, and Aldin went out of your way to say that we should, we probably should right?

[IAmBatman]

I've made my proposal. Everyone can independently decide how long they want to wait to vote. After 48 hours, the votes will be counted on the proposal and it will be tallied based on a majority.

[A3n]

I'm happy for it to go ahead, Yea.

[Griffin]

I think enough time has passed to give the ERB a chance to fully respond.

YEA

[Hahma]

yea

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

OK, Hahma's vote counts for Spidey as well right now, so we're just waiting on Whitestuff and Necro.

[NecroBlade]

Yea

[whitestuff]

Yea

[Griffin]

FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card, and attack again with Force of Fear Special Attack.I like that change Bats, I do. I just wish I had been informed of it though. You must be testing us to see if we are paying attention right? Well I must not have been. :oops:

[Griffin]

FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card, and attack again with Force of Fear Special Attack.

OK, I was just reading over this and I have a question. Can Sinestro use this SA more than twice in a single turn?
The way I playtested it was that he could only use it twice per turn, I thought that was the intent. But after reading it again, I think that someone could very easily think that they could continue to use this power over and over in a single turn until they no longer have a PB to remove.
Now I know that Double Attack has a similar issue, in that someone could read it and argue that they can attack indefinitely, but Double Attack at least has the word "Double" in it to nudge you in the right direction. Now I am not saying that Force of Fear Special Attack should try and do the same, but in order to avoid an FAQ, I do believe that it is important to attempt to word it in a way that cannot be misinterpreted, easily at least.

FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card, and attack again with Force of Fear Special Attack, up to a maximum of 2 total attacks in a single turn.
That line is taken from Wolverine's Army Card.

[NecroBlade]

FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card to attack with Force of Fear Special Attack one additional time.This would fix it (based on official Double Attack wording).

[Hahma]

When Bats first told me about this power, I had gotten the impression that Sinestro could continue to use this special attack as long as he had Battery Markers. Bats mentioned something to the effect that "if Sinestro had only 1 life left, he might continue to keep hammering Superman with this attack to take him down to" or something along those lines. So hopefully Bats will check in on his world tour and clear up the intent.

I changed it to reflect the multiple options. I don't know if it's official, but I gave it a shot.


FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card for each additional attack with Force of Fear Special Attack.

[NecroBlade]

FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card to attack with Force of Fear Special Attack an additional time.In that case, THIS would fix it (based on official Frenzy wording).

As I noted recently in response to a rules question, there is a subtle difference in HS between "an additional" (can happen multiple times) and "one additional" (can happen once and only once).

[whitestuff]

I'm pretty sure that Hahma is right. I think it was worded so that, if you wanted to, you could go all out and burn through your markers.

[Griffin]

I'm pretty sure that Hahma is right. I think it was worded so that, if you wanted to, you could go all out and burn through your markers.
If that is the case, I need to do some extra playtesting, cause I did not playtest him that way, and honestly, I am concerned about how much that will raise his cost. I will test it, but I think I prefer the max of 2 (especially since it is so powerful), and also with the Wolverine line that in all honesty is clearer than official double attack, and wouldn't need any FAQ.

[Griffin]

Yea
Sinestro passed for the ERB phase btw.

[IAmBatman]

Catching up here real quickly! :-)

FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card, and attack again with Force of Fear Special Attack.I like that change Bats, I do. I just wish I had been informed of it though. You must be testing us to see if we are paying attention right? Well I must not have been. :oops:

That's been there since I started this thread. :-) So, no, you must not have been paying attention. :-P

I'm pretty sure that Hahma is right. I think it was worded so that, if you wanted to, you could go all out and burn through your markers.

You and Hahma are both correct about the original intentions, but given how it was playtested and given Griffin's compelling argument, I think he's right that a cap is in order to keep everything fine and dandy. I'm going to make the change based on his wording and then inform the playtesters that this is good to go for sign ups! :-)
Oh, also, heard late from Velenne - nothing we need to slow down for, though, IMO, but I'll post it:

Sorry for just getting back to you. I've been out of town since Monday and got back last night.

Why do fearless and insane people roll fewer defense dice against Force of Fear? That seems to go against the explanation text of them being more resistant to fear.

He doesn't seem any better to me than Hal so I don't see why he should cost more. Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm all for increasing his battery back to 5. :reapershrug:

I like the Special Attack. It seems like a great last-ditch effort to win a game.

I know nothing about the character himself. I suppose he's the mirror for GL and in that I suppose you've succeeded. Is there no other fundamental difference to the yellow energy that could be expressed in the mechanics?

[NecroBlade]

See post #112 for much cleaner wording, then, Bats. i.e. Get rid of that damn 'cap.' :? :p

[Griffin]

Why do fearless and insane people roll fewer defense dice against Force of Fear? That seems to go against the explanation text of them being more resistant to fear.He obviously didn't read the power correctly. :ignore:

He doesn't seem any better to me than Hal so I don't see why he should cost more. Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm all for increasing his battery back to 5. :reapershrug:Because Sinestro has a Special Attack of 5 that never gets taken away... oh and it reduces defense by two.... and it could also be used twice in a single turn... :ignore:

I like the Special Attack. It seems like a great last-ditch effort to win a game.Yep, or a great first impression when when shaking hands with Superman for the first time. :twisted:

I know nothing about the character himself. I suppose he's the mirror for GL and in that I suppose you've succeeded. Is there no other fundamental difference to the yellow energy that could be expressed in the mechanics?I think we covered that with Hal being fearless and attacking more and more while wounded and all alone, and then Sinestro maintaining his threat/fear level all game with his awesome Special Attack. :ignore:

[IAmBatman]

See post #112 for much cleaner wording, then, Bats. i.e. Get rid of that damn 'cap.' :? :p


Honestly, I think it's only the title of "Double Attack" that makes the intention of that wording clear for Double Attack. If you were to literally follow the wording there, there would be no cap on the attack other than how many Markers you have to remove.
Thus, I went with the less clean, but more effective wording.

[Griffin]

See post #112 for much cleaner wording, then, Bats. i.e. Get rid of that damn 'cap.' :? :p


Honestly, I think it's only the title of "Double Attack" that makes the intention of that wording clear for Double Attack. If you were to literally follow the wording there, there would be no cap on the attack other than how many Markers you have to remove.
Thus, I went with the less clean official, but more effective wording.
Fixed. :thumbsup:

[NecroBlade]

Quick Release Special Attack: Range 4. Attack 4. When Kaemon Awa attacks with his Quick Release Special Attack, he may attack one additional time.
No mention of "double" anything in there.

[IAmBatman]

True. So there is some point about the experienced Scape player being able to understand that point ... I'll throw it open to a poll from all our Heroes. It still annoys me that, if followed literally, Kaemon's power would allow you to attack infinitely. We're experienced with the power and its intention so, of course, we don't play it that way, but according to the meaning of the words and sentences, attacking with it infinitely would be technically correct.

[IAmBatman]

Do you prefer:

A) FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card to attack with Force of Fear Special Attack one additional time.

or

B) FORCE OF FEAR SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card, and attack again with Force of Fear Special Attack, up to a maximum of 2 total attacks in a single turn.


?

I'm going with B.

[NecroBlade]

A. Soooooo much cleaner and a basic understanding 'scapers need to have for official cards anyway.

[Hahma]

Does this work?



Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may attack one additional time this turn if you remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card.

[Griffin]

B, it is cleaner and clearer, to prove that point, I believe even Necro said that he had to even "rule clarify" it recently. I think the Wolverine's line is our C3G precedent, and it is ssooooooo much cleaner, because it doesn't require any clarification/FAQ. :) There is your proof, B is better. No clarification needed.

[Griffin]

Hahma's option does work as well. It is similar enough to the official line that older players will recognize it, but it has a slight enough tweak with the phrase "this turn" that it clarifies the intent without any FAQ like the official term.

I change my answer to C, Hahmazing! :D

With a slight change:
Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may attack one additional time this turn by removing one yellow Battery Marker from this card.

[Hahma]

C.) below for me.

Range 1. Attack 5.
Figures without the fearless or insane personalities roll 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Force of Fear Special Attack. After attacking with Force of Fear Special Attack, you may attack one additional time this turn by removing one yellow Battery Marker from this card.

[Griffin]

1 for A

1 for B

2 for C

[GreyOwl]

I vote A. It's more official, and I don't think inexperienced scapers usually play with customs anyway.

[whitestuff]

I like C.

[A3n]

A) for me. It sounds the closest to Double Attack official wording.

[Griffin]

I vote A. It's more official, and I don't think inexperienced scapers usually play with customs anyway.
I used to think that, but the more I have gotten to know our fan base, I have realized that most of them have little to no experience with the real game. Heck, we have had or do have a couple of Heroes like that.

[Griffin]

3 for A

1 for B

3 for C

[IAmBatman]

Make that:

3 for A

5 for C

B has clearly become a moot point, so I'm changing my vote. And Hahma's voting for Spidey right now, so the vote is closed.
I'm updating the first post and contacting McCrimson with the updated info for his playtest. :-)

[GreyOwl]

We can't necessarily assume Hahma would vote the same for Spidey as he would for himself....but the final result doesn't seem to be affected either way.

[Griffin]

We can't necessarily assume Hahma would vote the same for Spidey as he would for himself....but the final result doesn't seem to be affected either way.
Actually Spidey wanted Hahma's vote to just be doubled because he trusts his judgment and sides with him often.

[GreyOwl]

Ah got it. Just making sure that's not how it automatically works. :)

[IAmBatman]

Here's the latest! Playtest from Scapemage! :-)

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Sinestro
(please only use red print for all of your responses)

C3G CHECK LIST FEEDBACK FORM
For this section, no play testing is required, only comment below if necessary. This is a guideline for things that you should be looking for as you play-test.
- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them. Pass
- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game. Pass
- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding. Pass
- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak. Pass
- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what are the stipulations on the power if there are any. Pass, but the special attack is really strong.

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
All tests done on Ravaged Road (again, sorry I'm switching maps this weekend.
- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?
Vs. Silver Surfer win: Silver Surfer w/ 1 wound
Vs. Superman win: Superman w/ 6 wounds
Vs. Thanos win: Sinestro w/ 1 wounds and 4 markers
Vs. Hulk win: Sinestro w/ 2 wounds and 4 markers
Vs. Darkseid win: Darkseid w/ 4 wounds
- Squad/ Does it pass?
Vs. 3x Sentinals of Jandar
Round 1: Sen. move/ Sinestro moves, kills a Sen./ Sen. move, atk for 1 wound on Sinestro/ Sinestro Spec. atk kill another Sen., removes a marker, kills another Sen./ Sen. move, atk for 2 wounds on SInestro/ Sinestro moves, Spec. atk kills naother Sen.
Round 2: Sinestro mves, spec. atk misses, removes a marker, atk misses/ Sen. move, kill Sinestro
Win: 5 Sentinals
- Melee Based Army/ Does it pass?
Sinestro, Monks, Kozuke Vs. Ornak, Othkurik, Marcu, Cyprien, Torin
Round 1: Ornak activates Cyprien and Marcu, which both move/ Kozuke move/ Torin moves/ Monks move/ Torin moves, kills a Samurai/ Monks move, atk for 3 wounds on Torin
Round 2: Ornak activates Othkurik who moves/ Samurai move, kill Torin/ Monks move, atk for 4 wounds on Marcu/ Ornak moves/ Sinestro moves, atk misses
Round 3: Ornak activates Cyprien who kills a Monk, Ornak activates Othkurik who moves, spe. atk kills last 2 Monks/ Cypriend moves, Chilling Touch dels a wound to Sinestro, atk misses/ Sinestro spec. atk misses/ Othkurik spec. atk kills a Samurai/ Sinestro atk for 2 wounds on Cyprien
Round 4: Ornak activates Cyprien, whose atk misses, Ornak activates Othkurik who moves, kills the last Kozuke/ Sinestro spec. atk for 3 wounds to Cyprien, removes a marker, kills Cyprien/ Sinestro moves, spec. atk misses/ Othkurik moves, atk misses/ Sinestro moves, spec. atk misses
Round 5: Othkurik atk 2 wounds to Sinestro/ SInestro sec. atk for 2 wounds to Othkurik/ Marcu moves, atk misses/ Sinestro spec. atk for 1 wound to Othkurik, removes a marker, kills Marcu/ Ornak moves/ Sinestro Spec. atk kills Othkurik
Round 6: Ornak moves, kils Sinestro
Win: Team 2: Ornak at full health (4)
- Ranged Based Army/ Does it pass?
Sinestro, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Dudge, Marro Warriors Vs. Joker, Warden 816, Zettian Guards, DW9K
Round 1: Joker moves/ Archers move/ Joker moves, spec. atk kills an Archer/ Warriors moves, atk for 1 wound on Joker/ Warden moves/ Archers move, atk for 2 wounds on Joker
Round 2: Joker spec. atk misses/ Archers atk for a wound on Joker/ DW9K moves, spec. atk misses/ Warriors atk misses/ Guards move, atk misses/ Sinestro moves, kills Joker
Round 3: Archers move/ Guards move, kill an Archer/ Sinestro moves, atk misses/ Warden moves, atk misses/ Sinestro atk misses/ Warden moves, Spec. kills last Archer.
Rounds 4-6: (I'm skipping over this because most of it was missed attacks. The SOulborgs and Snestro fired back and forth, the Warriors fell, but the Drudge never moved. Sinestro finally des i round 6, but he managed to get rid of the Warden and Deathwalker in Round 5.)
Analysis: Sinestro is really powerful. Force of Fear Special Attack is REALLY strong. My suggestion is removing the last line, but making the special attack require a marker. Sinestro spammd the attack for quick kills. With the change, I'd say 330. WIthout, 380.

[IAmBatman]

Here's the early stuff from McCrimson (not a full playtest yet):

OK here's the results so far from my 5 heavy hitter tests and my squad test. all tests performed on sidewinder map. I really hope I am playing him right, as this is my first time playing as a lantern character.

Hero test 1 HULK370 vs. SINESTRO 360
Hulk wins initiative. 1. super leaps to height. Sinestro moves to height on other side. 2 hulk super leaps to engage sinestro on same height and rolls 4skulls. Sinestro rolls 1 shield for 3 wounds. Sinestro uses fof special 3 skulls vs.3 shields. He burns a battery and hulk blocks second attack. Hulk swings and sinestro uses a battery to block the 5 skull roll. For sinestros last attack, he uses FOF and gets a wound on hulk. He burns a battery and attacks again but hulk blocks.
End of round 1. Hulk no wounds, sinestro 1 battery left and 3 wounds.
1. Sinestro wins initiative and swings at hulk inflicting 2 wounds. Hulk uses rage smash 5 forcing sinestro to use his last battery. Sinestro lands 2 more wounds on him with FOF. Hulk uses rage smash and nails sinstro with an unblock able hit.
Hulk wins with 4 wounds in round 2.

Test 2 sinestro vs. Thanos360
Sinestro moves to height. Thanos moves in and attacks at range to sinestro with sinestro on height. Thanos rolls 5 skulls forcing a battery shield. Sinestro moves in engaging thanos and attacking with FOF. Sinestro rolls an amazing 5 skulls vs. 3 shields for 2 wounds. He burns a battery and attacks again but gets blocked. Thanos hits sinestro for 1 wound. Turn 3 sinestro with FOF but is blocked. Goes for extra attack and inflicts 1 wound on thanos. Thanos rolls 5 skulls depleting the last battery.
END OF ROUND 1- SINESTRO NO BATTERY, 1 WOUND. THANOS-3 WOUNDS.
Sinestro wins initiative and uses fof and inflicts 2 wounds on thanos. Thanos rolls 2 skulls which are blocked with 2 shields by sinestro. Sinestro FOF for 4 skulls vs. 1 shield killing thanos.
Sinestro wins with no batteries and 1 wound.

Test 3 sinestro vs. abomination 320.
Abomination moves to height. Sinestro moves to height. Abomination moves to another height. Sinestro moves adjacent and attacks with fof which is blocked. He attacks again and gets a wound in. Abomination nails him for 2 wounds.sinestro uses fof and its blocked. Uses battery and blocks again.
End of round 1 abomination 1 wound. Sinestro 2 battery and 2 wounds.
Abomination wins initiative and swings but sinestro blocks. Sinestro uses fof and puts another wound on abomination. Attacks again and gets 1 more wound. Sinestro is forced to use his last battery. Sinestro uses FOF and gets 2 wounds on abomination. Abomination rolls 3 skulls vs. no shields to kill sinestro.
Winner abomination with 5 wounds.

Test 4 sinestro vs. venom150 and captain america220.
Captain and venom win intiative. Captain moves. Sinestro moves to height. Shield throw is blocked by sinestro. Sinestro gets height and attacks. Sinestro puts 1 wound on captain. Venom moves to within range of sinestro and uses web special but its blocked. Sinestro rolls 5 skulls which is wiffed by the captain.
End of round 1 sinestro no wounds 4 batteries. Venom has no wounds
Venom wins initiative and engages sinestro. Venom puts a wound on sinestro. Sinestro uses FOF and puts 2 wounds on venom. Burns battery and attacks again and gets another wound. Venom missed spider sense on both. Venom hits with 4 skulls vs. 1 shield to kill sinestro.
Venom wins 3 wounds.

Test 5 sinestro vs. spiderman160 and red skull190
Sinestro moves to height. Red skull moves in. sinestro moves and engages red skull on height. Hits for 2 wounds on red skull. Red skull rolls a 1 on dust of death and is blocked on his attack. Sinestro puts 2 more wounds on red skull.spiderman goes in and hits sinestro for 1 wound.
End of round 1 sinestro 1 wound 4 battery. Red skull 4 wounds spidey no wounds.
Sinestro wins initiative and kills red skull. Spidey puts another wound on sinestro. Sinestro does fof for 3 skulls, spidey rolls 5 on sense. Defense roll is a 1 shield for 2 wounds. Sinestro burns battery and hits for 3 skulls, spidey rolls a 6 on sense is 2 shields for 1 wound. Spidy puts a wound on sinestro. Sinestro uses fof 3 skulls but spidey rolls a 20 on sense and moves to height. Spidey uses web but is blocked.
End of round 2 sinestro 3 wounds 3 battery. Spidey 3 life.
Spiderman starts with the web and sinestro wiffs for the kill
Spiderman wins with 3 wounds.

squad test
Sinestro vs. 5x regiment of foot 375
Sinestro wins initiative and moves in. two foots move to height. Sinestro moves in closer but hides from sight. Foot moves closer to height and one can see sinestro and fires but wiffs. Sinestro on height kills one soldier. First soldier blocked, second soldier gets a wound on sinestro, sinestro blocks third, 4th wiffs.
End of round one, sinestro 4 battery one wound, 1 soldier dead.
Sinestro wins initiative again and moves in and kills a soldier. 1st soldier hits sinestro for 1 wound. 2nd blocked, 3rd blocked, 4th blocked. Sinestro kills a soldier.1st wiffs, 2nd is blocked, 3rd is blocked, 4th is blocked. Sinestro kills a soldier. 1st blocked, 2nd blocked, 3rd gets a wound on him, 4th forces a battery use.
End of round 2, 4 soldiers dead, sinestro 3 wounds, 3 battery.
Foot wins initiative, first soldier forces battery removal, 2nd is battery removal, 3rd is blocked, 4th forces battery removal. Sinestro moves and attacks with fof but is blocked.1st soldier is blocked, 2nd gets deathblow on sinestro.
Winner, 10th regiment of foot with 16 soldiers left

Army Test 1
Superman and batman600 vs. sinestro and iron man600
Team sinestro wins initiative.sinestro moves to height. Superman moves in. Iron man moves to height within range of superman and fires. Superman blocks both attacks. Superman moves to equal height of iron man and attacks and puts 2 wounds on iron man. Iron man on his last turn answers back with 2 wounds on the man of steel. Second attack is blocked. Superman rolls 4 skulls vs. iron mans 2 shields to knock iron man out of the game.
End of round one- batman no wounds, superman 2 wounds. Sinestro no wounds 4 battery.
Sinestro wins initiative. Moves to equal height of superman and attacks with FOF. Puts 1 wound on superman. Burns battery and does again but superman blocks. Sinestro blocks superman’s attack. Sinestro with fof for 1 wound.burns battery, superman blocks second attack. Superman rolls heavy skulls forcing a battery removal from sinestro. Sinestro’s last attack is fof but blocked. Burns last battery and does another attack.superman blocks that attempt as well. Superman rolls 3 skulls and sinestro only rolls skulls thus killing sinestro.
Winner-superman 4 wounds, batman unused.
Thoughts-superman is a powerhouse that dominated the entire game. I really hate superman lol.

Army Test 2
Army test 2- sinestro 360 and silver surfer320 vs. abomination 320 and thanos360
Team thanos wins initiative. Thanos moves in. sinestro moves to height. Thanos moves to height and attacks sinestro. Thanos forces a battery burn by sinestro. Surfer moves to equal height and cosmic force blasts thanos for 1 wound. Failed roll for reveal. Thanos attacks sinestro again.sinestro is forced yet again to burn a battery. Surfer moves and engages thanos and uses cosmic force to put another wound on thanos.
End of round 1 abomination 0 wounds, thanos 2 wounds. Sinestro no wounds 2 battery. Surfer no wounds.
Sinestro wins initiative and runs behind glacier to hide. Thanos attacks surfer. Thanos rolls 6 skulls vs. surfers 2shields for 4 wounds. Thanos blocks surfers cosmic attack. Thanos rolls 5 skulls vs. surfers 3 shields to knock out the surfer. 3rd order marker was on surfer. Thanos moves to height within range of sinestro and attacks putting 2 wounds on sinestro.
End of round 2 abomination 0 wounds thanos 2 wounds. Sinestro 2 wounds 2 battery left.
Thanos wins initiative and forces a battery removal from sinestro. Sinestro engages thanos and uses fof and puts a wound on thanos. Sinestro pulls a hail mary and burns his last battery but thanos blocks. Thanos puts a wound on sinestro. Sinestro fof but its blocked. Thanos rolls 5 skulls to kill sinestro.
Winners- thanos 3 wounds, abomination0 wounds.
Thanos rolled like a champ and forced me to play lawyer ball with the battery shields.

[IAmBatman]

Test Summaries (this will be in progress). My notes in blue.

Scapemage
C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
All tests done on Ravaged Road (again, sorry I'm switching maps this weekend.

Summary: Sinestro got owned by Silver Surfer, brought Superman to within an inch of his life, handled Thanos readily (who I consider to be worth considerably less without a chance to resurrect), won fairly convincingly against Hulk, then lost pretty convincingly to Darkseid.
After averaging out some numbers here, I'd say he's looking like

360 after the Heavy Hitter test


- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?
Vs. Silver Surfer win: Silver Surfer w/ 1 wound
Vs. Superman win: Superman w/ 6 wounds
Vs. Thanos win: Sinestro w/ 1 wounds and 4 markers
Vs. Hulk win: Sinestro w/ 2 wounds and 4 markers
Vs. Darkseid win: Darkseid w/ 4 wounds


Sinestro doesn't seem to perform that well against squads. It looks like he went up against 9 Sentinels of Jandar here and killed 4 of them. That's not horrible - and I certainly wouldn't expect him to kill 330 points worth of Sentinels outright. Well, actually, if he were going to cost 360-380, maybe I would. But he didn't even come close. He killed fewer than 150 points worth of squads. So, adjusting for Hero/squad inflation ...
I can't put him as worth more than

160 points for the squad test


- Squad/ Does it pass?
Vs. 3x Sentinals of Jandar
Round 1: Sen. move/ Sinestro moves, kills a Sen./ Sen. move, atk for 1 wound on Sinestro/ Sinestro Spec. atk kill another Sen., removes a marker, kills another Sen./ Sen. move, atk for 2 wounds on SInestro/ Sinestro moves, Spec. atk kills naother Sen.
Round 2: Sinestro mves, spec. atk misses, removes a marker, atk misses/ Sen. move, kill Sinestro
Win: 5 Sentinals

This one was a bit difficult to decipher without Scapemage including the point costs of anything, so there's some rougher estimation going on here.
Sinestro killed Cyprien and Othkurik, but died himself and his team lost. So I'll give him credit for what he killed.
290 points for the first Army Test.


- Melee Based Army/ Does it pass?
Sinestro, Monks, Kozuke Vs. Ornak, Othkurik, Marcu, Cyprien, Torin
Round 1: Ornak activates Cyprien and Marcu, which both move/ Kozuke move/ Torin moves/ Monks move/ Torin moves, kills a Samurai/ Monks move, atk for 3 wounds on Torin
Round 2: Ornak activates Othkurik who moves/ Samurai move, kill Torin/ Monks move, atk for 4 wounds on Marcu/ Ornak moves/ Sinestro moves, atk misses
Round 3: Ornak activates Cyprien who kills a Monk, Ornak activates Othkurik who moves, spe. atk kills last 2 Monks/ Cypriend moves, Chilling Touch dels a wound to Sinestro, atk misses/ Sinestro spec. atk misses/ Othkurik spec. atk kills a Samurai/ Sinestro atk for 2 wounds on Cyprien
Round 4: Ornak activates Cyprien, whose atk misses, Ornak activates Othkurik who moves, kills the last Kozuke/ Sinestro spec. atk for 3 wounds to Cyprien, removes a marker, kills Cyprien/ Sinestro moves, spec. atk misses/ Othkurik moves, atk misses/ Sinestro moves, spec. atk misses
Round 5: Othkurik atk 2 wounds to Sinestro/ SInestro sec. atk for 2 wounds to Othkurik/ Marcu moves, atk misses/ Sinestro spec. atk for 1 wound to Othkurik, removes a marker, kills Marcu/ Ornak moves/ Sinestro Spec. atk kills Othkurik
Round 6: Ornak moves, kils Sinestro
Win: Team 2: Ornak at full health (4)

Some crappy units used on both sides of this test, so I'm hoping that effect evened out.
Sounds like Sinestro took out Joker (190), Warden 816 (90), and DWK9K (140). So, I'll give him, in what I consider an advantageous match up -
420 points for the second Army Test.



- Ranged Based Army/ Does it pass?
Sinestro, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Dudge, Marro Warriors Vs. Joker, Warden 816, Zettian Guards, DW9K
Round 1: Joker moves/ Archers move/ Joker moves, spec. atk kills an Archer/ Warriors moves, atk for 1 wound on Joker/ Warden moves/ Archers move, atk for 2 wounds on Joker
Round 2: Joker spec. atk misses/ Archers atk for a wound on Joker/ DW9K moves, spec. atk misses/ Warriors atk misses/ Guards move, atk misses/ Sinestro moves, kills Joker
Round 3: Archers move/ Guards move, kill an Archer/ Sinestro moves, atk misses/ Warden moves, atk misses/ Sinestro atk misses/ Warden moves, Spec. kills last Archer.
Rounds 4-6: (I'm skipping over this because most of it was missed attacks. The SOulborgs and Snestro fired back and forth, the Warriors fell, but the Drudge never moved. Sinestro finally des i round 6, but he managed to get rid of the Warden and Deathwalker in Round 5.)
Analysis: Sinestro is really powerful. Force of Fear Special Attack is REALLY strong. My suggestion is removing the last line, but making the special attack require a marker. Sinestro spammd the attack for quick kills. With the change, I'd say 330. WIthout, 380.

After Scapemage's tests, despite his analysis of 380, or 330 with a change, my numbers show him as worth about 310 points (this is actually rounded up!).


McCrimson
OK here's the results so far from my 5 heavy hitter tests and my squad test. all tests performed on sidewinder map. I really hope I am playing him right, as this is my first time playing as a lantern character.

To summarize, Hulk beat Sinestro convincingly (350), Sinestro beat Thanos convincingly (360), Abomination wins a somewhat close one but has a clear advantage (310), Venom and Cap win a somewhat close one but have a clear advantage (360), and (this one shocked me because Red Skull doesn't seem worth 190 points in a two on one match), Spidey and Red Skull win a somewhat close one, but have a clear advantage (340).
So, I'm giving him

345 points for the Heavy Hitter tests (rounded up by 1)


Hero test 1 HULK370 vs. SINESTRO 360
Hulk wins initiative. 1. super leaps to height. Sinestro moves to height on other side. 2 hulk super leaps to engage sinestro on same height and rolls 4skulls. Sinestro rolls 1 shield for 3 wounds. Sinestro uses fof special 3 skulls vs.3 shields. He burns a battery and hulk blocks second attack. Hulk swings and sinestro uses a battery to block the 5 skull roll. For sinestros last attack, he uses FOF and gets a wound on hulk. He burns a battery and attacks again but hulk blocks.
End of round 1. Hulk no wounds, sinestro 1 battery left and 3 wounds.
1. Sinestro wins initiative and swings at hulk inflicting 2 wounds. Hulk uses rage smash 5 forcing sinestro to use his last battery. Sinestro lands 2 more wounds on him with FOF. Hulk uses rage smash and nails sinstro with an unblock able hit.
Hulk wins with 4 wounds in round 2.

Test 2 sinestro vs. Thanos360
Sinestro moves to height. Thanos moves in and attacks at range to sinestro with sinestro on height. Thanos rolls 5 skulls forcing a battery shield. Sinestro moves in engaging thanos and attacking with FOF. Sinestro rolls an amazing 5 skulls vs. 3 shields for 2 wounds. He burns a battery and attacks again but gets blocked. Thanos hits sinestro for 1 wound. Turn 3 sinestro with FOF but is blocked. Goes for extra attack and inflicts 1 wound on thanos. Thanos rolls 5 skulls depleting the last battery.
END OF ROUND 1- SINESTRO NO BATTERY, 1 WOUND. THANOS-3 WOUNDS.
Sinestro wins initiative and uses fof and inflicts 2 wounds on thanos. Thanos rolls 2 skulls which are blocked with 2 shields by sinestro. Sinestro FOF for 4 skulls vs. 1 shield killing thanos.
Sinestro wins with no batteries and 1 wound.

Test 3 sinestro vs. abomination 320.
Abomination moves to height. Sinestro moves to height. Abomination moves to another height. Sinestro moves adjacent and attacks with fof which is blocked. He attacks again and gets a wound in. Abomination nails him for 2 wounds.sinestro uses fof and its blocked. Uses battery and blocks again.
End of round 1 abomination 1 wound. Sinestro 2 battery and 2 wounds.
Abomination wins initiative and swings but sinestro blocks. Sinestro uses fof and puts another wound on abomination. Attacks again and gets 1 more wound. Sinestro is forced to use his last battery. Sinestro uses FOF and gets 2 wounds on abomination. Abomination rolls 3 skulls vs. no shields to kill sinestro.
Winner abomination with 5 wounds.

Test 4 sinestro vs. venom150 and captain america220.
Captain and venom win intiative. Captain moves. Sinestro moves to height. Shield throw is blocked by sinestro. Sinestro gets height and attacks. Sinestro puts 1 wound on captain. Venom moves to within range of sinestro and uses web special but its blocked. Sinestro rolls 5 skulls which is wiffed by the captain.
End of round 1 sinestro no wounds 4 batteries. Venom has no wounds
Venom wins initiative and engages sinestro. Venom puts a wound on sinestro. Sinestro uses FOF and puts 2 wounds on venom. Burns battery and attacks again and gets another wound. Venom missed spider sense on both. Venom hits with 4 skulls vs. 1 shield to kill sinestro.
Venom wins 3 wounds.

Test 5 sinestro vs. spiderman160 and red skull190
Sinestro moves to height. Red skull moves in. sinestro moves and engages red skull on height. Hits for 2 wounds on red skull. Red skull rolls a 1 on dust of death and is blocked on his attack. Sinestro puts 2 more wounds on red skull.spiderman goes in and hits sinestro for 1 wound.
End of round 1 sinestro 1 wound 4 battery. Red skull 4 wounds spidey no wounds.
Sinestro wins initiative and kills red skull. Spidey puts another wound on sinestro. Sinestro does fof for 3 skulls, spidey rolls 5 on sense. Defense roll is a 1 shield for 2 wounds. Sinestro burns battery and hits for 3 skulls, spidey rolls a 6 on sense is 2 shields for 1 wound. Spidy puts a wound on sinestro. Sinestro uses fof 3 skulls but spidey rolls a 20 on sense and moves to height. Spidey uses web but is blocked.
End of round 2 sinestro 3 wounds 3 battery. Spidey 3 life.
Spiderman starts with the web and sinestro wiffs for the kill
Spiderman wins with 3 wounds.

Sinestro went up against 375 points worth of squaddies and got absolutely owned here. He killed only 4 of the 20 squad figures before going out. That's a measly 75 points.
Even being charitable, I can't give Sinestro more than

100 points for the squad test.


squad test
Sinestro vs. 5x regiment of foot 375
Sinestro wins initiative and moves in. two foots move to height. Sinestro moves in closer but hides from sight. Foot moves closer to height and one can see sinestro and fires but wiffs. Sinestro on height kills one soldier. First soldier blocked, second soldier gets a wound on sinestro, sinestro blocks third, 4th wiffs.
End of round one, sinestro 4 battery one wound, 1 soldier dead.
Sinestro wins initiative again and moves in and kills a soldier. 1st soldier hits sinestro for 1 wound. 2nd blocked, 3rd blocked, 4th blocked. Sinestro kills a soldier.1st wiffs, 2nd is blocked, 3rd is blocked, 4th is blocked. Sinestro kills a soldier. 1st blocked, 2nd blocked, 3rd gets a wound on him, 4th forces a battery use.
End of round 2, 4 soldiers dead, sinestro 3 wounds, 3 battery.
Foot wins initiative, first soldier forces battery removal, 2nd is battery removal, 3rd is blocked, 4th forces battery removal. Sinestro moves and attacks with fof but is blocked.1st soldier is blocked, 2nd gets deathblow on sinestro.
Winner, 10th regiment of foot with 16 soldiers left

Sinestro didn't do as well in the Army tests as I thought he would. Apparently lowering Superman to 5 defense and nullifying Man of Steel and then attacking him with 5 attack wasn't strong enough to really damage him. I think McCrimson made a huge tactical error not leading strong with Sinestro and then following with Iron Man to outrange Evasive Strike, but I don't think it would have made a difference. I think I'm being charitable in putting Sinestro at

300 points for Army Test 1.

Army Test 1
Superman and batman600 vs. sinestro and iron man600
Team sinestro wins initiative.sinestro moves to height. Superman moves in. Iron man moves to height within range of superman and fires. Superman blocks both attacks. Superman moves to equal height of iron man and attacks and puts 2 wounds on iron man. Iron man on his last turn answers back with 2 wounds on the man of steel. Second attack is blocked. Superman rolls 4 skulls vs. iron mans 2 shields to knock iron man out of the game.
End of round one- batman no wounds, superman 2 wounds. Sinestro no wounds 4 battery.
Sinestro wins initiative. Moves to equal height of superman and attacks with FOF. Puts 1 wound on superman. Burns battery and does again but superman blocks. Sinestro blocks superman’s attack. Sinestro with fof for 1 wound.burns battery, superman blocks second attack. Superman rolls heavy skulls forcing a battery removal from sinestro. Sinestro’s last attack is fof but blocked. Burns last battery and does another attack.superman blocks that attempt as well. Superman rolls 3 skulls and sinestro only rolls skulls thus killing sinestro.
Winner-superman 4 wounds, batman unused.
Thoughts-superman is a powerhouse that dominated the entire game. I really hate superman lol.

Sinestro didn't do any better here, and against what I'd think might be weaker competition in the usually not worth his cost unless he regenerates Thanos. Neither hero on Sinestro's team pulled their weight here and it sounds like some lucky early rolls by Thanos influenced that, but, still, I can't go over

280 points for Sinestro in Army Test 2.

Army Test 2
Army test 2- sinestro 360 and silver surfer320 vs. abomination 320 and thanos360
Team thanos wins initiative. Thanos moves in. sinestro moves to height. Thanos moves to height and attacks sinestro. Thanos forces a battery burn by sinestro. Surfer moves to equal height and cosmic force blasts thanos for 1 wound. Failed roll for reveal. Thanos attacks sinestro again.sinestro is forced yet again to burn a battery. Surfer moves and engages thanos and uses cosmic force to put another wound on thanos.
End of round 1 abomination 0 wounds, thanos 2 wounds. Sinestro no wounds 2 battery. Surfer no wounds.
Sinestro wins initiative and runs behind glacier to hide. Thanos attacks surfer. Thanos rolls 6 skulls vs. surfers 2shields for 4 wounds. Thanos blocks surfers cosmic attack. Thanos rolls 5 skulls vs. surfers 3 shields to knock out the surfer. 3rd order marker was on surfer. Thanos moves to height within range of sinestro and attacks putting 2 wounds on sinestro.
End of round 2 abomination 0 wounds thanos 2 wounds. Sinestro 2 wounds 2 battery left.
Thanos wins initiative and forces a battery removal from sinestro. Sinestro engages thanos and uses fof and puts a wound on thanos. Sinestro pulls a hail mary and burns his last battery but thanos blocks. Thanos puts a wound on sinestro. Sinestro fof but its blocked. Thanos rolls 5 skulls to kill sinestro.
Winners- thanos 3 wounds, abomination0 wounds.
Thanos rolled like a champ and forced me to play lawyer ball with the battery shields.

With both Army Tests now in, McCrimson's Sinestro is looking like he's worth 260 points (rounded up!). Averaged with Scapemage's test, that's about 285 points for Sinestro. Averaged with Griff's feeling that he's worth 380 after his updates, weighting Griff double based on his experience, that puts us at 330 points. If I use Griff's theoryscaped 360 point estimate based on changes made after Griff ran the initial tests, he averages out to about 320.
I'm honestly thinking he's probably worth about 320-330 at this point. I'd like to do some additional playtesting on my own (just a couple of army tests) and then make a proposal based on that.

[Griffin]

I have lots of experience with the Lanterns, and quite honestly, I play them better than most. But with that said, if a unit has a high learning curve (which I believe Sinestro does), I think it is wise to drop the cost based on the average, because that is how he is usually going to perform in most peoples hands, and we don't want them feeling cheated out of a bunch of points and never drafting him again. However, with his ability to just run through a bunch of mid-level heroes without any real experience needed, I can't justify his cost going below 320.

[IAmBatman]

With the averages weighted for your scores to count twice due to higher experience, the current average of all three playtesters is 325 points. I honestly expect that to go up to about 340-360 average after McCrimson does army playtests. The squad tests bring Sinestro down, but the army tests tend to even things out a bit.

[IAmBatman]

OK, I've updated the Playtest results (they're complete now and all linked on the first post) and my analysis post of the playtest results - all on page 12.
Right now I'm feeling 320-330 points for Sinestro. I'd like to do some additional army tests myself, probably tomorrow, to doublecheck on that before I make a proposal.

[Griffin]

OK, I've updated the Playtest results (they're complete now and all linked on the first post) and my analysis post of the playtest results - all on page 12.
Right now I'm feeling 320-330 points for Sinestro. I'd like to do some additional army tests myself, probably tomorrow, to doublecheck on that before I make a proposal.
Cool. :) I had just sent you a PM asking for Crimson's tests and then when I refreshed my UserCP, you had done just that... :oops:

[Griffin]

OK, I am seeing a big problem with Sinestro now. He kinda sucks compared to when I played him. I would much rather see his special attack go back to an attack of 6 and price him at 370. I say 370 instead of the 390 because it appears that he comes with a high learning curve.

[IAmBatman]

You said 380 originally (so both 370 and 390 seem confusing to me here) and I don't think it's so much learning curve as it is that he plays a lot differently with a special attack of 5 compare to 6.
I'm going to playtest him today with his attack both ways and put my results and move from there.

[IAmBatman]

Sinestro Supplemental Tests
All Tests done on Invasion
Army Test 1
Sinestro (330), Black Canary, Raelin (600 total) vs. Hal Jordan and Flash (600 total)
Raelin died early after a couple of attacks from Flash and didn't really earn her value here. Black Canary and Sinestro both did pretty well, despite never really benefitting from Raelin's aura.
Sinestro killed Flash outright (though he took 3 wounds from the Scarlet Speedster and low rolls of one or two skulls consistently on his special attack hurt), and burned one of Hal Jordan's marker despite having the disadvantage against Hal's Fearless personality.
Hal burned two of Sinestro's Battery Markers and finished him with the last wound.
Sinestro burned the other two Battery Markers in an attempt to take Hal down with him.
Black Canary put two wounds on Hal.
Overall, the dice favored Hal's team slightly.
I felt Sinestro was worth his 330 points here, though he is clearly not worth as much as Hal at this point.
I'm currently leaning towards 330.
Army Test 2
Sinestro (330) and Beast (500 total) vs. Batman, Green Arrow, and Venom (500 total)
Sinestro in another tough one. Venom was rolling for his Spider-Sense about half the time and that's a nice counter to Sinestro's special.
Sinestro took out Green Arrow early, with relative ease, but it didn't feel like it should have taken the 3 attacks it did.
In the meantime, Venom put 3 wounds on Sinestro and burned 3 of his Battery Markers.
Sinestro responded by finishing Venom, though it was a difficult task.
Finally, Sinestro attacked Batman, with one life left and one Marker on his card. Batman rolled a 15 for Evasive Strike to finish him off.
This one felt close all around and didn't make me think either 330 or 320 would feel wrong.
I'm starting to think the best "fix" here might be to bump the range on Sinestro's special attack back up to 3 and keep him at 330 points.

[Griffin]

You said 380 originally (so both 370 and 390 seem confusing to me here) and I don't think it's so much learning curve as it is that he plays a lot differently with a special attack of 5 compare to 6.
I'm going to playtest him today with his attack both ways and put my results and move from there.
It isn't confusing. I can get 390 points worth out of him with his old Special Attack of 6, but most people more than likely will not, and that means that Sinestro will ultimately end up not being drafted. But I think if people try, they could get 360-370 out of him. With all of my comments here though, there is one major flaw in my opinion... I have not playtested him with the Special Attack of 5.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I have, and getting over 330 points seems tough, IMO. I liked your idea of trying his life at 5 and seeing what that does, though.
I'm highly confident in him at 320-330 as is. I think if we both run two army tests with him at life 5, we can lock down his cost there pretty well.

[IAmBatman]

Army Test 3 - Sinestro with 5 life.
Sinestro (340),Captain America, Iron Man (800 total) vs. Thor and Hulk (800 total)
Sinestro and company come into this one very aware that they're going up against a high class 800 point army. They just want to prove they can be competitive here.
Thor flies across the map and throws his hammer at Cap, but Cap uses a tree bonus to avoid the attack.
Pumped up by Captain America's tactical boost, Iron Man uses his double attack to put two early wounds on Thor, who is on height.
Hulk Super Leaps to the middle of the map (on height).
Sinestro flies to engage Thor and tries his special attack, but can't get a wound.
Round two starts with initiative going to Thor. He tries his Hammer again, swinging at adjacent Sinestro and throwing at Cap from range. He can't get a wound in, though.
My streak of poor rolls with Sinestro's special attack continues (2 skulls) and Thor easily blocks it, even with two fewer defense.
Hulk comes down from height and throws a punch at Sinestro. Sinestro whiffs on his defense and takes three wounds.
At this point, I decide to get aggressive with Sinestro. He burns through all of his Battery Markers and manages to put 4 wounds on Thor, putting the god of thunder up to 6 wounds all together. Thor punches Sinestro and puts him out of his misery.
Not a bad showing for Sinestro despite the unfortunate early defensive whiff. He got 215 points out of Thor and gave his buddies a chance here.
Thor wins initiative once again. He gets within 2 spaces of both Cap and Iron Man and decides to use his God of Thunderstrike power before it's too late. He misses on both rolls, though.
Iron Man shoots Thor twice from height, but Thor blocks each three skull attack. Thor musters a weak hammer throw, but both heroes block.
Cap moves around Thor, adjacent to Iron Man, and puts a 7th wound on Thor with his normal attack. Hulk rumbles up to Iron Man and punches him for two wounds. Iron Man, still pumped by Cap, takes two shots at Hulk, but can't hurt him.
Round four starts with Iron Man hitting Hulk for two wounds. Thor then uses his hammer on both Cap and Iron Man again (after moving adjacent to Iron Man to cancel his tree bonus). Cap whiffs on defense and takes 2 wounds. Cap then finishes Thor with his normal attack.
Hulk swings hard at Iron Man, for 4 skulls, but Iron Man's suit holds up, blocking them all!
Hulk whiffs and takes one wound from a one skull attack from Cap. Hulk then finishes Iron Man with another 4 skull attack.
Round five starts with Cap having an uphill battle. Hulk wins initiative and then rolls an improbably 9 skulls. Game over!
Hulk survives with 5 wounds but I felt the dice could have changed and made this a lot closer. I think Thor and Hulk are the team to beat at 800 points, and I'm not sure if having 4 or 5 life would have made a difference here, since Thor's last attack put 2 wounds on the 2 life Sinestro.
I could see 330 or 340 at this point. One more test should help clarify!

[IAmBatman]

Army Test 4 - with 5 life
Sinestro (330) and Hulk (700 total) vs. Wonder Woman and Superman (700 total)
Poor die rolls plagued me early in this one again. Wonder Woman flew out and took height, and Sinestro came up to engage her (not wanting to deal with her bracelets or lasso). His first special attack couldn't muster enough to hurt her. Then she slapped him with a 5 skull attack from height and he only rolled one shield, putting him at 1 life right away. Sinestro fired back for one wound on Wonder Woman.
Then Wonder Woman rolled a 6 skull attack (gees!) and Sinestro burned a marker to block it. Sinestro put one more wound on Wonder Woman, then burned all of his remaining markers for additional attacks, but couldn't put a third wound on her.
Sinestro put a third wound on Wonder Woman after winning initiative in the second round. Then she put him out of his misery.
Wonder Woman ended up putting 5 wounds on Hulk before he finished her off. Being able to get on height early and force opponents to engage her at height disadvantage was a major advantage for Wonder Woman in this match up.
Hulk still managed to put 4 wounds on Superman before getting taken out, but Sinestro and Hulk were clearly outmatched in this test.
Even with 5 life, I would not put Sinestro above 330.

[IAmBatman]

I propose we finalize Sinestro as is on the front page with a cost of 330 points and move him to the Final Editing Phase.

[Griffin]

Yea. Good job on the last minute playtests. :D

[whitestuff]

Yea

[A3n]

Yea.

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

five down, three to go!

[Hahma]

yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I have a question: Is this what we (You, Bats!) want out of Sinestro? I thought originally the plan was for him to be more points than Hal and hence more powerful in ways. Is that still how you feel Bats, or do you just want to be done with him?

[IAmBatman]

I'm happy with anywhere between 330-370 points for Sinestro. I think he's still going to be a major pain for Green Lanterns - just not for the Fearless Hal so much. :-)
Once the Uncommon Yellow Lanterns and Uncommon Manhunters get added to the mix, though, I think Hal's going to have his hands full.
So, yeah, I'm happy with how he plays. :-)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I have a question: Is this what we (You, Bats!) want out of Sinestro? I thought originally the plan was for him to be more points than Hal and hence more powerful in ways. Is that still how you feel Bats, or do you just want to be done with him?

I'm happy with anywhere between 330-370 points for Sinestro. I think he's still going to be a major pain for Green Lanterns - just not for the Fearless Hal so much. :-)
Once the Uncommon Yellow Lanterns and Uncommon Manhunters get added to the mix, though, I think Hal's going to have his hands full.
So, yeah, I'm happy with how he plays. :-)
OK, I just wanted to check with you. Then if you are happy, really happy with him, I also vote YEA.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, part of me was tempted to let him be another Darkseid, but I'm not sure that's really right for his character. He's still a major threat where he's at. :-)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I am concerned that as a Sinestro Corps member, it will be tough to fit Mongul under him (if he isn't less, it should be called the Mongul Corps, you know what I am saying ;) )

EDIT: Personally, I think he should be only a step below Darkseid. He is feared throughout space after all. As are Darkseid and Mongul.

[IAmBatman]

Mongul never served Sinestro and I don't think we'd want to list him as an Insurgent either.
Sinestro beat Mongul one-on-one, but Mongul led the Sinestro Corps in Sinestro's absence until Sinestro took the mantel back from him. They were never on the same team.

[Griffin]

I am concerned that as a Sinestro Corps member, it will be tough to fit Mongul under him (if he isn't less, it should be called the Mongul Corps, you know what I am saying ;) )

EDIT: Personally, I think he should be only a step below Darkseid. He is feared throughout space after all. As are Darkseid and Mongul.
I also felt this way for a while, however, Antimonitor is waaaaaay more powerful than Sinestro, and he is a Sinestro Corp member. Also, don't forget that in a Yellow Lantern faction army, Arkillo will be boosting Sinestro and all other Yellow Lantern's attack by two! So with that said, we just make sure that Mongul is not an Insurgent (he should be a Warmonger) and then boom, Sinestro is still at the top. :D

[IAmBatman]

Ooooh ... Warmonger. Nice. I thought Conqueror, but Warmonger is even better. :-D

[Griffin]

Ooooh ... Warmonger. Nice. I thought Conqueror, but Warmonger is even better. :-DI have my moments. ;)

[IAmBatman]

OK, about 4 hours left on this one ... Are the background/comic art in the first post working for people or do we need to find something new?

[whitestuff]

Some other comic art choices...

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/Gl_Sinestro0005.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/Green_Lantern_Sinestro_Corps_Specia.jpg

but this next one gets my vote...
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/GL21CvrSolicit_A.jpg

[IAmBatman]

Yeah ... that gets my vote too! :-) Great find - I love that cover.

[A3n]

but this next one gets my vote...
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/GL21CvrSolicit_A.jpg

My vote also.

BTW cropped photo on the way to GO now. I think for the Sinestro Corps & Green Lanterns we should do the same border & panel combinations, like we did with the X-men.

Cheers

[Griffin]

but this next one gets my vote...
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bwhit89/c3g/GL21CvrSolicit_A.jpg

My vote also.

BTW cropped photo on the way to GO now. I think for the Sinestro Corps & Green Lanterns we should do the same border & panel combinations, like we did with the X-men.

Cheers
Word. And the Green Lanterns should have the same colors as well.

That pic looks great.

[NecroBlade]

Yea.

[Griffin]

Yea.
Awesome! Even though this proposal closed after 48 hours today at 3:30, and the votes were unanimous. ;) Still good to have our resident "closer" around for the last word though. :)

[A3n]

Mini card:
Cheers

[whitestuff]

The mini looks a little dark (needs a bit more front-on light).

The comic one is stunning... :shock:

[A3n]

The mini looks a little dark (needs a bit more front-on light).


Agreed. But it was the best picture in the gallery.

[Griffin]

I love the cards! 8)

[Griffin]

These two cards are near perfect and almost ready to be finalized. There is only one last change that needs to be made, and this is a small tweak to conform to the already passed Hal Jordan.

YELLOW POWER SHIELD
Anytime this Yellow Lantern is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, instead of rolling defense dice normally, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card and ignore that attack.

[A3n]

These two cards are near perfect and almost ready to be finalized. There is only one last change that needs to be made, and this is a small tweak to conform to the already passed Hal Jordan.

YELLOW POWER SHIELD
Anytime this Yellow Lantern is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, instead of rolling defense dice normally, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card and ignore that attack.

I'm sure that was supposed to have been changed on Hal. You roll dice not defense.

[Griffin]

These two cards are near perfect and almost ready to be finalized. There is only one last change that needs to be made, and this is a small tweak to conform to the already passed Hal Jordan.

YELLOW POWER SHIELD
Anytime this Yellow Lantern is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, instead of rolling defense dice normally, you may remove one yellow Battery Marker from this card and ignore that attack.

I'm sure that was supposed to have been changed on Hal. You roll dice not defense.
I completely agree with you, however, I think that Hal needs to be voted on and updated first, and then if that change can be implemented, we will implement it here, otherwise we should keep wording consistent.

I am gonna go propose that change to Hal now. :D

[GreyOwl]

Since there are 5 yea's for the change to Hal, it technically passes (even though the vote is not over), so I think we can proceed here assuming that.

[GreyOwl]

Correction, 6 yea's. I believe Hahma is voting for Bats.

[Hahma]

Since there are 5 yea's for the change to Hal, it technically passes (even though the vote is not over), so I think we can proceed here assuming that.

Isn't this one of those cases where we have to have unanimous votes to pass/change?

Do I still have Spidey's vote too since he's not around? :D

[GreyOwl]

Oh, I suppose so. We talked about voting away the unanimous vote, but we never did it. I think I'll go propose that now...

[IAmBatman]

Great looking cards! :-) Wish I had more time to chat/review things. Basically whenever Griff gives these the thumbs up to be moved to the On Deck stage, I'm happy with them as well. :-) So I'm granting either Hahma or Griff the power to make proposals in my stead in this thread.

[Griffin]

I think that we should wait until Hal gets the wording update that he needs first, then we can make this wording uniform with that one.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I figured you'd want to - but I'm not sure how much I'll be on in the next few days, so I wanted to give you guys the power to move this along as necessary.

[Griffin]

With the change in wording now made to Green Lantern, this card is perfect and ready to be Finalized and sent to the On Deck thread.

I propose that Sinestro be finalized and sent to the On Deck thread.

[IAmBatman]

yea! :-)

[GreyOwl]

Yea

[Hahma]

yea

[A3n]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Five votes down, three to go. Necro, Spidey, and Whitestuff can finish this one off, or we can wait the rest of the 48 hours. :-)

[A3n]

Five votes down, three to go. Necro, Spidey, and Whitestuff can finish this one off, or we can wait the rest of the 48 hours. :-)

Didn't somebody recently say we need a unanimous vote to release?

(or I could have just mis-read that :confused:)

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

We need to have a unanimous in favor vote out of those who actually vote. :-)

[whitestuff]

Yea

[Griffin]

Five votes down, three to go. Necro, Spidey, and Whitestuff can finish this one off, or we can wait the rest of the 48 hours. :-)

Didn't somebody recently say we need a unanimous vote to release?

(or I could have just mis-read that :confused:)

Cheers
Remember, our new voting system only counts the votes of those who actually vote. So if I propose something and I vote yea (obviously), but no one else votes at all, after 48 hours, all of the votes are TALLIED and the proposition would then pass because I would either have the majority or the unanimous decision, or in that example, both.

C3G RULES

2) Each Proposition will have 2 days to achieve a majority vote. A Proposition will stay active for 2 days or until all Heroes have voted, then the proposition will be closed. Once a proposition is closed, the votes will be tallied. A vote consists of a C3G Hero member posting yes or no in the C3G Voting thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1067913#post1067913) or individual design thread. If you do not vote, your vote will not be counted (obviously).
FINAL EDITING PHASEOnce Private C3G Design threads have been moved from the playtesting phase to the final editing phase, certain requirements must be met for the Private Designs to move to the release phase.


- There must be a finished product for members to critique, proof, and edit.
- The vote to pass in this phase must be a unanimous vote among the Heroes. However, if a Hero fails to vote yea or nay within 48 hours, their vote is forfeited and is not needed to pass the unit. At the end of 48 hours, all votes will be tallied.
- Any Hero may stop this phase by asking for 48 hours for more playtesting. After 48 hours, the voting process may resume.

[IAmBatman]

*bump* for Spidey! :-)

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Gracias! And YES!

[IAmBatman]

Awesome ... now we just need to hear from Necro. :-)

[Hahma]

Awesome ... now we just need to hear from Necro. :-)

Or time to run out. :D

[GreyOwl]

PDFs:

Sinestro (Mini) (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_Sinestro_mini.pdf)
Sinestro (Comic) (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/C3G_Sinestro_comic.pdf)

[Griffin]

Front page updated. Thanks GO.

[Griffin]

The proposal passes and Sinestro is now finalized and is being sent to the On Deck thread.

[Griffin]

Still need a Character Bio.

[IAmBatman]

Once considered the greatest of the Green Lanterns, Sinestro grew weary of the arrogance of the Guardians and struck out against them. Endowed with an ability to inspire great fear, Sinestro forged the anti-matter energies of Qward into an entire corps of Yellow Lanterns - the Sinestro Corps! Together with his army of Yellow Lanterns, the former champion of Korugar is a universe wide terror and the greatest foe of the Green Lanterns!

How's that look?

[Griffin]

:up: Good enough for me.

[A3n]

:up: Good enough for me.

:word:

[Griffin]

One thing that Sinestro is missing.... his Power Battery Markers.

[A3n]

One thing that Sinestro is missing.... his Power Battery Markers.

True that. I will get onto that.

[IAmBatman]

Thank you, sir. :-)

[A3n]

Cards have been updated with the yellow Battery Markers. Same links so just refresh your browser. New PDFs on the way to GO.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Puuuuuurdy. :-D

[GreyOwl]

PDFs updated with lantern markers.

[A3n]

JPGs updated & PDFs sent to GO.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Ah, beat me to it! :-) Thanks again.

[GreyOwl]

PDFs updated.

[Griffin]

PDFs updated.
What needed updating? :shock:

[Griffin]

Oh yes, the species. ;)

[SirGalahad]

The .pdf links are broken.

[A3n]

Cheers

[Griffin]

Updated.

[LordEsenwienIV]

Sweet! This guy looks awesome!

[DEATHWALKER 1970]

One man´s nasty is another man´s awesome I guess... :D

[LordEsenwienIV]

Are you kidding me? This guy is one of my newest favourite units! He can take down heroes with an attack of 2! I can't wait to tell the person I play against "He's no a threat. He just has an attack of two and can take down a lot of people with one hit":whistle:

[IAmBatman]

His special attack is pure evil. Good thing Hal Jordan is Fearless. :-D Daredevil too!

[All Your Pie]

I love how Arkillo and Sinestro seem to work best when you burn off their markers, while the Green Lanterns have the most offensive potential when they keep their markers.

[IAmBatman]

Yep - the Yellow guys are terrifying and aggressive - the Green guys are valiant and stalwart.

[Griffin]

The Orange guys are greedy and selfish and the Red guys are malicious and vile. 8)

[Margloth]

It is so interesting to read through these design threads... I'm really glad you guys makes these available to us!

Oh, and, this guy is awesome! Can't wait to strike some fear in the hearts of heroes!

[Hahma]

Yeah, sometimes you might find some heated discussions in these threads and sometimes things roll pretty smooth. You'll see that some designs require quite a bit of discussion and figuring out to get right.

Sinestro had just tore it up in a playtest I did yesterday. He can be pretty nasty.

[IAmBatman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again ... Sinestro + Darkseid can tear apart ANY unit out there. Park Darkseid adjacent to lower the target's defense by one, and then have Sinestro let loose with his special attack until he burns out. Brutal.

[quozl]

As an Insurgent, Sinestro benefits from Arkillo's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30217) Insurgent Motivation.

Also, not sure why the fearless and insane figures are listed under Synergy Benefits. That's the opposite of synergy.

[IAmBatman]

Thanks, quozl. First post updated! :-)

[A3n]

PDFs updated with large markers.

Cheers

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
Figures with the Fearless or Insane personality do not reduce defense when defending against Yellow Lantern Thaal Sinestro's Force of Fear Special Attack. Current figures with the Fearless or Insane personality include: Creeper (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32589), Daredevil (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30297), Deadpool (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29561), Green Goblin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31354), Green Lantern Hal Jordan (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29548), Harley Quinn (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=30305), Joker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?&p=996979#post996979), and Poison Ivy (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1055278#post1055278)I think this should be under synergies offered instead of the Strategy section.

[IAmBatman]

Synergies offered are really only a "friendly figure" thing, not what advantages you're offering your opponents.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Synergies offered are really only a "friendly figure" thing, not what advantages you're offering your opponents.
Yeah but it's listed that way for the exact same ability in relation to classic scape.

[IAmBatman]

Thanks for pointing that out! :-) I moved that bit to the strategy tips as well.

[Devil's Advocate]

Is it right that Sinestro can only use up 1 marker to gain an adiditonal attack or can he use up all 4 in the same OM to keep attacking over and over.

Also, against someone like MBS he couldn't use a marker since he does not have the option to roll Defense Dice right?

[CharosInCharge]

Sinestro may only attack a maximum of 2 times per turn.

The line that justifies this is "you may attack one additional time this turn by removing ..."

if the "this turn" was removed then he could attack again and again so long as he had the markers to do it

[Devil's Advocate]

Thanks, that is what I figured. Any ideas on if he can't roll Defense Dice? My guess is that he can't remove a marker to activate his shield.

[CharosInCharge]

I'd answer, but I'm not sure who MBS is...

[tcglkn]

Also, against someone like MBS he couldn't use a marker since he does not have the option to roll Defense Dice right?

That's correct. It say's instead of rolling Defense dice normally. Me-Burq-Sa doesn't allow you to roll defense.

[CharosInCharge]

Oh! Ha! Yeah I knew who MBS was then... I just never mix :D

[Good Pig]

Mixing is for sissies. :p