The Book of Nightcrawler

[Balantai]

The Book of Nightcrawler

C3G MARVEL WAVE 2
BRAVE AND THE BOLD

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_Nightcrawler_comic.jpg

Comic PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_Nightcrawler_comic.pdf)

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/jpg/C3G_Nightcrawler_mini.jpg

Mini PDF (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/cards/pdf/C3G_Nightcrawler_mini.pdf)

The figure used for this unit is a custom (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1093117&postcount=521) figure based on the Nightcrawler figure from the Fantastic Forces set.
Its model number and name are #082-084 / Nightcrawler.
______________________________________________________________

Character Bio - Demon, Evil, Spawn of the Devil. These are the things Kurt Wagner has been called since his birth. Kurt was born with blue hair, fanged teeth, and glowing yellow eyes in Germany.The people of the village feared Kurt, and to save her own life, Mystique (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27885), his mother, threw Kurt over a waterfall.
But Kurt did not die, he survived and was found by the gypsy sorceress Margali Szardos, who raised Kurt as her own in a traveling circus. There, Kurt learned about acrobatics and gymnastics, performing with the circus. Fate would have this joyful time cut short.
The villagers of the area were being plagued with murders, when they found out about Kurt and credited him for the crimes. It was then that Professor X (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27881) intervened and offered him a chance to learn more about his abilities, and more importantly, a place where Kurt could be himself and free from hate.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-


Synergy Benefits Received

Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Mutant, Nightcrawler may be activated by Professor X's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27881) Mutant Mind Link special power.
As a Mutant, Nightcrawler may be moved by Cyclops' (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27878) Mutant Field Commanderspecial power.
As a Mutant, Nightcrawler may add 1 to his 20-sided die roll with Destiny's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1417597) Probability Precognition special ability.
As a Mutant, Nightcrawler may be turned into an Outcast by Magneto's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43541) Mutant Recruitment special power.
As a Mutant, Nightcrawler may be turned into a Horseman by Apocalypse's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43541) Horsemen of the Apocalypse special power.
Synergy Benefits Offered


Classic:
N/AMarvel:
N/AC3G:
As a Mutant, Nightcrawler may offer an initiative bonus from Sentinel (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=27888)'s Mutant Detection special power.
As a Mutant, Nightcrawler may enable Jubilee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37861) to take a turn after him as his Mutant Sidekick._____________________________________________________________ ____

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
Nightcrawler is very good at killing squads because of his Teleporting Barrage Special Attack and because of his Teleport Evade.-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Playtest #1 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1052369&postcount=274)
Playtest #2 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1049293&postcount=237)
Playtest #3 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1054187&postcount=288)

[killercactus]

I just like to chime in on these from time to time - I really like them.

Should Bamf! have a sight restriction? I could just be remembering a line from X-Men 2, but didn't Nightcrawler need to be able to see where he was Bamfing to? I could be wrong though....

[Hahma]

I have to get back to work, I'll have to look at Nightcrawler later tonight after the kids are in bed. :D

[IAmBatman]

I like Devout as a personality - Tricky is too dime a dozen for him, IMO.
Make sure to put his name as the subtitle (is it Kurt Wagner?)
The powers all look good - as do the stats. I think the wording for the first power needs some slight tweaking, but I like the mechanics. I'll try to put a write up of the suggested tweaking soon.
I think he's in the 200 point range.

[quozl]

Lots of Bamfs! What do you think about letting him bamf and attack, then bamf and attack, then bamf and attack again?

EDIT: Duh, and now I notice you already do! It is a little confusing with all the bamfs. I suggest Teleport, Bamf Special Attack, and Evade for less confusion.

[IAmBatman]

Lots of Bamfs! What do you think about letting him bamf and attack, then bamf and attack, then bamf and attack again?

I think he thought of that one already and liked it ... ;) (Read the write up again).

[Griffin]

I don't think it was your intention, but currently, I can Bamf 3 times for my move, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, then Bamf 3 more times.

We need some major rewording of these powers to make them work the way I think you intended. Perhaps you should start by looking at the newest Marro Hero. He can teleport I think.

Gosh it has been a long time since I have played classic scape.

[quozl]

I don't think it was your intention, but currently, I can Bamf 3 times for my move, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, then Bamf 3 more times.

Maybe "instead of moving and attacking, Nightcrawler may Bamf up to three times"?

[Balantai]

I don't think it was your intention, but currently, I can Bamf 3 times for my move, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, then Bamf 3 more times.
I actually don't think it reads this way. Bamf! was written so that it's a stand alone ability. The last line states that instead of a normal move, he can Bamf! 3 times. The Special Attack says he can Bamf!, not move.

[IAmBatman]

I don't think it was your intention, but currently, I can Bamf 3 times for my move, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, then Bamf 3 more times.

We need some major rewording of these powers to make them work the way I think you intended. Perhaps you should start by looking at the newest Marro Hero. He can teleport I think.

Gosh it has been a long time since I have played classic scape.

I think you're reading it incorrectly. The way I'm reading it, he can Bamf! up to three times instead of moving, then he can attack once, then Bamf!, then attack a second time, then Bamf!, then attack a third time, then Bamf! and that's it.
I'm not sure how you're reading it the way you put.

[Balantai]

IWe need some major rewording of these powers to make them work the way I think you intended. Perhaps you should start by looking at the newest Marro Hero. He can teleport I think.

Can someone link this?

[IAmBatman]

BAMF!
To Bamf!, place Nightcrawler on any empty space within 3 (clear sight?) spaces of Nightcrawler. Instead of moving normally, Nightcrawler may Bamf! up to 3 times. Nightcrawler does not take leaving engagement attacks when using the Bamf! special power.

Does that help clear it up?

[Griffin]

I don't think it was your intention, but currently, I can Bamf 3 times for my move, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, then Bamf 3 more times.

We need some major rewording of these powers to make them work the way I think you intended. Perhaps you should start by looking at the newest Marro Hero. He can teleport I think.

Gosh it has been a long time since I have played classic scape.

I think you're reading it incorrectly. The way I'm reading it, he can Bamf! up to three times instead of moving, then he can attack once, then Bamf!, then attack a second time, then Bamf!, then attack a third time, then Bamf! and that's it.
I'm not sure how you're reading it the way you put.It was the line at the end of Bamf that allows you to use it 3 times. When the special attack allows me to use the power, at first glance, it is easy to read that you can use the full power. As Balantai pointed out though, the 3 times aspect is only used instead of a normal move.

[Balantai]

I think you're reading it incorrectly. The way I'm reading it, he can Bamf! up to three times instead of moving, then he can attack once, then Bamf!, then attack a second time, then Bamf!, then attack a third time, then Bamf! and that's it.
I'm not sure how you're reading it the way you put.
This might still be too much, but I'm optimistic that it won't be.

[Griffin]

LINK (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/showimage.php?i=3749&c=11)

[IAmBatman]

I don't think it was your intention, but currently, I can Bamf 3 times for my move, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, Bamf 3 more times, attack, then Bamf 3 more times.

We need some major rewording of these powers to make them work the way I think you intended. Perhaps you should start by looking at the newest Marro Hero. He can teleport I think.

Gosh it has been a long time since I have played classic scape.

I think you're reading it incorrectly. The way I'm reading it, he can Bamf! up to three times instead of moving, then he can attack once, then Bamf!, then attack a second time, then Bamf!, then attack a third time, then Bamf! and that's it.
I'm not sure how you're reading it the way you put.It was the line at the end of Bamf that allows you to use it 3 times. When the special attack allows me to use the power, at first glance, it is easy to read that you can use the full power. As Balantai pointed out though, the 3 times aspect is only used instead of a normal move.

Exactly.


I think you're reading it incorrectly. The way I'm reading it, he can Bamf! up to three times instead of moving, then he can attack once, then Bamf!, then attack a second time, then Bamf!, then attack a third time, then Bamf! and that's it.
I'm not sure how you're reading it the way you put.
This might still be too much, but I'm optimistic that it won't be.

What if we made his Bamf! a single move but upped it to a move of 4? He'd still get to Bamf! 4 times a turn due to his attack and Bamf! defensively as well.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... I just realized that with 4 life and 3 defense and Bamf! Evade working only on a 14 or higher, he's got a major glass jaw. So 200 is probably too high for him currently ... probably closer to 130-150? Do we want to lower the roll for Bamf! Evade? Or are we happy with him being pretty glass jawed?

[quozl]

LINK (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/showimage.php?i=3749&c=11)

(The above link is Tul-Bak-Ra's army card.)

Kumiko's card may also be helpful:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/showimage.php?i=3793&original=1&c=11

[Griffin]

As an opening statement, this line confuses the mess out of me:

BAMF!
Place Nightcrawler on any empty space within 3 spaces of Nightcrawler.

[IAmBatman]

BAMF!
To Bamf!, place Nightcrawler on any empty space within 3 (clear sight?) spaces of Nightcrawler. Instead of moving normally, Nightcrawler may Bamf! up to 3 times. Nightcrawler does not take leaving engagement attacks when using the Bamf! special power.

Does that help clear it up?

What do you think of my proposed rewrite, Griff?

[Balantai]

Hmm ... I just realized that with 4 life and 3 defense and Bamf! Evade working only on a 14 or higher, he's got a major glass jaw. So 200 is probably too high for him currently ... probably closer to 130-150? Do we want to lower the roll for Bamf! Evade? Or are we happy with him being pretty glass jawed?
I think I'd rather have Nightcrawler have a bit of a glass jaw.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... I just realized that with 4 life and 3 defense and Bamf! Evade working only on a 14 or higher, he's got a major glass jaw. So 200 is probably too high for him currently ... probably closer to 130-150? Do we want to lower the roll for Bamf! Evade? Or are we happy with him being pretty glass jawed?
I think I'd rather have Nightcrawler have a bit of a glass jaw.

Fair enough - he's definitely not worth 200 right now, though, I'd say. Maybe 140?

[Balantai]

Reworded:

BAMF!
Choose an empty space within 3 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, he may Bamf! up to 3 times.

[IAmBatman]

What do you think of the clear sight restriction? It sounds thematic to me based on my reading of him.

[GreyOwl]

You guys may want to check out the TNT Nightcrawler, too, just for ideas. We had worked out all of this bamf/attack/bamf/attack situation back in the day...

[Velenne]

So many 'bamf's I'm getting bamferloaded!

I like Devout. Height 6? I was expecting 4. Isn't he short or is he just always hunched over?

So you don't want him to be able to bamf with other figures?

I think thematically Bamf should be clear sight spaces unless you want it to be a d20-based power.

You may need to crop out the Movement part from the simple Bamf part, and simply include it in the special attack.

Ok I think I've got a grasp of what you're going for so here's how I would clarify it:


BAMF!
Choose an empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. Nightcrawler does not take leaving engagement strikes when he starts to Bamf!

BAMF! SPECIAL ATTACK
Range: 1 Attack: 4
Instead of moving and attacking normally with Nightcrawler, you may BAMF! up to three times. Each time you place Nightcrawler, you may attack once with Bamf! Special Attack.

BAMF! EVADE
If Nightcrawler is attacked by a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately Bamf!So he could move normally (for whatever reason) and then Bamf, or just use his special attack and not necessarily roll any dice, but still get the mobility out of it.

He seems to be Kumiko/Moriko territory here, with a decent defensive ability. I'd say 150'ish since 3 attacks of 4 is pretty good, but he's still a melee character.

[Balantai]

What do you think of the clear sight restriction? It sounds thematic to me based on my reading of him.
Can a space be within line of sight of a figure?

[Griffin]

BAMF!
To Bamf!, place Nightcrawler on any empty space within 3 (clear sight?) spaces of Nightcrawler. Instead of moving normally, Nightcrawler may Bamf! up to 3 times. Nightcrawler does not take leaving engagement attacks when using the Bamf! special power.

Does that help clear it up?

What do you think of my proposed rewrite, Griff?
I think this is much better sir:

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose any empty space that is within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

BAMF! SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
When Nightcrawler attacks with his Bamf! Special Attack, he may attack two additional times. After each attack, Nightcrawler may use his Bamf! special power.

[GreyOwl]

I'm not sure I like the idea of the special attack, because it's really a normal attack with moves in between, so I don't see the point in denying him height advantage, denying others counter strike, etc.

[Griffin]

BAMF! EVADE
If Nightcrawler is attacked by a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately use his Bamf! special power.
Fixed.

[Griffin]

I'm not sure I like the idea of the special attack, because it's really a normal attack with moves in between, so I don't see the point in denying him height advantage, denying others counter strike, etc.I really disagree. I think that his ability to barrage you with multiple attacks while Bamfing is pretty darn specialized.

[Balantai]

I'm not sure I like the idea of the special attack, because it's really a normal attack with moves in between, so I don't see the point in denying him height advantage, denying others counter strike, etc.
I actually see it as the opposite, GreyOwl. I think he should bypass counterstrike and height advantage. When he's Bamf-ing and attacking, figures are getting hit before they have a chance to react. He's basically getting every advantage he can get on every attack.

[IAmBatman]

What do you think of the clear sight restriction? It sounds thematic to me based on my reading of him.
Can a space be within line of sight of a figure?

Good point ...

I'm not sure I like the idea of the special attack, because it's really a normal attack with moves in between, so I don't see the point in denying him height advantage, denying others counter strike, etc.

Hmm ... excellent point. What if the Bamf! after each time you attack part was folded into his Bamf! movement power and we just gave him triple attack?

I liked the idea of a power like this for him (but not more than I like the three powers he already has):

TELEPORT AWAY
Before using Nightcrawler's Bamf! special power, choose any figure adjacent to Nightcrawler. After you place Nightcrawler, place the chosen figure adjacent to Nightcrawler. If the chosen figure is engaged before being teleported, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

[Balantai]

BAMF! EVADE
If Nightcrawler is attacked by a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately use his Bamf! special power.
Fixed.
Updated.

[quozl]

How committed are you to the names? Because all the Bamfs are really confusing to me.

[Balantai]

TELEPORT AWAY
Before using Nightcrawler's Bamf! special power, choose any figure adjacent to Nightcrawler. After you place Nightcrawler, place the chosen figure adjacent to Nightcrawler. If the chosen figure is engaged before being teleported, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
I would really like to get a "Carry" ability on this card, but I don't think sacraficing one of the other abilities is worth it.

[Balantai]

How committed are you to the names? Because all the Bamfs are really confusing to me.
I'm not committed to anything. That's the thing about C3G. Everything is editable.

[IAmBatman]

TELEPORT AWAY
Before using Nightcrawler's Bamf! special power, choose any figure adjacent to Nightcrawler. After you place Nightcrawler, place the chosen figure adjacent to Nightcrawler. If the chosen figure is engaged before being teleported, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
I would really like to get a "Carry" ability on this card, but I don't think sacraficing one of the other abilities is worth it.

Agreed ... is this one a candidate for four powers or is that overkill?
Hmm ... Blink will eventually likely be able to teleport others. Maybe we should just let her fill that role and keep him as is.
Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there. :-D I do prefer his current power set.

[Balantai]

Agreed ... is this one a candidate for four powers or is that overkill?
Hmm ... Blink will eventually likely be able to teleport others. Maybe we should just let her fill that role and keep him as is.
Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there. :-D I do prefer his current power set.
Also, Angel can Carry, and most likely Shadowcat will be able Carry as well.

[IAmBatman]

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose any empty space that is within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

BAMF! SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
When Nightcrawler attacks with his Bamf! Special Attack, he may attack two additional times. After each attack, Nightcrawler may use his Bamf! special power.

I think I like these write ups the best so far. And you guys have sold me on why his attack is "special."
Also, he doesn't need to be any more vulnerable to defensive powers like counter strike ...

[Balantai]

Since we changed Bamf! to only occur once, we can probably roll Carry into it. What do you guys think? We would need to specify in the Special Attack that he couldn't Carry anyone, though.

[GreyOwl]

I really disagree. I think that his ability to barrage you with multiple attacks while Bamfing is pretty darn specialized.

But it isn't a different attack or weapon, i.e., he's still hitting with his fists. What's the thematic difference between what the special attack represents and his normal attack, especially since he can teleport before his normal attack, too?

With Kumiko, it actually represents her using different weapons, here there's no such difference.

I really like the idea of giving him a triple attack, and saying he can teleport between attacks.

[Griffin]

Since we changed Bamf! to only occur once, we can probably roll Carry into it. What do you guys think? We would need to specify in the Special Attack that he couldn't Carry anyone, though.I think that could be very messy, and I don't really need him to carry. Besides, I like Nightcrawler as a one trick pony that costs considerably lower than his other X-Men counterparts.

[Balantai]

But it isn't a different attack or weapon, i.e., he's still hitting with his fists. What's the thematic difference between what the special attack represents and his normal attack, especially since he can teleport before his normal attack, too?

With Kumiko, it actually represents her using different weapons, here there's no such difference.

I really like the idea of giving him a triple attack, and saying he can teleport between attacks.
But quick attacks are represented as Special Attacks in Heroscape.

[Griffin]

I really disagree. I think that his ability to barrage you with multiple attacks while Bamfing is pretty darn specialized.

But it isn't a different attack or weapon, i.e., he's still hitting with his fists. What's the thematic difference between what the special attack represents and his normal attack, especially since he can teleport before his normal attack, too?

With Kumiko, it actually represents her using different weapons, here there's no such difference.

I really like the idea of giving him a triple attack, and saying he can teleport between attacks.Honestly, I have been sitting here comparing the differences, and although I prefer the special attack for the reason of mid to low level heroes getting around defensive powers, I could go either way. But I still prefer the mechanic of mid heroes having special attacks.

[Griffin]

Also, the X-Men have consistently used Nightcrawler to use his special abilities to find weaknesses in powerful villains.

[IAmBatman]

I really disagree. I think that his ability to barrage you with multiple attacks while Bamfing is pretty darn specialized.

But it isn't a different attack or weapon, i.e., he's still hitting with his fists. What's the thematic difference between what the special attack represents and his normal attack, especially since he can teleport before his normal attack, too?

With Kumiko, it actually represents her using different weapons, here there's no such difference.

I really like the idea of giving him a triple attack, and saying he can teleport between attacks.

Moriko (Saber Storm SA), Abomination and Hulk (Stomp SA), and Jotun (Wild Swing SA) are all using their normal weapons - just fists and feet for the last three - but they're using them in very specific, distinct ways. That's what's going on with Bamf! Special Attack - when he attacks during a Bamf! series, it changes how his attack is delivered and makes it special, IMO.

[GreyOwl]

But quick attacks are represented as Special Attacks in Heroscape.

How so? Why would Double Attack be any "slower" than a special attack that lets you attack twice?

[IAmBatman]

Since we changed Bamf! to only occur once, we can probably roll Carry into it. What do you guys think? We would need to specify in the Special Attack that he couldn't Carry anyone, though.I think that could be very messy, and I don't really need him to carry. Besides, I like Nightcrawler as a one trick pony that costs considerably lower than his other X-Men counterparts.

I agree with this.

[Griffin]

But it isn't a different attack or weapon, i.e., he's still hitting with his fists. What's the thematic difference between what the special attack represents and his normal attack, especially since he can teleport before his normal attack, too?

With Kumiko, it actually represents her using different weapons, here there's no such difference.

I really like the idea of giving him a triple attack, and saying he can teleport between attacks.
But quick attacks are represented as Special Attacks in Heroscape.
I think you are right Balantai. Kaemon Awa has a normal attack with his Bow, but he also has a Quick Release Special Attack that is special because it is quick.

[Balantai]

But quick attacks are represented as Special Attacks in Heroscape.

How so? Why would Double Attack be any "slower" than a special attack that lets you attack twice?
The theme revolves around seeing the attack coming. Much like Awa (http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10009/KaemonAwa.jpg), it's a Special Attack because he can catch you off guard with it.

EDIT: Ninja Griff!

[GreyOwl]

Moriko (Saber Storm SA), Abomination and Hulk (Stomp SA), and Jotun (Wild Swing SA) are all using their normal weapons - just fists and feet for the last three - but they're using them in very specific, distinct ways. That's what's going on with Bamf! Special Attack - when he attacks during a Bamf! series, it changes how his attack is delivered and makes it special, IMO.

Moriko uses sabers instead of fists - special
Abomination and Hulk stomp the ground instead of punching the opponent - special
Jotun does a crazy swing of his sword instead of stabbing/cutting, or punching - special

Nightcrawler teleports once then attacks - normal, Nightcrawler does that same thing twice - special....? I just don't see the difference. :confused: It's the same thing he does with his normal attack, done more often.

[GreyOwl]

The theme revolves around seeing the attack coming. Much like Awa (http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10009/KaemonAwa.jpg), it's a Special Attack because he can catch you off guard with it.

So why are they more likely to see the attack coming when he teleports before his normal attack?

[IAmBatman]

Moriko (Saber Storm SA), Abomination and Hulk (Stomp SA), and Jotun (Wild Swing SA) are all using their normal weapons - just fists and feet for the last three - but they're using them in very specific, distinct ways. That's what's going on with Bamf! Special Attack - when he attacks during a Bamf! series, it changes how his attack is delivered and makes it special, IMO.

Moriko uses sabers instead of fists - special
Abomination and Hulk stomp the ground instead of punching the opponent - special
Jotun does a crazy swing of his sword instead of stabbing/cutting, or punching - special

Nightcrawler teleports once then attacks - normal, Nightcrawler does that same thing twice - special....? I just don't see the difference. :confused: It's the same thing he does with his normal attack, done more often.

Nightcrawler zips all over the board attacking multiple times in a single turn - special.

[IAmBatman]

But ... he wouldn't ever have a reason to use his normal attack right now - should Bamf! be at 3 and his normal attack at 4?

[GreyOwl]

I think you are right Balantai. Kaemon Awa has a normal attack with his Bow, but he also has a Quick Release Special Attack that is special because it is quick.

A quick release is a Japanese archery technique, where you hold 2 arrows in your same hand, fire one, notch the other, and fire in quick succession. It's not the same thing as a normal shot done twice, which is why the range is lower, because the technique reduces power.

[Balantai]

Moriko uses sabers instead of fists - special
Abomination and Hulk stomp the ground instead of punching the opponent - special
Jotun does a crazy swing of his sword instead of stabbing/cutting, or punching - special

Nightcrawler teleports once then attacks - normal, Nightcrawler does that same thing twice - special....? I just don't see the difference. :confused: It's the same thing he does with his normal attack, done more often.
I see what you're saying, now. But I don't envision it this way. I see his normal attack as an attack that is forseeable. The Special Attack represents the White House scene in X-Men 2 or the Doom Bot scene in Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

[Balantai]

But ... he wouldn't ever have a reason to use his normal attack right now - should Bamf! be at 3 and his normal attack at 4?
I don't think this makes sense, thematically. I can see maybe upping his normal attack to 4, but I don't think his Bamf! special attack should be weaker than his normal.

[IAmBatman]

But ... he wouldn't ever have a reason to use his normal attack right now - should Bamf! be at 3 and his normal attack at 4?
I don't think this makes sense, thematically. I can see maybe upping his normal attack to 4, but I don't think his Bamf! attack should be any weaker.

Why not? When he's Bamfing around, he's swinging wildly, and isn't as likely to be aware where his targets are. It's kind of like with Jotun - his normal attack is focused and fierce, but when he swings wildly, he hits more targets for less damage.

[Balantai]

GreyOwl,

I'd love to see what kind of write-up you have for doing this as a normal attack. Giving something to compare to might help sway me.

Although I still think it makes sense that it's a Special Attack.

[Balantai]

Why not? When he's Bamfing around, he's swinging wildly, and isn't as likely to be aware where his targets are. It's kind of like with Jotun - his normal attack is focused and fierce, but when he swings wildly, he hits more targets for less damage.
I think I just picture him differently than you guys. I don't see anything wild about his Bamf! attacks. They always seem to be extremely accurate.

[GreyOwl]

Well instead of typing it all up, I can just refer you to the TNT Nightcrawler (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.jpg), where I did it as a normal attack. The mechanics of the teleportation are different, but it could easily be adapted to fit your method.

[Griffin]

Balantai, if you want a special attack of 4, I will support you in that, but would you consider upping his normal attack to 5 to give it some more use?

Just to be clear here as well, with the special attack at 4 and the normal attack at 5 he is going to cost around 140-150 points. With the special attack at 3 and the normal attack at 4 he is going to cost around 120-130 points. Thought you may want to consider that before responding. Either way, what ever direction you want to go in, you have my support, they both work for me. :up:

[Balantai]

Well instead of typing it all up, I can just refer you to the TNT Nightcrawler (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.jpg), where I did it as a normal attack. The mechanics of the teleportation are different, but it could easily be adapted to fit your method.
Okay. After lunch I'll try to write something up using a normal attack instead of a Special Attack.

[Griffin]

Why not? When he's Bamfing around, he's swinging wildly, and isn't as likely to be aware where his targets are. It's kind of like with Jotun - his normal attack is focused and fierce, but when he swings wildly, he hits more targets for less damage.
I think I just picture him differently than you guys. I don't see anything wild about his Bamf! attacks. They always seem to be extremely accurate.I actually agree with you there. He is more of a surgeon with his deadly accurate attacks. He is a master swordsman after all.

[Balantai]

Balantai, if you want a special attack of 4, I will support you in that, but would you consider upping his normal attack to 5 to give it some more use?

Just to be clear here as well, with the special attack at 4 and the normal attack at 5 he is going to cost around 140-150 points. With the special attack at 3 and the normal attack at 4 he is going to cost around 120-130 points. Thought you may want to consider that before responding. Either way, what ever direction you want to go in, you have my support, they both work for me. :up:
I'm actually much more interested in what everyone else wants. I don't mind scrapping my vision for the team. I want to make everyone happy. :D

[Griffin]

Well instead of typing it all up, I can just refer you to the TNT Nightcrawler (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.jpg), where I did it as a normal attack. The mechanics of the teleportation are different, but it could easily be adapted to fit your method.
Okay. After lunch I'll try to write something up using a normal attack instead of a Special Attack.
Why? I thought you preferred the special attack. :confused:

[GreyOwl]

I actually agree with you there. He is more of a surgeon with his deadly accurate attacks. He is a master swordsman after all.

I agree. His attacks never seems wild or out of control, but rather extremely precise and well-planned out.

[Balantai]

I actually agree with you there. He is more of a surgeon with his deadly accurate attacks. He is a master swordsman after all.
I would love to use the mini that uses the sword, but it's silly expensive. :evil:

[Griffin]

Balantai, if you want a special attack of 4, I will support you in that, but would you consider upping his normal attack to 5 to give it some more use?

Just to be clear here as well, with the special attack at 4 and the normal attack at 5 he is going to cost around 140-150 points. With the special attack at 3 and the normal attack at 4 he is going to cost around 120-130 points. Thought you may want to consider that before responding. Either way, what ever direction you want to go in, you have my support, they both work for me. :up:
I'm actually much more interested in what everyone else wants. I don't mind scrapping my vision for the team. I want to make everyone happy. :DIf you don't care about your vision, then I would say that you don't have one, and I feel slightly cheated by that since you are a designer.

[quozl]

Well instead of typing it all up, I can just refer you to the TNT Nightcrawler (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.jpg), where I did it as a normal attack. The mechanics of the teleportation are different, but it could easily be adapted to fit your method.

I like Balantai's version much better.

[Balantai]

Why? I thought you preferred the special attack. :confused:
I do prefer the Special Attack. But I'd like to give C3G some options.

[IAmBatman]

Well ... it seems Balantai, Griffin, and I all see it as more of a Special Attack and GreyOwl sees it more as a Normal Attack. It seems like perhaps we should wait and see some more people weigh in on this one?

Edit: Quozl seems to prefer the special attack as well.

[Griffin]

Well instead of typing it all up, I can just refer you to the TNT Nightcrawler (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/NIGHTCRAWLER.jpg), where I did it as a normal attack. The mechanics of the teleportation are different, but it could easily be adapted to fit your method.

I like Balantai's version much better.
I strongly agree. That TNT version doesn't do it for me at all.

[GreyOwl]

Well, since everyone but me seems to prefer the special attack, I would say just go with the special attack and save yourself some time.

[Balantai]

If you don't care about your vision, then I would say that you don't have one, and I feel slightly cheated by that since you are a designer.
Of course I care about my vision. And if I feel as though it NEEDS to be a Special Attack, I can go to my custom thread and make him there. This is a collaborative effort and I gave my draft. If I can make changes that makes everyone happy, it's better for the community.

[IAmBatman]

Well, since everyone but me seems to prefer the special attack, I would say just go with the special attack and save yourself some time.

It's early - there's really only four of us talking right now. Why not wait and see what some of the other heroes and sidekicks have to say?

[Griffin]

Well, since everyone but me seems to prefer the special attack, I would say just go with the special attack and save yourself some time.OK. :D Good luck convincing Balantai that he is right though.... I swear he likes to drag things on even we his opinions are popular. :?

[GreyOwl]

I strongly agree. That TNT version doesn't do it for me at all.

As you would say, you should play him first. ;) He's quite fun, especially vs. the Flash. Flash trying to zip away after his 2-3 attacks, and Nightcrawler bamf-ing up to catch him is pretty entertaining. :)

[Balantai]

It's early - there's really only four of us talking right now. Why not wait and see what some of the other heroes and sidekicks have to say?
Quoted for truthiness. :lol:

[Griffin]

I strongly agree. That TNT version doesn't do it for me at all.

As you would say, you should play him first. ;) He's quite fun, especially vs. the Flash. Flash trying to zip away after his 2-3 attacks, and Nightcrawler bamf-ing up to catch him is pretty entertaining. :)
I can see that he would be fun. I love rolling the D20 and hoping for the best, I really do. I just don't see Nightcrawler's Bamfing ability as being mystical or skillful, it is just like normal walking for him. That is why it doesn't work for me. I think the Bamf should be more standard mechanical and less random lucky.

[Balantai]

.... I swear he likes to drag things on even we his opinions are popular. :?
That's right. And I'm dragging you through the mud with me.

[GreyOwl]

I strongly agree. That TNT version doesn't do it for me at all.

As you would say, you should play him first. ;) He's quite fun, especially vs. the Flash. Flash trying to zip away after his 2-3 attacks, and Nightcrawler bamf-ing up to catch him is pretty entertaining. :)
I can see that he would be fun. I love rolling the D20 and hoping for the best, I really do. I just don't see Nightcrawler's Bamfing ability as being mystical or skillful, it is just like normal walking for him. That is why it doesn't work for me. I think the Bamf should be more standard mechanical and less random lucky.

It's not like he can fail, though. The absolute worst he can do is what the proposed C3G version does automatically (4 spaces), but sometimes he can do a lot more, which can lead to interesting situations.

[quozl]

To me, the thing that makes Balantai's version much more appealing is that he can teleport after attacking and he can do that multiple times. That says "Nightcrawler" to me more than anything else.

[Griffin]

.... I swear he likes to drag things on even we his opinions are popular. :?
That's right. And I'm dragging you through the mud with me.
But to me, productivity is more important than the quest for universal happiness. And that is because I am a task oriented D-bag. :roll:

Hey one very cool thing is we are approaching page 8 on day one, so I guess Nightcrawler is pretty important to us all.

[Griffin]

Ha! Page 8!

[GreyOwl]

To me, the thing that makes Balantai's version much more appealing is that he can teleport after attacking and he can do that multiple times. That says "Nightcrawler" to me more than anything else.

They both can do that.

[quozl]

To me, the thing that makes Balantai's version much more appealing is that he can teleport after attacking and he can do that multiple times. That says "Nightcrawler" to me more than anything else.

They both can do that.

I read it so that the TNT version can only teleport once instead of one of his three attacks.

[GreyOwl]

Ah, that would explain it. And since the teleport is instead of an attack, not a move, he still gets to move. So he could move, attack, teleport, attack. Or move, teleport (to cover a LOT of ground), then attack, then teleport, etc.

But for this version, I wouldn't suggest having the teleport be instead of the attack.

[Velenne]

Good grief, 8 pages already? I don't even know where we're at anymore...

[Balantai]

Good grief, 8 pages already? I don't even know where we're at anymore...
The first page is updated. :D

[IAmBatman]

I like the comic art ... I'm still not digging his special attack being 4 and his normal attack being 3 - he'll never use the normal one.

[mrcrimson]

What sculpt is everyone leaning towards? They've got a really cool one with a sword but is really expensive, then they got the mid bamf one, which would probably be appropriate considering all the bamf drops on the card.

[IAmBatman]

What sculpt is everyone leaning towards? They've got a really cool one with a sword but is really expensive, then they got the mid bamf one, which would probably be appropriate considering all the bamf drops on the card.

I could go for either one for the card - I'll definitely be using Bamf! myself.

[Balantai]

I like the comic art ... I'm still not digging his special attack being 4 and his normal attack being 3 - he'll never use the normal one.
Sorry. I forgot to make that update. Corrected.

[Balantai]

What sculpt is everyone leaning towards? They've got a really cool one with a sword but is really expensive, then they got the mid bamf one, which would probably be appropriate considering all the bamf drops on the card.
We almost have to go with the Bamf! version just because of the price of the other mini.

[IAmBatman]

I don't think that's necessarily true - people could easily still use him with the other figure, we'd just be putting the expensive figure on the card.
Still, the Bamf! figure might fit this card better anyway.
I'd say right now he's at 130 - he compares favorably with Kaemon Awa - a little bit more offense and mobility, but a little less staying power and range. I'd give him the edge on KA, though, so 130 seems about right.
I'm still not sure he'd use the normal attack very often, but I'm OK with that. It at least seems plausible now.

[NecroBlade]

Alright, there are a ridiculous number of comments already, so I'm just going to post my thoughts on what's on the front page.

On my custom Nightcrawler, I have LoS incorporated into his teleporting, but I very much like this version without it.

I don't like that he can currently Bamf, attack, Bamf, attack, Bamf, attack, Bamf. That's just too much, IMO. Here's what I laid out to Griffin a while back, similar to my custom Nightcrawler:

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose an empty space within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Nightcrawler moves using Bamf!, he may move using Bamf! one additional time.

BAMF! STRIKE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
If Nightcrawler did not attack normally this turn, he may immediately attack with Bamf! Strike Special Attack after each time he moves using Bamf!

With these changes, Kurt would be able to Bamf! twice and attack twice on his own turn, as well as Bamf! twice and attack twice after rolling a 14+ for Evade.

If you want to make his normal attack more desirable, you could lower his Bamf Attack to 3, but I liked it when his normal attack was 3 and Bamf was 4 (it's a surprise attack after all).

Bamf Evade is fine, but I think it could lose the 'normal' restriction.

[Balantai]

Is it the triple attack or the 12 Bamf! spaces that you don't like?

[NecroBlade]

Both. It's way too much to do in one turn, IMO. (And it's 16 spaces, since he Bamfs first, then once after each of the 3 attacks.)

[Balantai]

Both. It's way too much to do in one turn, IMO. (And it's 16 spaces, since he Bamfs first, then once after each of the 3 attacks.)
Well since he can only Bamf! after he attacks, it's a pretty isolated. In order to Bamf! across the battlefield, he would need a figure every 4 spaces.

Personally, I don't see anything terribly wrong with three attacks, but I don't really have too much of an issue with pushing it down to double attack.

[Balantai]

What if we reduced Bamf! to 3 spaces?

[NecroBlade]

That'd be a little better, but it's more the fact that you get to do it FOUR times in a turn than the number of spaces, for me.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Wow, just read 9, yes, 9 pages of comments! Good stuff on Nightcrawler so far. I think everyone's vision of Nightcrawler seems about right. I kinda see the issue with SA and normal attack and when would you use it. The answer is when powers are negated as Rogue or Artie Maddocks can.

While reading, I had just a few thoughts:
One, Nightcrawler is as quick as Spidey, except he can disappear at the speed of light, where as Spidey's Spider Sense may be as fast as the Speed of Light, but he still has to move at his normal rate after being warned. For this reason I feel Evade should be at least as high a probablity as Spidey-Sense.

Second, I had this crazy idea to roll Bamf! and Bamf! SA into one power. Something like this:
Bamf!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler you may choose a space within 3 clear sight spaces of Nightcrawler and place him on this space. You may move this way up to three times. Nightcrawler may attack before, during, or after movement. If he only attacks after moving with Bamf!, you may add one attack die to each attack roll this turn. Nightcrawler may carry any figure that begins Nightcrawler's turn adjacent to Nightcrawler with him when he uses Bamf! as long as he has not attacked this turn.

Triple Attack
Nightcrawler may attack up to three times each turn.

Evade 11
(Spidey Sense wording with specification of moving via Bamf! one time.)


Not sure after working out wording that I like it, but I wanted to share it. Definately too wordy, but its an idea. :2cents:

[Balantai]

It sounds like Spidey is in favor of representing Nightcrawler's attacks as normal instead of Special. Anybody else?

Special Attack:
Bats
Griff
Me

Normal Attack:
GreyOwl
Spidey

[NecroBlade]

How's this, Spidey?

BAMF!
Instead of moving and attacking normally, Nightcrawler may use Bamf! up to 3 times. To Bamf!, place Nightcrawler on an empty space within 3 spaces, then Nightcrawler may immediately attack and add 1 attack die. If Nightcrawler is engaged prior to moving, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

And I'm all for lowering Evade to Spidey-Sense level. (And a carry line in Bamf! wouldn't be bad, but I was simplifying the rest of the wording for now.)

[quozl]

A Kumiko version of Bamf!:

Bamf! Barrage Special Attack
Range 1 Attack 4

Instead of moving and attacking normally with Nightcrawler, you may move Nightcrawler up to 9 spaces. Nightcrawler can attack up to 3 times with Bamf! Barrage Special Attack at any point before, during, or after this move as long as Nightcrawler is on a space where he can end his movement.

Stealth Flying (to represent his teleporting)

[Balantai]

Stealth Flying (to represent his teleporting)
Band-aids like this will end up biting us in the future. For instance, what happens when Storm prevents people from flying due to her hurricane winds?

[IAmBatman]

Stealth Flying on Nightcrawler? Um ... no.
I like the triple attack/quadruple Bamf! I don't think it's too much simply because that's pretty much all he does. Anything less would feel a little light for the character, honestly. I guess I see this as a "go big or go home" moment.
How much would you cost the current version at, Necro?

[NecroBlade]

He's really hard to cost as is. 140 might be OK, but it might be too low. I don't know.

[Balantai]

Would you have an issue with a Flash custom that can move 12 spaces and attack 3 times at any point during it's move? Essentially, Nightcrawler's powers are a limited version of the same thing.

[IAmBatman]

Would you have an issue with a Flash custom that can move 12 spaces and attack 3 times at any point during it's move? Essentially, Nightcrawler's powers are a limited version of the same thing.

I would ... but I don't think he's as bad as this. :-) I actually like where the C3G Flash (if the hints I've gotten are any indication) a lot better than what's described there.
But I don't think either are broken.

[NecroBlade]

That's one reason I want to see it toned down in some way; he shouldn't be faster than (or probably even as fast as) Flash. I also think there are more elegant ways to pull this off, see Spidey & my suggestions.

[quozl]

Stealth Flying (to represent his teleporting)
Band-aids like this will end up biting us in the future. For instance, what happens when Storm prevents people from flying due to her hurricane winds?

Actually, I would advocate using the stealth flying wording (or something similar) for Teleport, not using the Stealth Flying power. That way, you don't have to word it as "instead of moving normally". It would be his normal movement.

[Balantai]

That's one reason I want to see it toned down in some way; he shouldn't be faster than (or probably even as fast as) Flash. I also think there are more elegant ways to pull this off, see Spidey & my suggestions.
What I don't like about your write up is that the Special Attack occurs during the movement phase. If I read the Bamf! movement ability and moved Nightcrawler, then read the Special Attack, I wouldn't be able to use it correctly because I already moved. That seems backwards.

[Balantai]

Stealth Flying (to represent his teleporting)
Band-aids like this will end up biting us in the future. For instance, what happens when Storm prevents people from flying due to her hurricane winds?

Actually, I would advocate using the stealth flying wording (or something similar) for Teleport, not using the Stealth Flying power. That way, you don't have to word it as "instead of moving normally". It would be his normal movement.
There's no nead. We have official wording for Teleport.

[IAmBatman]

That's one reason I want to see it toned down in some way; he shouldn't be faster than (or probably even as fast as) Flash. I also think there are more elegant ways to pull this off, see Spidey & my suggestions.

He's not faster over long distances unless his enemies line up really right, though. He's just faster darting around the battle in a small area (which seems perfectly thematic given that he's teleporting rather than running).

[quozl]

Stealth Flying (to represent his teleporting)
Band-aids like this will end up biting us in the future. For instance, what happens when Storm prevents people from flying due to her hurricane winds?

Actually, I would advocate using the stealth flying wording (or something similar) for Teleport, not using the Stealth Flying power. That way, you don't have to word it as "instead of moving normally". It would be his normal movement.
There's no nead. We have official wording for Teleport.

The need would be in order to word his special attack better like the Kumiko version I typed out.

[Velenne]

Could you give him a normal attack of 4, but make his Bamf a d20-based 'Special Ability' like Braxas?

Something like quotzl started with (http://heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1043948&postcount=107), but roll the 20 up to 3 times? If it hits, it does a wound. If he wants to do more than 1-3 wounds, he uses his normal attack.

[IAmBatman]

Could you give him a normal attack of 4, but make his Bamf a d20-based 'Special Ability' like Braxas?

Something like quotzl started with (http://heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1043948&postcount=107), but roll the 20 up to 3 times? If it hits, it does a wound. If he wants to do more than 1-3 wounds, he uses his normal attack.

That's an interesting idea ... but I'm not sure if I like the idea of him being able to just bypass defenses of any level with his fists.

[NecroBlade]

That's one reason I want to see it toned down in some way; he shouldn't be faster than (or probably even as fast as) Flash. I also think there are more elegant ways to pull this off, see Spidey & my suggestions.

He's not faster over long distances unless his enemies line up really right, though. He's just faster darting around the battle in a small area (which seems perfectly thematic given that he's teleporting rather than running).
That's fine, as long as he's not Bamfing 16 spaces.

That's one reason I want to see it toned down in some way; he shouldn't be faster than (or probably even as fast as) Flash. I also think there are more elegant ways to pull this off, see Spidey & my suggestions.
What I don't like about your write up is that the Special Attack occurs during the movement phase. If I read the Bamf! movement ability and moved Nightcrawler, then read the Special Attack, I wouldn't be able to use it correctly because I already moved. That seems backwards.
What are you talking about? The attack says use immediately after moving, so if you already moved, that's exactly when you'd be using the attack...unless you mean you read the whole movement power, used it, THEN read the special attack...in which case read the whole dang card before you play it. :p Not to mention that EVERY possibly variation of this teleporting attack idea essentially has attacks occuring during the movement phase.

[IAmBatman]

I think I like the current version with a reduction of Bamf! back to its original move of 3. That reduce his total Bamfing to 12 spaces.

[Velenne]

Let me flesh that out a little more:

Start by giving him an attack of 4.

BAMF!
Instead of moving and attacking normally, you may move up to 7 spaces, ignoring elevations. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Nightcrawler may Bamf! over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and Bamf! over obstacles such as ruins. When Nightcrawler passes over an opponent's figure, you may roll 20-sided die. Subtract that figure's Defense value from your roll. If the result is a 10 or higher, the opponent's figure receives one wound.

Evasive Teleport
(essentially as per Spidey Sense)

[IAmBatman]

That's just a bit too messy for my taste ... also, my D20 wounding still isn't something I like for aforementioned reasons.

[NecroBlade]

Auto-wounds are still an absolute no-go, IMO.

Running with the Kumiko idea...

Bamf! Barrage Special Attack
Range 1. Attack 4.
Instead of moving and attacking normally with Nightcrawler, you may move Nightcrawler up to 9 spaces. Nightcrawler can attack up to 3 times with Bamf! Barrage Special Attack at any point before, during, or after this move as long as Nightcrawler is on a space where he can end his movement. When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's Bamf! Barrage movement, ignore elevations. Nightcrawler may pass over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and pass over obstacles such as ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Put the flying wording in there, and then...

Bamf! Evade 11
If Nightcrawler is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-10, roll defense dice normally. If you roll 11-20, Nightcrawler takes no damage and you may immediately place Nightcrawler on any empty space within 3 spaces. If Nightcrawler is engaged prior to moving, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

[IAmBatman]

He's not flying though, he's teleporting ... Heroscape has established different mechanics for each of these, and I think we should follow that precedent.

[NecroBlade]

Except that the teleporting Balantai has in the first post is closer to 3-space flying than teleportation...

[IAmBatman]

Really? Cuz this:

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose an empty space within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Reads a lot like Heroscape teleporting to me ...

[Velenne]

Sonlen does auto-wounds. Braxas does auto-kills. :shrug:

He's not flying though, he's teleporting ... Heroscape has established different mechanics for each of these, and I think we should follow that precedent.

Which brings us back to THIS (http://heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1043895&postcount=98).

[NecroBlade]

Bats, Bats, Bats...

Flying: When counting spaces for Mimring's movement, ignore elevations. Mimring may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When Mimring starts to fly, if he is engaged he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Teleportation: Instead of moving Tul-Bak-Ra normally, you may choose any empty space that is on the same level and within 10 spaces of Tul-Bak-Ra. Place Tul-Bak-Ra on the chosen space. When Tul-Bak-Ra starts to Teleport, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

There is currently nothing in Nightcrawler's power that limits levels...

[Velenne]

So you'd like Wolvie (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29554)to have the same healing factor, as well as Doomsday and potentially Sabretooth?

[NecroBlade]

Yes, it'd be a lot simpler, and there's not enough difference between various characters' healing factors to matter when you simplify for HS, IMO.

But wrong thread. ;)

[Velenne]

Ugh, crap, sorry. Too many threads all at once! It's a c3gasm.

[IAmBatman]

Bats, Bats, Bats...

Flying: When counting spaces for Mimring's movement, ignore elevations. Mimring may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When Mimring starts to fly, if he is engaged he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

Teleportation: Instead of moving Tul-Bak-Ra normally, you may choose any empty space that is on the same level and within 10 spaces of Tul-Bak-Ra. Place Tul-Bak-Ra on the chosen space. When Tul-Bak-Ra starts to Teleport, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

There is currently nothing in Nightcrawler's power that limits levels...

There's also currently nothing in Nightcrawler's power that specifies elevations, water, figures, obstacles such as ruins, etc. It's all about placing versus moving. With teleportation, you place the figure on a space and don't even think about anything between the spaces. With flying, you actually move them. I know it doesn't seem like much of a difference in terms of actual gameplay, but it's a big difference in wording and the overall feel of it, IMO.
Also ... do you really like the idea of Nightcrawler being limited by levels? I always thought that was sort of stupid in the official Teleportation power. Since when can you only teleport to even ground?

[NecroBlade]

I DON'T like the idea of limiting elevations, and with unlimited elevations...well, that's flying. Sure it's not a point-to-point placement, but it accomplishes exactly the same thing (and if it helps, think of it as point-to-point placement, one space at a time...which works just fine thematically for me :up:).

[IAmBatman]

I DON'T like the idea of limiting elevations, and with unlimited elevations...well, that's flying. Sure it's not a point-to-point placement, but it accomplishes exactly the same thing (and if it helps, think of it as point-to-point placement, one space at a time...which works just fine thematically for me :up:).

What's wrong with using the exact wording on the Teleportation power without the elevation limitation?

[NecroBlade]

Nothing, I just added the flying wording to the special attack since the teleportation wording wouldn't work there. :frustrated:

[IAmBatman]

Nothing, I just added the flying wording to the special attack since the teleportation wording wouldn't work there. :frustrated:

Gotcha ... I think for that reason (and others) that it's better to just make the Bamf! teleportation power a separate power and then refer to the power in the text of the attack ... basically I'm asking what's really wrong with the current write up? Cuz it works for me.

[NecroBlade]

The same reason Balantai didn't like my suggestion I guess...you're putting some of his movement power in the special attack. Which is why I (and others I think) like Spidey (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1043947&postcount=106) or quozl's (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1044002&postcount=125) suggestions better. (i.e. Put it all in the same power.)

[quozl]

basically I'm asking what's really wrong with the current write up? Cuz it works for me.

The only thing "wrong" with it is that if you're six spaces away from your opponent, you can only BAMF once or move normally. I think it would be much cooler if Nightcrawler could move 9 spaces with BAMF and could attack three times while moving.

Hmm...maybe we should look at the Wyvern's Grab power for the wording here if people don't want to use Kumiko's wording.

[NecroBlade]

I thought of that, too, based on Velenne's suggestions, but I think I like your Kumiko idea best so far.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I am not opposed to the current wording, but I see where using his regular attack becomes something of an issue if SA and Normal Attack are equal. I think this is not really what we want. So I was merely trying to find a way to seperate them. I have had another idea. I am not sure I know how to word it, but the basic idea is that first Nightcrawler Bamf's 4 spaces, then if he is adjacent to an enemy he may roll an unblockable attack die, then Bamf again, attack again, etc. I think it would be a SA with the unblockable die which allows use of Bamf! a single time. It would also limit to three uses. Bamf! would be a single teleport and could actually just be Teleport then. Bamf! SA would be the name of single die attack and represent the element of surprise also allowing for his normal attack to be a single higher attack. Am I crazy here?

EDIT: attempt to reword:

TELEPORT 4
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose an empty space within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Teleport, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.


BAMF! SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 1.
When Nightcrawler attacks with his Bamf! Special Attack, opponents may not roll defense. Nightcrawler may use his Bamf! Special Attack up to three times per turn. Nightcrawler must use Teleport after each time he attacks.

[Hahma]

Goodness gracious this has been a lot of catching up to do, I'm afraid poor Matt Helm, A3n, Sir Galahad and Adam Souza will be overwhelmed when they get a chance to try and catch up.

Anyway, I had kind of liked this version that I had first read, after I guess some changes had been made.

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose an empty space within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

BAMF! SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
When Nightcrawler attacks with his Bamf! Special Attack, he may attack two additional times. Nightcrawler may use his Bamf! special power after each time he attacks.

BAMF! EVADE
If Nightcrawler is attacked by a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately use his Bamf! special power.




However, I had a couple concerns.

One of them was that I thought his Evade of 14 was kind of high. I know that Balantai wants him to have a glass jaw, but with a defense of 3 and a life of 4, he's a couple bad d-20 rolls from a quick death, especially vs. multiple attackers or squads. So I thought perhaps his d-20 roll could come down to where he'd still have a glass jaw, but have a little better survival rate.

My second concern was that I was kind of hung up on his limited Bamf range and that it was a static number. In the limited time today that I had a chance to peak at the above version, I was trying to think of a way to allow for optional ranged Bamfs. I mean, he can Bamf more than the same distance in the comic and animated shows and not limited to 100 ft or whatever (I know he has some limits but they are much greater than 4 spaces IMO). So after sifting through all the comments and suggestions I believe that I like Necro's Version (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1044002&postcount=125) the best. What I like about it is that it does give Nightcrawler options and variable ranges to attack kind of like GO's TNT version, but without the d-20 rolls that rely on luck. This way Nightcrawler can go whatever distance he wants to within the 9 space limit so he can attack 3 different figures adjacent to him or attack one figure 3 times that is 9 spaces away. Seems pretty thematic and fun.

It would be neat to do the movement in teleporting terms instead of flying terms because as it is now with the flying text, he'd have to waste part of his movement to go over a castle wall with a wide wall-walk/overhang to come back to attack a figure underneath that was just 3 spaces away on the other side of the wall. So that's my only concern with the flying text is that it could eat up portions of Nightcrawler's 9 space limit whereas his power is really a teleport and he should be able to go the most direct route.

Anyway, that's my two-cents after all that reading.

[IAmBatman]

I like these:


BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose an empty space within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

BAMF! SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
When Nightcrawler attacks with his Bamf! Special Attack, he may attack two additional times. Nightcrawler may use his Bamf! special power after each time he attacks.

BAMF! EVADE
If Nightcrawler is attacked by a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately use his Bamf! special power.

And I like a lower roll for Bamf! Evade ...

Maybe an adjustment to Bamf! could help out those who want him to move further?


BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may Bamf! To Bamf! choose an empty space within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. If Nightcrawler does not attack this turn, he may Bamf! an additional 6 spaces.

Does that help at all? 10 spaces if he doesn't attack? If he does attack, he gets to Bamf! extra spaces anyway.

[Hahma]

Yeah, that kind of helps and keeps his teleportation wording that I prefer.

[quozl]

What's "wrong" with Necro's wording?

[IAmBatman]

What's "wrong" with Necro's wording?

A couple of things, for me. The biggest one is that it combines too much into one power - it combines all of his movement options other than his normal movement into a special attack. What if I want to just move and not attack? I have to consult a special attack to figure out my options for moving him even on a turn when I don't want to attack? That's confusing. Can I still Bamf! him when I don't attack? I'm not sure, reading that power.
Also, I don't like using the flying wording for a teleportation power. It just doesn't match how teleportation should feel or read, IMO.

[quozl]

Both good points!

How about we get rid of this:

When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's Bamf! Barrage movement, ignore elevations. Nightcrawler may pass over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and pass over obstacles such as ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

And add this?

Teleport
When moving Nightcrawler, don't worry about what's between him and where he wants to move to. If the hex is empty, he can move there as long as it's not more than his Move. Oh yeah, he doesn't take engagement attacks either. He's teleporting!

[Balantai]

So my mind is swimming. Do we have any kind of a consensus?

[IAmBatman]

So my mind is swimming. Do we have any kind of a consensus?

Consensus? No. You might consider a poll. Or just going with what you like most and seeing if you can push it through with a vote. :-)
You're the one driving this thread, though - we're just voters and suggesters.

[quozl]

So my mind is swimming. Do we have any kind of a consensus?

What do you want to see in Nightcrawler? Do you want to see him move 16 spaces each turn or only on turns where he can attack? Do you want him to move less or more than that? We know you want 3 attacks and Evade but we're unsure of how to handle the moving.

[IAmBatman]

So my mind is swimming. Do we have any kind of a consensus?

What do you want to see in Nightcrawler? Do you want to see him move 16 spaces each turn or only on turns where he can attack? Do you want him to move less or more than that? We know you want 3 attacks and Evade but we're unsure of how to handle the moving.

I would think that the front post currently suggests what Balantai wants to see. :-) And I like it - I think it just needs a little cleaning up for the wording.

[quozl]

I would think that the front post currently suggests what Balantai wants to see. :-) And I like it - I think it just needs a little cleaning up for the wording.

Didn't it originally have BAMF moving only 3 spaces?

And the wording seems to be a big thing.

[Hahma]

I can dig the first post, but wouldn't mind seeing Bat's addition to Bamf where he can Bamf 10 spaces if he doesn't attack. It would allow him to move further because he can Bamf a decent amount in the comic/cartoons and it thematically doesn't let him attack afterward because going that distance is a little more taxing on him.

[IAmBatman]

I think the wording was fixed up by Griff's now oft quoted post (that I made the tweak to that Hahma likes).

[Griffin]

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose any empty space that is within 4 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

BAMF! SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
When Nightcrawler attacks with his Bamf! Special Attack, he may attack two additional times. After each attack, Nightcrawler may use his Bamf! special power.
I like this the best personally.

[SirGalahad]

I can dig the first post, but wouldn't mind seeing Bat's addition to Bamf where he can Bamf 10 spaces if he doesn't attack. It would allow him to move further because he can Bamf a decent amount in the comic/cartoons and it thematically doesn't let him attack afterward because going that distance is a little more taxing on him.

Don't feel bad for us. We're only trying to get through 25-30 pages of posts on multiple figures :roll:

For one thing, I think the reason Nightcrawler is getting the most love here is because everybody just really loves the sound of BAMF!

The problem with moving 10 if he doesn't attack is that he is getting to move 12 or 16 if he does (move, [attack, move], [attack, move], [attack, move]).

In firm agreement that BAMF! should not be linked to flying, as we already have a glyph and one or more figures now and down the road which will prevent flying. Nightcrawler's power is definitely a teleportation power.

Thematic question because I don't know -- Is it the distance of his
BAMF!s that take it out of him, or the number of them in succession? Because if it is the latter, perhaps a reduction in the attack dice after consecutive BAMF!s would be in order.

[Hahma]

The problem with moving 10 if he doesn't attack is that he is getting to move 12 or 16 if he does (move, [attack, move], [attack, move], [attack, move]).

Thematic question because I don't know -- Is it the distance of his
BAMF!s that take it out of him, or the number of them in succession? Because if it is the latter, perhaps a reduction in the attack dice after consecutive BAMF!s would be in order.

The thing about him getting to move 12 or 16 spaces when attacking/bamfing, is that he has to have opponent's in range for each attack or in a nice convenient spacing for him to move from one space to end up 12 or 16 spaces away after all those attacks and bamfing. The thing I like about him getting a move of 10 without attacking is that there is no requirement or restrictions on it, so he doesn't have to be able to attack x amount of times to get to 12 spaces away. Also, if the opponent has Blob, X-17 or Gladiatrons, Nightcrawler isn't bamfing away until he or someone else kills the unit he's Stuck or Cyberclawed to. The thing that I really think would be cool for his bamf including a move of 10 is that it would allow for him to be a great glyph grabber (either permanent, temporary or equipment) and this could help his team in a non-combat way, as well as make the opponent alter their plans to counter the chance that Nightcrawler might Bamf to get a glyph. Just a thought is all and if others don't dig it, then we don't add it. :D

[whitestuff]

Don't you people have lives? :shock:

How committed are you to the names? Because all the Bamfs are really confusing to me.I'll see your 'confusing' and raise you an 'annoying'.

I don't think that's necessarily true - people could easily still use him with the other figure, we'd just be putting the expensive figure on the card.The best mini for the job should be on the card. That mid-multiple Bamfs figure makes for an ugly hit-zone pic.

I would like to see something in there that allows him to move further than 5 when he is not attacking on a turn.

I'm OK with the use of a Special Ability.

Finally, what's with the hate for the TNT Nightcrawler? That figure is a tonne of fun to play.

[Hahma]

I can dig the first post, but wouldn't mind seeing Bat's addition to Bamf where he can Bamf 10 spaces if he doesn't attack. It would allow him to move further because he can Bamf a decent amount in the comic/cartoons and it thematically doesn't let him attack afterward because going that distance is a little more taxing on him.

Don't feel bad for us. We're only trying to get through 25-30 pages of posts on multiple figures :roll:

For one thing, I think the reason Nightcrawler is getting the most love here is because everybody just really loves the sound of BAMF!

The problem with moving 10 if he doesn't attack is that he is getting to move 12 or 16 if he does (move, [attack, move], [attack, move], [attack, move]).

In firm agreement that BAMF! should not be linked to flying, as we already have a glyph and one or more figures now and down the road which will prevent flying. Nightcrawler's power is definitely a teleportation power.

Thematic question because I don't know -- Is it the distance of his
BAMF!s that take it out of him, or the number of them in succession? Because if it is the latter, perhaps a reduction in the attack dice after consecutive BAMF!s would be in order.


I forgot earlier that perhaps he should have attack reduced but not in each turn but as the round progresses. 3x 4 first turn, 3 x 2 for second turn and 3x2 for third turn. This way would make him get more tired if he had 3 om's on him. I guess a concern with him as he is, is that conceivably he could get 9 special attacks of 4 in a round vs. Superman and that could be scary. I agree with the special attack, but perhaps let it get weaker after each om he uses for it. Just some random thoughts. Ignore if it's not a good idea.

[Velenne]

Another swing at it:

BAMF!
Instead of moving normally, choose an empty space with 5 clear sight spaces of Nightcrawler. Place him in the chosen space.

SURPRISE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range: 1 Attack: 3
Anytime Nightcrawler uses his BAMF! Special Ability he may immediately attack with Surprise Special Attack. After attacking with Surprise Special Attack, if the defending figure receives at least 1 wound, you may immediately use the BAMF! Special Ability one additional time.

TELEPORT EVADE / SMELL OF SULFUR / SULFUROUS HAZE / CLOUD OF SMOKE ?
If Nightcrawler is attacked by a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately use his BAMF! Special Ability.

[SirGalahad]

The problem with moving 10 if he doesn't attack is that he is getting to move 12 or 16 if he does (move, [attack, move], [attack, move], [attack, move]).

Thematic question because I don't know -- Is it the distance of his
BAMF!s that take it out of him, or the number of them in succession? Because if it is the latter, perhaps a reduction in the attack dice after consecutive BAMF!s would be in order.

The thing about him getting to move 12 or 16 spaces when attacking/bamfing, is that he has to have opponent's in range for each attack or in a nice convenient spacing for him to move from one space to end up 12 or 16 spaces away after all those attacks and bamfing. The thing I like about him getting a move of 10 without attacking is that there is no requirement or restrictions on it, so he doesn't have to be able to attack x amount of times to get to 12 spaces away. Also, if the opponent has Blob, X-17 or Gladiatrons, Nightcrawler isn't bamfing away until he or someone else kills the unit he's Stuck or Cyberclawed to. The thing that I really think would be cool for his bamf including a move of 10 is that it would allow for him to be a great glyph grabber (either permanent, temporary or equipment) and this could help his team in a non-combat way, as well as make the opponent alter their plans to counter the chance that Nightcrawler might Bamf to get a glyph. Just a thought is all and if others don't dig it, then we don't add it. :D

Our current teleporter, Tul-Bak-Ra, can't teleport onto glyphs. Is this something that Nightcrawler would be allowed to do?

And just to clarify:

N V V V V H V V V V V H V V V

where N is Nightcrawler's initial position, V is for vacant hexes, V is where he could end up during BAMF!ing, and H are opponent's heroes.

As long as he didn't destroy the left H on his first attack, he could end up at the rightmost V at the end of his turn, correct?

(For those visual folks out there.)

[SirGalahad]

If the 1st BAMF! SA rolled 4 attack dice, the 2nd BAMF! SA rolled 3 attack dice, and the 3rd BAMF! SA rolled 2 attack dice, would that alleviate some trepidation over his potentially lengthy move?

[IAmBatman]

Don't you people have lives? :shock:

How committed are you to the names? Because all the Bamfs are really confusing to me.I'll see your 'confusing' and raise you an 'annoying'.

I don't think that's necessarily true - people could easily still use him with the other figure, we'd just be putting the expensive figure on the card.The best mini for the job should be on the card. That mid-multiple Bamfs figure makes for an ugly hit-zone pic.

I would like to see something in there that allows him to move further than 5 when he is not attacking on a turn.

I'm OK with the use of a Special Ability.

Finally, what's with the hate for the TNT Nightcrawler? That figure is a tonne of fun to play.

Nice post. I agree that the power names are a tad Bamf! heavy. Perhaps just call the first one Bamf! and then other names for other things, like Teleport Away for the Evasion power. I agree with using the nicest figure for the card.
I've been thinking on this - maybe just don't let him use the special attack when he Bamfs! for 10 spaces (6 extra)? That way he gets some utility out of his normal attack still.
TNT Nightcrawler is definitely cool - but I think we're trying for something different here.

[Balantai]

I actually made a couple changes to the first post this morning. Very similar to what you suggested.

[quozl]

I actually made a couple changes to the first post this morning. Very similar to what you suggested.

I like the current version. :thumbsup:

[IAmBatman]

I like it! I do think (like Hahma) that the three attacks of 4 at his cost level is a bit dangerous ... sure you're not willing to lower it to 3? Other than that, I'd vote this to playtesting right now.

[Rich10]

If the 1st BAMF! SA rolled 4 attack dice, the 2nd BAMF! SA rolled 3 attack dice, and the 3rd BAMF! SA rolled 2 attack dice, would that alleviate some trepidation over his potentially lengthy move?
I would do this or just reduce his attack to 3. He shouldn't be a particularly hard hitter.

[IAmBatman]

If the 1st BAMF! SA rolled 4 attack dice, the 2nd BAMF! SA rolled 3 attack dice, and the 3rd BAMF! SA rolled 2 attack dice, would that alleviate some trepidation over his potentially lengthy move?
I would do this or just reduce his attack to 3. He shouldn't be a particularly hard hitter.

I'm with the reduction to 3 and I agree he shouldn't be a particularly hard hitter. He should be a pain to squads and competitive with other mid level heroes, but he shouldn't be giving Hulk and Superman all kinds of fits.

[Balantai]

I reduced his Special Attack down to 3.

[IAmBatman]

Looking good. :-)
I think we'll need to settle on a figure choice and the special attack text should match its title.
Otherwise, I'm personally ready to start playtesting this guy. I think the mechanics are really sharp where they're at.

[Griffin]

Looking good. :-)
I think we'll need to settle on a figure choice and the special attack text should match its title.
Otherwise, I'm personally ready to start playtesting this guy. I think the mechanics are really sharp where they're at.
Yep, but those are minor details.


I propose that this unit be moved to the Playtesting phase.

YES.

[Hahma]

yea

[IAmBatman]

yea

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I like the powers as currently written with one exception; I think Evade should be dropped to 11. I would also like the name Surprise Special Attack for his SA so the BAMF!'s are all less confusing. I think Acrobat's Evasion would be a great thematic name for the last power. Thoughts?

[NecroBlade]

Just so I'm clear on this...why is the power in the first post that references movement in the special attack OK, but the version I suggested was not for that same reason?

[IAmBatman]

I think power names could still use adjusting.
I'd like to test his evasion power at 13 and then consider going lower if he's not effective enough. I don't know that I necessarily want to make him as elusive as Spidey from the get go.

[IAmBatman]

Just so I'm clear on this...why is the power in the first post that references movement in the special attack OK, but the version I suggested was not for that same reason?

There's referencing another power on the card, and there's explaining all the movement power as part of the special attack.
Maybe I just didn't understand your write up?
Either way, I like this.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think power names could still use adjusting.
I'd like to test his evasion power at 13 and then consider going lower if he's not effective enough. I don't know that I necessarily want to make him as elusive as Spidey from the get go.

Well, as long as moving past this doesn't mean names are set in stone then I will drop that. However, I think with his really low defense, and the fact that he can teleport at the speed of thought. Whereas, Spidey needs to move (granted with enhanced agility, but literally move), Nightcrawler just thinks disappear and it happens.

[IAmBatman]

Good point - but Spidey senses attacks coming before they come, whereas Nightcrawler can only dodge what he sees coming first. To me, Spidey gets the edge there.
I wouldn't mind having names more set in stone before we move on. I've already voted, though. :-)

[NecroBlade]

I meant my original suggestion, not the Kumiko version.

BUT I have figured out how to use the Kumiko version:

BAMF!
When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's movement, ignore elevations. Nightcrawler may Bamf! over water without stopping, Bamf! over figures without becoming engaged, and Bamf! over obstacles such as ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

(Yes, I know you don't like flying Bamf!, Bats, but as I said before it's really no different than point-to-point teleportation except you hit every point along the way. Stick with me here...)

BAMF! BARRAGE SPECIAL ATTACK Range 1. Attack 3.
Nightcrawler can attack up to 3 times with Bamf! Barrage Special Attack at any point before, during, or after his move as long as Nightcrawler is on a space where he could end his movement.

BAMF! EVADE 11
If Nightcrawler is attacked and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die to Bamf! Evade. If you roll 1-10, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 11 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately move up to 4 spaces. Nightcrawler can Bamf! Evade only if he ends his vanishing move not adjacent to any enemy figures.

[IAmBatman]

It's not bad, other than the wording for Bamf! itself. I just like the thought of him doing a lot of independent Bamf! movements in between attacks a lot better than the idea of him Bamf! flying around and hitting several other units before landing.
Which is why I voted for the current version. :-D

[Griffin]

I like the powers as currently written with one exception; I think Evade should be dropped to 11. I would also like the name Surprise Special Attack for his SA so the BAMF!'s are all less confusing. I think Acrobat's Evasion would be a great thematic name for the last power. Thoughts?
All of those suggestions are either semantics or are usually determined by Playtesting. Are you going to with hold your vote for those things?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I meant my original suggestion, not the Kumiko version.

BUT I have figured out how to use the Kumiko version:

BAMF!
When counting spaces for Nightcrawler's movement, ignore elevations. Nightcrawler may Bamf! over water without stopping, Bamf! over figures without becoming engaged, and Bamf! over obstacles such as ruins. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

(Yes, I know you don't like flying Bamf!, Bats, but as I said before it's really no different than point-to-point teleportation except you hit every point along the way. Stick with me here...)

BAMF! BARRAGE SPECIAL ATTACK Range 1. Attack 3.
Nightcrawler can attack up to 3 times with Bamf! Barrage Special Attack at any point before, during, or after his move as long as Nightcrawler is on a space where he could end his movement.

BAMF! EVADE 11
If Nightcrawler is attacked and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die to Bamf! Evade. If you roll 1-10, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 11 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately move up to 4 spaces. Nightcrawler can Bamf! Evade only if he ends his vanishing move not adjacent to any enemy figures.
Actually, I could get behind this idea for Bamf! only because it really does simplify the whole idea. The only reason we think of this wording as flying is because it is used for flying, but couldn't it also represent the way this movement works. It allows Nightcrawler to move mechanically the way we want with even more increased flexibility than 3,3,3,3. I think we would need to adjust his movement number for this instead of using his normal movement.

[Griffin]

Good luck to anyone looking for my approval of Stealth Flying/Teleporting. :poorpost:

[quozl]

Good luck to anyone looking for my approval of Stealth Flying/Teleporting. :poorpost:

But it lets Nightcrawler... (sings) "BAMF where he wants to! BAMF around the world! BAMF where he wants to! Without anything but the love we feel!"

[Griffin]

Good luck to anyone looking for my approval of Stealth Flying/Teleporting. :poorpost:

But it lets Nightcrawler... (sings) "BAMF where he wants to! BAMF around the world! BAMF where he wants to! Without anything but the love we feel!"There are teleportation mechanics that exist already. Why the heck would we try to use a flying mechanic for teleportation? :poorpost: I don't make a habit of forcing circles into squares.

[Master Tang]

Good luck to anyone looking for my approval of Stealth Flying/Teleporting. :poorpost:

But it lets Nightcrawler... (sings) "BAMF where he wants to! BAMF around the world! BAMF where he wants to! Without anything but the love we feel!"There are teleportation mechanics that exist already. Why the heck would we try to use a flying mechanic for teleportation? :poorpost: I don't make a habit of forcing circles into squares.
I am also confused about this. Why is there argument trying to force Teleportation (an already existing power) to be forced into a Stealth Fly-like wording?

[NecroBlade]

You guys realize that Nightcrawler's Bamf!ing power is as close to Flying right now as it is Teleporting, right? Teleporting is a fixed number of spaces and limited to the same level. Flying is not limited to any number of spaces or levels. Currently Nightcrawler is limited to a number of spaces, but not limited to any number of levels...

[Griffin]

You guys realize that Nightcrawler's Bamf!ing power is as close to Flying right now as it is Teleporting, right? Teleporting is a fixed number of spaces and limited to the same level. Flying is not limited to any number of spaces or levels. Currently Nightcrawler is limited to a number of spaces, but not limited to any number of levels...You can't fly through walls, but with Teleporting you can. You can't fly through overhangs, but with teleporting you can. Flying forces you to move over things and people, Teleporting bypasses all of that. Flying has its own official wording and Teleporting has its own official wording.

[NecroBlade]

You know, I had thought of that when I was trying to figure out how to make the Kumiko power work, but I forgot. :duh:

There has to be a way to make this work without referencing one power in the other...

[Griffin]

Necro, what exactly is wrong with what Balantai has on the front page? Where is the problem, cause I don't see any? :reapershrug:

[NecroBlade]

I'm just confused because I posted an alternative idea it was shot down for referencing the movement power in the special attack text...but that's exactly what the current version does. :confused:

But everyone seems to like it at this point, so I guess it's fine.

[IAmBatman]

Is that a yea? :-P

[NecroBlade]

*Sigh* I guess, though no one can explain to me why one is OK but not the other.

Yea.

[IAmBatman]

I think I just didn't understand your proposal. A lot of the wording confused me.
Also, the text just screamed flying to me. Call it an aesthetic thing if you will. Matt Helm hated Jean Grey's card until Telekinetic Throw was changed to Telekinesis. People are weird like that.

[NecroBlade]

Again, not the one I'm talking about. But at this point everyone seems fine with the current version so forget it.

[IAmBatman]

Guess I'm just confused in general, then. :reapershrug: Sorry about that!

[Griffin]

Nightcrawler passes with the 4th vote.

[IAmBatman]

Oh yea, and Necro's vote means Nightcrawler passes into playtesting!

Edit: Oh yeah, Mr. Ninja, well mine was in bold! :-P

[NecroBlade]

You know, I had thought of that when I was trying to figure out how to make the Kumiko power work, but I forgot. :duh:

I also forgot as someone brought up earlier he does say in X2 that it helps if he can see where he's going because he might end up inside a wall if he can't. So with flying it's like he's just avoiding making that mistake. Anyway, just wanted to point that out as to why flying is legit for me, but I know we're sticking with the current version.

Speaking of which, is it just me or should it be clarified whether the extra 5 spaces is added to the 3 (for an 8-space Bamf!) or a separate move (3-space Bamf! then 5-space Bamf!)?

[IAmBatman]

How about?

If Nightcrawler does not attack this turn, you may add 5 spaces to his Bamf! movement.

[NecroBlade]

Yeah, something like that is what I'm looking for to clarify one way or the other. Although since movement comes first I think it should be more like Tracking:

Nightcrawler may add 5 to his Bamf! movement. If he does, he cannot attack this turn.

[Griffin]

Did someone just try to use an X-Men movie as a reference for designing powers...? Those movies suck so bad, and they don't even come close to representing the X-Men. Even MARVEL views those movies as an alternate universe sorta Hollywood thing.

[NecroBlade]

From Marvel's Nightcrawler page:
Nightcrawler has a limited unconscious extrasensory ability that prevents him from teleporting into any area that he cannot see or has not seen in the past, as doing so runs the risk of injury or death by materializing partially or entirely within a solid object.

So they got that part right at least. ;)

[Balantai]

From Marvel's Nightcrawler page:
Nightcrawler has a limited unconscious extrasensory ability that prevents him from teleporting into any area that he cannot see or has not seen in the past, as doing so runs the risk of injury or death by materializing partially or entirely within a solid object.So they got that part right at least. ;)
Stop being a theme nerd. ;)

[Griffin]

From Marvel's Nightcrawler page:
Nightcrawler has a limited unconscious extrasensory ability that prevents him from teleporting into any area that he cannot see or has not seen in the past, as doing so runs the risk of injury or death by materializing partially or entirely within a solid object.So they got that part right at least. ;)
They say that now because of that stupid movie. But in the past in comics, I have seen him just show up in unexplored areas without line of sight.

[IAmBatman]

From Marvel's Nightcrawler page:
Nightcrawler has a limited unconscious extrasensory ability that prevents him from teleporting into any area that he cannot see or has not seen in the past, as doing so runs the risk of injury or death by materializing partially or entirely within a solid object.So they got that part right at least. ;)
Stop being a theme nerd. ;)

Is that the second time today you totally burned Necro? :-P I think it was.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I have to agree with Necro here. Occasionally, he will use a telepath's "eyes" to bypass this, but a) he does get tired, b) he does have a limit to how far, and c) he does have a block against teleporting where he can't see or isn't familiar with. That being said, I am OK with current wording, I just wonder why we don't at least say he can ignore elevations. This single fact makes Bamf! very different from the Official Teleport, IMO.

[IAmBatman]

You don't have to specify that he ignores elevations, because you're placing him instead of moving him. The very fact that elevations are not mentioned means they are ignored.

[quozl]

Necro, what exactly is wrong with what Balantai has on the front page? Where is the problem, cause I don't see any? :reapershrug:

You don't see the difference?

With Balantai's version, you BAMF up to 3 spaces, attack, BAMF up to 3 spaces, attack, BAMF up to 3 spaces, attack, and BAMF up to 3 spaces.

With Necro's version, you BAMF up to 12 spaces and can make three attacks anywhere in those 12 spaces.

[Griffin]

Necro, what exactly is wrong with what Balantai has on the front page? Where is the problem, cause I don't see any? :reapershrug:

You don't see the difference?

With Balantai's version, you BAMF up to 3 spaces, attack, BAMF up to 3 spaces, attack, BAMF up to 3 spaces, attack, and BAMF up to 3 spaces.

With Necro's version, you BAMF up to 12 spaces and can make three attacks anywhere in those 12 spaces.I didn't say anything about difference, I wanted to know what was wrong with the current version. Apparently Necro didn't have any real problem with the current version, he just didn't like his idea being pushed aside even though it was similar.

[quozl]

I wanted to know what was wrong with the current version.

We're doing Heroscape customs. The word "wrong" doesn't even apply.

[Griffin]

I wanted to know what was wrong with the current version.

We're doing Heroscape customs. The word "wrong" doesn't even apply.
Your comment is "wrong". :p

[quozl]

Your comment is "wrong". :p

No, you're wrong and I'm telling!

[SirGalahad]

Now, now children.

Play nice!

[quozl]

See! Sir Gala"dad" said to play nice!

[Monk]

The stats look pretty good, to me.
My biggest problem is with the heroclix Nightcrawler figure.
I couldn't afford the very expensive nightcrawler, with the sword, so I was
stuck with the little " Bamf " explosion Nightcrawler.
When I got mine I realized all the parts are there for making a normal looking figure ( that looks like he's appearing out of the air).
I carefully cut off all the exploding looking plastic. Then I noticed the
front half of the figure had a little square slot whereas the back, leg half,
had a little square peg. When you glue them together you get a complete
Nightcrawler. You ownly have to glue him onto a stand.
You can see the completed figure on my old.......Merry "Marvel" Christmas....thread....He's in the first row, center.

[IAmBatman]

I'd love a link ... (or you could post the picture here!). That's really, really cool, actually ...!

[Balantai]

Here is Monk's photo:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh111/Monk_2008/merychristmas-1.jpg

[IAmBatman]

Thanks! :-) That Nightcrawler, from what I can make out, looks pretty good.

[mrcrimson]

I ordered the bamf Nightcrawler two days ago, so when he comes in I'm probably going to do this. I really dislike when they try to get all "gimmicky" with the figure. I understand they are trying to be artistic, but it hurts the dude who just wants a normal fight stance for his favorite characters.

[A3n]

The stats look pretty good, to me.
My biggest problem is with the heroclix Nightcrawler figure.
I couldn't afford the very expensive nightcrawler, with the sword, so I was
stuck with the little " Bamf " explosion Nightcrawler.
When I got mine I realized all the parts are there for making a normal looking figure ( that looks like he's appearing out of the air).
I carefully cut off all the exploding looking plastic. Then I noticed the
front half of the figure had a little square slot whereas the back, leg half,
had a little square peg. When you glue them together you get a complete
Nightcrawler. You ownly have to glue him onto a stand.
You can see the completed figure on my old.......Merry "Marvel" Christmas....thread....He's in the first row, center.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh111/Monk_2008/merychristmas-1.jpg

Now that's cool. Great discovery Monk.

Cheers

[Adam Souza]

Great idea Monk !

I had figured it was possible but was reluctant to tear apart a figure without some confirmation.

I was able to make 2 Nightcrawlers from 1 Bamf figure. After removing the torso and legs I wanted, I removed the other set of legs and reattached them to the bamf, but in the slot behind the remaining torso

[quozl]

Great idea Monk !

I had figured it was possible but was reluctant to tear apart a figure without some confirmation.

I was able to make 2 Nightcrawlers from 1 Bamf figure. After removing the torso and legs I wanted, I removed the other set of legs and reattached them to the bamf, but in the slot behind the remaining torso

Oh, cool! Pictures needed!

[Griffin]

Great idea Monk !

I had figured it was possible but was reluctant to tear apart a figure without some confirmation.

I was able to make 2 Nightcrawlers from 1 Bamf figure. After removing the torso and legs I wanted, I removed the other set of legs and reattached them to the bamf, but in the slot behind the remaining torsoWhere did you get the other head from though....? :shock:

[Master Tang]

Great idea Monk !

I had figured it was possible but was reluctant to tear apart a figure without some confirmation.

I was able to make 2 Nightcrawlers from 1 Bamf figure. After removing the torso and legs I wanted, I removed the other set of legs and reattached them to the bamf, but in the slot behind the remaining torsoWhere did you get the other head from though....? :shock:
Bamf model comes with two upper bodies and two lower bodies. He put together one upper piece and lower piece to form a body and with the remaining Bamf cloud he moved the legs and put them behind the torso so his body didn't look like he was starting to teleport straight and popping out right, even thought that would be interesting and it would throw people off guard. lol

[Adam Souza]

Quick pic of the 2 Nightcrawlers you can get from 1 Nightcrawler Bamf figure

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc161/Centinull/HEROSCAPE%20CUSTOMS/Miniatures%20Snapshots/NightCrawlers.jpg

[mrcrimson]

How do you remove the Nightcrawler parts from the bamf without damaging the bamf and the Nightcrawler parts? Your pics look great and I really want to do this when mine comes in.

[Griffin]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Adam Souza again.:?

Thanks for sharing that Adam, that is really cool and good to know. I actually like both figures you have there. :up:

[mrcrimson]

Thanks guys for posting that a normal nightcrawler could be made from a bamf one. Heres mine after some superglue and some touch up paint. I like this pose because it looks like hes about to spring into a backflip.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/mrcrimson/007.jpg

[Griffin]

I think that looks great! :up:

[Hahma]

I think that looks great! :up:

I agree, awesome. Was there any trick to removing him from the bamf part or was it really easy and straight forward? Any trick of the trade would be helpful before I butcher mine. :D

[mrcrimson]

H I didn't want to cut into the bamf so I just grabbed his chest and wiggled that out. It came out really easy (think they went light on the glue on that side). The legs were a different story. I wiggled the heck out of them and at one point one snapped off. Luckily they are on pegs so when I finally wiggled his lower half out I glued the leg back in. The bottom half kind of got messed up due to the glue around his lower abs, but I think they give you more to compensate for how much of him is inside the bamf. I sliced the messed up part off with an exacto knife and glued the two extracted parts together and then mixed some paint that matched his costume color of burgundy and painted the crotch part of his costume.

[Hahma]

Thanks a ton Mrcrimson, I'll have to give that a try. If all else fails, there's always superglue. :D

[IAmBatman]

I hope to get some playtesting in on him today while I wait on Wonder Woman's lasso to get resolved.

[IAmBatman]

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Nightcrawler
(please only use red print for all of your responses)

C3G CHECK LIST FEEDBACK FORM
For this section, no play testing is required, only comment below if necessary. This is a guideline for things that you should be looking for as you play-test.
- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them. PASS
- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game. PASS
- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding. PASS
- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak. PASS
- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what are the stipulations on the power if there are any. PASS

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM
(Be sure to list what units you used and what BoV map you used per section below.)
All tests done on Invasion
- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass?
List your Heavy Hitter Test observations.
Nightcrawler vs. Sentinel (x1) (160)
A timely three skull attack by Nightcrawler accompanied by a whiff from the Sentinel made this one close, but the Sentinel still survived to beat Nightcrawler.
After this test, I'm fairly confident that Nightcrawler is worth less than 160. But I'm not sure he's not worth more than 140. Right now I'm feeling anywhere from 140-155 for him.

List your Heavy Hitter Test observations.
Nightcrawler vs. Blob (165)
Another one where Nightcrawler got it handed to him. This time around Blob proved himself to be a perfect counter, winning on turn one of round two without any wounds on him.
Blob is the perfect counter to Nightcrawler, so I don't mind these results at all.

List your Heavy Hitter Test observations.
Nightcrawler vs. Green Arrow (150)
Round One: Nightcrawler makes an opening Bamf! to a jungle bush in the middle of the map. Green Arrow walks to the road and fires at him, rolling an 18 for his skill shot, but then breaks the arrow (0 skulls!). Nightcrawler actually uses his normal move, then, with the road bonus, to engage Green Arrow from height and starts up his special attack. After all three attacks are successfully defended by Green Arrow, Nightcrawler Bamfs! up to height. Green Arrow backs up a few spaces away and lets loose another arrow, but an 8 for Skill Shot and a 1 skull attack don't do anything to Nightcrawler, even when he fails to evade. Nightcrawler rolls miserably (2 skulls on 6 dice), puts no wounds on GA, then Bamfs! to height again. The offensive futility continues through the end of the round.
Round Two: Green Arrow finally whiffs, from height, on Nightcrawler's attack. Then he takes a second wound. Nightcrawler opts to stay engaged, even with height disadvantage, to stop rolls of Skill Shot. Then Green Arrow catches Nightcrawler on a failed Teleport Evade, and the Mutant takes 3 wounds. Then Nightcrawler finishes off Green Arrow with an attack.
140 doesn't feel horribly wrong, but a matchup like this could justify a 10 point bump in Nightcrawler's cost. He has pretty good survivability and he's definitely good at getting in lots of attacks even when he doesn't last that long. He's not someone who's going to stay outranged long.

List your Heavy Hitter Test observations.
Nightcrawler vs. Catwoman (145)
Round One: Catwoman draws first blood on turn two with her Whip. She attacks Nightcrawler, he fails to Teleport Evade, he takes two wounds. Then she whips him again, he fails to evade again, but he blocks the attack. Nightcrawler Bamfs! adjacent to her, on height, and uses his special attack to attack three times in a row. Catwoman never gets her Stray roll (but even if she had, he would have Bamfed to follow her) and takes two wounds.
Catwoman takes a third wound on a swipe but moves on to even height two spaces away from Nightcrawler and starts up her whip again. He teleport evades away, though, and she can whip no more.
He fires up his special attack again, but Catwoman strays from the first, the second (he followed her with a Bamf!) misses, and the third she blocks.
Round Two: Nightcrawler goes first, and attacks, with Catwoman straying once, then Nightcrawler whiffing, then finally he puts a fourth wound on her.
Catwoman climbs to height, deciding to use her normal attack considering Nightcrawler only has two life remaining. He evades, though.
He then uses her special, she can't stray at all, and he puts another two wounds on her.
Now both of them have two life left. Catwoman attacks again from height - Nightcrawler's powers do a good job of preventing her from maximizing either her Stray or her Whip, so it's a good match up for him. He evades again, then he attacks her and she manages to use Stray more productively this time, maximizing its spaces to prevent him from Bamfing to close the gap. Catwoman gets in the last attack of the round, and it's with her Whip. He evades, though, and ends his Bamf! adjacent to Catwoman, preventing her from attacking again.
Round Three: Catwoman, with only two life left, doesn't want to take another swipe, so she opts for a normal attack. Nightcrawler fails to evade, but blocks it with his defense. Then he ends it by putting two wounds on her in two attacks.
Nightcrawler was really able to maximize his offensive output in this one and Catwoman wasn't. I think this is mostly a good matchup for Nightcrawler, but he's definitely right in Catwoman's territory when it comes to points.

List your Heavy Hitter Test observations.
Nightcrawler vs. Fen Hydra (120)
I thought about Pyro in this matchup, but Pyro's powers are largely tied into his ability to mess up crowds, so I thought this would be a good chance to try out a D1 figure.
What I discovered was the glass jaw that keeps Nightcrawler's cost down. Nightcrawler failed all three Teleport Evade rolls against the Hydra and never got off an attack. He died on the Hydra's third attack, on Order Marker 2 of Round One. Ouch.
Nightcrawler still has more good matchups than bad matchups. He has good potential but a glass jaw potentially. 140-150 feels good for him thus far, with me leaning closer to the 150.

- Squad/ Does it pass?
List your Squad Test observations.
Nightcrawler vs. 4th Mass x2
Nightcrawler killed four 4th Mass before dying. Had he had just a little more luck with the dice, I feel he easily could have killed 2 to 4 more of them.
He's a nice one to bring against squads, but not at all overpowered. I'm feeling 130-140 right now.

- Army Test One
List your Army Test observations.
Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler, and Angel vs Superman and Batman
Nightcrawler plays clean up in this one after Cyclops, Jean, and Angel fell to Batman (Cyclops and Jean both put some wounds on Superman first though, and Batman had one wound as well). Nightcrawler put 3 wounds on Superman and 3 on Batman for a total of 321 points killed. This was thanks in large part to Nightcrawler rolling hot for his Teleport Evade power.
I'd say at this point he's starting to deserve that 140 points (or more?) again.

- Army Test Two
List your Army Test observations.
Professor X, Nightcrawler, Angel, and Iceman vs. Captain America, Iron Man, and Catwoman.
Catwoman turned this one around for her crew in a major way, finishing off a 2 life Nightcrawler, a 2 life Professor X, and a full life Angel to survive for the win with 2 life left herself.
Iron Man and Captain America charged in early and took down Iceman, leaving Nightcrawler as the best back up offensive option. Nightcrawler shined a bit here with his special attack, putting four wounds on Cap (200 points), three wounds on Iron Man (180 points), and one wound on Catwoman (16 points) for a total of 396 points killed.
However, despite what appears to be dominance, a large part of Nightcrawler's success had to do with Professor X and Angel protecting him and enabling him to perform at his fullest, and Iceman absorbing much of the early damage from Iron Man and Cap.
This one played completely balanced and Nightcrawler was priced at 145 for it.
I would pass Nightcrawler at anywhere from 140-150 points.

[NecroBlade]

I think you're right Bats, that seems like a bit of a fail on the theme test between Nightcrawler and Blob.

[Adam Souza]

Another card for ease in playtesting

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc161/Centinull/HEROSCAPE%20CUSTOMS/Miniatures%20Snapshots/NIGHTCRAWLER.jpg

[Master Tang]

Then Nightcrawler finishes off Green Lantern with an attack.

From this I think that Nightcrawler should at least cost 300pts, maybe more. lol :neener:

[Griffin]

Then Nightcrawler finishes off Green Lantern Arrow with an attack.

From this I think that Nightcrawler should at least cost 300pts, maybe more. lol :neener:Nightcrawler wishes. :p

[IAmBatman]

I think you're right Bats, that seems like a bit of a fail on the theme test between Nightcrawler and Blob.

Hopefully there are some easy fixes, though. Some ideas in bold below:

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose an empty space within 3 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. If Nightcrawler does not attack this turn, you may add 5 spaces to his Bamf! movement.

FLURRY SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
When Nightcrawler attacks with his Bamf! Special Attack, he may attack two additional times. Nightcrawler must use his Bamf! special power to move at least one space after each time he attacks before he may attack again.

TELEPORT EVADE
If Nightcrawler is attacked by a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, Nightcrawler takes no damage and may immediately use his Bamf! special power. Nightcrawler can Teleport Evade only if he uses his Bamf! special power to move at least one space.




Then Nightcrawler finishes off Green Lantern with an attack.

From this I think that Nightcrawler should at least cost 300pts, maybe more. lol :neener:

Fixed.

[Balantai]

Thematically, why can't Nightcrawler Bamf! when he's stuck to Blob?

EDIT: Also, the way I read it, Nightcrawler actually doesn't "move" when he Bamf!'s. He's placed on a space. Since Nightcrawler doesn't move when he Bamf!'s, I think you should have been able to Bamf! all over Blob without fear of becoming stuck. I think this is wonderfully thematic.

[Adam Souza]

Thematically, why can't Nightcrawler Bamf! when he's stuck to Blob?

Because he's too busy trying to breathe with the big man leaning on him ?

I think it just stems from the inability to include every situation in a brief ppower description


EDIT: Also, the way I read it, Nightcrawler actually doesn't "move" when he Bamf!'s. He's placed on a space. Since Nightcrawler doesn't move when he Bamf!'s, I think you should have been able to Bamf! all over Blob without fear of becoming stuck. I think this is wonderfully thematic.

I'm good with this train of logic as well.

[Hahma]

Thematically, why can't Nightcrawler Bamf! when he's stuck to Blob?

EDIT: Also, the way I read it, Nightcrawler actually doesn't "move" when he Bamf!'s. He's placed on a space. Since Nightcrawler doesn't move when he Bamf!'s, I think you should have been able to Bamf! all over Blob without fear of becoming stuck. I think this is wonderfully thematic.


But a figure like Tul Bak Ra can't teleport away from Blob and a figure can't be Summoned by Saylind away from Blob either. Both of those "movements" are placements if you will as well as Bamf is. Blob's Stuck says a figure cannot be moved by any power on an army card. This would be similar to Major X17 or the Gladiatrons where figures get Cyberclawed and can't move away by any means.

[Balantai]

But a figure like Tul Bak Ra can't teleport away from Blob and a figure can't be Summoned by Saylind away from Blob either. Both of those "movements" are placements if you will as well as Bamf is. Blob's Stuck says a figure cannot be moved by any power on an army card. This would be similar to Major X17 or the Gladiatrons where figures get Cyberclawed and can't move away by any means.
I think I'm focusing in on the word "moved" in Blob's power description. I was basing it off of the Heroscape definition of move instead of the mechanic of moving the figure.

[GreyOwl]

I think Hahma's right, Nightcrawler shouldn't be able to teleport away from Blob (even though thematically, he can).

[IAmBatman]

Yes.
And the proposed line additions were more about him feeling more like Nightcrawler (because you actually are moving him all the time) than about his matchup with Blob.

[IAmBatman]

Anyway ... my playtests are on hold until a final decision is made about whether or not to go with any of the changes I suggested.

[Balantai]

Anyway ... my playtests are on hold until a final decision is made about whether or not to go with any of the changes I suggested.
I'm okay with those changes.