The Book of The Sewer Entrance

[A3n]

The Book of The Sewer Entrance Map

A C3G Casual Map

http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/maps/C3G_SewerEntrance.png
Download PDF File Here (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/maps/C3G-MAP_SewerEntrance.pdf)
Required Sets: Rise of the Valkyrie™ Master Set, Marvel the Conflict Begins™ Master Set, Fortress of the Archkyrie™, Road through the Forgotten Forest™

_________________________________________________________________Sewer Entrance Bio - A derelict building lays abandoned on an empty street. Vacated by the rats long ago, it speaks not a sound. In the sounds of whispers that echo below it's floor it has a secret to tell.

Who or what have made the sewers below their home? And what lies beyond that door?
-Rulings and Clarifications-

OPTIONAL SPECIAL RULES
SPLASH OF FOOTSTEPS
Figures may move through water spaces on the sewer level without stopping.
A defending figure adds 1 die to their defense if the attacking figure moved through a water space on the sewer level that turn.LOW CEILING
Figures with the Flying or Leap special powers may not pass over other figures whilst in the sewer level unless they have the Stealth Flying or Stealth Leap special powers._______________________________________________________________ __


-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A_________________________________________________________________


-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
TBA

[Taeblewalker]

I like the idea of this. I'm tempted to add some sewerage below City Streets, now!

This also inspires me to custom make Lizard...

[Hahma]

For my next offering I did give away a slight hint earlier about it's make-up. I have taken the idea we had from City Streets & created a sewer map. Now I tried 2 other different designs before finalising with the look of this one. I obviously built it first & put it in VS. All but the RttFF pieces that is as I don't have them. The general idea is that one team would be holding the ruins whilst the other team is attacking from above & below ground.

So this is what it looks like:
http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/SewerEntrance.jpg

This is the VS file (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/SewerEntrance.hsc).

This is the bio:
A derelict building lays abandoned on an empty street. Vacated by the rats long ago, it speaks not a sound. In the sounds of whispers that echo below it's floor it has a secret to tell.

Who or what have made the sewers below their home? And what lies beyond that door?And this is an optional rule I have been thinking about:
Splash of footsteps
Figures may move through water spaces on the sewer level without stopping.
A defending figure adds 1 die to their defense if the attacking figure moved through a water space on the sewer level.And another optional rule:
Low Ceiling
Figures with the Flying special power may not pass over other figures whilst in the sewer level unless they have the Stealth Flying special power.Cheers


Great looking map A3n. Once again, you've come up with a neat idea. :thumbsup: I think the only thing I might suggest for the map itself is to maybe add to the sewer section, a few shadow tiles in there from the DnD set, this map is screaming from them. I don't know if you have the DnD set (I don't yet) but you could put them on there like you did the trees and proxy them if you like. But an underground setting is an ideal spot for shadow tiles IMO.


I love the optional rules, again great ideas. Though for Splash of Footsteps, would you consider this change?

Splash of footsteps
Figures may move through water spaces on the sewer level without stopping.
A defending figure adds 1 die to their defense on any turn that the attacking figure moved through a water space on the sewer level.

This way it's more like the defending figure isn't caught by surprise and gets the defense bonus for that turn instead of for the rest of the round or game.

Also for Low Ceiling, perhaps you can add Leapers to those that can't go over a figure's head unless they have Stealth Leap.

Just my :2cents:


By the way, I dig your use of Whilst 8) It's a word I don't hear that often and I like it. :D

[Balantai]

This scenario is screaming for Fanstasic Four vs Mole Man.
Or Batman vs Killer Croc
Or TMNT vs Foot Soldiers

I'm loving this map. Great work, A3n.

[Taeblewalker]

This scenario is screaming for Fanstasic Four vs Mole Man.
Or Batman vs Killer Croc
Or TMNT vs Foot Soldiers

I'm loving this map. Great work, A3n.

Or Spider-man vs. Lizard!

[badgermaniac]

There is another sewer map around the site somewhere that is similar to this one which would serve as a good reference point.

After building and playing with that one, here are some general observations. Your map may or may not apply (no time to look at it).

1. You need multiple access points to the surface. Without numerous ways to get up (or perhaps a thematic reason to stay down), it is too easy for the surface team to sit at the top and set up a turkey shoot as figures try to get through.

2. It can't be too big (wide). You have to be able to physically move yur guys around under the top level. I believe the other one makes it very hard to get to guys in the center of the map...it is very impressive to look at, but just too big to be really playable.

EDIT: One other thing I really like about the other sewer map (IIRC) is that it has a fountain/water on the top level, that is connected to the bottom level and there are a few cool things you can do with that. Just something to think about if you add/modify.

[Balantai]

It might be easier to create two seperate maps and move between the two with access points.

EDIT: Also, it might be cool to swap the water with swamp water in the sewer.

[Cavalier]

There is another sewer map around the site somewhere that is similar to this one which would serve as a good reference point.

After building and playing with that one, here are some general observations. Your map may or may not apply (no time to look at it).

1. You need multiple access points to the surface. Without numerous ways to get up (or perhaps a thematic reason to stay down), it is too easy for the surface team to sit at the top and set up a turkey shoot as figures try to get through.

2. It can't be too big (wide). You have to be able to physically move yur guys around under the top level. I believe the other one makes it very hard to get to guys in the center of the map...it is very impressive to look at, but just too big to be really playable.

EDIT: One other thing I really like about the other sewer map (IIRC) is that it has a fountain/water on the top level, that is connected to the bottom level and there are a few cool things you can do with that. Just something to think about if you add/modify.
This one has several open manholes that I thoought were very cool.

[Griffin]

This map looks great!

I like the clean water (not every sewer has to be completely filthy), and I don't think that the shadow tiles are necessary (natural physical shadows are to be expected with that low of an over hang.

Hahma's suggestion to the wording for the special rule is one I thought of myself as well, you kinda need that for clarity more than anything else.

This map, like the Wayne Maynor I worked on for World's Finest, needs to be built and played on to ensure that it is stable.

Also, Badger is right about the need for more access tunnels from the lower level to the upper level.

[A3n]

I do have the DnD set & I thought about the use of the shadow tiles but then decided the map didn't need it visually & I wanted to include my optional special rule for Splash of Footsteps so thought it would have been too much.

I also thought about swapping the sewer level water tiles with swamp ones but didn't want to add another set requirement just for them, so I reasoned as Griff did that not all sewers are filthy.

As for access I think somebody needs to have a game on it to decide if 4 access points is enough. My thought is that the attacking team should start underground (the bottom right corner). Like they are searching for the where abouts of the Lair.

As for how wide the map is I think it is just right in this one, that was the main reason I scrapped my first 2 versions of the map.

As far as accessing the figures on the bottom level, that played heavy on my mind when I built this. Which is why it is a simple straight cross-section & furthest somebody needs to reach in is 5 tiles which only occurs at the largest section of the sewer (middle of map towards the door). Hopefully I will get a game in myself today if my boy feels up to it.

I changed the special rule for Splash of Footsteps. What you said Hahma was definitely the intent but I have worded slightly different.

Adding Leapers to the Low Ceiling special is a good idea I will fix now.

Cheers

[Scapemage]

Wait, you don't own ANY RttFF sets?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Anyways, the map looks great. I think adding somw Swamp Water would relly make it look like a sewer though.

[mrcrimson]

I'm such a nerd when it comes to multi-level maps like this. Unfortunately you cant high five a computer screen. :thumbsup:

[Griffin]

There is one critical error (so says the program) there is a ladder on a water space. You cannot stack anything on water spaces, even ladders. It upsets the height of things like a ladder rung in relation to an elevation in terrain. It is important to know those things when fighting on ladders. If you just get rid of that water tile and let the ladder sit on the rock, I would be fine with everything about this map.

[Griffin]

Oh, and A3n, I think that your current 4 accesses are just fine, earlier, I only saw one. What you have is great. I think it just needs to be built and I would vote yes on it still pending the removal of the single water tile as well.

[A3n]

will remove the water later tonight.

Cheers

[A3n]

VS file updated in first post.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Each ladder is short from the surface, meaning it needs additional ladder rungs. Unfortunately, you are out of ladders from the single Castle set that you are using. However, you do have some additional single hexes. Raise each ladder to the surface by placing extra hexes under them. Then I think this map is ready to be built and passed.

[Taeblewalker]

I fixed the ladder problem. The only ladder that is (way) too short is the one under the ruin - only Venoc Warlord (with his Height of 6 and Move of 7) can start from the topmost ladder space and get to the top. But I think that's the idea... ;)

Sewer Entrance (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2152)

[A3n]

We actually play that if the ladder runs out you climb as per the official climb rules (that is count each side of the tile as 1 movement & if you can't make you have to stop on the last rung til next turn). But to make it friendly to all I have updated the VS file in the first post.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Now, A3n, are you going to build this one? If so, when?

[A3n]

As I said I already have built it, just without the RttFF tiles & my homemade trees. Here are some photos:
http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/photos_007.jpg

http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/photos_008.jpg

http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/photos_009.jpg

Sorry that's as close as I can get without the extra set.

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

I take it there are no stability issues.

[Griffin]

I am ready to propose that this map pass.


YES.

[Taeblewalker]

Yea. On to the next!

[mrcrimson]

I vote yes. I just can't get enough of two layer maps like this.

[A3n]

I take it there are no stability issues.

Once the 3 layers are complete there are no stability issues (I even had an unrequired castle wall left over but didn't find a place it was needed).

I of course vote YEA.

Cheers

[Griffin]

This map only needs one more vote to finalize it.

[Griffin]

:bump:

If I don't get some votes for yea or nay in here soon, I think we (active members) need to talk about moving some of us (inactive members) to the Inactive Members list so we can have a smaller majority to move these maps along. :?

[A3n]

Has anybody got a better name for this BTW? Something less generic, but still generic?

Cheers

[Griffin]

How about The Sleeping City or The Secret City? Kinda like there is a hidden city below that is "sleeping" or a "secret" but waiting to strike.

[Griffin]

Or Ground Zero. :reapershrug:

[Griffin]

Subterranea City.

[Griffin]

Passageway City :up:

[IAmBatman]

I thought Sewer Entrance was a great name. :reapershrug: It makes me think Killer Croc and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles right away - both of which are great thoughts to have. :-D
Can't believe I missed this one for so long! Awesome concept! My first concern would be playability too, but seems like you guys have double checked on that one. I know it was the major issue when working with Wayne Manor as well (and stability).

[Cavalier]

A big YEA to finish it off.

I thought Sewer Entrance was a great name. :reapershrug: It makes me think Killer Croc and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles right away - both of which are great thoughts to have. :-D
I agree with Bats

[Griffin]

This map passes. :woot:

[Griffin]

I need the front page updated with a Books of Template, please A3n. Thanks, and congrats. :D

[A3n]

WOOT! I will get to pdf either tonight or over the weekend. Who'd a thunk that I could get 2 maps through this fast. Now I have to think of what to do for my third map. I know you said we can have multiple versions of a theme Griff, but I think it can wait a while, the Super Heroscape world probably needs other places more than 2 similar ones. Hmmm :ponder:

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Maybe an island home for your Wonder Woman?

[Griffin]

Maybe an island home for your Wonder Woman?A-Maze-On Island 8)

[A3n]

Is it "Great minds think alike." or "Fools never differ."? But thats exactly where my thoughts were heading.

I was thinking about trying to do that building with the columns at the front hoisted up on the many steps (I was thinking 3-4 would be enough for in-game purposes though), & a nice green area below with a path right to it. Maybe a small assembly area at the base of the steps, & a few buildings/ruins off the sides.

Damn, work I want to go home & start now. Cough, cough, I might be coming down with something. Cough.

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

You are really making me want to update City Streets with an optional sewer underneath. Great job getting this one finished!

[Confred]

Yes, Yes!, my idea became an actuality. It looks great. +rep

[Griffin]

Yes, Yes!, my idea became an actuality. It looks great. +rep
So this map was your idea or A3n's? :confused:

[A3n]

Yes, Yes!, my idea became an actuality. It looks great. +rep
So this map was your idea or A3n's? :confused:

Umm, I certainly didn't collaborate with anybody on this (I don't think I was sleep talking about it :p). Maybe he just means he had the same idea & I made it his reality :confused:.

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

He had the dream, you had the vision, now your reality has made his dream and your vision come true. :-D

[A3n]

PDF added to first post.

Cheers

[Griffin]

I really love this map. A3n, I know you built this map, do see any way of connecting it to Wayne Manor? I would love to have this the outskirts of Gotham just before Wayne Manor. Also, at some point we need a swampy sewer that connects to this one for a Killer Croc scenario. 8)

[tcglkn]

Love this map. Cant wait to play it!

[A3n]

Love this map. Cant wait to play it!

Enjoy & please post a battle report when completed, because that's what we love :D.

Cheers

[tcglkn]

Love this map. Cant wait to play it!

Enjoy & please post a battle report when completed, because that's what we love :D.

Cheers

Will do.
What is the recomended point value for this map (nonmarvel battle)

[IAmBatman]

I don't think there is one. You should be able to run just about whatever you want on it. :-) (Within reason).

[tcglkn]

I built this map and it played great. It was a little bit of a complex built but well worth it. I enjoyed the battles we ran very much. We ran about 700 points of classic 'scape (Don't own any marvel) and it almost seemed like too little for the size of the map.

[Iron Knight]

this map seems quite impressive. I must begin construction at once!

[tcglkn]

this map seems quite impressive. I must begin construction at once!

It's fun. If it was competitive, I would keep it build and use it for playtesting.

[quozl]

I built this in preparation for the new scenario and noticed there are two too many castle toppers in the build. (23 instead of 21).

I made a fix here: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3060

[tcglkn]

I just thought I was missing a couple when I built it. I replaced them with some extra tiles I had.

[johnny139]

I noticed that, too, but I built it without any trouble (and only have one Castle), so I assumed there was something off in VirtualScape...

...so I guess I have two spare tiles?

[quozl]

Or you missed two. My fix is just subbing in a rock tile for one and leaving off another when you put on the upper level.

[A3n]

Actually the left most castle walks on levels 5 & 6 aren't supposed to be there. That's the only way you will get 5 ladder rungs down that man-hole.

I will fix soon.

Cheers

[johnny139]

Alright, so I tinkered with the build for this one a bit to remove any extra pieces and add the support that davidlhsl suggested HERE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1421493#post1421493). So, I have the DOWNLOAD (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3262) up for that; it should probably get looked over (and maybe built or something?) by someone.

[davidlhsl]

Alright, so I tinkered with the build for this one a bit to remove any extra pieces and add the support that davidlhsl suggested HERE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1421493#post1421493). So, I have the DOWNLOAD (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3262) up for that; it should probably get looked over (and maybe built or something?) by someone.

Awesome! I still have the map set up, so I'll compare your version with the original build to see if it needs to be completely rebuilt or simply adjusted.

[davidlhsl]

I've rebuilt the map from johnny's revision.

Everything seems stable. You may see it in the second photo, but the 24-hex piece in the front middle wants to droop a little on the right. However, there's no danger of it collapsing, so it's fine.

I find it bizarre that it was the front-right that needed the support while the large overhang on the front left didn't require any extra help. Weird, but that's why it's important to do a physical build. I also confirmed the available materials in Virtual Scape, and there's no overage of available materials.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Map%20building/SE007.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Map%20building/SE008.jpg



I'm not sure which file A3n will use for the revised pdf, but I'll need to rebuild the map from the ground up once it's ready regardless. Again, I'll keep the map set up for you so I'll have the materials ready, and I'll build it once the pdf is ready.

Great work, johnny139!

P.S. - The title changed, and I almost couldn't find this thread! Never mind. I just realized this isn't the scenario thread.

[quozl]

You are so awesome, David!

[johnny139]

Yeah, seriously good work. Prompt and detailed - and with pictures! An asset to the company. :up:

[Taeblewalker]

That looks really, really cool!

[A3n]

OP picture & PDF updated.

Cheers

[davidlhsl]

Meanwhile, 10,000 feet above Bon Aqua.

Capt. Johnson: "And remember, David. You count slowly to 10, then you pull the ripcord. If the chute doesn't deploy, pull your emergency ripcord."

David: "And if the chute still doesn't deploy?"

Capt. Johnson: "Flap your arms really hard and pray."

Bzzzzzzt.

Capt. Johnson: "What was that?"

David: "Hey! A3n has updated the Sewer and scenario PDF! I can take down my map and rebuild it from the..."

Capt. Johnson (shoving David out of the plane): "BOMBS AWAY!!!!"

David: "AAAAAAAAGH!!!! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO COUNT TO AGAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN?"


I'll let you know when I've finished.

P.S.: <splat!>

[davidlhsl]

Sorry, but I've hit a couple of snags I need to check with you.

#1: Level 7 is blank. There was a water tile that capped the center column.

#2: Check the number of single-hex wall walk pieces. There are only 21 pieces in a castle set, and I think you're using 24. johnny139 removed one from Level 5 and two from Level 6, then capped the center column on Level 6 instead of Level 7.

I need to head to bed, because I've got to pop in to work for a bit very early in the morning.

[A3n]

Sorry, but I've hit a couple of snags I need to check with you.

#1: Level 7 is blank. There was a water tile that capped the center column.

#2: Check the number of single-hex wall walk pieces. There are only 21 pieces in a castle set, and I think you're using 24. johnny139 removed one from Level 5 and two from Level 6, then capped the center column on Level 6 instead of Level 7.

I need to head to bed, because I've got to pop in to work for a bit very early in the morning.

1/. :oops:I forgot to take that level out of the pdfs.

2/. there is only 21 total, as I stated before the ones on the left of level 5 & 6 previously were a mistake & I have moved the one from level 6 for the extra column support. This is Johnny's build except I swapped the 2 & 1 hex for the extra column out for a 3 hex.

Cheers

[A3n]

New PDF uploaded without the blank level 7.

Cheers

[johnny139]

I'm also counting 24 Wall Walks, for what it's worth. (Or maybe I'm just completely missing your explanation.)

[A3n]

Ok, now I see what you guys are seeing. I used the same picture of level 4 on levels 5 & 6. Oops, fixed now.

Cheers

[davidlhsl]

Cue the dancing girls...

Map is completely rebuilt from the PDF, and everything looks great!

Twilight Zone moment... When I put the map together, I was missing a 2-hex concrete piece for Level 18. Uh oh! I looked in my Marvel terrain tub, counted the 2-hex concrete pieces in there, and there were 8. Now, 7 comes in a Marvel Master Set. So I took the 2-hex piece, then placed it on Level 18. So that meant that Johnny's map only used 6, right? No, I counted the pieces on his PDF, and he used 7. So I probably forgot to use a piece when I built johnny's right? I went back to the scenario thread to check my picture, and the piece is there. Here's the thing: when I tore down johnny's map, I simply placed the individual pieces grouped by type on and around my card table.

So... How did that 2-hex concrete piece get from my card table back into the tub?

Dooo doooo doooo dooo....

I checked the Scenario PDF, and that build is identical to this. So I don't think another rebuild will be necessary.

Oh, and A3n, I've mentioned this before, but I can't say this enough: I >>>love<<< the way you indicate ladders on your PDF's. Makes map building such a joy!

As always, a pleasure to serve you guys!

[Griffin]

Thanks DavidHTML. :up:

[IAmBatman]

Links updated, but jpeg needs moving.

[A3n]

Fixed :up:.