The Book of Savage Land: A C3G Casual Map

[Taeblewalker]

The Book of Savage Land Map


A C3G Casual Map
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_619143_original.jpg


http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_again_148936_original.jpg

Download PDF File Here (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/maps/C3G-MAP_SavageLand.pdf)

Required Sets: 2 Rise of the Valkyrie™ Master Sets, 1 Swarm of the Marro™ Master Set, Battle for the Underdark™ Master Set, 1 Fortress of the Archkyrie™, 2 Road to the Forgotten Forests™, 3 Ticalla Jungles™, 1 Volcarren Wasteland™, 1 Thaelenk Tundra™

_________________________________________________________________Savag e Land Bio - In the heart of a frozen continent, at the base of a high glacier-fed waterfall, lies a lush land full of danger and natural beauty. Vents around semi-dormant volcanoes spew acrid gases into the air as tar bubbles up through the swamp around the wild jungle growth. What race left the crumbling ruins that stand across the icy waters? Answers await those intrepid enough to dare the savage beasts that lie in wait!
-Rulings and Clarifications-
Shadow tiles may beconsidered to be tar pits. If so, the do not provide the shadow bonus to defense. Also, the figure is trapped. The trapped figure cannot move from this space. The figure can move off the tar pit only if a friendly figure occupies an adjacent space.

_________________________________________________________________









-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A_________________________________________________________________















-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
TBA

[Griffin]

It is certainly pretty, but right now I don't see anything jumping out at me saying "oooh, you gotta play on me".

~ Griffin, who talks to his terrain, and the terrain talks back

[Griffin]

I really like the waterfall. Do you think that could be the focal point of the map?

[Taeblewalker]

I was going for having that be the place where the heroes "land," like a Land of the Lost scenario. Maybe I should go for something more like that, with a cave and such. Even a lost city of the Sleestaks!

The point of the map was to emulate a scene from the X-men cartoon with Professor X and Magneto, complete with the geyser in the scene where they pulled themselves out of the river after falling off of a waterfall. Perhaps I can place the waterfall differently.

[Matt Helm]

I would love the Savage Land to have snow on one mountainous side. It is in Antarctica after all.

[badgermaniac]

The point of the map was to emulate a scene from the X-men cartoon with Professor X and Magneto, complete with the geyser in the scene where they pulled themselves out of the river after falling off of a waterfall. Perhaps I can place the waterfall differently.

If the scene is based on a personal connection, then that is absolutely a reason to play it. While some players want a perfectly balanced map and others need to have strategic choices, realize that there are many fans who JUST want to play a map that looks cool or is a recreation of a famous comic scene.

Considering that we are just talking about pieces of plastic, it really does give the feel of what I know about the Savage Land and it most definitely looks like a map that I would go out of my way to play on.

Well done.

[Taeblewalker]

I would love the Savage Land to have snow on one mountainous side. It is in Antarctica after all.

Look now!

http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//savage%20land_3mb.jpg

[IAmBatman]

I didn't see the first one, but this one looks awesome, so I like what you did! :-)

[Taeblewalker]

The first one is identical, except I added the mountain behind the waterfall. Thanks!

[Rich10]

It looks great. I do have one concern. I have made and played maps like this and ranged figures can camp out on height behind water. It can be very unfriendly to melee figures/squads.

[Griffin]

I would love the Savage Land to have snow on one mountainous side. It is in Antarctica after all.
That was an excellent suggestion. :up:

[IAmBatman]

It looks great. I do have one concern. I have made and played maps like this and ranged figures can camp out on height behind water. It can be very unfriendly to melee figures/squads.

That's why it's a scenario/casual map though, right? When you're playing with it, you probably want to put both startzones on the flat jungle, or give more points to the team starting in the jungle than one starting in the mountains.
I think it's a great map for a "team of good guys tries to stop small group of powerful bad guys" match. The map could favor the bad guys to even the playing field.

[Rich10]

It looks great. I do have one concern. I have made and played maps like this and ranged figures can camp out on height behind water. It can be very unfriendly to melee figures/squads.

That's why it's a scenario/casual map though, right? When you're playing with it, you probably want to put both startzones on the flat jungle, or give more points to the team starting in the jungle than one starting in the mountains.
I think it's a great map for a "team of good guys tries to stop small group of powerful bad guys" match. The map could favor the bad guys to even the playing field.Don't get me wrong, I love making maps with waterfalls, especially if I am playing Microcorps. I'm just throwing out to the group that melee can be very hard to field on such a map.

[IAmBatman]

It looks great. I do have one concern. I have made and played maps like this and ranged figures can camp out on height behind water. It can be very unfriendly to melee figures/squads.

That's why it's a scenario/casual map though, right? When you're playing with it, you probably want to put both startzones on the flat jungle, or give more points to the team starting in the jungle than one starting in the mountains.
I think it's a great map for a "team of good guys tries to stop small group of powerful bad guys" match. The map could favor the bad guys to even the playing field.Don't get me wrong, I love making maps with waterfalls, especially if I am playing Microcorps. I'm just throwing out to the group that melee can be very hard to field on such a map.

I guess on the plus side, slow, non-flying melee isn't a huge part of SuperHeroscape and should expect to have trouble when being played with them. So since this is a SuperHeroscape map project, I'm OK with that. :-) There isn't, for instance, a single melee figure in the Marvel Master Set who would really struggle on this map (since only Abomination and Hulk qualify as melee and that Super Leap would make things just fine for them).

[quozl]

It is certainly pretty, but right now I don't see anything jumping out at me saying "oooh, you gotta play on me".

~ Griffin, who talks to his terrain, and the terrain talks back

I feel the same way although the mountain does add to it.

What if you made the mountain and the waterfall the center of the map and built the jungle around it?

[Xn F M]

If you don't mind me throwing in my two cents. I like the mountain, but I think the map looked better before it was added.

If this were my my map, i would try to shift the low ground to the left a bit more and adjust it's overall shape so that the footprint would be less blocky. All the elements of the map are great, but the shape of the footprint is off-puting.

[Taeblewalker]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_waterfall_original.jpg

What do you think of making this the center of the map?

[Balantai]

I really like this new take, Taeblewalker.

[Rich10]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_waterfall_original.jpg

What do you think of making this the center of the map?It looks cool, but where are the starting zones?

[Balantai]

I think that's just supposed to be the middle. You would expand out from what's posted.

[Griffin]

Looking cool. 8)

[Taeblewalker]

Looking cool. 8)

I try. :) Check out my new version of the Graveyard over in that thread.

[Xn F M]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_waterfall_original.jpg

What do you think of making this the center of the map?

That waterfall is an great bit of terrain to build a map around (heck I'd play on it by itself, ~500 points of super-dudes. . .). There's a ton of potential there.

[A3n]

I like the new orientation, but would like it more if there was more land either side of the lake. Even if that means sacrificing the length of it. Having said that it is really a beautiful map. Very pleasing to the eyes.

Great map.

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

I like the new orientation, but would like it more if there was more land either side of the lake. Even if that means sacrificing the length of it. Having said that it is really a beautiful map. Very pleasing to the eyes.

Great map.

Cheers

I intend to have this be the same "width percentage" as the original; I just need to build the rest back out to the left and right, as opposed to everthing to the right.

[Griffin]

I like the new orientation, but would like it more if there was more land either side of the lake. Even if that means sacrificing the length of it. Having said that it is really a beautiful map. Very pleasing to the eyes.

Great map.

Cheers

I intend to have this be the same "width percentage" as the original; I just need to build the rest back out to the left and right, as opposed to everthing to the right.
I think once you have done that, this one will be our beautiful trophy piece of sorts. :up:

[mrcrimson]

This map makes me even more anxious for the Rise of the Mutants to come. Great use of the different terrain (there's something for everyone here with the ice, swamp, water, lava rocks, ect.) I'm really hoping Wizards starts pumping out ticallas again, I really want to play this thing.

[IAmBatman]

Should be no more than a week or two at this point. :-)

[mrcrimson]

Sweet! :)

[Taeblewalker]

I have been letting the idea stew a bit for this map, and I think I have the direction I want to go. I have somewhat reduced the horizontal size of the mountain with the glaciers, and appropriated some of the sprawling swamp space for other purposes. I am going to have a "dry cave" on one corner of the swamp, while the other side of the river is going to have a chasm with a "lost city" over it. think land of the lost.

I will hopefully have something to post later.

[A3n]

I have been letting the idea stew a bit for this map, and I think I have the direction I want to go. I have somewhat reduced the horizontal size of the mountain with the glaciers, and appropriated some of the sprawling swamp space for other purposes. I am going to have a "dry cave" on one corner of the swamp, while the other side of the river is going to have a chasm with a "lost city" over it. think land of the lost.

I will hopefully have something to post later.
Sounds cool, can't wait.

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

Here is a very rough idea of what I'm going for. There's a cave on the right and a chasm on the left, with a bridge across and the (pitifully slapdash) beginnings of a lost city.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/save_land_3_original.jpg

[Griffin]

Looking good. Keep it up. :up:

[A3n]

I still would prefer if the mountains were part of the map. If you could bring them in so the back is in line with rest of the map it would make more useful - if only as LOS blocker or something painfully in the way :twisted:. (in a good painfully way).

Cheers

[Griffin]

I do agree with A3n. I have been avoiding saying so, but that entire mountain, as pretty as we all think that it is, will serve little more than decoration in a game. It needs to be brought into the map more or those mountains will never block line of sight, and there is not much to encourage figures to work very hard at getting up there to fight one another either.

[Taeblewalker]

I can bring it "on" the map more, and have steep sides toward the rear of the map, with stepwise descent for the waterfall; less so the sides. This will save a ton of terrain, since I will be bringing it into the "rectangle" of the map. I will do what i can with it later. We definitely want it to be more than just pretty to look at. That's what Black Canary is for. :p

[Griffin]

I can bring it "on" the map more, and have steep sides toward the rear of the map, with stepwise descent for the waterfall; less so the sides. This will save a ton of terrain, since I will be bringing it into the "rectangle" of the map. I will do what i can with it later. We definitely want it to be more than just pretty to look at. That's what Black Canary is for. :pI will be looking forward to that. Tell Canary I said "holla". ;)

[Taeblewalker]

I am still active on this map. It's just a pain to get the right inspiration to bring that mountain "into" it, maintain the swamp, and have the right feel overall without making it way too big.

BUT

I have been looking at fan-made maps of the Land of the Lost and really coming up with some ideas...they should gel later tonight into something pleasing to the eye.

I hope.

Meanwhile, my next project will be something that all will fear!

[quozl]

Are you still working on this?

[Taeblewalker]

Never fear. I was preoccupied with a broken hand (don't ever fight the refrigerator and expect to win), but I will be working on it soon. Typing on this site has been painful to the digits as it is, and I lacked the dexterity to manipulate the VS program properly. That, and the end of school is keeping me busy.

But I will do it very soon.

[IAmBatman]

(don't ever fight the refrigerator and expect to win)

Maybe you should have cooled off first? :-P

[Taeblewalker]

(don't ever fight the refrigerator and expect to win)

Maybe you should have cooled off first? :-P

I missed this joke at the time you posted it. Funny!

Here is the latest image, though I have yet to make the rest of the map on the other side of the river. There will be some dry land, with a big rift and a bridge over it. There will be a lost city on the other side.

What do you all think so far? Is it heading in the right direction?

Here is a pic, and I've updated the link on the first post.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_new_original.jpg

[quozl]

Looking good!

[Taeblewalker]

Looking good!

Thanks! In case it wasn't obvious, the shadow tiles are tar, the water in volcano shows that it's not actively erupting near the top, but that lava is oozing out the sides - I'm thinking that tar can take 2 move to enter, like slippery ice, and can also cause an unblockable skull at the end of the round for sinking damage, like lava field. Perhaps the water tile in the crater can be boiling water and cause an unblockable skull when one enters it, but a permanent glyph can go there.

As for the other side of the mountain where the map isn't built yet, it can either be as is or I can move the 4-hex glacier to make a waterfall coming down that side.

I need to head up to Kathy's now, so I won't be able to work on it tonight.

[Griffin]

YES YES YES YES!!!!! This is definitely the right direction. Excellent work. This is a big playground of a map that the battle can find its way moving all over. This is great great work. :thumbsup:

[A3n]

I agree it's looking good.

[Cavalier]

I'm really liking the look of this :cool:

[Taeblewalker]

Here's the latest. I'm wondering if the lost city is laid out well, but it's the idea I'm going for at least.

I also updated the first post with the VS file.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_with_lost_city_original.jpg

[Griffin]

I like the new changes. :up:

[A3n]

It's certainly pretty but what's to make me go to the ruins?

[Taeblewalker]

It's certainly pretty but what's to make me go to the ruins?

It's a work in progress - I think some glyphs can go there, for starters.

[Griffin]

It's certainly pretty but what's to make me go to the ruins?

It's a work in progress - I think some glyphs can go there, for starters.
I think that this being a casual map, we don't need to give "incentives" to certain areas. I think just leaving the entire work of art open to interpretation for the Scenario Writer, the casual gamer, the Campaign Manager, etc, means that "we build it, and they come".

I for one would definitely consider this map for a scenario, and so the burden of starting zones, possible special rules, or glyphs would be on me, and that is important to leave it open for future creativity and interpretation.

I don't think you should put any glyphs down at all, leave that up to the future GM.

[Taeblewalker]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_biggest_original.jpg

Updated first post.

[Griffin]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_biggest_original.jpg

Updated first post.
:bowdown:

This is Sparta!... I mean this is beautiful. :D I love this map man. Good work here.

Question: Why are there voids separating the ruins from the rest of the map? I think I would like to see a road there starting and coming in from the northwest side between the two rocks and winding in front of the ruins with some ruined walls from the RotV MS protecting the old building.

Also, when you make updates like this, please update the picture on the front page as well. Thanks.

[Taeblewalker]

Fair point. I was still married to the idea of Land of the Lost, with the chasm separating Alice from Grumpy. But I'll give it a try.

[Xn F M]

This map just keeps getting better. Great work Taeblewalker. :up:

[Taeblewalker]

First post updated with pic and link.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_biggest_560131_original.jpg

[Griffin]

I think that this has become my new favorite C3G map. I just love organic maps, and this one just constantly evolves so nicely but it doesn't feel forced, not even the lava near the glacier, it just takes me to a realm of fantasy, adventure and wonder. Excellent work here brotha! :thumbsup:

[A3n]

I think that this has become my new favorite C3G map. I just love organic maps, and this one just constantly evolves so nicely but it doesn't feel forced, not even the lava near the glacier, it just takes me to a realm of fantasy, adventure and wonder. Excellent work here brotha! :thumbsup:

:word:

I love the natural look of this map.

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

I'm going to start thinking about this map again, and see where that takes me. It's a project that can't be rushed.

[Griffin]

I'm going to start thinking about this map again, and see where that takes me. It's a project that can't be rushed.
Take your time brother. Let me just tell you, that I have a Heroscape date with my wife thanks to you. She told me she would gladly play some DnD/Valahalla games with me if I built this map. She said she didn't want to play on any other map.... so thanks for helping that little dream come true. :D It really is a beautiful map.

[Taeblewalker]

First Post Updated

[Griffin]

First Post Updated
Wow, just wow. I love how this map looks like an entire continent in a way with all of its various elements.

The choke points on either side of the building area where it connects to the rest of the map may be a tad too extreme.

[IAmBatman]

That map looks good enough to eat! :-) Griff's probably right about the choke points being a bit severe, though.

[quozl]

I love the look of this map but why is there that big negative space?

[Griffin]

I love the look of this map but why is there that big negative space?
Clearly the map has daddy issues, so try to be a bit more sensitive OK. :lol:

[quozl]

I love the look of this map but why is there that big negative space?
Clearly the map has daddy issues, so try to be a bit more sensitive OK. :lol:

That is rich coming from you! I should change my username to Griffin2.

[IAmBatman]

:rimshot:

[Taeblewalker]

I wanted to create the feel of a big rift separating the "lost city" region from the rest. I thought that the bridge away from the mountain would be the "regular" way across, and the other point would be a way for fliers and leapers only to make their way across.

I'll post a few pics of some alternate ideas.

[Griffin]

I wanted to create the feel of a big rift separating the "lost city" region from the rest. I thought that the bridge away from the mountain would be the "regular" way across, and the other point would be a way for fliers and leapers only to make their way across.

I'll post a few pics of some alternate ideas.
I like the void myself, I just think the choke points should be a bit broader.

[Griffin]

I love the look of this map but why is there that big negative space?
Clearly the map has daddy issues, so try to be a bit more sensitive OK. :lol:

That is rich coming from you! I should change my username to Griffin2.
:lol: Don'tcha know it.

[Taeblewalker]

How about now?

[IAmBatman]

Looks like it'd be a lot tougher to chomp through. :-)

[Griffin]

I like it. :)

[A3n]

Looks gorgeous. Well done. Has it been built yet?

[Taeblewalker]

I haven't built it, but I will soon.

[Taeblewalker]

I spruced it up a little.

[davidlhsl]

I've had this map on my radar for a long time, and I'm considering using this in my HelmAverse tournament that I'm currently running in the Marvel Discussions area. I've postponed building this map due to the fact that this will seriously extend beyond the boundaries of my poor card table (I really don't want it in the floor where it would simply be in the way.). However, looking at the VS file, I should have enough 24-hex pieces that I can use as a base layer that I can build on top of.

I'm about to switch maps this weekend, so I am going to try to build this beauty. Question: do you have any recommendations for start zones that you want me to use when I run a C3G test battle on it, if my idea works and I can actually put this together?

Edit 11/05/10: Didn't want to use a new thread, but the base layer and first level of the map are put together so far. With some of my Formula De boards underneath to support the base layer hexes that hang off the left and right sides (3 hexes each), I should be able to build the map. I have white poker chips marking off the boundaries of the actual map proper, and they do look kind of ugly at the moment next to the map. I also wish Virtual Scape contrasted their colors better, as I had to pull out a ton of sand tiles when I realized they were supposed to be swamp water (grrrr). I also have trouble with Marvel terrain vs. rock. I'll work on this tomorrow and should have some pics. :)

[Griffin]

I really want to build this map too, unfortunately, I am far too busy with the Fan 4 set. :(

[quozl]

If it had one less Jungle, I could build it....

[johnny139]

I'd love to build it, too... if it had one less Tundra and three less Jungle sets. :( Absolute beauty though. I'm jealous.

[davidlhsl]

Phew!!! Estimated construction time: 2-1/2 to 3 hours.

As many of you know, I normally object to uncapped pillars. I was planning to cap them on this map, but I feel these uncapped pillars are absolutely integral to the aesthetics of this gorgeous (understatement alert!) map.

If you see any white poker chips in the photos, I've used them to outline the base layer I had to construct in order to fit this map on my card table.

One other comment, which I made in my edit above and you may not have seen: I really wish Virtual Scape had provided better contrast in some of these hexes. Sand looks nearly identical to Swamp Water. Snow and Concrete look similar. Asphalt, Rock, and Ice look similar. I had to redo some areas due to confusion on my part. Due to the wide variety of tiles used on this map, there may be some need to touch up the pdf if any of you others experience similar confusion.

johnny139: This has Indiana Jones written all over it! :)

I will want to provide close-up photos of various sections for your inspection. That will come later. But for now...


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand001.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand002.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand003a.jpg


Edit: Lava crater fixed and new photo taken

[IAmBatman]

That's ginormous!!

[Taeblewalker]

Looks awesome! Thanks for the build. I'm glad you can use it. I will suggest a few start zones:

1) The 7-hex raised swamp tile nearest the three shadow tiles (this is on the map edge in a straight line from the "volcano")

2) Choose several hexes in the area among the ruins near the small RotV ruins pieces and the evergreen tree

3) The level 1, 7-hex rock tile nearest the small waterfall surrounded by jungle trees on the side of the map opposite the glacial mountain.

BTW, not to nitpick, but I had a water tile in the crater of the volcano, though the molten lava tile looks cool, too!

[davidlhsl]

Thanks for the correction. You should have seen it when I began building and used single-hex sand tiles instead of swamp water. I also began using rock tiles instead of ice. grrrrr... I wonder if anyone else has this problem.

Photo showing the lava crater corrected in above post. And now, here are the promised close-ups.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand004.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand005.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand006.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand007.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand008.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand009.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand010.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand011.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand012.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand013.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p288/davidlhsl/Savage%20Land/SavageLand014.jpg

[Matt Helm]

I think I just passed out looking at those pics. That's a heck of a map and an awesome job building.

Kudos to the designer and the man crazy enough to build it and photo it.

Burt's Beer. Even the most tedious tasks will seem more palatable.

[Taeblewalker]

Thanks! I really appreciate the build, D. I'll work on posting my next one, since this one looks ready to be voted on.

[Taeblewalker]

I propose that we pass Savage Land.

[A3n]

Yea

[Griffin]

Yea.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Is this also a Hero vote? If so, I say Yea.

[Griffin]

Nah, this is a map in the map department, not a scenario in the C3G mainframe.

We need a map sanctum I think. :ponder:

[A3n]

Nah, this is a map in the map department, not a scenario in the C3G mainframe.

We need a map sanctum I think. :ponder:
Nah, not yet. We haven't been drowned out enough here... yet ;).

Cheers

[quozl]

Assuming this is a casual map (I can't find it mentioned anywhere), then I vote yea.

[Taeblewalker]

Casual, yes! I meant to include that in the proposal.

[johnny139]

Alright, Yea from me, too.

(I still hesitate to vote for these things because the whole "member of mapmakers" hasn't quite registered with me yet. :lol:)

[Taeblewalker]

Alright, Yea from me, too.

(I still hesitate to vote for these things because the whole "member of mapmakers" hasn't quite registered with me yet. :lol:)

Nonetheless, your vote is appreciated. 8)

[quozl]

This passes by time.

[A3n]

I'll be away for until Tuesday so I will get to the PDF then.

Cheers

[A3n]

Hey TW the OP needs to be set up in the "Book of" format & you need a Bio for me to complete the PDF. If you get the bio up within the hour I should be able to get this out before my wife wakes up & we get going.

Cheers

[A3n]

Hey TW the OP needs to be set up in the "Book of" format & you need a Bio for me to complete the PDF. If you get the bio up within the hour I should be able to get this out before my wife wakes up & we get going.

Cheers
:bump:

[Taeblewalker]

Hey TW the OP needs to be set up in the "Book of" format & you need a Bio for me to complete the PDF. If you get the bio up within the hour I should be able to get this out before my wife wakes up & we get going.

Cheers
:bump:

I did the format and a bio on the OP a while ago. Check it out!

[A3n]

Incomplete PDF (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/released/Maps/C3G_SavageLand.pdf)

This is the suggested rule from the OP:
Shadow tiles may beconsidered to be tar pits. If so, the suggestion is that they cost one extra move to enter, and do not provide the shadow bonus to defense.I would like to suggest the following with a slight change to the workings (wording could probably still be improved):
OPTIONAL SPECIAL RULE

TAR PITS
Shadow tiles are considered to be tar pits. Tar pit spaces do not provide the shadow bonus to defense. When moving off a tar pit space count one extra move. Figures with the flying power may fly over Tar pit spaces counting the space as only 1 move, however if they land on a tar pit space they must also count one extra space when moving off the tar pit space.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Why does this map have to have a special rule? Why can't we just leave it as is?

[A3n]

Why does this map have to have a special rule? Why can't we just leave it as is?
:shrug: It's what's in the OP.

[Griffin]

Well I like the map, but the Tar Pit rule is something that I feel is best kept for a C3G optional rule, not so much here on a casual map that most people will not even be able to build due to its huge size and terrain requirements.

[A3n]

I don't know it is kind of specific to the map not a scenario & using the shadow tiles as shadow spaces doesn't seem appropriate for the map.

Cheers

[quozl]

Well I like the map, but the Tar Pit rule is something that I feel is best kept for a C3G optional rule, not so much here on a casual map that most people will not even be able to build due to its huge size and terrain requirements.

I think it's fine. You do have optional rules for your Casual Map: Dark Cave Lair....

[Griffin]

Well I like the map, but the Tar Pit rule is something that I feel is best kept for a C3G optional rule, not so much here on a casual map that most people will not even be able to build due to its huge size and terrain requirements.

I think it's fine. You do have optional rules for your Casual Map: Dark Cave Lair....
OH I know that WE have those optional rules in OUR Casual Map: Dark Cave Lair. Remember, we as a group take responsibility together for our successes and our failures. ;)

Soon after that map though, we had decided to stop creating scenario rules for our casual maps, and that is what that rule there is and what this rule here is - scenario rules.

[quozl]

Soon after that map though, we had decided to stop creating scenario rules for our casual maps, and that is what that rule there is and what this rule here is - scenario rules.

We did? I don't remember that! Could you link that, please?

[Griffin]

No. I don't care enough to try and find it. :p

[Griffin]

You guys can vote in a way that makes you happy and so will I. You don't need my vote. I don't think the optional rule is necessary or classy.

[Taeblewalker]

I also feel the rule makes sense for the setting.

[quozl]

I didn't see this in the rules posts but it's here: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1210292&postcount=502

We need to now build this from the PDF to make sure there are no mistakes. Once that's done, we can vote to release.

[Griffin]

I didn't see this in the rules posts but it's here: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1210292&postcount=502

We need to now build this from the PDF to make sure there are no mistakes. Once that's done, we can vote to release.
C3G Map Maker's Voting and Rules

1) For any decision to be finalized, a Proposition must be submitted In the C3G Map thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023061#post1023061) or in an individual map design thread in this manner so it is not confused with simple chatter or normal discussion: I Propose (what it is you are Proposing).
Only C3G Map Makers are allowed to make a formal proposition or vote. NOTE: A map may only be proposed to be released once a PDF has been created for it, and then entire map or scenario has been built based on that PDF and then reviewed. Also, it is ideal if each map or scenario can be built and reviewed by at least 2 C3G Map Makers that were not the lead designer.

[quozl]

Awesome! I'm not in ideal computer-reading conditions at the moment.

[Griffin]

Where is Taeble at? We need someone to build this map based on the PDF.

[Taeblewalker]

Sorry. I've been working three jobs and been busy for the holidays. I'll get to it really soon!

[Griffin]

Sorry. I've been working three jobs and been busy for the holidays. I'll get to it really soon!
Thanks for responding, and I hope you find time to actually enjoy Christmas with the fam. ;)

[Taeblewalker]

I managed so far to build a good deal of it. All of the level 1, and the big mountain, plus a little bit here and there. I should have some time in the next few days to get to the rest of it, but the harder part is done!

[Good Pig]

I wish I had the terrain to make this, so cool.

All it needs now are some customs for Sauron and Mister Sinister.

[Taeblewalker]

I have managed to build this map from the .pdf, minus the battlements and ladders (too tired right now). Almost finished! No glitches yet.

[Taeblewalker]

Finished building it from the .pdf! It looks great. I have to take it down now, to make room for more work stuff. :grumble:

[IAmBatman]

Can't wait until this awesome map gets itself some scenarios! ... but I probably will have to wait quite a bit until we have the right characters for such a scenario ... :-(

[quozl]

I propose this map be finalized as a C3G casual map.

[Taeblewalker]

Yea!

[Griffin]

Nay. I don't like the Tar pit rule, even just as a suggestion. That is more of a scenario feature and the Heroes may at some point like to rewrite some of the terrain rules and this would unfortunately be setting a precedent that they wouldn't agree with. Also, whether you really like it or not, there are some grammar issues with it and it is not worded to be congruent with the official Slippery Ice, which is what this essentially is.

Do we really want all shadow tiles to be slippery ice? :death_no:

[johnny139]

I dislike the idea of Shadow Tiles without anything beneath them, though. Seems unnatural.

[Griffin]

I dislike the idea of Shadow Tiles without anything beneath them, though. Seems unnatural.
Sounds like an issue you should take up with the official game then. But I do agree, and I would like to see their in game affects changed to something different as well, but I feel that is a decision to be made by the C3G Heroes, not its map dept.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, scenario maps should reallly avoid having special rules on them because that's really the domain of the scenarios themselves.

[Griffin]

I dislike the idea of Shadow Tiles without anything beneath them, though. Seems unnatural.
This doesn't change my points at all, but I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about your dislike for shadow tiles because you didn't like their special rule. I see what you are saying now, but I have no problem with the "water" tiles being placed on the table, no more so than I have with grass or any other type of tile placed on the table.

[quozl]

I am fine with small unobtrusive optional terrain rules.

On condition of the tar pit rule being worded better, I vote YEA.

Possible wording:

OPTIONAL RULE
Shadow tiles may be considered to be tar pits. Tar pits cost one extra move to enter and do not provide a defense bonus.

[Griffin]

Your not using the Slippery Ice wording though, and do you really want to make shadow tiles Slippery Ice? If so, that is just really bad designing. :poorpost:

[Margloth]

How about:
Optional Rule:
Shadow Tiles may be used as Tar Tiles.

If a figure moves onto a Tar Tile, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-10, the figure must end its move. If you roll an 11 or higher, the figure may continue its move as normal.

[Taeblewalker]

The point of having shadow in there at all is that it represents tar pits in a quasi-prehistoric setting. Shadow just doesn't make sense there.

[Griffin]

The point of having shadow in there at all is that it represents tar pits in a quasi-prehistoric setting. Shadow just doesn't make sense there.
I would recommend creating a different rule then that is more tar like and less Slippery Ice like. ;)

Also, where ever there is a sun or light, there is bound to be shadow, so I think it makes sense to have shadow there. I mean you have light producing lava on a planet with a sun, and you have a mountain and trees to provide cover...... all the ingredients you need for shadow.

[Taeblewalker]

I see your point, so would you vote yea if we adopted some of the suggested tar rules? We can even say, "If you wish to consider the shadow tiles to be tar pits, here are the suggested rules..."

How about: a figure must stop when it enters a tar space. When a figure that starts on a tar space attempts to move, including with any special movement power, it must roll a 20-sided die. On a 6-20, move normally. On a 1-5, the figure takes a wound and must end its end movement on the space on which it began.

[quozl]

I'd change it so it's like the Pit Trap glyph:

OPTIONAL RULE
All Shadow tiles are tar pits. After entering a tar pit, your figure is trapped. The trapped figure cannot move from this space. The figure can move off the tar pit only if a friendly figure occupies an adjacent space.

[Taeblewalker]

I thought of the pit trap, but it's only going to be entered if Doom send you into it with Mind Transfer. I think there should be a chance to escape it.

[quozl]

Yeah, but who in their right mind would enter a tar pit willingly?

[IAmBatman]

I see your point, so would you vote yea if we adopted some of the suggested tar rules? We can even say, "If you wish to consider the shadow tiles to be tar pits, here are the suggested rules..."

How about: a figure must stop when it enters a tar space. When a figure that starts on a tar space attempts to move, including with any special movement power, it must roll a 20-sided die. On a 6-20, move normally. On a 1-5, the figure takes a wound and must end its end movement on the space on which it began.

My stab at it ... (feeling better about there being this rule now that I'm realizing it's an Optional One).

OPTIONAL RULE: TAR PIT
You may treat all Shadow spaces as Tar spaces. When a figure you control enters a Tar space, it must end its movement. When a figure you control occupying a Tar space begins to move, you must first roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-5, that figure may not move this turn. If you roll a 6 or higher, the figure may move normally.

[quozl]

OPTIONAL RULE: TAR PIT
You may treat all Shadow spaces as Tar spaces. When a figure you control enters a Tar space, it must end its movement. When a figure you control occupying a Tar space begins to move, you must first roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-5, that figure may not move this turn. If you roll a 6 or higher, the figure may move normally.

If we're going with a d20 version, I'd like to add this:

Add 5 to the roll if the figure has Superstrength.

[johnny139]

I'd definitely be happy with a specific tar pit ruling. Bump up the roll on that with super strength (maybe 7 or higher, making it a slim chance at getting stuch with super strength) and it sounds good to me.

[Griffin]

You know what, I forgot that this was a casual map and I forgot what a casual map was (Over the El or something like that from BoM). C3G Heroes did ask us to create 3 different types of maps, and one of them was a casual map. When I said earlier that we shouldn't create special rules, it is because for some strange reason, my mind was stuck on competitive maps. So a Tar Pit rule is an OK idea to me, as long as the power is actually a good one.

It has just been a while since I was in full on Casual Mode I guess. Still though, a power for the tar needs to be a good one or the individual players could just imagine it is tar without having to have a special rule.

[Griffin]

Sorry, my internet is really slow right now.

Why does the power have to have so much tied to it? Why can't it just be something simple, subtle, and fun?

[Taeblewalker]

OPTIONAL RULE: TAR PIT
You may treat all Shadow spaces as Tar spaces. When a figure you control enters a Tar space, it must end its movement. When a figure you control occupying a Tar space begins to move, you must first roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-5, that figure may not move this turn. If you roll a 6 or higher, the figure may move normally.

If we're going with a d20 version, I'd like to add this:

Add 5 to the roll if the figure has Superstrength.

I'd definitely be happy with a specific tar pit ruling. Bump up the roll on that with super strength (maybe 7 or higher, making it a slim chance at getting stuch with super strength) and it sounds good to me.


OPTIONAL RULE: TAR PIT
You may treat all Shadow spaces as Tar spaces. When a figure you control enters a Tar space, it must end its movement. When a figure you control occupying a Tar space begins to move, you must first roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-7, that figure may not move this turn. If you roll an 8 or higher, the figure may move normally. Add 5 to the roll if the figure has Superstrength or is Huge.

How about this? And should we keep the extra defense die, since the figure is partially mired in tar and therefore less visible?

[IAmBatman]

I know I'm not in the Map Department, so this is the last time I'll chime in, but I think you guys should listen to Griff when it comes to keeping things simple. The less extra stuff you add for people to worry about, the more likely they are to actually want to play with that rule.

[quozl]

That's why I like the Pit Trap wording. Simple, thematic, and fun.

[Taeblewalker]

So what does everyone think about tar? Optional? Pit trap rules? Shadow rules if you choose not to use the optional rule?

[Griffin]

Even though I accept a special rule for a Casual map, I still don't think this one needs it, and I haven't heard one that made me think "this map is really enhanced by this rule".

[johnny139]

I still like the "slippery ice" rule for it, but that's just me. :shrug:

[A3n]

Even though I accept a special rule for a Casual map, I still don't think this one needs it, and I haven't heard one that made me think "this map is really enhanced by this rule".
I like the rule, mainly because it gives a purpose to the shadow tile inclusion. Using them as actual shadow tiles makes less thematic sense.

Cheers

[davidlhsl]

I still like the "slippery ice" rule for it, but that's just me. :shrug:

Not just you. :)

Heavy snow and slippery ice are functionally the same to keep things simple and easy to remember. The purpose of tar is to slow down figures, which is what slippery ice and heavy snow do. I would rather use the same rule rather than have a brand new one to remember.

Edit: Well, one difference is that tar can trap figures (same for quicksand), so you could create an optional rule. However, I still believe that tar isn't a significant enough part of the map to warrant anything more complex than the slippery ice rule.

[davidlhsl]

One other item to consider (I should have raised this earlier): Would you want fliers to occupy the capped areas of the ruins (other than the building with the ladders)? I would prefer fliers didn't.

Covering the capped areas with rocks (Platforms 5 & 6) or figures (Odin's Colosseum) would severely damage the aesthetics of the map, in my opinion. This is a case where a special map rule would be warranted.

[Taeblewalker]

The capped ruins do raise an interesting point, David. I was thinking that most figures fly or leap anyway, but perhaps we should consider something else, like a way to get up there for Cap.

[davidlhsl]

I just noticed that the pdf link connects to the Crime Alley map. :shock:

[quozl]

So what does everyone think about tar? Optional? Pit trap rules? Shadow rules if you choose not to use the optional rule?

Fine. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Also, pillars are fine capped or uncapped. It's a casual map.

We just need a decision so this can be voted on.

[Taeblewalker]

I updated the first post with this:

Shadow tiles may beconsidered to be tar pits. If so, the do not provide the shadow bonus to defense. Also, the figure is trapped. The trapped figure cannot move from this space. The figure can move off the Glyph of Proftaka only if a friendly figure occupies an adjacent space.

[quozl]

Probably shouldn't reference the Proftaka glyph.

OPTIONAL RULE
All shadow tiles may be considered to be tar pits. If so, they do not provide the shadow bonus to defense. After entering a tar pit, your figure is trapped. The trapped figure cannot move from this space. The figure can move off the tar pit only if a friendly figure occupies an adjacent space.

[Taeblewalker]

:duh:

Fixed in first post.

[Griffin]

I am feeling flexible and generous with my "yeas" so you may want to propose something soon if you can. :lol:

[Taeblewalker]

I propose that we pass Savage Land as a casual C3G map.

[quozl]

I think we need the PDF fixed first.

[A3n]

I think we need the PDF fixed first.

Done :up:

[quozl]

Taeble, can we get the link to the PDF fixed on the front page?

[Taeblewalker]

Taeble, can we get the link to the PDF fixed on the front page?

Fixed!

[quozl]

Thanks! I vote YEA to release.

[Griffin]

Yea

[A3n]

Yea

[Taeblewalker]

Yea!

[davidlhsl]

:bump:

Just checking to see if this is passed and ready to go in the books.

Also - I missed Lost when it was on television, and I've begun watching the series on DVD. I'm almost finished with the first season, and I can't help but think of this map when watching it.

[quozl]

Yep, just needs the title updated and it's good to go!

[Taeblewalker]

I updated the thread title.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

The Gang of Four will be playing the following Sherman Davies-created scenario on this map on 2/8/13:

It will still be a four-player (in two teams) superhero scenario using my customs of the six Avengers characters who made up the movie roster: Black Widow, Captain America, Hawkeye, Hulk, Iron Man and Thor. Those six heroes will be divided into two teams: Black Widow, Cap and Hulk on one team, and Hawkeye, Iron Man and Thor on the other. The other two players will split 1500 points between them any way they choose - that is, one player may draft 800 points and leave the other with 700, etc... The bad guys can only draft from Marro or Soulborg cards, with no start zone limitation on the size of their armies. I figure between Charley's collection and my own, we should have enough figures to fill out 1500 points.

We will be playing on a C3G map that was designed by Nick himself, The Savage Land:


A C3G Casual Map
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_619143_original.jpg


http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/savage_land_again_148936_original.jpg

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29388



The invading alien forces will be trying to retrieve two powerful artifacts to aid their goals of world conquest, with the Avengers trying to stop them. The Avengers will have start zone spaces in the areas of the icy mountain and ruins, where the two glyphs representing the artifacts will be. The aliens start off the battlefield, entering in the bottom right corner, swamp area of the map. Their goal will be to retrieve both glyphs and exit the board where they entered. Common figures may carry the glyphs, which are placed under the carrying figure and dropped if the carrying figure is destroyed. The game ends after 20 rounds - if the aliens have not removed both glyphs from the battlefield by then, the bad guys lose.

SPECIAL SCENARIO RULES

1) We will be trying out my Knockback rules for this scenario.


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn185/gwar2d2/Heroscape%20customs/Knockback.jpg



2) We will be using the shadow spaces as tar pits, as per the Savage Land map rules.

3) The Savage Land is a dangerous place, with crumbling ruins, avalanches or random animal attacks; at the end of each round, each player may choose one opponent's figure that is adjacent to a glacier, ruin or tree. Roll an attack die for that figure. If a skull is rolled, it takes one unblockable hit.


The teams/armies are as follows:



Bad Guys

Taeblewalker:

300 Deathstalkers x 3
270 Marrden Hounds x 3
180 Q9
750



Sherman:


300 Marro Drones x 6
220 Tor-Kul-Na
135 Wo-Sa-Ga
90 Nagrubs x 3
745



Good Guys

chas:





http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn185/gwar2d2/Marvel%20customs/Hulk.jpg

http://www.hasbro.com/common/images/heroscape/characters/master/B19D0FE0-D56F-E112-4969FE1B9A516F13.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn185/gwar2d2/Marvel%20customs/BlackWidow_zps72fffe7a.jpg



kolakoski:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn185/gwar2d2/Marvel%20customs/Hawkeye_zps64c89c00.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn185/gwar2d2/Marvel%20customs/IronManExtremis.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn185/gwar2d2/Marvel%20customs/Thor_zps3b7c3644.jpg

[quozl]

Awesome! How is Nick doing?

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Awesome! How is Nick doing?

As far as I know, fine. I haven't seen him in quite some time. He will be at this Friday's gathering.

[Johngee]

Best wishes tothe NycGo4 for the awesomest battle of all time in the midst of blizzard Nemo.

Nick ~ this is a great looking map and the PDF file is fantastic; I especially like your take on turning shadows into tar pits - so COOL! Who said that HeroScape died when it went to WotC? This is one heck of an imaginative community of miniature gamers.

[Taeblewalker]

Thank you! I have been out of the loop for what feels like forever, but I'm glad that everyone is getting mileage out of my contributions.

[quozl]

Good to see you around again, Nick!

[chas]

;) This great map has been up now for weeks at my place, where its seen many, many games so far. Everyone loves it. Recently Nick was over to point out how different parts of the map reflect the TV Show. Congratulations to Taeblewalker, and anyone who gets to play on The Savage Land.

[davidlhsl]

;) This great map has been up now for weeks at my place, where its seen many, many games so far. Everyone loves it. Recently Nick was over to point out how different parts of the map reflect the TV Show. Congratulations to Taeblewalker, and anyone who gets to play on The Savage Land.

This map definitely has Epic written all over it.

[Johngee]

Well met!

The Gang of Four will be playing the following Sherman Davies-created scenario on this map on 2/8/13:
<~snip/snip~>

SOOooooo... how did Sherm's scenario work out on Nick's map???

Are you going to post an After Action - / Game Session - Report??

And did you take any photos?

&obtw: On the BoardGameGeek site under a HeroScape: Rise of the Valkyrie Master Set" forum, guy named: SurrenderMonkey (Matthew) posted a nice session report with a bunch of pictures (http://www.BoardGameGeek.com/thread/933692/ (http://www.BoardGameGeek.com/thread/933692/) ), which I enjoyed reading and seeing. When I noticed that he lives in Manhattan, I contacted him via PM to say, "I know there's still other HS'ers playing in NYC (i.e the Gang O'4), and also somewhere on Long Island and I encouraged him to check out the M.A.R.S. discussion threads, because he (like any one else on this site) would be welcomed at any of our tournament events."