The Book of Police Headquarters Map

[mrcrimson]

The Book of Police Headquarters Map

A C3G Casual Map

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/5/3/0/1/police_station_original.jpg
Download PDF File Here (http://c3ggames.com/C3G/released/maps/C3G-MAP_PoliceHeadquarters.pdf)


Required Sets: 2 Rise of the Valkyrie™ Master Sets, 3 Fortress of the Archkyrie™, 2 Road to the Forgotten Forests™, 5 Marvel Master Sets™
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Police Headquarters Bio - Home to the cities finest, the Police Headquarters has remained true for over a century. Standing like a beacon to all that is true and good in this city...




-Rulings and Clarifications-

N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A_________________________________________________________________

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
TBA

[quozl]

Is this supposed to be for two sides with the same number of points?

[mrcrimson]

Yeah its a two player map but I haven't really gone deep enough into it to determine what point differences there should be if any between the two sides. I'm planning on running some tests on it tonight after work.

[quozl]

Just a thought to cut down on the build requirements:

Cut a level off the building height to try to get it down to 2 castle sets and use some grass around the building and behind the warehouses to replace some of the concrete. I think it's currently using like 5 marvel sets.

[Griffin]

OK, I have a few things to say about this one.

I love the design of the Police building, and I am glad that you left the back open so you could actually get in there and play
The lower ladder inside is turned backwards, and it cannot actually snap into the tile like that.
The lower ladder inside is not entirely against a wall. Now this is OK sometimes, but seeing as how the ladder is awkwardly inside of the building, it will not be very playable, as it will come down frequently when you try and climb it with some figures.
The lower ladder should also be angle in a way so that it is facing the player who is looking at it from the back of the building. This will help the player who is using it and prevent them from having to hook their hand in awkward positions.
The upper ladder is not touching the floor at the bottom. Not only is that going to cause structural problems, but it is also not allowed by the rulebook.
I think that I would like to see the upper and lower ladder be connected somehow, and facing the player in the back of the building to make it a bit more user friendly.
I would like for there to be a ladder on the outside of the building to give the outsiders a chance to get up there and inside, without having to fly or beat the door down.

[Griffin]

OH, also, there is a 5 hex Road tile on top of the building that is technically not supported underneath, but I think that it is fine since it is supported on its sides. But that piece is something to look out for when we build this one.

[mrcrimson]

Those are great suggestions. After work I'll throw some grass behind the warehouses and around the police station. Did the huge ladder I put outside next to the front door that gets outsiders to the roof not show up in vs? This is my first time using vs so I didn't realize I put the ladder backwards. Will definitly correct that and rework it like you suggested griff to be one long ladder from the first floor to the roof. Unfortunately the three castle thing I couldn't think of a way to get around since I needed 3 doors (front door, back door, and prison cell door). Thanks for the help guys! :)

[mrcrimson]

Oh and ill throw some grass or rock tiles under the police. Station as level one since level one isn't seen. I may just remove the 5 hex road on top as well since there's already a lot of space to fight up there anyways.

[quozl]

Another option to cover holes in the roof is to make the roof out of rock tiles. Use a 24-hexer or two to cover things up.

[Taeblewalker]

I likr Quozl's idea. Also, the map looks good, provided the assault force has a greater force (perhaps 1.5 times the defenders). A grassy knoll might look nice behind the red start zone as well.

[A3n]

I like the idea but I am not fond of the blank walls all the way around, can you break it up with a couple of walls left out to act like windows?

I personally then either add battlement to act like a balcony or wall bases topped with a single hex tile to be just a window. You can see how I do both in this picture (http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/Corner_Highrise.jpg). This will also provide another entrance & exit from the building.

Cheers

[mrcrimson]

I'm digging the rock roof as well. And a grassy knoll would look sweet. At work on the blackberry, when I get home I'll make the changes.

[Xn F M]

I like the idea but I am not fond of the blank walls all the way around, can you break it up with a couple of walls left out to act like windows?

I've seen people butt two wall ends together to get the effect of a window. I don't know if it would work on this build, but it would be easy to check in VS.

[IAmBatman]

That's a really cool idea, Xn F M! :-)

[mrcrimson]

Ok, just rebuilt this puppy using a lot of your guys suggestions and I am loving it! Now just gotta rebuild it in VS. see ya in a couple of hours.
EDIT
Ok, links to version 2 on front page along with new pics. Thanks for the suggestions guys! :)

[Taeblewalker]

I love the grassy knoll! :)

As for the rebuilding of the HQ, it looks great. You can always throw more road/wall walk on top if you want the road bonus, but it works fine as is. In fact, I would think that a roof would be less walkable on a typical building than a sidewalk or road would, so the rock tiles work just fine.

[Griffin]

OK, things are looking better. Here are my new critiques:

The cell door is facing the wrong way. The lock to the door should not be on the inside where the prisoner would be, the cops should be in control of the door. Also, with the door faced in that direction, currently there is not enough room to open the door with a figure inside, it would bump them against the wall. I would really like the cell to be a playable aspect of the map, and currently it is not. I wouldn't mind it being on the ground floor, and honestly I would rather have that. Would you consider getting rid of the side entrance or extending it out further to get the door to fit? Perhaps you should consider using two castles instead of one.
The ladder is still not easily accessible. There is too much reaching and arm hooking and finger/figure-playing for that ladder to be what I would consider player friendly.
You are stacking the ladders on top of each other level after level. In fact, ladders are two level tall each, so you should place a ladder rung, skip a level, then place the next ladder rung on top of it. For whatever reason the program does not account for their true height, and it will not detect an error if you stack them to closely like the way you currently have them.

[badgermaniac]

Just a thought based on personal preference, but whenever I am working with a building that has a playable roof, which obviously is a huge advantage to flying characters, I try to not make it too tall. Putting ladders on the side helps the non-fliers, but for tall buildings, it just takes them SO long to get to the top. In the meantime, anyone at the top with a ranged attack can just stand on the top and take pot-shots on them as they climb.

So, let's say that Captain America takes the long climb up to the top to get to Doc Doom. Doom can sit at the top of the ladder while he climbs. Then, once Cap gets there, Doom can just fly back down to the bottom.

Ultimately, this aspect of the game is impossible to work around completely, but when I am map building, I try to make the buildings as "short" as possible.

I know the "double" tiered height probably looks better, but if/when I build it, I will probably try to not make it so tall.

[mrcrimson]

Lol I didn't even think about the prisoner having the lock on his side. I gotta take the family to target but when I get home I'll rework it with the new suggestions (ladder in better place, cell big enough to house single and double spaced guys and door lock in correct side, possibly single story building). Thanks guys!

[Griffin]

Lol I didn't even think about the prisoner having the lock on his side. I gotta take the family to target but when I get home I'll rework it with the new suggestions (ladder in better place, cell big enough to house single and double spaced guys and door lock in correct side, possibly single story building). Thanks guys!No worries, take your time. As far as the height of buildings go, what you have is great! In super scape there is no such thing as too big or epic. We are definitely going to be kicking out some epic maps, there is no reason you can't start us off with a big Police Building. :thumbsup:

[badgermaniac]

Lol I didn't even think about the prisoner having the lock on his side. I gotta take the family to target but when I get home I'll rework it with the new suggestions (ladder in better place, cell big enough to house single and double spaced guys and door lock in correct side, possibly single story building). Thanks guys!No worries, take your time. As far as the height of buildings go, what you have is great! In super scape there is no such thing as too big or epic. We are definitely going to be kicking out some epic maps, there is no reason you can't start us off with a big Police Building. :thumbsup:

Obviously he CAN do whatever he wants. And yes, the building LOOKS great the way it is. However, for someone that is so anal about not play-testing on "broken" or unfair maps, making a building too high is akin to not putting ladders on.

I am simply pointing out that having an "epic" building fits the "fun" factor that Grungebob refers to, but is not consistent with your desire to have perfectly balanced tournament style buildings, characters, scenarios, etc.

It is funny to see you flip-flop all over the place in order to fit your preconceived notions.

Either way MrCrimson, good job.

[Griffin]

Badger, we are not creating tournament worthy maps here. We are creating maps for Supers that can be built by anyone anytime they need one. I love giant epic maps, and I love tourney maps, we are creating all kinds of maps here to fill all of our future map needs. If someone wants to build a giant 100 story building for metropolise, we don't have a problem with that.

Again, this project is not designed to fit just one type of map need, we are designing all sorts of maps, with no limit in terrain, height, style, or imagination.

[mrcrimson]

I'm really liking the two story design so I'm gonna stick with it, but I'm gonna get rid of the side door. That should allow for more room for a downstairs cell. I've never done competition play so I'm not sure what exactly makes up a tournament map, I'm just making ones that people might look at and say, "hey that's a pretty neat lookin map, looks fun". That being said, I'm completely open to any suggestions to change it to make it more enjoyable/easier to play on. Thanks again for your help guys.

[Griffin]

I'm just making ones that people might look at and say, "hey that's a pretty neat lookin map, looks fun".And I think that there is a big need for that type of map. Plus, C3G Mainframe can pick one of our maps at some point and decide that it looks good, and then create a scenario for it.
Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

[A3n]

I don't want to harp on it, & this will be the last time I say it, IMPO it would look even better with a couple of windows, at least on the second floor.

Other than that the map looks great & will be all the more playable with Griffin's suggestions.

Cheers

[mrcrimson]

LOL I dont think your harping at all A3n. Since I'm moving the cell down stairs, I'll try and work in some windows. I think it might look pretty neat.

[badgermaniac]

.....

[mrcrimson]

Updated file with windows, new cell placement, and less master sets.

[Griffin]

:bowdown: This map looks great!

Does this map really require 3 Castles? I have the VS file (thanks for that) so I am gonna see if we can minimize the requirements some, but this maps is stunningly impressive. :thumbsup:

[mrcrimson]

Thanks. Its great its because of the team effort and suggestions (a3n's idea of windows, griff's idea about the ladders and cell placement, Q's idea of rock top, table's grassy knoll.) I'm totally loving the team aspect of the C3G!

[A3n]

I haven't the time to look at the VS this morning (before work) but the updated photo looks BRILLIANT. I think you have taken everybody's feedback on board & produced a wonderful map.

Cheers

[Griffin]

I haven't the time to look at the VS this morning (before work) but the updated photo looks BRILLIANT. I think you have taken everybody's feedback on board & produced a wonderful map.

Cheers
Agreed.

[Taeblewalker]

It really has come together. Nice work!

[IAmBatman]

Loving the revamped look of this one! One small suggestion, if you have any concrete or road tiles to spare in this design, is that it might make the overall look of the building more "urban" if you could cover some of the rock tile roof with concrete or road tile ...

[Taeblewalker]

Loving the revamped look of this one! One small suggestion, if you have any concrete or road tiles to spare in this design, is that it might make the overall look of the building more "urban" if you could cover some of the rock tile roof with concrete or road tile ...

Maybe even asphalt, to represent roof tiles.

[mrcrimson]

yeah I've got quite a few I could use. I think I have like 6 marvels. I've got two forest packs I could get road from too. I'll throw some asphalt up there to see how it looks. I came back into the room where the board is to find that my 2 year old had his imaginext batman guys all over it, the trees were in different places and now I'm missing a door. When I thought scape was being discontinued I bought up everything I could find locally, and as a result I've got like 6 sealed master set 1's in the garage.

[mrcrimson]

I just got done throwing some concrete up top. Will update the VS tonight with the concrete roof. I've also noticed that by adding the concrete it makes the roof more sturdy for figures to stand on. The map looks good, but it looks even better with cars in the road and a commissioner and batman figure on the roof. I've also put my c3g cops in the windows with batgirl and robin guarding the cell which houses black mask.

[Taeblewalker]

The scene sounds cool. Regarding the road and cars, should we make all city streets 4 hexes wide? My first map has them at three, which might work with a "fire lane" down the middle. But the four hexes kind of look better.
Should we standardize roads to four hexes in the group? Thoughts?

[mrcrimson]

If you proposed it I would vote for it. Four hexes look good as streets with cars on them. I am using my sons speed racer cars he got years back in happy meals, although I'd rather have better looking vehicles.

[Griffin]

I would vote against standardized roads, and here is why:

That would go against the spirit of this project by placing restrictions on the artist. We don't have terrain restrictions. Why should we have build restrictions?
There are many different sizes of roads, highways, walkways, etc.
Asphalt doesn't always have to be translated as roads. It could be a basement, industrial rooftop, tennis court, building structures, etc.I really hope those points dissuade you guys from that line of thought.

[mrcrimson]

After I posted that I started thinking about one way streets and how a standard size road would not work. Consider my statement withdrawn.

[IAmBatman]

But, as much as I agree with Griff on this one (and I do), I've gotta say that having plenty of maps big enough to drive properly scaled cars around on would be pretty sweet. :-D

[Griffin]

But, as much as I agree with Griff on this one (and I do), I've gotta say that having plenty of maps big enough to drive properly scaled cars around on would be pretty sweet. :-DI am pretty sure that a two hex wide road would compensate for two car lanes. Besides, even if we did a one hex road, it's not like there is no such thing as a one way street or walk way.

[Taeblewalker]

All good points. I think it's better perhaps to say that a 4-hex wide road is a pretty good main thoroughfare, whilst my City Streets map is perhaps more of a side street. We should probably have those as informal guidelines, and I'll leave my map as is.

[IAmBatman]

I'm just looking for a street big enough for a car to turn around on when using GreyOwl's vehicle rules. :-P

[Taeblewalker]

I thought cars flipped for free. :lol:

[Taeblewalker]

Here is essentially the same map but I added a little fountain in front of the HQ. Perhaps it adds something? Maybe a different placement? I wanted to do a fountain that was a little bit wider (three hexes by 1 hex of water) but this fits nicely.

Polic HQ (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2100)

[IAmBatman]

I thought cars flipped for free. :lol:

You know, the sad part is, I don't even remember at this point. :-P

[A3n]

I thought cars flipped for free. :lol:

You know, the sad part is, I don't even remember at this point. :-P

In the new basic rules yes they do, but not the advanced rules.

I'm in favour of us just saying that our standard size road is 4 hexes but using what we feel is right for our map at the time.

BTW: I can picture a large game with my corner High-rise next to your Police Headquarters - I don't think it would take much for us to align them so they could :ponder:.


Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

I thought cars flipped for free. :lol:

You know, the sad part is, I don't even remember at this point. :-P

In the new basic rules yes they do, but not the advanced rules.

I'm in favour of us just saying that our standard size road is 4 hexes but using what we feel is right for our map at the time.

BTW: I can picture a large game with my corner High-rise next to your Police Headquarters - I don't think it would take much for us to align them so they could :ponder:.


Cheers

Perhaps a City Street could lead into the whole area...

[mrcrimson]

I would really enjoy seeing a city with these maps combined. My wife is on farmville right now so I am not able to view the map with the fountain in front (I do most of my Heroscapers posting on my blackberry) but if she gets off soon ill check it out. I bought a lamborgini at the dollar tree that I have placed on the map with captain America in front. I took pictures to show to get your guys opinion on if its to scale or not. If so I'm buying one in every color. Ill post them when she gets off facebook.
EDIT
Heres the car. will these work?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/mrcrimson/001-2.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/mrcrimson/002.jpg

[A3n]

that scale looks pretty close to me. Nice find.

Cheers

[whitestuff]

that scale looks pretty close to me. Nice find.

Cheers
Agreed.

I'll have three.

[Taeblewalker]

Cool.

[Griffin]

I want to go to there. :lol:

[A3n]

This is how I see the three maps (Corner High-rise, Assault on Police HQ, & City Streets) can go together as they are now without modification.

http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/3MapsCombined.jpg

Looks like a lot of fun if we had a joining map :D.

Cheers

[mrcrimson]

That looks incredible! I would love to play a multi player high points game one that city. Great work a3n!

[IAmBatman]

Sweet! So who's going to do a map with that turn in the street?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I am currently working on a City Skyline map with multiple taller buildings. Has an intersection and everything!

[Taeblewalker]

I have a map that is a large corner park. It may not be a perfect fit, and I am still waiting for City Streets to have the official seal before posting my next (which is a different map altogether anyway), but in the interests of sharing:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/corner_park_original.jpg

[IAmBatman]

Looks like that needs just a little bit more asphalt to make a single, contiguous street.

[mrcrimson]

Updated first post to show version 4 which has start zones removed and added a layer of concrete to the roof per bats suggestion. Its clocking in at 2 master set 1's, 2 roads, 3 castles, and 5 marvels.

[IAmBatman]

Five Marvels? Youch! It does look really awesome though! :-)

[mrcrimson]

its a good thing when the drought hit i bought 8 marvels and 6 master set 1's huh? :)

[IAmBatman]

<------- jeeeeeealous!

[mrcrimson]

I will never forget the look on my wife's face when I pulled up to her cart at target with a cart filled with marvels each priced at like 11 bucks.
Mary "are you serious?"
Jared "Yeah. You ready to check out?"
Mary- rolls eyes and heads to checkout stand.

It was priceless.

[A3n]

OMG my wife would be hysterical.

[whitestuff]

I'd never get away with that either...

Lucky bugger.

[mrcrimson]

Here's a video of the map. I need to take it apart so that the kids don't lose any more pieces to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYCmMR--Qws&feature=player_embedded

[Griffin]

That video really helped me to get a better feel for the map. It certainly looks like a giant Police HQ to me. I loved seeing Gordon and Batman on the roof... so iconic.

[IAmBatman]

Wow, C3G's gone viral! :-)

[Taeblewalker]

Cool vid!

[quozl]

Would you be interested in making a 2 castle, 2 marvel version?

[Griffin]

Would you be interested in making a 2 castle, 2 marvel version?
I think quozl and I may be in the same boat. I have at least two of everything Heroscape related, and I think that there are a lot of others who have a very similar collection as well. If that is the case, we should try (although not feel pressured) to create maps that don't require more than two of a terrain set. I am not saying this as a requirement, only an encouragement, that if we can achieve the design that we are looking for with less terrain, we should.

[IAmBatman]

That video, by the way, really makes me want to see someone tackle Arkham ... maybe instead of using castle doors, though, cells with clear glass windows (represented by thin air) would be more workable?
Otherwise, you'd have to have like 30 Castle Sets to really make it work!

[Griffin]

However, that station looks awesome, and I don't want to loose its epic factor to save on terrain.

[Griffin]

That video, by the way, really makes me want to see someone tackle Arkham ... maybe instead of using castle doors, though, cells with clear glass windows (represented by thin air) would be more workable?
Otherwise, you'd have to have like 30 Castle Sets to really make it work!Perhaps some battlements that are close to a ceiling. That way you can look in, but a figure cannot move over it. Then we could have a special rule that allows you to open those by controlling the switch (glyph).

[IAmBatman]

That video, by the way, really makes me want to see someone tackle Arkham ... maybe instead of using castle doors, though, cells with clear glass windows (represented by thin air) would be more workable?
Otherwise, you'd have to have like 30 Castle Sets to really make it work!Perhaps some battlements that are close to a ceiling. That way you can look in, but a figure cannot move over it. Then we could have a special rule that allows you to open those by controlling the switch (glyph).

I like it. That sounds like an excellent use for all of those Battlements too!

[Griffin]

Seeing as how this map has undergone several collaborative changes, and it has been confirmed to have been built, I will be proposing this map to pass our standards of approval on one last condition: I would really like to see the Warehouse Ruins have the Destructible Wall sections in place. This will make the map look better, allow troops to hide from the cop snipers, and also allow for some possible destroying of objects. :twisted:

If you get those things done Crimson, this map is likely to pass at this point.

[Taeblewalker]

Any interest in adding water for the "river" with the idea that it connects to the high rise map? Otherwise, with the breakable wall section suggestion, I'm pretty much sold.

Also, good idea of battlements representing cages in Arkham!

[mrcrimson]

I never meant for the wall sections to be removed (you can see them in place in the video) but I can't figure out how to show them in place in VS.how do I do this?

[Taeblewalker]

I never meant for the wall sections to be removed (you can see them in place in the video) but I can't figure out how to show them in place in VS.how do I do this?

There are two versions of the warehouse ruins in VS; at least the later versions. Try using both. One is with the section, one without.

[Cavalier]

I never meant for the wall sections to be removed (you can see them in place in the video) but I can't figure out how to show them in place in VS.how do I do this?
There are 2 option, one is "Ruin" and the other is "Breaking Wall"
Ruin has the section in place, Breaking Wall does not.

[mrcrimson]

I edited file to include the wall section in there and updated it in the download section along with updating the pics in first post. Thanks for pointing out where it was guys. :) Not sure if we are allowed to vote for our own maps, but if so, I vote yeah on griffins proposition.

[A3n]

What about this roof configuration change (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/Assault%20on%20Police%20Headquarters%20version%204.hsc) just to even both sides & make it less jutty-outty.

If it works ok then I would be ready to vote. :D

Cheers

[Griffin]

Of coarse you can vote MRCrimson.

That is two votes for this map, we are 3 away.

[Griffin]

As long as Mrcrimson likes A3N's suggestion, I am fine either way.

[mrcrimson]

It looks cleaner. I like it. With your permission A3N, I'd like to update the download file to the version with your roof. So that makes 2?

[A3n]

It looks cleaner. I like it. With your permission A3N, I'd like to update the download file to the version with your roof. So that makes 2?

No problems at all with using my link.

Well I can't see anything else that I would want to change then so it's a YEA from me.

Cheers

[Griffin]

That is 3 votes total. We need two more to finalize it.

[quozl]

Do you see this in the casual or scenario category?

[IAmBatman]

I think this one has almost got to be Scenario.

[quozl]

I think this one has almost got to be Scenario.

Not necessarily. By giving "balancing directions" like "use twice as many points for the guys outside the police building", it could work for casual too.

[IAmBatman]

Touche.

[Taeblewalker]

I think scenario. The name of the map itself suggests it! I'm starting to wonder actually which maps will be in the purely casual category, since a scenario can be made from nearly any map. I think that a guideline for Scenario maps is if the maker has one in the back of his mind. For example, I'm making a Savage Land map, based on a scene from an X-men cartoon, and I have no particualr scenario in mind - I just think it looks cool! That will be a Casual map.

[Griffin]

I'm starting to wonder actually which maps will be in the purely casual category, since a scenario can be made from nearly any map. I think that a guideline for Scenario maps is if the maker has one in the back of his mind.Exactly. Anyone that has the authority to submit a Scenario in Ala Cart can choose any map that they want.
That is why I think all of our maps right now should be either Tournament or Casual. That way all of our maps can be used for competitive or Casual play, but can also be chosen as a Scenario if one chooses.
I don't think we/anyone should call a map a Scenario Map unless it actually has a Scenario to go with it. All of the C3G Scenario maps that currently exist are going to also be showcased as competitive or casual as well. So lets just call our maps Tournament or Casual for now, then when we create a Scenario, we can showcase it as a Scenario and also one of the other two categories as well.

[quozl]

So lets just call our maps Tournament or Casual for now, then when we create a Scenario, we can showcase it as a Scenario and also one of the other two categories as well.

If we do that, then some casual maps may need to have balancing directions like "see upcoming scenario" if they don't want to figure out points ratios. In that case, why not just categorize it as a scenario map with no scenario currently made for it yet?

[Griffin]

So lets just call our maps Tournament or Casual for now, then when we create a Scenario, we can showcase it as a Scenario and also one of the other two categories as well.

If we do that, then some casual maps may need to have balancing directions like "see upcoming scenario" if they don't want to figure out points ratios. In that case, why not just categorize it as a scenario map with no scenario currently made for it yet?
That post just doesn't make any since to me. :reapershrug:
Why would a casual map EVER need to have balancing issues? If someone wants a Scenario, they can either create a map, use one of our maps, or edit one of our maps... what is with you and "balancing"? :|

[quozl]

This (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1030244&postcount=169) is what I mean.

Call me if it's still not clear. I feel like we're not communicating our ideas to each other very well. (PM me for my phone #)

[IAmBatman]

I think according to your current definitions of "tournament" and "casual" both call for some degree of balancing, Griff. If you want to change the definition of "casual" and get rid of "scenario," that's one thing, but under the current definition, "casual" maps should be playable by even point armies without any great unbalancing effect brought on by the map itself.

[quozl]

under the current definition, "casual" maps should be playable by even point armies without any great unbalancing effect brought on by the map itself.

Or just some directions on how to balance. Like "use twice as many points if you take this side".

[A3n]

Yep, I agree with Quozl & kinda what Bats is saying. I see the Scenario maps as those that can't be balanced but still look too great to give up. So we put them in the Scenario category & hope somebody or us picks it up in the Ala Cart.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Casual Maps - Designed for casual play with balance in mind but an obvious or symmetrical balance isn't required. Example: if you put heights on one side of the map there has to be strategic means to attack those heights - that sort of thing.I assumed the balance aspect had to do with height point being accessible by ground units.

Quozl, go ahead and PM with you #, I have a directory of C3G members at this point. :lol:

[IAmBatman]

Yes - under my current impression of "casual maps" they should be ready to pick up and go for a game. That should include some idea of what relative sized armies would be fair on them ... though, without startzones, maybe that's impossible to determine?
So maybe redefinition into two categories is needed to just "balanced, competitive maps" and "aesthetically pleasing maps that are unconcerned with balance." i.e. tourney and casual, with scenario makers able to draw from either pool

[Griffin]

Yes - under my current impression of "casual maps" they should be ready to pick up and go for a game. That should include some idea of what relative sized armies would be fair on them ... though, without startzones, maybe that's impossible to determine?
So maybe redefinition into two categories is needed to just "balanced, competitive maps" and "aesthetically pleasing maps that are unconcerned with balance." i.e. tourney and casual, with scenario makers able to draw from either pool
It seems to me from this post, that we may need to also redefine tourney maps. It sounds like you want a step between tourney and casual, and I think that has to do with the BoVs standards of what a Tourney map is. Perhaps we should abandon the word Tourney, and just use the word Competitive.

[A3n]

Competitive sounds like a great word. :D

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, we don't want the C3G to try to "outdo" the BoV (which we're probably not capable of anyway ...).

[mad_wookiee]

Yes - under my current impression of "casual maps" they should be ready to pick up and go for a game. That should include some idea of what relative sized armies would be fair on them ... though, without startzones, maybe that's impossible to determine?
So maybe redefinition into two categories is needed to just "balanced, competitive maps" and "aesthetically pleasing maps that are unconcerned with balance." i.e. tourney and casual, with scenario makers able to draw from either pool
Perhaps this is part of what I haven't been getting about this discussion. I actually thought those were the definitions that we were already using for tourney and casual.

Honestly, I think we're giving folks too little credit here. If you give someone a great looking map with no directions, most players are just going to draft some armies and start playing. Heck, I'd bet 98% of people who play Heroscape have never heard of Virtualscape and simply just make up maps as they go along. People are smart enough to figure out how to play a game on a map with no handholding for balance issues.

Competitive play is something entirely different, because it assumes a certain rigor about army composition. A map for competitive play needs to be able to handle any army that a person would reasonably bring. It has to be flexible enough to allow players to expect fair competition when they can't alter their armies on a map-by-map basis. Casual maps don't need to address any of those concerns, as most players are smart enough to figure out how to make a game enjoyable all by themselves when they aren't constrained by the structure of a tournament environment.

[mad_wookiee]

That is 3 votes total. We need two more to finalize it.
Yea to finalize - looks great.

[Cavalier]

That is 3 votes total. We need two more to finalize it.
Yea to finalize - looks great.
Yea

[Griffin]

The Proposal passes and will be showcased in the C3G Books of Index thread.

[mrcrimson]

Thanks for your help everyone on this map. I am working on my second one right now which uses much less sets. Its based off the graveyard fight scene in the hush storyline. Right now I'm calling it "hidden graveyard" but I'm sure I will think of a better title between now and when I finish building it.

[Griffin]

The front page is updated and The Assault on Police Headquarters Map is now in the C3G Books of Index. :thumbsup:

[A3n]

Ok here's the pdf (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/C3G_PoliceHQ.pdf), however, I want to ask 2 questions:

As this is only the map & not a scenario should it really be called "Assault on Police Headquarters"? That to me is really a scenario name. Maybe just Police Headquarters?
Similar to the first question, should the bio be describing the planned assault on the Police HQ? Shouldn't it just be something generic about the Police HQ? Like "Home to the cities finest, the Police Headquarters has remained true for over a century. Standing like a beacon to all that is true and good in this city..." ~ Not petitioning for these words just trying to give an example of what I mean :)


Cheers

[Griffin]

Ok here's the pdf (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/C3G_PoliceHQ.pdf), however, I want to ask 2 questions:
As this is only the map & not a scenario should it really be called "Assault on Police Headquarters"? That to me is really a scenario name. Maybe just Police Headquarters?
Similar to the first question, should the bio be describing the planned assault on the Police HQ? Shouldn't it just be something generic about the Police HQ? Like "Home to the cities finest, the Police Headquarters has remained true for over a century. Standing like a beacon to all that is true and good in this city..." ~ Not petitioning for these words just trying to give an example of what I mean :)Cheers
#1 - The map should be called Police Headquarters
#2 - The bio should be about the location not the desired future scenario that may never happen

and my #3 - This should not be listed as a scenario map and nether should any map, until it actually has a scenario. All maps should be Competitive or Casual until they become a Scenario, then they can be showcased on the C3G mainframe as a Scenario and as a Scenario map. :2cents:

[mrcrimson]

Yeah map should be called that. I agree to all three of griff's points. My description is more of a scenario description. I like how you described it a3n. Let's go with your words. :)

[mrcrimson]

Griffin, when I get home to the computer ill change the name of the download file to police headquarters, but can you change the title of the thread and get "assault on" out of there?

[Griffin]

A3n, if you could update the PDF with the new Bio, I will go ahead and link it to the front page.

[A3n]

link has been updated.

Cheers

[Griffin]

MrCrimson, we need your download page to be changed from the VS file to the PDF file. First you need to save A3N's PDF on your computer, then go to the download page and click edit, then upload the PDF file from there. Thanks. Also, feel free to start your next map thread when ever you feel like it.

Good job and congratulations on your first completed map. :thumbsup:

[mrcrimson]

Thanks. Updated the download file to the pdf. Woke up this morning and wasn't thrilled with the 1 hex wide road surrounding the cemetery, so I'm reworking it now (It made the map seem too compact.) When I'm done I'll update the VS file and start its thread. Should have it up sometime tonight.

[Hahma]

Great looking epic scale map MrCrimson 8)

I don't have 5 Marvel sets (I got a couple of Cav's City Lexon mats to keep me from buying more Marvel Sets :D) but I have enough other sets to proxy any excess concrete I don't have.

It looks like it'd be natural to have the assault team starting behind the warehouse buildings obviously taking cover, but it would be cool if the defender had a big ranged attack to take out the walls of the warehouse to expose the attackers.

Perhaps there will be a unit come down the pipe in ala carte someday that gives them a move bonus on concrete/asphalt kind of like the road bonus to help a non-flyer get to the building quicker. I can see the likes of Spidey or Venom being fun assaulters.

Once again, great work MrCrimson and the C3G Map Making Team :thumbsup:

[Taeblewalker]

Great work! Our second finalized map.

[cwidje]

I am getting a 404 error when I try to download the PDF...

[Flame Gryphon]

I am getting a 404 error when I try to download the PDF...

Would you mind trying again? It should be fixed now. :)

[cwidje]

Thank you, it is. :)