C3G Map Maker's Discussion Thread

[quozl]

Declaration

We the People:
A3n (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=4382)
johnny139 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=1062)
quozl (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=3887)
Smithy Winfred (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=35907)
Yodaking (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=4224)
Taeblewalker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=94)

have agreed that there is a need in our community for archetypal Super Hero maps that are designed for fun, competitive, and casual game play with Super Hero units. We have decided to create these maps in a collaborative effort.

Map & Scenario Public Submissions Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43045)

List of works in progress:
Heir Apparent Scenario (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=40284), by johnny139
Tri-Ways War Zone (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1774099), by A3n
Battleship (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43940), by Smithy Winfred
Slums of Rio Scenario (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47272) by Yodaking
Sauron's Eyrie (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33383) by Taeblewalker

Public Map/Scenario Design:
Sacred Shrine (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=48140) by Zettian Juggernaut

New playesting form for maps!
Overall Look:


Stability:


Build difficulty:


Size:


Unit types positively affected:


Unit types negatively affected:


Key areas on the Map:


Areas not used much or at all:


Game 1:


yada, yada, yada


Game 2:


yada, yada, yada


Final Thoughts:
To view our finished work, visit the C3G Books of Index (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28457) thread and go to the Map section.

C3G Map Goals





1) To have a collection of archetypal maps that are designed for competition, fun, and/or casual game play with Super Heroes, and each map should have a Super Hero theme. Each map will be categorized into one of the 3 sections below.
Competitive Maps - Designed & tested to be balanced for equal point Superhero armies to compete in a competitive setting.
Scenario Maps - Designed to be used in scenarios. Has a clear theme. Tested for build & only passed if the group agrees it is usable.
Casual Maps - Designed for casual play with balance in mind but an obvious or symmetrical balance isn't required. Example: if you put heights on one side of the map there has to be strategic means to attack those heights - that sort of thing.2) For each map to have a specific theme with a general name. Example: the Bat-Cave could be called: Dark Cavern Lair

3) To have each Map be a collaborative effort from our C3G Map members while encouraging support, ideas, and effort from the entire Heroscapers.com community.

4) Maintain the position of at least 4 and no more than 8 core members who are enthusiastic, well respected, and active Heroscapers.com members

C3G Map Maker's Voting and Rules

1) For any decision to be finalized, a Proposition must be submitted in this thread, the C3G Map Makers Voting Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37713), or in an individual map design thread in this manner so it is not confused with simple chatter or normal discussion: I Propose (what it is you are Proposing).

Only C3G Map Makers are allowed to make a formal proposition or vote. NOTE: A map may only be proposed to be released once a PDF has been created for it, and then entire map or scenario has been built based on that PDF and then reviewed. Also, it is ideal if each map or scenario can be built and reviewed by at least 2 C3G Map Makers that were not the lead designer.

2) Each Proposition will have 2 days to achieve a majority vote. A Proposition will stay active for 2 days or until all Map Makers have voted, then the votes will be tallied. A vote consists of a C3G Map Maker posting yes or no in this thread, the C3G Map Makers Voting Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37713) or an individual design thread. All active C3G Map Makers will have their name in the form of a link to their Heroscapers.com profile page on the first page of this thread. Once a Proposition has passed it can only be overturned with a unanimous vote by all C3G Map Makers.

3) If there is a split decision on a Proposition, then any C3G Sidekick or Hero from the C3G Mainframe may respond to the split decision by voting. The first C3G Mainframe member to respond will have the deciding vote.

4) For a C3G Map Maker to design a custom for this project, they must simply follow the guide lines laid down in this post. This process should be fun and structured, if at any time there is a rule that is hindering the process, the group may simply bypass the rule for the sake of progress only.






C3G MAP MAKER'S PRODUCTION GUIDE
DESIGN PHASEC3G Map Makers may start new threads with a Map Design. No C3G Map Maker may have more than one active design thread at one time.

The following are the minimum requirements for posting a new map design thread in the C3G forum before moving it to the Playtesting Phase.

Fill out this template for a Casual Map:





The Book of (Name) Map






A C3G Casual Map

Download the VS/PDF File

SETUP:

(What terrain sets are required)

SPECIAL RULES:

(Not required, but is optional)

MAP BIO: (A short bio that describes the map)

_________________________________________________________________







-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-


After at least 48 hours have passed, a proposition to move to the Final Editing Phase can be made.

Fill out this template for a Competitive Map:





The Book of (Name) Map







A C3G Competitive Map

Download the VS/PDF File

SETUP:

(What terrain sets are required)

SPECIAL RULES:

(Not required, but is optional)

MAP BIO: (A short bio that describes the map)

_________________________________________________________________







-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial playtest

After at least 48 hours have passed, a proposition to move to the Playtesting Phase can be made.

Fill out this template for a Scenario Map:





The Book of (Name) Scenario






A C3G Scenario

Download the VS/PDF File

(SCENARIO NAME)

(Number of players)

(Scenario Bio italicized and heavily thematic. Often read to the players before the game starts to set the thematic mood.)

GOAL:

(Generic and thematic goal as to what each player must accomplish)

SETUP:

(A detailed list of what pregame items are needed to play the scenario, and where they should be placed. Examples are: Destructible Objects and their placement (or modifications like whether or not the Castle Door is in place), what terrain sets are required, what specific figures are needed, etc.)

SPECIAL RULES:

(Rules that are not part of the normal game, but are applied to augment the game in a way that makes it a scenario)

VICTORY:

(The conditions on which each player will know when they have or have not won. A common official line is "When the other players have no figures left on the battlefield you win.")

MAP BIO: (A short bio that describes the actual location (the map itself and not the scenario))

_________________________________________________________________







-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial playtest

After at least a week (168 hours) have passed, an initial playtest can be done by any Map Maker or C3G Hero, then a proposition to move to the Playtesting Phase can be made.


PLAYTESTING PHASEOnce C3G Map Design Threads have been moved to the Playtesting Phase, they will be posted in the public Playtest Sign-up Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1067930#post1067930). Any Heroscaper, C3G Hero, C3G Sidekick, or C3G Ally can sign-up for one playtest at a time. The Playtester must post any completed Playtest in the Map's Design Thread.

New playesting form for maps!
Overall Look:


Stability:


Build difficulty:


Size:


Unit types positively affected:


Unit types negatively affected:


Key areas on the Map:


Areas not used much or at all:


Game 1:


yada, yada, yada


Game 2:


yada, yada, yada


Final Thoughts:


The following are the minimum requirements for Playtesting any C3G Design and moving it to the Final Editing Phase.
Casual Map Design: N/A. No playtesting is required and Casual Maps move directly from the Design Phase to the Final Editing Phase.
Competitive Map Design: 2 Playtesters are required. Each playtester should build the map then complete three army tests and give feedback. Playtested Competitive Map Designs must be approved by a majority C3G Map Maker vote to move to the Final Editing Phase.
Scenario Design: 3 Playtesters are required. Each playtester should build the map then complete at least one test of the Scenario and give feedback. Playtested Scenario Designs must be approved by a majority C3G Map Maker vote to move to the Final Editing Phase.
FINAL EDITING PHASEOnce C3G Map Design threads have been moved to the Final Editing Phase, certain requirements must be met for the Private Designs to move to the release phase.

- A PDF must be created for the Map or Scenario.

- At least one Heroscapers.com member must build the map to confirm that the build instructions work and are correct. - Any C3G Map Maker may stop this phase by asking for 48 hours for more playtesting. After 48 hours, the voting process may resume.

The vote to pass in this phase must be a unanimous vote among the Map Makers. However, if a Map Maker fails to vote yea or nay within 48 hours, their vote is forfeited and is not needed to pass the unit. At the end of 48 hours, all votes will be tallied.


RELEASE PHASEOnce a C3G Map design is approved for "Release", it will be immediately released to the public.
STARTING OVEROnce a Map Design has been moved to the public, the Lead Designer may go back to the Design Phase.

After starting a map/scenario design thread, post a link here in this thread so that it can be posted on the front page.

[Cavalier]

Each map must use these terrain set parameters: (up for further discussion and agreement)
I'd love to hear every one's opinions on this point. I understand the need for restrictions (every time Bats wants to build on of my maps, he says something along the lines of '3 Marvel sets short';)). But I also don't want us limiting the possibility of epic Super Hero maps with restrictions that are too stringent.

[Griffin]

Each map must use these terrain set parameters: (up for further discussion and agreement)I'd love to hear every one's opinions on this point. I understand the need for restrictions (every time Bats wants to build on of my maps, he says something along the lines of '3 Marvel sets short';)). But I also don't want us limiting the possibility of epic Super Hero maps with restrictions that are too stringent.What if there was no limit? What if we had a large collection of maps that ranged from minimal requirement to near-weirdscaper potential?

[Cavalier]

Each map must use these terrain set parameters: (up for further discussion and agreement)I'd love to hear every one's opinions on this point. I understand the need for restrictions (every time Bats wants to build on of my maps, he says something along the lines of '3 Marvel sets short';)). But I also don't want us limiting the possibility of epic Super Hero maps with restrictions that are too stringent.What if there was no limit? What if we had a large collection of maps that ranged from minimal requirement to near-weirdscaper potential?
Personally, I think this would be great. Especially if we clearly delineate the requirements for each map, so that the community can immediately know if they can build any given map. And also perhaps some times having a 'mini' version of some maps.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - I think no limits is awesome. And I think listening to feedback from the community/team after building a map and creating alternate versions of the originals that are more "community friendly" in size is awesome too.

[IAmBatman]

Btw, though I don't feel I have the time or skills to ask for full membership here, I'll definitely be following this with great interest and at least participating in the discussion.

[quozl]

Rules for Map Designs


Each map must have a theme that is Super Hero based.
Each map must have PDF and/or a VirtualScape file so the build instruction can be shared.
Each map must have a generic name that is not tied to any one set location that is specific to a comic universe.
Each map must use these terrain set parameters: (up for further discussion and agreement)
My opinions:

1. If you mean that the map should be designed for use with Marvel and C3G figures, definitely. I would also like to see Super Hero scenarios.

2. Of course.

3. Why? Who cares what they want to name it? I really don't want to see a dozen variations of the name "secret base".

4. Terrain sets required should be specified. That should be the only requirement.

[Griffin]

Quozl, we all sorta agreed in the BoM thread that maps would not be specific to a particular named location.

Also, why do you think there should be a terrain requirement? I am not saying that I think it is a bad idea or a good idea, I just want to know why you think it is a good one.

[quozl]

Quozl, we all sorta agreed in the BoM thread that maps would not be specific to a particular named location.

Also, why do you think there should be a terrain requirement? I am not saying that I think it is a bad idea or a good idea, I just want to know why you think it is a good one.

Names: As long as we're not using trademarked names, I say go for it! Use whatever names you like.

Terrain: I meant each map should specify the terrain sets it requires and no general requirements need to be set (except that if you want others to play on it, they'll need the sets to build it). Sorry I was unclear.

[Cavalier]

Rules for Map Designs



Each map must have a theme that is Super Hero based.
Each map must have PDF and/or a VirtualScape file so the build instruction can be shared.
Each map must have a generic name that is not tied to any one set location that is specific to a comic universe.
Each map must use these terrain set parameters: (up for further discussion and agreement)

My opinions:

1. If you mean that the map should be designed for use with Marvel and C3G figures, definitely. I would also like to see Super Hero scenarios. Yes, that is the point of the project.

2. Of course. Agreed ;)

3. Why? Who cares what they want to name it? I really don't want to see a dozen variations of the name "secret base". This was discussed in the BoM thread where this idea came to life. Rather than limiting the theme of a map to a single universe (Batcave, Baxter Building, etc), we felt it was a better idea to say "Underground Lair", "High Tech Lab", etc. This isn't to say that you can't be creative with names, just not naming a specific location from any Universe.

4. Terrain sets required should be specified. That should be the only requirement. See above.
Welcome to the discussion.

[quozl]

Welcome to the discussion.

Thanks! I should warn you though that I am very opinionated. ;)

[Hahma]

Great idea for C3G maps

I'll check in when I can and maybe chip in now and again if I can.

[Griffin]

Quozl, is this a project that you are interested in and can commit to? You need to have a pretty good store of terrain and be willing to build the maps. Also, you should be willing and able to design quality maps with Virtual Scape and share them with the community.

If you are interested in participating on that level, welcome aboard.

[quozl]

Quozl, is this a project that you are interested in and can commit to? You need to have a pretty good store of terrain and be willing to build the maps. Also, you should be willing and able to design quality maps with Virtual Scape and share them with the community.

If you are interested in participating on that level, welcome aboard.

Definitely interested. I have 2 of every terrain set except for TT, Marvel, and BftU.

[Griffin]

Quozl is added to the group.

[mrcrimson]

I vote yeah to all. As far as the limits, I'm all about no limits. Super heroes deserve super maps :)

[Griffin]

I went ahead and updated the Rules for Map Designs post, but right now we should do one thing at a time. I need a vote for this post.

Here is the proposal for our Goals. If your name is in the first post, you can vote yea or nay on this proposal.



C3G Map Goals

To have a collection of archetypal maps that are designed for fun and casual game play with Super Heroes, and each map should have a Super Hero theme.
For each map to have a specific theme with a general name. Example: the Bat-Cave could be called: Dark Cavern Lair
To have each Map be a collaborative effort from our C3G Map members while encouraging support, ideas, and effort from the entire Heroscapers.com community.
Maintain the position of at least 4 and no more than 8 core members who are enthusiastic, well respected, and active Heroscapers.com members


So far we have two yeas. I have voted and so has MrCrimson. We need two more yeas to finalize it with a majority vote.

[A3n]

Hey guys, this is something I am interested in but lack the time & commitment to be here full-time, so I will be lurking, if that's Ok.

I don't know how your processes for moving maps through the works, but I would love an opportunity to submit some maps from time-to-time for discussion & critique, if you can build any means to allow for this into your process it would be great.8)

If you need somebody to put the maps in a pdf format similar to the official rules book I can do that for you, if you haven't already tee'd it up with GO. You can see samples of what I can do in this respect by visiting one of the map links in my signature.

Cheers

[Cavalier]

C3G Map Goals


To have a collection of archetypal maps that are designed for fun and casual game play with Super Heroes, and each map should have a Super Hero theme.
For each map to have a specific theme with a general name. Example: the Bat-Cave could be called: Dark Cavern Lair
To have each Map be a collaborative effort from our C3G Map members while encouraging support, ideas, and effort from the entire Heroscapers.com community.
Maintain the position of at least 4 and no more than 8 core members who are enthusiastic, well respected, and active Heroscapers.com members




I vote YEA on the goals proposals

[Griffin]

Hey guys, this is something I am interested in but lack the time & commitment to be here full-time, so I will be lurking, if that's Ok.

I don't know how your processes for moving maps through the works, but I would love an opportunity to submit some maps from time-to-time for discussion & critique, if you can build any means to allow for this into your process it would be great.8)

If you need somebody to put the maps in a pdf format similar to the official rules book I can do that for you, if you haven't already tee'd it up with GO. You can see samples of what I can do in this respect by visiting one of the map links in my signature.

CheersA3N, we would be honored to have you around. Thank you so very much for offering your art skills to this group. I know you have a hard time keeping up with C3G Mainframe at times, but I think the pace of this project will be much different. If you think that you could build a map once a week or every other week and comment on it, I think you could help out here more than you realize. Let me know if you want to get more involved, but you are more than welcome to drop in anytime you like with suggestions, ideas, critiques, etc. :D

[Griffin]

That is three votes. We are one away.

[quozl]

I also vote YEA.

[Griffin]

The proposal passes and the floor is open.


Here is the next proposal. We already have two votes, we need two more.

Here is the proposal. If your name is in the first post, you can vote yea or nay on this proposal.



C3G Map Maker's Voting and Rules

1) For any decision to be finalized, a Proposition must be submitted In the C3G Map thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023061#post1023061) in this manner so it is not confused with simple chatter or normal discussion: I Propose (what it is you are Proposing).
Only C3G Map Makers are allowed to make a formal proposition or vote.

2) A Proposition will only be finalized with a Majority vote. A vote consists of a C3G Map Maker posting yes or no in the C3G Map Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023061#post1023061). All active C3G Map Makers will have their name in the form of a link to their Heroscapers.com profile page on the first page of this updated C3G Map Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023061#post1023061). Once a Proposition has passed it can only be overturned with a unanimous vote by all C3G Map Makers.

3) If there is a split decision on a Proposition, then any C3G Sidekick or Hero from the C3G Mainframe may respond to the split decision by voting. The first C3G Mainframe member to respond will have the deciding vote.

4) For a C3G Map Maker to design a custom for this project, they must simply follow the guide lines laid down in this post (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1023066&postcount=4). This process should be fun and structured, if at any time there is a rule that is hindering the process, the group may simply bypass the rule for the sake of progress only.

[A3n]

A3N, we would be honored to have you around. Thank you so very much for offering your art skills to this group. I know you have a hard time keeping up with C3G Mainframe at times, but I think the pace of this project will be much different. If you think that you could build a map once a week or every other week and comment on it, I think you could help out here more than you realize. Let me know if you want to get more involved, but you are more than welcome to drop in anytime you like with suggestions, ideas, critiques, etc. :D

Well I could see myself doing maybe one map a month. I would be fine not have a limit on the amount of sets used however all my maps would be based only on the sets I have available to me (having said that I have designed a map purely in VS for a competition and made it to the second round - which I thought was pretty good :D). Currently I only have RotV, MtCB, FotA, & BftU.

But I certainly would be honoured to assist anyway I can.

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

Edit: Yea!
I agree with the proposal. I would like to add that I will endeavor to make use of no more than two RotV and/or SotM sets if possible, so as to make the maps fit on a table reasonably. To that 2 master set average I will generally add one or two Marvel sets (thought not always), and 1-3 "other" such as forest, jungle or lava. I have already used the rock outcrops only in my desert base build, still a work in progress.

As for voting, no poll is needed; we simply weigh in until either no more suggestions are made, or we require an informal vote to get a majority on some point.

[quozl]

I vote yes.

[Griffin]

A3N, we would be honored to have you around. Thank you so very much for offering your art skills to this group. I know you have a hard time keeping up with C3G Mainframe at times, but I think the pace of this project will be much different. If you think that you could build a map once a week or every other week and comment on it, I think you could help out here more than you realize. Let me know if you want to get more involved, but you are more than welcome to drop in anytime you like with suggestions, ideas, critiques, etc. :D

Well I could see myself doing maybe one map a month. I would be fine not have a limit on the amount of sets used however all my maps would be based only on the sets I have available to me (having said that I have designed a map purely in VS for a competition and made it to the second round - which I thought was pretty good :D). Currently I only have RotV, MtCB, FotA, & BftU.

But I certainly would be honoured to assist anyway I can.

CheersSounds like based on your terrain count and your time available, you might be better suited helping out when you can as opposed to being a full member. But your art work and PDF help will be a huge benefit. :D

[Cavalier]

C3G Map Maker's Voting and Rules

1) For any decision to be finalized, a Proposition must be submitted In the C3G Map thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023061#post1023061) in this manner so it is not confused with simple chatter or normal discussion: I Propose (what it is you are Proposing).
Only C3G Map Makers are allowed to make a formal proposition or vote.

2) A Proposition will only be finalized with a Majority vote. A vote consists of a C3G Map Maker posting yes or no in the C3G Map Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023061#post1023061). All active C3G Map Makers will have their name in the form of a link to their Heroscapers.com profile page on the first page of this updated C3G Map Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023061#post1023061). Once a Proposition has passed it can only be overturned with a unanimous vote by all C3G Map Makers.

3) If there is a split decision on a Proposition, then any C3G Sidekick or Hero from the C3G Mainframe may respond to the split decision by voting. The first C3G Mainframe member to respond will have the deciding vote.

4) For a C3G Map Maker to design a custom for this project, they must simply follow the guide lines laid down in this post (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1023066&postcount=4). This process should be fun and structured, if at any time there is a rule that is hindering the process, the group may simply bypass the rule for the sake of progress only.
Yea

[Griffin]

The Proposal passes and the floor is open.

Would anyone else like to exercise their right to propose the next article on the list? :D

[quozl]

I just want to see a map!

[Griffin]

I just want to see a map!
Wow that is profound! :lol:

[quozl]

OK, I propose

Rules for Map Designs

1.Each map must have a theme that is Super Hero based.
2.Each map must have PDF and/or a VirtualScape file so the build instruction can be shared.
3.Each map must have a generic name that is not tied to any one set location that is specific to a comic universe.
4.Each map may use any amount of terrain from any terrain set or master set, but the map must have a list of how many sets are required to build it.

[Cavalier]

OK, I propose

Rules for Map Designs

1.Each map must have a theme that is Super Hero based.
2.Each map must have PDF and/or a VirtualScape file so the build instruction can be shared.
3.Each map must have a generic name that is not tied to any one set location that is specific to a comic universe.
4.Each map may use any amount of terrain from any terrain set or master set, but the map must have a list of how many sets are required to build it.
Yea

[Griffin]

Yea. The vote passes.

Cav :ninja:

[quozl]

I would like to see an X-men themed map first.

(So it could be used with the upcoming C3G X-Men figures.)

[Griffin]

Now that we have a government, we need some maps. Any member can feel free to post any map concept or instructions at any time. Each member should only have one map up for discussion at a time.

[Cavalier]

With the preliminaries out of the way,

I propose that we, as a group, decide on the theme for our first map.

[Hahma]

I would like to see an X-men themed map first.

(So it could be used with the upcoming C3G X-Men figures.)


Hmmmmm. I'm sure someone's got one or two laying around somewhere. :D

[Cavalier]

I would like to see an X-men themed map first.

(So it could be used with the upcoming C3G X-Men figures.)
Anything more specific, Quozl? Danger Room, Mansion?

[quozl]

I would like to see an X-men themed map first.

(So it could be used with the upcoming C3G X-Men figures.)
Anything more specific, Quozl? Danger Room, Mansion?

Any, really, although I'd personaly like to see something the Sentinels could fit on well.

[Cavalier]

I would like to see an X-men themed map first.

(So it could be used with the upcoming C3G X-Men figures.)
Anything more specific, Quozl? Danger Room, Mansion?

Any, really, although I'd personaly like to see something the Setinels could fit on well.
Which version of the Sentinels did C3G end up going with? Large or Small?

[Griffin]

Here is my Xavier Mansion Map that I created especially for the X-Men campaign, before the master set was canceled. I could change the name to "Mansion X Grounds (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2019)".

[quozl]

Which version of the Sentinels did C3G end up going with? Large or Small?

The large Heroclix version, although the Iron Man action figure is an accepted proxy.

[Griffin]

We went with the large Sentinels (double spaced).

[Griffin]

I gotta go have dinner with the in-laws, but I am sure that you guys can vote and keep things running without me for the night. Good luck!

[quozl]

Here is my Xavier Mansion Map that I created especially for the X-Men campaign, before the master set was canceled. I could change the name to "Mansion X Grounds (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2019)".

A great looking map but it brings up a question. Are we looking at maps for two armies of equal value? What are we looking at for starting spaces? Are special rules allowed on maps?

For me, I say no, whatever the mapmaker says, yes.

However, there may be differing opinions.

[Cavalier]

Here is my Xavier Mansion Map that I created especially for the X-Men campaign, before the master set was canceled. I could change the name to "Mansion X Grounds (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2019)".

A great looking map but it brings up a question. Are we looking at maps for two armies of equal value? What are we looking at for starting spaces? Are special rules allowed on maps?

For me, I say no, whatever the mapmaker says, yes.

However, there may be differing opinions.
I think each map should be unique unto itself. Some design for normal 2 player, others for 3 players*, etc.

*A great thought would be US Army vs Hulk vs Badguy :ponder:

[IAmBatman]

Like Hulk vs Wendigo with SHIELD and the US Army watching? (to suggest a "bad guy" to fill that role).
Also, Batman versus Joker versus the police (who have been ordered to take Batman in) would be a great one ...

[quozl]

So I think each map needs to have its "rules" defined.

Does anyone want to word that into a formal proposal?

[IAmBatman]

Each map should have start zones, numbers of players, set requirements, and any special rules defined?

[quozl]

Each map should have start zones, numbers of players, set requirements, and any special rules defined?

That should work.

I propose adding to the Rules for Map Design:

5. Each map should have its start zones, number of players and any special rules defined.

[Cavalier]

So I think each map needs to have its "rules" defined.

Does anyone want to word that into a formal proposal?

Each map should have start zones, numbers of players, set requirements, and any special rules defined?

That should work.

I propose adding to the Rules for Map Design:

5. Each map should have its start zones, number of players and any special rules defined.
Yea

[Griffin]

I had few moments over here at the IN-laws and I can't resist the escape that this site offers. :)

I vote yea, but I would like to remind us that we are not a scenario guild, we are map makers. That is not to say that we can't create some scenarios or maps with special rules, but that should not be our major task. Remember, Scenarios, campaigns, glyphs, optional rules, etc, must be proposed, playtested, and voted on in the C3G Mainframe, where as maps and maps alone have been fully entrusted to us. I think that as our first task in this project should be a map with the start zones as was proposed by quozl. Lets ease into the scenario stuff as we build a stronger relationship with the C3G Mainframe, and as they begin to trust us more.

[quozl]

I agree with Griffin. Special rules should be few, at least until we get much more experience at this. And we need one more yes vote...

BTW, Griffin, would you like to define the rules for your map? I'm assuming two unequal forces given the start zones indicated.

[Griffin]

I agree with Griffin. Special rules should be few, at least until we get much more experience at this.
Exactly. I still think we can ease into it, but at this point we are technically still one vote away from the Mainframe adopting this group. I am confident that we will have that vote by tonight at some point, but our relationship is still very young.

[mad_wookiee]

Wow, four pages of discussion already! I agree w/ Griffin that we should be cautious with special rules as we want to concentrate on the map. But I think there's room for certain map-specific rules such as a statue that can be thrown for example. I think the litmus test is whether or not it would make sense regardless of the figures that are being played on the map. If it would only make sense in the context of a specific location or with specific figures then I think it should be avoided.

Having said that, I vote YEA to the proposed rule.

[quozl]

How about we start with a simple map?

Old Street Overpass (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=1075) by EternalThanos86

Or are we only supposed to be testing maps by members?

[Taeblewalker]

Each map should have start zones, numbers of players, set requirements, and any special rules defined?

That should work.

I propose adding to the Rules for Map Design:

5. Each map should have its start zones, number of players and any special rules defined.

I agree, though if desired, one may use two versions of the start zones. In other words, same exact map, but a two-player start zone and a three-player start zone might be suggested, if appropriate.

Edit:

How about we start with a simple map?

Old Street Overpass (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=1075) by EternalThanos86

Or are we only supposed to be testing maps by members?

I believe we are creating and commenting on our own designs.

[Cavalier]

How many active maps do we want to have at a time? How about Proposed maps (or other proposals for that matter)?

[Taeblewalker]

I believe Griffin suggested one active map per member. Other proposals should be limited; unless one has an addendum or ammendment to a proposal on the table, further proposals should wait.

[EternalThanos86]

I would love to be involved at some time in the near future (as in mid-April), so if there is any way to put me on retainer for now, I would sincerely appreciate. I love what you are doing with the remnants of the BoM!

[quozl]

I would love to be involved at some time in the near future (as in mid-April), so if there is any way to put me on retainer for now, I would sincerely appreciate. I love what you are doing with the remnants of the BoM!

For details on the Superhero Showdown, you'll have my vote!

[Griffin]

I have been saving a seat just for you ET. ;)

[Griffin]

I think we could do an Ala Cart version where each member could start a thread for their chosen or created map, and we could comment and vote on things inside of that thread. I can use this thread as an Index on the first page to keep track of each map that is finalized and being worked on. So anyone of us could at anytime just start ONE thread with their chosen map and get the ball rolling.

[quozl]

Does the map need to be of their own creation or can I take a map that looks interesting that someone else designed and play around with it?

[Griffin]

I think that if you want to consider yourself a map maker, you should probably make a map. ;) I know that you have some good ones for Valhalla already Q. But if you really want to put someone's map up here, I don't see a problem with it as long as you have their permission.

[Taeblewalker]

Does the map need to be of their own creation or can I take a map that looks interesting that someone else designed and play around with it?

I believe it requires permission of the owner, and should probably be from a member, like the one you picked from EternalThanos.

[quozl]

I think that if you want to consider yourself a map maker, you should probably make a map. ;) I know that you have some good ones for Valhalla already Q. But if you really want to put someone's map up here, I don't see a problem with it as long as you have their permission.

Now I feel shamed. :oops:

I'll see what I can come up with this weekend.

[Griffin]

I think that if you want to consider yourself a map maker, you should probably make a map. ;) I know that you have some good ones for Valhalla already Q. But if you really want to put someone's map up here, I don't see a problem with it as long as you have their permission.

Now I feel shamed. :oops:

I'll see what I can come up with this weekend.
Don't feel shamed, take it as a challenge and a complement, I mean you are member now so you already have my confidence that you will do a great job, and I think you are a great asset to the group with all of your enthusiasm that you bring. :D

[IAmBatman]

I missed a lot here, but just to be clear, when I said special rules, I wasn't thinking anything more complex than heavy snow or the electrified track rules for Under the El.

[quozl]

I missed a lot here, but just to be clear, when I said special rules, I wasn't thinking anything more complex than heavy snow or the electrified track rules for Under the El.

I think we're on the same page.

[Griffin]

We are on the same track, and it is electrifying!!!! :)

[mrcrimson]

I put a map together last night but haven't put it through VS yet, should I wait to do so before opening a thread? Or can I open one up and post pics I took? Thinking about calling it "assault on police headquarters. It involves one side breaking into police hq to rescue a prisoner locked in a cell on the second floor. The other team would have to defend the hq. You can go through the front door, back door, or drop down from the rooftop.

[quozl]

We want VS or PDF so we can build it too.

[Taeblewalker]

First Map: City Streets

I am just finishing a map with a bioterrorism plot to contaminate the environment. There is a time limit on the scenario, with the heroes trying to break into the warehouse and turn off the device before it can pump enough toxic gunk to reach the open manhole. The progression of toxic sludge is represented by swamp water tiles.

The map can also be played with generic scenarios. It uses 2 castles, 1 Marvel, 1 Forest, and 1 Swarm. I'll be starting a new thread for it shortly.

[IAmBatman]

Make sure whatever threads you start for this project, you link them back here! :-)

[Griffin]

If you start a Map thread give me a link so I can put it on the front page in here like Bats pointed out. Also, we are NOT doing scenarios in here, at least not yet. C3G has authorized us to do maps, and that is all for now. We will work out the details for scenarios later, but for now, we will only be doing maps.

[Taeblewalker]

City Streets (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023808#post1023808)

[mad_wookiee]

Do we want individual threads for each map, or would it be easier to use existing map threads if we have them?

I have some ideas for a lunar base map that I'll be working on over the next several days.

[Griffin]

Do we want individual threads for each map, or would it be easier to use existing map threads if we have them?

I have some ideas for a lunar base map that I'll be working on over the next several days.
I think it is best if we start individual threads for each map so we can discuss, vote, question, critique, and finalize that individual map without any interference. Don't worry about taking up too much room either, just start the thread in the C3G section, we sorta own that area now, so there is no fear in frustrating other members with our prolific thread collection. :D

[Taeblewalker]

Do we want individual threads for each map, or would it be easier to use existing map threads if we have them?

I have some ideas for a lunar base map that I'll be working on over the next several days.
I think it is best if we start individual threads for each map so we can discuss, vote, question, critique, and finalize that individual map without any interference. Don't worry about taking up too much room either, just start the thread in the C3G section, we sorta own that area now, so there is no fear in frustrating other members with our prolific thread collection. :D

Oh, what a tapestry of Might Marveldom we will weave, True Believers!

[mrcrimson]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1023999#post1023999
Assault on Police Headquarters.

[Griffin]

Front page updated with Police Headquarters, by Mrcrimson.

[Balantai]

On a side note, do we have our current maps (Star City Bank, Grundy's Grave, Wayne Manor, etc.) available as individual downloads? This is something I'd like to see if it's not yet completed.

[quozl]

On a side note, do we have our current maps (Star City Bank, Grundy's Grave, Wayne Manor, etc.) available as individual downloads? This is something I'd like to see if it's not yet completed.

Yes, the PDFs are linked to in each of the scenario threads.

[Griffin]

On a side note, do we have our current maps (Star City Bank, Grundy's Grave, Wayne Manor, etc.) available as individual downloads? This is something I'd like to see if it's not yet completed.
That is a good idea. This thread here really serves as an index for maps in progress and also a discussion board. All of the finished maps will be showcased in the C3G Books of Index thread. But over there, there is a section with our scenarios, soon there will be a section with our maps. However, I see your point that in that future "Map" section, we should have the stand alone maps from our scenarios as well. Good call. I will see if I can get A3N to put together the PDF files for those already finalized maps. Thanks.

[Griffin]

Here is my Dark Cave Lair (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1024462#post1024462) map.

[quozl]

I wonder if it might be helpful if we all laid out our map design philosophies.

Here's mine (in order of preference):

I like balanced maps. However, that doesn't necessarily mean symmetrical. I'd love to see maps where one side is in a castle (or modern building in Superscape) and the other side is on the low ground. However, it will need balancing either by glyphs or point totals or both.

I like maps with lots of decisions. Should I take the low ground or the high ground? Since height is so crucial in Heroscape, I need incentives for taking the low ground. Also, I like maps that encourage spreading out. It's boring to just meet in the middle and roll dice until we're done.

Lastly, I want maps that look cool.

[A3n]

On a side note, do we have our current maps (Star City Bank, Grundy's Grave, Wayne Manor, etc.) available as individual downloads? This is something I'd like to see if it's not yet completed.
That is a good idea. This thread here really serves as an index for maps in progress and also a discussion board. All of the finished maps will be showcased in the C3G Books of Index thread. But over there, there is a section with our scenarios, soon there will be a section with our maps. However, I see your point that in that future "Map" section, we should have the stand alone maps from our scenarios as well. Good call. I will see if I can get A3N to put together the PDF files for those already finalized maps. Thanks.

I don't believe I have to as I think GO took care of that.

Cheers

[A3n]

I know we aren't doing scenario's for the maps, I think that's cool, but I don't believe that should stop us coming up with a back story for the map. For example for my Kings Dive (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/Kings%20Dive.pdf) battlefield I have :

Kings Dive
“I’d much rather have a caravan in the hills, than a mansion in the slums” - Crowded House.
Once a mansion with the stature of a castle, Belasco House has never been a humble abode. In it’s glory days it was the pinnacle of high society. With the original owners deceased more than a century ago and no decendants returned to claim ownership the premises was left vacant. Situated in the once bustling Crown Point, the whole district has become derelict and a haven to villains. As pun on it’s former glory the area is now known as Kings Dive.

Then the scenario's would have separate names & a small back story to compliment the map & the specific scenario. This is how it is in the official maps, so I think it would be cool for us.

Cheers

[Griffin]

I think I already said something along those lines somewhere A3N. I love little Bio snippets for maps, it adds to theme and overall illusion of the map.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - I think the way official maps and scenarios (and the World's Finest C3G ones as well) are set up encourages this approach. There's a separate "bio" for each map that is unassociated with the individual scenario.
I'd also love a modular approach to the Batcave, since it really should be too massive for one map to adequately represent (unless it's a Dr. Wierdscaper map or something ...).

[Taeblewalker]

I also like the bios.

[mrcrimson]

I'm a fan of bios too. I wasn't sure if we were allowed to do them or I would have posted one on my maps first post. When I post my version 3 I'll do one.

[A3n]

Whenever you think your map is ready to put onto an official looking style pdf just email me the VS file & the bio & I'll do it up. I can work with a pdf but the VS file is preferable as I will have to alter a few things (like removing all but the top level ladder & adding a number to it...) & get a picture for the top. I will pm you all my email address shortly.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Based on my recent and strenuous efforts to build maps in my Virtual Scape Program from our PDFs, and also because of the ease in which we can edit and forward to A3N, I do hereby propose that all maps that we upload should be Virtual Scape files only.

PDFs are annoying when converting to VS files. Sharing VS files in our individual threads until they are finalized, will be much easier for the entire process. Once the map is finished, and A3N has done the PDF for us, we can upload the PDF file in place of the VS file to share with everyone. Thank you A3N.

If you cannot use VS for some reason, please let me know.

I vote yea.

[Griffin]

A3N is now added to the front page list. He may not be able to build maps but once a month, but I know first hand that having him around as an artist is invaluable. :D

[mrcrimson]

I vote yeah as well.

[A3n]

Well if my assumption is correct - that now I am on the front page I can vote, then I vote Yea.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Assume on A3N! You are a voter. :D

[Taeblewalker]

I vote yea as well. VS files from now on.

[Griffin]

The proposition passes and the floor is now open.

From hence forth we shall all use VS files only, until we have them converted into PDF files once the map is finalized and ready to share with the world.

[A3n]

I forgot to link to my new map thread. :duh:

Corner High-rise (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29193).

Cheers.

[Griffin]

Front page updated with A3n's map.

[quozl]

Designed this in VS this weekend but haven't gotten to physically build it yet:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1026535

[Velenne]

Underground Lair (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2103)

Special Rules:

Uses 1 BftU master set, 1 FotA Castle set, 1 VW lava set, and 1 marvel set

Special Rules:

Glyph of Brandar: Teleport - Figures moving onto a glyph of of Brandar do not have to end their move. When movng off of a glyph of Brandar, you may move onto any other glyph of Brandar in play. If a figure is already standing in that space, roll a d20. If you roll an 8 or lower, your figure is destroyed. If you roll a 9 or higher, the other figure is destroyed, and you may continue your movement.

Turbolift: If your entire move consists of Wall Walk or Road spaces, ignore elevations when moving. You may pass over figures without becoming engaged, and pass over obstacles such as ruins. If you are engaged at the start of your move, you will still take leave engagement attacks unless a special power on your army card states otherwise.
Pic:

http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//c3g%20underground%20lair._UXq.jpg

[Griffin]

Veleen, this looks like a fun scenario, but we are not working on scenarios here, only maps for the time being. You may want to save this concept for when you become a sidekick in the mainframe of C3G. You are likely to move into that seat soon, especially if you continue to playtest (hint, hint). :)

This map department's membership is currently full (eight members), but like I said, once you become a sidekick (and I would vote for you as long as you continue to be productive, which you have been), you can submit scenarios in Ala Cart.

I really hope I am not coming off as an elitist, I very much respect you and your awesome maps, it is just that this department is small and kinda has to stay that way due to the rules in place. Plus it is going to help us stay productive as long as we don't have too many maps to work on at once.

Go move up and become a sidekick, then you will have access to work on everything in Ala Cart. :)

[Velenne]

Ah, I see, so no special rules at all? Ok I'll leave it up in case anyone has an itch to try it and wait til later to properly get it a C3G stamp. :)

[Cavalier]

Ah, I see, so no special rules at all? Ok I'll leave it up in case anyone has an itch to try it and wait til later to properly get it a C3G stamp. :)
Actually, I think special rules are fine. There is a huge difference between special rules and scenarios.

Good work, V.

[quozl]

Ah, I see, so no special rules at all? Ok I'll leave it up in case anyone has an itch to try it and wait til later to properly get it a C3G stamp. :)
Actually, I think special rules are fine. There is a huge difference between special rules and scenarios.

Good work, V.

Agreed. To me, the difference is in the victory conditions. If they're different from just "kill 'em all" then it's a scenario.

[Griffin]

Ah, I see, so no special rules at all? Ok I'll leave it up in case anyone has an itch to try it and wait til later to properly get it a C3G stamp. :)
Actually, I think special rules are fine. There is a huge difference between special rules and scenarios.

Good work, V.
Cav is right. Special Rules are completely fine. And soon, I think that we will be working on scenarios as well, just no right now since there is so much going on in C3G.

[Griffin]

Veleen's suggestion seem reasonable I think.

[Griffin]

Cavalier's Abandoned Missile Base is now on the front page!

Cav, you didn't tell anyone you made that map. Granted you did just start that thread like 45 min. ago, but still... :p

[mrcrimson]

I probably just missed it, but how does the voting go down on a map to pass it to finish? Do we vote on them or does the mainframe vote?

[Griffin]

I probably just missed it, but how does the voting go down on a map to pass it to finish? Do we vote on them or does the mainframe vote?
If your name is on the first post of this thread you can submit, vote, or propose anything concerning maps in this department. However, before we can vote to finalize a map, one of us must build it and confirm that it is solid in structure, looks good, is playable, has the right terrain requirements, etc.

I am cleaning up my office space and toys (:oops:) tonight. After I am done with that, I plan on building some maps tomorrow.

[mad_wookiee]

Been a bit busy this weekend with house projects - finally got a chance to do some VS stuff tonight. My first submission: Island Sanctuary (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1028378#post1028378). Let me know your thoughts!

[Griffin]

Front page updated with Wookiee's map.

[quozl]

I was under the impression we were supposed to be making maps that are ready to play. Some of these maps will only work with unbalanced points or some kind of scenario. For these to be ready to play, I propose that the points ratio be specified.

[Griffin]

Nay. Make a cool map and leave the game choices up to the players.

[Taeblewalker]

I was under the impression we were supposed to be making maps that are ready to play. Some of these maps will only work with unbalanced points or some kind of scenario. For these to be ready to play, I propose that the points ratio be specified.

I vote nay, since I feel that almost any map can have scenario-defined start zones that make the map balanced. Start zones completely define point ratios, and we are not defining start zones anymore.

[quozl]

But I thought scenarios was another project.

[IAmBatman]

It is, but the point of this project isn't to make competitively balanced maps, is it? It's to make fun and playable maps that might be open for future scenario usage.
Maybe some maps such just come along with notes like "Not balanced for competitive play between armies of equal size"? Though, like others have said, without startzones indicated, it's hard to say anything like that definitively.

[quozl]

Right, I'm not asking for competitively balanced maps. I'm asking for maps that are ready to play. Right now, I'm seeing maps that look cool but are going to need some work before they can be played on.

[Griffin]

But I thought scenarios was another project.C3G Mainframe, and us eventually, will be turning some of these maps into scenarios.

[Griffin]

Right, I'm not asking for competitively balanced maps. I'm asking for maps that are ready to play. Right now, I'm seeing maps that look cool but are going to need some work before they can be played on.With the freedom that you have as a designer here, feel free to make that kinda map if you so choose. :D But we will not be setting control measures as to what kinda maps we all must make.

[quozl]

But we will not be setting control measures as to what kinda maps we all must make.

Then I'm not seeing the point of this group. Are we just supposed to be encouraging each other vaguely?

[IAmBatman]

You can still enforce the standards you mention with your comments and your vote in individual threads. It sounds to me like there's just a reluctance here to apply any overarching requirements since these things seem to be really situational on a map-to-map basis.

[quozl]

If everyone else wants something else out of this map project, I'd rather use my time for something else rather than be a lone vote.

I guess I just want to know what everyone else wants out of this.

[IAmBatman]

I think that's a good question to ask. I'm not sure how well the goals are currently defined here (looking in from the outside as I am).

[Griffin]

C3G Map Goals

To have a collection of archetypal maps that are designed for fun and casual game play with Super Heroes, and each map should have a Super Hero theme.
For each map to have a specific theme with a general name. Example: the Bat-Cave could be called: Dark Cavern Lair
To have each Map be a collaborative effort from our C3G Map members while encouraging support, ideas, and effort from the entire Heroscapers.com community.
Maintain the position of at least 4 and no more than 8 core members who are enthusiastic, well respected, and active Heroscapers.com members


I just want some great maps for Superheroes, and I want them to be C3G property so we can create scenarios, competitive games, and offer some maps to the playtesters that may be a bit more FUN to play on.

[quozl]

I want them to be C3G property.

What is that all about? If you want to use a map, use it. If you want to make a scenario based on a map, make it. C3G isn't a business. IP shouldn't be a consideration.

[IAmBatman]

I think what he means by "C3G Property" is that the maps would be considered a collaborative design with "C3G" listed as the author instead of an individual designer.

[quozl]

I think what he means by "C3G Property" is that the maps would be considered a collaborative design with "C3G" listed as the author instead of an individual designer.

Yeah, still sounds like IP. If I see a cool map made by someone that I want to turn into a scenario, I make it and give credit to the designer.

[Taeblewalker]

Perhaps we can ensure that each map has at least room to place equal start zones for equak footing, as the only real requirement for playability. I don't mean just equal size. I mean equal placement. Perhaps we can go back to defining those, with the understanding that they only exist to show how the map can be tournament worthy.

It all depends on how we define "playable." If the maps are not necessarily going to be used for equal armies, then there is no need for this, as play will be defined later by C3G and/or by the casual player.

I think Quozl wants to make maps that can be perfectly balanced at equal points without requiring that they necessarily be played that way. It shouldn't be too hard to make such start zones on almost any map without being too restrictive.

[IAmBatman]

I think what he means by "C3G Property" is that the maps would be considered a collaborative design with "C3G" listed as the author instead of an individual designer.

Yeah, still sounds like IP. If I see a cool map made by someone that I want to turn into a scenario, I make it and give credit to the designer.

There's no "ask for permission" phase there for you?
Also, I think the idea of collaboration is dispelling ownership. When people get too attached to being the "owner" or "author" of a certain map, it tends to bias them. The whole point of C3G style collaboration is to emphasize the "everyone is the author" school of thought.

[Griffin]

Quozl, if you have an expectancy for a certain type of map, than you need to feel free to create them, just like everyone else. If we follow all of your ideas for direction, this project will loose its diversity and suddenly become all about your concepts. That is something I am not interested in at all.

[quozl]

Quozl, if you have an expectancy for a certain type of map, than you need to feel free to create them, just like everyone else. If we follow all of your ideas for direction, this project will loose its diversity and suddenly become all about your concepts. That is something I am not interested in at all.

I just want to know what everyone else's expectancies are.

[Taeblewalker]

My expectations are to have fun maps that are superheroic! I can imagine nearly any such map allowing for equal and unequal armies and start zones.

The only real guidelines I like beyond the current rules are

1) allow heights to be accessible by Cap and Red Skull, either by ladder or height
2) if heights extend across large areas of a map, have multiple points of access
3) try to limit a build to fewer sets if possible

That's about it

[Cavalier]

My take is that we are building, as a community, a set of maps that are well suited for Super Hero games. In the end, the maps we create won't be Cav's or Griff's or TW's, etc. They will be the Group's*. Since the group has falling under C3G, then they are C3G's maps. What I haven't seen a lot of, yet, is true collaboration on designs, at least not to level we see in units.


*This is like the C3G Batman, etc. They are no loger one member's design, but the group as a whole. One person may have done the initial work, but the colaborative effort created the final piece.

[quozl]

So am I the only one who doesn't care about who "owns" the maps?

I like collaborative design but it needs a common goal to work.

[Cavalier]

So am I the only one who doesn't care about who "owns" the maps?

I like collaborative design but it needs a common goal to work.
The goal, for me, is Fun Super Hero Worthy Maps. Outside of that parameter, I don't really have any guidlines in mind. The maps should be playable, yes, but if we are not doing start zones, balance is kind of up to the end user.

I also like to play a lot of Heat of Battle Superhero games. This really takes map 'balance' out of the equation.

[A3n]

My expectations are that we are creating a bank of Maps for the C3G that can be used for playing superscape games. Whether that means a scenario can be added to it, or it is to be used as a tournament map or just a fun casual game. Come what may.

Maybe we can specify categories with different qualifying requirements for our maps. That way are ensuring some standards are applied to the maps & that people wanting to use the maps can go to one of those specific categories & choose the map for their purpose knowing that standards have been applied for it to fall into said category.

Categories like (just spit-balling here):
Tournament Maps - Designed & tested to be balanced for equal point armies.
Scenario Maps - Designed to be used in scenarios. Has a clear theme. Tested for build & only passed if the group agrees there is a usability factor to it.
Casual Theme Maps - Designed for casual play with balance in mind but an obvious or symmetrical balance isn't required. Eg: if you put heights on one side of the map there has to be strategic means to attack those heights - that sort of thing.

So if we submit a map we say what the category aim is & then as a group we decide if it qualifies for that category or help it fit that category or suggest that it goes to a different category.

IMPO it would be cool to have different categories to go grab a map from & know it has a standard that will fit into how I want to play at the moment.

Is that an idea anybody else can get on board with?

Cheers

[quozl]

The goal, for me, is Fun Super Hero Worthy Maps. Outside of that parameter, I don't really have any guidlines in mind. The maps should be playable, yes, but if we are not doing start zones, balance is kind of up to the end user.

I also like to play a lot of Heat of Battle Superhero games. This really takes map 'balance' out of the equation.

That's a fine goal, if we all know what it means. However, we don't test for fun. Currently, we just look at maps and vote, no playing on them needed. How are we evaluating if the maps are fun and superhero worthy?

P.S. Griffin is the only one saying no start zones. That has not been voted on.

EDIT: I like A3N's categories. They sound like defined goals to me.

[IAmBatman]

As an outside observer, I like those ideas very much, A3n, and I think they'll help provide a bit more direction for this project as well as clarify what type of feedback is appropriate where.
For the tourney maps, of course, you'd probably want to get the startzones back into it, but I'm not sure how many of those this group would really shoot for, since there's a desire out there not to be a watered down version of BoV.

[Griffin]

A3N's idea is a great way to accomplish what I think we set out to do: create a diversity of different types of maps in a collaborative effort. +rep at ya.

As far as start zones go quozl, you seem to be the only one asking for them... ;)

However, if one of us wants to build a tournament worthy map (which without the playtesting reqs that BoV has, it will just be a lesser BoVish map), I think startzones are a must. The same can be said for scenarios as well.

[Taeblewalker]

I propose that we adopt A3n's categories.

[quozl]

I propose that we adopt A3n's categories.

I think we should merge the scenario and casual categories into one.

[IAmBatman]

I think they're distinct, though ... there's a map that's meant to be balanced for casual play (not tournament strict, but not clearly unbalanced either) and then there's a map that's almost flaunting its imbalance because it will be balanced by a specific scenario.

[Griffin]

I propose that we adopt A3n's categories.
Yea.

[Cavalier]

I propose that we adopt A3n's categories.
Yea

[Griffin]

I think they're distinct, though ... there's a map that's meant to be balanced for casual play (not tournament strict, but not clearly unbalanced either) and then there's a map that's almost flaunting its imbalance because it will be balanced by a specific scenario.Agreed. They are two separate things. Scenarios have lots of control over the game and all of its components, where a casual game has little to none.

[quozl]

I think they're distinct, though ... there's a map that's meant to be balanced for casual play (not tournament strict, but not clearly unbalanced either) and then there's a map that's almost flaunting its imbalance because it will be balanced by a specific scenario.

I guess I don't know the difference. I see either balanced or unbalanced.

Do you have some examples so I can understand this better?

[IAmBatman]

Sure ... tourney-type maps tend to be symmetrical or if asymmetrical not very asymmetrical, they would have defined startzones that are of a size fitting a typical tournament (probably 24 spaces), with enough distance between them to prevent first Order Marker startzone dive bombing, they would likely require less terrain than any of the other maps to make them more tournament friendly, and then would be of a size that you could play a game on them in an hour or less.

A casual skirmish map, on the other hand, wouldn't have any obvious unbalances, but wouldn't have the same size or hour-length playability issues, wouldn't necessarily be built for only two players, wouldn't necessarily have defined startzones of a certain size, etc.

A scenario-based map might be completely unbalanced for tourney or casual play, but a perfect representation of a theme, really cool looking, and something great for a future scenario that would balance it with special rules.

Does that make sense?

[quozl]

Yep, thanks!

I vote yea if we accept IAmBatman's definitions of A3n's categories.

[IAmBatman]

Glad I could help. :-D
I really do like the idea of having these categories to help define what type of feedback to give for each map. Right now I feel it a bit difficult to do more than go into a thread and say "ooooh, cool map." Part of that is due to limited map making experience, but clearer guidelines for individual map "types" could still help me find more appropriate comments, I think.

[A3n]

Sure ... tourney-type maps tend to be symmetrical or if asymmetrical not very asymmetrical, they would have defined startzones that are of a size fitting a typical tournament (probably 24 spaces), with enough distance between them to prevent first Order Marker startzone dive bombing, they would likely require less terrain than any of the other maps to make them more tournament friendly, and then would be of a size that you could play a game on them in an hour or less.

A casual skirmish map, on the other hand, wouldn't have any obvious unbalances, but wouldn't have the same size or hour-length playability issues, wouldn't necessarily be built for only two players, wouldn't necessarily have defined startzones of a certain size, etc.

A scenario-based map might be completely unbalanced for tourney or casual play, but a perfect representation of a theme, really cool looking, and something great for a future scenario that would balance it with special rules.

Does that make sense?
That's exactly it in a nut-shell. Sorry I couldn't put it across this way to begin with, but I am glad some people knew what I was saying & Bats could interpret it better.

So my vote is a definite YEA.

Glad I could help. :-D
I really do like the idea of having these categories to help define what type of feedback to give for each map. Right now I feel it a bit difficult to do more than go into a thread and say "ooooh, cool map." Part of that is due to limited map making experience, but clearer guidelines for individual map "types" could still help me find more appropriate comments, I think.

I agree it would put more objective & directions to the comments & critiques.

Cheers

[quozl]

Looks like it passes! Thanks A3n!

[Griffin]

The proposal passes and the floor is now open.

Second POST (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1023059&postcount=2)on the front page is now updated. :thumbsup:

[mad_wookiee]

Lots of discussion since lunch - curses on that infernal firewall at work. Going back to the original question from quozl - what we expect of this project - I think the first statement under the goals says it perfectly:
To have a collection of archetypal maps that are designed for fun and casual game play with Super Heroes, and each map should have a Super Hero theme.
Maybe this is more a reflection of my design philosophy for maps, but I disagree that maps for casual play have any requirement to be "balanced". Balanced for what? Two armies of equal point values? Why am I limited as a casual player to that perspective on army design? What if I choose an army that has no comic heroes? Should a map be equally accessible to an army composed entirely of double based walking figures as it is to one of single based fliers? What about melee vs range?

All of these are important for tournament style maps. I've designed a number of maps that are intended for competition in a tournament-like environment, where the map shouldn't drive army composition. I don't feel as though those concerns are important here. This project to me is more about creating maps that are evocative of a certain location or situation. It's far more about the feel and theme than about balance in the competitive sense. If I want to create a map that is representative of a fortress where a defending army can hold out against superior numbers, should that be a legitimate suggestion for this project? I'd suggest absolutely! Put in an in-universe way, if you're going to assault Asteroid M, you'd better bring the big guns.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree with this statement:I'm not asking for competitively balanced maps. I'm asking for maps that are ready to play. Right now, I'm seeing maps that look cool but are going to need some work before they can be played on.
What work do you feel still needs to be done in order to play on these maps? In particular, the one map that has been finalized is the Dark Cavern Lair. Do you feel that it is ready to play? If not, what does it lack? If there are things the other maps need, are you providing that feedback? I'm just having difficulty understanding what you are objecting to.

[quozl]

I'm just having difficulty understanding what you are objecting to.

A lack of direction. I think we've established that now though.

[Griffin]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mad_wookiee again. :reapershrug:

[A3n]

Ok I have a question, What style of pdf do we want for our maps?

The Booklet style (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/Dark%20Cave%20Lair%20-%20Booklet.pdf) - like the maps in the official rules book. Or,
The Leaflet style (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/Dark%20Cave%20Lair%20-%20Leaflet.pdf) - like the online exclusive maps that are official but put out after the rules book.

The links above contain Dark Cave Lair map in both formats so you can make an informed decision.

Cheers

[mad_wookiee]

I like the leaflet, personally.

[Griffin]

I really prefer the Booklet, that is what BoV and BoM have used, so it is what I am used to.

It looks great A3N. Could I perhaps try to find a better fitting background picture? One that is less wintery perhaps?

[quozl]

They both look great to me!

[quozl]

Maybe this is more a reflection of my design philosophy for maps, but I disagree that maps for casual play have any requirement to be "balanced". Balanced for what? Two armies of equal point values? Why am I limited as a casual player to that perspective on army design? What if I choose an army that has no comic heroes? Should a map be equally accessible to an army composed entirely of double based walking figures as it is to one of single based fliers? What about melee vs range?

All of these are important for tournament style maps. I've designed a number of maps that are intended for competition in a tournament-like environment, where the map shouldn't drive army composition. I don't feel as though those concerns are important here. This project to me is more about creating maps that are evocative of a certain location or situation. It's far more about the feel and theme than about balance in the competitive sense. If I want to create a map that is representative of a fortress where a defending army can hold out against superior numbers, should that be a legitimate suggestion for this project? I'd suggest absolutely! Put in an in-universe way, if you're going to assault Asteroid M, you'd better bring the big guns.

I thought I'd address this since you put so much effort into it.

When I say balanced, I mean two people can play and have fun. If I download a map with no balancing directions, I'm going to assume equal size armies is what I'll need to have fun. If I download a map that says one side takes 1000 points and one side takes 500 points and starts in a castle, I assume that's what I'll need to do to have fun.

However, if I download that castle map and it has no balancing directions and I play two equal sized armies, I won't be having fun because it isn't balanced.

I'm not talking about tournament-style maps. I'm talking about maps that are ready to have fun on. Some maps won't need any balancing directions and some will. I'm just suggesting we put in the balancing directions for those maps that need them.

[Griffin]

They both look great to me!I agree, they both look good.

A3N, I am fine with going with whichever one you decide on. You are the artist. :)

[Griffin]

I'm just suggesting we put in the balancing directions for those maps that need them.I can agree to that. We are free to give our maps what they need when they need em.. pretty standard suggestion really. :up:

[A3n]

I really prefer the Booklet, that is what BoV and BoM have used, so it is what I am used to.

It looks great A3N. Could I perhaps try to find a better fitting background picture? One that is less wintery perhaps?

I can certainly put an alternate background in, the one used is the closest to the original Marvel rule book that why I used it.

My personal preference is for the leaflet style for 2 reasons; it fills the page nicely without the cluttered look & all official new maps that come out separate to rule books are in this style. Having said that I will go with the majority. Should we vote?

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

I propose to use the booklet format. It just appeals to me more.

[mad_wookiee]

I thought I'd address this since you put so much effort into it.

When I say balanced, I mean two people can play and have fun. If I download a map with no balancing directions, I'm going to assume equal size armies is what I'll need to have fun. If I download a map that says one side takes 1000 points and one side takes 500 points and starts in a castle, I assume that's what I'll need to do to have fun.

However, if I download that castle map and it has no balancing directions and I play two equal sized armies, I won't be having fun because it isn't balanced.

I'm not talking about tournament-style maps. I'm talking about maps that are ready to have fun on. Some maps won't need any balancing directions and some will. I'm just suggesting we put in the balancing directions for those maps that need them.
That sort of brings us back around to the start zones question again though. I can't even begin to provide balancing directions without providing start zones.

[IAmBatman]

I like the Leaflet style better, but no vote from me. :-P

[quozl]

That sort of brings us back around to the start zones question again though. I can't even begin to provide balancing directions without providing start zones.

Yeah, I really think we need start zones.

[mrcrimson]

I propose to use the booklet format. It just appeals to me more.

I vote yeah to booklet, but both look fantastic.

[mrcrimson]

I view the map making division like volleyball. I may be the dude serving the ball (map), but once I serve it up the ball no longer belongs to me, everyone has an equal chance at hitting it next as long as its up in the air. As far as start zones, I don't have anywhere near the scape experience as anyone in the c3g, but I would prefer to either leave start zones completely off, or leave them up to the server. Like say if he/she puts them on in their 1st version of the map, we run with them, otherwise we don't bring them up. I will probably not be putting start zones in my maps unless we for some reason make it mandatory (which wouldn't make sense to me since this is kind of an all bets are off type collaboration). I like the category idea. After building my first map which is obviously not balanced for tournament play, and starting my second, my goal is superhero fun/eyecandy.

[Taeblewalker]

That sort of brings us back around to the start zones question again though. I can't even begin to provide balancing directions without providing start zones.

Yeah, I really think we need start zones.

I thought this was covered with our 3 new categories. Tournament maps should probably get them. Make them semi-symmetrical. The others not. Scenario maps can get them if you want to suggest the scenario type to go with them - knock yourself out. But Casual maps don't need them.

[A3n]

That sort of brings us back around to the start zones question again though. I can't even begin to provide balancing directions without providing start zones.

Yeah, I really think we need start zones.

I thought this was covered with our 3 new categories. Tournament maps should probably get them. Make them semi-symmetrical. The others not. Scenario maps can get them if you want to suggest the scenario type to go with them - knock yourself out. But Casual maps don't need them.
I think the only ones we should include start zones for is Tournament maps. For the Scenario built maps they should be left up to the scenario writer, & for the Casual play maps they should be left up to the players.

& for the booklet vote, I vote NAY. (My vote is for the leaflet :D)

Cheers

[mad_wookiee]

That sort of brings us back around to the start zones question again though. I can't even begin to provide balancing directions without providing start zones.

Yeah, I really think we need start zones.

I thought this was covered with our 3 new categories. Tournament maps should probably get them. Make them semi-symmetrical. The others not. Scenario maps can get them if you want to suggest the scenario type to go with them - knock yourself out. But Casual maps don't need them.
Agreed. My preference is that casual maps should be left to the players to determine how to approach questions of balance, including start zones. Scenario maps will be handled through the scenario rules. Tournament maps are a different animal.

[Griffin]

That sort of brings us back around to the start zones question again though. I can't even begin to provide balancing directions without providing start zones.

Yeah, I really think we need start zones.

I thought this was covered with our 3 new categories. Tournament maps should probably get them. Make them semi-symmetrical. The others not. Scenario maps can get them if you want to suggest the scenario type to go with them - knock yourself out. But Casual maps don't need them.
Agreed. My preference is that casual maps should be left to the players to determine how to approach questions of balance, including start zones. Scenario maps will be handled through the scenario rules. Tournament maps are a different animal.I think we are all getting on the same page here thanks to A3N's clarification of categories. Tournament/Competitive maps must have start-zones, while Casual maps do not. Now as far as Scenario maps go, we are not really working on them yet, so I can see how it may be difficult to determine a map you may be working on whether it is a casual map or scenario map.

Here is the thing. There is no real way of us working on scenario maps right now without the responsibility of being able to create the scenario. Essentially, any map we create that we hope to become a scenario, is really just a casual map until someone creates a scenario for it. I have a plan to get us working on scenarios soon, and I am pretty sure that I have enough support to make it happen. I need to go ahead and ask you guys if this proposal that I plan to make in the C3G mainframe would be acceptable to you though.


This is not a proposal, this is only a draft of a future proposal that we need to agree to first.
I propose that the C3G Map Makers department would be allowed to put one Scenario in Ala Cart. This means that we would have one voice, one scenario, and one submission in Ala Cart that we have already internally designed and playtested at least once. Then once the scenario is in Ala Cart, it is subjected to all of the rules and requirements that any Scenario submission would have.

Also, I vote nay for the booklet, based on the majority seeming to prefer leaflet.

I think that is enough nays to close that proposal. I now Propose that we use the leaflet design for our PDFs.

Yea.

[A3n]

This is not a proposal, this is only a draft of a future proposal that we need to agree to first.
I propose that the C3G Map Makers department would be allowed to put one Scenario in Ala Cart. This means that we would have one voice, one scenario, and one submission in Ala Cart that we have already internally designed and playtested at least once. Then once the scenario is in Ala Cart, it is subjected to all of the rules and requirements that any Scenario submission would have.

I would agree to that. The concept is sound - we work as one to move one scenario at a time through the ala cart, & it would be as the C3G Map Group so not to disqualify us individually from pursuing our own C3G custom. 8)

I now Propose that we use the leaflet design for our PDFs.

Yea.

[mad_wookiee]

YEA to leaflet.

[Taeblewalker]

I also like the a la cart scenario submission idea.

And I will expedite the leaflet that most folks prefer by voting yea.

[Griffin]

One vote away from the leaflet passing.

[mrcrimson]

Yeah to the leaflet.

[IAmBatman]

I'm in favor of the one scenario at a time from this department in ala cart as well, and it's something I'm likely going to be interested in involving myself with more directly at that point.
I love me some scenarios. :-D

[IAmBatman]

Oh, while I'm posting here - slightly off topic, but I want to throw out a challenge. I've currently go two of Cavalier's Lexan mats: a City Streets and a Water one. I know Griff has one of each as well, because I just traded them to him. :-p
I'd love to see some maps that use these mats.

[mad_wookiee]

This is not a proposal, this is only a draft of a future proposal that we need to agree to first.
I propose that the C3G Map Makers department would be allowed to put one Scenario in Ala Cart. This means that we would have one voice, one scenario, and one submission in Ala Cart that we have already internally designed and playtested at least once. Then once the scenario is in Ala Cart, it is subjected to all of the rules and requirements that any Scenario submission would have.
I'm fine with that approach.

[quozl]

Yea to the scenario proposal.

[Cavalier]

Oh, while I'm posting here - slightly off topic, but I want to throw out a challenge. I've currently go two of Cavalier's Lexan mats: a City Streets and a Water one. I know Griff has one of each as well, because I just traded them to him. :-p
I'd love to see some maps that use these mats.
I can do that ;)

I PROPOSE that we allow the inclusion of maps designed with the Lexan City Street mats.

(only downside is no official way to display them in VS. I have done work arounds but it isn't the best.)

[IAmBatman]

I'd yea that if I could. :-P Btw, don't worry, I'm getting some nice swag in that deal with Griff.

[Griffin]

Oh, while I'm posting here - slightly off topic, but I want to throw out a challenge. I've currently go two of Cavalier's Lexan mats: a City Streets and a Water one. I know Griff has one of each as well, because I just traded them to him. :-p
I'd love to see some maps that use these mats.
I can do that ;)

I PROPOSE that we allow the inclusion of maps designed with the Lexan City Street mats.

(only downside is no official way to display them in VS. I have done work arounds but it isn't the best.)
Yea. I have been working on one already actually. I am sure with A3N's help we can accomplish something with Lexan mats.

[A3n]

I PROPOSE that we allow the inclusion of maps designed with the Lexan City Street mats.

(only downside is no official way to display them in VS. I have done work arounds but it isn't the best.)

I vote YEA - I was already thinking about this myself. Great minds think alike (or fools nether differ :shrug:).

Let me know your work around. (I have a thought about it, but obviously haven't tried it yet).

Cheers

[Cavalier]

I PROPOSE that we allow the inclusion of maps designed with the Lexan City Street mats.

(only downside is no official way to display them in VS. I have done work arounds but it isn't the best.)

I vote YEA - I was already thinking about this myself. Great minds think alike (or fools nether differ :shrug:).

Let me know your work around. (I have a thought about it, but obviously haven't tried it yet).

Cheers
My work around is to create a bunch of personal tiles in VS using the Concrete and Asphalt bmp images and then "build" the Lexan mat in the software.

[mad_wookiee]

YEA to Lexan Mats.

[Taeblewalker]

Yea to Lexan Maps.

Also:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/9/4/c3g_city_original.jpg

C3G City! (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2114)

[IAmBatman]

The road hath been joined!

[A3n]

What no pub?

How does one get into town? or out for that matter?

[IAmBatman]

Apparently it's a closed, gated community ...

[mrcrimson]

Just finished my graveyard map. Its a very compact map that I think will work well in the city. How long after a map gets put approved before we can throw up the next map?

[A3n]

I think you are right to go as soon as your previous thread has been changed to a "book of".

So go boy, go.

[A3n]

Ok I would like somebody to try something with me. I have done up a LexanMap in VS thanx to Cav's help & I have put all the files required in this rar (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/LexanMap.rar)file.

What you need to do:

Extract file into your VS directory - the files should all go to their correct folders.
In the VS directory you will have a new text file, open this file & copy the contents. Open the Virtualscape.ini file, find the section [TilePerso] & replace all text under this heading with that which you copied.
Open VS, you should now have new tiles in the Personal tab. Open LexanCityBlock.hsc from your Exemples sub-folder (yes I know it's spelt wrong but that's how VS has it)
Look at the beauty & decide you need to buy one :p


Let me know if it works & if not what fails.

Cheers

[Griffin]

I followed your instructions A3N, even though you left off the part where I had to download WinRAR.

I was not able to see any new tiles under personal tab, but I did have the Lexan sample in my exemples folder.

I put a few marvel tiles on the mat to give it some depth, but here is what it looks like:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/5/3/0/1/lexan2_original.jpg


I would really like to have those personal tiles and also I would like for the mat to have the half tiles around the edges like the real mats do please.

[IAmBatman]

You guys are awesome. :-)

[A3n]

I followed your instructions A3N, even though you left off the part where I had to download WinRAR.
Sorry - thought everybody has that these days.

I was not able to see any new tiles under personal tab, but I did have the Lexan sample in my exemples folder.
Now that is strange I wouldn't have thought that the map would work without the tiles being present in the Personal tab. Can I ask you to send me a copy of your Virtualscape.ini file to see if there are any differences with my own.

I would really like to have those personal tiles and also I would like for the mat to have the half tiles around the edges like the real mats do please.
I have one idea yet to try to get the half tiles around the map. But at least now I know we can pass the files to others as required :D.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Since we are using the Lexan Mats, we need to incorporate some rules for the 1/2 and 1/3 tiles around the edges.

I think we could either rule that they are considered to not exist, or

We could rule that you can target through them and move through them as normal, but you can never use your normal movement or any special to end your movement on them.

[A3n]

I think we could either rule that they are considered to not exist, or


This would be my choice

Cheers

[Griffin]

I think we could either rule that they are considered to not exist, or


This would be my choice

CheersThat is probably the cleanest way to do it.

[Cavalier]

I think we could either rule that they are considered to not exist, or


This would be my choice

CheersThat is probably the cleanest way to do it.
Agreed x2

[Griffin]

I think we could either rule that they are considered to not exist, or


This would be my choice

CheersThat is probably the cleanest way to do it.
Agreed x2
That is 3 people who agree that the 1/2 and 1/3 hexes on the Lexan Mats should be ignored as if they do not exist. I am going to assume this is a proposal, and wait for 2 more votes to finalize it.

[Hahma]

What no pub?

How does one get into town? or out for that matter?

Need a pub/bar for some chair throwing good brawls. :D

Not even a manhole cover for people to get in and out of the city :confused:

Apparently it's a closed, gated community ...

What, is C3G City and elitist gated community? I hope those annual association fees are helping to keep the riff-raff out. ;):D

[mad_wookiee]

That is 3 people who agree that the 1/2 and 1/3 hexes on the Lexan Mats should be ignored as if they do not exist. I am going to assume this is a proposal, and wait for 2 more votes to finalize it.
YEA

[quozl]

That is 3 people who agree that the 1/2 and 1/3 hexes on the Lexan Mats should be ignored as if they do not exist. I am going to assume this is a proposal, and wait for 2 more votes to finalize it.
YEA

and another YEA to finalize it.

[Griffin]

We now have officially agreed on the non-usage of the 1/2 and 1/3 hexes on the Lexan Mats. The proposal passes and the floor is now open.

[GreyOwl]

Ok I would like somebody to try something with me. I have done up a LexanMap in VS thanx to Cav's help & I have put all the files required in this rar (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/LexanMap.rar)file.


What you need to do:
Extract file into your VS directory - the files should all go to their correct folders.
In the VS directory you will have a new text file, open this file & copy the contents. Open the Virtualscape.ini file, find the section [TilePerso] & replace all text under this heading with that which you copied.
Open VS, you should now have new tiles in the Personal tab. Open LexanCityBlock.hsc from your Exemples sub-folder (yes I know it's spelt wrong but that's how VS has it)
Look at the beauty & decide you need to buy one :p
Let me know if it works & if not what fails.

Cheers

I just tried it, and I don't see anything under the Personal tab either. I'll email you my Virtualscape.ini file.

[Griffin]

If you guys follow this link HERE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1032487&postcount=1194), you will find the proposal that just passed to allow us to submit Scenarios as a group! :thumbsup:

I am updating our front page documents now with the new changes.

[Taeblewalker]

Since there are 4 "yea" votes to make City Streets official (including my initial proposal), I am going to take the liberty of posting my next map.

Savage Land! (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1035201#post1035201)

[Griffin]

Front page is updated.

[Griffin]

The Carnival of Carnage map thread link is now on the front page.

[Taeblewalker]

The Carnival of Carnage map thread link is now on the front page.

When was this developed? It looks good.

[Griffin]

The Carnival of Carnage map thread link is now on the front page.

When was this developed? It looks good.
I had been working on it for about a week or so, then I finished getting it ready for viewing last night.

[Griffin]

I have an Asylum map that is fantastic, and a scenario that goes with it too, but I really need to wait until we have more Units from Gotham first, as it is specific in who is played in the scenario game.

[A3n]

Ok take 2.

Here is .rar (http://aslade.customer.netspace.net.au/LexanAsphaltMat.rar) file with the files in it to create the two lexan City Block mats. & some better instructions on how to install (I hope). If you installed the previous version you might want to delete the related .bmp files from the "Virtualscape\Images\Personal" folder & delete the tiles from the .ini file as mentioned below.


Required is a rar decompressing program - I use WinRar.
Decompress the file directly into your Virtualscape folder.
Make a backup copy of VirtualScape.ini file.
Open file "Add Contents to VirtualScape.ini under TilePerso.txt"
Select all text & copy.
Open file Virtulscape.ini file.
Locate the line in the text that reads "[TilePerso]" (do a search if you need to)
The next line should read "Tile0=" & a value of either True or False.
If it is False you haven't created any personal tiles. In this instance delete the line ("Tile0=False") & paste the previously copied text in this line (which should be directly under the line "[TilePerso]".

If it is True, you have other personal tiles already created. In this case you can keep them if you want but this will require a bit of work or you can remove them. To remove them just delete all lines between [TilePerso] and the next line that begins & ends with [] (in my file it is [Game]. You can now paste the previously copied text in the next line under "[TilePerso]". If you need to keep your previous personal tiles, scroll to the last tile listed under [TilePerso] (before the next line beginning & ending with []) & paste the previously copied text there. Scroll back up to the first line you pasted in (which should be "Tile0=True". From that point on change all the numbers on the for the Tile# to count consecutively from the last number of the tile already in your list.
For example if your last personal tile in the list was number 3 & after pasting in the text it looked like:
Tile3=true
Tile3Name=MyCoolTile
Tile3NbHex=1
Tile3Quantity=0
Tile3Texture=MyCoolTile.bmp
Tile3TextureSide=MyCoolTile Side.bmp
Tile3Char=
Tile3Color=3881787
Tile0=true
Tile0Name=LexanAsphalt
Tile0NbHex=1
Tile0Quantity=0
Tile0Texture=LexanAsphalt.bmp
Tile0TextureSide=LexanAshpalt Side.bmp
Tile0Char=
Tile0Color=3881787
Tile1=True
...

Change it to look like:
Tile3=true
Tile3Name=MyCoolTile
Tile3NbHex=1
Tile3Quantity=0
Tile3Texture=MyCoolTile.bmp
Tile3TextureSide=MyCoolTile Side.bmp
Tile3Char=
Tile3Color=3881787
Tile4=true
Tile4Name=LexanAsphalt
Tile4NbHex=1
Tile4Quantity=0
Tile4Texture=LexanAsphalt.bmp
Tile4TextureSide=LexanAshpalt Side.bmp
Tile4Char=
Tile4Color=3881787
Tile5=True
....
Save & Close "VirtualScape.ini" & Close "Add Contents to Virtualscape.ini under TilePerso.txt".
Run VirtualScape.
There will be 2 new maps in your "Exemples" folder called "LexanCityBlock.hsc" & "LexanCityBlock old.hsc" open which ever you wish to use.


I couldn't solve the issue of putting part tiles around the edge, but since we have voted to ignore their existence this shouldn't cause an issue.

Cheers

[Hahma]

Wow A3n, you are are some kind of genius. I'm lost with all that computer lingo, but I but those that will use this info will really appreciate it. :thumbsup:

[Wolvie]

If you guys follow this link HERE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1032487&postcount=1194), you will find the proposal that just passed to allow us to submit Scenarios as a group! :thumbsup:

I am updating our front page documents now with the new changes.

Nice Griffin! I'll look forward to that, I'm writing a civil war campaign at the moment, and would be nice to have a place like a C3G scenario thread to be inspired by, just like all the other work your doing is very inspirering

[Griffin]

If you guys follow this link HERE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1032487&postcount=1194), you will find the proposal that just passed to allow us to submit Scenarios as a group! :thumbsup:

I am updating our front page documents now with the new changes.

Nice Griffin! I'll look forward to that, I'm writing a civil war campaign at the moment, and would be nice to have a place like a C3G scenario thread to be inspired by, just like all the other work your doing is very inspireringThanks. The inspiration that goes around this site is like the circle of life. A lot of my ideas are directly inspired by what other custom map and unit designers are creating on this site. Like your terrain for example. I loved your "Awesome" ;) map with Superheroes and buildings, and ultimately, that and other similar custom terrain that I have seen will inspire me to create my own one day.

[Wolvie]

can't rep you griff, but is oh so true :)
best Forum ever :) I have some new terrain coming up soon..

[GreyOwl]

I can't wait until we do a "Secret Wars" campaign. :)

[Wolvie]

me neither! :)
that's really the most perfect one for a BIG Marvel Campaign..

[Griffin]

I can't wait until we do a "Secret Wars" campaign. :)Shhhhh... it's a Secret. 8)

[A3n]

In case you want to see how the Lexan VS maps turned out without downloading & installing all the stuff, here ya go:

Old Style Lexan City Block
http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/LexanCityBlock_old.jpg

New style Lexan City Block:
http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/LexanCityBlock.jpg

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

I can't wait until we do a "Secret Wars" campaign. :)

The player controlling Doctor Doom (with the Beyonder's powers) and Klaw (who is secretly possessed by the Beyonder) must always place an order marker on Doom (to show that he isn't "sleeping") or a Mitunsol effect works on everyone. Each turn, Doom must roll for control of the power.
Klaw has a Backstab ability, at which point he attacks Doom to retake control of his Beyonder powers.

Possibly not playable, but fun!

And the heroes have control of a device that can restore people from death. And don't forget symbiotes...

Yeah, I'm down for writing up a Secret Wars campaign!

Wait, did you mean the Spider-man version from the 90's cartoon?
:shock:

[mad_wookiee]

I was up w/ the baby until ungodly hours last night, so I had a chance to finish this:

Fast Lane (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1037261)
http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//fastlane1_1NM.jpg

Link is to the discussion thread.

[Hahma]

In case you want to see how the Lexan VS maps turned out without downloading & installing all the stuff, here ya go:

Old Style Lexan City Block
http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/LexanCityBlock_old.jpg

New style Lexan City Block:
http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/LexanCityBlock.jpg

Cheers

Awesome A3n, you are the man.

I can't wait until we do a "Secret Wars" campaign. :)

The player controlling Doctor Doom (with the Beyonder's powers) and Klaw (who is secretly possessed by the Beyonder) must always place an order marker on Doom (to show that he isn't "sleeping") or a Mitunsol effect works on everyone. Each turn, Doom must roll for control of the power.
Klaw has a Backstab ability, at which point he attacks Doom to retake control of his Beyonder powers.

Possibly not playable, but fun!

And the heroes have control of a device that can restore people from death. And don't forget symbiotes...

Yeah, I'm down for writing up a Secret Wars campaign!

Wait, did you mean the Spider-man version from the 90's cartoon?
:shock:

That would be quite the campaign project.

I was up w/ the baby until ungodly hours last night, so I had a chance to finish this:

Fast Lane (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1037261)
http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//fastlane1_1NM.jpg

Link is to the discussion thread.

Neat looking map. I like the sand bars/fords going across the river/stream and it looks like there's some room for hiding spots under the bridge to keep away from ranged units up there.

[Griffin]

Front page updated with Wookie's new map.

[Velenne]

Underground Lair (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2103)

Special Rules:

Uses 1 BftU master set, 1 FotA Castle set, 1 VW lava set, and 1 marvel set

Special Rules:

Glyph of Brandar: Teleport - Figures moving onto a glyph of of Brandar do not have to end their move. When movng off of a glyph of Brandar, you may move onto any other glyph of Brandar in play. If a figure is already standing in that space, roll a d20. If you roll an 8 or lower, your figure is destroyed. If you roll a 9 or higher, the other figure is destroyed, and you may continue your movement.

Turbolift: If your entire move consists of Wall Walk or Road spaces, ignore elevations when moving. You may pass over figures without becoming engaged, and pass over obstacles such as ruins. If you are engaged at the start of your move, you will still take leave engagement attacks unless a special power on your army card states otherwise.
Pic:

http://www.heroscapers.com/downloads//c3g%20underground%20lair._UXq.jpg


Ah, I see, so no special rules at all? Ok I'll leave it up in case anyone has an itch to try it and wait til later to properly get it a C3G stamp. :)
Actually, I think special rules are fine. There is a huge difference between special rules and scenarios.

Good work, V.

Ah, I see, so no special rules at all? Ok I'll leave it up in case anyone has an itch to try it and wait til later to properly get it a C3G stamp. :)
Actually, I think special rules are fine. There is a huge difference between special rules and scenarios.

Good work, V.

Agreed. To me, the difference is in the victory conditions. If they're different from just "kill 'em all" then it's a scenario.

Ah, I see, so no special rules at all? Ok I'll leave it up in case anyone has an itch to try it and wait til later to properly get it a C3G stamp. :)
Actually, I think special rules are fine. There is a huge difference between special rules and scenarios.

Good work, V.
Cav is right. Special Rules are completely fine. And soon, I think that we will be working on scenarios as well, just no right now since there is so much going on in C3G.

Velenne's suggestion seem reasonable I think.

So am I ok to post this map in the other forum or does there need to be discussion on it or :shrug:

[Griffin]

You can share this map with the world now, that is kinda the whole point in posting it on a public forum. ;)

[Velenne]

As a PDF or hsc still?

[Griffin]

As a PDF or hsc still?I am not sure what a hsc is, but you can share it with a cell block mate in the form of a prison-tat for all I care. :lol:

[Cavalier]

As a PDF or hsc still?I am not sure what a hsc is, but you can share it with a cell block mate in the form of a prison-tat for all I care. :lol:
HSC is the native file format for VS. I think Velenne is wanting to offer a map for the C3G projecct.

[Griffin]

As a PDF or hsc still?
I completely missed the Underground Lair map link. When you are ready, just post your next map by starting a new thread in the C3G forum and then sending the link here.

Btw, any question that we may ever have about our process should be answered on the front page of this thread. If it isn't, it may need to be added. Those first few posts are very important.

[Velenne]

Link to map thread. (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1039312#post1039312)

[Griffin]

Link to map thread. (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1039312#post1039312)
OK, this is embarrassing for me. But I did not realize that you are not a member of this map making group. :oops:

I nominate Velenne to become our eighth member.

YEA

[quozl]

yes

[mad_wookiee]

YEA

[Velenne]

Whatever happened to AYE?

[mad_wookiee]

ARR!

[Griffin]

We still need one more vote...

[Taeblewalker]

Yea

[Griffin]

Velenne is now in the fold. Welcome aboard! :up:

[A3n]

I vote YEA :D