C3G Map Maker's Discussion Thread

[quozl]

I wanted to discuss what you all think of the following:

1. using Grishnak's buildings on C3G maps
2. using sticky putty to attach ladders to those buildings
3. using Grishnak's half-hex rules for those buildings

[johnny139]

Hmm... I think adopting the buildings is an interesting idea. It's definitely not something beyond what C3G's done before as far as custom materials go. But any sort of new rule implementation would have to be Sanctum, I think.

[tcglkn]

Either Sanctum or Terrain Makers (which is A3n at this point).

[quozl]

OK, so treat this as public discussion of the idea and then we can ask the sanctum to approve the use of the buildings if that is what we want.

Personally, I'm in favor of #1 and #2 but not #3. I'd rather see half-hexes as unavailable to figures.

[IAmBatman]

I'm definitely in favor of testing it out and seeing if there would be any bugs or issues with it, and if there's not, going forward with it. :-) I'd love to see C3G Maps with Skyscrapers on them, and this seems like the most logical way to pursue that goal.

[johnny139]

I'm really familiar with Grishnak's buildings and their rules, so I can't speak on specifics, but if people are interested in working on it I'd support them. I can't say I'd be able to contribute in any meaningful way, though.

[Taeblewalker]

I've played with them, and I think it would be a great logical step in the evolution of C3G maps. I also think the half-hex rule for letting characters squeeze through is a great idea, though the penalty for standing on one on top of a building is a little artificial - I'd like to see half-hexes as legal for moving through only.

[quozl]

I've played with them, and I think it would be a great logical step in the evolution of C3G maps. I also think the half-hex rule for letting characters squeeze through is a great idea, though the penalty for standing on one on top of a building is a little artificial - I'd like to see half-hexes as legal for moving through only.

I just don't think half-hexes are worth the extra rules complexity.

[Yodaking]

I wanted to discuss what you all think of the following:

1. using Grishnak's buildings on C3G maps
2. using sticky putty to attach ladders to those buildings
3. using Grishnak's half-hex rules for those buildings

I have made his building and use them all the time for maps in my games, they are pretty awesome. Not sure what others do but for my maps I put the ladders on the half hexes (using putty to stick them to the building) and it works well for me, you may choose to only place them on full hexes for clarity of rules. The use of half hexes for at least movement rules (without stopping on them) is pretty important though. When you create an alley between two of the buildings, you need the freedom to move through those half hexes or it become way to easy to block up the whole alley with just one figure.

[A3n]

My biggest reservation about these is their height. The height of these buildings don't conform to the Marvel ruins & their height is not conducive to a future internal design that allows a figure with a height of 6 to enter the building - which I believe should be the minimum requirement for the interior of a building.

[Yodaking]

Not sure if I understand the problem. You don't enter those buildings. If you wanted to design a future building in which you did go in and out of that was 7 or even 8 hexes high, the two building would not look out of place on the same map IMO. The world is filled with buildings of different heights.

[A3n]

I have no problem with different height buildings but I prefer the scale to be on par inside & out & I have never seen an interior of a building only 6 foot high.

[johnny139]

I've never seen cars that only reach up to your waist, either. :shrug: It's a scale issue but one we've already broken.

[Hahma]

There is that

[A3n]

I've never seen cars that only reach up to your waist, either. :shrug: It's a scale issue but one we've already broken.

There is that. Which was one that I was against & one that I won't play until I have the correct scale.

But this will be 2 different scales of the same thing on the same battlefield which I am definitely against. But I suppose this is bigger picture stuff because nobody has designed buildings with interiors yet.

[IAmBatman]

Can we take the work Grish has done and adjust it to meet our scale desires? The scale can't be too big or it won't be reasonably playable.

[A3n]

Can we take the work Grish has done and adjust it to meet our scale desires? The scale can't be too big or it won't be reasonably playable.

Grish worked hard to get his buildings the way he wanted them & you don't mess with other peoples work. We would have to do our own which is something that Griff & I talked about well before Grish made his public. Since Grish made his public we went with the other projects that could be quicker to realise. (Sadly I haven't put the effort into solving my print issues with the shipping containers :|)

But the thing is we don't mess with other peoples work.

Also this is a little academic either way at the moment as we can't edit Virtual Scape to include buildings anyway so how can we design maps to include them?

[Wasgo]

Also this is a little academic either way at the moment as we can't edit Virtual Scape to include buildings anyway so how can we design maps to include them?

Couldn't you use something like starting zones to show where to place the buildings?

[IAmBatman]

Also this is a little academic either way at the moment as we can't edit Virtual Scape to include buildings anyway so how can we design maps to include them?

We need a Snappleman symbol. :-)

[MegaSilver]

Also this is a little academic either way at the moment as we can't edit Virtual Scape to include buildings anyway so how can we design maps to include them?

We need a Snappleman symbol signal. :-)

Fixed. :p

Calling Snappleman to the rescue!

[IAmBatman]

Yes, that too. :oops:

[Yodaking]

Was playing a game today with Grish's buildings and noticed that the 12 height for a two story building works out quite well for things like Beasts Stealth Leap 12, and height 6 for a single story building works well with Mocking Birds Pole Vault.

[Good Pig]

I promised pictures of Auggie's grass mat a bit ago, but I'm going to return it. The color of it is more of an emerald green and doesn't match the grass hexes very well.

On the upside, Andrew has said that he'll be releasing a desert and rock heroscape map shortly which I'm planning on doing an exchange for.

[IAmBatman]

The Sky mat looks pretty cool.

[Wasgo]

The Sky mat looks pretty cool.

That could make an interesting option for Skyscapers. Two maps, with the ground level and bottom of the towers as one map, and the top of the towers on another map using the Sky mat.

[Yodaking]

The Sky mat looks pretty cool.

That could make an interesting option for Skyscapers. Two maps, with the ground level and bottom of the towers as one map, and the top of the towers on another map using the Sky mat.

Good idea.

[quozl]

I promised pictures of Auggie's grass mat a bit ago, but I'm going to return it. The color of it is more of an emerald green and doesn't match the grass hexes very well.

On the upside, Andrew has said that he'll be releasing a desert and rock heroscape map shortly which I'm planning on doing an exchange for.

GP, I'm not sure so I guess I'll ask. Are you still a C3G mapmaker or have you resigned from the group?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

The Sky mat looks pretty cool.

Yeah, that thing is begging for the Helicarrier to be built on it!

[IAmBatman]

The Sky mat looks pretty cool.

That could make an interesting option for Skyscapers. Two maps, with the ground level and bottom of the towers as one map, and the top of the towers on another map using the Sky mat.

Good idea.

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. If we could find some way to get some of those mats on Virtualscape, the Map Department could actually use them! :-)

[Good Pig]

I promised pictures of Auggie's grass mat a bit ago, but I'm going to return it. The color of it is more of an emerald green and doesn't match the grass hexes very well.

On the upside, Andrew has said that he'll be releasing a desert and rock heroscape map shortly which I'm planning on doing an exchange for.

GP, I'm not sure so I guess I'll ask. Are you still a C3G mapmaker or have you resigned from the group?

Hey Quozl, It came up before and I'd mentioned that it was probably best if I resign from the map dept too. I'm usually not on the site for more than 10-15 mins at a time and not more than a few times a week. Sadly, my map dept legacy will have to remain the single sewer map.

You guys have been doing some awesome stuff lately. If I have anything useful to add when I happen to come on, I'll chip in.

[johnny139]

I'll remove you from the first post, in that case, though you are (I'm sure) welcome to return if ever convenient. :up:

Though, looking at that first post, things seem rather sparse member-wise. Perhaps inviting Yodaking to join again would be a good idea?

[quozl]

It is sparse. Maybe we should have a map contest where the winners are invited to join!

[Yodaking]

I'll remove you from the first post, in that case, though you are (I'm sure) welcome to return if ever convenient. :up:

Though, looking at that first post, things seem rather sparse member-wise. Perhaps inviting Yodaking to join again would be a good idea?

I'd be happy to come on board. Just fair warning that I currently have no upload ability for map build instructions and I also want to continue working on new figures so my time will be split.

[tcglkn]

You can make a free account at MediaFire.com to upload stuff to. :up:

[johnny139]

I didn't have upload powers at first, either. It's not an issue - there's free uploaders or you could e-mail the files to someone who does have the power.

I like the idea of a map contest, though. :ponder: Might be worth looking into. It's generally pretty hard to drum up enthusiasm in this part of the board, so that would help.

[quozl]

I like the idea of a map contest, though. :ponder: Might be worth looking into. It's generally pretty hard to drum up enthusiasm in this part of the board, so that would help.

That's what I was thinking. Plus, it might get some more people from the other parts of this site looking at superscape.

[IAmBatman]

You can get a free Photobucket account for such things as well.

[MegaSilver]

I'd like a map contest. :)

[Hidicul]

Do we need to submit a new map, or would we be able to submit one we already did? My giant map using all 4 castle sets is coming to mind

[Yodaking]

You can get a free Photobucket account for such things as well.


I use photobucket now for all my pics, but it would not take the map file when I tried to upload it. Maybe I did something wrong.

[Hidicul]

You can get a free Photobucket account for such things as well.


I use photobucket now for all my pics, but it would not take the map file when I tried to upload it. Maybe I did something wrong.

I never tried to upload a file to photobucket so I'm not sure, but I. Have the PB app on my phone. I think I remember Griff saying something about not trusting files that are uplaoded from the free sites and I'm sure others feel the same.

[IAmBatman]

You can get a free Photobucket account for such things as well.


I use photobucket now for all my pics, but it would not take the map file when I tried to upload it. Maybe I did something wrong.

Ah, no, I'm probably just clueless. :-) Listen to Tickle on this one.

[quozl]

You could email any files to c3gsupers@gmail.com

[A3n]

The Sky mat looks pretty cool.

That could make an interesting option for Skyscapers. Two maps, with the ground level and bottom of the towers as one map, and the top of the towers on another map using the Sky mat.

Good idea.

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. If we could find some way to get some of those mats on Virtualscape, the Map Department could actually use them! :-)

We can simulate mats without an issue in virtualscape, it's just an addition to the personal tiles.

You can get a free Photobucket account for such things as well.


I use photobucket now for all my pics, but it would not take the map file when I tried to upload it. Maybe I did something wrong.

You can't upload non picture files to photobucket. I use mediafire.com & haven't had an issue with it.

cheers

[IAmBatman]

The Sky mat looks pretty cool.

That could make an interesting option for Skyscapers. Two maps, with the ground level and bottom of the towers as one map, and the top of the towers on another map using the Sky mat.

Good idea.

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. If we could find some way to get some of those mats on Virtualscape, the Map Department could actually use them! :-)

We can simulate mats without an issue in virtualscape, it's just an addition to the personal tiles.


Cool! I'd love to see a map that uses that Skymat. :-) Maybe something on skyscraper rooftops?

[quozl]

OK, what do you all think of this 1st draft?

Join the C3G as an official C3G Mapmaker!

Do you have what it takes to make SUPER maps and scenarios?

Then enter the C3G Mapmakers Contest to show everyone what you got!

The Rules:

Enter two maps that are designed for C3G superscape. They can be casual maps, competitive maps, or even scenarios!

There are no specific number of master sets and expansions required for the map builds but please do keep in mind that we want our fans to be able to build these maps so keep your requirements reasonable.

The maps/scenarios must have a Batman theme (what that means is up to you!)

The C3G Mapmakers will choose the winners on July 31 and they will be invited to join the C3G Mapmakers.

If you aren't able to post files, you can send them to C3Gsupers@gmail.com

Anything we should should change/add/drop?

[quozl]

We could probably get this on the front page after C3V is done releasing stuff next week.

If we do, what do you think are our best looking maps & scenarios so I can throw some pictures up there too?

[IAmBatman]

Any set requirements on this to make judging easier?

[quozl]

Any set requirements on this to make judging easier?

I don't want to put too many limitations on it as we don't here in the group.

Maybe I should just say something like:

"There are no specific number of master sets and expansions required for the map builds but please do keep in mind that we want our fans to be able to build these maps so keep your requirements reasonable."

[IAmBatman]

Cool. What about a loose theme? I find parameters guide creativity.

[quozl]

Cool. What about a loose theme? I find parameters guide creativity.

Hmm... we could go with a Batman theme.... the timing is about right.

[Hidicul]

So is using 4 castle sets a bit of a sstretch?

[johnny139]

I don't think any sets would be "too much" - but I personally think a map that looks good, plays good, and uses a small set number is the most impressive thing someone can build.

[Yodaking]

Here is my first draft of a skyscraper map. The base layer is the sky mat. I made it a mirror map so that it would have the feel of a structured city grid style layout based on zoning requirements. However a more random collection of building tops (height & shape) could work equally as well, as long as the spacing between the building is fairly uniform to represent the streets/sidewalks below. Requirements are 2 Castle, 1 RotV, 1 BftU, & 1 Marvel.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/yodaking/Heroscape/City%20Scape/BuildingTopsv1.jpg

Oh, and I put shadow tiles on the little balcony roofs along one side to represent the Sun setting on the opposite side. Then the center one on the Sun side of the building is also covered in shadow due to the shadow cast by the next building over. So that is the only area where it is not a true mirror.

[IAmBatman]

I don't think any sets would be "too much" - but I personally think a map that looks good, plays good, and uses a small set number is the most impressive thing someone can build.

:word:

And a Batman theme would be awesome! :-) Bonus points for comic book references in the location choice.

[Yodaking]

I would think both a Batman & Spiderman theme would be okay with both movies coming out and it may help get a bigger response.

[IAmBatman]

Cool looking map, btw, Yodaking! I missed that post when I was posting mine.

Not sure about all the battlements, though. I could see some, but slick, modern buildings just wouldn't have them.

[Yodaking]

Yeah I understand that sentiment. The roofs all looked kind of flat and plain before I added any of them though and then I may have gotten carried away with them.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'd definitely think you could keep some or most of them, just maybe not all of them. :-)

[tcglkn]

Cool map Yodaking. Makes me want some Rooftop Water Tower DOs. I definitely think they should let you join the group, but that's not my place to say. I just want more cool C3G maps. 8)

[Hidicul]

Well tickle, I have one half built, if its still intact, that I guess I'll finish up for ya

[mac122]

Yeah I understand that sentiment. The roofs all looked kind of flat and plain before I added any of them though and then I may have gotten carried away with them.
Some buildings use a decorative facade to hide the AC units on top of buildings. Battlements would represent those quite well. :shrug:

[Wasgo]

Is anyone going to take over Griffin's maps that were meant to be part of the Rise of the Mutants scenarios?

[quozl]

Is anyone going to take over Griffin's maps that were meant to be part of the Rise of the Mutants scenarios?

No, we would make new maps.

[Wasgo]

No, we would make new maps.

Ah, wasn't sure as they were originally intended to be C3G maps before the X-Men release got changed from a Master Set to a Design Wave.

[heroscaper2010]

Just wanted to drop by here and say I just got done building your guys' Dark Dimension Battlefield and it looks great. I think I'm going to use it for HoSS playtesting. But anyways, keep up the great work that you guys put into making these maps!!! :D

EDIT: And awesome map you got there Yoda. I like the battlements.

[quozl]

Link to contest thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41854

I'll be sending to Week@Heroscapers and they should put it on the front page in a few days.

[A3n]

Helicarrier Map (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1638457#post1638457)

[IAmBatman]

:woot:

[IAmBatman]

quozl - I'm putting you in charge of this thread. :-)

[tcglkn]

theGuru juse released the next Lost Scenario: Shadow Caverns (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3719). Thought you guys would be able to make good use of the Co-op rules here in the future, they seem pretty fun.

[quozl]

Good idea! I'll have to enlist my wife and daughter in developing a coop superhero scenario.

[Scapemage]

Yeah I can't wait to play some co-op!

[Taeblewalker]

I think this calls for some co-op C3G rules!

[quozl]

All right, fellow mapmakers, we have some judging to do.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41854
Remember, the winner(s) will be joining us as C3G mapmakers!

My top 3 are:

ZJ
YK
BHLS

[IAmBatman]

Fwiw, as an avid observer here, ZJ, BC, and BHLS are my top three. :-)

If I were you guys, I'd consider bringing in at least two new members from this talented crowd!

[johnny139]

- Yodaking: Particularly for his Construction Site map, which is really good looking, has great use of DOs, and only uses up THREE sets in total. Very cool. And of course I'm also a sucker for bridges overhanging water...
- Smithy Winfred: Streets of Gotham caught my eye most, with a very inventive cityscape. One thing I think we all struggle with is how to get that "big city" feel without breaking the bank on Castles, and that map certainly does.
- Black_Charos: Iceberg Lounge being my favorite, but both show great, natural-looking map symmetry which I just adore. It's a shame about the set number on them, but big symmetrical maps tend to need it.

Definitely some great entries all around! Looking forward to having some new blood in here for sure.

[A3n]

So Longy didn't make it & isn't considered for this?

If not then these are my picks in order:
- Streets of Gotham, Smithy Winfred.
- Under Construction, Yodaking.
- Ivy's Greenhouse, Zettian Juggernaut.

[Hahma]

Smithy - I like Streets of Gothom for it's various levels and great urban feel. Having another place to put 18-Wheeler and cars is awesome too, though the water at the end of the street is weird. I liked Gotham Sewers as well, but not sure how SZ would work, but I like the creativity for sure.


ZJ - I like the use of various subtle uses of height elevations in various spots and I like the use of water. I like the road use to help ground-pounders.



Yodaking - like Under Construction and the River Walk one is okay too, but seems more like a scenario map to me.



SW has a lot of creativity for sure. ZJ has safer map style and I like them for sure, as they especially seem to keep games from being too flyer reliable. YK is a little rough but has some good ideas.

[quozl]

So Longy didn't make it & isn't considered for this?

He's just learning virtualscape and hasn't put his maps on there yet so while I think we should look at his stuff in the future, my thought was that he shouldn't be considered for this contest.

[Taeblewalker]

Streets of Gotham
Under Construction
Batcave Exit.

[quozl]

So it looks like as a group, we like Yodaking, Smithy, and ZJ the best.

Do we want to invite all 3 as mapmakers or should we narrow it down some more?

[johnny139]

I feel like three new members would be a lot, but the area certainly isn't drowning in activity at the moment. It would make votes a lot rougher, though.

I'm wary but not entirely opposed to adding all three, and would have no qualms with any one (or two) on that list being invited.

[quozl]

Well, we could be super cautious and invite just one. YK was the only one that all of us picked. But then again, the other two were picked by all but one of us.

[quozl]

I'd like to declare all 3 of these guys as winners and invite them to join:

Yodaking, Smithy, and ZJ

What do you all think?

[Hahma]

I think that would be fine. I am not nearly as active here unfortunately because my time is more limited and I have been concentrating on the Inner Sanctum stuff. So a few fresh bodies could certainly help :D

[johnny139]

Mulling it over I see no reason to not let all three in. Three of our members are Heroes without much time to work on maps, leaving you and Taeblewalker, and you guys have got your own distractions. I think three Allies would definitely liven things.

[A3n]

Actually I would like to see us go a different path. I would like us to invite only one, because I still feel we need another in our group, but I'd like to open up to public maps design slots. We can have a submission thread where would be candidates put forward there design if the group likes it & there is a slot open we let them start a thread & design it. A little like the public figure designs but less rigour around voting for a design or anything.

[Taeblewalker]

Who would you most like to see come in, A3N?

[IAmBatman]

I really like that idea of opening up map submissions in general. :up: I think everyone of the contestants here had great map entries that I'd love to see workshopped and made even better. :-)

[A3n]

Who would you most like to see come in, A3N?

I think because it was a competition, that Smithy ended up the winner as his streets of Gotham got the most 1st place votes. :shrug:

[quozl]

Yodaking was the only one that got votes from all of us. Anyway, I think we should invite all 3 and also work on a way to do a public map design thread.

[quozl]

Let's put it to a vote:

A. Invite the top 3 to become C3G mapmakers
B. Invite Yodaking to become a C3G mapmaker
C. Invite someone else

I pick A.

[A3n]

I feel it should be C) Smithy Winfred. Out of 5 current group members 3 voted him as first & 1 voted him as second. Interestingly YK was voted by all yes, but only 1 member put him as their first pick.

But I am fine with all 3, but would be against a public component at this stage if we do invite all 3.

[johnny139]

Ha, well, I'd vote B and move forward with a public component, so it seems like we're at a bit of an impasse here. :lol:

[IAmBatman]

Still got Taeblewalker and Hahma to help you out, though. :-)

[Taeblewalker]

If we are going to let only one in, then we should pick C, Smithy, for having the most votes.

[Hahma]

If we are going to let only one in, then we should pick C, Smithy, for having the most votes.

:word:

[quozl]

Was everyone voting in order though?

[A3n]

Was everyone voting in order though?
Mine was & I suppose I just assumed everyone else was.

[Wasgo]

But I am fine with all 3, but would be against a public component at this stage if we do invite all 3.

I like the idea of only admitting one person and encouraging the other two people to participate in the public component, as it would help encourage people to get involved. Inviting all three would be a short term benefit, but I think supporting the public process would help get more people involved in the longer term.

[Hahma]

Was everyone voting in order though?

Mine was

[quozl]

OK, it looks like Smithy Winfred wins then! I'll PM him and then you guys can get to work on the public option.

[Smithy Winfred]

Thanks for inviting me guys, I look forward to working with you. :)

[IAmBatman]

Congrats, Smithy! :-)

[quozl]

Yeah, can't wait to see what you start up!

[johnny139]

Yup, welcome to the fold. :up:

Now how 'bout that Public Program, eh? Should we just hold a vote on maps submitted? Should people be able to cash-in design points or something?

[IAmBatman]

Yup, welcome to the fold. :up:

Now how 'bout that Public Program, eh? Should we just hold a vote on maps submitted? Should people be able to cash-in design points or something?

I think they should have to pay design points like they were designing any regular unit. And probably a limit to the number at once and maybe even a voting process like we have now for the unit designs.

[Scapemage]

Yup, welcome to the fold. :up:

Now how 'bout that Public Program, eh? Should we just hold a vote on maps submitted? Should people be able to cash-in design points or something?

I think they should have to pay design points like they were designing any regular unit. And probably a limit to the number at once and maybe even a voting process like we have now for the unit designs.
I agree, having too many maps running at once, especially by the public, could get out of hand very quickly.

[Yodaking]

I think you need to have your own separate rewards point system. Gain points by running tests on maps in progress and any other things that will help (maybe testing destructible objects and/or custom terrain projects?). Then cash them in to design a map of your own. That way you can control the flow the public designed maps while drumming up some more help on getting the maps tested and ready for inclusion in the official line of maps.

[IAmBatman]

I think having one public rewards system makes more sense - easier to manage. A point is a point because they help us either way. I'd hate to see this become too much of the redheaded stepchild part of the group. :-P

The only difference is that maps shouldn't overlap with the other public designs, of course. I'd say more like open it up to one public design at a time here. Have a public design post type of thread and do nominations and voting when you have an open slot here just like over there.

[Hahma]

I think having one public rewards system makes more sense - easier to manage. A point is a point because they help us either way. I'd hate to see this become too much of the redheaded stepchild part of the group. :-P

The only difference is that maps shouldn't overlap with the other public designs, of course. I'd say more like open it up to one public design at a time here. Have a public design post type of thread and do nominations and voting when you have an open slot here just like over there.

:word:

I think we have enough threads to cover and keep track of that a separate points system for maps would just add more of a problem than it's worth. This way people can earn map building points by doing the other stuff for the group like testing, picture taking and whatnot, but they can also earn unit design points by helping with the maps.

[Scapemage]

:word:

I think we have enough threads to cover and keep track of that a separate points system for maps would just add more of a problem than it's worth. This way people can earn map building points by doing the other stuff for the group like testing, picture taking and whatnot, but they can also earn unit design points by helping with the maps.
I like what Hahma is saying. Flexibility is important. Someone may really be into testing maps and playing on all sorts of different build, but not be interested in building their own maps at all, or vice versa. Allies and Sidekicks already have a few different ways of gaining points and spending them. Adding more flexibility to the mix is only a good thing, and we won't have to deal with rules and such for a whole new system.

[A3n]

Nah, no points system. Lets just have a submission thread & the members decide if it's something that we should pursue as a C3G map. If it is & there is a slot available then away they go. Only 2 public slots available at a time.

I don't want to over complicate this as we need submissions over here to keep it alive.

[quozl]

Nah, no points system. Lets just have a submission thread & the members decide if it's something that we should pursue as a C3G map. If it is & there is a slot available then away they go. Only 2 public slots available at a time.

I don't want to over complicate this as we need submissions over here to keep it alive.

I like this but let's start with 1 public slot at first and then see how it goes.

[A3n]

Fair enough.

[Yodaking]

1 public map project at a time with no points cost sounds like a good solution to me. Having a central thread where people can submit and discuss their map ideas would be key. Then would you put the vote to the public too or keep the vote in house?

[quozl]

I think we'd be keeping the vote to just mapmakers as we'd be the ones working with the public designer.

[IAmBatman]

No points sounds even better. :-) Good call.

One at a time, start a "public map post" thread, and as map members choose one at a time to get the open public map slot and you're good to go.

[johnny139]

That all sounds good to me.

[quozl]

I proposed it then. (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1658657&postcount=15)

Smithy, you can vote too.

[heroscaper2010]

I just want to let you guys know that Moon Base Alpha is under construction. I'll come back when it's done.

[quozl]

I just want to let you guys know that Moon Base Alpha is under construction. I'll come back when it's done.

Cool! Be sure to post in the thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36732) what you think of it.

[Viegon]

Just wanted to pop in and say I think this is a brilliant idea (allowing the public to make maps). I didn't do anything for the contest because I didn't want to be a part of the map team full-time, but I do like making maps and would love to post some ideas from time to time (and run with them in the process, hopefully :)).

[MegaSilver]

So you're basically making a BoV for C3G? Sounds suspiciously like MoV should return. ;)

(Though, I'd say that non-competitive will be in this mix too, which will be the main difference.)

[IAmBatman]

So you're basically making a BoV for C3G? Sounds suspiciously like MoV should return. ;)

(Though, I'd say that non-competitive will be in this mix too, which will be the main difference.)

No more than C3G was NM24.

We're not going out and looking for the best maps around and judging them. We're creating stuff from ground up, starting with the template of an interesting idea that's brought to us (at least in the public segment).

[Smithy Winfred]

I like the idea, no points sounds cool. Looking at the response to the Map Maker Contest, I don't think there are enough interested parties to warrant a point cost, this might open it up to more people.

Yes for me

[quozl]

Map & Scenario Public Submissions Thread (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43045)

[Smithy Winfred]

I'm working on a design for a map that I designed recently. It is based around a military battleship, and it's one of my favorite maps I've ever designed. It does use quite a bit of pieces, but it is absolutely worth it.

I just need to know how I should go about uploading the file once I finish it.

[quozl]

If you want to email it to c3gsupers@gmail.com one of us site supporters could upload it for you.

[Smithy Winfred]

Thanks!

[Viegon]

Hey, I was formulating ideas for a public map, but I've got a question: is stacking water-like tiles allowed for C3G maps? For instance, I want to use a SotM set or two in the map, but I won't be using the swamp water tiles, and I didn't want to waste them; so I was wondering if I could stack them under other terrain for height support.

[Smithy Winfred]

I know it's Ok to do that in Virtualscape, so I don't see any reason why not? However, that could make designing building instructions more difficult.

Sounds like an interesting map, any spoilers?

[johnny139]

I dunno... I could see it being used sparsely, but that sort of messes up layering and isn't exactly stable.

[A3n]

No. It's not a legal placement of the tiles as per the official rules & Virtualscape DOES NOT have a means for doing it.

[Smithy Winfred]

Oh... Mine does...

I gives me the option of laying 1 or 2 tiles in one space (only for water type pieces). Fine by me though, you can always just leave them out. I often ake a border around my maps with Swamp Water instead of just not using it

[A3n]

Oh... Mine does...

I gives me the option of laying 1 or 2 tiles in one space (only for water type pieces). Fine by me though, you can always just leave them out. I often ake a border around my maps with Swamp Water instead of just not using it

Yeah sorry, I suppose if you mean to always put 2 water spaces down you can use the water 2 tile in VS. Though having said that a swamp water 2 tile doesn't exist. And you can't put 1 water tile down then a terrain piece on top of that. Also even if you use the water 2 tile it hasn't got a variation in the output to indicate that there are 2 water tiles there.

[Viegon]

Alright, thanks for the answers. I was just curious because I knew you guys used ladder pieces up under castle walks for support, which if my memory is right isn't technically "legal" placement. I'm just the type of map maker who doesn't like to waste any pieces, and swamp water isn't likely going to fit on my map, thematically.

Thanks again.

[quozl]

We're not a stickler for the official rules of mapbuilding but we do want to be able to do it in Virtualscape.

[Smithy Winfred]

I use ladders-under-walkway techniques all the time, and VS allows it.

Anyhoo, heres my new map, hope you guys like it. In honor of the new Hasbro movie, the company that started it all, Battleship (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3745)

hope you like it, I made a variation version that includes two ships side by side, but it uses twice the pieces that this one does.

[quozl]

How much does it use, SM?

Also, can you start a thread for it? Just use the same format A3n used for the Helicarrier (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41891).

[Smithy Winfred]

How much does it use, SM?

Also, can you start a thread for it? Just use the same format A3n used for the Helicarrier (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41891).

Oops sorry, It uses 1 BFTU, 1 CB, 1 ROTV and one Castle.

I'll start the thread when I get back to my computer (now working on an Iphone).

[A3n]

We don't want them to start a thread until we give them the go ahead.

What he has done thus far is perfect for our consideration.

Now having said that, If you can get the requirements down to just what you have said (1 BFTU, 1 CB, 1 ROTV and one Castle), then I am ready to give this the go-ahead. Currently you have unused pieces & some pieces that you have used more than is available. There are a few issues with your placement of support ladders & a couple of the castle crenulations but they can be fixed once during the design phase.

So :thumbsup: from me when you have reduced the requirements.

[quozl]

A3n, Smithy was voted in as a C3G Mapmaker.

[A3n]

A3n, Smithy was voted in as a C3G Mapmaker.

That's right. Sorry I thought this was public submission. Sorry Smithy gotta get used to you as a new member. :D

Yes start a thread, but look at my notes already :).

[Smithy Winfred]

Sure, thanks! I couldn't figure out which pieces I was using to much.

[quozl]

Sure, thanks! I couldn't figure out which pieces I was using to much.

Looks like 1 3-hex sand, 1 water, and 1 2-hex concrete.

[Smithy Winfred]

k sure that shouldn't take much.

[Zettian Juggernaut]

Ivy's Greenhouse (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43530) is up.

[Yodaking]

What is the process for play testing maps? Is their a specific feedback form that needs to be used?

[Yodaking]

*double post*

[Hahma]

Well you want to see how well the armies interact with the terrain. Are there choke points that seemed good or bad, is there enough height advantage options (are those options too close to each other or to far to be much use), does the whole map get used or does the action always seem to end up in a certain portion of the map. Is the map fun to play on? Is it good for certain unit types but not others? Basically you kind of want the map to be fun and have most of it be used. So if those aren't the cases, it might need tweaking and that's where feedback from testers comes in.

[Smithy Winfred]

Battleship (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1671237#post1671237)is up

[Viegon]

The Book of Green Lantern Mogo Map (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1695618#post1695618) is up.

[MegaSilver]

Hmmm... :ponder: I have a 2 Marvel Set map I've created recently. Perhaps I should post it here?

[quozl]

You may post it in the Public Submissions thread.

[MegaSilver]

You may post it in the Public Submissions thread.

Okay. I'll have to grab the USB drive that it's on at some point; I don't have it on my at the moment.

[ibechief]

I'm not sure if this is the right place or if I should have posted in the public submissions thread. I just wanted to offer my :2cents:

I would like to see some adoption of the foam buildings into official maps. We have spent hundreds of dollars buying terrain that looks like fields and swamps, but superheroes fight in the city. I understand that it is hard to keep custom terrain standard across all builders and players. But the rules are here to use them, the Destructable Objects are here, all we need is for someone to pick a design for a building and then approve it. Then we can start to see the incorporation of buildings into our maps.

I know there might be much more to this than what I've said; I'm just offering up my opinion in the hopes that you know that at least one person out there wants to see some C3G maps to test on or play, that feature buildings/skyscrapers/cityscape.

And if I'm in the wrong place, feel free to yell/berate/chastise me!

[A3n]

No yelling or berating. This area of the boards is dedicated to C3G & C3G adds on to the official HS & as yet neither C3G or official HS has released a foam building & as such we won't be including others onto our maps until we do or we endorse any that are out there.

I recommend you or anybody else to go make your own thread in the marvel map thread to collect & create such maps. As you may surmise though they will not be able to be used for C3G playtesting.

This does not mean to say C3G should not be played with such buildings, just not playtested. We have not been made aware of any particular incompatibilities between C3G & foam buildings (in fact Grishnakh being a friend of C3G, I would wager that his buildings & rules would work hand-in-hand), but we don't want to introduce variables into our process for costing figures, at least variables that we have not fully vetted ourselves.

[Smithy Winfred]

Not to mention what a pain it would be to incorporate them into a Virtualscape map. If you have some good Ideas, you might want to talk to Grish about making some maps together. I have multiple made (no skyscrapers yet) and I would be all over some official maps with those features.

[IAmBatman]

Not to mention what a pain it would be to incorporate them into a Virtualscape map. If you have some good Ideas, you might want to talk to Grish about making some maps together. I have multiple made (no skyscrapers yet) and I would be all over some official maps with those features.

Hmm ... I wonder if Snappleman could help with that. I'd really, really love to see us eventually adopt Skyscrapers for scenario maps if nothing else.

[Yodaking]

I am planning on adding a few maps to my new Marvel Map thread the will feature Grishs' first three buildings. I have made them and use them quite a bit when not play testing, they look great on a board and are a ton of fun to use. I agree with A3N though that for play testing purposes they may not be ideal, especially the 3 story building as it takes a long time for a ground unit to get to the top. It would obviously depend on how the map is constructed and which buildings you use. That shouldn't preclude them from use in some casual maps and scenarios though.

[quozl]

especially the 3 story building as it takes a long time for a ground unit to get to the top.

For such things, you may want to use C3G's turbolift or Grishnak's elevator rules (found in his skyscraper).

[Smithy Winfred]

I actually had a different rule set for elevators that I still use, simply b/c it is, well, simple. Not to hate on Grish, but his extra rules tend to be waaaaay to complex. I never took a liking to the throwing rules, although the elevator rules do seem simple enough.

[IAmBatman]

I actually had a different rule set for elevators that I still use, simply b/c it is, well, simple. Not to hate on Grish, but his extra rules tend to be waaaaay to complex. I never took a liking to the throwing rules, although the elevator rules do seem simple enough.

I'd love to see them. I agree that going as simple as you can is a good thing for these types of rules additions.

[Yodaking]

especially the 3 story building as it takes a long time for a ground unit to get to the top.

For such things, you may want to use C3G's turbolift or Grishnak's elevator rules (found in his skyscraper).

Good point. Since C3G has the turbo lifts, might as well be using them.

[Smithy Winfred]

My rules are, currently (they go through changes as needed):

There is one space for each floor of the building w/o a normal space on it. I.e, 1 story has none, 2 story has 2, etc.

Instead of moving with a figure adjacent to a door space (any side of the building w/ a door on it) you may use the elevator. Place the figure on the next floor space available (either up or down.)

In short, instead of moving you move up or down a level while in the elevator, you cannot be attacked, or use special powers.

[Smithy Winfred]

Battleship (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=43940)is back in action, hoping to finish this one up soon.

[quozl]

I have a new map: Country Road (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=46885)

[Hahma]

I need to withdraw my position in the map maker's section. I haven't contributed with new maps and haven't had time to properly put toward this area and it's not fair to the others.

[A3n]

I need to withdraw my position in the map maker's section. I haven't contributed with new maps and haven't had time to properly put toward this area and it's not fair to the others.

Totally understand Hahma, thanx for your efforts.

Cheers

[Smithy Winfred]

I need to withdraw my position in the map maker's section. I haven't contributed with new maps and haven't had time to properly put toward this area and it's not fair to the others.

Sorry to here that, but I can totally understand, sometimes life gets in the way.

[quozl]

I hope you get more time soon Hahma so you can step back into this sometime but if not, I understand.

[Yodaking]

The Slums of Rio Scenario (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47272) thread has been started.

[Smithy Winfred]

Just a heads up, but Battleship is back on track w/ the suggested changes.

[A3n]

Tri-Ways War Zone (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1774099)

[Tornado]

Is it OK if I post a rough map for Arkham Asylum?

I am attempting to work on campaign that Bats developed but I am struggling just to make the first map. I could use some advice.

How do you post a pic/map from virtual-scape on here?
I can not upload them to photobucket (wrong file type?).

[Yodaking]

I use mediafire.com (http://www.mediafire.com/) to store and link my maps.

[quozl]

Since Yodaking is a member now, I guess we can take a public entry.

[A3n]

Too true. :up:

[Tornado]

I uploaded the images to MediaFire but no luck posting them here.
Here is a link. (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?c58155532czqhkr)

And the back view (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?zvj8ocrx0do1gog).

Here is the blueprint from the comic. http://www.batmanytb.com/bios/places/arkham_blueprint.jpg

This is the prison break scenario from Batman #491.
The single rock hexes represent cells, there are four more in the inner walls.
I tried to recreate the circle in circle design in the blueprints. Creating cells was difficult and the single hexes felt like a good solution.

The front entry is the general staff area and the level two hexes represent the main security area. There is a cliff to the side for Bane to unleash his rocket launchers.

I am not sure if I am even close here but most of the wanted elements made it in the design. I also toyed with the notion of no walls, representing them with empty hexes but I like the look and LoS blocking of the walls.

Thanks for letting me post here. I appreciate any help, I am quite lost. :)

[Yodaking]

I do find for just posting a pic of the map that photobucket still works best. I use mediafire for the build directions & virtual scape file as photobucket is no good at that.

I really like the fact that you are using the established comic blue prints as a reference guide. That leads to a rather ambitious project though since it is really hard to properly transfer the scale (1 hex thick walls makes for a huge cell) and details into a scape board. Do you plan on making a specific 'Bane attacks Arkham' scenario based on the comic events? Or would this just be a casual map for general use?

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, those links aren't working. They just take me to a Mediafire page that's wanting me to sign up for (and pay for) their service. :-P

Maybe try Photobucket?

Edit: This is just the map for now. T-Spinny and I are working on a scenario that I plan to eventually LD in the sanctum, though. This is just step one towards that. :-)

[Yodaking]

Sometimes the details/goals of the scenario can help shape the map parameters. Do you need the front offices or could you be content with just the back 'circle' cell block & Banes attack cliff? Can the scenario start after he blows a hole in the wall such that the cell block is 90% walled in with a large hole or gap on one side?

[IAmBatman]

The details aren't too fleshed out yet. I know I would like to see an area in front of the building where the police can put together a perimeter, Bane's attack cliff, and the cells. The back offices aren't needed. I'm thinking it'd be best to have a side door that could be opened from the interior so that the only way in from outside is with Bat-Grapples.

[Yodaking]

I think I would focus on making a hex based set of 'circle' cells then with the outside of that building fleshed out. Maybe even only just over half of the circle cells needs to become a playable hex map, that would give you more room for the outside police perimeter and attack cliffs. Would the cliff and the door be on the same side or opposite sides?

[IAmBatman]

I think it could be either.

[Yodaking]

Started playing around with the idea myself in the virtual scape map builder, it is a difficult task. I was saying hex shaped cell block but thinking octagon, which does not work out. Now I am not familiar with the issue/event you are drawing inspiration from so this could be pretty far off the mark but here is what I came up with based on what I am hearing.

Uses 1 RotV, 1 Castle (all but ladders & some battlements), 1 Dungeon (all), 1 RttFF (all).

Arkham Escape - Inside Look

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/yodaking/Heroscape/C3G%20Maps/ArkhamEscape-InsideLook_zps6b30062f.jpg

Features 1 purple start zone in a center cell for the high value target Bane is trying to break out. The glyph would represent some kind of locked door that needs to be dealt with. Then the 12 red start zones are for 4 squads of Arkham Inmates, ready to take advantage of the chaos.

Arkham Escape - Bane Side

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/yodaking/Heroscape/C3G%20Maps/ArkhamEscape-SideViewBane_zps22ceae08.jpg

Features 12 orange start zones for Banes forces. They lead up to the top of a rocky hill (cliff like feature) from which Bane uses a rocket attack to blow a whole in Arkhams' back wall. The deep shadow tiles are cast by all the spot lights the cops are using on the opposite side.

Arkham Escape - Cops Side

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/yodaking/Heroscape/C3G%20Maps/ArkhamEscape-SideViewCops_zpse81fd931.jpg

Features 24 blue start zones for Gordon, the cops, & team Batman. All of which are on road tiles so that the cops can quickly move around the perimeter as needed. Batman can grapple over the wall (glass ceiling - sunlight can be therapeutic) and open up the side door for the cops to rush in and take control of the situation.

[Smithy Winfred]

If I'm not mistaken, the idea he is drawing from is the Arkham escape in the beginning of the Knightfall series when Bane breaks the prisoners out of Arkham. He uses a blueprint similar to the one posted above, and the set up appears similar. I'd suggest actually extending the prison a bit and make a passageway from the main cells to some other part of the building, right now, it sort of just looks like a weird round building and it's not yelling Arkham Asylum at me in anyway. Also, the grass on the map makes it look too happy to me, I'd prefer using a second BftU just to make the map look darker and more ominous.

[Yodaking]

Thanks for the insight Smithy. The info you provided helps clarify what is wanted. Didn't know their wasn't an actual person they were trying to break out. I'll leave this to T-Spinny to work out then since he and Bats have had some greater discussion on it already.

Oh, and I can see the images T provided. I'm not sure what the cliffs do for the map, Bane would not be able to move up or down them without taking falling damage. The use of negative space to represent the outer walls is a pretty good idea but I think I would just eliminate all those grass and rock tiles on the one side of the map.

[IAmBatman]

Definitely a cool start! He was actually trying to break out everyone in that issue (the basic premise of Knightfall is that Bane breaks everybody out of Knightfall and has Batman running all over town with no rest to run a gauntlet of all of his worst foes, at the end of which is Bane waiting in the Batcave to finish breaking the Bat).

Smithy had some good notes here. I think this is one that might be worth going to two castle sets for, just because it'd be great to get a few more individual cells. Also, for the scenario I'm thinking of, I'd love that central room to be expanded a bit so that about three figures could maneuver around in it a bit (for those who read that issue, I'm thinking Batman, Joker, and Dr. Arkham).

There'll definitely be Arkham Inmates starting inside the Asylum and probably a few of the well known Inmates as well (not all, just enough to represent them well). And I'll probably keep Bane's forces pretty small. Either just Zombie/Trogg/Bird, or if we never bother doing unit designs for them, perhaps just Bane and the Hired Guns.

[Tornado]

Weird you can see the images but Bats can not YK.

I can not express the level of my thanks to you YK. You have my mind spinning in cool directions. Great suggestions.
It is really hard to design this map without reading the comic.
I recently 'inherited' a bunch of comics and come to find out I have the entire Knightfall series(2 of each copy) but I am missing this critical prequel issue. I did find a reprint though in a $30 combo that I read to get a better idea of what was going on.
Could you try to re-post the maps so everyone can see it?

The gist of the scenario is that Bane(and some henchman) is up on the cliff to start and launches rockets at Arkham Asylum which causes enough damage to release the inmates. Then Joker goes after Dr. Arkham and the rest of the inmates try to escape.
I think Batman and Robin come in from the roof(?)(air support?).

I like your idea YK of focusing on the 'cell' area for the map and intend to try a new version. I will attempt to put the walls on the outside and keep the castle sets to a minimum. Perhaps a Marvel, Castle, and RotV and possibly a D&D.

Bats how many total cells do we need? How many Arkham Inmates and then how many Unique Heroes?

[IAmBatman]

I think we'll let the map determine that to an extent. I think we can let the squaddies mill in a common area like Yodaking has, but I was thinking a wider version of the middle room would be a great place for Joker to hold Arkham (probably represented by a Civilian) hostage, and then maybe a handful (four to six?) individual cells scattered around for individual inmates, and just to sell the look of the building. We could decide later on how many of them to actually fill (though one would be the one Joker escaped from, I suppose).

Sadly, this whole storyline is pre-Harley Quinn, so no appearances from her!

[Tornado]

Hmm. A lot to think about but I feel better about it.
Thanks for letting me hi-jack your thread map makers.

Back to the chalk board. I will try to e-mail you some files if need be Bats.

[Yodaking]

When I first clicked on the link today, I also go all the links asking you to sign in or up for mediafire, but right in the middle of it all was a download image link that I clicked and then I could see it. Now when I click on either link, it just shows me the picture and skips the earlier download links.

From what I'm hearing, it does sound like 2 castle sets might be needed. Even if you use negative space to represent the outer walls, the desire for individual cells and a larger central room will require a bit of space. I didn't use the RotV ruins at all but perhaps they could be used in some way to establish some dividing walls.

[IAmBatman]

I was able to look at your images now, T-Spinny! Not quite the sleak look of Yodaking's, which I like, but it's pretty cool how you made the cells and I like the concept of a front entrance away from the rest of it like that. Lots to think about and toy with here still! :-)

[Tornado]

Agreed. I am glad you could see the maps. I will give it another shot. YK has given me much inspiration.
Here is a synopsis of the comic for reference
Knightfall Tuesday Review; Batman #491


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VOXwfGw3QXQ/TovLkzrunvI/AAAAAAAAADo/GEQEMniMEcU/s1600/Batman+491.jpeg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VOXwfGw3QXQ/TovLkzrunvI/AAAAAAAAADo/GEQEMniMEcU/s1600/Batman+491.jpeg) Batman #491 Writer: Doug Moench
Artist: Jim Aparo


This is the big set up for Knightfall. Bane and crew pay off a guard at Arkham to give them the blueprints to the place. Commissioner Gordon is getting his head handed to him by new Mayor, Armond Krol to clean up Gotham City Asap. Jean Paul spends time with the Tim Drake Robin and cuts his hair while starting a new work out program that has a set of 1,000 push ups. Jean Paul is feeling down because he was almost beaten to death by Killer Croc and Bane just walked away from him.

Bane and his group, Bird,Trogg and Zombie help Bane destroy the violent wing at Arkham with a stinger missile. The Joker is the first one set free and sets his sight on the man who runs the place one Dr. Jeremiah Arkham. The state police lend at hand to the Gotham City PD and team up to bring the situation under control. Just when they think they have things well in hand Bane drops a large cache of guns and ammo into Arkham.

The inmates are breaking free along with all of Batman's other rouges. The Joker now takes Dr. Arkham and using some wire and a shotgun ties them together to make a cool noose. With the noose if Dr. Arkham bends down or moves in the just the tiniest way the shotgun will blast his head off. As Batman makes his way to Arkham he saves a group of orderlies from some deranged inmates and runs into The Jokers toying with Dr. Arkham.


The Joker makes a break for it while Batman has just one chance to throw a Bat-A-Rang with rip the wire and keep it from blowing of Dr. Arkhams head. Of course the name of this book is Batman he succeeds in doing just that. After Batman saves him Dr. Arkham is gibbering on and on about maddness. It seems that Dr. Arkham has lost his mind just like all of him inmates. With the walls of Arkham broken down and 95% of Batman is standing in the rouble and lets out a loud yell. Bane remarks that if he didn't want the Batman's blood so badly he might pity him.

Next; Batman #492 Knightfall part 1

-Tash Moore
Posted by The Verbal Mosh (http://www.blogger.com/profile/02944771409904411630)

Also here are some ideas from Bats. Ideally we'd want something with high walls, a single door, and a good approximation of cells with turrets. We'd definitely need at least one well set-off chamber Joker and Arkham to hang out in. We'd also want a decent-sized grassy field in front of the Asylum for the cops to be on (maybe past a front gate, depending on how elaborate we want to go). And maybe a small cliffside for Bane and co to fire their rockets from?

[Smithy Winfred]

I'd like to take a shot at Bird, Trogg and Zombie if no one has them drafted.

[IAmBatman]

I'd like to take a shot at Bird, Trogg and Zombie if no one has them drafted.

They're not drafted. Finding appropriate minis would be the toughest part. I'd loooove to see them designed, though! :-) I'd put them all over a Knightfall campaign.

[Smithy Winfred]

I'd like to take a shot at Bird, Trogg and Zombie if no one has them drafted.

They're not drafted. Finding appropriate minis would be the toughest part. I'd loooove to see them designed, though! :-) I'd put them all over a Knightfall campaign.

That will be a pain.

[Tornado]

Perhaps they could be designed for the campaign where the mini restriction could be loose. Then if a good mini ever did arise they would be ready to go.

Here are a few more maps.
This one (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ty9ssde38t9stj4) is just a rough look at incorporating ruins into the design.

I tried to make the cells happen here. Rotv&2castle (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?1exehhnqw0nqj6c)

More cells. Rotv&3castle (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?8mcg63dw88mxx83)

Had to see what it looked looked walled in. Rotv&4castle (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?fijxhfgtr66tdx0)

Let me know what you think. I think we can get a decent looking map with cells with just two Castle sets and a RotV. Still a lot left from RotV if we want more grass/terrain. We could add another set for flavor also.
Adding to the front of the building is also an option.

I guess what I need to know is if this is close enough to continue with or should we try tweaking YK's(which looks awesome) or re-start from scratch?

[IAmBatman]

I like the two Castle set the most of those, but it still feels like it's missing something. Hard to put my finger on it.

I think that's the closest I've seen yet, though!

[Yodaking]

Perhaps this will give you some more ideas. I'm not particularly pleased with the overall result but some aspects of it might be useful. Ended up abandoning the circle cell concept in favor of just trying to make a cell block type of building with the requested highlights.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/yodaking/Heroscape/C3G%20Maps/ArkhaminChaos-TopView_zps0eb2b69b.jpg

12 violet start zone spots for 3 squads of Inmates. The 2 teal start zones in the inner room would be Joker & Dr. Arkham. The other 3 teal start zones for 3 insane heros, 2 still locked up, 1 freed, & 1 empty cell where the Joker was. The 3 glyphs would be some type of door object that requires opening. Front gate has roof that can be moved onto and over, the rest of the walls were left uncapped. 6 yellow start zones on a cliff for Bane and his buddies. 24 blue start zones for the cops. Threw some Shadow tiles along the back wall and between the cliff and Arkham outside wall.

While the virtual builder lets you place the ruins where they are at, they might not sit right when built in real life. They do make for nice divider walls on the cells though. Used 2 Castle sets, 2 Dungeon sets, & 1 RotV. You can swap out the rock base where the cops are for grass if you so choose, I was just trying to make it darker like Smithy requested.

[IAmBatman]

If you're going to use all of those dungeon sets, it's a shame not to take advantage of the rock outcroppings to provide some atmosphere.

[Smithy Winfred]

Perhaps this will give you some more ideas. I'm not particularly pleased with the overall result but some aspects of it might be useful. Ended up abandoning the circle cell concept in favor of just trying to make a cell block type of building with the requested highlights.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/yodaking/Heroscape/C3G%20Maps/ArkhaminChaos-TopView_zps0eb2b69b.jpg

12 violet start zone spots for 3 squads of Inmates. The 2 teal start zones in the inner room would be Joker & Dr. Arkham. The other 3 teal start zones for 3 insane heros, 2 still locked up, 1 freed, & 1 empty cell where the Joker was. The 3 glyphs would be some type of door object that requires opening. Front gate has roof that can be moved onto and over, the rest of the walls were left uncapped. 6 yellow start zones on a cliff for Bane and his buddies. 24 blue start zones for the cops. Threw some Shadow tiles along the back wall and between the cliff and Arkham outside wall.

While the virtual builder lets you place the ruins where they are at, they might not sit right when built in real life. They do make for nice divider walls on the cells though. Used 2 Castle sets, 2 Dungeon sets, & 1 RotV. You can swap out the rock base where the cops are for grass if you so choose, I was just trying to make it darker like Smithy requested.

I really like this design, it looks a lot more open and detailed than the previous design. I do agree with bats though on the rock outcrops. Maybe on top of the building or outside the cliff. Also, if you're planning on using at least 3 insane heroes (my choices: Joker, Scarecrow and Zsasz) plus 3 squads of inmates plus Bane's crew, what will the cops have in order to match that? All I can think of is Batman, Gordon, and some beat cops (maybe Robin, but he is not supposed to be in this scene.)

[IAmBatman]

Was Robin not in that scene? I haven't read the book in quite a while.

I'd go with Two-Face ahead of Zsasz, just because Two-Face might not make a future appearance in the campaign, whereas Zsasz will get a scenario all his own. I'm also not sure I'd go Scarecrow, because it seems like a theme break for him to have his Fear Gas right away like that.

Maybe Joker, Two-Face, and Hugo Strange?

[Yodaking]

I'm not trying to replace T-Spinney or dictate scenario details to Bats here, just throwing out some concepts you can choose to incorporate or reject as you see fit. I had created 4 cells, so Joker + 3 more heroes seemed to fit well. I keep using 4 squads of Arkham inmates because that is what I own and 12 is an even number so I can distribute them around the map evenly. You can always make 12 start zone options with just 6 or 9 inmates, then decisions on where to set up come into play. I kind of assumed one of the Robins would be involved, plus if you were not too tied to the comic book, then Azrael or the Huntress might be some other Batman allies.

The outside is the part I like the least and you are right that the rock outcrops would help in that regard. The path leading up to the cliffs is fairly small as it is, but it could support a few rock outcrops.

Maybe it would help to flesh out the teams a little more. Then you would have a better idea of what kind of space is needed for each team to start on.

Bane 190
Hired Guns 130.....5 spaces, 320 points

Joker 190 or 140?
Arkham Inmates x2-x4 120-240 points
Low Level Insane Heros?
Mad Hatter 90
Firefly 120 - theme break? flying and shooting fire
Creeper 125
Floronic Man 135
Hugo Strange 155

Gordon 90 points
Alfred? 60 points
Beat Cops x2-x4 130-260 points
Bad Cops x2-x4 110-220 points
Batman 250 or 200 points
SHIELD Agents/Sniper (ie. State Police)?

If you would prefer to keep those details secret, you don't have to share them here. I'm not sure if I'll make any more Arkham maps at this point anyway. Just trying to help you guys along the process. I'll be out most of the day and night so I won't be around to continue spit balling ideas but here are a few thoughts that might help.

I feel as though a scenario will either have the teams & story dictate the map parameters, or the map parameters will dictate the teams & story. For my Rio scenario I started with a general theme, created the map I wanted, then expanded the theme & created teams that would fit my map. It looks like you want to go the opposite direction (which is a completely valid approach), so you start with a hard concept for the theme, create the armies & details (glyphs, DO, etc.) that will tell that story, then make the map based on the scenario details & armies you intend to use.

[Tornado]

Great points YK. I appreciate all your help and would be more than willing to hand this over to you or anyone. I am not skilled in map making. I got involved mainly because I thought my RPG background would be a big help in creating campaigns.
There are so many elements I did not anticipate, namely creating the maps(sounds dumb in hindsight).

The cool thing is Bats is not in a big hurry on this so we can let it simmer a bit. I think I will try tweak what I have and go from there. If I can get an OK map then I can start some loose playtesting and maybe that will lead to a better map.
I am fumbling in the dark here.

I guess the next step here is for Bats decide how we should continue. Do you want to keep this project somewhat under wraps and not in the public or should we ask to start a new thread here (if we are even that far)?

I already feel bad for hi-jacking this thread. Let me know.

I am pretty sure Robin was involved in that comic. The next time I am at the comic book store I will read through it again and get a cast list. I think YK is right on in the fact we need to figure out exactly what figures are involved here and that will progress the development of the map and the scenario.

[Smithy Winfred]

Was Robin not in that scene? I haven't read the book in quite a while.

I'd go with Two-Face ahead of Zsasz, just because Two-Face might not make a future appearance in the campaign, whereas Zsasz will get a scenario all his own. I'm also not sure I'd go Scarecrow, because it seems like a theme break for him to have his Fear Gas right away like that.

Maybe Joker, Two-Face, and Hugo Strange?

Hugo with Mutagenic Experiment would break theme just as much as Scarecrow, and is he even in the Batman story at this point, I'm not sure (I'm fairly certain he's not in Knightfall at all). Maybe Ivy, or Killer Croc? Ventriloquist is there as well, and although he's not insane, it would make for a good cheap third unit.

As for Robin, he definitely was not there, Batman intentionally told him not to come, so he stayed behind with Jean Paul. They even have a page or two of him complaining to JPV about Batman not letting him come.

Which Joker? I'd go with #2 for these scenarios, it seems to fit him more.

Also, the SWAT team will make a great addition to this scenario once they are released (I have tested 2 of them so far) much better addition than the SHIELD Sniper.

Another final thought, why is Bane even needed in this scenario? As far as I know, all he did was shoot a missile, deliver the guns, the he up and left. Nobody even knew who was responsible until later.

Just my humble thoughts on the matter

[Tornado]

Yeah I could see Bane just showing up in Round 1 and maybe 2.

[IAmBatman]

I'd go with Joker I for this scenario and save Joker II for future scenarios - to keep the cost of the villains down for one.

Floronic Man is a good idea. He would have been in Arkham at the time, and he won't be in future scenarios like Mad Hatter or Zsasz or Ventriloquist will (they'll all be featured in theirs, so I'd avoid them here - same with Ivy and Scarecrow). Floronic Man, Joker, Two-Face, and I'd have to figure out the other. I'm not sure Creeper was ever actually in Arkham, but he is a fun idea.

I believe Hugo Strange was actually dead in the comics during this storyline. Good point.

Might have to fudge the storyline and bring Robin and Azrael into this one, but we'll see! Really the teams don't necessarily need to be even, since the scenario win conditions won't be a defeat all thing at all.

I think we'll eventually have some Arkham Prison Guards as well, so they could factor in here. :-)

[Smithy Winfred]

I'd go with Joker I for this scenario and save Joker II for future scenarios - to keep the cost of the villains down for one.:-)

Isn't Joker I more expensive? I'd go with either one, but I'm very partial to the second one, I feel that it better reflects his personality in the Knightfall series in general.

[IAmBatman]

I'd go with Joker I for this scenario and save Joker II for future scenarios - to keep the cost of the villains down for one.:-)

Isn't Joker I more expensive? I'd go with either one, but I'm very partial to the second one, I feel that it better reflects his personality in the Knightfall series in general.

Oye, yes, I meant Joker II. Thanks for the correction. :-)

[Smithy Winfred]

So now we're looking at

Joker II (140)
Two Face (130)
3rd Insane hero (Floronic man sounds like the best at this point)
Arkham Inmates x(2-4)

VS

Commissioner Gordon
Batman II
5th precinct Beat Cops x2-3
SWAT team units (6-9 total units would work IMO)

Also, is there a plan at any point to make Harvey Bullock or Renee Montoya (pre-Question)? They appear at many times during the storyline and often play major roles. Renee most notably would be in the Zsasz portion.

Also, In my opinion, I'd like to keep this Knightfall campaign a bit under wraps until it's ready to be released. It's going to be awesome once it is done (not for a while) and I'f hate to spoil the surprise.

[IAmBatman]

I'd go Batman I for this scenario and let you "level up" later in the campaign.

There are several units I'm hoping will be made before I start working too hard on this campaign. :-)

I'm trying my best not to share too many details, but the think tank here is really helpful in starting to flesh some of this out. :-)

[Smithy Winfred]

I'd go Batman I for this scenario and let you "level up" later in the campaign.


Well how many scenarios do you plan on this being? Knightfall Part 1 (the half with Bruce Wayne) doesn't have a ton of times that I can see being turned into a scenario. (Mad Hatters Party, Zsasz's Hostages, Poison Ivy, and Joker + Scarecrow battle, then the battle against Bane). If anything, he should be getting weaker throughout the storyline, to emphasize his weakening mental and physical abilities.

[Tornado]

That may be one of the details Bats does not want to reveal.
It is not short though. :)

Here is some info from wiki:
The plot of "Knightfall" begins[note 2] with the master criminal Bane freeing all of the maximum-security inmates of Arkham Asylum, a notorious psychiatric facility in Gotham City. Aware that he would lose in a direct assault against Batman, Bane's plan consists of weakening Batman by forcing him to deal with the deadly villains simultaneously. Among the freed inmates, there are numerous high-profile villains, such as the Joker (who trapped Arkham's administrator Jeremiah Arkham), the Scarecrow, and Poison Ivy as well as many less known villains, such as the Mad Hatter, The Ventriloquist, Firefly, Cavalier, The Film Freak and Mr. Zsasz. The scenario creates a rift in the relationship between Robin and Batman, as Batman irrationally seeks to face the outbreak alone—in later issues, Robin asks Batman if he is even needed as his sidekick anymore. A later flashback to this time period (Showcase '93 #7-8) shows Batman pursuing Two-Face alone, being trapped and kidnapped to stand a mock trial; he is saved only by a rescue attempt from Robin.

So Firefly was in there and it sounds like Robin did show up.
Perhaps Robin saving Batman could be a 1b scenario.
It would be cool to use the map ion more than one scenario.

Thanks for the input Smithy and the sweet maps YK.

[Yodaking]

Also, In my opinion, I'd like to keep this Knightfall campaign a bit under wraps until it's ready to be released. It's going to be awesome once it is done (not for a while) and I'f hate to spoil the surprise.

Maybe the map department needs an inner sanctum as well.

[Smithy Winfred]

That may be one of the details Bats does not want to reveal.
It is not short though. :)

Here is some info from wiki:
The plot of "Knightfall" begins[note 2] with the master criminal Bane freeing all of the maximum-security inmates of Arkham Asylum, a notorious psychiatric facility in Gotham City. Aware that he would lose in a direct assault against Batman, Bane's plan consists of weakening Batman by forcing him to deal with the deadly villains simultaneously. Among the freed inmates, there are numerous high-profile villains, such as the Joker (who trapped Arkham's administrator Jeremiah Arkham), the Scarecrow, and Poison Ivy as well as many less known villains, such as the Mad Hatter, The Ventriloquist, Firefly, Cavalier, The Film Freak and Mr. Zsasz. The scenario creates a rift in the relationship between Robin and Batman, as Batman irrationally seeks to face the outbreak alone—in later issues, Robin asks Batman if he is even needed as his sidekick anymore. A later flashback to this time period (Showcase '93 #7-8) shows Batman pursuing Two-Face alone, being trapped and kidnapped to stand a mock trial; he is saved only by a rescue attempt from Robin.

So Firefly was in there and it sounds like Robin did show up.
Perhaps Robin saving Batman could be a 1b scenario.
It would be cool to use the map ion more than one scenario.

Thanks for the input Smithy and the sweet maps YK.

I am reading through the Knightfall series, and I think you might have miss-read the above text. Robin is in the series, and he does save Batman on a number of times, but he is not in the primary breakout. Firefly did break out, but he isn't shown unitl issue 3 or 4. I kind of like the idea of firefly however, since it will be difficult to give him a scenario all to himself (although some sort of city on fire map might look really cool). The Two-Face comic is actually a two part story in the second part of Knightfall, while Bruce is recieving medical attention after having his back broken in the end of part 1.

Bats, what scenarios were you thinking on making for the campaign? My favorites to see would be the Mad Hatter battle, the Joker/Scarecrow battle, and the JPV Batman + Anarky vs Scarecrow battle. Including of course, the final battles between Bane and Batman. As I said, I am reading through the books again (I own both) so I can give exact details on what did/did'nt happen.

p.s. the first of my Bane henchmen designs, Bird, is on the public design forum if any of you want to check it out.

[Tornado]

I guess that Robin incident happens in a later comic book, Showcase '93 #7&8, so not in the actual Knightfall series but supposedly it happens during the same timeline. I believe those issues are in the compilation I saw at the comic store. I will take a look next time I am there.

I am not sure how much more Bats wants to reveal here. I was hesitant to post anything to begin with but I knew I would never get anywhere on my own. I just lack the skill and experience making maps and that is fairly crucial. This has been great for me so far, I have learned a lot and I think we are getting close enough where I can start messing around with some playtests.

Thanks for all the help. We just need to figure out how we proceed from here.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'm not telling anything about the campaign as a whole here. Just giving you guys enough info to help with the map for the first scenario. :-)

Fwiw, Firefly appeared in Knightfall #6 and 8.

[Smithy Winfred]

Ok, so I started work on a basic design for the map. I have a green turf area in front of the asylum where the police start. The majority of the map is enclosed in a sort of fence/building created by castle walls interspersed with sections of low level battlements (it makes sense when you see it). It gives the battlefield a more open feel than I was seeing before. The main prison consists of 3 large cells where the Inmates start, with one space for the Joker outside of the cells. I'll try to upload a pic later if I can. I also did away with the cliff where Bane was, because I felt it wasn't really necessary for the scenario and it would never really get used (who wants to climb up an annoying 1 level mountain if you don't have to.)

[IAmBatman]

Looking forward to seeing it! :-)

[Smithy Winfred]

So here is the map design I've been working on. It requires one BftU, 2 castles, one RotV and one Conflict Begins.

Arkham Asylum (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=3935)

The police would start on the blue start zones and Batman would start on the teal space. The inmates and two insane figures would start on the red spaces, and Joker would start on the purple space. The main new feature in this map is the large fence around the Arkham complex. It makes for a pretty decent buffer between the two groups, while really building up the theme of a prison. I was actually thinking about adding extra start zones on top of the watchtowers for some sort of Arkham security figures.

p.s. I didn't add ladders b/c I was too lazy, but they would be on every watchtower.

[Tornado]

Very cool Smithy. That is a lot of sets though.

[IAmBatman]

I really like it, but my one concern is it will be a bit too easy for Beat Cops to bottleneck the only exits and stop Inmates from escaping the map. I think it's still workable, though, especially since the bad guys will likely outnumber the good guys.

I wonder if the door shouldn't be in place, though?

I'll play around with the startzones as necessary once I get into the scenario. I think this looks and works great for the scenario overall, though! :-)

For set number, is it possible to use the sets more efficiently? It doesn't look like that big of a map. Just wondering aloud - I'd rather use that many sets than lose what's a great look overall. Some maps just deserve lots of sets.

[Smithy Winfred]

I really like it, but my one concern is it will be a bit too easy for Beat Cops to bottleneck the only exits and stop Inmates from escaping the map. I think it's still workable, though, especially since the bad guys will likely outnumber the good guys.

I wonder if the door shouldn't be in place, though?

I'll play around with the startzones as necessary once I get into the scenario. I think this looks and works great for the scenario overall, though! :-)

For set number, is it possible to use the sets more efficiently? It doesn't look like that big of a map. Just wondering aloud - I'd rather use that many sets than lose what's a great look overall. Some maps just deserve lots of sets.

I actually made the choke point on purpose to make it so that we can overpower the Inmates team, although if you don like it, it wouldn't be too difficult to remove. The only problem then would be that the inmates might not have enough room in the cells.

As for the # of sets, the only one I can remove is the Conflict begins. The dungeon is needed for the cells, and I definitely want to keep the 2 castles. I guess I can change the road into sand (dirt road) and remove the odd concrete and asphalt tiles. That would bring the set # to 4, which is not unheard of for some of the maps we have designed in the past.

[Tornado]

That is what I was thinking Smithy. I figured 2 castle and a RotV was a minimum but that it would need another set for flavor.
Great work. I was contemplating larger holding cells myself.

Very cool. I take it the glyphs are cell doors?

[Smithy Winfred]

Yup, I was thinking joker would have to activate some sort of door mechanism to open them and let the prisoners free.

Also, does anyone have a link to the latest version of Virtualscape? Mine is super outdated.

[Tornado]

Here is a link to the website (http://didier.paradis.free.fr/virtualscape/english/).

[IAmBatman]

Cool. :up: Definitely see if you can pare it down a bit (while keeping all the castle and hopefully keeping the footprint about the same), and you've convinced me on the choke point. I'm really digging where this is at overall, though! :-)

[Yodaking]

Looks pretty good Smithy. The fenced in yard is a nice touch. If the storyline is that Bane blows a hole in the wall to initiate the prison break, I think I would connect one of the two side cells to the yard outside to represent that aspect and allow the some of the prisoners to move out into the yard in a second direction. Maybe just a single rock hex connecting the end of the 24 hex tile to the back of that cell.

I also agree that you should be able to drop the marvel set. The fence just might look a little strange without the concrete.

[Smithy Winfred]

Looks pretty good Smithy. The fenced in yard is a nice touch. If the storyline is that Bane blows a hole in the wall to initiate the prison break, I think I would connect one of the two side cells to the yard outside to represent that aspect and allow the some of the prisoners to move out into the yard in a second direction. Maybe just a single rock hex connecting the end of the 24 hex tile to the back of that cell.

I also agree that you should be able to drop the marvel set. The fence just might look a little strange without the concrete.

I was thinking I could just change them to rock or sand instead.

[Zettian Juggernaut]

Sacred Shine (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1793558#post1793558) is up.

[Yodaking]

For my first map as an official member I was thinking about trying to do something with my skyjack (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1700639&postcount=15) concept. Since not too many people will have the sky mat, I was just going to turn it into a plane crash themed board. Lots of options on where it could have landed though. So what would you all prefer to see.

Arctic (2 TT sets)
Mountain Tops (1 TT, 1 BftU, RotV rocks)
Beach Landing (RotV sand & water, TJ palm trees?)
Swamp (SotM, TJ bushes)
Grassy Field (RotV grass, RttFF trees?)

FYI the plane requires 2 Marvel sets.

[Smithy Winfred]

I think the Beach would be easiest, and the most thematic, definitely add Jungle (maybe as an optional aspect). Tundra could work as well, but thats a lot of Tundra. Maybe a building plane crash could work.

[Taeblewalker]

Beach with jungle seems best to me. i would try to make it with on RotV, one or two Ticalla Jungle and just the two Marvel sets.