C3G Map Maker's Discussion Thread

[quozl]

Personally, I find the M3G thing a bit silly, as that was a failed group and C3G has been a smash success, but whatever you guys need to make the work easier. :-P

It did pass 1-0, though. Perhaps we should change the rules so that a vote cannot pass unless it has at least 3 votes?

[IAmBatman]

Personally, I find the M3G thing a bit silly, as that was a failed group and C3G has been a smash success, but whatever you guys need to make the work easier. :-P

It did pass 1-0, though. Perhaps we should change the rules so that a vote cannot pass unless it has at least 3 votes?

That's why there's a minimum time period for votes. If people choose not to vote/can't vote, they have to live with the results.
That said, in order to overturn it, you'd only have to have a unanimous vote to do so (unanimous of people who actually vote, that is). So it could just as easily be overturned by another 1-0 vote. :-P

[A3n]

I totally missed even seeing the proposal for the name change. I would have voted Nay. We aren't mercenaries we make map without being requested, hell we (as a group) didn't even submit any maps for the F4 Master Set & that was a request. So the mercenary part definitely does not suit us. Having said that I do think we need our own identity so lets throw around a few names & then decide on 1 & put it to a vote to overturn that change.

One suggestion:
CMaST: Comic Map and Scenario Team

Cheers

[Taeblewalker]

I like A3N's idea, though I'm not sure of the best name.

[davidlhsl]

I like A3N's idea, though I'm not sure of the best name.

How about O.S.S.? That, I think, applies to everyone at one time or another, including myself.

O.S.S. = One Set Short :rofl:

[Hahma]

Professional Earth Navigators International Services. :p

Okay, seriously, how about

Comic World Builders International

[mad_wookiee]

Multiverse Terraforming Society

[IAmBatman]

Here's one A3n will like - New Utilitarian Terraform
Initializing Task-Oriented Underground Team

[A3n]

I like A3N's idea, though I'm not sure of the best name.

How about O.S.S.? That, I think, applies to everyone at one time or another, including myself.

O.S.S. = One Set Short :rofl:
:rofl:

[davidlhsl]

Professional Earth Navigators International Services. :p

Okay, seriously, how about

Comic World Builders International


Hahma, you had two posts today I wanted to rep, but couldn't. I have this habit of reading in acronyms, plus reading backwards. I guess it comes from my former subscription to Games & Puzzles Magazine that gave me the habit. Funniest moment was at Applebee's, when I discovered that desserts spelled backwards is stressed!

[Hidicul]

I like The Insane Map Builders. The maps you guys come up with are insane looking and insane to play on. Now if I could just everything I needed so I could stop having the hassel of proxying terrain.

[IAmBatman]

Well, if we're all Superscapers ... what about Superlandscapers?

[Griffin]

M3G is still my fav, these other suggestions are very silly to me. But I am willing to void the M3G vote out if you guy are, but only this once. If you want to vote, you will. Check in or check out. ;)

Oh, and I am back now. :D

[A3n]

Ok so far we have:

CMaST: Comic Map and Scenario Team
Comic World Builders International
Comic World Builders (added as a variation to above)
Multiverse Terraforming Society
New Utilitarian Terraform
Initializing Task-Oriented Underground Team
Insane Map Builders
Superlandscapers
M3G: Mercenary Map Makers Guild
Cartographers of Superscape
Team Alpha Super Awesome Cool Dynamite Wolf Squadron
C3G Map Makers

Ok so I will give it another couple of days for any more suggestions then I think it's best to do a preference type vote.

Cheers

[quozl]

Cartographers of Superscape

[mad_wookiee]

Team Alpha Super Awesome Cool Dynamite Wolf Squadron

[IAmBatman]

That doesn't make a cool acronym like Nut It Out, though ... :-P

[Griffin]

M3G is still my fav.

[Lord Pyre]

How about C3G Close Combat Grounds? Or C3G for short.


Oh, wait...

[quozl]

Yeah, C3G Map Makers was fine with me... :reapershrug:

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, C3G Map Makers was fine with me... :reapershrug:

:word: I mean, you're still part of the overall group, right ... ?

[Taeblewalker]

For ease of recognition, I'd like Cartographers of Superscape.

My heart is in Multiverse Terraforming Society, though.

[quozl]

Ok so I will give it another couple of days for any more suggestions then I think it's best to do a preference type vote.

Do you want to put up a poll? I wouldn't mind getting public opinion too.

Also, please include C3G Map Makers as one of the choices.

[A3n]

Ok so I will give it another couple of days for any more suggestions then I think it's best to do a preference type vote.

Do you want to put up a poll? I wouldn't mind getting public opinion too.

Also, please include C3G Map Makers as one of the choices.

Yep I think it's about time. BTW I already did add C3G Map Makers as a choice.

So now vote for your top 3 from the list below, in order of preference.


CMaST: Comic Map and Scenario Team
Comic World Builders International
Comic World Builders (added as a variation to above)
Multiverse Terraforming Society
New Utilitarian Terraform
Initializing Task-Oriented Underground Team
Insane Map Builders
Superlandscapers
M3G: Mercenary Map Makers Guild
Cartographers of Superscape
Team Alpha Super Awesome Cool Dynamite Wolf Squadron
C3G Map Makers
Comic Map Makers

My choices:
1
3
12

Cheers

[IAmBatman]

Is this poll for voting Map Makers only?

[A3n]

Is this poll for voting Map Makers only?

I say we make for all concerned parties. :D

Cheers

[quozl]

Is this poll for voting Map Makers only?

Since this isn't an oficial vote, please weigh in with your choices!

[IAmBatman]

In that case, I think 12 is the only real choice. I think you guys have your own identity in that you have different voters. You're still a part of the overall group and I'd hate you to lose that facet of your identity.

[Hidicul]

9, 12, and 13. I think those are the best on the list.

[Griffin]

9
1
4

[quozl]

12
10

[EternalThanos86]

Hey guys,
quozl kinda explained what has been going on with me. Unfortunately, work is going to continue to be busy, so I would like to offer the group a chance to have a solid membership of regularly participating members. I am not that as of late, so while I will continue to keep tabs on this thread as well as offer some constructive criticism, I request to be removed from the membership. I would encourage the group to not sit on their hands and simply be content with making maps, but to get the "product" out to the community.

If I could vote, I would choose 12 because it lends the credibility and brand-name biggness of the C3G to the efforts of this group.

Long live the C3G!
~ET86

[Griffin]

I am seeing the overwhelming love for the C3G title, so how about the late entry of C3G MD?

[IAmBatman]

And this from a former member/leader of M3G. :-)

[EternalThanos86]

And this from a former member/leader of M3G. :-)

Probably why I want to stay away from it. That group, like the BoM, is dead. Necromancy is not my thing. Fresh names means fresh starts!

[mad_wookiee]

11.

....What?


Ok, 12.

[IAmBatman]

11 is pretty frickin' sweet ...

[mad_wookiee]

TASACDWS. It flows nicely, right up until the end, when it kind of hits a brick wall.

[EternalThanos86]

TASACDWS. It flows nicely, right up until the end, when it kind of hits a brick wall.

I'm sure it's Welsh for something

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2903088642_413148db10.jpg

[A3n]

TASACDWS. It flows nicely, right up until the end, when it kind of hits a brick wall.

I'm sure it's Welsh for something

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2903088642_413148db10.jpg
:lol:

[mad_wookiee]

TASACDWS. It flows nicely, right up until the end, when it kind of hits a brick wall.

I'm sure it's Welsh for something

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2903088642_413148db10.jpg

You're probably right.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/travelog/welsh_english%20sign.jpg

[quozl]

Ok, so all 3 proposals passed (the first two due to time):

1. We need to add to our rules that we never release a map or scenario until we have finished the PDF and rebuilt the entire thing from start to finish just to be sure nothing was accidentally changed. It is recommended this be someone other than the person who first built the map.

2. We will call ourselves M3G (Mercenary Map Makers Guild).

3. All votes should be taken in the C3G Map Discussion thread, except for those pertaining to specific maps, which should take place in the map's individual thread with a notification posted in the C3G Map Discussion thread.

It seems the majority would like to continue to be called C3G Map Makers but the other two proposals should be added to the rules in the first few posts.

[A3n]

So that was long enough for people to have their say so a total of 7 votes.

First preference votes went:
1 - CMaST: Comic Map and Scenario Team
2 - M3G: Mercenary Map Makers Guild
4 - C3G Map Makers

Second preference for the lone voter of CMasT went to a name that didn't make it first round. So the third preference for that went to C3G Map Makers.

So the total votes was
2 - M3G: Mercenary Map Makers Guild
5 - C3G Map Makers

So I propose we change the name of our group back to C3G Map Makers.

Cheers

[quozl]

yea

[Taeblewalker]

Yea

[mad_wookiee]

Yea

[Griffin]

Yea, but the first proposal to change the name was nullified.

[quozl]

Yea, but the first proposal to change the name was nullified.

And that makes the proposal to change it back unaminous too.

Griffin, can you update the first few posts with these new rules we voted on?

1. We need to add to our rules that we never release a map or scenario until we have finished the PDF and rebuilt the entire thing from start to finish just to be sure nothing was accidentally changed. It is recommended this be someone other than the person who first built the map.

2. All votes should be taken in the C3G Map Discussion thread, except for those pertaining to specific maps, which should take place in the map's individual thread with a notification posted in the C3G Map Discussion thread.

[Griffin]

Yea, but the first proposal to change the name was nullified.

And that makes the proposal to change it back unaminous too.

Griffin, can you update the first few posts with these new rules we voted on?

1. We need to add to our rules that we never release a map or scenario until we have finished the PDF and rebuilt the entire thing from start to finish just to be sure nothing was accidentally changed. It is recommended this be someone other than the person who first built the map.

2. All votes should be taken in the C3G Map Discussion thread, except for those pertaining to specific maps, which should take place in the map's individual thread with a notification posted in the C3G Map Discussion thread.
Thanks for the reminder. Done. :D

[quozl]

Freak Show Alley (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1106149), by A3n

This has been renamed to Crime Alley and has been added to the Books today so can be taken off the front page.

[A3n]

I am still interested in map designing, just that I haven't been struck by inspiration lately. But I have had it at the back of my mind. :D

Cheers

[quozl]

I am still interested in map designing, just that I haven't been struck by inspiration lately. But I have had it at the back of my mind. :D

Cheers

Do you have a PDF made of your interior of Latveria Castle? That looks totally amazing and my daughter is begging me to build it.

[IAmBatman]

Griff was telling me he was wanting a PDF for that one as well.

[A3n]

Since Quozl asked nicely I'll get to it :p.

[quozl]

Since Quozl asked nicely I'll get to it :p.

Just built it! Thanks!

[Taeblewalker]

I think Savage Land (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29388) is ready for a vote.

[Griffin]

I think Savage Land (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29388) is ready for a vote.
I would vote NO right now. I think it could use a bit more tweaking for playability purposes (look at my comment on the choke points).

[quozl]

I'd like to do a scenario for every new C3G "wave" release. Would the rest of you be on-board for that?

[Griffin]

I'd like to do a scenario for every new C3G "wave" release. Would the rest of you be on-board for that?
I would be against any ONE person doing something like that. I would be on board with you if you want US to work on a scenario for each wave, as that would be a great way for us to use our Scenario Power :D and it would be in the same collaborative spirit as everything else C3G related. But no one man stand show. And I can tell you that the Heroes would not like it either. But I am assuming that you mean:
I'd like for us to do a scenario for every new C3G "wave" release. Would the rest of you be on-board for that?In which case I would say "Yes". :D:up: Great idea.

[Griffin]

OH, and we could start with the previous Wave releases.

[quozl]

Yeah, us would be preferable. But if people would rather not, I'll do it myself in my personal thread. That's what I meant!

The last wave release was "Shadow of the Bat", right?

So we should make a scenario that includes those 5 figures: Robin, Alfred, Penguin, Harley Quinn, and Black Mask.

With those guys, I'd like to see a scenario on our Carnival of Carnage map.

Opinions?

[Griffin]

I am thinking that it may be difficult to create scenarios that showcase each figure from each wave as most of these Waves are going to be all Heroes or all Villains.

[A3n]

I am thinking that it may be difficult to create scenarios that showcase each figure from each wave as most of these Waves are going to be all Heroes or all Villains.
Yes but we could include previous released figures also, as long as the focus was on the wave figures. Oh & I too think it's a good idea :D.

Cheers

[johnny139]

I did up a four-player scenario for Shadow of the Bat where a Vigilante Army (with Robin and Alfred) fought against a loosely-aligned team of three players - one with Penguin + Street Thugs, Black Mask + Street Thugs, and Joker + Harley. They need to work together to kill the good guys, but there's a Glyph of Loot that all three are fighting over, and need to be holding at the end to win the game.

Just in case you were in need of an idea. :2cents:

[Taeblewalker]

I like these ideas a lot.

[Griffin]

I did up a four-player scenario for Shadow of the Bat where a Vigilante Army (with Robin and Alfred) fought against a loosely-aligned team of three players - one with Penguin + Street Thugs, Black Mask + Street Thugs, and Joker + Harley. They need to work together to kill the good guys, but there's a Glyph of Loot that all three are fighting over, and need to be holding at the end to win the game.

Just in case you were in need of an idea. :2cents:
Sounds like a great place to start to me. Thanks.

[IAmBatman]

If you're going to do a scenario for each wave, shouldn't you really start with the X-Men wave and then go Brave and the Bold, and move on from there?
If you guys are serious about your petitions, by the way, you're going to have a LOT of scenario work on your hands ... Hope you're up for it, Griff, and that you're willing to train some others to be able to work as well on scenarios as you do. I'd hate to see a situation where there was an expectation for the group to produce a ton of scenarios and all the burden was on you to make sure they were up to C3G standards.

[johnny139]

Oh, and one interesting scenario for Wave 1 that I've been tossing around in my head.

Takes place on a city map of some kind. Three armies - X-Men, Brotherhood, and Sentinels + Civilians (and other humans if you want to open it a bit). The Brotherhood is attacking the Humans and Sentinels. The X-Men want to stop the Brotherhood and protect the Civilians. The Civilians and Sentinels are attacking both teams of Mutants indiscriminately.

X-Men have to destroy the Brotherhood, Brotherhood has to destroy the Civilians/Sentinels, Sentinels have to defeat both (and thus I imagine they'd have a point lead; maybe 450/450/700?). Could be fun.

[IAmBatman]

We were throwing around an idea for a Sentinel Factory scenario back before we shed scenarios from the X-Men release that would involve a conveyor belt with a Sentinel being manufactured on it that would keep new Sentinels coming after every one you destroyed (so you could play the scenario reusing the same sentinel figure).

[Taeblewalker]

We were throwing around an idea for a Sentinel Factory scenario back before we shed scenarios from the X-Men release that would involve a conveyor belt with a Sentinel being manufactured on it that would keep new Sentinels coming after every one you destroyed (so you could play the scenario reusing the same sentinel figure).

The heroes would have to destroy the Master Mold glyph, I presume? Like the monster generators in the video game Gauntlet?

[IAmBatman]

Something along those lines, yeah. :-) Some sort of general "computer" that could be represented by a glyph would be great, I think.

[quozl]

johnny, if you'd like on-board, I'll nominate you for membership.

[quozl]

Johnny said he's willing!

I propose to make Johnny139 a C3G mapmakers member!

[Griffin]

Yea

[Taeblewalker]

Yea!

[mad_wookiee]

Yea.

I'm traveling for work next week, so I will be unavailable for votes until next Friday.

[quozl]

Yea.

I'm traveling for work next week, so I will be unavailable for votes until next Friday.

Do you want to name someone to vote for you next week? I'd really like to get started on the "Shadow of the Bat" scenario.

[A3n]

Yea

[quozl]

Yea

That might have been the quickest vote we've had yet! Johnny is in!

Now, I'd like to see scenario ideas. I was thinking of a 2-player "rescue the hostage" scenario at the Carnival with Penguin, Black Mask, Harley Quinn, 3x Street Thugs, and Poison Ivy on one side and Alfred, Robin, Batman, Huntress, and 3x Beat Cops on the other.

[A3n]

Yea

That might have been the quickest vote we've had yet! Johnny is in!

Now, I'd like to see scenario ideas. I was thinking of a 2-player "rescue the hostage" scenario at the Carnival with Penguin, Black Mask, Harley Quinn, 3x Street Thugs, and Poison Ivy on one side and Alfred, Robin, Batman, Huntress, and 3x Beat Cops on the other.
I like the idea of using the Carnival map, just that I hope we can come up with something really creative for the scenario, rather then just a rescue the hostage, or at least something creative that the bad guys have to do instead of just defend.

No I don't have an idea yet but I am trying to think of one. Maybe if you LD it & start a thread where we can start brainstorming. But lets not move through brainstorming too fast this time.

Cheers

[Griffin]

I am a bit bored with "saving hostages" lately. How about disarm the Time Bombs on Gotham Bridge, and we use Wookie's Fast Lane?

Do we not wanna go back and do one of the 5 lost scenarios of the X-Men?

[Griffin]

I say Fast Lane because the Carnival requires a lot of terrain, which is great, but a lot of people won't be able to even build it.

[quozl]

I think the "Shadow of the Bat" release needs the bigger push. I wouldn't mind going back to do the X-Men later though.

P.S. Fast Lane also uses a lot of terrain. 3 road sets I think.

[quozl]

Actually, looking at our casual maps, only two don't require a lot of terrain: Ruins of Heroes Past and Sewer Entrance.

I think Sewer Entrance would work really well.

Anyway, I guess we can decide all that in the scenario thread.

I propose that we create a scenario showcasing the figures in the C3G "Shadow of the Bat" release.

[Griffin]

Actually, looking at our casual maps, only two don't require a lot of terrain: Ruins of Heroes Past and Sewer Entrance.

I think Sewer Entrance would work really well.
I like that one too. :up:

[quozl]

Actually, looking at our casual maps, only two don't require a lot of terrain: Ruins of Heroes Past and Sewer Entrance.

I think Sewer Entrance would work really well.
I like that one too. :up:

How do you like my proposed figures?

P.S. We also need Johnny listed as a member.

EDIT: Copying this here in case people miss it on the previous page: I propose that we create a scenario showcasing the figures in the C3G "Shadow of the Bat" release.

[Griffin]

Actually, looking at our casual maps, only two don't require a lot of terrain: Ruins of Heroes Past and Sewer Entrance.

I think Sewer Entrance would work really well.
I like that one too. :up:

How do you like my proposed figures?

P.S. We also need Johnny listed as a member.

EDIT: Copying this here in case people miss it on the previous page: I propose that we create a scenario showcasing the figures in the C3G "Shadow of the Bat" release.


OK, but I think we should decide on the Theme and setting/map first.

On it....

Yea

[Griffin]

J-honey is up. Welcome aboard. :toast:

[johnny139]

Glad to be here. In that case, I'll use my inaugural post to vote Yea for for the "Shadow of the Bat" scenario.

And I'd definitely be in favor of Sewer Entrance for the scenario... if only because I can actually build it. :lol:

[A3n]

Welcome aboard Johnny.

Yea

Cheers

[quozl]

I just built Sewer Entrance this morning and the first thing that came to mind was an escape scenario where Batman, Robin, Alfred, (and friends?) are on the lower level trying to get through all the baddies (Black Mask, Penguin, Street Thugs, Harley Quinn (and an insane friend) to escape with their lives somewhere on the upper level.

What do you all think?

[Griffin]

Batman Robin and Alfred aren't the "scared running type" though.

Maybe this could be a 3 way battle:
Batman, Robin, and Alfred
VS
Black Mask, Penguin, and Street Thugs
VS
Joker, Poison Ivy, and Harley Quinn

[quozl]

A 3-way battle would be cool. But I wasn't thinking about "scared running". More like they had to get somewhere fast (and escorting Alfred for some reason) and the baddies were trying to stop them.

[Griffin]

Well what do you prefer?

A - 2 player

or

B - 3 player

I am on the fence a bit about a 3 player, but it could show our diversity and how we don't have to do the same thing all the time.
The only problem I have with the 2 player currently is that I don't care much for the story.

[quozl]

What would be the story for the 3-player scenario?

[Griffin]

What would be the story for the 3-player scenario?
Good guys try and bring in the crazies back to Arkham, while the Street Gangs try to protect their turn and run the vigilantes and crazies off.

[quozl]

What would be the story for the 3-player scenario?
Good guys try and bring in the crazies back to Arkham, while the Street Gangs try to protect their turn and run the vigilantes and crazies off.

So good guys win if they defeat the crazies, crazies win if they defeat the good guys, and street gangs win if they defeat both? Sounds really good but the details need working out.

[Griffin]

What would be the story for the 3-player scenario?
Good guys try and bring in the crazies back to Arkham, while the Street Gangs try to protect their turn and run the vigilantes and crazies off.

So good guys win if they defeat the crazies, crazies win if they defeat the good guys, and street gangs win if they defeat both? Sounds really good but the details need working out.Ha, well details have to be worked out regardless of what we do, I thought we were just doing some simple brainstorming as to what direction we should go in.

Design by committee doesn't work, so we need an LD with a CLEAR idea and thread, then we can comment on it and critique as we go.

[quozl]

Ha, well details have to be worked out regardless of what we do, I thought we were just doing some simple brainstorming as to what direction we should go in.

Design by committee doesn't work, so we need an LD with a CLEAR idea and thread, then we can comment on it and critique as we go.

Yes, I'm forming ideas now so all the brainstorming I can get helps me. Everyone, please let me know all your ideas!

[Griffin]

Odin's Colosseum (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32312)

We have a scenario right now, and we are only allowed to submit them one at a time. I think we should finish it up if possible. All we need to do to finish it is:

Have a PDF made
Have the map built from the PDFAnd in that order. I have already tested it with several other people, so we just need to verify the actual map build, then we can send this to be tested in the Main Frame.

[quozl]

We need another member to playtest it too.

Anyway, we're a long way from submitting this Shadow of the Bat scenario. First, we must have 2 C3G Map Makers members playtest the scenario and agree that it is ready and finalized to the best of our ability before sending it to main C3G forum.

[Griffin]

We need another member to playtest it too.

Anyway, we're a long way from submitting this Shadow of the Bat scenario. First, we must have 2 C3G Map Makers members playtest the scenario and agree that it is ready and finalized to the best of our ability before sending it to main C3G forum.
I thought we were going to count the 5 other people I played with. I don't have a problem waiting for someone else here with the ability taking the initiative to do the last test, though it looks like it is going to take a long time :p, but we can't divide what little efforts we have to chase another scenario project. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. ;)

[quozl]

I don't know if anyone was aware we needed another C3G mapmaker to test Odin's Colosseum. I know I wasn't! However, I might be able to test it today.

[Taeblewalker]

For the Bat scenario, how about this:

City Streets map - 3 Players
Black Mask and two squads of Street Thugs are trying to get away with something stolen from the bank (the warehouse ruin).

Alas, the someone hired the Riddler to take out Black Mask, who has been getting in the way. Black Mask is carrying a money bag with a bomb in it (use a Marvel set Glyph), and doesn't know it! The Riddler, being the egomaniac that he is, sent Batman and Robin a clue, and the Dynamic Duo have arrived to put a stop to everything.

The Riddler is on hand, however, to make sure the job is finished. He and his single squad of Street Thugs will try to finish off Black Mask, and anyone who gets in their way. If Batman and Robin can defeat Black Mask by round 5, they capture him and any remaining Street Thugs that follow him give up. If Black Mask is defeated by the Riddler and his Street Thugs, Batman has failed and the Riddler wins.

Problem is, the streets are crowded with two squads of Civilians. Also, a squad of 5th Precinct Beat Cops is on hand, and they are trying to help out! The Batman player may control these cops, but if any of them put the final wound on Black Mask, it's over - these guys shoot to kill.

In any case, at the end of Round 5, the glyph will explode unless deactivated (6-20 on a 20-sided die). Anyone adjacent to the glyph will take four automatic wounds; anyone two spaces away whose height is no more than 2 lower than the level of the glyph and whose base is no more than two levels higher than the glyph, receive two autmatic wounds.

Black Mask wins if he defeats two other two teams and then has time to check the validity of Batman's shouted warning and deactivate the bomb. Batman and Robin win if they capture the Black Mask and The Riddler. The Riddler wins if he kills Black Mask and can escape off the map or defeat Batman and Robin.

[johnny139]

My thoughts on the SotB Scenario.

First of all, we have to use all five figures - and related figures. That means we need Robin and Alfred (with Batman), Penguin and Black Mask (with Street Thugs), and Harley Quinn (with Joker or Poison Ivy). To keep things conceptually pure, I'd like to stick with just figures from the World's Finest Master Set and Shadow of the Bat - if this was a "real" release, they'd assume the player already has a Master Set, so the only extra figures would be from the pack being sold.

So, based off this, we could divide up factions in one of four ways (all armies off the top of my head; all just shots in the dark):

Two Player ~ Robin, Alfred vs. Penguin, Black Mask, Harley Quinn. For this, we'd probably need pretty big armies on both sides. Batman (200), Robin (320), Alfred (380), Catwoman (525), 5th Precinct Beat Cops x3 (710) vs. Penguin (120), Black Mask (220), Joker (410), Harley Quinn (540), Street Thugs x2 (690).
Three Player A ~ Robin, Alfred vs. Penguin, Black Mask vs. Harley Quinn. We could probably shrink things a bit for this one. Say, Batman (200), Robin (320), Alfred (380) vs. Penguin (120), Black Mask (220), Street Thugs x2 (370) vs. Joker (190), Harley Quinn (320) though that gives the Insane Team a disadvantage we'd need to compensate for.
Three Player B ~ Robin, Alfred vs. Penguin vs. Black Mask; Harley Quinn + Joker as Wildcard. Batman (200), Robin (320), Alfred (380) vs. Penguin (120), Street Thugs x2 (270) vs. Black Mask (100), Street Thugs x2 (250); Joker and Harley would be wildcards that both Penguin and Black Mask can place Order Markers on (or something).
Four Player ~ Robin, Alfred vs. Penguin vs. Black Mask vs. Harley Quinn. Batman (200), Robin (320), Alfred (380), Catwoman (525), 5th Precinct Beat Cops x5 (850) vs. Penguin (120), Street Thugs x3 (270) vs. Black Mask (100), Street Thugs x2 (250) vs. Joker (190), Harley Quinn (320). The latter three teams would be loosely aligned, and each need to defeat the first team, but each have their own goals, as well.Honestly, I think all of them would be fun.

Now, taking into account the characters we have.

Robin ~ In a Gotham Scenario with Robin, you need Batman; thus, we'll need to include Batman in some capacity.
Alfred ~ Alfred doesn't generally tag along for adventures, so we'd need to figure out some way to work him in. Maybe things start off at a gala ball where Alfred accompanies Bruce Wayne before the scenario begins, for example.
Penguin, Black Mask ~ Of course, this adds an organized crime aspect - we'd need to use Street Thugs to some extent, but we could either have them on the same team or as rival crime lords.
Harley Quinn ~ Of course, in a Batman scenario in Gotham... it only makes sense to add in The Joker.So, that's my pitch.

[IAmBatman]

I'm thinking Johnny was a good addition to the map group! :thumbsup:

[Hahma]

Yeah, for a youngster, he's been around the block a few times and seems to have his stuff together. If I remember correctly I thought he wrote some good fiction back in the day, but I can't be sure it was him. Great addition to the team fellas. :thumbsup:

[Taeblewalker]

With all of that said, should it be a multi-board/multi-game scenario?

[quozl]

With all of that said, should it be a multi-board/multi-game scenario?

Not sure what you're thinking about but I'd like to hear more.

Thanks Johnny, your post echoes a lot I've been thinking about (although I was thinking of Huntress and Poison Ivy too.) I knew you were a good nomination!

[johnny139]

I was thinking Poison Ivy myself, because she'd be a cheaper alternative to The Joker for Harley to team up with, but I figure she'd be better suited to a/the Wave 2 Scenario. Personally, I prefer Master Set + Wave 3 for the units involved, but I wouldn't put up a fight if you'd all like to include some others.

[quozl]

Huntress and Poison Ivy were both done during the ala carte phase and so neither got any advertisement. I'd like to see them get some love in a scenario.

[Hahma]

Huntress and Poison Ivy were both done during the ala carte phase and so neither got any advertisement. I'd like to see them get some love in a scenario.

What pray tell kind of scenarios are you intending? I hope they are suitable for our young members. :D

[quozl]

There will be a lot of camera time watching the fireplace....

[Taeblewalker]

With all of that said, should it be a multi-board/multi-game scenario?

Not sure what you're thinking about but I'd like to hear more.

I was thinking that in the first game, Batman and Co. would be trying to stop Black Mask, then move on to the person who tried setting up Black Mask in the first place, then eventually deal with whomever hired him. The first room would be a bank robbery in the city. The second would be tracking the second villain to his hide-out in the sewers nearby, and finding out that he was just a hired gun. Finally, when Bruce, Dick and Alfred are attending a social function (as someone mentioned earlier), the villain who paid to get Black Mask out of the way, took something from his lair while he was dead/in jail (depending on the first scenario's outcome), and now starts wreaking havoc in the middle of Gotham's social elite. I'm thinking somewhat along the lines of Red Hood from the recent movie hijacking the shipment of Amazo the android, or something along those lines.

Thanks Johnny, your post echoes a lot I've been thinking about (although I was thinking of Huntress and Poison Ivy too.) I knew you were a good nomination!

Ditto!

[IAmBatman]

There's no Red Hood or Amazo cards yet, though. :-P

[quozl]

Something like the D&D Campaign rules for successive scenarios? While I think that would be really awesome, I don't know if the group would be willing to put in that amount of time to pull that off.

What do you say, group?

[johnny139]

While I think a scenario like that would be awesome, I think it would be better suited for one of the bigger waves - like, Brave and the Bold, which has sixteen or so different units in it. Shadow of the Bat is easy to split into two armies. But Brave and the Bold, you could have all sorts of cool stuff Lex Luthor as the big bad, with the Justice League fighting through two or three maps of mind-controlled villains and inter-dimensinal mercenaries and such.

[IAmBatman]

I say start off slowly ... like finalizing the scenario you're working on currently (the one Griff did the LD work for) and then trying a few one shot scenarios before working up to a campaign.
I think a campaign (or several) would be great, I just don't want to see you guys bite off more than you can chew right away and sputter out.

[Griffin]

Something like the D&D Campaign rules for successive scenarios? While I think that would be really awesome, I don't know if the group would be willing to put in that amount of time to pull that off.

What do you say, group?
The Mainframe specifically authorized us to create stand alone scenarios, not campaigns, and it is more work involved to create a campaign than maybe you realize.

[Griffin]

I say start off slowly ... like finalizing the scenario you're working on currently (the one Griff did the LD work for) and then trying a few one shot scenarios before working up to a campaign.
I think a campaign (or several) would be great, I just don't want to see you guys bite off more than you can chew right away and sputter out.
Which is why we (Heroes) only authorized stand alone scenarios.

[quozl]

Something like the D&D Campaign rules for successive scenarios? While I think that would be really awesome, I don't know if the group would be willing to put in that amount of time to pull that off.

What do you say, group?
The Mainframe specifically authorized us to create stand alone scenarios, not campaigns, and it is more work involved to create a campaign than maybe you realize.

Oh, I realize it's a ton of work. I just wanted to see how many of us were crazy enough to want to do it. I definitely think we should crawl before we walk.

[Taeblewalker]

Let's start crawling!

[quozl]

Just a thought: maybe we're doing this in the wrong order.

Let's not think in Heroscape terms at all.

We need a story that involves Penguin, Black Mask, Harley Quinn, Robin, and Alfred.

Don't think about maps or glyphs or players. Let's just think of a story that involves all 5 of those characters. Then we'll figure out a map and game that fit the story.

[Griffin]

Just a thought: maybe we're doing this in the wrong order.

Let's not think in Heroscape terms at all.

We need a story that involves Penguin, Black Mask, Harley Quinn, Robin, and Alfred.

Don't think about maps or glyphs or players. Let's just think of a story that involves all 5 of those characters. Then we'll figure out a map and game that fit the story.
I think we have made some good work on the brainstorming though. You want to scrap our progress and start a fresh???? If so, that is exactly the type of thing why the Heroes went private; backpedaling indecisive muck that never actually accomplishes anything other than endless debates.

I think we should just listen to each others ideas now, and when the time is right, we will start a new scenario thread with quozl as the LD (which is starting to scare me) and we will work on things from there just as we would with anything else.

[quozl]

You want to scrap our progress and start a fresh????

Not at all!

I want to find a great story and then use the ideas we've generated in this thread to design a scenario. I think we're all trying to find a good scenario and then trying to figure out a backstory for it and I think that might be a backwards way to go about it.

So can you think of a good story?

[Griffin]

You want to scrap our progress and start a fresh????

Not at all!

I want to find a great story and then use the ideas we've generated in this thread to design a scenario. I think we're all trying to find a good scenario and then trying to figure out a backstory for it and I think that might be a backwards way to go about it.

So can you think of a good story?
I have always tried to avoid that approach actually. :lol:

The reason being is that if the game rules are subtle enough and not too forceful because you are trying to cram a story down the players throats, the subtle game will allow the well designed cards to actually tell a large part of the story for you. That is why, IMO, understanding the cards well is the biggest part of writing great/subtle scenarios for them.

[quozl]

The problem I have is that I understand the cards but not the characters (not having the huge comics background that you have).

That's why I need someone who has that background to think of a good story that fits the characters. I can then translate that into a Heroscape scenario.

[Griffin]

The problem I have is that I understand the cards but not the characters (not having the huge comics background that you have).

That's why I need someone who has that background to think of a good story that fits the characters. I can then translate that into a Heroscape scenario.
Well like I said, the cards really tell the story when played. Harley is obssesed with Insane people :check:, Penguin is self centered and greedy :check:, Robin is a great accomplice for Vigilantes :check:, Alfred cares for Vigilantes and Sidekicks :check:, Black Mask has no compassion on life even his own allies :check:. Really it is all there in the cards, and the written story/special rules should compliment them but not force anything too too heavy on them.

Criminals do criminal things and they can all work together or have a criminal war, and the Vigilantes/support characters are ever vigilant in their fight against crime.

Those are the basics really.

[Taeblewalker]

To answer Quozl's question, I would say that Black Mask is a hardcore but pragmatic crime lord who is prone to fits of rage when he doesn't get his way, while Penguin, if I understand correctly, these days runs his criminal empire from his posh Ice Lounge in a more elegant, but no less ruthless, manner. Harley Quinn can easily be dropped into the mix as someone who is doing the Joker's dirty work, throwing a monkey wrench into the doings of heroes and criminals alike.

If you really want Alfred along for the ride, you need a reason why A) things are going down at Wayne Mano, B) he gets caught up in something while out on an errand in the City, or C) he is at a social function of some kind, either with Bruce and Tim or on his own, perhaps representing the Wayne estate, when the **** hits the fan.

[johnny139]

If you really want Alfred along for the ride, you need a reason why A) things are going down at Wayne Mano, B) he gets caught up in something while out on an errand in the City, or C) he is at a social function of some kind, either with Bruce and Tim or on his own, perhaps representing the Wayne estate, when the **** hits the fan.

Alfred is definitely our centerpiece for concept - there's only a handful of occasions where he'd be involved, so, our storyline would have to be based around that.

If we're going for a simpler scenario, I think a Union of Crime (with Black Mask, Penguin, and Joker uniting as a crime team) against Batman story would be best. If we're going for a more complex one, a turf war between Black Mask and Penguin with Batman and Harley hanging on for the ride would be best.

[Griffin]

Hey, Alfred saves Batman a lot, and we have reflected that on his card. What if Batman starts the game with 4 wounds on his card and in the city, and then Alfred has to find him and heal him up. :reapershrug:

The only problem with these types of ideas though, is it is essentially rewriting the powers on the card, because those powers played out are what tell the story, with very little need, if any, from a narrator.

[IAmBatman]

I think the number one reason C3G scenarios are difficult to do well is just what Griff is mentioning here - the cards are so packed with theme and interesting mechanics that they already play a lot like scenarios with your favorite characters! :-)
So it's hard to find good scenario rules that add to that without overwhelming it in complexity and drowning out the elegance of design.

[quozl]

How's this?

Batman, Robin, and Alfred are attending an event for the Wayne Enterprises. Harley Quinn is also there (with Poison Ivy) and steals the plans for the newest Wayne Enterprises technology (from Alfred's pocket), running to the protection of the street thugs. Batman, Robin, and Alfred run after them and encounter not only Harley and Ivy but also the street thugs with Pengiun and Black Mask. Harley and Ivy open up a manhole cover and jump down just as Huntress and some cops show up. Now Batman must try to recover the plans before Harley can find a place in the sewers to lose him.

[GreyOwl]

I think the number one reason C3G scenarios are difficult to do well is just what Griff is mentioning here - the cards are so packed with theme and interesting mechanics that they already play a lot like scenarios with your favorite characters! :-)
So it's hard to find good scenario rules that add to that without overwhelming it in complexity and drowning out the elegance of design.

This is true. I've been working on some scenarios for some "side projects" (some superhero related, some not), and this really is one of the most difficult aspects. It would almost be easier to create the scenarios first, and then make the cards. But I wouldn't recommend that either, because then you run the risk of the cards not being versatile enough for stand-alone play.

[quozl]

How's this?

Batman, Robin, and Alfred are attending an event for the Wayne Enterprises. Harley Quinn is also there (with Poison Ivy) and steals the plans for the newest Wayne Enterprises technology (from Alfred's pocket), running to the protection of the street thugs. Batman, Robin, and Alfred run after them and encounter not only Harley and Ivy but also the street thugs with Pengiun and Black Mask. Harley and Ivy open up a manhole cover and jump down just as Huntress and some cops show up. Now Batman must try to recover the plans before Harley can find a place in the sewers to lose him.

Anyone?

[Taeblewalker]

Why are Penguin and Black Mask working together?

I can see a multi-player game where Player 1 is Batman and co, Player 2 is Penguin and his thugs trying to get the plans for himself (having been tipped off somehow), Player 3 is Black Mask and his thugs, trying the same thing as Penguin, and Player 4 is Harley and Ivy, both working for the Joker.

[johnny139]

I definitely like the aspect of a Gang War with Batman caught in the crossfire - like, playing off he heist at Wayne Enterprises, both Black Mask and Penguin have planned to steal the same technology, so all three (Mask, Penguin, and Batman) want to get their hands on it.

Not sure if the Insane Faction would be better suited for a fourth army or "shared" between Black Mask and Penguin, though. I really like the idea of both Criminals being able to take turns with him - one turn the Joker is shooting up the Penguin's goons, the next he's shooting up Black Mask's. That feels very Jokerish to me.

But, yeah, for the basic premise, I'd definitely be in support of it.

[1Mmirg]

FWIW, I love the idea of a solid 3 player scenario for the C3G. This one sounds fun to me.

[quozl]

So this is what I'm thinking:

Map: Sewer Entrance

3 players

Player 1: Batman, Robin, Alfred
Player 2: Penguin, 2x Street Thugs
Player 3: Black Mask, 2x Street Thugs

Card that both Player 2 and Player 3 can put order markers on: Harley Quinn.

Goal: To get a Unique Hero to pick up the Loot glyph Harley is carrying.

[IAmBatman]

Cool - a fight over a loot glyph. :-) I like it. It worked pretty well in that first scenario for World's Finest too.

[Griffin]

So this is what I'm thinking:

Map: Sewer Entrance

3 players

Player 1: Batman, Robin, Alfred
Player 2: Penguin, 2x Street Thugs
Player 3: Black Mask, 2x Street Thugs

Card that both Player 2 and Player 3 can put order markers on: Harley Quinn.

Goal: To get a Unique Hero to pick up the Loot glyph Harley is carrying.I also like the 3 player scenario. But, I am starting to get a bit tired of capture the loot scenarios, I think we can get more creative than that.

Instead of putting different orders on Harley Quinn (who is useless with no Insane bonding or after her bomb is gone, and the first player to take a turn with her and use her bomb will get the most value out of her), how about this:

Harley is hiding out in an underground location sulking about Mr J being locked up. Penguin and Black Mask are in a fight with each other over who will run Gotham, and Harley Quinn could be an alliance that each could possibly gain, but to gain her alliance, Penguin or Black Mask must first kill Batman, the one that Harley blames for Joker being locked up.

[quozl]

So it's a 3-way free-for-all with Harley going to the player who takes out Batman first?

P.S. I don't think she's useless, just very hard to kill, which is what I want her to be since you'd have to destroy her to get the Loot glyph. You're right about the bomb though. I'd probably take that power away for the scenario.

[johnny139]

I could definitely get behind that.

So, here's a concept.

Even without her "other half," Harley Quinn makes for a powerful ally. With the Joker in prison, she has only one thing on her mind: take down the Batman. Both the Penguin and Black Mask are gearing up for a full-scale turf war, and are desperate for any aid they can get. Both target the same gala ball in an attempt to draw the Batman out - a ball hosted by none other than Bruce Wayne. As the guests flee, he dons the cowl and swings in to action.

That would explain Alfred, give both Black Mask and Penguin a motive, and, I think, make for an interesting scenario. I guess we could say that Black Mask and the Penguin were both coordinating the attack from afar, rather than being at the actual ball, to explain why they're in a run-down neighborhood.

[Griffin]

I could definitely get behind that.

So, here's a concept.

Even without her "other half," Harley Quinn makes for a powerful ally. With the Joker in prison, she has only one thing on her mind: take down the Batman. Both the Penguin and Black Mask are gearing up for a full-scale turf war, and are desperate for any aid they can get. Both target the same gala ball in an attempt to draw the Batman out - a ball hosted by none other than Bruce Wayne. As the guests flee, he dons the cowl and swings in to action.

That would explain Alfred, give both Black Mask and Penguin a motive, and, I think, make for an interesting scenario. I guess we could say that Black Mask and the Penguin were both coordinating the attack from afar, rather than being at the actual ball, to explain why they're in a run-down neighborhood.
Sounds really cool to me.

At quozle, I would be against taking the bomb away from Harley. That is the type of thing me and a couple of other heroes have been warning about, trying to rewrite the cards because of trying to force a story... that is exactly what I was warning against. Harley having the bomb helps tell the story without having to say a word, because it is already on her card.

[quozl]

At quozle, I would be against taking the bomb away from Harley. That is the type of thing me and a couple of other heroes have been warning about, trying to rewrite the cards because of trying to force a story... that is exactly what I was warning against. Harley having the bomb helps tell the story without having to say a word, because it is already on her card.

Yeah, I think was going the easy way out there. I think it would be better if Harley was located on the battlefield where she couldn't use her bomb immediately but if you put enough order markers on her, you'd deserve to use her bomb on your opponent.

[Griffin]

At quozle, I would be against taking the bomb away from Harley. That is the type of thing me and a couple of other heroes have been warning about, trying to rewrite the cards because of trying to force a story... that is exactly what I was warning against. Harley having the bomb helps tell the story without having to say a word, because it is already on her card.

Yeah, I think was going the easy way out there. I think it would be better if Harley was located on the battlefield where she couldn't use her bomb immediately but if you put enough order markers on her, you'd deserve to use her bomb on your opponent.
I think we should abandon the idea of player 2 and 3 both being able to take turns with her... it is going to be a lot of clean up SPECIAL RULES text just to determine if she does/doesn't roll for leaving engagement attacks, if so who rolls it, if so who can they roll it against. Can she dodge an attack from a player that technically controls her partially. etc etc

The best idea I have seen so far, is that Penguin and Black Mask are fighting to kill Batman and gain Harley's alliance while Batman and co are trying to stop them all.

[quozl]

Not much in special rules as it was all done in the Crazy Troll scenario for the D&D set.

But I'm not beholden to it.

[Taeblewalker]

I'd be happy to see the scenario play out as discussed so far.

[1Mmirg]

I could definitely get behind that.

So, here's a concept.

Even without her "other half," Harley Quinn makes for a powerful ally. With the Joker in prison, she has only one thing on her mind: take down the Batman. Both the Penguin and Black Mask are gearing up for a full-scale turf war, and are desperate for any aid they can get. Both target the same gala ball in an attempt to draw the Batman out - a ball hosted by none other than Bruce Wayne. As the guests flee, he dons the cowl and swings in to action.

That would explain Alfred, give both Black Mask and Penguin a motive, and, I think, make for an interesting scenario. I guess we could say that Black Mask and the Penguin were both coordinating the attack from afar, rather than being at the actual ball, to explain why they're in a run-down neighborhood.

This plus this

The best idea I have seen so far, is that Penguin and Black Mask are fighting to kill Batman and gain Harley's alliance while Batman and co are trying to stop them all.

is what sounds best to me. I agree that it is better to use unit's full cards, whenever possible. Use the scenario to balance cards, not to change them.

Making Harley a prize is a great idea (reminds me of the original Mimring scenario in RotV, though in this case you really earn it, by taking out Bats). I think this one just needs some playtests to balance out points, work out any kinks that come in play.

Anyhow, just my two cents...

[Taeblewalker]

Give each criminal enough Street Thugs to fall a little shy of the Batman team, since each will be gunning for Batman.

[quozl]

Give each criminal enough Street Thugs to fall a little shy of the Batman team, since each will be gunning for Batman.

Yep, I'm thinking 2 squads each.

[Griffin]

Penguin (120), x2 Street Thugs (150) = 270 + Harley Quinn (130) = 400
Black Mask (100), x2 Street Thugs (150) = 250 + Harley Quinn (130) = 380
Batman (200), Robin (120), Alfred (60) = 380


This looks good to me. :up:

[quozl]

I wonder if gunning for Batman might be too much though. Maybe Robin instead?

[Griffin]

I wonder if gunning for Batman might be too much though. Maybe Robin instead?
What do you mean "too much"? Do you mean too difficult? Because it should be IMO, plus it makes more thematic sense to gun for Batman IMO.

[quozl]

Don't forget to vote for Odin's Colosseum!

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=32312

[quozl]

Please vote for Savage Land!

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29388

[tcglkn]

Are we ever gonna get some X-Men Scenarios? Griffin had some good great maps for them.

[Griffin]

Here is our member list:

A3N (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=4382)
quozl (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=3887)
Griffin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=5301)
johnny139 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=1062)
Taeblewalker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=94)
mad_wookiee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=5590)

Are we all happy with the involvement of everyone here?

[quozl]

Map in progress: X Marks The Spot (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33778)

[Griffin]

Map in progress: X Marks The Spot (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33778)
Thanks for linking that, and also for being so active in this group and quite frankly keeping it going. :toast:

[johnny139]

So where are we going with the Shadow of the Bat Scenario?

[quozl]

So where are we going with the Shadow of the Bat Scenario?

3 players on Sewer Entrance. Whoever kills Batman first gets Harley.

The hardest part is going to be figuring out starting positions.

Wanna take a crack at it?

As soon as Odin's Coliseum is finalized, we can vote on putting the next scenario up.

[mad_wookiee]

Here is our member list:

A3N (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=4382)
quozl (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=3887)
Griffin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=5301)
johnny139 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=1062)
Taeblewalker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=94)
mad_wookiee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=5590)

Are we all happy with the involvement of everyone here?
Hey Griffin -
I pm'ed you about 3 weeks ago asking to be moved to the inactive list. I'm too busy with other stuff through at least the end of the year and don't want to be a drag on stuff the group is doing. I'll check in after the holidays.
m_w

[Griffin]

Here is our member list:

A3N (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=4382)
quozl (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=3887)
Griffin (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=5301)
johnny139 (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=1062)
Taeblewalker (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=94)
mad_wookiee (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=5590)

Are we all happy with the involvement of everyone here?
Hey Griffin -
I pm'ed you about 3 weeks ago asking to be moved to the inactive list. I'm too busy with other stuff through at least the end of the year and don't want to be a drag on stuff the group is doing. I'll check in after the holidays.
m_w
OK, sorry about that. I think I need to talk to the group about how we feel about even having an "Inactive List". It seems to be a place that allows us to come and go at very long intervals. I just think we may need more involved membership than that. Don't take this personally, I am just trying to be honest with what I have been witnessing and thinking. Of course, everyone has an opinion, so I hope everyone will voice it as I have. Thanks for the heads up.

[A3n]

quite frankly at the moment, the group isn't active in & of itself so I don't see an issue with having an inactive list at the moment. It would be nice for us to start focusing ourselves as a group again & if that ever happens I would probably support the removal of the inactive list but not warranted for the time being. Also the fact that we don't have people rushing for membership also makes the removal of the inactive list currently unwarranted.

BTW the Odin's Challenge scenario is within the C3G mainframe so we certainly can push forward with our scenario now.

Cheers

~A3n who is looking for ideas of his next map.

[quozl]

My thoughts: miss two votes in a row and you're on the inactive list.

I think the inactive list is necessary at the moment but we'll need lots of active members before just doing away with it.

[Griffin]

My opinion isn't popular I am sure, it often isn't, but I think the group should have standards, and that means being active and participating in discussions such as this and most importantly the maps and the votes that pertain to them. Most of the time it is just a few of us and we seem to be doing just fine. :reapershrug:

[mad_wookiee]

OK, sorry about that. I think I need to talk to the group about how we feel about even having an "Inactive List". It seems to be a place that allows us to come and go at very long intervals. I just think we may need more involved membership than that. Don't take this personally, I am just trying to be honest with what I have been witnessing and thinking. Of course, everyone has an opinion, so I hope everyone will voice it as I have. Thanks for the heads up.
Is it a bad thing to allow folks to take a break when real-life stuff is getting precedence? I guess I don't really see what the concern might be. It's not like there's a waiting list of folks for active membership or anything.

[Griffin]

Of course breaks are reasonable, but it seems like a lot of breaks take up most of the year collectively.

I am probably just projecting my C3G experiences on the map group a bit, because we would never go for such lack of involvement, but this is a different machine I guess and we should all just take it real slow.

[Taeblewalker]

I started to build the Savage Land map from the .pdf. I have to get to bed now, but I am doing something. ;)

[A3n]

Ok guys I just created the C3G Worlds Finest glyphs as personal tiles for VS. You can download them here (http://www.hiddendragon.com/hs_customs/C3G/released/misc/C3G_GlyphsWF.rar). Extract them to your Personal directory under Images in your VS folder. Then you will need add them yourself to your personal tiles using the configuration menu in VS. The file Glyphside.bmp is the side image to use for all C3G glyphs.

Sadly this will make the glyphs as big as a normal tile but I don't know any way around that.

Cheers

[quozl]

That's awesome!

[johnny139]

Yeah, that'll be super useful. I was thinking of doing something like that myself but... am not good at things, so, I didn't.

[quozl]

X Marks The Spot is up for voting to finalize.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33778

[LordEsenwienIV]

Any chance we can get a Secret Invasion, Civil War, World War Hulk or Annihilation Wave scenario?

[Taeblewalker]

Any chance we can get a Secret Invasion, Civil War, World War Hulk or Annihilation Wave scenario?

Unless you mean a scenario on this map, you should be asking this elsewhere, like the public directory, perhaps.

[LordEsenwienIV]

Any chance we can get a Secret Invasion, Civil War, World War Hulk or Annihilation Wave scenario?

Unless you mean a scenario on this map, you should be asking this elsewhere, like the public directory, perhaps.
OK Thanks

[johnny139]

So, I just built Sewer Entrance - I was surprised I had all the parts to make it but, well, lucky me, I did - and I'm very much looking forward to the Shadow of the Bat Scenario. Now that Odin's Challenge is done (not to mention the fact that X Marks the Spot and Savage Land are in the final stretch), shouldn't we get working on that?

I assumed we're using the starting premise we came up with a while ago, where Black Mask and the Penguin both try and hold up a party and wait around across town when Batman bursts in. From that I can think of good starting zones for pretty much everyone but Batman, Robin, and Alfred. Black Mask would be behind the abandoned building, because he's definitely a "lie low in an old warehouse" type. Penguin would be by the open water because, well, he's the Penguin. Harley would be in the middle of the sewer underground.

But Batman... I'm not sure. Would he be in the middle of the street? That's the best I can come up with.

[Griffin]

Batman should randomly appear from a shadow space. 8)

[Taeblewalker]

Any chance we can get a Secret Invasion, Civil War, World War Hulk or Annihilation Wave scenario?

Unless you mean a scenario on this map, you should be asking this elsewhere, like the public directory, perhaps.
OK Thanks


Sorry, I thought we were posting in the X Marks the Spot Thread! I suppose it's alright to ask something like that here.

[LordEsenwienIV]

Any chance we can get a Secret Invasion, Civil War, World War Hulk or Annihilation Wave scenario?

Unless you mean a scenario on this map, you should be asking this elsewhere, like the public directory, perhaps.
OK Thanks


Sorry, I thought we were posting in the X Marks the Spot Thread! I suppose it's alright to ask something like that here.
Then if it is possible I would like to make one of the following Scenarios/Campaigns:

Secret Invasion
Civil War
World War Hulk
Annihilation Wave

[Taeblewalker]

We are only working on the occasional scenario here, with permission from the main C3G group, if I understand the bylaws correctly. However, I don't believe any "a la carte" scenarios are being done by us as the moment. I am pretty sure we are staying away from mutli-game campaigns here. I am not that familiar with any of those from the comics, though.

[LordEsenwienIV]

They would all be only 1 part scenarios except for the Civil War scenario and maybe the Annihilation Wave.
Secret Invasion - Skrull Invasion (Marvel)
Civil War - Superhero Registration Act (Marvel)
World War Hulk - Hulk is on another planet and he is madder than ever (Marvel)
Annihilation Wave - The Annihilation Wave threatens to destroy the Universe (Marvel)I am going to be doing my work in my own little Secret Sanctum. When the time is right I will show the 'scaper community. If any C3G member wishes to put input into the project please PM and I will give you access to the sanctum. I will wait for approval from a hero and then I will start.

[quozl]

Johnny, awesome! I probably won't get time to work on the scenario for a few weeks. If you want to take charge of it, I'd be glad to help out.

LordE, please make your scenarios in a new thread in the maps & scenarios forum. I'm sure we'd all love to see what you come up with!

[LordEsenwienIV]

Johnny, awesome! I probably won't get time to work on the scenario for a few weeks. If you want to take charge of it, I'd be glad to help out.

LordE, please make your scenarios in a new thread in the maps & scenarios forum. I'm sure we'd all love to see what you come up with!

I'll give you access to the sanctum if you'd like quozl.

[johnny139]

Johnny, awesome! I probably won't get time to work on the scenario for a few weeks. If you want to take charge of it, I'd be glad to help out.

So what exactly would the procedure be for that? The first post doesn't say much about Scenarios - would we just outline the concept (as we already have) and then have two members playtest it? Then from there, assuming it's balanced, we upgrade to a topic in the C3G Forum and pass it through?

That's how it reads to me, at least.

[quozl]

Johnny, awesome! I probably won't get time to work on the scenario for a few weeks. If you want to take charge of it, I'd be glad to help out.

So what exactly would the procedure be for that? The first post doesn't say much about Scenarios - would we just outline the concept (as we already have) and then have two members playtest it? Then from there, assuming it's balanced, we upgrade to a topic in the C3G Forum and pass it through?

That's how it reads to me, at least.

Sounds right to me. Do you want to put something together? I'll try to test it as soon as I can.

[johnny139]

The Book of the Shadow of the Bat Scenario

A C3G Scenario
http://aslade.gallery.netspace.net.au/albums/Heroscape/SewerEntrance.jpg
Download the VS File

Shadow of the Bat
(3 Players)

Even without her other half, Harley Quinn makes for a powerful ally. With the Joker in prison, she has only one thing on her mind: take down the Batman. Both Penguin and Black Mask are gearing up for a full-scale turf war, and are desperate for any aid they can get. Both target the same gala ball in an attempt to draw the vigilante out - a ball hosted by none other than Bruce Wayne. The thugs are dealt with in short order, and with his allies close behind, the bat springs into action.

As Black Mask calls orders from an abandoned warehouse and Penguin waits by the river, time ticks by. A swoosh overhead. A shadow darts by. The Batman has arrived.

Goal: Destroy all of your opponents' figures.

Setup: The Castle Door begins the game in the open position.

Player 1's Army consists of Batman, Robin, and Alfred. These units do not start the game on the battlefield.

Player 2's Army consists of the Penguin and 2 squads of Street Thugs and starts in the red starting zone.

Player 3's Army consists of Black Mask and 2 squads of Street Thugs and starts in the blue starting zone.

Place Harley Quinn in the purple starting zone.

Special Rules: Batman, Robin, and Alfred do not start the game on the battlefield. Whenever Player 1 reveals an Order Marker on one of these figures, you may place them on any unoccupied space on the surface level of the board. If any figures are not on the battlefield at the end of Round 1, they must be placed then.

Harley Quinn does not begin the game under the control of any player. When Batman is destroyed, the player that destroyed him will gain control of Harley Quinn.

Figures may move through water spaces on the sewer level without stopping. A defending figure adds 1 die to their defense if the attacking figure moved through a water space on the sewer level that turn.

Victory: When the other side has no figures left on the battlefield, your side wins. If the battel reaches the end of Round 12, the nteh battle is over adn the player or team with the most points on the battlefield wins(see Scoring on page 14 in the Heroscape Marvel Rules guide).

Map Bio: A derelict building lays abandoned on an empty street. Vacated by the rats long ago, it speaks not a sound. In the sounds of whispers that echo below it's floor it has a secret to tell.

Who or what have made the sewers below their home? And what lies beyond that door?
There's a basic write-up. I really liked Griffin's concept of Batman just popping out of nowhere, and since he's at such a huge disadvantage in this match (in total, 650 points of bad guys against 380 points of good guys), I figure anything to give him a bit of an edge would be nice. Plus it solves the start zone issue with him.

Speaking of start zones, well, HERE (http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9598/startsj.png) is a simple circling of them. No fancy pictures or anything so I hope that's clear.

I'd be able to playtest, too, but not for a week at least. So... yeah.

[quozl]

Looks good so far! Now I just need time to playtest.

[quozl]

I built Sewer Entrance again!

Oh, and here's a new map for you all to look at:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=33947

[Griffin]

Updated to the first page. :up:

[quozl]

We need to look at the process of map release, because I don't want to have to do the final PDF until the map has been finalised. Wording changes are ok & what not but not having to redo the map. That's a pain in the a$$.



Just so you know to produce a standard map I have view the rendered map in VS save a picture of that as a bmp. Go into PS to remove the background copy that into InDesign. Then remove all the ladders except the top one & print the setup as a PDF. Next import each level one at a time from the PDF & place it in position on the InDesign page. Change the level numbers. Add the ladder icon with the appropriate number. Then change the name, set requirements, add the bio & any special rules. Then print all to a PDF again.



So this change to requiring a final PDF before the map design has been finalised is not appreciated. This is not how we first started doing the voting process, it was that the PDF wasn't required till it was voted to release. Now I am not advocating for that either but would require a vote to finalise the map design then a vote to release after the final PDF has been created.

What adjustments to our procedures do we need to make?

I propose that we vote to finalize map design and proceed to a final editing phase before asking A3N to produce a PDF.

[Griffin]

Nay, I think this needs to be given more thought and discussion. We are in NO hurry.

[quozl]

What concerns do you have?

[Griffin]

I think that making sure that we are building each map one more time from the PDF before it is passed is very important. I also believe that keeping our artist happy is very important. I would like to know what A3n wants specifically.

[quozl]

I think he spelled out his concerns pretty clearly. He doesn't want to have make map design changes in a PDF and would like the design finalized before creating it.

I think that's very reasonable and think we should vote to finalize the map design, then have the PDF created, then build from the PDF and vote to approve the final editing of the PDF.

[Taeblewalker]

I think he spelled out his concerns pretty clearly. He doesn't want to have make map design changes in a PDF and would like the design finalized before creating it.

I think that's very reasonable and think we should vote to finalize the map design, then have the PDF created, then build from the PDF and vote to approve the final editing of the PDF.

That sounds reasonable to me.

[Griffin]

I think he spelled out his concerns pretty clearly. He doesn't want to have make map design changes in a PDF and would like the design finalized before creating it.

I think that's very reasonable and think we should vote to finalize the map design, then have the PDF created, then build from the PDF and vote to approve the final editing of the PDF.
You realize that the reason we build again from the PDF is to ensure that it is accurate right? And if there are any inaccuracies the PDF STILL has to be edited.

[Hahma]

Not to butt into you mapmaker's business too much, but couldn't you make sure everything is solid in using the VS version, build it a couple times, take pictures and whatnot and then vote to pass it to PDF phase? Then at that point it's up to A3n to convert it to PDF correctly. Then build it again from the PDF version. If it's right then vote for release. If there is a problem, then at that point it should only be a problem in the conversion and A3n's responsibility anyway since he did that. Other than that, I would suggest that there should be no changes to the map itself after it's voted to PDF phase, so when you vote, make sure it's what you want and the terrain pieces are just right. Just my :2cents: for what it's worth.

[Griffin]

Not to butt into you mapmaker's business too much, but couldn't you make sure everything is solid in using the VS version, build it a couple times, take pictures and whatnot and then vote to pass it to PDF phase? Then at that point it's up to A3n to convert it to PDF correctly. Then build it again from the PDF version. If it's right then vote for release. If there is a problem, then at that point it should only be a problem in the conversion and A3n's responsibility anyway since he did that. Other than that, I would suggest that there should be no changes to the map itself after it's voted to PDF phase, so when you vote, make sure it's what you want and the terrain pieces are just right. Just my :2cents: for what it's worth.
Thanks Hahma. This is what we are talking about. A3n wants to avoid editing the PDF from what I can tell, but if after we build from the PDF there are issues with it, we will need the PDF edited. So I am curious how A3n suggests we can maintain our standards and avoid him having to ever edit the PDF.

We just need to wait to hear from A3n and not bog this discussion down. We are in NO hurry.

[quozl]

So I am curious how A3n suggests we can maintain our standards and avoid him having to ever edit the PDF.

I think he wants to minimize the number of edits, not avoid them entirely.

That's what my proposal assumed anyway.

[Hahma]

So I am curious how A3n suggests we can maintain our standards and avoid him having to ever edit the PDF.

I think he wants to minimize the number of edits, not avoid them entirely.

That's what my proposal assumed anyway.

Well that shouldn't be a problem if everything is checked and double checked and changed, built and whatever using the VS built instructions. You all should be happy with the way it looks and plays at the point it goes to PDF making. So I would think, this would go a long way to minimize PDF editing for A3n, other than something that might have gone wrong on his end when making the PDF from VS.

[quozl]

So I am curious how A3n suggests we can maintain our standards and avoid him having to ever edit the PDF.

I think he wants to minimize the number of edits, not avoid them entirely.

That's what my proposal assumed anyway.

Well that shouldn't be a problem if everything is checked and double checked and changed, built and whatever using the VS built instructions. You all should be happy with the way it looks and plays at the point it goes to PDF making. So I would think, this would go a long way to minimize PDF editing for A3n, other than something that might have gone wrong on his end when making the PDF from VS.

Exactly. That's why I proposed it. It seems common sense to me. I'm still not sure why we wouldn't do it that way.

[Griffin]

We need to look at the process of map release, because I don't want to have to do the final PDF until the map has been finalised. Wording changes are ok & what not but not having to redo the map. That's a pain in the a$$.



Just so you know to produce a standard map I have view the rendered map in VS save a picture of that as a bmp. Go into PS to remove the background copy that into InDesign. Then remove all the ladders except the top one & print the setup as a PDF. Next import each level one at a time from the PDF & place it in position on the InDesign page. Change the level numbers. Add the ladder icon with the appropriate number. Then change the name, set requirements, add the bio & any special rules. Then print all to a PDF again.



So this change to requiring a final PDF before the map design has been finalised is not appreciated. This is not how we first started doing the voting process, it was that the PDF wasn't required till it was voted to release. Now I am not advocating for that either but would require a vote to finalise the map design then a vote to release after the final PDF has been created.

What adjustments to our procedures do we need to make?

I propose that we vote to finalize map design and proceed to a final editing phase before asking A3N to produce a PDF.
I think you are lacking the textual details that you may have been thinking quozl. Also, you started off with a question, showing that you don't even know or believe in what you are proposing. Which is why I think we should just wait to hear more from A3n and have an actual discussion before making changes and figuring out what they mean after it passes. We are in NO hurry here.

[A3n]

What I want is for the map to be finalised before doing a PDF if I stuff up someway in the conversion from VS to PDF then that's my own stupid fault & I will wear the work to change it. Thankfully it hasn't happened yet since you guys changed to this current process of requiring a PDF before the voting to release, but then again there hasn't been much map work lately or much editing of the maps required.

So I want a proper process in place before the proverbial hits the fan. Quite frankly I think our process here is a bit laxed when compared to the whole C3G framework. We don't playtest or even check that it is playable.

My suggestion would be that we require the map maker & one other person to make the map first or 2 other people if the map maker is terrain handicapped. Both have to be happy with the build. One playtest on it. Then a vote to final editing.I make the PDF, one more build from the PDF. Then a vote to release.

Now I know the playtesting can be hard on some of the thematic maps but I think it should be just about trying the map out & finding any exploitable parts on the map. Then we have a discussion about the findings from the playtest. Some exploitable things might be thematic & should stay. Where as some things we might be able to mediate as a group. Then if when we are happy to move on, make the proposal to final editing.

I just think we need a better process. & thanx for hearing my rant.

Cheers

[Griffin]

How is this:

Rules for Map Designs

1) Each map must have a theme that is Super Hero based.

2) Each map must have a VirtualScape file uploaded so the build instructions can be shared.

3) Each map must have a generic name that is not tied to any one set location that is specific to a comic universe.

4) Each map may use any amount of terrain from any terrain set or master set, but the map must have a list of how many sets are required to build it.

5) Each map must be defined as a Competitive Map, Casual Map, or a Scenario Map and then built by one person using the VS file.

6) A single Competitive Map must be Playtested on at least once by anyone able and willing to.

7) A single Scenario may be submitted by the C3G mapmakers in the C3G forum. Only one scenario may be active at a time. Before sending a Scenario to the C3G main forum section, we must first have 2 C3G Map Makers members playtest the scenario and agree that it is ready and finalized to the best of our ability. Then we will follow this template to create the first post as a Books of Thread.

The Book of (Name) Scenario

A C3G scenario

Download the VS File

(SCENARIO NAME)
(Number of players)
(Scenario Bio italicized and heavily thematic. Often read to the players before the game starts to set the thematic mood.)

GOAL:
(Generic and thematic goal as to what each player must accomplish)

SETUP:
(A detailed list of what pregame items are needed to play the scenario, and where they should be placed. Examples are: Destructible Objects and their placement (or modifications like whether or not the Castle Door is in place), what terrain sets are required, what specific figures are needed, etc.)

SPECIAL RULES:
(Rules that are not part of the normal game, but are applied to augment the game in a way that makes it a scenario)

VICTORY:
(The conditions on which each player will know when they have or have not won. A common official line is "When the other players have no figures left on the battlefield you win.")



MAP BIO: (A short bio that describes the actual location (the map itself and not the scenario)

_________________________________________________________________







-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial playtest
Second playtest
Then we will vote to move it to the C3G main forum. Once we have moved it to the C3G main forum, we (the C3G Map Makers) will act as one Lead Designer and abide by the same rules found here C3G Rules (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1066440&postcount=1359). The Heroes in the Main Frame will finalize and release the map.

8 ) After the Map has met all the requirements, a PDF will be created. Then the map must be built one last time using the PDF to confirm that it is correct.

9) Then the Map may be proposed to be finalized and released.


To create a map design thread, start a new thread in the C3G sub-forum section and title it with the name of your map first, then place this ending on the title: C3G Map. After starting that thread, post a link here in this thread so that it can be posted on the front page.

[Taeblewalker]

I like it.

[Griffin]

Changes are in bright red.

[A3n]

Looks good & I would definitely be happy with that process, however I still think every map should have a playtest, not just competitive. I say this to ensure that even the casual maps when used don't have flaws that means they would never be played a second time. :D

EDIT: Actually I just realised that there still isn't a vote to final edit if it's just a map. So no that's not enough for me yet. I thought the bit after the spoiler was your step 8.

Cheers

[quozl]

I propose that we vote to finalize map design and proceed to a final editing phase before asking A3N to produce a PDF.

A3n, are you saying this isn't enough? That now you want to require playtests too? While I was for playtests originally, I think that is a separate issue and should be proposed and voted on separately.

[A3n]

I propose that we vote to finalize map design and proceed to a final editing phase before asking A3N to produce a PDF.

A3n, are you saying this isn't enough? That now you want to require playtests too? While I was for playtests originally, I think that is a separate issue and should be proposed and voted on separately.

Yes, I am saying that since I have an issue with that one part we might as well review the whole process & get a process that works to produce the best quality maps we can before they get the C3G name.

That is also what Griff is alluding to when he says no need for rush here.

Cheers

[davidlhsl]

If you do incorporate playtesting, it might be helpful to playtesters to have a checklist that would illustrate things to look for and report in playtesting.

Examples that I can think of (actually, some of these might qualify more as design questions rather than playtesting, but I'll just dump 'em and you can sort 'em out based on your needs):

* Are there any tight areas on the map where it is difficult for figures to occupy? Question to consider: Would you want to consider figures with the original Heroclix bases in this question, or do you want to just consider rebased figures?
* Are there any structural weaknesses in the map build where parts of the map tend to wobble or come loose?
* Are there any areas that are difficult to reach with your hands in placing, moving, and removing figures?
* Can all figures (flying and non-flying) access all areas of the map?
* Are there any areas of the map that are not likely to see play? Where are the area(s) that receive the most action?
* Does the action tend to settle in one spot, or does the action move around the map?
* If glyphs are used, are the glyphs selected and their locations attractive enough to warrant reaching them? Are the positions both (a) vulnerable to enemy attack (desired), and (b) accessible to both players? Are they necessary to make certain areas of the map more viable, or would the map play just as well without them?
* Consider any special map rules and consider whether they are necessary to the theme and play of the map. Could the map play just as well without them? Are the rules easy to understand and use?
* Consider units which benefit from the terrain elements used (lava, swamp, water, etc.) and whether the map would overpower such units.

Those are some of the items I can think of, but I think it could serve as a springboard for your discussion if you wish.

[quozl]

OK, if we want to revamp the whole process:

Rules for Map Designs

1) Each map must have a theme that is Super Hero based and a generic name that is not tied to any one set location that is specific to a comic universe.

2) Each map must have a VirtualScape file uploaded so the build instructions can be shared.

3) Each map may use any amount of terrain from any terrain set or master set, but the map must have a list of how many sets are required to build it.

4) Each map must be defined as a Competitive Map or Casual Map and then built by one person using the VS file.

5) The map should then be voted on to progress to the Final Editing Phase if it is a Casual Map or the Playtesting Phase if it is a Competitive Map.

6) A Competitive Map must be Playtested on at least once before it can be voted on to progress to the Final Editing Phase.

7) In the Final Editing Phase, a PDF will be created. Then the map must be built one last time using the PDF to confirm that it is correct.

8 ) Then the Map may be proposed to be released.

_________________________________________________________________

A Scenario may be submitted by the C3G mapmakers in the C3G forum. Only one scenario may be active at a time. Before sending a Scenario to the C3G main forum section, we must first have 2 C3G Map Makers members playtest the scenario and agree that it is ready and finalized to the best of our ability. Then we will follow this template to create the first post as a Books of Thread.



The Book of (Name) Scenario







A C3G scenario



Download the VS File



(SCENARIO NAME)




(Number of players)



(Scenario Bio italicized and heavily thematic. Often read to the players before the game starts to set the thematic mood.)



GOAL:



(Generic and thematic goal as to what each player must accomplish)



SETUP:



(A detailed list of what pregame items are needed to play the scenario, and where they should be placed. Examples are: Destructible Objects and their placement (or modifications like whether or not the Castle Door is in place), what terrain sets are required, what specific figures are needed, etc.)



SPECIAL RULES:



(Rules that are not part of the normal game, but are applied to augment the game in a way that makes it a scenario)



VICTORY:



(The conditions on which each player will know when they have or have not won. A common official line is "When the other players have no figures left on the battlefield you win.")









MAP BIO: (A short bio that describes the actual location (the map itself and not the scenario)

_________________________________________________________________



-Rulings and Clarifications-
N/A-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
N/A-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
Initial playtest
Second playtest
Then we will vote to move it to the C3G main forum. Once we have moved it to the C3G main forum, we (the C3G Map Makers) will act as one Lead Designer and abide by the same rules found here C3G Rules (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1066440&postcount=1359). The Heroes in the Main Frame will finalize and release the map.

_________________________________________________________________


To create a map design thread, start a new thread in the C3G sub-forum section and title it with the name of your map first, then place this ending on the title: C3G Map. After starting that thread, post a link here in this thread so that it can be posted on the front page.

[A3n]

6) A Competitive Map must be Playtested on at least once by anyone able and willing to before it can be voted on to progress to the Final Editing Phase.

[quozl]

I disagree about Casual Maps needing playtesting but I'll edit the other part.

[tcglkn]

I disagree about Casual Maps needing playtesting but I'll edit the other part.

I disagree with you disagreeing. If you want to make quality maps, you need to have it tested and make sure all the things david mentioned (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1294939&postcount=715) are accept about. You don't want to make a horrible map but let it pass because you didn't test it do you?

[quozl]

I disagree about Casual Maps needing playtesting but I'll edit the other part.

I disagree with you disagreeing. If you want to make quality maps, you need to have it tested and make sure all the things david mentioned (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1294939&postcount=715) are accept about. You don't want to make a horrible map but let it pass because you didn't test it do you?

I disagree with you disagreeing about me disagreeing. Casual maps are casual and need no playtesting in my opinion.

[A3n]

I really think it is necessary to test casual maps also. Even if it's just identifying potential problems that can be lived with for the thematic addition to the game. All issues should be identified & discussed. Then decide whether it needs a fix or not. I think the only way to fully realise this is to have it playtested.

Cheers

[quozl]

I propose a vote:

Do we want to require that casual maps be playtested?

My vote is NO.

[LordEsenwienIV]

If my vote counts it would be a Yes.

[tcglkn]

If my vote counts it would be a Yes.

Mapmakers only.

[LordEsenwienIV]

If my vote counts it would be a Yes.

Mapmakers only.
So it doesn't but that's just my :2cents:

[A3n]

Yes

[Griffin]

I disagree about Casual Maps needing playtesting but I'll edit the other part.

I disagree with you disagreeing. If you want to make quality maps, you need to have it tested and make sure all the things david mentioned (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1294939&postcount=715) are accept about. You don't want to make a horrible map but let it pass because you didn't test it do you?

I disagree with you disagreeing about me disagreeing. Casual maps are casual and need no playtesting in my opinion.
For once in a long while, I agree completely with quozl. :p

Nay, what is a playtest on a casual map gonna tell you? that it is casual? :lol: I think it is unnecessary because the data acquired is not useful. When people play casual they are not expecting anything but just moving figures and rolling dice.

[Taeblewalker]

I say Nay. Casual means casual. We didn't playtest Savage Land, unless I missed something.

[davidlhsl]

I've played at least one game on every map I've constructed. They aren't always with C3G units, which is why I haven't always posted a report (I used the HelmAVerse on Savage Land and GreyOwl's Star Wars customs on X Marks the Spot), but I do put a game on them.

An example of where a map problem may occur was with A3n's Latveria Interior. I realized that a flying figure on the ground floor could fly up to the top floor in one of the side rooms where access between the levels shouldn't have been allowed. I did discover this from the construction, though. But the question about flying figures on the pillars on Savage Land did occur to me as a direct result of playing a game on it. But the issue may also occur to someone else as a result of the physical build itself.

Not pushing for one vote or the other, but just giving you some feedback on what I've experienced. I will say this, however: the physical build is absolutely essential, because you see things on the physical map that you would completely miss on the Virtual Scape flyover.

[johnny139]

I'd vote YEA for casual playtesting. I mean, I figure that most problems would be self-evident, but if there's a game-breaking spot on the map that we missed for whatever reason... I'd just feel a lot more comfortable letting a map go by if it has a playtest than otherwise.

[quozl]

Closest vote in a long while. 3 NO, 2 YES

[Griffin]

Mad Wookie will either give the Yeas a win or bring it to a tie.

[Hahma]

More butting in by me. :)

I'd vote Nay if I had a vote just because I don't know what you could learn by playing single game or two on those casual maps. I mean a lot would have to depend on where figures started from and what figures were used to test. Certainly ranged flyers have the advantage in many of them.

They look awesome, but they also kind of look more like scenario maps waiting for a scenario to go with them.

Again, just my :2cents:

[quozl]

Mad Wookie will either give the Yeas a win or bring it to a tie.

Mad Wookie went inactive, remember?

[Griffin]

Did he say he was dropping out?

[tcglkn]

Hey Griffin -
I pm'ed you about 3 weeks ago asking to be moved to the inactive list. I'm too busy with other stuff through at least the end of the year and don't want to be a drag on stuff the group is doing. I'll check in after the holidays.
m_w

;)

[Griffin]

OK, so we will not be playtesting any Casual maps, at least it isn't necessary. But I expect all of those who voted for playtesting on Casual maps to do so on their own from here on out. :p J/K

[quozl]

What do you all think of the rules I reworded here?

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1294941&postcount=716

[Griffin]

Your just referencing phases as you go along but each phase isn't defined in and of itself like with the C3G Rules. I will type it up later to better mirror what C3G has.

How do you guys feel about us getting our own sanctum (a hidden forum where we do all our work and invite who we want to come along)?

[A3n]

Your just referencing phases as you go along but each phase isn't defined in and of itself like with the C3G Rules. I will type it up later to better mirror what C3G has.

I was hoping you would ;)

How do you guys feel about us getting our own sanctum (a hidden forum where we do all our work and invite who we want to come along)?
I don't think it's warranted at the moment. Our productivity is low & we are benefiting from the general publics input. At the moment it isn't hindering but I would like to keep as a future option as required.

Cheers

[Griffin]

That makes sense A3n. We have gotten a lot of helpful feedback and contributions by being public, so for now we are probably square. :up:

[Taeblewalker]

Agreed. We aren't really doing anything that secret here, and the people who pop in offer advice that's often quite helpful.

[tcglkn]

I like building the maps when I can :D

[Griffin]

How about just getting our own forum section then? Also, I realized that a secret forum would benefit us in just having a quiet place to vote. There was a lot of public chatter on the last vote, and that can become overbearing over time, trust me.

[tcglkn]

There was a lot of public chatter on the last vote, and that can become overbearing over time, trust me.

:oops: Just trying to be helpful. I'll stay out of your hair during votes from now on. :runaway:

(Although I believe most of my comments were before quozl started the vote fwiw)

[Griffin]

This time it wasn't that bad really, but in my experience it can build and cause an atmosphere of urgency to express one's points, and then it becomes a cluster **** where people who are not involved develop a sense of entitlement. I have seen this happen before. ;)

[quozl]

There was a lot of public chatter on the last vote, and that can become overbearing over time, trust me.

I don't think a sanctum is necessary for voting either. If the chatter gets too much, a little targeted neg-repping should work just fine.

P.S. Thanks for volunteering to edit in the phase information. I was definitely referencing C3G phases without spelling them out.

[Griffin]

Your probably right quozl, but if we ever get to a point where we do need/want a sanctum, we can make that happen.

[davidlhsl]

There was a lot of public chatter on the last vote, and that can become overbearing over time, trust me.

:oops: Just trying to be helpful. I'll stay out of your hair during votes from now on. :runaway:


Whoops... same here. I'll unsubscribe to take this off my radar.

[Hahma]

There was a lot of public chatter on the last vote, and that can become overbearing over time, trust me.

:oops: Just trying to be helpful. I'll stay out of your hair during votes from now on. :runaway:


Whoops... same here. I'll unsubscribe to take this off my radar.

Me too.

[quozl]

Since Griffin is busy, I'm going to take a shot at our design rules again (this doesn't include our scenario design rules):

C3G MAP PRODUCTION GUIDE

DESIGN PHASE

The following are the minimum requirements for posting a new design thread in the C3G forum for any C3G map:

1) Each map must have a theme that is Super Hero based and a generic name that is not tied to any one set location that is specific to a comic universe.

2) Each map must have a VirtualScape file uploaded so the build instructions can be shared.

3) Each map may use any amount of terrain from any terrain set or master set, but the map must have a list of how many sets are required to build it.

4) Each map must be defined as a Competitive Map or Casual Map and then built by one person using the VS file.

Competitive Map: A playtest must be done and posted and 24 hours must pass before a proposition to move to the Final Editing Phase can be made.

Casual Map: 24 hours must pass before a proposition to move to the Final Editing Phase can be made.

FINAL EDITING PHASE

Requirement to move to the release phase:

- A PDF will be created. Then the map must be built one last time using the PDF to confirm that it is correct.

Then the Map may be proposed to be released and added to the "Books of" thread.

[Griffin]

I am sorry. I have been busy and I also forgot. Quozl, it needs some Griff flare with bold text, color, underlining, etc.

I appreciate what you have done so far. I will try to get to this tonight.

[quozl]

I am sorry. I have been busy and I also forgot. Quozl, it needs some Griff flare with bold text, color, underlining, etc.

I appreciate what you have done so far. I will try to get to this tonight.

I have the required number of pieces of flair, sir. :D :) :o :shock: :? 8) :lol: :p ;) :mrgreen: :rock::hump: :poke::rofl::woot: