Level Glyphs

[SgtHulka]

As many of you know, one of the primal appeals of D&D has always been making your character more and more powerful. As your characters killed more monsters and took their stuff, they wouldn't just get richer and have nastier magic items, they'd also get more powerful with more life and better spells. So I began to wonder how to achieve that same effect in Heroscape. And it occurred to me...how about Glyphs that represent gaining levels instead of items? You put them in the final battle of a dungeon, or even better, in a room behind the final battle, and characters can put them on their card and keep them for the next dungeon. Each Glyph would represent +1 Level, and depending on the character's class, each level would provide different bonuses. Something like:

FIGHTER +1 LEVEL: +1 Life, +1 Attack
FIGHTER +2 LEVEL: +1 Defense
CLERIC +1 LEVEL: +1 Special Attack, +1 d20 Roll
CLERIC +2 LEVEL: +1 Life, +1 Attack
WIZARD +1 LEVEL: +1 Special Attack
WIZARD +2 LEVEL: +1 Life, +1 Attack
ROGUE +1 LEVEL: +1 d20 Roll, +1 Sneak Attack
ROGUE +2 LEVEL: +1 Life, +1 Attack

So Tandros with 2 +1 Level Glyphs on his card would have a Life of 8, an Attack of 4 (6 with his +2 Broadsword) and a Defense of 5.

Ana with 2 +1 Level Glyphs on her card would have a Life of 6, an Attack of 3, Turn Undead 5, and +1 to her Healing Word die rolls.

Erevan with 2 +1 Level Glyphs on his card would have a Life of 5, an Attack of 3, and Fireblast 3, 4, or 5.

Darrak with 2 +1 Level Glyphs on his card would have a Life of 5, Attack of 5, +1 to his hide in shadows roll, and a Sneak Attack 3.

[Harlax]

There are any number of game mechanics that could be used for this. You could set up a token system like Talisman where you choose a stat to add - attack, defense, or life - as one example.

For any system to work, you would have to assign a point value to each add to maintain balance.

[killercactus]

For any system to work, you would have to assign a point value to each add to maintain balance.

....and that's where this gets fuzzy. I thought about doing it for my RPG-Style Campaign here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28202), but in the end I just decided that my Gold earning system and allowing the heroes to purchase equipment was fine for "leveling" them. It's just too much to keep track of without trying to go totally pen and paper.

[Harlax]

Expecially as the adds have different values depending what SA a figure has. Adding defense to a figure with counterstrike has a very different value than adding to a figure without. Imagine being able to add life to Krug!

[SgtHulka]

Krug is neither a fighter, cleric, rogue nor wizard, so he'd be uneffected by a level up glyph.

The only really hard ones are the elf Wizards, because they'd be effected by the level up glyphs. And then if you started expanding classes. like adding Monks. Most of the other D&D classes don't have Heroscape equivelants.

Why would you need to add a point value to them? If we're fighting a Classic Scape battle drafting points-based armies I'm not gonna let you start with a bunch of level up glyphs.

I guess what you're getting at is measuring the challenge for a Dungeon Crawl? Like Player 1 starts with 460 points and 4 starting areas, or else the heroes from Master Set 3 and 2 Level Up Glyphs? I don't think that should be so hard to figure out an appropriate challenge. Just compare the power of leveled up MS3 heroes to the power of a higher priced group of heroes. And then playtest. In other words, I DON'T think they should have a point value. The use of Level Up Glyphs should be scenario-based, not point-based.

As for choosing what characteristic to add to, that's why I think it should be class based just like in D&D. You don't get to choose how you level up. It's pre-ordained by class. And you don't bother with extra spells and feats and powers and stuff. Otherwise you would just abuse the heck out of it. Besides, if you want to bother with all that stuff, just play D&D.

The alternative is for Heroscape to come out with improved versions of the MS3 characters, like SotM did for Raelin and Drake. I just found that a bit boring. I'd rather buy new characters than improved versions of old ones.

[Harlax]

On the contrary, you have a great deal of choice on how you level up. With the ability to bump the stat of your choice every few levels and choice of skill points and feats, not to mention multiclass options, characters of the same class can progress in radically different ways.

[SgtHulka]

You guys have convinced me it's a bad idea.

[Agent Minivann]

Something relatively simple that could be done in a campaign setting is to give each surviving member of the party a number of markers. You could take a number of painted or otherwise modified wound markers that represent which stat these increase. Any figures that have to get revived between scenarios don't get the bonus.

For example, after room one, I am awarded 2 markers per survivor. I could put an attack and a range marker on Syvarris to make him extra nasty from range, and two defense markers to Tandros to keep him alive that little bit longer and to keep the heat off other party members. Etc.

When we play in room two, I can see the markers and have a visual reminder of how many extra dice to roll or how many extra spaces to count. Not much more complicated than the Tagawa Samurai.

[wolfeman1968]

Champions, Warriors, Samurai and Warlords would fall under the fighter group
"mancers", wizards and mage are one group
ninja, thief, rogue and assassins are a group
druids and clerics (monks?)

these could be used in your system to convert others

[DrLivingston]

You guys have convinced me it's a bad idea.

I think leveling somehow is a great idea.

It is one of the thrills of playing D&D.

I like the token ideas.

I also like the way Velenne is doing it in his campaign (the one featured in Week at 'Scapers front page thing/Truth Blog a few weeks ago).

He just has a ton of magic item glyphs that get collected throughout the adventure and he uses the abilities that the magic glyphs confer to sort of simulate leveling up.

It blows when you die though, because according to the rules unique heroes can only drop ONE glyph when they get killed.

So boom all your stuff is gone!

And that makes losing a hero horribly painful sometimes.

(Which is , I guess, the point.)

[wulfhunter667]

For any system to work, you would have to assign a point value to each add to maintain balance.

....and that's where this gets fuzzy. I thought about doing it for my RPG-Style Campaign here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=28202), but in the end I just decided that my Gold earning system and allowing the heroes to purchase equipment was fine for "leveling" them. It's just too much to keep track of without trying to go totally pen and paper.
Actually, that's the way the predecessor to Heroscape, Heroquest, did it, and that idea is the most sound I've heard. But I like the idea of levelling figures. The level glyph is a good idea, IF you can pull it off.