Spatacus: trash or value

[dragonfire9788]

I think it depends on what army you have

[dragonfire]

he ok


did you steal my name jerk :D

[dragonfire9788]

Er.... No :lol:

[dragonfire]

then whered you get it punk.

I got it when i was playing star wars battlefront 2. I needed a profile name so i made it up.

Flashback.


Wait a second! I thought flashbacks were supposed to have fuzzy corners.

[Rÿchean]

yeah dragonfire is a pretty unique name :shock: what are the odds of two people making it thier nick :roll:

I believe Spartacus' value will be realized at some point

[dragonfire9788]

hey I can't change it now

can I?

[Turtleboy]

Well an Admin can check your Ip to see if your lying. And Dragon, you do post alot of one sentance post, combined all your thoughts into one post to make it more friendly, and less spam.

--Yout Friendly neighborhood turtle. :D

[jaques]

I haven't played Spartacus in any real games.

But against 7-year-olds, he's the bomb. :)

[yagyuninja]

There should be a third option:

FUN!

[countblah]

I voted value. I think he is a combination of Raelin, Taelord and the glyph of fastie-walkie. All of that without having to hold a glyph or keep any characters in their aura range. He basically ensures that Crixus will live for at the very least five activations, and is, by himself, more than adequate for mopping up what Crixus and Retarius leave behind. Sorry, I know I'm going to get flamed, but I think he's way better value for money than Taelord, and is tough as nails to boot.

[thehandofzarquon]

I voted value. I think he is a combination of Raelin, Taelord and the glyph of fastie-walkie. All of that without having to hold a glyph or keep any characters in their aura range. He basically ensures that Crixus will live for at the very least five activations, and is, by himself, more than adequate for mopping up what Crixus and Retarius leave behind. Sorry, I know I'm going to get flamed, but I think he's way better value for money than Taelord, and is tough as nails to boot.I think he's a better value than Taelord too, given that he is at least capable of standing toe-to-toe fairly well with others in his point range... but he's still missing a little bit.

Really, if his Inspiration affected himself (thus making him 6 move, 7 Attack, and 5 defense while inspired!) AND he had a common squad to affect... I'd say he definetly would be worth the 200 points. But at the moment... I wouldn't draft him.

[bonafide]

Geez...

I'm kinda sick and tired of the Spartcus "overcosted" and "worthless" posts. This is just a rehash of all the Taelord nonsense that we went through since wave 1. :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

[Nwojedi]

I vote trash for now. but I foresee units that will definately make him worth it later on. But for now. Trash.

[Agent Minivann]

I agree with Nwojedi for the most part. If you draft all three then he might be worth it, but it won't really be until there are more gladiators (specifically a squad?).

[Thor]

If a squad came out in a future wave that Spartacus enhanced it would undoubtedly sway my vote, but as is I had to vote trash for him. You pretty much have to draft him with both the other Gladiators to even come close to justifying his cost. But even then you are spending 380 points for 3 heros. Drafting Spartacus by himself is unthinkable unless your goal in a game is to lose, and lose bad.

I voted value. I think he is a combination of Raelin, Taelord and the glyph of fastie-walkie. All of that without having to hold a glyph or keep any characters in their aura range. He basically ensures
that Crixus will live for at the very least five activations, and is, by himself, more than adequate for mopping up what Crixus and Retarius leave behind. Sorry, I know I'm going to get flamed, but I think he's way better value for money than Taelord, and is tough as nails to boot.
But the thing is the glyph, Raelin, and Taelord can each enhance your WHOLE army, not just 2 other heros. Don't get me wrong, his ability is very nice when it enhances the two Gladiators, but the problem is it ONLY affects those two. Squads will mop these guys up if you are playing a 400 point game. The Gladiators have no area attacks at all. Not only that, you need all your order markers on the Gladiators to make Spart's ability work, and Spartacus is near worthless on his own. 400 points is quite the investment for such a small army, especially when most of that cost is just going to enhance 2 figures.

I think he's a better value than Taelord too, given that he is at least capable of standing toe-to-toe fairly well with others in his point range... but he's still missing a little bit.
He really can't stand toe to toe that well with figures in the 200 point range. 6 attack, 4 defense, and 5 life is more in the 100 point range. Alastair cost 110 points, has 1 more life, 1 less attack and 1 less life then Spartacus. Drake also costs 110 points, has the same life, the same attack, and 1 less defense. These figures also have really good abilities as well. Basically Spartacus is about an 80 point figure and his ability is 120 points I would say. By himself he is about the worst draft imaginable. If you get him with the only two heros he enhances his value is still questionable imo.

Really, if his Inspiration affected himself (thus making him 6 move, 7 Attack, and 5 defense while inspired!) AND he had a common squad to affect... I'd say he definetly would be worth the 200 points. But at the moment... I wouldn't draft him.
Agreed!

[Chimpy]

I find it best to compare Spart to Marcus. The both do the same thing, inhance the attack, defense, and movement of a particular type. When you the two powers are put side by side two major differences become apparent.

1. Spart's boosts all gladiators not just ones he touches.

2. You have to have an order marker on Spart for his to work.

Now personly, if they came out with a new Marcus whose powers were the same as Spart's (for soldiers instead of gladiators) I would use him 10X more than I already use Marcus. When you look at the two point and power wise, Spart is the clear winner. The problem enters when you look at what units they get to help. Marcus has a cheap squad of 4 guys who get to bond with him. Spart gets two expensive gladiators. (Who can't bond with him.) But, if a cheap, bonding gladiator squad does come out, Spart will be worth every penny.

[Thor]

You forgot to mention one other major difference between Spartacus and Marcus, and that is point cost. Marcus is 100 points cheaper then Spartacus is, yet he has more life and only slightly lower attack and defense. Marcus is ok by himself for 100 points, Spartacus isn't in any way, shape or form. For 200 points you can draft Marcus and 2 squads of Legionnaires or JUST Spartacus. For 400 points you can draft Marcus and 4 squads of Legionnaires or Spartacus and his 2 Gladiator buddies to enchance. The outcome of these battles should be painfully obvious.

[Jandars_Hope]

Geez...

I'm kinda sick and tired of the Spartcus "overcosted" and "worthless" posts. This is just a rehash of all the Taelord nonsense that we went through since wave 1. :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

I agree bonafide! There are already threads on Spartacus and we don't really need another!

[countblah]

Alastair cost 110 points, has 1 more life, 1 less attack and 1 less life then Spartacus.

Alastair is magical.

Having said that, I agree with your argument. Solo-style, Spartacus is a hopeless draft choice. However, with Crix and Ret, his value goes up significantly. And when a squad of gladiators comes out, his value will increase even further. Problem is, though, waiting for that to come up. Perhaps Kee-mo-shee will be a gladiator? Kidding.

[Teamski]

I'm not sold on Sparticus. As mentioned before, the whole idea of his abilitiy being linked to other non-bonded heroes is an extremely limiting factor. All three gladiators will be destroyed piecemeal, continually weakening his ability. I just don't see them adding value to an army......

-Ski

[jcb231]

I draft Crixus and Retiarius as solo units, or as a pair. I NEVER draft Spartacus unless I'm drafting all the other glads...he is trash unless he has help. I consider him a 380 point figure that comes in three pieces. If you think of him like that he's a reasonable piece to play in large games.

He will truly shine if a common squad of Gladiators comes out, or if a larger variety of Gladiator heroes come out.

[Thor]

Alastair cost 110 points, has 1 more life, 1 less attack and 1 less life then Spartacus.

Alastair is magical.

Having said that, I agree with your argument. Solo-style, Spartacus is a hopeless draft choice. However, with Crix and Ret, his value goes up significantly. And when a squad of gladiators comes out, his value will increase even further. Problem is, though, waiting for that to come up. Perhaps Kee-mo-shee will be a gladiator? Kidding.
Bah, I meant 1 less defense. That's what I get for posting at 4:30 in the morning :?

[countblah]

Alastair cost 110 points, has 1 more life, 1 less attack and 1 less life then Spartacus.

Alastair is magical.

Having said that, I agree with your argument. Solo-style, Spartacus is a hopeless draft choice. However, with Crix and Ret, his value goes up significantly. And when a squad of gladiators comes out, his value will increase even further. Problem is, though, waiting for that to come up. Perhaps Kee-mo-shee will be a gladiator? Kidding.
Bah, I meant 1 less defense. That's what I get for posting at 4:30 in the morning :?

I figured as much. Just giving you a hard time. :wink:

[UranusPChicago]

Pure speculation here on my part, but what would you think about a Gladiator squad if/when it is released having Gladiator bonding? I think Spartacus might find his way into more battles if that were the case... especially if the Value of the squad was 55 points.

[Sweetcurse]

i definitely see a four man squad o gladiators in the horizon. Around 50 points with bonding and good stats. They will make Spartacus great.

Now, "Spatacus" on the other hand...I dunno about him!

[Point Blanks]

Commenting on Spartacus right now is equivelant of commenting about the arrow gruts before the swog riders and Krug come out. Craig and crew definately have something on the horizon to justify the 200 points.

[kenjib]

Now, "Spatacus" on the other hand...I dunno about him!

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m102/kenjib_2006/spat-1.jpg

[Eclipse]

He's ok. Very costly and not particularly versitile. I imagine he'll get better, but right now he's actually about worth his points as long as you have the other two gladiators and a map that provides melee plenty of cover. I've done an actual Gladiator arena and the trio performed quite well.

[SouthPawScrapper]

i think right now hes so so. In the future though he will be worth the 200 because he will get some more supporting cast.

[Thor]

I voted trash based on what we know and have available right now. I am guessing most people arn't doing the same though, considering he has so many "value" votes. I take it a lot of people are voting value because Spartacus will most likely get a squad to enhance in the future? There probably should of been a third option, "he sucks now, but has potential down the line" or something.

[Sweetcurse]

The suqd is going to have to bond exclusively with him and be very, very nasty and cheap. That is the only way he'll be worthy.

[reapersaurus]

how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

[Sweetcurse]

how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

Hence Thor's suggestion of another option on the poll.

[happyjosiah]

how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

Perhaps. But I have patience. Tae has certainly proved his worth with the castle...

[Sweetcurse]

Finally, Tae is arguably useful in ONE situation. After all, he only needs a castle and a set of snipers, which by the way already get a +2 attack from the castle. I'm UD on this one, Tae is and will always be worth 80 points to me.

Spartacus , as it stands now, is only worth about 80-100 points. As reaper says he isn't great at the moment.

[Nwojedi]

Tae is still not a useful draft choice. Especially for tourney play. When you do not know what kind of terrain or senerio your up against. he'd never be drafted. Those types of figures do not have the versitility to combat a broad range of situations. Tae still blows. Sparticus at least, has potential to be able to hold his own against a diverse collection of armies.

[Sweetcurse]

Tae is still not a useful draft choice. Especially for tourney play. When you do not know what kind of terrain or senerio your up against. he'd never be drafted. Those types of figures do not have the versitility to combat a broad range of situations. Tae still blows. Sparticus at least, has potential to be able to hold his own against a diverse collection of armies.

You're my "hero of the day."

[happyjosiah]

No, Tae is a great DRAFT choice, he is not a great premade army choice...

[Sweetcurse]

True, good point. In a surpise castle map, Tae will be drafted. It's in the premades that he fails. Good point HJ.

[Nwojedi]

if it's a surprise, you wont' know what your playing on until your army is already made. In which case, he would never get drafted. Yet, Raelin, who has a simliar ability, is versitle in most/all situations, regardless if your playing on a blind map or not.

[Sweetcurse]

I think HJ means a draft where you know the map. In that case, draft may help. If the map is unknown, the Tae is even more worthless than ususal.

[Thor]

The main reason Raelin is more versatile than Taelord is because she cost so much less, allowing her to be drafted and still leavcing room for a lot of other heros or squads. If you draft Taelord for a 400 point game that is nearly half your points spent on one figure and you have little room left for other figures. And unlike Charos, Braxar, Jotun etc., Taelord doesn't have the life or stats to hold his own against other 200 point heros, or 200 points worth of squads. You are paying a huge amount of points for his one ability that only helps other units. Spartacus is very much the same way. In 400-500 point armies these guys just can't hold their own. They are too high priced for what you get and for who their abilities can benefit.

[jcb231]

how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

I think he is nearly worth it and is currently draftable but as I say, ONLY if his two buddies fight with him and the map is suitable for melee battles. If he is drafted alone or on the wrong map he is worthless.

I would be very surprised if a squad of Gladiators was not on the way. Just one squad, almost regardless of it's abilities, will be enough to push him over into the realm of good units I think. Bonding wouldn't even be needed....just a reasonably cheap squad of melee figures...say 50-60 points, with some simple special power and decent base stats. That would be enough.

Finally, Tae is arguably useful in ONE situation. After all, he only needs a castle and a set of snipers, which by the way already get a +2 attack from the castle. I'm UD on this one, Tae is and will always be worth 80 points to me.

Spartacus , as it stands now, is only worth about 80-100 points. As reaper says he isn't great at the moment.

Taelord is very useful in a variety of situations.....as HJ and others say, he is NOT useful in a pre-made situation at all. He is also NOT useful in small armies because he wastes too many points.

Taelord is VERY useful in castle defense and in large armies (750-800 or more points). The bigger the army, the more useful Taelord becomes. Taelord is at his best when fighting with Snipers, Blastatrons, or 4th Mass.

Not every figure is useful in all situations....if Hasbro released a figure that was never useful, ever, I'd be the first to complain. But they haven't. Every single figure to date is useful in various situations. Every one. Certainly not all of them are right for pre-made games though.

As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.

[Sweetcurse]

[quote=reapersaurus]how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

[I think he is nearly worth it and is currently draftable but as I say, ONLY if his two buddies fight with him and the map is suitable for melee battles. If he is drafted alone or on the wrong map he is worthless.

Sorry to disagree, a three man 380 point army is not a competitive team.

[I would be very surprised if a squad of Gladiators was not on the way. Just one squad, almost regardless of it's abilities, will be enough to push him over into the realm of good units I think. Bonding wouldn't even be needed....just a reasonably cheap squad of melee figures...say 50-60 points, with some simple special power and decent base stats. That would be enough.

Bonding is not absolutely necessary, but would justify Saprtacus better. Besides there is a precedent with many other similar units.

Finally, Tae is arguably useful in ONE situation. After all, he only needs a castle and a set of snipers, which by the way already get a +2 attack from the castle. I'm UD on this one, Tae is and will always be worth 80 points to me.

Spartacus , as it stands now, is only worth about 80-100 points. As reaper says he isn't great at the moment.

[Taelord is very useful in a variety of situations.....as HJ and others say,

(nice jab) correction, he is "useful in a very particular and restricted situation=fact.

[he is NOT useful in a pre-made situation at all. He is also NOT useful in small armies because he wastes too many points.

agreed



[Taelord is VERY useful in castle defense and in large armies (750-800 or more points). The bigger the army, the more useful Taelord becomes. Taelord is at his best when fighting with Snipers, Blastatrons, or 4th Mass.

Arguably. But HS is best played in smaller armies (400 pts or so) and he is junk there. Those games are basically 90% of the games people play.

[Not every figure is useful in all situations....if Hasbro released a figure that was never useful, ever, I'd be the first to complain. But they haven't. Every single figure to date is useful in various situations. Every one. Certainly not all of them are right for pre-made games though.

There is a fine line between versatility and usefulness in ALL situations. I'm not calling for figs to be great at everything, simply calling to not have figures who are only useful in ONE situation. The Raelin example is golden. There's a figure who isn't great everywhere, but can be useful in some way in many situations. Meanwhile, Tae is only useful in the ONE situation. And not because he is all that awesome, but because snipers are already kick-butt atop a castle.

[As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.

Projecting are we? With all due respect, and because I know, or at least hope, you were joking, I think you are the one smoking my friend. I can't understand how you can consider that a useful team at all. Three heroes will lose almost always. The statistics are stacked against the gladiator team. Open your eyes man!

In comparing him more carefully with Marcus, I'd say maybe 120 then. He gives +1 on defense too and doesn't need adjacency. Although he does need all order markers to be on gladiators. Spart's stats are a little better on defense and attack but less on life and that almost, almost evens out. So, yeah, maybe I'd pay 120 for him.But I don't know, enhancing soldiers is way more useful than gladiators.

[countblah]

With all this discussion, I'm honestly thinking that Einar's squad of upcoming Kyrie are going to be Kyrie gladiators. Comon Flying gladiators that are beefed up by Spartacus. Say he's trash then.

[LilNewbie]

With all this discussion, I'm honestly thinking that Einar's squad of upcoming Kyrie are going to be Kyrie gladiators. Comon Flying gladiators that are beefed up by Spartacus. Say he's trash then.

Now that would be awesome! Nice idea...very potent.

Newb.

[countblah]

With all this discussion, I'm honestly thinking that Einar's squad of upcoming Kyrie are going to be Kyrie gladiators. Comon Flying gladiators that are beefed up by Spartacus. Say he's trash then.

Now that would be awesome! Nice idea...very potent.

Newb.

I can dream.

[Sweetcurse]

With all this discussion, I'm honestly thinking that Einar's squad of upcoming Kyrie are going to be Kyrie gladiators. Comon Flying gladiators that are beefed up by Spartacus. Say he's trash then.

Now then he would be awesome! Flying gladiators of doom!

[jcb231]

[quote=reapersaurus]how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

[I think he is nearly worth it and is currently draftable but as I say, ONLY if his two buddies fight with him and the map is suitable for melee battles. If he is drafted alone or on the wrong map he is worthless.

Sorry to disagree, a three man 380 point army is not a competitive team.

Did I ever say that the three Gladiators were my entire army? I don't think I did. ;-)

There would of course be additional units in that army.


[I would be very surprised if a squad of Gladiators was not on the way. Just one squad, almost regardless of it's abilities, will be enough to push him over into the realm of good units I think. Bonding wouldn't even be needed....just a reasonably cheap squad of melee figures...say 50-60 points, with some simple special power and decent base stats. That would be enough.

Bonding is not absolutely necessary, but would justify Saprtacus better. Besides there is a precedent with many other similar units.


Agreed, but I would prefer something new.


Finally, Tae is arguably useful in ONE situation. After all, he only needs a castle and a set of snipers, which by the way already get a +2 attack from the castle. I'm UD on this one, Tae is and will always be worth 80 points to me.

Spartacus , as it stands now, is only worth about 80-100 points. As reaper says he isn't great at the moment.

[Taelord is very useful in a variety of situations.....as HJ and others say,

(nice jab) correction, he is "useful in a very particular and restricted situation=fact.

[he is NOT useful in a pre-made situation at all. He is also NOT useful in small armies because he wastes too many points.

agreed

[Taelord is VERY useful in castle defense and in large armies (750-800 or more points). The bigger the army, the more useful Taelord becomes. Taelord is at his best when fighting with Snipers, Blastatrons, or 4th Mass.

Arguably. But HS is best played in smaller armies (400 pts or so) and he is junk there. Those games are basically 90% of the games people play.

If you like to argue it, go ahead, but Taelord is pretty darned sweet when you play the truly big battles, castle or not. Oh, and I can make up percentages too. ;-)



[Not every figure is useful in all situations....if Hasbro released a figure that was never useful, ever, I'd be the first to complain. But they haven't. Every single figure to date is useful in various situations. Every one. Certainly not all of them are right for pre-made games though.

There is a fine line between versatility and usefulness in ALL situations. I'm not calling for figs to be great at everything, simply calling to not have figures who are only useful in ONE situation. The Raelin example is golden. There's a figure who isn't great everywhere, but can be useful in some way in many situations. Meanwhile, Tae is only useful in the ONE situation. And not because he is all that awesome, but because snipers are already kick-butt atop a castle.


I totally disagree. I love that certain HS figures have very narrow windows of use. I like having true specialists in that way. Heck, it's not like we don't have enough figures that are good at all sorts of things. I actually hope for more specialists. Give me the unit that's only good at killing dragons on Tuesday while standing on lava and I'll be happy provided his price reflects that situtation. I think Taelord's cost is totally justified when he is used correctly. Correct use of Taelord involves high elevations or castles, high point value drafted army battles, high powered ranged units, or ideally all three. If one expects to use Taelord in other situations they will likely find him to be rather lacking. Just because you do not play those types of games does not make him a bad unit.


[As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.

Projecting are we? With all due respect, and because I know, or at least hope, you were joking, I think you are the one smoking my friend. I can't understand how you can consider that a useful team at all. Three heroes will lose almost always. The statistics are stacked against the gladiator team. Open your eyes man!

Eyes wide open friend. See earlier in the post where I say that of course three gladiators would not be the whole team.

And of course I'm joking about the smoking....we are talking about a toy, for chrissake! Nothing on these boards should ever be taken seriously! :-)


In comparing him more carefully with Marcus, I'd say maybe 120 then. He gives +1 on defense too and doesn't need adjacency. Although he does need all order markers to be on gladiators. Spart's stats are a little better on defense and attack but less on life and that almost, almost evens out. So, yeah, maybe I'd pay 120 for him.But I don't know, enhancing soldiers is way more useful than gladiators.

Spartacus is a tank that enhances Defense, Attack, and Movement. I'm not sure how that could possibly come in at 120 points. I think however that am I not going to be able to convince many folks of that until more gladiators come along....but you should be thinking along those lines anyway. Spartacus is obviously intended to work with other figures. That said, I think he is fairly close to a good price as is (160 would be as low as I'd go, and then I'd think he was a bargain).

[countblah]

Make no mistake that the units that Spartacus bumps up, namely Crixus, are pretty butch to begin with. Crixus' shield power, when enhanced by Spartacus, makes him pretty darn good.

[reapersaurus]

jcb - just one comment:

there IS one unit that is never useful for his points:

DW7000. :lol:

There is no way he can ever be used to likely do 100 points worth of beneficial effects to your team. He can be stopped by any number of smaller figures. Heck, draft one squad of Deathreavers and he'll be rendered useless, wasting order markers with his pathetic 3 attack.

[Thor]

Not every figure is useful in all situations....if Hasbro released a figure that was never useful, ever, I'd be the first to complain. But they haven't. Every single figure to date is useful in various situations. Every one. Certainly not all of them are right for pre-made games though.
I agree that every figures is good for at least something, but there are some figures that have such limited usefulness they get almost zero play time. DW7k for example. He sucks in basically all situations, yet he is an awesome counter to DW8k/DW9k and to a lesser extent Q9. He has an 85% chance to kill DW8k and 9k when he self destructs, yet cost 30 and 40 points less. On a 16 or higher he can kill Q9 who cost 80 more points then him. That's a 25% chance which isn't great, but not horrible either. He has a 60% chance to take away half Q9's life which is the equivalent to about 90 points.

Unfortunetly in games that don't include DW8k, 9k, or Q9 he isn't going to kill or damage his value in enemy units unless the person playing against 7k is being careless and leaving figures bunched together. That or if DW7k gets an 8 damage self-destruct, which he has a very small chance of doing. Also he is easily countered when you engage him with cheap squads that can get a single lucky roll and kill him. If played right though, you can thin out your enemy's units and get DW7k adjacent to hit 8k or 9k and he will really preform rather well. It's just a shame he has such limited use.

As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.
I would actually keep him at 200 but give him another ability that affects him, or he can use directly against enemies. If you just draft Spartacus and no other Gladiators he has NO specials basically.

[jcb231]

jcb - just one comment:

there IS one unit that is never useful for his points:

DW7000. :lol:

There is no way he can ever be used to likely do 100 points worth of beneficial effects to your team. He can be stopped by any number of smaller figures. Heck, draft one squad of Deathreavers and he'll be rendered useless, wasting order markers with his pathetic 3 attack.


I've always disagreed with you on this. I think DW7K can kill 100 points or more of enemy in a number of situations....one is against a Soulborg army, another is against any army that needs to stay clustered for effectiveness (Greeks, Romans, etc).

Also, getting him into position should rarely be done by walking him anywhere...that's asking for trouble! Carrying him with Brunak and/or Theracus is best, but you can also summon him or even throw him...that's the way to move the DW7K football downfield! :-)

As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.
I would actually keep him at 200 but give him another ability that affects him, or he can use directly against enemies. If you just draft Spartacus and no other Gladiators he has NO specials basically.

If anyone just drafts Spartacus and no other Gladiators they deserve to lose! That's almost as bad as people who try to play the Obsidians on non-lava maps....almost.

[jcb231]

Make no mistake that the units that Spartacus bumps up, namely Crixus, are pretty butch to begin with. Crixus' shield power, when enhanced by Spartacus, makes him pretty darn good.

Well said!

He is a great Einar figure. He's actually good on his own.

[Thor]

As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.
I would actually keep him at 200 but give him another ability that affects him, or he can use directly against enemies. If you just draft Spartacus and no other Gladiators he has NO specials basically.

If anyone just drafts Spartacus and no other Gladiators they deserve to lose! That's almost as bad as people who try to play the Obsidians on non-lava maps....almost.
Well at least if someone did draft Spartacus by himself, he wouldn't be nearly as bad because he would have SOMETHING besides his base stats to help him fight. Also it would make him inifnitly more useful if you draft him with the other two Gladiators and they died, leaving just Spartacus on the board. As is Spartacus has no specials at all if he is drafted alone, or once his two Gladiator buddies die.

[reapersaurus]

jcb - again, bad reasoning. (sorry)

You say that he's good against a DW army. Why?
DW armies will always have other figures, and since DW7K does not have Disengage, they can ALWAYS move up any figure they want to stop his ponderous advance.

Your other example is grouped armies : Greeks, Romans...
That's not a good example of his effectiveness, since the most figures he can engage (if every thing is perfect) is 5 (he has to be able to get INTO the circle, and anyway he realistically will never engage more than 3).

So if he takes out even 5 of those guys, that's a whopping 62.5 points, even when he doesn;t kill himself and all of his 100 points and does NOTHING. :roll:
There is simply no rational defense of the DW7000 unit design. It's broken in every way. He cannot practically do 100 points of benefit to his army.

[Rÿchean]

well he (dw7k) can in a 3way FFA when you are fighting on two fronts and his stealth dodge a$$ jumps into the fray; that is the one and only time I have seen him get his money's worth though.

[Thor]

jcb - again, bad reasoning. (sorry)

You say that he's good against a DW army. Why?
DW armies will always have other figures, and since DW7K does not have Disengage, they can ALWAYS move up any figure they want to stop his ponderous advance.

Your other example is grouped armies : Greeks, Romans...
That's not a good example of his effectiveness, since the most figures he can engage (if every thing is perfect) is 5 (he has to be able to get INTO the circle, and anyway he realistically will never engage more than 3).

So if he takes out even 5 of those guys, that's a whopping 62.5 points, even when he doesn;t kill himself and all of his 100 points and does NOTHING. :roll:
There is simply no rational defense of the DW7000 unit design. It's broken in every way. He cannot practically do 100 points of benefit to his army.
Like I said, use your other figures to try and thin out as many of your opponents figures as possible before sending in DW7k. Hopefully you will have cleared out enough that DW7k can engage and self-destruct on DW8k or DW9k and kill them. He also has an ok chance to kill Q9 out right, and a really good chance to do at least two damage and take half of Q9's health out. This is a great way to eliminate 30, 40, or 80 more points then DW7k cost.

This strategy wouldn't work against most other figures in the game though. A lot of the other heros are 100 points or less and have more then 1 life. Blowing up on Ne-Gok, for example, isn't going to be effective since even a 4 damage roll (25% chance) wouldn't finish him. And he also cost 90 points, 10 less then DW7k meaning even an 8 damage explosion isn't going to be effective becase you are still killing a figure that cost 10 points less then DW7k.

[Sweetcurse]

[quote=reapersaurus]how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

[I think he is nearly worth it and is currently draftable but as I say, ONLY if his two buddies fight with him and the map is suitable for melee battles. If he is drafted alone or on the wrong map he is worthless.




Sorry to disagree, a three man 380 point army is not a competitive team.

Did I ever say that the three Gladiators were my entire army? I don't think I did. ;-)

There would of course be additional units in that army.


[I would be very surprised if a squad of Gladiators was not on the way. Just one squad, almost regardless of it's abilities, will be enough to push him over into the realm of good units I think. Bonding wouldn't even be needed....just a reasonably cheap squad of melee figures...say 50-60 points, with some simple special power and decent base stats. That would be enough.

Bonding is not absolutely necessary, but would justify Saprtacus better. Besides there is a precedent with many other similar units.


Agreed, but I would prefer something new.


Finally, Tae is arguably useful in ONE situation. After all, he only needs a castle and a set of snipers, which by the way already get a +2 attack from the castle. I'm UD on this one, Tae is and will always be worth 80 points to me.

Spartacus , as it stands now, is only worth about 80-100 points. As reaper says he isn't great at the moment.

[Taelord is very useful in a variety of situations.....as HJ and others say,

(nice jab) correction, he is "useful in a very particular and restricted situation=fact.

[he is NOT useful in a pre-made situation at all. He is also NOT useful in small armies because he wastes too many points.

agreed

[Taelord is VERY useful in castle defense and in large armies (750-800 or more points). The bigger the army, the more useful Taelord becomes. Taelord is at his best when fighting with Snipers, Blastatrons, or 4th Mass.

Arguably. But HS is best played in smaller armies (400 pts or so) and he is junk there. Those games are basically 90% of the games people play.

If you like to argue it, go ahead, but Taelord is pretty darned sweet when you play the truly big battles, castle or not. Oh, and I can make up percentages too. ;-)



[Not every figure is useful in all situations....if Hasbro released a figure that was never useful, ever, I'd be the first to complain. But they haven't. Every single figure to date is useful in various situations. Every one. Certainly not all of them are right for pre-made games though.

There is a fine line between versatility and usefulness in ALL situations. I'm not calling for figs to be great at everything, simply calling to not have figures who are only useful in ONE situation. The Raelin example is golden. There's a figure who isn't great everywhere, but can be useful in some way in many situations. Meanwhile, Tae is only useful in the ONE situation. And not because he is all that awesome, but because snipers are already kick-butt atop a castle.


I totally disagree. I love that certain HS figures have very narrow windows of use. I like having true specialists in that way. Heck, it's not like we don't have enough figures that are good at all sorts of things. I actually hope for more specialists. Give me the unit that's only good at killing dragons on Tuesday while standing on lava and I'll be happy provided his price reflects that situtation. I think Taelord's cost is totally justified when he is used correctly. Correct use of Taelord involves high elevations or castles, high point value drafted army battles, high powered ranged units, or ideally all three. If one expects to use Taelord in other situations they will likely find him to be rather lacking. Just because you do not play those types of games does not make him a bad unit.


[As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.

Projecting are we? With all due respect, and because I know, or at least hope, you were joking, I think you are the one smoking my friend. I can't understand how you can consider that a useful team at all. Three heroes will lose almost always. The statistics are stacked against the gladiator team. Open your eyes man!

Eyes wide open friend. See earlier in the post where I say that of course three gladiators would not be the whole team.

And of course I'm joking about the smoking....we are talking about a toy, for chrissake! Nothing on these boards should ever be taken seriously! :-)


In comparing him more carefully with Marcus, I'd say maybe 120 then. He gives +1 on defense too and doesn't need adjacency. Although he does need all order markers to be on gladiators. Spart's stats are a little better on defense and attack but less on life and that almost, almost evens out. So, yeah, maybe I'd pay 120 for him.But I don't know, enhancing soldiers is way more useful than gladiators.

Spartacus is a tank that enhances Defense, Attack, and Movement. I'm not sure how that could possibly come in at 120 points. I think however that am I not going to be able to convince many folks of that until more gladiators come along....but you should be thinking along those lines anyway. Spartacus is obviously intended to work with other figures. That said, I think he is fairly close to a good price as is (160 would be as low as I'd go, and then I'd think he was a bargain).


Again, it would take at least another 200 points to make them good. But we agree that Spats will be well worth 200 with a common squad, so we're on the same page there.

I would like something new also, but c'mon, bonding with the 200 point fig is a must.

Tae will never justify 180 points to me, it's moot to argue it. As far as I'm concerned, no matter how many points you have, you can always spend the 180 in better things than Taelord.

But prety much all specialized figs see very little play, obsidian, DW7K, even Dzu teh, and those guys are pretty rockin. Extreme specialization is fine, as long as it is cheap. In this kind of game, specialization , specially extreme one, must be very cheap. Or at least not 180. Seems like you are proving my point, if Tae is so specialized, even if he is good at that one thing, then his cost needs to reflect that, hence 80 points for me. Even with disengage. Compare him to Concan, Tae has less Att and Def, but gets diesengage, kind of even out in a way. Tae's aura is better in that is helps more people, but all together, he isn't worth much more than Concan. He is also slower than Raelin. If you ask me, it's crap thet he can aura ranged units, but that is another issue. I would have no problem with Tae having his aura and disengage for 80 pts.

[happyjosiah]

Gotta agree with reaper on the 7k. But I have found every other unit situationally useful.

[countblah]

DW7K was really useful in the scenario: which team can commit suicide the fastest. everyone else had to very slowly walk into the lava, or off a cliff.

[Point Blanks]

I bet I could win that battle.

400 points

Spartacus
Taelord

Bring on the Hot Lava Death!

[countblah]

Or how about:

Deathwalker 7000: 100 pts.
Spartacus: 200 pts.
Jerry Can of Gasoline: 100 pts.

You can tell where I'm going here.

[jcb231]

jcb - again, bad reasoning. (sorry)

You say that he's good against a DW army. Why?
DW armies will always have other figures, and since DW7K does not have Disengage, they can ALWAYS move up any figure they want to stop his ponderous advance.

I am arguing with you, but not in a mean-spirited way, so keep in mind this is nothing personal.

But...if you play DW7K like a chump, of course you are going to hate him. Why in the heck would I march him straight up against an advancing army, all alone? What possible sense does that make? I might as well say that Raelin sucks because she can't charge a fixed position of 4th Mass, or that the Microcorp suck because they can't cross molten lava. If you play a unit wrong, it's going to suck, everytime.

You say your opponent can ALWAYS intercept his advance. Um, okay, assuming I am doing no interference of my own perhaps, but that's like saying the other football team can ALWAYS tackle my runner. Sure they can, assuming I stand there and stare at the field or count clouds and give him no blockers. If I want to get DW7K to a target, I need to run interference OR get him to the target by alternate means, hence my mention of carrying and summoning before. It's a two player game (or more, as Rychean astutely points out)....both players are moving, obviously, and so you can act and react and not get bogged down if you play it well. As Rychean hints at, this gets easier with more players...DW7K's value goes up in three or four or more player games.

But, let's say you were 100% correct, for the sake of argument. A 100 point walking target wouldn't be a bad draft either....if, as you say, my opponent is going to be focusing all this energy on tying him down and killing him, then that opponent is not attacking my main force, and I can act without retribution. So even if I agreed with you, which I don't, I still don't see how DW7K is a bad thing.


Your other example is grouped armies : Greeks, Romans...
That's not a good example of his effectiveness, since the most figures he can engage (if every thing is perfect) is 5 (he has to be able to get INTO the circle, and anyway he realistically will never engage more than 3).

So if he takes out even 5 of those guys, that's a whopping 62.5 points, even when he doesn;t kill himself and all of his 100 points and does NOTHING. :roll:
There is simply no rational defense of the DW7000 unit design. It's broken in every way. He cannot practically do 100 points of benefit to his army.

Never realistically engage more than three? Wow. I know you don't like the little bomber but I think you need to play some more games with him. If you couple him with Jotun you can engage more guys with a final toss...I know, I've done it, multiple times. Heck, partner him with Saylind and he can get more licks in then three.

While I do use him against clustered troops (even if he doesn't kill them, a fearful opponent will often un-cluster, eliminating boosts and thus making the draft worthwhile by making his army breakable), my main use is still as a counter-DW unit, a use I think he can excel at if played correctly (as in, not marching him straight into the advancing army!).

well he (dw7k) can in a 3way FFA when you are fighting on two fronts and his stealth dodge a$$ jumps into the fray; that is the one and only time I have seen him get his money's worth though.

Good point....you may have only seen him get his money's worth once doing this, but I've seen him do MAJOR damage in multiplayer games. The more players, the better.

[jcb231]

[quote=reapersaurus]how can the vote POSSIBLY be 63% value?

As of now, he;s the worst-costed unit in the game, without a doubt or debate possible (IMO obviously).

You can't base Spartacus worth on future possible figs - a judgment is based on what;s out there NOW - and that's not remotely worth 200 points.

[I think he is nearly worth it and is currently draftable but as I say, ONLY if his two buddies fight with him and the map is suitable for melee battles. If he is drafted alone or on the wrong map he is worthless.




Sorry to disagree, a three man 380 point army is not a competitive team.

Did I ever say that the three Gladiators were my entire army? I don't think I did. ;-)

There would of course be additional units in that army.


[I would be very surprised if a squad of Gladiators was not on the way. Just one squad, almost regardless of it's abilities, will be enough to push him over into the realm of good units I think. Bonding wouldn't even be needed....just a reasonably cheap squad of melee figures...say 50-60 points, with some simple special power and decent base stats. That would be enough.

Bonding is not absolutely necessary, but would justify Saprtacus better. Besides there is a precedent with many other similar units.


Agreed, but I would prefer something new.


Finally, Tae is arguably useful in ONE situation. After all, he only needs a castle and a set of snipers, which by the way already get a +2 attack from the castle. I'm UD on this one, Tae is and will always be worth 80 points to me.

Spartacus , as it stands now, is only worth about 80-100 points. As reaper says he isn't great at the moment.

[Taelord is very useful in a variety of situations.....as HJ and others say,

(nice jab) correction, he is "useful in a very particular and restricted situation=fact.

[he is NOT useful in a pre-made situation at all. He is also NOT useful in small armies because he wastes too many points.

agreed

[Taelord is VERY useful in castle defense and in large armies (750-800 or more points). The bigger the army, the more useful Taelord becomes. Taelord is at his best when fighting with Snipers, Blastatrons, or 4th Mass.

Arguably. But HS is best played in smaller armies (400 pts or so) and he is junk there. Those games are basically 90% of the games people play.

If you like to argue it, go ahead, but Taelord is pretty darned sweet when you play the truly big battles, castle or not. Oh, and I can make up percentages too. ;-)



[Not every figure is useful in all situations....if Hasbro released a figure that was never useful, ever, I'd be the first to complain. But they haven't. Every single figure to date is useful in various situations. Every one. Certainly not all of them are right for pre-made games though.

There is a fine line between versatility and usefulness in ALL situations. I'm not calling for figs to be great at everything, simply calling to not have figures who are only useful in ONE situation. The Raelin example is golden. There's a figure who isn't great everywhere, but can be useful in some way in many situations. Meanwhile, Tae is only useful in the ONE situation. And not because he is all that awesome, but because snipers are already kick-butt atop a castle.


I totally disagree. I love that certain HS figures have very narrow windows of use. I like having true specialists in that way. Heck, it's not like we don't have enough figures that are good at all sorts of things. I actually hope for more specialists. Give me the unit that's only good at killing dragons on Tuesday while standing on lava and I'll be happy provided his price reflects that situtation. I think Taelord's cost is totally justified when he is used correctly. Correct use of Taelord involves high elevations or castles, high point value drafted army battles, high powered ranged units, or ideally all three. If one expects to use Taelord in other situations they will likely find him to be rather lacking. Just because you do not play those types of games does not make him a bad unit.


[As for Spartacus being 80-100 points? What are you smoking? At most, I'd drop him 40 points...AT MOST. And that would be stretching it.

Projecting are we? With all due respect, and because I know, or at least hope, you were joking, I think you are the one smoking my friend. I can't understand how you can consider that a useful team at all. Three heroes will lose almost always. The statistics are stacked against the gladiator team. Open your eyes man!

Eyes wide open friend. See earlier in the post where I say that of course three gladiators would not be the whole team.

And of course I'm joking about the smoking....we are talking about a toy, for chrissake! Nothing on these boards should ever be taken seriously! :-)


In comparing him more carefully with Marcus, I'd say maybe 120 then. He gives +1 on defense too and doesn't need adjacency. Although he does need all order markers to be on gladiators. Spart's stats are a little better on defense and attack but less on life and that almost, almost evens out. So, yeah, maybe I'd pay 120 for him.But I don't know, enhancing soldiers is way more useful than gladiators.

Spartacus is a tank that enhances Defense, Attack, and Movement. I'm not sure how that could possibly come in at 120 points. I think however that am I not going to be able to convince many folks of that until more gladiators come along....but you should be thinking along those lines anyway. Spartacus is obviously intended to work with other figures. That said, I think he is fairly close to a good price as is (160 would be as low as I'd go, and then I'd think he was a bargain).


Again, it would take at least another 200 points to make them good. But we agree that Spats will be well worth 200 with a common squad, so we're on the same page there.

I would like something new also, but c'mon, bonding with the 200 point fig is a must.

Tae will never justify 180 points to me, it's moot to argue it. As far as I'm concerned, no matter how many points you have, you can always spend the 180 in better things than Taelord.

But prety much all specialized figs see very little play, obsidian, DW7K, even Dzu teh, and those guys are pretty rockin. Extreme specialization is fine, as long as it is cheap. In this kind of game, specialization , specially extreme one, must be very cheap. Or at least not 180. Seems like you are proving my point, if Tae is so specialized, even if he is good at that one thing, then his cost needs to reflect that, hence 80 points for me. Even with disengage. Compare him to Concan, Tae has less Att and Def, but gets diesengage, kind of even out in a way. Tae's aura is better in that is helps more people, but all together, he isn't worth much more than Concan. He is also slower than Raelin. If you ask me, it's crap thet he can aura ranged units, but that is another issue. I would have no problem with Tae having his aura and disengage for 80 pts.

80 points? Wow....he would be drafted in every game ever at that cost!

I think making specialized units super-cheap is the absolute wrong argument. Taelord is EXCELLENT atop a castle with ranged units. Frustratingly so. He is EXCELLENT in large point draft battles. Well worth his 180 points. Making him cheaper would make him a no-brainer draft in those situations, and nothing in this game should ever be a no-brainer draft I think. There needs to be thought behind the draft....180 points is about the value that makes you really think about using the Tae-man....it's the value that makes you only use him in the right situations.

You mention Obsidians....worthless on a map without lava, or any map in which lava is not a main feature. Well worth 100 points when the map encourages holding a lava position or racing through a firey area, or when a lava zone is the best attack vantage point. All depends on the map. On a map with large molten fields they can be absolutely awesome. I've played more than one game where they were literally invincible....molten field combined with no ranged figures left for my opponent. I could move about and throw lava at him, but he couldn't reach me at all without dying.

Dzu-tehs are decent outside of snow, but drafting them on a non-snow map is somewhat questionable, as you are paying for powers you can't use. In snow with glacier mountains they are awesome....in snow fields without glaciers they are still pretty good, especially if you need to get somewhere quickly. Outside the snow they're sort of ho-hum, but can hold their own when they need to.

[Point Blanks]

To add on to what jcb231 said: A unit's point value is not based on how many units he can destroy. While it is vary rare to do +100 points of damage with a self-destruct, he instead can be used as a suppourt unit. The THREAT of this unit causes your opponent to change his battle tactics. With the use of a Carrier, Saylind, or Deathreavers can really boost his power. Also, when you self-destruct, make it worthwhile. Put it near Hero's with low life or high cost squads. Even if the self-destruct doesn't do the 100 points, you can rest assure that the other points could be accounted for the change in strategy your opponent(s) had to use to cope with him.

This might seem a little weird, but I just had an idea behind point costs. I used to just think of them as just a piece of a jigsaw puzzle, that was implemented just to keep the armies balanced. Now, I see that the point cost of a unit affects the way you play them. For instance, you would play the Deathreavers a lot differently if the were worth 60 points instead of 40. I think this is the rationale to have units like Spartacus and Taelord at such a high price. Because they are at this high of a price, they have to be played accordingly.

All units have the power(s) that make the figures worthwhile to use in battle. They also have a weakness, that puts some checks and balances into the game. Taelord has the awesome power to (potentially) boost your whole army's attack by one. His downfall is that he cannot fair well in combat, AND his point value restricts what you can and can't use with the rest of your army. In high point games, when defending a castle, and when using units that don't have to move that much are all good examples of when Taelord is good to use. However, when you do not use him for these purposes, he does not become worth his point value. However, because of this, many people complain he is overcosted. I will say that (for any and all of the units) that if you use them wrong they won't be worth their point value. If you run in DED and engage an enemy with him, he won't be worth his point value. If you charge your melee units in the range of the AE, they won't be worth their points.

If you do need to "fix" the units, I suggest this:

DW7K: Give him Disengage
Taelord In games of 500 or less, and you aren't the the castle defender: deadly strike and Shields of Valor
Spartacus: Melee defense +3 and Stealth Dodge

[Thor]

jcb - again, bad reasoning. (sorry)

You say that he's good against a DW army. Why?
DW armies will always have other figures, and since DW7K does not have Disengage, they can ALWAYS move up any figure they want to stop his ponderous advance.

But...if you play DW7K like a chump, of course you are going to hate him. Why in the heck would I march him straight up against an advancing army, all alone? What possible sense does that make? I might as well say that Raelin sucks because she can't charge a fixed position of 4th Mass, or that the Microcorp suck because they can't cross molten lava. If you play a unit wrong, it's going to suck, everytime.

You say your opponent can ALWAYS intercept his advance. Um, okay, assuming I am doing no interference of my own perhaps, but that's like saying the other football team can ALWAYS tackle my runner. Sure they can, assuming I stand there and stare at the field or count clouds and give him no blockers. If I want to get DW7K to a target, I need to run interference OR get him to the target by alternate means, hence my mention of carrying and summoning before. It's a two player game (or more, as Rychean astutely points out)....both players are moving, obviously, and so you can act and react and not get bogged down if you play it well. As Rychean hints at, this gets easier with more players...DW7K's value goes up in three or four or more player games.
DW7k is especially good against a DW army for reasons I already stated earlier in this thread. DW7k has a great chance (85%) to do 2 damage or more to an enemy figure without allowing them to roll defense dice. Since all Deathwalker units are limited to 1 life but have high defense to help them deflect most attacks, self-destruct is the perfect counter. DW7k also cost less then 8k and 9k so you are losing less points then your opponent.

DW7k isn't good against most other armies because he has a very low chance to kill the other 100+ point heros in the game. He won't be able to engage more then a few figures even with help in the way of a teleportation, carry, etc. If I see you coming at me with Theracus and carrying DW7k along with him to a group of my troops I am going to either A) move the heck outta the way, or B) move a figure or two up to engage you to stop you from advancing into the group. DW7k can be stopped too easily from bombing a cluster of figures this way. He also cost too many points and has too low of a chance to do decent damage to make him good for bombing most single target heros. The other DW units are special cases where DW7k actually performs really well when pitted against them.

DW7k really should have had his point value lowered (to around 75), his self-destruct damage and/or the odds of doing it upped, or been given disengage. He also could have been given multiple life to make the time when you should self-destruct more apparent and more useful. You never know when the next attack will finish DW7k off. As is he can be fighting at 100% one turn and the next you decide to blow up and lose a 100 point figure. The more I think about it though, the more I think disengage would have been a great addition to this figure. If he had disengage he could still slip by enemies trying to engage him and blow a small cluster of figures up before they could move or tie him up in combat.


Never realistically engage more than three? Wow. I know you don't like the little bomber but I think you need to play some more games with him. If you couple him with Jotun you can engage more guys with a final toss...I know, I've done it, multiple times. Heck, partner him with Saylind and he can get more licks in then three.
I have heard others bring up this strategy too. Now correct me if I am wrong, but if you were to throw DW7k into a group of figures wouldn't he have a 50% chance of recieving 2 wounds from the throw damage? That is a 50% chance he will die and you will lose 100 points without even getting to self-destruct or anything. Of course if DW7k is being thrown onto a level higher then Jotun's height, or water, you have no problem. But then how many figures are going to be clumped up on a cliff taller then Jotun and within 4 spaces so DW7k can be thrown into the middle of them? Or how many are going to be clusterd all in a circle in the water with one space in the middle of them all free for DW7k to land in? Very few I would guess.

[jcb231]

Of course you would never throw DW7K unless you were throwing him somewhere he wouldn't take damage....I thought that went without saying. ;-)

I still say that a DW7K can be brought in close on an army because BOTH PLAYERS are running interference....you say you will intercept him....I say you will TRY to intercept him. Maybe you succeed, maybe you fail. If he's flying 9 spaces or more around the map at a time (Theracus plus Venoc Warlord) you're going to have a tough time, friend.

And also, as stated elsewhere, if you are focusing all yor attacks on DW7K, you're not attacking the rest of my army.

[Thor]

Of course you would never throw DW7K unless you were throwing him somewhere he wouldn't take damage....I thought that went without saying. ;-)
Well I assumed you were taking the chance. You made it sound like you could just pick him up during any number of times during a game and flip him in a group of your opponent's figures. That's not going to happen though. First off if you want to throw him and not risk losing him it has to be in the water, or on to a cliff that is at least 11 tiles high. I don't recall many games where clusters of figures have ascended an 11+ high cliff and are all standing near the edge in a clump. It takes several turns to even get one non-flying squad up something that high. Secondly, you will almost NEVER see your opponent making a circle of figures with one spot open right in the middle of them all. While this is a good set up to really put the hurt on your opponent using DW7k, in reality the chances to do this are going to be next to zero.

I still say that a DW7K can be brought in close on an army because BOTH PLAYERS are running interference....you say you will intercept him....I say you will TRY to intercept him. Maybe you succeed, maybe you fail. If he's flying 9 spaces or more around the map at a time (Theracus plus Venoc Warlord) you're going to have a tough time, friend.
No, not really. The flaw with this strategy is you are making it sound as if both you and your opponent are starting somewhere and racing to get to a glyph or a lone figure out in the middle of no where. That's not the case. You are most likely going to be flying Theracus and DW7k right into the thick of your opponents army to bomb your target. Your opponent will most likely have squad figures placed all over to easily intercept and stop you. DW7k either has to get an 8 damage explosion, hit DW8k/9k, or blow up a huge group of squads or heros to kill his value in enemies.

And also, as stated elsewhere, if you are focusing all yor attacks on DW7K, you're not attacking the rest of my army.
That's the thing though, without disengage it doesn't take all your foocus on DW7k to stop him. All you have to do is take one figure with ok defense, a Roman Legionnaire or two for example, and engage DW7k. He will be tied down in combat unitl he kills the Legionnaires or until he tries to disengage and takes a 50% chance of dying.

[reapersaurus]

Secondly, you will almost NEVER see your opponent making a circle of figures with one spot open right in the middle of them all. While this is a good set up to really put the hurt on your opponent using DW7k, in reality the chances to do this are going to be next to zero. Shhhhhh - we don't want to break reality for him. :lol:

Seriously, jcb - how could more than 3 figures practically become engaged by DW7K?
I'm fascinated at how that could possibly happen in a real game.
When was the last time you saw more than the half-arc that allows for 3 engagements to happen? Why would anyone bring that 4th figure around, enclosing the arc, much less a 5th that leaves a nice one-space entryway to allow DW7K convenient access to blow them all up?
Someone would have to be TRYING to lure DW7K somewhere if he ever put more than 3 figures that could become engaged at once.

Oh - and your ASSumption of DW7K, Venoc Warlord + Theracus is now 260 points you've dedicated. Hell, your opponent could completely ignore them, let you blow up 80 or so points worth of figs at best while killing the other 140 points and you're left with a crappy army.
260 points???! :shock:
That's a hell of a lot of points to dedicate to an amazingly-simple-to-stop meaneuver - that has a 15% chance of doing nothing while costing you all those turns and 100 points. :!:

But I'm also smiling when typing this, so I totally agree with you when you say "I am arguing with you, but not in a mean-spirited way, so keep in mind this is nothing personal. " :thumbsup:

I guess this is just proof that even a unit as blatantly badly-designed as DW7K will have people illogically (IMO) defending it - it doesn;t matter HOW objectively prove-ably bad an official unit is, someone will defend its merits. :headshake:

[jcb231]

Well, to each his own then. I'll continue killing troops with DW7K and you'll continue not killing troops with him.

As for the 260 point thing, it's not like I can't use Theracus or Saylind or other troops after DW7K blows up.

As for the engaging more than three thing, I'm still shocked that you're not able to do this routinely. Different play styles I guess.

As for interference, I'm sorry, but unless you guys are playing in a shoebox sized map, a flying Theracus is going to be tough to catch. Just hit high point after high point.

[Thor]

As for interference, I'm sorry, but unless you guys are playing in a shoebox sized map, a flying Theracus is going to be tough to catch. Just hit high point after high point.
But that's the thing man, we arn't trying to catch him. If that was the goal then yes, he would be very difficult to get. The fact of the matter is he is gonig to be flying AT your troops to try and bomb something. If he is coming at you, you can send a few figures ahead of your main cluster and easily hold him up in engagement.

[jcb231]

As for interference, I'm sorry, but unless you guys are playing in a shoebox sized map, a flying Theracus is going to be tough to catch. Just hit high point after high point.
But that's the thing man, we arn't trying to catch him. If that was the goal then yes, he would be very difficult to get. The fact of the matter is he is gonig to be flying AT your troops to try and bomb something. If he is coming at you, you can send a few figures ahead of your main cluster and easily hold him up in engagement.

But a figure flying nine spaces, even if he is heading kinda towards your army, can be hard to get...again, unless you are playing on a very flat map or a very small map. A large, well sculpted map will provide plenty of good landing points for Theracus and should have great approach paths to the enemy army from many angles. Try "easily" holding me up with your land-based figures that can only climb a few spaces at a time as I whiz through the air from high point to high point, water tile to water tile, and every difficult-to-access-point in between. By the time you spend two or three turns getting to me I'll be long gone again, moving towards my targets.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree and move on.

[Thor]

But again, I don't have to climb those mountains or cross that water to get you, that's not my goal. My goal is to stop you from engaging multiple figures of mine and blowing them away. All I have to do is simply have to wait at the edge of the water or that cliff with a few figures and tie you up before you can reach my main force and bomb them. A squad or two of figures can form a huge parimeter. There are plenty of cheap, fast units that can do this that cost much less the DW7k and can hold him up for several turns. The Deathreavers and Gruts are two prime examples.

[Chimpy]

But again, I don't have to climb those mountains or cross that water to get you, that's not my goal. My goal is to stop you from engaging multiple figures of mine and blowing them away. All I have to do is simply have to wait at the edge of the water or that cliff with a few figures and tie you up before you can reach my main force and bomb them. A squad or two of figures can form a huge parimeter. There are plenty of cheap, fast units that can do this that cost much less the DW7k and can hold him up for several turns. The Deathreavers and Gruts are two prime examples.

Well then I would think that you save DW7 for the end, when all that is left are those big guys who had enough health to last the battle. Send DW7 up against the enemy first, is well.... suicide.

[countblah]

Hey dudes, Spartacus is the best point value out of any miniature in the game. He's so worth it!

[madmanmuzik]

Even if you can easily stop DW7k with an interception net, the fact that you will generally choose to try to intercept him is significant. He tends to funnel you into a particular strategy, or a particular deployment pattern, which can then be countered. Just his presence on the board cuts the usefulness of figs that have powers that affect adjacent friendlies. Not even because he can necessarily take them out, but just because you think twice about clumping them. Not only that, but the interception net itself is an easily counterable tactic. A bunch of weak units on the fringes of you army are easy pickings for powerful ranged units. And the way that you have to space them out is conducive to multiple-attacking heroes or wild swing types. Not to mention, unless you make a solid wall (which is an awful lot of points and activations just to stop DW7k), Theracus could just take a passing swipe.

That all said, I don't usually pick DW7k much, but that's mostly just because I don't pick any of the Deathwalkers very much. Too much luck involved. The only thing I'd want changed on 7k (aside from general adjustments to Deathwalkers in general) is disengage. If he could disengage, he'd be equally as well balanced as the other Deathwalkers.

[Chimpy]

Even if you can easily stop DW7k with an interception net, the fact that you will generally choose to try to intercept him is significant. He tends to funnel you into a particular strategy, or a particular deployment pattern, which can then be countered. Just his presence on the board cuts the usefulness of figs that have powers that affect adjacent friendlies. Not even because he can necessarily take them out, but just because you think twice about clumping them. Not only that, but the interception net itself is an easily counterable tactic. A bunch of weak units on the fringes of you army are easy pickings for powerful ranged units. And the way that you have to space them out is conducive to multiple-attacking heroes or wild swing types. Not to mention, unless you make a solid wall (which is an awful lot of points and activations just to stop DW7k), Theracus could just take a passing swipe.

That all said, I don't usually pick DW7k much, but that's mostly just because I don't pick any of the Deathwalkers very much. Too much luck involved. The only thing I'd want changed on 7k (aside from general adjustments to Deathwalkers in general) is disengage. If he could disengage, he'd be equally as well balanced as the other Deathwalkers.

Very well said. I think that a Braxas-DW7 combo would work well according to this stategy. Sure let them make a net of Gruts. I will just acid breath them away.

[countblah]

Dude, I posted a clearly inflammatory post to get this thread back on track. Will you just take the bait and we can get back to Spartacus-bashing? We have a separate thread for the DW7K suxx. Somehow, the vitriol crept over here.

[madmanmuzik]

I think it's obvious that Spartacus is overcosted for now. He has an amazing ability, and almost nothing to go with it. As soon as he gets a Gladiator squad, he'll get drafted very frequently. For now, though, he's one of those figs you only really draft if you're kind of messing around. I'm still not voting in the poll, since I don't think he's TRASH per se, but rather he's waiting to see his true value. Still, he's not really worth it as of now, unless you're playing 1000pt armies or something.

Also, Chimpy, I don't even think Braxas is required. She'd be overkill for a bunch of blade gruts. Nilf would maybe even work better, or you could go DW8k or Brunak, too. Brunak can help carry also, so that's bonus.

Although I've changed my mind. DW7k is rendered completely obsolete by Deadeye Dan. His Uller Enhanced Rifle can hit 7k, since he's medium. Yeah, 7k is worthless. ^_^

[countblah]

He's at his best when you're playing 200 point skirmishes.

[jcb231]

Although I've changed my mind. DW7k is rendered completely obsolete by Deadeye Dan. His Uller Enhanced Rifle can hit 7k, since he's medium. Yeah, 7k is worthless. ^_^

One should never pick DW7K early in the draft for this very reason....he should always be a late pick, when your opponent's options for counters are low.


I think that a Braxas-DW7 combo would work well according to this stategy. Sure let them make a net of Gruts. I will just acid breath them away.

Braxas does nothing for DW7K because he doesn't have carry. DW7K would have to walk on his own which is almost always a bad bad thing. 7K needs a shuttlebus like Brunak or Theracus.

[dickflea]

He will be good only if there are other squads or heros that can support him or he can support.

[Thor]

Even if you can easily stop DW7k with an interception net, the fact that you will generally choose to try to intercept him is significant. He tends to funnel you into a particular strategy, or a particular deployment pattern, which can then be countered. Just his presence on the board cuts the usefulness of figs that have powers that affect adjacent friendlies. Not even because he can necessarily take them out, but just because you think twice about clumping them. Not only that, but the interception net itself is an easily counterable tactic. A bunch of weak units on the fringes of you army are easy pickings for powerful ranged units. And the way that you have to space them out is conducive to multiple-attacking heroes or wild swing types. Not to mention, unless you make a solid wall (which is an awful lot of points and activations just to stop DW7k), Theracus could just take a passing swipe.
In games I often find myself clumping small forces of figures together and moving them ahead of my main force. If I saw you put all your order markers on Theracus and DW7k I am not going to simply let you fly in and get that clump. I am going to move a few figures out to try and intercept you. One, maybe two or three figures. It simply isn't possible to fly around them all and hit the clump of figures behind if I am moving all around. While 9 move is nice, it's not enough to get around 5 or 6 move figures when you are flying at them, I am sorry.

And yes Theracus could just take a passing swipe, but that's gonna be 1 of his 3 health gone. Who is to say I won't have range figures either, like the 4th Mass taking shots at him for 2 rounds before you can get in place? Chances are good Theracus won't survive that.

You guys are giving all these examples of how DW7k can be good, but the problem is things arn't going to work perfectly and you arn't going to be able to have all these opportunities available. Your opponent should be reacting to you if he sees markers on Theracus and DW7k. You guys also keep giving the example of Theracus with 9 move. You do realize thats 265 points just to try and make DW7k more manueverable and to try to get him to blow up his worth in enemies figures, right? That's a LOT of fricken points. There are so many better figures you can choose to accomplish the same goal, but do it much more efficiently. Most of the other options don't have a 15% of killing themselves and not hurting any enemies too.

Although I've changed my mind. DW7k is rendered completely obsolete by Deadeye Dan. His Uller Enhanced Rifle can hit 7k, since he's medium. Yeah, 7k is worthless. ^_^
This is another point I didn't even bother to touch on. Besides being incredibly hard to position so he can do his worth in damage, or really being much of a threat, DW7k also has that major weakness his larger brothers don't. He is medium sized so all those abilities that prevent you from rolling defense dice work on him. In addition to Dan, Murphy and Me-Burq can also bring his defense down to 0 and take him out with 1 skull.

[Chimpy]

Again, Dw7 is only useful at the very end of the game where only Jotun and krug are left to fight. Using him in the beganing is the worst thing to do. Sure it never really comes down to that in a games too often (most of the games I have played one player quibkly dominates the other) but if it does DW7 is your guy.

[thehandofzarquon]

Again, Dw7 is only useful at the very end of the game where only Jotun and krug are left to fight. Using him in the beganing is the worst thing to do. Sure it never really comes down to that in a games too often (most of the games I have played one player quibkly dominates the other) but if it does DW7 is your guy.How can he help then? He's only got 3 attack, and his supra-mis-wired Self-Destruct kills him too, and that's a draw or a lose if DW7k doesn't kill Jotun/Krug with the attack...

Plus, Jotun can just throw him to death.

[Chimpy]

Again, Dw7 is only useful at the very end of the game where only Jotun and krug are left to fight. Using him in the beganing is the worst thing to do. Sure it never really comes down to that in a games too often (most of the games I have played one player quibkly dominates the other) but if it does DW7 is your guy.How can he help then? He's only got 3 attack, and his supra-mis-wired Self-Destruct kills him too, and that's a draw or a lose if DW7k doesn't kill Jotun/Krug with the attack...

Plus, Jotun can just throw him to death.

My plan is depent on the scenario where DW7 is not your last guy, just one of the last guys. Your opponent might have Mimring with 4 life and a two Aubriens and you will have DW7 and Drake with 2 life left. (hypothetical of course.) You use DW7 to neutralize said big hero and finish off the squad with whatever is left. Again this is very conditional but it does give DW7 a useful role.

[reapersaurus]

DW7K's useful role is as a walk-on in Disneyland.
Cause that's the only place where he's viable. :lol:

Thor - you keep pointing out the obvious (that Theracus can't simply fly DW7K over an entire army to get him where he wants to go) but jcb (and apparently others) just don;t get it.

How bout this little fact-oid : All you have to do is engage DW7K once, and Theracus can't Carry him.
:lol:

But since using DW7K is only in fantasy-land, I guess this factoid won;t make any difference to the completely-unrealistic and impractical examples being mentioned of when he's "effective". [/rant]

[Thor]

My plan is depent on the scenario where DW7 is not your last guy, just one of the last guys. Your opponent might have Mimring with 4 life and a two Aubriens and you will have DW7 and Drake with 2 life left. (hypothetical of course.) You use DW7 to neutralize said big hero and finish off the squad with whatever is left. Again this is very conditional but it does give DW7 a useful role.
The plan would be a lot better if DW7k had a better chance to kill Mimring. As is though, even with this plan that is suppose to be in your favor your opponent is actually going to be the one with the upper hand. DW7k only has a 25% chance to kill Mimring. He has a 60% chance to only do two damage to Mimring which would bring him down to 2 life, and a 15% chance not to do any damage at all. Chances are good that you will only do 2 damage to Mimring, leaving him and the 2 Aubrien Archers to face Drake who will almost surely lose if he only has 2 life left. I dunno about you but I would have rather had another 100 point hero in place of DW7k for this senario, one with 5 life and some decent attack that could do much more damage to Mimring without killing himself in the process.

[jaques]

I've always just assumed DW7k was meant to be a counter-draft to his big brothers, especially now that the Blastatrons present yet another "clumping" strategy with DW9k.

But this is all beside the point. Isn't the real question, "Is Spartacus worth twice as much as DW7k?" :wink:

[madmanmuzik]

In games I often find myself clumping small forces of figures together and moving them ahead of my main force. If I saw you put all your order markers on Theracus and DW7k I am not going to simply let you fly in and get that clump. I am going to move a few figures out to try and intercept you. One, maybe two or three figures. It simply isn't possible to fly around them all and hit the clump of figures behind if I am moving all around. While 9 move is nice, it's not enough to get around 5 or 6 move figures when you are flying at them, I am sorry.

My point wasn't that he could get by. Actually, DW7k is much more useful unexploded than actually exploding because of the way he changes the way you play predictable. All this talk of how easy it is to stop him with a couple simple tactics is EXACTLY MY POINT. All it takes is and X and one actual OM to keep the threat of Theracus + DW7k going. If you're not using Theracus, it's even more simple to keep open the threat of 7k. And the threat is all it takes. While you're moving your squads well in advance of the rest of your troops to try to counter, I'm picking them off. I never even have to move 7k for him to be useful, because of the way you have to play, simply due to the threat of 7k.

I'm not saying he's not expensive, though. I'm just saying he isn't abosultely worthless.

[reapersaurus]

I'm not saying he's not expensive, though. I'm just saying he isn't abosultely worthless.Fair enough.

You feel the effect of his threat is worth the 100 points.

I flatly, do not.

Something to agree to disagree on.

[StealthSuitStanley]

Really, if his Inspiration affected himself (thus making him 6 move, 7 Attack, and 5 defense while inspired!) AND he had a common squad to affect... I'd say he definetly would be worth the 200 points. But at the moment... I wouldn't draft him.

That sums it up right there!

[Cavalier]

Really, if his Inspiration affected himself (thus making him 6 move, 7 Attack, and 5 defense while inspired!) AND he had a common squad to affect... I'd say he definetly would be worth the 200 points. But at the moment... I wouldn't draft him.

That sums it up right there! :reaper: Necromancy (last post in September), that sums it up right there :wink:

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, StealthSuitStanley!

On behalf of our well trained and camoflauged community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

As a new member, you can begin your journey on the path to the fellowship, praise and respect of your Heroscapers peers by checking out this announcement: http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

~Aldin, I am Spartacus!

[Footlad79]

they should make some more Gladiators, especially a unique squad and a common squad

[GIR]

He will be helpful if you draft him but why waste 200pts? I voted trash until maybe a Gladiator squad will show him the light.

[dragonfire9788]

Ah. I remember this thread. My first thread and second post.

Anyway, I remember voting value, because he could be dangerous in a big game. Just like Tealord.

[Snotwalker 8000]

I enjoyed reading through this thread on SparTae7K. :wink:

I've noticed this trend that Sparty, Tae, and 7K can't EVER be discussed separately. Start a thread on Tae, and Sparty and 7K crash the party. Start a thread on 7K, and Tae and Sparty break down the door. It's kinda like those sourballs that predictably change flavors as the layers dissolve...

But I also love the fact that all 3 "arguably sucky" figures have their supporting fan base solidly behind them. A beautiful thing about heroscape is that no one figure is ever completely abandoned. Dund and Khosomet also come close in this "most worthless/overcosted figure" debate, but even they have their fans. (ie: I for one feel Khosomet justifies his cost when using 3+ squads of wolves...)

As for getting back to the starting point of this thread, I feel the overall debate on Sparty is rather moot until we see what future plans Craig & Co. have in mind for his 200pt cost justification. OBVIOUSLY they have future gladiators in mind that they believe will account for the 200pts. I don't believe this fact can be debated. So until we see what they do, we just have to "take it on faith" that someday we'll happily throw down 200 points on Sparty... until then, dream of gladiator squads with bonding and ranged abilities.... :D

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, Footlad79!

On behalf of our Spartacus dismissing and unlocatable community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

As a new member, you can begin your journey on the path to the fellowship, praise and respect of your Heroscapers peers by checking out this announcement: http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

~Aldin, who thinks the gladiators are pretty good anti-melee hero units it's just that there aren't that many melee heroes to go kill

[GIR]

Here you are again!

Spartacus really is bad in my point of view.

[nerdyninja]

Never played him but I guess if you have a group of Gladiators it would be awesome

[theodorelogan]

I voted value not based on a possible future glad squad. In fact, I think having a glad squad would make him TOO powerful personally. One extra attack dice for each of three or four units when you don't have to be anywhere near them? That sounds way too powerful to me personally. Then again, it's a lot of melee so it might not be so bad.

These guys rock in large point games (700ish). They really tear up the opposing heroes. Throw in a few ranged squads and maybe saylind to transport these guys around and you're in good shape.

[STAROCEAN980]

I voted value because the one time I drafted him he took out Q9 in one attack! Man, my friend was sooooo pissed.

[gelcom5]

Well, 200 points is quite a bit. I haven't personally played with him, and I'll most likely rather just go with either Jotun or even Braxas, but I just ordered him from Housemouse so I'll be sure to test him out and put in my two sence.

[Retlaw]

gelcom5 -- you do realize the last post in this thread was August 2007 (almost 2 years ago).

It may be worth resurecting an old thread is you are adding new information, etc., but your post doesn't really add too much.

Of course, my response doesn't add anything either -- so I guess I'm not doing any better. ;)

[Elginb]

Here's something that shocked me-- this thread was started a little less than 3 years ago. 3 YEARS!!! We've been waiting 3 YEARS for Spartacus to get support units that make him useful. I really wish there was a quicker turn-around on these things.

We've seen similar patterns with other units (like Gladiatrons and Gorillinators), though with shorter turn-around. Do you guys think this kind of delay-of-usefulness is a good marketing tool? Why not just release the synergistic units in the same wave? Or, why not release the more useful units first (like the Capuan Gladiators before Spartacus, or Nakita Agents before Gorillinators, and not the other way around)? We're still waiting for Taelord's booster...

For me, it creates more head-scratching than anticipation...

[Retlaw]

Originally posted September 2006:
...
I believe Spartacus' value will be realized at some point

So now we know that "some point" = 2 yrs and 10 months (assuming Jun 30 release for wave 9).

[clancampbell]

Here's something that shocked me-- this thread was started a little less than 3 years ago. 3 YEARS!!! We've been waiting 3 YEARS for Spartacus to get support units that make him useful. I really wish there was a quicker turn-around on these things.

We've seen similar patterns with other units (like Gladiatrons and Gorillinators), though with shorter turn-around. Do you guys think this kind of delay-of-usefulness is a good marketing tool? Why not just release the synergistic units in the same wave? Or, why not release the more useful units first (like the Capuan Gladiators before Spartacus, or Nakita Agents before Gorillinators, and not the other way around)? We're still waiting for Taelord's booster...

For me, it creates more head-scratching than anticipation...

Well the waves used to be released quicker, so there wasn't alot of waiting for the units to get their companion units.
As for the gladiators, the thing is, they were created 3 years ago according to GB. So why they couldn't have been put in waves 6,7 or 8 is a mystery. I wonder if they were slated to go in wave 9, and the slow down of releases produced the long wait. That would still seem illogical to me, as it seems Spartys point cost was based on working with the Gladiator squads. Even if the release schedule were what it used to be, the difference between waves 5 and 9 would still have been really long.

[PeasantDave]

Fortunately is looks like the designers didn't put any major loose ends in Wave 9. Almost every unit stands alone, adds synergy to a past unit, or has synergy within wave 9 itself.

[Eclipse]

So why they couldn't have been put in waves 6,7 or 8 is a mystery.

I'm sure there's a few thousand answers to that question. I can think of a dozen, but the one that jumps to the top of my head is that someone in marketing saw the sales of the LAST gladiators and was just in no rush to release more.

[GreenLanturn]

Fortunately is looks like the designers didn't put any major loose ends in Wave 9. Almost every unit stands alone, adds synergy to a past unit, or has synergy within wave 9 itself.
I'm kind of hoping that this isn't a trend. Sure, seeing those unfinished figures (like Spartacus was) sit on your shelf is a sad thing, but it just means more is coming, and of that theme!

[Toad Rocket]

cant resist.....must use resurrection....:zombiewalk:

IT LIVES!! IT LIVES!!!

Seriously though, I would like it if the next wave ties up even more loose ends that are out there. Dreadgulls anyone? Or even Valguards farger?

"Whats a farger?"
"You know, a Farger, like muthger and a farger...."

"OHHH, you mean FATHER."

Ok, serious again, IF there is a 3rd master set like so many speculate I would like wave 10 to help tie more loose ends in the previous assuming that the speculated 3rd master set will create more loose ends.

[Elginb]

Fortunately is looks like the designers didn't put any major loose ends in Wave 9. Almost every unit stands alone, adds synergy to a past unit, or has synergy within wave 9 itself.
I'm kind of hoping that this isn't a trend. Sure, seeing those unfinished figures (like Spartacus was) sit on your shelf is a sad thing, but it just means more is coming, and of that theme!

The problem is that you don't know more is coming. It could've been that the designers thought Crixus and Retiarius were enough to justify Spartacus cost, just like the Minions' "Utgar Orders" are supposed to somehow justify Taelord's cost.

I think it's important to boost anticipation, but it seems like they could do it in a way that encourages you to play with the unit more. Grimnak, I think, is a great example. In the original master set, Grimnak was a fun and useful figure on his own, but his Orc Warrior Enhancement clearly implied that more Orcs were on their way. Counterstrike said that it didn't work on other Samurai, which possibly meant that other Samurai were on the way-- but that didn't mean that the Izumi Samurai were useless or overpriced.

So, anyway, if they had released the Nakita Agents first, we all would've spent a lot of time speculating on what the Gorillinators are going to be. If we had been given the Blastatrons before the Gladiatrons, we would've spent a lot of time speculating what Gladiatrons were. And if we had been given the Capuan Gladiators, we would've been giddy with anticipation over what Gladiator Heroes might be coming out. Personally, I find the Nakitas and Blastatrons more useful on their own than the Gorillinators or the Gladiatrons, and I imagine the same will prove to be true of the Capuan Gladiators.

So why not build anticipation, but give us the more useful figures in the combos?

[stareknight]

yeah dragonfire is a pretty unique name :shock: what are the odds of two people making it thier nick :roll:

I believe Spartacus' value will be realized at some point

I could not agree more with the dragonfire name.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Spartacus is my favorite unit. Hence my name

[DrRansom]

Actually, I am Spartacus. And lately, I really like him too.

Nice thread necromancy btw.

[Nano*22]

Spartacus has value now. You just have to play him right with the gladiators...and maybe a few Raelins and Taelords to back him up haha

[sonlen-a-hand]

i think sparicuss is valueable if u need someone to take a beating while the rest of ure units escape

[Simpsons Scaper]

Ummm..... For 200 points? A unit to take a beating?

He can be worth his points in an all gladiator army with multiple Caupan Gladiators.

[Astronaut Jones]

Spartacus feels similar to Kato Katsuro for me; his value can rise exponentially in games with higher point totals. He's certainly not trash if used in conjunction Crixus, some Caupaun's and maybe Retiarius and he can become a true force in any game above 520 pts.

[GromBloodboy]

I like him. I watched him rampage yesterday and kill 5 Omnicron Snipers. He is good as a clean up unit, you just have to make sure the Caupan do the majority of damage.

[Nano*22]

Spartacus feels similar to Kato Katsuro for me; his value can rise exponentially in games with higher point totals. He's certainly not trash if used in conjunction Crixus, some Caupaun's and maybe Retiarius and he can become a true force in any game above 520 pts.

We play 500 points and
x3 Caupans
x1 Crixus
x1 Spartacus
have become a very powerful force, even with no range.

[GromBloodboy]

That is whay I did in the above game. That army is fast, even more so on a road map. They cover ground so fast. I have found that the slow roller with them generally isn't the best. Just run Crixus in, and when one of his fellows die, bring one up from the starting zone.

[tcglkn]

Spartacus feels similar to Kato Katsuro for me; his value can rise exponentially in games with higher point totals. He's certainly not trash if used in conjunction Crixus, some Caupaun's and maybe Retiarius and he can become a true force in any game above 520 pts.

We play 500 points and
x3 Caupans
x1 Crixus
x1 Spartacus
have become a very powerful force, even with no range.

I agree that is an amazing force. I often play 700 points and am able to add Retiarius.

[Frylock]

This poll needs two more options:

1. Who the heck is Spatacus?

2. I don't vote for poll options ending with a question mark.:roll:

Anyways,

I like Spartacus well enough. Steamroller is pretty fun, but not so competitive. I think I've only seen it win once (can't remember what they were versing.) The temptation is to rush out with the fast Capuans/Crixus, but usually they are mowed down by range/squads. I think slow-rolling might help them survive longer.