Barracks Voting: Walking Dead. Poll Started 09/14.

[justjohn]

Annerios' Zombie Creation:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/Walking_Dead_rev4.JPG

Voting opened!

[Euryon]

A good card, but if this is meant to be "Cheap and easy" cards to use.... How many zombies I gotta buy to make Infection a functional power?

Also, "Warriors" doesnt fit for their class IMO.

That being said I do REALLY like this zombie card - maybe the official zombies coming out will be better, but these guys have some nice flavour. Truly relentless, cumbersome and cheap.
I really like the head-shots only targetability.... A real nice touch.

All in all, this is borderline "yes" for me. I think Infection might need some work... It just lacks that officialness. And Warriors... Come on!

Edit: Also... I know theyre very cheap (10points a fig) with a nice regeneration type ability, but 1 range, 4 move, 2 attack.... Hmmm. Sounding like a novelty draft. In a decent sized battle, where they would be most useful (Infection is as useful as the amount of opposing humans), youre likely to have alarge map. A large map aint gonna want you trundling slow, defenseless squaddies into enemy fire.

I think they need some stat reworking... But how? Maybe some sort of "Lumbering stride" where if they dont attack, they can add 2 or 3 to their move?

Dunno. I think they need work though.. But I think they need the work because I *want* them to work. Theyre damn fine.

And is the swarm attack wording lifted straight out of hive swarm from the drones? (Not sure either way, but I think it should be if it aint, give or take a sentence)

[Rhydderch]

Offhand I think the Walking Dead need a small power boost. If you compare them to the Marro Drones they have 2 less move and a lower attack and defense though their limited hit zone does help. Zombie Swarm and Hive Swarm are a little different but they pretty much balance out. Infection is only useful against humans and only if the Zombies can inflict a wound with their low attack.

I think a movement bonus for Zombie Swarm could give the Walking Dead that small boost. Maybe something like:

Before moving the Walking Dead, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-14, you may move and attack with up to 4 Walking Dead you control. If you roll 15-17, you may move and attack with up to 8 Walking Dead you control. If you roll 18-20, add 2 to the move value of this card and you may move and attack with up to 8 Walking Dead you control.

Also is it just me or do the hit zone pictures not match the pictured figures?

[toddrew]

I would need to play them to be sure, but I like them as is (except maybe the "warrior" designation, as Euryon pointed out.) They should be slow, and the rest of one's army should account for that - cannon fodder squad for sure. They are 10 points less than the drones, but one gets an extra figure each squad. Maybe knock their move up to 5, but I would leave it as is.

[mrbistro]

'Zombie' would be a fine class since their name is Walking Dead. Perhaps Infection should allow you to bring a previously destroyed Walking Dead figure onto the board? Or is that too limiting?

[thehandofzarquon]

'Zombie' would be a fine class since their name is Walking Dead. Perhaps Infection should allow you to bring a previously destroyed Walking Dead figure onto the board? Or is that too limiting?You could call them Devourers too, to give them a little synergy :P

[Rhydderch]

They are 10 points less than the drones, but one gets an extra figure each squad. Maybe knock their move up to 5, but I would leave it as is.

OOPS. Forgot about the extra zombie in my analysis :oops: Thats what I get for trying to post a response while studying mediators of autoimmunity :( Anyway the change I suggested was pretty small. I like the idea of a slow base move with a possible bonus from Zombie Swarm, though bumping their move up to 5 would work too :D

'Zombie' would be a fine class since their name is Walking Dead. Perhaps Infection should allow you to bring a previously destroyed Walking Dead figure onto the board? Or is that too limiting?

I have considered that Hasbro might use this route. Use Undead for the "race" designation and the specific type of undead for the "class" with Sudema as a queen since she's a special character. Not sure if they will actually go that route though I personally think it would be cool since it allows you to have a general Undead designation without getting rid of the classic vampires, zombies and skeletons.

[Annerios]

Hey guys, I missed the last barrack's nominations for my cards and did not get to chime in with things that may have helped the discussion.

I like this card. Grungebob, Reaper, Truth and others all gave me good points to work on as it evolved to improve it. This is revision 4. I don't take offense to suggestions and I often rework cards based on new input from playtesters and people on this site.

The zombie images don't match the current Horrorclix figures, but that really does not matter, since the point is to use any zombie figures you own with the card. The targeting image on there is from the old Mage Knight zombies which many people used back when HS first started out. I may change that to make it consistent; I just have not gotten around to it.

There is a specific (albeit selfish) reason why they are "undead warriors", although "zombies" fits the class better. The reason is this card:

http://www.screamingtruth.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/rastghoul_the_abomination.jpg

I use other people's customs along with my own and this one works nicely with the Walking Dead.

These Walking Dead are useful in small maps and perferrably if they have roads to help their slow movement. If your enemies are not primarily human, I would not draft them, but against the popular romans, minutemen, etc these guys can wreak havok if they can get close. The fact that you can only target the head for attacks makes it so you can sometimes position the figures in ways to hide the heads from targeting by ranged units.

The main thing with this design is that they are supposed to be slow, Romero inspired cannon fodder. They need to stay at a low point cost, so you can draft a large group of them to overwhelm the enemy. The Marro drones are only 3 figures; the Walking Dead give you 4.

A bit of a movement burst does fit in with the Romero zombies (check out the cementary zombie in Night of the Living Dead; that sucker moves fast) so that is an interesting idea. I look forward to seeing what Hasbro does with their zombies.

[Rhydderch]

Rhastgoul explains the class and also helps give them a decent boost. I was thinking it would be very hard for them to kill most of the humans in the game with only 2 attack but that 2 attack bonus would definitely help. Thanks for the heads-up on their inspiration and how they were meant to be played.

I think the Barracks is almost caught up with its nominations so Rhastgoul would probably be a good one to throw in there to go with any other Undead customs. I may nominate it later. Need to get back to work for now though.

Thanks again Annerios. I'm really glad to see you in the Barracks discussion this time since it clearly helps the rest of us understand the decisions you made. Plus there is the potential for changes now. The last two times were just unfortunate since one was right before your move and the other was during =(

[allskulls]

I like the Zombies a lot, but agree with others here about the move value needing some help. Maybe something like Charging Assault but call it Smells Brains. Give +2 Move if they could reach a human.

One other concern I have is what changes will be made, if any, when the official zombies come out. Should Barracks entries be revisited when something like this occurs?

[CornPuff]

I share the same concern about official zombies taking this cards space on the battlefield.

I think this talk about movement is misguided. Instead of addressing movement of an individual figure, the same thing could be accomplised more thematically by changing Zombie Swarm. Increasing the amount of zombies you can move, or reducing the d20 roll would be more thematic IMHO.

If you want to give the zombies a stat boost, a quick +1 to defense would do the trick, and keep the theme IMHO.

I'm mopst uncomfortable about specifying 'human' on the card, as it is a Basic Game stat. I would feel more comforatble if it was a non-soulborg ability. For theme, you can picture that another zombie erupts from the carcass of the fallen, using the enemies biomass to create a new zombie.

I can understand why they are 'warriors', but I would much rather have them as 'devourers' or somthing. Also, the card really should have matching hit zones to the figure.

As of now, I'm undecided but would probably vote no. With a couple changes, my vote would likely be swayed.

[robaula]

I like them - they seem like they would be fun to play with, which is quite high on my Importance List. May I ask where the figures are from? I am presuming that they are Horrorclix

[mrbistro]

I think leaving the class as Warriors just so they work with the other custom isn't the best idea. Warrior is such a common class it could lead to the dead having synergy with others they really have no business having. Perhaps a class like walking dead would work, and perhaps the other custom could be tweaked to represent the change.

[justjohn]

I think this card is fine as is, with the exception of the class, which is a bit nitpicky. Anerios explained his reasoning for this, and it makes sense.

I think the abilities, as is, are fine for a 40 point squad. Yes, their attack or defense could be higher, but I think with their swarm ability, coupled with a somewhat limited, yet somewhat powerful special, would merrit their price being higher. With that being said, mayhap you could tweak the swarm ability to allow up to 12 of them to go per turn, but also a down side of on a roll of 1, not allowing any to move. Annerios is a talented custom maker, and I'm sure that idea crossed his mind during creating this custom, and for whatever reason, opted not to include it. Either way, I like this custom, and think it is quite balanced.

If you really want to get technical, their targeting zones makes them alot more difficult to hit at range, and aside from oozing with them, adds a little more strategy to them.

I'm not a big fan of Zombies in general, but I think this custom nails the idea of the Walking Dead. And who cares if their are official zombies that come out? For starters, who knows when they will be actually out, and when they do, they may be terrible. I think this custom sates everyone's appetite for Zombies (if you do indeed hunger for zombie units, I myself could care less) until official ones come out.

[LilNewbie]

...

I'm not a big fan of Zombies in general, but I think this custom nails the idea of the Walking Dead. And who cares if their are official zombies that come out? For starters, who knows when they will be actually out, and when they do, they may be terrible. I think this custom sates everyone's appetite for Zombies (if you do indeed hunger for zombie units, I myself could care less) until official ones come out.

Bite your tongue! ;)

I agree about being a good unit even with official zombies. And the explanation of using them with Rastghoul is a great concept and does answer why they are considered warriors. :thumbsup:

Newb.

[allskulls]

I'm not a big fan of Zombies in general, but I think this custom nails the idea of the Walking Dead. And who cares if their are official zombies that come out? For starters, who knows when they will be actually out, and when they do, they may be terrible. I think this custom sates everyone's appetite for Zombies (if you do indeed hunger for zombie units, I myself could care less) until official ones come out.
What made you nominate the Zombies? I like them and see the fun in their mechanics, but those comments made me curious.

I mentioned the official ones coming out because most of the custom makers here hinge their creations on official wording and compatability. I have some ninjas that I modded but chose to wait for the official ones before creating abilites. The Marvel custom section is barren because most of us are waiting for Legends rules before creating (besides the one I did for Gambit).

I just think a wait on these won't hurt. If someone wants to use any custom before official versions come out, their not being in the barracks won't stop them.

If it is just a matter of playability of the custom, then the Zombies will get my yes.

[justjohn]

I didn't nominate these, Fallen_Templar did. I came up with the idea for the barracks, the nominations come from everyone else, I just post the threads. I think these Zombies are great, and they predate the "official" zombies by about 4 months (and counting), and are more than worthy of being nominated.

Poll will be added later today.

[allskulls]

I didn't nominate these, Fallen_Templar did. I came up with the idea for the barracks, the nominations come from everyone else, I just post the threads. I think these Zombies are great, and they predate the "official" zombies by about 4 months (and counting), and are more than worthy of being nominated.

Poll will be added later today.
My bad :oops: Wasn't aware of the nomination process. So nominations are pm'd to you then?

I agree, there are worthy of nomination and I will vote yes. But I believe my points to still be valid, especially with the many other possible nominations out there.

[LilNewbie]

Barracks nominations are posted in the following thread and JJ handles the individual voting/discussion threads:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1012&start=10

Newb.

[allskulls]

:duh: Thank, Newb.

I remember seeing that, but just recently started to get involved.

[Annerios]

I didn't nominate these, Fallen_Templar did. I came up with the idea for the barracks, the nominations come from everyone else, I just post the threads. I think these Zombies are great, and they predate the "official" zombies by about 4 months (and counting), and are more than worthy of being nominated.

Poll will be added later today.

These guys have actually been around since the Heroscape.net days. They are old rotting corpses. :twisted:

The specials have not really changed, but the movement, attack and defense have changed in various incarnations. They used to have a move of 2, which is more accurate for zombies, but just does not work at all for HS. The points and attack values have changed between versions as have the images used for the zombies on the card, etc. This is just the latest revamp to use the excellent Horrorclix zombies that many people can now get their hands on.

I will try to fix the targeting images today. As for the official zombies, unless they are similar to these (which are more of an urban, modern style of zombies than the Warhammer fantasy style those seem to be) I don't see why they can't co-exist. Of course, once they come out I may need to edit the card again to make sure they do work. Truth may have to do the same for Rhastghoul depending on how the unit is classified.

There are many different types of zombies just in the cinema depictions alone, for example. Fulci's zombies would need a move of 2 to be accurate. Return of the Living Dead featured talking and very fast moving zombies. The infected in 28 Days Later, although technically not zombies (yeah, right :wink: ) were very fast, but still have the infection power and it works much faster than with Romero's zombies.

I forgot to thank Hex_Enduction_Hour for his input on these guys. Sorry. :duh:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/HS_Zombie_Horde.jpg

[toddrew]

Looking at that picture, what would be cool (but a lot of work) would be making a "zombie edition" of each human hs figure, to be used when the appropriate figure is infected :!:

[justjohn]

Sorry Annerios, I didn't realize those had been around that long. I remembered your zombie repaint/mods from HS, but the card I though was fairly new since it was done through HCC.

Cool custom nonetheless.

And AllSkulls, feel free to nominate in the nomination thread.

[Doc_Savage]

I like these guys. While they are weak, you can buy a whole mess of them. Because they are a common squad, I do think that Infection needs to indicate that "when an opponents figure is destroyed by your zombies that you replace that figure with a zombie figure that you control." or something similar.

[justjohn]

Voting Opened!

[toddrew]

voted yes.

[Annerios]

I like these guys. While they are weak, you can buy a whole mess of them. Because they are a common squad, I do think that Infection needs to indicate that "when an opponents figure is destroyed by your zombies that you replace that figure with a zombie figure that you control." or something similar.

Good point, Doc. I think that could use a little clarification regarding the part about "a zombie figure that you control." Although, since these guys are evil Utgar units, the attack was left unspecified so you could have the flexibility to attack your own units (for people that play that way) to create a zombie. If you have one Sacred Band figure left and it is not really worth wasting an order marker on him, why not try turning him into a zombie?

Quick note: Targeting area updated to reflect new figures on the card as requested. Hit F5 on your keyboard in the card image page to reload it.

[LilNewbie]

:thumbsup:

Newb.

[allskulls]

Yes.

[allskulls]

Double post.

[Point Blanks]

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Four dancing banana's out of five. Yes.

[mrbistro]

Yep.

[Doc_Savage]

Annerios' Zombie Creation:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/Walking_Dead_rev4.JPG



I voted yes but now notice that the Infection power has changed (I think).

As it is now the last sentence reads, "You now control that figure and its Army Card." That just seems odd to me. Isn't that Zombie now part of your Squad? It almost reads like you get the new Walking Dead figure and all the other figures on the former (now undead) opponents figures card.

If your Zombie attacks my 4th Mass and kills one, it turns into a Zombie and you now control all my 4th Mass? That's kinda how it reads...

Maybe the infection power should read:

INFECTION
When a human figure is destroyed by an attack from your Walking Dead, place an additional Walking Dead figure on the space where that figure was destroyed. You control the new Walking Dead figure.

I also had this idea....

INFECTION
In addition to placing 4 Walking Dead figures in your Starting Zone, at the start of the game you may place any number of additional Walking Dead figures on this card. All Walking Dead figures on this card are your Dead Pool. When a human figure is destroyed by an attack from your Walking Dead, place a Walking Dead figure from your Dead Pool on the space where that figure was destroyed. You control the new Walking Dead figure.

Just an idea...

[Annerios]

I voted yes but now notice that the Infection power has changed (I think).

As it is now the last sentence reads, "You now control that figure and its Army Card." That just seems odd to me. Isn't that Zombie now part of your Squad? It almost reads like you get the new Walking Dead figure and all the other figures on the former (now undead) opponents figures card.

If your Zombie attacks my 4th Mass and kills one, it turns into a Zombie and you now control all my 4th Mass? That's kinda how it reads...

Maybe the infection power should read:

INFECTION
When a human figure is destroyed by an attack from your Walking Dead, place an additional Walking Dead figure on the space where that figure was destroyed. You control the new Walking Dead figure.

I also had this idea....

INFECTION
In addition to placing 4 Walking Dead figures in your Starting Zone, at the start of the game you may place any number of additional Walking Dead figures on this card. All Walking Dead figures on this card are your Dead Pool. When a human figure is destroyed by an attack from your Walking Dead, place a Walking Dead figure from your Dead Pool on the space where that figure was destroyed. You control the new Walking Dead figure.

Just an idea...

I corrected the text. The first one you suggested with the inclusion of the words "additional" and "new", I think explains it well (and in the briefest text). The point is to get away from any confusion about these guys working like the Marro Warriors where you are stuck with that group of 4 figures. These guys spawn more figures. When we use them, we usually have an extra unit card at hand and give it to the player when the first extra zombie is created. If you were playing a game based on points, we would probably only give the player the point cost for the extra zombies created, not the full value of the card; although we hardly ever determine victory based on just the remaining points.

The second suggestion basically describes the way it sometimes works when there is no spare card. The player using the zombies keeps some extra figures close at hand, so if he creates one, he can pop it right on the battlefield. Then they just keep putting the slain ones on the same card.

Whatever works with the resources at hand. :wink:

[Doc_Savage]

Excellent.... I got 4 zombies in 6 Horrorclix packs. But no uniques to sell off..... That's what I get for buying 1/2 a brick.