Warhammer: Invasion LCG

[Wytefang]

Anyone pick this up at GenCon this year?? (From the FFG booth.)

A friendly Heroscaper very graciously acquired this for me and it's fantastic in every way. Just wondering if anyone else had nabbed it and if you're having fun with it, too. :)

We can also just use this thread to discuss the game in general.

[nyys]

After hearing a lot of good things about it, I now have my eye on this one.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Wytefang]

I'll post pictures in here and go over everything - just give me a bit of time to do so. For now, brief review/overview from me. One comment - this is NOT a Collectible Card game, where you do not know for certain which cards you may get in a Booster Pack, instead, this is a Living Card Game, which means that you will see every card you are buying, there is no randomness to your purchases. How FFG handles this is by releasing a Main or "Core" Set of cards and then expanding that with smaller packs that come out fairly regularly to add to the game.

PROs

- Beautiful artwork on cards - simply awesome
- Warhammer theme well-matched to gameplay
- Interesting tactical choices during the game
- Wide variety of card combos and strategies available per faction
- An inexpensive CCG-style game in the new FFG Living Card Game (LCG) format
- Easy-to-learn, challenging-to-master
- There hasn't been a ton of Rules issues - the game appears to be well thought out


CONs

- You may need 2-3 copies of the Core Set ($27 at Thoughthammer.com) to really get enough cards to make powerful decks
- Expansion packs, called "Battle Packs" only provide a small amount of new cards per Battle Pack but they are inexpensive ($7)
- The game components also include a Capital Card which is a larger (about the size of 4 normal cards in a square) cardboard illustration of your Capital. This makes the game a bit less portable, though players could do without it, in theory.
- No FAQ out yet for the few rules questions that have popped up
- Mainly a 2-player game though the cards have been written to include the eventual possibility of multi-player

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Card Types: Units, Support (usually buildings that enhance a zone), Tactics (think of Instants or Interrupts or Events), or Quest cards.

Turn Structure:

Kingdom Phase: Acquire Resources from cards that have been played to the Kingdom Zone

Quest Phase: Draw cards from cards that have been played to your Quest Area

Capital Phase: Put cards into play (Unit, Support, or Quest cards) in one of your 3 Zones: Kingdom, Battlefield, or Quest

Battlefield Phase: Attack enemy zones with the units in your Battlefield Zone (the only zone you can attack from). Combat involves adding up the power of all your units (represented by a symbol) and matching it up against your opponent's defending units first THEN putting the spillover onto the Zone you were attacking of their Capital.

First player to Burn 2 Capital Zones wins the game OR you can win if your opponent runs out of cards. You Burn a Zone by doing 8 hit points of damage to it.


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The Core set isn't actually due until October sometime (some are saying late October). :( Wish it was sooner but I have enough cards right now to play at least. :D

[gamjuven]

Dangnabbit you got me all interested in the game now. I didn't get the chance to demo it at Gencon but I love the Warhammer universe. Now I'm gonna have to go out and get this game and try it out. Curse you and your convincing words.

[Wytefang]

Just wait until I post my even more thorough with awesome pictures Review on BGG (which I will link to here, once it's up sometime later today). ;)

:P

[nyys]

- You may need 2-3 copies of the Core Set ($27 at Thoughthammer.com) to really get enough cards to make powerful decks

Will that give you a lot of dupes that you won't ever use, or is it mostly cards you could use more than one of?

FYI, I've never played a CCG (or LCG for that matter) before (Summoner Wars will be my first) so bare with me. :?



The Core set isn't actually due until October sometime (some are saying late October). :( Wish it was sooner but I have enough cards right now to play at least. :D

What is it that you were able to aquire now?

[Wytefang]

I would say that you may get some extra cards that you might not need or use but you are going to want at least 2-3 sets, imho.

What I was able to acquire via a kind soul here at HS.com, is the Core Set. :)

[nyys]

I keep going back and forth on weather I should just pre-order this now or hold out until the holidays.

Here's an easy way for me to decide. The pre-order price of $25-27 I'm seeing around the internet, will that most likely go away after the release and straight to MSRP?

[Wytefang]

Nope, not with Thoughthammer. Usually the price they list stays the same unless it's a special promotion or something.

[Jim]

FYI, I've never played a CCG (or LCG for that matter) before (Summoner Wars will be my first) so bare with me. :?
I don't think Summoner Wars qualifies as a CCG.

Jim

[nyys]

Nope, not with Thoughthammer. Usually the price they list stays the same unless it's a special promotion or something.

Perfect!

FYI, I've never played a CCG (or LCG for that matter) before (Summoner Wars will be my first) so bare with me. :?
I don't think Summoner Wars qualifies as a CCG.

Jim

OK, then just CG... happy? ;)

[Aldin]

OK, then just CG... happy? ;)

I believe TCG is correct.

~Aldin, switching tradeable for tactical ;)

[nyys]

OK, then just CG... happy? ;)

I believe TCG is correct.

~Aldin, switching tradeable for tactical ;)

...or maybe ECGTC. On the box art it says Expandable Card Game of Tactical Combat (http://www.summonerwars.com/playtest/DGCover.jpg). :shrug:

[Wytefang]

Warhammer: Invasion is labeled as a LCG and that's a term that I think best describes this type of game. :)

[LilNewbie]

What is an LCG:

A Living Card Game (LCG) is a game that breaks away from the traditional Collectible Card Game (CCG) model by offering a new fixed card distribution method that still offers the same dynamic customizable, expanding, and constantly evolving game play that makes CCG’s so much fun, but without the blind buy purchase model that has burned out so many players. The end result is an innovative mix that gives you the best of both worlds!


The booster packs are non-random so you know exactly what you are purchasing.

I'm not sure what Truth is going to call the Summoner War's model but I don't think it will be a CCG since blind purchase should not be a part of it (thankfully).

I'm looking forward to WH:I moreso than the other two FFG LCG games. I've heard about some balance issues with those games as they just moved some of the original CCG cards over to the LCG game without any regards to correcting balance issues. Hopefully, the WH:I cards and game will be designed better.
As of right now, I'm on a wait-and-see mode for this game.

Newb.

[Jormi_Boced]

I am enjoying my copy and am excited for the new pack!

[LilNewbie]

I am enjoying my copy and am excited for the new pack!

Translation: Nyah, nyah...I've got my copy!!

:lol:

Newb.

[Jormi_Boced]

I am enjoying my copy and am excited for the new pack!

Translation: Nyah, nyah...I've got my copy!!

:lol:

Newb.

Yeah, sorry. Did they not let you escape the Arcane Legions booth long enough to get one:)

[LilNewbie]

I am enjoying my copy and am excited for the new pack!

Translation: Nyah, nyah...I've got my copy!!

:lol:

Newb.

Yeah, sorry. Did they not let you escape the Arcane Legions booth long enough to get one:)

LOL! I spent most of the gaming budget on prepainted terrain.

Newb.

[Jormi_Boced]

I know, I thought about picking up the Arcane Legions started, but money and space in the vehicle kept me from picking up most things.

[Wytefang]

I've posted my extensive review with pictures at BGG.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3930892#3930892

[nyys]

Great review, I even finally registered at BBG so I could give it a :thumbsup:.

[Wytefang]

Yay!

[Wytefang]

Per FFG's website, the game is shipping out to distributors next week!!! Yay! Means we should be able to start buying it within 2 weeks at the latest. Here's the link:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=805 (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=805)

[Wytefang]

I've posted a new addendum to my intensive review of Warhammer: Invasion at BGG - this one focuses on Racial themes and key cards for the game (with copious pictures and one chart/graph!):

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/444982

Please check it out and let me know what you guys think! :)

[Wytefang]

The FFG Tutorial video has been posted AND they announced the 3rd Battlepack (expansion) for the game, "Tooth & Nail."

Check out the video here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=826

[gamjuven]

I now have two copies of this game. It is a lot of fun. A very quick playing game. I haven't played it too much but happyjosiah and I have loved the little we have played. Haven't done a draft yet but it looks like fun. I'm thinking a dwarf deck would be pretty ridiculous, but haven't playtested it yet. Not sure how many cards I should put in my deck. 50-100.

Great game though, can't wait to get the expansions!

[Wytefang]

Sweet! I love it a ton, too! I currently have two decks that I think are probably the main deck types (for now, without a whole lot of cards to add to the mix) - An Orc deck (alone, not mixed with anything else) and an Empire/Dwarf deck that seems pretty tough. So far in play-testing, both have won the same amount against each other THOUGH I'm playing against an opponent who doesn't always make the most correct decisions, so it's hard to say which really is the better deck.

The only bummer in the starter set, that I'm only just now starting to notice after a ton of games, is that Chaos doesn't really seem all that tough - despite having the single most insanely powerful brute in the game (the Bloodthirster). :( I hope they tweak and fix that.

[gamjuven]

I don't know, chaos has done pretty well with us. That beastmen card that gets +2 damage if you have 2 developments in the battlefield will win you the game very quickly if the opponent can't defend against it. Chaos won in like 3 turns because I had 2 of those cards out and I corrupted his units so they couldn't block. I have never got the bloodthirster out.

[Wytefang]

Weird how the game plays out differently for everyone - in my games the Corruption abilities of Chaos never work very well at all - I maybe get to corrupt like 1 or 2 units at the most. It just doesn't seem pervasive enough in my experience, to be terribly functional. BUT I'll admit not making a concerted effort to really get the Corruption working - perhaps that's the problem.

But the main issue is that while a Chaos player is slogging away trying to get benefits from Corrupting everyone, the Orcs are straight-up slamming them at a horrific pace. Perhaps Chaos matches up better against Empire/Dwarves?

[Jormi_Boced]

I think Orcs are the fastest, but Chaos is faster than Empire and Dwarves. I don't think the corruption abilities are really realized yet. The new packs will expand on them. When I play the chaos deck I try to zerg with them and use the corruption cards to know out key blockers at key moments or just develop them.

[Wytefang]

Sounds like a smart strategy to me, Jormi. Good advice, thanks!

[viperhoops10]

Does anyone know if this would be at a FLGS yet? I've been wanting to pick it up for a while but I don't want to have to make two trips.

[Jormi_Boced]

I know some stores are selling it. I can't guarantee yours is. You could maybe use a telephone instead of making a trip:)

[Wytefang]

Every FLGS around here has it now (Minnesota) and every online e-tailer I've seen has them, too. :)

[viperhoops10]

Yeah I checked the FLGS website which said that they were in, but I got there and they had sold out yesterday. I guess it was more popular than I expected, but there's always the internet.

[viperhoops10]

Sorry for the double post, but I got the game yesterday and had a question. Why is Chaos considered the weakest faction? At my house they're 4-0 right now, I'll admit that we don't know the intricacies of the game so maybe we develop other factions wrong. But the two factions that are considered the best (Dwarves and Orcs) have been getting stomped by the Chaos in our games.

[Jormi_Boced]

I think Chaos is good if you get it rolling quickly. Things like Savage Gors, can be brutal early.

[Wytefang]

I wouldn't say that Chaos can't win, necessarily, but when you sit down two players of equal understanding and skill - Chaos loses 75% of the time due to two key factors:

1. Chaos lacks basic Destruction-type cards - for Support, Developments, and mass destruction (like the Orc's Troll Vomit or Empire's Judgement of Verena). This puts it behind the curve against Orc or hybrid Empire/Dwarf decks (the toughest deck in the game, imho).

2. Chaos' main ability is Corruption - however there doesn't seem to be enough Corruption abilities to really make it potent, just yet OR whatever Corruption abilities there are just don't seem to work together as potently as they should.

I would tend to agree with Jormi about Chaos doing well if it gets rolling quickly but then again you can say that about any of the Races, except maybe Empire - who tends to do better the longer they can stay alive (and Dwarves fit that bill to some extent too).

I've read the comments about Savage Gors getting started early in the game on BGG threads but as people have proved in those threads, they're really no tougher than any other Unit.

I can't wait for the expansions to hit, though!

[gamjuven]

I have playtesting and played this game a lot by now. Very fun game still, love it. But I am starting to find that orcs are absolutely crushing everything by a vast margin. Before it was having some issues with dwarves and a lucky draw would decide a winner but now the games aren't even close. With cards like the choppa and hte support card that adds 1 power to every attacking and defending unit the games aren't even close.

It no longer seems to be a luck thing and is now starting to turn into a balance issue. Anyone else notice this? The orc faction is very much overpowered. They can do everything and can do it cheaply as well.

[Jormi_Boced]

So far it seems to me that the Orcs and Dwarfs are both more powerful with the Empire slightly behind and Chaos trailing them, but I think any deck is capable of beating any other. I have also tried to balance my decks with the neutral cards. We will have the first battle pack soon though and I am sure it will change the balance of the game a bunch. Also, if you think the orcs are that much better you may be able to mix some Empire, HE and or neutral stuff in with the Dwarfs or remove a couple of the more powerful cards from the orcs.

[Wytefang]

Yeah, the Orcs are pretty tough and I totally agree with your order here, particularly if you're going with solo race decks. However, I feel like the Dwarf/Empire hybrid deck is just a wee bit tougher than the Orc's best deck all things considered.

I'm totally stoked for the first expansion!!!

[Wytefang]

Sweet! Skavenblight shipping this week!! YEAH BABY!!! :D :D

[Jormi_Boced]

I am excited for this as well.

[gamjuven]

I still love this game. I finally just got my third master set in the mail and are able to create any deck I want. I can't wait until the next set next week. Such a fun game. I just wish there were other people around me that also played the game.

[Jormi_Boced]

I am disappointed with the way they handled Skaven, so I haven't bought anything past one of the main sets.

[Wytefang]

Your loss, I suppose (from my perspective, of course). ::: shrug ::: Seems to be a petty reason to dislike a game. Last I checked, it's the actual gameplay that should matter, I think.

It's been a blast, the new Skaven cards are super tough..I like their power and how they build upon each other. Really cool, imho.

The 3rd BP comes out this week, can't wait!!!

[Jormi_Boced]

I believe that never seeing a Skavenblight capital card or having horned rat faction symbols to cost the Skaven cards appropriately when mixing them with other factions is directly related to gameplay and is also a major turn off to fans of the Warhammer universe. The Skaven are a great race in the Warhammer world and just got a new army book. FFG could have really hit the ball out of the park by releasing a Skaven pack in conjunction with the new Skaven book and model releases.

[Wytefang]

But the thing is that's not the financial model they're going for here, at all. This isn't supposed to be a real-time link between the companies - FFG has simply acquired the rights to some GW properties and that's that. It's nothing more than that. Sure they could do some cool cross-company stuff but that's not at all what FFG is doing, and that's okay.

I agree that it could be neat if each and every possible faction in the world of Fantasy Warhammer was represented. But it would be a logistical nightmare from a game design standpoint, in all honesty. It's hard enough balancing 4-6 factions, let alone a bunch more than that, all the while giving them all their own unique focus. It's just not a realistic idea, I don't think.

I've heard some things that lead me to believe that they may add (or could) add separate races down the road but I'm not at all worried about it.

I guess I just don't see the point in grousing about marketing decisions when the game itself is such a blast. Just enjoy the game for what it is, not what it is not, I'd say.

I don't mean that snarkily, I too, wouldn't mind it if the Skaven were their own race with their own capital card but such is not the case.

[gamjuven]

Yeah I wish that Skaven got their own race card as well but o well. They better not do it now because they would become way too overpowered. As it is they are shaping up to be a pretty sweet army by themselves, especially with the new set coming out. I can't wait to try them out.

When I first started playing I loved the game, but was very angry at the lop-sided-ness of the orc faction. I still think it is overpowered (despite people claiming that it is not overpowered, to which I say "B.S."). But with the new releases and the hopes of some of the other factions I am starting to get hope.

The game looks like it's getting more and more rounded which is awesome. I can't wait for each set to be released. Every release I have to make room in every deck which is awesome.

I'm glad they are fixing (eventually) the distribution of the cards so that you don't have 3 billion extras of some cards and less of others (although I think that is still fairly far away. I hope the elf/dark elf master set is fixed - don't really want to buy 3 of those like the first master set)

So far I still am just using decks that are mono-faction. Haven't really seen the usefulness of mixing factions, the game is too quick for that slow build up, especially against orcs. I am intrigued by the sniping decks people talk about and the empire/dwarf decks people rave about, but since there is only 1 other person I know of that plays the game, my meta game is pretty limited.

I wish there were other PA players around. This is such a great game I would so play in lots of tournaments if they existed. Maybe they will make an online version (crosses fingers)

[Wytefang]

I used to determinedly agree with you about Orc decks but not anymore - especially not after experimenting with Hybrid decks and playing a lot more with different people. Orc Rush decks are still potent but also beatable. :)

I agree with you on most of your points, Gamjuven. :)

[gamjuven]

I used to determinedly agree with you about Orc decks but not anymore - especially not after experimenting with Hybrid decks and playing a lot more with different people. Orc Rush decks are still potent but also beatable. :)

I agree with you on most of your points, Gamjuven. :)

You will have to enlighten me on what decks you think can beat an orc deck on a ratio better than 50/50. Cause I can't find it. I mean it is definitely beatable, but the ration is definitely not 50/50 as far as I can tell. It is very much sided with orcs at the moment in my opinion and as far as my games have gone.

[gamjuven]

Sorry for double posting but I was confused at the main site and wondered what the sages here though.

I printed out the official faq from the website, and then I see this thing. And some of the rulings aren't official? Why the heck are they posted like faq if it isn't official?

My main issue right now is figuring out this toughness thing, cause that's an obvious change to the original rules in the original rulebook. So when assigning damage, do we have to account for toughness now? Before all you had to do is assign damage equal to the life (not counting toughness, although you could assign more to destroy the figure by accounting for toughness). Now there is a "faq" that is saying that you now have to assign while taking into consideration for toughness? This is very annoying. I don't know who to trust. People are claiming: "This is true! I am right! This is the actual ruling", but it doesn't look like they are actual employees of the company at all.

So what is it? If there is a unit in front of me with 2 hitpoints and toughness 1, do I have to assign 2 or 3 damage before assigning to the capital? Is accounting for toughness mandatory or a choice? That is a major difference that is not addressed in the official downloadable faq, but is claimed to be different. What's going on?

[Drumline3469]

Just picked up this game to try it out. And by picked it up to try it out I mean bought 3 of everything (thank you Tax Return). So far it's really awesome. Digging my Skaven/Chaos rush deck, but with the Felblade for the Skaven, I could see a really awesome almost pure Skaven deck possibility.