Gladiators or Pirates?

[JANDAR88]

There has been a lot of discussion in the Blackmoon's Seige thread about pirates and gladiators. So I wanted to know what everyone thought.

Do you want more gladiators?

Do you want pirates?

Do you want both?

Do you want neither?

[Toad Rocket]

Gladiatiors for me.

Pirates arent really all that cool to me. To me they are cowardly thieves. They prey on unarmed targets to steal, kill and rape them. There is nothing cool about historical pirates to me. They have about the same appeal to me as a squad of petty thieves who mug little old ladies.

I know there has been a series of movies that has made pirates look way cooler sezzy, but in reality that is far from the truth.

Granted gladiators are no angels either. I would imagine that the gladiator uprisings in Rome left a trail of death and destructin also. But here is the critical difference to me. Gladiators are actually TRAINED fighters. They had extensive and intense trainers to make them strong warriors. Which they needed if they had any hope to survive. Pirates on the otherhand...not so much.

I dont mean to offend with my opinions, but thats just my take on it.

[Jexik]

I picked Gladiators because we already have some in the game. Spartacus has been asking for this for the last couple years.

"Come on guys. I'm totally worth it. Just wait until..."

[Uprising]

I picked Gladiators because we already have some in the game. Spartacus has been asking for this for the last couple years.

"Come on guys. I'm totally worth it. Just wait until..."

Yea, what he said.

[marro_shaman]

Both!

Pirates are sweet as VILLAINS(Need to be Utgar or Einar). You could have a Jandar navy fleet counter them. You need villains in Heroscape as well as good guys.

Gladiators - Just watch Gladiator and you'll understand

[killercactus]

I voted both, but I hope Wave 9 gives us Gladiators. I can wait for Pirates, and I'm not sure they'll be a good fit into Heroscape, but I'm such a huge fan of the PotC movies that I hope they bring them in.

[Primus Magicus]

Gladiators for sure. No pirates please.

[Follower of Vydar]

I'd like to see both in the game. In the upcoming wave I think it will be pirates for the very reason that Toad Rocket mentioned. Gladiators were trained fighters while the title "brawlers" suggests undisciplined fighting.

[Chardris]

You know, both do have pretty bad backgrounds. Most pirates were beggars and theieves who usually got hanged. Gladiators were slaves that had to kill enough people to win the crowd and get their freedom granted. But I still prefer gladiators. Spartacus does need them, as everyone else will agree.

[Bill Newby]

Hmmm ... nobody's mentioned the possibility of captured pirates forced to fight as gladiators ...

[nyys]

Both. More figures (of any kind) = more fun.

[Kobu]

A gladiator squad first for the obvious reasons. I do want pirates though. If you can't see how'd they fit, I think you need to expand your imagination.

[clancampbell]

While I wouldn't mind pirates, I'd like to have some Gladiators first. As has been stated, Spartacus needs a squad to make him usefull.


So, lets get Spartacus off the dust collecting shelf, and hope for Gladiators.

I'm of a mind however, that Brawlers will bw neither.

[JANDAR88]

Pirates were definatly evil and vile, but doesn't that make them great canidates for Utgar? And if you don't like the idea of evil pirates, how about privateers?

[Land-based AE]

But Pirates are water dependent and Heroscape is not. Water in Heroscape is more an obstacle than anything else.

More gladiators please.

[Agent Minivann]

I picked Gladiators because we already have some in the game. Spartacus has been asking for this for the last couple years.

"Come on guys. I'm totally worth it. Just wait until..."

But Pirates are water dependent and Heroscape is not. Water in Heroscape is more an obstacle than anything else.

More gladiators please.
I think that those two posts sum up most of why I say gladiators. For the rest of the reason, throw in a healthy dose of "Pirates are a passing fad" and "gladiators are just more interesting to me in this kind of setting".

[jbbnbsmith]

Gladiators, hands down. We already have Vikings, that's sort of like pirates to me. I never think of pirates as true warriors, more creatures of opportunity who can fight when they have to. But heck, put 'em in a blister pack and I'll buy 'em.

[1Mmirg]

I am intrigued by the fact that there are currently more people who want gladiators than all of the other responses combined together.

Space pirates of some kind, I might find interesting, but in general I agree with what has been said above about not really needing or wanting pirates--or even feeling like pirates fit into the HS world. I trust that if the design team created some pirates, that I would like them and buy them, but in general my response is "move along, nothing to see here."

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Found this with StumbleUpon (a really cool resource, by the way) and thought it was rather applicable to the current debate. Both sides of the debate might find this interesting.
http://isiria.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/pirates-might-not-be-what-they-seem-to-be/

Basically the author debunks the myths that pirates were all bloodthirsty evildoers, both historical pirates and the modern ones in Somalia.

[SymphonyScaper]

I think both would fit in Heroscape. Pirates are more interesting to me than gladiators, so I'd like to see them first.:)

[Grungebob]

Looks like Gladiators are winning this poll just like a steamroller baby!

[Rich10]

Found this with StumbleUpon (a really cool resource, by the way) and thought it was rather applicable to the current debate. Both sides of the debate might find this interesting.
http://isiria.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/pirates-might-not-be-what-they-seem-to-be/

Basically the author debunks the myths that pirates were all bloodthirsty evildoers, both historical pirates and the modern ones in Somalia.
This is a very good article. After reading this, I still choose gladiators.

I liked the Disney movies, the Disney ride, like the tales of famous pirates, love their flags, etc. Still, pirates typically fight at sea on pirate ships. I don't see them in Heroscape.

[1moreheroscaper]

As stated already, I think gladiators would help increase the value of some already established units--so give use either a common or unique squad of gladiators. I'm not against having pirates, after all I made my own custom squad about 2 years ago. I do agree that piracy is nothing we should promote, but in a miniatures game with demon looking kyries and backstabbing knights, I think pirates might have a place in the faction of a shifty Archkyrie--whicher ever that may be.

[Killometer]

Pirates for sure!!

I picked Gladiators because we already have some in the game.

Hmm, that's the reason that I picked pirates. :p

But Pirates are water dependent and Heroscape is not.

But you have to come ashore SOMEWHERE to bury your treasure. ;)

[ABOMINATION]

Gladiators - Just watch Gladiator and you'll understand
Death smiles at man; all man can do is smile back.

Great scene...

But yeah, gladiators would be much better, as they already have a couple of heroes, and Spartacus could really use the boost if they had some sort of gladiator bonding. In return, just think what a full extra move, attack, and defense could do.

[1moreheroscaper]

Gladiators - Just watch Gladiator and you'll understand
Death smiles at man; all man can do is smile back.

Great scene...

But yeah, gladiators would be much better, as they already have a couple of heroes, and Spartacus could really use the boost if they had some sort of gladiator bonding. In return, just think what a full extra move, attack, and defense could do.

Also, we could finally have official figures for a Gladiator Revolt-Army Scenario, led by Spartacus against the Romans.

[Griffin]

Pirates are out numbered here, but that does not surprise me. I am aware that when it comes to Heroscape, Gladiators fit the bill much better than pirates do. Then again, pirates fit the bill better than Dund.... so... :p

I can get behind the idea of pirate heroes and squad(s), but gladiators are really more like heroes than squads. I voted for pirates because I have been intrigued by them for as long as I can remember and they absolutely should have a place here in Valhalla. But I have to admit, after hearing the argument about Spartacus, I agree, we really do need those gladiators first.


Griffin took one look at the layer of dust on Spartacus, then with his head hung down in grief, solemnly put away his cutlass and eye patch, then placed that little murdering, violent, cross dressing slave miniature in his hand. "I didn't forget about you little buddy"

[SuperflyTNT]

Neither. If I HAD to choose, it'd be Gladiators, but only in the hopes that they could become their own decent faction at some point.

I'd really rather see giant Soulborg Vipers with laser beam eyes, razor sharp tails and a fuzzy teddy bear impaled on their teeth. That would be so cool.

[Snotwalker 8000]

For the simple yet very compelling reason that we need to further flesh out existing themes before venturing into yet new and incomplete ones, we need a GLADIATOR SQUAD.

Pirates to me are rather ho-hum. (not yo-ho rum, just to clarify). The only types of pirates that could be cool, would be a mixed squad of undead skeleton warriors from a variety of battlefields, including a skeletal pirate or two.

I'm about 98.5% convinced that we will indeed be blessed by a squad of gladiators in this wave. I mean, how could they not include them??...

[Lamaclown]

If I had to choose it would be gladiators.

I imagine that, except on water heavy maps, pirates would be like Obsidian Guards on a SOTM map. Well, maybe not that bad but you get the idea.

Also, as the point has already been made, we have an existing fig (Spartacus) who needs a boost.

[FOOTBALLDUDE88]

I would like to see a squad of pirates with a pirate leader like Blackbeard or someone similar to him like Jack Sparrow or Will Turner or maybe even Davy Jones.
Gladiators are OK but it could only be a squad because we already have 3 Gladiator heros.

[ICEMASTER]

I vote both. If you have a gladiator squad with bonding I think they would get used more often.:|
Pirates would be cool but they would need a water special. Like, RAFT pirates do not have to stop on water spaces.:)

[Poseidon's trident]

My vote doesn't go to gladiators or pirates it goes to....

giant Soulborg Vipers with laser beam eyes, razor sharp tails and a fuzzy teddy bear impaled on their teeth. That would be so cool.[/quote]
:)

[Rich10]

If I had to choose it would be gladiators.

I imagine that, except on water heavy maps, pirates would be like Obsidian Guards on a SOTM map. Well, maybe not that bad but you get the idea.Maybe pirates would work in a large expansion set with water, a ship, etc.

[marro_shaman]

If I had to choose it would be gladiators.

I imagine that, except on water heavy maps, pirates would be like Obsidian Guards on a SOTM map. Well, maybe not that bad but you get the idea.Maybe pirates would work in a large expansion set with water, a ship, etc.

YES!!! Master set 3 - Battle for the Seas!!

[johnny139]

I'm hoping for gladiators this wave, personally. Sparty is a loose end that needs to be tied up - and I'd rather they put a lid on one theme before opening another can of flavor.

But I do want pirates eventually, and the sooner the better.

[Troubleman23]

I'm hoping for gladiators this wave, personally. Sparty is a loose end that needs to be tied up - and I'd rather they put a lid on one theme before opening another can of flavor.

But I do want pirates eventually, and the sooner the better.
I totally agree. I posted this in the Wave 9 Discussion thread but I was confused on why it seems that we are opening new themes and new types of figs. In Wave 8 we got a lot of elves to add to the 2 or 3 we already had, and we will be good on elves for a long while.

Why start new themes when there are so many more that need to be finished/expanded first?

[Troubleman23]

-removed

Sorry Double post...

[Syrn]

I really don't think that Gladiators are coming this wave. Because for marketing reasons, WoTC gives a good description of each pack. If they would have a Gladiators pack, they would say Gladiators. If there's anything this wave, its gonna be Dreadgulls. But yeah, we need a Gladiator squad, even if I don't think its gonna happen until wave 10.

[Darkwarrior_7]

Maybe I'm just disenchanted with gladiators in Heroscape because they've been basically useless since they came out. Also though, there are a lot of cool historical pirates they could do, and a lot of cool sculpts. Setting aside PotC, pirates just seem a lot cooler to me than gladiators.

You know what I could really get into? Mongols! Or how about some Zulu warriors? Either of those would be more interesting and unexpected than gladiators or pirates!

:pirate: See?

[Gold1]

I would like a gladiator squad. Besides the fact that some of you think Spartacus is useless by himself, I think that a few more gladiators would add more flavor to the game. I also wouldn't mind maybe another gladiator hero or two.

[themaster]

I DON'T WANT PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although gladiators would be nice.

[IAmBatman]

Well, with logic like that, I'm sure WOTC will never give us pirates.
In an ideal world, we'd get Pirates and Pirate ships. This is not that world, so I'll be content with whatever Gladiators or Gorillinators or whatever else called "brawlers" we get in the meantime.

[Knight_Of_Einar]

For the people who say Pirates are water baced units, relly has nothing to do with HS. HS is based on Personality, not where they are from or where they spend 95% of there time. As for Gladiator squad, grately dissagry, Gladiators where loners, fought by them selfs in the arena not with comrads. So I hope to see Pirates befor more gladiators. Pluse a good poin was Made about neather being in wave 9 , when I think oof brawlers I think of s a street gang with bats and knifevs.

[TheSparkleInYourWater]

I voted both. If we had neither and I had to choose I would have went with pirates. I'm hoping for gladiators this wave though, been needing them to make the others more potent. I don't think the pirates need to be a whole faction with multiple units just 1 unique squad of four should do. Make them at a point cost of 125 or something that a lot of units aren't at and they can have their own little place.

As for gladiators being better fighters than pirates because of their training; maybe they were. Practice makes perfect however and pirates may have fought with their own comrades on a regular basis. In the end they were all men and some of the better fighters could of been pirates.

[Cthulhu1979]

I would perfer gladiators to pirates, but this post is in defense of those that believe pirates would not work in Heroscape.

I can see how one can make the arguement that pirates would not work in Heroscape. Pirates were, for the most part, notorious for fighting while at sea.

While some folks are swift to say that Vikings are basically pirates, I retort with the fact that Vikings were (at times) raiders more than they were pirates. Further, there were Vikings that were explorers, traders, and mercenaries. However, that has little to do with the point at hand.

Long and short, Vikings are known for fighting on land moreso than on the sea, as are Gladiators, and soldiers, etc... While we have pieces that can "fly", they still operate mainly on land.

Having pirates, to me, necessitates having a pirate ship. Pirates without a ship are just colourfully dressed rogues. It is like having a WW1 fighter pilot without a plane.

While a pilot will certainly have some hand-to-hand potential, without a plane, he's similar to any other soldier.

Having a pirate shipwreck terrain could be neat though...

~Cthulhu1979

[gorthan313]

Setting aside PotC, pirates just seem a lot cooler to me than gladiators.



*Gorthan313 sets aside PotC as well*


Wow! Pirates ARE cooler this way;)!


(That was sarcasm BTW)

[johnny139]

Having pirates, to me, necessitates having a pirate ship. Pirates without a ship are just colourfully dressed rogues. It is like having a WW1 fighter pilot without a plane.

While a pilot will certainly have some hand-to-hand potential, without a plane, he's similar to any other soldier.

Having a pirate shipwreck terrain could be neat though...

~Cthulhu1979

And I retort with the fact we've had paratroopers since the game was created.

Paratroopers need a plane in the same way a pirate needs a boat - if we could sneak them in without airplanes, we can sneak some shipmates without their ship.

[TheSparkleInYourWater]

I agree with Johnny; no ships needed. It's not like pirates are sea creatures, they came from the land. When I think of pirates a ship isn't the first thing I think of like when someone says airplane pilot. The pirates are more unique than just being labeled sailors.

If you still need some ships or something they could easily put one in a master set without changing any mechanics of game play. Just make it like the Marro Hive, a LOS blocker on a special 6 hex water piece with the ship sticking up into the air like it's sunk/sinking then add some rock formations for extra LOS blockers like a cove and vwhala!

[GaryLASQ]

I don't want gladiators or pirates.

How about some Elliot Ness type heroes for Jandar?

And some Al Capone type "heroes" for Utgar?

Voted for more gladiators.

[Darkwarrior_7]

Setting aside PotC, pirates just seem a lot cooler to me than gladiators.



*Gorthan313 sets aside PotC as well*


Wow! Pirates ARE cooler this way;)!


(That was sarcasm BTW)


YES! Let's start a "set-aside-PotC-and-think-about-pirates" bandwagon. The world would be a better place for pirate-thinkers everywhere! Anyone else on board?!
:fencing:

[Griffin]

Having pirates, to me, necessitates having a pirate ship. Pirates without a ship are just colourfully dressed rogues. It is like having a WW1 fighter pilot without a plane.

While a pilot will certainly have some hand-to-hand potential, without a plane, he's similar to any other soldier.

Having a pirate shipwreck terrain could be neat though...

~Cthulhu1979

And I retort with the fact we've had paratroopers since the game was created.

Paratroopers need a plane in the same way a pirate needs a boat - if we could sneak them in without airplanes, we can sneak some shipmates without their ship.

Heck yeah! If people can use their imagination enough in claiming that Kyrie are dropping our Airborne Elite onto the battlefield, than I say why can't Armok Vipers swim our pirates right onto the battlefield. If we had Mermaids (and I hope we never do), I would have suggested they drop me hearties amongst the previously mentioned land lovers. It is my guess that those who are against pirates are simply trying to avoid one of two things.

1. they have feelings for Orlando Bloom, and that confuses them. or
2. they want to avoid playing against people in tournaments who are itching for an excuse to say "me Hearties". :wave:

[Greyelephant]

I love how Gladiators are supposed to be more honorable then Pirates.

Here's some food for thought.

1. Most gladiators were prisoners of war, slaves bought for the purpose, or criminals sentenced to serve in the schools (damnati ad ludos).

2. A quote.
The men have no defensive armour. They are exposed to blows at all points, and no one ever strikes in vain....There is no helmet or shield to deflect the weapon. What is the need of defensive armour, or of skill? All these mean delaying death....The spectators demand that the slayer shall face the man who is to slay him in his turn; and they always reserve the latest conqueror for another butchering. The outcome of every fight is death, and the means are fire and sword. This sort of thing goes on while the arena is empty" (Epistle VII).

3. Free men also volunteered to be gladiators (auctorati) and, by the end of the Republic, they comprised half the number who fought. Often, they were social outcasts, freed slaves, discharged soldiers, or former gladiators who had been liberated on retirement but chose to return for a period of service

4. even senators and emperors competed. When a member of the Gracchi fought as a retiarius, the scandal was all the greater because his face could be seen. Indeed, writes Tacitus, the year AD 63 of Nero's reign "witnessed gladiatorial displays on a no less magnificent scale than before, but exceeding all precedent in the number of distinguished women and senators disgracing themselves in the arena."


5. The bestiarii (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/bestiarii.html) were not gladiators, as such, but fought for their lives in the arena against wild beasts; the venatores were specialists of wild animal hunts (venationes (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/venationes.html)). The popularity of these cruel spectacles was such that, by the time they were abolished in AD 523 during the consulship of Flavius Anicius Maximus, tens of thousands of animals had died, and entire species were no longer to be found in their native habitat, all having been captured (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/capture.html) or driven away. There were no more hippopotamuses in Nubia or elephants in northern Africa; the lions which once had been represented in Assyrian reliefs were gone. Either five thousand or ten thousand animals were reported to have died in the dedication of the Colosseum; eleven thousand died in the celebration of Trajan's conquest of Dacia; and Augustus boasted that, in the twenty-six venationes presented in his reign, thirty-five hundred animals had been killed.




They are no more honorable then your pirates.

Plus, how could I ever turn down a Blackbeard the Pirate with cannon fuses lite in his beard?


I vote both. The more the merrier.

[gorthan313]

Setting aside PotC, pirates just seem a lot cooler to me than gladiators.



*Gorthan313 sets aside PotC as well*


Wow! Pirates ARE cooler this way;)!


(That was sarcasm BTW)


YES! Let's start a "set-aside-PotC-and-think-about-pirates" bandwagon. The world would be a better place for pirate-thinkers everywhere! Anyone else on board?!
:fencing:



;)


(I guess my point is that pirates aren't cool to me no matter how you look at them)

[Jexik]

Although I'm not big into pirates, I think they could be okay if done 'right.'

;) (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=727702&postcount=51) Click the smiley!

[whipmaster]

Gladiators, pirates just will not be right without ships.

[Thorgrim]

What makes people think brawlers are pirates? Pirates don't brawl, they steal. Otherwise they use guns and cannons to subdue ships (If this is the type of Pirate you were thinking of). I'll feel dumb if I am wrong, but I am almost certain it is not Pirates.

[SamIam4191]

I think they need both because pirates could be Einar and probably have very good attack but poor defense and good specials. And we need more gladiators cause there just cool

[Sup3rS0n1c]

Gladiators are a possibility, but I think that pirates are out of the question. like Thorgrim said, pirates don't brawl, they steal (well, actually, they plunder and drink, but aren't they all on the same boat? :D [/piratepun]) Also, I don't think Einar has any chance of getting pirates, because his armies are mostly based on honor and discipline, and pirates are the baddest, wildest, most ruthless (anyone see any possible personality type there? :)), and totally dishonorable guys I can think of (except for the Nazis, but let's try to stay away from them, shall we? No wink here.)

[Nelson]

i vote that we forgo pirates and gladiators and go for penguins with machine-guns

[marro_shaman]

i vote that we forgo pirates and gladiators and go for penguins with machine-guns

pirates...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MlDzc5i2DDQ/SXVRm-Q5IwI/AAAAAAAAAm4/F1pXAIMPlGk/s320/Pirate_Plunder_by_kiriko_moth.jpg

or Gladiators
http://www.woofsd.com/2000_Gladiator_John_Ric.jpg



or s penguin with a gun?
http://p-userpic.livejournal.com/56795746/519340




I'll take the penguin any day. :D

[Agent Minivann]

Dude, those are so not gladiators. Legionnaires, yes. Gladiators, no.

[marro_shaman]

Dude, those are so not gladiators. Legionnaires, yes. Gladiators, no.

Pssh.. they're just Gladiators that won their freedom. ;)

[spiteofthedice]

Who checks "neither" in a thread like this? The question is "Which new HS figures would you like?" and someone's reaction is "Meh. Neither. I'm good." I don't get that at all. Present me with any choice between two new HS releases and I'll be able to tell you which one I'm more excited for. Odds are, the answer will be "Both."

[Greyelephant]

Who checks "neither" in a thread like this? The question is "Which new HS figures would you like?" and someone's reaction is "Meh. Neither. I'm good." I don't get that at all. Present me with any choice between two new HS releases and I'll be able to tell you which one I'm more excited for. Odds are, the answer will be "Both."


Agreed 100%. I honestly can't understand why anyone wouldn't want more figures period!

[Thorgrim]

Who checks "neither" in a thread like this? The question is "Which new HS figures would you like?" and someone's reaction is "Meh. Neither. I'm good." I don't get that at all. Present me with any choice between two new HS releases and I'll be able to tell you which one I'm more excited for. Odds are, the answer will be "Both."


Agreed 100%. I honestly can't understand why anyone wouldn't want more figures period!

We as consumers have an unquenchable thirst for heroscape. The world demands it. More is better.... AH! Double negitives! My one weakness!

[spiteofthedice]

Who checks "neither" in a thread like this? The question is "Which new HS figures would you like?" and someone's reaction is "Meh. Neither. I'm good." I don't get that at all. Present me with any choice between two new HS releases and I'll be able to tell you which one I'm more excited for. Odds are, the answer will be "Both."


Agreed 100%. I honestly can't understand why anyone wouldn't want more figures period!

That said, I checked "Gladiators" in this poll because I'm fairly indifferent on pirates in particular and the gladiator heroes need the reinforcements. But as a general rule, if I can't pick one or the other, I'm picking "Both" just on principle.

[Agent Minivann]

So when asked which one you would like to see in wave 10, ponies or chimeras, you would answer "both"? :p

[Griffin]

Who checks "neither" in a thread like this? The question is "Which new HS figures would you like?" and someone's reaction is "Meh. Neither. I'm good." I don't get that at all. Present me with any choice between two new HS releases and I'll be able to tell you which one I'm more excited for. Odds are, the answer will be "Both."

Curious. What would you rather have, a 7 hex War Turtle with stealth flying or a single base covered in mad cow disease :lol:?

[marro_shaman]

Curious. What would you rather have, a 7 hex War Turtle with stealth flying or a single base covered in mad cow disease :lol:?

Mad Cow Disease sounds like an awesome glyph!

[Griffin]

"If the Glyph was made of blue cheese would ya eat it? I know I would!"

[spiteofthedice]

So when asked which one you would like to see in wave 10, ponies or chimeras, you would answer "both"? :p

BOTH.

Curious. What would you rather have, a 7 hex War Turtle with stealth flying or a single base covered in mad cow disease :lol:?

BOTH.


You guys suck. :lol:

[StarofEarendil]

Voted "Gladiators" since that seems like what we're getting (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=770).

[Cthulhu1979]

Having pirates, to me, necessitates having a pirate ship. Pirates without a ship are just colourfully dressed rogues. It is like having a WW1 fighter pilot without a plane.

While a pilot will certainly have some hand-to-hand potential, without a plane, he's similar to any other soldier.

Having a pirate shipwreck terrain could be neat though...

~Cthulhu1979

And I retort with the fact we've had paratroopers since the game was created.

Paratroopers need a plane in the same way a pirate needs a boat - if we could sneak them in without airplanes, we can sneak some shipmates without their ship.

I think you might be missing my point. Yeah, we have paratroopers, but tell me, how much are they known for fighting while parachuting? Is that reflected in the squad's stats? They are dropped and do their fighting on land, that's what they are known for. It is, in my opinion, what makes them unique and interesting. By not having a plane for them to drop from, the designers aren't robbing the Airborne Elite of anything that makes them interesting.

Heck, I'd be up for having a wrecked airplane LoS blocker...

If you want to have pirates that drop like the Airborne Elite, but only on spaces adjacent to water, that's fine and dandy, but I can't help but think that you'd be losing a lot of what makes pirates unique and interesting. As I said, they'd be a bunch of colourful rogues, just as the Airborne Elite are a bunch of soldiers.

Who seem to actually be lacking parachutes :)

Long and short, I feel that if they lack a ship, you are shafting the pirates. If they're gonna do something, they might as well do it right. I know that if they made pirates, I'd be clamouring for a ship of some sort.

~Cthulhu1979

[Agent Minivann]

Having pirates, to me, necessitates having a pirate ship. Pirates without a ship are just colourfully dressed rogues. It is like having a WW1 fighter pilot without a plane.

While a pilot will certainly have some hand-to-hand potential, without a plane, he's similar to any other soldier.

Having a pirate shipwreck terrain could be neat though...

~Cthulhu1979

And I retort with the fact we've had paratroopers since the game was created.

Paratroopers need a plane in the same way a pirate needs a boat - if we could sneak them in without airplanes, we can sneak some shipmates without their ship.

I think you might be missing my point. Yeah, we have paratroopers, but tell me, how much are they known for fighting while parachuting? Is that reflected in the squad's stats? They are dropped and do their fighting on land, that's what they are known for. It is, in my opinion, what makes them unique and interesting. By not having a plane for them to drop from, the designers aren't robbing the Airborne Elite of anything that makes them interesting.

Heck, I'd be up for having a wrecked airplane LoS blocker...

If you want to have pirates that drop like the Airborne Elite, but only on spaces adjacent to water, that's fine and dandy, but I can't help but think that you'd be losing a lot of what makes pirates unique and interesting. As I said, they'd be a bunch of colourful rogues, just as the Airborne Elite are a bunch of soldiers.

Who seem to actually be lacking parachutes :)

Long and short, I feel that if they lack a ship, you are shafting the pirates. If they're gonna do something, they might as well do it right. I know that if they made pirates, I'd be clamouring for a ship of some sort.

~Cthulhu1979
Or to put it a slightly different way, there aren't going to be pirates until the game designers come up with modular ship pieces. One part of the map is the ship, the other part water. In a sense, castle set 2. The pirates would likely get some sort of movement bonus while on the ship terrain. Without the ships they just don't make sense. Airborne elite make sense within the Valhalla continuum. Being dropped by an archkyrie is kind of hokey, but it makes some amount of sense.

[Griffin]

Being dropped by an archkyrie is kind of hokey
I wouldn't disagree with you there.:)

[Gypsy]

After Viewing the Evening News, I can see that we have New twist to the Pirate Discussion. It seems to go something like;

Commandos 3, Pirates 0, with the leftover Live Pirate Surrendering.

I believe that the Commandos Card needs to be Reworked to include; Stealth, Night-Dropped off Pirates Stearn with Sniper Rifles, Wait Quietly in Water until Stupid Pirates stick heads out window.

:johnwoo2: :hijacked: :surrender:

Just My Opinion....:reapershrug:

[Thorgrim]

Having pirates, to me, necessitates having a pirate ship. Pirates without a ship are just colourfully dressed rogues. It is like having a WW1 fighter pilot without a plane.

While a pilot will certainly have some hand-to-hand potential, without a plane, he's similar to any other soldier.

Having a pirate shipwreck terrain could be neat though...

~Cthulhu1979

And I retort with the fact we've had paratroopers since the game was created.

Paratroopers need a plane in the same way a pirate needs a boat - if we could sneak them in without airplanes, we can sneak some shipmates without their ship.

I think you might be missing my point. Yeah, we have paratroopers, but tell me, how much are they known for fighting while parachuting? Is that reflected in the squad's stats? They are dropped and do their fighting on land, that's what they are known for. It is, in my opinion, what makes them unique and interesting. By not having a plane for them to drop from, the designers aren't robbing the Airborne Elite of anything that makes them interesting.

Heck, I'd be up for having a wrecked airplane LoS blocker...

If you want to have pirates that drop like the Airborne Elite, but only on spaces adjacent to water, that's fine and dandy, but I can't help but think that you'd be losing a lot of what makes pirates unique and interesting. As I said, they'd be a bunch of colourful rogues, just as the Airborne Elite are a bunch of soldiers.

Who seem to actually be lacking parachutes :)

Long and short, I feel that if they lack a ship, you are shafting the pirates. If they're gonna do something, they might as well do it right. I know that if they made pirates, I'd be clamouring for a ship of some sort.

~Cthulhu1979

Uuuuuuummmmmmm, no planes. They are dropped by kyries. Planes arn't in the picture.