Game stores

[srmalloy]

I was at one of the local game stores today (Game Towne, down in Old Town in San Diego), and was surprised to find that they had a HeroScape master set and a half dozen of the blister packs from several different release waves. Asking the proprietor about it, he said that they'd gotten enough people asking for it that they started carrying the HeroScape line, pricing them to match TRU/Target/Wal-Mart, and that so far, they'd been moving them fast enough that they were continuing to stock them.

So not all game stores are avoiding HeroScape because they can't compete with the big chains...

[ninthdoc]

That is great news. Thanks for sharing it! :D

[srmalloy]

If the lackluster ordering and stocking at Wal-Mart and TRU is allowing the game stores to make money stocking HeroScape, then it may turn out to be good for spreading the game wider as an alternative to the pewter-miniature games, keeping the demand up and encouraging Hasbro to widen their distribution.

[Malechi]

The only thing that will kill the B&M game stores from sales is the usual massive mark up they put on HS. If they can get the product on the shelves and price it competitively, they should make up in volume what they would have gotten selling that one MS in 1/10th the time. This also garners them more foot traffic. Now, if only game stores could be managed by someone other than the ex-D&D fanatic more interested in his +3 Horn of Wallowing than satisfying his customers ...

[skyknight]

The only thing that will kill the B&M game stores from sales is the usual massive mark up they put on HS. If they can get the product on the shelves and price it competitively, they should make up in volume what they would have gotten selling that one MS in 1/10th the time. This also garners them more foot traffic. Now, if only game stores could be managed by someone other than the ex-D&D fanatic more interested in his +3 Horn of Wallowing than satisfying his customers ...


:lol: :lol:

[markwars]

+3 Horn of Wallowing

:rofl:

[pashadowops]

+3 Horn of Wallowing....Jeez take it easy.

I've been playing D&D for over 25 years however I'm not a fanatic. I play it like I would play Monopoly...it's just a game.

Now as for gaming stores carrying HS, I wouldn't count on too many of them doing that simply for the reasons mentioned above. The store owners have there head stuck too far up their.....(well you know) to know whats good for business. I've spoken to a few and they never heard of Heroscape. Even when I describe it to them and how it may improve traffic, they prefer to stay with the tried and true FRPG and CTG's. You kinda can't fault them for that but they could be a little more open minded. IMO.

[boom]

Two stores I frequent here in L.A. county have HS boosters for sale. Sadly, the $14.99 price tag on them at both stores have them sitting on the shelves ever since they were put out. I buy plenty of other product from them, but can't get around the $5 difference to be had at larger stores.

[Malechi]

That is what I was talking about! The Game Store owners just don't understand basic economics. They would rather invest money in what they effectively turn into a "Shelf Display" by demanding a 50% return in investment and then go so far as to state they won't carry HS in the future because it just does not sell. Rather than realistically making a 15 to 20% profit with a quick turnaround on invested monies. You wonder why Game/Comic shops go out of business with such frequency?!?

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

+3 Horn of Wallowing

:rofl:

My sig says it all.

[Malechi]

+3 Horn of Wallowing

:rofl:

My sig says it all.

Phangz is hella funny.

Of course, there is only one member on this entire site, perhaps even the entire world wide web that will actually understand that reference ... me!

[Jeabird]

Malechi has it right. I went to my local store and they had HS but the Large Heros pack which sells for $20 at Wally world was $31 there. They have done no promoting of it, and wonder why it has dust on it.

[Malechi]

Malechi has it right.

.. And, that's all you need know for all things!

:twisted:

[Neveryll]

That is an example of running a store like an idiot on the ones pricing it up like that. If you carry a product you should know its quality, its crowd, and what your competitors are selling it for. My wife and me partner on a business and its just good business sense to make some basic guidelines on what to sell stock for and know when you need to bend/change them for the right circumstances.

As a perfect example, if my local game store stocked the new hero expansion and snow and marked them up a little bit they would make a killing in the volume alone once word got around.

[Agent Minivann]

I was talking to my wife today about this. I haven't ever told her about the $5000 minimum order, but I did tell her about the game store prices. She says "maybe we should buy them and sell them to the game stores. Things might be looking up in the Minivann house.












But I know better than to take that as license.

[hexmenunited]

Speaking of game stores . . . The Games Chest in Valley View Mall (D/FW) has figure packs for near $20 and Tundra for $35. And yet they quietly wonder why I no longer lay down the cash for any of their inventory. I admit, I do browse their shelves to get a hands-on look at what I will later order online. These days, it's Lone Star Comics (they are friendlier than TGC and they demo games for my son and let him play) or the Internet. Or Hobbytown USA if I want advice on modelling.

[Sweetcurse]

The store near my house doesn't carry HS. I asked once and the guy said he would never put out such a prodcut because it would never sell. He said: "If WM can't sell it neither can I." He's right in a way, it wouldn't sell because he would price it so high.

[hawkdood]

Now, if only game stores could be managed by someone other than the ex-D&D fanatic more interested in his +3 Horn of Wallowing than satisfying his customers ...

lol the same thing happens with my local game stores. all D&D fanatics who say they can't compete with Wal Mart's prices when wal mart doesn't even sell HS and their just using that as an excuse so he/she can play more D&D with other fanatic's that care more about their +3 Horn of Wallowing's than their actual lives.

[spiteofthedice]

Its 2006
No, Its 2008!

Happy Ressurection Day, Everyone!

[1Mmirg]

Well, at least Resurrection Day has come in a new era--FLGS are starting to carry HS and even price it at levels that gamers can afford. Thank the Wizards that HS has begun a new birth in the FLGS market. :D

[Soul Shackle]

:reaper::reaper:

[Hogg]

Two stores I frequent here in L.A. county have HS boosters for sale. Sadly, the $14.99 price tag on them at both stores have them sitting on the shelves ever since they were put out. I buy plenty of other product from them, but can't get around the $5 difference to be had at larger stores.

Don't forget retail is $13. Wal-Mart is selling well below MSRP. So the FLGS is only $2 above suggested cost.

[robbdaman]

My old FLGS back in Arizona had Heroscape in stock last I saw. Pricing was reasonable, not clearance cheapo from Wal-Mart cheap but something I'd buy if I needed what they had.

R~

[GromBloodboy]

My local TRU didn't have any. Well, at least my local game store gets them in days within release.

[Rodriquez]

Speaking of game stores . . . The Games Chest in Valley View Mall (D/FW) has figure packs for near $20 and Tundra for $35. And yet they quietly wonder why I no longer lay down the cash for any of their inventory. I admit, I do browse their shelves to get a hands-on look at what I will later order online. These days, it's Lone Star Comics (they are friendlier than TGC and they demo games for my son and let him play) or the Internet. Or Hobbytown USA if I want advice on modelling.

which lone star?
I'm actually just a few minutes from the one in arlington(even with the move they made to be near UTA)

I was there a few days ago and they had wave 8 sets at 12.99 or 13.99, which was suprising as the last time I was fiq packs there they were 18 each.
however the master set they had was still 59.99.


cheers
Rod

[1Mmirg]

War and Pieces just got several boxes in of Wave 8 and 8.5--they sell them for MSRP (though they gave us a real steal when we did our tourney there to celebrate the release: 25% off).

I recommend making a relationship with your stores; you may find similar deals possible.

[hero9510]

Anybody from Northern New Jersey seen these in the local stores?

[GreenLanturn]

The only thing that will kill the B&M game stores from sales is the usual massive mark up they put on HS. If they can get the product on the shelves and price it competitively, they should make up in volume what they would have gotten selling that one MS in 1/10th the time. This also garners them more foot traffic. Now, if only game stores could be managed by someone other than the ex-D&D fanatic more interested in his +3 Horn of Wallowing than satisfying his customers ...

I was just at Wal Mart and got 3 expansions for $10 a pop; whereas, the Games by James near me has them a full $5 more.

I agree that buying from chains is a bad idea because it puts the FLAGS under but its hard to sympathize with people who won't listen to logical reasoning and the most basic economics. All I can really think of is go buy at wal mart or where ever you get them cheap and bring the receipt to the FLAGS and show them that at this price (point [insert dramatic emotion] at the receipt) your HS stock will sell fast then leave... [use same dramatic emotion (this time as an adjective)] if you feel the need.

If it works you could have a new place to buy your plasticrack! Asking never hurts! The store clerk should never turn you away after you make them angry as long as you wave cash in their face8).

[braveheart101]

Yeah, my LGS has hs for $16 a pop...I never even buy scape from now a days!

[SuperflyTNT]

My store, ACME games, prices them at 12.99, same as HasbroToyShop.com, and I really appreciate that. The bigger expansions are 19.99 but I can live with 3 bucks since I'd have to drop 3$ anyhow on shipping.

I just hit 3 Walmarts today and got a Kilts and Commandos (YEAH BoEEEEY), a set of Heroes of Trollsford from Wave 4 and a set of Heroes of Darguth (sp?) from Wave 6. I also got a couple of Zombie packs. Seems to me if you go way out in the sticks you can find a good deal still on older stuff.

[greenless]

Well part of the problem with pricing is the strong arm Wal-Mart exerts on its suppliers. Wal-Mart is big enough that its corporate entity can say:

"we are going to pay $XX per item and buy XX million of them, if you don't like that we will find a supplier that does or not carry the product"

the FLGS don't have that kind of buying power. Walmart probably buys HS exps for only a few bucks a pop and Game stores probably pay close to WM prices for them from the supplier. that is the problem with Big Chain stores they have the power to hurt the little guy and make them selves bigger in one fell swoop.

[GreenLanturn]

Well part of the problem with pricing is the strong arm Wal-Mart exerts on its suppliers. Wal-Mart is big enough that its corporate entity can say:

"we are going to pay $XX per item and buy XX million of them, if you don't like that we will find a supplier that does or not carry the product"

the FLGS don't have that kind of buying power. Walmart probably buys HS exps for only a few bucks a pop and Game stores probably pay close to WM prices for them from the supplier. that is the problem with Big Chain stores they ahve the power to hurt the little guy and make them selves bigger in one fell swoop.

I don't see how Walmart can just say we'll pay this much like it or leave it. It makes little sense to me because if a customer at a hot dog stand wants a cheaper dog the man selling just says "no." The stand will lose one buyer but all the other buyers will still purchase their product. Am i right? Walmart couldn't have that much of a sway over all this could they?

[greenless]

Well part of the problem with pricing is the strong arm Wal-Mart exerts on its suppliers. Wal-Mart is big enough that its corporate entity can say:

"we are going to pay $XX per item and buy XX million of them, if you don't like that we will find a supplier that does or not carry the product"

the FLGS don't have that kind of buying power. Walmart probably buys HS exps for only a few bucks a pop and Game stores probably pay close to WM prices for them from the supplier. that is the problem with Big Chain stores they ahve the power to hurt the little guy and make them selves bigger in one fell swoop.

I don't see how Walmart can just say we'll pay this much like it or leave it. It makes little sense to me because if a customer at a hot dog stand wants a cheaper dog the man selling just says "no." The stand will lose one buyer but all the other buyers will still purchase their product. Am i right? Walmart couldn't have that much of a sway over all this could they?

if that one customer is buying 10000 hotdogs i doubt the stand would refuse the sale unless the loss per sale was outstanding.

Now, lets say Hasbro makes exp packs and sells a few thousand units per quarter at a regular wholesale profit of 2 dollar profit per pack. Then lets say Walmart offers to buy: 10 million packs a year at only a 50 cent profit for hasbro (and as an added stipulation hasbro cannot sell to other chain stores at the lower Walmart price) OR no packets at all. it makes sense for hasbro to sell the ten million packs for a 5 million profit rather than selling only a few thousand packs for a lower toatl profit since most other chains were getting out of the game anyway. Walmart is known to use tactics like this to gain exclusives and so that they can garuntee lower prices.

I know if i was a wholesaler I would prefer to take a garanteed paycheck by selling exclusively to walmart, than to risk much lower sales with higher profit per unit and therefor lower total profit for more work selling less units to a ton of smaller stores. Walmart garatees high enough volume with lower profit margins whcih in the end works out to be more total profit.

[Kepler]

Game stores can't compete with Walmart. My LGS owner let me see his prices in a catalog (he thought the book had retail prices and not his price) and it costs him $38 something for a small expansion set. If he sold that at Walmart prices he would make about two bucks a set. That isn't much profit for the low volumes that they sell at.

[Kroc]

...Wal-Mart ...can say: "we are going to pay $XX per item and buy XX million of them, ...I don't see how Walmart can just say we'll pay this much like it or leave it. ...Walmart couldn't have that much of a sway over all this could they? Yes they can.

My FLGS was selling small epansions for list price. I'm fine with that, but Walmart was selling for $3 less.

Since they are the last of the Big Box with a commitment to selling HS, who do you think is soaking up the price difference?

[Revdyer]

It's well documented that Wal*Mart does make price demands when offering purchase contracts. (This is perfectly legal. Some would call it "unfair." Others would call it "good business.") One of the most famous of these cases was with Toro lawnmowers. Wal*Mart insisted on a price that would allow them to under-cut the local hardware stores' prices on the same models, and, since they were purchasing four times as many units as all the independents put together, they got it.

[RobertDD]

Some of the things I read here are very recognizable. My game store also is struggling. I really like the guys running it (two brothers) but they have absolutely no business sense and think they know everything better.
When I mentioned to them that the new game they got in: MonsterPocalypse or something, was well received, but that it was collectible so I wasn't interested, they asked me: "Every game that is not collectable flops. Name one game that is not collectable that does well."
So I blurted out: "HeroScape!"
"Well, one serious game that is not for toddlers."
So I am thinking, yeah, OK, whatever. You don't even know your own business.

I offered these guys to buy an $80 game (StarCraft) from them and see if we could get a game of it together. They told me they gladly order the game for me, but they have no timeslots open to play it, as every night and every weekend they are playing D&D. It's also all the same people all the time. I am thinking to myself: when was the last time you made $80 on those guys.

The fervently keep telling me what places like Wal*Mart, Amazon and many discount online retailers do to the prices is illegal; that stores have to mark up a certain amount. I've been trying to find this "law" but have not been successful.

And in the end they wonder why I don't buy all my gaming needs from them, but why would I when they obviously are only interested in D&D. It's frustrating, I've tried to subtly indicate that spreading out might get them some more, different traffic in the store, but they tell me they can't make a profit on it (without even trying, they always know better).

I do really like the guys, and I do want to support them, but it's not a charity. Their store is so dirty and dusty that it is almost a health hazard, and I will not even talk about the bathroom. When do these guys get it through their heads they could be doing alright if they were open to some changes.

When I walked into Zombie Planet for the tournament organized by Kinseth I saw the opposite. That store looked fantastic, newest "Ticket to Ride" proudly displayed in stack on a table. Beautiful shelves with great content, most of it at or below retail. Plenty of tables to play on. Sometimes I feel I should open a store like that myself around here...

Of course I do try and get to my FLGS every Tuesday to play D&D....

FLGS-es, gotta love 'em

[Draconious]

I've gone so far as to place a ROTV SOTM and Marvel set on my local game stores for them... just to see if they could sell. Since my game store did not want to order heroscape. The SOTM set sold in a few days... the other two were still there the last time I checked, a month ago.

I did not ask for cash up front so they would not have to pay to stock it as an experiment to see if it would sell, but I think they think I gave it to them free... so might be an issue later. I got them cheap so I am only expecting about %75 of what they sold them for back on them.

If no problem, I have a few figure packs I might do the same thing with...

They keep claiming heroscape is too expensive to order... it is actually cheaper to buy it at walmart than their distributors.

They too are too busy playing D&D, their own game inventions, and HeroClix... I watched a few people play DnD while we were playing Scape there... they did not look to be having as much fun playing DnD as we where playing scape...

[SuperflyTNT]

Hey RobertDD, there is no law at all defining markups. People may make as much, or as little, profit as they wish. The funny thing is that they do not understand how the distribution and retail game works.

The big-boxes get much higher discounts to buy the products because they order truckloads of product rather than a few boosters and a couple of master sets. That means that they can make MORE profit, at lower prices, than the little gaming stores can, even at higher prices.

The only possible "law" that the *Misguided but otherwise amicable FLGS owners* could be talking about is if all the distributor/retailers were contractually bound to keep a price point above "X", which happens, but there is no way Hasbro can muscle around a contract like that with the largest company on the planet. Just not going to happen.

[GreenLanturn]

It's well documented that Wal*Mart does make price demands when offering purchase contracts. (This is perfectly legal. Some would call it "unfair." Others would call it "good business.") One of the most famous of these cases was with Toro lawnmowers. Wal*Mart insisted on a price that would allow them to under-cut the local hardware stores' prices on the same models, and, since they were purchasing four times as many units as all the independents put together, they got it.

Its true, something that big business owners admit to! Tough business makes profits. My econ professor was telling us this the other day. :oops:I need to study more.

[RobertDD]

I've gone so far as to place a ROTV SOTM and Marvel set on my local game stores for them... just to see if they could sell. Since my game store did not want to order heroscape. The SOTM set sold in a few days... the other two were still there the last time I checked, a month ago.

I did not ask for cash up front so they would not have to pay to stock it as an experiment to see if it would sell, but I think they think I gave it to them free... so might be an issue later. I got them cheap so I am only expecting about %75 of what they sold them for back on them.

If no problem, I have a few figure packs I might do the same thing with...

They keep claiming heroscape is too expensive to order... it is actually cheaper to buy it at walmart than their distributors.

They too are too busy playing D&D, their own game inventions, and HeroClix... I watched a few people play DnD while we were playing Scape there... they did not look to be having as much fun playing DnD as we where playing scape...
I'd swear we visit the same FLGS, except your location tells me that's extremely unlikely. :)
My FLGS-es own game is called Ad Astra. They are currently working on version 3, it's been around for 30 years and there are tons of players in New England that play it. At least, that's what they say....
The only newsgroup I found had three posts in it and has been dormant for the last 2 years. :rofl:

Hey RobertDD, there is no law at all defining markups. People may make as much, or as little, profit as they wish. The funny thing is that they do not understand how the distribution and retail game works.

The big-boxes get much higher discounts to buy the products because they order truckloads of product rather than a few boosters and a couple of master sets. That means that they can make MORE profit, at lower prices, than the little gaming stores can, even at higher prices.

The only possible "law" that the misguided but otherwise really friendly owner of the FLGS could be talking about is if all the distributor/retailers were contractually bound to keep a price point above "X", which happens, but there is no way Hasbro can muscle around a contract like that with the largest company on the planet. Just not going to happen.
Fixed the above, and I am fairly certain you are correct, but it's not what I am being told.

Then again, this is the same guy that told me that if her buys something for $50 and sells it for $100, he has marked it up 50%. I tried arguing against that but quickly gave up...
I tell ya, these guys really have no business being in retail....

[SuperflyTNT]

ROFL... I amended mine as well. You may wish to have them contact WotC and look at their Direct Sales program http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=retailer/faq since they can order direct. I don't know if they're adding disty channels right now, but they do indeed sell direct provided the retailer buys enough product and makes a commitment on league stuff. Sounds like these guys might be a good fit.

[RobertDD]

Interesting. I did not know that. Do you have a link to an official ssource (or even a thread on here)?
Their argument to not order directly from WotC has been the minimum order quantity of Alliance. They have trouble even making that every two weeks, and if they don't they loose their status as store (again I am just regurgitating what I am told).

There is some truth in it in that several suppliers have chosen to be distributed solely through Alliance, Wizkids being the most important example.

The thing is, they don't renew. Right now, imho, they should be running a few games of Agricola, have a StarCraft game going, a descent campaign perhaps, some HeroScape would make sense, all in addition to their D&D activities (which they should scale back to maybe two nights a week) and their Magic games.

I am trying to get some real numbers together myself to see how feasable it would be to buy them and hire them as employees, but have them run their store my way (clean, faster turnover of merchandise, internet sales component) Just musing over some possibilities...

[SuperflyTNT]

You could buy them and get rid of them - keep them as consultants on a contract basis in the short term. Seems like as nice as they are it's still clueless on business matters.

More proof you only need balls and vision to start a successful business!

The link that I posted above actually has a link within http://www.wizards.com/retailer/docs/Tieredprogramfinal.pdf with the program details. Your best bet is to call them at the number or email them and see if you can get some solid numbers.

[fomox]

"Well, one serious game that is not for toddlers."


Oh man. Lots of kids play chess. Is chess a kids' game? And even if it is, does that mean they'd refuse to make money selling it? I don't get that.

I remember going to my local game and comic store as a kid, and being mocked for buying a copy of West Coast Avengers. (Granted, it wasn't a very good comic.) They went out of business a few years later.

FLGS owners can keep their geek-snobbery, or keep their business, but they probably can't keep both.

The store where we had the KC tourney was a great example of how to run a game store. Clean, organized, great variety, friendly service, and decent prices.