Most Worthless Hero or Squad Award

[Thor]

With 5 waves of figures, and various other expansion sets now out and on store shelves we have a ton of heros and squads to choose from that are simply awesome. However, there are also some that many consider to stink like crap. They are either over priced or near worthless in the game because of their abilities/stats. My question is, which of the following figures is the worst in your opinion? Which of these figures seems to have a point cost way out there when considering his or her stats and abilities?

Now I know some people will argue that some or all of the choices are perfectly fine right now. Also a couple of the choices may get figures in the future that justify their cost. However, as it stands all of these figures have had heavy questioning about their worth. This is why they have made it into the hall of shame semi-finals. Now lets vote and see who the worst figure in Valhalla truly is!

[maliciouspigpig]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

a 7 defense ranged unit? Heck no!

[LilNewbie]

I agree about the Zettian Guards. Been considering making them 50 points to see if they get chosen more often.

Newb.

[happyjosiah]

I happen to like the zettians. They are so incredibly tough for a ranged unit.
DW7k completely blows. I may never USE Dund, but at least I could see him somehow bring useful. All the others get usage.
DW7K. Blows.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I happen to like the zettians. They are so incredibly tough for a ranged unit.
There you have it!

I voted for Obsidians because they're terrain specific, slow, and just too many points for me to invest into taking a chance. I won't say they're overcosted, but that I have better options for 100 points.

[Aranas]

I agree about the Zettian Guards. Been considering making them 50 points to see if they get chosen more often.

Newb.
We did that for the past month (ZG: 50 points) and they are back on the field now.

I voted for (against) Dund. Could have been Khosumet.

Aranas

[K/H_Addict]

I voted Obsidian Guards.

Dund is excellent against swarm armies, like orcs or marros.

DW7K is well worth the 100 points, with his stats and abilities. It's just that his usage comes dwon to luck rather than skill.

Gorillanators are the fastest moving squad we have, and they have range. With the new Movement bonding teh nakita agents have they are even better for 90 points.

Khosumet is awesome with a squad or 2 of wolves. After all, he does keep them form commiting suicide!

Obsidian Guards. Has anypone found a use for the guys? i know i haven't!

Spartacus. I think he is perfect (even though i don't have him), but his being able to inspire the other 2 makes him well worth his 200 points

Taelord: Man i love me some taelord. I use him more than any other figure, despite is 180 points. Pair him with even a single squad of minions, and he pays for him self!

Zettian Guards don't get used by me that often, but thats because i'm not big on soulborgs. i Love thier targeting ability though, and its even worse with DW9K backing them

[maliciouspigpig]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

a 7 defense ranged unit? Heck no! But you could have 2 swog riders for only 50 points and 3 for only 75. thats 9 deffence plus better movement and bonding with Orks. The Zettians are tough, yes, but you could have much more for around the same price.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

a 7 defense ranged unit? Heck no! But you could have 2 swog riders for only 50 points and 3 for only 75. thats 9 deffence plus better move and bonding with Orks. The Zettians are tough, yes, but you could have much more for around the same price.

oh phooey on the orcs!

[maliciouspigpig]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

a 7 defense ranged unit? Heck no! But you could have 2 swog riders for only 50 points and 3 for only 75. thats 9 deffence plus better move and bonding with Orks. The Zettians are tough, yes, but you could have much more for around the same price.

oh phooey on the orcs! Blasphemy! :shock:

[K/H_Addict]

you cant compare lowly 2/2 squads of orcs to 2/7 and 3/7 soulborgs! Although i don't use either very often, i'd take borgs over orcs. The Zg being ranged is awesome, and althogh you can get the same amount of units for less, you can only move 1 at a time, an dthe have 1 range,so if i get to the higher ground before you, you cant get to me. Range owns.

[Uprising]

I went with DW 7K. He's just to big of a gamble.

[markwars]

DW7K is the unit I avoid over all others.

[Turtleboy]

I personally love Dw7k. All of my friends get mad when i pick him. 100 points for a large mass killer, he could easly thin out a viper / marro / orc swarm army, lower life heros are dead with him. He also has the chance to blow up anyone (aside from charos). I love using this guy myself.

[reapersaurus]

Dund, Khosumet, and Zettian Guards (for that matter, ANY ranged squad) can be effective.

But DW7K is far-and-away the worst-costed unit in the game that can not practically benefit your side.
If the opponent plays properly, he will always have a melee unit that can go up and engage DW7K, thereby rendering his prime function unsuccessful.
He does not have Disengage, which would be required to be able to stop this.
He does not have range, which would be required to make someone not leave him alone.
He is too many points, therefore makes it improbable that anyone would engage him with 100+ points worth of figures, and he is likely to blow himself up and do no damage, or only 2 damage, which wouldn't justify his 100 point cost even if he started out adjacent with a couple heroes.

DW7K is (IMO) indisputably the worst unit in the game, since he cannot perform his prime function (blowing up 100+ points worth of enemy figures) if played against a competetive opponent.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

If the opponent plays properly, he will always have a melee unit that can go up and engage DW7K, thereby rendering his prime function unsuccessful.

Very good point.

[jcb231]

My thoughts....

Khosumet...pretty worthless, unless you are fielding a LOT of wolves. Then he's worthwhile as a 75 point insurance policy. The little attack boost can help out sometimes, depending on your army build.

Dund....I'm convinced folks don't know how to use him. He's not terribly flashy or exciting, but he can be a godsend against swarm armies....hit your opponent's Grut or Viper or Deathreaver card and he could be out for most of a round. He's also a decent counter against a Gladiator force...hit Spartacus and the other two are neutered for a round. A decent support figure I think.

Taelord....he is not worth picking in small armies. Most people play small armies, so therefore they dislike him. Those that play large battles see the value, I think. With castles he becomes even better. Taelord is quite good in large games or games that invlove sieges.

Gorillinators....not as bad as folks claim, they just got a little boost from Nakitas...not worth 90, but not total suckage either. They can be useful in the right situations. A decent counter to an Arrow Grut heavy force.

Zettians....not so good. I voted for them. They can be useful in certain situations. I say that a lot, because I think it's true. I don't think that any HS unit is a complete waste of plastic. Everything has it's use, no matter how rare and specific it may be.

DW7K....I have extolled his virtues before. Suffice to say he is a gamble, and could have been knocked down 10 points, but my group consistantly gets good results with him.

Obsidian Guards....they suck out of lava. Once you get past that, you can hopefully find situations they would be useful in. Defending key lava areas, rushing across lava to glyphs, patrolling your castle's lava moat, etc.....they can be quite useful in defensive lava based positions.

Spartacus....at first I balked at the 200 points....but then I realized Spartacus is like Obsidians....useless outside his zone. Picking Spartacus without Retiarius and Crixus would be idiotic....moronic....retarded even. They are a 380 point figure in my eyes. Drafted together they are formidable and worth the cost.

So bottom line, I think every figure has a use. Zettians are the worst for me, but even they get limited use in my group. Situational figures may suck in some folk's eyes, but I don't have a huge problem with the idea of a figure that gets used once in a blue moon in the spot that's just perfect.

[Rajaat the Warbringer]

Maybe I just suck with them, but the gorrilinators have let me down every time I've chosen them.

They get my vote.

[Agent Minivann]

I happen to like the zettians. They are so incredibly tough for a ranged unit.
There you have it!

I voted for Obsidians because they're terrain specific, slow, and just too many points for me to invest into taking a chance. I won't say they're overcosted, but that I have better options for 100 points.

Same for me. They're only useful as "neutral" units that attack passers by.

[Agent Minivann]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

a 7 defense ranged unit? Heck no! But you could have 2 swog riders for only 50 points and 3 for only 75. thats 9 deffence plus better movement and bonding with Orks. The Zettians are tough, yes, but you could have much more for around the same price.

If you play 2 vs 1 scenarios, you can easily see how this line of thinking can come back to haunt you. Sure you can get 2 or 3 Swog for the same, or 2 or 3 Dumutef for the same, but with the Zettian Guards you activate 2 units for one order marker. Of course that is just a head to head comparison not considering bonding with the orcs.

[gibberish_47]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

a 7 defense ranged unit? Heck no! But you could have 2 swog riders for only 50 points and 3 for only 75. thats 9 deffence plus better movement and bonding with Orks. The Zettians are tough, yes, but you could have much more for around the same price.

Following your train of thought, the Zettians with 2 figures have a combined 14 defence, which is still better then the 3 swogs at 9 defence. I'm not saying Zettians are great, just pointing out a little screwy thinking. :wink:

[maliciouspigpig]

The Zettian Guards are extremely overpriced for what you get. :?

a 7 defense ranged unit? Heck no! But you could have 2 swog riders for only 50 points and 3 for only 75. thats 9 deffence plus better movement and bonding with Orks. The Zettians are tough, yes, but you could have much more for around the same price.

Following your train of thought, the Zettians with 2 figures have a combined 14 defence, which is still better then the 3 swogs at 9 defence. I'm not saying Zettians are great, just pointing out a little screwy thinking. :wink: :duh: :duh: :duh: wow. You got me there. Must have overlooked that... Hmmm, I guess my entire arguement is for crap then :wink: all well, I still don't like the buggers, even though I see now that they were probably not the best choice for my vote in the poll. :lol:

[markwars]

How can the Obsidians be worse than any of the rest of these figures?

[thehandofzarquon]

DW7k gets my vote for most useless unit overall. Each of those other units at least has their uses, and sure that 8 auto wounds could be useful... but I'm not found of placing all my bets on the roll on such a small chance to score that many wounds. Not to mention the 15% chance to completely fail AND waste 100 points, yeez.

Honestly I think he should work like this:

Replace Self Destruct with the following two abilities:

Self-Destruct
As normal, but does 2 automatic wounds to all figures adjacent to him with no roll.

Explosive Payload:
When Deathwalker is destroyed, before removing him from play, roll the 20-sided die. On a 1-14, nothing happens. On a 15-17, deal 1 automatic wound to all adjacent figs. On a 18-19, deal 2 automatic wounds to all adjacent figs. On a 20, deal 3 automatic wounds to all adjacent figs.

For both abilties, damage is doubled against Destructable Objects, so yes, DW7k could destroy the door... if he rolled a 20 on Explosive Payload. It also makes him dangerous to draft, as in the beginning, he could really hurt your own army... Numbers could be adjusted, I just kinda pulled them off the top of my head...

Also, like I do for all 3 DW's, I would remove 2 defense and give him +2 Life... still has a Glass Jaw, but at least pinging him with weak ranged attacks won't have as big of an effect. They still have that weak point described in the bio... it just takes someone of average skill (ie: at least 3 attack, 2 with height) with good luck (roll at least 3 skulls AND DW not rolling any shields...). Fits well, I think...

How can the Obsidians be worse than any of the rest of these figures?All water battlefield :P

[Jandars_Hope]

I haven't gotten the wave five figures but from what some people say about how spartacus costs too much i'm just a little surprised noone has voted for him!
I voted obsidian guards...their 4 movement is always poor in the games i play! They are a little too sluggish!

[Hendal]

I voted for DW7000, why cause any unit where you have to kill yourself to get results is kinda like the kamakazis. yes it is a scary idea but it doesn't work that well in reality.

I also agree ifyou have success with DW7, then your enemy is not a very good player, end of story...

The obsidean gaurds work great in Lava, now if your asking are they good w/o lave, no they suck, but I would never pick them on a non lava board.

[Jandars_Hope]

Plus i find it hard to use self destruct on anymore than 3 out of a possible 5 figures without running into some sort of engagement problems!

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Dund....I'm convinced folks don't know how to use him. He's not terribly flashy or exciting, but he can be a godsend against swarm armies....hit your opponent's Grut or Viper or Deathreaver card and he could be out for most of a round. He's also a decent counter against a Gladiator force...hit Spartacus and the other two are neutered for a round. A decent support figure I think.




I really like Dund and have high hopes for him But to be surpremely effective against swarm armies, he's got to hit them early in the round - turn 1! After each turn, his power -while still potent if the roll is made - becomes less attractive to use.
I really like Dund, but those 110 points stare me down every time.

And he still doesn't beat out my obsidians vote.

[feekonea]

DW7k its pathetic how his average is about 2 damage.

[-Zim-]

Khosumet got my vote. But then again you didn't put up the Aubrien Wolves (sorry my grammar)

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I actually like DW7K, but you guys have made a great argument why he's about as useful as an ashtray in a California restaurant.

[-Zim-]

I actually like DW7K, but you guys have made a great argument why he's about as useful as an ashtray in a California restaurant.

I take it no smokeing on Cali?

[jaques]

I voted Obsidian Guards. It's not really that they're worse than some of the other units, it's just that they're so restricted. Last week was the first time I ever saw them successfully throw lava.

If they had 1 more movement, or added 1 more to range when on molten lava, I wouldn't find them so annoying -- but they just look so friggin' cool, and then if you draft them they either get stuck in one corner of the map where no one goes, or else have to venture out into non-lava territory where their specials disappear.

[countblah]

Kho-
Su-
Met.

I don't have the Obsidian guards, but you do get three of them on one activation. With Khosumet, you just get his useless self, running around the battlefield like teh suxx.

Booo on the darklord.

[netherspirit]

So much hate for the darklord...

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I actually like DW7K, but you guys have made a great argument why he's about as useful as an ashtray in a California restaurant.

I take it no smokeing on Cali?

Heh. San Diego even banned smoking in parks and beaches. I gotta agree - the beaches are not enormous ashtrays, people!

[Khanbob42]

I'd have to say Dund, with the obsidian gaurds being a close second.

I don't think i've ever seen dund played but at least the obisidium gaurds could maybe be used in a scenario with lava.

[-Zim-]

I actually like DW7K, but you guys have made a great argument why he's about as useful as an ashtray in a California restaurant.

I take it no smokeing on Cali?

Heh. San Diego even banned smoking in parks and beaches. I gotta agree - the beaches are not enormous ashtrays, people!

Wow, that's kind of crazy. But it is looking out for people, and helping the enviroment. :D

[Startoker]

Venoc Vipers should be on this list for sure. I'll take OG over Gorillanators any day on a map with some HLD (Hot Lava Death) capabilities.

[-Zim-]

Venoc Vipers should be on this list for sure. I'll take OG over Gorillanators any day on a map with some HLD (Hot Lava Death) capabilities.

Are you kidding me?

The Venoc Vipers are the shmit!

[fejkl]

Totally Dund.

First off, you have to be too close to anyone AT THE START OF your turn to Paralyze them. 5 Defense is fine and all, but you MUST get initiative, and then you MUST roll the 15 or higher. His attack stinks, and his 4 Life makes him die somewhat quickly from ranged attacks.

Blech. Dund.

[Startoker]

Defense of zero makes them nothing more than meat sheilds. Frenzy & slither don't add much to their attack of three. Without some kind of enhancement I find them pretty worthless.

[Uprising]

Defense of zero makes them nothing more than meat sheilds. Frenzy & slither don't add much to their attack of three. Without some kind of enhancement I find them pretty worthless.

Really? Use a couple of squads and pair them with the Venoc Warlord. That gives them a better Frenzy chance and 9 movement. Those suckers fly across the map. They get height advantage a lot because of their superior movement, which lets them attack with 4. I've decimated armies with these guys. I'm a big Viper fan. Yea, granted. They die real quick, but I've always seen them as a first assault type of squad. It's either go all out with them or nothing. Just my :2cents:

[thehandofzarquon]

Defense of zero makes them nothing more than meat sheilds. Frenzy & slither don't add much to their attack of three. Without some kind of enhancement I find them pretty worthless.Your defintion of meat shield is quite different than mine... I consider Krug or Brunak a meat shield... but the Vipers? No... they are shock troops. They are meant to rip apart the army as much as they can, at 40 points for a squad, they are pretty expendable.

[Fallen Templar]

Where is Sir Hawthorne I have played him about 9 times and he always seems to stab me in the back to early in the game or at the wrong time....... It's funny though when it happens

[Hendal]

Startoker, great name, you should try the snakes again, send them out first, as stated above, choose 3 squads of them, take mittens, and if you roll a few frenzy's you will understand how amazing they are. I have rolled 3 & 4 frenzies on the first turn and basically won teh game right there.

Nothing is funnier then the frenzy ( IMO )

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Startoker, great name, you should try the snakes again, send them out first, as stated above, choose 3 squads of them, take mittens, and if you roll a few frenzy's you will understand how amazing they are. I have rolled 3 & 4 frenzies on the first turn and basically won teh game right there.

Nothing is funnier then the frenzy ( IMO )


Defense of zero makes them nothing more than meat sheilds. Frenzy & slither don't add much to their attack of three. Without some kind of enhancement I find them pretty worthless.

You'd be surprised how long they can stay in the game too. Get enough of them out there to do some damage or hold a glyph until your army advances even just a little forward. Your opponent can waste attacks on the snakes or take on the approaching enemy. If he decides to go for the rest of your army, you still have your Venocs to activate if need be. They can tie up an opponent for all of a turn, but that can make all the difference. Three snakes for 40 points is a steal and get those multiple frenzies and you'll have the time of your life! With the long movement (9 with the V. Warlord!) you are almost assured the high ground in melee combat for a whopping 4 attack dice!

Defnitely try them again and in multiples. There's a reason why their 0 defense - they can be extremely potent! That's their weakness.

[DemoDougie]

Spartacus hands down!

[LoneDragon]

Dund...
But the Obsidian Guard and Khosumet are close behind.

[feekonea]

Defense of zero makes them nothing more than meat sheilds. Frenzy & slither don't add much to their attack of three. Without some kind of enhancement I find them pretty worthless.

vipers rock, they are my all time favorite units in this game. Who cares if a few of em go down? theyre like 13.3 frickin points each! Definetluy try them again man, they are awesome.

[markwars]

HEH is right. The Vipers would cost a LOT more if they didn't have a zero defense.

And if there was ever a common squad that begged for drafting multiple units this is it. Try playing 5 squads with Mittens and Raelin and see what happens. ;)

[Nwojedi]

i voted for the monkeys, cuz they serious blow ass for 90 points. 100% of everything else that costs 90 points is a better choice than gorilliators.

[nickmodaily]

I voted for the Obsidian Guards. 100% of everything else that costs 100 points is a better choice than those darn Guards. At least the Monkeys have some sort of bonding now.

I mean, ANY ranged unit can take out the Obsidian Guards. I'll bet that one squad of orc archers without any back up units could eventually take down the Obsidian Guards. Their four movement just sucks. The orcs could always stay just ahead of them.

Actually, now that I think about it, almost every one of the characters in the poll could take out the OG.

[Karkadinn]

Anyone who thinks the Obsidian Guards suck as such clearly hasn't played them on any of the official maps with lava involved. That's a ton of lava, and the guards have a huge advantage in being able to move without worry of the hot lava death. The little range boost helps them a lot too. :)
Of course, they're not very good on non-lava maps, or on poorly designed player-made maps with not enough lava or poorly positioned lava, but while these are sad things and arguably flaws in the unit, that still puts them considerably ahead of units that are useless almost all the time no matter what for their point costs, like Kamikaze DWer or Khosumet.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I still like DW7K based on his fun power - even if it's flawed. There's a heckuva a lot of excitment to be had with him - Stealth roll with 7, potentially more defense dice, bomb (one Deathwalker 7K mother to another looking at holo-albums of their young 'borgs, "They blow up so fast.")
Sure he can be tied up by a measly melee figure, but think of his possibliities with Theracus (UD..), Brunak, Saylind, Jotun's Throw!

DW7K has fun spirit of the game written all over him!

[Karkadinn]

(one Deathwalker 7K mother to another looking at holo-albums of their young 'borgs, "They blow up so fast.")

ROTFLMAO. How much money would it take for me to get you to illustrate that for the next Codex?

[LilNewbie]

LOL! Great joke, HEH!

Newb.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

(one Deathwalker 7K mother to another looking at holo-albums of their young 'borgs, "They blow up so fast.")

ROTFLMAO. How much money would it take for me to get you to illustrate that for the next Codex?

:rofl:

:idea:

[Agent Minivann]

H_E_H, that was too funny. Oh, happy birthday!

Jotun throwing DW7K, Valhalla's version of a molotov cocktail!

[Nwojedi]

wouldn't the throw kill him, without blowing him up?

[Trollsbane]

Obsidian Guards are horrid without enough lava terrain. They get my vote. Dund a close second.
OH, and here's the thing about DW7k. If you use him right, he'll never get tied up in melee. Start the game picking him and Theracus. Venoc Warlord adds 2 move. You can move 25 spaces in one turn and then detonate while your opponent has all his troops together still. 7k is so fun to use if you do it right. You just need the support. Don't march him alone down field. That's why people hate on poor ol' Taelord. They pick him with Obsidian Guards and think it'll help...

[Tiberius]

I put sparticus but that will more than likely change with additional gladiators released in the future.

[paloriam]

I vote Spartacus. I recently played a 400 pt. battle where I had Spartacus, Crixus, and Retiarus and my opponent had the ninjas, the new samarai unit (sorry I cant remember their name), wolves, the Sacred Band, and the warriors of Ashra (sp). That's 16 to 3. My guys were wiped out. If Spartacus was worth 100 points he would be useful.

[Thor]

Start the game picking him and Theracus. Venoc Warlord adds 2 move. You can move 25 spaces in one turn and then detonate while your opponent has all his troops together still.
How exactly are you coming up with 25 spaces? The most you could move DW7k with Theracus is 12 spaces, and that is if you have the Venoc Warlord in your army. That is hardly enough move to get to your opponents army and blow them all up before he has a few turns to move out. Unless the map you are playing on is EXTREMELY small it's not going to happen. Your opponent can easily engage Theracus or DW7k later on to stop them from being able to cover so much ground too.

[nickmodaily]

Start the game picking him and Theracus. Venoc Warlord adds 2 move. You can move 25 spaces in one turn and then detonate while your opponent has all his troops together still.
How exactly are you coming up with 25 spaces? The most you could move DW7k with Theracus is 12 spaces, and that is if you have the Venoc Warlord in your army. That is hardly enough move to get to your opponents army and blow them all up before he has a few turns to move out. Unless the map you are playing on is EXTREMELY small it's not going to happen. Your opponent can easily engage Theracus or DW7k later on to stop them from being able to cover so much ground too.

Maybe he's thinking in one TURN, not necessarily Order Marker. But still, you could move Theracus 9 spaces twice and then DW7K 6 spaces. But this only comes to 24 spaces.

Unless there is also a long flat road that connects the two starting zones. Then you could get 12 movement from Theracus (24) and 9 from 7000, for a total of 33.

I don't use DW7K that often, but he at least seems like a good character to keep the huge expensive figures at bay. Sure his ability is a gamble, but nobody will try taking him down with Jotun or figures that cost more than 100 points. I know I wouldn't try.

[Thor]

DW7K has fun spirit of the game written all over him!
Exactly Hex! That is why it is even harder to to pass him up during the draft, he has a really fun ability but you know he is flawed and not worth the points.

I really would love to hear how Craig or the designers of DW7k would justify his cost. To me he just seems to have a number of flaws that could have been easily fixed. They could have lowered his cost, pumped up his self-destruct damage, or increased the odds of doing the damage.
I mean you are killing your own 100 point figure and he is only going to do 2 damage to an enemy the majority of the time? Not only that, even on a 16-19 roll you arn't killing most 100 point heros, a lot of them have 5 life. You are most likely only going to hit 1 enemy since DW7k can be tied up so easily

The odds are also pretty messed up. He only can self-destruct once a game and you only have a 5% chance to do that 8 dmg. Those are some really crappy odds. In 20 games he will only perfom really well once statistically speaking. This isn't like Ne-Gok or Morsbane where you can keep trying for that lucky 20 roll all game, you are killing YOUR 100 pt figure and only get one shot. Not only that, DW7k has a 15% chance to do NO damage, leaving you 100 points down. And this is all on YOUR assault?? It's mind bogling, it really is.

Compare DW7k to similarly costed Ne-gok, Morsbane, Grimnak, or Sudema and it will really comes apparent how flawed he is. All these characters have an ability that can kill an enemy figure in one shot. Sure some have restictions, but the thing is NONE of them kill themselves in the process of using the ability. They can keep on trying to do it turn after turn. Not only that, all these figures also have several hit points so they arn't going to die to one unlucky roll like DW7k.

The more I think about it the more I think self-destruct should have been put on a multi-lifed hero instead. I mean on DW7k it really doesn't make much sense at all. You COULD get killed at any time do to an unlucky roll with only 1 life. This makes it impossible to judge when you should self0destruct or not. Do you keep fighting and take the chance of getting an unlucky roll and dying, or do you blow up and take the chance of killing yourself prematurely and doing little or no damage. Really self-destruct shoulda been put on a hero with a few life. That way you could take some damage and when you are down to 1 life run in and blow up. That would really jsutify the killing yourself, low damage on self-destruct, and bad odds. It would also make a lot more sense imo.

[Thor]

Maybe he's thinking in one TURN, not necessarily Order Marker. But still, you could move Theracus 9 spaces twice and then DW7K 6 spaces. But this only comes to 24 spaces.

I'm not following you one bit. One turn IS one order marker last I checked. Are you referring to a round, which is 3 order markers/turns? And how are you getting to move Theracus twice? He only moves once per order marker/turn. DW7k doesn't get his own movement phase on Theracus' turn either, he simply gets moved along with Theracus and placed adjacently after Theracus has moved.

I don't use DW7K that often, but he at least seems like a good character to keep the huge expensive figures at bay. Sure his ability is a gamble, but nobody will try taking him down with Jotun or figures that cost more than 100 points. I know I wouldn't try.
The ONLY large figures I would be affraid to send up against DW7k would be DW8k and DW9k. Every other figure I would feel perfectly safe attacking DW7k with. DW7k only has a 5% chance to blow up and do 8 damage to me after all. That's an extremely low chance. On the other hand he only has a 75% chance to do 2 damage or less, which isn't much at all to most large/100+ point heros. Heck, I could suffer 2 dmg from a normal attack from a number of 100 point heros. The only difference with DW7k is that he is actually doing my side a favor by eating up 100 of my opponents points and getting himself out of the fight after doing some really poor damage.

[nickmodaily]

Maybe he's thinking in one TURN, not necessarily Order Marker. But still, you could move Theracus 9 spaces twice and then DW7K 6 spaces. But this only comes to 24 spaces.

I'm not following you one bit. One turn IS one order marker last I checked. Are you referring to a round, which is 3 order markers/turns? And how are you getting to move Theracus twice? He only moves once per order marker/turn. DW7k doesn't get his own movement phase on Theracus' turn either, he simply gets moved along with Theracus and placed adjacently after Theracus has moved.

Dude, I don't get it either. Hey, Trollsbane, what the heck are you talking about?

[AmishBurrito]

Maybe he's thinking in one TURN, not necessarily Order Marker. But still, you could move Theracus 9 spaces twice and then DW7K 6 spaces. But this only comes to 24 spaces.

I'm not following you one bit. One turn IS one order marker last I checked. Are you referring to a round, which is 3 order markers/turns? And how are you getting to move Theracus twice? He only moves once per order marker/turn. DW7k doesn't get his own movement phase on Theracus' turn either, he simply gets moved along with Theracus and placed adjacently after Theracus has moved.

Dude, I don't get it either. Hey, Trollsbane, what the heck are you talking about?

He probably means round, it isnt that hard to figure out. Theracus moves for turn 1 and 2 (9 spaces each, and placing DW7k in front of him at the end, makes 9+9+1 = 19, then 6 more move from DW7k and you get 25... whats the confusion?

[Trollsbane]

Maybe he's thinking in one TURN, not necessarily Order Marker. But still, you could move Theracus 9 spaces twice and then DW7K 6 spaces. But this only comes to 24 spaces.

I'm not following you one bit. One turn IS one order marker last I checked. Are you referring to a round, which is 3 order markers/turns? And how are you getting to move Theracus twice? He only moves once per order marker/turn. DW7k doesn't get his own movement phase on Theracus' turn either, he simply gets moved along with Theracus and placed adjacently after Theracus has moved.

Dude, I don't get it either. Hey, Trollsbane, what the heck are you talking about?

He probably means round, it isnt that hard to figure out. Theracus moves for turn 1 and 2 (9 spaces each, and placing DW7k in front of him at the end, makes 9+9+1 = 19, then 6 more move from DW7k and you get 25... whats the confusion?

Sorry, I meant round. But precisely as Amish Burrito said.

[bluekitsune13]

For me it is Khosumet. For 5 more points I could get Finn, who gives all adjacent friendly figures with 1 range additional attack, and his warrior's aura. Granted he doesn't move as fast, but his defense and life are higher too. If another unit or two with unleashed fury come out in the future, then I can see his cost justified.

Dund, though I don't use him much, can be extremely effective against swarming armies like Orcs or Marro.

DW7k is a close one, but I still think that given the right situation (and a dumb opponent) you have the opportunity to destroy more than 100 points with him.

Gorillinators are better now with the Nakita agents.

Obsidian Guards probably wouldn't be drafted unless there is a lot of lava on the map. But if there is, I guarentee that they will be a first pick.

Spartacus might not be worth 200 points, but close.

Taelord is great when used on top of a high castle with the 4th Mass. Line or Snipers.

Zettian Guards are slow, I know, but that 7 defense isn't all that bad.

[Thor]

Sorry, I meant round. But precisely as Amish Burrito said.
Ahh, well then the point I made in my initial response to you still holds true. Your opponent is going to have time to move out some of his or her figures from the starting area over the course of three turns. They will be able engage Theracus and/or DW7k before you can simply head straight down the map and blow up the left over figures in their deployment area.

Anyone who thinks the Obsidian Guards suck as such clearly hasn't played them on any of the official maps with lava involved. That's a ton of lava, and the guards have a huge advantage in being able to move without worry of the hot lava death. The little range boost helps them a lot too. :)
Of course, they're not very good on non-lava maps, or on poorly designed player-made maps with not enough lava or poorly positioned lava, but while these are sad things and arguably flaws in the unit, that still puts them considerably ahead of units that are useless almost all the time no matter what for their point costs, like Kamikaze DWer or Khosumet.
My thoughts exactly. I only put the Obsidian Guards up because I consistantly here people say how over costed they are. Personally I think they are fine. On well built lava maps they are great, on maps without any lava they suck. Such is the problem with terrain reliant figures. There really isn't much you can do about it either unless you were to give them two seperate point cost, one for on lava maps and one for on maps without any lava. As is I am perfectly ok with them only being useful on lava maps. If I feel like playing the Obsidian Guards I'll create a lava heavy map and draft them up.

[Riggler]

Go to go with Spartacus at present.

Sure he's cool. Sure glads are cool. His bud's Net-boy and Cricky are extra cool. BUT... HE's 200 freaking points. His abilities help his two glad buds that's for sure.

Look at what else you can get for around his point value. For 10 more points Braxas? Nilfheim is 15 points cheaper. Major Q9 is 20 point cheaper. I'd take the Net-boy and Cricky with either the white dragon or Q9 before Spartucus if it meant I had enough points left over to field another cheap army ... and probably even if it didn't leave me enough points.

Spatucus must have a decent squad to assist his point value or else he's worth 150 max.

[Trollsbane]

Sorry, I meant round. But precisely as Amish Burrito said.
Ahh, well then the point I made in my initial response to you still holds true. Your opponent is going to have time to move out some of his or her figures from the starting area over the course of three turns. They will be able engage Theracus and/or DW7k before you can simply head straight down the map and blow up the left over figures in their deployment area.

Actually, no. I don't get your meaning. If I roll initiative, or even if I don't, 25 spaces is A LOT. I never mentioned the starting area as a target. (but yes, that is one way) Towards the start of the game, most people keep units in tight formation to move and recieve bonuses. They are not going to assume to spread thin right off the bat incase the Theracus/DW7K missile is coming. 25 spaces is no short trek. If I get them in their starting area, great. If not, another group a few spaces closer is just fine. I go where I can do the most damage. And if I can't navigate 25 spaces without becoming engaged, I am, A: an idiot. B: an idiot. And C: shouldn't try what I'm talking about.

PS. The idiot mark was not directed at you, so take no offense.

[Thor]

But you are making it sound like you can go 25 spaces while your opponent just sits there on his three turns, not moving or reacting at all. If I saw Theracus and DW7k heading towards a large lump of figures I would be sure to try and spread them out. Unless it's the starting zone I don't see more then 4 or 5 figures being in one area. And even if I couldn't spread all or most of my figures out I would still try to send at least a few low costed figures towards Theracus/DW7k to intercept him as he is coming at me.

Yes you could navigate 25 spaces, but that's in a round, not a turn. Your opponent is going to be able to react and move right after you move Theracus ahead 9 spaces each turn. It's actually not to hard to intercept Theracus this way when he is coming right at you. A squad with 5 move could fan out and engage Theracus as he was heading towards you, no problem.

[Trollsbane]

Ok, I hear what you are saying, but you have to pick your order markers before the initiative roll. My 3 turns would consist of the missile combo. Yours would be 3 of your squad. And as I said before, if you anticipate my rush and spread out, I'll compensate my attack. If you happen to be a master defender, and I can't weasel my way into a group to explode, then I would simply stall for my other forces or retreat to negate the engagement you would be going for. I'm a patient man, I can wait until a good opportunity presents itself.

[Rhydderch]

Ok, I hear what you are saying, but you have to pick your order markers before the initiative roll. My 3 turns would consist of the missile combo. Yours would be 3 of your squad. And as I said before, if you anticipate my rush and spread out, I'll compensate my attack.

While I like the idea of using Theracus to carry DW7K to the battle I think most players would anticipate the attack. Once they saw 3 of your order markers on Theracus/DW7K it would be a pretty big giveaway that at least two of your turns would be taken with one of them. The strategy is still sound. I just think it would be harder to pull off.

Also I voted for DW7K because his 1 Life, requirement for better maneuverability and low probability of doing high damage makes him unworthy of being a 100 point hero. It would not even take an engagement to stop him. Unlike the other Deathwalkers he is only medium in size. That means Deadeye Dan and Me-Burq-Sa could both reduce him to a defenseless pile of scrap metal =P

[Point Blanks]

My money, ( all two dollars and sixty three cents of it) has to go on Khosumet. Even if you draft four squads of wolves his power doesn't amount to much.

I have an idea for the zettians, but it is only a theory because I don't have Rankar's Vision yet. What if you used Theracus to carry them over to glyphs/high ground? The only problem with the zettians is their movement, and with Theracus it is fixed. With their high defense they can hold onto glyphs for a while, and if they are positioned close enough, they can get a 3/4 attack (with height advantage.) Of course, there is MBS' paralyzing stare and Deadeye Dan's rifle to contend with, but hey, the game would be boring if there was an end-all killer strategy to it, wouldn't it?

[Sweetcurse]

OK, big game saturday. I picked a "loser team" and this is the result:

I had:
Dund
Obsidian
G'nators
DW7K

I wont give play by play but this is the gist. OG slugged to the lava area and engaged the gladiatrons midway. They did OK in combat with their 4 attack and even threw lava at a blastatron destroying it. Nevertheless, they weren't all that useful even with all the lava. Range tore them up and close combat was merely passable.

DW7K managed to sneak past enemy lines and engage two marro and a blastatron. He proceded to self destruct...and rolled a 3! I lost 100 point just like that...poof! It was rather sad. So far that's 200 point down. Meanwhile, my oponent's Braxas proceded to destroy samurai from the third player taking about 5 damage in the process.

G'nators really shined witht their high movement taking the highest ground and outgunning the Marro. The Marro had better range but kept rolling only one skull so the Nators were fine. Finally Braxas had to come after the monkeys because they were tearing apart the Marro and Blastatrons. Braxas made quick work of them killing all three in one turn. I think they were awesome and Braxas really can destroy anyone like that so it wasn't the mokeys' fault. So I was left with Dund. :(

My oponent still had 2 Marro who eventually cloned back to 4, two blastatrons and Braxas. Dund rushed to the bridge and engaged Braxas... killing him..woot! The he proceded to tear up the Marro. 2 marro retreated into the water to clone. I kept trying to paralyze but it never worked. With the marro on the run Dund chewed up the balstatron tin can. Last round Dund won initiative and paralyzed the Marro, who lost all their order markers. Dund then had three free turns to kill them...and he did!

I can't believe I won that...well, Dund won that by himself pretty much. Dund is ok now in my book. He isn't spectacular or cheap, but he does not suck either. Monkeys are expensive but don't really suck.. They really need more than one defense die. OG and DW7K on the other hand...yeah they really suck. OG are too specific and their bonuses aren't all that great really. I'd pay maybe 30 points for them if at all. DW7K is totally worthless. He IS fun, but he's badly designed. To me he is proof that designers can mess up big time. People who believe otherwise simply need to play DW7K.

[Point Blanks]

Why is it that people think DW7K should only be used for self-destructing? Not a knock on you sweetcurse, but with all the ranged units your opponent had you could have used his stealh dodge ability to good effect. Or you could have engaged a unit or two to tie them up and let the G'Nators shoot em down. And even if you blew up the two marros and the blastatron, you only would have gotten 35 points worth of units. Braxas would have been a better choice to use his self-destruct power.

Btw, nice to see that Dund worked great for you. I wish I could have seen that little doggin take on a dragon like that!

[Karkadinn]

LOL, the OG are worth more than 30 points by way of their stats alone. I do agree that they're too terrain specific, however. I think the thing to do is to balance out terrain-specific powers with a single non-terrain-specific power, so that a unit can be somewhat useful on any map, and just has a bit of a boost on the right ones.

[Trollsbane]

If you dont like playing with the wolves, give Khosumet a try with the minions. They get the relentless att bonus too. Minions+Khosumut+Taelord+hieght=5 attack dice that double... I wouldn't mind a perfect roll on that dealing 10 skulls....

[countblah]

If you dont like playing with the wolves, give Khosumet a try with the minions. They get the relentless att bonus too. Minions+Khosumut+Taelord+hieght=5 attack dice that double... I wouldn't mind a perfect roll on that dealing 10 skulls....

It's just such a waste of order markers trying to get Khosumet next to those minions. That and, when he gets up there, he tends to go down real easy.

I like the synergy with the abilities, but he's just so weak-sauce.

[Point Blanks]

Perhaps if it's used inside a castle? :shrug: I don't see much use for Tae outside of one, in the first place.

[Thor]

Why is it that people think DW7K should only be used for self-destructing? Not a knock on you sweetcurse, but with all the ranged units your opponent had you could have used his stealh dodge ability to good effect. Or you could have engaged a unit or two to tie them up and let the G'Nators shoot em down. And even if you blew up the two marros and the blastatron, you only would have gotten 35 points worth of units. Braxas would have been a better choice to use his self-destruct power.
His normal attack of 3 is really crappy for a melee hero figure. There are heros in the 70-90 point range with more attack then that, and they also have good abilities and a lot more life. DW7k just can't do much dmg unless he gets a high self destruct roll. If he had a range attack to go along with his stealth dodge he could definetly hold his own and pump out some damage before self destructing.

If he had a range attack he would be great at taking out other range figures. As is though he HAS to get into melee range to do any damage himself, and that is when he loses his stealth dodge. 7 defense is quite a bit, but it is a gamble fighting with him since you could get an unlucky roll at any time and he could die. Really DW7k is just flawed all around. As I said before he cost too much all things considered. His normal atk sucks, he has the glass jaw affect in melee combat where ironically he has to be to atk, his self destruct damage and the odds to do said damage are pretty crappy, he is expensive for what he does, and above all it's hard to self-destruct and make it worth while even with a good roll. It's too hard to bomb opponents when they can see you coming.

[reapersaurus]

DW7K is totally worthless. He IS fun, but he's badly designed. To me he is proof that designers can mess up big time. People who believe otherwise simply need to play DW7K.Quoted for truth.

Well stated/proved.

[aielman]

DW definately has his uses. I grabbed Mittens and the Pegaus and blitzed with DW before my opponent could get all of his units out of the starting zone. He ended up taking out well over 100 points worth of damage. (which was important since my opponent had samarai and kravs - both of which were severly wounded after the attack)

[dragonfire]

My and my friends draft all cards for a match. Ive noticed that usually the same cards are drafted last. Who are your last picked cards? mine are



Swog rider
nerek
blade gruts
arrow gruts
ominicron snipers
shot gun sulivan
khomoset
wolves

I might be forgetting a few.
The vipers used to be there until we relized the true meaning of frenzy

[happyjosiah]

For the people that voted for Khusomet...
How many of you have more than 2 sqauds of wolves?

Wolves without Khusomet:
5% chance of 9 base attack.
5% chance of dying.
Average Attack: 3.5

Wolves with Khusomet:
0% of auto-dying
10% chance of 9 base attack
Average Attack: 4
Slight possibility of adjacency bonus.

Well worth it for large squads of wolves. Not worth it for only one or two. Simple as that.

[gryphon_gold]

DW7K is totally worthless. He IS fun, but he's badly designed. To me he is proof that designers can mess up big time. People who believe otherwise simply need to play DW7K.Quoted for truth.

Well stated/proved.

Since when is a statement proof of its own validity?

[GaryLASQ]

good poll Thor and good choices. i think you covered most of them.

i went with DW7K.

Obsidian Guards and Dund were close runner-ups for me.

if i were going to change DW7K i would double his radius. have it effect the adjacent figs to him as well as any figs adjacent to the ones that are adjacent to him.

[Point Blanks]

I can't believe that Concan isn't on this list... :roll:

[Eclipse]

I can't believe that Concan isn't on this list... :roll:

I've actually decimated with Concan. A map with decent height changes can make him a monster for 80 points. Especially with castle walls, I've been able to fly over, pick off a unit and fly back to safety over and over.

I think the real thing that makes certain units worthless is map design. It's really easy to make a range dominant map. One where a squad can take the high ground and destroy everybody else. A lot of people complain about how overpowered range is, but really, it's that the maps they play on and geared towards ranged units. It takes a little more work, but it's actually pretty easy to make a map that makes other abilities just as overpowered.

Considering I've had someone scream "Concan is so cheap it's not even funny", I've have to say he's actually pretty good.

[Point Blanks]

Concan has lackluster stats compared to other melee units, but it's offset by flying. You are spending points on a power (K&S) that you will rarely use. Even in a melee biased map, Concan will get offed by better, point for point, units.

[happyjosiah]

Exactly. Concan isn't bad, just rather vanilla. If I had 80 points and needed some flying and a tough hero, he's my guy.

[aielman]

we just played a game where someone took Concan, Fin and Thorgrim. Talk about a scary guy, once Concan was boosted he was down right evil. Luckily Braxas was able to take him out, but if he had lost, my soulborg army (glad+blast) would have been toasted by him


(just fyi, the map was a map with lots of tall spots (castle wall pieces) lots of flat land and very few in between - it was actually a fun map. With the gladiatrons charging the ground and my blastriatrons holding the air, Concan would have wiped me out)

[moorific]

I don't understand what all of you have against DW7k he's a great unit w/ stealth dodge and his explosion nobody can touch him til theyre adjacent practically, and when they get there theyll be dead from his special

[Eclipse]

Concan has lackluster stats compared to other melee units

In what way? What other melee unit gets better than 5 life/5 move/4 attack/4 defense for 80 points? Finn and Thorgrim are 80 points and lose 1 life and attack for the cost. Denrick has the same stat layout and costs 100 points. I'd say he's actually statistically pretty powerful for his point cost, he's just got really boring special abilities.

[Uprising]

I don't understand what all of you have against DW7k he's a great unit w/ stealth dodge and his explosion nobody can touch him til theyre adjacent practically, and when they get there theyll be dead from his special


Unless you roll a 1-3, in which case you have totally wasted 100 points.

[Thor]

I don't understand what all of you have against DW7k he's a great unit w/ stealth dodge and his explosion nobody can touch him til theyre adjacent practically, and when they get there theyll be dead from his special
It's nearly impossible to do the same point damage to your opponent that DW7k cost, let alone more. He cost 100 points but you will be lucky to kill 75 points in enemy figures. If you are killing your own figure off it should be for a good cause, like taking out 120+ points of enemy figures if DW7k cost 100.

He also is too easily countered to be considered much of a threat. A 50 point squad can more then tie him up and even kill him. He was just poorly designed all around imo. A good idea but poor execution. I would love to hear from Craig (or whoever made DW7k) why he is the way he is.

[Thor]

When creating this poll I tried to pick all the figures that I consistently hear people say are overcosted or under powered. Concan didn't make the list because I havn't heard hardly anyone complain about him. For 5 more points then Khosumet he has 1 more atk, 1 more def, 2 more life, can fly, and also enhances both the atk and def of sentinels and knights by 1. All that in place of the +1 roll Khosumet offers the wolves. Not only that, the figures Concan enhances are mostly for playing defense so getting him and keeping him adjacent to them is much easier. You don't have to try to get the knights adjacent to an enemy and then Concan so he can boost them like you have to do with the Anubian wolves and Khosumet. Doing that is much harder.

I also must say I am really suprised with the results of this poll so far. While Khosumet and the Obsidian Guards have pretty limited uses, I would hardly consider them as flawed as the Gorillinators, DW7k, or Spartacus (at the moment). At least on a lava heavy map or in an army full of wolves those two can hold their own quite well.

[Uprising]

When creating this poll I tried to pick all the figures that I consistently hear people say are overcosted or under powered. Concan didn't make the list because I havn't heard hardly anyone complain about him. For 5 more points then Khosumet he has 1 more atk, 1 more def, 2 more life, can fly, and also enhances both the atk and def of sentinels and knights by 1. All that in place of the +1 roll Khosumet offers the wolves. Not only that, the figures Concan enhances are mostly for playing defense so getting him and keeping him adjacent to them is much easier. You don't have to try to get the knights adjacent to an enemy and then Concan so he can boost them like you have to do with the Anubian wolves and Khosumet. Doing that is much harder.


My brother uses Concan a lot. He loves fielding him with Sentinel and or Knight armies. The guy always lasts till the end and kills his fair share. He's a good Hero. Plain and simple. Nothing flashy, but he gets the job don. Plus, I think his model is pretty cool.

[countblah]

Isn't the idea with 7000 to charge him at Charos and blow up? Since his special is not affected by defense dice or anything like that? I could be wrong, since I've never used him, but I kinda thought that using him to rush a group of knights would be a mistake.

[Eclipse]

I think the idea with DW7K is NOT to blow him up until he's nicely surrounded. Rather use him to get in, deal some melee damage and when you've got a worthwhile explosion around you use, it then. I think in order to be worth his points he needs to take out some units first with is 3 attack and 7 defense. I think the real problem is that 7 defense with 1 life makes doing this a little more reliant on the blue dice than most people would like, so they just blow him up at the first opportunity.

[Aldin]

Spartacus is one that I think can be extraordinary...








...in a 800+ point army.

The problem isn't the cost, it's the cost's percentage of total points, IMO.

~Aldin

[Agent Minivann]

Something I found interesting while looking at the Heroscape Room pictures from the front page article is the number of figures. Not just that there's a crap load of figures, but there are fewer of some than others. The two that really stuck out to me were Su Bak Na and Dund. It looked like there were three Dund sitting on the shelf very close to a single Su Bak Na.

That has me wondering. Does this mean something about Dund? Are we missing something, or does it have to do with future units that make him more appealing? I can understand only one Su Bak Na, but the three Dund figs really raised my eyebrows.

[Thor]

Isn't the idea with 7000 to charge him at Charos and blow up? Since his special is not affected by defense dice or anything like that? I could be wrong, since I've never used him, but I kinda thought that using him to rush a group of knights would be a mistake.
Unless DW7k gets a 20, which is only a 5% chance, he isn't going to do his worth in damage to Charos. Each of Charos life points are worth roughly 23 points (210/9 = 23.3 repeating). On a 4 damage explosion he is only doing 93 points of damage to Charos. On a 3 damage explosion he is only doing 70 points worth of damage. What this means is DW7k has a 20% chance to do just under his point value in damage, a 60% chance to do about 2/3 his point value in damage, and a 15% chance to make you waste 100 points. Not very good odds if you ask me, especially considering you only get one chance at it.

I think the idea with DW7K is NOT to blow him up until he's nicely surrounded. Rather use him to get in, deal some melee damage and when you've got a worthwhile explosion around you use, it then. I think in order to be worth his points he needs to take out some units first with is 3 attack and 7 defense. I think the real problem is that 7 defense with 1 life makes doing this a little more reliant on the blue dice than most people would like, so they just blow him up at the first opportunity.
His 3 attack is laughable. Some 13 point squad figures (Legionnaires, Band) have the same attack, except you get to attack with 4 of them per turn. For only 50 points they are much more effective at dealing out damage. People also arn't going to just rush their high costed squad or hero figures adjacent to DW7k. A smart player will tie DW7k up with a few low costed units, like the Legionnairs, and keep hacknig away at him till they get a lucky roll. DW7k won't be killing them off anytime soon and he can't disengane without dying, therefore he is stuck in combat until he either kills all the figures or they kill him. Considering you can have a whole group of Legionnairs swarm him for half the price he will msot likely die before he kills 2 full groups of Legionnaires off.

[Eclipse]

Very true, but most heroes seem to fail to prove their worth against half the points worth of common squads. It tends to be a fairly common problem in the game. I'm hoping the flagbearers will help the situation a bit. As for DW7K, he really needs to get next to a couple of enemy heroes to prove his worth. It's just a fairly difficult situation to create when faced with the army setups most people currently use.

I think DW7K is actually properly priced and designed. I think he's just severely metagame challenged.

[Slade]

even his own mother doesn't like the darklord...

[Drumline3469]

They are all so good I don't know who to choose. The only one even SLIGHTLY useless in there is Khosumet. Dund and DW7K can change your opponents strategy if you even field them. DW7K is almost invaluable with the castle. Gnators move fast and tough can be a pain in the anus... espescially if you're fighting Deathreavers. The Zettians can do ALOT of damage if you get them up high and shoot the same person. They're super good with DW9K behind em. Odsidians are pretty decent and are pretty dang good in lava. Spartacus is AMAZING!!! That's all I can say about him. And Taelord?! Don't even get me started. He is one of my favorites next to Spartacus! This thread seems jenk to me...

[Su-Bak-Na]

They are all so good I don't know who to choose. The only one even SLIGHTLY useless in there is Khosumet. Dund and DW7K can change your opponents strategy if you even field them. DW7K is almost invaluable with the castle. Gnators move fast and tough can be a pain in the anus... espescially if you're fighting Deathreavers. The Zettians can do ALOT of damage if you get them up high and shoot the same person. They're super good with DW9K behind em. Odsidians are pretty decent and are pretty dang good in lava. Spartacus is AMAZING!!! That's all I can say about him. And Taelord?! Don't even get me started. He is one of my favorites next to Spartacus! This thread seems jenk to me...

I feel the same way, although I play large point games. Wich means choosing figures like Tealord and Sparticus, not that big of a deel. Every piece in this poll is worth their point value. I've felt Khosumets wrath belive it or not. :wink:

[happyjosiah]

For the people that voted for Khusomet...
How many of you have more than 2 sqauds of wolves?

Wolves without Khusomet:
5% chance of 9 base attack.
5% chance of dying.
Average Attack: 3.5

Wolves with Khusomet:
0% of auto-dying
10% chance of 9 base attack
Average Attack: 4
Slight possibility of adjacency bonus.

Well worth it for large squads of wolves. Not worth it for only one or two. Simple as that.

Arrogant self quoting here, but I would like to hear a response to this...

[Thor]

They are all so good I don't know who to choose. The only one even SLIGHTLY useless in there is Khosumet. Dund and DW7K can change your opponents strategy if you even field them. DW7K is almost invaluable with the castle. Gnators move fast and tough can be a pain in the anus... espescially if you're fighting Deathreavers. The Zettians can do ALOT of damage if you get them up high and shoot the same person. They're super good with DW9K behind em. Odsidians are pretty decent and are pretty dang good in lava. Spartacus is AMAZING!!! That's all I can say about him. And Taelord?! Don't even get me started. He is one of my favorites next to Spartacus! This thread seems jenk to me...
Since all the figures in this thread are so fabulous I would LOVE to have a battle against you where you use them and I use other figures which most people find much more useful. I can garuntee you will lose. The point of this thread isn't to say these figures flat out suck all the time. Figures can all be worth while under the right conditions such as army composition and/or on the right map. The figures listed, however, are choices very few people pick ever because they have such limited uses or there are much better figure choices available in the game.

Khosumet worth his 75 point value? Maybe in a game where you are fielding an all wolf army that consist of 5 Anubian Wolf squads. He wouldn't be worth it when you are only fielding one squad of wolves though, he can be killed easily and his benefits don't out weigh drafting another sqaud of wolves in his place, or some other hero/squad. And lets not forget most gamers arn't going to have several squads of wolves at their disposal to draft with Khosumet. Most will have 1, maybe 2. No, the point of this thread isn't to say all the figures are horrible and never worth drafting, but instead to see which figures people view to be the poorest choices in the HeroScape roster.

[Snotwalker 8000]

I have to come to DW7K's defense here.

As someone else pointed out, DW7K's real worth isn't in "how much he can blow up". It's in how much his mere presence on the field of battle will alter your opponent's strategy/tactics.

If I have an expensive hero on the board, or a swarm of commons, and I seen DW7K in my opponent's army, I will be more conservative in my manuvering. It makes the opponent think twice before charging in with Jotun or Nilf or other high-cost figs. Sure, the odds are against the self-destruct actually "destructing" anything, but the chance still exists! Kinda like with NGS. Mindshackle is a long shot, but it's scary enough to want you to keep your distance.

however, I will admit that I wish he cost 80 points instead of 100. 100 is a bit steep for him.

Oh, and by the way, the most useless unit is the Obsidian Guard. When we play series of games where we have to keep drafting new units until they've all been drafted at least once, they are ALWAYS the last pick.

Zettians aint too bad,... it just depends on the luck of the roll....I've seen them both roll over and die without a fight, and also dominate unmercifiully.

Khosumet is great with 2+squads of wolves.... HJ is right on about his bonus in attacking power nicely justifying his cost.

Tae is awesome. Used with Snipers, Minions, or 4th Mass, he rocks!

Dund isn't great, but he's fun. He's a solid figure, attack and defense-wise, even if his special never works. And he's large, which definitely helps nowadays.

Gorillinators have been pretty weak in our games, but when used with their newest and best buddies, the Nakita Agents, they might not stink so much anymore.

Spartacus I don't have... Until we get gladiator squads, I have little interest in buying the gladiator heros. I'm big on themed armies and synergy... And without Spartacus' ability pumping up squads of gladiators, I don't see him justifying 200pts.... but since I don't yet have Sparty, I can't REALLY say that he's the worst... Just an educated assumption.

But honestly, I enjoy trying to use all of the units now and again, even some of the above mentioned "last of the litter" units... except for the OG.... they just stink on ice.

[Fallen Templar]

Hawthorne=worthless

[K/H_Addict]

They are all so good I don't know who to choose. The only one even SLIGHTLY useless in there is Khosumet. Dund and DW7K can change your opponents strategy if you even field them. DW7K is almost invaluable with the castle. Gnators move fast and tough can be a pain in the anus... espescially if you're fighting Deathreavers. The Zettians can do ALOT of damage if you get them up high and shoot the same person. They're super good with DW9K behind em. Odsidians are pretty decent and are pretty dang good in lava. Spartacus is AMAZING!!! That's all I can say about him. And Taelord?! Don't even get me started. He is one of my favorites next to Spartacus! This thread seems jenk to me...
Since all the figures in this thread are so fabulous I would LOVE to have a battle against you where you use them and I use other figures which most people find much more useful. I can garuntee you will lose. The point of this thread isn't to say these figures flat out suck all the time. Figures can all be worth while under the right conditions such as army composition and/or on the right map. The figures listed, however, are choices very few people pick ever because they have such limited uses or there are much better figure choices available in the game.

Khosumet worth his 75 point value? Maybe in a game where you are fielding an all wolf army that consist of 5 Anubian Wolf squads. He wouldn't be worth it when you are only fielding one squad of wolves though, he can be killed easily and his benefits don't out weigh drafting another sqaud of wolves in his place, or some other hero/squad. And lets not forget most gamers arn't going to have several squads of wolves at their disposal to draft with Khosumet. Most will have 1, maybe 2. No, the point of this thread isn't to say all the figures are horrible and never worth drafting, but instead to see which figures people view to be the poorest choices in the HeroScape roster.


So, you are getting an attitude at someone for expressing their opinion in an opinionated thread? I believe this thread is called "MOst worthless squad/hero Award." Drumline was simply pointing out that no unit is worthless, as the thread title suggests. I'll bet that you would filed an army with an immense amount of synergy, which these units have absolutely none of, so OF COURSE YOU WOULD WIN! Maybe you should let him pick your army and see who is better.

[gryphon_gold]

For the people that voted for Khusomet...
How many of you have more than 2 sqauds of wolves?

Wolves without Khusomet:
5% chance of 9 base attack.
5% chance of dying.
Average Attack: 3.5

Wolves with Khusomet:
0% of auto-dying
10% chance of 9 base attack
Average Attack: 4
Slight possibility of adjacency bonus.

Well worth it for large squads of wolves. Not worth it for only one or two. Simple as that.

Arrogant self quoting here, but I would like to hear a response to this...

I bought five packs of wolves and minute-men because I wanted to test the notion that the 4th line were a god-army. I've never bothered to use the wolves, but I'm interested in trying them now.

I'm curious, how do you go about deciding that the cut-off point, for whether or Khosument is useful, is between two and three sets of wolves?

[Snotwalker 8000]

gryphon_gold

I would say that the cutoff point for Khosumet justifying or not justifying his cost/benefit ratio with the wolves is 2 squads. Never use him with just one squad.

I'm sure there are others who might argue 3+ or even 4+ squads, but everytime I've played the wolves, I typically take 2 squads with Khosumet, and his extra % boost to higher attack rolls has payed off every time!

Needless to say, the more wolf squads you take, the greater Khosumet's bonus will apply... but as long as you have at a minimum 2 squads, it pays to draft him.... having those higher attack rolls when engaged with the enemy due to Khosumet's %bonus is worth more than 3 more wolves in the reserve ranks.

[Thor]

So, you are getting an attitude at someone for expressing their opinion in an opinionated thread? I believe this thread is called "MOst worthless squad/hero Award." Drumline was simply pointing out that no unit is worthless, as the thread title suggests. I'll bet that you would filed an army with an immense amount of synergy, which these units have absolutely none of, so OF COURSE YOU WOULD WIN! Maybe you should let him pick your army and see who is better.
I was coping an attitude because he made the comment "this thread seems jenk to me" which we all could have done without. If he would have expressed his opinions and left it at that I would have been fine, but when someone makes negative comments like that I get a little hostile. Not only that, the sheer amount of complaints I hear and read all the time regarding a number of the figures listed should be proof enough that there are some problems with them. For him to dismiss all these complaints by countless members and say this thread is worthless was far more arrogant than anything I said.

As someone else pointed out, DW7K's real worth isn't in "how much he can blow up". It's in how much his mere presence on the field of battle will alter your opponent's strategy/tactics.

If I have an expensive hero on the board, or a swarm of commons, and I seen DW7K in my opponent's army, I will be more conservative in my manuvering. It makes the opponent think twice before charging in with Jotun or Nilf or other high-cost figs. Sure, the odds are against the self-destruct actually "destructing" anything, but the chance still exists! Kinda like with NGS. Mindshackle is a long shot, but it's scary enough to want you to keep your distance.

however, I will admit that I wish he cost 80 points instead of 100. 100 is a bit steep for him.
You see, that is where you and I differ I guess. I know the chances for him to do his worth against even an expensive hero are low, so I welcome the explosion. Why would you be anymore affraid of DW7k rolling a 20 on self destruct then you would be of drafting him and rolling a 0 defense and die to a Deathreaver or Arrow Grut attack. The game is all about luck of the roll and anything can happen. The only thing you can do is try to put the odds in your favor. Unfortunately with DW7k it's nearly impossible to get the odds in your favor ever. If he were 80 points then maybe, or if he had disengage so he could freely roam without getting tied up it would have helped him so much.

[aielman]

My favorite use for DW7k is to draft him when my opponent starts to go range heavy. That stealth dodge can be vicious if you dont have a solid melee character to couter.

[countblah]

In discussing the characters who everyone says is absolute junk, have you ever thought about this:

For a character that is garbage, and not worth his points, try flipping the card over to the basic side, and using those stats with the special abilities on the master side. Even Taelord ain't lousy no more!

[LilNewbie]

In discussing the characters who everyone says is absolute junk, have you ever thought about this:

For a character that is garbage, and not worth his points, try flipping the card over to the basic side, and using those stats with the special abilities on the master side. Even Taelord ain't lousy no more!

LOL! And the DWs Life amount doesn't change. :D

Newb.

[countblah]

The life amount doesn't change, but some of their stats improve massively. I don't mind some of that!

[Country_Dragon]

Gorillanators but I am a bit pedjudice against Cyber monkeys

[Llamaman]

yeah, ever looked at mimrings basic side? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Sapper]

Dund-The biggest problem with him is you have to roll for the stare before you move. This really handicaps him in my book.

DW7k-The "idea" of this guy is what I really love about him. Stealth Dodge alone almost makes him worth drafting. Now if you could blow him up after a succesful attack was made on him, he would be great.

Gorilla's-Range 6 and move 7. What's not to like?

Khosumet-I agree with some of the others, do not draft unless you plan on fielding at least 2 squads of wolves. Even then he just sits in the deployment zone until he is the last figure.

Obsidian Guards- Can really only be succesful on a map with lava.

Spartacus-He is the new Taelord.

Taelord-Never used him.

Zettians- Nice, tough ranged unit. If there were three in a squad more people would use them. I like them as is, I just don't use them all that much.

Overall I chose Dund, but that was before I read the whole thread. Which I guess was good, that way I was not influenced by some of the great points presented here.

[Oogie_Da_Bruce]

I voted Khosumet with Dund a close second.

So what if you lose a wolf on a bad d20 roll. It's not like a backstab or anything and no bonding sucks.

as for Dund.... stare BEFORE moving gets the big :down:

[dnutt99]

When DW7K detonates and wounds are given, are those wounds unblockable wounds?

I assume so, but not playing him ever, (yet), I have to ask. :D

[JotaTay]

Khosumet used to be worse but I think hes better now with the Utgar flagbearer he can be moved along with another Utgar hero. He is still pretty bad but at least you won't ever have to kill your own wolf.

[Sapper]

Khosumet used to be worse but I think hes better now with the Utgar flagbearer he can be moved along with another Utgar hero. He is still pretty bad but at least you won't ever have to kill your own wolf. Great point about the flagbearer. So now Khosumet just jumped from 1 to 2 on a scale of 1-10.

[Thor]

When DW7K detonates and wounds are given, are those wounds unblockable wounds?

I assume so, but not playing him ever, (yet), I have to ask. :D
Yes, the wounds are unblockable. Considering his lousy odds of doing any decent damage they better be unblockable, you are killing your own 100 pt figure after all.

[Menchy]

i voted for taelord because he is not even close to being worth 100 more points than raelin. She does the exact same thing, except for defence instead of attack.

[imppious]

When DW7K detonates and wounds are given, are those wounds unblockable wounds?

I assume so, but not playing him ever, (yet), I have to ask. :D
Yes, the wounds are unblockable. Considering his lousy odds of doing any decent damage they better be unblockable, you are killing your own 100 pt figure after all.

I find it often dosn't matter that you get point value from a unit, as long as you get strategic value. For example I recently had to send braxas against the kravs who were on a castle tower 21 spaces high. Poor rolls for me meant she only killed one before she died. It was totaly worth it though because she opened a space on the castle wall which my sarge was able to grapple up to soon after. Sarge then ran riot among the ranged units on the wall and even made it down to open the gate.
So 210 points sacraficed for 30 was a poor return on point value but it was essential to victory.
I usually try to think of DW7k in this context. As long as he can harm what I need him to harm, he is not so bad.
Also his attck of 3 is quite decent against low defense range squads. Combined with decent movement and stealth dodge he can run up and bash those pesky shooters quite well.
Having said that we recently started using a custom rule with him where his bomb goes off on his death. That way he can fight until he dies and then has a chance at retribution, this makes him much better.

[Junge Roman]

DW7000 is the antiDeathwalker.

[riledguy]

I had to give my vote to Spartacus. I played a game with him and his two gladiator colleges last night and can safely say for me it is the worst 380 points you can spend in the game.

I try every figure and I had not used him so I decided this game I would give him a shot. He did not seem great but I often find some characters that on paper don't seem great seem to do a great job in play. The 4th Mass line is an example of one that does not seem special but always nets big results for me.

Anyhoo..

We were playing with 450 point armies and I chose Deadeye Dan as my final figure to give me a pretty good range attack since I had the melee covered with the gladiators. One thing I noticed and had read but did not sink in until in the game was that for Spartacus's ability to work all markers had to be on the gladiators. This is not cool... not cool at all. So that meant no evenly distributing orders for my range and melee. It would be all melee or else no benifit.

Placing some orders on the range then waiting untill they closed the gap was not going to work to well here. Seeing the low defence on the two other gladiators I was not willing to risk it.

Needless to say a large character with high defence was sent out after my crew first. Well I see that this net power will no longer work at all. There goes the special power text on one gladiator.

The attack begins

They were all wiped pretty fast and despite having large attacks 6 dice they could not land much of anything against the 7 defence dice. I know it should have but it just didn't.

I was trying to think of how I could have spent 380 points and and had a weaker team and I just couldn't. I don't think it is possible. Also the lynchpin Spartacus at 200 points does not kill things fast enough to keep himself alive it is not hard to get him out of a fight. I would say one of the easiest 200 point range figures to kill.

[riledguy]

I happen to like the zettians. They are so incredibly tough for a ranged unit.
DW7k completely blows. I may never USE Dund, but at least I could see him somehow bring useful. All the others get usage.
DW7K. Blows.

Late I know.. but for fun save Dund for the end when the opponent has to drop all his markers on a single figure. Dund gets a lot better then.

[Soul Shackle]

i voted for taelord because he is not even close to being worth 100 more points than raelin. She does the exact same thing, except for defence instead of attack.

Boosting ranged attacks in nothing to scoff at. Raelin is a good pick for any army, Taelord is a good pick in few armies, but can be a good pick nonetheless. Just ask the Omnicrons. ;)

[Bloody the Marro Stinger]

Jesus, this thread is old. Was it really necessary to bump?
Out of this list, I'd say the Zettians and Deathwalker 7000.

[heroscaper314]

The Zettians actually very nearly won me a game at Gencon last year. I'd say Khosumet, although with the wolves coming out in Wave 8, he won't be the most useless one on this list for long.

[Thorgrim]

Always stick your Zettians on a hill. Tealord is awesome. I don't understand how people can not like a cheerleader like him. So many figures can be affected by him. Deathwalker should never be used. enough said. im all about defence, but whenever i roll defence for him, even if i have Thorgrim and Railyn #1 near by, he just seems to like to die.

[tdavid6]

I think Q9 should be added to this poll.

[Einar's puppy]

I think Q9 should be added to this poll.
This poll though now dead)is for the worst squads/ heros. Q9 is really good in tournament setting. Low deffence squads are pwned by him.